The bloudy rage of that great antechrist of Rome and his superstitious adherents, against the true church of Christ and the faithfull professors of his gospell. Declared at large in the historie of the Waldenses and Albigenses, apparently manifesting vnto the world the visibilitie of our Church of England, and of all the reformed churches throughout Christendome, for aboue foure hundred and fiftie years last past. Diuided into three parts ... / All which hath bene faithfully collected out of the authors named in the page following the preface, by I.P.P.M. ; Translated out of French by Samson Lennard.

CHAP. II. Pope Innocent the third of that name, made shew of a de∣sire to winne the Albingenses to the Church of Rome, by preaching and conference. A famous disputation at Montreal. To what end the Pope permitted disputa∣tion in matter of Religion.

POpe Innocent the third of that name, seemed to be carried with a desire to re∣duce the Albingenses vnto the Church of Rome, by preachings and reasons, or to oppresse them and vtterly root them out, by violence of armes, and by crueltie of pu∣nishments.

But before he would come to extremities, he thought it necessary, for the better iustification of his procee∣dings, to begin with words, and afterwards to come to blowes. Hee sent therefore amongst them certaine Preachers, who endeuoured to draw them by gentle perswasions.

See here how the Compiler of the treasure of Histo∣ries speakes of those times.

When there came newes (saith he) to Pope Innocent the third, that in his Prouince of Narbonne, the traiterous Heresie was spread abroad, not onely amongst the poore, but Earles, Barons and Knights; he sent the Abbot of Cisteaux, and two Monkes with him, to preach a∣gainst those disloyall buggerers. When they had trauelled some little way, preaching throughout the Countrey, they came to Mompelier, where they met with a worthy man that was Bishop of Cestre. This honest man, asked the Abbot of Cisteaux, what hee

did there. He answered that the Pope had sent him thither, against those Sodomites, but that he could not conuert them. This good man was nothing a∣stonied at it, but he still maintained the worke of the Lord valiantly, and went on foot to giue good ex∣ample to others, and they stayed and went on foot with him. Afterwards the Abbot returned to the Chapter, or generall assembly, but the Bishop and the two Monkes, passing a long time through the Countrey and preaching, they conuerted many of the meaner sort of people, but of the great ones and richer sort, there were few or none, that returned to the true faith.

The Abbot came backe into the Countrey, and brought with him another Abbot, and diuers Monkes, and came all on foot; whereupon the Bi∣shop of Cestre began to thinke with himselfe how to returne into his Countrey, but dyed by the way.

The Monkes who preached throughout the Countrey, found the Princes so obdurate in their malice, that they resolued to stay no longer there, but returned into their Countries, except one good man, who was called Frier Peter of Chasteauneuf, who continued preaching with one of his com∣panions.

When the Albingenses knew the intention of the Pope, which was, to pretend that he was not the cause, why they whom he iudged to be wanderers, did not returne to the bosome of the Church of Rome by gen∣tle meanes, and force of reason, they began to thinke that it stood them vpon to maintaine their beleefe by such conference, otherwise they should giue occasion to the aduersaries to thinke, that there was in their Re∣ligion

some weaknesse, if there were not any Pastor that would take vpon him the defence thereof. It was therefore concluded amongst the Albingenses, to giue the Bishops to vnderstand, that their Pastors, or any one of them for the rest, were ready to maintaine their beleefe by the word of God, prouided that the conference were well ordered and moderated; that is to say, that there may be moderators, that are men of authoritie, both on the one side and the other, that may haue wherewithall to hinder all tumult and sedi∣tion. Prouided also, that it be in a place, vnto which there may be free accesse, and the place secured for all persons that may assist, or be present at the said con∣ference. Moreouer, that there bee some matter or subiect chosen by common consent, not to bee giuen ouer before it be determined; and that he that cannot defend it by the word of God, is to bee reputed and held to be vanquished.

The Bishops and Monkes did all allow of the said conditions. The place was Montreal, neere Carcasonne, the time, in the yeere one thousand two hundred and six. The Arbitrators agreed vpon by the one part and the other, B. de Villeneufue, and B. Auxerre for the Bi∣shops: and for the Albingenses, R. de Bot, and Antony Riuiere.

Arnold Hott was the Pastor for the Albingenses, ac∣companied with those that were accounted fit for such an action: He was the first that arriued at the place and day assigned: Afterwards came the Bishop Eusus, and the Monke Dominique a Spaniard, with two of the Popes Legats, that is to say, Peter Chastel and Racul de Iust, Abbot of Candets, P. Bertrand Prior d' Auteriue: as also the Prior de Palats, and diuers other Priests and Monkes.

The Theses or generall questions proposed by Ar∣nold, were these: That the Masse, with the Transub∣stantiation, was the inuention of men, not the ordi∣nance of Christ, nor his Apostles.

That the Romish Church is not the Spouse of Christ, but the Church of tumult and molestation, made drunken with the bloud of Martyrs.

