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The House being Summoned by the Black-R•••• to the Lords House, His Majesty made a Speech to them, and then they returned in their own House.
His Majesty's most Gracious Speech to both Houses of Parliament, on Wedsnesday the 15th of December, 1680.
My Lords and Gentlemen,
AT the Opening of this Parliament, I did acquaint you with the Alliances I had made with Spain and Holland, as the best Measures that could be taken for the Safety of England, and the Repose of Christen∣dom.
But I told you withal, that if our Friendship be∣came unsafe to trust to, it would not be wondred at, if Our Neighbours should begin to take new Resolutions, and perhaps such as might be fatal to Ʋs.
I must now tell you, That Our Allies cannot but see how little has been done since this Meeting, to encourage their dependance upon Ʋs: And I find by them, that unless We can be so united at home, as to make Our Alliance valuable to them, it will not be possible to hin∣der them from seeking some other Refuge, and making such new Friendships, as will not be consistent with Our Safety. Consider, that a neglect of this Opportunity is never to be repaired.
I did likewise lay the matter plainly before you, touching the state and condition of Tangier. I must now tell you again, That if that place be thought worth the keeping, you must take such consideration of it, that it may be speedily supply'd; it being impossible for Me to preserve it at an Expence so far above My power.
I did promise you the fullest satisfaction your hearts could wish, for the Security of the Protestant Religi∣on, and to concurr with you in any Remedies, which might consist with preserving the Succession of the Crown in its due and legal course of Descent: I do again, with the same Reservations, renew the same Promises to you.
And being thus ready on My part to do all that can reasonably be expected from Me, I should be glad to know from you, as soon as may be, now far I shall be assisted by you; and what it is you desire from Me.
Mr. Speaker,
Sir, I would willingly Move you to ap∣point a day to consider of His Majesty's Speech now made to both Houses, because it is according
to the usual Methods of Parliament; and I should be sorry to see this House shew less respect to His Majesty's Speeches, than former have done. But upon hearing it now Read, I do conclude, that it will be to little purpose to appoint a day for the consideration of it, because every Paragraph of it tends to Money, unless that about securing Religi∣on, if it may be so understood, notwithstanding the Reservation in it about the Succession. We have already endeavoured by several Addresses we have made, to assure His Majesty of our Loyalty and readiness to promote whatever may tend to his Happiness and Greatness; and that when we are secured of our Religion, we will readily give Money: we can do no more than confirm the same, after we have considered this Speech. We having not yet had any incouragement to give Money, we have made several Addresses for relief of some Grievances the people lie under, but hath any one of them been granted? We have finished one Bill a∣gainst Popery, but what success hath it had else∣where? thrown out as hastily rs if it had carried a fire-ball with it. And yet now it seems there is nothing to be done but giving of Money; as if all our complaints were granted, the Protestant Reli∣gion secured, and nothing wanting to satisfie the people. Sir, I think the complaints of the Nati∣on, as to the danger of Popery, are so great, and so reasonably grounded, as that it cannot be expect∣ed they should longer be satisfied with words or pretences, because we have met with many disap∣pointments, especially after giving of Money. And therefore considering the desperate case we are in, it will not be convenient we should go that way now, but keep our Money until we have got
Laws. Which, I think, is the best service we can do those who sent us here, as the case stands. For these reasons, I think, we had best adjourn the Considerations of this Speech to some other time.
Mr. Speaker,
Sir, we have been long jealous that there are people that endeavour to create a Misunder∣standing between His Majesty and this House; which it is our business to prevent. If there be a difference between two men, and the one will not hear what the other offers, but be utterly against all Proposals, it would be hard to reconcile two such persons, Treaties and Debates being a proper way to come to a fair understanding. It is true, most of the Paragraphs of his Majesty's Speech are Memento's about Money; but in the Conclusion he is pleased to tell you, That he desires to know how far he shall be assisted by us, and what it is that we desire from him. Sir, I think this is a fair step towards coming to a right understanding; for I am apt to believe, that if the King knew how reasonable the things are that we desire of him, and how ready we are to give him all the assistance he can desire for the support of the Go∣vernment, that we should not long continue under these misunderstandings; and therefore I humbly move you to appoint a day to consider his Maje∣sty's Speech.
Resolved, That this House will on Saturday-morning next take into consideration his Majesty's gracious Speech this day made to both Houses of Parlia∣ment.
The House then resolved into a Grand Committee how to secure the Kingdom against Popery and Arbitrary Government. Mr. Powle in the Chair.
