The annals of King James and King Charles the First ... containing a faithful history and impartial account of the great affairs of state, and transactions of parliaments in England from the tenth of King James MDCXII to the eighteenth of King Charles MDCXLII : wherein several material passages relating to the late civil wars (omitted in former histories) are made known.

Mr. Glanvile's Speech in a full Com∣mittee of both Houses of Parliament, 23 May, 1628. in the Painted-Chamber at Westminster.

MY Lords, I have in charge, from the Com∣mons House of Parliament, (whereof I am a Member) to express this day before your Lordships some part of their clear sense, touching one point that hath occurred in the great De∣bate, which hath so long depended in both Hou∣ses.

I shall not need many words to induce or state the question, which I am to handle in this free Conference. The subject matter of our meeting is well known to your Lordships, I will therefore only look so far back upon it, and so far recollect summarily the proceedings it hath had, as may be requisite to present clearly to your Lordships considerations, the nature and consequence of that particular wherein I must insist.

Your Lordships may be pleased to remember, how that the Commons in this Parliament have framed a Petition to be presented to his Majesty, a Petition of Right rightly composed, relating nothing but truth, desiring nothing but Justice; a Petition justly occasioned, a Petition necessary and fit for these times, a Petition founded upon solid and substantial grounds, the Laws and Sta∣tutes of this Realm, sure Rocks to build upon; a Petition bounded within due limits, and direct∣ed upon right ends, to vindicate some lawful and just Liberties of the free Subjects of this King∣dom, from the prejudice of violations past, and to secure them from future innovations.

And because my following Discourse must re∣flect chiefly, if not wholly upon the matter of this Petition, I shall hear crave leave shortly to open to your Lordships the distinct parts where∣of it doth consist, and those are four.

The first concerns Levies of Moneys, by way of Loans or otherwise, for his Majesties supply; declaring, that no man ought, and praying that no man hereafter be compelled to make or yield any Gift, Loan, Benevolence, Tax, or such like Charge, without common consent by Act of Parliament.

2. The second is concerning that Liberty of Person which rightfully belongs to the free Sub∣jects of this Realm, expressing it to be against the Tenure of the Laws and Statutes of the Land, that any Free-man should be imprisoned without cause shewed; and then reciting how this Liber∣ty, amongst ohers, hath lately been infringed, it concludeth with a just and necessary desire, for the better clearing and allowance of this Priviledge for the future.

3. The third declareth the unlawfulness of Bil∣letting or placing Soldiers or Marriners to sojourn in Free Subjects Houses against their wills, and prayeth remedy against that grievance.

4. The fourth and last aimeth at redress touch∣ing Commissions, to proceed to the Trial and Condemnation of Offenders, and causing them to be executed and put to death by the Law-Mar∣shal, in times and places, when and where, if by the Laws and Statutes of the Land they had deserved death, by the same Laws and Statutes also they might, and by none other ought to be adjudged and executed.

This Petition the careful House of Commons, not willing to omit any thing pertaining to their duties, or might advance their moderate and just ends, did heretofore offer up unto your Lord∣ships consideration, accompanied with an hum∣ble desire, That in your Nobleness and Justice you would be pleased to joyn with them in pre∣senting it to his Majesty, that so coming from the whole Body of the Realm, the Peers and People, to him that is the Head of both, our gra∣cious Sovereign, who must crown the Work, or else all our labour is in vain; it might by your Lordships concurrence and assistance, find the more easie passage, and obtain the better An∣swer.

Your Lordships, as your manner is in cases of so great importance, were pleased to debate and weigh it well, and thereupon you propounded to us some few amendments (as you termed them) by way of alteration, alledging, that they were only in matters of form, and not of substance; and that they were intended to none other end, but to sweeten the Petition, and make it the more passable with his Majesty.

In this the House of Commons cannot but ob∣serve that fair and good respect which your Lord∣ships have used in your proceedings with them, by your concluding or voting nothing in your House, until you had imparted it unto them; whereby our meetings about this business have been justly stiled Free Conferences, either party repairing hither disengaged to hear and weigh the others Reasons, and both Houses coming with a full intention, upon due consideration of all that can be said on either side, to joyn at last in resolving and acting that which shall be found most just and necessary for the honour and safety of his Majesty and the whole Kingdom.

