An exact collection of the debates of the House of Commons, held at Westminster, October 21, 1680 prorogued the tenth, and dissolved the eighteeth of January following : with the debates of the House of Commons at Oxford, assembled March 21, 1680 : also a just and modest vindication of the proceedings of the said Parliaments.

The Eleventh of November, 1680.

SIr William Jones reports from the Committee appointed to draw up an Address to His Majesty, upon the Debate of the House, in An∣swer to His Majesties Gracious Message; which he read in his Place, and afterwards delivered the same at the Clerks Table; where being read a∣gain, was upon the Question agreed to by the House.

The Address to His Majesty, from the Commons.

May it please Your most Excellent Majesty,

WE Your Majesties most Loyal and Obe∣dient Subjects, the Commons in this present Parliament assembled, having taken in our most serious Consideration Your Maje∣sties Gracious Message, brought unto us the Ninth day of this Instant November, by Mr. Se∣cretary Jenkins, do with all thankfulness ac∣knowledge Your Majesties Care and Goodness, in inviting us to expedite such Matters as are depending before us relating to Popery and the Plot. And we do, in all humility, represent to Your Majesty, that we are fully convinced, that it is highly incumbent▪ upon us, in discharge both of our Duty to Your Majesty, and of that great

Trust reposed in us by those whom we represent, to endeavour, by the most speedy and effectual ways, the Suppression of Popery within this Your Kingdom, and the bringing to Publick Justice all such as shall be found Guilty of the Horrid and Damnable Popish Plot. And though the time of our Sitting (abating what must ne∣cessarily be spent in the chusing and presenting a Speaker, appointing Grand Committees, and in taking the Oaths and Tests enjoyned by Act of Parliament) hath not much exceeded a Fort∣night, yet we have in this time not onely made a considerable Progress in some things which to us seem, and (when presented to your Ma∣jesty in a Parliamentary way) will, we trust, appear to Your Majesty to be absolutely neces∣sary for the Safety of Your Majesties Person, the effectual Suppression of Popery, and the Security of the Religion, Lives, and Estates of Your Majesties Protestant Subjects: But even in relation to the Tryals of the Five Lords im∣peached in Parliament for the execrable Popish Plot, we have so far proceeded, as we doubt not but in a short time we shall be ready for the same. But we cannot (without being unfaithful to Your Majesty, and to our Countrey, by whom we are intrusted) omit, upon this occasion, hum∣bly to inform Your Majesty, That our Difficul∣ties, even as to these Tryals, are much encrea∣sed by the evil and destructive Counsels of those Persons who advised Your Majesty, first, to the Prorogation, and then, to the Dissolution of the last Parliament, at a time when the Com∣mons had taken great pains about, and were prepared for those Tryals. And by the like

pernicious Counsels of those who advised the many and long Prorogations of the present Parliament, before the same was permitted to sit; whereby some of the Evidence which was prepared in the last Parliament may possibly (during so long an Interval) be forgotten or lost, and some Persons, who might probably have come in as Witnesses, are either dead, have been taken off, or may have been discouraged from giving their Evidence. But of one mis∣chievous Consequence of those dangerous and unhappy Counsels we are certainly and sadly sensible, namely, That the Testimony of a ma∣terial Witness against every of those Five Lords (and who could probably have discovered and brought in much other Evidence about the Plot in general, and those Lords in particular) can∣not now be given viva voce; forasmuch as that Witness is unfortunately dead between the Cal∣ling and the Sitting of this Parliament. To pre∣vent the like, or greater Inconveniencies for the future, we make it our most humble Request to Your Excellent Majesty, That, as You tender the Safety of Your Royal Person, the security of Your Loyal Subjects, and the Preservation of the true Protestant Religion, you will not suf∣fer your self to be prevailed upon by the like Counsels, to do any thing which may occasion in Consequence (though we are assured never with Your Majesties Intention) either the defer∣ring of a full and perfect Discovery and Exami∣nation of this most wicked and detestable Plot, or the preventing the Conspirators therein from being brought to speedy and exemplary Justice and Punishment. And we humbly be∣seech

Your Majesty to rest assured, (notwith∣standing any Suggestions which may be made by Persons, who, for their own wicked purposes, contrive to create a Distrust in Your Majesty of Your People,) That nothing is more in the Desires, and shall be more the Endeavours of us, Your faithful and loyal Commons, than the promoting and advancing of Your Majesties true Happiness and Greatness.

