The churches plea for her right, or, A reply to an answer made of Mr. Iohn Paget against William Best and others wherein the maine points of our present differences are handled and the principall causes of our troubles declared / published by William Best.

SECTION IX.

THat those, who haue read M^r. Pagets Booke, may not thinke that I haue purposely omitted any thing (his jests, slaunders, and unchristian termes excepted) which carieth with it, the shew of any matter, touching the maine points in question. I haue thought good in this Section, to set downe some brief answers unto certain colourable (or rather carnall) pretences, which hee useth in the de∣fence of himself and cause.

His first reason is this: If particular Congregations should not stand under any other Ecclesiasticall authoritie out of themselves, ma∣nifold disorders, confusion and dissipation of Churches would follow.

Answ. 1. VVhen God hath established an order for the admini∣stration of his owne house, what presumption of man dares change it? Thinkes hee, that hee is wiser, then the Almighty; and can by his foolish way, and devise, bring more peace and profit to Gods house, then the way of the all wise God? But what will not dust and ashes presume to doe, against his maker? And that with shew of conveniency, and to correct and reforme that, which they conceive to be imperfect in his doings? But it seemes in the meane time,

that these little consider, how streightly the Lord hath forbidden such practises; and what dreadfull plagues hee threatneth against men for it. As M^r. Paget therefore wisheth others, to take heed what new formes of Churches, and Church-gouvernment, they frame unto themselves, or command unto others: So I desire that hee him∣self will make a proffitable use of his owne counsell.

2. Be it well considered, that God alwayes abhorreth all good intentes of men, that are contrary to the good pleasure of his will, revealed in his word. The Church (sayth Whitakerb) must not be gouverned as the wit of man thinketh fit; but as Christ the Lord and King thereof will have it.

3. This objection taken here up by M^r. Paget, is the very same which the Papists, and those that way affected use, for to haue Ec∣clesiasticall Gouvernment, by Presbyters rejected, and their owne Popish Hierarchy, everywhere received and practised; viz. because the putting by of the later, tendethc unto all mischief, and the esta∣blishing of the formerd, causeth uproares in the Church, dissipateth it, and overthrowes all good order therein.

4. If particular Congregations must loose their right and power, because of the offences, which some men haue committed in the exercise thereof. Then surely by the same reason, (if, M^r. Pagets reasoning be worth any thing) ought Classes and Synods, to lay downe that superiour authority, which they haue taken over many Churches; because they in many things, many times haue offended, in, and about the execution. And this I am sure, no good Christian will deny, I could give divers instances for it; but it needs not: Onely it is not amisse to set downe Nazianzens‡ words; who was an Elder, or Bishop: I am minded (sayth hee) to shunne all assem∣blies of Bishops, because I never saw any good event in any Councell, that did not rather increase, then diminish our evills: Their contention and ambition passeth my speach. VVhither things are better ca∣ryed now, then they were in his time, I will not, nor am able to judge.

5. If the infirmities of the people, be a good reason to take away their liberty, in practising among themselves all Gods ordinances: then the contrary vertues, which oftentimes haue bene found in them, (as instaying the rage of the Scribes and Pharisiesa; in pre∣ferring, sincere Christians before Arriansb; and being themselves

sound in the faithc; when their Ministers haue bene Heretickes:) is a good reason to maintaine their liberty still.

Another thing which hee talkes much off, is, that the power which the Classis exerciseth, is ancient; and hence names it, the old beaten path, &c.

Answ. 1. Sundry errours are as ancient as the Apostles time, yea began before the most famous Churches in the world were plan∣ted. Therefore as Cypriand sayth, Wee must not regard what any others did before us, or thought fit to be done, but what Christ did, who was before all.

2. Howsoever M^r. Paget, for the credit of his cause, names it, the old and ancient Discipline; yet sure I am, to proove it so, hee never will, nor can. There are many (and I thinke hee knowes it) which doe affirme, that the Ecclesiasticall Gouvernment, by Classes and Synods, is a weed that grew many yeares after the Apostles. A late devisee, and that in all antiquitie, there doth not appeare any one stept thereoff; Also that at Geneva, subjecting of Churches to this order first begung. And before Calvin came there, everie Congre∣gation was free in it selfh.

