Devotion and reason first essay : wherein modern devotion for the dead is brought to solid principles, and made rational : in way of answer to Mr J.M.'s Remembrance for the living to pray for the dead / by Thomas White, Gent.

FIFTH DIVISION Containing an Answer to the eighth and ninth Chapter.

Testimonies from St. Austin to Bede, either unsound in Faith or Divinity. St. Grego∣ry's mis-translated and maimed. Canus his Rule opposit to the Alledgers intention, Ve∣nerable Bede not engag'd in our Controver∣sy. The first Allegation from him misinter∣preted. Drithelmus his Revelation oppo∣sit to the Church's Doctrin.

1. HIS eighth Chapter contains the Authours betwixt St. Austin and Bede. The which to make the fuller, he de∣vides one Authour into Eusebius Emissenus, and Eucherius Lugdunensis; and, if I am not mistaken, it is the same, whom before he cited for St. Austin. The words be afore answered, and the answer is, that they deli∣ver directly my opinion, seeing they menti∣on both the fire of Judgment, and the Con∣dition of Purgatory, that the last farthing must be pay'd in it.

2. After this Trinity and Unity, he brings in two Fathers, whose works I cannot yet get to see, St. Isidore, and St. Julian of Pole∣do; Their Testimonies both seem to be de∣rived from St. Austin, but with their own explications or additions, which I must de∣sire your Divine to make consonant to the Doctrin of the Catholick Church before I accept of them; Otherwise I must think the Text some ways corrupted. Peradventure when I see the Texts, some solution may ap∣pear. In the mean while he makes Isidore tell us, that suffrages profit the dead, not to any merit of eternal life, but ad solutionem poenae; which he interprets the payment of their pains; And I, the releasing, or dissol∣ving of their pains. And I think more pro∣perly. For suffrages are Votes or Interces∣sions, and belong to Impetration, not to Bar∣gaining: Which as far as I have heard, was not thought of in those days. But this by the way: My difficulty is, how, seeing we see all the prayers for the dead to be supplications to bring them to Heaven, and enjoying of God, it can be deny'd that these suffrages of the Saints profit the dead towards the gaining of Heaven, and merit of eternal life. Surely he must say one thing is pray'd for, and another thing given. I doubt if I get the Book I shall

find some other dash of a cunning Painter i•• this citation, yet take it as it lyes as far as concerns our question. the same solution we gave to St. Austin's words, how the pain is mitigated or released, serves for the meaning of this Saint, who seems clearly by the very words to have drawn it of St: Austin.

3. St. Julian's Testimony also as far as he adds to St. Austin's words contain this Doctrin. That the torment of fire in Pur∣gatory is equal to all souls, and onely diffe∣rent in duration. He gives us the words thus, What is performed in those who are re∣probate by distinction of their torments (into sharper or milder, is his comment) that is performed by the measure of time in those who are saved by fire. For to them lesser or greater punishment of Purgatory fire shall be so much the more extended (according to the mea∣sure of time, adds your Divine) by how much they have here more or less lov'd tempo∣ral goods. So that the addition this Father Father maketh to St. Austin is that the Va∣riety of Purgatory pains rises purely out of the measure of time. The which Doctrin I have not heard of either before this Saint or after. And yet I cannot but confess it is a Doctrin necessary to the maintenance of

this opinion, that souls are released from Purgatory, some sooner, some later: For, putting that the pains of Purgatory are some more grievous then others, that variety would take away all just occasion of ones being deliver'd before another; for the lessening of pain would recompense the length of time in him that is longer there for lesser faults, and leave the proportion of justice still constant in both: Now, as it is not impossible this Holy Father might hold this Doctrin, though I believe your Divine if he should speak his conscience, would say he thought it false, so why your Divine should be so stiff upon one half of the pro∣position, and refuse the other, let himself answer, specially one depending upon the other, and having no ground but upon the other, which it self hath no ground at all.

4. We are come to his ninth Chapter, and the Visionarie Ages. And first he brings in St. Gregory the Great, and he accuses me that unskilfully and injuriously I make this our Apostle and Father in Christ to be Fa∣ther of their opinion. And I cannot deny but I was in the wrong and lyable to his blame: But I hope I have given him satisfaction in part in my answer to the Vindicatour, which by all circumstances he could not

chuse but have heard of before the printing his Book, yet pleased not to take notice of. He may find it in pag. 77. and repeated in my Notes upon the Result, pag. 32, 33. 70, 71, 72. So that, supposing my confession will de∣serve his absolution, I confess my fault to have lay'd that Book so flatly to St. Gregory's charge, whereas I find now some reasons to doubt of it. But yet I cannot deny but that the Authour of that Book was the main Origin and supporter of the opinion. Nor doth his opposition remove me from believing the Authour, who telleth it me with his own mouth. Your Divine himself cites the words, but not without the mystery of a Transla∣tour. For the Popes words in the Person of his Deacon are. Why in these Testimonies (by the answer, I conceive he means towards the end of the World) so many things concerning souls, (clarescunt) become clear, which be∣fore lay hidden: In so much that the world to come seems to open and press it self upon us by plain Revelations and Manifestations. Your Divine instead of do grow clear, which signi∣fies the present time, puts were discovered. For which before were hidden, he translates, had remained undiscovered, as if they were not things, which needed Revelation, but one∣ly Discovery. The last words by which it's

