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But saving the over apprehensive powers of that judicious Gentleman, who ere it was that heard me, he most grossely abuses▪ in it himself and me, in reporting such a thing to you, as also you abuse both him and me, and the world too in re∣porting it as from him to the world (yet you have done him honour so farre I confesse as to conceal his name, or else you had done him a greater spite indeed)
himself in shewing such shallowness of capacity in hearing, as scarcely calls for that worthy title of judicious Gentleman, and me in not only mistaking, but mistelling his mistake also to you, who print out his mistake to all the world: for such do∣ctrine as this, That all that did believe, and were not dipt should be damned, did never yet fall from my mouth, nor did ere take place, or was ever owned for truth in my mind: yea howbeit I summon you, or any else to shew me in the word (not taken by snatches, but in the whole intent, and scope of it) Gods promise of salvation by Christ without obedience to him both in repentance, faith and baptism too, to those, of whom all these things are required, I say it again (least you mistake me as speaking of infants, for they being capable of none of these, of them to salvation none of these are required of whom all these are requir∣ed, since all those that obey not the Gospel, in what part soever of it it is manifested to them, shall be damned, 2 Thes. 1.7, 8, 9—2.10, 11, 12. Howbeit, I say I wish you to advise how safely you, that know it to be your duty, may neglect it, and how groundedly you can assure your selves, that you do believe at all in truth, if you receive not the love of every title of Christs truth, so as wherein it appears to you to imbrace and obey it, yet I am well assured I never utterd the o∣ther, viz. that all that did believe, and were not dipt should be damned, nor is it now, nor ever was it my judgement to this hour; of which for the worlds and your satisfaction, sith I have been very often charged, and that twice or thrice in publique places where I have preacht, so to hold, I shall here give this brief account.
I judge that all persons in the world (meaning not infants, but such as are at years of discretion, to whom the Gospell comes in any measure) are of some or other of these three sorts, viz.
Now I suppose we all hold the first sort, viz. professed prophane ones, so liv∣ing so dying, will be damned, and unless we will deny the Scriptures, we must needs hold the second sort, whose professed faith is a dead faith shall not be sav∣ed, for what doth it profit if a man say he hath faith Jam. 2.14. and have not works, &c. whereby onely faith is proved to be true indeed as it is professed, can that faith save him? as for the third sort, viz true believers, I subdivide them in my thoughts into 2 ranks.
First, such as believing in Christ truly for salvation, believe also baptism in its true way of dispensation, and not rantism, to be Christs will concerning them, and these I am certain will submit accordingly and obey him in it, for such as say they have faith, and live in rebellion to what parts of Christs will they know they ought to obey him in, have not faith to salvation what ever they say. Or
Secondly, such as believing in Christ, neither see nor believe, nor practise baptism in that only true way wherin we dispense it, and all this meerly for want of meanes to discover it to them, or by means of the invincible ignorance of their times, and ages wherein they lived, and wherein, according to the will of God permitting it so to be, the mind of God in that thing hath been hid, and, as we know it hath in many more things for ages and generations together, remained undiscovered, which times of ignorance I believe God much winked at, in those who sincerely owned truth, and obeyed it so far as it then appeared, and as they saw it, though now he commands all men to return from Babylon in these daies of light, wherein men may see, but that they will not, yea many prophets, and righteous ones in the height of Popery, have desired to see, and hear what we do, or may do, yet could not, the Scriptures lying lockt up as unlawful well-nigh for any to con∣sult
with, therefore look you to it who say you do not this or that because you see it not, for I testify to you that it is a time wherein the true light shineth so cleerly, that men need not erre, if they love not darkenesse more then light because their deeds are evil. And the same measure of light and reformation and truth, which might have denominated you reformists, had you lived 100 years ago, will not serve to denominate you so now, since the smoak that darkned the sun, and the aire, is much more perfectly dispelled then in that twilight, in this form, I mean of such as could not see, not because they would not, but because it shone not, do I rank all the Martyrs, and those honest men, whom you do••e on as Fathers, and all true professors and believers for many hundreds of years together, who witnessed to truth, and suffered for it too, so far as it did appear to them in their times, to this sort of men I am more charitable and tender in my censures then you can possibly prove your selves to be, and so I am also to infants, for all your prate of pleading for them against our cruelties, neither doth any doctrine that e∣ver I delivered damn any of these to the pit of hell, as your doctrine of so rigid, ha••sh, fierce and cruel rejection of all infants from salvation, save those of be∣lievers, doth damn an hundred to one of them, that dy in innocent infancy: and where it should be that that Gentleman told you I preacht that doctrine, That all such as believe, and yet are not dipped shall be damned I know not, but this I know, that I was ever so far from conceiving, much more expressing any such thing that where I speak in publique of that point of baptism, in prevention of that prejudice, and opinion of our harshness, which your publike balling at us bege••s in your hearers, I commonly deliver my self to the contrary.
