Truth maintained, or, Positions delivered in a sermon at the Savoy since traduced for dangerous, now asserted for sovnd and safe / by Thomas Fvller.

SERMON Paragraffe 13. 14. 15. 16.

The qualification for Reformers, the Decent burialls of such Ceremonies, as are taken from the Fathers, the ho∣norable Reservation to our first Reformers.

EXAMINER.

That it may appeare I looke not only at the worst of the Sermon, There are Excellent Truths in it, and it is pitty they are not betters scituated, I could alwaies wish to see a Diamond set in Gold.

These are good Positions, and in their pages not without their enamill of witt, yet there is a policy to write faire in one Leafe, though you ^T make a blot in another, but I cannot let these passe without some observation.

TREATISE.

^S. And it is Pitty they are not better scituated, I could alwaies wish, to see a Diamond set in Gold.) I cannot blame you, especially if the Diamond be their owne. But what meane you by this Expression; Would you have had the Truths in my Sermon to have beene set in the Gold of rich & glittering language. Truly I could not go to the cost there∣of, especially on so short warning, wherein the Sermon was made. How ever a Diamond, is a Diamond though set in Home, whereby the luster thereof may be somewhat dim∣med, but the worth thereof no whit deminished. But in one respect I must confesse these Truthes were ill scituated, that they stood too neere to a captions Reader, who tooke causelesse exception at them.

T. Yet there is apolicie to write faire in one leafe, though you make a blot in another) Shew me Sir, where these blotts bee. For as yet I am more troubled to know my fault, then my defence.

EXAMINER.

First for qualification, ^V I dare say, never age affor∣ded more eminent in this Kimgdome, their calling lawfull, their Pietie exemplary, their knowledge radiant, their cou∣rage experienced through a legion of difficulties, Their prudence in the conduct of a businesse, though opposed with the Policy, and malignity of a grand and Potent E∣nemy.

TREATISE.

V. For their qualification I dare say.) If you dare say it, I dare not to gain say it. Their calling no doubt is lawfull, if the supreame powers concurres with them. Of their pie∣tie, which consists in their hearts, God alone is Iudge. I will not dispute against their radiant Knowledge, nor fight with their experienced Courage, and it were folly in me to oppose their Prudence. Let not the perfections of King Davids Subjects be numbered. God make their Konw∣ledge, their Courage, their Prudence, an hundred fold more then it is, and may the Eyes of my Lord the King see the same, to his comfort and Honour.

EXAMINER.

And for the decent, buriall of Ceremonies, and super stitions ^W of the Fathers) They shall have a Parliament of Senators, and an Assembly of Devines to lay them in their grave, And I dare say a Godly Congregation in the King∣dome to sing a Psalme at their Funerall; and will not this

be a very decent ^X buriall? And for the Honorable reser∣vation, to the reformer••, and their memories, our Devines and reformers, now have ever made resorte and appeale to the Truths they delivered; and in those times when Beza, and Calvin, and Peter Mertir were set lowest, till the Master of the feast came lately, and bid them sitt up high∣er, a Caistan and Bellarmine, and a Councell of Trent, I am sure had more honor from the Devinity of the other yeare, or your times, so farre we admire the reformers, as to love their Truths and to pittie their Errors. But I will not say much, Errors may be more provoked, then remedied with over-handling; let us be wise in the Colours of good and evill, though it be an honest, yet it is a dangerous mistake to many our freinds, and to few our Enemies.

TREATISE.

W. As for the decent buriall of Ceremonies and supersti∣tions of the Father.) You are cunning to improve your selfe on my words. In my Sermon I made a double supposition, Fist, if there be found in the Fathers practice any Ceremo∣nies smacking of Paganisme or Popery. Secondly, If the same can be justly Challenged to be continued in our Church now, (as if two Suppositions made a Position) you flatly, in∣fer & perumtorily conclude such Superstitions are in our Church. I should be loth to sell wares to such a Chapman, and to trust his honesty in measuring of them out, who hath such a slight in slipping his fingers, that gives him an inch and hee will take an ell, You might have don better, to have could us what the perticulers of these superstitions are.

X. And will not this be a decent buriall.) The pleasant∣nesse of your witt doth please me, some mirth in this sadd times doth well. But you might have been pleased to have taken notice, that by the decent buriall of superstitions Ce∣remonies, (if any such can be proved to be in our Church)

I ment the removing of them in that manner, as might give no just offence to any, as I have largely discoursed of before. However as you say, let but a Parliament lay them in the ground and I shall not moorne for their death but rejoyce at their solemne and legall Interment.

Y. Had more honour from the Devinitie of the other yeare, or your times.) The more shame for such, if any who under valued such Worthy Men. And blessed be God that they have recovered their former esteem. For my part they have not with me regained any new degree of Honor, but still keepe the selfesame place in my valuation of them whereof they ever were peaceably possessed.

EXAMINER.

