A blow at the serpent; or a gentle answer from Madiston prison to appease wrath advancing it self against truth and peace at Rochester. Together with the work of four daies disputes, in the Cathedral of Rochester, in the Countie of Kent, betweene several ministers, and Richard Coppin, preacher there, to whom very many people frequentlie came to hear, and much rejoyced at the way of truth and peace he preached, at the same whereof the ministers in those parts began to ring in their pulpits, saying, this man blasphemeth, ... Whereupon arose the disputes, at which were some magistrates, some officers, and souldiers, peaceable and well-minded, and very many people from all parts adjacent, before whom the truth was confirm'd and maintained. The whole matter written by the hearers, on both sides. Published for the confirmation and comfort of all such as receive the truth in the love of it. By Richard Coppin, now in Maidston Prison for the witness of Jesus. Twenty five articles since brought against him by the ministers, as blasphemie, and his answers to them, how he was

CHAP. V. Christ coming in the Clouds, the place and manner of his Throne, how he as a man, body, flesh, and bones, is not in a place above the Skies, that the Christ of God is no where contained.

FRench.

But Christ shall come in flaming fire at the last day, at the end of the world, for he shall descend from heaven in the Clouds, with a shout, with the voice of the Arch-Angel, at the sound of a Trumpet, and he shall sit upon a Throne, and before him shall be gathered all Nations.

Coppin.

All this I know, and see to be now, for now is he up∣on his Throne, and have all Nations before him, and ever had, though you may not see it till it be manifest in you, therefore you should define what is meant by the Throne, and his siting upon it, and the place where it stands, and the Clouds in which he comes, for all people do believe that there are such things, but you should declare what, and when, and where it is, that people may know it, else how are you a Teacher of the people, if you know not thofe things.

French.

It is a Throne that shall stand upon the earth, and the clouds are the clouds of heaven above, overhead, in which he shall come, where we shall be caught up to meet him.

Coppin.

But define this Throne, what it is made of, and the manner of it how it stands, else you speak the things you know not, and that which you have not seen, nor heard from the Lord, but from your own imagination, as appeares, for the Scripture saith, His Throne is in heaven; And how is it then on earth, if heaven be above, overhead, as you say it is? But I

do believe he is come, and coming dailie, and do set up his Throne in the hearts of men, where he is judging and condemning all things that is contrarie to himself, and when you see it to be in you, then you shall acknowledge it also, in the mean time you must be silent.

French.

I do be lieve he shall come from above in the clouds, overhead, with thousands of Angels, as a man in a bodily shape, with flesh, blood, and bones, for Job saith, he shall see him with those eyes stand upon the earth.

Coppin.

And Job in his life time did see him stand upon the earth in him, as he confesseth in his last Chapter, For now do mine eyes see thee, saith Job: And if you do but read Job from the beginning to the end, and understand what you read, you may see of Jobs state and condition, what it was, both before his change, and after his change.

French.

You abuse the Scriptures, and turns it which wayes your list, into an Allegorie, as a Nose of Wax.

Coppin.

The Scriptures are an Allegorie, and a great myste∣rie, For great is the mysterie of godlinesse; and there is a spiritu∣al meaning to be understood in it all along, for the sum of the whole Scripture is included in Law and Gospel, the first and se∣cond Covenant, as in Gal. 3. 24. speaking of the Son of the Bond-woman, and the Son of the Free-woman, which things, saith Paul, is an Allegorie, for these are the two Covenants, the one from Mount Sinai which gendereth to bondage, and under which all men are Bondmen, the other, which is Agar, from Mount Sion, or heavenlie Jerusalem, which is Sarah, and under which we are all Freemen, for Jerusalem, which is above, is free, which is the mother of us all, and this also is an Allegorie, and a great mysterie.

Capt. Harrison.

Ye pervert the Scriptures, and are a Blasphe∣mer, and I will prove you so.

Coppin.

What is that you call Blasphemy?

Capt. Harrison.

I am not to tell you now, speak not to me.

Coppin.

If you speak to me, I must speak to you: But Sir, How will you prove me a Blasphemer, by the Law of God, or the Law of man?

Capt. Harrison.

First i'le dispute with you, and do it by the Law of God, and then i'le take another course.

Coppin.

Then it seemes what you cannot doe one way, you will endeavour to doe another.

Lievtenant Scot.

There is no body here that intends any hurt against you to intrap you.

French.

But he denies Christs body to be in Heaven above, and that is horrible blasphemy.

Coppin.

Prove that Christ is now in Heaven above, over head, as you say, in a body of flesh, blood, and bones, and that he shall so come, for the Scripture saith, flesh and blood shall not enter into Heaven, and though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet henceforth, known we him no more so.

French.

I prove it in Acts 1. that he did ascend up to Heaven in a body of flesh, blood, and bones, 8. Verse. But ye shall receive power after the Holy Ghost is come upon you, &c. And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up, and a cloud received him out of their sight, and while they looked sted∣fastly toward heaven, as he went up, behold two men stood by them in white apparel, which also said, ye men of Galilee why stand ye gazing up into Heaven, this same Jesus which is taken up from you into Heaven, shall so a come in like manner as you have seen him go into Heaven: And this is up above overhead, and not within man, as Mr. Coppin would have it.

