A full reply to certaine briefe observations and anti-queries on Master Prynnes twelve questions about church-government: vvherein the frivolousnesse, falsenesse, and grosse mistakes of this anonymous answerer (ashamed of his name) and his weak grounds for independency, and separation, are modestly discovered, refelled. / By William Prynne of Lincolnes Inne, Esquire.

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A full reply to certaine briefe observations and anti-queries on Master Prynnes twelve questions about church-government: vvherein the frivolousnesse, falsenesse, and grosse mistakes of this anonymous answerer (ashamed of his name) and his weak grounds for independency, and separation, are modestly discovered, refelled. / By William Prynne of Lincolnes Inne, Esquire.
Author
Prynne, William, 1600-1669.
Publication
London, :: Printed by F.L. for Michael Sparke Senior, and are to be sold at the Blew-Bible in Green-Arbour.,
1644.
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Subject terms
Goodwin, John, 1594?-1665. -- Certain briefe observations.
Prynne, William, 1600-1669. -- Twelve considerable serious questions touching church government.
Congregationalism -- Early works to 1800.
Cite this Item
"A full reply to certaine briefe observations and anti-queries on Master Prynnes twelve questions about church-government: vvherein the frivolousnesse, falsenesse, and grosse mistakes of this anonymous answerer (ashamed of his name) and his weak grounds for independency, and separation, are modestly discovered, refelled. / By William Prynne of Lincolnes Inne, Esquire." In the digital collection Early English Books Online. https://name.umdl.umich.edu/A91190.0001.001. University of Michigan Library Digital Collections. Accessed May 2, 2024.

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Certaine briefe Animadversions on Mr John Goodwins Theomachia, in Iusti∣fication of some passages in My Independency, Examined, Unmasked &c. and of the Parliaments Ecclesiasticall power.

IT is not my intention to repeate or refute all the unseasonable of∣fensive passages in the Epistle or Body of this Treatise, which ••••cit∣ly

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reflect upon the present Religious Parliament and Assembly, raising need∣lesse feates and jealousies of them both (in matters of RELIGION and Church-Government) as if they really intended to increase our misery and bondage, by rejecting and oppressing truth; to conjure all mens gifts, parts indu∣strie into a Synodicall Circle; and that there is almost as little hope of gathering grapes from thornes, or figges of Thistles, as of having the joy of our faith holpen, or encreased, or any decrease, but rather increase of evills by them; the resolutions of Councells, and Synods themselves upon the matter and just account, being but the fruits, or puttings forth of the learning and judgment of a very few men, not alwayes of the most consciencious &c. I shall only select some few particulars worthy con∣sideration; to fill up my vacant Pages.

First, it may be justly questioned, whether the maine doctrine prosecuted in it b

That it is the greatest imprudence under Heaven, for any man or ranke of men whatsoever to appeare, or so much as to list up an hand, or thought, against any way, doctrine or practise whatsoever clayming origination or descent from God, till we have securitie upon securitie, evidence upon evidence, yea all the securitie that men in an ordinary way are capable of, and foundations as cleare as the noone day, that such wayes, Doctrines and practises, only pretend unto God as the Author of them and that in truth they are not at all from him, but either from men, or from baser Parentage; that they are but counterseits and pretenders only, and stand in no relation at all, but that of emnitie and oppositi∣on unto God; and that we are not to act the value of one haire of our head a∣gainst them, untill we see their condemnation written with a beame of the Sunne by the finger of God Himselfe; untill he hath disclaimed or renounced it from Heaven, either by giving such wisedome unto men, whereby to detest the vanitie of it, or else hath quite rased it out of the flesh and Tables of the hearts of his servants, &c.
Be Orthodox or tolerable? For these ensuing reasons.

