The invalidity of John Faldo's vindication of his book, called Quakerism no Christianity being a rejoynder in defence of the answer, intituled, Quakerism a new nick-name for old Christianity : wherein many weighty Gospel-truths are handled, and the disingenuous carriage of by W.P.
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Title
The invalidity of John Faldo's vindication of his book, called Quakerism no Christianity being a rejoynder in defence of the answer, intituled, Quakerism a new nick-name for old Christianity : wherein many weighty Gospel-truths are handled, and the disingenuous carriage of by W.P.
Author
Penn, William, 1644-1718.
Publication
[London? :: s.n.],
Printed in the year 1673.
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Subject terms
Faldo, John, 1633-1690. -- Quakerism no Christianity.
Society of Friends -- Apologetic works.
Cite this Item
"The invalidity of John Faldo's vindication of his book, called Quakerism no Christianity being a rejoynder in defence of the answer, intituled, Quakerism a new nick-name for old Christianity : wherein many weighty Gospel-truths are handled, and the disingenuous carriage of by W.P." In the digital collection Early English Books Online. https://name.umdl.umich.edu/A54154.0001.001. University of Michigan Library Digital Collections. Accessed May 16, 2024.
Pages
descriptionPage 389
CHAP. XIII.
My Adversary declines meddling with my Appendix.
His Dising enuity great. His Perversions and Wre∣stings
about his Key, pretending to open our Words,
Detected.
VVE are now come to his Two and Twentieth
and last Chapter, which for his Truth, Rea∣son,
Language and Carriage towards me, is an exact
Representation of his intire Reply, which will not be
hard for any serious Reader to observe, and make
that use of it which may forever discard J. Faldo in his
Opinion from any future Pretence to honesty in Wri∣ting,
till he hath publickly recanted this; but because I
always desire he should speak for himself, be pleased to
hear him this.
Reply, p. 91.
In W P's Answer to the third Part of my Book,
he sayes nothing to the Chapter of the Characters of A∣postolical
Persons and Inspirations, wherein (it consisting
of Twenty four Pages) I agitated at large these Points,
to the Overthrow of their pretended Apostolical Ministry,
and Inspirations of the same kind with theirs, common to
all Believers, on which Quakerism is founded.
Rejoynder.
This Complaint might have been very allowable in
descriptionPage 390
case I had not already sufficiently considered and an∣swered
whatsoever was of moment in those Twenty
Four Pages under the Head of Inspiration; and that him∣self
had not been so shamefully injust, as after having
attackt the first Part of my Book, intituled, The Spi∣rit
of Truth Vindicated, with Thirty Four Pages, and
I replied in an intire Appendix of Thirty Pages, he
had not wilfully neglected to give ••s one word of Re∣joynder:
I beseech my Reader to take notice of this
one great Piece of Disingenuity; for if I must be chid,
because I did not unnecessarily repeat Controversie,
having already defended our Doctrine in this Point,
under the Head of Inspiration and Gospel-Mini∣stry,
What shall be said to him, that unprovokedly
fell foul of my fore named Book, and after I had re∣plied
in its Defence takes no more notice, then if
he were wholly unconcerned in any such Attempts?
He must either think what he writ irrefutable or inde∣fensible;
If the first, then he need not have replyed at
all, since I am perswaded he believes one part of what
he writ to be as irrefutable as the other: If because
indefensible, he is to be excused, yet deservedly to be
blamed for finding that Fault: with others which he is
much more guilty of himself. To say nothing of his
Pretence of Answering Two Hundred Fifty Four Pa∣ges
within the Compass of Ninety Six, and that Skip
he makes over my whole Key, consisting of about half
a score Pages, added for the Opening our true Mean∣ing
from that perverted sense, ignorant and malicious
Persons have put upon our Principles: And lastly, his
Vindication of his Key in not a page and an half a∣gainst
Six or Seven Pages of my Answer, wherein, I hope,
descriptionPage 391
it was proved abundantly defective. But let us hear
what he sayes to remedy those defects I therein charged
upon it.
Reply, p. 92.
In my Key of Two Hundred and Fifty Particulars, he
excepts against Ten; Five of which he further explains,
the other Five he opposes.
Rejoynder.
