Some drops of the viall, powred out in a season when it is neither night nor day, or, Some discoveries of Iesus Christ His glory in severall books ... : all which books are here reprinted in one booke entirely after the severall impressions of them and presented to the reader / by John Saltmarsh ...

Reply.

You say you cannot divide Discipline from his assistance, who can make it effectuall.

That is, from the Magistrates. This is a signe without further Argument, that you do not hold your government for Christs, because it cannot be effe∣ctuall of it self, without help from below, and the world, and to another power then its own; nor is the sword of God, and Gideon any faire and just proof for joyning Presbytery and Magistracy; it joynes only God and the Magistrates.

You say, Your godly jealousie will set up as many securities as may be.

But then they are warrantable and Gospel-wayes of security. That is no godly jealousie which sets up other wayes; as Herod killing all the children to secure his Kingdome; David dissembling to escape; Iacob to get a blessing: there is jealousie, but no godly jealousie nor warrantable security: So to secure any way, though of truth, by a power not allowed on in the Gospell, as no such compulsive power is in your way, is not to be jealous with a godly jealousie; though I deny not but some of those may be godly who are so jea∣lous, but not in that.

You say, that some fear▪ Gods anger for their communion with Hereticks, &c.

You know all such feare is only warrantable in the Church not in the world: It is not so with the Nations now as with the Iews. Now if we have not communion with them in the Nation, we must goe out of the world. But, What communion is this you meane that will bring Gods anger? You have your liberty to withdraw, to separate as they from you: If it be nationall or civill communion, then you pluck up the tares before the time of harvest.

But whom you esteem Hereticks, they it may be think they have as good Scriptures to esteem you so; and this is Heretick for Hereticks, interpretation against interpretation. And since there is only a sufficiency, but no infallibility now as before; since there is no Apostles for interpretation as at first, for Re∣velation, why do we thus cry out, Hereticks, Hereticks; the Sword, the Sword? Let me put one Question here.

Suppose those you call Hereticks were of equall number to you, and both of you equally numbred with Magistrates, and both of you equally princi∣pled for persecution and both equally calling out for the Magistrates Sword; What clashing of swords would there be! What edge against edge! What

authority against authority! What power against power! What bloudy do∣ings! What sad workings! What confusion would there be! This is an Image of your Incorporation of your two powers that you so plead for in this kind. If we were equally principled and armed for persecution as you are, and acted by your spirit; Ah, what a Kingdome would here be!

You say, Some have aversenesse to Heresie in a true zeale to God.

These are but generall notions of Heresie. Every thing is not Heresie that is called so. And for true zeal to God in that aversenesse all this is granted, if that be Heresie indeed. But how if it be such a zeal as Paul saith the ••ewes had, a zeal, but not according to knowledge? how if it be such a zeal to God as crucified the Sonne of God? and such a zeal there hath been, we know. The Iews did much in zeal to Truth, even against Truth.

But you close up with that of the Lords and Commons in an Ordinance, &c.

I am afraid these are such proofs as you intend most in your Presbytery, to make your supplement to Scripture from Authority, and so to make us beleeve what you cannot perswade us to beleeve, and to make it out by an Ordinance what you want by Scripture.

But I hope that honourable Senate will rather let you argue from the Scripture against us then from their Authority.

But I have not to doe here with answering Ordinances of Parliament.

I contend not, but submit to them in every Ordinance for the Lords sake; nor doth my Argument lie against any thing of theirs, but yours. I dare not undervalue them to count them as Parties, but Iudges in out difference. I appeal to the Parliament, as to Caesar: nor in it a faire proofe of Truth, to draw the Magistrates Sword out of the Scabbard.

You say, You wonder, considering who was ingaged, I would so undervalue them to compare them with Papists and Prelates.

I did consider who was ingaged, a Parliament, &c. and had I not highly valued them, I had not ventured so far in my Quaere. I considered the sad and farall troubles which attended the Magistrates ingagements with the Ministers; the bloud which hath been powred out by Nationall compulsion of tender consc••e••ces; and like a spirituall Watchman, I could not but blow my Trumpet, and give warning. And for my comparison or Papists and Prelates, I appeal to the world if there be any reproach; whether it be not in the In∣terpreter, rather then in the Author. But I know no such thing by my Pa∣per: And if it be lawfull to draw in consequent conclusions▪ and then father them, I could prove you to speake Treason, Blasphemy, Idolatry, Atheisme, Heresie, nay, Independencie, which some of your Way thinke worse▪ A••a∣baptisme, Separation, which would seeme to be as hatefull to you: But I judge you not in any such sort; nor had I spoken so far now, but in a just Vindication.

You say, You will conclude with my Politicks; and upon such Principles as mine, Church-government is ordained.

I have told you my Politicks were written by my dimmer light. And if your Government be built upon no better Principles then mine, I cannot but be out of conceit with that Government, being so far out of conceit with mine own Principles; and it makes me think the worse of it, because my former Principles fit it so well. Those Principles you speak on are part∣ly of C••vill power and the Sword; and the Dominion or Scepter in the Gospell, is more Spirituall.

You say of my Text in the Revelation, Revel. 18▪ 1. that as I began, so I end, with misapplication of Scripture.

Misapplication is a word sooner writ then proved; and my reasons were rather crowded then ordered in my Paper.

The Scripture was this: For the Angell that came down from Heaven hath great power, and the earth is lightned with his glory.

Which Scripture there applyed, doth hint to any that will not rather ca∣vill then interpret, that my only reason for delay of Government was in this: An Angell was yet to come with power and glory; or, the Gospell would fill the earth with more light; ••o as we should not shut up our selves too soon in the dark.

And now Reader, judge whether it be my mis-application, or his mis∣interpretation.