Sir, when I consider the Immunities and Advantages we enjoy by the excellent composure of our Government both in Church and State, how the King as Sovereign, enjoys all the Prero∣gative that can be necessary to make him either great or happy, and the People all the Liberty and Priviledge that can be pretended for their encou∣ragement to be industrious, and for securing to themselves and Posterities the enjoyment of what they get by their industry. How the Doctrine of the Church is void of Idolatrous, superstitious O∣pinions, and the Government of Tyranny or ab∣solute Dominion; I cannot but admire that there should be any body amongst our selves that should aim at any alteration, and be the occasion of this days Debate. But, Sir, it is too evident that such there are, and that they have made a great advance to effect there design, by many contrivances which they have pursued for a long course of years, ac∣cording to the Results and Consultations held by Jesuits for that purpose: But above all, by con∣verting to their Religion James Duke of York, the presumptive Heir of the Crown, and by engaging him to espouse their interest with that zeal and fervency which usually attends new Converts; especially when so great a glory is proposed as the rooting out of a pestilent Heresie out of three Nations, and the saving of so many Souls as would depend thereon. The sad effect of this Conversion we have felt for many years, it having had the same operations in our Body Politick, as some sorts of
lingring Poison hath in Bodies Natural; made us sick and consumptive, by infecting and corrupting all the food and Physick which hath been applied in order to reduce us to Popery and slavery, worse than death it self. From this fatal act the declination of the Grandeur of this Monarchy may be dated▪ and to the consequences thereof its absolute ru∣ine (if not timely prevented) will be hereafter attributed. This being our case, I could not but admire to see this House so long a-coming to consi∣der this weighty point; insomuch, that I began to perswade my self, that either our dangers were not so great as our discourses upon some other oc∣casions had represented them, or that we were not in good earnest to endeavour any redress. It is true, when we consider what ill fortune we have had with our Bill lately sent up to the House of Lords, in having it thrown out in such a heat without so much as a Conference, (though when∣ever they shall consider of it in cool bloud, they will find there can be no other way to secure the Protestant Religion) we may with some reason be discouraged. But I hope, Sir, that seeing our Country have thought us worthy to be their Re∣presentatives, we shall not be so easily daunted in what so nearly concerns them, but be as indefati∣gable in finding out ways for our preservation, as our Enemies are to find out means for our destru∣ction; hoping we shall not meet always so bad success in the House of Lords: For though the too much kindness of some men who pretended to be for the Bill, but underhand made a party against it, did this time operate as fatally as Enmity disguised in Friendship useth to do, yet I hope that in another occasion we may have better success; not doubt∣ing
but a great many Lords, when they are per∣swaded that they shall not be able to find out any other way (as I hear they begin to dispair they shall) to secure the Protestant Religion, that they will join with us in the same, or some other Bill to the same purpose: Especially my good Lords the Bishops, who cannot be presumed to have made peace with Rome, but to be ready to die for the Protestant Religion, and therefore doubtless will not long stick at joining in a Bill to save it. But seeing that according to the course of Parliaments we are not like to bring this to a trial for a long time, I am of opinion we had best try something else; and although I know not what other Act can be made to serve instead of that, but will ei∣ther prove too weak or too strong; yet seeing we are put upon it, we must try, that so we may not be represented as stubborn. And therefore I humbly move you that a Bill may be brought in for the Association of all his Majesty's Protestant Sub∣jects.
Sir, Great things are expected from this days Debate, and we could not well have entred into it sooner; it now comes more seasonable than it would have done before, because of the oppor∣tunities we have had to feel the Pulse of affairs, since the beginning of the Session, and the time we have spent in asserting the right of Petitioning, by which the essence of Parliaments, and the foun∣dation of the Peoples Liberties were struck at. And the trial of my Lord Stafford, and the Disin∣heriting-Bill could not possibly have been avoided. And as our labour hath not been lost in all, so I hope that at last we shall have some benefit of that spent about the Succession-Bill. For as it was said
at the passing of the Bill, that there were a Loyal party that would never acquiesce in it; so I do be∣lieve there is a true Protestant-party that will ne∣ver acquiesce in any thing less than what may be sufficient for the security of their Religion, which I am apt to believe will end in that Bill. But in the mean time, that we may shew that we are not humorists, let us try what strength we can muster up to oppose these great Enemies by some other Laws; as when a House is on fire we make use of Buckets and Tubs for casting of water, until the great Engines can be got. But I would move you to be cautious what you do, for I am afraid that the design of putting you upon finding out Expedients is not in order to have any thing done that may be effectual against Popery, but in or∣der to have you offer at something that may pur∣chase a disrepute on the House, and give your E∣nemies an advantage to pursue their designs of breaking us, by alleading that you aim at Laws that will overturn the Government. For my part, I am fully perswaded that this is the design of those that have put the King so often to declare a∣gainst altering the Succession, and to recommend o∣ther ways; and that offer at what you will, if it be any thing that is like to prove strong enough to secure us against Popery, that you will see the House put off before it come to any perfection, and that in time it will be made use of to arraign the Proceedings of Parliament, and to perswade the people that this House did attempt to alter the Government by such and such Bills, and so by degrees possess the people that Parliaments are ei∣ther dangerous, or inconsistent with the Government; that if possible they may be well content to be
without them. Sir, I am afraid that the Popish party are more serious in this design than we are aware of; and that next to the great endeavours they have used for many years to keep up our di∣visions in points of Religion, the next great Ar∣tifice which they depend on, is the infusing into the people the dislikes of Parliaments: for they well know that Popery can never be established in this Nation as long as Parliaments are permitted to sit and act. Therefore, though I know it is be∣low a House of Commons to mind every little dis∣course, yet I think if we conclude that this pow∣erful party amongst their many designs have this for one, that we ought to countermine it as much as we can. We cannot well comprehend what a Bill of Association will be before it be drawn up, nor what difficulties may be found in the contriving of it; and therefore I think no great Debate will be necessary about it before such a Bill be brought in. And I believe it will be found more likely to be serviceable in case the Papists be banished; and therefore I conceive a Bill for Banishment of all the Considerable Papists out of England may be very necessary. And if at the same time that we en∣deavour to secure our selves against Popery, we do not also do something to prevent Arbitrary Power, it will be to little purpose; for the one will be sure to give a hand to bring in the other; and I think nothing can prevent that, or rather both, better than frequent Parliaments. And therefore I humbly move you that a Bill for securing fre∣quent Parliaments may be taken into your conside∣ration.