G. V.

Mr. Speaker,

Sir, I hope this Address will satisfie his Majesty that this House hath not been neg∣ligent in the prosecution of the Plot and Po∣pery, and that it will create in his Majesty a good opinion of our proceedings, that so we may not meet with any interruption in the per∣fecting of those Bills which are necessary for the good of the King and Kingdom, and may have the Glory of having been instrumental in accomplishing that security which the Nation so much desires in point of Religion, and in making his Majesties Government not only more easie to him, but so formidable as that he may become a terror to his Enemies, and in a capacity to give Assistance to his Friends both at home and abroad; and if possible so reconcile all divisions as that there may be no distinction but of Papists and Protestants, nor of that neither, if there could be a way found out to prevent it. For I know this House wants nothing but opportunity to express their Loyal∣ty to the King, and love to the Protestant Re∣ligion and their Country; but I am afraid that all our endeavours will prove ineffectual, un∣less

we can remove from his Majesty all Coun∣cellors that advise him, in favour of the Popish Interest, and such as influence him in favour of that Party. I do not mean little ones, but such as by experience we had found, have in the time of our greatest danger exercised a kind of uncontroulable Power. The Witnesses which you have heard this day at the Bar, as to the wicked Plot of the Papists in Ireland, and in what a dangerous Condition the poor Pro∣testants are there, how exceeded in Numbers by their Enemies, and deserted by their Friends, added to the Evidence we have of the Plot in England, hath given to me a new prospect of the deplorable condition we are in, and therefore, although it be a little late in the day seeing here is a full House, and of such Persons as I believe will never think any thing too much, that is so necessary for the good of their King and Country. I hope you will not think it unsea∣sonable, that I should now move you, that the ingrossed Bill, for disinheriting James Duke of York be read.

The Bill amended as the House had or∣der'd, was read, Intituled, An Act for securing of the Protestant Religion, by disabling James Duke of York, to in∣herit the Imperial Crown of England and Ireland, and the Dominions and Territories thereunto belonging.

WHEREAS James Duke of York is no∣toriously known to have been perverted from the Protestant to the Popish Religion; where∣by

not only great encouragement hath been given to the Popish Party to enter into, and carry on most Devilish and Horrid Plots and Conspiracies for the Destruction of his Majesties Sacred Person and Government, and for the Extirpation of the True Protestant Religion▪ But also if the said Duke should succeed to the Imperial Crown of this Realm, no∣thing is more manifest than that a Total Change of Religion within these Kingdoms would ensue. For the prevention whereof, Be it Enacted by the King's Most Excellent Majesty, by, and with the Advice and Consent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and the Commons in this present Par∣liament Assembled, and by the Authority of the same, That the said James Duke of York shall be, and is by the Authority of this present Parliament Exclu∣ded, and made for ever uncapable to Inherit, Pos∣sess, or Enjoy the Imperial Crown of this Realm, and of the Kingdoms of Ireland, and the Domini∣ons and Territories to them, or either of them be∣longing, or to have, exercise or enjoy any Domini∣on, Power, Jurisdiction or Authority in the same Kingdoms, Dominions, or any of them. And be it further Enacted by the Authority aforesaid, That if the said James Duke of York shall at any time hereafter, challenge, claim, or attempt to possess, or enjoy, or shall take upon him to use or exercise any Dominion, Power, or Authority, or Jurisdiction with∣in the said Kingdoms, or Dominions, or any of them, as King or Chief Magistrate of the same; That then he the said James Duke of York, for every such of∣fence, shall be deemed and adjudged guilty of High Treason; and shall suffer the pains, penalties and for∣feitures, as in case of High Treason: And further, That if any Persons or Person whatsoever shall assist,

or maintain, abet, or willingly adhere unto the said James Duke of York, in such challenge, claim or attempt; or shall of themselves attempt, or endea∣vour to put or bring the said James Duke of York into the possession, or Exercise of any Regal Power, Jurisdiction or Authority within the Kingdoms and Dominions aforesaid, or shall by Writing or Preach∣ing advisedly publish, maintain or declare, That he hath any Right, Title, or Authority to the Office of King or Chief Magistrate of the Kingdoms and Do∣minions aforesaid, That then every such Person shall be deemed and adjudged guilty of High Treason; and that he suffer and undergo the pains, penalties and for∣feitures aforesaid.

And be it further Enacted, by the Authority aforesaid, That he the said James Duke of York shall not at any time, from and after the 5th. of November 1680. return, or come into or within any of the Kingdoms or Dominions aforesaid: And then he the said James Duke of York, shall be deemed and adjudged guilty of High Treason, and shall suffer the pains, penalties and forfeitures, as in case of High Treason; and further, That if any Person or Persons whatsoever shall be aiding or assisting unto such return of the said James Duke of York, that then every such Person shall be deemed and adjudged guilty of High Treason; and shall suffer as in Cases of High Treason.

