A replye to an ansvvere made of M. Doctor VVhitgifte Against the admonition to the Parliament. By T.C.

To the. 47. and. 48. pages.

THe reason is of greater force then you woulde seeme to make it / for as the twelueth place was to Mathias / so is a certayne churche vnto a pastor or mynister / and as the Apostles ordayned none vnto that place / before it was voyde / so ought not the Byshoppe ordayne anye / vntill there be a churche voyde and destitute of a pastor. And as the Apostles ordayned not any Apostle / further then they had testimonie of the worde of God / as it appeareth that S. Peter proceedeth by that rule to the election / so ought no byshop ordayne anye to anye function / which is not in the scripture appoynted: but there are by the worde of God at thys time / no ordinarie ministeries ecclesiasticall / which be not locall / and tyed to one congregation / therefore thys sending abrode of ministers / which haue no places / is vnlawfull.

And that it may the better appeare / that those functions doe only remayne / which are appoynted to one certayne place / and that the reader may haue the clea∣rer and playner vnderstanding of all this matter / all the whole ecclesiasticall func∣tion may be well deuided: first into extraordinarie / or those that endured for a time / and into ordinarie / which are perpetuall. Of the first sorte are the Apostles and Euangelistes / which the Lord vsed for a tyme as it were for cheefe masons / and principall builders of his church / as well to lay the foundations of churches where none were / as also to aduaunce them to such forwardnesse and heighte / vntill there mighte be gotten / for the finishing of the building and house of the Church fitte pastors / elders / and deacons. And that being done / they went from those places into others / which thing may be perceiued by the continuall storie of the Actes of the Apostles / and by diuers sentences which are found in the Epi∣stles of S. Paule. And therefore also / when the churches haue beene by anti∣christ euen rased from the foundations / God hathe stirred vp Euangelistes euen immediatly by this spirite / without any calling of men / to restore hys churches a∣gayne: of whiche sorte was Maister Wickliffe in our Countrie / Maister Hus and Ierome of Prage in Bohemia / Luther and ♉winglius in Germa∣nie. &c. And after thys sorte / God maye at hys good pleasure worke / when hee purposeth to set in hys gospell in anye nation / where the whole face of the earth is couered wyth the darckenesse of ignoraunce / and wante of the knowledge of God.

Of this sort of extraordinary functions are the Prophetes also / which be∣sides a singular dexteritie and readines of expounding the scriptures / had also the gift of telling things to come / which because it is not now ordinarily / I thincke there is none wildeny / but it is an extraordinary calling: For the other two of the Apostles and Euangelistes / it shall appeare more at large hereafter (by occa∣sion geuen by maister Doctor) that they are but for a tune.

The ordinary & continual functions of the church / are also deuided into two partes / for eyther they are they that gouerne or take charge of the whole church / as are those which are called elders / or they which take charge of one part of the Churche (which is the poore of euery church) as are those which are called dea∣cons. Those agayne that are presbyteri / which we terme elders of the church / and haue to do with the whole church / are eyther those which teache and preach the word of God / and gouerne so / or else which gouerne only / and do not teach nor preach. Of the first kinde are pastors & doctore. Of the second are those / which are called by the cōmon name of elders or auncients. Of all this ordinary function I

shall haue occasion to speake / and of euery one shall appeare that (which I haue sayd before) that they are no vncertaine and vndefunte ministeries / but such as are limited vnto a certaine churche and congregation. And first of all for the pa∣stor or byshoppe whych is heere mentioned: whych name so euer we consider of them / they do forthwith as sone as they are once either spoken or thought of / im∣ply and infer a certen and definite charge / being as the Logicians terme them / actuall relatiues. For what shepheard can there be / vnles he haue a flocke? and howe can he be a watchman / vnles he haue some citie to loke vnto? Or how can a man be a master / onles he haue a seruaunt? Or a father vnles he haue a childe? Nowe if you will say that they haue a charge / and they haue flockes and cities to attende and watche vppon / for a wholo shire / or prouince / or realme / are their flockes / and their cities / and their charges.

First of all in your reading ministers that is vntrue / for they goe not to reade in all churches / but tary vntill they be hired in one. And therfore when the Bishop hath laide hys hand of them / they are no more ministers then before hys hund came vpon them / because they haue no charges / and therfore the patrone or person that hireth them to read / and setteth them a worke are their byshops / and make them ministers / and not the Bishop of the diocese.

