A defence of the gouernment established in the Church of Englande for ecclesiasticall matters Contayning an aunswere vnto a treatise called, The learned discourse of eccl. gouernment, otherwise intituled, A briefe and plaine declaration concerning the desires of all the faithfull ministers that haue, and do seeke for the discipline and reformation of the Church of Englande. Comprehending likewise an aunswere to the arguments in a treatise named The iudgement of a most reuerend and learned man from beyond the seas, &c. Aunsvvering also to the argumentes of Caluine, Beza, and Danæus, with other our reuerend learned brethren, besides Cænaiis and Bodinus, both for the regiment of women, and in defence of her Maiestie, and of all other Christian princes supreme gouernment in ecclesiasticall causes ... Aunsvvered by Iohn Bridges Deane of Sarum.

The argument of the 11 Booke.

THE 11. booke is of the third kind of Tetrarkes which our Brethren call Gouernors: beginning first with the Chur∣ches diffused authority: & of confusion in the multitude: & of the appointing to auoide it certaine officers for gouern∣ment: how the name of Gouernors and Rulers is vnderstoode, Rom. 12. & 1. Cor. 12. how these gouernors must rule euery se∣ueral congregation, & how their gouernment stretcheth to al matters. Howe these Gouernors authority is to bee moderated. And first for the election of these gouernors, who should chose them, & what qualities they must haue. What elders were ele∣cted, Act. 14. And what elders are mentioned. 1. Tim. 5.17. & of the 3. conclusions that our brethren would haue vs learn out of that testimony. How the name elders is common to Pastors & gouernors, & how the words may be well vnderstood of re∣lation betwene the ciuil officers then among thē & the pastors. How the wordes inferre not such gouernors as our brethren imagine: and how that although they might be so vnderstood, yet they inferre no perpetuity, as well of the one sort of Elders, gouerning & not teaching, as of the other of gouerning & tea∣ching elders. Howe the words infer no such distinction of eccl. elders the one teaching & gouerning, the other not at al teach∣ing but only gouerning: but rather seem to infer a distinctiō of the trauels, than of the function: or if of the functiō to encline to the distinctiō betwene past. deac. or betwene those Pastors that were 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 antistates, B. and others, that laboured more in mi∣nistring the Sacraments then in preaching. How Caluine dare not inferre any such necessary sense as he conceiueth on this place, but only saith, it may be collected. How our brethren in∣ueighing against them, make these gouernor••, dumb & not tea∣ching Bishops & preaching prelates. How the Apostles words

infer not their ioint gouernment with the Episcopall Elders. How the auncient Fathers that haue expounded this Epistle, Chrysost, Oecumenius, Theodoret, Theophilact, and Ambrose, haue interpreted this place, especially because Caluin, Beza & Danaeus alleage Ambrose for these Elders. How Beza further alleageth Cyprian, with a full examination of Cyprian for them. How Snecanus likewise alleageth Cyprian & Tertullian with parsel of Tertullian for them, besides the examining of Cle¦mens Alex: Irenaeus, Iustinus Martyr, Ignatius & Policar∣pus. How Danaeus alleageth the Ecclesiasticall histories cheefe∣ly Socrates, with his allegations out of Augustine, Basil, Dioni∣sius, Ierome and the canon Lawe, with the examination of the ecclesiasticall histories, the Fathers, and the canons, for these Elders: and of the cause of these so learned mens mista∣king in all these searchings for them, making all not only no∣thing for them, but cleane against them, nor being euer able to prooue not one such consistory, no not one such Elder. Howe Danaeus with Beza and Caluine return back again to search the Scriptures better, for them Rom. 12.1. Corinthians 12. E∣phes. 4. Act. 20.1. Peter 5. And of Caluines and Danaeus con∣tradictions. Of Danaeus return again to the Ecclesiasticall hi∣story in Sozomen, in which speeding as il as before, if not worse for any practise that he would find; he comes again to the scrip∣ture, searching for these Elders, Acts. 15. Acts. 21. Philip. 4 1. Tim. 3.1. Pet. 3.1 Corinth. 14. & Iac. 5. And so home again to that, wherwith our bret. began the inquiry for them, at Act. 14. Lastly of the second point of moderating these Elders au∣thority, by propounding all their actions to the people, to con∣firm them. And of the popular state & our Bret. fear (But not auoiding) of horrible confusion. And of the example they seek to auoid it by, in the manner of Saint Pauls excommunica∣tion of theincestuous Corinthian.

AND first (say our Brethren) let vs examine, whether this autho∣ritie be so diffused ouer the whole Churche, that the hearing, trying and determining of all matters, pertayneth to the whole multitude, or to some speciall choosen persons amonge them, meete for that pur∣pose.

COme they now in almost at the last casts, saying: and first let vs examine, whether this authoritie be so diffused ouer the whole Church, &c. What meane our Brethren hereby? That the first shall be last, and the last shall be first? Should they not haue examined this before? They sayde in the for∣mer page, 82. that the authoritie of Christ is left vnto his whole Church. And also before that page 81. That regiment which he hath left vnto his Church, is a consent of his householde seruants. And that our sauiour Christ hath neither authori∣zed, nor promised to blesse anie other forme of regiment, than that which consisteth of the consent and gathering together of his seruantes in his name. What else, can any of the seruantes of the housholde of Christ suppose, when they heare of this; but that where-so-euer they be diffused, they must gather themselues together, either the whole church vniuersally, or euery whole Church particularly, and giue their consent thereunto; or else, the matter whatsoeuer, is not authorized by the au∣thoritie that Christ hath left vnto his Church. And that he hath blessed none other forme of regiment? And must it nowe be called in question, and examined, whether this authoritie be so diffused ouer the whole Church, that the hearing, trying and determining of all matters, per∣teyneth to the whole multitude? And why not, if the former sayinges bée true? Do our Brethren begin now, to call this a diffused authoritie? Dif∣fused commeth néere confused. And I Thinke, shortly they will finde it confused too. And as they nowe beginne to encline, to some speciall cho∣sen persons amongst them, meete for that purpose: so by little and little, they will peraduenture come downe at length, to some authoritie of go∣uernement euen of one Pastor afore other in one congregation, and per∣haps in one Diocesse also, which is the thing that they nowe so peremp∣torilie denie. Let our Brethren nowe therefore in their good moode, procéede.

The authoritie ••s the power of our Lorde Iesus Christ, graunted vnto the Church.

Our Brethren sayde in the page before, that the authoritie of Christe is left vnto his whole Church: here yet, they say more circumspectly: the authoritie is the power of our Lorde Iesus Christ. Not that Christe hath

left his authoritie vnto the Churche: but that, the authoritie which hee hath left vnto his Church, is not so the Churches, but that it still remai∣neth his authoritie. Nor, that he hath left that his autoritie to his whole Church, as they sayde before; but (as they say here) it is graunted vn∣to the Church. Which may well stande, if any parte or persons of the Church haue it, although the whole Church haue it not.

But (say they) because the iudgement of the multitude is confuse, whereas God is not the author of confusion, but of order: and that we finde in the worde of God, certaine officers appointed for gouernment: we are bold to affirme, that that charge belongeth vnto those that are such.

Here our Brethren in this Learned discoursing of the matter, hau•• now at length found out, not diffusion, but plaine confusion, in the iudgement of the multitude. So that, we may now (I hope) with our Bretherens good leaue, dismisse in peace the gathering together of the housholde ser∣uantes nor enquire after their consentes: but for the consent only of cer∣taine officers appointed for gouernment. And here our Brethr. say: they are bold to affirme, that that charge belongeth vnto those that are such.

This boldnes of our Breth. is here yet the more cōmendable, that they feare not to repell the peoples consent and iudgement for feare of confu∣sion. Whereas God is not the author of confusion, but of order. But it had béene better (in my simple iudgement) not at all to haue sette the multitude a-gogge, as hauing an interest of consent and authoritie, to heare, trie, and determine all matters, onely to bridle the Pastors and the Bishops authoritie: than nowe, hauing brought them in, to thrust thē out. Turpius eijcitur quā non admittitur hospes. Will the multitude hearing, that Christ hath giuen his authoritie to his whole Church, and so to e∣uerie Church indifferently; & that that regiment which he hath left vnto his Church, is a consent of his housholde seruauntes: and that he hath neither authorized nor promised to blesse any other forme of regiment, than that which consisteth of the consent and gathering together of his seruantes, (if they thinke themselues to be any part of his whole church, or of anie particular Churches, and seruauntes of his housholde) suffer themselues after they are gathered together to vse their authoritie, and to giue their cōsent, to be this mocked, & in the end be told; it pertayneth not to the whole multitude, but to some special chosen persons amōgst thē: because the iudgement of the multitude is confuse, and God is not the author of confusion but of order? What maketh our Breth to ware so bold, to take away not only the Bishops & Pastors authority of gouerne∣mēt; but thus also to mocke & dally with the multitude? But (as matter of conscience mouing thē hereto) they say: we finde in the word of God, cer∣taine officers appointed for gouernment. And they say very sooth.

But do they not find also in the word of God, that Princes & Magistrats are certaine officers appointed for gouernment? If they say, they meane it of Eccl. gouernment: doe they not finde likewise in the word of God, that Bishops & Pastors are certaine officers appointed also for Eccl. go∣uernment? But they meane certaine other officers whō they will further describe anon. And if we should graunt this also, and withall, that that charge belongeth vnto those that are such: would it follow, that it belon∣geth only vnto those that are such? Or that, there should be such alwaies & in euery congregatiō, to haue that charge which those had; when they finde in the word of God, that any such supposed officers were, acording to the time & place appointed, for their extraordinary kind thē of gouern∣ment? This is ouer much boldnes to affirme, neither shall they finde so much in the word of God. But let vs now sée, where they will finde it.

And that doth S. Paule plainly declare, where he putteth a difference of the seuerall offices of the Church, whereof he nameth Gouernours for one. 1. Cor. 12.29. and Rom. 12.8. Let him that ruleth doe it with di∣ligence.

Our Breth. haue found out these sentences, ••. or 4. times already, and we haue séene at large, the discussing of these places. But because they find it againe, let vs craue pardon of the readers, once again to peruse thē, least any should thinke, when they alleage any testimonie for proofe, besides their bare sayings, that we sleightly shooke it off. They say, S. Paule doth plainely declare it, where he putteth a difference of the seuerall offi∣ces of the Chuch, whereof he nameth Gouernours. Our Brethren doe well indéede to say, seuerall offices: but our question is nowe, of seuerall officers. For although by some of these seuerall offices, may also seue∣rall officers be vnderstoode: yet not so, but that moe than one seuerally of these offices, yea, many of them ioyntly, were competiblie sometimes to one man, According as God hath delt to euerie man the measure of faith. (as S. Paule sayth, Rom. 12.) for as we ha••e manie members in one bodie, and all the members haue not one office: so wee beeing many are one bodie in Christe, and euerie one, one anothers members. Seeing then we haue giftes t••at are di∣uerse, according to the grace that is giuen vnto vs: whether Prophecie, accor∣ding to the proportion of faithe, or the ministerie in ministring: eyther hee that teacheth, in doctrine: he that exhorteth, in exhorting: hee that giueth, in simplicitie: he that ruleth, in carefulnesse: hee that hath mercie, in cheere∣fulnesse. Might not one man haue diuerse of these giftes or offices? May not he that prophecieth, teach? Nay, is not prophecying mixte with teaching, yea a teaching it selfe? And haue we not shewed suffi∣ciently howe teaching may be ioyned with exhortation, and exhortation with teaching? And may not both of them be ioyned with the ministerie, or with an office as some translate it? And may not giuing and shewing

mercie, be ioyned together, as well as they may bee separated a sunder; And why then may not hee, that hath all these giftes (as some haue had them all) rule also, as well as he that hath but some of them, or but the gifte of rule onely? Yea may not these wordes here of him that ruleth be vnderstoode also of ciuill officers or gouernours, and not only of Ecclesia∣sticall? And haue wee not also heard, that some excellent writers among our Brethren, do so expounde here the worde 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 hee that gouer∣neth? And therefore no certaintie of our Brethrens gouernours, can bée gathered out of this place.

And as for the other place of 1. Cor. 12.28. the Apostle sayde before, ver. 7. &c. But vnto euery one is giuen the manifestation of the spirite to pr••∣fite. For to one is giuen by the spirite the worde of wisedome, to another the worde of knowledge by the same spirite, to another faith in the same spirite, to another the giftes of healings in the same spirite, to another the operations of powers, to an other prophecie, to another discerning of spirites, to another the kindes of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. But all these thinges worketh one and the selfe same spirite, deuiding to euery one, euen as he will. So that, no certain∣tie neither, can be affirmed heere, in what measure these giftes were gi∣uen. Whether one to euery one, or to one moe. And this séemeth the more probable, that some had mo than one of these giftes, because many of these are coincident, and distinguished not so much by diuerse officers, as by di∣uerse offices of these giftes. And euen so, for that which followeth, ver. 28 And some indeede hath he placed in the Church, first Apostles, secondly Prophets, thirdly Doctors, then powers, afterwarde the giftes of healinges, helpings, gouer∣nances, kindes of tongues; Are all Apostles? Are all Prophets? Are all Doctors? Are all powers? Haue all the giftes of healinges? Do all speake with tongues? Do•• all interprete? Did not all these giftes concurre in the Apostles heere first mentioned, and some of them in the Prophetes, and in the Doctors? Yea, when he commeth to the repetition of this gift, and should by order (as he doth the other) mention the gift of gouerning, which our Brethren here especially discourse vpon, & vrge more than the other; the Apostle, though he reck••n vp other seuerally, yet, as though gouerning might be better included in the other, he repeteth it not, nor sayth: are all gouernaunces? As he sayde before, are all Apostles? Are all Prophetes? Are all Doctors? are all powers? But either conteyneth it in one, or some, or all, of the for∣mer offices or giftes: or else passeth it in silence, as not so necessarie as the other, and yet the other are not ordinarie offices. And so hee omitteth helpinges, except in the gifte of healinges he include it. Besides that, hee expresseth not here also, any more than in the other place Rom. 12. what kinde of gouernment in the Church he meaneth. Whether ciuill onely, or Ecclesiasticall only, or both of them mixt, or separate. And howe then can our Brethren so boldly affime, that S. Paule doeth plainely declare

these officers, that must be ioyned in cōmission with the Pastors or with the Bishop, and giue their consent with him, in the hearing, trying, and determining of all matters? But nowe vpon the bare allegation of these two places, our Brethren procéede to this conclusion.

Therefore there ought to be in euerie Church, a Consistorie or Seg∣norie of Elders or Gouernors, which ought to haue the hearing, exami∣nation and determining of al matters, pertayning to discipline and go∣uernement of that congregation.

The premisses inferred not this conclusion, S. Paule speaketh not at all in those places, of euerie Church, and congregation: nor howe many of∣fices ought to be in euerie of them: nor of any consistorie or Seniorie at all of Elders or Gouernors in them: nor of the hearing, examination, & determining of all matters, pertayning to discipline and gouernement of that congregation: nor who, or how many of them ought to do these things: nor of any certaine perpetuall and ordinarie platforme of officers, or offices, to the whole Churche, or to euerie particular Churche and congregation. None of all these pointes are here either plainely decla∣red, or inclusiuely insinuated by S. Paule: and yet sée, how our Brethren when they are once growne to be bolde to affimre one point out of Gods word, for these officers, more than the worde of God leadeth them vnto: dare from one point, procéeding to another, waxe bolder and bolder, & in the ende so bolde, not nowe only to affirme plainely all these things: But to make a flat and plaine conclusion on them, and that a necessarie; that, therefore there ought to be in euery Church, a Consistorie or Signorie of Elders or Gouernors, which ought to haue the hearing, examinati∣on and determining of all matters, pertaining to discipline and gouern∣ment of that congregation: and then indéede farewell, not only our for∣mer questions of womens gouernement: but of all Princes gouerne∣ment, women or men, in any of their dominions. For, here is not onely mentioned discipline, but also gouernement: and not in Ecclesiasticall matters only, but in all matters pertayning to the gouernement of that congregation: and not onely the hearing and examination of all mat∣ters, but also the determining of them all. And all this, not to be done in some, but in euerie Church, and in euerie congregation in the Realme, yea, in the whole worlde. And all this, to be done, not by any officers of the Prince, but by a Consistorie or Segnorie of Elders or Gouernours chosen among themselues, not any officers of the Prince, being so muche as mentioned among them: no, nor now when it commeth to the conclusi∣on, eyther Pastor or Bishop is ioyned with them. So that both the Pastor and the Bishop is now so farre remooued, from hauing any authoritie of gouernemnt in the Church, separated from others by him selfe: that he may kéepe it by him selfe haue he any, for with them (in conclusion) hee

getteh none, they will haue all separately by themselues. Are not these matters (trowe wée) in this Learned Discourse of our Brethren, pro∣perly concluded, and to the great beautifying of Gods Church, and to the quiet establishment of this Realme? O Brethren, Brethren, it is more than high time to looke to such a Segnorie, the verye péeping out of whose heades, and the first appearing in the Discoursing of them, shall beginne his course, on this course fashion: and vnder pretence of putting by the Bishoppe, and of ioyning with the Pastor, shall so exclude the Prin∣ces established authoritie, and sette vp such a straunge newe gouerne∣ment among them-selues, and that in euerie particular Congregation, that is, in euerie parish Church, both with vs in Englande▪ and through∣out all Christendome. But nowe, to mittigate all this, least it might growe into shrewde suspition of most daungerous troubles, innouati∣ons and confusions of all Realmes and states, by giuing too great autho∣ritie to the Segnories of these Congregationall Elders and Gouernours: Our Brethren adioyne heereunto (with great circumspection) certaine cautions of moderation.

Which authority of theirs (say they) neuerthelesse ought to be mode∣rated, that their iudgement may be rightly accounted the iudgement of the holy Church.

I thinke they would say, of the whole Church. But the terme holie, is well-inough. For verily, if the Churche be not the holier this Seg∣norie might bréede a mysterie of great mischiefe and vnholinesse, except their iudgement in choosing and the authoritie of those that be chosen, shall the better be moderated. Let vs therefore marke our Bretherens moderating of these Gouernours, to bridle and represse all these incon∣ueniences.

Which thing consisteth in these two points. First, that the Elders be e∣lected and chosen by consent of the whole Congregation, men of god∣linesse and wisedome, in whom the whole Church reposeth such confi∣dence that they committe vnto them their authority, in hearing and de∣termining such matters, as without horrible confusion they cannot per∣forme themselues.

I looked here, for the moderating of these Elders, that their authoritie should haue béen so restrayned or limited, that either they should not deale in all matter of gouernement, or not proceede ouer farre therein. But our Brethren talke of no such moderating of them. Their moderation consi∣steth in two pointes, whereof the first is, for their election, that the El∣ders be elected and chosen by the consent of the whole congregation. What? And shall neither Prince, Magistrate, Bishop, Pastor▪ nor any of∣ficer ciuill or Eccl. haue any stroake, ouer and aboue the whole multitude of the congregation, in the election of them, which shall deale in all

matters of gouernment? This first point, is a point as daungerous, as any of the residue. And how shall the whole congregation giue their con∣sent in the electing of them? Shall they doe it by some other chosen per∣sons among them, that shall giue their consent for them? And then who shall choose them, that shall chose those, that shall choose these Elders, chosen for them? Or shall euery person of the whole congregation by himselfe, or all of them together on a huddle, choose them? And what if they cannot consent vpon them? Shall the halfe, or greater parte, goe for the whole: when the other halfe, or the lesser part of the whole congre∣gation dissenteth from the election? And how then will they chose suche men of godlinesse and wisedome, as they imagine? And what also if the greater part thēselues of the congregation, want wisedome to make such choise of them? Or affection of loue, hate, feare, hope, &c. ouercome their wisedome? As we sée it doth oftentimes, not only in fewe, but in multi∣tudes. And the greatest parte hath not alwayes the greatest wisedome, nor greatest godlinesse. Whereupon ariseth the common saying: maior pars vincit meliorē, the greatest part ouercomes the better. And our grea∣ter part must be accounted for the whole, or else no choise at all will bée made among them. And where then shall our men of wisedome and god∣linesse, by the consent of the whole congregation be elected and chosen?

Well (say they) yet they shall be men of such wisedome and godlines as in whome the whole Churche reposeth such confidence, that they committe vnto them their authoritie, in hearing and determining such matters, as without horrible confusion, they can not performe them∣selues.

And can they not giue their cōsent to the hearing & determining such matters, without not only confusion, but horrible confusion? And yet can they giue their consent to choose suche persons without horrible or any confusion? And how is it sayd, to be their authoritie in such mat∣ters, wherof they thēselues cannot performe the hearing & determining without horrible confusion? And is the authoritie then, not the Gouer∣nors, but the peoples authoritie? And the Gouernors do but represent the people, whom they gouerne? And are chosen onely as the peoples or the whole congregations debities or executioners, to do y^t for them, that they can not performe thēselues without horrible confusion? And is this the peoples only remedy to repose such confidence in other, that they cōmit all their authoritie, vnto the authoritie of these Gouernours? And may not these committies themselues vpon such confidence committed vnto them, committe as horrible confusions, and bréede as foule dissensious and disorders, as may the people themselues? Are not all these pointes, (besides a number mo, and perhaps more horrible, that experience would teach vs) confused and intricate?

And hereto also (say our Breth.) may be referred that, which is said of election of Pastors that the Apostles Paule and Barnabas did ordeine by election of the congregatiō, Elders vnto many Churches Act. 14.23. be∣cause the name of Elders is cōmon both to Pastors & Gouernors and is vsed in the scripture to cōprehend both at once, as it appeareth manifest¦ly by S. Paule 1. Tim. 5.17. Those Elders that gouerne well are woorthie of double honour, especially those that labour in the worde and doctrine. Of which testimonie we learne these three thinges: first, that there be Elders in the Church, which meddle not with teaching, but are occupied altogether in gouerning. Secondly, that the Elders which labour in teaching, o∣therwise called Pastors, are ioyned also in gouernment with them▪ which teach not. And thirdly, that the name of Elder, comprehendeth both sortes of Elders. And especially in the place before alleaged for electi∣on, there is great reason to lead vs to thinke, that the Elders for gouern∣ment, are as well vnderstoode, as the other for doctrine, because it is written in the same place, that after they had ordeyned them Elders in euerie congregation by election, as hauing set the Churches in perfect order (which could not be, except they had established discipline as well as doctrine) they committed them to the Lorde, in whom they beleeued.

To confirme that which our Brethren haue so boldly affirmed, that there ought to be in euerie Churche a Consistorie or Segnorie of Elders or Gouernors, which ought to haue the hearing, examination and de∣termining of all matters pertayning to discipline and gouernement of that congregation: they alleage here againe the example of the scripture Act. 14.23. which they haue before twise or thrise alleaged and is suffici∣ently aunswered vnto. But their proofe for the election of these Consi∣storie gouernours, standeth vpon no certaine grounde by our Brethrens own confession. For they say not: hereto also must be referred that which is saide of election of Pastors, &c. but, hereto also may be referred, &c. So that this example relying at the most, but on coniecture of probabili∣tie, can make no sounde plea of argument, that so it must be alleaged. Ne∣uerthelesse vpon good hope to proue it, our Brethren will assay to bestow an argument on it. And (if they reason at all) thus they reason:

The name of Elders is common to both, to Pastors and Gouernors, and is vsed to comprehende both at once:

But Paule and Barnabas did ordaine by election of the congregation Elders vnto many Churches:

Therefore, by these Elders that Paule and Barnabas did ordaine vnto many Churches, is comprehended Pastors and Gouernours both at once.

This conclusion in sensu coniuncto may be graunted. For, what doth this conclusion let, but that these Elders were Pastors and Gouernors too

both at once, being Gouernors in that they were Pastors? If they mean it of distinct persons and offices: then, if the maior of this argument meane, that the name of Elders is so common to both, that is to say, to Pastors and gouernors, as distinct persons, that it is vsed alwaies to comprehend both at once: I denie the Maior. The scripture is most manifest to the contrarie, and their selues also.

Otherwise, graunting the Maior, that it is so vsed nowe and then: to shewe that it is so vsed in this place heere cited by our Brethren in their Minor: howe will they prooue it? Which if they doe not: where is the argument? But what néede we séeke further confutation of their Mi∣nor, than their owne Learned discourse heereon? Haue not their selues alleaged this example for Pastors, Page. 33. treating there onely of the Pastors proper dutie, and ioyning this place, Act. 14.23. vnto the conci∣liation of these, 1. Pet. 5. and Tit. 1.5? Yea, what other are their owne wordes here present? Do they not say: And hereto also may be referred that which is sayde of election of Pastors? And whereas the text sayth, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, they restrayne here the woorde, Presbyters, Priestes or Elders vnto the Pastors. So that, by their owne exposition they doe but hale and draw this place, to proue such gouernors as are not Pastors. I speak not this, that I vtterly denie, there were any such Elders in the Apostles times, as were chiefly gouernours, little dealing with the publike ministerie of the worde, in such places as they wanted Ma∣gistrates that were Christians: but that these Gouernours (as wee haue séene at large out of Gualter) vpon, 1. Cor. 12. and out of Gellius Sne∣canus on 1. Cor. 6. were rather as Magistrats among thē in those times. which persons hauing receaued of the spirite of God the gifte of gouerne∣ment, the name of Elders (I graunt) accordeth also well vnto them. And so, both in the olde Testament and in the newe, the Ciuill gouernors are called Elders. But these were not Eccl. Elders.

And that this place Act. 14.23. is to be referred to no other Elders then Pastors, the testimonie also of Caluine (euen where he acknowledgeth that there were such Elders, as medled not with the ministerie of the worde) doth manifestly herein cōfute our Breth. When they had created Elders. Hereupon (sayth Caluine) it appeareth that it sufficeth not for men to haue been once indued with the doctrin of godlines, & to hold a summe of the faith: except they make continuall encreasementes. Therefore, Christ not only sent the Apostles that should spread abroad the Gospel: but also he commanded that Pastors should be ordeyned, that the prea∣ching of the Gospel should be perpetuall and in daily vse. This order set of Christ, do Paule and Barnabas obserue, when they assigne Pastors to euery Church, least that after their departure, the doctrine should cease and become silent. Whereupon this place teacheth, that the Churche

can not want the ordinarie ministerie, neither can they bee accounted Christians before God, saue those that willingly are disciples all the race of their life. I expounde it that Elders are heere called those, vnto whome the office of teaching was enioyned. For that there were cer∣taine which were onely censors (or controllers) of manners appeareth out of Paule, 1. Tim. 5.17.

So that euen here, where Caluine alleageth the other testimonie that our Brethren also doe, yet he clearely cutteth off this Testimonie, Act. 14. 23. to inferre any profe at all of these Consistorie gouernors, and Elders that are not teachers. Neither do our Brethren here thus violently draw in their Gouernors, vnder the name of Elders, where it is apparant that Pastors are ment onely: but also the word which should yet better proue, that it is ment of Pastors, that is to wite, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, the ordeyning of them by handes, to carrie the better shewe that it was not of Pastors onely, but of Gouernours, they translate it thus: They did ordeyne El∣ders by election of the congregation. Where the worde neither spea∣keth of, nor necessarily inferreth, any election at all, and much lesse of the congregation, but onely, of ordeyning or creating with handes, sig∣nifying the consecration of them, by laying on of handes vppon them. Which ceremonie was not vsed in those that were Gouernours onely as were these controllers of manners. For although there might be suche at that time ciuill Elders (the people being in such case) elected among them: yet can it not be shewed, that they had also the imposition of hands. Although peraduenture that prophane or ciuill order of holding vppe their handes among the Grecians, for which Beza citeth Cicero, might be well vsed in the election of them. And albeit Caluine also interprete 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, quum creassent suffragiis, when they had by suffrages (or voyces) created Elders: and mention also (as we haue séene before) the heathen manner of holding vp of the handes: yet, as noting this to bee too prophane, he sayth: notwithstanding the Ecclesiasticall writers vse the name, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, of ordeyning by handes in an other sense, to wite, for the solemne custome of ordeyning that in the Scriptures is called, the laying on of handes. And therefore, where he applyeth this to electi∣on, and that also to the peoples election, although he giue the modera∣tion of the election, not to the people, but to the Apostles: yet if the worde 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, be vnderstoode Ecclesiastically (as the Ecclesiasticall wri∣ters vse the name) for the solemne custome of ordeyning, that in the scriptures is called, laying on of handes: then cannot this woorde be∣tokening ordeyning, be drawen to election, and much lesse to the ele∣ction of the people, that had no authoritie of the laying on of hands, nei∣ther in ordeyning nor in electing

This therefore may suffice hetherto to aunswere the minor of our Bre∣threns

argument. But they (as though all were safe and sure, if they on∣ly strengthen their Maior) goe about to confirme it by an other place, say∣ing:

Because the name of Elders is common to both, to Pastors and Go∣uernors, and is vsed in the scripture to comprehende both at once, as it appeareth manifestly by S. Paule, 1. Tim. 5.17. those Elders that go∣uerne well, are woorthie of double honour, especially those that labour in the word and doctrine.

