A disputation of the Church wherein the old religion is maintained. V.M.C.F.E.

THE SIXT CHAPTER. What meant by a Catholique.

52. BEfore I goe on to your Obiections, be∣cause the place is verie fitte, and the thing necessarie to be obserued, and borne in minde, I will tell you what I meane by a Ca∣tholicke, which question is here answeared, without difficultie. You haue seene the Ca∣tholique Church, that is the congregation of Christians in communion at all tymes with the See of Rome, by a Catholique man, I meane one who beleeues the Creede of this Church, one of this comunion: ād euerie one which did here∣tofore embrace this communion was a Ca∣tholique, so long as he did embrace it, and died a Catholique if he died in it. In the commu∣nion with this Church, is included a Vnion with it: which vnion is founded in a confor∣mitie, or vniformitie of faith and iudgment in diuine matters. And this was in all those who did resolue their beleefe into the proposition or iudgment of this Church. For, he who submittes his iudgment whollie to the Church, and beleeues as she telles him readie

to beleeue more, if she declare her selfe more fullie, and to condemne all doctrine which she cōdemnes, is vndiuided from the Church in iudgment, and therefore vniforme.

53. Hence it comes also that not onelie those who liued at one tyme, were of our com∣munion, but such also as liued in diuers ages: because the following age did receaue the doctrine, and generall decrees of the precedēt, beleeuing all which was then by the Church beleeued, and condemning such o∣pinions as they condemned. By this meanes wee doe also communicate with them all as perfectlie in the disposition of our soule, and redines of our vnderstanding, as if wee had liued with them. Hēce it is, that wee admitte all the Councelles that were generallie re∣ceaued by the Church in their tyme; and are sufficientlie moued therunto by the iudgmēt of the Church, which then receaued them. For, wee resolue our iudgment into the iudgment of the Church, and that is our rule vnder God, who is the prime rule, and highest Ob∣iect of our faith.

You will be readie to make an other vse of some part of this discourse, but you cannot▪ for you make your owne choise of that which you beleeue, and doe not submitte your iudgment to the iudgment of Gods

Church. Wee acknowledge diuine assistance in Church-proposition as I haue said before, and this doth euery Catholique: which is the reason why wee are all of one religion, though wee liue at seuerall tymes. Out of this comes the Catholique Vnion, or vnitie which is most ample, reaching into all Na∣tions, and through all tymes: which kind of vnitie depending on the Churches mouth as on a subordinate cause and rule, but princi∣pallie on the all-teaching Spiritte directing to reuealed ve••ities as on an infinite and immoueable principle, (as hereafter I will shew) is peculiar to the Church of God. Aske any man of our religion, on whose iud∣gment he relies in matters of faith, and he will answeare that he relies on the iudgment of the Church; and if you aske further, on whom the whole Church of this age hath dependence for exterior proposition of matters of faith, I answeare that this whole age resolues it selfe into the precedent age, and that into the pre∣cedent, and so vpwardes to the first, which age did resolue it selfe into the Apostle pro∣position, and they resolued their faith into the proposition of our Sauiour, who came into the world to this purpose, and he Cour, Sauiour) being the naturall sonne of God, did cleerlie behould all truth with an infinite

vnderstanding. And there staies the resolu∣tion, hauing made a full compasse, and retur∣ned thether where this veritie first was. For, all truth is first in the diuine vnderstanding, and thence reuealed manie wayes, as it hath pleased that originall goodnes, the eternall Father: as by prophettes in ould tyme; and af∣ter by his Sonne Iesus Christ; who did instruct his Church, and bequeathed an euerlasting assi∣stance, to beare in minde, and to deliuer truelie this lesson to future ages. Hence it came, that this instruction or word, which he put into her mouth, hath not yet gotte out of it, nor will to the worldes end.

54, I had made a full point, and was going on to the next Chapter; but I remembred with whom I am now againe dealing, and that I am to repeate the same things ouer more then once, hauing for the same reason also contented my selfe with verie few things among infinite which might be said for our cause. My chiefe intention therefore in this second booke was, onelie to declare which companie of people in all the world, is the Church Catholique, or the Church answea∣ring to Gods eternall decree declared by the Prophets. And I haue prooued it to be that companie which is and hath bene euer in the cōmunion of the See of Rome. This cōpanie

of Beleeuers is the Church described in Gods word, and no other companie distinct from this whatsoeuer it be is the Church there des∣cribed. In the proofe of this I haue taken such groūds as are vndeniable; as, the knowne cō∣munion of Nations, the like being no where found; the Testimonie of worlds of people; the Confession of the most learned Aduersa∣ries that wee haue, or euer had since Luther came; The Euidence of generall Councelles, and the knowne Opposition of all confessed Heretiques in all tymes to this Church, and to no other. These grounds or arguments I take so farre only as they are manifestlie vn∣deniable, and no further: and to prooue that which your owne fellowes and your Masters doe yeeld vnto, ād though most vnwillinglie, haue confessed in their books. That is, I take them to declare that the Church in commu∣nion with the See of Rome is and hath bene euer the Church described by the Prophets, and that no other answearable to that des∣cription is any where els to be found. VVhen you answeare this Booke, I will haue no other thing answeared in this place but this. Keepe the question all a part and distinct, that such as reade our papers may knowe when one matter is ended or agreed vppon; and doe not thrust other things in

heere. If you graunt it, Saie so. If you doe not, speake directlie to this point, in this place, and of no other. I will not heare of erring, or not erring in funda∣mentalls or not fundamentalls. I haue no∣thing to doe with that, It shall haue a place a part: I looke onelie which is the Church answearing to the description, whether it be subiect to errour in any thing, or be not, whether it doth erre actuallie, or euer hath actuallie bene in errour. I meddle not here with that. The thing described in Prophecie, the substance of the thing, the Church I looke for, and haue found her by her proportion, by her face: it is not yours, it is ours.