If I be now examined what reformation I aime at, I answere, my endeavour here, was only to take out of the way such rubbish as others would bring in; If we can but cleare the passage, we go farre in the worke, and in the meane time let us like Ioshuas spies, bring no evill report upon the land we are going to.

TREATISE.

Z. My endeavour here was only to take out of the way such rubbish as others would bring in.) Whether rather, you have not brought in such Rubbish, which others have taken away, be it reported to the juditious Reader.

A. Let us like Ioshuas spies, bring no evill report upon the Land we are going to.) By Ioshuas spies, you meane those who accompanied Caleb, & Ioshun, to spie the Land of Cauaan, and these were guilty of a three fold Fault.

First they spake truth with an ill intent, to disharten the Israelites, in their reporting of the strength of the Country. Secondly, they speake more then truth, rai∣sing the walls of the Cannanitish Cities by their Hyper∣bolyes

as high as Heaven, Lastly they suppressed the most materiall point, not incouraging the people, (as Ca∣leb and Ioshua did, by the assured assistance of God against their enemies. But I conceive my selfe, (against whome your words are darted) to be innocent in the foresaid per∣ticulers.

EXAMINER.

But suppose this perfect reformation, ^B or Church, were among the ^C 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 the 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 the Ragione di sacro Dominio. He were no wise D, nor faithfull Devine who would not preserve that secret ^E for holy advantages, t'is Gods owne designe and his Apostles to hould out a per∣fection to us, be perfect as your Heavenly Father, And some pastors for the perfection of the Saints, I commend Bodin and Tacitus for their Politicall faithfulnesse, they writt farre yet would not sunne the imperiall, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 nor make them Popular.

TREATISE.

B. But suppose this perfect Reformation were e. c.) It seemes you suspect the strength of your outworkes, that you so seasonably retire to your Castle, Now at last condemning this doctrine, not as false, but unfitting to be preach∣ed.

C. Were among the 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 I thinke you would say 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 or otherwise Sir my learning will not extend to understand this your new greeke.

D. He were no wise and faithfull Devine) So then you conclude me a foolish & deceitful Minister, & I had rather you should call me so ten times, then my guiltie conscience should tell me so once, for concealing of a necessary truth.

E. Who would not preserve that secret for holy advan∣tages.) First the question is, wheither or no it lay in my

power if I would to keepe this Point secret. What your people at Hestertonn in Yorkeshire are, you best know in this Doctrine, I was not the teacher but the re∣membrancer of my people at the Savoy, from whom had I closely covered it with both my hands, they would have seene it through all my fingers. Besides what hope can one have to keepe it secret when (as you say) so great and glorious a light is shining now-a-dayes.

But if I could, I ought not to suppresse it. Let Po∣pish tenents be shurt in a cloister, and sicke opinions keepe their Chamber, God never lighted this Truth for us to put it under a bushell, it being alwaies seasonable to bee divulged, and now dangerous to bee concea∣led.

These holy advantages, (I would not count them ad∣vantages were they not holy,) arise from Preaching this point. First, it a wakens men from their Idle dreames of their conceited perfection of a Church here, and too many I feare have made this common-wealth here woefully militant, under pretence here to make the Church happily triumphant.

Secondly, to teach all Christians (Majestrates and Mi∣nisters most especially) as industry so patience, daily to doe, and constantly to suffer no whitt disheartned in their endeavours to perfection. Knowing though things bee badd, after their best labours to amend them, that this proceedes from the inevitable vanity, to which the creature is subject.

Thirdly, to weane men from this world, making them to love and long for the time of the restitution of all things, when this world as a watch out of tune shall not one∣ly bee taken assunder and scoured, but also have all the wheeles made new and then bee perfectly refor∣med.

Yea Sir, let us try whether you or I proceeding on our contrary principles, shall more effectually perswade a reformation, you will tell the world that a perfect reformation in this life is attaineable, even to the antici∣pating of Heaven heare, and this you will presse with all your power and flowers of Retorick, and all little enough to performe so unsavory an untruth. Now see sit what mischiefes will follow hereupon.

1. Because one falsehood requires more to support it, you must call in other auxilliary falsities to defend this, and so engage your selfe in a multitude of errors.

2. Seeing flights and shifts can never last long, your forgery will be detected.

3. You are lyable to Heavens Pillorie to bee punni∣shed for holy fraud.

4. You will scarce be trusted afterwards though telling truth, being once convicted and ever suspected of falshood.

As for those whom you have deceived unto the utmost of their endevours of Reformation, on your false perswa∣sion that the perfection thereof may bee had in this world, though their labours therein bee very forward at the first, yet soone will they wither and weaken with the graine in the Gospel that wanted Roote (no Roote and a false Roote are the same in effect,) and Gods blessing can∣not be expected on the deceitfull proceedings.