[ 1] 1. First, because it opens a wide gate to the reviving of all old, the spreading and propagating of all new Heresies, Errors, Schismes, Sects, and opinions whatsoever, without the least timely opposition or prevention, to the endangering of infi∣nite soules, and disturbance of the Churches, Kingdoms peace. For there is no Hereticke, Schismaticke, or Sectary whatsoever (though never so pernicious, grosse or detestable) but pretends his way, doctrine, practise, opinions to be the way and truth of Christ, clayming their origination and descent from God, yea, producing perver∣ting the Scripture it selfe to justifie them, as the Devill cited and wrested Scrip∣ture to tempr Christ: yea, our Saviour and the Scripture informe us, that ma∣ny false Teachers shall arise, and doe great Miracles, Signes and Wonders, inso∣much that they shall deceive many, yea the greatest part of the World, and if it were possible the very Elect; * That Satan and his Ministers also transforme themselves into Angels of Light: That false Teachers usually come to seduce men in sheeps clothing, with all deceiveablenes and crafiines, whereby they lye in waite to deceive; and advise us frequently to beware of such, and not admit them into our houses, &c. And must we therefore not speedly oppose, resist, avoyd, suppresse them or any of them now, because they thus pretend they are of and from God Himselfe; but stay till we see their condemnation written with a beam of the sun by the finger of God him∣selfe, and till he hath disclaimed, renounced them from Heaven, by some visible judg∣ment or destruction? If Arrianisme, Pelagianisme, Socinianism, Anahaptisme, or

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any anciently exploded Heresies, or Schismes should revive and sprout up among us (as some have lately done) should wee use such indulgence as this towards them, because they pretend their origination and descent from heaven; and their opinions not disputable only, but warranted by the Scripture? Alas what confusion, what inundation of heresies, schismes, and monstrous opinions would this presently introduce into our Church to its destruction, ruine, if such a Paradox were once admitted?

[ 2] Secondly, Because it is contrary to these expresse precepts and presidents both of the Old and New Testament, which you may peruse at leasure, Deut. 13. 1. to 18. Levit. 19. 17. Joshua. 22. 9. to 24. Psalme. 119. 104. 128. 2 Kings. 22. 8. to 27. Ier. 4. 30. 31. (a pregnant place) c. 14. 14. to 18. cap. 23. 13. to 23. cap 27. 15. to 19. c. 29. 8, 9. Ezra. 13. throughout Matthew 7. 15. cap. 24. 11. 23. 24. 25. 26. Mark, 13. 5, 6. 22, 23, 24. Acts 13. 6. to 14. cap 15. 1. to 33. cap. 17. 11. Rom. 16. 17. 18. 2 Cor. 11. 13. 14, 15. Galath. 1. 6. 7. 8, 9. 10. c. 2. 4. to 18. (a noted place) c. 3. 1, 2. 3. Ephes. 4. 14, 15. Phil. 3. 1. 2. 3. Coloss. 2. 8. 18. to the end 1 Thes. 5. 21. 2 Thes. 2. 1. to 16. c. 3. 6. 7. 1 Tim. 4. 1. to 7. chap. 1. 20. chap. 5. 20. 21, 22. 2 Tim. 2. 16. 17, 18. 23, 24, 25, 26. c. 4. 1. to 6. Titus. 1. 9. to 15. chapter 3. 9. 10, 11. 2 Pet. 2. 1. 2, 3. c. 3. 17. 18. 1 Ioh. 4. 2. 3. 2 John 10. 11. Jude 3. 4. &c. Revel. 2. 14. 15. 20. 21. compated together.f Paul would not give way to false Apostles NO NOT FOR AN HOURE, that the truth of the Gospell might con∣tinue among the Galatians, and resisted Peter to his face, at soone as ever hee wal∣ked disorderly, and gave the least countenance to false Teachers, though a chiefe Apostle; and did not demur upon the matter; yea the Churches of Porgamus, and Thyatyra, are sharply blamed for suffering some among them to hold the doctrine of Balaans, and the Nicolaitans; and to suffer Jesabell the Prophetesse to teach and seduce: And shall we permit them, now, without restraint?

[ 3] Thirdly, Because it is contrary to these received unquestionable Maximes of Divinitie, Policie, and Morality. Principijs obstare: Venienti occurrere morbo, to withstand the very beginnings of Errors, Heresies, Mischiefes; Schismes: to crush these Cockatrices in the shell; rather to keep then cast them out, Turpius ejici∣tur quàm non admittitur hostis. All wise men hold preventing Physicke best for their bodies, states, and why not for their souls and Churches? since, Sero medicina paratur, cum mala per longas invaluére moras.

