Baby-baptism meer babism, or, An answer to nobody in five words to every-body who finds himself concern'd in't by Samuel Fisher.

Re-Review.

Had Reason had the managing, representing and writing of this Argument her self, she would not have set it down in so weak, absurd and silly a manner, as Reasonlesse hath done it in in this place.

Reason never held such a thing yet as is asserted in this Minor, viz. that children cannot hear, much lesse understand, for abstract hearing from understanding, and take these two in sensu diviso (as you do here) and children can hear; but in sen∣su composito they cannot: it cannot rationally nor truly be said they cannot so much as hear, much lesse understand, but they cannot hear so as to understand, or they cannot hear understandingly, as those must that hear in order to believing,

and whose faith comes by hearing: a hearing tis true infants have, for they are not destitute of that sense, more then of seeing, and the rest: Auriculas Asini quis non habet? the same hearing, that an Asse, horse, or other bruit beast hath, which is only the sound of words, without the knowledge of the sense, who hath not, save he that is deaf but the hearing they have is neither such as Paul speaks of there, nor yet that heating you say they have, viz. an inward hearing of the voice of Christ, and the spirit opening their ears so as to make them learn things as adult ones do, that is a meer figment, of your own fancies: besides if they had such an internal hearing as you dream of, what were that to the matter in hand, or to the answering the objection, that is grounded upon the alledged Scripture, which speaks not of an inward but an outward hearing the word of God preached, as that by which faith is begotten, and without which it cannot come? out of which outward way and meanes if persons be brought to believe as usually as by it (and so it must needs be if little infants believe by the understand∣ing of certain secret whisperings and teachings within) the spirit would not have spoken of it, as such an unpossible case as he doth, in saying how can they be∣lieve on him of whom they have not heard? and how hear without a Prea∣cher?

But say you that is the usual means, by which faith is begotten in adult ones but the spirit is not tyed to meanes though we are, he works faith in little children without the outward hearing of the word.

Is it so Sirs, that the spirit is not tyed to work by means in little children, in the same cases, wherein he works by means in men, and women? I wonder then that you, whose opinion this is, should be so forgetful, as to teach quite con∣trary to your own tenet, for verily of all the men that are, I know none that li∣mit the spirit, and tie him to means in his dealings with little infants, like unto your selves.

As for us we own this position fully, and to a tittle viz. that what God acts at all for infants, he acts without meanes, as to their salvation, but as for your selves you own and disclaim this by turnes, according as it seems to serve your own turnes: so far as to hold it helpes to hold up your monstrous odd opinion of in∣fants faith, which hath no footing at all in Scripture, you inwardly entertain it, and outwardly proclaim it for undoubted truth: but when you find it makes a∣gainst you, then tis no other then a figment of the Anabaptists, for when we tell you there is no right to baptism without faith, but infants cannot believe, be∣cause faith comes by hearing understandingly the word preached, which infants cannot do then such of you as Rantize infants on such a sot∣tish supposition, as their having faith in themselves, excuse the matter thus viz.

The spirit is not tied to means, nor to the outward way of hearing the word, so but that though he begets men to faith that way, and by that means, yet he be∣gets infants to believe without it: and such of you as ashamed to assert that the infants themselves have faith, do Rantize them on the fathers faith without their own, excuse the matter thus viz.

The spirit is not bound to admit infants to baptism in that same way wherein he admits men, viz. the way of faith, but admits infants to have right to it with∣out that outward means of believing:

But when we tell you faith and baptism are the way wherein, and the outward means by which the spirit justifies and saves men and women, but without this outward way of faith and baptism, he can and doth save dying infants, and that the spirit is not tied to the same means of belief and baptism, in the justifying and saving infants through Christ, by which, and which onely he saves men, then you plainly disclaim what you proclaimd for truth before viz. the spirit is not tied to means in infants, but works without them in infants, though not in men, and hold

that he doth work by means among them so, that there is no hope to be had by parents of the salvation of their infants, out of the way of baptism, and no justi∣fication of them ou•…•… of the way of belief.

Thus you tie and unty, confine and lose the spirit at your pleasure, you give him leave, for your own lusts sake, either to approve of your baptism of children out of his own declared and onely approved way of faith, or if it be needfull as some of you think it is, for infants to believe in order to baptism, then to beget faith without that outward means of hearing the word, but though it is his own good will to justifie and save dying infants by Christ without the outward means of faith and baptism, there he is limitted, and cannot obtain your good will, he must give way to you to baptize infants, out of that ordinary way of faith, where∣in his will is that men shall be baptized: but he may not save infants out of the ordinary way of faith and baptism, wherein his will is that men by Christ shall be saved, no not by any means in the world.