That the policie of the Church of Rome, is neither good, nor holy, nor established by Iesus Christ.

Arnold sent these Propositions to the Bishop, who demanded a respit of fifteene dayes to answer, which was granted him. At the day appointed, the Bishop failed not to appeare, with a long and large writing. Arnold Hott desired to bee heard by word of mouth, saying: That he would answer to all that was contai∣ned in the said writing, intreating his auditorie that it might not be troublesome vnto them, if he were long in answering to so long a discourse. It was granted that he should bee heard with attention and patience, and without interruption. He discoursed at diuers houres, for foure dayes together, and with such admiration of those that were present, and readinesse for his part, that all the Bishops, Abbots, Monkes and Priests had rea∣son to desire they had beene elsewhere. For he framed his answer according to the points set downe in the said writing, with such order and plainnesse, that hee gaue all that were present to vnderstand, that the Bi∣shop hauing written much, had neuerthelesse conclu∣ded nothing, that might truly turne to the aduantage of the Church of Rome against his Propositions.

Afterwards Arnold made a request, that forasmuch as the Bishops and himselfe in the beginning of their conference, were bound to proue whatsoeuer they

affirmed by the onely word of God, it might bee im∣posed vpon the Bishops and Priests, to make good their Masse, such as they sing it, part by part, to haue beene instituted by the Sonne of God, and sung in the like manner by his Apostles, beginning at the en∣trance, vnto the Ite Missa est, as they terme it: but the Bishops were not able to proue, that the Masse or any part thereof, was ordained in such an action, either by Iesus Christ, or his Apostles. With this the Bishops were much discontented and ashamed. For Arnold had brought them to the onely Canon, which they pretended to be the best part of their Masse, touching which point he proued, That the holy Supper of our Lord was not the Masse. For if the Masse were the holy Supper instituted by our Sauiour, there would re∣maine after the Consecration all that which was in the Supper of the Lord, that is to say, Bread: but in the Masse there is no bread; for by Transubstantiation the bread is vanished away; therefore the Masse (saith he) without bread, is not the holy Supper of the Lord, for there is bread.

• Iesus Christ brake bread, The Priest breakes the body not the bread.
• S^t. Paul brake the bread, The Priest breakes the body not the bread.

Therefore the Priest doth not that which Christ Ie∣sus hath done, and S^t. Paul.

Vpon these Antitheses which Arnold made touch∣ing the Supper of the Lord, and the Masse, to proue that it came not from Christ nor his Apostles, the Monkes, Bishops, Legats and Priests retired them∣selues, not being willing to heare any more, and fea∣ring lest they should worke such an impression in those that were present, as might shake their beleefe touching the Masse.

The Monke of the Valley Seruay, endeuoureth to bring this action into suspition, affirming that at what time the Hereticall Iudges exceeded in number, seeing the badnesse of their cause, and the wretchednesse of their disputation, they would not (saith hee) giue any iudgement thereof, nor deliuer their writings to their aduersaries, for feare lest they should come to light, and render to the Heretikes their owne. But how should two Legats of the Pope, the Bishops, Abbots, Monkes and Priests, put themselues into any such place, where they could bee thus ouercharged with number? This Monke saith in the same place, that the principall Arch-heretikes came to the Catholikes at the Castle of Montreal, to dispute with them. So that they held then the Castle, and therefore there was no occasion of doubt, or any such violence. And further∣more, how could it be that the Bishops should request the moderators to giue iudgement in a point of dispu∣tation, when they hold that there needs no other sen∣tence than the Popes, who cannot erre? Againe, how did the Monke know that the Albingenses were ouer∣come, if there were no iudgement or sentence giuen against them? There were, about the same time, many other disputations, as at Serignan, Pannies, but this was onely to delay the Albingenses from further procee∣ding. For in the meane time whilest the Bishop of Tou∣louze, and the Bishop of Onezimonde disputed at Pa∣mies, and the Popes two Legats, with Arnold at Mon∣treal, B. of Villeneufue, Arbitrator and Moderator for the Bishops, signified, That there could bee nothing determined or agreed vpon, by reason of the com∣ming of those Armies that were to fight vnder the badge of the Crosse. This was the subtiltie of the

Pope, to entertaine them in conferences touching mat∣ter of Religion, that in the meane time he might pre∣pare great Armies, to roote out (if hee could) both themselues and their Religion.

Notes

• The Comp. of the Trea∣sure of Histo∣ries in the yeere 1206.
• This disputa∣tion was the most famous, that hath bin betweene the Albingenses, & the Bishops and Priests.
• Chassagnon ma∣keth mention in his first booke of the History of the Albingenses pag. 72.
• Also Iaques de Riberia in his collect of the Citie of Tou∣louze.
• This disputa∣tion was sent me from the Albingēses, by M^r. Rafin Pa∣stor of the Church of Realmont in old Manu∣scripts.
• The Monke of the Valley Seruay, in his Hist. of the Albing. chap. 5.
• Hilagaray in his Hist. of Foix, pa. 126.