[ 4] Fourthly, Because contrary to theh Policy practise of most Godly Magistrates, Princes Ministers, Churches in all Ages, Nations, which never indulged such li∣berty to opinions, new wayes, practises, especially to new Church-governments, Schismes, and Conventicles, (which he here pleads for) set up only by private spirits in opposition to the publick established Church-regelment. Indeed in some matters mearly of opinion which are not dangerous or schismaticall, some latitude may and must be left to men; but matters of Government are such tender things, as diffe∣rences & varieties therin cannot be tollerated in one and the selfe same Church and State without infinite inconveniencies and disturbances, especially where every Church shall be Independent, subject to no other Canons, rules, but its own peculiar arbitrary Dictates.

[ 2] 2 It may be questioned, whether the Independent way he there so earnestly pleads for, be the way of Christ, or not? since he neither discovers to us what it is, nor pro∣duceth any one text to prove it Christs own way, nor one example to warrant it in any age: but gives us good grounds to suspect it none of his without much scrutiny.

Page 20

1 For first, he comeneth,i that this way is every where spoken against, even by some that would be thought prime men and pillars in the temple of God; and insi∣nuates; that the Parliament, Assembly and generality of thek Ministers and people of the Realm, are bent against it; Therefore being a new way, never yet heard off in the world in any age, or Church of Christ, and thus generally opposed by our whole Church and State even in these times of Reformation; we mayl justly suspect it is no way of Christ, till we see its approbation written in a beam of the Sun with the finger of God himself, and till he hath justified and owned it as his, from heaven.

2 He tacitly acknowledgeth it am Government set up by a few private men, not only without but against the authority & commands of the Parliament and supream temporall Magistrates: yea, which not only denyes but oppugnes the temporall Magistrates, Parlia∣ments, Synods directions or coercive power in Ecclesiasticall affairs; directly con∣trary to the Scriptures, as I have largely proved by many Texts, in myo Inde∣pendency examined. Only I shall adde, that not only the Kings and temporall Magi∣strates of the Israelites; but even heathenp Kings and Princes (as Cyrus, Artaxerxes, Darius, Nebuchadnezzars the King & Nobles of Nineve &c.) enacted good and wholsom Laws, for the worship, honor and service of the true God, and to further his people in the building of his temple; who thereupon were enjoyned to * pray for their prosperity, as the marginall Scriptures evidence. Yea,r Paul himselfe even in matters of Religion pleaded his cause before Festus, Felix, King Agrippa, and at last appealed unto Cae∣sar an heathen Emperor, herein; yea he enjoyns all Christianss to pray even for heathen Kings, Magistrates, and to submit to all their lawfull commands for conscience sake, to whose judicature and tribunals,t Christ himself and his Apostles willingly submitted themselves upon all occasions when brought before them, without demurring to their ju∣risdictions. Therefore Christian Princes & Magistrates, who were long since predicted to become nursing Fathers to the Church under the Gospel, have much more power and jurisdiction in Church-government and affairs within their own Dominions.

3 For that it appears to be away that will breed infinite confusions, disorders, by confoundingv the bounds of parishes renting Congregations, families, and most rela∣tions assunder; & giving way to every sect to chuse Ministers, erect Churches of their own. without controle, in point of position (though their practise be quite contrary where they have power, they admitting no other kind of government but Independency in New-England, and excommunicating or banishing those who will not submit unto it:) a government inconsistent with Royalty, and the civill government; and so none of Christs who never erected any Church-gouernment to clash with or controle the civill.

4 Whereas he pretends, thatx persons of one family or parish may be members of se∣verall Churches without any inconvenience schisme, or distraction; as well as members of severall companies and trades; and therefore Ind-pendency is no occasion of divisions.

I answer 1, Thaty two cannot walke peaceably and-lovingly together unlesse they are agreed, especially in matters of Religion; and those who in point of conscience cannot communicate or agree together in one Church, will never questionlesse ac∣cord well together in one family, bed, parish, kingdom, as experience manifests.

