The invalidity of John Faldo's vindication of his book, called Quakerism no Christianity being a rejoynder in defence of the answer, intituled, Quakerism a new nick-name for old Christianity : wherein many weighty Gospel-truths are handled, and the disingenuous carriage of by W.P.

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Title
The invalidity of John Faldo's vindication of his book, called Quakerism no Christianity being a rejoynder in defence of the answer, intituled, Quakerism a new nick-name for old Christianity : wherein many weighty Gospel-truths are handled, and the disingenuous carriage of by W.P.
Author
Penn, William, 1644-1718.
Publication
[London? :: s.n.],
Printed in the year 1673.
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Subject terms
Faldo, John, 1633-1690. -- Quakerism no Christianity.
Society of Friends -- Apologetic works.
Cite this Item
"The invalidity of John Faldo's vindication of his book, called Quakerism no Christianity being a rejoynder in defence of the answer, intituled, Quakerism a new nick-name for old Christianity : wherein many weighty Gospel-truths are handled, and the disingenuous carriage of by W.P." In the digital collection Early English Books Online. https://name.umdl.umich.edu/A54154.0001.001. University of Michigan Library Digital Collections. Accessed May 16, 2024.

Pages

Page 389

CHAP. XIII.

My Adversary declines meddling with my Appendix. His Dising enuity great. His Perversions and Wre∣stings about his Key, pretending to open our Words, Detected.

VVE are now come to his Two and Twentieth and last Chapter, which for his Truth, Rea∣son, Language and Carriage towards me, is an exact Representation of his intire Reply, which will not be hard for any serious Reader to observe, and make that use of it which may forever discard J. Faldo in his Opinion from any future Pretence to honesty in Wri∣ting, till he hath publickly recanted this; but because I always desire he should speak for himself, be pleased to hear him this.

Reply, p. 91.

In W P's Answer to the third Part of my Book, he sayes nothing to the Chapter of the Characters of A∣postolical Persons and Inspirations, wherein (it consisting of Twenty four Pages) I agitated at large these Points, to the Overthrow of their pretended Apostolical Ministry, and Inspirations of the same kind with theirs, common to all Believers, on which Quakerism is founded.

Rejoynder.

This Complaint might have been very allowable in

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case I had not already sufficiently considered and an∣swered whatsoever was of moment in those Twenty Four Pages under the Head of Inspiration; and that him∣self had not been so shamefully injust, as after having attackt the first Part of my Book, intituled, The Spi∣rit of Truth Vindicated, with Thirty Four Pages, and I replied in an intire Appendix of Thirty Pages, he had not wilfully neglected to give s one word of Re∣joynder: I beseech my Reader to take notice of this one great Piece of Disingenuity; for if I must be chid, because I did not unnecessarily repeat Controversie, having already defended our Doctrine in this Point, under the Head of Inspiration and Gospel-Mini∣stry, What shall be said to him, that unprovokedly fell foul of my fore named Book, and after I had re∣plied in its Defence takes no more notice, then if he were wholly unconcerned in any such Attempts? He must either think what he writ irrefutable or inde∣fensible; If the first, then he need not have replyed at all, since I am perswaded he believes one part of what he writ to be as irrefutable as the other: If because indefensible, he is to be excused, yet deservedly to be blamed for finding that Fault: with others which he is much more guilty of himself. To say nothing of his Pretence of Answering Two Hundred Fifty Four Pa∣ges within the Compass of Ninety Six, and that Skip he makes over my whole Key, consisting of about half a score Pages, added for the Opening our true Mean∣ing from that perverted sense, ignorant and malicious Persons have put upon our Principles: And lastly, his Vindication of his Key in not a page and an half a∣gainst Six or Seven Pages of my Answer, wherein, I hope,

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it was proved abundantly defective. But let us hear what he sayes to remedy those defects I therein charged upon it.

Reply, p. 92.

In my Key of Two Hundred and Fifty Particulars, he excepts against Ten; Five of which he further explains, the other Five he opposes.

Rejoynder.

