The Christian disputations, by Master Peter Viret. Deuided into three partes, dialogue wise: set out with such grace, that it cannot be, but that a man shall take greate pleasure in the reading thereoff. Translated out of French into English, by Iohn Brooke of Ashe.

THE SVMME OF THE SIXT and last Dialogue.

IN this latter dialogue Eusebius putteth foorth the places of the holy scripture, the which they alleadge commonly for the defence and confirmation of purga∣tory: to the which Theophilus answereth, and expoun∣deth them after the true sence of the scripture: and con∣futeth the false interpretacions of the Sophisters: and de∣clareth many good pointes and places of the holy scrip∣ture. It shalbe also intreated of the power of the keyes: and howe the Pope and his would stretch them euen to the other worlde. It shalbe in like manner spoken, of the Popes power and deite: of ••ubile, and of the vertue of the bulle, pardons and indulgences. Afterwards shalbe touched the opinion of them which thinke that there shalbe preaching in the other worlde: And a manifesta∣tion of Iesus Christ to saluation, for such as haue not knowen him in this world. VVherevpon shalbe entrea∣ted the place of Saint Peter, touching the preaching of Iesus Christ vnto the deade, & to the spirits that were de∣teined in prison: & for the end & conclusion of all those matters, the funeralles of purgatory shall be celebrated, and he shalbe buried. For that cause this dialogue is called, the Requiescant in pace of purgatory. For he is deade and bu∣ryed.

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THE SIXT DIALOGVE WHICH is called the Requiescant in pace, of Purgatorye.

THOMAS,

Although friend Eusebius, thou hast resisted Theophilus and Hil∣larie as much as thou canst, and that thou hast fought valyantlye, yet neuer∣thelesse thou couldest not so vertuous∣lye defende thy selfe, but that the fore∣warde, the winges and the hornes of thy armye, and almost all the whole hoast is discomfyted and ouer∣come: there resteth no more nowe but the arrierewarde. If it defende it selfe no valyentlyer, and that it bée no better armed then the others, thou shalt carry no good newes to the Pope of that combatte, and thou shalt giue him no greate occasion to receiue thee among his Capitaines, and to reward thée ritchly.

Eusebius.

I doe not fight for the Pope, but for the trueth. It is to me all one who dee gaine or winne the battaile, so that the victorie abideth with the trueth, and that Iesus doe raigne in his Church.

Theophilus.

I am very glade for the good affection that GOD hath giuen vnto thée, and that thou art not like vnto a heape and company of ambicious and glori∣ous men, who what so euer euill cause that they haue, will neuer confesse them selues ouercome and vanqui∣shed, but estéeme their glory more dearer then the same of Iesus Christ.

Eusebius.

It is verye true that at the beginning I was much offended with your wordes. But when I considered that which I haue hearde of you, I knewe not well to which side to turne. You haue alreadye very much ouercome and fayled me, neuerthelesse I haue yet many places of the holye Scriptures, which holde me in suspens, and leaue me in a greate scruple and doubt in my conscience, vntill such time as thou hast

shewed me by liuely & euident reasons, that I must vn∣derstande them otherwise then they haue béene expoun∣ded vnto me: or else you shall be constrayned to chaunge your matter, and to denye and vnsay all that you haue saide euen vntill this present time.

Hillarius.

Propounde them all by order, and Theo∣philus wil addres & guyde thée to the true vnderstanding.

Eusebius.

For to kéepe the better order, I wyll be∣ginne by the olde testament, and afterwards will follow the newe, after the order by which the bookes of the same are disposed and set, alledging out of euery one of them the pointes which may serue to my matters. I will put forth vnto thée that which Thoby commaunded his sonne, saying: Set thy breade and wine vppon the buriall of the righteous. But thou wilt aunswere vnto me, that that booke is Apocripha, or onely Ecclesiasticall, and not Canonicall, as thou hast already done of the same of the Machabees.

Theophilus.

Truely I may aunswere thée so. But although it were Canonicall, where too would it serue for thy matter?

Eusebius.

Very well, following the interpretacion of Eccius, which expoundeth it of the Almoses for to refresh the poore, that they should pray vnto God for the saluati∣on of the deade.

Theophilus.

He that woulde followe the exposicions of Eccius, there is not a place in the Bible which he hath not corrupted and marred, for to make it serue to the po∣pish tyranny. In the booke of Thoby, & in that place there, there is no mention made of praying for the dead. And al∣though those words preceded thervnto, he ought rather to haue saide: Set thy breade vppon the buriall of the sinner, then vpon that of the righteous. For the sinners shal haue more neede of such prayers, then the righte∣ous. But he saith altogether contrarye. For hée addeth: eate and drinke not with the sinners and wic∣ked: The which is better expressed by the Greeke, saying:

Set thy breade vpon the buriall of the righteous, and giue it not vnto sinners. Wherefore it is most likest to be true, sith that before he hath spoken of Almoses, that he recommendeth by those wordes, chiefely the righteous and faithfull, euen as saint Paul, aboue all other recom∣mendeth those of the houshold of faith. Nowe there are many manners and wayes to bestowe ones breade and wyne vppon the burialles of the righteous: The first is in burying them honestly, as Thoby did, without sparing that which was there vnto néedefull and requisite. For the Hebrewes by the breade, wyne and water, doe vnder∣stande all the things necessarie vnto man, and vnto mans life. The other is, when we doe helpe our bretheren, & succour so their necessities: that they dye not for want of vittailes, nor goe downe to the graue without being buried. If we doe otherwise, we kill them, when we f••••de them not, and that they do dye through our default. The thirde is when we comfort thorowe Almoses the children and friendes of the deade. Then we shed foorth our breade and wine vpon their burialles, behold the ho∣ly water that they desire. And it is a great deale better to doe after that sort, then to playe the glutton with the gluttons, drunkerds and wicked. But the manner of spech is somewhat obscure, bicause that the booke, notwithstan∣ding that it was written in Greeke, yet neuerthelesse it keepeth the phrases and manners of the Hebrew speach.

Hillarius.

He that will then followe the counsell of Thoby, must no more banket and feast the Priestes, sith that he forbiddeth to giue his breade and wine vnto sin∣ners and the wicked. For there is not a people vpon the earth, of a more execrable life, nor which do more abuse the goods which GOD hath giuen vnto man: Amongst whom one may well accompt and number Eccius for one of the principallest Captaines of God Bacchus. For he was very angry, that day he was not dronken in. Wher∣fore it is no meruaile, if he woulde mainteine the spitt and the fryingpan. But yet no ueil 〈◊〉〈◊〉 although he and

all such as he is would presse and take the words of Tho∣by by the rigour without admitting any exposition con∣firmable and agreable to the worde of God, it should haue had more colour for to allow the auncient custome which the Panyms had to cary breade vpon the burialls and to powre thereon wine, euen as already hath béene spoken, then for to proue the bankettes of the priestes, and the prayers for the deade. Neuerthelesse we are well assured that neither Thoby nor any other holy man but haue had regard not to allow such supersticious.

Eusebius.

Let vs leaue of Eccius and the pristes, and answere me vnto that which is written in the booke of the Psalmes: We haue passed thorowe the fire and wa∣ter, and thou hast drawen vs out, and set vs in ioye and comforte. Howe vnderstandest thou that place? The which many Theologians doe expounde it of the fire of purgatory, by the which the soules must first passe, for to be purged, before that they can enter into the celestiall rest. To which agréeth very well that which saint Paul writeth to the Corinthians, saying: For other foundation can no man ••ay, then that which is layde, which is Iesus Christ. And if any man bylde vpon this foundacion, gold, siluer, precious stones, tymber, hay or stubble, euery mans worke shall appeare. For the day shall declare it, and it shalbe shewed in fire: And the fire shall trie euery mans worke what it is. If any mans worke that he hath buylt vpon, byde, he shall receiue a rewarde. If any mannes worke burne, be shall suffer losse, but he shalbe safe him∣selfe: neuerthelesse yet as it were thorowe fire. What fire can we here vnderstand then that of purgatory, which purgeth? wherefore one is sauid by the same. The which we cannot vnderstand of y^• same of hel, from which none can be deliuered, nor consequently saued. What aunswe∣rest thou to that? I do here breake a lyttle the order that I had thought to haue kept, & do leape from the Psalter vnto the Epistles of saint Paul: But it is b••cause that the matters are like, and that the one of the pointes may

the better be discussed and opened with the other. For we cannot vnderstand that fire, thorowe which one goeth and passeth, but of the same of which saint Paule spea∣keth by the which one is saued. For none can passe from the same of hell, but it kéepeth and holdeth fast all that that commeth to it. Declare and expound vnto me these two places, and afterwards I will go straite way to the newe Testament, and will kéepe order as I haue saide.

Theophilus.

As touching the place of the Psalmes, it is moste cleare, that in that Psalme the Prophete speaketh of the tyrannye and oppression, and of the greate afflictions and aduersities which the people of god haue suffered, from which God hath deliuered them. And the better to comprehend all in a summe, the great euills and daungers, in which that people hath beene drowned and plunged, he speaketh it in the person of him: wée are come vnto the fire and water, and thou hast ledde vs by them. He vseth commonly the comparison of the fire and water, bicause that there is nothing which sooner will kill & dispatch a man, then the fire and water, when they haue once power ouer him. And therefore they are many times taken in the holy scriptures, for the tempta∣tions persecutions, passions, daungers deathes, and iudge∣ment of God, by the which all is examined, proued and tryed as by the fire and water, and there is none that can escape, if the Lorde do not delyuer and drawe him from it, as it is here spoken afterwardes. As tou∣ching the place of Saint Paul, he pretended an other thing, then to the fire of Purgatory, as it is easie to know by his owne wordes. Wherefore I doe make thée thine owne iudge of the cause, & I demaunde of thee first, whe∣ther thou art of an opinion, that it behoueth that all the holy Prophets, Apostles and Martyrs, do passe by or tho∣rowe that fire of Purgatory?

Eusebius.

Noe.

Hillarius,

Those which alledge that place for to proue the Purga∣torie, dare not to confesse that. For they magnifie and ex∣toll so much the merittes of Saints, that they haue made

a treasure in their Church, of those which they haue of superaboundance, the which they do vaunt themselues to distribute vnto others.

Theophilus.

Neuertheles the Apostle speaketh in that place of the principallest members of y^e church, to wit, of the Prophets, Apostles, Euangelists, Doctors, Preachers, and consequently of all those which do edifie by their doc∣trine, whom he calleth masons and buylders. He saith that euery ones worke shall passe by the fire, and that the workeman also shalbe examined by the same. Wher∣fore, either you shall be constrayned to confesse that that fire cannot be vnderstanded of the same of Purgatorye, or that there is neither Saint nor Saintes but is com∣pelled to passe by the same, for to proue & trye his worke, sith that he excepteth none. But saith plainly, that eue∣ry mans shalbe tryed by the fire: The which thing saint Augustine was not ignorant off, but vseth the same rea∣son, against those which would mainteine by those words of the Apostle, that those which beléeue in Iesus Christ, shalbe all saued, howe wicked a lyfe so euer they haue ly∣ued, and buylded vppon the foundation, which is Iesus Christ, prouided that they had not altogether abandoned and forsaken the foundation. He taketh not that fire, for that of Purgatory: But for the tribulations, aduersities, and persecutions of this worlde. Although that some wil say, that the like is done yet in the other world, he saith that he will not repunge their opinion: the which as he saith may be true. But yet neuerthelesse he dareth not to affirme it, but expoundeth that fire of the tribulations of this worlde here. Theophilacte, who almost in all his commentaries hath followed Chrisostome, notwithstan∣ding that he is not of the most auncientes, and that hée hath written sithence that the church hath beene verye much marred and spoyled, and that already that fire of Purgatorye was ve••ye muche kindeled, yet neuer∣thelesse hée made here no mention at all, not of one onely sillable: But taketh that fire for the same of Hell:

saying, that the sinner shalbe saued: that is to say, that he shalbe reserued whole and entire, for to burne in the fire and to be punished perpetually. But for to come to the true and more cleare vnderstanding of those wordes, Saint Paul meaneth here briesely, that all buylding, all doctrine, and workes buylded and inuented without the word of God, shall turne into smoke and vanish away al∣together, without being able to abide and continue firme, notwithstanding that all that shalbe builded vppon the true foundation, which is Christ, who cannot beare vppe any buylding, if it be not pure gold, siluer, pearles and pre∣cious stones, taken from his worde, which is more pure then the gold and siluer fined and tryed seuen times. And therefore the Apostle vseth here a metaphore, translation, and comparison. For euen as he compareth the pure doc∣trine of y^• gospel to the gold, siluer & precious stones, which cannot be consumed by the fire, but are by the same try∣ed and doe appeare more faire and cleane: So he compa∣reth the doctrines dreamed and inuen••ed by the braine of man, vnto wood, hay, chaffe and stubble, and by good right. For euen as those thinges cannot abide the fire but are consumed and perished assone as they féele it, so in lyke manner shall mens doctrines perish, and cannot abyde and continewe firme, when they shall come to the touch∣stone. It happeneth vnto vs oftentimes that we delyte and please our selues in our owne workes, and wée thinke that we haue made a faire and a goodly péece of worke. But wée must bring it to the touchstone: the which shall not be after our owne iudgement, but accor∣ding to the same of GOD, who is the iudge of vs and of our workes. Therefore saith he, that the day shall declare it, and that the fire shall trye what euerye mannes worke shall bée. He calleth the day of the Lord, all tymes, in which hée manifes••eth his presence vnto men, by any manner of wayes: the which he doth chiefe∣ly by the manifestation of his truth, and reuelation of his Gospell.

By the fire, although that in the Scripture it be many times taken, for the temptacions and tribulations, yet neuertheles it agréeth best héere to the sence & meaning of the Apostle, to take the fire for the towchstone which pro∣céedeth of the holy Ghost, which is the true fire, which consumeth all doctrine inuented by men, the which can∣not abyde the spirituall towchstone but vanisheth away assoone as one proueth the spirites, whether they be of God or not. Asmuch happeneth of all the workes, procée∣ding of such doctrine, the which cannot beare the iudge∣ment of God. But to the contrary, it happeneth to the truth as to the faith, the which euen as the golde, becom∣meth more fairer, and sheweth it selfe more pure, when it is tryed and examined in that furnayce, and approcheth néerer of that spirituall iudgement. And therefore when the word of the Lorde is manifest by the vertue of the holy Ghost, then all things are reuealed. We shall know what worke we haue made: whether it hath any ••ault in it or not: and whether we haue lost our time: or whe∣ther we be worthy of a reward. If we haue not buylded a matter agréeing to the foundation, when the truth & the iudgement of the spirit of god presseth our conscience, or that the temptations also and the afflictions doe compasse vs rounde about, wée are compelled to condempne our worke, and we shall proue that that which we estéeme to be of some waight and importaunce, is nothing at all, and that in which we put our hope and trust, cannot serue vs, neither confirme nor assure our consciences,

Eusebius.

But how are we saued by the fire, if our workes are lost, and by the same consumed?

Theophilus.

The Apostle declareth it sufficiently himself, if we do marke of what people he speaketh. He speaketh not of Hereticks, Apostates, seducers and false Prophets, which teach false doctrine, contrary to the faith, and which are seperated from Iesus Christ and from his body, which is the Church, by their infidelytie and peruersitie. But he speaketh of the Masons and buylders of the Churche,

that is to say, of Euangelycall Pastors and Ministers, which haue not forsaken the foundation, nor y^• head, which is Iesus Christ, that is to say, which haue not tourned themselues from the principall poynts and articles of the Christian religion, and from the saith in Iesus Christ, and from things necessary to saluation: But haue ming∣led some of their inuentions and traditions amongst the doctrine of the Gospell: and haue fayled in some lyttle and small things which are not very daungerous. Those then to whom such things shall happen: shall receyue domage and losse: For their wor••e, and that which they haue ad∣ded to it of theirs shall perish: and shall haue no more profite, then if they were altogether dispossessed of them: But they shal haue rather shame and confusion for them. Yet neuerthelesse they shall be saued, but as by the fire: not their fault their errors and ignoraunce and their buil∣dings, buylded without the word of God, may be agréea∣••le to God: But bicause of the foundation which they haue holden and kept, and of the head of which they re∣mayne members, and of the faith which abideth in them, shall be purged and delyuered from error and ignoraunce by that fire of the holy Ghost, with which they shall bée illuminated. But yet neuerthelesse héerein, men will liken him vnto a foolish buylder, which shall buyld vpon a good and sure foundation of stone and a rocke, a house or buylding of wood, ••••ye, chasse and stubble, which thinke to haue made a goodly péece of worke, and knowes not his fault vntill that he séeth that the fire bath taken and con∣sumed it altogether. Then he knoweth by experience, that be hath lost his time, and the cost and expences that he hath bestowed about it; and that be is forced to beginne his buylding a new, •••• though he had neuer put his hand vnto it, sauing that th•• shame and the losse abideth with him. We call our selues all Christians, and doe con∣fesse that there is but one foundation and one head, Iesus Christ, But although that in that behalfe we doe all a∣grée, yet neuertheles when they come to buylde vpon that

foundation, all shall not be found good Masons. For ma∣ny will be Masters, before they haue bene good schollers and apprentices: and will not follow the rule and the in∣struction of the master Masons, well expert and cunning in their mistery and occupation, but thincking to make some fairer thing, doe buylde after their owne fantasie. They doe preach or heare the Gospell, and will serue god after their affection, and as they thinke good: And thinc∣king to make some faire péece of worke they marre it al∣together. But they doe not know it by and by, vntill such time as the fire of the Gospell and of the spirite of God, which is the true Iudge, and the truth reuealed vn∣to men destroyeth all the goodly outwarde appearaunce, and maketh it to be séene such as it is, and not such as it appeareth outwarde: As wée sée by experience, in the Moonkish sectes, and in many other ceremonyes, super∣stitions, Idolatryes, and workes inuented of menne, in which wee doe glorye and boaste our selues, and thinke that we haue done mough for to merite foure Pa∣radises, and for to make God to be in our debte. But when the Gospell is purely preached which beateth down all error, all vayne supersticion and mans trust, then we shall know our fault, and be ashamed of that of which we thinke to be much estéemed. Or when God sendeth vnto vs some great affliction temptation and aduersitie, that his iudgement presseth vs, that he examineth and prourth our woorkes, as the fire proueth and tryeth the golde in the furnayce. Then we shall know our hypocrisie, folly, vanitie, and false religion, the which wée doe not thinke but to be pure godlynesse and righteousnesse: And as the holy Apostle, esteeming as dongue all that which before wée estéemed as golde. But forasmuch as wée haue not renounced and forsaken Iesus Christ, nor the fayth which wée haue in him, wee are not altogether lost, tho∣row the fault that we haue committed, but it happened vnto vs, euen so as vnto him which hath escaped the fire.