Sir, I think you are well advised that the way to secure our selves effectually against Po∣pery,
is to secure our selves also against Arbitrary Government, and that the having of frequent Par∣liaments is the best way to secure both; and there∣fore, Sir, I think you may do well to move the House that a Committee be appointed to inspect what old Laws there are for enforcing the sitting of frequent Parliaments, that if they should be found deficient, some new Laws may be made for that purpose. I do agree that a Bill for Bani∣shing out of England the most Considerable Papists may do well; but I hope, Sir, that if you banish the Men, you will banish some Women too; for I do believe that some of that Sex have been great Instruments in bringing about our ruine: and if in time you would consider how to prevent the Royall Families marrying Popish Women, it would be of great security for hereafter. For I am of opinion that the late Queen-Mother's Zeal for her Religion, was not only a great occasion (amongst many o∣thers) of the miseries that befel us in 41. but the great Cause of all our Miseries now, by perver∣ting the Duke from his Religion, as is reported, and may reasonably be believed, if we conclude that she had that motherly care for the salvation of her Children as other Mothers usually have; for ac∣cording to her Opinion, it was not to be obtained out of the pale of that Church; And no man can doubt but that the Protestant Interest hath been much prejudiced by his Majesty's marrying a Princess of that Religion: For we have plainly seen, since the discovery of the Plot, how some of the most material Jesuits and Popish Instruments have sheltered themselves under her Royal protection, and how they have helpt to carry on the Plot, by being so impudent as to pretend they had her
patronage, and by abusing her Authority; but more especially by the Duke's marrying the Princess of Modena, because of her near relation to the Popes and Cardinals. All which was plainly fore∣seen by that Parliament which met a little before that Marriage, in 1673. and therefore they made an Address to his Majesty, representing the said ill consequences, desiring him not to permit it, because it would tend to the destruction of the Protestant Religion. But their endeavours were defeated by that party, as we may guess, seeing we find so much use of her name in Coleman's Letters; for well might they who have over-ruled in so many great affairs as hath been instanced in this House, have an influence also in this, that so that party might not want so useful an Instrument in so great a station: and so the Parliaments Address mis∣carried; but that they had either a good Judg∣ment, or prophetick Spirit, I hope will never mis∣carry, but remain upon Record. And unless you do believe that these Ladies are less compassionate than others usually are, how can it be otherwise, their Principles considered? But, Sir, I will not trouble you farther about it, but suppose it may be worth your consideration in due time. In the in∣terim, I agree for the Bill of Banishment and Associa∣tion too.
Sir, It is not to be doubted but that Popery and Arbitrary Government are so near of Kin as cannot be separated, and therefore if we de∣stroy the one, we need not fear the destruction of the other. Before our late miserable Wars, Popery was more in Masquerade, and Arbitrary Power in the Loans, Monopolies, and Ship-money, more visible: now Popery is more visible, excepting in the busi∣ness
of Exchequer, which amounting to above one Million of Money, we may not admire we have not heard of more great things of that kind, since especially, being we know how averse the King is to hearken to such advice, but our fears of Popery are the stronger because of the Popish Suc∣cessour, and therefore I cannot but commend the policy of those who are tender in using Arbitrury proceedings at this time, lest the Fears and Jealou∣sies that might arise from both together should prove intolerable.
I must confess, Sir, I am at a great loss what to offer to your consideration in this matter, for our danger is not only from the strength of the Popish party, but from the weakness of the Protestants by reason of the animosities which they sow a∣mongst us, not only in points of Religion, but of Interest too. For of late they have not been con∣tent with carrying on the design of dividing the Church-men and Fanaticks, but by arraigning the last Parliament as omnipotent and dangerous for going about to disinherit the Duke. They endea∣vour to divide the people in their opinions as to Parliaments, and to render them incompatible with the Government, that so if possible they may keep the Protestant Interest divided, and work them to destroy themselves, by engaging party a∣gainst party, in hopes at last to have but one party to deal with, and to have an opportunity of gaining the weakest to their side by assurances of Liberty of Con∣science, or otherways, which must certainly be the consequence of such a contest. And although I am very unwilling to detract from the merits of our Church-men, for whom I have a great vene∣ration, yet I cannot but observe how that ever
since the Tryal of Wakeman was over, but more about the time of the Presbyterian-plot, how they preached up (especially in publick Assemblies) the danger of Fanaticks to be more than of Papists, and that to disinherit the Duke was against the Law of God. Which said Opinions, if they should be imbibed by the people, what will your Association-bill si∣gnifie, or any other Law you can make against Po∣pery? Sir, I do not mention these things to you without a great deal of regret; for I am well known to be a true friend of the Church, and have (when I was thought worthy to be in Commis∣sion) exprest my self a severe Enemy to Fanati∣cism. But however, I cannot but observe this strange contradiction of pretending to keep out Popery, and yet at the same time to endeavour to divide the Protestant Interest, and to reserve a right to make a Papist King. I must confess I am more distracted from the ill consequences I fear from such contrivances as these, than from the strength of the Papists themselves. They will certainly go on with their Interest, as long as they are secure of such Auxiliaries. These things must be consider∣ed in the drawing of your Bill, that so the reme∣dy you propose may be proportionable to your di∣sease. For an Act of Association may be several ways evaded by such opinions as these, if they should grow amongst the people, and it will be an irrepairable blow to the Protestant Interest to accept of such an Expedient, if it should prove ineffectual. And therefore it ought to be so drawn, as may provide for all the contrivances of that party: For, Sir, I cannot imagine that ever Popery will attempt to come into this Nation bare-faced, but do expect that the design will always be carried on as
hitherto under some disguise, either by a toleration in favour of tender Consciences, or in the name of Church∣men, or a Loyal party, for the defence of the Church or Government, which some Presbyterian-plot would much conduce, and be an excellent pretence for rising of an Army, and apprehending or disarming of such persons as are most likely to oppose that Interest. I must confess, Sir, I have not very well digested what I have said to you on this Subject; but unless you can change the Interest at Court, and remove those Counsellors that are so much for the Duke, I think you may justly fear all these Stratagems, and that it will be impossible to contrive any Association-Bill that can provide against them. And there∣fore, that we may not spend our time in vain, I would humbly move you, Sir, to go on with the Bill of Banishment, which is most likely to do you some service. At least, by it we shall see, whe∣ther any thing will be granted against Papists or no: For this purpose it will be necessary, that the House be moved, that the Knights, Citizens, and Burgesses, he commanded to bring in a List of all the most considerable Papists in England, in or∣der to banish the most notorious.