This looks unfair on my part, till my Reader be in∣formed, that not one of these Two Hundred and Fifty Particulars had so much as the Name of Man or Book, consequently no Page, how to find and read any of those things he affirms to be our Sense or Meaning, which is enough to discredit an Honester Writer then J. Faldo; so that what I did, was more then could be justly expected, much less challenged from me: how∣ever, I took Ten of the most suspicious. If he be dis∣proved in those, there is great Reason to suspect him about the Rest, till he hath produced more unquestion∣able Evidence. Of these he tells us, I explain one Five and oppose the other, Let us hear how he gives my Opposition, and what is his Replication.

Reply.

The first of these is in pag. 247. THE WILL OF THE FLESH. i. e. All that is chosen by Man, though he be thereto disposed by the Will of God revealed in the Scriptures. This W. P. calls False, and an Abominable and Notorious Untruth. I have proved at large their calling all things of a Religious Na∣ture

Page 392

by that Name which are not by Immediate Inspirati∣on: although the Scriptures have Precepts! and Exam∣ples, commanding and prescribing them.

Rejoynder.

If this be not to beg the Question, no Man ever did since the World was. He sayes, he hath proved it at large: and I say, I have refuted it at large; and what sayes he to that? no more then this, I have proved it at large, &c. Doth this Man look like an able Dispu∣tant? That he is not an honest one, take my An∣swer, by him omitted, with his own words faithfully cited.

J. F. pag. 69. THE WILL OF THE FLESH, i. e. All that is chosen by Man, though he be thereto disposed by the Will of God revealed in the Scripture.

W. P. This is False; Many things may be and are daily chosen by Man, that is not in the Will of the Flesh, nor by his own Will, much less when any should be disposed thereto by the Will of God revealed in the Scripture: An Abominable Un∣truth, and so Notorious, that I need say no more; only Challenge him to produce any of us (that is, any of our Sayings or VVritings) in Proof of his Exposition, if he can; otherwise be hath Slandered Us and Our Principles: For the Wll of the Flesh, is that which is quite Contrary to God, and inconsistent with the Good of the Creature.

How well he hath acquitted himself in point of Honesty, as well as Ability, first, in so maiming my Answer; and next, in saying nothing to it, is still

Page 393

referred to my Reader's Judgment, and so we pro∣ceed.

Reply, pag. 92.

The second is, pag. 249. CHRIST THE OFFERING, i. e. the Light within. W. P. calls this no Quakers Expression; that it is, take this Proof. We believe that Christ in us doth offer him∣self up a Living Sacrifice to God for us, Smith. Cat. pag. 64.

Rejoynder.

I still say, it is no Quaker's Expression; Though the Light that shineth in our Hearts be Christ the true Light; But that which I most insisted on, he hath (as he useth to do) quite left out; viz. for he would by this insinuate, that we deny Christ to be an Offering as in the Flesh, and that Body then offered up to be concer∣ned in our Belief of the Offering; but I do declare it to have been an Holy Offering, and such an one too, as was to be once for all; therefore let none receive his A∣buse of us for our Faith.

He that hath half an Eye may see, how poorly and meanly he hath shifted off the Weight of my Answer. Again,

Reply, p. 92.

The third, MEN-PLEASERS. Sense. They who comply with Men though in things not only Lawful, but also to Edification. This W. P. calls an arrant Lye; but the ground is, provided J. F. meaneth by Lawful unto Edification, what we do. I am not so sil∣ly to put such Bonds on the Truth.

Page 394

Rejoynder.

Indeed I never took him to be so Silly as Mis∣chievous in the Matter, not to use his own Phrase more—then Ignoramus; for instead of putting, Bonds on the Truth, he hath broken all Bonds of Truth; he pretends to give our Sense of Men-Pleasers, and substitutes his own in the room of it; and when we tell him, that if he means by Lawful and to Edification, what we do, he belies us; he confidently replies, I am not so silly to put such Bonds on the Truth; as if in rendring our Sense of words, he were not bound to keep to our Sense of them; how is it our Sense, if it be his, and not ours; and how tru∣ly ours, if it be putting Bonds on the Truth to render ours truly? But the Man's present Hardiness is be∣yond wondring at. To the next.

Reply, p. 92.