But he hath yet neuertholesse lost his house, and all that which was in it, bicause that it was not buylded with good stuffe: and could saue but his body all naked his lyfe. Wherfore he must buyld it altogether new: dost thou not thinke Eusebius, that this exposition agréeth better to the sence and meaning of the Apostle, then that of your Doc∣tors which would tourne and wrest it, to their sence and vnderstanding, against the same of the spirite of God, and of Saint Paul, and of the auncient Doctors, which haue neuer expounded it of the fire of Purgatory, but al∣most al of them to the sence as I haue expounded it, chief∣ly Saint Ambrose. I cannot be too much abashed of the manner of doing of those which will vphold mannes tra∣ditions. When we will propone any thing in the Church of Iesus Christ, for a doctrine of saluation and an article of faith, we ought first of all dilygently to examine, whe∣ther that which we would put foorth, hath any certeine and sure foundation in the word of God. If we find that it is commaunded of God and comprised in the holy scriptures, we may and ought boldely to propounde and affirme it. On the contrary, if the Scripture doth make no mention of it, it is not lawfull onely to open the mouth, for to speake one word, and for to propounde for certeine a thing vncerteine. For cursed is the man, which putteth foorth for a sure doctrine, a thing, of which he himselfe is not certein, and of which he cannot say with the Prophet and the ho∣ly Apostle: I haue beléeued it and therefore I spake it. For wée ought to beware and kéepe our selues, as from death, to teach vnto others, to beléeue and to do that, which we our selues beléeue not, and of which we are not cer∣teine. Now it is impossible to be assured and certeine of such things, then by the word of god the which we ought to follow in all things. But I sée cleane contrary in those which haue taught mens traditions, in stéede of the worde of God. For in stéede to take counsayle of it, be∣fore they doe institute any thing, they haue first propoun∣ded and perswaded the people, that which cōmeth in their

out béeing much aduised, whether God hath commaun∣ded or forbidden it. It sufficeth them so that they haue some shew and appearaunce. And when they perceiue that one will examine their Doctrines by the rule of the word of God, then fearing to be ouercome and condemp∣ned, they séeke if they can finde any thing in the Scripture for to proue their intent: the which they ought to haue done before they put tho thing foorth. But sithence that they haue once ordeined and published it, and haue percei∣ued and felt the profit, it grieueth them sore to recant and gainesay it. And therefore they doe all their endeuours, for to finde in the Scripture some coulour, for to beautifie and shew foorth their worke: And there is nothing, so that it hath any appearaunce at all, but that they drawe it violently, depraue and marre it, for to make it serue to their purpose.

Hillarius.

They doe as those which doe fight toge∣ther, which take and catch all that commeth to their hands, for to defende them with, bée it swoorde, launce, staffe forke, pole, fire brande, stones, dunge, myre, dust, as∣shes, and all that which they can catch or come by, with∣out regarding any thing but to defende themselues and hurt their enimie. For that is all one vnto them, so that they escape, •• cary away the victory. These Theologians doe make me to remember the olde pronerbe, of the rule Lesbia, the which was of Lead: Wherefore the Masons of Lesbia boowed it as they would. And in stéede that they ought to measure and compasse their worke by the same, and the stones which they hewed and the wals which they builded, and to correct and amende them if they were not right & wel compassed, they did cleane contrary. For they did bend & make crooked their rule for to make it to agrée with their worke, where they ought to make the worke to agrée to the same. And so it obeyed them in all thinges. And whereas they should correct and amend their worke by the rule, they corrected and amended the rule by their woorke. Euen so are many of the lawes, the which one

maketh them to agrée to the manners, whereas by them they ought to be corrected, & not the lawes by mās affec∣tions.

Theophilus.

There is not a thing the which at this daye they doe more abuse in that sort, then the holy Scriptures. There is not a rule more firme, more surer and certeine, and yet neuerthelesse the false Doctors to all purposes dooe tourne and wrest it to their sence and vnderstandinge, as wée doe sée by experience in that matter of Purgatorye. For sithence that once that er∣rour was brought into the Church of God, as soone as was founde in the holy Scripture one woorde that made mencion of fire, they haue by and by drawen and apply∣ed it to their purpose, and haue taken it for a certeine proofe of Purgatorye, without hauing regarde, that the fire in the same is taken more then in a thousand places, as well in the olde as newe Testament, in so many di∣uerse significations, chiefely in the psalmes, Esay, Ieremy, and in the other Prophetical and Apostolical Scriptures, of which it is not now néede to bring foorth the examples.

Hillarius.

Thou hast hearde a sufficient declarati••n of that place, of which thou oughtest to content thy selfe Eusebius, and to kéepe thy selfe from following the exam∣ple of your Doctors, which doe drawe and wreast the ho∣ly Scriptures, for to make them singe what it pleaseth them, more cruelly then •• Tyrant would draw and han∣dle a malefactor on the racke and on the gallowes.

Eusebius.

They doe say the lyke of you.

Hillarius.

But it is ea••••ly to iudge vnto whome that office agréeth best.

Eusebius.

And howe vnderstandest thou this place of Saint Mathew? where hée sayth: Agrée with thine ad∣uersary quickly, whilest thou art in the waye with him, least th•• nouersary deliuer thée to the Iudge, & the Iudge deliuer thee to the Minister, & then thou be cast in prison. Verely I saye vnto thée: thou shalt not come out thence til thou haue payde the vttermost farthing. What other prison may wée vnderstande héere, but the same of Pur∣gatory?

For from that same of hell there is neuer no hope to come foorth. But sith that it is heere spoken of the com∣ming foorth, after they haue wholy and fully satisfyed, we cannot doubt, but that the same prison is Purgatorye, in which the soules are deteined and kepte in paines, vntill they haue fully satisfied for all their sinnes.

Theophilus.

Sith that thou expoundest the prison in such sorte, I demaund of thée, who is the Iudge, of whom is héere made men••ion off?

Eusebius.

It is God.

Theophilus.

And who is the aduerse partie?

Eusebius.

The Diuell.

Theophilus.

And who is the Sargent or Minister?

Eusebius.

The Angell.

Theophilus.

Thou wilt then say that the Angells doo conduct and lead, the soules into Purgatorye, to the place of paines and ••orments?

Eusebius.

Who then? the Diuels? Shall it be reasona∣ble, that the faythfull should be put into the hande of the diuell, for to he subiect vnto him whom they haue vanqui¦shed and ouercome? and punished? by him ouer whom they haue triumphed?

Theophilus.

They haue not yet wel tri∣umphed, if they be yet so deteined and kept in sinnes, that for them they must be kept in a fire, altogether lyke vnto that same of hell, for the time that they are there. Mee thinkes that that office should be more decent and meete for the Diuels, then for the Angells. For it is not lyke to be true, that the Angells should be the hangmen of the soules of the faythfull, and that they shoulde take plea∣sure to imprison and torment so cruellye their neigh∣bours and bretheren, whiche are Citizens of Heauen with them. I haue read in the holy Scriptures, that the Angells caryed the soule of Lazarus into the besome of Abraham, into a place of ioye and rest, and that they haue deliuered Saint Peter and the Apostles out of pri∣son: But I haue neuer read that they haue lead them into prison, nor into places of tormentes, nor that they did leade the rich man into hell.

For as much as your Doctors confesse that the Diuels do

holde themselues next to the soules of those which are purged in Purgatory, and doe accompany them, for to re∣ioyce themselues of their torments and to mocke them of the same: They may best gi••e that office vnto them, and to exempt and omit the Angells. But what appearaunce hath it with thy exposition? If the Du••el, or the sinne ought héere to be vnderstanded for our aduerse partye, it fol∣loweth then that Iesus Christ commaundeth vs to agrée and to be at one with the diuel and sinne. But how can we be agreed with him and with God? Furthermore, he would that that same agréement should be done whilest that one is in the way, that is to say, in this lyfe. For after that man is dead, he is out of the way. It must then followe that he must make héere his good déedes, before he doe dye, for to auoide that prison of Purgatorye. And the same shall be for to confirme the prouerbe of the Priestes, say¦ing: that better is the candle that goeth before, then that that commeth behinde?

Eusebius.

How wilt thou inter∣prete that place?

Hillarius.

Sith that there is an allegory, and that your Doctors doe play so with the word of God, I will also play and iest with them. First, although there were none other reason, but that you will heare build the Purgatory vpon an allegory, it is sufficient inough, for to ouerthrow and pull downe all your foundation. For there is not a The∣ologian which confesseth not but that the Allegoryes are not sufficient for probation and confirmation of doc∣trine, whatsoeuer it bée, if it haue none other founda∣tion, more cléerer and more playne in the worde of God: but is more proper and fitte for to beautifie and set out the matters, to delite and mooue the auditors and hea∣rers, then for to proue and confirme it. For one maye expounde them after diuerse manners, accordinge to the dexteritie and wit of him which declareth them.

And therefore if I woulde ieste and playe with the woorde of GOD, as your Doctours doe. I might al∣legorise and declare that place, expoundinge the Iudge

for the Pope, which is the God Pluto. The aduersari•• for the Priestes. For they doe quarrell with vs alwaies for to get money from vs, and we can neuer be at one, and agréed with them, except they haue al, and that they haue eaten vs quicke and dead. The Sergeaunt that is the An∣gell and the God Mercury. For according to the Poetical Theologie, he had wings and ••aryed the soules to hel, and was the God of gayne, of deceipts & larc••nyes as already hath bene touched. Now who leadeth the soules into Pur∣gatory, but that S••rgeaunt héere of God Pluto? As the cause of the gayne and hope of the money and raunsome which our Merchaunts and aduerse parties doe looke for? They would gladly that we should agrée with them whilst that we are in the way, in this present lyfe: and that wée should distribute vnto them all our goodes, without lea∣uing any thing, neyther to our children, parents, nor friends. I am very certeine, that after that we haue gi∣uen them all, and that there is no more hope to gette any more raunsome of vs, that there shall bée no more prison for vs, nor Sergeaunts for to leade vs thether. Doest thou thinke Eusebius, that my interpretation is not as good as thine? I am well assured, that as to the sence and meaning of the words of Iesus Christ, neyther the one nor the other approcheth nigh vnto it, and lesse thine then mine: but according to your Theologie, mine is more suf∣ferable and more true.

Thomas.

Thou wilt then say, that the one and the o∣ther are nothing worth: and therfore Theophilus, expound vnto vs the true sence and meaning of Iesus Christ.

Theophilus.

We must wel note and marke that which Hillarius hath sayd of Allegories. How much difference there is betweene thi•• héere of Iesus Christ, and those which y^• expositors do make commonly. For in these words of Iesus Christ, there i•• an example & a comparison wrap∣ped in with an Allegorie. For Iesus Christ would not here declare any other thing, but into what dangers & inconu••∣niences those doe put themselues, which had rather to goe

to the ••igour of right then to agrée friendly with the ad∣uerse partie, before they doe come to iudgement: to that ende that hée doth the better incitate and stirre forwarde men vnto amitie and brotherly reconcilyation, of which he speaketh in this place. After the same forte doth Saint Chrisostome expounde it, without making any mention of Purgatory, and he alloweth not those which do vnderstand by the aduerse partie the diuell, but interpreteth that place o•• ••lees an•• processe. Now our Lord Iesus the better to moue the hearers to brotherly reconc••lyation, taketh ex∣ample vppon the pleaders, as if he shoulde saye: If thy aduerse partie do bring thée into iudgement, th•••• canst doe no better for thy honour and profite, then to agrée with him, before thou proue and try the rigour of right. For if thou agrée friendly with the partie, he may shew thée some fa••our and forgiue thee the deb••e, and thou shalt auoyde the dishonour, shame, and the cost••s, which is bestowed vppon the playnts. On the contrary if thou doe not agrée, thou canst not so well auoyde the payment: but the Iudge shall know it, and thou shal•• be condemned and compelled to pay to the vttermost all the debt, without rebating one farthing, euen as those which for debt are deteined and kept in prison, vntill the ende of th•• payment. Beholde the example and the similytude which Iesus Christ pro∣pounded vnto vs, for to bring vs to reconcilyation. But he declareth not amply that which he would haue vs to vn∣derstand by the same: but it su••••seth him to haue set vs in the way, and he hath opened vnto vs the vnderstanding of that which he would teach vs, which auayleth as much as if he had sayd: Whilest that thou arte yet alyue and that thou hast time, retourne in grace, and agree with thine aduersary, that is to say with thy brother and neighbour, whome thou hast offended, and to whome thou art bound. For we are debters, vnto all thos•• to whom we haue done iniurie and wrong.

And therefore let vs not suffer that the bloude of our brother should demaund ve••geaunce, and delyuer vs in∣to

the hande of the Iudge. Le••te vs not tary vntill we bée cy••ed and that the day bee assigned vnto vs, for to a••peare in his iudgement: But let vs con••••rre our contrauersies friendly the one with the other, whilest he giueth vs lea∣sure, and he himselfe as a rightfull arbitrator exhorteth vs to doe it.

For be we assured that if wée doe it not, after that hée shall tary long time, he himselfe will set vs agréed. But that shall be to the great cost and expences and to the great hurte and shame of him in whom he shall finde the wrong, and who shall be the cause of the controuersie, and of the lette and h••••deraunce which shall be in the agreement.

For he ought to be assured that his malyce and obstinati∣on shall be vnto him déere solde, and that he shall not be a∣bated one onely farthing: for if he be condemned to satisfie to the righteousnesse of God, euen to the vttermost penny, there is no more hope of health and saluation. For sith that the sentence is once giuen, and that man is out of this mortall lyfe, there is no more time to demaunde and aske agréement.

On the other side, it is impossible that man can euer haue wherewith to satisfie God, sith that thorow his infi∣delytie & peruer••••tie he hath made y^• satisfaction of Iesus Christ vnprofitable for himselfe. It followeth then ne∣cessarily y^• that prison is not purgatory, but hel, which hath no issue, nor place of raunsome. Wherefore that place concludeth nothing for the Purgatory. And although it be sayde that man shall not come out of that prison, vntill that he hath payed the vttermost farthing, wée must not therefore conclude y^• he shall come out at any time, but ra∣ther that he shall neuer come out. For that manner of speaking is very common in the Scripture, and ought to be vnderstanded as y^• which is written of y^• Rauen which Noe did sende out, which retourned not agayne: vntil that the waters were dryed vp.

It followeth not therefore that hée retourned agayne at any time afterwards.

And Saynt Augustine expoundeth that same place, eue•• as that which is written by that same Euangelyst, spea∣king of Ioseph, saying, that he knew not the Virgin Ma∣ry, vntil she had brought foorth hir first begotten son. We must not conclude by these words, with Hel••••dius, that he hath knowen hir afterwards. For he meaneth none other thing, but that he knew hir not, whē she ••••re Iesus Christ. But it followeth not therefore that he hath knowen hir afterwards: Or otherwise he should be forced to conclude, that Iesus Christ shall reigne no more, after that he shall haue put all his enemyes vnder his feete, therefore it is written, that the Lord hath sayd vnto him: Sitte thou on my right hand, vntill I put all thine enemies thy footstoole. Thou doest then sée that the exposition of Saint Augu∣stine, ouerthroweth yours. And that which I say of that place, must be also vnderstanded of that which is writt•••• afterwards of the seruaunt which would not haue compas∣sion vpon his companion, nor forgiue him the debt. Ther is no difference, but y^• Iesus Christ by that example declareth vnto vs, that we must not hope to obteine pardon of God, except we haue done first all our endeauour, to obteine it of those whom we haue offended, and to satisfie and become friends agayne with them. Also in lyke manner by the o∣ther he declareth vnto vs, that we ought to haue no more hope, if we doe not pardon those which shall offend vs.

Thomas.

We must not then, by that reckoning, tary to pay our debts, and to amend the iniuryes done vnto our neighbours, vntil we be dead, for to make satisfaction after∣wardes in Purgatory to the Priestes, vnto whome the wrong was not done and the debts were not due.

Theophilus.

Euen as by that example Iesus Christe exhorteth euery one of vs, to agree with our neighbour, during this lyfe: So he admonisheth vs to doe the lyke towardes GOD, vsing the very same similytude in the Gospell after Saynct Luke: Declaring vnto vs thereby, that if wee doe knowe howe to prouide and g••u••rne our affayres and dooinges after the worlde,

and to agrée with those vnto whom we are bound, for to auoyde the losse and inconueniences into which we maye fall, we ought by a more stronger reason to trauayle to doe so with God, whilest that the time of our visitation indureth, and that he giueth vs time and space to agrée with him thorow true repentance. For after y^• the sentence shall be giuen, there shall be no more remedie. Thou maist then Eusebius knowe, if thou doest well vnderstand the meaning of the words of Iesus Christ, that they doe de∣stroy Purgatory, in stéede to buylde it. For he giueth vs no hope that we may take order and remedie for our af∣faires and businesse after we be dead, but he would that we dispose it both with God, and among our selues, before that we departe from hence, and that we appeare before his face.

Thomas.

Thou must then séeke some other way, Eu∣sebius. For as farre as I doe perceiue and sée, that place will not helpe vppe thy Purgatory.

Eusebius.

Then be∣fore we goe out from that Euangelist, tell me Theophi∣lus, wherefore Iesus Christ hath sayd, that the sinne a∣gaynst the holy Ghost is not pardoned in this worlde, nor in the world to come.

Theophilus.

That poynt is one of the chiefest argu∣ments which your Doctors doe put foorth for the defence of Purgatory. But what wilt thou thereby conclude?

Eusebius.

That which Saint Gregory concluded, who wayed and marked well those words, and sayd, that by that sentence is giuen vs to vnderstand, that there are some sinnes, which are pardoned in this world, and others which are in the other world, which out to be purged be∣fore the iudgement, and for the which it is to be beléeued, that there is a fire. If in the other worlde there bée for∣giuenesse of some sinnes, it cannot be in Hell. Then of force it must be in Purgatory.

Theophilus.

I doe greatly meruayle of that Logicke, which maketh such Silogismes and conclusions: That sin is not pardoned in this world nor in the world to come.

There is then some which is pardoned in the worlde to come: the which cannot be but in Purgatory. Where∣fore there is a Purgatory. There is not a Sophister so ignoraunt, which ought not to knowe, that according to the rules of their Logicke, one cannot draw a consequence whatsoeuer it be, of propositions altogether negatiues. If then of negatiues, a consequence negatiue is nothing worth, how shall the affirmatiue be good, such as you woulde héere conclude? Why one you not conclude rather. This sinne is not pardoned in this world nor in the worlde to come. It shall be then neuer pardoned, For if there be a pardon, it cannot be but in this worlde or in the other. The consequence after this manner should be good. For the Antecedent hath comprehended al the times and places to whome the sinne may be pardoned.

And after that sorte doth Saint Marke expounde it, of whome the glose is more certeine, then yours. For in steede of that that Saint Mathew hath sayd, neyther in this world nor in the other, he hath said: neuer. Where∣in it appeareth that those two propositions are equiualent and of equalytie. That sinne is not pardoned neyther in this worlde, nor in the other: and that sinne is neuer pardoned. Furthermore, you doe contesse, that it must bée that the fault of sinne, the which maketh man subiect to dampnation, be alredy pardoned in this world, & that ther remayneth but the payne, the which he must beare and suffer in Purgatory. For you doe putte none other diffe∣rence, betwéene the soules of the blessed which are alrea∣dy at rest, and those of Purgatory, and the dampned, but that the Saints which are already in Paradise, are par∣doned of payne and fault. Those which are in Purgato∣ry, are not pardoned but of the fault, but they must heare and suffer the payne due to sinne, vntill such time as they haue satisfied for it, and that they be perfectly purged.

But yet neuerthelesse bicause that the faulte is pardoned them, their payne is not to them eternall, as the same of the dampned, bicause that the fault of dampnation is ta

ken away from them, the which abideth and continueth vpon the reprobate. Now Iesus Christ speaketh héere of sinne which dampneth, the which agreeth not but to the reprobate. Wherefore he speaketh of the faulte of sinne, the which is not pardoned in Purgatory, according to your doctrine, for in the same one can but release the payne.

It followeth then, that although that we doe agrée and graunt vnto you that ther is some forgiuensse of sinne in the other worlde, euen as you woulde conclude of the words of Iesus Christ that the same should nothing at all relieue and helpe vp your Purgatory. Wée must then consider the manner of speaking, by the which Iesus Christ woulde declare, how greate and detestable that sinne is, and to take away all the hope of pardon, vnto those which in that poynt will resist the truth knowen, and will goe about to quenche and putte out the lyght of the holy Ghost, which is offered vnto them.

And therefore hée was not contented to say: that sinne shall neuer be forgiuen and pardoned. But the better for to augment and amplyfie the thing, hée woulde vse that manner of speaking, which comprehendeth the iudge∣ment of God, the which already euery man féeleth in his conscience in this lyfe: and that latter iudgement which shall be manifested in the resurrection.

Wherefore hee sayth briefely, that in this same lyfe, in the which God hath giuen to man, time and space to conuert and tourne himselfe vnto him, that sinne shall ne∣uer be pardoned, and yet lesse in that latter iudgement, in which God will giue his latter sentence: except peraduen∣ture there were some, which in him had some hope.