Theres but a matter of four gross, false, unsound, and absurd assertions in this reasonless reply, which I must intreat you to be ashamed of before I leave it.

The first is that old piece of sing song, which is canted ore some three or four times before, but would be rather recanted, if you were not resolved on perseve∣rance in perverseness; wherein you tune it out as if faith in Christ, and the faculty of understanding were both so con-naturally and con-necessarily in believers in∣fants, and them onely, that we may as rationally and safely conclude neither to be in them, as not both.

This blue vain of artificial non-sense keeps its course well nigh throughout this whole discourse of yours against reason, so that every foot when reason alledges any thing thats clearly conclusive against the being of belief in Christ in believers infants, as namely their not knowing good and evil, their giving no testimony of faith when at years without instruction, nor upon instruction neither sometimes, so much as the adult children of unbelievers, their not having any faith at all for the most part, witnesse your successelessenesse in your preachings to your parishes to beget it, whereby it is evident, that either they never yet had it when ranti∣zed, or else have lost it if they had, their non inclinablenesse to believe (caeteris paribus) more then other peoples children, their uncapablenesse to hear the word with understanding, which is the only way and means, whereby the word declares faith to be given, and to be gotten, you answer all along (Cuckoo-like) in one tone, and thats this viz.

That by the same reason we may conclude against the faculty of understan∣ding in them, and against their having a reasonable soul, as if it were full as clear, and altogether as absurd to doubt that these infants have faith (which yet your selves confesse you cannot presume, what infants have, and what h•…•…ve not) as to doubt that they have the reasonable soul, which is notoriously known to every Novice in very nature to be in all mankind by nature without exception, and that so also, as essentially to difference them from other creatures.

The second remaining and remarkable absurdity is this viz. in that you most shamelessely assert that the faculty of understanding comes to persons by the same way and means, whereby justifying faith comes, and no other i. e. by hearing the word preached, for when reason argues against infants believing thus viz. faith comes by hearing the word of God, but infants cannot hear so as to understand the word of God preached, Ergo, not believe; you reply thus viz.

They might also conclude they have no faculty of understanding neither, for that i. e. the faculty of understanding comes by hearing i. e. as faith doth, O pro∣digious piece of priestly prudence! did ever any; but men minded to manifest their folly to all men, utter such a thing, that the faculty of understanding comes, as faith in Christ viz. by hearing the word of God, are not the faculties of the

soul of man, I say the faculties of it, i. e. the facultie of understanding, the faculty of the will so inseperable from it, so essential to it that a person is neither sooner nor longer a reasonable soul, then it hath these? I confesse that Plus notitiae, or acquisitio ul•…•…erioris intelligentiae, increase of knowledge, and the obtaining of more and more understanding may come by hearing, wherein the faculty of un∣derstanding being set on work, not onely exercises, but improves it self also, and comes to act it self on more intelligible objects then before, now newly discover∣ed to it, but that Ipsa facult as intelligendi, or ipse intellect us, the very faculty of understanding it self, which comes by nature, and generation, and is as essen∣tially in man, as the reasonable soul it self, doth come by hearing, is such a mess of matter, as was never heard of to this hour, nor can I conceive what kind of hearing any faculty of the soul can come by, sith the understanding and will must both be known to be in persons, and they thereby to be both reasonable, intel∣ligible and eligible creatures before they can be fit subjects to be spoken to, and before intelligible, or eligible objects can reasonably, seasonably, or any other wise then senslessely be propounded to them in preaching, neither, if at all they had such a monstrous kind of inward teaching from the spirit, as you talk of, can they have even that teaching, before they have the faculty of understanding, for that teaching must be at least after they have a being, but they are not in being sooner then the faculty of understanding hath a being in them: yea in order of time the sense of hearing it self is not in us before it.

And howbeit the Axiome be true, if rightly taken, Nil est in intellectu quod non prius fuerit in sensu, the understanding apprehends nothing, which some sense or other doth not first some way or other apprehend, yer still the faculty of understanding, whereby we conceive, and the will whereby we receive, begin to be in us at least as soon as the senses, whereby we outwardly perceive i. e. as we our selves begin to be.

