Baby-baptism meer babism, or, An answer to nobody in five words to every-body who finds himself concern'd in't by Samuel Fisher.

About this Item

Title
Baby-baptism meer babism, or, An answer to nobody in five words to every-body who finds himself concern'd in't by Samuel Fisher.
Author
Fisher, Samuel, 1605-1665.
Publication
Lond. :: Printed by Henry Hills and are to be sold by Will. Larner and Richard Moon,
1653.
Rights/Permissions

To the extent possible under law, the Text Creation Partnership has waived all copyright and related or neighboring rights to this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above, according to the terms of the CC0 1.0 Public Domain Dedication (http://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/). This waiver does not extend to any page images or other supplementary files associated with this work, which may be protected by copyright or other license restrictions. Please go to http://www.textcreationpartnership.org/ for more information.

Subject terms
Baptism.
Society of Friends -- Apologetic works.
Infant baptism.
Cite this Item
"Baby-baptism meer babism, or, An answer to nobody in five words to every-body who finds himself concern'd in't by Samuel Fisher." In the digital collection Early English Books Online. https://name.umdl.umich.edu/A39573.0001.001. University of Michigan Library Digital Collections. Accessed May 8, 2024.

Pages

Reply.

To this which is another 〈◊〉〈◊〉 falsity, and connterseit resemblance, I reply thus, first that 〈◊〉〈◊〉 children might have the holy spirit, if God please extraordinarily to infuse it. I might then possibly not deny, nor dare I yet deny but that possibly they may, but it's more then God hath manifested if they have, to either us, or you: nor will this grant either prove the propriety of your Position, who down-rightly declare they have it, or warrant your baptizing them thereupon, so long as still 'tis unapparent to you that they have it: for first, à posse ad esse non valet consequentia; it follows not because it may be, therefore 'tis: yet such Country-clearing of things is seen now and then among you Countrey Clergy-men, that if from may-be to must-be, may not pass for good reason, there must be no more given at all; wit∣ness

Page 20

the yery last Argument us'd by the first opponent at this Ashsord Disputation, whereby to prove infants to have the spirit, who having urg'd the example of Iohn Baptist, (whose example is also hinted in your Review p. 16. of your Pamphlet) just before to this effect. viz. Iohn had the holy spirit from the womb, therefore children have it, and being answered to that thus, viz. Ex puris negativis, et parti∣cularibus nihil sequitur universale, claps in this consequence to close up his dis∣course with, viz. It doth not appear to you that children have not the spirit (as much as to say they may for ought you know have the holy spirit) therefore they have it. To whom 'twas repli'd, that it would not follow that I was at Canterbury such a day, because it did not appear to him that I was not: and this as I re∣member (though your Account doth very freely forget all this, but I hope you will remember to be asham'd on't) was the very period of that mans Disputation with me, saving what he added after in his recapitulatory moderation, and after that in other emergent conferences with me and others, to whose non-sequiturs, as I have in faithfulness set down what I returned then, so (pace vestrâ) I say thus much more now, viz. that if I should go about to prove from the Possibility of things to be so or so, or from their non-appearance to be not so, though not yet appearing to be so, that therefore they are so, viz. more worlds then one, or another world of men in the moon, or, as he from the particular case of Iohn Bap∣tist to other infants, so I should syllogize from the particular and extraordinary case of Balaams Ass to other creatures of that kind, viz. Balaams Ass, by a special power of God upon him, did speak and reprove the mad•…•…ess of the Prophet, therefore very Asses can speak plain enough to reprove the madness of the Priests, though I have learn'd Christ better then to record him as such a one for the like deduction, yet I know who have so well learn'd the Featlaean language, that in their Account I should have been an Ass for my labor. Secondly, and this I told you then too, but your Account had no mind to mention what makes against you, Tum d•…•…mum i. e. proprie et quoàd nos dicuntur res fieri cum incipiunt patefieri, then things as to us are when they appear and not before, and to talk de non entibus, et non apparentibus, is one as frivolous as the other: yet such lazy learning and lowzy logick is at Rome with the infatuated Pope, and such of his Creatures, as trouble themselves so much about Tyth, that they have no time to study Truth, nor understand either sense or reason, that whilst wise men indeed, whose wisdome is not as theirs is already turn'd into foolishnese, do argue from the Appearings of things to be to their being; from the evidence that they are to their existence, they magisterially impose things to be received as truth, because Ipse Dixit, and both assert them to be, and make men believe they appear plain enough so to be, when their say so shews them, though no inquisitive sincere self-denying Christian can in the word find either how or where: of but a very lit∣tle better stamp is your way of arguing here, who being hous'd by custom under a cloudy confidence that insants have the holy spirit, will needs have it appear whe∣ther it doth or no: but for my part it appears not yet to me; yea, I reply Se∣condly; to this part of your Report, that I did indeed then say as you have here truly related, that it could not be made appear that Infants have the holy spirit to the making of them subjects of baptism; yea, I testifie the same still that it can∣not, notwithstanding all your undertakings, which of what little force they are to such a purpose I shall try more at large when I handle your Account over a∣gain, not as an Account, but as your Argumentation for Infants having the holy spirit, and so right to baptism. Nevertheless, Thirdly, that I acknowledged any such thing as this in the least, that the Scriptures above named, did seem so much as to intimate such a matter as that infants might have the holy spirit, as it had been most contradictory to that which here you say I said immediately after it, and is most contrary to my Judgement to this present, so I deny it, disclaim it, and testifie again it, as another of your abominable abuses of your selves, my self

Page 21

and the world, into which you have feigned forth this Account, and as an opinion that neither then, or ever since, nor everbefore (since I found the way of truth) hath had the least entertainment within my bosom. And so I pass on to your other juggles, among which Nigro Carbone notandum est, this would not be let slip without a Selah in that some few lines below this you relate thus.

Do you have questions about this content? Need to report a problem? Please contact us.