Sir, I retain a good opinion of an Asso∣ciation-bill, notwithstanding what hath been said as to the weakness it may receive from our unhappy Divisions in points of Religion and In∣terest, too much promoted by some of our Clergy. For, Sir, when I consider how the Laudean princi∣ples, as to raising of Money without Parliaments in the late times, infected most of our Clergy, so as that they not only preached up the Kings absolute Authority over mens Properties, but branded with the title of Rebels, and condemned to Hell those that offered to
argue against it: I do conclude, that it is usual for one or two Bishops, to give measures or directions to the rest of the Bishops, and they to the Clergy of their several Diocesses: And that therefore the Clergy de∣rive the Politicks generally from one or two Bishops in some great station. Yet, Sir, when I remember how after some little time many of the Clergy fell off, and would not follow such instructions; and how the people soon excused themselves from following their advice in such Politicks, and would not free∣ly pay illegal Taxes, notwithstanding all their en∣deavours. I am apt to think, Sir, that as the peo∣ple were not long then mislead, so as to submit to lose their property, so they will not now, to any thing that shall tend to the losing of their Religi∣on and property both. They will soon discover what is their interest, and how true interest will not lye. I have often told you within these walls, they will soon apprehend that Popery will bring in Slavery, and reduce them not only to an Ido∣latrous, Superstitious Religion, but to wear Wood∣den-shoes like the French, and to eat Herbs like the Spaniard, because they will soon know that they shall not be long Masters of any thing they have: And however they may be perswaded for a while, I am confident they will at last consult how to save their Bacon. They will discern that the Cler∣gy may be good Divines, but not so good Politi∣cians; and that there may be some difference in point of Interest between them and the Clergy, because Cler∣gy-men may be in a possibility of being advanced by Popery if they submit; but the Laity under a proba∣bility of losing all notwithstanding all Submissions. Sir, I do not trouble you with this Discourse out of a fear that our Clergy will not shew themselves
good Protestants, for I have that veneration for them, and opinion of them, as to believe, that many of the Bishops, and Clery too, would as soon die for the Protestant Religion as any persons in the Nation. But I am jealous, that there is some over-awing Power got in amongst them, something an∣swerable to that of a Popish Successor in the State; by whose means those Bills were so easily past in the late long Parliament, under a pretence that they were for the preservation of the Protestant Religion, which the Commons then sound, and any person that will now peruse them may find, would infallibly have brought in Popery. And, how since the Plot, the danger of Fanaticks is cried up more than that of the Papists; and how tender they are in the point of a Popish Successor, or joining in any thing against him. But though these things make me jealous, there is some body that misleads them now in matters relating to Popery, as former∣ly in things relating to Property, yet I am of opi∣nion that they will ere long see, that to stand up for the Interest of a Popish Successor; to have a Popish King, to weaken the Protestant Interest, and speak ill of Parliaments, is not the right way to preserve the Protestant Religion; but a plain con∣tradiction, and an invention of Jesuits. And there∣fore, Sir, I am for going on with the Association-Bill; for I will never doubt, that the true Interest of the Nation, in so great a concern as this, will long be baffled by such projectors. And therefore it is my desire; that the House may be moved to ap∣point a Committee to draw up a Bill for that pur∣pose.
Sir, I think you have been well mo∣ved, as well for the Association-Bill as the Bani∣shing
Bill. By the one, you will send your Ene∣mies out of the Country; by the other, be in a good condition to keep them out, which may go a great way to secure us.
Sir J. H. and Mr. L. G. for the Bani∣shing Bill.
Sir, I am not against any of these Bills, because they may be all convenient for the present occasion: but if any man think that these Bills will do without the Succession-Bill, I believe they will find themselves mistaken. For these Bills will signifie nothing, unless you can remove your Popish Successor, and your Popish Interest. These Bills will not reach your Papists in Masquerade, who will certainly continue as long as there is a Popish Suc∣cessor, and make your Banishing-Bill, and Associa∣tion-Bill too, as ineffectual as white paper. Let such as I could name to you, have the command of the Sea-ports, (as I suppose they will, without my naming them) and in the Lieutenancy and Commission of the Peace, and when the present heat is over, let the Papists come back when they will, they will have no cause to doubt having a kind reception. For you must not expect to have plain rustick Country Gentlemen in such Commands, but well-bred Courtiers, and some good easie eredu∣lous Gentlemen, that will soon be perswaded there is no danger in Popery; and then of what use will your Banishing or Association-bill be? As long as the Duke hath so many friends at Court, (between whose Interest and Popery I cannot hear there is any distinction) I think no Laws that we can make against Popery will do us any good, be∣cause all the Laws we have already have done us none. For the same arts and power that hath hitherto
defeated all your other Laws, will also defeat what you are now about. And therefore, Sir, I am of opinion we are not now acting like the true Physi∣cians of the Nation, but like Mountebanks. For the most we shall be able to do this way, is to patch and plaster up our sores, and have them hereaf∣ter break out incurable upon us. But if you are resolved to go on with these Bills that have been proposed, I will not offer to oppose the sense of the Committee, but would move you, (that we may not forget, or lose in the Crowd, that which at last, I believe, must be pursued, if ever you will do any thing for your Religion) that in the first place you pass a Vote, That it is the opinion of this Committee, that as long as the Papists have any hopes of the Duke of York's succeeding the King, that the King's person, the Protestant Religion, and the Lives and Liberties of the People are in apparent dan∣ger.