And be it further Enacted, by the Authority aforesaid, That he the said James Duke of York, or any other Person being guilty of any of the Trea∣sons aforesaid, shall not be capable of, or receive bene∣fit by any Pardon, otherwise than by Act of Parlia∣ment, wherein they shall be particularly named; and that no Noli prosequi, or Order for stay of Proceed∣ings

shall be received or allowed in, or upon any In∣dictment for any of the offences mentioned in this Act.

And be it further Enacted and declared; and it is hereby Enacted and Declared, that it shall, and may be lawful to, and for any Magistrates, Of∣ficers and other Subject whatsoever of these King∣doms and Dominions aforesaid; and they are hereby enjoyned and required to apprehend and secure the said James Duke of York, and every other per∣son offending in any of the premises, and with him or them in case of resistance to fight; and him or them by force to subdue: For all which actions, and for so doing, they are, and shall be by vertue of this Act saved harmless and indemnified.

Provided, and it is hereby declared that nothing in this Act contained, shall be construed, deemed or adjudged to disenable any other person from inherit∣ing and enjoying the Imperial Crown of the Realms and Dominions aforesaid; (other than the said James Duke of York) But that in case the said James Duke of York should survive his now Majesty, and the Heirs of his Majesty's Body; The said Impe∣rial Crown shall desend to, and be enjoyed by such person or persons successorily during the Life of the said James Duke of York as should have inherited and enjoyed the same in case the said James Duke of York, were naturally dead, any thing contained in this Act to the contrary notwithstanding.

And be it further Enacted, by the Authority a∣foresaid, that during the Life of the said James Duke of York, This Act shall be given in charge at every Assizes and General Sessions of the Peace within the Kingdoms, Dominions and Territories afore∣said; and also shall be openly read in every Cathe∣dral

Church, and Parish Church, and Chapples within the aforesaid Kingdoms, Dominions and Ter∣tories, by the several respective Parsons, Vicars, Curates and Readers thereof, who are hereby required immedi∣ately after Divine Service in the Fore-noon to read the same twice in every year, that is to say, on the 25th. of December, and upon Easter-day, during the Life of the said James Duke of York.

Sir L. J.

Mr. Speaker,

Sir, this great business cannot be too well considered, before you come to a final Resolution therein, I will not now offer you any prudential arguments against this Bill, be∣cause I did offer several at the last reading; but Sir, I would desire you to consider, that this Prince is Brother to our present King, and Son to our late pious King Charles the First; for whose memory this Nation hath a great venera∣tion, that this Prince is enricht with Excellent Endownments, which he hath imployed in the Service of this Nation, by fighting our Battels and defending us from the oppression of our Ene∣mies, and is only Guilty of this one Crime which I hope upon a mature deliberation will not deserve so great a condemnation. Sir, I know it is usual for this House to proceed in Affairs of less importance, with all the Calmness, Justice, and Prudence that can be imagin'd; and therefore I hope you will be careful how you deviate from those Measures, in a business of this Nature. I would once more remember you, that there are Laws already for the pu∣nishment of the Crimes he is accused of, and therefore humbly conceive you ought not to

chastise him, by making a new Law, especially with that severity which is by this Bill now in∣tended, before any hearing.

Sir, for my part I have taken the Oath of Al∣legiance, and think my self thereby bound to him as Heir, until it please God that his Majesty have Children. I know of no Power on Earth, that can dispence with my Oath, and therefore I cannot (so much as by being silent) give my consent to this Bill, lest I therein wrong my Conscience, seeing I have the Honour to be a Member of this House.

I do not doubt but most here have a great esteem for the Church of England, as Members thereof: I could wish they would consider what a great blow this Bill will give to our Religion, and to our Church. To disinherit a Prince, for no other Cause, but for being of a different Opi∣nion in some Points of Faith, is, I think, quite contrary to the Principles of the Religion we profess, and also to the established Laws of this Land. And if such an Act, when made, should be of any validity, I do conclude, that you will thereby change the Constitution of this Monar∣chy, and make it in a manner Elective; and therefore I humbly move you that the Bill may be thrown out.

Sir R. M.