And touching those propounded alterations, which were not many, your Lordships cannot but remember, that the House of Commons have yielded to an accommodation, or change of their Petition in two particulars, whereby they hope your Lordships have observed, as well as ye may, they have not been affected unto words or phra∣ses, nor overmuch abounding in their own sense; but rather willing to comply with your Lordships in all indifferent things.

For the rest of your proposed amendments, if we do not misconceive your Lordships, as we are confident we do not, your Lordships, of your selves, have been pleased to relinquish them with a new overture, for one only Clause to be added in the end or foot of the Petition, wherby the work of this day is reduced to one simple Head, whether that Clause shall be received or not?

This yielding of the Commons in part unto your Lordships, of other points by you some∣what insisted upon, giveth us great assurance, that our ends are one; and putteth us in hope, that, in conclusion, we shall concur, and pro∣ceed unanimously to seek the same ends, by the same means.

The Clause propounded by your Lordships to be added to the Petition, is this:

WE humbly present this Petition to your Majesty, not only with a care for preservation of Liberties, but with a due regard to leave intire that Sovereign Pow∣er wherewith your Majesty is intrusted for the Protection, Safety and Happiness of your People.

A Clause specious in shew, and smooth in words, but in effect and consequence most dan∣gerous, as I hope to make most evident; how∣ever, coming from your Lordships, the House of Commons took it into their considerations, as be∣came them, and apprehending upon the first De∣bate, that it threatned ruin to the whole Petition, they did heretofore deliver some Reasons to your Lordships, for which they then desired to be spa∣red from admitting it.

To these Reasons your Lordships offered some Answers at the last Meeting; which having been faithfully reported to our House, and there de∣bated, as was requisite for a business of such weight and importance, I must say truly to your Lordships, yet with due reverence to your Opi∣nions, the Commons are not satisfied with your Arguments; and therefore they have command∣ed me to recollect your Lordships Reasons for this Clause, and in a fair Reply to let you see the Causes why they differ from you in Opinion.

But before I come to handle the Particulars wherein we diffent from your Lordships, I will in the first place take notice yet a little further of that general wherein we all concur; which is, That we desire not (neither do your Lordships) to augment or dilate the Liberties and Priviledg∣es of the Subjects beyond the just and due Bounds; nor to incroach upon the Limits of his Majesties Prerogative Royal; and as in this your Lord∣ships, at the last Meeting, expressed clearly your own senses, so were your Lordships not mista∣ken in collecting the concurrent sense and mean∣ing of the House of Commons; they often have protested they do, and ever must protest, That these have been, and shall be the bounds of their desires, to demand and seek nothing, but that which may be fit for dutiful and loyal Subjects to ask, and for a gracious and just King to grant; for as they claim by Laws some Liberties for themselves, so do they acknowledge a Preroga∣tive, a high and just Prerogative belonging to the King, which they intend not to diminish. And now, my Lords, being assured, not by strained inferences, or obscure collections, but by the ex∣press and clear Declarations of both Houses, that our ends are the same; it were a miserable un∣happiness, if we should fail in finding out the means to accomplish our desires.

My Lords, the Heads of those particular Rea∣sons which you insisted upon the last day, were only these:

First, You told us, that the word [Leave] was of such nature, that it could give no new thing to his Majesty.

2. That no just exception could be taken to the words [Sovereign Power] for that as his Maje∣sty is a King, so he is a Sovereign; and as he is a Sovereign, so he hath Power.

3. That the Sovereign Power mentioned in this Clause, is not absolute, or indefinite, but limited and regulated by the Particle [That] and the word [Subsequent] which restrains it to be applied only for Protection, Safety, and Happiness of the People, whereby ye inferred, there could be no danger in the allowance of such Power.

4. That this Clause contained no more in sub∣stance, but the like expressions of our meanings in this Petition, which we had formerly signi∣fied unto his Majesty by the mouth of Mr. Speaker, that we no way intended to incroach upon his Majesties Sovereign Power or Prero∣gative.

5. That in our Petition we have used other words, and of larger extent touching our Liber∣ties, than are contained in the Statutes whereon it is grounded: In respect of which inlargement, it was fit to have some express, or implied Sa∣ving, or Narrative, Declaratory for the King's Sovereign Power, of which Narrative we alledge this Clause to be.

