Christianismus redivivus Christndom both un-christ'ned and new-christ'ned, or, that good old way of dipping and in-churching of men and women after faith and repentance professed, commonly (but not properly) called Anabaptism, vindicated ... : in five or six several systems containing a general answer ... : not onely a publick disputation for infant baptism managed by many ministers before thousands of people against this author ... : but also Mr. Baxters Scripture proofs are proved Scriptureless ... / by Samuel Fisher ...

Baptist.

That which best signifyes is best to be done, and forasmuch as t••at best signi∣fies, that both signifies and resembles the quantity of the Element, that manner of action which best resembles is best and fittest to be used undoubtedly in baptism, in which Christ hath undoubtedly appointed what is best, whereupon if Mr. Baxter grant (or if he do not he cannot deny) that overwhelming best resembles, and consequently best signifyes our burial with Christ, he never will give good rea∣son whilest he breathes upon this earth, why washing all over (as he calls it) should not be used; as for that reason that is given against it here by himself at second hand, and by Mr. Cook at first, of whom he borrowes well nigh every bit of what he saies against a totall dipping, save only his fearful, fairfowl flourishes up∣on it, viz.

• ...First that the measure of water, and manner of washing the whole body is not appointed,
• ...Secondly, That then in the Supper there must be a eating to the full,
• Thirdly, That a little may serve as well as much, theres little weight as far as I see in any part of it.

The first hath so little reason, that it hath no truth in it for Christ hath appoin∣ted vertually in some measure the measure of water in that his very appointment of the manner of washing in the way of a totall overwhelming, as appears before in the ••ignification of the word Baptize, which signifies a dipping or overwhelm∣ing of that subject, that is particularly denominated to be washed by it; whe∣ther it be the whole man, or but a part of him; if the tip of the finger only be said truly to be baptized, then that tip must be totally washed; if the hands be de∣nominated, without a figure to be baptized, then the hands at least are total∣ly washed; if the man be the subject properly predicated to be baptized, then that man also must be totally washed; but in Scripture the man is required, and ap∣pointed to be baptized; to the performance of which such a measure of water is consequently appointed, as may be at least sufficient for that end, and required it is that it be neither so little that it cannot totally wash him, nor yet so much as must necessarily drowne him, as an ocean would, but a proportion suitable to that purpose.

To the second I might answer, that there is not altogether the same reason, for such a totall filling, and swilling in the Supper, as there is for a totall swilling in baptism; sith the main and radical matter, that is to be resembled in baptism is Christs death, burial and resurrection, but the radical thing, that is resembled in that action of our eating and drinking in the Supper, is our faith, whereby we feed upon Christ, and accept him each to our selves as our Redeemer, without

which that he is a Redeemer will do us no good, for faith▪ is the appropriating of of Christ the bread of life, each to our selves, who is set before us in common in the whole loaf, and as it will do a man no good to have bread and wine before him, which are elements most refreshing, unless he take them, and eat and drink, so neither us to see a Saviour set before us, unlesse we take of his salvation to our selves.

This is that which is most immediately signifyed, and particularly represented in the Supper, which businesse of bare taking Christ Jesus to our selves by faith, is represented truly in taking never so little, but a burial and resurrection not in never so little water; a few crumbs of bread and sips of wine taken do rep••esent a taking of Christ in the Supper, but not so a few drops of water tiffled upon the face Christs death, buriall and resurrection: and fith you say the refreshment of the soul by the fullnesse is represented in our eating and drinking in the Supper, and yet that eating and drinking a little bread and wine not to fulness is enough in the supper to represent that, and so why not a little water, not deep enough to dip and bury in, applyed to us in baptism, the burial and resurrection of Christ?

I might answer that the refreshment of the soul by Christ is represented rather in the elements, then in the action of either, eating or drinking in the supper, by the bread which is a strengthner of mans heart, and wine which is for them of a sor∣rowful heart, and therefore there might not be altogether the need of representing our refreshing by eating and drinking much, at least so much as Mr. Cook and Mr. Ba. talkes of, viz. to the filling and glutting of our selves to the top as long as head and stomack will hold, that action would yield but a small resemblance of a refreshment, and were enough to make a sound man sick, but there is a rea∣son in all things, and a difference as we say between staring, and stark mad: thus I say I might answer, and cut off your arguing for analogy, and a small portion of the element in baptism, as well as in the supper, between which there is not fully the same reason.

But verily I am of your mind that a refreshment of the soul by the fulnesse of Christ is very fit to be resembled and represented by the quantity of the elements, as well as by the elements in the supper also; and yet am I not of your mind that so little, as you ordinarily use, is so very fit as you dream it is to represent it, but of the mind rather that as you are in your baptism viz. not out of your ele∣ment, as you should be if you were baptized in truth by submersion, or putting clear under water, but out in your element rather i. e. in the measure of your wa∣ter, which is not adaequate to the true manner of washing, so you are also in the supper too poor in your provision of elements, for that which is the true and full purport of that sacred service; you have got together many littles to prove that so lit∣tle element as you use both in baptism and supper may do as well, if not better, then more, all which are very little to the purpose, a little may signifie as well as much saies Mr. Baxter, a clod of earth, a pepper corn: but what then? we are to sig∣nifie with resemblance, or else a sacrament is no sacrament, saith Austin, but saies Mr. Cook a little may resemble the washing, and the refreshing of the soul may well be resembled by a sprinkling of a little water, eating and drinking a little bread and wine, in circumcision a little skinne was cut off; what then?

