A counterblast to M. Hornes vayne blaste against M. Fekenham Wherein is set forthe: a ful reply to M. Hornes Answer, and to euery part therof made, against the declaration of my L. Abbat of Westminster, M. Fekenham, touching, the Othe of the Supremacy. By perusing vvhereof shall appeare, besides the holy Scriptures, as it vvere a chronicle of the continual practise of Christes Churche in al ages and countries, fro[m] the time of Constantin the Great, vntil our daies: prouing the popes and bishops supremacy in ecclesiastical causes: and disprouing the princes supremacy in the same causes. By Thomas Stapleton student in diuinitie.

The .34. Chapter: Of Richarde the seconde, Kinge of Englande.

Stapleton.

HEre lo, M. Horn at lēgth strayneth vs very sore. For nowe all suytes to Rome are quite cut of. Neither can the Pope send any excommunication into En∣glande. What may we then say to helpe our selues? Shall I lette the matter goe, and let yt shifte for yt selfe as yt may, and reason againste the man and not the matter, and tel M. Horne, least he waxe to proude and want on, for this great triumphaunte and victoriouse argumēte, that yf a man that is excommunicated, is (as he expoundeth yt) a wycked man, and a enemie of religion, that him self and his fellowes had neade to loke wel abowt them, beinge accursed, not only by many Popes (which now M. Horne careth not a rushe for) but by many national and general coūcelles also? Or shal I tel him that, suyte to Rome for excommunicatiō, is but one braunche or arme of the Popes authority? And that the residewe of his authority stoode in strengthe and force styll? And so that he proueth not the lyke regimente that nowe is, in the which, the whole papal authoritye is vtterly bannished? Or shall I say, that God punished the

kinge for his attempte and as he toke away the Popes au∣thority: so he loste all his owne very shortly after: and loste bothe crowne and kingdome miserably? Or shall I say this lawe died with the kinge, and was neuer after vntill our dayes put in vre? Or shall I say that, thowghe all the Popes authoritie were bannished by this statute out of England, M. Hornes newe supreamacy will not therof followe, but that the supreamacy in matters ecclesiasticall, remayned in the Bishoppes, especially in Thomas Arondell Archbi∣shop of Canterbury, who kepte coūcelles and synodes: and determined matters ecclesiasticall without the kinges cō∣sente therunto, by whose prouincial constitution Mayster Horne and his fellowes are declared excommunicate par∣sons and heretikes for the hereticall doctrine, that he and they maynteyne contrarie to the catholike faith? Or shall I yet ones againe appeale not to Rome, (leaste M. Horne charge me with a terrible premunire) but euē to some do∣mesticall Iudge, and I greatly passe not, yf yt be to a quest, of lawyers of his best frendes, to be tried by them, yf they can fynde any suche lawe in the Statutes of oure Realme? Againe shall I appeale to an other Queste, euen of his owne nighe neighbours in Winchester schole, to be tried by them, yf I falsly accuse M. Horne, of a moste vntruth and false translation? Or shal I appeale to his deare frendes the Logitioners at Oxford or Cambridge, and be tried by them, yf I say not true, saying now and auouching to M. Hornes owne face, that his owne allegation out of Polidore, directly proueth the Popes Primacie, and es∣pecially the customable and ordinarye suytes to Rome? I will then holde my self at this stay: and I will ioyne with him for these three poyntes.

First then I auouche, that there is no suche presidente to be shewed among the statutes of our realme: and further that neuer any suche was made in the tyme of this kinge. Secondly I affirme, that M. Horne hathe either of deape and grosse ignorance, or of cankered malice, maymed or mangled his authours narration, and depraued and peruer∣ted his manifeste meaning, by a false and counterfeite tran∣slation. The wordes of Polidore are these. Concilium habi∣tum est ad Westmonasterium: eo in Concilio regi pariter at{que} principibus visum est è republica sua Anglicana fore, si pars aliqua imperij Romani Pontificis Oceano terminaretur, quod multi quotidie vexarentur ob causas quas Romae non facilè co∣gnosci posse putabant. Quapropter sancitum est, vt nulli mor∣talium deinceps liceret pro quauis causa agere apud Romanum Pontificem, vt quispiam in Anglia eius authoritate, impius religionis{que} hostis publicè declararetur, hoc est, excommunica∣retur, quemadmodum vulgò dicitur: néue exequi tale manda∣tum, si quod ab illo haberet. Sincerely translated thus they stande. A Councel (sayeth he) was called at Westmynster, wherin yt was thowght good to the king and his Princes, for theire common weale in Englande, yf a parte of the Popes authority were bounded within the lymytes of the Occean sea: because many were dayly troubled and vexed for causes, which they thowght, coulde not be well hearde at Rome. Wherfore yt was decreed, that yt should be lawfull for no man to sue to the Pope for euery cause, to haue any man in Englande by his authority publikely pronoun∣ced a wicked man and an enemie of religion: that is (as the people commonly terme yt) to be excommunicated. And that, if any man haue any suche commaundement, he doe not exequute yt.