Touching these Assertions: I cannot see how M^r. Paget, or any other is able to disproove them. It is acknowledged, on all sides, that in the first hundred yeares after the Apostles, Ministers and Brethren of sundry Congregations, met sometimes; to conferre mutually together of common Church-affaires; yet so, as every particular Congregation, had alwayes (as the Centuriesi write) power and authority in themselves, to chuse their Officers, reject Heretickes, excommunicate offenders, and the like.

So againe, for a hundred yeares next after; wee read in Eusae∣beusk, Iraeneusa, Nicephorusb, and others, that neighbour Mini∣sters came often together, when there was any daungerous errour broched, or weighty points to be determined, serving for generall good: but this they did of liberty, not of duety; partly to preserve mutuall society; (as Zipperus sayth) and partly that they might hereby be the more able, to resist adversaries, as M^r. Parker‡ sayth.

This ancient combination, wee hold to be lawfull and necessary,

that is; when there is just occasion: that then Ecclesiasticall Officers and others, doe come together, to conferre of things; yea and con∣clude (if they can) what they judge meet and good: Notwithstan∣ding whatsoever they doe in such cases, the same is of no force at all, (I mean as to be counted a Church-act, or sentence;) unlesse the Church first know it, and give their free consent unto it; the reason is, because the power and authority, to make Church-acts, is in the body of the Congregation, as wee haue before shewed. As for any other kind of combinations, of many Ministers together, other∣wise then wee haue here related; as the word of God, sheweth it not, neither doth antiquity; If by antiquity the first and best ages of Christian Churches be understood.

I will not here dispute how things went, about Constantines time, because as the Learned say; viz. Casaubona, D. Whitakerb, Mornaeus, Brightman‡, and others; that men began then to devise a new order and manner of Gouverning Churches, according as they thought fittest, to agree with the times. And so much wee find te∣stified by Cypriane, Eusaebiusf, and Ambroseg. For the change it self, This new created Discipline, was not Classicall, but rather Episcopall, so that howsoever they are, both children of the earth, notwithstanding this I doe affirme, that of the two, the Hierarchie is the oldest.

And howsoever M^r. Beza is very streyt to the people; hardly granting the liberty which the very Iesuits doe: yet hee is con∣streyned to confesse, that the first Deacons were chosen by them, but (sayth hee‡ this manner of election was neither essentiall, nor perpe∣tuall. For after when experience taught that confusion and ambition (rysing by the occasion of the multitude increasing) was to be pre∣vented: The Synod of Laodicea prudently tooke order by their 13 Canon, that the election of such, as were chosen to the sacred Mi∣nisterie, should not be permitted to the multitude or people.

My purpose is not to say any thing now of that Synod: how, of the 59 Canons, mentioned by Gratian, some are false; others foolish; and many very superstitious. This onely I desire the Rea∣der to note, whereas it is here objected, that this Synod, prohibited the body of the Congregation, from using that liberty and power, which they before alwayes had in Ecclesiasticall gouvernment; and gave it (as hee sayth a little after) to assembly of Pastours: By this

testimony then, that which I sayd, but now is further confirmed; namely, that the Classicall authority is neither divine nor ancient; for this Synod of Laodicea was held after the death of Iovinian the Emperour: Anno 370. or thereabout.

Thirdly hee pretendeth that the Discipline, which hee standeth for, is a sanctuarie against Tyrannie‡ and if men had not libertie to appeale unto Classes, they should have cause to bewaile their slaverie and bondage.

