Rhemes against Rome: or, The remoouing of the gagg of the new Gospell, and rightly placing it in the mouthes of the Romists, by the Rhemists in their English translation of the Scriptures. Which counter-gagg is heere fitted by the industrious hand of Richard Bernard ...

XVI. Proposition. Whether the Church of Rome be the Catholike Church:

Confuted by their owne Bible.

I. IT is so farre from making it the Catholike Church, as it no where doth giue it the name of a Church, as it doth Co∣rinth, chap. 1. Gal. chap. 1. Ephesus, Reu. 2. 1. Acts 20. 28. 1. Tim. 3. 15. and so other Churches. But no where is this title giuen to Rome. Note it well.

II. It telleth vs, that the Faith of Saints at Rome was renow∣ned in the whole World, Rom. 1. 8. but not that their Church was spred into all the World. Neither saith it, that the Faith so commended, came out from thence into the World; or that it was any other, then that which was then in all the World. For their Bible telleth vs, that not from Rome, but from Ierusalem, it came both to Rome, and into other places of the World. Ieru∣salem was the Mother and Head Church, and not Rome. And of those in Rome it saith, Among whom ye are called, Rom. 1. 6. so were they not the Vniuersall Church, but one particular a∣mong the rest, which together made vp the whole Church.

III. Their Bible telleth vs, that the Church at Ierusalem was planted by Christ, and by his twelue Apostles, with whom were the 70. Disciples: such Teachers as no other Church euer had at once. The Church of Antioch, Corinth, Ephesus, and o∣ther moe, were planted by the Apostles, as we learne from their owne Bible. But who first taught at Rome, it shewes vs not, not Peter, I am sure.

IIII. Their Bible doth at least equall other Churches with it, if not preferre them before it: 1. In giuing the name of Church to other, and not to it: for there is mention of Saints at Rome, but not of the Church at Rome: The title they had not giuen to them.

2. It plainely telleth vs, that other Churches were first plan∣ted by the Apostles, but mentioneth not the planting of it by any of them.

3. In highly praising of other Churches, as the Corinthians, for being enriched with all vtterance, and all knowledge, for comming behind in no gift, 1. Cor. 1. 5, 7. and for being parta∣kers of the sufferings of Christ, 2. Cor. 1. 7. So the Ephesians, which Church he calleth the Church of the liuing God, the Pil∣lar and ground of truth, 1. Tim. 3. 15. and the beleeuers there to be fellow-Citizens with the Saints, and of the houshold of God, built vpon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets, Iesus Christ himselfe being the chiefe Corner-stone, in whom they wer builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit, Eph. 2. 19, 20, 22. If our Romanists had any such testi∣mony, how would they boast? Great commendations are giuen to the Church at Colosse, Col. 1. 4, 6. for their stedfast faith, loue, and fruit of the Gospell, and for their order which the Apostle ioyed to behold, cha. 2. 5. What shal I speak of the praises of the Thessalonians for their worke of Faith growing exceedingly, their labour of loue, their patience of hope, their abounding in charitie, being followers of the Apostles, and the Churches of God in Iury, receiuing the Word of God, as the Word of God, in much tribulation, with ioy of the holy Ghost? To which prayses the beleeuers at Rome did not then attaine, though they had their prayses, and those great too, Rom. 15. 14. but not com∣parable with those Churches.

Lastly, in shewing how the Apostles honoured some other Churches by their writings. As Corinth, by two Epistles: so Ephesus, by one from Saint Paul, by another from Saint Iohn, Reuel. 2. 1. who wrote to that Church, in the first place, the hea∣uenly booke of the Reuelation: in like sort were two written to the Thessalonians, and but one to Rome.

5. It is cleare by their own Bible, that Peter (whō they claime falsely for their first Pope) wrote two Epistles, which are cal∣led Catholike: but neither of them was written to Rome, as the Catholike Church, neither maketh he any mention of it. And S. Paul writeth to the Saints at Rome, as to a particular compa∣ny, and not as any Head-Church, before, and aboue other. The Thessalonians are commended for being followers of the Chur∣ches of God in Iudea, but not for following those at Rome; to

whom, when Saint Paul wrote, hee saith, Rom. 1. 6. that they were called among others that in other Nations were called; but it is not said, aboue other Nations.