But now Sirs, as for your selves, who so falsely father this doctrine upon me as mine, and that with such abhorrency of both it, and me for it, and with such patheticall expressions of your zeal against it, as that you even set your teeth an edge as it were, and whet the spirits of all men to abhor us for it, if they had nothing in all the world against us, in point of doctrine but that, & not to let their souls intermeddle with our secrets, whose rage is so fierce, and whose wrath is so cru∣el, what if I go no further then your own Account of the Disputation at Ashford, to prove that your selves are the men that hold this doctrine, that though persons believe, yet if they be not baptized they must be damned, and not we? are you not then condemned out of your own mouths to perpetual abhorring? now there∣fore Quid rides? de te fabula narratur, thou O Accountant art the man of whom this tale may be told more truly then of us, who hast plotted so well, as to plat a whip here for thy own back: yea I appeal to the whole world of wise men ••o judge, whether I do not bring proof out of your own paper, if your true Ac∣count be yours, and be as true an Account of your judgements as tis pretended to be of your disputation, that it is your own judgement, and not mine, that bap∣tism is so necessary to salvation, that even such as believe, and yet are denyed to be baptized, notwithstanding that very belief of theirs shall be damned: go bur back with me therefore to the 7th page of your Pamphlet, and compare it with what you say in the third and fourth pages concerning childrens believing, and see what an Account you have there given of your own minds in this mat∣ter.
In the fourth you conclude, from the like in the children of the Iewes, that the children of beli••ving parents have faith, in the third page you conclude from Mat. 18.6. that little ones do believe, now look but in the seventh page, and let all the world judge, whether you do not there say of these same persons, viz. of the infants of believing parents, of whom you asserted before they were believers, that if they may not be baptized, and thats none of the childrens fault neither as the neglect of baptism is in men, it destroies the hope that the parents can have of their salvation, for it leaves them in no better condition, say you, then Turks and Pagans, and their children: the salvation of whom is with you
as hopeless, for ought I see, as of the Devills: which things let that or any ju∣dicious Gentleman spel, and put together and see if it be not tantamount to such a testimony as this, viz- that those that believe, and a••e not baptized shall be damned, for to be damned, and not saved are all one, and as for children of Tu••ks and Pagans dying in infancy, you record it it as a monstrous thing that I should say, that for ought I knew they might be saved; yea by the reply that was made to that speech of mine by one who said perhaps I thought the devills might be saved, it appears that your party thinks it as possible that the devils may be saved, as soon as the dying infants of Turks and Pagans: and yet of the chil∣dren of believing parents, who in your opinion do also believe themselves, you say the opinion of the Anabaptists, which denyeth baptism to little children, puts the parents out of hopes of their salvation, und makes them to be in no better condi∣tion then Turks and Pagans: yea you say believing parents may say of their chil∣dren, that dy without baptism, what hopes of our child, who is in no better condition, then the children of infidels? and really they say true if the state of infidels dying infants be so damnable, as you saie it is: is it you or we, Sirs, whose doctrine damnes believers, if they be not baptized?
Ile conclude this matter with you, much what in your own words, and form of speech.
Christ shuts out only unbelievers from heaven, whosoever believeth not shall and be damned, this doctrine of yours, that little infants are believers, and yet out of all hopes of being saved, if not baptized, shuts out believers if they be not baptized, i e. if they be not rantiz'd (for that is the best baptism you use) and by consequence if your doctrine, which you delivered in this Account (as judicious Gentlemen that read it will affirm) be true, that even believers not baptized shall be damned, you had need baptize your believing infants indeed, i. e. to do more then cris crosse two or three drops of water on their faces, or else (for all your plea for their baptizing on pain of their damnation) theyl be dam∣n••d, if they be no more then sprinkled, for want of true baptism when all is done: for that is not so much as the Ceremony it self in truth, which you are so hot for without the substance, yet would I not have you be an abhorring for all this, but pittyed and prayed for rather▪ that you may in time for this and all other your follies, and false accusations of others, of things whereof you are more guilty your selves, abhor your selves in dust and ashes, that you may not be an abhor∣ring (as he is more then half blind that doth not see who will be once) amongst both God and men Rev. 17.16. Rev. 19.2. And thus I have done with your first Argument.