Christianismus redivivus Christndom both un-christ'ned and new-christ'ned, or, that good old way of dipping and in-churching of men and women after faith and repentance professed, commonly (but not properly) called Anabaptism, vindicated ... : in five or six several systems containing a general answer ... : not onely a publick disputation for infant baptism managed by many ministers before thousands of people against this author ... : but also Mr. Baxters Scripture proofs are proved Scriptureless ... / by Samuel Fisher ...

Reply.

Sirs, why hath Satan filled your hearts to ly thus against the truth, and by filching out of the waie (purposelie as may be supposed) what was of most mo∣ment to the making out of my true meaning, to wrest, and represent my expressions and intentions in them as croslie and contradictorily to what they were intended, as yea, and nay are one unto the other? that children at three or four years old (as your selves then affirmed) may be instructed, I granted, and do still acknow∣ledge with you, but that I said at that age they might be baptized, upon that account of bare instruction unless apparently effectual to their true conversi•••• 〈◊〉〈◊〉 the faith, so that by Profession they give good ground to our consciences to be∣lieve that they believe, I here disclaim it, as either a mis-conception, or rather a meer conception, and birth of your own brains; and profess it in the sight of God, and all men to be that which (in the sence you here insert it in) came not so much as into my mind, much less out of my mouth at that time; and though I find you so un-ingenuous in your dealing, that I wonder how you can wish me to deal ingenouusly with you as you do, yet can I not conceive you to be so unju∣dicious as to conceive I confest as you have here accounted; since my speech, to all that were not dull of understanding, was most plain to a very contrary purpose and tended to shew the utter unwarrantableness of baptizing, at any age at all, whether in Non-age, Middle-age, or Old-age, unless it be found in the way of Faith, and therefore of baptizing anie Infants, in respect not only of their inca∣pacitie to believe, but much more to make profession of belief: I shall there∣fore give you, and the world too, wherebie yours must needs appear to be a jug∣gle, a more true Account of the Dilation that was then between us: on this wise it was: I confess I granted (for 'tis the verie truth, though not of a straws weight to your purpose) that by 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 Mat. 18.3. was meant children in Non-age, to which Christ saies his Disciples must be like, although bie the phrase v. 6. viz. 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. I asserted then, and see no occasion of saying otherwise to this hour, that he means his Disciples, whom he likens to the other, and not little ones in age, and bodily Stature; in proof of which I referr'd you to Mat. 10.42. where under the self same greek phraise viz. 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉; he expresses no other than his Disciples, there being no lit∣tle child then among them of which he could be imagined to speak: moreover I shewing how that 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 [whence 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉] did properly signifie not such an In∣fant as you sprinkle, which cannot speak (called infans, quasi non fans) but a child capable at least to be instructed (and so you are to seek still for Infant-bap∣tism) 'twas bolted out bie you that at three or four years old many began to be in∣structed even in principles of Religion, and that then at least they might be bap∣tized;