manifest that the discovery is made by Re∣velations and not by our endeavours, he quite leaves out. He fairly grants that the Pope acknowledges the case of the question to be true; And gives the answer, to wit, that the nearer this world araws to the next, the state of the next is by more signs made ma∣nifest, as the latter part of the night partakes of the dawning of the day. I wonder if the question were divided, and first asked, did this knowledg begin in this Age? What could be more plainly answer'd then, in these latest or ending times. If it were ask'd, was the Doctrin delivered before? what more plain then Ante latuerunt, they were before un∣known. If it were ask'd by what means do they now come to be known? what more plain then, by plain Revelations and Mani∣festations or Apparitions. I wonder where is the sincerity I saw, or thought I saw in this man at my first acquaintance with him that he should bring so manifest and plain an as∣sertion into question? I fear a new Divini∣ty hath taught him also new Morality.

5. For his own defence he objects that St. Gregory in the former Chapters, for nine Chapters together had recounted strange things of souls, wherefore it may be the Au∣thour meaned of them. Nor will I deny that;

but, seeing the story is the occasion of the question, and immediately advances and brings it in, there is no probability this should be none of those he speaks of. I should be tedious to my Reader to press a thing so clear beyond enough. Therefore I will onely note how unlikely this Testimony and the alleadging of it is to the practice of Magdeburgians, by which he would obscure it. For here is expresly held forth; Now it begins, it was unknown before Revelations, and, the pressing upon us of the next world; not old Tradition, doth manifest these things, of which kind if the Magdeburgians would bring proof, this Divine would find a hard task to maintain the contrary.

6. He makes mention of the Judgment of Canus concerning these stories of Pope Gre∣gory, and venerable Bede, and expresses it, that the Nicety of this Age will not credit them; so he translates Aristarchi, which word signifies the grave Censurers or good Divines, to whom Censuring belon•…•… And truly I do not doubt but if such stor••••s were written now, they would be forbidden as some have been: For indeed they under∣mine Christian Divinity, by introducing va∣ga bond Purgatories, Circumstances not ac∣cording to the Rule of faith to be required

to Salvation; and scarcely can you find a story of any length, but it hath a smack of somekind of superstition in it. He adds a Rule of Canus to distinguish Histories as to their truth; to wit, to see whether the Authour relates what himself saw or had from those who saw it. In which kind of stories he says it is an heynous offence, to suspect that approved Doctours will recommend a ly to eternal me∣mory.

7. This Rule being setled, he produces the story of the simoniacal Monk, whom his Abbot, Authour of the story, caused after 30 dayes Purgatory to be redeemed by thirty Masses. Well then, according to our Rule let us not deny any thing that the Authour saw or had from those who saw it. We must confess then, that the Monk was simoniacal; His fellow Monks forbidden to assist at his death; His body with the mony buried without Christian Ceremonies, No prayers for him for a whole month, and Mass for the second month. All this was seen, and there∣fore we should wrong the Authour, and offend against Canus his Rule if we deny'd any of this. After this follows how after thirty days the Monk appeared to his Bro∣ther (who as I remember was an Apotheca∣ry, and the Apparition in his Sleep) telling

him hitherto I have been in bad case; but now I am well; For this day I have received the Communion, which (says your Divine) I un∣derstand to be the full effect of the Communion of the Saints. I pray, Sir, do you think Pope Gregory, or Copiosus who had the Vision were eye-witnesses of this gloss? and yet the verity of the History depends chiefly and mainly upon it. For, if it be not true, there is somewhat that stands not well with ordinary Divinity, and so the whole History the which subsists upon Copiosus's, whether you call it vision or dream, will fall to the ground. Now I see the forbidding of his fellow Monks to assist the Simoniacal Person at his death, and the burying of him unchri∣stianly, was a kind of Excommunication to him; and this without question we are to think he alluded to whatsoever the dark meaning of the word be, which seems rather to be a fancy that run in Copiosus's head, out of what he had seen done to his Brother, then to bear any perfect sense with it.