Lastly, Whereas the Commons, as a main Ar∣gument against the Clause, had much insisted up∣on this, that it was unprecedented, and unpar∣liamentary in a Petition from the Subject, to in∣sert a Saving for the Crown: your Lordships brought for instance to the contrary the two Sta∣tutes of the 25 E. 1. commonly called Confirma∣tio Chartarum, and 28 E. 1. known by the name of Articuli super Chartas; in both which Statutes there are Savings for the Kings.

Having thus reduced to your Lordships memo∣ries, the effects of your own reasons; I will now, with your Lordships favour, come to the points of our Reply, wherein I most humbly beseech your Lordships to weigh the Reasons which I shall present, not as the sense of my self, the weakest Member of our House, but as the genuine and true sense of the whole House of Commons, conceived in a business there debated with the greatest gra∣vity and solemnity, with the greatest concurrence of opinions and unanimity that ever was in any business maturely agitated in that House. I shall not peradventure follow the method of your Lordships recollected Reasons in my answering to them, nor labour to urge many Reasons. It is the desire of the Commons, that the weight of their Arguments should recompense (if need be) the smalness of their number. And, in conclu∣sion, when you have heard me through, I hope your Lordships shall be enabled to collect clearly out of the frame of what I shall deliver, that in some part or other of my discourse there is a full and satisfactory Answer, given to every particu∣lar Reason or Objection of your Lordships.

The Reasons that are now appointed to be presented to your Lordships, are of two kinds, Legal and Rational, of which these of the for∣mer sort are allotted to my charge; and the first of them is thus.

The Clause now under question, if it be ad∣ded to the Petition, then either it must refer, or relate unto it, or else not; if it have no such re∣ference, is it not clear that it is needless and su∣perfluous? and if it have such reference, is it not clear, that then it must needs have an opera∣tion upon the whole Petition, and upon all the parts of it?

We cannot think that your Lordships would offer us a vain thing, and therefore taking it for granted, that if it be added, it would refer to the Petition: let me beseech your Lordships to observe with me, and with the House of Com∣mons, what alteration and qualification of the same it will introduce.

The Petition of it self, simply, and without this Clause, declareth absolutely the Rights and Priviledges of the Subject, in divers points; and amongst the rest touching the Levies of Monies, by way of Loans or otherwise, for his Majesties Supply, That such Loans and other Charges of the like nature, by the Laws and Statutes of this Land, ought not to be made or laid with∣out common consent by Act of Parliament: But admit this Clause to be annexed with reference (to the Petition) and it must necessarily conclude and have this Exposition, That Loans and the

like Charges (true it is ordinarily) are against the Laws and Statutes of the Realm, unless they be warranted by Sovereign Power, and that they cannot be commanded or raised without assent of Parliament, unless it be by Sovereign Power: What were this but to admit a Sovereign power in the King above the Laws and Statutes of the Kingdom?

Another part of this Petition is, That the free Subjects of this Realm ought not to be imprison∣ed without cause shewed: But by this Clause a So∣vereign power will be admitted, and left en∣tire to his Majesty, sufficient to controll the force of Law, and to bring in this new and dan∣gerous Interpretation, That the free Subjects of this Realm ought not by Law to be impri∣soned without cause shewed, unless it be by Sove∣reign Power.

In a word, This Clause, if it should be admit∣ted, would take away the effect of every part of the Petition, and become destructive to the whole: for thence will be the Exposition touch∣ing the Billeting of Soldiers and Mariners in Free∣mens Houses against their wills; and thence will be the Exposition touching the Times and Places for Execution of the Law-Marshal, contrary to the Laws and Statutes of the Realm.

The scope of this Petition, as I have before observed, is not to amend our Case, but to re∣store us to the same state we were in before; whereas, if this Clause be received, in stead of mending the condition of the poor Subjects, whose Liberties of late have been miserably vio∣lated by some Ministers, we shall leave them worse than we found them; in stead of curing their wounds, we shall make them deeper. We have set bounds to our desires in this great business, whereof one is not to diminish the Prerogative of the King, by mounting too high; and if we bound our selves on the other side with this limit, not to abridge the lawful priviledges of the Sub∣ject, by descending beneath that which is meet, no man, we hope, can blame us.

