Rhemes against Rome: or, The remoouing of the gagg of the new Gospell, and rightly placing it in the mouthes of the Romists, by the Rhemists in their English translation of the Scriptures. Which counter-gagg is heere fitted by the industrious hand of Richard Bernard ...

Their assertion, that the Church hath beene euer to the world gloriously visible, is most false:

Confuted by their owne Bible.

1. By Propheticall speeches, foretelling that the Church shall lose her glorious conspicuousnesse to the world, 1. Chr. 15. 3. And many dayes shall passe in Israel without the true God, and without Priest and Teachers, and without the Law, Osea. 3. 4. Many dayes shall the children of Israel sit, without King, without Priest, without Sacrifice, without Altar, and without Ephod, and Teraphim. See also Mich. 3. 6, 7. and in Mat. 24. 24. Christ fore∣telleth that false Christs, and false prophets shall arise, and so

farre seduce, as to deceiue the verie elect, if it were possible; which could not be, if y^e true Church should be euer gloriously conspicuous. S. Paul, 2. Thess. 2. 3, 4. telleth vs of such a reuolt, as Antichrist shall be exalted and sit in the Temple of God. And S. Iohn in the Reuelation, Chap. 9. 2. telleth of such a darknesse, that should obscure the Sunne and Aire, of such an oppression of the Church, as she should be trodden vnder foote, Chap. 11. 2. of such a persecution, as she should be glad to fly into the wil∣dernesse, Chap. 12. 6. and lastly, of such a preuailing of the Beast that enemie, as the whole earth should adore, and follow after him, Chap. 13. 7, 8. Which Word of God must needs be true. And therefore the Church is not euer gloriously conspi∣cuous to the world, as an earthly Monarchy or estate.

2. By Historicall narration, 2. Chron. 15. 3. Heb. 11. 37, 38. Iudg. 6. 2. in the kingdom of Iudah, in Ahaz his dayes, in the dayes of Manasses his reuolt from God; for then was there no glorious conspicuitie of the Church any where. What a low ebbe was Gods Church come to in Israel in Eliah his dayes? About the time of Christs suffering, what glorious face of the true Church we•• there then? Christ was condemned: the Apostles were sted 〈◊〉〈◊〉 scattered: Peter forswore Christ. Was heere a glorious true Church in the eye of the world? We see then, the Church hath not euer beene in a pompous visibi∣litie.

Contraried by Antiquitie.

S. Augustine, Epist. 80. ad Hesych. towards the end, and Epist. 48. ad Vincent. saith, When the Sunne shall be darkened, and the Moone shall not giue her light, and the Starres shall fall from heauen, (as is prophesied, Reuel. 6. and 9. 1.) then the Church shall not appeare, for that then the vngodly perse∣cutors shall rage out of measure.

S. Chrysostome on Mat. Hom. 49. saith, that since the time that Heresies inuaded the Church, it can no wayes be knowne which is the true Church of Christ, but by the Scriptures one∣ly: in this confusion it can no otherwaies else be knowne. This

sheweth then that the true Church of God is not euer visibly glorious. And this is manifest, if we consider the estate thereof in the time of the Arian Emperours; the world almost being turned Arian, as S. Hierome complaineth.

Gainesaid by some of themselues.

Alex. Hales part. 3. q. vlt. num. 5. Art. 2. saith, that about the time of Christs passion, the true faith remained in none, but in the Virgin Marie.

So Durand. Rat. lib. 6. cap. 72. num. 25.

So Panormit de elect. & elect. potest. cap. sanctificasti.

So Turrecramat. de Consecrat. d. 2. semel Christus, Num. 4.

It was a poore visibilitie then, farre from glorious conspicu∣ousnesse.

Many Papists write of a miserable estate of the Church in the time of Antichrist: that the Masse shall be celebrated in few places, and verie priuately in caues and secret places, yea, perhaps the Pope shall then professe his faith in secret. See for these things, Pererius on Daniel, pag. 714. Ouandus in Breui∣loqu. in 4 sent. D. 18. prop. 3. pag. 602. Suarez. lib. 5. Contr. sect. Angli. cap. 21. Acosta de Temp. nouis. lib. 2. cap. 15. Rhem. on 2 Thess 2. 3. All these speake of the Churches almost vtter ex••••pation. See more testimonies, of Occam, Caietan, Maluen∣da, Barradius, and others in D. Whites Reply to Fisher, pag. 77.

This they do meane of their Romish Church-Seruice, Masse, and Religion; which I pray God to hasten, and make them true Prognosticators of their owne downefall and ruine, Amen, A∣men.

But that Romish Antichrist hath played his part against the true Church alreadie, as is foretold in 2. Thess. 2. Reu. 9. and 11. and 12. and 13. which these men cannot, or will not see, being made drunke with that whores cup of her fornication,

The Scriptures obiected answered.

Mat. 5. 14. Yet are the Light of the World, a Citie set on a hill cannot be hidden: Neither doe men light a Candle, and put it vnder a Bushell, but on a candlesticke, and it giueth light to all that are in the house.

Answ. This place doth not proue the Church visible or vn∣hidden at all times, and to all; the successiue perpetuall Church is not expressed nor intended: for Christ spake this to, and of his Disciples then. So Chrysostome taketh it: and yet euen they (when they fled from Christ) were hidden for a time. But here is a threefold similitude, by which our Aduersaries go about to proue the euer-glorious visibilitie of the Church.