8. Your Divine here hath another pretty invention, which if he can prove, I shall sub∣mit to all he saith of Purgatory. He lays it forth in these words. Lastly, some are so ig∣norant in Antiquity, as to account it an exoti∣cal kind of Excommunication which is extended

to Purgatory. And I confess my self one of those. Yet, he must not bring instances to me, how dying or dead men were excommu∣nicated. For all that I shall not stick to grant him; but I shall tell him, Christian Burial and publick Prayers and Ceremonies, were forbidden to be exhibited towards them, tó terrify the living, not to endamage the soul. And so the present History tells how much other Monks were terrify'd by the example of this punishment lay'd on the Simoniacal Monk: I know some Greeks have been of the opinion that the bodies also of excom∣municate persons could not dissolve into Earth untill Absolution was given to them: But I know likewise it was held to be an Er∣rour. And, as for this action of the Abbot, I confess I understand it not. For had he had the apprehension that the torments of Pur∣gatory be so great as Divinity tells us, he could never methinks have with a Christian heart spoken those words, It is now a good while since our brother who is departed remains in torments of fire, and therefore we must shew him some charity. As who should say, I am content he hath suffer'd the pains of Purga∣tory for one month, nay two, for so long it was before he designed him to be released. Imagine he had caused him to be rack'd or

impal'd so long, would not all the Christian World have abominated the cruelty? What conceit then had he of Purgatory, that would let his Brother burn in that cruel fire so long without shewing him any Charity? I would to God your Divine had told us where we might find that Vindication o•• the Book he speaks of; For the more I consider it, the more unworthy it seems to me to be our great Doctour, and savour more of the Monk then of the Pope. Though, besides, he tells us that this story hapned three years be∣fore his writing, and Baronius tells that the Book was written in the fourth year of St. Gregory's Popedome, at which time St. Gre∣gory could not be in his Monastery. Nor do I think Baronius can rattle Canus for this opinion then, since he held it himself in his eighth Tome, and revoked it in his ninth; Therefore he may have patience with one who falls into the Errour, into which himself fell before.

9. Let us omit that ridiculous opinion of excommunicating souls in Purgatory, and an∣swer the question he puts, what any Judici∣ous Catholick can say to the story? Which is, that the Authour of this Book sheweth no such exact inspection into every circum∣stance, as that any man should be bound to

believe that he could not be deceived, either in his Judgment, or in his narration, as that truly Copiosus knew not of the saying of the Masses. And I wish you to note your Di∣vine's advice he gives, that when the Authour makes this Argument that concordante visi∣one cum Sacrificio res apertè claruit, he speaks like a Doctour. Is this Tradition, or Scrip∣ture, or Councils, upon the which Doctour's proceed, or a common and ordinary pru∣dence, by which every man conducts his pri∣vate business?

10. There follow two stories out of Ve∣nerable Bede, written as an Historian should write, and as it was worthy of his Learning and Wisdome. The first is nothing to the Alledger's Purpose, being but of the profi∣ting of the Mass to the dead, which is the po∣sition common to us both. That which he chiefly takes notice of, is this word delivery, or loosing, as if we held the souls were never to be deliver'd, or that their delivery came not to pass by prayers and other good works: So that this being agreed on, and that there is no specification of time, there is nothing particular in this story, but that many who heard this story were devoutly in∣flamed in faith; to wit, to pray for the dead; by which we understand that this story was

the occasion of their apprehension of sud∣dain delivery, which hath no other ground then the parallelling of the loosing of his fetters to the help in Purgatory, which every man would guess of according to the prin∣ciples he was before imbued with: So that both the effect is common to both opinions, and the ground every ones application of the Miracle to a spiritual effect, which they saw no otherwise then in a corporeal allego∣ry. But your Divine explicates inflamed in faith, which as it lyes, signifies no more then that they grew fervent towards good life, to signifie that they had recieved this faith from the beginning, which, seeing there is no ground for it in the Authour, is but a kind of a corruption of the Text by the Divines ad∣dition to it.

11▪ The later story of Drithelmus hath one circumstance that favours your Divines opinion, but the very same words have a blot to mar it, that is, what you•• Divine (I doubt) will acknowledg to be a flat He∣resy. I mean that these words. all shall come to Heaven in the day of Judgment, include some who have no Obstacle of Sin, to wit, those in the fourth place. So that he affirms them not to go to Heaven as soon as purged, against the Council of Florence and Bene∣dictus

his Bull. Whence, by the Rule that no Revelations are to be admitted, which con∣tain any thing inconsonant to Faith, this Re∣velation is to be rejected: not so far as concerns venerable Bede, who truly relates what Drithelmus not onely reported, but truly thought: But that he, Drithelmus, was some way deluded, either because the Visi∣on was a natural effect of forgoing thoughts, or that he mistook himself in the rehearsal, or some such like cause, whereof the contin∣gency of sublunary causes furnish us with store. I pray take notice also that the works of the living help many to be freed before the day of Judgment, be the words of the An∣gel, not of Venerable Bede; narrative, not doctrinal. Whence you may see this Divine continues still his practice, of proving earne∣stly that which is not in controversy, and saying little or nothing of that which is the true difficulty.