Truth maintained, or, Positions delivered in a sermon at the Savoy since traduced for dangerous, now asserted for sovnd and safe / by Thomas Fvller.

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Title
Truth maintained, or, Positions delivered in a sermon at the Savoy since traduced for dangerous, now asserted for sovnd and safe / by Thomas Fvller.
Author
Fuller, Thomas, 1608-1661.
Publication
Printed at London :: [s.n.],
1643.
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Subject terms
Church of England -- Doctrines -- Apologetic works.
Reformation -- Sermons.
Sermons, English -- 17th century.
Cite this Item
"Truth maintained, or, Positions delivered in a sermon at the Savoy since traduced for dangerous, now asserted for sovnd and safe / by Thomas Fvller." In the digital collection Early English Books Online. https://name.umdl.umich.edu/A70084.0001.001. University of Michigan Library Digital Collections. Accessed May 3, 2024.

Pages

SERMON Paragraffe 11.
Againe, we freely confesse that there may be some faults in our Church in matters of practise and Ceremo∣nies, and no wonder if there be, it would be a miracle if there were not. Besides, there be some Innovations ra∣ther in the Church then of the Church as not chargeable on the publike Account, but on private mens scores, who are old enough, let them answer for themselves.

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EXAMINER.

These are but subtill W Apologies and distinctions, for the X superstitions in the Church, and to take off the eyes of the Reformers, and entertaine them into changeable dis∣courses as if they were faults and no faults, and those that were, were irreformable, and could not be made better. And thus while the errours of our Church should call them to reforme, your difficulties Y and impossibilities would call them off. You say it were a Miracle to have none: This is such Sophistry as the malignity of your Clergy would cast in the way of our Reformation. And for theAInnovations they have beene made by your most learned the immediate issues of our Church, our Rubrick and pra∣ctise have beene called to witnesse it; therefore goe not on to perswade such a B Fundamentall Integrity and Essen∣tiall Purity. You know in what a case that C Church was when she thought her selfe rich; and full, and glorious. He is no lesse an enemy to the Patient then to the Physitian that would perswade him that all is well or at the lest incurable.

TREATISE.

W. These are but subtill Apologies.) Truly no such matter; they are even plaine and downeright confessions from the simplicity of my heart.

X. For the superstitions in the Church.) Sir, lay not your Enditement higher then you are sure your proof will reach. You might have done well to have insisted on some parti∣culars, whilst now your generals accuse much, convict no∣thing.

Y. Your difficulties and impossibilities would call them off.) Not so; for to shew wise Reformers the true difficulties of their worke will quicken not quench their endeavours. Thus the Carpenter being truly told that the wood is hard, he is

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to hew, will therefore not throw away his Axe, but strike with the greater force. And that the Doctrine of the im∣possibility of a Churches perfect Reformation on earth well understood, is no hinderer to mens Labours to Reforme, hath been largely proved before.

Z. You say it were a Miracle for a Church to have no faults: This is such sophistry as the Malignity of your Cler∣gy would cast in the way of our Reformation.) This sophistry will at last prove good Logick, and whatsoever you pretend of Malignity, this is a truth to be confided in: Namely, That no Church in this world can be so compleat, but it will have faults. For the Church being a body consisting of imperfect men the Members thereof, the body must needs be imperfect also. This appeares by the constant necessity of Preaching, which otherwise might well be spared, and all our Sermons turned into Psalmes, as also by the power of the Keyes, which will never rust in the Church for want of imployment. Yea that Petition in the Prayer of Christs providing for us (and forgive us our Trespasses, as we for∣give them that Trespasse against us) were both needlesse and false if men might be perfect in this world. This per∣chance is the reason why the Perfection-mongers of this Age quarrell with this Prayer, as having too much pride to confesse their owne faults, and too little Charity to for∣give other mens, so ill doth a Publicans prayer fit a Phari∣sees mouth.

A. As for Innovations they have beene made by your most learned.) Concerning Innovations I must inlarge my selfe. In mixt Actions wherein good and bad are blended toge∣ther, we can neither chuse nor refuse all, but may pick out some, and must leave the rest.

First, they may better be tearmed Renovations then In∣novations, as lately not new forged, but new furbished. Se∣condly, they were not so many as some complaine. The sus∣pitious old man cryes out in the Comedy, that 600. Cooks were let into his house, when they were but two.