This confirmation of the maior is here néedles, to proue that the name of Elders is common to both, (that is to wite) Pastors and Gouernors, and to comprehende them both at once. For as we haue sayde) euen so it doth in euery place, where the pastors are called Elders▪ Because that in the nature of their Pastorship an Eccl. gouernement is comprehended. E∣specially, Hebr. 13. ver. 7. and 17. Where the pastorall Elders are called 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, Gouernors. So that, pastors and Gouernors, may both of them at once be very well comprehended in the name of Elders. But our Brethren meane it here not onely so: but that the name also comprehen∣deth sometime, as well Elders that were Gouernours and not Pastors, as Pastors and Gouernours. For, I thinke they will not say Pastors are not also Gouernors; though no such Gouernours as they meane. Neither doe we denie, that the name of Elders comprehendeth Gouernours that are no Pastors. For (as we haue sayde before) the name of Elders was an ordinarie and generall name for the iudges, the head officers, and Ma∣gistrates of the people.

But that either this place, 1. Tim. 5.17. confirmeth that place, Act. 14. 23. to be vnderstoode of both sortes of Elders, especially, of Elders that were Gouernors and not Pastors, as it is of Pastors that were Gouer∣nors: that will be too harde (I thinke) for our Brethren to proue. Yea, (to let alone the confirming of that place, Act. 14.) I doubt it will bee somewhat harde also (except they will presse me with the authoritie of our Brethren onely themselues, that so thinke) to proue any necessitie of vnderstanding this place, 1. Tim. 5. (vnderstanding Ecclesiastical officers) for such a double kind of Elders, some medling with teaching, and some not medling with teaching, as they gather thereupon and inferre, say∣ing:

Of which testimonie wae learne these three thinges: first, that there be Elders in the Church, which meddle not with teaching, but are oc∣cupied altogether in gouerning. Secondly, that the Elders which labour in teaching otherwise called Pastors, are ioyned also in gouernment with them which teach not. And thirdly that the name of Elders, compre∣hendeth both sortes of Elders.

Oportet discentem credere, The learner must beleeue. And we are bound and that of necessitie, to learne and to beléeue, all that the holie Scripture teacheth vs: but not all that men shall gather thereon, except they proue vnto vs with all, that their teaching followeth in necessitie of conse∣quence thereupon. This place neither in expresse wordes teacheth these three thinges, nor they teache, nor can teache, that these three thinges which here they sette downe, followe (by any necessitie of consequence) on this testimonie. And howe then doe wee learne thereon these three thinges? For my part, I will offer my selfe to become their scholler to learne them gladly, if they substantially (as Learned discoursers should) can teach them.

And thus forewarde (as one readie to learne) I will shew my selfe be∣fore hande, concerning the first and chiefest point, that here, in this inuer∣sed order of these three thinges, is proposed: that I denie not but fréely graunt, Saint Paules woordes may indéede bee well inough vnder∣stoode of suche Elders in the Churche, as meddled not with ordinarie and publike administration of teaching the woorde, but onely with gouernement, beeing chosen among them-selues in those dayes, as their ciuill Christian rulers, or petite Magistrates, to compose and take vppe their controuersies, that they should not striue and goe to lawe, be∣fore the heathen superiour and publike Magistrates, to the obloquie of the Gospell. And that they were not onely (as Caluine calleth them) controullers of manners onely: but meddling also in the ouersight of Ecclesiasticall causes, as the ciuill Christian Magistrates doe nowe (God be praysed) more openly, and with more authoritie than at that time, because the chiefe ciuill Magistrates were not then Christians: and yet the generall direction and ouersight for manners pertayned in dutie vnto them.

But what necessitie inferreth this: that because there were such Go∣uernours then; therefore nowe also, wee learne that there bee El∣ders in the Churche, which meddle not with teachinge, but are oc∣cupied altogether in gouerning? For, although this be graunted, that there be Elders in the Churche, which meddle not with teach∣ing, but with gouerning, meaning the Ciuill Christian Magistrates, for they both bee, and be in the Churche, and that lawefully: yet, what are our Brethren the néerer, for the proofe of such Elders as they here con∣tende for, except they will make them, the ciuill Christian Magistrates? But vnderstanding by this worde Elder, such Ecclesiasticall Elders as they suppose: although againe I graunt them, where they say, there be Elders in the Churche, &c. If in this worde bee, they signifie the time present: that indéede there bee such Elders in the Church as they would haue, that is to say, there be such in those Churches of our Brethren,

in some other Countries, or the French or Dutch in vsuall: notwithstan∣ding I learne it not by this place, 1. Tim. 5.17. that there be any, but rather that there were some, though not suche in all pointes, as they imagine they were. And doth this followe that because wee learne like∣wise, and more clearely, and with more apparant warrant and nature of the offices, that there were Apostles, Euangelistes, and Prophetes in the Churche: therefore we learne there be Apostles, Euangelistes▪ and Prophetes in the Churche still among vs? But if our Brethren meane by these wordes, wee learne that there bee Elders in the Churche, &c. That is to saye, there ought to be, and that perpetually, and that in eue∣rie Church and congregation, such gouerning Elders as they, pretende, which meddle not with teaching: that, we learne not here, nor they proue, nor (I thinke) shall euer be able to prooue, that S. Paule heere, or hée or any other, in anye other place of all the Scripture, doth teache or touch it.

If our Brethren say that the wordes of S. Paule inferre a perpetuall necessitie, that there shoulde bee Elders gouerning the Churche, which should be labourers in the worde and doctrine: admitting therfore that he speaketh here of 2. distinct sorts of Eccl. Elders in the Church, the one medling with teaching, the other not: if the one inferre a perpetuall ne∣cessitie of the office, so doth the other.

I graunt againe, that both there, and in other places, S. Paules wordes inferre, and so do others also in the scripture, a perpetuall necessitie, that there should be Elders gouerning in the Church which should be labo∣rers in the worde and doctrine. Albeit he speaketh there, either of those that were then, or should be at any time in the Church, what honour they should haue: which was the Apostles purpose in these wordes: The Elders that gouerne well are woorthie of double honour, especially such as labour in the worde and doctrine. And I pray you, was not S. Paule, and the other Apo∣stles, Euangelistes, and Prophetes, Elders also, and worthie of as much honour, as were those Elders, who and whatsoeuer? And yet are nowe and long since, these functions ceased, for any necessitie, or ordinarie néede or exercise of them in the Church. Though, more or lesse, there haue still béene in all ages, (at least-wise there ought alwayes to haue beene in all ages,) labourers in the worde and doctrine. And therefore admitting there were then together in the Church, such distinct offices, the dutie to haue them honoured accordingly, inferreth no suche necessitie of perpe∣tuitie; that if the one continue in the Church, the other also must continue. For then we should still haue Apostles, except our Brethren can teach it, and we shall learne it better; than that this place will inferre any necessi∣tie, or continuance of it.

Now, as we sée here, that we can not learne this by any necessity of the

Apostles wordes, that there bee, that is to say, there ought to be in the Church, that is to say, in euery congregation; Elders, that is to say, a Con∣sistorie or Seignorie: not medling with teaching, that is to say not med∣ling in the publike administration of the worde & sacraments: but are occupied altogether in gouerning, that is to saye, which ought to haue the hearing, examination & determining of all matters, pertayning to discipline and gouernmēt of that congregation: for this is their own ex∣position of their words: admitting still that the Apostle speaketh heere of two diuers sorts of Elders, that ought in good order of teaching these 3. things to haue béen the first point, which our breth. shuld haue taught vs, & we to haue learned, & they haue here placed it last: so, let vs now sée, what necessitie driueth vs first or last to learne, on these words of the Apostle, 1. Tim. 5.17. that there were such Elders then in the Churche, & that Paule there meaneth of such Elders, as medled not with teaching, but were oc∣cupied altogether in gouerning. For first, S. Paul sayth not this in plain wordes. It is our Brethrens collection. Colligere hinc licet (sayth Caluine hereupon) it is lawefull to gather, that there were then two kindes of El∣ders, because all were not ordeyned to teach. For the words do openly sound, that some gouerned well & honestly, to whom notwithstanding the partes of teaching were not cōmitted. And indeede out of the peo∣ple were chosen graue and tryed men, which together with the Pastors in common counsell & authoritie of the Church, administred the disci∣pline, and were as it were the Censors or controllers in correcting man∣ners. Caluine sayth here, it may be gathered, and so alreadie (to search out the matter better) we haue admitted it, that such there were, and yet not such neither, as our Brethren prescribe, nor Caluine agréeth fully to him selfe of their authoritie. For where he sayth here, that together with the Pastors in common counsell and authoritie of the Church they admi∣nistred the discipline, and were as it were controllers in correcting man∣ners, on the former place, Act. 14.23. he sayth, fui••se enim quosdam dun∣taxat morum Censores, apparet, 1. Tim. 5.17. that there were certaine (Elders) the controllers of manners onely, (for we can not so expounde it, that they were the onely controllers of maners, syth the Pastors were controllers of manners also) it appeareth out of Paule, 1. Tim. 5.17. And here when he commeth to the place that he referreth vs vnto, he lea∣ueth cleane out this duntaxat, onely: and giueth them together with the Pastors in common counsell and authoritie of the Church, the admini∣stration of discipline. Thus doth Caluine with this contradiction, or wa∣uering in his spéeches heereon, infringe the authoritie of his owne collecti∣on.

But what maketh him, or any other of our Brethren, to thinke this so plaine and necessarie a collection. On S. Paules words, that there were

two kindes of Elders in the Church, the one medling with teaching, and the other not, but occupied altogether in gouerning? It is because the Apostle vseth this worde 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 chiefely, especially, most of all, or aboue all other? And must néedes this specially of the persons, make a specialtie also of the functions? Might they not as well be all of one function, and yet for some specialtie in their labours, either in gift, or in trauell, or in diligence, or in dexteritie, or in successe, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 haue a more speciall re∣commendation then some other? And yet no disprayse vnto the other, which though they were ministers of the worde also, yet some of them, according as they excelled in diuersitie of giftes, might be most employed otherwise. The Apostles were ministers of the woorde and medled with teaching, before they chose Deacons: and yet they say, it liketh vs not that leauing the worde we should minister to the tables, which plainely argueth, that, they laboured not so much in the worde and do∣ctrine before, as they did after, and yet then were they Elders medling with teaching, and according to that time gouerning well also, and de∣seruing double honour, though not in comparison of their labours in the worde and doctrine, after they had chosen the Deacons to helpe them.

Yea, the Deacons also were not excluded from medling with teach∣ing, as appeareth both by Stephen Act. 7. and by Philip. Act. 8. When Paule and Barnabas were chosen out by the holy Ghost, vnto the worke whereunto he called them, which was a worke in both of them medling with the woorde, Act. 13. yet because S. Paule medled more with the worde than Barnabas did: not onely the Licaonians called Barnabas Iu∣piter, and Paule Mercurie: but S. Luke addeth the reason thereof 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. Because he (to wit, Paule) was the guide or ruler of the worde, that is to say, the chiefe teacher of it, who laboured more in the worde not onely than Barnabas, but than all the residue, 1. Cor. 15.10. and yet medled with teaching, as well as Paule did. The speci∣altie therefore of labouring in the worde, more chiefely and aboue o∣ther, debarreth not other, but that they may meddle with teaching also, yea and be of the same function in that behalfe: neither S. Paule maketh his distinction, of medling with the worde, but of labouring in the word and to expresse the more painefull or effectuall labour therein, hee dou∣bleth his spéech, saying, that labour in the worde and doctrine. And Cal∣uine himselfe construeth these wordes thus, qui bene praesunt. They that rule well, that is, which faithfully and stoutly trauaile in their office. And they that labour in the worde and doctrine, that is, they which are intentiue or earnest in teaching the worde, referring it not to the diuersitie of the office, but to the diuersitie of the industrie in the of∣fice.

I speake not this neither so peremptorily, that of necessitie we should on the other side conclude that he speaketh there but of those Elders onely, that were all Elders of the word, and yet that he commendeth some more especially than others, for their more especiall labours in the worde: but that wee may thus also conster his wordes, with probabilitie and reason inough, for any thing herein to the contrarie.

And thus sithe neither these words, 1. Tim. 5.17. inferre any necessi∣tie of such Elders as meddle not with teaching, but were altogether oc∣cupied in gouerning: nor yet, if they had ment any suche Elders then, they inferre any rule of perpetuitie, that there should be such still: and what their gouernement was, is not here set downe, nor insinuated, and not onely some enlarge it, some restraine it, but Caluine himselfe, which is the chiefest (if not the first) that so construeth these wordes, is so contra∣dictorie to him selfe or vncertaine and varying therein: howe shall wee learne this first point, (except our Brethren shall teach vs better) that there be Elders in the Church which meddle not with teaching, but are occupied altogether in gouerning? meaning such gouernement, of such Elders, & such necessarie being of them, in such Churches of euery particu∣lar congregation, as our Brth. here do pretend & vrge on this testimonie.

Now as we can not as yet, vppon any necessitie of consequence, out of this sentence, 1. Tim. 5.17. Learne the first point: so I (in my dull head) much lesse the second, that the Elders which labor in teaching, otherwise called Pastors, are ioyned also in gouernement with them, which teach not. For admitting againe, that there were 2. kindes of Elders in distinct function, intended in this testimonie, the one medling with teaching, the other not: and both gouerned, as it is sayde here generally, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, the Elders that rule well: where with all, is not to be forgotten how Paule to expresse their well ruling vseth the very worde, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, that Beza ascribeth to Timothie, not only for an Elder of the worde, but also for such a principall Elder of the worde, as Beza calleth out of Iustine, an∣tistitem, a Bishop. So that, vnlesse our Brethren will make eche Elder of the Seignorie in euerie Congregation a Bishop, and so set vp vnprea∣ching Prelates like the Popish dombe Bishops: they can not so proper∣ly expounde it of Elders not medling with the worde, as medling with it. But vnderstand it either waies as they list. (For so they call them B. as we haue séen in Beza & the Geneua note, on Phil. 1.1) yet doth not this sen∣tence make their gouernements ioyne with the Bishops and Pastors tea∣ching. Yea, in the one and better halfe, that is in the gouernement of teaching the worde, they they selues doe disioyne their gouernements. And if (as we haue séene out of Gualter) they were only politike and ci∣uill Christian gouernors: except our Brethren will giue politike and ci∣uill iurisdiction also to the Pastors: how doe they ioyne in gouernement?

Yea how doe our Brethren here say, that the Pastors are ioyned in go∣uernment with them which teache not? and yet in their forme of Com∣mon prayers and ministration of sacramentes, both that which was set out in Geneua, and that which nowe of late is set out againe at London by our Brethren, they doe confesse (which I haue often before noted) that the pastors and Ministers cheefe office standeth in preaching the worde of God and Ministring the sacramentes, so that in consultations, iudge∣mentes, elections, and other ecclesiasticall affayres, his counsell rather than authority taketh place.

And this they say is approoued by Caluine. And yet Caluine plainly sayth (as we haue heard before) that these Elders not teaching, together, with the pastors in common counsell and authoritie of the Church, ad∣ministred the Discipline, and were as it were the censors to correct the manners. Are not those sayings cleane contrary? or doe they think to help all with these wordes? that the Prayer booke speaketh of his cheefe office which indéede it doth: but, so, that it debarreth from him (in the other infe∣rior matters all authority quite and cleane, and leaues him onely to bare Councell where Caluine giueth him and them both Councell and autho∣ritie in common: and likewise our Brethren heere say that the pastors are ioyned also in gouernment with them. Which saying of our brethren is yet far better then his abridging, abasing, or rather annihilating of the Pastors authority in the gouernment of the Church, and giuing all to these not teaching Elders and onely counsell to the pastors. Howbeit the sayde bookes of Common Prayer, doe after ward cleane againe contrary themselues, saying, in the title of Elders: whose office standeth in gouer∣ning with the rest of the Minist. in consulting, admonishing, correcting & ordring al things pertaining to the comely directiō of the congrega∣tion they differ from the Ministers in that they preach not the word nor minister the sacraments. In which wordes, they giue the Pastors not on∣ly counsell but authority, and (as doe our Brethren héere) ioine them in Gouernment both together. Which though of the twaine it be the better, yet to ioyne these Elders not teaching in equall and ioynt authoritie of Ecclesiasticall Gouernment with the Pastors, neyther is it conueni∣ent, nor oure Brethren haue prooued it, nor wee learne it by anye playne wordes, or necessary consequence, out of this testimonie, 1. Timo∣thy. 5.17.

And as for the third point, which shoulde rather haue béene the first, or second, that the name of Elder comprehendeth both sortes of Elders: for such Elders as our Brethren héere pleade, they can not prooue it, at least∣wise, as yet they haue not. Notwithstanding, (taking Elders, as wée haue sayde before) though this place of Saint Paule doe not inferre it, and so we learne it not also out of this testimony: yet in other places wee learne it

plaine ynough, and freely graunt in the church two sortes of Elders.

Now although this may suffice to aunswere our Brethrens testimo∣nyes out of S. Paule to Timothy, that wee can not learne by any infer∣rence of this place, there were such Elders then, as our Brethren gather that there were: yet on this occasion, to procéede a little further herein, ei∣ther for our Brethrens fuller satisfaction, at least wise for the plainer ope∣ning of the matter, to any indifferent, or not to much forestalled iudge∣ment: it is the more probable by all likelihood, that S. Paul in this place, meant not any such gouerning Elders as medled not with teaching, be∣cause the text it selfe (if we peruse that that goeth before, and that commeth after) speaketh of such Elders as either our Brethren them selues vnder∣stande for Elders in age, not in office, as ver. 1. rebuking not an Elder: or if in office, of such onely as medled with teaching, so well as with go∣uernment. As immediately after his proofe of this testimony, S. Paule procéedeth saying: against an Elder admit no accusation, except vnder 2. or 3. witnesses. Which our breth. confesse, is spoken of an Elder medling with teaching, as we haue before at large declared. And as for all the aun∣cient fathers (at least, those which I haue red) gather in their Commen∣taries thereupon, no other kind of Elder, then such as medled with teach∣ing in their Gouernment.

Chrisostome Homil. 15. writing vpon this place, sayth: on this wise, The Elders that gouerne well are worthy of double honour, moste of all they that labor in th•• word and doctrine. For sayth the Scripture, Thou shalt not moosle the mouthe of the Oxe that treadeth out th•• corne, and the VVorke-man is wor∣thie his rewarde. Hee calleth in this place obedience and the yeelding of necessary things, honor. For that which followeth: Thou shalt not moosle the mouth of the Oxe that treadeth out the Corne and the VVorke-man is wor∣thie his reward signifieth this. And therefore, when hee commaunded Widowes to bee nourished with honour, it shoulde bee referred to their necessary liuing, that it may serue to suffice them that are widowes indeeede.

And agayne: Honor the Widdowes, that is, those that are in poore e∣state. For howe much the poorer shee is, the more shee is a Widdow. Hee setteth downe the testimony of the Lawe, and addeth the testimo∣ny of Christe, and both of them agree together. For the Lawe sayth: Thou shalt not moosle the Oxes mouth, that treadeth out the Corne. Thou seest howe hee woulde haue the Doctor to labor. Truely there is no other labour to bee compared thereunto. Hee addeth the Testimonye of Christe. For hee that is hired is worthy his rewarde, let vs not there∣fore looke onely to the rewarde. But let vs nowe also heare the precept. He that is hired (saith he) is worthy his reward. If any therfore shall bee dainty or remis: he indeed is not worthy. Except any shal be the oxe trea∣ding

out the Corne, and bearing the yoke, he shall draw against the cold and against the thrones, nor depart till he haue done: he is not worthy. It behoueth therefore that the doctors haue their liuing abundantly mi∣nistred vnto them, least they faint or be weakened or be occupied in the least matters, and depriue them-selues and others of the great, that they may labor the matters that are spiritual, hauing no regard to the seculer things. Such kinde of persons were the Leuites which had no care to the things seculer, in such sorte as had the laity. For the caring for the Le∣uites was permitted to them, (to witte, to the Laity) and by lawe were appointed for them reuenewes, tenths, Golde, first fruites, vowes (or of∣ferings) and many other things, but these thinges were by the lawe wor∣thily permitted to them, that only sought the thinges present and earth∣ly. I may boldely say therefore that the prelates (or gouernors) of the Church, ought to haue nothing but their liuing and their apparelling, that they shoulde not bee drawen with lusting after these things.

But what is that he saith with double honor? think we, that it is spo∣ken of double, for that it is stretched to the widdowes and to the Dea∣cons (or ministers) or else is it put, of double, that is to say, of grace? let vs not therefore, look onely to that that he sayd he is worthy of double honor: but let vs much more mark that which hee added, they that go∣uern well.

But what is it to gouern well? Harken to Christe saying: the good pa∣stor layeth his life for his sheepe. To gouern wel therfore is this, to spare none of them for their gouernment sake. Chiefly, saith he, they which la∣bor in the word & doctrine. Wher now are they that say, there is no need of the word and doctrine? sith with such study Paul admonisheth Timo∣thy saying: meditate these things, in these things be thou. And again, In∣tend to reading and consolation, for doing this thou shalt both saue thy self and them that hear thee. And these he commandeth cheefly of all, to be honored, & he addeth the cause, saying: for they sustain much labor. And how right is this? for when as another watcheth not, nor is pined with care, but is euery where secure and quiet in his daily talk & compa¦nies, this man is striken with care & continually appleth meditation, espe¦cially if he be vnexpert of external discipline: who seeth not how much he is to be preferred before other: sith that he hath exposed him-selfe to so many labors? for he is laid open to be torn in peeces with tongs innume∣rable, one blameth him, another praiseth him, another defaceth him, one cals in question his memorie, another his stile. Great constancy hath hee need of, to bear these things. And very much it ferdereth the edification of the Church, if the prelates doe excell in the grace which except they haue, very many things of the discipline eccl. shal perish. Therefore after he had sayd, it behooueth a doctor to keepe hospitality, to be curteous,

to be vnreprouable: he reckoneth this also, and addeth a Doctor. For to what purpose is he called Doctor, but that hee shoulde teache? but per∣haps thou wilt say, that he shoulde teache philosophy, by the example of life. These thinges are vaine: For the Mastership of wordes is necessary also, and therefore Paule sayth, cheefely those that labour in the worde and doctrin. For where as he treateth of matters of opinion, what place hath the holinesse of life? What force hath that? Neither yet will I praise that sermon which swelling in haughtinesse followeth the boast of out∣warde cunning, but that which hath much power and iuice, which is waightie in sense and full of Wisedome. He hath no neede therefore of furniture and pompe of speaking: but of intelligence and of force meet to vtter that, that hee thinketh ought to be vttered.

By these wordes it appeareth that Chrysostom taketh S. Pauls words to betoken no other Elder Gouerning Ecclesiasticall Discipline, than such as medled or ought to haue medled with teaching. And that the more they excelled therein, Paule ment they were worthy to bee more honou∣red. As for other kindes of Elders not teaching at all, hee mentioned héere, or commended none.

As for the referrence of any other compared vnto these Elders (whom héere also hée calleth Doctors, not knowing of any so nice distinction be∣twéene Doctors and Pastors as our Brethren deuise) which might séeme by this worde 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, to insinuate some other kinde of Elders: besides the comparison of those that labor more or lesse in the word and Doctrin: he taketh it to also to be spoken, in comparison of those Elders, that were eyther the fore-named Elder Widows, or else, of the Deacons or Ministers of the church, without mention of any other, saue of the Layty, that proui∣ded of maintenaunce of the Clergies liuinges. And héere hée maketh an a∣gréeable probation, betwéene the state of the Leuites and of the Laytie, in the state of the olde Lawe vnder Moses: and the state of the newe, vnder this generall precept of Christe, the workeman is worthy of his reward. And as for the outward Discipline of the Church, he maketh the same to appertain to those Gouerning Elders, that labour also in the Worde and Doctrine, shewing what paine they take till they bée growne to experi∣ence therein. Of other vnpreaching Prelates or Ecclesiasticall Gouernors of the Church, or Churches Ecclesiasticall Discipline pertaining to any such Elders, as were Ecclesiasticall Gouernors, not teaching at all: ney∣ther here nor any where else Chrysostome maketh any mention. But, as in this place, so in all other, he vseth the worde 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. Presbyter, Preest or Ecclesiasticall Elder, onely for such as are Ministers of the Worde. And that this is the very meaning of Chrysostome: Theophilactus his a∣bridger doth clearely expound it. He calleth Honor (saith Theophilact) as appeareth in that which followeth, the thinges that are bestowed for

their maintenaunce. For they that instruct other, must abound in those thinges, that are necessary for the life of man: leaste beeing distracted with the care of them, them omit the fuuction of preaching. But he in∣ferred it shoulde bee double, in respect of the Widowes or of the Dea∣cons. But wherein all the Worlde are they, which affirme, there is neede of a kinde of a kinde of good life, and not of speeche, wherewith other may be instructed? Which question Oecerinus, repeateth yet playner, saying: But But where nowe are they that say, hee that gouerneth hath no neede of speeches nor of Doctrine, but of like onely? Harke, harke (good Brethren) and aunswere to your call for Ocumenus plainly calleth for all such as say there were some such Ecclesiasticall Gouernors of the church, that woulde meddle all with manners and Discipline of life, and no∣thing in speeche and teaching doctrine. Neither can yée post it of to those that preache the seldomer, or can-not preach: for these do the best they can, and teach yet some way or other: it least, it is their duety and profession. But your Gouerning Seigniors professe onely ruling, and remooue tea∣ching.

Theodorete hauing noted on the first verse of this Chapter, 1. Tim. 5. rebuke not an Elder, and sayde, non dicit hic sacerdotem. &c. Heere hee na∣meth not a preeste, but one that is waxen olde: when he commeth to this 17. verse, the Elders that gouerne well: &c. without any distinction, as naming there onely such as were Ministers of the worde, he saith: so lau∣dable a thing is Doctrine. Hee putteth dubble honor for more ample. So that, if Theodorete had thought that Paul had also ment here▪ any such kinde of Elder, as medled not at all with Doctrine, there is no likelihood, but he woulde also haue expressed it. Especially saying before on the 4. Chap. ver. 14. Despise not the grace that is in thee, which was giuen thee by Prophecy, with the imposition of the handes of the Presbytery or El∣dership. Here hee called Doctrine, Grace. But the presbytery heere hee calleth those, which receiued the Apostolicall Grace. So also hath the holy scripture called them Elders which were honorable in Israel Like∣wise here Theodoret had good occasion, to haue noted these Elders gouer∣ning the Ecclesiasticall regiment of the Church, not medling with tea∣ching, if he had thought Saint Paule had meant of any suche kinde of Elders.

The commentary that is added vnto Hierome, saith: The Elders that rule well: are those that fulfill their office▪ are worthy of double honor, both of the office and of the Doctrine: cheefely they that labour in the word and Doctrine: He sayde not of all that haue the Word, but that la∣bour in the Worde. But hee commaundeth him to ordeine all that haue it.

As who say, all the Elders are ordeined into the office and Ministery

of the worde, as hauing the word, and so are to be honoured with a dou∣ble honour, both for their office, and for the Worde sake, whereof they be officers, but they are moste of all to bee honoured with this double ho∣nour, that are painfull laborers therein, whether Ierome in the name of Presbyter, Preest or Elder vnderstand in any place, such Elders as our Brethren pretend: we shall héere more afterward.