My Lords, as there is mention made in the ad∣ditional Clause of Sovereign Power, so is there like∣wise of a Trust reposed in his Majesty, touching the use of Sovereign power.

The word Trust is of great latitude and large extent, and therefore ought to be well and wa∣rily applied and restrained, especially in the Case of a King: there is a Trust inseparably reposed in the Persons of the Kings of England, but that Trust is regulated by Law; for example, when Statutes are made to prohibit things not mala in se, but only mala quia prohibita, under certain forfeitures and penalties, to accrue to the King and to the Informers that shall sue for the breach of them: The Commons must, and ever will acknowledge a Regal and Sovereign Prerogative in the King, touching such Statutes, that it is in his Majesties absolute and undoubted power, to grant Dispensations to particular persons, with the Clauses of Non obstante, to do as they might have done before those Statutes, wherein his Majesty conferring grace and favour upon some, doth not do wrong to others; but there is a dif∣ference between those Statutes, and the Laws and Statutes whereon the Petition is grounded: by those Statutes the Subject hath no interest in the penalties, which are all the Fruit such Statutes can produce, until by Suit or Information com∣menced, he become intituled to the particular forfeitures, whereas the Laws and Statutes men∣tioned in our Petition, are of another nature; there shall your Lordships find us to rely upon the good old Statute called Magna Charta, which declareth and confirmeth the ancient Common Laws of the Liberties of England: There shall your Lordships also find us to insist upon divers other most material Statutes made in the time of King Edward the Third and Edward the Fourth, and other famous Kings, for explanation and ratification of the lawful Rights and Privi∣ledges, belonging to the Subjects of this Realm: Laws not inflicting penalties upon Offenders, in malis prohibitis; but Laws declarative or posi∣tive, conferring or confirming ipso facto, an in∣herent Right and Interest of Liberty and Freedom in the Subjects of this Realm, as their Birthrights and Inheritance descendable to their Heirs and Posterity; Statutes incorporate into the Body of the Common Law, over which (with reverence be it spoken) there is no Trust reposed in the Kings Sovereign Power, or Prerogative Royal to enable him to dispense with them, or to take from his Subjects that Birthright or Inheritance which they have in their Liberties, by virtue of the Common Law, and of these Sta∣tutes.

But if this Clause be added to our Petition, we shall then make a dangerous overture to con∣found this good destination touching what Sta∣tutes the King is trusted to controll by dispensa∣tions, and what not; and shall give an in••ima∣tion to posterity, as it were the opinion both of the Lords and Commons assembled in this Par∣liament, that there is a Trust reposed in the King, to lay aside by his Sovereign Power in some emer∣gent Cases, as well of the Common Law, and such Statutes as declare or ratifie the Subjects Li∣berty, or confer Interest upon their persons, as those other penal Statutes of such nature as I have mentioned before; which as we can by no means admit, so we believe assuredly, that it is far from the desire of our most Gracious Sove∣reign, to affect so vast a Trust, which being trans∣mitted to a Successor of a different temper, might enable him to alter the whole frame and fabrick of the Commonwealth, and to dissolve that Go∣vernment whereby this Kingdom hath flourished for so many years and ages, under his Majesties most Royal Ancestors and Predecessors.

Our next Reason is, that we hold it contrary to all course of Parliament, and absolutely re∣pugnant to the very nature of a Petition of Right, consisting of particulars, as ours doth, to clog it with a general Saving or Declaration, to the weakening of the Right demanded; and we are bold to renew with some confidence our Allegation, that there can be no Precedent shew∣ed of any such Clause in any such Petitions in times past.

I shall insist the longer upon this particular, and labour the more carefully to clear it, be∣cause your Lordships were pleased the last day to urge against us the Statutes of 25 and 28 of E. 1. as Arguments to prove the contrary, and seemed not to be satisfied with that which in this point we had affirmed. True it is, that in those Statutes there are such Savings as your Lord∣ships have observed; but I shall offer you a clear Answer to them, and to all other Savings of like nature that can be found in any Statutes whatsoever.