Mr. Speaker,

Sir, I desire leave to offer some Ob∣jections, which, in my opinion, do justly arise against this Bill. I think there ought to be a Proviso, That if the Duke should turn Protestant, that then the Bill should be void, and he not exclu∣ded from his Right; that so we may not leave him without some temptation to return to the Pro∣testant

Religion. And, Sir, I think there ought to be a Proviso, That in case the Duke should have a Son, after either of his Daughters (if it should be their fortune) have ascended the Throne, for the reserving of him a Right. For, there is a possibility, that, if the Duke should out∣live the King, he may have a Son, after that his Daughters, by vertue of this Act, may have taken the Crown. I suppose, that as there is no intent to chastise the Daughters for the Fa∣thers sake, so not the Son; and therefore I hum∣bly move you, that some Proviso may be added, to secure him his Right, if any such thing should happen.

W.

Mr. Speaker,

Sir, The Honourable Member that spoke before made large Encomiums on the Duke, ex∣tolling his Endownments, and Services to the Na∣tion. For my part, I think, that the better qua∣lified he is, the greater is our Danger. But as to what he said, of having fought our Battels, and done great things for the Nation, I think he hath not done fairly by the House; for he should also have told us, how the Triple League was broke, and my Lord of Sandwich lost his Life; how he changed his Religion, and hath ever since encouraged Popery, and assisted that Interest; how the City of London was burnt, and the Actors dis∣charged; how the Discovery of the Popish Plot was prevented as much as it could be, and the Presbyterian one encouraged; that so we might have all afore us.

He was going on more severely, but was inter∣rupted.

L. H.

Mr. Speaker,

Sir, Although it hath been said, That no good Protestant can speak against this Bill; yet, Sir, I cannot forbear to offer some Objecti∣ons against it. I do not know that any of the King's Murderers were condemn'd without being heard; and must we deal thus with the Brother of our King? It is such a severe way of Pro∣ceeding, that I think we cannot answer it to the World; and therefore it would consist much better with the Justice of the House to Impeach him, and Try him, in a Formal way, and then cut off his Head, if he deserve it. I will not offer to dispute the Power of Parliaments; but I question whether this Law, if made, would be good in it self. Some Laws have a Natural Weakness with them; I think that by which the old Long Parliament carried on their Rebellion, was judged afterward void in Law, because there was a Power given, which could not be taken from the Crown. For ought I know, when you have made this Law, it may have the same Flaw in it: If not, I am confident there are a Loyal Party, which will never obey, but will think themselves bound by their Oath of Allegi∣ance and Duty to pay Obedience to the Duke, if ever he should come to be King, which must occasion a Civil War. And, Sir, I do not find that the Proviso that was ordered to be added for the Security of the Duke's Children, is made strong enough to secure them, according to the Debate of the House, it being liable to many Objections, and the more, because the Words Presumptive Heir of the Crown are industriously left out, though much insisted on when debated

here in the House. Upon the whole matter, my humble Motion is, that the Bill may be thrown out.

Sir W. J.

Mr. Speaker,

Sir, I am very unfit to speak in this place, being a Member but of yesterday; but I will rather adventure to draw a Censure on my self, than be wanting to serve my Country (see∣ing they have called me hither) in Business of so great importance, I think as great as ever was debated in a House of Commons. I can truly affirm, that I have a great respect for the Duke of York; and therefore, as well as for the preservation of the Protestant Religion, I am for this Bill. For, I take it for granted, That it is impossible that a Papist should come to the Pos∣session and quiet Enjoyment of this Crown, without wading through a Sea of Blood, and occasioning such a War as may, for ought I know, shake the Monar∣chical Government of this Nation, and thereby not only endanger himself, but his Children too. For no man can foresee what may be the end of such a War, nor what Miseries it may bring on the Nation: But, in all probability, it may prove the deepest Tragedy that ever was acted on this great Theatre. For, it cannot be imagin'd, that the great Body of Protestants which are in this Nation will tamely submit to the Popish Yoak, which they will in time see must be the consequence of sub∣mitting to a Popish King, without some strugling. And Wars begun upon the score of Religion are generally attended with more fatal and bloody Consequents than other Wars; and this may exceed all others that ever yet were made. And I see no way to prevent it, but by passing

this Bill, which, so long as it excludes onely him, and secures the Crown to his Children, is, I think, (as the case stands) the greatest Kind∣ness we can do him.

Sir, I do much admire to hear some Honoura∣ble and Learned Members say, That this Bill is against Natural Justice, because it condemns a Man before he is heard; and that it is too severe a Condemnation; that it is against the Oath of Allegiance, and Principles of our Religion; that it will be a scandal to our Church, to ex∣clude a Man of his Right for his Opinion in Re∣ligion; that it is a Law that will be void in it self, and that there are a Loyal Party will never obey it; that it will make the Crown Elective, and occasion a Civil War; and that the Proviso as to the Dukes Children is not strong enough, because the Word Presumptive Heir is left out.

