WHen many people from every part, flocked to Rome, be∣cause of the Jubile, with wonderfull devotion, it was reported that a certain Philosopher, the chiefest of all that then lived, was found Page  54upon the bridge, whom the passengers did much admire. A certain Oratour very desirous of knowledge, sought for him carefully, and knowing him by the palenesse of his face, his long robe, and other things that shewed the gravity of a contemplative man, he courteously saluting him, demanded.

What cause is it that holds thee fixed in this place?

Admiration.

Admiration seemes to be the spur of all men that desire to know any thing. And therefore I cannot but imagine, seeing thou art accounted the chief among learned men, that it is some great cause of admiration, that makes thee so attentive.

Thou sayest well, my friend; for when I see innumerable people passe by, from almost all climates, in so great presse, I do wonder at so great a Unifor∣mity in the faith of them all, in so great diversity of bodies: For though there be no one of them like another, yet there is one faith of them all, which from the ends of the earth, hath brought them hi∣ther with so great Devotion.

Certainty, it must needs be the giftPage  55of God, that Idiots do more clearly see and reach by faith, than Philosophers by reason; for thou knowest how great enquiry he hath need of, that doth by reason handle the im∣mortality of the soul, which notwithstanding, there's none of all these that doth not, by faith alone, bold most assured; which makes them take such a deal of care and pains, that after death, their souls may be darkened with no sin, and so taken up into a most bright desired lift.

Thou tellest me a great matter, and a true one, O my friend; for I have spent all my time in going about the world, and addressing my self to wise men, that I might be more assured of the immortality of the soul. In as much as the knowledge of a mans self, was, in times past, enjoyned by the Oracle of Delphi, that the mind should know it self, and feel it self conjoyned to the di∣vine mind: but to this hour I could ne∣ver, by the clearnesse of reason, so per∣fectly reach unto that which I desire, as this ignorant people doth by faith.

If I may in civility ask, I pray thee tell me, what moved thee, who seemest a Peri∣patetick, to come to Rome? doest thou thinkPage  56to find any man here, by whome thou mayest better thy self?

I had heard that in this place, out of the Temple in the Capitol, dedi∣cated by Titus Attilius Crassus to the mind, there were found many writings of wise men concerning the mind: But I have peradventure lost my labour, un∣lesse thou, which seemest to me a good and understanding Citizen, help me.

That Crassus dedicated a Temple to the mind, it is certain: but whether there were any books there concerning the mind, and what they were, after so many sackings of Rome, no man can tell. But least thou grieve for thy lost labour, thou shalt hear one that is in my judgement an admirable man, though an Idiot, discourse of what things soe∣ver thou, wilt.

I pray thee let me, as soon as e∣ver thou canst possibly.

Follow me then.

And when they came near the Temple of Eternity, they went down in∣to a little place under ground, and there finding the Idiot making a wooden Spoons, the Oratour thus spake to him.

I am ashamed, Idiot, that thou shouldest be found by this great Philosopher, thus busied about these rustical workes; he will never beleeve that he shall hear any speculati∣ons from thee.

I do willingly imploy my self a∣bout those exercises which do continu∣ally feed both my mind and my body. And if this man whom thou bringest be a Philosopher, I do not think he will despise me ever the more, for being a Spoon-maker.

Thou sayest very well; for even Plato is said to have practised painting between whiles, which it is thought he would never have done, if it had been any hinderance to his contemplation.

It may be too, that Plato had from the Art of painting, familiar examples, by which he made great matters very easie.

So do I, in this my art, symboli∣cally enquire and seek for whatsoever I list, and so feed my mind, and then I change my spoons for other necessaries, and refresh my body, and so, as much as is sufficient for me, I get all that I have need of.

It is my fashion, when I come toPage  58any man that hath the report of a wise man, to be principally, solicitous and carefull of those things that do most trouble me; and to compare writings of the learned one with an other, and to seek out the meaning of them. But thou being an Idiot, I know not how to get thee to speak, or how to occasion some discourse, that I may see what un∣derstanding thou hast of the mind.

I do not think there is any man alive, needs lesse compulsion to speak his mind, than I do; for being that I confesse my self an ignorant Idiot, I ne∣ver fear to answer any thing. Learned Philosophers, and such as have the repu∣tation of knowledge, deliberate careful∣ly, because they have need to fear fal∣ling: Therefore if thou wilt plainly tell me, what it is thou wouldest have with me, I shall as plainly answer thee.

I cannot in few words expresse my self; if it please you, let us all sit, and talk together.

It pleaseth me well.

And when they had set stools in a triangle, and placed themselves in or∣der, thus spake the

Thou seest, O Philosopher, the sim∣plicity and plainnesse of this man, that useth none of the Ceremonies ordinary in the enter∣tainment of a man of suck worth : now make triall of him in those things which (as thou sayest) do most trouble thee, he will conceal nothing from thee which he knows, and I think thou wilt confesse thou wert not brought hither in vain.

All these things please me well: Now let us go to the matter: in the mean time be thou silent, I pray thee, and let not our long discourse seem tedious.

Thou shalt find me rather desirous to have you continue your discourse, than as one weary of it.

Tell me then, Idiot, for so thou sayest thy name is, if thou hast any con∣jecture of the mind?

I think there is not, nor ever was, any perfect man, that did not frame some conception of the mind, such as it was. I for my part, have a conception, that the mind is the bond and measure of all things; and I conjecture it is cal∣led Mens a mensurando, the mind from measuring.

Doest thou think the mind is one thing, and the soul another?

I do certainly think so; for the mind subsisting in it self is one thing, and in the body another. The mind subsist∣ing in it self is either infinite, or the i∣mage of the infinite. And of these minds which are the image of the infinite, be∣ing they are not the greatest, or absolute and infinite, subsisting in it self, I admit that some may animate humane bodies, and then I grant, that the same are, by vertue of their office, souls.

Thou grantest therefore, that the mind and the soul of a man are the same, the mind by its self, the soul by its office?

I grant it, As the sensitive and see∣ing part of the eye, in a living Wight, is one power.