But it followeth not thererefore that he hath forgiuenesse of any sinne, in the worlde to come, which shall not bée héere pardoned. But to the ende that thou mayst yet bet∣ter knowe, that Iesus Christ hath not spoken in that sorte without iust reason, we must consider that he furni∣sheth vs héere with a good witnesse against the Originists

and Anabapti••••s, which doe promise forgiuenesse of sins vnto the Diuells and reprobate in the other worlde. Al∣though I doe not beleeue, that Origines was of such an o∣pinion: For his bookes doe witnesse vnto vs the contrary. But for to retourne vnto the words of Iesus Christ, sith that Iesus Christ sayth so cléerely, that that sinne, which is proper vnto them, shall not haue forgiuenesse in this world nor in the other, it followeth then, that it shall ne∣uer haue: or els it must be that they finde out an other thirde worlde, euen as they haue founde out a temporall eternitie, to the which they doe giue an ende: and an eter∣nall fire, which is temporall, not perdurable. But although it should be so, that there should be in the world to come some forgiuenesse of sinnes, it followeth not therefore, that it is necessary to haue there a Purgatory. Now first of all there is no certeine witnesse that there is any re∣mission and forgiuenesse after this lyfe, but a certeine hu∣mayne coniecture and presumption. Then if that pro∣position be buylded vppon humayne coniecture and pre∣sumption, yet that which affirmeth the Purgatory is best, sith that the same is none other thing but a coniecture and presumption, buylded vpon other coniectures and pre∣sumptions. For put the case that there should be forgiue∣nesse in the other lyfe, coulde it not be in any other place rather then in Purgatory? or at an other time, then you do there limit? Could it not haue bene giuen, either by and by after that one is dead, or delayed vntill the latter iudge∣ment? But which of the auncientest doctors of the church is there, that euer hath expounded that place in such sence as thou takest it? Chrisostome expeundeth it after this manner: Sith that that sinne is not veniall vnto you, you shall be grieuously punished both in this lyfe and in the other. He meaneth none other thing by those words, but that the Iewes which resisted the holy Ghost, shall not be only punished in this world, for to be chastised and cor¦rected as the Corinthians were: or onely in the other world, as the rich man was: but they shall be héere and

there, as those of Sodome and Gomorra. For they were destroyed by the Romaines, and haue not escaped eternall dampnation. There is nothing in this exposition which can serue you. Those which are of an opinion, y^• the s••••les doe abide vncertein of their saluation, or dampnation, and that they may yet profit or empaire betwéene this and the great iudgement: In like manner those which doe esteme and thinke that the gospel shalbe preached vnto the soules of the dead, to which it hath not bene heere declared, shall they not haue more colour héere to build their reasons and arguments, then you for your Purgatory? For at the least∣wise, those latter héere shal haue more appearaunce, a••cor∣ding to the scripture, bicause that they may or can alledge some places, which doe séeme expresly inough to fauour that opinion. And yet they haue other reasons very appa∣rant, where you haue not but certeine colde coniectures Nowe Iesus Christ, who is the infallible veritie woulde not, that we should builde the articles of our fayth, vppon coniectures, but vpon the expresse veritie. For sith that he and his Apostles doe witnesse, that they haue man••fested all that which was necessary to our saluation, & hath com∣mended to vs so much the loue towards our bretheren, it is not lyke to be true, but is repugnant to the witnesse of Iesus Christ, that they haue spoken vnto vs so obscurely, & haue giuen vnto vs onely some coniectures of this matter, and of the loue that we owe vnto the dead, the which the Priestes doe wrest it more, then that which is due vnto those that be liuing.

Hillarius.

Bicause that Iesus Christ hath spoken so ob∣scurely, therefore they would make commentaries & glo∣ses, for to declare it, bicause that it bringeth vnto them more profit.

Thomas.

Thou hast opened a place, Theo∣philus, of which I would gladly be resolued, that is to say, of the preaching to the dead. For to tell the truth I haue oftentimes dreamed & mused after it, bicause that I consi∣dered, y^• according to the witnesse of the Scripture, n••ne can haue saluation, but thorowe the faith in Iesus Christ.

Now if we do compare those which haue knowne Iesus Christ and haue beleeued in him, with those which haue not beleeued, and which haue neuer hard him speake, the number of those here shalbe very little, in respect of others. Wherefore it followeth, that there should be a merua••lous number of the damned, & that the mercy of God shall not be so great as his rigor & iudgement. Now it is straunge to mans reason, to iudge that God will dampne so many, chie••••y, sith y^• he hath had as many which haue not known Iesus Christ, for want that one hath not shewed him vn∣to them. Wherefore me thinketh that the opinion of those héere is not much out of reason: And I would gladly know what places they can haue of the holy Scripture for to proue it, for I will accord and agrée almost sooner to that, then to the opinion of Purgatory.

Theophilus.

Thou hast moued a question, the whiche cannot be expressed and absolued in few wordes. For we must first declare what knowledge of Iesus Christ is ne∣cessary vnto saluation: and how it hath bene alwayes prea∣ched from the beginning of the world, among all people & nations: And how it hath ben sufficiently manifested vn∣to the elect for their saluation, & to the reprobate for their condempnation: Insomuch that they are all inexcusable, & they cannot alledge ignorance sufficient for to excuse them: And it is not néedfull that they haue any more preaching after this lyfe. But I had rather that we would omit and leaue off that matter vntill an other time, that we maye speake more amply of it, and better to satisfie the question which is made dayly, touching the saluation or dampna∣tion of our predecessors, which haue liued in errour and ig∣noraunce. Yet neuerthelesse bicause that the places, which we haue accustomed to alledge, for y^• preaching to the dead may also serue to the matter at this present time, I am contented y^• we do entreat of them, for to declare that they are not firme inough for to proue the same: nor the Limbe. nor Purgatory in like manner to which the others would make thē serue. But for that that it may be, that Eusebus

doth put them foorth amongst his defenses, it were better that we do delay that matter, vntil such time as he bring∣eth it in by course, in following his matter by order: or if be do it not, thou maist put me in remembrance Thomas. Yet neuerthelesse before that Eusebius pursueth the other places that he hath determined to put foorth or open, I wil propound vnto him an argument, concerning the point of which we haue entreated off, that is to say, of the remis∣sion & forgiuenes of sinnes in the other world? Whervpon I demaund of thée Eusebius: when Iesus Christ did giue the keyes of the kingdome of heauen vnto his Church, as wel in y^• person of S. Peter as vnto al y^• church generally, & that he declare the power of them & of the ecclesiastical ministry, hath he not sayd namely: That which thou shalt binde in earth shall be bound in heauen, & that which thou shalt loose in earth shall be loosed in heauen. He sayth not: That which thou shalt binde or vnbinde, in heauen or in Purgatory, or in hell, or in the other world, or in the other life, and in an other earth, but speaketh of this héere in the which the keys haue ben giuen, & in the which the Euan∣gelical ministry hath his vigor and strength. I wil not rei∣terate that that you said of the forgiuenes of fault & paine. For al that is against you But me thinketh that the Pope and those that haue receiued the power of him, doe verye euill vnderstand their office, willing to extend and stretch the power of their keyes, pardons and indulgences, vnto the other world, and vnto the dead, which haue their estate a part and seperated from ours, and are no more vnder the iudgement of the church which is in earth, which hath not to regard but on the liuing.

Eusebius,

Alexander of Ales, & Gabriel Biel haue very wel satisfied y^• obiectiō. For they do answere, y^• the dead ought to be accōpted, to be yet vpō the earth, as touching y^• absolutiō or ligatiō: binding or vnbin∣ding, vntil y^• they are passed & entred into the kingdome of heauen. For whilest y^• the soules are in purgatory, they are vpon the earth, sith that they are not yet in heauē, & that they are yet of the Church militant, & not of y^• triumphāt.

Furthermore, euen as those which are in the earth are yet in the way, and not at the end & full marke, so are those which are deteined in Purgatory: They are in passing, for to goe to the countrey, as touching the purgation, by the which they are purged & passe to the country, as by y^• way. Although y^• they are at the ende & marke as touching the confirmation. For they can no more sinne nor merit. Fur∣thermore, all the while that they are ayded, & receiue com∣fort of the temporall & earthly goods, by prayers, one may well holde & accompt them for to be yet of this world, sith that they doe communicate with vs of the goods which are there.

Hillarius.

He will accompt then of the dead, as of the Monkes, which are dead to the world in some pointes, but not in other some. They are dead to the world, as to that that they doe serue and profit no person, no more then the dead. But they are not dead, as to eating and drinking, and to other carnall workes. For in y^• there is not a peo∣ple which doe better liue in the world, nor which are more of the world. Euen so shall it be of the dead. They shalbe dead to vs, for to giue vs any more ayde and succour. But they shal not be dead for to hurt vs and to eate & consume our goods and substaunce. It is said in a common prouerb: That the dead do not bite: But there are none liuing more biting, then such dead men, except the Priests and Monks which do become vnto vs so biting, for to bite vs vnder the name and title of them.

Theophilus.

The Pope aduaun∣ceth himselfe to be the liuetenant of S. Peter: But where∣fore doth he attribute vnto himselfe the office of S. Peter?

Eusebius.

Bicause that S. Peter can no more execute it.

Theophilus.

Wherefore can he no more exercise & execute it?

Eusebius.

Bicause y^• he is no more conuersant among the liuing, and bicause he hath ended & finished his course, and hath ended his ministry among men.

Theophilus.

Thou commest nowe to the matter. If then Saint Peter hath not belowe the Heauen power to absolue vs, nor they of the other worlde, those which are in this heere, how shall the Pope haue more power, for

so absolue belowe the earth, and they of this world, those which are in the other? Sith that he attributeth vnto him∣selfe the office of saint Peter, for that that Saint Peter is absent from those that are liuinge wherefore 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 not content himselfe with the liuinge. What hath he to doe with the dead? If in the other world there be an premis∣sion of sinnes, and the 〈◊〉〈◊〉 of the 〈◊◊◊〉〈◊◊◊〉: 〈◊〉〈◊〉 take place, wherefore doth he not leaue 〈◊〉〈◊〉 of the same vnto Saint Peter, and to the Prophets, Apostles, Martyrs and confessors which are there. For if it bée néedfull to pardon sinnes to the dead in the other world, those which are there present, and know their 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 they not bet∣ter doe it then the Pope: 〈◊◊◊〉〈◊◊◊〉 which 〈◊〉〈◊〉 ••••••∣sent, and altogether ignoraunt 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 estate and conditi∣on? They say that they cannot pardon sinnes to those that be aliue, nor absolue them except they confesse them∣selues vnto them •••••• to know and iudge of th••m how can they 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 and giue 〈◊〉〈◊〉 vnto the soules of the dead, 〈◊◊◊〉〈◊◊◊〉 not, and 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 confes∣sion, nor know whether they be 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 or not whether they be de••eined ••. hell 〈◊〉〈◊〉 Purgatorye, or al∣ready passed and arriued into 〈◊〉〈◊〉 I 〈◊〉〈◊〉 thincke that a liuetenant is 〈◊◊◊◊◊〉〈◊◊◊◊◊〉 the place of an other; which cannot 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 prop•••• person. Then if the Pope be the 〈◊〉〈◊〉 of Saint Peter: in this world, bicause that S. Peter is no more héere, howe can he be his liuetenaunt in the other world, in which Saint Pe∣ter is, and he is not? Beholde a sort of liuetenauntes, the most straungest that euer was in the world. For in stéed to holde and kepe the place, in which they ought to be pr••∣sent, in the name of those that are absent they béeing ab∣sent, would holde the place in which they cannot be in the name of those which are there present. Wherefore I would counsayle the Pope and his, to let the dead alone from hencesoorth, and to meddle no more with them, and that they doe leaue the charge vnto Sain••t Peter and to the other Apostles and Saintes which are with them.

Hillarius.

If Iesus Christ hath sayd vnto one of his Dis∣ciples: let the dead bury the•• dead, we may well say vnto those héere: let y^• dead absolue y^• dead, & be you careful but for those that be ti••ing. For I doe assure them, that they shall haue inough to doe to gouerne the liuing, & they shal ••nde themselues more ••indled & letted then they thinke, and more then they would. Wherefore I beléeue that they shall be forced to let the deade al••ne, and to leaue all the charge vnto Saint Peter and vnto his compaignions: or for to speake better 〈◊〉〈◊〉 God; which hath both the quick and the dead in his 〈◊〉〈◊〉 Wherefore wée haue no néede to ••••men•• neither the quicke nor the ••end vnto y^• Saints nor Saintes, ••ut 〈◊〉〈◊〉 vnto the Lord Iesus, who is the Iudge and Sauiour 〈◊◊◊〉〈◊◊◊〉 the Pope sayth also that he is 〈◊〉〈◊〉, I know not what shall be his Church. For if the Pope be liuetenaunt of Iesus Christ: and the office of a 〈◊〉〈◊〉 is ••o holde the place of him that is absent, it follow•••••• then that I••su•• Christ i•• not in the Popish Church, but h•• 〈◊◊◊◊〉〈◊◊◊◊〉 a 〈◊〉〈◊〉. And so by that meanes the Popish Church shalbe without Ie∣sus Christ 〈◊〉〈◊〉 without God. Then of necessitie it must be that the Diuell 〈◊〉〈◊〉, and that be is the ••ead and the God, as be is the God of this w••••ld. For in the Christian Church, Iesus Christ hath no néede of a ••••••ar neither liuetenant, sith that he 〈◊〉〈◊〉 alwayes present, and that he hath promised to be in the middest of his Disciples, and with them vntill the ••nde of the world. Except we will call his ••uly spirit, his ••ear after the imitation of Tertulian bicause that it r••igneth in vs by him, and qiutheneth vs. ••husebius. Mee thinketh that no reason can perswade ••••••. For the aun∣swere 〈◊〉〈◊〉 I haue alledged vnto you of Alexander of Ales, hath already satisfied all your obiections and reply¦ings, 〈◊〉〈◊〉 although that S. Peter and the Apostles are in the other world, they are not therefore in Purgatory.

Wherefore their ministrie & their power of their ••eyes, cannot be stretched & pulled out the ••her, but are in heau••, in which ther is no more néede.

Theophilus.

Also, •••• more

is the Pope neither the priests. I know not whether that their key be longer, then that of Saint Peter, or whether that there were more space from the heauen vnto Purga∣tory, then from y^• earth.

Hillarius.

But how knowest thou, whether that Sain•• Peter hath caryed his key with him or 〈◊〉〈◊〉. For if the Pope haue it, Saint Peter hath it no more.

Theophilus,

Saint Peter had two names, and was cal∣led before Symon, Now I beléeue in déede, that the Pope may haue the keyes of Symon, not of Simon Peter, but of Simon Magus: the which argée not with the true ••oore, which is Iesus Christ: nor with the true locke which is the word of God, the which is ••••••o the true key of know∣ledge for to open vnto vs the kingdome of heauen.

Thomas.

He hath then chaunged the key.

Theophilus.

There is nothing truer.

Thomas,

And his, to what doore doth it agrée?

Hillarius.

Vnto that of the cofers •• scrips, for to stuffe and fill them,

Thomas.

Then Purgatory is in our purses.

Hillarius.

We haue sufficiently pre••ed it. For they haue so well purged vs, that thou wil•• say that they are made of the 〈◊〉〈◊〉 of the D••••ell. For any one crosse may not ••ary in it, where that Purgatory is.

Thomas.

It must be called then from hencefoorth, Pag••∣tory, or purge purse. Now if the Purgatory be so ••••e, it is not now néedfall that the key be too long for to open it. But whatsoeuer it be, the Popes haue ben y^• subtilest loc∣kyers, & the greatest ••othsmiths y^• euer was in the world. For ther was neuer none, as farre as I can see, which hath made and counterfaited more keyes, nor which hath made them to agrée better to all locks.

Hillarius.

The experience doth witnesse it.

Theophilus.

I do think yet vpon an other reason, against y^• of Eusebius. If thou wilt limit y^• ministry of Saint Peter and of the Apostles, within the compasse of heauen, and wilt not suffer their power to bée stretched foorth euen to the confins and ende of Purgatorye, at the least thou shalt not denye mée, but that there be some Popes, Cardinalls, Bishoppes, Priestes, and Monkes in

Purgatory, 〈◊〉〈◊〉 thou wilt say y^• the•• do ••o all straight way into paradise, or into 〈◊〉〈◊〉. Now if, they be in Purga∣tory, wherefore ••••e ye not suffer them to haue that office, in the places, where they are present.

Eusebius.

Bicause for that they are sinners as others are and subiect vnto one iudgement they are of the same condition as the others, and they cannot giue them that whereoff they themselues haue néede, and cannot haue it for them, Furthermore, as soone as they are dead, they are depriued from that office.

Hillarius.

I haue two reasons for to beate downe thy aunswere: The first is that I am abashed, that the Pope and his doe attribute vnto them∣selues the power to pardon all sinnes, how great and wic∣ked soeuer they bée, yea, all Sodomy, and if néede hée, the sinne against the holy Ghost, notwithstanding that it bée irr••missible, and doe giue bul•• and pardons for all, so that one doe bring them money, and that they haue also power to pardon the ve••••all sinnes in Purgatory. For according to your own doctrine, none are there deteined and kept but for the veniall sinnes. For the mortall sinnes, haue no pur∣gation in the other world, but they must bee punished in hell. And as to that that thou sayest, that they are sinners, and subiect to the same paines in Purgatory, so are they in this worlde, and leaue not off therefore to absolue themselues the one to the other, although they shoulde haue killed Father and Mother: and so make themselues as white as the Collyers. Furthermore, you doe call the impression of your Creame and holy Oile with whiche you doe anointe the Pristes, when they doe take their orders, Charector indelibilis, that is to saye, a marke and a signe which cannot be put out nor defaced. If it be so, the P••iestes dooe abide and remaine alwayes Pristes, al∣though they be dead. For you will not confesse, that that impression and marke is onely done vnto the bodye: But you doe affirme, that it penitrateth and pearceth euen to the soule: of which it can neuer be defaced nor abolyshed, yet neuerthelesse thou knowest better then I.

Theophilus.

They doe attribute vnto it such vertue, that they doe affirme for cert••ine, that a pr••est, notwith∣standing that he be an heriticke, or an apostate, or desgra∣ded, yet neuerthelesse be shall haue power alwayes to con∣secrate the body of God, as well as others, if he doe pro∣nounce the sacramentall wordes vppon the hoast, with the intencion to consecrate.

Hillarius.

Beholde yet to confirme better my purpose I do not doubt for my parte, but that that Character is the marke, wherewith is marked the conscience of those which shall giue héede vnto spirits of errour and deuilish doctrine, and which are Apostates of the faith, according to the prophecie of saint Paul. That is the marke of the great whore of Babylon without which one cannot sell nor buy, nor haue any place in the Popish Church. That is a marke cleane contrary, vnto that which the Angell printed in the foreheads of the elect of God. Nowe sith that the Apostles of Iesus Christ, and the true bi∣shoppes and priests, which by them were ordayned, haue not had that Cautor that is to say Marke (I had thought to haue said Charecter) I am not abashed, if they haue not such power in the other worlde, as the Pope hath in the same and in this. But it is an other thing of him and of his which do departe out of this worlde, with this Cauter (I doe beguile my selfe alwayes) I doe say with that Char••••ter, which they do beare alwayes with them. Wherfore they ought to haue no lesser power there then here. And y^• same I wil proue by y^• example of Frier Rogers a C••rdelier, which is recyted in the booke of the conformities of saint Fraunces. It is there written, that after that he was deade, he appeared vnto a certeine wo∣man, who confessed vnto him all hir sinnes, & hée gaue hir obsolution. If h•• being deade had the power to come to heare the confession of the lyuing, and to absolue them, wherefore shall not his other compagnions béeinge deade haue, and chiefely the Popes and Byshoppes, who haue ordained them and confirmed them, as much power

among the dead? Furthermore, if according to the wit∣nesse of your Doctors, others may satisfie for vs, not one∣ly during our lyfe, but also after y^t we be dead, wherfore cannot we after that we be dead satisfie for our selues, and to cause Masses to be song in Purgatory, sith that there are so many Priest's Popes, and Bishops for to doe it? What thinkest thou Thomas.