But Caluine alleageth Ambrose, and so doth Beza, and Daneus, for these Elders gouerning the Ecclesiasticall Discipline, and not medling with teaching of the worde. Caluine hauing alleaged (as we haue heard) on this testimony, 1. Tim. 5.17. that we might gather there was such El∣ders, sayth: Ambrose complaineth that this manner was worn•• out of vse, through the slouthfulnesse or rather the pride of the Doctors, while they onely woulde excell. But what is this vnto this place, 1. Timothy, 5.17.

Vpon the which, Ambrose hath only these words: The Elders that rule well, &c. The good and faithfull dispensers or stewardes are not onely to be iudged worthy of high honor, but also of earthly, that they might not be made sad for want of maintenaunce, but rather that they might reioyce of their faith and Doctrine. For if hee bee not humbled with neede, hee will become more earnest: and authority will encrease in him, when hee seeth him-selfe euen in the present time to enioy the fruyte of his labour. Not so that hee shoulde abounde, but so that hee shoulde not want. And this is all that Ambrose there saith heere∣on. Manifestly acknowledginge in this sentence, but one kinde or function of Elders to bée spoken of, and those to bée Dispensers of the VVorde. And as for other kinde of Elders not Dispensers nor medlers vvith teachinge at all, hee medleth not at all in this place with them.

True it is that on this first verse of the fift Chapter, Rebuke not an Elder but exhort him as a Father. &c. Hée sayth before: For the honorable∣nesse of age, hee that is the greater in yeares, is to bee prouoked to do well, with gentlenesse, that hee may take the admonition the more ea∣silie. For hee that is warned, may bee afrayde leaste hee shoulde after∣warde be rebuked, which is vnseemely for a senior. For verily among all nations old age is honourable whereuppon also the synagog and after∣ward the church, had Seniors, without whose counsel nothing was done in the Church. Which thing by what negligence it grewe out of vse, I can-not tell, except perhaps by the slouthe of the Doctors, or ra∣ther by their pride, while they alone woulde seeme to bee some∣what.

Thus sayth Ambrose, but whether they had no partes at all in med∣ling with the Worde, because they laboured not altogether therein, as

the Doctors did, or what their office was, if they had any peculier office, or onely so reuerenced for their age, that their onely counsell was asked, or whether they ioined in authority and gouernment in common with the Pastorall and teaching Elders, or when they came into the Church, or how they began, or whether it were but onely a continuaunce, or imitation of the Iewes order in the Synagogue, or there were any commaundement of them, eyther from the Lorde, or from the Apostles, or whether there were any such in the Apostles times, or whether they were in euery congregati∣on, or but in some principall and greate Churches, or howe long they con∣tinued, in euery or any Church where they were, or when they ceased or grewe out of vse, whether al at once, or by litle and little: none of all these thinges (which were very materiall to our consideration of them) wee can learne on these wordes of Ambrose. But it séemeth (sith they were gone so long before S. Abrose time,) that he confesseth he did not knowe howe they were cleane worne out of vse: Whether it were likely or no, that they were thought conuenient to remayne, it is apparaunt they were not counted so necessary, as were the offices of Bishops, of Pastors and Teachers, and of Deacons. For if they had so estéemed of them, they would haue continued in the Church, as well as the other, at leaste wise in some places, neither negligence nor slouth, nor pride, eyther of Doctors, or of a∣ny other, nor of all the Church, coulde haue euer so cleane, and that so long time before S. Ambrose, and so many hundred yeres since, haue abolished them.

But if this yet satisfie not our Brethren for Ambroses Iudgement vpon these other Elders that were not Labourers in the Worde and Doctrine: because hée sayth they were such Gouernours, as that nothing was done in the Church without them? Albeit that also may be lmitted in the vnderstanding of such consent or assistaunce, as wherein the Dea∣cons were euer ready at hande, atttendaunt on the Bishoppes and Pa∣stors yet why might it not then (if wée will not vnderstande it, neither of those temporary ciuill officers, that were at that time as Magistrates among them, such as Brentius, Gualter, Snecanus, and other doe say, that then they had:) bee well ynough vnderstoode, euen for suche El∣ders, who though they were not the Bishop or the Especiall Doctours that our Brethren distinguish from Pastors: (which Doctors laboured moste in the Worde and Doctrine, though they ioyned exhortation and application to ther Doctrine, (as did the Pastors) yet these other not so much labouring in that manner, sithe there was nothing doone in the Church without them, (except our Brethren will count teaching no∣thing) it argueth (if they dealt more or lesse in all thinges, that were to be done in the Church,) that they were not cleane excluded from all tea∣ching.

But whatsoeuer office those Elders had, that Saint Ambrose saith, was growne out of vse: it is plaine impossible, that he beeing him-selfe an Arch-bishop and approuing so farre foorth (as we haue heard) the superi∣or separate authoritie of euery Bishop one in a City: and reckoning them to succeede in the Apostles places: shoulde withall conceiue, that they had euer any such office of ioint-authority in all thinges, yea, in excommu∣nication with the Bishop, as our Brethren ascribe vnto them, but the con∣trary thereof, we shall see after (God willing) further in the practise of S. Ambrose him-selfe.

In the meane time, because this Testimonie out of Ambrose, doth not yet sufficiently describe vnto vs, what kinne officers these were: (for if by the slouth or by the Pride of the Doctors these Elders decayed: then be like they had some kinde of teaching:) yet lea••••e our Brethren hauing no bet∣ter testimony than these vncertaine wordes of Ambrose, shoulde vnder pretence of reuiuing these olde Elders deade and buried long agoe, obtrude vnto vs some newe yong Elders, missebegotten and fathered in these olde Elders names, let vs nowe sée further what other Elder Fathers, for these Elder Gouernours, that medle not with teaching, and yet ioyne in common Gouernment with the Pastors, our Brethren alleage also be∣sides Saint Ambrose

Beza that sayde in his confession of the christian faith, Cap. 5. de eccl. ar∣tic. 32. But that the Elders were chosen by suffrages, or at least by the ap∣proouing of the whole company, as it openly ynough appeareth out of Ambrose, complaining that certaine men transferred this righte vnto themselues: addeth héereunto: and out of Cyprian also, of whom we may eftsoones vnderstand that matter, that the Bishop gouerned a Colledge of Elders, not that hee shoulde there reigne: but that according to their sentence, hee shoulde gouerne the Ecclesiasticall policie, especially while at that time the Aphricane Churches were not holpen of the Magistrate but rather most cruelly vexed.

By the leaue still of this so excellent man, whome otherwise (saue in these matters of Discipline and Gouernment) I honour as highly as any of our Brethren do, and herein withall reuerence dissent from him (as I haue before of him, and of all other our like reuerent brethren protested) this which here Beza saith, that it openly ynough appeareth by Ambrose (quoting Ambrose in 1 Tim. 5.) that the Elders (which there Beza spea∣keth of) were chosen by suffrages, or at leaste by the approouing of the whole company: neither any choosing of them eyther by suffrages, or by approouing of the whole or any of the company, app••areth, openly or darkelie, ynough or at all. Ambrose mentioneth no such matter, in all the whole Chapter. Howe openly ynough Ambrose there speaketh of these Elders, we haue already seene. It is not so open ynough, that we can learn

thereby, eyther what office, or authority, or ground therof they had: nor yet where, when, nor howe they beganne, continued or ended. And there∣fore it is not so open ynough, but that to prooue, these Elders which our Brethren woulde bring in to bée like vnto those: and to bring war∣rant ynough that wée are bounde to receiue and chose them: I thinke our Brethren woulde wishe it were more open and apparant than Am∣brose maketh it: And so woulde I wishe also, that wée might once certain∣ly knowe, whether wée must needes choose them, or wée may choose, whether we will choose them, yea or no: supposing they had béene suche, as our Brethren suppose they were: which neither coulde bée, nor hath a∣ny probability, but all contrarie, by the testimonyes, coniectures and rea∣sons that we haue séene.

But because, if it be not open ynough, Beza will open it more by Cy∣prian, that was Ambroses auncient, by almoste two hundred yeares. Let vs searche likewise what his Quotations out of Cyprian, will open vn∣to vs, and whether in his time which was about the yeare of our Lorde, two hundred and sixty, there were anie such Elders as medled not with teaching, that Gouerned the Ecclesiasticall Discipline and spirituall iu∣risdiction. For so Beza in the beginning of this article sayth, that the spiri∣tuall iurisdiction was committed to them.

Now to proue this, after he hath done with Ambrose, hée addeth: and out of Cyprian also, of whome wee may eft-soones vnderstande that matter, that the Bishoppe Gouerned a College of Elders, not that hee shoulde there reigne, but that according to their sentence hee should gouerne the Ecclesiasticall policy. Or euer we come to sée by his Quo∣tations, what manner of Elders soeuer these were, whether such as Be∣za goeth about to prooue and our Brethren vrge, yea or no: (let that fall out after, as it shall:) this is first worth the noting, that the Bishop go∣uerned the College of these Elders, and so was aboue them. And that not for an action or two, or for any set dayes▪ Moneths, or yeares: but continu∣ed, as the College continued, during his time, except he were depriued of his life, or deposed of his dignity, or exiled from his Country, or otherwise absent, or fled, as then Cyprian him-selfe was fled from his College, by reason perhaps of the personall persecution against him. And yet hée re∣mayned still, as well absent as present, the Gouernor of them.

Yea, but (sayth Beza, not to reigne there, God forbid, wee shoulde allowe any bishoppe to raigne ouer those, of whome hée hath the Go∣uernment. Let that bee vpbrayded to the Pope. Wee houlde our selues content with this, that Beza sayth, hee shoulde rule the Ecclesiasti∣call policy.

Yea but (sayth Beza) according to their sentence. And what rule is that, if they giue the sentence, and he onely rule according to their sen∣tence?

doe not they rather rule than hee? or is he any better than their seruaunt, Officer, or executioner of their sentence, and they his Gouer∣nors, not he theirs? therefore that shoulde be opened yet more plaine, what is meant by their sentence, and how farre it stretcheth. Or else it is not yet made by Beza open ynough, to whome the Gouernment doth belong, to him or to them. But so farre foorth as belonges to him, hee still is all their superior therein. Nowe then, if it shall fall out, that this Col∣lege of Elders ouer which the Bishop is Gouernor, shall prooue to be a College of such Elders, as medled as well with teaching of the worde, as with the Gouernment of Ecclesiasticall Discipline: and bee of those Elders that be his Brethren in the office of Eldership, which we call (of Presbyters) Preestes: then haue wée héere againe the permanent superio∣rity of Bishops ouer Pastorall Elders, whereof wee haue so much before debated.

But Beza goeth about another matter cleane contrary, to prooue that this College of Elders were of such Elders as were not medlers with teaching of the Worde. Which if they were, as wee shall sée anone, by triall out of these Epistles of Cyprian: yet sayth Beza, that this was then▪ when as especially by that time, the Churches of Aphrica were not hel∣ped of the Magistrate, but rather moste cruelly vexed. And what mea∣neth Beza to come in with this, Especially of that time of heathen Magi∣strates and their persecution? when Gualter maketh the same reason, that there were such Elders not teaching (though not Ecclesiasticall Go∣uernors as our Brethren imagine) in the Churche then, when as there wanted Christian Magistrates and Princes: what other thing did hee in∣ferre theron, but this? that now syth there are Christian Magistrates and Princes••, and that the Gouernement of Ecclesiasticall matters so well as temporall perteineth to them▪ as we also acknowledge, and that moste rightly in the Queenes most excellent Maiesty (and if in her, then in the right of all other Christian Princes,) that therefore, this defect beeing nowe furnished, this supply of these Elders is needlesse and no longer ne∣cessary. Yea, and shoulde nowe be preiudiciall to the authority and Go∣uernment of Christian Princes. And what other thing sayth Gualter there, but that this reason of Beza doth inferre? Our Brethren reason on S. Paule wordes, 1. Tim. 5.17. That because S. Paule bringeth in these wordes, Especially those that labour in the worde and Doctrine: therfore there were other gouerning Elders, that were not teachers. And may not we reason as well and much better? that sith the Elders which were no tea∣chers, but onely ruled the Eccl. Discipline, were then, when as especi∣ally at that time the churches were not holpen of the Magistrate: there∣fore being nowe holpen of the Magistrate, there néede no such Elders to be the rulers of the churches Discipline.

But let vs nowe sée by the search of these Quotations, that Beza citeth out of Cyprian for these elders, what manner of Elders they were. Whe∣ther not medling with teaching, (as Beza and our Brethren pretende) or Ministers of the word and Doctrine. And first, for the seconde booke of his Epistles, the fift epistle: which is here first by Beza quoted, the superscrip∣tion is thus.

Cyprianus presbyteris & Diaconis & plebi vniuersae salutem. Cyprian to the Elders, and Deacons, and to the whole people, Greeting.

Heere are Elders named before Deacons, as the Deacons before the people. But whether they medled with the word or no, as yet appeareth not. But by the like stile in his other Epistles precedent, when hee wri∣teth to other, or writeth of other, whome he calleth Presbyterus, and appli∣eth to them the name Sacerdos: we may he bolder (before hande) conclude that he meaneth in that name, no such Elders as our Brethren pleade for. Cyprian commendeth to these Elders, Deacons and people, one Aurelius whome hee had ordeined a Reader. And in the beginning of his Epistle sayth: In the Clearkes that are to bee ordeined (moste deare Brethren) we are woont to consult with you, and in common counsell, to weigh the manners and merites of euery one. In these wordes hee telleth them what he w••s wont to doe with them, in ordeyning of the Cleargy. But he sayth not that they had the authority thereof so well and as far forth as he, and that they ioyned in Common gouernment with him, but in common counsell, and that onely to consider of their conuers••tion: nor that he was so necessarily bound thereto, but that, when he himselfe apparant∣ly knewe the party to be fitte (as he commendeth this Aurelius to be) hee was not then bound to consult with them thereon, but he himselfe with∣out any further consultation, might ordein the party, as here hee did this Aurelius. And he saith Merebatur talis Clericae ordinationis vlteriores gradus & incrementa maiora, non de annis suis, sed de meritis aestimandus, sed interim placuit vt ab officio lectionis incipiat, &c. Such an other as he deserued fur∣ther degrees of the Clericall ordination▪ and greater aduauncementes, not being to bee esteemed by his yeares, but by his merites. Neuerthe∣lesse it pleased mee in the meane season, that hee shoulde begin from the office of reading: because both nothing doth more agree vnto the voyce that hath confessed the Lorde by glorious preaching, than with celebrating the Diuine Lessons, to sounde out aft••rwarde the high words: he which hath vttered the Martyrdom of Christe, to reade the Gospell of Christe from whence the Martyrs are made, to come to the pulpit after the stockes: to haue bene beholden there of the multitude of the Gentiles, and here to be beholden of the Br. there to haue beene heard with the wonder of the people standing about him▪ & here to be heard with the reioysing os the Brotherhood. Know yee therefore (most

dearely beloued brethren) that this man was ordeyned of mee, and of my Colleagues which were present, because I know that you doe both willingly embrace and wishe, for many such to bee ordeyned in our Church.

Heere hee speaketh of Colleagues indéede, that ioyned with this holy Archbishop Cyprian in ordeining this man a Reader. But hee sheweth that all the action was at his pleasure, and that hee mought haue giuen him higher orders if he had pleased. But what is héere to proue that these Colleagues, though he gouerned them, were of any College vnder him, or were not Elders medling with the Worde? yea rather because he speak∣keth of ordeining, and that hée ioyned them with him in the ordeining, and that action was done by imposition of handes, which wee haue séene before, was onely of those that were Ministers of the Worde: why shoulde we not think that these colleages, were elders that medled with the word and teaching, when the reader whome they ordeyned medled with it?

Heere is at leaste (to beginne with) a good coniecture, that these Elders medled with teaching, when they ioyned thus farre in the ordeining of Teachers: but heere is nothing at all, whereon wee may coniecture, that these Elders did not medle at all with teaching.

The next testimony that Beza quoteth out of Cyprian, for these gouer∣ning Elders not medling with teaching, is in the thirde Booke the tenth Epistle. And here he beginneth as he did before (saue for the people) Cy∣prian to the Elders and Deacons his brethren, Greeting. Whome hee meaneth here also by the name of these Presbyters, Preestes or Elders, and in what matters they medled, appeareth more playnely by this E∣pistle.

Verly I wished (most deare brethren) that I might haue saluted with my letters, our whole Cleargy intyre and safe. But because this mali∣cious tempest, which hath beaten downe our people for the moste part, hath from hence also added an heape vnto our greeues, insomuch that in the slaughter thereof, it hath wrung in a portion also of the Cleargy: we beseeche the Lorde that wee may salute you, whome wee knowe to stande in constancie, and in the vertue (or power) of fayth, beeing pro∣tected heereafter also through the mercy of God. And although the cause compell mee, that I my selfe ought to hasten and come vnto you, first for the longing and desire of you, which thing is one of my chiefest wishes: and then moreouer, that those things which the common pro∣fit about the Gouernment of the Church requireth, we may treat of (or handle) them together, and may file them being examined by the coun∣sell of many: neuerthelesse it is rather thought good, yet a while in the meane season, to keepe a priuie corner and rest, in respect of other com∣modities, which appertaine vnto the peace and health of vs all.

Whereof a reason shall be rendred to you, of our moste deare Brother Tertullus. Who for his other care which in godly workes he greatly im∣ployeth, was also the author of this counsell, that I shoulde abide warie and refraining, nor rashly commit my selfe vnto those places, where I was so often inquired after and sought for. Reposing my selfe therefore on your loue and religon, which I haue knowne sufficiently, I doe by these letters both exhort you, and commaund (or charge) you, that you (whose presence there is not enuied, nor so much daungerous,) occupy my roome (or steede) about those thinges to bee done which the religi∣ous (or Ecclesiasticall) administration doth require. And againe his con∣cluding his Epistle hee saith: but vnto that which our Elders Donatus, Nouatus, and Curdius haue written vnto mee, I beeing alone coulde write nothing againe, sithe that from the beginning of my Bishopricke, I haue determined to doe nothing of mine owne sentence priuately, without your counsell, and without the consent of the people, but when as by the grace of GOD I shall come vnto you, then will wee treat in common of those thinges that are either done or to be done, according as mutuall honor doth require.

In this Epistle (as in the other) he sayth he wil treat together in com∣mon with them, of those thinges that concerne the gouernment of the Church, and therein do nothing without their counsell: Howbeit he ma∣keth this nothing else, but his own determination with him-selfe so to do. Neither giueth he to them in common any ioint or aequall authority with him in these thinges, as of their right and office, otherwise than as hee made them his deputies in the authority thereof. Yea, hee not onely ex∣horteth them, but commaundeth and chargeth them to stande in his steede.

And all this he doth in his absence, which recommendeth the more his authority in his presence. Although therfore in his presence among them, he would in all thinges consult, examine and (as he sayth) file out matters with the counsell of many (for, plus vident oculi quam oculus) yet can wee not gather thereupon, that this their counsell and treating in common ar∣gueth the authority of Gouerning those thinges, to be in common also a∣mong them. For, where he attributeth to these elders thus much, that hee wold doe nothing without their counsell: he addeth, & without the cōsent of the people. And consent is more than counsell (for a man may giue his counsell, and yet, it may be done without his consent: but if it shall not be done without his consent, then he hath a greater stroke therein, than in gi∣uing his aduice or counsell) & shall wee say then, that the people also had the authority, and that greater authority to, in the gouernment of the churches discipline, than had these Elders? these humble and curteous spée¦ches therfore, or these his doings (so far. as here he saith, mutual honor re∣quired)

argue not the peoples, nor the Elders & deacons ioint-authority with him. Yea our brethren their-selues giue not this authority and go∣uernment to the Deacons. And yet here Cyprian, looke what dealing in the Gouernment of the Ecclesiasticall Discipline he yeeldeth to the El∣ders: he ioyneth the Deacons ioyntly with them.

But admit nowe, that these Elders and Deacons had ioint authori∣ty in common with him, in the gouernment of the Churches Discipline: still our Question is, who, and what manner of Elders these were? whe∣ther Gouerning Elders not medling with the Worde, as Beza and our Brethren doe affirme? but if we shall better consider this, that heere he maketh them and the Deacons to be his Deputies: although the Deacons were inferior, but were not excluded from medling in the Ministery of the Worde: What likelihood is there, but that these Elders their superi∣ors, were Ministers of the Worde also? and what vnlikelihoode is there not in this? that if there had beene any other kinde of Elders, to wit, pa∣storall Elders, higher then both of them, as they must néedes eyther grant that there were, (if these that he writeth to were not Pastorall Elders, or else, that they wanted Pastors and Ministers of the Worde and Sacra∣mentes) that hee woulde make these Elders and Deacons his Deputies, rather than the Pastorall Elders amongst them? the Pastors being of the same function of eldership that him-selfe was of, and so might much bet∣ter represent him, he only differing in degrée of dignity and authority of Gouernment ouer them.

But to make it yet more playne, when as hee mentioneth also in this Epistle, thrée of these Elders, Donatus, Nouatus and Curdius, whatsoe∣uer the other were, this Nouatus (for I can finde no other Nouatus but one, that was in Cyprians time, and one of his elders,) not onely med∣led but ouermedled with the Worde. And both wrot vnto him, and af∣terwarde much troubled him, breeding a moste daungerous Schisme and heresy in the Church, and all vnder a pretence of more seuere Discipline and purity, and yet was him-selfe, when he was well sought out, a most impure and licentious man. This Nouatus being an elder of Carthage, where Cyprian was Bishop, fledde from Carthage to Rome, and there also brake foorth into such factions, as we haue séene before out of Euse∣bius, Lib. 6. Cap. 33.

Whereupon Cornelius the B. of Rome, writeth of him vnto Cypri∣an. Whome Cyprian aunswering, Lib. Epist. 2. Epist. 8. sayth: Concer∣ning Nouatus, there was no neede to shewe vs from thence: when rather by vs Nouatus ought to haue beene shewed vnto you, that hee was al∣wayes desirous of newe matters. Of couetousnesse vnsatiable, furious in rauening, puffed vp with arrogancye, and an vnsensiblenesse of a prowde swelling, euer knowne there vnto the Bishops in an ill sort, con∣demned

by the voyce of all the Preestes, as an Heretike alwayes, and faithlesse, euermore curious that hee might betraye, flattering to this ende that hee might beguile, that hee might loue neuer faythfull, a fyre-brande and fire to kindl•• the flambes of sedition, a whirle-winde and Tempest to make Shipwrackes of the fayth, an aduersary of tran∣quillitye, an enemye of peace: to conclude, Nouatus departinge thence from vs, that is to say, the storme and the Whirle-winde de∣parting from vs: quietnesse was partly made, and the glorious and good confessors, which by his inciting were gone from the Church, after that hee was gone from the Citye, came to the Church. Againe, The same Nouatus is hee, that amongest vs first sowed the flambes of discorde and Scisme, which heere seuered some of the brethren from the Bishop. Which euen in the very persecution it selfe, that hee might turne away the mindes of the brethren, was another kinde of persecu∣tion vnto our people.

It is euen hee, which by his faction and ambition, made Felicissi∣mus his Catch-pole a Deacon, neither I permitting it, neither writing of it. And sayling with his tempest to ouerturne the Church at Rome also, hee hath there attempted the like and euen such partes, pul∣ling a portion of the people from the Cleargye, cutting asunder the concorde of the brotherhoode, that helde well together among them selues and loued one another. Certainelye sithe that, according to the bignesse thereof, Rome ought to goe before Carthage. Hee hath there committed greater and more greeuous thinges, hee that heere against the Churche made a Deacon, made there a bishoppe. Ney∣ther let anye man meruayle at this in suche kinde of men. The euill are euer caried madde in their furye. And when they haue committed their wickednesse, they are vexed with the conscience it selfe of their wicked minde. Neither can they abide in the church of God, which haue not holden the Discipline of Gods making, and that which is Ecclesi∣asticall, neyther in the conuersation of their dooing nor in the peace of their manners. The pupilles whome hee hath spoyled, the Wi∣dowes whome hee hath defrauded, the churches moneye which hee hath denied, require these punishmentes which wee see in his fu∣rye.

His Father also died for famine in a Village, and yet afterward when hee was deade, hee buried him not. With his foote hee strake his VViues bellye, whereuppon shee trauellinge before her time, was deliuered of her childe murthered. And dare hee nowe condemne the handes of them that make the offeringes, when hee him-selfe is woorse than his feete were, with the whiche his Chilyde that was borne was slayne? His conscience misgaue this guiltinesse

of his crimes long agoe. For this cause hee made sure reckoning, that hee shoulde not onelye bee called oute of the Presbyterye, but also excommunicated, and the Brethren vrging it, the Daye of his triall approched, in the which before as his cause should be hand∣led, if that the persecution had not come before it. Which hee taking holde of, with a certaine kinde of vowe that hee might escape and saue his condemnation, committed and intermixed all these thinges, (as hee which was to bee cast out of the Church and excluded) preuented the iudgement of the preestes, by his voluntary departing: as though, to haue preuented the sentence, were to haue escaped the punish∣ment.

By this inuectiue of Cyprian, it is not onely moste apparant that this Elder Nouatus was a Minister of the word and sacraments: but that al∣so these consistories or colleges of Elders, in such great cities as Rome & Carthage, that with the Bishops were assistants in the gouernmēt of the Ecclesiasticall Discipline, were not of such Elders as medled not with the worde: but were of such Presbyters Preestes or Elders, as were also cal∣led sacerdotes. Which in the Epistle before this that Beza next citeth, is called of Cyprian, the corpse of the Preestes. Lib. 3. epist. 13. Where, after againe he hath inueighed against this Nouatus, whome there hee calleth Nouatian, he saith: for therefore (moste deere Brother) the corpse of the Preestes is aboundant, coupled together with the glue of mutuall con∣cord and bonde of vnity: that if any of our college shall attempt to make an heresie, and to rende and waste the flocke of Christe, the other shoulde helpe, and as profitable and mercifull pastors shoulde gather together into the folde the Lordes sheepe. And thus by the occasion of this one Scismaticall Elder, wee finde not onely a profitable warning for vs all to take héede, of making schisme in the Church vnder pretence of greater purity, and innouating newe orders of more seuere Discipline: but also, which is the point we now relie vpon, that these Colleges of El∣ders, whose counselles the Bishops vsed in the Gouernment of the chur∣ches discipline, were colleges of pastorall Elders.