Sir, The first Objection I think is a great mi∣stake; for this Bill is not intended as a Condem∣nation to the Duke, but a Security to our selves; and is so far from being against Natural Justice, that the Passing of it is agreeable to the very Foundation not onely of Natural Justice, but Natural Religion too, the Safety of the King and Kingdom depending thereon, which according to the Rules of Justice and Religion we are bound to use our endeavour to pre∣serve, before any one Mans Interest. That about the Oath of Allegiance, I do a little admire at; for, it is the first time I ever heard that Oath pleaded in favour of Popery. I have often times had occasion to scan the meaning of that Oath, but never found it extended to the Successor du∣ring the Kings Life, and therefore no need of any Dispensation in that point. And I cannot under∣stand

how it can be any scandal as to our Church or Religion, if by Church be meant our Protestant Church. Can our Church or Church-men be scandalized, because we endeavour to secure our selves against Popery by all lawful Means? I ra∣ther think the very Supposition a high Reflection on our Church-men, as rendring them willing to let in Popery, which I am confident they are not. As to what is said, That the Law will be void in it self, and that there will be a Loyal Party that will never obey it, and that it will occasion a Civil War; I must confess these are strange Arguments to me: For, to doubt that the Legislative Power of the Nation, King, Lords, and Commons, cannot make Laws that shall bind any, or all the Subjects of this Nation, is to suppose there is such a Weakness in the Government, as must infallibly occasion its Ruine. And therefore I am of opini∣on, that what Laws you make in this case, will carry as much Right and Strength with them, not only now, but after the Kings death, as any Law whatsoever. And how then can there be a Loyal Party that will not acquiesce therein, unless the Word Loyal have some other Signifi∣cation than I know of? I take it to be a Di∣stinction that can onely be given to such as obey Laws; and I think we need not doubt, but if once this Law were pass'd, there would be Prote∣stants enough, whose Interest it would be to defend it, that would compel an Obedience to it. And we have much more reason to fear a Civil War without it, than with it; For, if we can get this Bill, we may be thereby so united, and enabled to defend our selves, as that the Popish Party may never have the Confidence to attempt us; but without it we shall not

be in any capacity to defend our selves, which above all things may encourage a Civil War. As to the Proviso for securing the Right of the Duke's Children, if it be not strong enough, I am rea∣dy to give my Vote it should be stronger; but I take it to be a full and comprehensive as can be made; at least, I take the leaving out the Words Presumptive Heir to the Crown, to be no Objection against it: For, there is no such Word in our Law-Books, nor no such Term in treating of the Succession; and therefore I hope you will be careful how you make a President in that Case.

And, Sir, as I do not find there is any weight in the Arguments that have been made against this Bill, so I think that if the pre∣servation of our King, our Government, our Lives and our Religion, be things of moment, that there is much to be said for it. For al▪ though the malignity of men, cannot deface his Majesties goodness, yet by assisting the Po∣pish faction, they have spoilt the beautiful face of the best Government in the World; by breaking that good Correspondence that there ought to be between the King and his People, by dividing us in points of Religion, and by being the cause of just jealousies and fear. By which his Majesty is reduced to great difficul∣ties and trouble, in the administration of his Regal authority, and the Credit Peace and Tranquility of the Nation almost irrecover∣ably lost. As to all which, the art of Man cannot find out any remedy as long as there is a Popish Successor, and the fears of a Po∣pish King, and therefore I humbly move you this Bill may pass.

Sir F. W.

Mr. Speaker,

Sir, the Arguments that have been used against this Bill, may be very excellent to lull us into a fatal security, by possessing us with opinions that there is no need of taking so much care about Popery, or that we ought not to oppose it, or that it will be to no purpose, because we have no power to hinder it. But I do not see what weight they have in them, grounded on any other consideration, to hinder the passing of this Bill. Rather for the same reason, that such Argu∣ments, as these, are here offered against this Bill, and such endeavours used abroad to re∣concile the People to have a berter opinion of Popery than formerly, I think we ought to be the more zealous for this Bill, because nothing can give a greater encouragement and assistance to Popery than the growth of such opinions, nor prevent their design who are industrious to in∣fuse them, than the passing of this Bill. Who∣ever will consider how this Monarchy hath declined in grandeur honour and reputation a∣broad, by the destruction of our Navy in 1666. and the little appearance we have ever since made of being able to be formidable at Sea, but above all, our Ministers double dealing in the making of alliances, or performing of them, (in order to keep up our interest with France) How from being Umpire to all this part of the World, according to that advantage which we have by our Situation, we are become the despicablest Nation in Europe. How the Go∣vernment is weakned at home not only by fears and jealousies, but by the debaucheries and devisions which have been promoted amongst