Answ. 1. It is a strange course, when there ariseth a controver∣sy touching two contrary opinions, which of them is true, and to be embraced; to draw the resolution hereof, to the consideration of the usefullnes of the opinions, or practises questioned. As if, because a thing is usefull, therefore it is to be concluded it is true: And not rather in case, it be found to be true, yea the very truth of God, the rule whereof is Gods word, therefore wee ought to conclude, it is usefull, and be carefull to make such use of it, as wee are com∣maunded: But what more common now a dayes, then for me, to obtrude their owne devises upon people, upon a bare pretence of the usefullnes of them in mans judgement: But in the meane time doe not those which take such courses, for the maintenance of their way, manifest hereby, that their cause is desperate, and that it seemes, they haue no grounds, for their opinions out of the word of God I say, when they runne out, unto such divinations as these, for the supporting of their labouring and wavering cause.

As for example, if the Scriptures doe directly teach: That every particular Congregation hath power to exercise Ecclesiasticall Gou∣vernment, and all Gods other spirituall ordinances, in, and for it self, immediately from Christ; shall wee not embrace this for a truth, unles it appeare in our phantasie more usefull then the con∣trary.

2. Let it againe be observed, that the Papists and Hierarchie, for their Discipline, give the very same reason; viz. to preserve the uni∣tie and peace of the Churcha, for the avoyding of sehismes and fa∣ction;b that there may be no Tyranny and oppression among Bre∣threnc &c. yea the corrupting at first of Church-gouvernment, was done to prevent evilld; but as one saythe the remedie was worse then the desease. And truely, so wee may say of all devises of

men, brought into the worship of God; although the Authours doe it to prevent this, or that evill: notwithstanding the invention it self, prooves (and wee haue seene it by experience) more hurt∣full, then the thing pretended against.

3. I doe deny that this Gouvernment by Classes and Synods, serves better for the Churches wellfaire, then that, which the Apostles instituted; and the primitive Churches first practised. Wise Politicians in their institutions of Gouvernment, doe hold for an infallible maxime, that to reforme corruptions and abuses in states, a better course cannot be taken, then to reduce things to their primitive originall. Hereto agrees D. VVhites, saying: The first in any kind or sort of things, is truest and best.

4. If it should be granted, that particular Congregations, by this kind of gouvernment, shall haue peace, profit, credit and other worldly respects: yet this is no sufficient reason to induce them to embrace it. For 1. wee must seeke peace by lawfull meanes. 2. Out∣ward quietnes, is not alwayes necessary for the Church; the Truth is like unto Camomill, the more you presse it downe, the faster it groweth, and spreadeth further, and smelleth sweeter. 3. Religion can subsist, without externall peace: I say, safely in the midst of contentions. 4. It is better to want this freedom, of which hee speaketh, holding fast the truth; then in sinne to haue it, and perish for it. 5. It is a rule among Lawers‡, that publicke profit, must not take place against Law; this holds firme, in all cases of Reli∣gion. To conclude then, in Nazianzens words: Let no man be wiser then is meet; not more just then the Law, more bright then the sun, streaghter then the rule, nor pretend more obedience then God requireth, &c. This hee speakes of Discipline.

Another of his reasons, is this: The power for which hee standeth, hath bene determined, limited and agreed upon, in many Nationall Synods. And all Reformed Churches use it.

Answ. 1. It is a received opinion among the Learned, that Councills may erre; yea, and often haue; as I could shew in many particulars. Besides who knowes not, that almost all the Fathers (as they are called) were infected with the errour of Millenaries. And almost all the Greeke writers and Latine, with the doctrine of free-will, merits, invocation on the Saints, and the like. And there∣fore

as one well sayth‡, Wee must not conclude a thing to be Apo∣stolicall, because the Church observeth it. And to the same effect write some Papists.

2. These testimonies are all humaine; and therefore it is enought if wee say, with our Lord‡ From the beginning it was not so; Or as hee sayd once: Woman what have I to doe with thee. So in matters of faith, what haue wee to doe with men. Away with mens writings, (sayth Augustine) let the voyce of God sound unto us: Let the Booke of God, come amongst us; Let us heare what Christ saith, and what the truth speaketh. For our judgements and expositions without these witnesses, have no credit, sayth Origen.