First it was as much as God required to be cut off.

Secondly it was so much as made it circumcision.

Thirdly, as much as truly and clearly resembled the circumcision of the heart, which is signified, but such is not (for all Mr. Cooks conceit) that little water you sprinkle, nor yet that little becad and wine you distribute, it is neither so much as represents clearly the things signified, which are not onely the clearing of the soul by Christs dainties in the supper, which should be resembled by eating and drink∣ing it, but some more chearing and refreshing of the body, then that which is com∣monly in your communions;

But alas the burial and resurrection of Christ, in baptism should be resembled by submersion, and emersion; and therefore to answer Mr. Cook in the words of Mr. Cook, the outward elements of water bread and wine are for spirri∣tual use, and to signifie spiritual things, so that if there be the truth of things [but what I wonder if there be not (as I am sure in Rantism there is not) the truth of baptism] the quantity is not to be respected further then is sufficient for its end, namely to represent the spiritual grace [so far then it seemes it must be, and that is enough to confute Mr. Cooks Rantism, for it represents not the spiritual grace] and that it be neither so little as not clearly to represent it) [yet so little is the quantity that you use, not of water onely in the one, but of bread and wine also in the o∣ther ordinarily] nor so much as to take off the heart from the spiritual to the corporal thing] content with all in my heart that it be not too much on this hand, provided that it be not too litle one the other, so but that it may reach to resemble the things signified, for the whole vertue of baptism lying in signification per ab∣lutionem i. e. per submersionem, per sepelitionem in aquâ, and the vertue of the supper much what in signification per recreationem, per representationem plenitu∣dinis: non multum interest, quantum quis{que} abluatur, modo obruatur, submer∣gatur, sepeliatur, nec quantum quis{que} comedat, modo comedendo repleatur.]

To conclude Sirs you are too short in that point of the outward element in the supper as well as bapti••m, in the Church of Corinth there was so much bread and wine that if some hungred, others were drunken, as neither of these should have been, so the latter could not have been, but that the use then was to have more abundance of the elements, then you have in your parish passeovers, wherein the people are past over with so poor a pittance, that all may in likelihood be hungry enough, but none at all very easily drunken, such niggardly snips and sups; not at Rome onely, where the Priests expounding Christ as speaking to themselves, when of the wine, saying drink ye all this, and not to the people, saying drink ye all of this, do impropriate the liquor wholly to themselves, but in England also do the priests supp, I should say dine (for it is done at noon dayes with them) their poor patient dependant people at the Lords table.

Theres one thing among Mr. Baxters bedrow which I had almost quite past o∣ver without any answer, which if I had you would have said it is like I willingly forgat it; Christ told Peter saith he that the washing of his feet was enough to clense all; Mr. Blake gives us a touch here too through the persons of a popish par∣ty p. 10. of Peters mind saith he not to be washed in one part onely, which say some from the same place also viz. Iohn 13.9.10. is as sufficient as the wash∣of the whole.

As if that Scripture even therefore because it speaks of washing, doth speak of this ordinance of baptism: either it doth Sirs in your opinion or it doth not, if not, to what purpose do you quibble upon it here? if you say it doth, I much mar∣vel why you think so, but more if in earnest you argue from it that a man need be baptized but in part onely, sith you all confesse practically that the face and head, but not the feet are the subject of baptism▪ yea verily you had as good have said Pi∣late took water and washed his hands before the multitude, therefore the ordi∣nance of baptism is no total dipping, for the story of Christs washing Peters feet speaks no more of the ordinance of baptism, then the other does; yea it is most e∣vident that the washing of the disciples feet was clear to another end and use viz. not to baptize them, much lesse to shew how they should baptize others, but meerly to teach them humility one toward another, and to condescend to the lowest offices that could be for loves sake to each other; this Christ expressed himself to be the direct meaning of what he did, v. 12.13.14.15. &c. after he had washed their feet he saies to them: know you what I have done to you? you call me Lord and master, you say well, so I am; if I your Lord and Master have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one anothers feet, for I have given you an example that ye

should do as I have done unto you, this was Christs end therefore to learn them hu∣mility, which was done as well in washing their feet onely, as all the body, yea the feet only indeed, because the feet are the viler parts of the body, for us to stoop to wash, whereby to expresse our humility each to other, in which respect and no other it is that when Peter yet ignorant ••o what Christ was about to do, cryed out Lord my hands also and my head, Christ replies, that he that is washed, i. e. not in Baptism, but in this washing he was then about need not more i. e. ad rem substratam then to wash his feet, but is clean e∣very whit, i. e. as much as he need be to this intent, for which I now am wash∣ing you: besides that the washing of the feet only is not a sufficient washing to de∣nominate a man baptized according to Christs ordinance, is evident by the Eu∣nuch, that went into the water, and so was washed in his feet, and yet not bap∣tized for all that according to Christs will, till Philip had baptiz'd or dipt him there: it is a sign you are put hard to your shifts, when you use such impertinencies to help you as these.