our people; how narrowly we escaped ruine when the City of London was Burnt, as well as when the Toleration came out, and the Army was at Black-heath, as lately by the hor∣rid Plot if it had not been discovered; how there his nothing stands between us and death, but the Kings life; and how all these dangers past and present, do arise from Popery; and how impossible it is, it should be otherwise as long as there is a Popish Successor: may justly admire there should be any arguments offered in this place to lessen our care for preventing the growth and power of Popery. I cannot tell how these learned Members un∣derstand natural Justice, but I am of that Opini∣on, That self preservation, and the preservation of our Religion, and life of our King by all lawful ways, is very agreeable to natural Justice. And I do admire to hear such a construction made of the Oath of Allegiance, that it binds all persons to the next Heir as well as to the King. For it is a most dangerous Maxim, and may be of ill consequence, if ever the next Heir of the Crown should make a Rebellion, for he may thereby challenge Allegiance from the People as well as the King, which may be of pernici∣ous consequence. And I do not see wherein our Church or Religion can be scandalized by this Bill. For we do not Disinherit this Prince for his Religion, but to save our own, and to prevent the manifest ruine of the Nation. And therefore I think it is a kindness to the Church above all Acts whatsoever; because the only way to preserve it, I mean the Protestant Church. And those objections that have been

made against the lawfulness and validity of this Act, do not weigh with me, but notwith∣standing what hath been said, do believe it will be as good in law, if once it be past, and will be as well observed too as any Act what∣soever. The King hath his Right from God, and as Supreme is accountable to none, his person sacred, and by our Laws can do no wrong. If we should give all these qualifi∣cations to a Successour, as hath been in some measure insinuated, it would make a strange confusion in the Government. Life it self, to which a Man hath as much Right, as any Successor can pretend to have to the Crown, is taken away upon some forfeitures for the publick good. And as there may be a forfei∣ture of Life so there may be a forfeiture of a Right to the Succession. And to doubt that there is not an unlimited uncontrollable power resi∣ding somewhere in all Governments, to re∣medy the exigences that may happen, is to suppose there is such weakness in this or any other Government, as that it must fall when a powerful faction shall endeavour it. In this Nation, this Power, is in the King, Lords, and Commons, and I hope they will make use of it to preserve the Government upon this occasion. And I do not doubt, but if the Bill pass, all will obey it heartily that wish well to the Protestant Religion. I am afraid some Ministers of State place their safety in Com∣mon ruine, or otherwise the setling of this affair, would not have been so long delayed and opposed as it hath been. Hath there not been contrived and practised, and is there not

still threatned the greatest and certainest ruine to this Nation, by this business of the Duke, that ever was yet projected, and must we be more stupifyed than our Ancestors? Doth not the Act of the Thirteenth of Queen Elizabeth make it Treason, for any man to say, that the Par∣liament cannot alter the Succession? And in Henry the Eighth's time, was not the right of Succession changed and rechanged by Act of Parliament? He then instanced several presi∣dents, how the Succession had been setled and altered by Acts of Parliament, since William the Conquerour's time, and concluded with a motion, for the passing of the Bill.

Col. L.

Mr. Speaker,

Sir, It is my misfortune to lie un∣der the disreputation of being a Papist, but have now an Opportunity of shewing my self o∣therwise, in declaring that I am against this Bill, for I think there is none but Papists that are of Opinion, that a man may be disinherited for his Religion. I have also an opportunity to shew my duty to my Master, in declaring that those reproaches which have been cast upon him, are in my opinion very unjust, because I believe he abhors the thoughts of doing those Actions that have been imputed to him, and therefore do think it very hard, that because he may differ with us in points of Religion, that there∣fore his reputation should thus be called in question in this House. Sir, I cannot enter into a dispute with that worthy Member that spoke last, as to the presidents he hath men∣tioned, because I know he is very learned in the Law, and the understanding of such things

belongs more particularly to such as have had that education; but I humbly offer it to the consi∣deration of the House, whether or no, if our English Histories be true, most of those prece∣dents were not accompanied with bloud and misery? And I am of opinion, that if this disin∣heriting Bill should pass, it will not have bet∣ter success. I cannot doubt but that this House is for keeping up the Monarchical Government of this Nation, we all know how the balance hath been altered by Henry the 7th's lessening the Peers, and Henry the 8th's destroying the Church, and by the Sale of the Crown-Lands. I pray Sir, let us have a care, how we give a greater blow than all this, by making the Crown Ele∣ctive. The King lost his Father by one Rebel∣lion. I know this House would not willingly be the cause of losing his Brother by another, which I am afraid this Bill, if it should pass, will occasion hereafter, especially if we name no Successour, for which I am the more sorry be∣cause I do not know for whom to draw my Sword.