This looks unfair on my part, till my Reader be in∣formed,
that not one of these Two Hundred and Fifty
Particulars had so much as the Name of Man or Book,
consequently no Page, how to find and read any of
those things he affirms to be our Sense or Meaning,
which is enough to discredit an Honester Writer then
J. Faldo; so that what I did, was more then could be
justly expected, much less challenged from me: how∣ever,
I took Ten of the most suspicious. If he be dis∣proved
in those, there is great Reason to suspect him
about the Rest, till he hath produced more unquestion∣able
Evidence. Of these he tells us, I explain one Five
and oppose the other, Let us hear how he gives my
Opposition, and what is his Replication.
Reply.
The first of these is in pag. 247. THE WILL
OF THE FLESH. i. e. All that is chosen by
Man, though he be thereto disposed by the Will of God
revealed in the Scriptures. This W. P. calls False,
and an Abominable and Notorious Untruth. I have
proved at large their calling all things of a Religious Na∣ture
descriptionPage 392
by that Name which are not by Immediate Inspirati∣on:
although the Scriptures have Precepts! and Exam∣ples,
commanding and prescribing them.
Rejoynder.
If this be not to beg the Question, no Man ever did
since the World was. He sayes, he hath proved it at
large: and I say, I have refuted it at large; and what
sayes he to that? no more then this, I have proved it
at large, &c. Doth this Man look like an able Dispu∣tant?
That he is not an honest one, take my An∣swer,
by him omitted, with his own words faithfully
cited.
J. F. pag. 69. THE WILL OF THE
FLESH, i. e. All that is chosen by Man, though
he be thereto disposed by the Will of God revealed in the
Scripture.
W. P. This is False; Many things may be and are
daily chosen by Man, that is not in the Will of the
Flesh, nor by his own Will, much less when any
should be disposed thereto by the Will of God
revealed in the Scripture: An Abominable Un∣truth,
and so Notorious, that I need say no more;
only Challenge him to produce any of us (that
is, any of our Sayings or VVritings) in Proof
of his Exposition, if he can; otherwise be hath
Slandered Us and Our Principles: For the W••ll
of the Flesh, is that which is quite Contrary to
God, and inconsistent with the Good of the Creature.
How well he hath acquitted himself in point of
Honesty, as well as Ability, first, in so maiming my
Answer; and next, in saying nothing to it, is still
descriptionPage 393
referred to my Reader's Judgment, and so we pro∣ceed.
Reply, pag. 92.
The second is, pag. 249. CHRIST THE
OFFERING, i. e. the Light within. W. P. calls
this no Quakers Expression; that it is, take this
Proof. We believe that Christ in us doth offer him∣self
up a Living Sacrifice to God for us, Smith. Cat.
pag. 64.
Rejoynder.
I still say, it is no Quaker's Expression; Though the
Light that shineth in our Hearts be Christ the true
Light; But that which I most insisted on, he hath (as
he useth to do) quite left out; viz. for he would by
this insinuate, that we deny Christ to be an Offering as in
the Flesh, and that Body then offered up to be concer∣ned
in our Belief of the Offering; but I do declare it to
have been an Holy Offering, and such an one too, as
was to be once for all; therefore let none receive his A∣buse
of us for our Faith.
He that hath half an Eye may see, how poorly and
meanly he hath shifted off the Weight of my Answer.
Again,
Reply, p. 92.
The third, MEN-PLEASERS. Sense. They
who comply with Men though in things not only Lawful,
but also to Edification. This W. P. calls an arrant
Lye; but the ground is, provided J. F. meaneth by
Lawful unto Edification, what we do. I am not so sil∣ly
to put such Bonds on the Truth.
descriptionPage 394
Rejoynder.
Indeed I never took him to be so Silly as Mis∣chievous
in the Matter, not to use his own Phrase
more—then Ignoramus; for instead of putting,
Bonds on the Truth, he hath broken all Bonds
of Truth; he pretends to give our Sense of Men-Pleasers,
and substitutes his own in the room of it;
and when we tell him, that if he means by Lawful
and to Edification, what we do, he belies us; he
confidently replies, I am not so silly to put such Bonds
on the Truth; as if in rendring our Sense of words,
he were not bound to keep to our Sense of them; how
is it our Sense, if it be his, and not ours; and how tru∣ly
ours, if it be putting Bonds on the Truth to render
ours truly? But the Man's present Hardiness is be∣yond
wondring at. To the next.
Reply, p. 92.
