An ansvver of a true Christian to the proude challenge of a counterset Catholike. By VVilliam Fulke Doctor in diuinitie

The fourth article conteyneth 3. demandes.

1 I demand, what Church hath mightely gonne through, borne downe, and fully vanquished, all heresies in times past, aswell against the blessed Trinitie, as other Articles of our religion?

I Aunswere, the true Catholike Church, hath alwayes re∣sisted all false opinions, contrary to the worde of God, as her duty was, and fought against them with the sworde of the spirite, which is the worde of God, and by the aide of God obteyned the victorie, and triumphed ouer them. So did Paule ouercome the Iewes Act. 18. So did the fathers of the primitiue Church, from time to time, confute heresies, by the scriptures, and declare in their writinges, that by them they are to be confuted, for examples sake of a great num∣ber, I will alleage a few. Hylarius, writing of the blessed Tri∣nitie against heretikes Lib. 4. sayeth: Cessent ita{que} propriae ho∣minum opiniones, ne{que} se vltrà Diuinam constitutionem, humana iudicia extendant: Sequamur ergo aduersus irreligiosas, & im∣pias de Deo institutiones, ipsas illas diuinorum dictorum authori∣tates, & vnumquod{que} eorum ipso de quo quaeritur auctore tracta∣bimus. Wherefore let opinions propre to men geue place, and let not mens iudgements stretche them selues further than God his constitution. Therefore against these vnreli∣gious and vngodly opinions of God, let vs follow the very authority of God his sayings, and handle euery one of them, by the aide of him, about whome the question is: Thus Hy∣larius, woulde haue heresies against the Trinitie, to be con∣futed, not by mens iudgement, but by God his word. Basilius magnus, very often testifieth, that he woulde haue all good thinges, proued by the scripture, and all euill thinges confu∣ted by the same, In his moralles Dist. 26. Euery worde or deede, must be confirmed by the testimonie of holy Scrip∣ture, for the perswasion of good men, and the confusion of wicked men: And in his treatise of Faith: we know, that we must now, and alwayes, auoide euery voice or opinion, that is differing from the doctrine of our Lorde. And in his short definitions to the first interrogation: whether it be lawefull or profitable for a man to permit vnto him selfe, to do or say any thinge, which he thinketh to be good, without the te∣stimonie of the holy Scripture? he aunswereth: forasmuch as our Sauiour Christ sayeth: that the holy Ghost shall not speake of him selfe, what madnes is it, that any man shoulde presume to beleue any thing, without the authoritie of God

his worde. By these, and many other places, it is manifest, that Basilius, woulde haue heresies and false opinions, con∣futed by the holy Scriptures.

Chrysostome, vpon Luke cap. 16. sayeth, that the ignorance of the scriptures, hath bred heresies, and brought in corrupt life, yea it hath turned all things vpsidown, by which it ap∣peareth, by what meanes he would haue heresies kept away, namely by knowledge of the scriptures. It were to long to reherse all the places of S. Augustine, by which his minde ap∣peareth, that he would haue the Church, sought onely in the scriptures, and heretikes confuted, onely by the scriptures, to whose onely authoritie in many places, he professeth that he him selfe will be bounde, as Epist. 19. ad Hieronymum. Epist. 48. Vincentio. Epist. 111. Fortunatiano. Epist. 112. to Paulina, con∣tra Faustum. lib. 11. cap. 5. Contra Cresconium Grammaticum, lib. 2. cap. 31. & 32. de Baptismo contra Donatistas lib. 2. cap. 2. De meritis & remissione peccatorum, contra Pelagianos lib. 3. cap. 7. De naturae & gratia cap. 61. De gratia Christi contra Pelagium cap. 43. De nuptijs & concupiscentia lib. 2. c. 29. In these places, S. Augustine preferreth the authority of the Canonicall scrip∣ture, before all writinges of Catholike Doctors, of Byshops, of Councells, before all customes, and traditions. But that he would haue the true Church sought onely in the scriptures, it is manifest, by these places, first in his 48. Epistle to Vin∣centius. Nos autem ideo certisumus, neminem se a communione omnium gentium iustè separare potuisse, quia non quisquam no∣strum in iustitiae sua, sed in scripturis Diuinis quaerit Ecclesiam. speaking of the Donatistes, he sayeth. We are suer, that no man could iustly separate him selfe from the communion of all Nations, because none of vs seeketh the Church in his owne righteousnesse, but in the holy Scriptures. So if the Papistes woulde not presume of their owne righteousnesse, but seeke the Church of Christ in the scriptures, they would not separate them selues from the communion of Christes Church, now by God his grace inlarged farther than the Popish church. Also in his booke De vnitate Ecclesiae. cap. 2. he hath these wordes. Inter nos autem & Donatistas quaestio est, vbi sit Ecclesia. Quid ergo facturi sumus? in verbis nostris