TRADITIONS OF MEN, i. e. The Scrip∣ture or written Word, p. 250. To this W. P. adds; But to say, they are the Traditions of Men, in the sense Christ forbid the Pharisaical Religion, God for∣bid: I had rather my Tongue were cut out of my Head. Oh base Man, to abuse an Innocent People thus grosly. I have already proved the Phrase to be the Quakers, viz. Smith's and Nailor's.

Rejoynder.

This answers it self: if he had taken off the Force of my Words, I might have bestowed a Rejoynder up∣on him; in the mean time, I have disproved his pre∣tended Proof, where I met with it; and what I find here, is but a meer begging of the Question. The

Page 395

fifth and last Particular he thus endeavours to vindicate, is this.

Reply, p. 93.

THE VAIL IS OVER THEM, p. 251. Their Sense I give of this, he presents the greater half of (which explains the other) by an &c. to blind the Reader, and make the Quakers believe, I deserve the Imputations of Malice and wicked Man, which it seems he is resolved afore hand to bestow on me.

Rejoynder

The Man is weary of his Work, as we may see, by the great haste he makes over every particular. No Man living that hath not read both our Books can make any Sense of this Hodge-Podge Section; that ever any Man should touch with Religious Controversie, that is so visibly defective in it! My Answer shall be my Re∣joynder; for, sure I am, he hath overlookt it, and therefore yet to be replyed to.

J. F. p. 89. THE VAIL IS OVER THEM, that is, sayes J. Faldo, the Belief of the Man Christ Jesus, which was of our Nature to be p. 251, 252. the Christ, &c.

W. P. Let this be the last (though several more might be observed) which at this time shall be conside∣red, in which we shall see that J. Faldo has done like himself, and the Man we have all along taken him to be. The Vail is over them, it is a Scripture-Phrase, 2 Cor. 3. 15. used by the Apostle to express the Dark∣ness and Ignorance that to that time remained over the

Page 395

Understanding of the Jews in reading the Law; and this Vail he makes us to interpret after this gross and absurd manner; namely, that the Vail is the Man Christ. Wicked Man! Did ever Quaker so irreve∣rently express himself? Give us his Name, or tell us in what Book we may find it. What greater Malice couldst thou have shown, then thus injustly to pervert the Scripture in our Name? abusing both: As if, because Christ's Flesh is called a Vail, and the Ig∣norance of the Jews a Vail, that therefore the Quakers must of Necessity mean by Vail in the first Sense, Vail in the second Sense; as if the Way to have the Vail rent, were to deny the Man Christ Jesus.

All this my Adversary thought fit to conceal, left his transcribing it into his Reply, would have made that Discovery of his Baseness, which he should never have been able by all his Shifts to palliate. I think I did not nick-name this Chapter, when I called it a Re∣presentation of his whole Reply: He ends as he begun, with Squibs, Puns, Evasions and Ill Language; for unless the Goodness of a Book be to be measured by the Paint of a Title-Page, or bare Writing reputed Replying, he might with more Sense and Reason have called it Froth, Folly and Fiction, then a Religious Vin∣dication, &c. No Man I ever read of hath exceeded the Bounds of Truth by obtruding Falshoods, and wan∣dred from the Dcorum of a fair Adversary, by unfair Citations and obvious Wrestings, betaken himself for Sanctuary to such silly Shifts, & School-boy Jeers, at the rate this Adversary hath done: And I have no Reason to Doubt of others being of the same Mind, since the World is not so destitute of Understanding, as to be cheated with his hocus-pocus Tricks, to take Tin for

Page 397

Silver, or Copper for Gold, or Froth for Substance, or Inventions for Texts, or Wrestings for Meanings, or Gibes and Taunts for pertinent Replies. I have hitherto abundantly satisfied my self concerning him, and I hope all that read me, both of him and his Essayes against the People called Quakers; If not, it ought not to be charged upon me as wanting good Will to do it: I was never more sedulous, and I think never more faithful in any such Affair. And to the End my frequent Complaint of his unfair Dealing may be further justified and confir∣med, and his Deportment in the whole of this Contro∣versie more exactly related, I intreat my Reader to con∣sider what I have now to tell him.

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