3. This reason, is the same, which the Papists use; viz. the De∣creesa of Synods, the opinions of the Fathers, the custome of men, and practise of the Church. But marke what answer our Protestant Di∣vines make to it: Nob humaine proofe is sure in Divinity, truth is not to be tried by consent of Fathers: Never shall they perswade us any thing in matter of Religion, which they cannot proove by Moyses and the Prophets. Make us good proofes out of Scriptures; Otherwise if ye cite, not onely 9, but 9 skore Fathers, wee regard it not. Now this answer will serve me as well; seeing M^r. Paget and they, doe use one and the same reasoning.

Another objection which hee hath against us; is: Because wee haue not framed our accusation and protestation against him, before this present; seeing the practise hath continued among us many yeares, &c.

Answ. Formy part, I never knew, that our Congregation was in such deepe bondage; untill M^r. Hookers troubles began; but thought verely, that our owne Eldership, with the Brethren jointly together, had full power among themselves, to practise every ordi∣nance of God. And the thing specially, which induced me so to thinke, was his owne words, writen to M^r. Ainsworth; repor∣ting how hee was first made our Minister, hee sayth: The Dutch Eldership in this City being desired, hath for their counsell and help in his ordination; deputed three of their Brethren, to assist us in this busines, &c. this they did not, as assuming authoritie‡ to themselves over us: but in our name, and by our request. Being now established, when as of late another Minister was called unto our Congregation,

wee used not their help herein as before; but his ordination was perfor∣med by our owne Ministerie and Eldership without them.

If the Classis assumed not then, any authority unto themselves over us, how comes it to passe, that they doe it now? Or how will it hang together, that their power is ancient; and yet 20 or 30 yeares past, they used it not. This to me seemes grosse contradi∣ction; and that hee eates his owne words, as Saturne did his chil∣dren.

But I gesse what hath caused him, to tell two contrary tales; na∣mely, the difference of the people against whom hee hath writen. The first were Separatists; and therefore no marvaile though against them hee pleaded for a free Congregation: for hee well knew that unlesse hee went this way to worke; hee should fall with dishonour in the controversie between them. The other are the oppressed and burthened members of the English Church in Amster∣dam. Now to keepe these under their burden and oppression, hee sees that hee must let goe his former hold; and on the contrary say, wee are not a free Congregation, but stand under another Ecclesia∣sticall authoritie out of our selves.

Thus a good wit will serve a disputant in good stead: for by it (if hee list) hee can as the Poëts fable of their Proteus, turne him∣self into all shapes. Like him, who having made an excellent speach in the commendation of justice, afterwards spake as wittily to the contrary: shewing that there was no justice at all in the world. Or like a Gentleman, of whom I haue heard, that in an Assembly of States, such as wee call Parliaments, was absolutely the best spea∣ker; yet nothing respected; and that for a most sufficient reason; which was this: They knew full well, hee could speake as well, and as moovingly to that which was quite contrary.

And I willingly professe, that M^r. Paget hath a rare faculty this way, to turne a thing, which way hee will; and make it say, either I or no, or both when hee pleaseth. Notwithstanding this I must tell him, the very thing which hee speakes off, touching M^r. Robinsons Booke, is now true, concerning his owne former writing: It is sicke of King Iehorams incurable desease, the guttes of it fall out day by day; Yea hee openlie pluckes out, some of bowells thereof, with his owne hands.

There are some other objections, of the like nature, which hee useth against us; partly to disgrace our persons; partly our cause; as that wee doe not agree among our selves, touching the due power of the Church: That the practise which wee stand for is Brow∣nisme, &c.

Answ. Such cavillations thea Heathens haue used sometimes against Christian Religion; so Papistsb against Protestants; and the like, theyc against Reformists. Now I will not stand to make any particular answer hereto, because the folly and vanity of it, is suffi∣ciently shewed by othersd; who haue had occasion hereto-fore to reply unto such idle objections.

This onely for conclusion, I desire, may be noted; that whereas hee seekes to disgrace Christs Gouvernment, and to haue his owne honoured and embraced; in this hee doth, as one said in Tully of Hortensis, when hee immoderately praysed eloquence, that hee would have lift her up to heaven, that hee himself might have gone up with her. So I perceive M^r. Paget would faine haue, the Classicall Discipline advanced, that hee by it, might haue worldly credit also.