2 There is a great difference between severall trades and Halls in one City parish, kingdome and severall formes of Church-government, in these particulars which oc∣casion unity in the one but schismes in the others 1. All trades societies hold one another lawfull, usefull, necessary, agreeable to the lawes of God and the Realme

Page 21

without dispute; & so they breed no contrariety of opinions or disaffection: but each different Church deems the other unlawful, & in no way of Christ so as they cannot with safe conscience joyn or communicate together; and thereupon they fever one from another. 2. Every several trade and society, even in their very trade is subject to the general Government, Laws of the City & Realm wherin they are to which they appeale and have recourse upon all occasions of difference, none craving an exemption or Independency from the whole Corporation, Parliament or supream Magistrate in matters which concern their government, but deriving their Corpo∣rations Charters, Laws and priviledges from them: which subordination keep: them all in peace and unity. But Independent Churches deny any subordination, subjection to the Ecclesiasticall Lawes and Edicts of Parlements, of tempo∣rall Magistrates or Synods, and will be regulated, obliged onely by their own peculiar Edicts: which must needs occasion infinite Schismes and disorders: therefore the cases are far different from one the other.

Thirdly, Christians, as Christians, are all of one and the self-same society and pro∣fession, as those of one Trade or Calling are; therefore they should have all but one common Church and government, as these Trades have: To set then the com∣parison upright, we must state it thus; If some of one Fraternity in London (suppose the Merchant-taylers, Sadlers, Mercers, or the like) should fall out among them∣selves, and one would have one forme of government, another another, and thereupon divide themselves into severall conventicles and petty meetings in corners, not at their common hall, and one chuse one Government, Master, or Warden, another another, and so sever the company, and continue indepen∣dent; this (no doubt) would prove an apparent schisme, and seminary of infinite divisions, to the distraction, destruction of the whole Company and Fraternity. This is the true state of your Independency; yea Mr Goodwins present case in his own Parish, miserably divided, disordered by his Independent way: which hath indu∣ced him to refuse to administer the Lords Supper, (yea Baptisme to some chil∣dren of Parishioners) for a yeares space or more, though they offer to be exa∣mined by him; esteeming them none of his Flocke, (preaching but seldome to them, though he receive their tithes:) and instead thereof to gather an Indepen∣dent congregation to himselfe out of divers Parishes and his owne, to whom hee prescribes a Covenant ere they be admitted members of it; preaching, praying, administring the Sacrament to them alone in private conventicles, neglecting his Parishioners: which hath engendred such discontents and rents in his Parish, even among the well-affected and truely religious, that he must either desert it or his Independent way. What schismes and discords this New war hath raised in other Parishes, is so well knowne to the World, that I need no other evidence to prove it a schismaticall By-path, and so no way of Christ the Prince of peace, who prescribes nought else but precepts of peace and unity to his Churches, and is most offended with their schismes.

Finallie, I cannot thinke this way a way of Christ because I finde it a Pio∣ner and underminer of Parliamentary authority, devesting Parliaments of all manner of jurisdiction in matters of Religion and Church-government; wit∣nesse the passage of the Two independent Brethren recited in my Independency examined p. 3. (which certainly weares a Maske as yet, since she never appeared bare-faced to the world, not one of her Parrons hitherto presenting us with her

Page 22

in her native colours, or lineaments) whose guilt this Author by his explanati∣on, to make it good, rather aggravates then extenuates. He writes,