eam quaesituri, an in verbis capitis sui Domini nostri Iesu Christis puto quod in illius potius verbis eam quaerere debemus, qui ve∣ritas est, & optimè nouit corpus suum. The question is betwene vs, and the Donatistes, where the Church shoulde be, what shall we doe then? shall we seeke her in our owne wordes, or in the wordes of her heade our Lorde Iesus Christ? I thinke we ought rather to seeke her in his words which is y^e Truth, and best knoweth his owne body. So the question is at this daye, betwen the Papistes and vs, where the church is, let vs seeke in God his worde, there we shall easily finde her. To the same intent, he speaketh in the third, fiueth, and six∣tenth Chapters of the same treatise. Furthermore, that he woulde haue heretikes confuted onely by the scriptures, he sheweth likewise in many places of his workes: for wri∣ting against Maximinus the Arian, lib. 3. cap. 14. a place com∣monly and often cited, he sayeth: but nowe, neither must I preiudicially bring forthe the Councell of Nice, nor then the Councell of Arimine, for neither am I bounden to the authoritie of the one, nor you of y^e other, but let matter with matter, cause with cause, reason with reason, contend by au∣thoritie of the scriptures, not proper to any, but indifferent witnesses to both partes. If Augustine would not oppresse the Arrians, by the authoritie of the Nicene Councell, which was the first, and the best generall Councell, that euer was, but only by the scriptures, how much lesse woulde he charge them with other authorities, that the Papistes alleage, beside the authoritie of holy scriptures. And in his booke De Vni∣tate Ecclesiae against the Donatistes the 16 chapter: Sed vtrū ipsi Ecclesiam teneant, non nisi diuinarum scripturarum Canonicis libris ostendant, quia nec nos &c. But whether they holde the church or no: let them shew none other wise, but by the ca∣nonicall bookes of holy Scripture, for we our selues doe not say, that men ought to beleue vs, that we are in the Church, because we holde that Church which Optatus of Mileuitum, or Ambrose of Millayn, or innumerable other Byshops of our communion, haue commended to vs, or because it is set forth by the Councels of our felowe byshops, or because so many myracles of hearing requests, or healinges, are don in

the holy places, which our fellowship doth frequent in the whole worlde, so that the bodies of Martyrs, which were hidden so many yeares (which thinge if they will aske they may heare of many) were reuealed vnto Ambrose, and that at the same bodies, one that had bene many yeares blinde, very well knowen in the citie of Millayn, receyued his eyes, and eye sight, either because this man dreamed, or that man was rauished in the spirite, and hearde a voice, that he should not ioyne himselfe to Donatus, or that he shoulde departe from the faction of Donatus: for when soeuer such thinges are don in the Catholike Church, they are to be allowed, because they are don in the Catholike church. but the church it selfe is not therfore proued to be Catholike, because these thinges are done in it. By this Augustine declareth first that heretikes must be confuted, onely by the scriptures, and se∣condly that neither Councells, succession of byshops, vni∣uersality, miracles, visions, dreames, nor reuelations, are the notes to trie the Catholike church, but onely the scriptures. Moreouer in his booke De Pastoribus cap. 14. Quaerit infirmus Ecclesiam &c. A weake person seeketh the Church, he wan∣dreth and seeketh the church, what sayest you? The church is of Donatus side. Enquire for the shepheards voice, Reade me this out of some Prophet, reade me this out of some Psalme, rehearse me it out of the lawe, rehearse it out of the Gospell, rehearse it out of the Apostle, out of them do I re∣hearse the Church dispersed ouer all the worlde. And a litle after: Tu accusas non Euangelium &c. Thou accusest, not the Gospell, thou accusest not the Prophet, not the Apostle of whome this voyce speaketh to me I beleue him other I be∣leue not. But thou wilt bring forth decrees, I will also bring forth decrees, shoulde I beleue thine? beleue thou mine like∣wise. I beleue not thine, neither do thou beleue mine, then let mens writings be layd away and let Gods worde sounde be∣twen vs: bring me one place of scripture for Donatus side &c. These places maye sufficiently declare by what meanes this doctor thought the Church shoulde ouerthrowe heresies, namely by the worde of God onely, which thing also Leo, the first byshop of Rome, in his Epist. 10. ad Fabianum contra