Thomas.

Thou sayest well. But I thinke that they cannot haue their hoasts and singing cakes.

Hillarius.

Yet they had neuerthelesse fire inough for to séethe or bake their gods.

Thomas.

If it be so, as they say, there is too much. And therefore I thinke that they cannot haue hoasts, chalyces, aulters, nor vestements. For the fire will schorch and consume it all.

Hillarius.

Thou makest a good reason. But by that compt, how can the bulls and pardons of the Pope be kept and preserued from the fire, which are sent thether by hole cart loades, & which some do cause to be buried with them, for to cary them thether, sith that they are but paper and parchment? Asmuch may we say of the rule and habite of Saint Fraunces. What sayest thou Theophilus.

Theophilus.

There is yet an other poynt. If they will say that those which are in Purgatory, can no more merite, neyther for themselues, nor for others, they can∣not say the lyke (without speaking agaynst the doctrine, which they haue giuen vs) of y^e saints which are in Pa∣radise. For they doe affirme, that they pray vnto God for vs, & that they are our intercessors & aduocates towards him, and that in séeing God, which séeth all things, they doe see all as in a Mirrour or looking glasse. If they doe pray for vs which are yet in this lyfe, bicause of the great loue and charitie that they haue towards vs, wherefore do they not also willyngly pray for their bretheren deteyned and kept in the fire of Purgatory? For they shoulde haue a greate deale more reason to doe that, if they had anye care or charge of menne. And that for manye cau∣ses.

First that the estate and condition of the one and the other agréeth more, then it doth of the dead to the lyuing. Secondly, bicause that they themselues can better perceiue of their estate and condition, and whether they bée more in payne, or whethether they be out of it, then we. For there is more agréeing of the spirits to the spirits, which are seperated from the bodye, then to vs which are yet wrapped in them. And which is more, if y^t the soules of Purgatory doe know, eyther by diuine reuelation, or by the report of Angells, or of y^e soules of them which dayly doe depart out of this worlde, that which is done vppon earth, as your Doctors doe testifie and affirme, can they not aswell reporte and tell vnto the Saints that which is done in Purgatory? It is not lyke to be true, i•• there bée any, but that they are better aduertised then we, and that many wayes. And if they be aduertised, I cannot beléeue, that they are so inhumayne and vngentle, if they doe pray for the lyuing, but that they doe pray a great deale more for those poore soules: sith that they are in so gréeuous tor∣ments, without any comparison that may be in the world. I doe speake alwayes according to your doctrine. And this is the thirde reason, by the which I will conclude a∣gaynst the Priestes, eyther that the Saints doe not praye for the lyuing: or y^e it is in lyke manner necessary and a great dele more néedeful that they pray for the dead. Now if they pray for the dead, I am of an opinion, that we leaue vnto thē al the charge. For it agreeth better to them then vnto vs, sith that they are no more of this world, but of the other, in which are those that are dead: and that we haue no more cure and charge but of the lyuing. If they will deny that they doe not pray for the dead, I haue more iust and lawfull reason to deny vnto them, that they doe not pray for the lyuing: Except peraduenture they would say, that the Saintes were as cruell, as th•••• which will suffer those poore soules alwayes to burne, which do bring vnto them no money.

Hillarius.

Thou hast put foorth very strong reasons.

But I will a little helpe Eusebius, to defende his cause, and will propounde and put forth reasons against th••••e to which thou shalt haue much a doe to aunswere. Thou speakest of the saints, what wilt thou saye, if I proue vnto thée by liuely & strong reasons, that the Pope hath more power and authoritie then they?

Theophilus.

That should be an other ••atter.

Hillarius.

I will make thy selfe confesse it. Who hath more power and authoritie, either God or the saints?

Theophilus.

There néedeth not an aunswere vnto thy question. For one may vnderstande it without speaking. There is not a Papist, but will ••asely confesse, that there is not a saint, which hath vertue nor power, but so much as God will giue vnto him.

Hillarius.

I haue my meaninge, and I will nowe make thée ye••de thy selfe vanquished. For thou hast al∣readie confessed vnto me of thine owne prop•••• mo••th, & hast co••firmed my proposition, the which I ••••l yet bet∣ter proue vnto thee, and I will conclu••e all our dispu••a∣••ion in a little sillogisme. And I will take for my Maior and for the first proposition of my antecedent, that which thou hast confessed vnto me. Take then my Syll••gisme. God hath more power and authoritie then the Saintes. Nowe the Pope is God. ••••go, the Pope hath more pow∣er and authoritie then the Saints. The Maior is alreadie confessed by thee. It resteth now but for to pr••ue the Mi∣nor, and the second proposition: and afterwards the con∣sequence and conclusion s••albe cert••ine and ••••••uby••able. Nowe but that the Pope is God in ••arth, thou ca••st not d••ny••st, for many reasons, the which I will not n••we sh••we forth. But I will do more. For I will pr••ue, that he is not onely the God on earth, but which is more, in heauen and in hell, and that he doth make things which God neuer did make.

Theophilus.

By that accempt, the Pope then shall not haue not only more power then the Saints, but more then God himselfe.

Hillarius.

It is very true, and thou thy selfe shalt Iudge it, prouided that thou do heare my reasons. I will not alledge for confirmation of my theame, that which saint Paul hath written of Antechrist, the man of sinne, the sonne of perdition, which exalteth himselfe aboue all that is called god, or which is worshipped, so y^• he shal sit as god in the Temple of God, and shew himselfe as God: Notwithstanding that that Prophecie and titles doe agrée meruaylously well to that God of whom we speake. But I will procéede by an other way, the which shall serue for an exposition of those words of Saynt Paul.

Theophilus.

If thou doest as thou sayst the Pope and all the Papists shall be much bounde vnto thée. For they say onely that he is God in earth. Now if he be but God in the earth, he hath then nothing in heauen: And he must not open the gates of Paradise vnto the soules of Purga∣tory. And so I may serue my selfe with their publyque witnesse, for to proue that which I said of his keyes, which cannot be stretched foorth out of this earth.

Hillarius.

A man may easely reply thereon. For accor∣ding to their doctrine, Purgatory is in the earth. Where∣fore, sith hat he is God in earth, he may well haue some po∣wer. There should be an other reason, if Purgatory were betweee the Moone and the earth, where Plutarch putteth it: except they will say that with the earth they doe also compare the ayre and all the other elements, making the Pope aswell God in the ayre, water and fire, as in the earth: at the least thou wilt not deny, but that he may wel haue the keyes of hell, for to leade thether the soules: and that he is the God of the same, if it be in the center of the earth, according to the common opinion of his Doctors. But for to come vnto the matter, thou which art a The∣ologian knowest, that there be two manner of wayes to see and know God. There is a manner to sée him before: a•••• a manner to see him behinde. To see him before, that is to say in his beeing, glory, and maiestie, it is not giuen vnto mortall man. For he shall not be capable of such vi∣sion

and knowledge. And therefore hée aunswered vnto Moses, who desired to see his glory, that he should not sée it before, but he would shew vnto him onely his hinder and backe parts. I doe vnderstand and meane according to that which I haue learned of some Theologians, that to see and know the backe partes of God, that is to see and know him by his workes, by his effects, and in his crea∣tures. For sith that he is incomprehensible vnto man in his substaunce, glory and maiestie, the way and manner that he hath giuen vnto man for to know him, is this: to witte, by his word: by his workes: by his effects: and his creatures: with which man ought to content himselfe without enquiring curiously of the nature and essence of God, the which we cannot comprehende. For we haue no neede to enquire what ••e is in himselfe: but what he is to∣wards vs: the which he hath manifested vnto vs chiefely by Iesus Christ his sonne: by the workes that hée hath done and made in him & by him, and that he doth alwaies. And y^e maner of knowledge, after the maner of y^e speaking of y^e dialecticians & Logitians, may be called A posteriori. I will then proue A posteriori, the deite of y^e Pope: that is to saye, by his workes and by his effects.

Thomas.

I will make heere a lyttle incident or state. Thou hast now altogether astemed mée, in hearing thée speake. For thou art runne more déeper and profounder in Theologie, then euer Theophilus hath yet done, which neuerthelesse is a better Diuine and Theologian then thou art.

Hillarius.

I haue also learned the greatest parte of that which I know of Theologie of him. But I woulde also that thou shouldest know, that notwithstanding that you doe accompt me but for a foole and a babler, yet I am notwithstanding some thing wiser then you doe thinke, but that wisdome continueth not with mee much.

For I will now cast my selfe into an other Theologie, contrary vnto this. Yet neuerthelesse for to enter therevn∣to, and the better to declare the difference that is betwéene

the diuine Theologie and the Theologie Papall, I will beginne my probation by the author••tie of Ieremie saying: Can a man make those his gods? He rebuketh the Idola∣trie of the people of Israel, and therefore he maketh that demaund, as of a thing impossible. For how can a man make gods, sith that he cannot be made himselfe, if God doe not make him? How shal he then make gods?

Yet neuerthelesse the Pope attributeth that power vnto himselfe. Wherefore it must néedes be that he be more then man: yea more then God. For we doe not read that God did euer make gods, to take God in his proper signi∣fication. For he alone will be God, and there can be no more but one alone: or otherwise he should not be God. Except we will doe as Plato, to haue a great God, which maketh other lyttle gods. Therefore hath he sayd that he is God, and that he will not giue his glory and power to none o∣ther. But the Pope taketh authoritie and power not one∣ly to make Gods and Saints, but also to vnmake them a∣gayne: the which I will proue vnto thée briefely. And without alleadgeing many examples for to auoyde proli••∣itie, I will put foorth but one, by which one may iudge of the others. I will take Boniface the eight of whom Platin giueth this witnes, for y^• ep••loge & conclusion of his legend, saying: In this sort & maner died Boniface, he which enfor∣ced himself more to giue terror & fear vnto emperors, kings princes, nations & people, then to induce & lead thē in religi¦on: & which endeuoured himself to giue & take away king∣domes: to chase & banish men & to bring them againe at his pleasure: hauing more greater thirst and desire of the gold, the which he got out of al parts, more then one could de∣clare. Now this differeth not from that which the Decrées and Canons d•• witnesse of the power. of the Pope, saying: That it aperteineth vnto him that he may giue, take away, chaunge transport the empires & kingd••ms, principalites & s••ig••••or••es, as many amōg thē of long time haue practised, and shewed by effect, of whom the examples shalbe to long to rehearse. Now we cannot deny, but that y^• same is an act

proper vnto God alone, according to the witnesse of Da∣n••el and of all the Prophets. Sith then that the pope vsur∣peth vnto himselfe, that is already a c••rt••••ne witnesse of his de••tie: And without abandoning and forsaking Boni∣face, he himselfe did not sh••w himselfe ne••lygent in that matter, agaynst Philip king of Fraunce, of whom he de∣maunded the Arch••••a••ry of Na••bon, for to declare vnto him, that if he did not release out of pr••s••n a Bish••ppe which by him was sent thether, that his kingdome was co••••••••a•••• vnto the Church, and that the king was excom∣municated and cursed: and that he would delyuer and ab∣solue all the Frenchmen of the oath and f••a••t•••• that they made vnto the king.

Theophilus.

Behold there a goodly acte of deitie. But there is nothing which is more common vnto them then that.

H••ll••rius. I will yet declare vnto thée of others which are no lesse aua••leable, the which Plati•••• rehearseth in like maner. What do y^• words signifie y^• he sayd vnto Prochet the Archbishop of Genes, when he did cast down himselfe at his f••••te vpon Ashwed••••sday? Wher the Priests were accustomed to say: Remember man that thou art ashes, and into ashes thou shalt ••etourne agayne: he sayde vnto him, in chaunging some words: Remember man that thou art a Gibell•• and with the Gibelli••s thou shalt retourne into ashes. And after that he had sayd vnto him that, hée did not put the ashes vpon the head as the custome is, but did cast them in his eyes, and depriued him of his Arch∣bishoprick••: Afterwardes he restored ••t to him agayne, when he did vnderstand that the Card••••als were n••t 〈◊〉〈◊〉∣red and come from Genes. Thou doest héere s•••• that hée maketh and vnmaketh Bishops, as he lyst, and speaketh as a God: He maketh men to r••t••••••n•• into ashes, euen as from ashes they came. And for to make that goodly act shew the fayrer, I wil rehearse vnto the two others, which are yet more better witnesses of the Popish d••••tie.

The first is of Stephen the sixt, who wa•• so mad against

Pope Formosus, that after that he had taken his counsel, caused his body to be taken out of his tombe, afterwardes spoiled him of his pontifical & Popish apparel, and in stéed of them caused him to ••ée cladded with laye mens appa∣rell, and did cut off the two fingers of the right hande, the which the Priestes vsed in their consecration, afterwards, caused them to be cast into the ••••ud Tiber, and commaun∣ded that he should be buryed as a lay man, in the graue and burial o•• y^• lay men. Now consider, ••f one Pope hath such power ouer an other Pope, which neuerthelesse is God, and not onely God, but can make God, and vnma∣kers of Goddes, which doe take power of him to make Gods, let vs thinke what power hée can haue ouer others. For in the time that Formosus was Pope, he could not haue bene in the Popedome, nor in the order of Priest∣hoode, but y^• hée did make Gods, of his two fingers which were cut off, and cast into Tyber. Furthermore, how ma∣ny Cardinals, Bishops, Priestes, and Monkes were made during his Popedome: which all of them were forgers, and makers of Gods? And yet neuerthelesse they could not haue that power but of him. Wherefore one might right∣ly say of him: The Lord, the God of Gods. For there is not a Priest of how smal learning soeu••r he be, which ac∣cording to their doctrine, but dareth to attribute vnto him∣selfe the power to make Gods. For which I will haue none other witnesse, but their booke, intituled Stella cle∣ricorum, in which are written such woordes: O howe venerable is the dignitie of the Priests, betwéene whose handes the sonne of God is incarnate, as in the wombe of the Virgin: And afterwardes speaking•• ••n the person of the Priest. Hee which hath created mée, hath giuen me power to create him. Hée which hath created me with∣out mée, is created by the meanes of mée. Afterwardes, hée concludeth: sith then that the Priest is of so greate a dignitie, that hée is the creator and maker of his crea∣tor, and of euery creature, it is not conuenient to loose or damne him. They do•• finde it inconuenient that God

should damp••e the priests, bicause that they are the crea∣tors of hun. And yet neuerthelesse the popes may wel con∣dempne the popes, yea, out of this world, sithence that they are before God their souereigne Iudge, which are not one∣ly priests, but which is more, doe make the priests. Doest thou finde this straunge Thomas?

Thomas.

To speake the truth, those Gods doe handle very euill the one the other.

Hillarius.

I doubt not but that which pope Stephen hath done vnto Formosus, doth not séeme straunge vnto thée. But pope Sergius the third hath done vnto him worse.

Thomas.

Then that poore soule Formosus was most vnhappy after his death. They haue done against the pro∣uerbe, which forbiddeth to fight with the dead.

Hillarius.

Thou maist haue well sayd it, if thou hadst heard the hi∣story all out. The crueltie of L. Sylla against Marius was not so great. But I thincke neuerthelesse but that those popes haue takē their patron vpon him. For so did he cause Marius to be taken out of y^• earth after y^• he was dead to be auenged of him. And Sylla fearing that one should not doe to him the like after he was dead, commaunded that his body should be burned. For vntill his time the famel∣ly of which he came off, accustomed to bury the bodyes of the dead, and had not as yet burned them as others did. But for to retourne vnto Sergius, thou must vnderstande. First, that he hath so reproued all the actes of Formosus, that those whom Formosus did make priestes, shoulde re∣tourne againe to take their orders of him, iudging those vnworthy to be priests whom Formosus had made, if they did not the same. And not being content to haue done that dishonour vnto Formosus after his death, caused his body to be taken out of the sepulchre againe, and did not onely cut off the fingers, or the hand, as Stephen his predecessor did, but did cut of his head as a malefactor, euen so as though he were a liue. Afterwardes did cast the body into the stud ••yber, as vnworthy of buriall and humaine ho∣nour. ••hou canst not now denie Theophilus, but that the popes haue power ••oth ouer the Gods, and ouer the quick

and the dead. And for more greater confirmation hereoff, they haue their Canons, which do giue vnto them power to iudge, not onely the quicke but also ouer the dead, and to excommunicate & accurse the hereticks, but which to more, Pope Boniface hath better declared his diuine power, a∣gainst S. Harman, whose body and bones he caused to bee digged vp, whō those of Ferrara haue honoured & accomp∣ted for a Saint already the space of xx. yeares, & condemp∣ned him for an heretick, and burned him: As some say that they haue also done y^• like of wikchf, who neuertheles was of better learning thē his aduersaries. But that same is al∣waies common to all the papistical sect, as de Roma the de∣filer of the faith hath well confirmed it those yeares past, in two poore faithfull Christians at Aix in Prouence. Hée hath stocked & imprisoned them so much, & hath so scorched and burned their feete & anckles within their bootes, which he filled with grease, and so putting to fire, that those poore people & martyrs of Iesus Christ could not tary the time to be altogether burned, but they died whilest that he was absent, & were buried by y^• hangmā in vnhallowed ground, bicause that they were accompted by them for heretickes. Yet neuerthelesse that cruel tyrant de Roma could not be contented w^t all that, but was very angry bicause they bu∣ried them, & caused thē to dig thē vp againe, & to burne the being dead, sith y^• he could not burne thē being aliue. On y^• contrary, euen as Boniface, hath caused this S. Ha••man to be digged vp & to be condemned for an hereticke & bu••ned him, who neuerthelesse was accōpted for a Saint•• he hath also canonised S. Lewes, who was of y^• bloud roial, who as some men say, was professed of y^• order of S. Fraunces. Also in like manner, pope, Felix & Gregory haue ordeined that one should celebrate yearely, feasts & sacrifices in y^• memo∣ry of y^• martyrs. Now what other thing is y^• but to iudge thē saints & to deify them? But to y^• end y^• euery one do not attribute vnto themselues the power to make Gods as the popes, & that euery one do not honor him y^• cōmeth in their fantasy. Pope Alexander y^• third hath ordeined y^• no man

should be holden and accompted for a Saint, and that no diuine honour shoulde be attributed vnto him except that he were first inrolled among the Saintes and canonised, by the commaundement and ordinaunce of the Apostolical seate. That commaundement and degrée is written in the decretals, in the title of the reliques of Saints. Sith then that he canoniseth and maketh Saintes, afterwards when they are made he vnmaketh them, it followeth then that he maketh and vnmaketh the Gods, & that he is Iudge both of the quicke and of the dead. For all that is God vnto man to whom he giueth the honour due vnto God. Now we cannot denie but that the superstitious and Idolaters do giue vnto their Saintes and vnto dead men, the ••onor due vnto God alone. Wherefore it followeth that they are their Gods, as well as to the Idolaters, those whom they haue accompted for Gods, which neuerthelesse were dead men, which haue ben canonised by the kings, Princes and Senates, and the cōmon errour of the people, euen as the pope & the superstitious do yet vse at this day. Sith then that the pope maketh and vnmaketh such Gods, which are dead men, and iudgeth, condempneth, and absolueth them, it followeth then that he is the Iudge of the quicke & the dead: the which is also declared, by the example of y^• Empe∣rour Henry y^• fourth, who was excōmunicated: afterwards was put into a cruel prison, in y^• citie of Liege, by his pro∣per and onely sonne, in the which he was strangled: and so as many do affirme, by the commaundement of his owne sonne, who secretly sent vnto him the hangman. And ther∣fore for that he dyed excommunicated, hée was not bury∣ed in the holy ground, vntil that he was absolued and de∣liuered from his excōmunicating, after his death, by y^• pope: by y^• meanes of which absolution, hée was caried to Spire, to the sepulchre of his fathers. Wilt thou now deny, that the pope hath not more power then the Saintes, & that he is not greater Lord then Iesus Christ, & asmuch to be fea∣red or rather more then God? For Iesus Christ hath said, & witnessed ••••••rely, that his kingdome is not of this world.