Sir, I have read that a great Minister of State of Spain, gave this short advice to a friend of his that was coming Embassador into England; that he should not always aim at the best. I think it may be convenient for us to follow that advice; for if we should not have something for our secu∣rity, before we get the best, I am afraid it may hap∣pen to us, as it did to a man whose House was be∣set with Thieves, he was so long arming his ser∣vants, and appointing them their distinct quarters, that the Thieves broke in, and caught them all unprovided. I pray God it may not be our case; though I am very sensible that none of these Bills can effectually do our business; for nothing can secure us against this party but being free of their Principles as well as of their Persons; which I con∣clude
will always remain in some persons amongst us, notwithstanding your banishing of Papists, as long as there is a Popish Successor. For I remem∣ber what a great man of Swedeland told me, that all the Laws they could make, had never any effect a∣gainst them, until they not only banished them out of their Country, but secured the Government in the hand of Princes of their own Religion; And I am afraid, that nothing less than the same way will ever do our business here. For it is not so much the number of the Papists, as their Principles, and the danger of their getting the Government into their hands, which we know they have been long aiming at, that may justly be feared, in which I am perswaded they will be so restless, as that we shall never be secure against them, unless we can banish their Principles from Court, as well as the Peo∣ple out of the Country.
Sir, what my good friend that spoke last hath said, that we should get something, and not lose all by aiming so earnestly at the best, is very well, if we were like to get any thing instead of it, that shall have the appearance of being ser∣viceable in this case: But I have seen old Parlia∣ment-men mistaken sometimes, and I am afraid than he will sooner see this Parliament dissolved; that any thing granted that shall be material a∣gainst Popery. And that the mentioning of these Bills shall afterwards arise in Judgment against you; however, I think we must adventure. What this Association-bill may be, I cannot tell until it be drawn; but I see no opposition made to any of those Bills that have been proposed; and I believe there is much business yet behind for this day, and that you will do well to husband your time,
and put this business out of your hands by putting the questions.
Sir, you have been very well moved for the bringing in of such Bills as may tend as much to the security of the Protestant Religion as any that can be offered. That of Banishment will cer∣tainly go a great way to destroy, not only their Power, but their Interest and Principles too, and be a great disheartning to their party abroad. That Interest will not then have so many Engines to work with here, as now they have. And the Bill of Association will be necessary, that we may have a Law to defend our selves. The Associa∣tion made in Queen Elizabeth's time, will be a good Precident to draw it up by. And seeing there is no opposition, I move you to put the Que∣stion.
Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, that one means to suppress Popery is, That the House be moved that a Bill be brought in imme∣diately, to banish all the considerable Papists out of the Kingdoms.
Sir, By offering at the Exclusion Pill, we may conclude we have offended the Duke of York; by this Bill for Banishment, all the rest of the con∣siderable Papists in England. As we have made many Enemies so it will be convenient that we should endea∣vour to get some Law to defend our selves against their Implacable Designs. For which a Bill for an Asso∣ciation of all His Majesty's Protestant Subjects may do well; and therefore I pray that we may Move the House to have it brought in.
Sir, as we are sick of complicated Diseases,
though all have their original from one cause, see∣ing we cannot be permitted to cure that cause, we must think of many Remedies to cure the many Evils that sprout from it. The Banishing of the Papists alone will do it. And I am not willing to pass any judgment on the Association-Bill before I see it. But, Sir, what fruit can you expect from your Laws, unless you can secure good Judges in Westminster-hall, and good Men in Commission in all other places. Is there at this time a Judge, a Depu∣ty Lieutenant, or a Justice of Peace in Commission, that you can expect shall act against the Duke of York. Or if any such be in, are they for more than a co∣lour? Are they not over-power'd by such as are for the Dukes Interest? If this do not make all your Laws invalid, by not executing them; is there not an Army of about Ten thousand men under the name of Guards, and may not more be raised, and what then will your Laws signifie. Have we not already had some experience of this, when the To∣leration came out in 1672. when there was that Army at Black-heath, and Clifford had the manage∣ment of the great affairs of State? If the King had not then hearkened to the Advice of his Parlia∣ment, what would all the Laws that were then in force against Papists have signified. And may you not see the same again, if you do not take some care to prevent it. What great difference between Clifford and some of our present great Ministers, on∣ly that he had that weakness to declare himself to be a Papist, and these the discretion to keep the knowledge of their Religion to themselves. But we see they manage things as much in favour of Popery, as ever Clif∣ford did. Did not that Toleration, that Army, and that minister of state, repeal all your Laws as effectu∣ally,
as if they had never been made? When I con∣sider how the Tripple-League was broke, after we had made Laws for the keeping it, by giving near Three Millions; how the Peace was made up at Nimeguen, after we had made an Act for an actual War with France, and given above a Million for entring into it. I will never believe that any Law will be observed, make what you will, unless there be those about the King that may be for the keeping of it; o∣therwise you shall have such Judges, Justices, De∣puty-Lieutenants, and other Commissionated Offi∣cers, as will repeal your Laws at pleasure. And therefore I could wish you would consider well, how you possess those that sent you here, with an opini∣on that they may depend upon such Laws as these. And at the same time, Sir, that you are consulting the destruction of the Papists, I think, you may do well to endeavour the preservation of the Protestants. Is this a time for the Church-men and Dissenters to quar∣rel? It is like two Men riding upon a Road, a High-way-man coming to Rob them, instead of uniting to defend themselves, they quarrel and dis∣arm one the other, and so were both Robbed. I pray God this do not prove at last our case. For as that project of the Papists hath since Wakeman's Tryal, had strange success in dividing us, so no doubt but will at last come to Dis-arming us too; and how that will facilitate their conquest, may be easily calculated? Is this a time to weaken the Protestant Interest, by tearing us in pieces by the execution of acts made against Papists? That man that can believe, that that is the way to preserve the Protestant Religion, or Protestant-Church, is fit to believe that St. Denys walkt many miles with his head under his arm, or any other Popish Miracle
whatsoever. And therefore I think you will do well to hasten the Bill for Ʋniting of the Protestant Dissenters, that we may bring into the Church as many of them as is possible, and not longer be so infatuated to gratifie the Papists in that particular, by doing their business in destroying one another; but prevent them if possible by Union, which will tend more to prevent Popery, than all the Bills that have been proposed.