But to search it yet further with Beza, let vs procéede vnto his next quotation, Epist. 14. euen the next Epistle to that we last cited, although wée haue partly séene the same already, for the superiority of Bishops o∣uer pastorall Elders. Wherein Cyprian writeth to the Elders and Dea∣cons as before. The occasion was▪ because they admitted some to the sup∣per of the Lord, and to the peace of the Church, who had fallen in the time of persecution, and had not before their receiuing, publikely confessed their offence, and declared their vnfeyned repentaunce. Whereupon sayth Cy∣prian:

I haue long helde my patience (most deare Bre.) as though our shamefaste

silence should gaine quietnes. But when the immoderate and cut∣ted presumption of some, endeuoreth by their rashnes to disturbe both the honour of the Martyrs, and the shamefastnesse of the confessors, and the tranquillitie of the whole people: I must not holde my peace anie longer, least too much silence growe to the daunger, both of the peo∣ple together and of our selues. For what daunger of offending the Lord ought we not to feare, when as some of the Elders, neither mindefull of the Gospell, nor of their place, neither thinking of the iudgment of the Lorde to come, nor of the Bishop that now is placed ouer them, claime all to themselues with the contumely and contempt of their gouernor. Which thing was neuer done at all vnder our auncestors. Yea, would to God they claimed not all thinges to them, with the ouerthrowe of our Brethrens saluation. I can winke at and beare the contumely of our Bi∣shopricke, as I haue alwayes winked at it, and throughly borne it. But there is now no place of winking at it, when as our Bretherhood is be∣guiled by certaine of you, who while without the reason of restoring them to saluation, are desirous to be plausible: they doe rather hinder such as are fallen. For, that it is a most hainous offence which persecu∣tion compelled to be committed, euen they also doe knowe that haue committed it, when as the Lorde and our iudge hath sayde: He that shall confesse me before men, I will acknowledge him also before my father which is in heauen. But he that shall denie me, I will also denie him. And againe, All sinnes shalbe forgiuen to the sonnes of men, yea blasphemie; but he that shall blaspheme a∣gainst the holy Ghost, shall haue no forgiuenesse, but is guiltie of aeternall sinne. Againe the blessed Apostle sayde: ye can not drinke the cup of the Lorde and the cup of Diuels; ye can not communicate at the table of the Lord, and at the ta∣ble of Diuels. Hee that concealeth these thinges from our Brethren, be∣guileth the misers, as though that they which truely repenting them, might satisfie vnto God the father for mercie by their praiers & workes, shold be seduced, that they might perish the more. And those that might erect themselues, might the more fall. For when in lesser sinnes, the sin∣ners declare themselues penitent at a iust time, and come to the confes∣sion of their sinnes, according to the order of discipline, and by the lay∣ing on of the Bishops and the Clergies handes, they receaue the right of communicating: they are now (in the rawe time of the persecution, yet continuing, the peace of the Church it selfe being not yet restored:) ad∣mitted to the communicating, and their name is offered vp, and hauing not done their penitence, their confession of their sinnes being not yet finished, nor the hand either of the Bishop or of the Clergie being as yet layde vpon them; the sacrament of thankesgiuing is giuen vnto them. When as it is written, He that shal eate the bread or drinke the cup of the Lord vnworthily shalbe guiltie of the bodie and bloud of the Lorde. But now are not

they guiltie that knowe not the lawe of the Scripture, but they are guiltie that are the Gouernours, and doe not declare these thinges vn∣to their Bretheren, that they beeing instructed of their Gouernours, might doe all thinges with the feare of God, and with the obseruation giuen and prescribed of him. Moreouer, they cause the blessed Martyrs to be enuied, and set at strife the glorious seruauntes of God, with the Prieste of God; that when as they that are mindefull of our lawe shall haue directed their letters to me, and shall haue requested that the de∣sires of euerie one may be examined, and the peace to bee giuen, when as our mother her selfe shall haue first by the Lordes mercie receiued peace, and that the diuine protection shall haue brought you againe vn∣to the Churche: these men taking awaye the honour which the blessed Martyrs, which the Confessors keepe vnto vs, contemning the lawe and obseruation of the Lord, which the same Martyrs and Confessors com∣mande to be holden, doe communicate with those that are fallen, and offer, and deliuer the Sacrament of thankesgiuing, before the feare of persecution be extinguished, before our returne, before almost the very departure it self of the Martyrs. Whē as the Martyrs yea if so be through the heate of glorie not so much looking vpon the scripture, should de∣sire any thing more than they ought, contrarie to the lawe of God; they ought to be admonished of the Elders and Deacons suggesting (or de∣claring it) as it hath alwayes in times past been done.

Thus doth Cyprian most clearely shewe, that these Elders (whom al∣so hee calleth by the name of Gouernours.) Not onely with the Bi∣shoppe layde their handes on the penitent, but administred the sup∣per of the Lorde vnto them. Which thing they dooing with-out the offenders due acknowledgement of their faultes: nor they preaching the lawe of God and repentaunce to them, as they ought to haue doone: and laying their handes on the penitent, or euer their Bishop was re∣turned: as Cyprian rebuketh them for these presumptions; so by this he declareth, that these Gouernours Consistoriall were suche Elders, as we call Priestes, that is, Ministers of the worde and sacramentes; and not such Elders as medled only with gouerning and not teaching, as our Brethren and Beza do pretende.

And because Beza quoteth yet an other testimonie out of Cyprian, to wit, the 15. Epistle, for proofe of these Elders: it behooueth vs to sée that also, least we should leaue any thing out that our Brethren affirme. And so farre (for my part to my pore skill) as I finde ought in them, although I growe ouer tedious thereby. Yet I more couet the full boulting out of the truth, and through satisfying the desire euen of the most scrupulous & curious reader, in so hoate and great controuersies, especially as this is of this Eldership than I feare the glutting of thē, that care not much for these

questions, or wilbe easily though with reason answered.

The 15. Epistle is written to his brethren, the martyrs and confes∣sors in his Churche, who hauing written to their Byshop Cyprian, for the orderly admitting into the communion of the church, such as had fal∣len; he returneth this answere to them. The carefulnesse of our place and the feare of the Lorde compelleth me (most valiant & most blessed mar∣tyrs) to admonish you by our letters, that of whome the faith of the L. is so deuoutly and so stoutly conserued, of the same also the lawe and discipline of the Lorde may be reserued. For sithe all the souldiours of Christe ought to keepe the preceptes of their Emperour; then muche more conuenient is it, that you should more obey his preceptes, which are made vnto other an example, both of vertue & of the feare of God. And verily I beleeued, that the Elders & Deacons which are there pre∣sent, warned and enstructed you most fully, concerning the lawe of the Gospell, euen as also in times past it hath alwayes beene done vn∣der our auncestors, that the Deacons resorting vnto the prison, should with their counsels and with the preceptes of the scriptures, ouerrule the desires of the Martyrs. But now I knowe with most great griefe of minde, that not onely the commaundementes of God are there not declared: but as yet they are rather hindred, in so much that euen those thinges also which of your selues are warily doone, both concerning God, and honourably concerning the sacred Priest of God, are againe vndone by certaine of the Elders. Who neither thinking on the feare of God, nor of the Bishoppes honour, when as you directed vnto me your letters, by the which your requestes were to be examined, and that you craued I would giue peace vnto certaine that were fallen at suche time as the persecution beeing finished, wee should beginne to come together in one with the Clergie, and be recollected: they contrarie to the lawe of the Gospell, and to your honourable petition, before the accomplishment of their penitence, before the confession made of the moste greeuous and extreeme trespasse, before the hande of the Bishoppe and the Clergie layde vppon them for their poenitence, durst offer (he meaneth prayers and thankesgiuing) for them, and giue them the sacrament of thankesgiuing, that is, durst prophane the holie bodie of the Lorde. And verily to them that were fallen, pardon in this point might be graunted. Who beeing dead, would not make haste to bee quickned? Who would not hasten to come to his health? But it is the dutie of the Gouernours to keepe the commaundement, and both to instructe them that either hasten, or bee ignoraunt, leaste that they which ought to be the Pastors of the sheepe, should become their but∣chers. For, to graunt those things that should turne to ones destruction, is to deceaue him, neither is the fallen reared vppon that fashion,

but by the displeasing of God, he is rather pushed downe to his ruine. Let them learne therefore euen of you that which they ought to teache you, &c.

What can be plainer spoken than these spéeches, to declare that these Elders which Cyprian writeth of, were such Gouernours, that both the ministration of the worde and sacraments pertayned to them, and were such as in plaine termes he calleth Pastors, and that they ought to teach?

Thus haue we séene howe all these Epistles which Beza citeth, for a college of gouerning Elders not medling with teaching of the worde, to haue béene no such kinde of Elders, as he and our Brethren do imagine but cleane contrarie. And though his quotation procéedeth further in a ge∣neralitie, & alys deinceps, and in other Epistles following: yet in none of his Epistles, eyther following, or going before, can I finde that he menti∣oneth any such Elders, as he and our Brethren do conceaue. In the 16. E∣pistle, speaking of the Presbyters, Priests or Elders, he sayth: whom our Elders and Deacons ought to haue warned, that they might nourish the sheepe committed to them, and by their diuine maistership, instruct thē vnto the way that is to be prayed for. In the 17. Epistle, hee saieth: I maruell, most deare Brethren (writing to the Elders and Deacons) that vnto many my Epistles which I haue often sent vnto you, you haue writ∣ten nothing againe. When as eyther the Profite or the necessitie of our brotherhoode should verily be thus gouerned, if that we being of you instructed, may file our counsell for the ordring of matters. Not-with∣standing because I see I haue not habilitie as yet to come vnto you, and nowe the sommer is begunne which time afflicteth men with continuall and greeuous infirmities: I thinke good to helpe our Brethren, as those that haue receaued libelles from the Martyrs, that if they be preuented with any hurt or daunger of infirmitie, they should not expect our pre∣sence. But that before any Elder beeing present, or if an Elder shall not be founde, and their ende beginne to vrge them, they may declare the confession of their trespasse, before a Deacon also, that hee laying his hande vpon them for their repentance, they may come vnto the Lorde with the peace, which the Martyrs in their letters giuen vnto vs, haue desired. The other part of the people that is fallen, nourish ye thē with your presence, and refresh them with your comforte, that they fall not away from the faith and mercie of the Lorde, &c.

In the next Epistle, writing again to the Elders and Deacons, (hauing receaued letters from them of the same matter) he sayth: I haue receaued your letters (most deere Brethren) in the which yee haue written, that your wholsome counsell vnto our Brethren is not wanting, that setting aside this rash haste making, they should giue vnto God a religious pa∣cience, that when by the mercie of God we shall come together, we may

treate of all kindes, according to the Ecclesiasticall discipline. Especial∣ly, when as it is written: Remember from whence thou hast fallen; and repent. But he repenteth, that is meeke and patient to the commaundements of God, and obedient to the Priestes of God▪ and winneth the Lorde, with his seruiceablenes and workers. Howbeit, because you haue signi∣fied, that certaine are immoderate, and doe vrge hastely to receaue the communion, and you haue desired a forme to be giuen of me vnto you for this matter: knowe ye that I haue fully written for this matter, in the last letters that I wrote vnto you. And so telleth them (as before) how they should lay their handes on them, and absolue them.

In the next Epistle, writing yet further vnto them on this matter: he sayth, But I haue read also the letters of all the Confessors, which they would haue made knowen by me to al my colleagues, and the peace that they haue giuen to come vnto them: of which matters so that a reason be apparant before vs, what they haue done after the fault committed: which thing, sithe it tendeth to the counsel and sentence of vs all:) I dare not iudge it before hande, and claime to me onely a matter common. And therefore let them stande on the Epistles which I last made, an ex∣ample wherof I haue also sent alreadie to my colleagues (he meaneth by this worde Colleagues not the Elders of his Colledge, for he wrote to thē, but other his fellowe Bishops) who haue written that that which wee haue decreed liketh them, &c. Here with some thinges he will not me∣dle alone, but with his Colleagues. And yet this decrée he made alone, and in his absence, as appeareth by the two former Epistles,

In the 22. Epistle, writing to the Elders and Deacons, he sayth: Least any thing should be hiddē from your conscience (most deere Brethren) what is written to me, I haue sent you a copie of eyther Epistle, and I beleeue, that which I haue written again to you, misliketh you not. But this also I ought by my letters to declare vnto you, that vppon vrgent cause I sent letters to the Clergie being in the citie: and because I should write by Clerkes: albeit I know that many of ours are absent, and as for those fewe which are there, do scarce suffice vnto the daily ministerie of the worke: it was necessarie to constitute some newe which shoulde bee sent, wit yee therefore, that I haue made Saturus a reader, and Optatus the Confessor a Sub-deacon. Whom we had made a good while since, by the last cōmon Clergie Counsell. When on Easter day we gaue once and twice the reading (or the lesson) eyther vnto Saturus or to Op∣tatus. With the Priestes (or Elders) Doctors and Readers we constitu∣ted a Doctor of the hearers (by the name of Doctors he meaneth the Ca∣techisers, as wee shewed of Pantenus, Clemens, Origene, &c.) exami∣ning whether all thinges agreed vnto them, that ought to bee in those that are appointed for the Clergie. I haue therefore done no new thing

in your absence, but that which began long a-go, by the common coun∣sell of vs all, is promoted (or aduaunced further) necesitie vrging it. Thus again doth he in his absēce promote to higher orders in the Clergie (as néede required) those whom before by their Counsell, he had begunne to choose into the Clergie. But still. for these Priestes or Elders, they were in the nūber of the Clergie, such as we haue before shewed, being Pastors, whom he placeth before the Doctors or Catechisers.

In the 24. Epistle, (allowing in his absence, a portion of his own sti∣pende, to helpe the poore persecuted amongest them) hee calleth Rogatian compresbyterum his fellowe Elder. Not that he had like authoritie to him, as Bishop: but, that he was of the same Priesthoode or Eldership of the worde and Sacraments, that Cyprian was.

And the next Epistle he directeth vnto nine other Bishops, whome hée calleth Coepiscopis his fellowe Bishops, item Compresbyteris & Diaconis in metallo constitutis martyribus, &c. and also to his fellowe Elders, and to the Deacons placed in the mines, the Martyrs of God the Father Al∣mightie and of Iesus Christ the Lorde & God our Sauiour, &c. And thus calling the one companie his fellowe Bishops, being none of them Bishop of Carthage, where he only was the B. though absent, & yet was not Car∣thage being so great a citie destitute of Pastors: and calling the other sort Compresbyteros and placing these Elders betwéene Bishops & Deacons, and withal distinguishing them from both of these; and giuing them the terme that S. Peter doth, of Compresbyter, fellow Elder, which S. Peter ascribeth to the Pastors: it is most manifest that he meaneth only by those Elders suche as were ministers of the word and Sacraments, but not Bishops.

In the next and last booke of his Epistles, he speaketh little of them, and writeth seldome to them. In the 4. Epistle writing to two Elders that had beene constant in persecution; he citeth vnto thē as part of their dutie, this sentence of Christ, Mat. 28. Goe and teach all Nations, baptizing them, in the name of the father, and of the sonne, and of the holy Ghoste, teaching them to ob∣serue whatsoeuer I haue commanded you, &c. when ye shall shew forth these precepts, you haue kept the diuine and heauenly commandements.

To conclude, the last of all his Epistles, is not the least to cōfirme this matter, what was the dignitie and office of these Elders, that were assi∣stantes to the B. in such great Cathedrall Churches, & such famous Cities as was Carthage. Cyprian to the Elders and to the Deacons & to all the people his most deere and best beloued Brethren, greeting.

Most dere Brethr. I haue to signifie vnto you, that which I haue thought appertayneth to the common reioysing, and to the greatest glory of our church. For, knowe ye, being admonished & instructed by the diuine fa∣uour, that the Elder Numidicus is to be enrolled in the number of the Elders of Carthage, and that he sit in the clergie, being famous with the

most cleare light of his confession, and aduanced with the honour both of vertue and faith, who by his exhortation hath sent before him a plen∣tifull number of Martyrs with stones & fire. Which ioyfully beh••lde his wife that cleued to his side, whē as together with other she was burned. He himselfe being halfe burned, and ouerwhelmed with stones, & lefte for dead. While that afterwardes his daughter with a carefull seruice of godlines seeketh the corps of her father, where he being founde almost dead, & refreshed, and drawen out from his companions whom he had sent before him, remained against his will. But this (as wee see) was the cause of his remayning that the Lorde would ioyne him vnto our Cler∣gie, and woulde adorne gloriosis Sacerdotibus, with his glorious Sacred Priests, the abundance of our Elders being desolate. And verily, he shall be promoted, as time shall permitte, vnto a more worshipfull place of his religion, when through the Lordes protection we shall come in pre∣sence. In the meane season, let this be done that is declared, that we may receiue this gift of God with thankes giuing, hoping that by the mercie of the Lord, such ornaments shall be also furnished, that renuing the strength of his Church, he wil make our so meeke and humbleconsisto∣ries, to flourish in honour.

Whereby we plainlie see, not onely the Bishoppes authoritie ouer the consistorie of the Elders, in making this Elder Numidicus, an Elder in the cleargie and consistorie of Carthage: but also that he was a Preacher & exhorter of the people. And that Cyprian vseth the name of Presbyter, and Sacerdos, indifferently, as betokning one and the same office for the which, we in English (wanting a proper name for Sacerdos) vse the con∣traction of the other better and lesse offensiue terme Presbyter, calling them Priestes, signifying héere Elders ministring the woorde and Sacra∣mentes. And of other sortes, whom Cyprian calleth Presbyteros, Priestes or Elders assistent to the Bishop in the gouernement of the Eccles. disci∣pline, I finde no mention, nor inkling of them in all the Epistles of Saint Cyprian. Neither cite I him in those editions, that the Papistes haue of late corrupted him. And therefore I maruell not a little, that such an ex∣cellent man as Beza is (God be praysed for his gifts in him) was so ouer∣shot to cite these Epistles of Cyprian, for a Consistory or Colledge of such Elders gouerned by a Bishop, which together with him should haue the spirituall iurisdiction, and the gouernment of Eccl. discipline, that were not ministers of the worde and Sacraments.

As for that which Gellius Snecanus citeth also out of Cyprians Epistles Epist. 2. lib. 1. there is no mention there at all of any other of the Clergie, then onely of Bishops, or of such Priestes as hee calleth Sacerdotes & Pa∣stores. Which Epistle being written to Cornelius Bishop of Rome, by Cyprian and a great number of other Bishops of Aphrica, ioyned in

counsell with him: he vseth there this terme Colleagues, meaning other Bishops that were of his owne function. But if (sayth he) there shall bee any of the Colleagues, which when persecution vrgeth them, thinketh the peace should not be giuen to our brothers and sisters: let him in the day of iudgement render a reason to the Lorde, eyther of his importune censure, or of his inhumaine roughnes. Is this any thing to any gouer∣ning Elder in the Church that is not a minister of the worde and Sacra∣mentes? As for any other Colleagues eyther of those that hee wrote of, or wrote vnto, or that wrote with him, in this or anie other Epistle: I finde none. Nor our Brethren can shew any such Elders as they vrge vnto vs, in all these Epistles, or any other worke of Cyprian.

But because Gellius Snecanus adioyneth also the testimonie of Tertul∣lian in his Apologie against the Gentiles, cap. 39. which wee haue like∣wise alreadie séene, for the manner and forme of the primitiue Churche, in their publike prayers: neuerthelesse, to the fuller serch of these Elders which our Brethren would haue, let vs againe consider what Tertullian sayth, especially he going not onely immediately before Cyprian, about the yeare of our Lorde, 200. but being in such estimation with Cyprian that he alwayes called him his Maister. I will nowe my selfe (sayth Ter∣tullian) set foorth the affayres of the Christian faction, that I which haue refuted the euill thinges, may shewe the good. We are a bodie of the conscience of religion, and of the truth of discipline, and of the co∣uenant of hope. We come together into an assembly and congregation that praying vnto God (as though by prayers wee strined for workes) this force is acceptable vnto God. We pray also for the Emperours, for their ministers and powers, for the state of the worlde, for the quietnes of their affayres, and for the prolonging of their ende. We are gathered together to the reciting of the diuine scriptures, if so be that, the qualitie of the present time doe compell vs to giue fore-warning, or to reknow∣ledge it. Certainely we feede our faith with the holy speeches, we erecte our hope, we fixe our confidence. Neuerthelesse, we thicken (or encrease) the discipline of the maisters, (or of the praecepts) by prouocations or in∣culcations. At the same place are also exhortations, chasticements & the diuine correction: for the iudgement is giuen with great waight, as a∣mong them that are sure that God beholdes them. And it is the chiefest foreiudgeing of the iudgement to come, if any man do so trespasse, that he be banished from the communicating of prayer and of the assemblie and of all the holy partaking. The Praesidents or Gouernours are all of them approoued Seniors, hauing obteyned this honour not with price, but with testimonie.

What is there here in any of these wordes, to prooue that these Elders which (as hee termeth it) praesidebant did gouerne the congregations,

medl••d not with teaching? Or rather doth he not ascribe teaching to thē? When 〈◊〉〈◊〉 saith, Wee are a corps of the conscience of religion, of truth, of discipline, and of the couenant of hope? When he saith, their comming together was for praiers, and for recording the Scriptures? When ha∣uing added how they fed their faith with the word of God, erecting their hope, and fixing their confidence, they ioyne this withall, that neuerthe∣lesse they do increase the discipline of the maisters by their inculcations or often calling vpon them? Or if we should conster these wordes Disci∣plinam praeceptorum, for the discipline, not of the maisters, but of the pre∣cepts: so that we take it not that they did increase the discipline of mens commandements. And doth he not also ioyne exhortations together with castigations of the diuine censure? By all which and much more, we may well gather out of this place, that these Praesidents or gouernours of these congregations were not such as medled not with teaching. For if the Elders not teaching were gouerned (as Beza said) in their Colleges and corpora••ions, of the Bishops: howe were these Elders the praesidents or Gouernours or not rather the gouerned? And hee speaketh of them that obtained the honour of their gouernment or Praesidentship, not by price of money, but by testimonie. All which accordeth with our Breth owne sai∣••ngs, for the election of Bishops and pastorall Elders. And hee speaketh of such tried and approued Elders, as Paule in pastorall Elders gaue charge to Timothie. But when withall, he vseth for their gouernment, that verie terme which he vsed in other places, speaking also of the Christian assem∣blies, as in his booke de Corona militis, where he saith: Eucharistia Sacramen∣tum et in tempore victus, et omnibus, mandatum a Domino, etiam ante-lucanis coetibus, nec de aliorum manu quam de praesidentium sumimus. The Sacrament of thanksgiuing is commanded of the Lord, both in the time of repast, & in al times, yea also in our assēblies before the breake of the daie, neither do we receiue it at the hand of anie other thā of those that are our Praesidēts (or Gouernors.) Whereby it is plaine, that those of whom heere he saith, Praesident probati qui{que}, Sentores, the Seniors that are Praesidents (or that gouerne) are euerie one of them tried (or approued) men: wer euerie one of them none other, but such as ministred the Sacramēts, & of consequence, teachers of the word. And of such Elders gouerning in y^e Church of Christ, & of none other, speaketh Clemens Alexandrius (who also was an elder in office, & in time was somwhat elder thā Tertulliā) li. 6. Siromat. He is in verie deed (saith he) an elder of the Church & a true Deacon, that is a mi∣nister of Gods wil, if so be he do & teach the things that are of the Lord, not that as he is ordained of mē, neither that he must be accoūted righte∣ous that is an elder, but that he which is righteous should be brought in∣to the eldership, &c. Wherein making also afterward the degrée of Elder to be in dignitie different from, & placed betwéene Bishop & Deacon: he ac∣knowledgeth

no such kinde of Elder gouerning the Church in hi•• time, that is not a teacher of the word.

And the same also is manifest in Irenaeus, who in his first booke against heresies, ca. 12. saith against the heretike Marcus: Wherefore iustlie and aptlie vnto such thy blindnesse, the diuine Elder and fit preacher of the truth inueighed against thee, &c. And in the 2. booke, cap. 39. speaking both of Elder in age and office, he saith of Christ: And so hee was a Senior (or Elder) among the Seniors, that he might be a perfect master in al things, not only according to the exposition of the truth, but according to age▪ sanctifieng together also the Seniors (or Elders) himselfe becomming an example vnto thē, &c. And againe, But because the age of 30. yeres, is of a young man of his first towardnesse, and stretcheth to 40. euerie one wil graunt that from the 40. or 50. yeres, he now declineth into an elder age, which age our Lord hauing, he taught, as the Gospell & all the Elders te∣stifie, which assembled together vnto Iohn the Disciple of the Lord. And the same thing did Iohn deliuer vnto thē. Now although herein Iraeneus fouly ouer shoote himselfe in Christs age, more regarding the relation and tradition of the Elders, than exactlie considering the iust time: yet still he ac∣knowledgeth those that were called Elders, not in yéeres but in office, con∣cerning the Ecclesiasticall state of Christ his Church, to be such as taught y^e witnesse & relation of those things that were deliuered them by the Apo∣stles, though they remembred not so well the Apostles reckoning. And this he hath more plaine, li. 3. ca. 2. when againe we chalenge them that are a∣gainst the tradition, to come to that traditiō which is from the Apostles, which is kept in the Churches by the succession of the Elders, they will say, they being more wise, not only than the Elders, but also than the A∣postles, haue found out the sincere truth. And li. 4. ca. 43. Wherfore it be∣houeth vs to heare these Elders that are in the Church, those which haue their succession from the Apostle, as wee haue shewed, who with the suc∣cession of the Bishop, haue (according to the decree of the Father) recei∣ued a sure grace (or gift) of the truth. And in the next Chapter: But such as of many are supposed to be Elders, but serue their pleasures, &c. frō all such therefore we must abstaine, & cleaue vnto these, which (as wee haue also said before) keepe the doctrine of the Apostles, & with their order of the Eldership, shew forth the sound word & their conuersation without offence, to the information and correction of the residue. Wherunto al∣leaging the examples of Moses, Samuel, and S. Paul, he saith: Euen as the Apostle Paul when he was of good conscience, sayde to the Corinthians: For we are not as many are, adulterating the word of God, wee haue corrupted n••ne, we haue circūuented none, such Elders doth the church nourish: Of whō also the Prophet saith: And I will giue thee thy Princes in peace, and thy Bishops in righ∣••eousnesse. Of whom also the Lord said: VVho therefore is a faithfull agent,

good, and wise, whom the Lord shall preferre ouer his familie, to giue them meate in time? Happie is that seruant whom the Lord shall find so doing when he cōmeth. What can be plainer than this, to shew that by the name of these Presby∣ters, Priests, or Elders in the gouernment of the Church, Irenaeus alwaies meant such, as were teachers of the word, and none other?

Iustine the martyr in his defence of the Christians vnto the Emperour Antoninus, mencioneth (as we haue séene) one onlie gouernor of the con∣gregation, whom he calleth the chiefe brother. But he telleth withal, that he maketh the exhortation to the congregation before the receiuing of the Sacrament, & he offereth the praiers and thankesgiuing▪ & first celebrateth the whole action of the Lords supper, & the Deacons deliuer the bread & the cup, to euerie one present, & of other Elders or Gouernors among thē, that I can find he maketh no mencion. As for Ignatius, because our Bre. in their pamphlet of the learned mans iudgemēt for the 3. kinds of Bishops, do allow of the Bishop mencioned in Ignatius: by as good reason they haue also to allow of his Elders & Deacons. For almost in euery Epistle (if they be the Epistles of Ignatius) he mencioneth especiallie these thrée, & maketh the Elders the successors of the Apostles. In the first Epistle to the Tralli∣ans, he saith: Be ye subiect to the Elders, as to the Apostles of Iesu Christ concerning our hope, in whō perseuering, we shal be found in him. And therfore ye must by all meanes please the Deacons, which are for the mi∣nisterie of Iesus Christ, for they are not ministers in meate and drink, but of the ministerie of the Church of God. It behoueth therefore to keepe their precepts, euen as the burning fire. And let them be such, but as for you: reuerence ye them as the Lord Iesus Christ, because they are the ke∣pers of his place, as the bishop is the forme of the Father of al, but the El∣ders of the consistorie of God, and ioyning together of the Apostles of Christ, for without them it is not the elected church, nor the collection of the Saints, nor the holie Congregation. And again. What is the Eldership but a holie institution of a counsellour or confessour of a Bishop. What also are the Deacons but followers of Christ ministering to the Bishop, as Christ to the Father, and working vnto him a cleane & vnspottrd work, euen as Saint Stephen vnto the most blessed Iames, and Timothie, & Li∣nus vnto Paul and Anacletus, and Clement vnto Peter. And in the 4. Epi∣pistle to the Philippians: Yet I saie to the Bishop and to the Elders in the Lord, that who soeuer shall keepe the Passeouer with the Iews, or take vp the solemnitie of their feast daies, shall be compartner with them that haue killed the Lorde and his Apostles.

These and such other spéeches of the Presbyteral Elders do declare, that whosoeuer in Ignatius name wrote thē, for I dare not so boldly (as our Br. doe) affirme them to bee his, yet in writing thus of the Consistorie of the Elders) yea, of the Deacons vnder them, hee thought them both to meddle

with teaching, and with the administration of the Sacraments. As for the Epistle that is adioyned in the name of Polycarpus & the Elders with him, it is most manifest howe they ioyned teaching to their gouerning. Let the Elders bee simple, in all things, mercifull, conuerting all from er∣rour, visiting all the sicke, not neglecting the widowes, the fatherlesse and the poore, but alwaies prouiding good things before the Lorde, and be∣fore mē. As for anie other y^t is more suspected stuffe, I cite not. But be they suspected, or be they not, as I graunt they are verie auncient: so we can finde in none of them, such Elders mencioned, as our Br. threape vpon vs y^t there were, neither yet in anie ancient & autentike Ecclesiasticall historie.