The statute then doth not embarre, as ye most shameful∣ly pretend, all suites to Rome, nor all excommunications, from the Pope: but only that it should not be lawfull to sue to Rome, and procure excommunications, indifferently as wel in temporal as in spiritual matters: as it seemeth many did then. And this doth nothing acrase the Popes ordina∣rie authoritie. Now that this is the meaning, your Authour him selfe sufficiently declareth. First when he speaketh but of a parte of the Popes authoritie: then when he sheweth that men sued to Rome for suche causes, as were thought could not be heard there: which must nedes be temporall causes. And therefore ye ouerhipped one whole line and more, in your translation, thinking by this sleight so craftely to conueie into your theeuish Cacus denne, this sentence, that no man should espie you. And for this purpose where your Authour writeth, pro quauis causa agere, that is, to sue for euery cause, Ye translate, to trie any cause. As though it were al one to say. I forbidde you to sue to Rome for eue∣ry cause, and to saie: I forbidde you to sue to Rome for any cause. And as though your Authour Polidore had writē: pro quacunque causa agere, to trie any cause at al. The sta∣tute therefore doth not cut of al suites, but some suites: that is, for suche matters as were temporal, or thought so to be. Wherevppō it wil followe, that for all spiritual matters the Popes iurisdiction remained vntouched, and nothing blemi∣shed. For these woordes of the statute, that men shoulde not sue in euerie cause to Rome, imploye some causes, for the whiche they might sue to Rome. And so for all your gaie Grammar and ruffling Rhetorique, the Popes autho∣ritie is confirmed by this statute, whiche ye bring againste it. And this King Richard confirmed it, and was redie to main∣teine

it not by words only, but by the sworde also. And therefore caused to be gathered fiftene thousand fotemen, and two thousand horsemen, and sent them out of the real∣me to defende Pope Vrbane against his ennemie and Anti∣pope Clement. You on the other side, in this your victo∣riouse booke, haue brought a iolie sorte of souldiers to the field, to fight against the Pope, but when all is well seene and examined, ye doe nothing but muster lies together a∣gainst the Pope, as he did men, to fight for the Pope. A farre of, and vppon the sodaine, an vnskilfull man would thinke, ye had a iolie and a well sette armie: but lette him come nigh and make a good view, and then he shal finde nothing but a sorte of scar crowes pricked vppe in mans apparell.

M. Horne The .140. Diuision. pag. 13. a.

The Churche of Rome at this time vvas marueilouslie torne in sunder vvith an horrible Schisme, vvhiche continued about fortie yeares, hauing at ones three heades, calling them selues Popes, euerie one of them in moste despitefull vvise, calling the other Antichriste, Schismatique, Heretique, tyraunt, thiefe, traitour, the sonne of perdition, sovver of Cockle, the child of Beliall, &c. Diuerse learned men of that time inueighed againste them all three, as Henricus de Hassia, Ioan. Gerson, Theodorych Ny∣em, Secretarie before this, to Pope Boniface, vvho proueth at lardge by (.456.) good reasons, by the vvoorde of God, and by the Popes Decrees, that the refourmation of these horrible disorders in the Chuche, belong to the Emperour, and the Secular Princes. Sigismunde the noble Emperour, vn∣derstanding his duetie herein, amongest other his notable Actes, called a Councell togeather at Constantia, and brought againe to vni∣tie the Churche deuided in three partes: whiche Councell (saithe Nauclerus) beganne by the Emperours cōmaundemente and industrye, in the yeare.1414. To the vvhiche Councel came Pope Iohn before thēmperors cōming, thinking to haue (457) outfaced the Councell vvith his pretensed authoritie, till the Emperoure came: vvho

geauing to all men in the Councel free libertie to speake their mindes, a great companie of horrible vices, were laied straight way to his chardge To the vvhich vvhen he vvas not able to ansvvere he vvas (.458.) deposed, and the other tvvo Popes also, and an other (459) chosen chieflie by the Emperon••s meanes, called Martin the fifte. After these things finished, they entred into communication of a reformati∣on bothe of the Clergie and the Laitie, to vvhiche purpose the Emperour had deuised a booke of Constitutions, and also vvilled certaine learned Fathers there, but specially the Bisshoppe of Camera, a Cardinall there presente, to deuise vvhat faultes they could finde, and hovve they shoulde be ••edressed, not sparing any degree, neyther of the Prelates, nor of the Princes them¦selues. VVhiche the Bisshoppe did, and compiled a little booke or Libell entituled: A Libell for reformation of the Churche gathered togeather by Peter de Aliaco, &c. And offered to the Chur∣che rulers, gathered togeather in Constaunce Councel, by the commaundemente of the Emperoure Sigismunde. & cet. In this Libell of refourmation, after he hathe touched the notable enormi∣ties in the Pope, in the Courte of Rome, in the Cardinalles, in the Prelates, in Religious personnes, and in Priestes: in exactions, in Canons, and De∣cretalles, in collations of benefices, in fastings, in the Diuine Seruice, in Pi∣ctures, in making festiuall daies, in making Sainctes, in reading theyr le∣gendes in the Churche, in hallovving Temples, in vvoorshipping Reli∣ques, in calling Councelles, in making Relligious souldiours, in refourming Vniuersities, in studying liberal Sciences, and knovvledge of the tongues, in repairing Libraries, and in promoting the learned: After all these thinges, being (.460.) Ecclesiasticall matters or causes, he concludeth vvith the dueties of Princes for the looking to the reformation of these matters, or any other that needeth amendement. The sixth (saieth he) and the last consideration shall be of the refourminge of the state of the Laie Christians, and chieflie the Princes, of whose manners dependeth the behauiour of the people, & cet. Let them see also, that they repell all euill customes contrarie to the lawe of God, and the lawe of man in their subiectes, by the Coun∣cell of Diuines and other wise men. Also lette them see, that they pul vppe by the rootes, and destroy more diligently then

