D. Sarauia. 1. Of the diuerse degrees of the ministers of the gospell. 2. Of the honor vvhich is due vnto the priestes and prelates of the church. 3. Of sacrilege, and the punishment thereof. The particular contents of the afore saide Treatises to be seene in the next pages.

Chap. XXXI. The stipendaries cald to accompt and confuted.

NOw let vs call their reasons to an euen reckoning, which appoint Ministers their maintenance by the Magistrate his allowance. For now a dayes this is thought a better deuise, then the ancient receyued vse of offerings & glebes. And reason too: for by this means, many inconueniences may be auoyded, which mans infir∣mity bringeth with it. But theyr reasons and arguments are of a new mold, & not knowen to the Fathers, or not thought worthy, for the which oblations should be deposed from theyr former state. Theyr first reason is this. That by this means an occasion might be taken away, so that men could not so readily make marchandise of the word of God, which otherwise might be easie for them to doe, who imploying their whole Ministery to gain and vsury, would apply them∣selues vnto thē most, of whom they hoped to receiue most.

I aunswer, that the contrary may rather seeme more like∣ly, seeing that the very couenanting for a stipend, is in the next degree to a flat bargayn (vnlesse we would iudge bar∣gaining by giuing and taking, and measure the same by the minds of men rather then the matter.) For what other thing is it to marchandise, then to sel any then for lucre sake? But when the Magistrate setteth down a certain price for the Mi∣nisters labor, or the Minister himselfe requireth the same, al∣beit in plain termes there is no bargain made of either side, yet notwithstāding of both, these may seem rather to buy & sell the word, then they which liue by the oblations of the faithfull, or the increase of theyr fields. Oblations are not certayne, and they haue in them a certayne kinde of Reli∣gion: but stipends are certaine, and are in theyr nature more ciuill, religious not at all. Now whether, I pray you, may be

sayd rather to sell? He which in respect of his holy Ministery receyueth the free gifts of his people, or he which rateth his labour at a certaine set stipend? Our fore-fathers in wisedom thought, that this religious marchandise of religion could by no meanes be better auoided, then if on both parts they made a religion in that very action of offering and receiuing. I conclude therfore, that this mischiefe which som are affraid of, namely that the whole Ministery should be giuen to gaine & vsury, can neuer by this means be auoided in coue∣teous men: their minds being so affected (or infected rather) as that they would make a gaine of any thing, and being al∣waies ready to conuay themselues thither, wher the greatest wages might be had.

Againe (say they) that liberty of speech which is necessa∣ry in a Minister, may thus be better performed: For of whō they shall daily receiue somwhat, they either could not taxe their vice, or else they must doe it with losse to themselues: but now where no man giueth any thing of his owne, they may admonish all degrees of men, with more boldnesse and lesse daunger.

This reason partly confuteth it selfe, and may easely bee retorted, and partly falleth in his own strength, and can no waies be relieued. For is it not to bee feared also, that the Ministers should speak in fauor of them, of whom they take wages? These men for the most part haue greater faults then the most part; and yet if the Pastor chaunce but to stir their humor, their stipend is in hazard. Let a Preacher with his li∣berty offend a whole multitude, he shal not endanger either himselfe, or his estate so much, as if he displease but one Ma∣gistrat. As for liberty of speach, it is generally a very popu∣lar and plausible thing, with the which while a few are offen∣ded, many are well pleased, and the euill will of a few got∣ten by this meanes, procureth the good will of a great many. Besides, our Sauiour prouided but badlye for his Disciples, (if this reason bee of any force) when as in the olde law hee commaunded the Priests and Leuites to liue of the oblations of the people, as also in the new Testament,