For as for that Danaeus writing of the office of Elders, in Christ. Isa∣gog, part. 2. cap. 10. citeth, saying: Lites ••utem dirimere, &c. But to de∣cide debates, and (as out of Socrates, lib. 7. cap. 37. may be gathered) to behaue themselues as Iudges and arbiters, I neuer read that it was the function of Elders, or parte of their office. This proueth nothing at all, that the Cleargie of whome Socrates there speaketh, were not Ministers of the worde and Sacraments: but rather séemeth to inferre that the•• were, and that the Bishop of whome Socrates speaketh, woulde not hau•• them drawe too much awaie from their function, to the hearing and deter∣mining of such controuersies. Albeit Socrates telleth that Siluanus the Bi∣shop did it, when as hee sawe the Clarkes to make a gaine by the contro∣uersies of the striuers, that from thence forth hee permitted none of the Cleargie to be a Iudge, but taking the bils of those that made supplicati∣ons, he preferred one faithfull laie man, whom he knewe to fauour that which was ••ight and good, to haue the hearing of those matters, and so he set free the striuers from contention and controuersie. Here the Cleargie that had the dealing in those matters, the Bishop by his superior authoritie tooke it frō thē, & appointed it not to the consistorie of Elders, but to one lai•• man. But to shew more fullie and plainlie that Socrates alwaies vnder∣stands by the tearme of Elders, onely such as we call Priestes, to wit, Mini∣sters of the worde and Sacraments: Let vs also sée some testimonies out of Socrates, because Danaeus citeth him for these Elders. And I would glad∣ly search all the testimonies & examples generallie, if that Caluine, Beza, & Danaeus, or anie other author haue ought, for the proofe or but probabiliti•• of these Elders.

In the 3. Chap. of his first booke, he saith: And on a certaine time, the Presbyters, (Priests, or Elders) being present which were vnder him, (he speaketh of Alexander, Bishoppe of Alexandria) and the residue of the Cleargie, hee treated somewhat more curiouslie and subtillie of the Trinitie, and philosophicallie proued, that in the Godhead there is the vnitie in the Trinitie. But Arius beeing one of the number of the Elders, which in that degree were placed vnder Alexander,

a man not ignorant of the quirkes of Logicke, because he suspected that he would afresh bring into the Church the errour of the Affricane Sabel∣lius, being kindled with the desire of contention, declined to an opinion cleane contrarie to the opinion of that Affricane, and affirmed, that if the Father begat the sonne, he that was begotten had a beginning of his be∣ing. And that thervpon it is cleere, that there was a time when the sonne was not, & that necessarily it followed, that he had his being of nothing. When he had concluded with this new kinde of reason, and neuer before heard of: he stirred vp many of them to seeke after those matters, and of a little sparke was kindled a great great flame, &c. Wherevpon Alexander calling a councell of many Bishops, he deposed (saith Socrates) Arius, and the fautors of his opinion, from the degree of the Eldership. By which it plainly appeareth, that these elders were ministers and teachers of the worde.

And to this not onelie accordeth Ruffinus, lib. 10. Eccl. hist. cap. 1. sai∣••ng: A certaine Elder at Alexandria named Arius, a man more religious in shew and forme than vertue, began to set forth certaine wicked points concerning the faith of Christ, &c. And Theodoretus, lib. 1. cap. 2. yet more plainlie: In these times (saith he) Arius which was in the companie and order of the Elders, and had the authority of interpreting the diuine Scriptures. When he saw the gouernment of the Sacerdotall Priesthood or Bishopricke, to be committed to Alexander, being impatient of enuie wherewith he was chafed, he began to seek occasions of prouokements, of discords and striuings. And albeit the dignity of the man, and his lau∣dable administration, brake off the web of all slaunders, yet coulde not enuie let him rest. The enimie therefore of truth hauing gotten this fel∣low, he moued and stirred vp the waues of the Church, and so prouoked him, that he durst openly gainsay the Apostolical doctrine of Alexander. As for Alexander, he auouched the speeches of the diuine Scripture, that the sonne is of the same dignitie with the Father, and hath the same es∣sence with his begetter. But Arius fighting against the truth, called him a creation and a worke made. Adding those wordes, that there was some time when he was not. Which things may better be knowen out of the Scriptures themselues. These things did he not only in the Churches con∣tinually, but also in other outward assemblies and meetinges, and trea∣ting vpon them house by house, hee drue awaie as many as hee was a∣ble.

And yet to shew further, not onely that this order of Elders was aboue the Deacons, but that of Deacons they were made Elders: Sozomenus li. 1. cap. 14. saith: Of these disputations Arius was the author, an Elder of the Church of Alexandria which is in Aegypt. Who although at the be∣ginning he seemed very studious of the doctrine of Christ: yet was hee a

furtherance to Meletius, attempting new matters. Whos•• parts when he forsooke, he was of Peter Bishop of Alexandria ordained Deacon, And afterward of him cast out of the Church, whē Peter deposed the fautors of Meletins, and improued Baptisme. This Arius inueighed grieuously a∣gainst the Acts of Peter, and could by no meanes bee quiet. But when Peter had suffered martyrdome, Arius crauing pardon of Achillas, was not onely permitted to exercise his Deaconship, but also was exalted to the degree of the Eldership. Afterward Alexander had him in great estimati∣on, &c.

By this it may not onely appeare that the orders and Senates of Elders in such great Churches as these, were Ministers of the worde, but also were thereto promoted, hauing before ben Deacons. When therfore we reade in Socrates (as in the restoring of Athanasius, lib. 2. cap. 18.) th•• Letters of the Emperour Constantinus directed vnto the Bishops and to the Elders of the Catholike Church, saying: Moreouer, vnto the benefit bestowed on him, this also we thought good to bee noted, that all those that are inrolled into this holie number and companie of the Cleargie, may vnderstand, that securitie is giuen vnto all, be they Bishoppes or bee they Clarkes, that haue holden with him: it argueth, that there was indéed such a companie of Elders, whom heere hée calleth Clearks, but we cannot gather hereupon, that they were such as ministred not at all the word and Sacraments, but rather the contrarie. For else if Athanasius the Bishop had beene the onely Minister of the word and Sacramente••, all the people of Alexandria had beene destitute of the worde and Sacramentes all the while of Athanasius banishment. And to confirme this, that these Elders about the Bishops had not onely the publike ministration of the word, but also that some one or other of their number, was appointed to heare the cō∣fessions of such as wer penitent, and in token of their vnfained repentance, to inioyne them to submit themselues to some bodilie chastisement, which therevpon was called penance:

At that time (saith Socrates, li. 5. ca. 19.) the Church thought good, that the Elders which had the gouernment of the order of inioyning penitēce in euerie Church, was takē awaie. And that on this occasion: frō the time wherein the Nouatians separated themselues from the Church, & refu∣sed to communicate with those, which in the time of the persecution rai∣sed in the raigne of Decius, had fallen: the Bishops of the Churches ad∣ded vnto the Canon, that in euerie of the Churches there should bee one certain Elder, which shuld be ouer the Penitencies, to the end, that those which after Baptisme were fallen, should before the Elder appointed for that purpose, confesse their offences. This Canon as yet among other sects remaineth ratified and firme. They onely which confesse the Father and

the Sonne to be one in substance, and the Nouatians that consent in faith with them, reiected this Penitenciarie Elder. The Nouatians would neuer from the beginning suffer this to be so much as a hanger by. The bishops which now gouern the Churches, althogh for a good space of time they haue held this institution: notwithstāding in the times of the Bishop Ne∣ctarius, they chaunged the same, by reason of such an offence as then by chance was committed in the Church: a certaine noble womā came vn∣to the Penitenciarie Elder, confessing particularlie such faultes as after her Baptisme she had committed. The Elder commaunded the woman that she should giue her selfe to fastings, and to continuall praiers. Wher∣by together with the acknowledgment of her sinnes, shee shoulde declare a worke meete for her repentaunce. The woman proceeding further in confessing, accuseth her selfe of another fault, and declareth that a Dea∣con had laine with her. For the which offence (by this meanes beeing made manifest) the Deacon was driuen out of the Church, and a tumult was made among the multitude of the people. For they grudged not onelie against the offence committed, but also for the note of the grie∣uous slaunder and reproch, that thereby was raised on the Church. Whē as therefore the sacred Priests were verie much euill spoken on for this cause, Eudaemon a certaine Elder of the Church, a Countrieman of Alex∣andria, gaue counsell to the Bishoppe Nectarius to remoue the Peniten∣ciarie Elder, and to giue free power that euery one according to his own conscience, should come to the participation of the mysteries. For by that onelie meanes it should come to passe, that the Church shoulde bee voide of all spot of infamie. These things because (sayth Socrates) euen I my selfe had them of Eudaemon, I doubted not plainly to commit them to this our historie.

In which wordes, these Elders hauing this office among them, which pertaineth especiallie to the ministration of the worde, and all of them indifferentlie called Sacerdotes, as well as Presbyteros: it is againe ap∣paraunt, by Socrates whom•• Danaeus citeth, that these Elders were not such, as héere our Brethren doe conceiue or pretend, but Ministers of the worde and Sacramentes, which in the next Chapter (saue one) follow∣ing, doeth yet more fullie appeare. Where Socrates shewing the diuer∣sities in diuerse places, concerning Easter daie, Fasting, Marriage Di∣uine Seruice, and other Ecclesiasticall obseruation, amongest other mat∣ters, saith on this wise.

Moreouer, I my selfe haue knowen another custome to haue growen in Thessalia, that there he which is a Cleark, if after he be made a Cleark, he lie with his wife whom he married while hee was a laie man, is deposed from his Cleargie. Whereas all the famous Elders in the East, yea, the

Bishops and all, are by no lawe compelled to abstaine from their wiues, except it please themfelues. For euen while they gouerne their Bishop∣rikes, not a few of them beget children of their lawfull wiues. Hee that was the author of that custome in Thessalia, was Heliodorus of Trica, a ci∣tie of that region, of whose making are the amorous bookes, which hee composed when he was a young man, and intituled them, The Aethiopi∣an historie (hee meaneth that of Theagenes and Cariclea:) The same cu∣stome is kept also at Thessalonica, and in Macedonia, and in Hellas. Be∣sides this I haue knowen another custome in Thessalia, to wit, that they baptize in the dayes of the feast of Easter onely. For which cause, all of them (except a very few) die without baptisme. The Church of Antioche in Syria is set contrarie to other Churches, for the Altar (or Communion table) is not set Eastward, but Westward. In Hellas, and at Hierusalem, & at Thefsalia, the prayers are made while the candles are lighted, after the manner of the Nouatians that are at Constantinople. In like manner at Caesarea of Cappadocia, and in Cyprus, the Elders and the Bishops ex∣pound the Scriptures euermore on Saterday and on Sonday, at euening by candle light. The Nouatians that are at Hellespont, keepe not in all pointes the like manner, as doo the Nouatians that are at Constantino∣ple, but for the more parte they followe the order of the chiefe Church a∣mong them. To conclude, in all the formes of religions & sects, you shall neuer finde two, that in the maner of their praiers agree among them∣selues. Furthermore, at Alexandria an Elder preacheth not, which cu∣stome hath had his beginning, since the time that Arius disturbed the Church.

And here at length is noted, where onely, and vppon what occasion, the Elders preached not. Howbeit he saith not, that heerevpon they were pro∣hibited vtterlie the ministerie of the word and Sacramentes. For as hee shewed before lib. 2. cap. 8. the verie Deacons out of whole order the El∣ders were made, did saie the publike praiers before the people. But this the Elders ceasing of preaching, how long ti••e after Arius troubles it be∣gan at Alexandria, & how long time it continued: he declareth not. But in noting the same (as such a strange and diuerse order, different from al other Churches) it declareth, that it directly belonged to their office, and that in al other Churches the Elders were such, as were not prohibited to preach, & that they preached there also, before that occasion did fall out. And where∣as as a little after hee citeth (for not troubling the Church about indifferent things) the decree made by the Apostles, the Elders, and the brethren, Act 15.23. it appeareth that Socrates tooke also those Elders that are ther•• mencioned, to be no other kinde of Elders, than such as medled with teach∣ing. And so doth the verie text insinuate, that those Elders were, when it saith, Act. 15.6. The Apostles and Elders came together to looke to this matter.

Which matter was a great controuersie in doctrine. And Caluine himself saith t••ereon: Luke saith not that the whole Church was gathered toge∣ther, but those that excelled in doctrine and iudgement, & they that by reason of their office, were lawfull Iudges of this cause, it may be that the disputation was holden before the people, but least anie shoulde thinke that the people wer admitted indifferentlie to meddle in the cause: Luke expresly nameth the Apostles and the Elders, as those that were more fit to take notice therof. And to shew further who these Elders were, he saith on these words: When there was great disputing: when as the graue men and publike Doctors of the Church were chosen, neither yet could they agree among themselues, &c.

And to shew that these Elders in all other Churches wer•• still of thi•• ••orte, Socrates procéeding to his 6. booke, chap. 2. telleth, that when the Bi∣shoprick of Constantinople was vacant by Nectarius decease, which tooke awaie the penitenciarie Elder aforesayde, and that they laboured much a∣bout the choosing of a Bishoppe, and some sought one, and some ano∣ther for that office; & that they had consulted often thervpon: at length it was thought good to call from Antioche, for Iohn an Elder of Anti∣oche. For the fame of him was great, that he was meete to teach them, & very skifull in the gift of vtterance.

And in the seuenth booke (which Danaeus citeth) cap. 2. speaking of Atti∣cus, which was afterward likewise made Bishoppe of Constantinople, he saith: When he first obtained the degree of the Presbyterie, Priesthood, or Eldership, the Sermons which he recited in the Church, he made them with great studie, and conned word by word: afterward by often vse and diligence getting more audacitie, he beganne to preach ex tempore (on the sodaine occasion) and attained to a more popular manner of tea∣ching.

And in the 5. Chapter he ••e••••eth of Sabatius an Elder among the Noua¦tians preaching in his Sermon this false doctrine: Cursed bee he who soeuer celebrateth the feast of Easter without vnleauened bread.

In the sixth Chapter be telleth of two Arian Elders preachers and in∣terpreters of the Scriptures.

Besides that, Chap. 16. hee telleth of three Elders, Philip, Proclus, and Sisinius, that ••too•• ••or the Bishoprike of Constantinople of which Sifinius by the desire of the people, hee beeing an Elder not ordained in anie Church within the Citie, but of Elea a suburbe of the Citie, obtained the Bishoprike. Wherby it appeareth also, that these Elders had seueral Con∣gregations and Churches in and about the Citie, and were Ministers of the worde and Sacraments in them. And although Proclus was afterward made Bishop of Cizicum, whom the Citie would not receiue, but chose on•• Dalmatius a Monke, and so Proclus went not thether, but continued in

preaching at Constantinople, and afterward was made Bishoppe of that Citie, after Maximianus, which did leade a monasticall life, yet by degree of dignitie he was an Elder. So that these Presbyters, Priestes, or Elders were not (as Danaeus supposeth) a Senate or a Consistorie chosen from a∣mong the people assistant to the Bishop: and much lesse to euerie Pastor, (as our Brethr. affirme) gouerning onelie the discipline of the Church, but not medling with teaching: Socrates neuer speaketh of such kinde of Elders, but simplie and plainely of such as we call Priests, and our brethren call Pastors.

To conclude this no lesse appeareth in the last Capter (saue two) of all Socrates Historie: euen in Paulus the Bishoppe of the Nouatians. Who before his death calling together all the sacred Priestes of the Churches that were vnder him, sayde vnto them. Prouide yee, while I am yet a∣liue, that a Bishoppe may bee appointed vnto you. When they aunswe∣red: The power of choosing the Bishoppe is not to bee permitted vnto vs. For (saie they) while one of vs thinketh this, another that, we shal neuer name one and the same man. But wee desire that you woulde designe, whome you would haue vs choose. Deliuer me then (sayd hee) this your promise in writing, that yee will choose him whom I will name vnto you. Which writing beeing made, and subscribed with their hande, raising vp himselfe a little in his bedde: he secretlie (they that were present not pri∣uie thereto) wrote therein the name of Martian, which was one that had obtained to the order of the Elders, and therein had learned a rigorous kinde of life, and at that time by chance was absent. And when hee had sealed vp the writing, and had brought the chiefe of the Elders to con∣firme the same also with their seales: he deliuered it to, &c. I note this onelie that these Nouatians also, which were a kinde of Praecisians in that antiquitie, hauing for their precise austeritie of life, cut off and diuided thē∣selues from all other Churches (albeit in substance and groundes of faith and doctrine not dissenting, but in profession of more seuere discipline) not onely had their Bishops in the chiefe Cities, and many Elders vnder them: but also that these Elders (as in all other Churches) were Saceraotes, Mini∣sters of the sacred word and Sacraments, and not such as medled not with teaching, or were equall in the Churches gouernment with the Bishop.

This we sée was the continuall and vniuersall practise of the Church, from the Apostles times, vntill this age, when Ambrose, Ierome, and Au∣gustine began to flourish. Neither ani•• thing as yet aleadged by Beza, Cal∣luine, Snecanus, and Danaeus out of Ambrose, or Cyprian, or Iustine, or Tertullian, or anie other auncient father: or out of Socrates, or Sozomene, or anie other Ecclesiasticall Historiographer, that can proue their Ecclesia∣sticall Elder gouerning only and not teaching: but all these (as wée haue séen) shew the cleane contrarie.

But yet we haue not doone. Danaeus besides and before Socrates allea∣geth Saint Augustine Serm. 19. De verbis Domini in Matthe••m, for proofe of such gouerning & not teaching Elders▪ Now although there he no like∣likelihood, we should finde mencion of those in Saint Augustine, that liued some what after Socrates time, and the Fathers aforesaide: yet because I would gladlie sée all, that for my part I can finde in anie of our brethren, for the practise & proofe of these Elders, what office they had, both for mine own and for others satisfaction: let vs view also what these wordes are, which Danaeus vnderstandeth for these Elders. Saint Augustine treating of the stipends of souldiours, and of their spoiles and hauocks, saith on this wise: Illud autem quale est, quum ob errorem aliquem a Senioribus arguuntur, &c. But what manner of thing is that, when for some errour they are reproued of the Elders, and anie of them is charged, why he was dronke, why he in∣uaded other mens goods, why in his hurlie burlie hee committed man∣slaughter: that he wil answere, what shuld I haue done? I am a secular mā, or a souldior. Am I professed a Monk or a Clerk? As though it wer lawful for euery one that is not a Monk, or a clerk, to do that which is vnlawful?

Here indéede is mencioned this word Elders, & that in the Latine terme, Seniores. But so generally: that whether he meane Senior or elder in yeres or in office: and if in office, whether ciuill or Ecclesiasticall; and if Eccle∣siasticall, whether medling with teaching, yea, or no: no, necessarie certain∣tie can be grounded heerevpon. Is there any word heere, or going before. or comming after, that may proue these Elders reprouing these souldiours not to meddle with teaching? Or may we not rather (if we shal go by cō∣iecture) a great deale more probably gather the cleane contrary, that they medled with teaching, & with reprehension, which is also part of the Mini∣sters office? And namelie the example that S. Augustine in the said sermon bringeth hereof (for S. Iohn Baptists teaching the Publicans & souldiours their dutie what they ought to do) doth plainly in••inuate, that he meaneth here by these Seniors or Elders, the verie teachers of the word, and Mini∣sters of the Sacraments, as was Iohn Baptist that reproued, taught, and baptized the souldiors. August. li. 1▪ Quaestionū super Genes. Quaest. 70. saith: In the Latine tong Presbyter is called Senior. Li. 6. Locutionum Iosue. Not euery senior is an old man, but euery old man may be called a senior: And in no place that I can find he vseth the word Presbyter, as a tearme to bee vsed among vs, but either (as there) for an elder in yeeres, or els, for an el∣der in office, & that not onely Ecclesiasticall, but also in the very ministerie of the word & Sacraments. When the Manichees defaced & discredited the Clergy for their liues (wherin would to God our Br. would not resemble that practise of so euil men) S. Aug. cōmending the Clergie li. ••. De moribus Eccl. Cath. ca. 32. saith: Neither yet are the maners of the Catholik church so straightned, that I shuld think their liues whō I haue reckned vp to be

onely commended: for how many Bishoppes excellent and most holy men haue I knowen? How many Elders? How many Deacons, and such like Ministers of the diuine Sacraments, &c?

Likewise in his questions, Ex vtro{que} mixtim, Quest. 101. where he proueth that the Elders are in office and dignitie aboue the Deacons, v••••ng this name Sacerdos and Presbiter indifferentlie, and as betokening all one of∣fice, concluding thus: For except the Priest vnto whome they owe atten∣dance, the Deacons are placed before all, meaning all the other inferiour orders Ecclesiasticall. ••o that Augustine acknowledgeth no such gouer∣ning and not teaching Ecclesiasticall orders, as our Breth. woulde haue, preferring withal these Elders before the Deacons, and preferring the tea∣chers and Pastors before these Elders, but not in the Churches gouernmēt. If there had bene anie such in S. Augustines time, other than the Priestes, Ministers of the word, and between the Priests and the Deacons: he could neuer haue placed the Deacons aboue all other, saue the ministring Priests. Whereby it is plaine, that hee counteth Elders and Priestes to b••e all one.

Yea, Danaeus himselfe procéeding a little further, in this foresayd tenth Chapter of these Elders, alleadgeth Augustine héereunto, in his ••iftie Ho∣milies, Homil. 5. &. 7. that the saying of Esaie, Clama, ne cesses, &c. appertai∣neth not onelie to Bishoppes but to Elders. The wordes of Augustine are these, Homil. 7. If ye marke diligently (most deere Brethren) ye know that all the Priests of the Lord, not onely the Bishops, but also the Elders and Ministers of the Churches, are in great perill. For the holy Ghost witnes∣seth vnto them, saying: Crie out, cease not, lift vp thy voice like as it were a trumpet, and tell my people their offences, and the house of Iacob their sinnes. Is not this, lifting vp of the voice, a medling with the worde and publike preaching or teaching? So that Danaeus must néede confesse, that these Elders which Saint Augustine mencioneth, were not such as med∣led not with teaching, but were publike teachers or Preachers of Gods worde.

To conclude, concerning Augustine, here is nothing that Danaeus allea∣geth for Elders out of him Homil. 7. in 50. Serm. 16. in Math. & 18. & in Luc. 1. Serm. 24. that maketh anie mencion at all, or anie inkling of suspition for such Elders, as our Brethren imagine, and Danaeus would proue: but are all for Pastorall Elders, medling with teaching. Neither onlie meddle not these places with anie of these supposed Elders: but also no other place that I can yet finde out, in all the Tomes and writings of Saint Augu∣stine.

But Danaeus alleadgeth not onelie Saint Augustine, but Basil, Dioni∣sius, & Hierome. And in his seuenth Chapter Isagog. Christ. parte. 2. he ••aith.

But these orders that are appointed for euer in the Church of God

remaining in this earth and visible are few. Which Basile vpon the 33. Psalme, seemeth obscurely to reuoke vnto foure kindes, to wit, that some of them should be as it were the eies, as the Seniors: other like the tong, as the Pastors: other like the hands, as the Deacons: other like the feete as those that attend vpon the baser ministeries of the Church, as are the doore keepers.

It goeth hard belike with our Breth. for the proofe of these Elders, when such obscure coniectures out of the Fathers, must vnderprop them. And here is alleaged a sentence out of Basil, which notwithstanding Danaeus dare not auouch, to make any cléere or plain assertion for these Elders. But he saith, that Basil seemeth, and that obscurely, to reuoke (all the perpetu∣all orders of the Ecclesiasticall ministerie in the Church) vnto 4. kindes, whereof he maketh these Seniors or Elders to bee the first, and compareth thē vnto the eles. Indéede this is well added, to saie he séemeth obscurelie, for if we shall bring Basils sentence to the light, there is not one word that maketh for these Seniors. Basil vpon the 33 (or as we better accoūt it w^t the Hebrues the 34.) Psalme, verse. 15. The eies of the Lord are vppon the righte∣ous, and his eares on their crie, hath these words: Euen as the Saintes are the bodie of Christ, and in part members: and God hath placed these in the Church as eies, those as eares, other as hauing a proportiō of the hands, other of the feete: so also the holy spirituall vertues (or powers) occupi∣ed about the holie place, some of them are called the eies, to whom the care of vs is committed; so the eares, which receiue our praiers, and refer (or bring) them to God. But now this our vertue or power contempla∣tiue and helping of our praiers, he called the eles and the eares. The eies therfore of the Lord are vpon the righteous and his eares on their praiers because all the action of the righteous is fit to be holden and considered of God. And to conclude, euerie woorde (sith nothing is of him spoken idlely) standeth fruitfull & very profitable. Therefore he saith here, that the righteous is continually both seene and heard.

Thus saith Basill. And is there any word here that may so much as but obscurely seeme, to infer these our brethrens Gouerning elders not med∣ling with teaching, to be any of those that hee calleth the vertue or power contēplatiue, which he resembleth in the mysticall bodie of Christ vnto the eies? And who then are these which hee compareth to the eares? if (as Daneus saith) he compareth the Pastors to the tongue, which he doth not, nor maketh there any application at all either of the tongue, or of the handes, or of the feete: but onely of the eies and eares. And likeneth the eies to those, vnto whome the care of vs is committed. And the eares to those which receiue our praiers, and referre or bring them vnto God▪ Wher∣by as it is plaine, that by the eares, he meaneth the Ministers, which make the publike praiers vnto God for vs: So what letteth but by the eyes, to

whome he ascribeth the spirituall and contemplatiue power of gouern∣ment, and placeth them first and before the eares, wée may well (for anie thing here to the contrarie) vnderstand the Bishoppes. Whose verie name 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 (betokening an ouerseer) is answerable to the contemplatiue ver∣tue of the eie, and his office is in spirituall contemplation, more then these not teaching Seniors, whose gouernment they make to consist, onlie in ex∣ternall discipline, and in the correction of manners. As for the hands, that he should meane the Deacons, is further applied than Basil went. For hee resteth his application onelie on these two members, the eies & the eares, saying: But now our vertue contemplatiue and helping of praiers, he cal∣led the eies, and that the eies of the Lord are ouer the righteous, and his eares vnto their praiers, because all the action of the righteous is meete, that it should of God be beholden and considered. So that in the end, he driueth all, vnto Gods beholding and considering the action of the righ∣teous man, séeming to meane the minister of God, that directeth all his spi∣rituall and contemplatiue power of seeing, that is, of taking care of vs: & of hearing, that is, of offering praiers to God for vs. And as for anie resē∣blance of the tongue, he mencioneth not at all. But sith the praiers (name∣lie publike) not onely procéede from the heart, but are vttered with y^e tong, (the tongue also fitting well therto) he concludeth, saying: And finallie, e∣uery word (sith nothing is idlely spokē of him) remaineth fruitfull & very profitable. And therefore he saith here, the righteous man is both seene and heard continually. And can Danaeus or any other man, be his eies ne∣uer so good, sée in this sentence, that Basil meant, there were 4. perpetual cō∣tinuing orders of the Ecclesiastical ministery in the Church, whereof these Seniors not teaching, are likened to the eies, and haue the first place euen aboue the Pastors? He had néed haue better eies than I haue, that should sée this. And yet (I thanke God) I can sée thus much, that if Danaeus had but turned ouer the former leafe, and looked vpon the 11. verse, that in the Psalme goeth a little before: wee & other may easilie sée this, that Basil in plaine words, ascribeth to the teachers of the word, and not vnto anie not teaching Seniors, the eie & ouersight of the Churches discipline, saying: Heare (my children) heare me, I will teach you the feare of the Lord. This is as the voice of a most louing maister (or teacher) and of one that euen by the Fathers bowels allureth them to discipline. For the Scholler also is the sonne of the spirituall maister. For whosoeuer receiueth of any the forme of godlinesse, he verily is as it were fashioned of him, and brought forth into the light, euen as a woman with childe that beareth the in∣fants fashioned in her wombe. So Paul when all the Church of the Gala∣thians did fall from their first discipline, beeing sotted with a certaine drousinesse and astonishment of the mind, hee taking them againe, refor∣ming and instructing Christ in thē, calleth them his sonnes. And because after his griefe, he erected them being fallen, and reduced them vnto the

dutie of their faith: he therefore minded also to trauell for their heauines that were fallen a waie. My children (saith he) of whom I trauell againe, till Christ be fashioned (in you). Come therfore (my children) heare me. What then hath our spiritual Father for to teach vs? I wil teach you (saith he) the feare of the Lord.