Sir, I have read in Scripture, What King going to wake War against another, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty. I take the denial of the Bill of Exclusion, to be a plain demonstration, that the Popish party should not be de∣prived of a right to govern us; and it is not to be doubted, that having that right, they will be sure to make use of all the power they can to back it with. That we may be the better able to judge whether we can fortifie our selves sufficiently against such a right, and the power that will natu∣rally follow it. I pray, Sir, let us follow our Sa∣viours Advice, and consult, whether with ten thou∣sand we can meet twenty thousand.
When I consider how the Tripple-League was broke, and how all Alliances and Transactions re∣lating to Peace and War have been since managed in favour of the French Interest, contrary to the true Interest of England, and the pressing importu∣nities of Foreign Nations, as well as our own, I think we cannot but conclude, that the Dukes Interest, the French Interest, and Popish Interest is all one. And that the Duke's or Popish Interest, have some great dependance on the French King, for his assistance in the settling of Popery here. And no man can
dout this, but he that will not believe Coleman's Letters, or that there was a peace made at Nimme∣gen, in order to put him in the better condition. If the Jesuits do manage all the affairs of Europe, as is said, it may be justly feared, that the French King will improve this agreement so, as to get Flanders, if not Holland too, before he perform his promise of giving them the expected assistance, which be∣ing it will conduce to the destroying of the Pro∣testants abroad, as well as here, we may justly fear the Jesuits will never obstruct.
Besides, the dependance which the Papists may have of assistance from this mighty Monarch; in Ireland they are five to one for the Protestants, and amount to many hundred thousands, full of bloody revenge derived from their Ancestors, wanting nothing but Arms (which they may have from France in a night) to be enabled to Massacre all the Protestants in Ireland, and to be ready to be trans∣ported hither. How the Plot has been carried on there in order to it; how endeavours have been there used to stiffle and Counterplot it; who Com∣mands all the English Coast opposite to Ireland, we know; and how our Forts and Castles are provi∣ded, the Examination of the Governour of Cheap∣stow-Castle may inform you.
And that there may not want a strength to compel us on every side, is not the Government of Scot∣land quite altered, by some Acts made within these few years? is it not become very near Arbitrary, Parliaments in a manner laid aside, and the power invested in a Privy-Council? And is there not a standing Army of Twenty two thousand men, set∣led by Act of Parliament, with a Declaration, that they shall be ready to come into England upon any
occasion. And is not the Duke now there, mana∣ging the Government of that Kingdom, and Ar∣my too, by putting in his own Creatures into the Council and into the Command of the Army, and using all other ways imaginable to improve his in∣terest there.
And may we not conclude, that in England there may be one hundred thousand Papists fighting men, and that Portsmouth, Plimouth, Sheerness, Tilbury-Fort, and Hull, and all other places of impor∣tance, shall, when that Interest shall think it con∣venient, be in the hands of persons they may con∣fide in, as well as the command of the Militia and Fleet.
And what now, Sir, can any man say is wanting to enable this Party to make a great contest with us, but a Popish King to head them? And doth any thing stand in their way for that, but His Majesty's Life? And is it not strange, that though we see this never so plain, that there is no remedy for poor Protestants? Can it be imagined, that if this par∣ty should once have a King on their side, endowed with a valorous Spirit, and vowed revenge, spur∣ed on with a fiery zeal, to get not only Three Crowns on Earth, but the Crown of Glory in Heaven, by rooting out a pestilent Heresie out of three Nations, that they will neglect so great an opportunity for the establishing of Popery here? And will not the Divisions they carry on amongst us, as to Church-men and Fanaticks, Plot or no Plot, be very useful to them, but especially their arraignments of Parliaments, and all that speak against Popery, as Forty-one-men, and Enemies to the Government, occasion a great weakness on our side? I think, Sir, all this put together, makes a great
strength for that party, enough to bring us into misery, whatever the issue may be. I would now, Sir, give you some account how the Protestants may be able in such a case to defend themselves; but, I protest, Sir, I know not what defence they will be able to make legally. It is true, Sir, as long as our good King lives, we may live in quiet; but things being thus, are not the Papists under great temptations to go on with their old damnable design, or set up a new one for the destruction of the King. And if it should so happen, either by their wicked counsels, or naturally, I think there is no way left us to oppose this party, but by a Rebellion, and therefore I think we may conclude, that our Lives, Liberties, and Religion, are to deter∣mine with the King's life.
I confess, Sir, this is a melancholy Discourse, but I am afraid too true; and that the more you con∣sider of it, the more reason you will have to be∣lieve, that there is such a Net spread to catch poor Protestants, as cannot fail to do it effectually, when∣ever the Jesuits shall be pleased to draw it. And our condition looks the more dismal, because though King, Lords, and Commons have so of∣ten declared that there hath been a damnable, ex∣ecrable, devilish, hellish, abominable Plot carried on by the Papists, yet that all remedies against the like for the future must be denied us; I mean such as can signifie any thing, and we must now again be exposed, as we were before the Plot broke out, to all their barbarities, having only weakened that party by executing about twenty old men; but strengthned them much more by having discoura∣ged all Witnesses from ever revealing more of their Plots, and by the discoveries they have made
of the strength of their party, in the stiffling of this Plot. And yet all will not open the eyes of some Protestants, that so if possible we might be so happy as to lay our divisions aside and join a∣gainst the common Enemy, without which we must certainly be ruin'd.