That the Brethren in the mentioned period and expressions, reflected onely upon the generalitie of the Land, who according to the Lawes, yea according to the principles of all reason and equitie have the right of nominating persons unto Parliamentarie trust and power, but HAVE NO AVTHORITY OR POWER FROM CHRIST TO NOMINATE OR APPOINT WHO SHALL BE THE MEN THAT SHALL ORDER THE AFFAIRES OF CHRISTS KINGDOME, OR INSTITVTE THE GOVERNMENT OF HIS CHVRCHES: These are that secular root, out of which the Bre∣thren conceive AN IMPOSSIBILITY that a spirituall extraction should be made; that is THAT A LEGITIMATE ECCLESIASTICK POWER SHOVLD ACCORDING TO THE MIND OF CHRIST, OR ANY PRECEPT OR PRESIDENT OF SCRIPTVRE, BEE BY THEM CONFERRED VPON ANY MAN. And this IMPOSSIBILITY con∣ceived by them they onelie illustrate and declare by that parallel expression in Job Who can bring a cleane thing out of an uncleane? &c. But to hold, that the persons so elected as hath been said, have a power by vertue of such nomina∣tion or election to enact Lawes and Statutes in matters of Religion, and to order under mulcts and penalties how men shall worship and serve God, as it is a meanes to awaken the eye of jealousie upon them, and so is seven times more destructive unto, and undermining not onlie of their power, but of their honour, peace, and safetie also, then any thing that is found in the way so ill intreated; so it is a setling of a power upon the electors of such per∣sons, I meane the promiscuous multitude of the Land, yea of a grea∣ter power then ever Iesus Christ himselfe had, at least then ever he exer∣cised; For as dare Regem, argues a greater power then esse Regem; as hee that buildeth an house hath more honour then the house, Hebr. 3. 3. so to no∣minate and appoint who shall have power to umpire in matters of conscience and of God, to determine what shall be preached, and what not; what shall be beleeved, and what not, is a branch of a greater root of power, then the ex∣ercise of the power that is committed to others in this behalfe. Now though Iesus Christ had a power, and was authorized by God to be a Law-giver him∣selfe unto his Churches and Saints in their spirituall Republike, yet it is hard to prove, that he ever he invested any other with such a power: His Apostles themselves were no Lords over the faith of the Saints, nor had they anie power or authoritie to impose any thing upon men, as necessarie either to be beleeved or practised, but what they had in expresse commission and charge from Jesus Christ himselfe to impose upon such termes, &c.

The summe of this large passage is, that there is not onelie an improbabilitie, but absolute impossibilitie that the Parliament should have any power at all to enact Lawes and Statutes in matters of Religion, church-government, Gods worship or service, because the people who elect them have no such power, and so an impossibilitie of deriving any such authoritie to them; and to affirme the contrarie, is not onely to awake the eyes of jealousie upon them, but exceedingly destructive to, and undermining of not onely their power; but honour, peace, and safetie also. Whether this be not directly to undermine

Page 23

the authority of Parliaments and temporal Magistrates in all church-affairs and matters of Religion, contrarie to your late Covenant and Protestation, and that in the most transcendent maner that ever any have hitherto attempted in print, let all wise men judg: I am sory such ill passages should fall from so good a pen.

But to give a short Answer to this extravagant discourse: First, this objection might be made against the generall Assemblies, Parliaments, Kings of the Israe∣lites, whoa were chosen by the people, yet they made Lawes and Statutes concer∣ning Religion, and Gods worship, with his approbation, without any such ex∣ception, as I have elsewhere proved. Secondly, God himself (as I formerly tou∣ched) used the ministry, assistance of Cyrus, Artaxerxes, Darius, with other heathen Princes and Magistrates, for the building of his Temple, and advancement of his worship, for which they made Decrees, Statutes; notwithstanding this objected rea∣son reflects more upon them and their electors, then on such who are Christians by externall profession. Thirdly, most Christian Kings and Magistrates in the World, (even those who claime to be hereditary, as the yet continued formes of their Coronations and instalments manifest) come in by the peoples election, as well as such members of Parliament who are eligible, yet you cannot without disloialty and absurdity, deny them authoritie in matters of Religion and Church∣government. Fourthly, your selfe doe not onely grant, but argue,b That eve∣ry private man hath, yea ought to have power to elect and constitute his own Minister: and no doubt you will grant, that private men have power likewise to set up inde∣pendent Congregations, which have authority to prescribe such Covenants, Lawes, and Rules of Government, Discipline, Worship, as themselves think most agreeable to the Word: If then they may derive such an Ecclesiasticall authority to independent Ministers and Churches, why not as well to Parliaments and Synods likewise by the self same reason? Fifthly, it is cleare by sundry instan∣ces in Scripture, and your owne Text, that God doth oft times make use of unsanctified persons, and the rude multitude, (whom you so much under-va∣lue) to advance his glory, propagate his Gospel, promote his Worship, vindicate his Truth, and edifie his Church: He can poure a spirit of prophesie uponc a Baalam, a Saul, a Gamaliel, a persecuting High-Priest; he can make ad Judas an Apostle, yea send him to preach and build his Church, as well as a Peter: Wee read in the Evangelists, that none were so forward as the vulgare multitude to beleeve, follow, professe Christ, and embrace the Gospel, though many of them did it out of sinister ends. Therefore they may well have power to chuse such persons who shall and may make Lawes to promote the Gospel, and Government of the Church of Christ. Sixthly, those who have no skill at all in Law, Physick, or Ar∣chitecture, have yet judgment and reason enough to make choice of the best Lawyers, Physitians, Architects, when they need their help. Those who are unfit, or unable to be members of Parliament themselves, (as most of the electors are) have yet had wisdom enough in all ages, and especially at this present, to elect the most eminent & ablest men for such a service: Those who are unmeet to be Kings, Magistrates, Commanders, or Ministers, have yet skill enough to chuse able per∣sons for such offices, & power to delegate to them such Parliamentary, Royall Ma∣gisteriall, Pastorall authority, as is necessary for their severall offices, which those who elected them never had actually, but onely originally or virtually in them, not to use, but derive them unto others: why then may not our free-holders, who