First, In the general, and then I shall apply particular Answers to the particulars of those 2 Statutes, whereby it will be most evident, that those examples can no ways suit with the matter

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now in hand. To this end it will be necessary, that we considerduly what that question is, which indeed concerneth a Petition, and not an Act of Parliament: This being well observed, by shew∣ing unto your Lordships the difference between a Petition for the Law, and the Law ordained upon such a Petition, and opening truly and per∣spicuously the course that was holden in framing of Statutes before 2 H. 5. different from that which ever since then hath been used, and is still in use amongst us, and by noting the times where∣in these Statutes were made, which was about one hundred years before 2 H. 5. besides the dif∣ferences between these Savings and this Clause; I doubt not but I shall give ample satisfaction to your Lordships, that the Commons, as well in this, as in all their other Reasons, have been most careful to rely upon nothing but that which is most true and pertinent.

Before the second year of King Henry the Fifth, the course was thus: When the Com∣mons were Suiters for a Law, either the Speaker of their House by word of mouth from them, the Lords House joyning with them, or by some Bill in writing, which was usually called their Petition, moved the King, to ordain Laws for the redress of such mischiefs or inconveniences as were found grievous unto the people.

To these Petitions the King made answer as he pleased, sometimes to part, sometimes to the whole, sometimes by denial, sometimes by assent, sometimes absolutely, and sometimes by qualification. Upon these Motions and Petitions, and the King's Answers to them, was the Law drawn up and ingrossed in the Statute-Roll to bind the Kingdom; but this inconvenience was found in this course, that oftentimes the Statutes thus framed, were against the sense and mean∣ing of the Commons, at whose desires they were ordained; and therefore in the 2 H. 5. finding that it tended to the violation of their Liberty and Freedom, whose Right it was, and ever had been, that no Law should be made with∣out their assent; they then exhibited a Petition to the King, declaring their Right in this parti∣cular, praying, that from thenceforth no Law might be made or ingrossed as Statutes, by ad∣ditions or diminutions to their Motions, or Peti∣tions, that should change their sense, or intent, without their assent; which was accordingly e∣stablished by Act of Parliament: ever since then the Right hath been as the use was before, that the King taketh the whole, or leaveth the whole of all Bills or Petitions, exhibited for the ob∣taining of Laws.

From this course, and from the time when first it became constant and settled, we conclude strongly, that it is no good Argument, because ye find Savings in Acts of Parliament before the second of H. 5. that before those Savings were in the Petitions that begat those Statutes; for if the Petitions for the two Loans so must insist∣ed upon (which Petitions, for any thing we know, are not now extant) were never so ab∣solute, yet might the King according to the usage of those times, insert the Savings in his Answers, which passing from thence into the Statute-Roll, do only give some little colour, but are not proof at all that the Petitions also were with Savings.

Thus much for the general: to come now to the particular Statute of 25 of Edw. 1. which was a confirmation of Magna Charta, with some provision for the better execution of it, as Common Law, which words are worth the no∣ting.

It is true, that Statute hath also a Clause to this effect, That the King or his Heirs from thenceforth should take no Aids, Taxes, or Pri∣ces of his Subjects, but by common Assent of all the Realm, saving the ancient Aids and Prices due and accustomed.

This Saving, if it were granted (which is not, nor cannot be proved) that it was as well in the Petition as in the Act: yet can it no way imply, that it is either fit or safe, that the Clause now in question should be added to our Petition: for the nature or office of a Saving, or Exception, is to exempt particulars out of a ge∣neral, and to ratifie the Rule in things not ex∣empted, but in no sort to weaken or destroy the general Rule it self.

The Body of that Law was against all Aids, and Taxes, and Prices in general, and was a confirmation of the Common Law, formerly de∣clared by Magna Charta; the Saving was only of Aids and Prices in particular, so well described and restrained by the words, Ancient and Accu∣stomed, that there could be no doubt what could be the clear meaning and extent of that Excepti∣on; for the King's Right to those ancient Aids, intended by that Statute to be saved to him, was well known in those days, and is not yet forgot∣ten.