he would haue his Apostles and theyr successors to liue of the Gospell, If the daunger be such, that therfore they may not taxe vice. But it seemeth, these men haue eyther not at∣tayned to the knowledge of oblations, or regard but a little what is read in the most ancient Diuines, concerning the same. First he which thinketh, that by this meanes the suspi∣tion of flattery is taken away, greatly deceyueth himselfe, & rashly condemneth the auncient Fathers. But goe to: let vs confer the Sermons of the Fathers which liued by oblations, and the seuerity of Ecclesiasticall discipline vsed in those dayes, with the Sermons and proceedings of our Preachers of this age. Shall we not be ashamed (if we blush not) of our selues and our times, in the which all vice are so rise, and all discipline so slacke? doubtlesse, that liberty of our Fathers in reprehending sins of old, doth euen now reprehend vs. Again let the Pastors Sermons, where they liue of the deuo∣tion of the people, be compared with those, where they stād to the stipend of the Magistrate, and it will easely appeare whether of them doe best performe theyr duety in this be∣halfe. But last of all, what need they depend vppon the vo∣luntary deuotion of the people, where besides their ordina∣ry oblations, there are fayr glebes and sufficient lands pro∣uided for the vse of the Church? To the which we may also adde, that it is the duty of a christian Magistrat, to cause the people to performe their duety towards theyr Pastors: so that it is altogether a needelesse fear which is here alledged. And whereas they thinke that the suspicion of flattery is by this meanes auoyded (as if they were in daunger to be smo∣thed in theyr sinnes, which are rich, and giue with a full hand) it is but a foolishe conceit, arising from that error, that christians are not bound to their oblations; or else of this nicety, that it is vnseemely (forsooth) and superstitious to bring them to the Church, or otherwise to gather them. By the which in deede they haue made themselues the patrons of the sacriledge of this age, which hath left nothing for the Ministers worthy the gathering vp: so that if there bee any want in oblations, there want must be supplied else where.

But by certaine stipends (say they) the modesty of Mini∣sters, and the honesty of their family are prouided for. For what ingenious man would willingly make his neede know∣en to euery man? and with what face can they of the familye goe doore by doore to gather things necessary? verily their credite is indangered, and theyr modesty.

But did you euer heare, that the Ministers of the Church were brought to such an exigent, as that of force they must gather their relief from dore to dore, among their own peo∣ple? In deed, there was such a custome in the time of Popery for mendicant Friers, brought vp among them of a cer∣tayne superstition, without any precedent president of the auncient Fathers. But is there no other way to gather chri∣stian oblations, but so? and are they not eyther brought by the faithfull of theyr own voluntary, or collected by some of the honest neighbours appointed for that purpose? But of the other side, by the certaine stipends which depend vp∣pon the vncertaine pleasures of the Magistrates, it is very badly prouided, both for the necessity of the family, and the modesty of the Ministers, where either so small wages are allowed, or their allowance so slenderly paied, that the poor Pastors (pittifull complayning) for meere pouerty are con∣strained to giue ouer theyr trade, and to forsake theyr Mi∣nistery. Where the people are perswaded, that they owe no∣thing to theyr Pastors, and that it pertaineth to the Magi∣strate onely to prouide for the Ministers (alâcke poore Pa∣stors) I am ashamed to report, how both people and Magi∣strate beare themselues towards them.

But furthermore they dispute,, that in these stipends the Ministers can vse no deceite, when it shalbe sufficiently kno∣wen, how much they receiue: when as otherwise, a couetous Minister may pretend, that eyther he receiueth lesse then he receiueth, or not so much as sufficeth.

To this I aunswere, that the oblations, of the which we argue the case, are not so secretly giuen, or so closely kept, but that it is commonly knowen how much they are, and what the Minister receiueth. But to what purpose is al this?