Secondarily for those that preache to haue a whole diocese / or prouince / or realme to be their flocke / or citie to attend vpon / is contrary to the pollicy or good husbandrye of all those / that woulde eyther haue their citie safe / or their flockes sound. For who are they whych would appoynt one for the watch of a thousand townes or cities / when as all they whych loue their safetye / woulde rather haue for euery citye many watchmen / then for many cities one? or what is he that is so watchfull and circumspect / whose diligence and watchfulnes one citye assaul∣ted wyth ennemies / will not wholely occupy and take vp? or what is he whose sight is so sharpe / that he can see from one ende of y^e diocese / or prouince / or realme to the other ende thereof? or what is he that will commit the keeping of .xx. M. sheepe to one man / that loketh for any good / or encrease of them? howe shall all these heare hys whistle / howe shall all knowe his voyce / when they can not heare it? how shall they acknowledge hym / when they can not knowe hym? howe shall they folowe him / when they can not see him goe before? howe shall he heale their diseases / when he can not possibly know them. But some man wil say / that these are humaine reasons / and likelyhodes whych maye be ouerthrowne wyth other similitudes. These notwithstanding are Analogies drawne from the nature of those things whych the ministers are likened vnto / and are of the moste parte v∣sed of the holy Ghoste hym selfe expresly. But that there be no controuersy left in this poynt / what is a flocke? S. Paule defineth it plainly / when he sayeth: ap∣poynte pastors / or elders / or byshops (for these woordes are indifferently vsed) through / not euery shire / or prouince / or realme / but through euery city / or town. And least that any man should here take occasion to conclude / that then it is law∣full for one manne to be bishoppe or pastor of a whole Citie / suche as London or Yorke. &c. S. Luke in the Actes dothe declare the meaning of this place / where he sayth / that they appoynted elders throughoute euery congregation / so that if the citie or towne be great / and the professors of the gospell in it / be more then wil make conueniently a congregation / then there muste be by the rule of God more pastors and byshops. Whervpon it appeareth / that bothe no pastor or byshoppe ought to be made without there be a flocke / as it were a voyde place for him / and that a flocke is not a realme / or prouince / or dioces (as we now call a dioces) but so many as may conueniently meete in one assembly or congregation. And that thys is the meaning of S. Paule / it appeareth by the practise of the Churches from time to time / whych haue both decreed against / and found fault wyth these wandering / and rouing ministeries.

The great councell of * Calcedon decreed that no elder / or deacon / or anye other in the ecclesiasticall order shoulde be ordained apolelymenos: that is losely / and as it were let goe at randone whether he him selfe listeth / whych he also in∣terpreateth by and by more plainly when he addeth / that he should not be ordai∣ned Eime idicos en ecclesia poleos e comes: that is / vnies it be specially in a con∣gregation of some citie or towne. And in the councell of Vrban (as Gratian re∣porteth / distinction. 70.) it was decreed / that the ordination that was made w^t∣out any title / should be void / and what that meaneth / is shewed by and by / when it is sayd / & in what church any is intitled / there let hym alwayes remaine. And thys is also S. Ierome hys complainte / in that men were ordained vnto the mi∣nisterie / when they were chosen by no churche / and so went rounde aboute ha∣uing no certaine place. And therefore thys / that none ought to preache / onles he haue some pastoral charge / ought not to haue ben so strange a thing vnto you as you make it / if eyther the scriptures / or the councels / or the ancient fathers had bene so well knowen vnto you / as eyther your name requireth / or you take vp∣on you / whych dare so boldly pronoūce / that there can be shewed no text of scrip∣ture for the matter.

But you aske what place Paule & Barnabas had apoynted them. What / meane you therby to conclude / that because Paul & Barnabas the apostles had no place appoynted them / therfore a pastor or bishop shuld not? when this is one difference betwene the apostle and bishop / that the one hath no certaine place ap∣poynted / and the other hath. But I thinke I smel out your meaning / which is / that we may make apostles also at these dayes / and that that function is not yet ceased / for otherwise your reason is nothing worthe. Likewise also you aske of Phillip whych was an euangelist. And so you thinke y^• these running ministers are lawfull / because they are Apostles and Euangelists / against whych I shall haue occasion to speake shortly after in the. 50. page. But if a man be able to liue of himselfe / and minde not to be burdensome to the church / it seemeth vnreasona∣ble vnto you / that he may not go about and preach throughout all churches.

Did you neuer read any learned disputations / and that of learned wryters in our dayes about this question: whether (although it be lawful) it be expedient that a man being able and willing to liue of himselfe / ought to take wages of the church / for inconueniences whych might ensue of taking nothing? I do but aske you the question / because you make so great a wonder at this / for I wil not take vpon me heere the defence of it / because I will not multiply questions.

And whye I may you maye not that man that is so able / and will be con∣tent to liue of him selfe / why I say may not he teache / and be the pastor of some churche? Doe you thincke that for his forbearing the wages of the Churche / he may breake the lawes and orders that God hath established? for the rest contai∣ned in those pages touching the ordaining of ministers or byshops / I haue be∣fore spoken at large.

Notes

• Act. 1. 20.
• Titus. 1. 5.
• 14. Chap. 23.
• Cap. 6. actio. 15
• Ad Nepotia∣num.
• P. Martyr vp¦on the firste to the Corinth. 9. chap. thincketh it more expedi∣ent for one to take wages of the church / al∣though he be a∣ble to liue of hym selfe.