Eutychen plainely confesseth saying: Sed in hanc insipientiam cadunt, qui cum ad cognoscendam veritatem &c. But those men fal into this foly, which when they are hindred by any doubt to knowe the trueth, haue not recourse to the voyces of the Prophets, not to the writings of the Apostles, not to the au∣thoritie of the Gospell, but to them selues. And therefore they become, maisters of error, because they haue not bene schollers of trueth. Of the same iudgement was the whole Councell of Constantinople the sixt, as appeare Actione 18. Si igitur omnes simpliciter &c. Therefore if all men from the beginning woulde haue simply and without subtiltie taken vpon them the preaching of the Gospell, and haue bene con∣tent with the constitutions of the Apostles, suerly matters shoulde haue bene well, and in good case, neither shoulde painefull contention, haue bene exercised against the au∣thors of heresies, nor against the fauorers of priests. Here the Councell confesseth, that the heretikes and schismatikes grow so fast, because they were not beaten downe, by prea∣ching of the Gospell and authority of the scriptures. Thus I haue declared by example, and authority of these Fathers, that the true Church of Christ, hath conuicted all heretikes, onely by the scripture.

2 And what Church it was, that hath alwayes stande still, and stedfast, whilest all other Congregations, as well of Ar∣rians, as Anabaptistes, Aerians, Nouatians, Vigilan∣tians, Iouinians, and the rest haue decaied.

THe true Church of Christ, hath alwayes stoode sted∣fast, and vnseparable, from Christ her heade, when all heretikes haue bene, and shal be confounded. But the true Church hath not alwaies florished in word∣ly peace and tranquilitie: for vntill the tyme of Constantine the great, which was Anno Dom. 339. the Church had small rest from cruell persecution in most places: and soone after a∣gaine vnder the Emperors Constantius, Constans, and Valons, it was greatly infected with the heresie of Arius, what time also Tiberius Bishop of Rome, was infected with the same heresie.

After that when Iulianus the Apostata, was Emperor, the tem∣ples of Idolls were opened, and gentilitie againe restored, so that the Church suffered great detriment. To be short, when the barbarous Goathes, Vandales, Alanes, and other Idola∣trous or heretical nations destroyed the Empire, the Church of God suffered a great Ecclipse. But when Mahomet, in the East, & Antichrist the Pope, in the West, seduced the world with most detestable heresie, then was fulfilled that which was reuealed to S. Iohn in the 12. of the Apocalyps, the woman clothed with the Sonne, which you your self confesse to be the Church, was so persecuted by the Dragon, that she fled into the wildernes, there to remaine a long season. Where she hath not decayed, but ben always preserued, vntil God should reueale Antichrist, and bring her againe into open light, which (his holy name be praysed) is now brought to passe in our dayes, to our inestimable comfort, and his euerlasting glory.

3 And if it can be proued that either the Protestants Church or any other Church but ours, hath mightely ouerthrowne these foresayd sectes, and other of all sortes, I recant.

IT hath bene already proued sufficiently, that the true Catholike Church which is ledde onely, by the worde of God, as a most infallible rule, hath ouerthrowne heresies of all sortes. But the popish church which refuseth the on∣ly weapon, by which heresies are cut downe, to be sufficient for that purpose, neuer was nor shall be strong enough to en∣counter with heretikes, therefore she practiseth to vanquish those whom she counteth for heretikes, not by authoritie of the Scriptures, but by fire and sworde, and cruell warre, as appeareth by her dealing with the Waldenses, Albigenses, Bohemians, and in our dayes with the true Christians. But where her power of fire and sword could not preuayle, there hath she not ouerthrowne such as she condemneth for he∣retikes, namely the Grecians church, & all other churches of Asia, and Aphrica, which vnto this day will not acknow∣ledge her doctrine to be Catholike, nor her authoritie to be lawefull. Wherefore seeing the Popish church neither

hath confuted those that are heretikes in deed, nor subdued those whom she counteth to be heretikes, if you be as good as your worde, you recant.