As for mee who have no cunning in such hunting, but please my selfe with Iacob to bee a plaine man, I would goe another way to worke, and tell them the worst first, that indeede it is vaine to expect a perfect re∣formation in this world. However let them comfort themselves, that wee serve such a Master who accepts of the will for the deede, and knowes whereof we are made. Hee remembreth that wee are but dust. And therefore let us doe our best, and strugle against our

infirmities, being confident that God in Christ will pardon what is amisse, and reward what is good in us. And I doubt not but such doctrine by Gods bles∣sing will both take deeper impression in mens hearts, and bring forth better fruits of amendment in their lives.

F. I commend Bodin and Tacitus for their politi∣call faithfulnesse, they writt far, yet would not Sun the imperiall 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 nor make them popular.) I con∣fesse it to bee unfitting, yea dangerous to impart mi∣steries of State to private people, for such Iewels are to bee lockt in a safe and sure Cabinet, the bosoms of Polititians, Not so in necessary Points of Divinity, for though every private man hath not a State to go∣verne, hee hath a soule to save, and therefore must be partner in all wholsome doctrines.

Indeede in some cases, Preachers may though not finally suppresse, yet seasonably conceale, or rather wa∣rily deferre the publishing of some points of Religion, First when they are not of absolute concernement to salvation, & the Minister by his Christian discretion plaine∣ly foresees, that all the good which rationally can bee ex∣pected to redound from Preaching such a Truth, will not countervaile the ill, which in probability will ine∣vitably follow thereupon; Or else when the Auditors are not capeable as yet of such difficult Doctrines. Christ himselfe did fitt his Wines to his bottles, powring in not what hee could give, but they could take, least otherwise hee should rather spill his liquor, then fill his vessells.

Neither of these cases now alledged take place con∣cerning the publishing of the Doctrine of the Im∣possibility of the Churches perfection in this world. For we may by Gods blessing justly expect and promise to

ourselves and others much good and comfort from the preaching thereof, as we have largely proved before. Nor dare I so much to disparage the times we live in, (now it being above a hundred yeares since Luthers reformation) as to count them to have age so much, and Knowledge so litle, as not yet to be capable with safety & profit of so plaine & true a Doctrine, some short∣ly expect the day of Iudgment, and sure then the world is already come to Age to understand Truths, except shee come not out of her Mynority till just shee be ready to die and to be dissolved.

G. Would not Sunne the Imperiall 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉.) Godly secrets in Religion in some respects may be Sunn'd. First that thereby they may be tryed, (all Truths have Eagles eyes) whether or no they can behold, and beare the Sunne Beames. Secondly, because our Saviour hath said, what I tell you in darknesse, that speake in the light, and what you heare in the Eare that preach you upon the House toppe. Lastly, that by pro∣claiming them the Godly may have an oppertunity to re∣ceive them, and the wicked be rendred unexcusable for refusing them, when such Truths are made generally knowne.

H. Nor make them popular.) I distinguish on the word Popular. If it be taken, as generally it is, (use having con∣fined a word of generall acception in it selfe, to an ill sence) to Court the good will of people for any private or sinester end, it is utterly unlawfull for Popularity, which is necessary love, in a Prince, is unlawfull lust, in a Subject, who may not Court the Kings wife, for to him a lone, are the People married in a Politicke Relation. All honest men therefore disclaime, to make Truths Popular in this sence, to impart them to the vulgar to gaine any vaine applause. Yea, consider herein, whether you ra∣ther

be not faultie in making the Imperiall 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 to bee Popular, who incite and incourage ordinary People, to make a Publique Reformation.

But Truths in Divinity must be made Popular, that is bee communicated to all people, in true sinceritie for the saving of their Soules.

The Apostle, calleth it the Common salvation, and therefore it must be preached to all in common, our Ser∣mons must, aswell be ad Populum as ad clerum.

Otherwise such Monopolies are illegall and distructive to the State of the Church, for any Ministers to engrosse any wholsome Doctrine to themselves, and not im∣parte it to their Parish, except in the cases afore men∣tioned.

EXAMINER. Apology.

I have now done (I will not say) refuting, but com∣mitting Errors, I am a fraid my hast at this time, hath made me mend one fault, only with another.

TREATISE.

I will not oppose yours, but annex my owne con∣clusion. If I should deny my owne many Imperfecti∣ons, my practise would confute what my Pen hath maintained. Reader, for the matter of what I have written, I require thee, in Gods name do me Iustice, for the manner, method, or words thereof, I request thee, as I am a Man shew mee favour. Thinke not the worse of the Truths, for my sake, but thinke the better of me, for the Truths sake which I have defended. And

conceive me not to be of a brawling and controversiall disposition, who do desire and will pray for an Agree∣ment from my Soule, so long as my speech shall serve me. Yea if I should chance to be stricken dumbe, I would with Zacharia make signes for table bookes and write the name of that which I desire above all earthly thing is PEACE. God send it, Amen.

FINIS.

Notes

• 2 Sam. 3:
• Paragraffe 24.
• 1 Dut. 28.
• 10. That the Do∣ctrine of the Churches im∣perfection may safely bee preached and cannot honest∣ly bee concea∣led.
• Math. 10. 26
• Iude. 3.