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Jealousie hath her hyper boles as well as her flattery. Third∣ly, some of these Innovations may easier be rayled on then justly reproved; namely, such as concerned the adorning of Churches, and the comlinesse of mens behaviour in Gods service, where outward decency (if not garish, costly above the Estates of the parish, mimicall affected or superstitious) is the Harbinger to provide the lodging for inward holi∣nesse. For some bodily distance brings our souls the neerer to God, with whom some have such clownish familiarity, they have the lesse friendship. Fourthly, if these gave of∣fence, it was not for any thing in themselves but either be∣cause;

First, they were challenged to be brought in without law. This often makes good matters to be ill relished, honest men if wise withall, being loath to pay their obedience, be∣fore it becomes legally due.

Secondly, because they seemed new and unusuall, and we know how in dangerous times every well-meaning stranger may be suspected for a spy till he hath given an ac∣count of himselfe. Now few daughter-Churches had seen such Ceremonies, though some of their Mother-Cathedrals could well remember them.

Thirdly, because they were multiplied without any set number; and those Ceremonies which men saw were in∣definit, they feared would be infinit.

Fourthly, because they were pressed in some places with∣out moderation. And herein some young men (I will not say ran without sending, but) ran further then they were sent, outstripping them who first taught them to goe.

Fifthly, because they were pressed by men, some of whose persons were otherwise much distasted; how justly? let them seek who are concerned.

Lastly, because men complained that painfull Preaching and pious living, the life of Gods service were not pressed and practised with equall earnestnesse, as outward decency the lustre thereof; whence their feares inferred, that the

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shaddowes would devoure the Substance.

Now whereas you say that these Innovations have been made by our most learned, herein I must confesse that the scales of my skill are too little in them to weigh the lear∣ning of great Schollers and to conclude who have the most. But this I know, that alwayes a distinction hath been made and admitted betwixt the opinions and practise of the most eminent particular Doctors (how great soever in place pow∣er or parts) and the Resolutions and Commands of the Church in generall. In which respect, what hitherto you alleadge to the contrary, doth no whit disprove my words, that such Innovations are rather in the Church then of the Church, by which they were never absolutely enjoyned nor generally received, as alwayes disclaimed by many, and late∣ly disesed by most.

Such indeed as used them out of Conscience (I should have no Conscience to think otherwise of some) are not to be blamed if they privately practise them still, at their own petill, till their judgements are otherwise informed. Such as took them up for fashion sake, for fashion sake have since laid them downe. Such as were frighted into them desist, now their feare is removed. Lastly, those who used them in hope of preferment, now disuse them in despaire there∣of, not to say some of them are as violent on the contrary side, and perchance onely wait the Word of command from the prevalent party to turne Faces about againe. In briefe, seeing generally these Ceremonies are left off, it seems nei∣ther Manners nor Charity, alwayes to lay that in mens di∣shes, which the Voider some pretty while since hath cleane taken away.

Say not that these Innovations are now rather in a swound then dead & likly to revive, when cherished with the warmth of Authority, seeing His Majesty hath often and fully prof∣fered, that whatsoever is justly offensive in them shall be re∣moved, and pitty it is but that the rest should by the same lawfull power be re-enforced. But enough hereof, and

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more perchance then will please the Reader, though lesse could not have satisfied the Writer; If I have contented any, well; If I have displeased all, I am contented.

B. Therefore goe not on to perswade such a Fundamentall Integrity and Essentiall purity.) Indeed the pains may well be spared, for all wise men are sufficiently perswaded there∣of already. For if hereby you meane (and I would faine learne what other sence your words are capable of) that the Csturch of England hath not as yet been Entire in the Fun∣damentals, and Pure in the Essentials to Salvation. We all are in a wofull Condition. Have we lived thus long in our Church, now to dye eternally therein? Seeing none can be saved therein if it be unsound in the Fundamentals of Reli∣gion; must the thousand six hundred forty third yeer from Christ's birth be the first yeer of the nativity of the Church of England, from which she may date her Essentiall purity? Sir, I could at the same time chide you with anger, be∣moane you with pitty, blush for you with shame, were it not that I conceive this passage fell unawares from your pen, and that you intend to gather it up againe.

C. You know in what a case that Church was, when shee thought her selfe rich, and full and glorious.) Good Sir, ac∣cept of my service to stay you, or else run on till you be stopt by your owne wearinesse. Our Church never brag'd thus her selfe, nor any other for her; whose faults we have already freely confessed, yet maintained her to be sound in all Fundamentals, and pure in all Essentials.

Notes

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