or to what end should al know how much the minister either receyueth, or hath? or who can prescribe a meane for that matter? The Pastor layeth out as well as he taketh in: & must that also needs be knowen? That which they adde, of the co∣ueteous Minister, who may pretend that he receyueth lesse, then either he receiueth, or may well suffice, it proceedeth of the same errour. I haue knowen many Ministers in my time, among whome there is not one, whose wealth is not commonly knowen, and what he ordinarily receyueth eue∣ry year; so that there is no other means for them to lie here, then there, vnlesse you would lie for them. But to what end are these reasons? or how, thinke they, did the ancient Bi∣shops of the Church liue? Ignatius, Ireneus, Cornelius, Cyprian, and such like, whose memorial wil continue with their glo∣ry to the worlds end? A man shall neuer preuent the cauels of malitious men, whether the Ministers liue of tithes and oblations, or whether they stick to theyr certain allowance: both here, and there, whatsoeuer is receiued wil be thought too much of some. I haue often times heard the Boores groyn and grunt to this effect, that a stipend of two, three or foure hundred Flemish Florences was great wages. I (sayd they) can keepe my family for lesse: Neyther do I re∣ceyue so much of all the gayne that I can make; thus vne∣qually comparing not them selues with them selues, but theyr styes with the state of they Ministers. As if ther were no difference betweene a priuate man of the basest rout, & a publique Minister at the hie Altar: And yet two or three years wages wil scarce serue to buy him books, & bsides, of duty he ought to be boūtifull & intertainable to the needy.

But now they say, that by this means it is well prouided for the subiects, who for the most part are but poore, & liue hardly in theyr Villages: For how should they maintain the Minister, who are themselues to be maintained?

Here in deed is the error of our age to be noted, which in some places giue to the ciuill Magistrate the goods of the Church, and permitteth them to gather vp tithes, which are due to the Minister. But to the purpose. In villages, the poor

which haue nothing, giue nothing, if it be litle which a man hath, he giueth litle: euery man payeth his tith according to his wealth, and according to the greatnes of his increase, whether the commodity lie in tillage, or in herbage. And in deed the poore could no waies better be prouided for, that they should not relieue theyr Pastors, themselues being to be relieued, then thus; for by this means the Pastors are maine∣tayned by them which haue much, & they maintaine them which haue nothing. The increase of theyr fields, for the most part, keepe a certain scantline, & euermore the number of them is greater, which receiue, then of the poore which want the same. But these their reasons are too blame, that both poore & Pastors are so badly prouided for, as they are: for by thē the goods, which are consecrate to holy vses, are betraied to prophane wretches, of whom themselues must now goe beg their allowance, and be glad to serue and flat∣ter in most slauish sort for their iust reward.

But yet again they argue, that men will seek occasion to dis∣charge their Minister, when they shal see that they must giue often, & shal hear their vices inueighed against; & so wil fain causes with greater autority & contentiō to thrust him out.

But who seeth not here, how weakely this argument is grounded euen vppon an euil grounded gouernment of the Church, who leaue in the peoples hands, to place & displace their Pastors at their pleasure; & yet, if it so falleth out at any time (as it falleth out, so often as they fall out) the christian Magistrat must be but an idle auditor in this iniury, & haue no autority at all to compell the wicked in this case to theyr duty. But let Cornelius Bishop of Rome an holy Martyr aun∣swere this, who being destitute of the ayde of the christian Magistrate, and being infested by Nouatus his faction so far forth, as that he was not far from giuing vp his hold, and yeelding to the wicked; yet did he euer want of those his or∣dinary oblations, euen in the midst of so much euil will, and so many dissentions, so that he could not maintain therewith his 500. and 50. clerkes, and a 1000. 500. poore people? Neither were any of the Fathers, which liued of oblations,

euer fearefull of the wicked, but were euer fearfull to the wicked, and were feared.

Of no greater force is that which they say, that euil men being reprehended, wil giue nothing, but will rather suffer their Minister to famish for hunger. As if that were not ra∣ther to be feared least it should be done, (as we haue experi∣ence of the doing) by the Magistrat which payeth them wa∣ges, when so euer a good Minister shal displease a bad Magi∣strate, But it seldome falleth out, that Pastors haue only euil men in their parishes; the Lords flocke is mixt of good and bad. The good doe loue that which the wicked doe hate, whom to displease is a great praise among good men; who will not suffer the faithful Minister to suffer losse for his wel doing, but will themselues supply that, which they shall see wanting on the part of the wicked.