But the Pope will haue it both in this world and in the other. Furthermore, he admonisheth vs not to feare those which can but onely kill the body and do no more, but let vs feare him onely which is able to destroye both body and soule and to cast them into hell. Sith then that the Pope attributeth vnto himselfe such power, that after that y^• he hath killed the bodyes, he persecuteth stil the soules after the body is dead, and excommunicateth the dead and sendeth them into hell, who will deny that he is not God, and that he may not vse the authoritie of his keyes, as well towardes the dead, as towards the liuing? And that his buls and pardons doe not extend and stretch foorth vn∣to the dead and to the soules of Purgatory? As it appea∣reth by the doing of Pope Sixtus the fourth, Innocent the eight, Pascale the fift, Calistus, and a great many other Popes which haue giuen full remission by their buls and indulgences both to the quicke and the dead: And often∣times for small causes: As for to goe and visite a certeine Chappell: to make a certeine voyage, and other like mat∣ters: But vpon condition, that he haue alwayes ready mo∣ney. And the better to witnesse that Popish deitie, Pope Boniface the eight would not haue his Iubile among the Christians, as God had it amonge the Israelites, but of an other sort. For God ordeined the yeare of the great Iu∣bile, from fiftie yeares to fiftie yeares, for to comfort the poore people: for to render and restore the wages and pos∣sessions vnto the poore that are in debt: for to deliuer the poore bondmen out of seruitude & bondage, and for to prefi∣gure and foreshew the yeare of grace, and the deliuerance & liberty which Iesus Christ ought to bring vnto the Chri∣stian people, according to the prophesie of Esay and of the other prophets. But the Pope Boniface in the yeare 1300 as if Iesus Christ was not come, and that he had not by his comming declared vnto vs the yeare of y^• great Iubile, which shall indure vntill the ende of the worlde, & by the which we are affranchised frō the ser••tude of sinne, death, diuell, and of hell, as putting himselfe in the place of Iesus

Christ, hath constitute•• his Iubile, by the which he hath promised full remission of sinnes, vnto all those which will come visite at Rome the Chu••ch of Saint Peter, and of Saint Paul: And hath commaunded that it should be al∣wayes celebrated from an hundreth yeares vnto an hun∣dreth yeares. For he feareth least the olde custome of the auncient Panims should in succession of time be altoge∣ther abolished.

Thomas.

What custome?

Hillarius.

They haue accusto∣med to play in the honor of their Gods, iests, histories and diuers other playes, which they do call seculer playes, bi∣cause they do not celebrate it but from an hundreth to an hundreth yeares. And therefore the Heraldes doe crye which declare and publish them: Come & sée the games the which none of you shal neuer se any more.

Eusebius.

But Boniface hath done cleane contrary to that y^• thou sayest. For he hath constituted the Iubile for to abolish the me∣mory of those Panish plaies.

Hillarius.

He hath chaunged playes into playes, and those which profited him nothing at all he hath chaunged thē into others more profitable for him. But the other Popes which came afterwards, seing and perceiuing that that Iubile was too long for them, and that they could not haue so good a part for their pray, haue abrogated and made shorter the time. And therefore Pope Clement the sixt hath remitted it frō 50. years to 50. years. And after him, Pope Sextus the fourth, who hath dei••ied and put among the saints. S. Bonauenture, hath agayne remitted it from xxv. yeares to xxv. years: and hath celebra∣ted the first, in the yeare 1475. Afterwards, Alexander the sixt, who was pope in the yeare 1500. following the exam∣ple of Sextus, hath yet better enlarged that Iubile. For ••e hath not onely held & kept it at Rome, but hath so enlar∣ged it thorowout all Christendome, that there remayneth almost no citie, village, nor parish, but that he hath made them p••rta••ers of it.

Thomas.

They may then bée well called Gods liuetenaunts in earth. For sith that they do it 〈◊〉〈◊〉 y^• ••••••t, Iesus Christ is well at leasure. He ••ught to haue

no great care, neither for the quicke nor for the dead, sith that he hath such liuetenauntes: we shall bée compelled to chaunge our Credo, and whereas in the same we con∣sesse that he shall come from heauen for to be the Iudge of the quicke and the dead, we must giue that title vnto the Pope.

Hillarius,

A good Sophister wil easily absolue thy doubt. For wee confesse that Iesus Christ shall come at the time appointed. Wherefore they will conclude that Iesus Christ is not yet really and in euery déede, Iudge of the quicke and of the dead, but that he shalbe: Or if thou wilt that I doe tell thée in their language: That he is Iudge, Non actu sed habitu & aptitudine, but that the Pope is, not onely in power remote & future, but actu, & in poten∣tra propinqua propinquissima: that is to say, of act, d••ede, worke and power néere and present.

Thomas.

Beholve a goodly solution. In the meane while then, Iesus Christ shal rest, and the Pope shall doc••all.

Theophilu••.

I am abashed, if their buls, indulgences & pardons haue such power. How Gregory hath passed them ouer, without making any mencion of them, when he com∣prehended all the meanes by which the liuing, might com∣fort the soules of purgatory. For hée did put a••d declare ••nt foure, and touched not one word of the buls and par∣dons. But there is yet an other pointe, that which y^• doctor Hostiensis, which is of great reputatiō among the papises, was not of opinion that the pope can doe such thinges by his pardons and indulgences, but hath holden the contra∣ry. ••ea, and the other doctors, as Bonauenture, Thomas of Aquin, Alexander of Ales, Giles, D••rand, Richard, Peter of Tarentais••, and many other like, hau•• had sometime the thing in doubt, and haue onely disputed of it, as of an opi∣nion: afterwardes haue taken vpon them baldnesse to de∣fine vpon it, and to giue their sentence, as if they were wel assured of it. But if that which they do write of the buls and pardons be true, it is great felly for the papistes, to bestowe any more any pennye, nor halfe pennye,

neither for the funerals, nor for y^• masses, vigils, nor other suffrages for y^• dead, & that they should reiect a•• other man∣ner of doings, for to hold themselues onely to y^• buls & par∣dons, and to buy them for to draw the s••ules from Purga∣tory. For it should not cost them so much, & should haue soo∣ner dispatched & ri•• away the poore soules from Purgato∣ry. For if the Pope hath in his hands the treasure of the Church, & hath the power, as Alexander de Ales witnes∣seth, by the power of his keys, & by the meanes of his indul∣gences to distribute & bestow them, as wel to the liuing as to the dead, the Papistes haue no more néede of any other thing. For euen as they haue by their Masses and other in∣u••ntions, abolished & put out the vertue of the death and passion, and of the sacrifice of Iesus Christ, so the Popes, which haue bene the authors of the buls and indulgences haue abolished masses, suffrages, & al meritorious works, for the quicke & for the dead, which their predec••ssors haue inuented, without the word of God. And so by that meanes one shal haue no more néede, not onely of Iesus Christ, but also of their masses, nor of all that that they can do: but it is sufficient for al, to haue paper & parchment written, and buls signed & sealed with waxe or with lead. ••ut which is more, I am very much abashed, how they dare to attribute so much power ouer y^• dead, to their buls, keys & absolutiōs, sith that the Pope Gelasius and their decre••als & Canons doe witnesse and openly confesse, that the church can bind•• and vnbinde those y^• be liuing, & not the dead: and that w••e doe not read, that the same was euer cōmaunded or done, not of Iesus Christ himselfe, which al••ne hath the power to do that. But hath said namely vnto S. Peter: Al that that thou shalt binde or vnbinde vpon the earth, shalbe bound in heauē. He hath said namely, vpon earth. For he hath neuer sayd, that he that shalbe dead being bound shalbe vnb••und. Beholde the very wordes of the Canons, which doe well way the wordes of Iesus Christ, and doe confirme y^• that I haue said, of the authoritie of the keyes, at the least in this place: in which is said very plainely, that by those

words of the gospell is declared, that none can be excom∣municated, or absolued a••ter he is dead. For he saith: That which thou shalt binde or vnbinde vppon earth. He sayth not vnder the earth, declaring that we may binde and vn binde those that be alyue, for y^• diuersitie of their merits but we cannot giue sentence of the dead. Beholde the question that Gratian propounded, & the resolution in his owne words.

Thomas.

How can that agrée with that which hath bene alreadie alleadged of the very Canons, which doe giue power to excommunicate the Hereticks after they be dead. It must néeds be that the canons be contrary the one vnto the other.

Theophilus.

That is not newe nor rare with them. But the glosers doe excuse that by their interpretacions and exceptions. I doe not denye, but that we may con∣dempne dempne after that one is deade the false doctrine that a man and an Hereticke shall holde during his lyfe, if then it be manifested, euen as it might bée done by some of them of whom they doe alleadge the examples, for to ad∣uertise the Churches, to the ende that the faythfull might the better kéepe themselues. But to excommunicate and curse the persons, I knowe or sée not how that can bée bo••ne with all by the holy Scripture, ••ith that they are be∣fore theyr Iudge, vnto whome the Angells did sende the Diuell, as is written of Michael the Archangell, who disputing with the Diuell about the body of Mo••es, durst not vse rayling iudgement agaynst him, but said vnto him: The Lord rebuke thée: Yet neuerthelesse those heere dare to enterprise more agaynst men both quick and dead, then the Angells durst agaynst the Diuels: although that they holde them already for most certe••••e to be condemp••••ed of God.

Hillarius.

I am yet abashed of one thing. If the Pope haue such power to giue full remission from payne and fault by his bulles & moulgences, aswell for the quick as for the soules of the dead, I meruayle that hée hath not

already long sithence made empti•• and cleansed Purga∣tory: and that he hath not fetched out all the soules, sith that he giueth so many pardons dayly and hourely, and not only he, but al ••is Cardinals, bishops, priests & monks.

Eusebius.

There is a goodly aunswere vnto that questi∣on. The first is, for that there goeth euery day new into Purgatory. The other is, euen as Saint Thomas & saint Bonauenture doe aunswere vnto that obiection, that it is very requisite and needefull, before that the indulgence and pardon be auayleable, that it haue reasonable cause: and that the dispensation of the goods and treasure of y^e church (in which are assembled and comprised al the merits of Ie∣sus Christ & all the merits of al the Saints and Saintes, which euer were) should be done with moderation and dis∣cression: or otherwise god will not accept it. And there∣for the pardons & indulgences are not giuen vnto any per∣son, eyther for him or for any other, be he quicke or dead, but by reason of some good worke that he hath done, ey∣ther for him selfe, or in the name of those for whome the pardon is giuen. And therefore is lymitted the power of all those which haue the charge to giue them, & al do know, be they Cardinals, Archbishops, Bishops, Abbots, Moonks or Priests, how many they may giue euery day: except the Pope, which hath not his power limitted, except he vse thē vnreasonably, y^e pardōs thē y^t he wil giue, shal not be auai∣leable w^t god.

Hillarius.

I vnderstand what thou wouldest say. The pope hath heaped vp together all y^e merits of Ie∣sus Christ, of the patriarchs, prophets, Apos;tles, Martirs, confessors, virgins, saints & saintes of paradise, & of al the Christian Church in a treasure, and a garner of which he alone hath the keyes and can open or shut, & distribute lit∣tle or much, when he will and as it pleaseth him. For he is the great lockesimth. But al the others are but as his seruaunts, of whom he lymitteth the power and the of∣fice of euery one, in such sort, that they cannot distribute, but that that he hath delyuered vnto them, and of whom they haue the keyes. Wherefore if it behoueth that hée

haue in y^e treasury & garner a great many of seuerall chā∣bers and cabins, of which many must haue the keyes e∣uery one his owne, for to depart and bestow that where∣off he hath the dispensation, without daring to touche the rest, except that sometimes, those lyttle varlets and locke∣smithes doe picke the locke and the dore of the great lok∣smith and great treasurer, he knowing nothing thereoff, and that he be not therewithall content: although that vn∣der his name and title, they streth foorth their power, as séemeth good vnto them, and doe forge keyes, bulles and pardons as many as they lyst, and alwaies at the costs of the poore people. Now the great lockesmith hath no lymit, but that he hath alwaies reasonable cause, for to giue buls and pardons as many as one woulde, so that money doe come: or otherwise he will suffer the poore soules to be rosted and tormented in Purgatory, as long as the world shall continue, for want of one leafe of paper or parchment with a lyttle waxe and leade. As concerning the others which haue the daies limitted that they may giue pardons, I haue a certeine doubt, the which I would y^t I were re∣solued of it by thée Eusebius. For sith y^t the one hath power to giue two or thrée thousand, an other two or thrée hun∣dreth, an other an hundreth fiftie, fortie, thirtie or twentie, either more or lesse. I would gladly know of thée what horologes & clocks, & what quadrans they haue in purga∣ry, for to measure those dayes there. For sith that there is no sun, moone nor stars, what daies & what yeres can they haue? For the time is taken of the morning, of the hea∣uen & of y^e course of y^e sunne. But those which are in pur∣gatory, haue nothing of al this: Wherfore I cannot com∣prehend what yeres, what months, dayes & houres they can haue: & whether they be very long or short. As far as I can imagine, by an exāple which Antonius Florentin re∣citeth in his sum, y^e daies ought ther to be meruailous lōg. For he saith, that an Angell caryed thether a soule of a man, to whome hée promised, that it shoulde tary there but an houre. And as soone as that Angell did come

agayne to see that soule, it did begin to crye out vpon him, and to call him lyer, deceiuer and traytor.

Thomas.

To what purpose?

Hillarius.

It sayd vnto him: Thou hast promised me, that I should be but an houre and I haue bene heere alrea∣dy more then an hundreth yeres. But the Angel aunswe∣red vnto him: There wanteth a great many my friende. For thou hast not yet taryed a quarter of an houre.

Wherefore I doe conclude, that it must needes be that the dayes and yeares be there very long, sith that a quarter of an houre is there compared to a hundreth or thousande yeares of ours: or els that the fire is there meruaylous hotte, and that the time continueth long to the poore soules.

Eusebius.

I will tell thée as touching the pardons, it hath bene long time sithence, that many people doe know that there is in them great abuses. Wherefore I will not much breake my braynes to maynteine them.

Theophilus,

I doe also iudge it lost time to speake of such abuse, if I did not sée y^t sithence y^e time of Gregory, so many people to haue bene abused, & that so many great Doctors, which are most estéemed amongst the Sophisters and Schoolemen, haue written of it, and haue confirmed it so assuredly.

Hillarius.

I know that thou doest beginne already Eu∣sebius, to agree with vs. I beléeue that thou art of this o∣pinion, that the Pope ought to let the dead rest, without reigning ouer them, sith that they haue more power ouer the Pope, then the Pope ouer them: as I will proue it by an example taken from the Autentike booke, which is intituled the conformities of Saint Fraunces. For I haue neuer read that the Pope hath raysed to lyfe any dead per∣son, and that he came to aunswere before him, of all those whom he hath cyted, condempned, absolued, or excommu∣nicated. But that booke doth witnesse manifestly that Fryer Walter a Cordelier and Bishop of Poytiers, hath caused to be cyted after his death by a Cedule, Pope Cle∣ment the firt, for to appeare before the eternall Iudge,

bicause that he had vniustly deposed him from his office.

Thomas.

And did the Pope appeare there by vertue of that Cytacion?

Hillarius.

If the booke lye not, that was no iest. For at the verye same daye which was prescribed vnto him, the Pope dyed of a sodeyne death, and departed so∣deinely for to goe and aunswere there. What sayest thou by this Eusebius? If this history be false, it is a great dishonor for the Cardeliers, who do make great accompt of that booke, and doe holde it to be very pretious among them, as a relicke, and reuelation. And for the Pope al∣so which hath confirmed the order of saint Fraunces, and of the foure Mendicants. I know not what good meanes we may héere finde for to maynteine that buylding, and the honour and authoritie both of the one and of the other. For sith that the Pope hath confirmed the order of Saint Fraunces, the order of saint Fraunces is buylded and stai∣ed vppon the Pope, wherefore when the Pope shall fall, which is the stone and foundation of that Church and of that buylding, also shall fall the buylding, the order and the rule of y^e Mendicants. Now we cannot deny, but y^t ex∣ample doth ruinate & ouerthrow y^e Pope & all his power. I do not dispute whether y^t the history be true or false. For I beléeue that is as true as it is true y^t the Pope is God, & saint Fraunces conformable & agréeing to Iesus Christ, as y^t booke ful of blasphemies enforceth it selfe to proue it. But I consider onely, that sith that the Cordeliers haue written such an history, & do maynteine it by their bookes, that they doe abate asmuch the authoritie and power of the Pope, as the Pope doth confirme their rule and order. For how can this witnesse agrée, with this proposition? The Pope cannot erre? And with the exposition which Eccius and his lyke doe make of those words? Thou arte Peter and vppon that rocke I will buylde my congregati∣on, and the gates of hell shall not preuayle agaynst it.

If the Pope be that rocke or stone, and that stone is fal∣len, it must néedes be that all the Popish church doe fall

with it, and the orders of the foure Mendicants, which are his foure Euangelysts, and his principall pillers. And so by that meanes the Cordeliers whome the Pope hath made, doe vnmake the Pope, which hath made them, and the creature vnmaketh his creator, and the creator his creatures.

Theophilus.

It chaunced to them, as to the Madianits, which destroyed themselues the one the other, with their owne weapons, when they heard the sound of the trom∣pets, and pitchers of the army of Gedeon, and saw the lyght of his torches. So in lyke manner sith that Iesus Christ, our true Gedeon, hath put the trompets of his gos∣pell. into the handes of his lyttle army, the which, by ver∣tue of his holy spirite, he maketh to sounde euen vnto the endes of the worlde, and causeth the lyght of his worde and gospell to shine thorow out the earth, we ought not to doubt, but that all those Madianits shal be in short time discouraged and discom••ited, according to the Prophecie of Esay: notwithstanding that the flocke and company of Iesus Christ be lyttle. For it is puissant inough by vertue of their capitayne: besides that they themselues shall bée discomfited with their owne swerde, and shall fall into ruine, with their Purgatory which hath but a lyttle hold or stay except thou do bring vnto it agayne some stone and morter for to repaire and amende it.

Eusebius.

I will employ all the meanes or wayes that I can finde out. And therefore marke and regard how thou shalt ryd and discharge thy selfe of that which is written in Saint Luke. where Iesus Christ saith: The seruaunt that knoweth his masters will and prepareth net himselfe neyther did according to his will, shall bée beaten with many stripes: But he that knew not his masters will, and yet did committe many things worthy of stripes, shal be beaten with few stripes. Now it is euen so, that in hell there is neither little nor much. For the paynes there are infinite. And therefore it is called the hell fire, the er∣treame darkenes. Wherefore it followeth that that pathe

of which is heere spoken off, cannot be vnderstanded but of the same of Purgatory, in which may be more or lesse.

Theophilus.

There should be no hell if thou wilt so interprete the scripture. What opinion hast thou of those of Sodome and Gomorrha: Doest thou thinke that they be in hell or in Purgatory?

Eusebius.

I beleeue that they are in hell: sith that their iniquitie hath bene so great, that it must needes bee that God hath consumed them, thorowe the fire of his iudge∣ment.

Theophilus.

If there were founde among them some, who féelyng the iudgement of God vppon them, haue re∣membred the preaching & admonitions which Loth made vnto them by the word of god, and which haue had repen∣taunce and were sory for their sinnes, in requiring mercie of God with a good heart and good affection in the middest of the fire: I will not maynteine that God hath refused vnto them grace and mercie. For he hath promised vnto the sinner, as often as with a good heart he shall retourne vnto him. Now if there be any such among them, I leaue that to the iudgement of God, who knoweth all things and those that are his. For he punisheth sometimes some men with corporall paynes, with the reprobate, the which notwithwanding he condempneth not with them to eter∣nall dampnation, he punisheth them corporally, as he cha∣stiseth and correcteth his elect by aff••ictions, eyther bi∣cause that they haue bene neglygent in rebuking the wic∣ked and vicious: or els that they haue giuen some con∣sent vnto their vices, and haue not hadde in recommen∣dation the honour of GOD as they ought to haue had.