These Aids were three, from the Kings Te∣nants by Knights Service, due by the Common Law, or general Custom of the Realm; Aid to ransome the King's Royal Person, if unhappily he should be taken Prisoner in the Wars; Aid to make the King's eldest Son a Knight, and Aid to marry the King's eldest daughter once, but no more; and that those were the only Aids intend∣ed to be saved to the Crown by that Statute, ap∣peareth in some clearness by the Charter of King John, dated the Runningmede the 15 of June, in the fifth year of his Reign, wherein they are enume∣rated with an exclusion of all other Aids whatso∣ever. Of this Charter I have here one of the Originals, whereon I beseech your Lordships to cast your eyes, and give me leave to read the ve∣ry words which concern this point. These words (my Lords) are thus: Nullum scutigium vel auxi∣lium ponatur in Regno nostro, nisi per Commune Con∣silium Regni nostri, nisi ad Corpus nostrum redimen∣dum, & primogenitum filium nostrum militem facien∣dum, & ad filiam nostram primogenitam semel mari∣tandam, & ad hoc non fiat nisi rationabile auxilium.

Touching Prices, the other thing excepted by this Statute, it is also of a particular Right to the Crown so well known, that it needeth no de∣scription, the King being in possession of it by every days usage.

It is to take one Tun of Wine before the Mast, and another behind the Mast, of every Ship bringing in above Twenty Tuns of Wine, and here discharge them by way of Merchandise.

But our Petition consisteth altogether of parti∣culars, to which if any general Saving, or words amounting to one, should be annexed, it cannot work to confirm things not excepted which are none, but to confound things included, which are all the parts of the Petition; and it must needs beget this dangerous Exposition, that the Rights and Liberties of the Subject, declared and de∣manded by this Petition, are not theirs absolutely, but sub modo, not to continue alwaies, but only to take place when the King is pleased not to exercise that Sovereign Power, wherewith thisClause admit∣ted

he is trusted for the protection, safety, and happiness of his people. And thus that Birth∣right and Inheritance, which we have in our Liberties, shall by our own assents, be turned into a meer Tenancy at will and sufferance.

Touching the Statute of 28 Edw. 1. Articidi super chartas, the scope of that Statute, among other things, being to provide for the better ob∣serving and maintaining of Magna Charta, hath in it nevertheless two Savings for the King; the one particular, as I take it, to preserve the anti∣ent Prices, due and accustomed, as of Wines, and other Goods; the other general, Seigniory of the Crown in all things.

To these two Savings, besides the former Answers, which may be for the most part ap∣plied to this Statute as well as to the former, I add these further Answers: The first of these two Savings, is of the same Prisage of Wines which is excepted in the 25 Edw. 1. but in some more clearness; for that here the word (Wines) is expresly annexed to the word (Prices) which I take for so much to be in Exposition of the for∣mer Law: And albeit these words (and of other Goods) be added, yet do I take it to be but a par∣ticular Saving, or exception, which being quali∣fied with the words (antient, due, and accustomed) is not very dangerous, nor can be understood of Prices or Levies upon Goods of all sorts at the King's will and pleasure, but only of the old and certain Customs upon Wool, Woollfels, and Leather, which were due to the Crown long be∣fore the making of this Statute.

For the latter of the two Savings in this Act, which is of the more unusual nature, and subject to the more exception; it is indeed general, and if we may believe the concurrent Relations of the Histories of those times, as well as those that are now Printed, as those that remain only in Manuscripts, it gave distaste from the beginning, and wrought no good effect, but produced such distempers and troubles in the State, as we wish may be buried in perpetual Oblivion; and that the like Saving in these and future times may ne∣ver breed the like disturbance: For from hence a rose a Jealousie, that Magna Charta, which de∣clared the antient Right of the Subject, and was an absolute Law in it self, being now confirm'd by a latter Act, with this addition of a general Sa∣ving; for the King's Right in all things by the Saving was weakned, and that made doubtful, which was clear before. But not to depart from our main ground, which is, that Savings in old Acts of Parliament, before 2 H. 5. are no proof that there were the like Savings in the Petitions; for those Acts, let me observe unto your Lord∣ships, and so leave this point, That albeit this Pe∣tition, whereon this Act of 28 Edw. 1. was grounded, be perished; yet hath it pleased God, that the very Frame and Context of the Act it self, as it is drawn up, and entred upon the Statute-Roll, and Printed in our Books, doth manifestly impart, that this Saving come in by the King's An∣swer, and was not in the original Petition of the Lords and Commons; for it cometh in at the end of the Act after the words (le Roy le vent) which commonly are the words of the Royal assent to an Act of Parliament. And though they be mixed and followed with other words, as though the King's Council, and the rest who were present at the making of this Ordnance, did intend the same Saving; yet is not that Conclusive, so long as by the form of those times, the King's Answer working upon the materials of the Petition, might be conceived by some to make the Law effectual, though varying from the frame of the Petition.