But there is commonly alledged an other commodity of these stipends, namely this, for that the Ministers may not seeme to take any thing of them of whom they ought not, as are the notorious vngodly, and noted Heretiques, with whom a man ought not to haue any thing to doe: as also of the good and godly, beeing poore and needy, to whome a man ought rather to giue: as are widows, orphans, the sick and needy, whome to pill and pole is a point of cruell Re∣ligion. But I pray you, where doth the Magistate receaue, or of whome doth he contract those things, by the which the Ministers are paied their stipends? Of their owne goods, or out of the publique treasurie? but is not that confusedly ga∣thered of the wicked togeather with the godly, of the poore together with the rich? This is indeed a strange religion, that it shall not be lawfull for Pastors to take of them, of whome the Magistrate taketh that he giueth them. All men pay sub∣sidie, and other tributes of the common-wealth, without re∣spect of person, euery man according to the moity of hys substaunce: Of them which haue nothing, they take no∣thing.

But this their religion is like vnto that of the Franciscanes, who when they make great daintie to handle anye money

with their proper fingers, they haue other to doe it for thē. I admit, it is a thing not beseeming a godly Pastor, to take of all commers: but as the voluntary oblations of wicked rich men are not to bee receaued, so the free offerings of godlie poor men are not to be refused (so that they exceed not the ability of the giuer) For although it be litle which is giuen, yet seeing it is the fruite of godlines, it ought neither to bee contemned of the Pastor, nor yet suppressed in the faithfull. But bee it remembred, that I said, the voluntary oblations of the wicked: for no doubt, a Minister of the Gospel may take tythes euen of infidels also, if they be due to the Minister by the law and custome of the Countrey: neither is religion a∣ny more violated in so doing, then when the rents of farmes are paid, or receaued of husband-men our tenants, that are heretiques.

As for the argument they drawe from the vaine ostenta∣tion of the contributors, who because they could not be vn∣knowen, contention might arise among them, who should exceed the rest; it is an argument none at all: vnlesse by the same reason, we will haue Christians to abstaine from good works, to auoyd ostentation. But no man is to be diswaded from bounteous beneficency, least he should fal into the af∣fectation of vaine-glory. And that contention and emula∣tion is good, when one man striueth to excel another in wel∣doing: as for the hearts and minds of men, let vs leaue them for God to iudge.

But their last argument is this, that there is no comman∣dement, that Ministers of the Church should be maintained by the oblations of the people: by the which it may be con∣cluded, that it is not necessary that the same maner of main∣taining the Ministery should bee maintained alike in all pla∣ces, and at all times: but that all things ought to be referred to good order, that they may be done to edification.

I answere, that albeit the Minister of the Church be not commanded to liue of the oblations of the people: (for hee may liue of his owne, and for certaine causes spare the peo∣ple for a time:) yet notwithstanding, in the meane while the

commaundement abideth, by the which the people are bound to honour their Pastor, and by the liberall participa∣tion of their goods, to testifie their gratefull & godly deuo∣tion towardes God, and him. Neither is the question so much for the Ministers maintenaunce, as for the godly re∣gards and grateful minds of the faithful towards God, who is alwaies most honored, or dishonored in his seruants. For my part, I knowe not as yet the customes of all nations and countreys: Neither am I he, that will prescribe to any man in this matter.

In the meane while, I speake of those things which I haue learned by great vse and long experience; and it greueth me, that in many things of like nature, wee abolish olde thinges, and suborne worse. True it is, that parishes vnder the Pope, had their priuileges, their glebes, their rents and their tithes, by which their Pastors were wel maintained; & now, because some abuses be crept in, shall the whole vse of them be taken away? Me thinks these are but cold reasons I haue now con∣futed: with the which it were to be wondered, that any man should bee caried away, were it not that the hatred of Pope∣rie did hurry men headlong into vaine contrarieties in such things as are, or haue bene vsed among them.

Notes

• A Flemishe florence or gilderne, is 2. shillings sterling.