1. From the word light; yee are the light of the World. What light is there in nature, which is alwaies seene? The very Sunnes light is not so in the same place: for it goeth downe at night, and in the day-time it is often beclouded, and at some times eclipsed, neither doe all see it, though it shine forth; for the blind man cannot; he that is a sleepe, or winketh, doth not; and they that are out of the Horizon cannot. So then, let the Church be the Sunnes light; yet shee therefore cannot bee proued to bee euer gloriously visible to all, euery where: when the estate of the Church shall bee, as is said in Reuel. 6. 12. the Sunne being blacke as Sackcloth: and in Chap. 9. 2. the Sunne and Aire darkened with the smoke comming out of the bottomlesse pit, then (saith Saint Augustine) the Church shall not appeare.

2. From a Citie set vpon an Hill, which cannot be hid: true, totally, and finally to all and euery one at all times; for so wee say, the Church cannot be hid: but such as truly seek•• vnto her, and in sinceritie desire to see her, shall come to the sight of her. But yet a Citie set on an hill, is euer hidden to those that want sight, to such as be farre off from it, to such as be neere to it, is it sometime hidden, when foggie mists arise and hinder the sight. This simily therefore proueth not a perpetuall visibilitie of the Church.

3. From the Candle on a candlesticke; but the candle often

burneth dimly, and needeth snuffers to snuffe it. Againe, it lightneth onely those that haue eyes to see; and haue their eyes open to see, else it doth not giue them light. Thirdly, it giueth light onely to them that are in the house, to wit, in the same roome, but not to other, in another roome, in the same house, if a wall bee betweene them. Wee see then, that these similies doe not expressely prooue a continuall cleare visibilitie of the Church.

Mat. 18. 17. Tell the Church: if he neglect to heare the Church, let him be to thee as a Heathen.

Answ. This place the Gagger alleageth before for to prooue, that the Church could not erre, and now that she is euer glori∣ously visible, yet here are no expresse words, nor direct intent of her visibility or hiding.

1. Christ here did speake of the Iewish Church then, which was not the Catholike, but a particular Church visible.

2. If applied to vs, it cannot bee meant of the Catholike Church, for that cannot bee seene with our eyes, but beleeued; neither if it could be seene, can she bee gathered into one place, to heare priuate causes, as is here meant.

3. This therefore being vnderstood of a particular Church, as it needes must, and that also of the onely Ecclesiasticall Go∣uerners therein; what is this to proue the visibility of the whole Church?

4. This telling of the Church, may be done by such as be of her, when she is in the wildernesse, seene to her owne, and not to the world, euen where onely two or three be gathered together in Christs Name, to heare such complaints, Vers. 19, 20.

2. Cor. 4. 3. If our Gospell bee hid, it is hid to them that are lost.

Answ. Here is no word of the Church; but the wise Gagger taketh the Gospell and the Church for one and the same. If so, then the place is flat against himselfe: for hee saith, that the Church cannot be hid; but Saint Paul saith, the Gospell may, to them that are lost, blinded by Satan, and doe not beleeue: and therefore the Church may bee hid, if it and the Gospell bee one.

Esay 2. 2. And it shall come to passe in the last dayes, that the Mountaine of the Lords House shall be established in the top of the Mountaines, and shall be exalted aboue all the Hilles, and all Na∣tions shall flow vnto it.

Answ. They expound this, and that of Mich. 4. 7. Dan. 7. 14. of Christs Kingdome; which they will haue to be sensibly and corporally visible, when it is altogether spirituall. This spiritu∣all Kingdome is not a visible Mountaine, which the Nations with their bodily eyes flow vnto; but with the eyes of their mind. But they obiect and say, that a Prophecie must bee of things which may bee seene and perceiued by our senses But who euer saw with his corporall sense any such thing as is here foretold? Who euer saw men beate their swords into plow∣shares, their speares into pruning-hookes? Vers. 4. Whose sense euer saw the Wolfe lodging with the Lambe, the Leopard with the Kid, the Calfe with the young Lion, the Cow with the Beare, and the Lion eating straw like an Oxe? &c. and yet these be Prophecies, Esay 11. 6, 7 see chap. 60. 20, 21. and many other places speaking of Christs Kingdome, and spirituall comforts thereof.

Esay 61. 9. And their seede shall bee knowne among the Gen∣tiles, &c.

Answ. Here is spoken of the Churches seede to bee seene among the Gentiles; but whether openly or secretly is not men∣tioned: but the very text saith, All that see them, shall acknow∣ledge them. Marke, all that see them. So first, here is no speech of the whole Church, but of her seed. Secondly, that they are to be knowne and seene: but this may be as well in secret as open∣ly. And thirdly, of all that see them. To some then they are not seene. Wee confesse, that all that by faith see the Church, to them is she spiritually visible. And this is all that this text afford∣eth.

Notes

• See more of this his opini∣on in Enarrat. in Psal. 10. de bapt. also con∣tra Donat. lib. 6. cap. 4.
• In Psal. 38.
• Epist. 80. ad H••∣sych & 48. ad Vincent.