This sentence (loe) of Basil euen in the same treatise, is a greate deale cléerer, and without all obscuritie sheweth, that he tooke those whom he af∣terward calleth the eies, to be these that the ouersight & care of discipline belongeth vnto, declaring withal, that these are such spiritual Fathers, as to whom the teaching of the feate of God, & the instructing, exhorting, & re∣ducing Gods people vnto the true faith, from all error & wickednes doth pertaine, & not to Elders that medled not with teaching. And to shew this yet more plaine in Basil: His booke De Institutione Monachorum, translated by Ruffinus, an Elder also of Aquilegia, but withal, a teacher of the word, liuing in Hieromes time, dooth sufficientlie declare. Where Cap. 16. and treating of a gouernor of the Church, he maketh the Monke (for he procée∣deth dialogue wise) to aske this question. Monachus. What ought hee to thinke of himselfe which is a gouernor? And what manner of man ought he to be towards them whom he commandeth and gouerneth? Basilius. Verilie before God, euen as the minister of Christ, & the stewarde of the ministeries (or rather, the mysteries) of God, fearing least that besides the will of God, or besides that which is euidently commanded in the holie Scriptures, he either speak any thing, or cōmand any thing, or bee found as a false witnes of Christ, or a sacrilegious person, or a bringer in of anie thing that is strange, frō the doctrine of God, yea, or leuing out or going beyōd any of those things that are acceptable vnto God. But to the bre∣thren he ought to be as it were a nurse that cherisheth her litle ones. And he must be ready according to the will of God, & according as is expe∣dient for euery one, to cōmunicate with them not onely the Gospell, but his life also. Being mindfull of the commandement of the Lord, and our God, saying: I giue you a new commandement, that ye loue together as I haue lo∣ued you. No man hath a greater loue than this, that hee should giue his life for his friends. Wherby it appeareth y^t Basil acknowledgeth no other Eccl. gouer∣nors of the Church, but such Elders as were ministers of the worde & Sa∣craments. And this also be saith of those y^t were the correcters or their bre∣ca. 17. Mo. How shal we (O Father) reproue & amēd him that offēdeth? Ba. As it is written, the Lord speaking it, If thy bro••her shal sinne against thee, go and reproue him betweene thee and him alone. If he shall heare thee, thou hast won thy brother. But if he will not heare thee, take with thee another or two, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses, euerie word may stand. But if so hebe will not heare them, tell the Church. And if he wil not heare the Church, let him be to thee as an Ethnike or publicane. If perhaps this rebuking which is made of ma∣ny, may fall out vnto him for his health.

And as the Apostle sayd reproue, beseech, comfort, in all patience and do∣ctrine. And againe, if anie man obey not the worde, note him by an E∣pistle, and keepe not fellowship with him. Without doubt (he meaneth) for the participation of the table. Thus writeth Basil of his dutie, especi∣ally, to whome the reprouing of faultes doth belong, that he should not on∣lie be a priuate admonisher, but such a publike reprouer also, as occasion requireth, and that with doctrine, as Saint Paule prescribeth to a Pastor. And if our Brethren will vnderst•••••• these wordes, Dic Ecclesia, tell the Church, to be the onelie of Elders: then let those Elders be such reprouers, as heere Basil applyeth the Apostles sentence vnto, that they teach doc∣trine with their reprehensions. So that if they bee not with all teachers of doctrine, they cannot be the Churches officers for publike Ecclesiasti∣call reprehension.

And as we sée Basils iudgement sufficiently by these his writings: so for his owne estate and his life, set out by Gregorie Nazianzen, that was al∣so an Elder vnder Basil, is apparant in Gregories Monodia; who ha∣uing before declared the parentage, the youth, the studie of Basil, at length he commeth to this Eldership, and sayth: Illum verò dei dispensatio pe•• Sacerdotij gradus illustrem ac notum o••nibus fecit, ac inter Presbyteros constituit, non, &c.

As for him the dispensation of GOD made him famous and know∣en by the degrees of the sacred Priesthoode, and placed him among the Elders, howbeit not by and by, and besides order, but by little and little, proceeding and beeing promoted by degrees and courses. In which wordes he manifestlie sheweth, that to he•• preferred from one degree to another, till he come to a gouerning Presbyter, Priest, or Elder, was not to come to bée one that medled not with teaching, but to bee Sacerdos, to wit, a Minister of the sacred worde of God and of his Sacramentes. For (sayth Gregorie) I praise not them that without order, are by and by promoted in the Church: I rather commend the Mariners custome. For they make not their gouernour at the first dash, and on a sodaine: but first they exercise and trie him by all the offices of a Seaman. They will before see howe hee can rowe, and then placing him in the fore-parte of the shippe, to knowe and perfectlie to learne the windes, acquainting himselfe cunninglie to shunne the cliffes and rockes. Last of all, hauing bene exercised in all the offices, they place him in the hinder parte of the shippe, and giue him the stearne in his hande, and make him gouernour. Likewise also in the discipline of warre, first hee is made a souldier, then a wiffler to set them in their rankes, and lastly he is made a Captaine.

The same is the manner both of the Phisition and of the Painter, the one, that before hee make his profession, hee haue conned manie

rules, and haue seene and had in handling manye diseases: the other to know how to mixe and temper his coulours before, and then to drawe his lines and last of all to giue perfect figures vnto his coullors.

But we see (which is a ridiculous matter, or rather a lamentable) how a Bishop is made with tumult and confusion (hee speaketh of that time when the Bishops were choosen by the election and voyces of the people, as the Eccles••••••••icall Histories are full of such tu••••••ts & co••••••••••ous) ney∣ther in order nor directly, but by viciousnes and crafte, not hee that is worthie but he that is mightier. For he is not promoted that is exerci∣sed before, but he that is ignorant and rude of the Churches affayres, in so much that he commeth fresh from the seculer life, as the Giantes at Thebes for (as the Poetes feigne) when Cadmus at Thebes in Boeocia, had sowed the teeth of Dragons, suddenly there sprange vp Giantes, armed downe to the nauell, and so making battell one with an other, were slaine the same daye. And euen so we make Prelates of one dayes breede. And wee hauing not learned what they be, doe beleeue that they be wise men, which were fortified before with no degree, with no vertue, with no eloquence, hauing susteyned no trauayle for righ∣teousnesse, nor any thing at all for the Churche. For hee which one∣ly meditateth diuine matters, and subdueth his bodie to the spirite, that hereafter he may be fitte for a place in heauen, is gladly content to holde a lowe and inferiour place among men. But he that is igno∣raunt, and without learning, beeing puffed vp and loftie, is aduaunced aboue his betters, nor is mooued with the example of goodnesse or hu∣militie: but with all his indeuour onely seeking honours, promiseth him-••elfe witte and wisedome (to springe) out of his power. Where∣upon that of Demosthenes is true, to atchiue a matter luckily besides woorthinesse; is an occasion for fooles to imagine and thinke euill. But our Basill as he is made a rule and example vnto other of his o∣ther vertues: so also of a Priest and of the Ecclesiasticall ordination. For euen frō the first swathing-bands of the Sacerdotall offices, he grew vp by little and little, in-so-much that hee disdayned not in anie wise to be made a Reader of the holie scriptures, and then to bee made an interpreter and expounder of them, euen as Dauid sayth: Let those of the chayre of the Elders prayse the Lorde: and so at length deserued he to be made a Bishop. Which place he neuer at any time sought nor e∣uer wished.

In which sentence, we not onely sée the complaint of Gregorie, howe many came to be Elders, yea and Bishops also in those dayes (as in all a∣ges like corruptions, and complaintes haue béene) but especially it grewe then of the disordered and factions elections of the people: so for the pur∣pose nowe in hande, we sée heereby, that these Elders were the sacred

Priestes, whose office consisted not in gouerning only, but with ••ll in the ministerie of the worde and Sacraments. And how by degrees, 〈◊〉〈◊〉 ••x••••∣cising thēselues in matters tending vnto teaching, they attayned, or ought to haue attained, vnto this Eldership & from thence such as excelled were, or ought to haue béen, promoted to be Bishops. Except it fel out otherwis••, by extraordinarie occasion in some rare and singular men, as in Ambrose, and Thalassius euen in Caesarea where Basil was Bishop, &c. and of other Elders than these, here is no mention.

Nowe when Basil was thus ordeyned an Elder. Gregorie sheweth how he exercised himselfe vnder Eusebius B. of Caesarea, how he laboured against the Heretikes, in exhorting and teaching of the people, how hée sent for Gregorie to come & helpe him. And here Gregorie setteth downe Basils example vnto him. For (sayth he) euen as Barnabas in times past was present with Paule, to make manifest the trueth of the Gospell, and common conflict of the faith: so came I, then vnto my Basil, as his fellowe against his fight with the Arians. Listen to the Epistle where-with he called me. Make readie thy selfe, haue regarde to deli∣uer me in this present conflict, and with vs to meete them which desire vtterly to ouerthrowe vs, whose boldnesse thou shalt bridle onely with thy countenaunce, and shalt cause that they shall not make our matters goe to wracke: and therefore all shall knowe howe thou onely (by the grace of God) dost gouerne our congregation, and that thou shalt e••∣sily represse euery wicked mouth and the insolencie of them that speake against God.

But (sayth Gregorie) to returne my speech to my purpose, Basill re∣turning to Caesarea, regarded nothing more than to pacifie Eusebius to the end that he might ouer-throw the Heresie, and wholly to serue him, and be ready at his hande in all those thinges that were of God, that hee might make apparant to all men, that all thinges which hee had suffred of him (for Eusebius had béene heauie before vnto him) proceeded from the instigation of the Diuell, that the common enemies of the fayth might haue the greater aduauntage by their rageing. (as the Papistes get nowe by our Brethrens and our Bishops falling out, though the Bi∣shops doe all they can to pacifie them, whereas Basilius laboured all that he could to pacifie his bishoppe) but he when as he knewe very well the lawes of obedience, and of a spirituall life, hee was attendant on him in all thinges, in hearing, in consulting, and in doing, he employed his spirituall and diligent endeuour for the bishop. And to say at one word, he grewe as much into his fauour, as before he seemed to be farre from it. For which cause Eusebius helde indeede as bishop, the chiefe place, in the Church, but Basill had the power of the Church and the autho∣ritie. The one fate in the chiefe dignitie, the other went about all the

businesse. For there was a singular and wonderfull concorde betweene them. The one helping the other, and taking strength the one of the o∣ther, the bishop growing strong by the counsell and wit of Basil, and Basill by taking authoritie of the bishop. To conclude, the bishop had the people, and he the bishop. And euen as he that tameth a Lyon, being inferiour in strength, doth handle him gently, and make him tame by a certaine arte, by which meanes well neere he asswageth & molifieth the violence and fiercenesse of the wilde beast: so Basill the greate behaued himselfe about Eusebius. For when he hauing ben of late a laie man, and ignorant of Ecclesiasticall matters, was exalted vnto this dignitie, especi∣ally at the same time that the flame of Arius heresie did beare the swaie, he was not fit inough for this burthen. Wherevpon hee wanted Basil to be his guide and helper, chieflie by whose vertue there was hope, that the matters would haue prosperous and good successe. And therefore it was not as some suppose, that Basil was vnder the Emperor Iuliā, but he was bishop after the death of Valens. But whē as he receiued the gouernmēt & administration of the Church of Caesarea vnder the bishop Eusebius, he appeased all discords, hee remooued all priuie grudges, he establish∣ed their manners, not onelie with his words and excellent Sermons that he vttered: but also by the example of his life. For hee endeauoured to helpe the people both with his spirite and his bodie, with his body by la∣bour and exercise careing for them, by walking about euery waye, by courteous behauiour, and by helping thē with his riches: spiritually, by teaching, by admonishing, and by giuing to all men a measure and in∣stitutions of their life.

Thus doth Gregorie set foorth the ecclesiasticall gouernement of Ba∣sill and of his owne gouernement also, being Elders vnder the bishopp in the Churche of Caesarea, consisting as muche and more in teaching, than in the correction and composing of manners and censures of dis∣cipline. And that these were not distinct offices in the diuerse kindes of Elders, but they medled with both together, and both vnder the bishop, ••n•• h••w•• God blesse•• this ecclesiasticall gouernement, vntill Basill him-selfe after the decease of Eusebius was made their bishop. And then sayth Gregorie; after hee had praysed Basill in this promotion: ••s for mee, all men thought when they hearde of his promotion, that I would foorth-with departe (he meaneth from the place where he then was) and that I would goe to him, and that I should haue e∣quall power with him they knewe that there was such friendshippe and beneuolence betweene vs. But (I when as I shunned enuie, leaste I shoulde seeme to occupie the places of those that were neere him; and with-all, least they shoulde falsely iudge that Basil hauing recea∣ued mee, preferred mee before other, for priuate friendeshippe:)

refrayned and forbore my selfe as much as I could. While that in this behalfe, I desired rather to yeelde to reason, than to my appetite. But he ceased not to call mee, and nowe and then to complaine vppon my lingring. And yet he tooke my cause and excuse in good parte. At the length, certaine dayes after I came vnto him, and when hee would haue placed mee aboue the residue, and would haue created mee the firste or chiefest Elder; I straightwayes refused it, and foorth-with renoun∣ced the honour, for the cause which I haue before declared. Where∣by it appeareth, that there was in that great Cathedrall Church a num∣ber of other, and as it were a Consistorie or Seniorie of them in this El∣dershippe, and some one called 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 the first Elder, which is all one with the terme 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, the Arch-elder or chiefe among the El∣ders. But all vnder the Bishoppe, and all ministers of the woorde and Sacramentes. And to shewe this better, he telleth afterwarde, howe Va∣lens the Emperour in Basils time, and being desirous to sée, and to terri∣fie Basill, and persecuting the professors of the trueth: tooke 80. faith∣full Elders that were sent vnto him, to entreate him to forsake his wic∣kednesse, and bynding them put them in a shippe to bee driuen with the windes, and at length burned thē. Socrates telling the storie at large, sayth, that these 80. Elders were religious men of the eccl. order. And in procéeding further Gregorie also telleth how Basill defended a widdow that fled to the Church, when she was hal••d to be maried against her will. and when he was called in question for this fact, Tell me (sayth Gregorie in his defence) I pray you, what should not only Basil the great, but a sim∣ple priest haue done? I omit his appeasing the cōtrouersie with the Arch∣bishop of Tyana for calling the Bishops frō his part of Cappadocia, Cae∣sarea being the auncient Metropolitane Churche, and so be conti••ue•• while hee liued. And after in the funerall of Basill, sayeth Grego∣rie: hee was of the Priestes carried foorth in a Cophin thorough the Citie.

All which here in Basill being put together and considered: it sheweth that in Basils time, there was in his Citie and Cathedrall Churche▪ and with all in others, a Senate College, Eldership, Seniorie or Consistorie, of such Elders, vnder the Metropolitane Archb. and assistent vnto him▪ both in the gouernmēt of the Church and in teaching of the word, as (ri∣sing from one degree of ecclesiastical orders and offices to an other were attendant in the ministerie of the worde, till they came to this degree of Presbyters, Priestes, or Elders, who were also called indifferentlie Sacerdotes. And of other Elders, such as our Brethren and Danaeus doe pretende, wee finde no mention at all in Basill. And therefore, sithe we haue all these cléere testimonies, both of Basill himselfe, and suche as wrote of him, and were Elders with him: what néede we stande harping

about blinde coniectures, which Danaeus him-selfe confesseth, doe but seeme, and that obscurely, that there wee such imagined Elders. As hee fancieth.

Nowe to strengthen this obscure seeming of Basill, Danaeus procée∣deth to an other witnesse, for these not teaching Elders, saying:

But Dionisius reckneth onely three orders in the Churche, to wit, Bishoppes Elders and Deacons. Therefore they may be thus better di∣stinguished, that of the perpetuall orders in the Church, some are oc∣cupied eyther in the treatise of the woorde of God. Which Paule gene∣rally calleth 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 Prophecie, Rom. 12. verse, 6. or in the procuring of other matters which seemeth to be called of other by a general name 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, gouernance, but of Paul it is called, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, ministerie or Deacon∣ship, Rom. 12.

Is not this conclusion properly inferred? That because (after Basil ob∣scurely seemeth as is aforesayd) Dionisius mencioneth onely these three Ecclesiasticall orders of the Church: therefore these three may bee thus better distinguished into these two, to wit, into those that meddle with the treatise of the word, and those that meddle with the Ecclesiastical go∣uernment. Doe not those that meddle with the treatise of the word, med∣dle with the Ecclesiastical gouernment? And why then may it not be, that those which meddle with the Ecclesiasticall gouernment, as gouernours Ecclesiasticall, may also meddle with the treatise of the word? What is there here in Saint Paule, Rom. 12. or anie where else to the contrarie, more in the one than in the other? But how followeth this argument from Dionisius particular, diuiding the Ecclesiasticall orders into three: to S. Paules generall diuision into two? And is Dionysius now with our Bre∣thren become authenticall, that he also must be alleaged for proofe of these Elders? What will T. C. thinke if he shall heare of this? If we alleage any such suspicious fathers for neuer so meane a point. Lorde howe our Brethren triumphe vpon vs. And yet we must take these for good prooues, and credible witnesse at their handes, in this so waightie a matter. And for my parte so will I, so desirous am I to heare any tydinges of suche Elders, in any of the fathers, that were in the auncient Church, be they neuer so much suspected to be forged. For I denie not, but that this Di∣onysius was of some antiquitie, whome I take to haue béene also before Basill, and whose testimonie wee haue heard alreadie cited by other our Brethren, though a méere counterfeite of that Dionisius the Areopagite which eyther he feigneth him selfe to be, or at least whose name he beares.

Let vs now sée, what this Dionysius hath to proue these Elders. Dio∣nisius (sayth Danaeus) reckoneth vp three orders in the Church that is to wit Bishops, Elders, and Deacons. And where doth Dionysius rec∣kon vp these three orders? Can Danaeus set vs downe any certaine place,

that we might sée and consider of these words better? No I warrant you, but we must be faine to search for it, as well as we can, and we shall finde it all at leasure. True it is, that euen at the verie first fronte and title of his first worke we finde by and by the name of Bishop, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. Of Dionysius the Areo∣pagite (or one that was a iudge in the streete of Mars) Bishop of the Athenians, vnto Timothie Bishop, concerning the celestiall Hierarchie, (or heauenly holy gouernement. Here is Bishop named, which is one of these three orders, but our question is nowe vpon these Elders.

And lo good lucke againe, euen immediately after the argument of the first Chapter, it followeth: 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. Diony∣sius the Elder vnto his fellowe Elder Timothie. Heere is indéede the name of Elder and of fellowe Elder also, euen as our Brethren cited be∣fore the sentence, 1. Pet. 5.1. the Elders that are among you, I exhort as a fellowe Elder. But what Elders did S. Peter here acknowledge them and himselfe to be? Any other than of whom it followeth: And a wit∣nesse of the suffringes of Christe, and a communicatour of the glorie to come that shall be reuealed, feede the flocke of God that is amonge you, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 &c. ouer-seeing it, &c. doth he speake here of any elders or fellowe elders, that medled all with gouerning and not with teach∣ing? And euen so doth this Dionysius vse the name of Elder and of fel∣lowe Elders, in this place. For not onely in the woordes before, these are both of them called Bishops: but what a teaching Elder Timothie was, and was commaunded to be: the scripture is plaine, and we haue hearde at large out of S. Paule in both his Epistles written to him, a∣mong other thinges, namely for that purpose. Therefore héere is no∣thing yet for any such Elders as our Brethren séeke for, distinct from both Bishop and Pastor, medling not with teaching, but all with gouerning; nay, this name of Elder as it is here taken, maketh cleane against them. And the like stile he vseth in his ecclesiasticall Hierarchie or holy gouern∣ment of the Church, and in the stile of his booke of the diuine names. Saue that there, he calleth Timothie Bishop of Ephesus. As also in the stile of his mysticall Theologie. But when we come to the viewe of all the bookes, and of all the Epistles that he wrote: where shall wee finde these thrée reckoned vp, Bishops, Elders, and Deacons? He hath in some séeldome places the name of Bishop, as for the name of Elder, except it be in one onely place, (besides the title aforesayd) which is the 8. Epistle: we shall neuer finde it. But once is as good as a 1000 times, if it be to the purpose. Let vs therefore sée what this Dionysius sayth in that place, for profe that there were any such eccl. officers as these gouerning and not teaching Elders. And to speake plainely (sayeth this Dionysius) in all thinges that are, they are distributed from the first to the second, accor∣ding

to their dignitie, concerning the god order, & most righteous pro∣uidence of thē. And that those which are appointed of God to gouerne others, should giue to them that are their inferiors and their subiects, the thinges that are, according to their worthinesse. As for Demophilus, let him with reason cutte off wrath and concupiscence according to their woorthinesse. And let him not violate his owne dignitie, but let reason bearing the rule, gouerne her subiectes. For if in the market we see an housholde seruant reuiling his Maister, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 &c. and a yong man reuiling an Elder, eyther also the sonne r••uiling the Father, and with all rushing on him and laying on stripes: we also should seeme to be godlesse, if we should not running to them, hasten to helpe them that are the better, &c. What can we gather on this worde 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 in this place, but simplie by the name of Elder, an Elder man in age, and the other a younger man the relation of the one to the other, the termes of Master and housholde seruant, of father and sonne, the one going before, the other comming after, and both vnderstoode in their literall & naturall sense; to conclude, the whole drift and circumstance of the place considered: who would fetch this so farre, as to thinke that he spake here, or so much as dreamed of, either an eccl. or a ciuill Elder? If it be replyed, y^t the whole argument of this Epistle arose, vpon a Priest that was beaten and misu∣sed: true it is indéede. But by what name calleth he the Priest or any priest Presbyterum? or 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, Sacerdotem, he that giueth the sacred word and Sa∣cramentes. Which worde not onely hee vseth more than halfe a score of times in this Epistle, and he hath once also euen here the name of Bishop: but neither here nor any other where that I can finde, he hath the name of Deacon. Not that he acknowledgeth no Deacons; but that he comprehen∣deth them (as I take it) in the name of 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, a minister or worker of the publike seruices. And as in all places where he treateth therof, he ma∣keth indéede most especiall mention of three eccl. orders, namely, in his eccl. Hierarchie, cap. 2.3. and 5. resembling them to the proportion of his celestiall Hierarchie, in these thrée pointes of perfecting, illuminating, & purging, of whome the Bishop is still called 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉: the priest or Elder, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉: and the thirde, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. And so, euen in this example within a fewe lines after he had named the Elder, that is, the old man afore-sayde: hee sayth of all these thrée: 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. Thou thy selfe therefore distribute to thy concupi∣scence and to thine anger and to thy speech, the thinges that are ac∣cording to their worthinesse. But to thy selfe, let the diuine publike mi∣nisters distribute: and vnto them, the Priestes: vnto the Priests, the By∣shoppes; and vnto the Bishops, the Apostles and the successors of the Apostles.

Where are here these Elders that meddle not with teaching? If they be neyther conteyned in the Bishops, nor in the Priests (both which, me∣dle principally with teaching) then eyther they haue no place at al, or they must be included in the 3. number of the 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, wherein he comprehen∣deth not only all the inferiour officers of the Church, but Monkes also. So that (I think••) these gouerning Elders would be loath to be thrust down into so base a companie. Although the purging be giuen vnto them, which is somewhat aunswerable to the correction of manners, that they would meddle with all. Saue that Dionisius also maketh these purgers, but to pull off the clothes of those that should be baptized, and to voyde the Churche at the communion, of those that were possessed with foule spi∣rites, or were not throughly taught their Catechisme, and to kéepe backe the laye people, and such other seruile offices. If nowe, they disdayne to be of the number of these purgantes; and will not become ministers of the worde and Sacramentes; nor with the Bishops be perficientes; nor with the Priestes, be illuminantes: then Dionisius cleane renounceth these Se∣niors that would be tantū dominantes, and will haue none such in his eccl. Hierarchie. And therefore, if I might counsell such an excellent learned man as is Danaeus; he should neuer bring in Dionysius for these Elders. But eyther race his name out of his booke; or else, how so euer an other haue at his perill, counterfeited the name of Dionysius the Areopagite mentioned Act. 17. let not vs cuunterfeite any thing in his name, but al∣leage his wordes rightly as he vttered them. For he is wrong inough of himselfe. But right or wrong, sithe we shall neuer wring any thing out of him, that may make so much as a shadowe for these gouerning and not teaching Ecclesiasticall Elders: let vs nowe go to be better resolued of that more reuerende Fathers iudgement, whom Danaeus also citeth for these Seniors.

Danaeus procéeding in the 7. chap. aforesayd, 2. part. Christ. Isagog. saith: Caet••rum caetus, &c. But the assembly of the eccl. gouernors, that is of thē that are set ouer euery Church, is called the Senate of the Church, Hiron▪ ad Rustic. It is also in the Canon, Ecclesia, 16. quaest. 1. least perhaps any man should suppose, that this name nowe were of vs first forged and vsurped for ostentation.

We thinke not that this name of the Churches Senate, is newe for∣ged or feygned by our Brethren. Wee thinke more reuerently also of Danaeus, than to make any such forgerie, vsurpation, or ostentation of this name, the Senate of the Churche. And we graunt the name hath béene vsed of other heretofore, albeit (as we haue hearde) Caluine him selfe estéemeth the name of Senate to be some what too prophane or seculer a name, though we denie not but the name is reuerent. Howe-beit, our question is héere, in what sense Hierome vseth it, whether for suche

an Ecclesiasticall senate of Elders, that are gouernors and not teachers, as our Brethren woulde beare vs in hand. And this is the point that Da∣naeus alleageth it for. If now Ierome alleage it for any Senate of such Ec∣clesiasticall Elders: then hath Danaeus and our Brethren gotten a good and a strong testimony, that there were some such Seniory of Elders in those dayes. But if Hierome alleage no such matter: but rather the cleane contrary, to witte, if hee alleage it for a senate of those Elders that were teachers: what then hath Danaeus or our brethren gained out of Hierom for these Gouerning and not teaching Elders? Nowe therefore to exa∣mine better this testimony also of Saint Hierome, in his Epistle written to Rusticus: wee finde that hee wrote two Epistles to men of that name: whereof that which here is ment is the former, writtē to one Rust. Gallus a yong man that was become a Monke. Howbeit such a Monke, as Eras∣mus well obserueth thereupon, saying: Leaste that shoulde offende any, that in this Epistle, (as neither also in the former) S. Ierom commaun∣deth none of those thinges, that are required of Monkes in these dayes: he suffereth them to haue the possession of houshold stuffe, so it be mo∣derate. He permitteth them to liue with their Mother, with their Sister, to conclude, with any body men or women, so that they shunne suspi∣cious and daungerous company, Hee exhorteth him, hee exacteth not, that if he had leauer liue abroade: he shoulde rather liue in the fellow∣ship of many together vnder the discretion of some Father, than to liue after his own all alone. As concerning any certayn Monastery or form, or color, or matter of garment: there is no mention in any place. One∣ly hee woulde haue such apparell, that neither with the sluttishnes ther∣of it should sauour of hypocrisy, nor with the neatenesse it shoulde sa∣uour of pride. Nowe concerning the three vowes which they call so∣lemne: there is not one worde. Hee prayseth in this man the study of eloquence, and that to attaine learning, hee trauelled to Countries far distant. But we must remember, (which thing is manifestly apparant by these mens writinges) that there was not in the age of Hierom, this kind of Monks, such as we see in our age, which wold to God the world had them all as good, as it hath many, and so excellent ouer other in holines, as they differ in apparell. In those dayes Monkes were nothing else, but such as professed the contempt of the Worlde, in a more seuere life. Howbeit they obeyed their Bishop as other did, and exercised the office of Clearks euen as other also.

I doe the rather by the way note this obseruation, leaste any shoulde mistake that kinde of life, when they reade in these old Fathers, as in Ba∣sil aforesaide and in the Ecclesiasticall History the names of Monks, least they shoulde thinke it maketh any thing for the maintenance of such su∣perstitious sectes as swarme in popery, & are expelled from vs.