6. Their Bible telleth vs, that S. Paul wrote his Epistle to them that were in Rome called Saints, and beloued of God, so that they were within that City, or there-about: but the Ca∣tholike Church was then dispersed; for the Gospell at that time had gone into all the World, and was preached to euery creature vnder Heauen, Col. 1. 6, 23. In their Bible is mention made of thirtie Kingdomes and Countries, ten Ilands, and al∣most three score famous Cities out of Iury, in and amongst the Gentiles, where the Gospell had been preached, among whom Rome was but one, and had obteined at the most, praises com∣mon with other Churches. Their titles were Saints, Rom. 1. 7. beloued of God, also brethren, Rom. 10. 1. and 12. 1. and 15. 14, 30. Their faith, the same that was among all Nations, Rom. 1. 5. called the common Faith, vers. 12. and therefore spoken of throughout the whole World, vers. 8. Their obedience was published to euery place, Rom. 16. 19. Not for that their Faith and obedience did surpasse others: for the words are deliuered barely, your faith, your obedience: not with prayses, as the Faith and obedience of the Colossians, and Thessalonians, accompa∣nied with loue and aboundant charity, with patience, and ioy of the holy Ghost, in great afflictions, and so forth: but for that Rome was the sease of the Empire, and the publishing of their faith and obedience, might bee a meanes to draw on others which dwelt in other places.

Contraried by Antiquitie.

We may reade, that the chiefe of the Church of Rome, was but at first a Bishop, and his Church but a Drocesan Church. Then hee became an Archbishop, and so his Church but a Pro∣uinciall Church. After he got to be a Patriarch, and so his Church but Patriarchall, as some other were, then equall with him; as that of Antioch, Alexandria, Ierusalem, and Constanti∣nople. All this time he was no Vniuersall Bishop (till bloody

Phocas gaue him that title:) and so his Church not Vniuersall, till she also became the great whore, and so might well be com∣mon; the kings of the earth committing fornication with her, as was foretold, Reuel. 17.

It is said that Athanasius, as Liberius confesseth, was separa∣ted from the communion of the Church of Rome. But may we iudge so holy a man, and so valiant a Champion for the truth, to be therefore separated from the Catholicke Church? Poly∣crates, and the Easterne Churches, did not condiscend to the Church of Rome in the keeping of Easter; did they therefore dissent from the Catholicke Church? who was he in those dayes, that had so much as a dreame thereof?

S. Ierome in Catal. Fortunat. reproueth the custome of the Church of Rome, and Epist. ad Euagr. he preferreth the custome of the Catholicke Church: he held not Rome then the Catholicke Church, but distinguisheth them asunder, one from another. The title of Catholicke was long before it came to be added to the Church; and when it was vsed, many Churches were so called. The Romane Church then was not the Catho∣licke Church.

Gainesayd by some of their owne.

Aeneas Syluius, who was Pope, writeth; That before the Councell of Nice, small respect was had to the Church of Rome. Now, it cannot be imagined, that all the time before, the learned Fathers, and holy Martyrs should be said to haue had small respect to the Catholicke Church, the mother of euery particular Church, because they had small respect to the Church of Rome. If Aeneas Syluius saith true, then was not Rome held the Catholike Church, of those, who so smally respected her.

Pighius, lib. 6. ca. 3. de Eccl. Hierarch. saith, Who did euer yet by the Church of Rome vnderstand the Vniuersall Church? He then at that time had not learned this point, to hold the Church of Rome for the Catholicke Church.

Francisc. Picus, Theorem. 13. saith, The Church of Rome is a particular Church.

The obiected Scriptures answered.

Psal. 2. 8. Aske of me, and I will giue thee the heathen for thine inheritance, &c.

Luk. 1 33 He shall reigne ouer the house of Iacob for euer; and of his kingdome there shall be no end.

Answ. Who is read in Scripture, but knoweth these to be spoken of Christs Kingdome, and not of the Popes iurisdiction? Where is here Pope, or Rome expressed? But the Gagger pro∣ueth hereby the Church of Christ Catholicke: which we ac∣knowledge. But saith he, None of these promises haue beene so much verified, as they haue beene in the Church of Rome: and therefore is she onely the Catholicke Church. In that he saith, Not so much verified, as of Rome; he grants it to haue beene ve∣rified of other Churches, though not so much: he cannot there∣fore from a higher degree conclude, that she is onely the Church, whereof the promises are made. The words are spoken of Christs Kingdom in plain termes expressed. And is his King∣dome now become the Romish Iurisdiction onely? His King∣dome, after he assumed our nature, began before the Church of Rome had a being. And can any thinke that Dauid in the Psalme, or the Angell speaking the words to his Mother, in Luke, did dreame of a Pope-holy Father, and his Churches iu∣risdiction? Christs Kingdome was not, nor is not of this world, Ioh. 18. 36. but the Popes is: therefore he vndertakes to be chiefe Iudge, to diuide inheritances, and to dispose of king∣domes, which Christ refused to intermeddle in, Luk. 12. 14. Moreouer his Kingdome should extend to the vttermost parts of the earth; but so did neuer Romes Iurisdiction. Many Chri∣stian Churches neuer subiected themselues to her: many farre remote, know her not, nor her Pope; whether a man, or a wo∣man, Pope Ioane.