whereupon I replyed, that 'twas neither this nor that age, old or young, gave right, yea that no age could make a fit subject for Baptism, but that where∣in a person is apparently instructed to conversion, and that when so instructed they were to be baptized, whether old or young, so that if you could so effectually in∣struct children at three or four years of age as to bring them to make such profession of faith, as I could not but judge to proceed from the reality thereof within, I could then for my part baptize them; yet I thought it was a thing very seldome if ever at all visibly effected; to this effect, and much what in iisdem terminis did I then deliver my self, yet so willingly were you mistaken in my meaning, as down∣rightly to set me out for such a Childish Novice, as met you before thousands to main∣tain the unlawfulnes of Childrens Baptism, and held a Discourse of 6 hours to that end, and yet confest the lawfulness of it so soon as ever we had well begun: but Sirs, suppose I had confessed (as I did not) that children of three or four years old, because capable at that age to be instructed, might without re∣spect to the begetting of faith in them, by that instruction, even then, and there∣upon only be baptized; yet will you not at last be ashamed think you of that ig∣norant assertion of yours, namely, that infants of a day old are as capable of bap∣tism as they? for grant it should be granted you (as it is not) that bare instruction without any success thereof to conversion is a good ground to baptize persons on at three or four years of age, yet is it a ground whereupon to baptize Infants of a day old, that are not capable of so much as that bare instruction? a man may in much wisedom, and some hopes (if not of present yet) of future conversion thereby begin to indoctrinate his children at three or four years old, and instill the principles of truth into them, as preparative to their obeying it hereafter, and also to baptism it self in due time; yet I judge him as very a Child as his Child, that goes about to instruct, and baptize it so soon as tis born; yet after your own as∣sertion, by which you would make men believe I asserted that children of three or four years old are capable of instruction, and consequently of baptism so young, you second it with another more absurd, and false than the former, namely, that children of a day old are [as] capable of it as they: Say you so Sirs? are infants of a day old capable of Baptism, that cannot so much as be instructed in principles much less be begotten to the true Religion? or if you say you hold not their right to baptism from a capableness of instruction from which you plead the other, but upon other grounds, upon what grounds? I beseech you Sirs, upon what grounds? as you offered to shew them then so shew them now if you can, for none of the Arguments in your Account can possibly prove such a thing. What Infants of a day old? I'le saie it again that you may consider it, for sure you did not consi∣der what you said when you said it, what children of day old? fie for shame, Sirs had you said infants of eight daies old it might have held some proportion with that grand ground you go upon, viz. the Analogy between Baptism and Cir∣cumcision, but this opinion doth not cotten at all with that, for the subject of Circumcision, which you all say, though falsely, is one and the same with that of Baptism, was one of at least eight daies old, and an Infant of one day only was not a warrantable subject thereof, nor an infant of seven daies neither, though likely to die before the eighth; but as for you, though your chief plea for your timely untimely rantizing Infants be grounded upon that timely dispensation of Circumcision, yet, as if you had a mind to proclaim your selves be-blinded, so that you cannot walk by Christs Right rules, nor your own wrong ones neither, you take the liberty to out-stand, or anticipate the eighth day at your pleasure: hence the birth day is as warrantable with you, as the eight, yea, in case of im∣minent danger of death (in which case circumcision might not alter) ti's a learned question among some Infant-sprinklers, whether the mid-wife may not sprinkle it before its born, i. e. while is hangs yet between the womb, and the world; but

too soon is too soon in all conscience) and again when it fits better with your plum-cake occasions, the tenth, twelfth, or eight and twentyth day must be as acceptable to God as the eighth, yea, when it seems good to the wisdom of the Church, i. e. the Clergy, it may be deferred for no less than two or three hun∣dred daies together, witness the old Rubrik, which saith, that in old time bap∣tism was not ministered but at two times in the year, viz. at Easter and Whit∣sontide, but that custome being grown out of use for many considerations (I know not any but the Clergies good will, and pleasure) cannot now well be restored: Thus you ride people to and fro as you lift, and run manie miles from your own rules as well as Christs, for if Circumcision be your Rule for the time of Baptisms administration, keep punctually to the particular time of the eighth day, as well as to the generall time of Infancy, or else (you may tell me the eighth day is a cir∣cumstance not to be regarded, whilst I tell you 'tis such a substance that Moses was like to be slain for overslipping it, yet) by your favour, Sirs, and by the same reason that you take an inch, i'le take an ell, yea if you can acceptably go a fin∣gers bredth besides the rule of Circumcision, I may go an hundred furlongs, and by the same Authoritie that you delay the Dispensation beyond the eighth, to the tenth, twelft, or the hundreth day, I may delay it (unless belief withall the heart do ingage to it before) to the ten thousandth day or more, nor can you question me why do you thus?

Secondly, whereas for my undertaking to rectifie you in your gross misappre∣hension, and reduce you from the misconstruction I saw you make of my speech (which leaves you without excuse in this rude recording) you record me as recalling what I said, I protest against that as another of your figments, which you had need both to recant, and repent of: there was but one thing recalled all that day that I know of, viz. that Iohn Baptist spake so soon as he came out of the womb; that being rashly uttered by one in a Black coat was indeed as readily re∣called: as for my self what I said then, I was so far from recalling, that i'le give you the advantage of saying the same over again: hear therefore you deaf that you may understand, bring me the children of three or four years old not instruct∣ed only (for so the wickedst heathen may be) but instructed to conversion, and profession of faith (not verbal onely (for a Parret may be taught to prate) but real (as may seem at least) and to desire baptism in Christs name) yea more,* 1.1 bring me the Infants of three or four daies old thus truly discipled, and blame me for ever if I be not as forward to baptize them, as your selves are to rantize them undiscipled. This is the sense I then spake in, the Lord knows my heart to whom I appeal ultimately to judge between us. I have spoken it thus over again, you have now my mind more fully among you, mistake it not, but take it dexterously and make your best on't,

Notes

• * 1.1

  Expedias per∣s••ta co suum 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 picas∣que doce as ver∣ba nestra cana∣ri.