Nowe then vnto this Rusticus: being a yong man, and such a kinde of Monke writeth olde Father Hierom this epistle, full of fatherly precepts and good councell, howe to behaue himself in that profession. And at length (among other things) comming to this, hee sayth: Neque vero peccantium &c. Neither be thou caried away with the multitude of sinners, neither let the number of them that perish trouble thee, that thou sholdst think with thy selfe, what? and shall all perish then that dwell in the Cities? Loe they enioy their goods, they minister to the Churches, they hauute the bathes, they dispise not oyntmentes, and yet are they commonly in euery mans mouth. To the which I aunswered also before, and nowe breefely I answere, that in this present pamphlet I dispute not of clearks but instruct a Monke. The Clearkes are holy, and the life of them all is laudable. So therefore behaue thy selfe, and liue in the Monastery, that thou mayest deserue to be a Cleark, that thou defile not thy youth with any vncleannesse, that thou mayest come vnto the altar of Christe, euen as a virgine out of her chamber, and that abroade thou haue a good te∣stimony, and that the women know thy name, but not knowe thy coun∣tenance. When as thou shalt come to a perfect age (if so be thou shalt liue so long) and that eyther the people, or else the Bishop of the City, shall chose thee into the Cleargy: doe those thinges that pertaine to a Clearke, and among them followe the better, because, in euery condi∣tion and degree, the best are mixed with the worst. Nor leape thou out by and by to write, & be caried away with a light madnes, be long time learning that thou teachest, giue not credit to those that are the pray∣sers of thee: Yea rather, to the mockers of thee willingly listen thou not. Whome when they shall haue foaded thee with their floutings, and shal after a sort set thee besides thy selfe. If thou shalt suddenly looke about thee, thou shalt eyther finde the neckes of the strokes bowing behinde thee, or the Asses eares to be solfaed with the hande, or the hot panting tong of the Dog to be lolled out. (Hee meaneth, that with such beastly partes they will mocke him behinde his backe, whome to his face they praysed). Backbite no man, neither count thy selfe holy herein, if thou deface other men. Wee accuse often-times that which wee doe, and are eloquent against our owne selues. We are caried with inuectiues against our vices, while the silent iudge the eloquent. Grunnius comming foorth to speake, with his pace like a snayle, scrasly carped out, and that by certayne yawning pawses, fewe wordes, that hee woulde ra••her think hee sobbed than hee spake: and yet when the table beeing sette, ••he hadde layde foorth an heape of Bookes, bending his eye browe, snuffling vp his nose, and wrinkling his foreheade, Phillipped with bothe his fingers, by this signe prouoking this Shcollers to here him.

Then beganne hee to powre out his meere toyes, and to declayme a∣gainst euery one. You woulde haue sayde, hee had beene Longinus the Critike (or one that giues his iudgement against euery body) and a Censor (or Master Controller) of the Romayne eloquence, to note whome it liked him, Et de Senatu doctorum excludere. And to exclude him out of the Senate of the Doctors (or of the Learned men.) This fellowe is wel monied, hee is better liked in his dinners, &c. Héere at length wée are come to the Worde Senate, which Danaeus aymeth at, in saying: But the assembly of Ecclesiasticall Gouernours, that is, of them that are pla∣ced ouer euery Church, is called the senate of the church. Hieronimus ad Rusticum.

But as Hierome speaketh all this sentence, in deriding the contemp∣tuous and scornefull inuectiues, of the rich and prowde disdainers of all o∣ther, bee they neuer so learned men: (and therefore that we might the more fully perceiue his meaning, I haue set downe his Wordes thus at large) so what can bée gathered hereupon, that hee alluded to any Ecclesi∣astical senate of that time? Especially vnderstanding the same for such an Ecclesiastical senate, as were gouernors of the church, and not teachers of it? Erasmus in his scholies comming to these wordes, De senatu Docto∣rum: applieth them to an allusion of the Senate of Rome, saying: For this also was lawful for the Romayne censors (or Lorde controllers of the Romayne manners) to expel out of the senate: as Portius Cato re∣mooued out of the senate Titus Flamminius, Iunius Brutus remooued Lucius Antonius, and others remooued other, as Valerius Maximus re∣cordeth, li. 2. cap. de Censoria nota. So that by these termes, de Senatu doctorum excludere, Hierome meant, that this Grunnius tooke vppon him like a Censor or Lorde controller, to exclude such and such as hee pleased out of the senate, that is, out of the number of all those that are accounted Learned men. And is not this nowe a proper proofe, to inferre that in Heiromes time, in euery or in any congregation or churche, there was a senate of Learned men and yet not teachers? If Danaeus will néedes apply it to the state of a senate then present in the Churche: yet where is héere become this Ecclesiasticall senate, that hee woulde prooue was then, by these wordes? If hée say, that it is included in this worde doctorum: what shall wee call these? Learned men? or Doctors? if they were Senatus doctorum, a senate of Doctors: What Doctors were they, if they medled not with teaching? Were they such as the common saying decideth: doctor a docendo sicut mons a mouendo? and will our Brethren allow such Doctors, rather than they will not prooue an Ecclesiasticall senate of gouerning and not teaching? If he say, that by these wordes, he meaneth a senate of learned men, but not actiuely of Doctors or teachers, but passiuely, of such

as are taught or learned. Doth not Hierome here deride those, that being their selues vnlearned, will in teaching their schollers, inueighe a∣gainst all other that bee learned? And if he make here this arrogant asse, a teacher of schollers: doth he not much more allowe the Learned them∣selues to be Teachers? I dare not precisely say, of so darke and generall wordes, what Ieromes meaning was, but (me thinkes) the wordes Sena∣tus Doctorum, sound rather for a Senate of Teachers, than for a Senate of those that were not teachers. But what is this vnto our Elders? he speak∣eth there (as we haue seene also) of Clearkes, and of a number of them, cō∣mending the life of them to be lawdable, and willeth him so to liue, that he may deserue to bee made a Clearke, and if that (God lending him life) either the people or the Bishop of the City chose him into the cler∣gie, that he shoulde then liue as a Clearke shoulde doe, and that he shoulde followe the better sort of them: but what then were these Clearkes? (if perhaps they were this Ecclesiastical Senate) But so soone as euer hee had spoken of these Clearkes (if Rusticus shoulde be made one of them) doth he not straight wayes say: leape not out by and by to bee a writer, and bee caried away with a light madnesse, bee long time learning that thou tea∣chest. And also in the same Epistle he saide before, Haec dico &c. I say these thinges, that if thou be tickled with the desire to bee of the Cleargy, that thou shouldest learne that, which thou mightest bee able to teache and mightest offer vnto Christe the reasonable offering. Bee not a man of armes, before thou haste beene a yong souldior, be not a Maister before thou haste bin a scholler.

So that it appeareth, this Cleargy were teachers, at least wise, their profession was not separate from teaching, though all among were not a like able, yea, the very Readers in the Cleargy, cheefely had a kind of tea∣ching euen in reading. As for the Elders in the Cleargy, Gouerning El∣ders, were much more Teachers. For he would not haue Rusticus (when he shoulde nowe become one of Cleargy) such a Teacher as shoulde finde fault with other, and be culpable himselfe of the same faultes, specially in learning: nor to be like Gruninus a M. Controller, corrector & displacer of learned men, being him-selfe vnlearned So that I can see none so fitte, that we may resemble these Gouerning Seniors vnto, that are not Tea∣chers, and yet are Censors or Controllers, (for Caluine also giueth that tearme Censors, as we haue heard) vnto them: as vnto these Elders that our Brethren plead for. For as they take not vpon them to be Teachers, so they had not neede, being their selues vnlearned. At leaste wise, for the moste part it would so fall out, that this Seniory in euery parish could not be of Learned men: and yet must they bee the Censors and controllers of the Learned men, and that not onely for manners, but to sée that the Lear∣ned teachers, teache no false doctrine. Which in many Parishes woulde

be. S••t Mineru••••▪ A••d so the hoggish and rich Grimus, must gruntle and play th••se partes (that Hierome d••scribeth) against the learned teacher, & teache his teacher, beeing him-selfe no teacher. But doth Ierome like of this? I think not, & yet this would often times a fal out, if our Bret. seniory were brought in, who wold play Grunnius part more liuely then he that were as Ierom saith heere, bene nummatus, plus placebat in prandii••, a well monied man, fitter to please vs with good chere than with good doctrin doctrine? which fault our Breth finde nowe in some vnlearned pastors a∣mong vs, and call them vnpreaching Preestes and Prelates: and yet it shoulde then be common, in these gouerning and not teaching, control∣ling and vnlearned seniors among them. And so it shoulde bee, not sena∣tum doctorum (as Hierom sayth) but Senatum indoctorum, as our bre∣thren and we too soone shoulde ••••••de it. If it were not farre worse, as it followeth afterwarde in Hierome, against these vnlearned Controllers of the Learned Pastors, and yet flatterers of the people, saying: Nec mirum &c. Neither is it meruell, if hee that was wont to feede many with his baytes, come foorth abroade, making a trayne after him, of the bab∣blers that make a noyse about him (or of the people giuing him all their voices, & saying as this M. Senior Controller saith) Intus Nero, foris Cato, to∣tus ambiguus, vt ex contrarii•• diuersis{que} naturis, vnum mo••••trum, no••āque bestiam dicere•• ess•• compact a••: iu••cta illud poeticum, Prima Le•• postrema drac••, media ipsa Chim••r••. Nero within, Cato without, altogether doubtfull, insomuch that you woulde say, it were one Monster, or a newe Beaste, compact of contrary and diuerse natures, according to the saying of the Poet, a Li∣on is the formest part, a Dragon last is seene, the Monster Chimere pla∣ced is, within the middest betweene. And such a Senate compact of such as Grymsyre Grunnius, a Critical longinu•• (if not rather such a blind longinus, as is sayde to haue pierced the side of Christ•• with his speare) such inward Neroes, and outward Catoes, such Lions, Dragons and Chimers, might quickly créepe into this Senate of vnlearned Seniors, that woulde become the Electors of all Ecclesiasticall officers, the Gouernors of all Eccle∣siasticall Gouernment, the Censors and controllers of all the Discipline and manners of the Teachers, and them-selues no teachers, nor able to meddle with teaching. ••o, Ierome alloweth not any Ecclesiastical Senate of such Seniors. But when Ierome mentioneth such Elders or Seniors, as he knewe and alloweth (as hee doth within a fewe wordes after) hee sayth: veritas angulos non amat, &c. Trueth loueth not Corners, nor see∣keth out Whisperers. It is sayde to Timothie: against an Elder receiue not straight way an accusation. Him that sinneth reprooue before all, that the other also may haue feare. We must not easily beleeue the slan∣ders spoken) of that olde age, which both their life forepassed doth de∣fend, and the terme of their dignity doth honor. Here he playnly spea∣eth

of Seniors not onely in age, but in dignity. An•• applieth S. Paules sentence to them, 1. Tim. 5.19. which w•• haue séene, ••oth by the te••timo∣ny of Caluin of Beza, is spoken of such Elders, as are Pastors & teachers. Yea Danaeus himself so expounding it, & saying theron: It is a transition (or passing from the one part to speak of the other) for now he treateth of the 2. part of this argument, to witte, what is the office of Elders thēselues towards themselues and their Colleagues, least any offence shoulde arise on that part. For first, heede must be taken, leaste that they doe excuse one another and spare them-selues, while that notwithstanding, they correct other seuerely, and leaste that in them the olde prouerbe haue place, The mules do nibble one another. Let that sentence of Christe come rather to their minde, You are the salt of the earth, if the salt melt away, in what shall it be salted? you are the light of the World, Mat. 5. v. 13.14. And also those sayings, let your loines be gi••t, & burning lampe•• in your handes. Luk. 1••. ver. 35. Yea and ••hose also of Peter, that the pa∣stors ought to be an example in soundnesse of life and purity of Do∣ctrine, and to shine before other. 1. Pet. 5.3. Therefore as on the one part, they must diligentlie take heede, that they winke not in their owne, and in the sinnes of their Colleagues: so on the other part they must looke, that they giue not to froward men, and to such as refuse and shake of the yoake of Ecclesiasticall Discipline, an entry vnto an easie appeache∣ment and accusation. &c. These are the onely Elders in office th•••• Ie∣rome in this Epistle mentioneth.

These Elders therefore and their Colleagues (as Danaeus tearm••th them) being these Pastorall Elders, and to whome these sentences and that which followeth, Ezech. 18 doe appertaine: what is here to releeue these other kinde of Elders, not pastorall that are all gouerning & not medling with teaching? Nowe, if our Brethren will but turne v•• the o∣ther side of the leafe, before that where this worde senate is of H••erome named, which here Danaeus taketh hold vpon: we shall finde perhaps such an Ecclesiasticall company insinuated, as agayne may make a senate Ec∣clesiastical. Nulla ars &c. There is no Art (sayth Ierom to this Monk Ru∣sticus) that is learned without a Master, yea the dumbe liuing creatures and heards of wilde Beaste•• followe their guides. Among the Bees there are their Princes, the cranes followe one another in a lettered order, or like the rowe of Letters.) The Emperour is one, the Iudge of the pro∣uince is one. So soone as Rome was built, it coulde not haue 2. brothers to be kings both of them together, and it was dedicated in Parricide (or in the bloud of one brother murdering another) so that it is lesse maruell, if it haue euer since bin the city of bloud from whence such horrible, mur∣ders, treasons and vnnaturall ma••sacres euer haue bin contriued, euen frō the laying of the foundation of it: & yet lesse marueil, for there is nowe an

Eccl. senate al of gouerning elders that medle not with teaching: which in Ierom▪ ti•••• was not, nor he any of them, as he is now pi••••ured: but let Ierom go on: In the womb of Rebecca Esau and Iacob made wars toge∣ther. Singuli ecclesiarum episcopi, singuli archipresbyter•• singuli Archidiacons, & omnis ord•• ecclesiasticus suis rectoribus nititur. &c. The B. of the churches are but single (or one) the archpreestes but one, the Archd. but one, & euery eccl. order resteth vpon his gouernors. In a ship there is one gouernor, in a house there is one M. in euery great army one ensigne or standarde is expected, and (leaste that in vnfolding mo things, I shoulde accloy the reader) my speech by all these tendeth therunto, that I might teach thee (sayth Ier. to Rust.) that thou shold not be left to thine own chois, but to liue in a Monastery vnder the discipline of one Father, and in the con∣sort or company of many. If any thing in this epistle come neere to the nature and matter (though not to the word) of Senate, but consort, & that ecclesiasticall, it is here (me thinks) nerer touched, than where the name of the Senate of doctors, or learned men, was spoken of. But what is ther here, to shew whether all in this consorte were seniors, & those that were seniors, whether teachers, or no? but teachers or not teachers, to whom is here the Gouernment referred? to the consort? no but to one ouer them. The consort is of many▪ the gouernment of all, is stil referred vnto one.

Indéed he driues al this drift, to the Monasticall state. The lesse (say I) it serueth to such an Ecclesiasticall senate of Elders, as our Bre. refer it vn∣to. Yea, but he boroweth examples not onely frō many naturall & ciuil or∣ders, but also frō the Eccl. order of the church. we grant he doth so, & they much more shold liue in order, & therin be example to other If therfore any Eccl. senate be amōg the clergy: omnis ord•• eccl. (saith Ierom) suis rectorib•••• nititur. All eccl. order resteth on their gouernors. And who then, or how many are these gouernors forsooth but one. Here are three orders of the clergy reckoned vp, the deacons as the lowest, & they haue their archd. for their gouernor: the Elders midlemost, and they are distinct heere from the deacons, and from the B. and haue their arch-elder among themselues, & ouer them al, in the senates of them. And the B. are chéefest ouer the seueral churches. Except we shall find in seueral prouinces, archb. also ouer them. Which authority likewise Ierom allowed among and ouer the B. though he make none but Christ the vniuersall head and gouernor ouer all these in general, that the pope now taketh vpon him. But wher is here this go∣uernment of al this senate of gouerning Elders? & where are these gouer∣ning elders that are not teachers? doth Ierom here, or any other where, ac∣knowlege any such order of eccl. elders, as medled not with the ministra¦tion of the word & sacraments? Ierom saith, y^t the names of Elders & B. were ••••rst vsed for al one office (as we haue at large séen his opiniō therin & how that vse was altered) but doth he acknowlege any other presbytery

Senate, College, Consistory or seniorie, of any other Presbyters, Preestes, seniors and Elders, than such as he sayth, were 〈◊〉〈◊〉 called Bishops: or than such, as he calleth indifferently, (as well as he calleth Bishops) sa∣cerdotes, and such as were more or le••se teachers, and Ministers of the Worde and sacramentes? Doth he not say in his Epistle to Euagrius: Quid enim facit excepta ordinatione episcopus quod Presbyter non faciat? For what doth the Bishop except ordeining, that an Elder doth not▪

As for the other Epistle to the other Rusticus, being altogether of ano∣ther argument: we finde nothing tending hereunto, saue only that he hath these wordes: Vnde & ad viros Ecclesiasticos, &c. Wherupon also vnto the Ecclesiasticall men, which are called the walls and towers of the church, the saying of the prophet speaketh: powre foorth your teares ye Walles of Sion. But because here he neither sheweth what he meant by these ec∣clesiasticall men, nor speaketh of any Senate of them: wee can gather no∣thing directly either for Elders or other Ecclesiasticall persons. And if hee meant elders: why not such as are teachers and Ministers of the Word•• and sacramentes, and such as he meant of in the other Epistle, and in all other places where he mentioneth any ecclesiasticall elders? Thus, as we finde nothing in Hierome, that can make any thing for any ecclesiasticall senate of elders gouerning and not teaching: ••o, because Danaeus citeth not Hierom simplie, but endorseth him with a con••••rmation of the degrées in the Canon Lawe, as though it were a perpetual Canon, that ther shold still be such an ecclesiasticall senate: albeit the same beeing fetched out of this sentence of Hierome, as we haue séene, maketh more against it than any thing for it: so that this decrée being grounded thereon, the one falles to the grounde with the other: neuerthelesse, for the more full satisfaction of the reader, in this eldership so much vrged: let vs also repayre to the decrees, and peruse what is there likewise for this senate of Gouerning and not teaching elders. And here indéede is expresse mention made, that the church hath a Senate of elders, ecclesia habet senatum catum presbytero∣rum, &c.

The Church hath a senate, the company of the Elders, without whose consent it is not lawfull for the Monkes to doe any thing. Robo∣am the sonne of Solomon did therefore leese his kingdome, because hee woulde not heare his elders. The Romaynes also had a senate by whose counsel they did all thinges, and wee haue our senate, the company or assembly of the elders. These wordes are plaine, that the church hath a senate, and this senate is the company of the elders, and that also the Monkes coulde doe nothing without their counsell. Howbeit this Canon applieth not this restraint to the B. but to the Monkes. And if wee shoulde vnderstande it of Bishops also, which this Canon doth not, yet were it but of counsell, not of necessary consent, and much lesse of ioint authority

with him. But the Question is nowe, what manner of elders these were? Whether they were such as these examples of the Romane Senate, or as the Elders whose counsel Roboam did refuse: or they were Ministers of the word and Sacraments? For our better vnderstanding hereof, we haue to resort to the cause handled immediatly before, which was the 15. cause. Quest. 7. Absque Synodali. Without a synodal audience, for a Preest to bee condemned, it was in the Councell of Hispalis, wherin Isodorus was pre¦sent, forbidden, on this wise: Sexta actione, &c. In the sixt action we finde, that Flagitanus an Elder of the Church of Corduba, was in times past deposed by his Bishop, and being innocent was condemned to exile (or banishment:) whome we finde againe to be restored to his own order: the same thing haue we againe decreed against your presumption, that according to the synodall sentēce of the holie fathers, none of you think that any Elder or Deacon ought to be deposed, without the examina∣tion of a Councel. For there are many that by tyrannicall power▪ not by authoritie Canonicall, doe condemne those that haue not bene exami∣ned. And as they exalt some for fauour sake, so they debase some for for hatred and enuy, and condem them vpon a lighte blast of opinion whose fault they mislike. For a bishoppe can alone giue honour vnto preestes and ministers: but he can not alone take it from them. For if those which in this worlde haue of their Lordes atteyned to the honor of their liberty, are not tumbled downe againe into the bond of serui∣tude, except they shal haue beene publikely accused, before the Praetors or cheefe Iustices and gouernours in the iudgement Court: how much more, they that beeing consecrated to the Altars of God are adorned with Ecclesiasticall honour: which verily neither by one condemning them, nor one iudging them, can bee deposed from the priuiledge of their honor, but by a present Synodall iudgement. That thing must wholy be determined of them, that the Canon hath commaunded.

And it followeth Si quid. &c. If any thing shall come to thine eares of any Clearke, that may iustly offend thee, beleeue it not easily, leaste the matter being not knowne doe inflambe thee by reuengement. But the trueth of the matter is to be searched out diligently in the presence of Seniors of the Church, and then, (if the quality of the matter shall re∣quire it) let the Canonicall correction strike the fault of the offender. Héere are Seniors also of the Church named.

And againe, Episcopus. Let the Bishop hear the cause of none without the presence of his Clearkes, otherwise the bishoppes sentence shall bee voyde, except it be established by the presence of the Clearkes. Heere the Bishop is restrayned that albeit he may doe some thing alone, vnto his Clearkes, Ministers, Seniors, and Elders: yet that he may not alone and without the presence of their assembly, depose any of them from his

liuing, &c. But who are these Clearkes, Ministers, Seniors, and Elders, in whose presence he must doe these thinges? Doth hee admitte any other then Bishops them-selues, or at least the Sacerdotall Preestes? the glosse (disputing this matter, who should be this Counsel, or Chapter, or sitters by with the Bishops,) to proue that they must be all Clearkes, referreth vs to the sixt cause, Quest. 3. Scitote. Knowe yee, that to be a certayne pro∣uince, which hath ten or eleuen Cities, and one King, and as many infe∣rior potestates vnder him, one Metropolitane, and other suffraganes, 10 or 11. Bishops, being Iudges, vnto whose Iudgement all the causes of the Bishops, and of other preestes and Cities, may bee referred. That matters may be discerned by all these, Iustly and with consonant voice, except they that are to be iudgd do appeal to a higher authority. It must not bee that euery prouince shoulde be debased or dishonoured, but shoulde haue in it selfe Iudges, euery of the Preestes and Bishops. That is to wit, according to their orders. Whereby it appeareth that these Ecclesiasticall Senates of such as sat in the Councelles and Iudgementes of Preestes were eyther Bishops or at leaste Sacerdotall preestes onely, and not persons of inferior orders, but euery one was Iudged according to their estate, by them that were (at the least) of their owne orders, and not Teachers by such as were no Teachers.

Nowe after this fiftéenth cause wherein hee treateth of Clearkes, El∣ders, Seniors, Ministers and Priests indifferently: This next cause, to wit, the sixteenth▪ Which Danaeus citeth, is altogether of Monkes, and especi∣ally that first Question which he alleageth. Whether they may doe that thing (in respect simply they be Monkes, that secular Clearkes and preests or Elders) may doe. This first Question is this, Vtrum Monachis liceat of∣ficia populis celebrare, poenitentiam dare, & baptizare. Whether Monkes may celebrate the Diuine seruice to the people, enioyne penitence and bap∣tise? To the which, the answere is this, They can-not. And anon amongst other reasons, he alleageth this out of Hierome also, Ad Riparium & de∣siderium: Monachus non docentis sed plangentis habet officium. A Monke hath not the office of a Teacher, but of a mourner. And euen immediatly be∣fore that which Danaeus citeth, are these wordes: Alia causa. The cause of a Monke is another, and another the cause of a Clearke: The Clearke, feede the Sheepe, (sayth the Monke) I am fedde: they liue of the Altar, the Axe is put to me, as at the roote of an vnfruitfull tree: If I bring not my gift vnto the Altar, It is not lawfull for me to sitte before an El∣der: if I shall sinne, it is lawfull for him to deliuer me to Sathan, for the destruction of the Flesh, that the spirite in day of the Lorde might bee safe. Idem ad Rusticum. The same (is in Hieroms▪ Epistle) vnto Rusticus. And here commeth in that which Danaeus citeth: Ecclesia: The church hath a Senate, the assembly of Elders, without whose councell it is lawfull for

the Monkes to doe nothing. All this now duely considered: it is manifest, that by this the Churches Senate or assembly of Elders, is meant onely a Senate of such Elders, as did feede both the people and the Monkes al∣so, with the Worde and Sacramentes. For so the glosse expoundeth the Monkes wordes, Ego pascor, I am fedde, A sacramentis ipsorum, of their Sacraments. And that these Elders liued of the Altar, and that the very Monks in those days, were not exempted from paying tythes or offerings vnto them. And that these Elders might excommunicate these Monkes so well as they might other men. By all which it appeareth, that this Eccle∣siasticall Senate was none other, but an assembly, Colleage or Consistory of Preestes or Pastorall Elders.

And as for any other Ecclesiasticall Presbyters or Elders, in all or any of the Canons either of the Councells Generall or Prouinciall, or of the Bishops, or of the whole body of the Canon Lawes, Decrees or Decretals, then such Elders as were Ministers of the Worde and Sacramentes: Our Brethren shall finde but sory comfort. No nor in any of the Doctors of the Church. And therefore it is their best (as I take it) to leaue all further search that wayes, for anie proofe or practise at all of such Ecclesiasticall Gouerning and not teaching Elders in the Church, euen from the verie Apostles times. And this withall is to be obserued, that where our Bret. would now beare the worlde in hande, there were such Senates and Seg∣niories of these gouerning and not teaching Elders, in the Primitiue & in the auncient Church: and for proofe heereof, dare aduenture to cite all these testimonies: (and if I coulde finde that they cited any mo,) I woulde craue pardon to search them likewise) which when they are all viewed & examined: there is not one Father, not one Historiographer, not one Ca∣non, that maketh any whit, for any such kinde of Elder, as our Brethren pretende to vs, is worne out of vse, and they nowe endeuour to haue again euiued.

I knowe that these our reuerend Brethren (beeing both godly and learned men) doe not cite these authors of any set purpose to deceiue vs, in Fathering that on them which they neuer spak, nor thought, nor knew: but as the prouerbe sayth mistaking makes misse-reckoning: so they (ha∣uing conceiued this with them-selues, that such a kinde of Gouerning and not teaching Ecclesiasticall Elders there was in the Apostles times, and in the Primitiue Church:) so often as they reade in the Fa∣thers the name of Presbyters of Elders, especially, if there bee any men∣tion of Senate, College or company of them, and that these in any mat∣ters ioyned with the Bishop (to whome they apply onely the name and office of Pastorall Elder:) straight-way they conceiued that which they fancied, that these Elders were those Ecclesiastical Elders gouerning on∣ly and not medling with teaching▪

Which too quick conceiuing, vpon their forestalled opinion, (especially in the heate of zeale to haue thinges amended,) may fall out nowe and then, for lacke of more mature deliberation and examining, euen to the best learned and most holy men. And that (I thinke) hath beene the cause of our Brethrens misliking and misseporting the Fathers meaninges in the El∣dership. Which when their selues shall apperceiue, I doubt not (for the reuerent opinion I haue of them, and of all our Brethren) but that they will relent in this behalf, at leastwise, for these fathers thus cited amisse, and eyther let them all goe, or séeke further in them, or in other, for other and better Testimonies, than these alleaged. Which if they shall finde, and can clearely euict thereby, that there were any such: for my part, I shall be moste ready to acknowledge it. Howbeit, when they shall haue prooued, that such at any time in the Church of Christe there were: yet woulde not that example inferre a necessity, that there ought to bee such alwayes and euery where, because there was such sometimes, perhappes, and in some places.

But sence as yet, we neither heare of rule, nor example of them: we may (I hope) with safe conscience dissent from them. Sith there∣fore, it can not hetherto be prooued by any of these Fathers: Let vs nowe sée these excellent learned mens allegations and examples for these El∣ders, out of the holy Sciptures, if yet in them, we may finde better and in∣uincible proofe, that at least in the Apostles times, there were such El∣ders, for then there is no remedy, but wee must needes yeelde that such there were, Sith we also (as is our bounden duety) do admit and reue∣rence the holy Scriptures, with the same honor that our Brethren doe. Albeit, neither we nor they can make any perpetuall rule, of euery parti∣culer example in the scripture. But let the rule thereof fall out as it shall, let vs yet sée, what examples in the scripture our Brethren a∣uouche.

In the seuenth Chapter aforesayde, 2. Parte Christ. Isag. Danaeus af∣ter his citations of Basil and Dionysius, alleageth saint Paule (as yee haue heard) saying: Therefore they may thus better be distinguished, that of the perpetuall orders in the Church, other shoulde bee occupied in the treatie of the Worde of God, which Paule generally calleth 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, Pro∣phecy, Rom. 12. verse. 6. Or else in the procuring of other thinges, the which seemeth by a Generall name to bee of other called 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. Gouernaunce, but of Paule it is called 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, Rom. 12.