But bicause that they haue not abidden and continued hard hearted, & haue not sinned against the holy Ghost, the Lord mittigateth their payne, and is contented to chastice and correct them corporally, for to humble them, to make them to acknowledge their faulte, and for to bée an example vnto others: As the Apostle witnesseth of

the Corinthians, who for the dispising of the Supper of Iesus Christ, were chastised of God with diseases and death. Such might be the kindred of Loth. For it is not lyke to be true that Loth woulde haue taken allyaunce with them, if they had ben altogether as abhominable as the others of the citie. Yet neuertheles bicause they were vnbeleeuing & of incredulytie, and that they lyghtly regar∣ded all things, they were punished with the others, for to giue others to vnderstande, that it is not good to dwell among the wicked and to support their iniquitie. Yet neuerthelesse I leaue the same to the iudgement of God, who knoweth the hearts. But I onely speake this to the ende we doée not iudge rashly of his secrets and iudge∣ments, & except we haue expresse reuelation: but those that haue perseuered in such a heart and such affection as they had, when they would haue done vyolence vnto Loth, and to his guests which he had receyued into his house, and are dead in that wicked minde, I doubt not but that they are perished. For we haue the expresse word of god, of the condempnation of such persons. For I doubt not that of those Iesus Christ speaketh not, when hée spake vnto his Apostles, of those which re••ected the preaching of the Gospell: Verely I say vnto you, that those of So∣doma and Gomorrha shall be handeled more easely in the day of Iudgemet then those there. In what place shall be that handlyng? That shall not be in Paradise. For where there is no payne, there néedeth no mitigation. Neyther shall it be in Purgatory: For according to your owne doctrine, it shall then cease. It must néedes be then in hell.

Eusebius.

But how can that be in hell, sith that the paine there is infinite.

Theophilus.

Thou must vnderstande, that there is not so lyttle a payne, which is not infinite and importa∣ble, vnto him which is forsaken of God, but yet neuer∣thelesse God may and can make his iudgement, his wrath and indignation to be felt vnto some more then to other

some. But it followeth not therefore, but that all men are constrained to cary it, and but that it is a burthen im∣portable to all men. Therefore it is so often written, that those which shal haue most sinned shal be most punished. Now those vnto whome God hath giuen more fauour and grace, and hath giuen more knowledge of his wil, then the others, doe sinne most griuously. For they declare a more greater ingratitude, malice and stubbernesse, & haue lesse excuse. But it followeth not therefore, that the igno∣rance and negligence doth excuse the others, but that they haue their part, Iesus Christ manaseth with a more grie∣uouser iudgement those which shall reiect his Gospell bi∣cause that God hath shewed vnto them more grace and fauour, then vnto the Sodomites and Gomorrians. Wher∣fore they doe render themselues more culpable and in∣excusable. But although that the Gospell hath not bene preached so cléerely and plainly vnto the Sodomites & Go∣morians, as vnto vs, yet Iesus Christ doth not excuse them therefore altogether, nor absolueth them of the iudgement of God. But for to amplyfie the ingratitude & malice of those which reiect the benediction and blessing of God, he compareth them to the most execrablest that euer were v∣pon the earth. Not for to iustifie the others, but the better to confound those héere, demonstrating vnto thē that their iniquitie is so abhominable, that God condempneth thom whiche maye bée accompted and taken for good men, in comparison of these: not that they are, but in com∣parison of the excessiue iniquitie of those héere. After this manner we must vnderstand that place of S. Luke, without dreaming out a Purgatorye. For the paine of which Iesus Christ speaketh off, maye bée héere in this worlde: or at the daye of iudgement: or in hell, as the same of the Sodomites, Gomorrians and their lyke. Or thou shalt bée constrayned to put into Pargatorye all the wicked and reprobate, which haue bene sithence the be∣ginning of the worlde. For the Lorde doth alwayes me∣nace and threaten with more grieuous paine the succes∣sors

sors, then the predecessors, bicause that they doe agra∣uate alwayes more & more the iudgement of God vppon them, bicause that the light is more greater reuealed vn∣to them, and that they haue more examples of the iudge∣ments of God, y^t which they despise: & do yéeld themselues culpable, not onely of their wickednessé, but also of the sinnes of their fathers and predecessors, allowing them by their doings.

Thomas.

The sleepers and dreamers may take from that place an argument for to proue their dreames, bicause it séemeth by the words of Iesus Christ, that the paine of the Sodomits and Gomorrians is differ∣red vntill the day of iudgement. But thou hast already shortned and cut off the way for them, in declaring vnto vs bow the iudgement is already done, and how it is yet to doe.

Theophilus.

These two places ought very well to in∣citate and stirre vs forward to follow veritie and to seke it. For ignoraunce exempteth vs not from the iudgement of God, the which commeth of our fault, chiefely in these dayes, that the Gospell is so cléerely reuealed vnto vs.

Eusebius.

Therefore I desire to know and well vnder∣stād all those places which might yet trouble my braines, amonge which there is one in the actes of the Apostles, which some men doe interprete for the Purgatory. It is there written, that God hath raised vp Iesus Christ, and 〈◊〉〈◊〉 s••d the sorrowes of Hell. Nowe he hath not loosed the sorrowes of the hell fire or gebenne, which are eternall: nor of the Limbe. For there is to be had ioy and consola∣tion. It followeth then, that the same ought to bée vnder∣standed of the sorrowes of Purgatory. As much may we say of many like places which are in the Psalmes, as these héere, vnto which Dauid said: The sorrowes of hell com∣passed ••e. Then Lord hast brought my soule out of hell. God shall deliuer my soule from the power of hell, when he 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉. And Iob sayth in like manner: O y^• thou wa••idest ••eepe mée and hide mée in the hell, vntyll thy wrath ••ere stilled: and to appointe me a time, wherein

thou mightest remember mée? what other hel can we héere vnderstand, then Purgatory?

Theophilus.

I am aba∣shed of y^e great ignorance of such interpreters of the scrip∣ture. For first, in y^e place of the acts, it is not in y^e Gréeke copies the sorrowes of hel, and it was not so written of S. Luke. For he hath sayd, the sorrowes of death, and not of hell: although that in your common translation it is writ∣ten as thou sayest. But although it were so, all shoulde come to one ende. For the text doth plainely declare, that Saint Peter speaketh in that Sermon of the resurrection of Iesus Christ, and that hée himselfe ex∣poundeth hell, for the tribulations, extreme sorrowes, the death, the pit, the sepulchre, the low places, and the estate and condition of the dead, from which Iesus Christ is rai∣sed. He maketh there no mencion of the Limbe, of Pur∣gatory, nor of the gehenne or hell fire. That same solution sufficeth for all the other places by thée alledged. For that is very common in the Scripture, to take hell in that sig∣nification, as it appeareth by those places the which thou bast put foorth. For how many times saith the Prophet in those same places? The sighings of the dead haue en∣uironed me. I haue called vpō thée in my trouble. I haue cryed vnto thée and thou hast healed mée. Thou hast deli∣uered mee from those that goe down into the pit. He mea∣neth none other thing by those woords, but that he setteth foorth and declareth that hell from which he was deliue∣red. Wherefore I am greatly ashamed, both of Eccius and of Cochleus, for that they were not ashamed, to al∣ledge such places for to mainteine their Purgatory.

Eusebius.

Whatsoeuer thou sayest, it seemeth neuer∣thelesse that already in the time of Saint Paul, the Chri∣stians were of an opinion, that the liuinge might giue some ayde vnto the deade, by that that hée writeth of those which did baptise themselues for the dead. Nowe that could not profite, neither those which were in Para∣dise, nor those which were in hell. It must be then that it profiteth those of Purgatory.

Theophilus.

Thou oughtest alreadye to haue vnder∣standed by that which hath bene sayde of that place, that it can serue nothing at all for Purgatory. I doe not de∣nye vnto thée, but that in the time of the Apostles, there were suffrages and prayers for the dead. But that was among the Panims and Idolaters, as it hath bene alrea∣dy very amply entreated off amongest vs. And doubte not, but that there remayneth some roote of such super∣stition in some of those which are called Christians. But if it were so as thou doest vnderstande it, it followeth not therefore that Sainct Paul alloweth that manner of dooing: As the auncient Doctors themselues dooe wit∣nesse it, namely Sainct Ambrose. For I may well take an argument against a Papist (which will denye vnto mée the resurrection, or immortalitie of the soules) with their manner of dooings towardes the dead, for to beate him with his owne swoorde, and yet I will not allow ne∣uerthelesse their superstition. But it is not néedfull to stay any more vpon that place, sith that I haue already decla∣red vnto thée, howe the auncientes haue vnderstanded it, and howe it is also expounded by others. For whatsoe∣uer exposition that thou maist giue vnto it, it cannot serue for thy purpose. And there was neuer any of the auncientes, which hath dreamed, that the same was done bicause of Purgatorye. For Epiphanius witnesseth, that those which baptised themselues for the dead, which were dead before that they had receiued Baptisme, did it to that ende that when they shoulde rise againe in the resurrection, they shoulde not bée punished for that they haue not bene baptised in this worlde. He sayth that such was their opinion. Wherefore it is easily to knowe, that they did not thinke of Purgatory.

Hée toucheth yet an other exposition of that place, the which hée alloweth. But yet it maketh lesse for thée. To conclude, that place serueth as much for your broylers of soules for to proue your Purgatory, as for the Marcionistes heretickes, who as witnesseth Theophi∣lactus,

doe drawe them to their purpose, for to proue their baptisme, which they receiue for the dead. For when any dyed among them without baptisme, they had a custome, that one that was a liue should enter within the béere of the dead, or where the dead was layde. Afterwards they did come vnto the béere and demaunded of the dead, if he will be baptised? Then the liue man, which was there hid, in a low place vnder the béere, aunswered y^t he would. Wherefore they dyd Baptise him in stéede of the dead.

Hillarius.

They had yet more appearance, thē our Bishops & Priests which baptised the bels.

Eusebius.

If those two arguments doe séeme vnto thée weake and feeble, I will alldge vnto thée a stronger. When S. Paul did write vnto the Philippians, that vnto Iesus Christ is giuen a name a∣boue all names, y^t in the name of Iesus, should euery knée boow, both of things in heauen & things in earth, & things vnder y^e earth. What vnderstādeth he by those which vn∣der the earth do boow their knées vnto Iesus Christ? That cannot be vnderstanded of the diuels. For they haue not accustomed to honour God, nor the damned also. For their office is rather to blaspheme him. It must needes be then that they be in Purgatory which do boow the knée vnto Ie∣sus Christ, which do honour him, or otherwise y^e words of S. Paul should not be true.

Theophilus.

If by boowing the knée, S. Paul did vnderstande the true diuine seruice, the true inuocation, and the true honour which the elect doo owe vnto God, ther should be some reason & appearance in the argument. But S. Paul by that manner of speaking, meaneth none other thing by boowing the knée, but that to Iesus Christ is giuen such domination, that it is neces∣sary that euery creature bée subiect vnto him, and obeye him, and acknowledge him to bee Iudge and Lorde: the which the good and the elect dowillingly and with a good heart: the wicked and reprebate, in spite of their téeth. But they are neuerthelesse campelled. For they cannot resist the vertue and power of Iesus Christ, which ma∣keth

his enimies his footstoole. But the Apostle vseth such manner of speaking, for to followe the stile of the Pro∣phetes, and to declere vnto vs that which the Lord hath sayde by I say: I doe liue sayth the Lord: Euery knee shal boowe vnto mee. The which the Apostle expoundeth by other woords, saying: wee shall be all brought before the iudgement scate of Christ. Afterwardes hee confirmeth that proposition by the very wordes of the Prophet, de∣claring that all that commeth to one effect. For bicause that the good and euill are compelled to render obedience vnto their Lordes, and that they doe declare commonly their subiection and humilitie in boowing the knée and dooing reuerence before their Lorde, the Scripture vseth such manner of speakinge for to signifie the obedience, reuerence and subiection, that euery creature must she we towardes God. Although that the same may bée done diuerse wayes either by bowing the knées, and without bewing the knées. For the Angells and the soules can no better boowe their knees then the Diuels: sith that all of thē haue no knées: which cannot be but to bodies: if we doe not vnderstande any otherwise those figures of spea∣king. And therefore there is no inconuenience, to vnder∣stande by those which do boow the knees vnder the earth, the Diuels themselues with all the reprobate, which shall all appeare before the iudgement seate of Christ, and shall be cōpelled to acknowledge him to be their Iudge, in great horrour and feare, as they haue already shewed by experi∣ence, in the time that Iesus Christ was yet in his mortall body & passible, before that he was risen againe. For the wicked spirites were constrayned to obey him, and to con∣fesse him to be Christ and to pray vnto him: Although that it was against their wills, saying: O Iesu thou sonne of God, what haue wee to do w^t thee? Art thou come hether to torment vs before the time be come? We know that thou art the holy eue of God: And they besought him, saying: If thou cast vs out, suffer vs to goe our way into the herd of swine. In the very same manner as they are

compelled to entreate & beseech Iesus Christ, & to confesse him, so shall they be compelled to boow the knee vnto him. And if they did that vnto him whilest y^t he was yet mortal & passible, what shal they do now, sith y^t he sitteth immor∣tal & glorious at the right hand of God his father? And if they doe beséech or pray to Iesus Christ, may they not as well boow y^e knee vnto him? In y^e sence the auncients haue vnderstāded, & Theophilactus expoūdeth it expresly of y^e di¦uels, which shalbe constrained to giue glory & honour vnto Iesus Christ.

Eusebius.

If thou hast escaped y^t place, I be∣leeue, y^t thou shalt not escape so easily of the like, written in y^e Apocalipse, where it is sayd: And all y^e creatures which are in heauen and on the earth, & vnder the earth, & in the sea, and al that are in them heard I, saying: blessing, he nor, glory & power be vnto him that sitteth vpon the seate, and vnto the lambe for euermore. Thou canst not héere say but that it is spoken of y^e true praise & of the true honor which is due vnto God, the which y^e diuels, nor the reprobate can∣not giue vnto him. And yet neuertheles it is here said, that there be creatures vnder y^e earth, which do giue vnto him that praise, which can be none other thē the soules of pur∣gatory,

Theophilus.

You do lacke but the leg of a Fly for to build your arguments. Doest thou not see y^t the holy Ghost vseth an enumeration, by the which he witnesseth, y^t all creatures in al places do praise their creator, & Iesus Christ the true lambe, by whō all is restored? But being not contēted to vse an vniuersal proposition, he also woult by enumeratiō of creatures in perticuler, conclude y^t in ge∣neral, bicause that that manner of speaking doth better ex∣presse the thing, & doth amplifie better the glory of God, declaring y^t there is not an element, nor any place where God is not praised and magnified, frō the highest part of heauen vnto y^e bottom of y^e earth & from euery part of the world. For as he writeth, that the heauens declare y^e glory of God, & the firmament sheweth foorth his handy works. Also there is not a creature whatsoeuer it bee, neither in Heauen nor in the ayre, nor in the water, nor

in the earth, nor vnder the earth, not so much as an Ant or Pismer, neither a worme, plant, trée, nor stone, which prea∣cheth not, singeth, prayseth, & magnifieth according to his nature, in his manner.

Eusebius.

How can the mute and dumbe creatures speake, being without reason and insen∣sible, which haue no sence, reason, vnderstandinge nor speach? It must néedes be that we doe vnderstand that of men.

Theophilus.

How can the Angells & the blessed soules, speake and praise God, which haue no mouth as we haue? And how can the Firmament, the Sunne, the Moone, and the starres declare and shew foorth the glory of God, and declare his vertue and power? for they haue no soule, nor mouth as men haue. Yet they haue neuerthelesse their mouth agréeing to their nature, for to render vnto God the honour which apperteyneth vnto him. Euen so ought we to vnderstand of al other creatures, which are all the liue∣ly Images of God, which declare vnto vs those meruailes, and doe speake better hauing no mouth, then the Images which haue mouthes and speake not, and which crye not thorow their throate. And therefore how many creatures may there be vnder the earth which do praise God in that manner? And notwithstanding that the dampned and re∣probate doe not praise him in that sort as he is praised of the elect, yet they are neuerthelesse constrained to praise & glorif••e him against their wills, and they cannot doe nor speake any thing which serueth not vnto his honour and glory.

Eusebius.

Sith that by thy expositions thou hast al∣ready pulled out of my handes all the argumentes that I haue against thee, I will display at once that which remai∣neth behinde. What wilt thou say vpon that other place taken from the same booke? in which is spoken of the holy citie of the celestial Hierusalem, after this māner: ther shal enter into it no vncleane thing. To which agreeth that which is written in Esay. This shalbe called the holy way, no vncleane person shall goe thorow it.

Theophilus.

What wilt thou that I should aunswere thée vppon the same. There is none that will deny, but that he must be purged from all his sinnes, before he can come vnto the eternall lyfe. For flesh and bloud cannot inherite the kingdome of God. But the purgation is not done by the fire of Purgatory, but by the bloude of Iesus Christ, by the which we are washed & purified, when tho∣row the word of god & thorow faith our hearts are sprink∣led. Therefore sayd Iesus Christ vnto his disciples: you are cleane bicause of the words which you haue heard. We are purged, when we obteine remission of our sinnes, and that the Lorde forgetteth them, not imputing them vnto vs and remembring them, according to that which is written. Blessed are those whose iniquities are forgiuen & whose sins are couered. Blessed is the man vnto whom the Lord imputeth no sinne.

Thomas.

I doe greatly feare Eusebius, sith that thou art already come vnto the Apocalips but that thou wilt be by and by at the ende of thy knowledge. For that is the ende of the new Testament, and of all the canonicall Scripture.

Hillarius.

I beléeue that he hath conducted and lead vs euen vnto the Apocalips for to bury his Purgatory to the ende we may helpe him to sing his Requiescant in pace. For I beleeue that he will dye héere, and that hée shall passe no further. Your Doctors doe write that after the Iudgement, Purgatory and hell shal be all one. But I beléeue that that Purgatory which thou wouldest haue proued in the Apocalips, to be none other thing then those pondes of fire and brimstone, in which the beast which hath engendered Purgatory, is cast with hir false Pro∣phets into the eternall bottomlesse pitte.

Theophilus.

What sayst thou Eusebius to the same? Hast thou no more refuge? Or whether thy arriere woorde bee altogether disconfited?

Eusebius.

I haue no more wherewith to reuenge me, except I shew foorth that place of Saint Peter, which wit∣nesseth

that the spirite of Iesus Christ preached vnto the spirites which were in prisen: By the which prison I cannot vnderstand but Purgatory or the Lymbe. At the leastwise it must bee that thou doest allowe the one or the other.

Theophilus.

That obiection commeth well to purpose, for to aunswere also to the question of Thomas, and to those which would haue a preaching of the Gospell in the other world:

Thomas.

I am very gladde that thou hast not forgotten it, and that the occasion serueth so well.

Theophilus.

But before I will enter into it, I will agayne admonish thee, that I wil not define nor determine any thing of the estate of the dead, besides that which the holy Scripture hath expressely reuealed vnto me. Where∣fore I do conclude that although it should be so that those estéeme it to be true, yet neuertheles I shall not be of that opinion, that any person should trust vnto it and that hée should leaue off to doe his endeauour in this worlde, to seeke Iesus Christ: sith that the Scripture doth not pro∣mise vnto vs cleerely any ether remedie, nor any other preaching and reuelation for our saluation after this lyfe. Therfore I would gladly allow, in this matter that which Gregory writeth touching Purgatory. For notwithstan∣ding that he did beleeue that in the same one might be pur∣ged from his sinnes, yet neuerthelesse he sayth, that it is most sure to gouerne himselfe so in this worlde, that one néedeth not of that remedie in the other, but to haue there his recourse and hope.

Thomas.

I am of thy opinion. But expound vnto vs at the least the places, that one may alleadge them, to that purpose for to haue the intellygence thereoff.

Theophilus.