Sir H. C.

Mr. Speaker,

Sir, I do observe, and am glad to see it, that all that have spoken in this business pro or con, seem to agree, that we ought to do all we can to preserve the present Government, and prevent a Civil War, but we differ about the way; some think that this Bill is the only way, and others are of a contrary opinion, I cannot tell for what good reason. For there being nothing intended by this Bill, but the Exclusion of the Duke only, in order to prevent the great dan∣gers we lie under by reason of his great influ∣ence

at Court at present, and those we fear, if ever a Popish King should ascend the Throne. There being nothing in the Bill that tends any ways to prejudice the next Heir, it cannot in my poor opinion weaken, much less tend to alter the present Government, or be any prejudice to the Royal Family, more than in the Exclusion of this one Person intended by the Bill. From whom there can be no fear of a Civil War un∣less we should imagine that the people of this Nation, when they have a Law, upon the ob∣servation and execution whereof, their Lives, Liberties and Religion depend, they should be so great Brutes as not to value themselves there∣on, but rather imbrace a blind superstitious Re∣ligion, and submit to all the Slavery imaginable. We may as well think that after the King's de∣cease, the people will be willing to submit to the Government and pretended Authority of the Pope himself, though they should be never so well able to defend themselves. The worthy Mem∣ber that spoke last, did in a manner affirm, that all the Precedents that have been mention'd as to the setling of the Succession of the Crown by Act of Parliament, have been accompani∣ed with Bloud. If he would but take the pains to peruse the Histories of England, I think he—would be of another opinion. But I am sure, none ever equalized the short Reign of Queen Mary. The Barbarities which were exercised in her Reign, by Fire and Faggot, may be put into the balance with all the incon∣veniencies that ever happened by any Exclusion-Act. But Sir, if it had been so, which I utter∣ly deny, it would not have signified much as to

our case, for in those days matter of Right was always so confounded (I mean as to the under∣standing of the people) by the many Arguments that were imposed on them by each Party, that neither point of Right, nor any consideration as to any thing of Interest, came fairly before them. Whether A. or B. should be King, was their only question, without being loaden with any difficulties, as to which the Common and Major part of the people in those days might probably be very indifferent. And yet, Sir, up∣on a full Examination, it will be found that most of those Acts of Parliament touching the Succession, had the effect they were designed for, and did serve as Expedients, to prevent those miseries, which were feared and were the occasion of them. But, Sir, the case will be now much otherways, if ever you should be so unfortunate, as that the Duke should out live the King, and you should come to try the strength of this Exclusion-Bill: For the question in this Case will not be only whether A. which is Ex∣cluded, or B. which is the next Heir shall accor∣ding to this Act be King, but whether it shall be a Papist, or a Protestant. Upon which it will plainly appear, the safety of their Estates, Lives and Religion doth depend. Sir, I have heard and read of strange things done by Popish Mira∣cles, and I must confess, Sir, I have seen much of it, even amongst many, that pretend to be good Pro∣testants, since the Plot broke out, I mean as to their believing any thing against Popery. If some such Omnipotent Power, should hereafter over-rule in such a conjunction, haply this Bill if it should pass into an Act, may be slighted and neglect∣ed,

but otherways I humbly conceive it cannot be presumed, that the Protestants should omit to make use of it to save themselves from Po∣pery and Slavery; which would be the conse∣quence thereof; and thereby not only prevent a Civil War, but support the Government e∣stablisht in the right Line. The truth is, Sir, the most material Observation that I can make of the Arguments against this Bill, is, that it is thought too good for us, and that it may probably be effectual for the securing of the Protestant Religion. And I am afraid, Sir, that this is the fatal Consideration, that hath prevailed with some to advise the King not to grant it. If we consider how all other Laws which have been hitherto made against the Duke have been defeated, we may with some reason fear the like success of all others that shall be made, unless you can do something that may tend to changing of the Interest, which can never be done without this Bill. We have a great many old Laws against Papists, but I did never hear that any thing was done by virtue of them that ever prejudiced the Duke; it was once attempted by a presentment made by a Grand Jury. The success was, that a known material Law of the Land must be broken by an extrajudicial discharge of the Jury, rather than the Law against him should have any Ef∣fect. There was a Law not long since made, obliging all Persons that held or executed any Office, to take the Transubstantiation Test; it is true, the Duke was so brave Spirited as not to dissemble and take the Test, though haply was earnestly prest with a dispensation. Yet hath not that Law had any effect in favour of