TRADITIONS OF MEN, i. e. The Scrip∣ture
or written Word, p. 250. To this W. P. adds;
But to say, they are the Traditions of Men, in the
sense Christ forbid the Pharisaical Religion, God for∣bid:
I had rather my Tongue were cut out of my
Head. Oh base Man, to abuse an Innocent People
thus grosly. I have already proved the Phrase to be the
Quakers, viz. Smith's and Nailor's.
Rejoynder.
This answers it self: if he had taken off the Force of
my Words, I might have bestowed a Rejoynder up∣on
him; in the mean time, I have disproved his pre∣tended
Proof, where I met with it; and what I find
here, is but a meer begging of the Question. The
descriptionPage 395
fifth and last Particular he thus endeavours to vindicate,
is this.
Reply, p. 93.
THE VAIL IS OVER THEM, p. 251. Their
Sense I give of this, he presents the greater half of (which
explains the other) by an &c. to blind the Reader, and
make the Quakers believe, I deserve the Imputations of
Malice and wicked Man, which it seems he is resolved
afore hand to bestow on me.
Rejoynder
The Man is weary of his Work, as we may see,
by the great haste he makes over every particular. No
Man living that hath not read both our Books can make
any Sense of this Hodge-Podge Section; that ever any
Man should touch with Religious Controversie, that is
so visibly defective in it! My Answer shall be my Re∣joynder;
for, sure I am, he hath overlookt it, and
therefore yet to be replyed to.
J. F. p. 89. THE VAIL IS OVER THEM, that
is, sayes J. Faldo, the Belief of the Man
Christ Jesus, which was of our Nature to be p. 251, 252.
the Christ, &c.
W. P. Let this be the last (though several more
might be observed) which at this time shall be conside∣red,
in which we shall see that J. Faldo has done like
himself, and the Man we have all along taken him to
be. The Vail is over them, it is a Scripture-Phrase,
2 Cor. 3. 15. used by the Apostle to express the Dark∣ness
and Ignorance that to that time remained over the
descriptionPage 395
Understanding of the Jews in reading the Law; and
this Vail he makes us to interpret after this gross and
absurd manner; namely, that the Vail is the Man
Christ. Wicked Man! Did ever Quaker so irreve∣rently
express himself? Give us his Name, or tell us
in what Book we may find it. What greater Malice
couldst thou have shown, then thus injustly to pervert
the Scripture in our Name? abusing both: As if,
because Christ's Flesh is called a Vail, and the Ig∣norance
of the Jews a Vail, that therefore the Quakers
must of Necessity mean by Vail in the first Sense, Vail
in the second Sense; as if the Way to have the Vail
rent, were to deny the Man Christ Jesus.
All this my Adversary thought fit to conceal, left his
transcribing it into his Reply, would have made that
Discovery of his Baseness, which he should never
have been able by all his Shifts to palliate. I think I
did not nick-name this Chapter, when I called it a Re∣presentation
of his whole Reply: He ends as he begun,
with Squibs, Puns, Evasions and Ill Language; for
unless the Goodness of a Book be to be measured by
the Paint of a Title-Page, or bare Writing reputed
Replying, he might with more Sense and Reason have
called it Froth, Folly and Fiction, then a Religious Vin∣dication,
&c. No Man I ever read of hath exceeded
the Bounds of Truth by obtruding Falshoods, and wan∣dred
from the D••corum of a fair Adversary, by unfair
Citations and obvious Wrestings, betaken himself for
Sanctuary to such silly Shifts, & School-boy Jeers, at the
rate this Adversary hath done: And I have no Reason to
Doubt of others being of the same Mind, since the
World is not so destitute of Understanding, as to be
cheated with his hocus-pocus Tricks, to take Tin for
descriptionPage 397
Silver, or Copper for Gold, or Froth for Substance, or
Inventions for Texts, or Wrestings for Meanings, or
Gibes and Taunts for pertinent Replies. I have hitherto
abundantly satisfied my self concerning him, and I hope
all that read me, both of him and his Essayes against the
People called Quakers; If not, it ought not to be charged
upon me as wanting good Will to do it: I was never
more sedulous, and I think never more faithful in any
such Affair. And to the End my frequent Complaint of
his unfair Dealing may be further justified and confir∣med,
and his Deportment in the whole of this Contro∣versie
more exactly related, I intreat my Reader to con∣sider
what I have now to tell him.
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