And if this be our case, and there be nothing wanting but a Popish King to compleat our mise∣ry, and the art of man cannot find out any way to secure us against a Popish King without the Ex∣clusion-Bill; is it not strange it should be rejected in the House of Lords? I cannot believe that the Fathers of the Church should join in that which must infallibly give opportunity for the tearing out of the Bowels of their Mother, and destroying her for ever. If so, well may we lie down and cry, We have no body to help us, but only thee O God.
Sir, I have troubled you too long, but I hope what I have said, may be of some use to you in resolving about these Bills that are proposed, though I think they will all come short of our case. Seeing you have Voted a Bill for the Bani∣shing of the Papists, I think you may do well to try what a Bill of Association may amount to: But I agree with the opinion of those worthy Members that have told you, that these things are put upon you, that you may give occasion to those that wish ill to Parliaments, to argue thereby for your Dissolution; and afterwards to perswade the People that you went about to dissolve the foundation of the Government. And therefore I do not expect any good effect of these Bills.
Sir, by the serious discourse which that worthy Member hath made of the sadness
and in security of our condition we may plainly see, how by the interest of the Duke of York, there is a great power combined against us, and that our condition is irrecoverable, if he should come to be King. And therefore, Sir, I desire you would put the question, upon a motion that was made a little while since, That it is the opinion of this Committee, that as long as the Papists have any hopes of the Duke's succeeding to the Govern∣ment of this Nation, that the King's Person, nor the Protestant Religion, nor the Government of this Nation cannot be secure.
Resolved, That it is the opinion of this Committee, that as long as the Papists have any hopes of the Duke of York's succeeding the King in the Kingdoms of England and Ireland, and Dominions thereunto belonging, the King's Person, the Protestant Reli∣gion, and the Lives, Liberties, and Properties of all his Majesty's Protestant Subjects, are in apparent danger of being destroyed.
Sir, I am of opinion the Popish Plot go∣eth on as much as ever, and the Papists are so proud of it, as they cannot forbear bragging of their hopes to see better days speedily. I think, Sir, seeing we are not like for one while to have the Exclusion-Bill, we shall appear neglectful of our duty, if we do not try what security can be contrived by an Association-Bill. And therefore I humbly pray that the House may be moved to ap∣point a Committee to draw up and bring in a Bill for Associating all his Majesty's Protestant Sub∣jects.
Sir, The reason why we are now in
this debate, is because a Negative is past on our Bill for excluding to Duke of York. It is strange, seeing the danger of the Protestant Religion is so great, (if there be any intent to save it) that the only Bill which could serve for that end should be thought too much. I am of opinion, that no other Bills can do us any service at all; for it will be pretended they are all void, because made a∣gainst the Right and Prerogative of your lawful King, without this Exclusion-Bill. Yet seeing his Majesty hath so often in his Speeches recom∣mended the security of the Protestant Religion by other ways, I think it is our duty to try what o∣ther Laws can be made, though it be only to give the King and the world satisfaction, and to enable us the better to judge whether such Speeches proceed from his Majesty's goodness, or from evil Coun∣sel. I must confess, Sir, I am afraid, seeing the Duke of York's interest is now as great at Court as ever, and that there are so many of the Privy-Counsellors for him, as well as most others in places of Trust and Command, that they that ad∣vise the King to put in that limitation in all His Speeches, do know that without that Law there can be none made that can prejudice the Duke's Interest, and so consequently not save the Protestant Religion, and therefore they advise it. For how can we rea∣sonably presume otherways, seeing his Interest is so fixt as it is, and the Wheel within the Wheel con∣tinues, which hath been so often complained of. When I ponderate on the good things his Maje∣sty always doth, when he is pleased to exclude the corrupt Politicks, and advice of others, I cannot but lament afresh our great Misfortune in having a Popish Successor, that should be able to create such
an Interest, as to hinder us from the good effect thereof. His Majesty did once declare, how sensi∣ble he was of the inconvenience of being advised by private Cabals, and seemed resolved to dismiss them, and from that time forward to advise with his Privy-Council, and in cases extraordinary with the great Council the Parliament. How he came to vary from that resolution I do not know; but I am afraid we shall not see any alteration in favour of the Protestant interest, until we see some change in that particular. For though the Duke's friends may do very well to preserve the Duke's interest, which upon all accounts is Popery, yet, I think, they are very inconsistent with the preservation of the Protestant Interest: And therefore until some alte∣ration in Council, as Parliaments have laboured in vain against Popery these two years, so I am afraid we shall now. However, Sir, I am not a∣gainst trying what strength you can make of an Association-Bill; but I am afraid, that without the Exclusion-Bill, you will find your work endless; and that one Bill will occasion another, and all prove to little purpose without it, and that you will but give your Enemies a handle to represent you amiss and get nothing.
Sir, The many discourses you have heard this day touching the strength of the Popish In∣terest at home, and how combined with foreign power, doth not so much startle me, as to see, that all the strength upon which the Protestant party must depend for security, is put into the hands of persons which are for the Duke's interest, which we have rea∣son to understand to be the same with Popery; not a person being imployed in any place of Command or Trust, that ever declared against that interest.
If I be mistaken in what I say, I desire to be cor∣rected; I speak according to the best information I could have, and I believe all here know, what an exact scrutiny there hath been often made in all Countries and Corporations, for the finding out of men that way inclined, or otherways so quali∣fied, as are not fit to make any opposition to the de∣signs carried on by the Popish party. And if by chance any is put in, not fettered either by opi∣nion or interest to that party, upon the first ap∣pearance he is presently discharged, as if he were a Traitor to his Country. And now after a long interval of Parliaments, and more and more dis∣coveries of the reality and danger of the Popish Plot, not only here, but in Ireland, and of the ma∣ny contrivances of that party to stifle new Evi∣dence, and to corrupt and discourage the old, of the certain ruine of the Protestant Religion from a Popish Successor and Popish King, what remedies are we like to obtain this Session? I am afraid very few or none: for I must confess, I am still of opinion, there can be none without the Exclusion-bill, which the Lords have thrown out without so much as a Conference, and therefore I am afraid, that what the Witnesses have said, they were told by several Jesuits is true; That Popery was so clen∣ched and rivetted, that it did not lie in the power of God nor man to prevent the setling of it in this Na∣tion. And if we consider what an interest that Party hath now at present, and how things are prepared to afford them a greater assistance here∣after; how a Popish King, as well as our Divisions and Animosities will contribute to it, though I hope God will make them Lyars, yet I conclude, they have a great deal of reason to be very con∣sident.