they haue done, Magicall Artes and other superstitions con∣demned by the lawe of God, and all errours and heresies con∣trarie to the Faith. Item that they watche and care earnestly for the exalting of the Faith, and the honour of Goddes ser∣uice, and the refourming of the Churche, that they labour and trauaile diligently for the reformation of althose things which are mentioned afore, or here folowing, or anye other thinges profitable, & caet. VVhen this booke vvas thus compiled, it was of∣fered vppe to the Councel (saith Orthvviuus) that the most Chri∣stian Emperour Sigismunde had called togeather, not so much for the agreemente of the Churche, as for hope of a generall reformation of their manners: hoping verelye, that the Pre∣lates woulde put to their helping handes, but the Romaine craft beguiling the Germaine simplicitie: the new made pope featly flouted the vvell meaning Emperoure, saying that he vvoulde thinke on this matter at laisure, & caet. Thus vvas Sigismunde the Emperour misused, vvhiche othervvise might seeme to haue bene borne to haue restored Christianitie to the vvorlde againe. The frustrating of this refourmation, vvas on the o∣ther side, no lesse grieuouse vnto the Frenche Kinge, that bothe before the time of the Councell, and in the Councell vvhile, had greatly trauailed in taking avvay the Popes ex••ctions, and other Ecclesiasticall abuses, vvher∣vvith his Realme vvas vvonderfully oppressed: as appeareth in the Ora∣tion that the Frenche Kings Embassadours made in this Councell, vvritten by Nicol. de Clemangijs, and set forth in Othvvynus Gratius far∣dell of notable things.

After this Councell, vvas an other holden at Basil, vvhither came the Princes of Spaine, Fraunce, Hungary, and Germany: vvhiche dooinges of the Princes made pope Eugenius so to feare, that he (.461.) thought to translat the Coūcel to Bononia. But the Emperour and other princes, and the prelates whiche vvere at Basill, not onlye not obeyed him, but tvvise or thrise admonished him to come thither. This ••••pe vvas in this Coūcel (.462.) deposed in the .34. sessiō. Of this Coūcel, the Em∣perour Sigismōde vvas the chiefe, and protector, and in his absence appointed the Duke of Bauaria in his roome. He caused the Bohemes to come to this

Councell. And whan he hearde of those matters in Religion, which were generally agreed vppon, he allowed them, and commaunded them to be obserued.

Notes

• Vide. c. Itē quia, &c. Nullus de Haeretic. in constit. prouīcial.
• An appea¦le against M. Horne to a quest of tēpo∣ral la∣vvyers.
• An other to a quest of gram¦marians.
• The .3. to queste of logi∣tioners.
• Poli. li. 20
• These vvordes, because, &c.

  M. Horne quite left out.
• Pro qua∣uis causa.
• M. H••rne omitteth a vvhole line that openeth the whol matter againste him.
• King Ri∣chardes armie ga∣thered for the defēce of the Pope.

  Poli. dict. lib. 20.

  M. Horn•• armye a∣gainst the Pope.
• De schis. lib. 3. ca. 7
• The .456. Vntruth. touching Theodo∣dorich Nyem, as shall ap∣peare.

  Pius Pa. 2. Platina. Sabel.
• The .457. Vntruth. Slaunde∣rous.
• The .458. Vntruth, He vvas deposed by the Councell, not by the Em∣perour.
• The .459. Vntruth He vvas chosen of the Cardi∣nals and bishops only, not by them∣perour. Vide Nau∣cler. gen. 48. pag. 442. co. 2
• In this Libel the popes pri¦macie is clerely confessed as it shall appeare.
• The .460 Vntruth: Repairīg of Libra∣ries is no Ecclesia∣stical mat¦ter.
• Naucler.
• The .461. Vntruth. He tran∣slated the Councell in deede, not only thoughte so to do.
• The .462. Vntruth. For he cōtinued Pope af∣ter that Councell, as long as he liued.