Page 24

have voices in electing the members of our Parliaments, and the Commonalty to the Land, (whom you scandalously terme, the vilest and most unworthy of men, though there be a degree of vulgar people viler and unworthier then they in all respects, who have no votes in such elections) have sufficient authority in them to elect and nominate such fitte, persons, who by virtue of such nomination or election shall have right and power to enact Lawes, Statutes, in matters of Religion, Worship, and Church-government, not dissonant from Gods Word, to which themselves and others by Gods owne ordinance must sub∣mit? If the common people, who neither are nor can be Parliaments, Emperors, Kings Judges, Magistrates, Ministers, have yet a lawful power to make others such by their bare election & to give them such authority and power as themselves ne∣ver actually were or can be possessors of, then why by the self, same reason may they not likewise delegate a lawfull Ecclesiasticall legislative authority in church-affairs, to their elected Parliamentary and Synodall Members, which was never actually in themselves, as well as Mr Goodwin delegate the power of determining who should be fit persons to receive the Sacrament, and to become members of his independent Congregation, to eight select substitutes, which was never actually vested in himselfe, nor transferrible thus to others by any Law of God or man? why may not a man bring an ecclesiastical or spiritual extraction out of a secular root, (contrary to your Paradox) as well as a Regall, Magisteriall, Parliamentall, M∣nisteriall extraction, out of a meere popular or servile root? or the best strong waters out of the vilest Lees; the richest Minerals out of the coursest earth? the most orient Pearles out of the basest Oisters? In one word, the very choice these your vilest and most unworthy of men have made this Parliament, may for ever re∣fute this childish reason, the corner-stone of your Independent fabricke, fast∣ned together with independent crochets, unable to abide the test. There∣fore notwithstanding this your reason, our present Parliament may and ought, in point of right & duty to make binding Laws for regulating church-government, restraining heresies, schismes, innovations, erronious doctrines, unlawfull conventi∣cles, and for setling the purity of Gods worship and Religion, notwithstanding this objection; and with as much reason, justice, raise, and establish a new church∣government, suitable to Gods Word and the civill State, as reforme or repeale the old, (which grew to burden some and offensive) till Independents can shew us better grounds against it then any yet produced: and informe us, why our whole representative Church and State should not of right enjoy and exercise as great or greater ecclesiasticall jurisdiction, over all particular persons and Churches who are Members of our Church and Realme, as any independent Minister or Con∣gregation challenge or usurp unto themselves, over their owne Members (this be∣ing the true state of the question and not whether one particular Church, or parish, hath superiority or Iurisdiction over another? as some mistake it) without yea against both Law & Gospel for ought they yet have made appeare? I shall say no more in so clear a case, but refer the Author to the high Court of Parliament, (whose un∣doubted priviledges he hath presumptuously undermined by the very roots) to crave their Pardon, or undergo their justice for this and other his Anti-parliamen∣tany passages, diametrally contrary to his, our, their late Nationall Vow and Co∣venant, which they cannot without highest Perjury permit any wilfully thus to violate in the most publike manner.

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