Coppin.

The Disciples here had but a carnall knowledg of Christ, for the Spirit was not yet come upon them, because Christ was not yet ascended, and they beheld him onely as he was talk∣ing with them in his suffering body, which he for that time assumed to himselfe to appeare to them in, to confirm them of his resurrection, and his being taken up in a cloud, was his swift vanishing out of their sight into the Spirit, from that fleshly appearance (as formerly he had done, the doores being shut) and in which they were to see him no more, and were also re∣proved for so looking after him, for why stand ye gazing, ye men of Galilee, up into Heaven, this same Jesus, as you have seene him goe, so in like manner shall you see him come, that is, he grew invisible to their carnall eye, and they were to see him no more till they saw him in them; So also his coming should be to them suddainly in the Spirit, as of a rushing mighty wind, and so it was, Acts 2. 1.

Therefore this Ascention of Christ is not to be understood carnallie, but spirituallie, even as his descending was at first, for he that ascended, is the same he that first descended; and we read not of a bodie of flesh and bones that descended, but the Holy Ghost came down upon the Virgin Mary, and the pow∣er of the most High overshadowed her; and this coming (onlie) his Disciples were to look for on them, as Christ told them, Acts 1. 4. but wait for the promise of the Father; which saith, Christ you have heard concerning me, and which you shall receive when the Holie Ghost is come upon you, and which they also did receive, as in Acts 2. and therefore to look for such a fleshlie Christ as you declare, you may look long enough before you see him.

French.

But he was caught up above, overhead, and shall so come again in the very same fleshlie bodie.

Coppin.

This word overhead, there is none written, and this word above you know not, for Christ may be said to be above, and yet in man, for the word above signifies heaven, or hea∣venlie things, which the Scripture saith is in man; For if you be risen with Christ, seek the things that are above, which is beyond the reach of a carnal capacitie, being spiritual things, as love, joy, peace, gentlenesse, goodness, meekness, faith, &c. and so car∣ries that name of things above, as the same with God, being things of a purer nature then the things that are below, as di∣vision, wrath, envie, malice, and evil speaking, which are the fruits of the flesh, and are said to be earthlie, sensual, and de∣villish, and so goes under that term below, or inferiour, as one with the devil, and not to be esteemed of as the fruits of the Spirit, which are alwayes in God, and so above all, as God is above the Devil, and Light above Darknesse; and this is that heaven above, into which Christ is ascended far above all hea∣vens, and into which we all shall be carried by him, to be for e∣ver with him in the Fathers glory. And now pray tell me where is your heaven, which you call above, that you say Christ is in, in a body of flesh.

French.

It is the third Heaven, above the Stars.

Coppin.

How do you prove it? when the Scripture saith, That the heaven of heavens cannot contain him.

French.

I prove it from Paul, for he was caught up into the third heaven, where he saw Christ, as before, and knew him, and saw things unspeakable, and full of glory with him.

Coppin.

But Paul was all this while living on the earth, and said, Christ was no more to be seen in the flesh after he ascend∣ed, and he being caught up into the third heaven, was his being carried up out of himselfe into high Revelations of glorious ma∣nifestations of God in him, which is Christ in us the hope of glory.

French.

But he saw Christ there personally in a body, flesh and bones, the same which he had before his death, at Gods right hand, now in glory.

Coppin.

If Christ be at Gods right hand in a body of flesh and bones, after that manner, as you say he is, then this is to make God to be a body of flesh, and bones also, and such a one as your selfe, that must be confined to a locall place, when the Scripture saith, he is unconfined to any time, place, or person, but fills Heaven and earth with his fulness, therefore when you speak of God and Christ, you should declare what they are, and what his right hand is, but because you know not, I will tell you.

God and Christ is one and the same in Spirit and glory, and Christ being in Heaven at Gods right hand, is his being in God far above all Heavens or created things, injoying the same ful∣ness of God, as one whom God cannot be without, he being that eternal wisdome and power by which he doth all things, and by whom all things consist, therefore if any blasphemy hath been spoke, 'tis you that hath spoke it, and not I.

Captain Harrison.

Sirrah, you brazenface Rabshackel, what, doe you get up here to declare your blasphemy? come downe, or i'le pull you downe.

Coppin.

I thought you had come in love, and not in malice, but now I see your end is to catch what you can to accuse me, and because you cannot have your end, you are angry.

Captain Harrison.

We came here on purpose to heare you, and now we have heard blasphemy enough from your owne mouth, and that you shall know e're long, and so the dispute ended; but Mr. Cop∣pin desired the people to come againe an houre after, for he was to Preach.

Notes

• Heb. 4: 13:
• The Scriptures an Allegory.
• 1 Cor. 15: 50. 2 Cor. 5. 16.
• Acts 1. 4. 5.
• Eph••s. 4. 9. 10:
• Luke 1: 35.
• What'〈…〉〈…〉 meant by above.
• Coll. 3: 1.
• Gall: 5. Iames 3. 14, 15••
• 1 Kings 8. 27.
• 2 Cor. 5. 16.
• 2 Cor. 12. 1.
• Iohn 10. 30.
• Coll. 2. 9.
• 1 Coll. 16. 17.