The next Reason which the Commons have commanded me to use, for which they still desire to be spared from adding this Clause to their Pe∣tition, is this: this offensive Law of 28 E. 1. which confirmed Magna Charta, with a Saving, rested not long in peace, for it gave not that sa∣tisfaction to the Lords or People, as was requi∣site they should have in a case so nearly concern∣ing them: And therefore about thirty three, or thirty four of the same King's Reign, a latter Act of Parliament was made, whereby it was enacted, That all men should have their Laws, and Liberties, and free Customs, as largely and wholly as they had used to have at any time, when they had them best; and if any Statutes had been made, or any Customs brought in to the contrary, that all such Statutes and Customs should be void.

This was the first Law which I call now to mind, that restored Magna Charta to the origi∣nal purity wherein it was first molded, albeit it hath since been confirmed above twenty times more by several Acts of Parliament, in the Reigns of divers most just and gracious Kings, who were most apprehensive of their Rights, and jealous of their Honours, and alwaies without Savings; so as if between 28 and 34 Edw. 1. Mag∣na Charta stood blemished with many Savings of the King's Rights or Seigniory, which might be conceived to be above the Law; that stain and blemish was long since taken away, and cleared by those many absolute Declarations and Confir∣mations of that excellent Law which followed in after Ages, and so it standeth at this day purged and exempted now from any such Saving whatso∣ever.

I beseech your Lordships therefore to observe the circumstance of time wherein we offer this Petition to be presented to your Lordships, and by us unto his Majesty: Do we offer it when Mag∣na Charta stands clogged with Saving? No, my Lords, but at this day when latter and better confirmations have vindicated and set free that Law from all exceptions; and shall we now an∣nex another and worse Saving to it, by an unne∣cessary Clause in that Petition, which we expect should have the fruits, and effects of a Law? Shall we our selves relinquish or adulterate that which cost our Ancestors such care and labour to purchase and refine? No, my Lords, but as we should hold our selves unhappy if we should not amend the wretched estate of the poor Subject, so let us hold it a wickedness to ampair it.

Whereas it was further urged by your Lord∣ships, That to insert this Clause into our Petiti∣on, would be no more than to do that again at your Lordships motion and request, which we had formerly done by the mouth of our Speaker; and that there is no cause why we should recede from that which so solemnly, we have professed. To this I answer and confess, it was then in our hearts, and so it is now, and shall be ever, not to in••roach on his Majesties Sovereign Power. But I beseech your Lordships to observe the different occasion and reference of that Protestation, and of this Clause.

That was a general Answer to a general Mes∣sage, which we received from his Majesty, warn∣ing us not to incroach upon his Prerogative; to which, like dutiful and loving Subjects, we an∣swered at full, according to the integrity of our own hearts; nor was there any danger in making

such an Answer to such a Message, nor could we answer more truly or more properly: But did that Answer extend to acknowledge a Sovereign Power in the King, above the Laws and Statutes mentioned in our Petition, or controul the Li∣berties of the Subject therein declared and de∣manded? No, my Lords, it hath no reference to any such particulars; and the same words which in some cases may be fit to be used, and were unmannerly to be omitted, cannot in other Cases be spoken but with impertinency at the least, if not with danger; I have formerly open∣ed my Reasons, proving the danger of this Clause, and am commanded to illustrate the im∣pertinency of adding it to the Petition by a fami∣liar Case, which was put into our House by a learned Gentleman, and of my own Robe: The Case is this, Two Mannors or Lordships lie ad∣joyning together, and perchance intermixed, so as there is some difficulty to discern the true bounds of either; as it may be touching the Con∣fines where the Liberty of the Subject, and the Prerogative of the Crown do border each upon the other; to the one of the Mannors the King hath clear right, and is in actual possession of it; but the other is the Subjects. The King being misinformed, that the Subject hath intruded up∣on his Majesties Mannor, asketh his Subject whe∣ther he doth enter upon his Majesties Mannor, or pretendeth any Title to it, or any part of it? The Subject being now justly occasioned, maketh an∣swer truly to the King, That he hath not intrud∣ed, nor will intrude upon his Majesties Mannor, nor doth make any Claim or Title to it, or any part of it. This Answer is proper and fair; nay, it were unmannerly and ill done of the Subject not to answer upon this occasion. Afterwards the King, upon colour of some double or single matter of Record, seizeth into his Highness hands, upon a pretended Title, the Subjects Man∣nor: The Subject then exhibiteth his Petition of Right, to his Majesty, to attain Restitution of his own Mannor, and therein layeth down Ti∣tle to his own Mannor only: Were it not im∣proper and absurd in this Case for him to tell the King, that he did not intend to make any Claim or Title to his Majesties Mannors, which is not questioned? Doubtless it were. This Case right∣ly applied, will fit our purpose well, and nota∣bly explain the nature of our Petition.