the Protestant Religion, for though the Duke hath not since acted in his Offices by himself, he put in, as his Deputies, Persons of so much Gratitude as have in all things followed his di∣rections. So that as to himself, the Act hath not proved of any force. There was another Act lately made which was intended chiefly against him; I mean that of Excluding Papists from sitting in either House, there he got himself fairly excepted by name. Now we would secure our Religion by another Bill against him. I find it meets with opposition here, what it may meet with elsewhere I cannot tell. But if such be his Power under a Protestant King, what may we not justly fear if he should come to be King him∣self? I think nothing less than Popery, Misery and Slavery, from which we can never be saved but by having this Bill, and therefore I humbly move you that this Bill may pass.

D. F.

Mr. Speaker,

Sir, I will not say that Acts of Parlia∣ment cannot dispose of the Succession, because it was made Treason by a Statute in the 13th. of Elizabeth, which I do not remember was ever repealed. But I will deny that the Kings of Eng∣land Rule by virtue of any Statute-Law, as was suggested, for their Right is by so ancient a proscription as that it may justly be said to be from God alone, and that no Power on Earth ought to dispute it. And I am of opinion, that the Succession of the Crown is inseparably an∣nexed to proximity of Bloud, and therefore am not yet altered in my opinion that, if this Hill should pass into a Law, it would be of it self invalid. Which with what hath been already

said, that we cannot in Justice answer the in∣flicting of this severe Condemnation without hearing the Party concern'd; and the improba∣bility of ever attaining this Bill, doth very much weigh with me for my Opinion against this Bill. But, Sir, I think there are many doubts arise from the penning of the Bill, if the Prin∣cess of Orange should come to the Crown du∣ring the Duke's life, and the Duke should af∣terwards have a Son, must that Son lose his Right for ever? I see no provision made by this Act to save his Right, and may not that occasion as great a Civil War, between his Generation, and the Princess's Children as ever happen'd between York and Lancaster; and, Sir, I am still unsatisfied, as to that proviso about the Duke's Children, that it is not made as it ought to be, and I am afraid that in the whole matter we are gratifying France and the Papists too, by lay∣ing a stumbling block of Division even amongst Protestants themselves, and giving so great an oc∣casion for a Civil War; which I hope you will endeavour to prevent, by throwing out this Bill.

J. T.

Mr. Speaker,

Sir, I have hearkened to the objections that have been made against this Bill, which have not convinc'd me, that we want either a just cause or legal Power for the making of this Bill. If the Popish Interest be grown too strong for the Protestant, then any of these Arguments may serve, for force and Power will supply the defect of them. Otherways I think they have been so ful∣ly answered, as that there is no need more should be said about this matter; but I am sorry to see that the Protestant Religion and our Lives and

Liberties must have nothing to depend on, but the continuance of the King's Life, and the good Nature of the Popish Party afterward. And this after such demonstration as we have of the Interest of that Party in France, Scotland and Ireland, as well as here; and after a full detection of the growth of that Interest by means of the Duke's, and of the endeavours that are used to possess the Protestants with several Opinions that will tend very much to the strengthning of it, and a clear Discovery that the Plot in favour of Popery goeth on as much as ever. It hath created in me an opinion, that Popery is too strong to be subdued by Laws, and that after this King's Life, the Pro∣testant Religion must either be overcome by Popery, or defend it self by the Sword. At least I believe, that this is the Design of some men now a∣bout the King, but I hope he will at last hear∣ken to the advice of his Parliament, and pre∣vent the Nation from falling into so miserable a condition: the objection made about the Duke's Son, if he should have any, after either of his Daughters have taken possession of the Government, may in some measure be made against the course of Succession observed in all Kingdoms; if a King die leaving a Queen, the next Heir is presently proclaimed, to pre∣vent an interregnum, though there be a possibi∣lity of the Queen's being with Child, to whom the Right should in the first place belong. If any such should be born, such a setlement as is designed by this Bill, may destroy the French and Popish Interest, but can never be a grati∣fication to them; our Ancestors upon many

occasions setled and changed the Succession: Of which he gave many Instances, and concluded for the Bill.