Ioh. 13.17.

If ye know these things, blessed are ye if ye doe them.

Notes

• Preface.
• Preface.
• b

  De Rom. Pont. cont. 4. qu. 1. p. 16.
• c

  Sarav. de Tripli. Epis. in Prolog. Sand. de vi∣sibl. Monar. l. 5. c. 4. Sculting. Hier. Anarc. l. 10. c. 20. l. 11.119.137 &c.
• d

  Whitg. Tract. 3. c. 4 div. 4. & divis. 8. pag. 169. Loe compl. Chu. p. 164
• ‡

  Epist. 42. ad Proc.
• a

  Mat. 21.26. Act. 3.26.
• b

  Zezo. l. 7. c. 7.
• c

  Theod l. 2. cap. 7.
• Pag. 72.
• Pag. 105.
• d

  Epist. 63.
• e

  Bilson perp. gouver. c. 16. p. 387
• f

  Sutclif. Discipl. c. 8. p. 138.
• g

  Brancroft surv. c. 22. p. 353. Comp. Ch. p. 91. 93. 94.
• h

  Hooke. Ecc. Polit. Pref.
• i

  Cent. l. 2. c. 4. p. 391.
• k

  L. 3. c. 22. L. 5. c. 16. L. 3. c. 19.
• a

  L. 3. c. 1.2.3.
• b

  L. 4. c. 23.
• L. 3. c. 7.
• ‡

  Eccl. Pol. p. 329. 330
• a

  Ad Card. Peron. Obs. 4. p. 30. 31
• b

  De Rom. Pont. cont. 4 pag. 5.
• Hist. Pap. pag. 37. 38.
• ‡

  In Apoc. ch 2 p. 67.
• e

  De Lapsis. Epist. l. 4. c. 4.
• f

  Lib. 8. cap. 1.
• g

  In 1. Tim. 5.
• Maldon. upon Mat. 18.
• ‡

  In respons. ad Tract. de Ministr. Euang. de grad c. 22. fol. 154.155.
• Distinct. 16.
• ‡

  Pref.
• Pag. 83.
• a

  Duaran. Dist. 8.
• b

  D. White of the Church l. 3. p. 157.158
• c

  Sand. de visib. Mon. l. 5 c. 4.
• d

  Hieron. ad Engr.
• e

  D. Whita. cont. 4 pref. p. 3.
• Of the Church l. 2. pag. 49.
• ‡

  Bartol. Distinct. pag. 2.
• De Mode∣rat. in disceptat. Servand.
• Pag 72.153▪
• ‡

  Sibrand. Lubbert. de princ. Christ. l. 7. c. 10. p. 694.
• Tho Aqui in quod l. 9. Art. ult. Abb. Panor. de elect. c. significat.
• ‡

  Mat. 19.8.
• a

  Whitak. cont. 4. Qu. 5. c. 10. Sarav. de Tripl. Episc. in Prolog. Io. Ainsw. Large writing. 2.
• b

  D. Rain. Confer. p. 195.257.459. D. Bilson to the Semina. part. 4. pag. 360.300.301.299. D. More. Apol. p. 2. c. 14. Casaub. Epi. ad Per. Car. p. 32.33.
• Ar••ow against sep. pag. 116.
• ‡

  Note.
• Arrow pag. 59.
• a

  Celsus pag. 802. Lactant. l. 4. c. ult. Isod. Pelus. Epist. 90.
• b

  Bellar. de not. Eccl.
• c

  Brone. Serm. pag. 103.104. Casend. Answ. to Abstract. p. 210. &c. Whitg. p. 888. Loe comp. cha. p. 47. D. Bridg. l. p. 134.
• d

  Iew. Def. Apol. p. 3.8.2.1. Whitak. cont. 4. qu. 5. c. 8. Sutclift. de Eccl. p. 109. D. Mort. Apol▪ 1. l. 2.