That which hath most shew is that which Eusebius hath touched, in which is written y^t Christ hath once suffered for the sinnes, the iust for the vniust for to bring vs to God and was killed, as perteining to the flesh: But was quickened in the spirite. In which spirit he also

went and preached vnto the spirites that were in prison, which were in time passed disobedient, when the long suf∣fering abode exceeding patiently in the dayes of No•• &c, The other is by and by after, where he saith, that the wic∣ked shall giue accompt vnto him that is ready to Iudge quicke and dead. For vnto this purpose verely was the Gospell preached vnto the dead, that they should be iudged lyke other men, in the flesh, but should lyue before god in the spirite. Behold two places, after which many learned men haue much trauayled, and haue expounded them ma∣ny wayes. Yet neuerthelesse it hath bene most common∣ly taken for the Lymbe after that it was forged and in∣uented, bicause that he speaketh of the spirits which were in prison or in the lower partes, to whome Iesus Christ hath preached. Those there haue vnderstanded by those spirits, the soules of the auncient Fathers. By the pri∣son, the Helles and the Lymbes, in which they were de∣teined. The others, which are so affectioned after the Purgatory, that there is not a place in all the Scripture, which they endeauour not to wrest & draw, either wrong∣fully or ouerthwartly, and haue taken that prison for Purgatory, & the spirits, for the soules that are there. But these héere haue lesse shew, and doe put themselues more out of reason then the others. Chiefely, sith that there is none of the Auncients, y^t I know, not of those which haue beleeued the Purgatory, that haue vnderstanded it after that manner, and which haue alleadged it to that purpose. Wherefore it is not needeful to aunswere them any fur∣ther. But for to come to the exposition of those places, I will first aduertise you, that there are diuers inter∣pretacions, the which I will recy•••• some, to the ende that thou shouldest not thinke that I doe condempne all the others which haue expounded it: Or that I am more arrogant then all men, and that I doe attribute more to my sence and iudgdement, then to any other.

If I define rashlye of a thinge, the which all the Expositours haue founde it so obscure and harde, that

many among them haue bene constrayned to confesse that they cannot vnderstande it. Then I will touch the diuers expositions, which are more sufferable. Afterwardes I will signifie vnto you that which I thinke to be most pro∣per. There are some which doe not vnderstand that Saint Peter speaketh héere but of the lyuing vnto whom Iesus Christ hath preached the gospell, aswell in his owne pro∣per person, as by his Prophets and Apostles, which haue all spoken by his spirite. Wherefore one may well say, that Iesus Christ hath preached vnto thē, sith that it was not they that did speake, but Iesus Christ who by his holy spirite did speake in them. Those heere do take the words of Saint Peter by a Metaphore and by an Allegorie, and doe vnderstande by the spirits which were in prison, the dead, vnto whom it is sayd in the chapter following that the Gospell was preached, saying that saint Peter by that seconde place expoundeth the first. Now by these dead, vn∣to whom hath bene preached, they vnderstand not the dead: but doe take that word, by a Metaphore, vnderstanding by the dead, the sinners which are dead thor••w sinne: the which he hath called before the spirits which were in pri∣son, bicause that the soule which is dead thorow sinne, is holden by the same, as a prisoner which is in bondes and fetters, in the stockes and in prison. Those which doe expounde it after that manner, notwithstanding that they doe accorde as touching the interpretation of the words, yet neuerthelesse they doe a lyt••le differ, touching that spi∣rite, by the which Iesus Christ went and preached vnto the spirits which were in prison. For some doe expound it for the manifestation of Iesus Christ which hath bene before his comming. Others, for that which hath followed his comming. These heere doe vnderstand by the spirite the holy Ghost which Iesus Christ sent, and gaue vnto his ••pos••les, by the which he hath prea∣ched the Gospel to the Iewes and ••entiles, which before were rebellious and disobedient vnto the worde of God. Wherefore hee calleth them rebellyng and disobedient

spirits, deteined in the captiuitie of errour and of sinne. For although that Iesus Christ ascended into heauen, and hath taken his body from vs, yet neuerthelesse he is al∣waies among vs, by the vertue of his spirite, by the which he speaketh in his Apostles, Ministers, and Euangelycall Pastors, and preacheth and admonisheth alwayes the sinners, and toucheth their heart, and conducteth and lea∣deth their spirits by his, for to make them enter into his Church, & for to saue the elect in the same, as those which were saued in the Arke of Noe. There is nothing in this exposition contrary to the Analogie of the faith, and the sence of the Scriptures. But yet neuerthelesse it séemeth to some to be a lyttle allegorised and vyolated and to stray a lyttle too far front the Apostolycal simplycitie. Although that it be tollerable and Christian lyke. Others doe vn∣derstande by the spirite of Christ, his eternall vertue, by the which he hath bene long time agone the Sauiour and Iudge of the worlde, as he is at this present, the Sauiour by the water, as he doth now by the baptisme. And there∣fore they doe vnderstand that he is gone by his spirit, by his diuine vertue, & by his word, thorow out the world, as he passed thorow out Aegipt, declaring his power among the Aegyptians & sauing the Israelites. Asmuch hath hée done in the time of the floude: and doth yet at this day. For he declareth his Iudgement vnto the wicked, & hath drowned them in the floude, euen as now he declareth it vnto all, to the ende that his seruaunts may be saued in the Arke of the Churche, and the others drowned by the Iudgement of God. Therefore is Noe called the herauld of righteousnesse for to declare, that by the same, the spi∣rite of Iesus Christ declareth vnto men the righteousnes and Iudgement of God, as a king declareth the warre by an herauld of armes, vnto those which doe rebell agaynst him, and refuse peace. And the word which Saint Peter vsed when he sayd, y^• Iesus Christ hath preached vnto the spirits, doth not signifie onely to preach, but also to publish a commaundement and an ordinaunce as an Herauld. And

that worde herauld, the which Saint Peter vsed spea∣king of Noe, is taken of the very same, of which he vseth, saying that Iesus Christ hath preached vnto the spirites. And as to that that Saint Peter calleth them spirits, they thinke that he did it hauing regarde to their thoughtes and affections, beeing possessed with euill spirits. And doe buylde their interpretation vppon that which is written: God did sée y^• all the thoughts of mans heart was giuen vnto euill. And vppon that which Saint Paul (speaking of the power which is giuen vnto him by y^e ministring of the Gospell) sayth that it is for to beat downe euery high thing, which exalteth it selfe agaynst God, and for to bring into captiuitie the thoughts and spirites of men to the o∣bedtence of Christ, delyuering them from the subiection of the wicked spirites which doe holde capti••e the spirites, and vnderstanding of the reprobate. They doe vnderstand then by the spirites which were in prison, those which were in the spirituall prison, or whose spirits were detey∣ned in captiuitie and prison, by the wicked spirits. They haue yet regard vnto that that the scripture calleth those which perished by the floude, the sonnes of God, which did see the daughters of men: and to that which is there written, that the Lord did strike and destroy euery soule and taketh from the middes of them euery spirite, and that he hath sayd in threatning them, that he will take from them his spirite. For that cause they thinke that Saint Peter was induced to call such men spirits, bicause that whilest that their spirits did sleepe and were detemed by the wicked spirits, they were ouercome and drowned by the waters of the sloude, and the spirit was taken from them, as to him which was strangled and c••oked in the water. They also haue regarde to that, that that worde which Saint Peter hath vsed, which we doe interprete prison, doth also signifie, the watche and warde which is kept in the night: Insomuch that they thinke that Saynt Peter had regard vnto the parable of Iesus Christ, which admonisheth euery one to watch, as the faithfull seruant

looking for his master, who knoweth not what houre hée will come, whether it be in the seconde, thirde, or fourth watch of the night: and for a full resolution, they will fall vppon this sence: Although that Iesus Christ be dead as touching his flesh, body and humanitie, yet neuerthe∣lesse he is quickened by the spirite, that is to say, by his e∣ternall vertue and diuine power, by the which hee is not onely risen from death, but also hath giuen vnto vs his quickening flesh, and hath tourned death into lyfe, quicke∣ning by the same all those which were dead thorow sinne, And to the ende that none should dispise Iesus Christ, bi∣cause that he is dead and was crucified as a vyle and an abiect person, he declared that he is so dead, that there is no lyfe but in his death: and that none can lyue but by him: and that he is not onely to day, but euerlasting, and that by the same spirite and diuine and eternall vertue he is already an other time come vnto the worlde and hath iudged and condempned the rebells, the proude and per∣uerse spirits, oppressed with wicked spirites, which were not vnder their kéeping, but did sléepe, not thinking on the iudgement of god, vntil such time as the floud ouerwhel∣med and drowned them, as he doth yet at this present, by that same spyrite, by the which hée Iudgeth an condemp∣neth the world, and saueth and quickeneth his elect euen as he did in the time of Noe.

Hillarius.

It seemeth that that exposition is also a little vyolated & far fetched, neuerthelesse it commeth not euill to purpose, but séemeth to agrée well inough to the let∣ter of the text of S. Peter.

Theophilus.

Bicause that the place is obscure & hard, I dare not to define & pronounce of it rashly. But I would gladly put forth these expositions, to y^t ende you may iudge of thē, & for to awake y^e spirits, for to finde out some better thing. Neuertheles I thinke that this héere is the simplest, y^t is to say, that S. Peter willing to shew foorth the efficacie & vertu of Iesus Christ & of his death and passion, witnesseth that it was so great, that the lyuing haue not onely felt & perceiued it but the dead also,

vnto whom it is come. But in what manner or after what sort? How is it communicated vnto vs, and all his giftes and graces but by his spirite and diuine vertue? E∣uen as then by his spirite he hath giuen vnto vs his quic∣kening flesh, which is vnto vs spirite and lyfe, and hath communicated vnto vs his vertue, so hath he manife∣sted himselfe by the same spirite vnto the deade, both during their lyse and after their death. For it is sayde of Abraham, that he did sée the day of the Lord, and reioy∣ced. If he hath then already during this mortal lyfe, felt the efficacie and vertue of Iesus Christ, long time be∣fore that he didde offer his eternall sacrifice, wée cannot doubt, but that he and all the others, which were in his bosome, haue felte it more fully, when he did manifest himselfe more fully.

By this we may well vnderstand, whereto this place can serue to proue Purgatory. For if the vertue of the death and passion of Iesus Christ be of such efficacie, that it goeth vnto the dead, what néede haue we then of Mas∣ses and Suffrages of the Priests for to comfort the dead, and to apply vnto them the merits of Iesus Christ? sith that none can do it but he himself, by the vertue of his spi∣rite which quickeneth the quicke and the dead. Now hée calleth that manifestacion predication: not that he hath preached verbally or by mouth, towards the dead, such as is among the lyuing, but bicause that euen as by the prea∣ching and Euangelycall ministring, Iesus Christ is ma∣nifested vnto vs and doe feele the vertue and efficacie of his death and passion.

Also the spirits of the dead haue theirs, but in their maner, and such as apperteineth vnto them: euen as we doe vnderstande that God gaue himselfe to his Angells to be knowen, and to make them tast of his bountie and goodnesse, but by an other meane then vnto vs, bicause that their condition was contrary. We must not then dreame out a Lymbe and a materiall prison and a locale descen∣ding of the spirite of Iesus Christ into hell: and a prea∣ching

such as wée haue. But wée must vnderstande all those things spiritually. For as it is not néedfull that Ie∣sus Christ should descend locally from heauen, for to make vs feele his vertue, so it is not necessary to descend into hell. For the vertue of his spirite is such, that it filleth heauen and earth, and is spread abrode euery where.

Hillarius,

As I thinke, our dreaming Theologians had very much leasure, whē they setled themselues to dispute, whether the soule of Iesus Christ did suffer in the hell. Amongest the which, some of them are founde to bée of opinion, that he did.

Theophilus.

If they had wel vnderstanded that which Iesus Christ sayd vnto the théefe: This day shalt thou be with me in Paradise, and how Iesus Christ descended into hell, when his soule was sorrowfull, and in anguish, euen vnto the death, and that he hath dronken vp the cup of the wrath and furor of God, and hath borne his iudge∣ment and our malediction and curse, and the dampnation due vnto our sinnes, insomuch that he was stroken & bea∣ten of God, & hath suffered death, after which he descended into the sepulchre or graue, they should not haue néeded a∣gaine to make the soule of Iesus Christ to descend from Paradise, in which it was, for to goe into hell. For it is sufficiently giuen vnto the spirites of his elect to vnder∣stand, which haue receiued consolation, and vnto those of the reprobate, declaringe vnto them from what goodnesse they were depriued without descending or assending.

Eusebius.

To what purpose then doth he speake of the prison? and what other thing can hée vnderstand but the Lymbe? of which it is also spoken in Zachery, saying: I haue let thy prisoners out of the pit where is no water.

Theophilus.

By the Words of Zachery the Lord giueth vs to vnderstand none other thing, but that by the bleud of the alliance that he hath made with Syon, he will deliuer his people y^t are captiue, kept in y^e bottom of all miseries. By the prisoners, he vnderstandeh his people that bée in capti••itie, by y^• euils he vnderstandeth a captinitie, a goulse

and bottome of all miserye, from which it is not possi∣ble for them to come out by any meanes if God doe not delyuer them himselfe. Therefore he calleth it Welles for to declare the depth: yea yet without water, in which one cannot swimme: to the ende they may the better knowe their miserie, and the grace and mercy of God towardes them. When S. Peter did speake of y^e prison of the spirits, he did it for to amplyfie the better y^e grace of the Gospell, comparing those which wer vnder y^e seruitude & bondage of y^e law, & vnder those shadows & figures vnto those which shall be in a prison in respect of those which haue receiued the light of y^e gospell. But we must not therefore dreame, that y^e bosome of Abraham was a prison, or a Castle, as we haue alredy declared in the other disputacion. But we must be aduised & know y^t those things are spoken by a comparison, as we haue already declared the examples.

Thomas.

It séemeth that Saint Peter speaketh not, but of the reprobate. For after that hée hath spoken of those spirits which wer in prison, he addeth which late or some∣tune were rebells.

Theophilus.

He speaketh generally of all. For euen as the Gospell is a sweete sauour of lyfe, to lyfe vnto those which are saued, and a sauour of death, to death vnto those that perish, so the death of Iesus Christ bringeth a great reioycing, both to the Angells and to all the blessed spirits, and more greater confusion and grieuous damp∣nation vnto the wicked and reprobate. But after that he spake generally of the spirits he pursued not all the two parts, but stayed himselfe onely to the disobedient and re∣bells, bicause that he is fallen into that matter speaking of afflictions. Wherefore for to comfort the faythfull, he s••ayed to declare vnto them y^e vertue which Iesus Christ hath, for to saue his, as he saued Noe and his family in the Arke: and for to punish the wicked and persecutors, as he hath drowned the Gyants by the floud. For that cause he stayed to declare the Iudgement of god, as in the chap∣ter following, saying: that Iesus Christ shall Iudge the

quicke and the dead. For vnto this purpose verely was the Gospell preached vnto the dead, that they should bée iudged lyke other men in the flesh, but should lyue before God in the spirite.

Thomas.

By that which thou sayest, thou doest declare vnto vs that that place, concludeth not y^t ther is any other Limbe nor Purgatory, then such which thou hast shewed vnto vs from the beginning. But what sayest thou tou∣ching the preaching of the which we haue spoken which ought to be done vnto the spirits after this lyfe.

Theophilus,

First of all as touching those which are departed out of this world, without hauing one grayne of that seede of the feare of God, but haue altogether resisted his spirite, and the naturall lyght and knowledge that hée hath giuen vnto them, or at the preaching of his gospell we cannot leaue vnto them any preaching, nor any other remedy after their death, for their saluation: except wée wil fall into the error of the Origenists and Anabaptists. For it is written: He which beléeueth not in the Sonne of God is already condempned. But if it be a question of the elect, which haue had alredy in this world some grain of the seede of God, which haue walked in his feare, al∣though that they haue bene yet wrapped in many errors. and darkenesse, there is an other consideration. Not that I doe vnderstand that the gospell is preached vnto them after they are departed out of this lyfe, otherwise, saying that they shall haue more ful knowledge of that, that they haue onely héere known, as amongst the midst of darke∣nesse. For if they be the sonnes of God, the seede of god which is in them shall saue them: As wee may iudge by the example of Cornelius the Centurion.

Before that he had heard the preaching of Saint Peter, he had not perfect knowledge of Iesus Christ. Hée was yet a Panim: but he was not therefore altogether with∣out the seede of the feare of GOD, nor without some beginning of fayth & obscure knowledge of IESVS CHRIST: Or otherwise his prayers and almes

deedes shoulde not haue bene approued of God, whome one cannot please without fayth. If he had then dyed before that S. Peter was come vnto him, I do not thinke therefore, that he had ben altogether reiected and forsaken of God: and that that knowledge sufficed him not to sal∣uation: or that he had not giuen himselfe more fully to be knowne of him either by some diuine inspiration: or by some other meanes, such as it pleaseth him: yea, in the Ar∣ticle of the death, or at his last gaspe, rather then to suffer him to perish. As we may presume as wel of the Iewes, as of the Panims, who before the comming and manife∣station of Iesus Christ in the flesh, had the lawe of God written in their heartes: notwithstanding that they haue not had altogether so full knowledge of Iesus Christ, as we haue at this present. For although that the knowledge of Iesus Christ be vnto all men necessary to saluation, it followeth not therefore, that none can be saued, if it be not full and perfect in him. For who euer had in this world so full knowledge of him, and a faith so perfect, that he had nothing to say? There was neuer such a one found in this world. It sufficeth then that that knowledge & faith, hath taken roote in vs, & that we do trauaile as much as we can possible to augment and increase it. And afterwards when we shall doe our endeuour, as much as we can, the Lord which hath begun his worke in vs will bring it to passe, and will supply and recompense thorow his grace the de∣fault of the faith and knowledge which we haue receiued of him (euen as he doth of our workes, which are all im∣perfect, bicause of the imperfection of our faith) so that ther be not dispising, and to great negligence in vs, which can∣not be but to the reprobate. Euen then as GOD, by his great mercye supporteth the imperfection of our fayth, and ceaseth nor leaueth off to receiue vs for his chil∣dren, so that the seede and the roote of the same be quic∣kened in vs, so I cannot vpholde and mainteine by anye witnesse of the holy Scripture, that any should haue iust occasion to hope for saluation after this lyfe, which from

the same shall bée departed without any knowledge of God & of Iesus Christ his sonne. Wherefore I doe holde me to that which the Scripture hath reuealed vnto me, & do leaue the rest with the secrete iudgements of God, which are hid from vs and couered. But yet neuerthe∣lesse I think that it is alwayes most sure, to trauaile very much after the knowledge of the truth, whilest that wée be in this worlde, that wee may haue so much as is néed∣full for our saluation: and that our despising be not any cause vnto vs of dampnation. And if wée doe our ende∣uour, wee are very sure that the Lorde will not faile vs, and that he will not hide himselfe or withdrawe himselfe from vs, if wée doe seeke him and desire to approch and come vnto him. For it is impossible, that hee wil hide him∣selfe from those whom he hath chosen, & whō he hath pur∣posed to glorifie, and to make them blessed by his know∣ledge. And notwithstanding that wée haue not all of vs, so great and high knowledge of him, nor so many of his gi••tes and graces as his Prophetes and Apostles, yet neuerthelesse hee will giue vs as much as shall be neces∣sary and expedient for vs: wherewith wée ought to con∣tent our selues. Behold that that I had to say vpon that pointe, and whereto I will staye my selfe, without seking any further.

Thomas.

And I with thée: And praised be God for that I did finde your company, in which I haue heard so many good doctrines, and debating of so many good points of religion, of which I was before in great doubt, & had my conscience much troubled. But nowe, the grace of God hath resolued mée, and hath sette my conscience at rest. And thou Eusebius, hast thou chaunged thy opi∣nion?

Eusebius.

I doe yéelde my selfe: and doe confesse that I can no longer withstande the truth: and doe render thanckes vnto GOD which hath deliuered mée from those great darkenesse, errours and abuses, in whiche I was fallen into and drowned. For I was in greate

daunger to be altogether lost, if God thorowe his grace had not retyred and pulled me backe. And so much as I did thinke that I was in the right way, so much was the daunger the greater.