Lastly, The Romish Church cannot be Christs Kingdome, for that the Pope is Antichrist, whose character set forth in the Scripture, he seemeth so liuely to expresse, that his best a∣betters cannot free him of that title. For my part I haue laid

the dogge so neere his doore, that I hope hee and his Parasites cannot beat him away. See more in my poore labours vpon the Reuelation.

Coloss. 1. 5, 6. Yee heard before in the word of the truth of the Gospell, which is come vnto you, as it is in all the world, and brin∣geth forth fruit, &c.

But saith the Gagger, No faith or Gospell hath, or is so dila∣ted in all the world, nor hath fructified, as the faith of the Ro∣mane Church hath done.

Answ. 1. Where is in the Text, Rome, or the Romish Church?

Secondly, by saying, no faith or Gospell, hath or is so dila∣ted, speaking in the time past, and present; hee playeth the de∣ceitfull Merchant, by making two different things one. 1. For by the time past and most ancient, must bee meant the faith and Gospell in the Church, planted in other places as well as at Rome in the Apostles dayes, of which this place of the Colossi∣ans speaketh: and by the time present, is vnderstood the faith and profession of the now Romish Church, greatly differing from that which the Apostle commended then, as before is ma∣nifested out of the Epistle to the Romanes.

Thirdly, in that he saith, no faith (meaning this present faith, for which hee onely striueth) hath not been, nor is so dilated in all the world, fructified and growne, is not true. For first, the true faith, beginning at Ierusalem, went farther being preached to euery creature vnder Heauen, Col. 1. 6, 23. Secondly, this our present faith (the very same with that Ancient faith, as I haue proued) is dilated, fructified, and growne more then theirs. It is in both the East and West Indies; it is in more King∣domes in Europe, then the Pope hath full iurisdiction in, as in England, Scotland, with all the adiacent Ilands belonging to both Kingdomes, which bee many, in Ireland, in Denmarke, Norway, Sweden, Poland, Lapland, and in other Countreys vn∣der those Kings; in Pomeraine, in the Low. Countreys, in Duke∣domes, Princedomes, and in other places in Germany. Besides that, it is in France, and some other places of the Popes Iuris∣diction. So that for spaciousnesse, wee be little behinde Rome.

Hereto are to bee added the Russian, Greeke, and Abyssine Churches, as large as the European. In those the Papacie is ei∣ther vtterly vnknowne, or abhorred as vehemently as by vs. Thirdly, the faith and vnbeliefe of the Mahumetane Religion, is beyond the Romish present faith. Therefore as the Text hel∣peth him not, so his boasting is vaine, and false.

Rom. 1. 8. I thanke my God through Iesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

The Gagger hauing cited this place, saith, that Saint Paul in expresse termes, calleth the faith of the whole world, or Ca∣tholike faith, The faith of the Romanes, that is to say, of the Romane Church. Therefore it is onely the Catholike Church.

Answ. 1. Note here, that hee concludeth the Catholike∣nesse, from the faith of the Church: where therefore that is, which then was commended, must needs bee the Catholike Church, holding the Catholike faith as we doe.

Secondly, but what is this to the Romish Church now? For their present faith is not that which Paul commended then. This should they proue. Is this good reasoning; Such a mans word was of singular credit formerly, with euery man, Ergo, it is so still when hee is growne Bankerupt? Ierusalem was the ioy of the whole earth, ergo it is so still? Let this Gagger proue their faith now the same with that then, else this place will doe them no good, but rather vpbraideth their Apostasie.

3. In this application of the words, hee erreth grosly, or rather, if it be not his error through ignorance, then it is wick∣ed deceite, and so worse, in calling it the faith of the Church of Rome, as if originally it had flowed from thence, and gone out thence into the world; when Saint Paul mentioneth not any go∣ing forth of this Faith from thence, but that it was spoken of: which is to be vnderstood of their receiuing of it, as it was recei∣ued of other Nations, as is euident in Rom. 1. 5, 6. where Paul speakes of the Faith among all nations, among whom, saith he, they were called. So as those at Rome were partakers with o∣thers of the common faith preached in the world; and not o∣therwise beholden to Rome for their faith, as this Gagger would insinuate to his credulous Schollers.

This text therefore makes Rome no more the Catholicke Church, then Corinth, Philippi, Tessalonica, &c. which had receiued the same faith, though their receiuing of it was not perhaps so much spoken of, for the reasons afore al∣leadged.

Notes

• Rom 1. 5 12,
• 1. Thes. 1. 3, 6. & 2. 13, 14. & 3. 6. &. 4. 10. 2. Thes. 1. 3, 4. & 2. 13.
• Acts 2.
• Epist. ad Ʋrsac, & Valent. in Baron. Annal. to 3. Ann. 357. n••. 44.
• Epist. 30, 1.
• See also the Answer of B. Downame, vnto Leon. Lessius de Antichristo.
• See my Booke, Looke beyond Luther.