Thirdly, other ridiculous silly stuff, that with the rest this section is stufft with, is this, in that you would seem to make the spirits converting, and begetting little children to faith to be some strange miraculous, and more marvellous piece of businesse then his converting and begetting faith in grown persons, because in in∣fants he uses not that ordinary means, whereby he converts men; without the outward preaching of the word (say you) he works faith in little children, his manner of working i. e. in little children is miraculous, and yet when all comes to all, instead of proving (as one might very well expect you should do) that the con∣version of infants is such a different, transcendent and wonderfull matter, ore that of men is, you confesse plainly in the very next words, that the conversion of e∣very soul, is a matter as miraculous as that: as also above p. 16. where your words are these, the renovation of a soul (meaning of any soules of either adult ones, or infants) is no lesse a miracle then that of the resurrection of the dead, which you mind us of here also, saying, enough hath been said to that before, and I say too much, unlesse it were bee•…•…ter, for they are both alike egregiously absurd, and full of falshood: as for the conversion of infants, at 7. or 8. 9. or 10. daies old, for then you sprinkle them upon that account, tis a figment, a meer Ens rationis, and yet I can hardly call it so, so little reason is in it, unlesse I may call a non entity so, or that which never hath a being any further then in the brains that broac hit, in a word nothing at all, and therefore no miraculous thing at all, for that which is not, is not a miracle: and for the conversion of men unto the faith of Christ, it is so far from being miraculous, that of the two, though indeed nei∣ther of them is properly a miracle, it is more to be admired rather, that no more persons are converted, and that considering the pains, patience, and goodnesse of God, that leads to repentance, the plain dispensations of himself to men in pro∣mises, and threats, and discoveries of the way of their peace, they should yet be so obstinate and unbelieving.

It was wonderful and marvellous indeed that the Jewes (for the most part) did not believe in the wildernesse, for all they saw so many of Gods wonderfull works; but no wonder that some few of them did: herein is a marvellous thing that ye know not whence Christ is, i. e. own him not by faith, as the sonne of God (saith the man Ioh. 9. 30.) and yet he hath opened mine eyes: twas not so marvelous that men believed in Christ, when they heard his words, and saw his works, but much rather because they believed not, Act. 13. 41. tis wonder∣ful when Gods works are not believed though declared, yea Christ himself is ther∣fore said to marvel at their unbelief, Mark 6. 6. tis not marvellous that some men see and accept of excellent things, when they are shewn and tendred to them, but that most men seeing do not see them, much lesse is a persons believing as great a miracle, as the resurrection of the body from the dead, for then twas as great a miracle that many Jewes believed on Christ, when they saw him raise Lazarus, as it was that he raised him from the dead, which thing, who ever doth believe, I believe him in that particular to be a marvelous unwise man for his labor, it be∣ing rather no lesse then marvellous stupidity, that when they saw Christs marvelous works, yet for all that they did not believe on him.

Besides if every conversion of a sinner to the faith be a miracle, the gif•…•… of work∣ing miracles is given to men as commonly in these daies, as in the Apostles, for how usual a thing is it now for men by the gift, that is in them, and given them from above as instruments under God (and no other were they that wrought mira∣cles) to convert sinners from the evil of their waies? but that cannot be granted by you however, who cry out that the working of miracles was an extraordinary gift, that hath ceased since the times of the Apostles; finally the conversion of souls of men to faith by the preaching of the word is that, which is effected ordinarily, and therefore is not miraculous, for ordinary and miraculous are clear contrary, so that they do rather 〈◊〉〈◊〉 invicem, then are capable to be denominated of one thing both at once, for an ordinary thing is not only that, which comes to passe usually, and frequently, but chiefly which is accomplished secundum ordi∣nem, according •…•…o a common order of meanes, and constant course of second causes, as faith in infants doth not, being wrought (if at all) without the outward means, as your selves confesse, and even thereupon, and in that very respect here called miraculous, and if I could ever see such a thing at all (as neither you nor I ever did) I should say it were a miracle indeed, to see an infant believe on him, of whom understandingly they never heard, but Miracles are such things, which as they are done more rarely then other things, so when they are done, tis (if not contra) yet at least praeter, extra, supra ordinem, either against, or besid•…•…s, or out of, or above the usual way, not keeping the accustomed use of means, nor pro∣cess of second causes.

Fourthly, whereas to back one absurdity with another you assert the work of the spirit, in the conversion of men, i. e. adult ones, which is by outward means, to be both ordinary and miraculous, I judge it to be as very a Bull as ever was conceived, and gendred in the braines, or calved out of the mouth of man.