Thomas.

I am very glad to heare such words of thée. For he that would haue sworne vnto me at the beginning when I did see thée so contrary vnto Theophilus & vnto Hillarius, that thou shouldest haue come vnto this reso∣lution, I would neuer haue beleeued it.

Eusebius.

No more would I. But that which is im∣possible to men, is possible to God, who hath the hearts of his in his hand, and chaungeth them as it pleaseth him. And therefore we ought neuer to vispaire of the conuersi∣on or of the saluation of any man, whilest that we do sée some little sparke of the feare of God to shine in them, vn∣till such time as we doe ther openly sée resistaunce against the knowen truth and the spirite of God.

Hillarius.

I haue not lost altogether the hope. For I was well assured, that thou wouldest not resist the truth thorow malice, but onely thorow ignoraunce. And God will not leaue such men willingly alwayes in errour, but will drawe them out of it in the time that he hath ordei∣ned: As we haue the example of Saul the great persecu∣tor, whome he hath made an Apostle and Euangelist of the Doctrine which hée blasphemed, and hath tourned a madde Wolfe, into the most excellentest Pastour y^t euer was in his Church. But sith that God hath shewed vnto vs that grace and fauour, that we be all falled into a good concord, and vnitie, and that he hath conuerted and tur∣ned our warre, into so greate a peace, wée ought as well to remember to prepare the Funeralls for the Lymbe and Purgatorye, sith that they are deade and readye to bée buryed. But let vs bée aduised who shall furnishe the funerall pompe, and the Suffrages and Obsequies, and who shall doe the office.

Then must ringe the Belles Thomas, and Eusebius shall cary the Crosse: and Theophilus the holye Wa∣ter

stoppe: and I will carye the sprinckle and will doe the office, and the Priestes and Moonkes shall mourne.

Thomas.

I néede not to ringe the bells, for his death will be sufficiently published abroade without that: And the Priestes will soone know of it without Bells, when they shall sée their Kitchin to be so colde, and that the fire shall bée altogether extinct and put out. You saye in speakinge of the lamentations whiche the Priestes dooe make after the dead, that they doe make pitious moane about them, as to the outwarde appearaunce by wrything their mouthes, but doe laughe inwardlye in their heartes. But I doe not doubt, that in this for∣rowe and lamentation héere, that they will not doe it faynedly, but that they will wéepe earnestly. For they did neuer bury parentes nor friendes, whose death was so deere vnto them, and which dyd bring vnto them more greater sorrow nor domage.

Hillarius.

I do greatly feare least it happen vnto them as to the labourer of whome Esope speaketh off. He re∣hearseth a fable of a woeman who had newly buryed hir husbande, who did goe euery daye to his graue to wéepe and lament. Nowe there was a labourer which plough∣ed in a fielde which was not farre from the Church∣yarde. Wherefore hée seeing that woeman, and was in loue with hir, insomuch that hée lefte his Oxen, and went also vnto the graue, and beeing there sette downe, dyd also wéepe with the woeman. When the woeman asked him wherefore hée so lamented, hée aunswered hir: bicause saith hée, that I haue buryed a faire and an honest woman, for whome I am much sorrowfull and sad. But after that I haue well wept and lamented, I am eased of my sorrow. And the woman sayd vnto him: Euen so is it chaunced to me of my husband. Wherevpon the labou∣rer aunswered vnto hir. For as much then as both of vs are fallen into one misfortune, wherefore maye we not marye together? For I will loue thée, as I loued

my first wife, and thou shalt leue mée in like manner as thou diddest loue thy first husbande. By those woordes ••ee he did put that into the woemans head, in so much that they accorded together. But whilest that hee vsed that deceite and plaide the Foxe with the poore woman, ther came a théefe more wily thē he, which stole away his Oxen and caryed them away. When hée was retourned and that he founde not his Oxen, hée did begin to wéepe and lament, and to strike his brest very bitterly. The woeman also came: and when shée had founde him wee∣ping and lamenting, shée sayd vnto him Doest thou wéepe yet. And hée aunswered vnto hir: nowe I wéepe ear∣nestly. Before his teares were fained and did but wéep•• outwardly, and laughed in his heart as our Priestes do at the Funeralls and Obsequies of the dead. But I am altogether certeine, that there shall bée no iestinge nor Crocodiles teares, in the burying of their Purgatorye. For as soone as he shall be dead, the Masse shall not liue longe after. And so they shall haue two bodyes whiche will bringe vnto them great sorrowe and heauinesse. But I beléeue that they will not bestowe so much mo∣ney about them, for to make their good déedes, as they haue gotten and heaped together by their meanes. But let vs suffer them to wéepe their fill, as well as they haue made others wéepe, & let vs singe when they wéepe. Ne∣uerthelesse I will yet doe for them this seruice, to make for them a lamentation and complaint, to moue them the better to pittie and compassion vpon that poore dead body. For me thinckes that I doe heare them already lament in this wise.

Now let vs lament we Moonkes and we Nunnes. Priests, bawdes and whoores, with our bastard sonnes. For now the hot Furnaces quenched are that haue made vs fat with their deintie fare. Now we may compt our selues in euill case for the good time we had hath lost his place.

And dead is he that did heape vp in chest, Money wherewith we made our Gaudemus. Alas he is now at peace and at rest, Wherefore let vs sing an other Oremus.

Let vs suffer them to sing that in stéede of Vigiles and of Libera me, and of their Fidelium, and I will make his Epitaph, which shall serue him for his latter Oremus.

O gentle sir Iohn, who of Purgatory Hast gotten so much of siluer and golde: Make speedely to be known to all of the Popry, To sing Requiem aeternam for his sweete soule. By him an Epicures lyfe thou didst lead, But now alas he is dead an hath no place: And with him thy earthly kingdome is dead. Sing for him then Requiescant in pace.

Thomas.

Amen. Now sith that he is buryed let vs goe to Supper, that he may haue also his funerall Supper, and that wée may as well banket as the priests in those of the dead in the dayes of their Anniuersaries & yeares minde.

Hillarius.

Let vs goe.

FINIS.

Notes

• The disposition of this dialogue
• Thob. 4. d 18.
• The booke of Thobie.
• The exposition of the place of Thoby.
• 〈…〉〈…〉 stovve ones bread & vvine vpon the burtial of the righteous Thob••••••••••
• The place of Thoby 〈◊〉〈◊〉 to the 〈◊〉〈◊〉.
• An other p••ace taken out of the psalme, 66
• The place of the 1. Cor, 3. c. 11
• Aunswere to y^e place of the Psalmes.
• Esai••. 4. •• 4. ••ere 49. •• 27 1. Pet. 1. b 7.
• 1. Cor. 3 ••••••. The exposition of the place of the Corrithians
• The tresure of the Church.
• De ciui. dei. li. 21. ca. 26. Trac. defid. & oper. c. 16. Ench. ca. 68
• Theophila. in 1. Cor. 3.
• Psal. 19 c. 11
• A comparison of the d••••••ne and hum••••ne doctrine.
• The day of the Lord.
• The fire.
• •• Pet, ••, b. 7
• To be saued by the syre.
• Col, 1. c. 18. &. ••, b. 10. ••••hc. 1. d. 22
• The 〈◊〉〈◊〉 of foolish buil∣ders.
• Philip. 3. b. 8
• Ambro. in 1. Cor. 3. The custome of the false and tru•• doctors
• Psal. 116, b. 11 2. Cor. 4. c 13
• Proue••b••. Rogula Lesbia. Arist. ••••. •• mora. Eras. chil.
• The place o•• Ma••. ••, ••••, ••5.
• The Sargeants of Purgatori••,
• L••••. 16. b. ••0
• Act, •••• b. 7 ••eon. de ••tin. se••¦••. d••••••or. Aut Flo••e••••ia Sum.
• Prouerbe The candl•• before.
• The vse of al∣leg••••••es.
• Exposition al∣lego••••••all.
• Merc••••y.
• The sence of the vvords of •• Iesus Christ.
• Bretherly re∣〈◊〉〈◊〉 Ch••••s•• •••• M••. 5. Homil. 16.
• The prison.
• Do••••••.
• Genes. ••, b. ••.
• Math. ••. d 25
• Helindius.
• Psa. ••••••. ••••.
• The sence and me••ning of the parable. Ma••. ••••. ••. ••0,
• The 〈◊〉〈◊〉 ••••d meaning of the vvords of Sa••••t Luke. ••1.
• The place of Sainct Mat. •••• c 31. Luc. ••••. b. ••0
• Dialo. 4. D••st. 25. ca Qual••s.
• Ex puris nega∣tiu•••• nihil se∣quitur.
• Mar 3. d 19
• Propositions., Eq••poll••••is.
• Di••ersitie of pardons.
• Sinne against the holy Ghost.
• Against the Crigeniste••
• A temporal eternitie.
• Chriso. in Mat. 12. ••omel, 42
• 1. Cor. ••••, 2 〈◊〉〈◊〉 •• Luc, 6. c. 23
• Gen••••, ••••, ••, 24
• Iohn, 15 Act. 20 ••••. 20
• Pre••ching to the dead.
• ••ohn, 35••
• The povver of the keyes, Mat. 16 c. 19 &. 18. c. 18
• The povver of the keyes & the Indulgences for the dead.
• In. 4. Sent. Res••erper. de mor virt serm. Dom. in sexa.
• Betvvene vvhe¦ther the soules of purgatory are prented.
• Monkes dead to the vvorld
• Prouerbe. Mortus non mordent. The dead do byte.
• The Pope the 〈◊〉〈◊〉 of Saint Peter.
• Absolucion of the quick and the dead.
• The office of a Lieutenant.
• Math, ••. c. 22
• Mat, 18. c. ••0 &. 28. d 20
• The keyes of Saint Peter & the Pope.
• Simon Peter. Mat. 16. c. 19 Iohn. 1. ••••. 42
• The keyes of Symon. Iohn. 10. ••. 7 Luc. 11. g. 52
• Purgatery of purses.
• Pagatore.
• The great lockyer.
• The priesthod of the dead.
• The papisticall creame. Character indelibilis.
• so. Chanes. de sacra. Corp. Ch••••.
• The burning of the consience 1. T••••oth, 4. ••. 2.
• The marke of the vvhore. Apoc. 13. c. 8
• Apoc. 7. ••, 4
• The example of Fryer Ro∣ger.
• Tho. dist. ••5 q. 2. & dist. 20 q. ••. ar. 3. & dist. 4••. q. 4. ar. 1.
• The bulles in purgatory
• The intercessiō of the Saints for vs.
• Grego. Rat. 〈◊〉〈◊〉 off. ••••. 7 Rub. de off. Mort.
• Aug. li. de ••ur. pro mor. Agen. 13. q. 2 Faten∣dum Ra••. d••••••. off. R••b. de off. mor.
• The Pope hath more povv••r 〈◊〉〈◊〉 the sa••••ts
• Syllogism••.
• The pope is god •••• •• more then god.
• Antechrist. 2. Thess. ••, 2. ••. ••
• The place of Purgatory. Plut. l••. de fa∣•••••• qu•• v••situr in Luna••.
• The keyes of hell.
• The maners to knovv God ••xod. ••••. •• 23 To see God be∣f••re & 〈◊〉〈◊〉
• •• ••o. ••••. ••. 20
• vvhat knovv¦ledge of god is necessary for vs
• Argument A posteriori
• Iere. 1••. d. 20
• Man making gods.
• One onely god. Deut. 6. ••. 4
• Psa. 42. ••, •• &. 48 ••
• Boniface the ••.
• To take avvay and giue ••ing∣dome••.
• 〈◊〉〈◊〉 ••, 3, 4. ••
• Plat in ••it. B••••••f 8 〈◊〉〈◊〉 ••ing of 〈◊〉〈◊〉
• Prochet Arch∣byshoppe of Genes. 〈◊〉〈◊〉 d•• ••••. 〈◊〉〈◊〉 The as••hes of pope Bo••••ace, Me••eto homo. quia 〈◊〉〈◊〉 ••••, & •••• 〈◊〉〈◊〉 reuer••••r••••. G••bell••••s. Memeto hom•• quia G••bell••∣•••••• ••••, & cum Gibell•••••• 〈◊〉〈◊〉 re••••r∣〈◊〉〈◊〉.
• The ••••g•• ••nd
• madnesse •••• Pope Stephen against ••o••••o∣sus.
• Plat. in vit. Steph. ••. St••ll•• ••leri••or•• O ••e••era••d•• sacerd••tum dign••tas, si digne & sa∣cerdo ta••••••er vixeris ••ntra quorum ma∣nus, velut in v••ero virginis, filius d••i in∣carnatur. Item. Iste qui crea∣••••t me, ded••t m••hi crear•• s••. Qui crea∣••it ••e sine me, creatur med••ante me. The creatours of the Cr••a••our
• Item Cum ergo tā ••e dignitatis sit sacerd•••• quod creator sit sui creato∣r••••, & tot•••• creaturae, ipsū perdere vel damnare incō∣uenien•• est. Vnde Isidorus. Sicut patrem interficere filiū impos••bile est, sie creatorem perdere crea∣turam in con∣uenient est. Sylla & Ma∣r••••is.
• Plat. In vit••. Serg. 3. Sergius & Fermesus.
• To excommu∣nicate the dead. 2. 4. q. Sane. 2
• Herman con∣dempned by the Pope. Plat. in vit. Bonis. 8.
• ••f ••oma the ••hler of the ••aith.
• Saint Herman.
• Saint Levves. canonized.
• Dead men the gods vnto Ido∣laters.
• Herodia. li. 4.
• Henricus. 4.
• Math, to, c. 28
• The vertue of the bulles and pardons.
• Iubile of the Pope. Plat in vit. Bems. 8. ••ubile of God. Leuit. 5, b. 11
• Luc, d. c, 16 Esa. 61, a, 〈◊〉〈◊〉
• The playes of the panyms.
• Luds seculares.
• Clement. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. Plat. in vi••. Clement. 6. Sextu•• B••nauenture de••••ied. Alexander. 6
• The Pope the iudge of the quicke and of the dead.
• Gregory. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. hath made no mentiō of the bulles for the dead.
• Hostiensis con∣trary vnto the bul••es.
• Scolastical doc∣tours doubting of the bulles. Re••sperg. de mor. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. ser. d••m. sexa.
• Bulles doing all thinges.
• The treasor of the church, and the dispensation of the same. Alex. de A••es. In. 4. Sent. Re••sperg. de mor. virt. serm. D••m. in sexa.
• The povver of y^• ••e••es limi••ted in this world. 24 q. 2 ca. Quod aut. & le••atur. Mat, 16. c 19
• 24. q 2. ca. Sane.
• Contrarietie of the Canons.
• To excommu∣nicate the doc∣trine of y^e dead.
• The angells durst no•• curse the diuell. 〈◊〉〈◊〉 pist. Iud. b. 9
• In. 4 sent. Re••s••erg. de m••r. v••r. ser. d••m. 〈◊〉〈◊〉.
• The dispensatiō of the treasure of the Church.
• Vnto vvhome the pardons do profyt.
• The povver to giue pardons lymitted.
• The great Lockyer or locksmyth.
• Picke lockes.
• Clockes of Purgatory.
• Example of the long dayes in Purgatory.
• The povver of the deal ouer the Popes
• Pope Clement the 〈◊〉〈◊〉 by Fryer VValter being dead.
• The foundaciō of the order of the Mendicāts.
• The Popes euangelistes.
• The papistical Madianites. Iudg 7, g. ••2.
• The true Gedeō
• Esa. 9. 〈◊〉〈◊〉
• The place of Saint Luc. 12 〈◊〉〈◊〉. 47.
• Mat 22 b. 17
• The iudgement of the Sodomits and Gomorriās Genos. 19. c. 24.
• E••e••h. 18, 〈◊〉〈◊〉. 2••
• 2. Timo••. 2. c. 1••.
• The punishmēt of y^e elect with the reprobate.
• The kindred of Loth.
• Math. 10. b. 15
• Ignorance doth excuse none.
• Punishment vppon those vvhich do re∣iect the gospell.
• 〈◊〉〈◊〉 place of the Act. 1. d. ••4
• 〈◊◊◊〉〈◊◊◊〉
• 〈◊◊◊〉〈◊◊◊〉 Psa•• 〈◊◊◊◊◊〉〈◊◊◊◊◊〉, ••3
• Psal, 2••. 30, 49
• The place of the 1. Cor. 15 To b•• baptised for the dead
• Ambro. in 1. Cor. 15.
• Epipha. li. 1 Tom. 2. heres. 18.
• Theophilact. 〈◊〉〈◊〉, Cor. 15
• The place of the Phil, 2, b. 9
• To bovve the knee.
• The seignyary of Iesus Christ.
• Psal. 110. ••. 1
• Psa. 45. d. 23.
• ••om. 14 b. 10
• VVho do bow the knees vnder the ••rch.
• 〈◊〉〈◊〉 d. 10. Mar. 1•• 24
• The prayer of the 〈◊〉〈◊〉
• Theophi. in Epist. phi••. 2.
• The place of the Apoc. 5. 〈◊〉〈◊〉 13
• The prayse ge∣uen to God of all creatures.
• Psal. 19. a. 〈◊〉〈◊〉
• The speaking of the muet cre∣atures & those that haue no bodyes.
• Psal. 1••5. b. 5
• Apo•• 21. g, 27
• Esa. 35. d. 8.
• 1. Cor. 15. ss. 5••
• Apo. 1, b. 5 Act. 15. b. 9 Iohn. 15 a. 3
• Psa. 32. a. 2
• Requiescant in pace of purga∣tory.
• The vvells and ponds of fire & brimstone. Apoc. 19. d. ••0
• The place of the. 〈◊〉〈◊〉 Pet. 3. d, 19
• ••r••••ching to 〈◊〉〈◊〉.
• Aduertisement.
• 1. Pet 3, d 18
• 1. Pet. 4, b. 〈◊〉〈◊〉.
• The first expo∣sition.
• The liuing cal∣led dead.
• VVhat is the spirit vvhich hath preached to the dead.
• A &. 2. 〈◊〉〈◊〉 4
• ••phe 〈◊〉〈◊〉, 〈◊〉〈◊〉, 2
• Mat, 18 ••ohn, 20 1, Cor. 12.
• ••enes. 7. 〈◊〉〈◊〉, 〈◊〉〈◊〉 1, pet. 2. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. 5.
• Exo. 12. & 13 Genes.
• The herold of righteousnes.
• 2. Pet. 2. 〈◊〉〈◊〉, 〈◊〉〈◊〉,
• The spi••••ts p••••so••e••s,
• Genes. 6. a, 5
• 2, Cor. 〈◊〉〈◊〉 b. 5
• Genes. 6. a. 2
• The sence and meaning of the vvordes of Saint Peter.
• ••ohn, 6
• Heb. 13. b. 〈◊〉〈◊〉
• Genes, 6, & 7
• An other ex∣position
• 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 vn∣to the dead
• Iohn, 6, 〈◊〉〈◊〉. ••3
• Iohn, 8. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. 56.
• The predicatiō to the dead.
• The descending of Iesus Christ into hell.
• Lue, 13. ff. ••3
• The Li••••e. Za••h, 〈◊〉〈◊〉, 〈◊〉〈◊〉
• The prisoners. The vvells.
• The prison
• 〈◊〉〈◊〉. Cor.
• Gene••. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. 〈◊〉〈◊〉
• 1. P••••. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. b. 〈◊〉〈◊〉.
• Those vvhich haue not bele∣ued in this vvorld.
• Iohn. 〈◊〉〈◊〉 c, 1••
• 1. Iohn. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. 9 Cornelius Act. 10 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉.
• Heb. 11, b, 6.
• Rom 2. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. 1••.
• VVhat knovv∣ledge of God is necessary to saluation.
• Mat. 1••. d, ••6 Pro. ••1. a, 1.
• Saul•• being a persecutor, made an apostle Act 9. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. 1.
• The burning of Purgatory.
• The fable of y^e fayned mour∣ning of a labo∣rer.