Why should we speak of leaving entire the King's Sovereign Power, whereon we incroach not, while we only seek to recover our own Liberties and Priviledges, which have been seized upon by some of the King's Ministers? If our Petition did trench actually upon his Majesties Preroga∣tive, would our saying that we intended it not, make the thing otherwise than the truth?

My Lords, there needeth no Protestation or Declaration to the contrary of that which we have not done; and to put in such a Clause, can∣not argue less than a fear in us, as if we had in∣vaded it; which we hold sacred, and are assured that we have not touched either in our words, or in our intentions. And touching your Lord∣ships observation upon the word (Leave) if it be not a proper word to give any new thing to the King, sure we are, it is a word dangerous in another sense; for it may amount, without all question, to acknowledge an old Right of Sove∣reign Power in his Majesty, above these Laws and Statutes whereon only our Liberties are founded; a Doctrine which we most humbly crave your Lordships leaves freely to protest against. And for your Lordships proffering, that some Saving should be requisite for preservation of his Maje∣sties Sovereign Power, in respect our Petition run∣neth in larger words than our Laws and Statutes whereon we ground it; what is this but a clear confession by your Lordships, that this Clause was intended by you to be that Saving? for other Saving than this, we find not tendred by you: And if it be such a Saving, how can it stand with your Lordships other Arguments, that it should be of no other effect than our former expression to his Majesty by the mouth of our Speaker? But I will not insist upon Collections of this kind; I will only shew you the Reasons of the Commons, why this Petition needeth no such saving, albeit the words of these Statutes be ex∣ceeded in the Declaratory part of our Petition: Those things that are within the equity, and true meaning of a Statute, are as good Laws as those which are contained in the express Letter, and therefore the Statutes of the 42 Edw. 3. 36 H. 3. Rot. Par. N. 12. and other the Statutes made in this time of King Edw. 3. for the Explanation of Magna Charta, which hath been so of∣ten vouched in this Parliament, though they differ in words from Magna Charta, had no Saving annexed to any of them, because they enacted nothing more than was contained in effect: In that good Law under the words, per legale judici∣um parium suorum, aut per legem t••rrae, which by these latter Laws are expounded to import, that none should be put to answer without Present∣ment, or matter of Record, or by due process, or Writ Original, and if otherwise, it should be void, and holden for error.

It hath not been yet shewn unto us from your Lordships, that we have in any of our Expressi∣ons or Applications strained or mis-applied any of the Laws or Statutes whereon we do insist, and we are very confident and well assured, that no such mistaking can be assigned in any point of our Petition now under question: if therefore it do not exceed the true sense and construction of Magna Charta in the subsequent Laws of Explana∣tion whereon it is grounded, what reason is there to add a Saving to this Petition, more than to those Laws? since we desire to transmit the fruits of these our labours to Posterity, not only for the justification of our selves in right of our pre∣sent, and their future Liberties; but also for a brave expression and perpetual testimony of that Grace and Justice, which we assure our selves we shall receive in his Majesties speedy and clear Answer. This is the thing we seek for, and this is the thing we hoped for, and this is the thing only will settle such an unity and confidence be∣twixt his Majesty and us, and raise such a cheer∣fulness in the hearts of all his loving Subjects, as will make us proceed unanimously, and with all expedition to supply him for his great occasions in such measure, and in such way as may make him safe at home, and feared abroad.

Notes

• Mr. Glan∣vile's Speech at a Commit∣tee of both Houses, concern∣ing Sove∣reign Power.