And I see not how we can help our selves, seeing there are so many Ministers of State about the King, who are as a Partition-wall between him and his People. I find in Coke's Reports, that when the Nation was in apparent danger, the Peo∣ple might go directly to the King with their Grie∣vances, and make their Complaints and Petitions known. I think we may do well to consult this Text, and see if we can find out any better way than what we have tryed already, to convey our humble Supplications to his Royal Person. In the mean time I think you had not best to go off from the Bill of Association; for which we have a Presi∣dent in Queen Elizabeth's time, first made by the Gentry, and afterwards confirm'd by Act of Parlia∣ment.
Sir, I would not discourage you from go∣ing on with these Bills; but I am afraid they will fall far short of the power and strength that will be necessary to root out an Interest that hath been a∣bove one hundred years rivetting it self by all arts and ways imaginable, and hath now fixt it self so near the Throne. I must confess, I am afraid we are at labour in vain, and that this Interest hath so clench'd it self (as the Jesuits term it) that it will break not only this Parliament, but many more, if not all Parliaments, and the Protestant Religion too. It is too weighty to be removed, or perver∣ted, by such little Bills as these: No, Sir, you will find, that nothing less than a firm Ʋnion amongst all the Protestants in this Nation, can be sufficient to give any check to this Interest. As long as there are a∣mongst us so many persons as know not rightly how to apply the dangers of the Church and State, nor the miseries of Forty One, but will be lead by
Popish Projectors; I am afraid such Bills as these will not do our business: Because they will not de∣stroy that footing which they have at Court, nor strengthen the Protestant Interest, which must have its original from Union. It is strange, that none but those who are for the Duke's interest, should be the only persons thought sit to be in places of trust! It is so strange a way to preserve the Protestant Church and Religion, that it raiseth with me a doubt, whe∣ther any such thing be designed. Such persons may be proper to manage Affairs in favour of the Po∣pish interest; but it is to be admired, that they, and they only, should be thought fit to be intru∣sted with the Protestant interest. I think it as hard for them to do it, as to serve two Masters. It is not usual in other Countries to retain their Ene∣mies in the Government, nor such as are Friends to their Enemies; and it is strange that we, of all other Nations, should fall into this piece of Policy▪ But, Sir, for these reasons you may conclude, that unless what Laws you make, be strong and well penn'd, they will signifie nothing against so power∣ful a Party as you have to do with.
Sir, Though it plainly appear by what hath been said upon this Debate, that the Protestant Religion is in a dangerous condition, yet when I consider how strangely God's providence hath hi∣therto helpt us, and defeated all the wicked Stra∣tagems of this Party; I cannot dispair. Notwith∣standing the breaking of the Triple League, the Dutch War 1672. and the Assistance given the French, the Protestants abroad are not all destroy∣ed: Neither by their firing of London, endeavours to corrupt Parliaments, and contrivances against the King's life, have they yet destroyed all at home.
And as I doubt not but the King is willing to se∣cure the Protestant Religion to us and our Poste∣rities, so I hope he will hearken to us, and grant such Laws as may be necessary for the securing of it, he being most concerned therein. And there∣fore I hope, that at last he will concurr in such Laws as we shall propose for that end, or contrive bet∣ter.
Sir, there hath been so much said al∣ready upon the Subject-matter of this Debate, that I shall have little occasion to trouble you long. The worthy Member that spoke a while since, hath shewed you from whence our fears of Popery arise, from the dependance they have of assistance from France, Ireland and Scotland in case there should be a Popish King, besides the Party they have here, and the advantage they will have by the Government, which is already secured for that Interest; and of it self would be sufficient to con∣test with the Protestant interest, who in such a case would have no King to head them, no per∣sons in any place of Trust to execute any Laws in their behalf, nor no legal power to defend them∣selves. And therefore, seeing there is a Negative pass'd upon the Bill, we had contrived to secure us from these great dangers, I think, Sir, we may do well to try if we can get any thing else. But I am perswaded if this Association-bill be made as it should be, that we shall have no better success with it than we had with the Exclusion-bill: For I am afraid, that though we are permitted to bran∣dish our Weapons, yet that we shall not be allowed to wound Popery; but rather do believe, that they which advised the throwing out of that Bill, will also do the same by this, or dissolve the House
before it come to perfection: For this Bill must be much stronger than that in Queen▪ Elizabeth's days; that was for an Association only after her death, but I cannot tell if such a Bill will secure us now, the circumstances we are under being ve∣ry different. In Queen Elizabeth's days the Privy-Councellors were all for the Queen's Interest, and none for the Successors; now most of the Privy-Councellors are for the Successors, and few for the King's. Then the Ministers unanimously agreed to keep out Popery, now we have too much reason to fear, there are many that are for bringing it in. In those days they all agreed to keep the Popish Suc∣cessor in Scotland, now the Major part agree to keep the Successor here; all which must be considered in drawing up of the Bill.
Resolved, That it is the opinion of this Committee, that the House be moved, that a Bill be brought in for an Association of all his Majesty's Protestant Sub∣jects, for the safety of his Majesty's person, the de∣fence of the Protestant Religion, and the preserva∣tion of his Majesty's Protestant Subjects, against all Invasions and Oppositions; and for preventing the Duke of York, or any other Papist, from succeeding to the Crown.