The second part of the duply to M.S. alias Two brethren.: Wherein are maintained the Kings, Parliaments, and all civil magistrates authority about the Church. Subordination of ecclesiasticall judicatories. Refuted the independency of particular congregations. Licentiousnesse of wicked conscience, and toleration of all sorts of most detestable schismes, heresies and religions; as, idolatry, paganisme, turcisme, Judaisme, Arrianisme, Brownisme, anabaptisme, &c. which M.S. maintain in their book. With a brief epitome and refutation of all the whole independent-government. Most humbly submitted to the Kings most excellent Majestie. To the most Honorable Houses of Parliament. The most Reverend and learned Divines of the Assembly. And all the Protestant churches in this island and abroad. By Adam Steuart. Octob. 3. 1644. Imprimatur Ja: Cranford.

CHAP. II. Reasons against the Independency of Particular Congregations.

1. THe Independent Churches have no sufficient remedy for miscariages, though never so grosse; no reliefe for wrongfull Sentences, or Persons injured by them; no Powerfull or Effectuall meanes to reduce a Church, or Churches, that fall into Heresie, or Schisme, &c. All that they can doe, is only to pronounce a Sentence of Non-Communion against Delinquent Churches, as on the other side, Delinquent Churches may doe against them.

2. This Remedy is new, neither was it known to the Independent Congre∣gations, before that emergent Case in Holland, related in the Apologeticall Narration: for if that Church offending had known so much, it is not cre∣dible, that she would, against all charity, and the common Order of all Churches, have committed so great a Scandall.

3. This Remedy is not sufficient, nor satisfactory, because all Churches,

according to your Tenets, are equall in Authority, independent one of an∣other; and Par in parem non habet imperium, None hath power or authority over his Equall; How then could any Church binde another to any such Account, but out of its free will, as a Party may doe to its Party?

4. Because the Churches, that are, or that pretend to be offended by a Delinquent Church, cannot judge her, for then they become both Iudge, and Party in one cause, which cannot be granted to those who have no Authori∣tative power one over another; as when a Private man offendeth the State, and We our God.

5. What if many Churches, yea all the Churches should offend one, should that one Church gather all the rest together, judge them all, and in case of not submitting themselves to her judgement, separate her selfe from them all? If so, we should have Separations and Schismes enough, which should be con∣tinued to all Posteritie to come.

6. What if Churches were so remote one from another, that they could not so easily meet together upon every occasion? Then there should be no Remedy, at least no easie Remedy.

7. What if the Offence were small? Should so many Churches, for every trifle, gather together, and put themselves to so great cost and trouble?

8. What if the Churches should differ in their Iudgements, one from an∣other? In such a case, should they all, by Schismes, separate themselves one from another?

9. This sort of Government giveth no more Power or Authority to a thousand Churches over one, then to a Tinker, yea, to a Hangman, over a thousand; for he may desire them all, out of charitie, to give an account of their Iudgement, in case he be offended by them; Neither see I what more our Brethren grant to all the Churches of the World over one.

But the Presbyteriall Government is subject to none of these inconveni∣ences; for the collective or combined Eldership having an Authoritative power, all men and Churches thereof are bound by Law and Covenant to submit themselves thereunto: Every man knoweth their set times of meeting, wherein sundry matters are dispatched, and all things caried by Plurality of Voyces, without any Schisme or Separation.

10. This Government, viz. Iedependency, is a Power, wherein the Party is judged, if he will; and so the Iudgement of the Iudges suspended upon the Iudgement of the Party judged; which is most ridiculous, without any exam∣ple in Civill, or Ecclesiasticall Iudicatories: a Iudgement not very unlike to that, which is related of a merry man, who said, That he had the best, and most obedient Wife in the World, because, saith he, she willeth nothing, but what I will: And as all men wondred at it, (knowing her to be the most dis∣obedient) yea (saith he) but I must first will what she willeth, else she wills nothing that I will.

11. This sort of Government is unjust, and unreasonable; for not only the Party judgeth its Party, but also inslicteth the same punishment, viz. Sepa∣ration, upon all offending Churches, whatever the offence be, great or small, in case of non-satisfaction; whereas all Punishments should be commensura∣ble unto the severall Offences.

12. And so ye seem to approve the Opinion of the Stoicks, who held all sinnes to be equall; since ye inflict the same punishment upon them all.

13. Not only this Discipline cannot be easily put in execution in great Kingdomes, as England, wherein all the Churches offended cannot so easily meet together: But also,

14. Because the person offended, after he hath represented his grievances unto the Church, and that Church hath received satisfaction, he may goe to another; and so continually, in infinitum, to the Worlds end, evermore ta∣king those Churches for the Party, that judge it; which is most absurd and foolish.

15. What if the Party offended be poore, and have not the meanes to post up and down from neigbour-Church to neighbour-Church, to pray them to make the offending Church to give an account of her Iudgement? Much lesse, to attend upon their uncertain conveniencie? Here will be found true, Pauper ubique jacet; Whereas in Presbyteriall Government, the Party offended may be easily redressed, and get satisfaction, as not having need so to post up and down, to be at so great charges, or to attend their conveniencie; for by a simple Appeale he may binde the Church offending to appeare at the day ap∣pointed.

16. What if there should fall out an hundred such offences in a short time? Must so many Churches evermore gather together for every one of them apart?

17. What if Churches be poore, and cannot be at so great expence? Then in that case, it should seem, there is no Order to meet with Offences. I may adde these following Reasons:

18. This Independencie maketh all the Churches of Christ like so many Scopae dissolutae, loose Broomes, that have no tye or band to hold them together; and so destroyeth the unity of the Militant Church.

19. The very word Independencie, applied to men, how much more the thing signified thereby, should be odious to all Christian ears, as being proper to God Almighty. How proud & abominable is this expression; We seven men, who con∣stitute this Church, we will not depend on all the Churches of this World; We will not depend on any create Ecclesiasticall power, yea not upon all the Angels in Heaven, and men upon Earth: but will be Independents, and have others to depend upon us?

20. If so, what is the cause that ye oppose the Kings Majesties Absolute or Independent power in State matters? Truly, this being only Secular, cannot be so dangerous as the other, viz. as Yours; for this only may be prejudiciall

to our Bodies, or States; but Yours may kill millions of Soules: neither is the Kings Authority more limited in the State, then yours is in the Church.

21. What? will ye, that where-ever there is 7. or 8. of you combined to∣gether, to make up a Church, ye shall depend on no man, but have an inde∣pendent and absolute power to bring into the Kingdome whatever Heresie ye please, to blaspheme God, and so, vi irresistibili, with the Arminians, to goe to Hell? If so, God have mercy on you.

But it may be said, that the Civill Magistrate may hinder them: But M.S. will answer, 1. That he should not punish any man for Religion. 2. That the Civill Power is of another sort then Ecclesiasticall. 3. What if the Civill Magistrate be not a Protestant? or what if he be a profane man? 4. Howbeit he were a Protestant, and a good Christian, yet should it follow, that the Church-power is neither sufficient, nor perfect, in suo genere; since it must have recourse unto the Civill Magistrates power, which is of another nature, and extra hoc Genus.