This Testimony is also alleaged of Beza in his Christian Confession, Chapter 5. Artic 32. with the 1 Corinth. 12. verse 28. prefixed thereun∣to. The same Testimony likewise citeth Caluine, in his Institutions Cap. 8. Sec. 42. saying.

But as for that that I called bishops, & elders, and pastors, & Ministers

indifferently, those that gouerne the Church: I did it out of the vse of the scripture, which confundeth these tearmes. For whosoeuer enioy the ministery of the worde, it giueth to them the title of Bishops. So with Paule, where Titus was commaunded towne by towne to ordeine Elders, streight-wayes is set vnder it, for a Bishop must bee blamelesse, &c. So in an other place hee saluteth moe Bishops in one City. And in the Acts is rehearsed, that hee called the Ephesine Elders together, whom hee his-selfe in his oration nameth Bishops. Heere nowe wee must ob∣serue that hetherto wee haue reckoned none, but those offices that con∣sist in the ministery of the Worde, neyther of other doth Paule make remembraunce in that fourth Chapter to the Ephesians, which we haue cited. Howbeit, in the Epistle to the Romaynes, and in the former to the Corinthians, he reckoneth vp other, as powers, the giftes of healing, interpretation, Gouernment, tendance on the poore, of the which I o∣mit those that were temporary, because it is no importance to stande long about them. But there are two which abide perpetually: gouern∣m••nt, and the car•• of the poore. Gouernours (I thinke) were seniors, chosen from among the common peopl••, which shoulde together with the bishops, rule the Censure or controlement of manners, and the dis∣cipline that shoulde bee exercised. For yee can-not otherwise interpret that which hee sayth: hee that rule••h let him do it in carefulnesse. Ther∣fore euery Church from the beginning had her senate enrolled, of God∣ly, graue and holy men. Moreouer that that kinde of order was not of that onely age, the experience it selfe doth declare. Therefore this gift al∣so of Gouernment is necessary for all ages.

Thus doe Caluine, Beza and Danaeus (for in these thrée as principall I comprehende any other of our Brethren that followe them) gather this Senate of Gouerning and not teaching Elders, on these two testimonies Romaynes 12. and 1 Corinthians 12. As for that which Caluine heere speaketh of the scriptures indifferent vse of the names of bishops and Elders: We haue already séene sufficiently, howe it was vsed, and howe it was altered, euen in the Apostles times. And haue séene withall, suffici∣ent proofe of the superiority of one among the Elders, yea, among the A∣postles themselues, which was more peculiarly called bishop, and that by Caluines and Bezaes owne confessions. But for these two places in the Scripture héere cited, Romans 12. & 1. Corinthians 12. that al the gifts or offices there mencioned, are either temporary or perpetuall, the Apo∣stle expresseth not, the euent onely sheweth that point Not but that Go∣uernment shoulde be alwayes in the Church, and care of the poore also. As our Sauiour sayth, Iohn, 12. The poore yee shall haue alwayes with you: and then charity inferreth a good consequence, that wee shoulde al∣wayes haue a care of the poore, and the Scripture is plentifull in that

behalfe. And so likewise for Gouernors and care of Gouernment. But whether the like forme of Gouernment, and of care for the poore, and the like, or rother the same kinde of officers for these thinges, shoulde bée alwayes in the Church and perdetually abiding: that is not héere decla∣red. Neither yet that the giftes or offices of Gouernment mentioned in these places, were of any such officers and Elders Gouerning and not teaching, as our Brethren do pretende they were. Onely Caluine sayth Existimo. &c. I suppose (or thinke) that the Gouernors were Seniors cho¦sen out of the common people, which together with the Bishop shold rule the censure (or controulement) of manners, and the Discipline that shoulde be exercised. This is but Caluines thinking. Who though hee were a most excellent man, yet his supposing and thinking, though it may mooue many to thinke as he did, yet it bindeth none, but that another man may thinke otherwise, as Beza also in many thinges, thinketh otherwise than Caluine doth. But when Caluine addeth on his thinking, that these wordes, Hee that ruleth, let him doe it in carefulnesse, can∣not be interpreted otherwise: This is some-what further then needeth. Can none that ruleth be carefull in his ruling, but he must be a ruler cho∣sen from among the common people? & that hee must be a controller of manners, and of the Discipline that shoulde be exercised? and that in this Gouernment he must ioyne together with the Bishop? and that hée must not meddle with teaching? what necessity is there in these Testi∣monies, to interprete these Gouernours to bee such Gouernours? and that it can-not bee interpreted otherwise? is there any other heere al∣leaged than Caluines bare thinking? and wee haue herad already howe excellent men haue thought and interpreted these words otherwise, and alleaged their reasons for the same. And I sée no reason to the contrary, why they may not be interpreted, both for ciuil Magistrares in the church and also for Bishops and Pastors that are Teachers: or for who-soeuer hath any rule and Gouernment committed to him, to dee it heedefully and with carefulnesse.

Nowe vpon these his bare supposall or thinking, and on his onely a∣uouching that it can bée interpreted no otherwise, which must easily and without any absurdity, may bée vnderstood for diuers other: Caluine con∣cludeth, that therefore euery Churche from the beginning, hadde her se∣nate enrolled of Godly graue and holy men, that had the iurisdiction of correcting vices. Whereas Saint Paule mentioneth no such thing, neither in these places, nor in any other. Neither is there any likelihood, that it was in euery Church, if it were in some, or in any, nor Danaeus him-selfe dare goe so farre, as to euery Churche, but to some Chur∣ches.

Danaeus confesseth, that from the beginning there were in-déede pa∣storall

Elders in euery Church. And he alleageth a reason, saying: Cap. 10. For the former and cheefer care was in the Churches, that the word of God should be preached. And therefore as pastors, Preachers should bee chosen. The 2. kinde of Elders (hee meaneth these Elders, nowe in Question) was wont to be appointed in euery greater City only, where∣in there was a large and populous Church, and a great number of the faythfull▪ which is cleane contrary both to Caluine, and to our Brethren in this Learned discourse, that woulde haue these Elders in euerie church and Congregation. And much l••sse doth this appeare, that it was in eue∣ry Church euen from the very beginning thereof. The Apostles them∣selues had not the office of Deacons, no not in Hierusalem the Mother Church of all▪ from the beginning. But in continuaunce the same was added (as the number increasing) there grewe neede of them.

But Caluine proceeding on this conclusion, saith: that nowe it was not an order of one age, meaning it was of more then one. And Seculum an age, is commonly vnderstoode for an hundreth yeares. As though it left not of in so short a space, and hereupon he puts him-selfe for proofe, to the declaration of the experience. But what time, or whether any mo¦full ages, or howe many: he him-selfe declareth not, but leaneth vs to search. But (for that we haue already searched,) wee can-not hear so much as of any one age. Age? nay, nor one yeare, nor one Moneth, nor one wéeke, nor one day, nor one houre, nor one moment, eyther of anie one such Senate or, but of one such mā, for any certainty that we haue hetherto founde. But in all the experience that our Brethren hetherto haue de∣clared: we haue founde eyther playne proofe, or farre more probalilitie, that all those whome they haue alleaged were such Elders, as withall were Ministers of the Worde. And yet, if all this, that Caluine vpon his bare thinking runneth on withall, coulde be auouched: it were not able to bear out his final conclusion, for these his supposed Elders, saying: There∣fore this office also of Gouernment is necessary for all ages. Where in∣déede he might haue concluded much better, that it is not necessary for all ages. Yea, although there had béene experience of some ages, Churches, or persons: yet, wanting a rule and commaundement for them: what neces∣sitie can or ought to be perpetually imposed on all Churches for them, without a manifest oppression of our Christian liberty? And therefore, a∣way with this Worde necessary (except it bee construed in some gentle sence) especially, when as yet we haue not certainlie found, in the experi∣ence of the Doctors and of the Fathers, and of the historiographers, a∣ny one age of the Church of Christe, since, nor in the Apostles age, that had any such Ecclesiasticall Senate of Gouerning and not teaching El∣ders, as they imagine and woulde obtrude vnto vs.

And sith Caluine heere referreth that testimony of S Paule, Ephesians

4. vers, 11. to no other, but to such as were teachers of the worde: and S. Paule sheweth the reason why those giftes and offices were giuen, to wit, For the renewing ••f the Sayntes into the worke of the administration of the bo∣dy of Christe, vntill we all come into the vnity of fayth, and of the knowledge of the Sonne of God, into a perfect man, and into the measure of a full ripe age, that wee shoulde not nowe bee Children any longer, which are caried away with euery blast of Doctrine: but following the trueth in loue, wee shoulde waxe strong by all thinges in him that is the heade, to witte Christe, in whome the whole body being coupled and compacted through out euery ioint of the Ministration, according to the act in the measure of euery part: maketh the encrease of the body, to the edi∣fication of it selfe, by loue: Ephes. 4.

If all this can bée done by the offices there cited, of the which none haue perpetuity hereunto, but these twain (as our Brethren deuide them, which may be also well contracted vnto one) Pastors and Doctors: either our Gouerning Elders that our Brethren pleade for, must bee included within these, and then can they not bee such as they pleade for (for they woulde haue them neither Pastors and Doctors, but a distinguished office from them both, and not medling with teaching, which is the cheefest thing in Pastors and Doctors) or else there is no necessity of their perpe∣tuity, nor of necessary helping to the accomplishment of these so necessary endes. If they replie, that the Deacons neither be there mentioned, and yet they be perpetuall, and helping hereunto: albeit we shall God willing hereafter sée, in their more proper treatise, howe they are perpetuall and necessary, and how not: yet what letteth, but that, (as at the very first ere∣ction of them,) they were not excluded from teaching and preaching? (ex∣ample, Steuen and Philip. Neither can this shift serue, to say, that Philip (besides) was Euangelist, except they shew the like also for Steuen. And why then may not Deecons be comprehended in S. Pauls partition, Eph. 4. well ynough, and so Gouernors, Interpreters, Healers, Helpers, spea∣kers with diuerse languages, which might bee all teachers, saue onely these, not teaching but gouerning Ecclesiasticall Elders. Whose of∣fice (as implying a contradiction of teaching and not teaching) is not compatible with the other offices.

And if (as Danaeus here sayth) the name 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. gouernaunce, that the Apostle vseth, Rom. 12. bee there generall howe is it then restrayned to such a proper kinde of Ecclesiasticall Gouernment, of Elders not teach∣ers, more than of teaching elders, or, more then of Deacons? And if Paule (as Danaeus saith) vse the name 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, for these gouernors: which is either proper to Deacons, or taken generally, for the Ministery: why may it not better comprehend the pastors and teachers, which ordinarily are called Ministers, then these gouerning elders that are nor teachers?

The next proof out of the scripture that Danaeus citeth, (after his former

allegation of Hierome ad Rusticum, for the imitation of the Iewes Syne∣drion, we shall come to it (God willing) after warde, our Brethren lea∣ding vs to that argument. But because that standeth rather on a presup∣posall of an imitation, or continuance of the order in the old law among the Iewes, than any proofe of institution in the newe, among the Christi∣ans: let vs nowe first, go to those argumentes, whereby Danaeus will e∣uict, both manifest example and institution of these Elders, in the newe Testament. ca. 10. part, Christ. 2. Isagog. (or introduction (he sayth: Horum igi∣tur Presbyterorum qui, &c. The offices therefore of these Elders, that rule the manners, is to attende vppon the flocke, and to watche as well o∣uer the doctrine, as ouer the manners of the Church, and of the faith∣full that be in the same. Act. 20. ver. 28. 1. Pet. 5. ver. 2. and especially in his parishe, that is, in that part of the Church or region, which is cō∣mitted peculiarly to him. And verily concerning doctrine, least anie Haeresie should be brought in, and least any errour should be sowed, and generally least the substance of the faith should be corrupted. Act. 20. ver. 29.21. ver. 18. which thing may be done▪ and thereupon arise of∣fences, and those greeuous.

Here are thrée testimonies of scripture alleaged, of which the two for∣mer; Act. 20. and 1. Pet. 5. we haue séene sufficiently before; concerning those Elders, especially those that are mentioned, Act. 20. whether they were all Bishops of Ephesus, in the proper sense of the name of Bishop: but there the question was all of such Elders, as, whether they were all equall, or no, yet were they all Pastorall Elders, Teachers, and Ministers of the worde and Sacramentes. And our Brethren in this Learned Dis∣course, in their treatise of the Pastors office haue cited alreadie for suche Elders onely, these testimonies Act. 20. 1. Pet. 5. saying: pag. 19. Besides Doctors, there must be Pastors ordeyned in euerie congregation, which haue diuerse appellations in the scripture, as Ephes. 4. they are called by the name of Pastors, because they ought to feede the seuerall flockes of Gods sheepe committed to their charge. As appeareth, Act. 20.28. 1. Pet. 5.2. they are also called Elders &c. Againe page, 21.22. and 23. where at large they vrge this, that all the functions of the Elders mentioned, 1. Pet. 5. and Act. 20. is to be imployed in such gouernement only, as is fee∣ding, euen as a Pastor doth his sheepe. And that therfore they are called Bishops, Super-intendentes, or Ouer-seers. And yet sée how boldly Da∣naeus citeth teese testimonies, for these gouerning and not teaching El∣ders. Wherein, although our Brethren holde the truer opinion, and the text is plaine inough, that the elders there mentioned, were onely such as medled with the worde: yet the rather to mooue Danaeus with the iudge∣ment of Caluine also thereupon: Caluine likewise in his Institutions ca. 8 sec. 4. treating of the Pastors office, sayth: Of these and other places

which here & euery where come to hand, we may gather also that in the function of the Pastors, these are the principall parts, to declare the Gos∣pell, and to minister the Sacraments But the manner of teaching con∣sisteth not onely in publike sermons, but pertaineth also to priuate ad∣monitions. So dooth Paule cite the Ephesians to be witnesses, that hee shunned none of those things, that were for their profit, but declared & taught them publikely, and by euery house, &c. And in the 42. Section he saith: And in the Actes is rehearsed, that he called together the Ephe∣sian Elders, whom he himselfe in his oration nameth Bishops. Heere now is to be obserued. that hethertoh we haue reckoned vp none, but those offices, that consist in the ministerie of the word. In his Cōmen∣tarie indéed vpon the same ver. 17. he saith: Moreouer it shal more cleer∣ly appeere out of the context, that the Seniors are called, not they which were of olde age, but they which ruled the Church. But it is vsuall al∣most in all tongues, that they should be called Auncients, and Fathers, which were the Gouernors to rule others, although their Age did not alwaie: answere therevnto.

Heere he speaketh of gouerning Elders or Gouernors; which is the terme, wherby our Brethr. signifie their Segniorie. But now, what man∣ner of Gouernors or gouerning Elders, maketh he them to be? On these woords, Vos scitis, &c. ver. 18. In this sermon (saith he) Paul cheefly with hereunto, that those whome he had created the Pastors of Ephesus, hee might by his example, exhort them to performe their office faithfully. For so is the censure (or correction) of manners made aright, and au∣thoritie gotten to the doctrine, when the teacher prescribeth nothing with words, the which he hath not before in the deede it selfe perfour∣med. And so he goeth on, applying S. Paules words in euery verse, to Mi∣nisters and Pastors. And on the 26. verse, he saith; Moreouer this place conteineth a briefe summe of teaching orderly and well; and he exhor∣teth the Doctors themselues with a vehement and seuere statute, that they should diligently apply their office. And to this dutie of the Pastors, in the next verse he applieth the sayings of Ezech. 3.18.20. till he come to the 28. verse, which Danaeus citeth, where he concludeth thus; Since the time they were created Pastors, they are not their owne men, but pub∣likely bound to the whole flock. And on these words; The holy Ghost hath made you Bishops. Furthermore (saith he) although from the beginning the L. would haue the Ministers of the word chosen by voices: neuer∣theles he alwaies chalengeth to himselfe the gouernment of the Church, &c. And as he saith; We must breefly note this, of the name of Bishop, that all the Ephesine Elders were of Paule so called: so withall, we must note, that he said before in his Institutions: Whosoeuer enioyeth the mi∣nisterie of the word, hee giueth them the title of Bishops. And on these

woords; To rule the Church: The Greeke word 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 signifieth to feed: but by an apt similitude it is translated to any regiment. And on the 29. verse; This is verely as it were the perpetual destinie of the Church, that it should be vexed of wolues: wherfore there is neuer anie time of slee∣ping. Howbeitt, he more, & the more hurtful doo breake in; the more attentiue watches must be made of the Pastors, &c. And on the 30. ver. Then doth the synceritie of the word of God flourish, when the Pastors with a common studie doo gather disciples vnto Christ, &c. And in the 31. That he saith, he warned euerie one, may be as well referred to the common people, as to the Elders. For sith he had purposed to make his sermō common to the whole Church: he speaketh as though the whole bodie were present. Notwithstāding, if any had rather restraine it to the order of the Pastors, &c. So that in all this assembly of these Elders, hée mentioneth stil none other, but such as were Pastors and Ministers of the word and sacraments. This place therefore, Act. 20. (be it spoken by Da∣naeus leaue) is méerly abused, for the proofe of any Senate of not teaching Elders

And the same answere serueth to the other testimonie, 1. Pet. 5.2. which likewise our Breth. ioyne in this learned discourse, to their former testi∣m••••••e for Pastors onely: pag. 19.22.25. & 32. And the like doth Caluine (with all other interpreters new and olde) saying both in his Instit. ca. 13. Sect. 7. Peter therfore while he warneth the Pastors of their office, exhor∣teth them so to feede the flocke, that they exercise not a dominion ouer the Clergie. By which name he signifieth the inheritance of God, that is, the people of the faithfull. And in his Comm. While hee would exhort the Pastors to their dutie, he noteth cheefly three things, that are woont much to hinder thē, that is to wit, slothfulnes, desire of getting gain & li∣centiousnes of gouerning. True it is, y^t he afterward saith vpon y^• name Elders: By this name he designeth Pastors, and whosoeuer were appoin∣ted to the gouernement of the Church: but they called them Elders or Seniors for honors sake, not that all were olde in age, but because they were chiefly chosen out of old mē. For age hath for the most part, more wisdome, grauitie & experience. Howbeit because now & then (as is said in the Greek prouerb) The hoare heare is not wisdome: and there are young men found that are more fit, such as Timothie was: it is receaued in vse, that they also are called Elders, after they are chosen into the order. Whē as Peter likewise nameth himselfe an Elder, it appeareth that this name was common, the which also is manifest more cleerly in very many pla∣ces. Furthermore by this title he getteth authoritie to himself: as though he said, that of his owne right he warned the Pastors because he himselfe was one of them. For this mutual libertie ought to betweene them that are Colleagues.

Here he sayth that the name of Elder is a common name, not onely for olde age, but of dignitie. And he sayth, that the Apostle designeth in this name, Pastors and whosoeuer are appointed to the regiment of the Church: but doth he not still restrayne the vnderstanding of it in this place, to such Gouernours only, as either are Pastorall elders or to suche teachers as himselfe (although he were also an Apostle) was one in the same office of this Eldership, a Colleague among them? And what was their office of this Eldership that he requireth of them? But euen that which followeth in the seconde verse by Danaeus cited: feede so much as li∣••th in ••ou the flocke of God. And what was the foode wherewith these El∣ders should feede them so much as lay in them? Any other than the do∣ctrine of Gods worde? Hereupon (sayth Caluine) wee gather what the name of Elder doth import, to wit, that it contayneth in it the office of feeding. The Pope createth his Elders farre to an other ende, that is to wit, that they should dayly offer vp Christ. In their ordeyning there i•• no mention of feeding. Let vs therefore remember to discerne the order of Christ, from the confusion of the Pope, euen as it were the light from darkenesse. The definition also of the word ought to be holden. Because the flocke of Christ cannot be fedde, but with pure doctrine which alone is the spirituall fodder. Wherfore Pastors are not either dombe gho••••••s, or such as sprinkle their forged tales, as it were deadly poyson to kill the soules.

And vpon this worde 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉; I doubt not (sayth he) but that Peter would expresse the office and name of a bishopricke: it may also cut off other places of scripture be gathered, that these 2. Bishop and Elder, are names betokening one thing. He chargeth them therefore, howe they should rightly exercise the Pastorall office.

Who séeth not hereby, that Caluine in this place restrayneth the name of Elder to such onely as were feeders of the people with the worde, nor that Peter in that place, speaketh to any other officers? And to what pur∣pose should he charge those, to feede the people with the doctrine of the worde, that were no feeders, and medled not at all with teaching? So that this testimonie of Peter, 1. Pet. 5. maketh nothing for any such eccl. Elders gouerning the Churche and not teaching, if rather it make not cleane against them, being such ecclesiasticall Elders as be onely domini∣um exercentes in Clerum; exercising gouernement ouer the Clergie, and doe not pascere nor meddle at all with feeding or teaching the people.

As for that which Danaeus gathereth on these two testimonies, Act. 20. and 1. Pet. 5. that the office of these Elders was to attende and watche both ouer the doctrine and ouer the manners of the Church and of the faithfull that are therein, and especially in his parish, that is, in that parte of the Church that is peculiarly committed vnto him: in what thing the

attendance and watching of the Elders consisted, in these foresayde pla∣ces, we haue fully séene; Not only (as Danaeus sayth) ouer the doctrine and ouer the maners: but as themselues expressing the example of the manners: so also feeding with the doctrine so much as in them did lye. If they say, that is nothing at all, because they were but Controllers and Ouer-seers of others, and themselues meddled not with teaching: then were they not such Elders as S. Paule and S. Peter do prescribe, but what meaneth Danaeus by these wordes, his parishe? Which he expoundeth to be that part of the Church that peculiarly was committed to him? Was there diuerse parishes in those great Cities that he speaketh of, where hée supposeth a Senate of these Elders were, and that euery one of them had a part of the Citie assigned to his ouersight, which was called a Parish? And that all these Elders of seuerall parishes, had some one great and mo∣ther Church, wherein all these Elders helde their Senate, Seignorie, or Consistorie? And can this also be prooued out of these two places, or out of the scripture, that the Apostles ordeined any such Senate of gouerning and not teaching Elders, of seuerall parishes? If it could, how would this agrée with these our Brethren, that woulde haue a Senate, Seniorie, or Consistorie of these Elders in euerie parish Church and Congregation, except they would bring the whole Citie (as London) but to one Congre∣gation? But whereupon gathereth Danaeus this? Vppon these testimo∣nies, Act. 20. or 1▪ Pet. 5? No, he citeth them after in the conclusion of his former assertion. For when he had sayde: the seconde kinde of Elders was wont to be ordeyned in euery great Citie only, wherein there was a large and populous Church, and a great number of the faithfull: hée prooueth it thus; for euery part of the Citie, and of the Church, as it were a parish, had his owne Elder. As it may be gathered. ex Herm. Sozome. lib. 1. cap. 8. and the historie of the auncient Church. These last words, the historie of the auncient Church, are too generall. When the places are particularly quoted, they may be better examined. And we haue exa∣mined a good many alreadie. But we could finde no such seconde kinde of Elders. And I am halfe a fraide before hande, that wee shall finde none e∣uen in this place. And for triall, let vs start aside, and sée it.

The title of the Chapter sheweth the argument: An enumeration of the noble actes of Constantine, both in purchasing the libertie of the Christians, and in building of temples, and other thinges beneficiall to the common-weale. In which chapter among other matters, he sayth: he builded also in the Palace a Church, and he made a tente expressing the figure of a Church, the which he vsed to carie about with him when he marched in battell against his enemies: to this ende, that a Church should not be wanting to him nor to the armie, while hee aboade in the wildernesse. In which Church they should prayse God, they should call

vpon him with their praiers, and receaue the holy mysteries. Nam Sa∣cerdotes & Diaconi, &c. For the Priests & Deacons which according to the institution of the Church should performe these functions, did con∣tinually follow the Tabernacle. Ex eo tempore militaeres Romanorum ordines qui iam vocantur Numeri, singuli sibi Tabernaculum separatum construxerunt, hahuerúntque secum & Sacerdotes & Diaconos, ad rem diuinam faciendam designatos. From that time foorth the militarie orders of the Romanes, which are now called the Numbers, euery one of them builded a seueral Tabernacle, and had both Priestes and Deacons with them, appointed to execute the diuine seruice.

This is all that Sozomenus hath of this matter, and is not héere a faire proofe, that in euery greater Citie, wherein there was a faire & populous Church, & magnus fidelium numerus, and a great number of the faithfull, euery part of the Citie and Church had his Elder, whose office was to attend vpon the flocke, and to watch both ouer the doctrine and ouer the manners of the Church, and of the faithfull that are therein, and e∣specially in his Parish, that is, in that part of the Church that is commit∣ted vnto him. Indéede there is mencion made of some like wordes, that Danaeus gathereth.

Sozomenus telleth, how Constantine made a Tabernacle or Tent ex∣pressing the figure of a Church: therupon Danaeus belike gathereth these words; An ample and a populous Church: except he gather that of the words before; As for that that pertaineth to the holy Temples, they that were large inough, were repaired: other were raised higher & made bro∣der, not without increase of statelinesse.

Sozomenus telleth, how this Tabernacle was caried about in the wil∣dernesse, while Constantine marched against his enemies: and Danaeus ga∣thereth belike of this Wildernesse, a great Citie. Except also he gather that of the wordes before: Moreouer, out of the land which was tribu∣tarie in euery Citie, he tooke the rated tribute, that was wont to be pai∣ed to the Eschequer (or Treasurie) and distributed it to the Churches & to the Clergie: which gift he enacted by Lawe to be ratified for euer.

Sozomenus telleth of the militarie orders of the Romanes: and Da∣naeus belike gathereth thereupon, the flocke of the faithfull.

Sozomenus telleth, that these militarie orders of the Romanes were those which were then called; 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, Numeri, Numbers: and Danaeus belike gathereth thereupon, that there was Magnus fidelium numerus, A great number of the faithfull.

Sozomenus telleth, that From that time forth euery one of these mi∣litarie Orders builded a seuerall Tabernacle to themselues: and Danaeus belike gathereth thereupon these words, Euery part or parish of the Ci∣tie and of the Church.

Sozomenus telleth, how they had these 2. eccl. orders, Sacerdotes & Di∣aconos, sacred Priests & Deacons with thē: & Danaeus belike gathereth here vpon, Secundum genus Presbyterorum, the second kinde of Elders, Priests, or Presbyters.

Sozomenus telleth, how these did follow the Tabernacles, and were designed according to the Institution of the Church, to execute the di∣uine seruice and performe these functions; to wit, to praise God, to cal vpon him with praiers, and to minister the Sacraments: and Danaeus héereupon belike doth gather, that their office was to attend the flock, & to watch both ouer the doctrine and ouer the manners os the Church, and of the faithfull that are therein, ech one in the parish, part, or region committed to him.

Verely, except Danaeus gather these his collections, on these wordes of Sozomenus (for they be the words that me thinkes come néerest vnto his) I know not on what words els, he can make this collection. But to con∣ster Danaeus to the best: (as he is our Reuerend Brother, & excellent lear∣ned Father in the Lord: so, Bonus aliquando dormitat Homerus,) he ouer∣trusted and followed too much some others ill collection, and considered not the place himselfe, and so might easely be abused. Which least we also in so weightie a matter might be, especially on the trust of so notable a man (as, I am afraid, too many of our Brethren be, running too much on the credite of such a credible partie): it standeth vs vpon (crauing euermore pardon of him and all our betters) to search better the places, our selues, that are alleadged; and to sée, whether they be rightly alleadged, yea, or no. If yea: then humbly, (so farre forth as is requisite) to yéelde vnto them, be the partie neuer so meane, that doth alleadge them. If no: then modestly to dissent from them, and not allowe them, be the parties other∣wise neuer so learned. Christ biddeth vs, to Search, yea, the very Scrip∣tures: and so shall we finde whether they be well or ill alleadged. And the Baeroeans are euen therefore commended, for that daily they searched the Scriptures, to sée, whether those things were so, that S. Paule had prea∣ched. And then must our Br. be content to giue vs leaue, if we examine these testimonies by the originals, which in this place also when we haue done, (besides a number of other grosse escapes,) what is héere for y^e proofe of these Cōsistorie gouerning & not teaching Elders? Is this Elder now become 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, Sacerdos, a sacred Priest, the executer of the diuine seruice, & a minister of the holy mysteries? Well thē, since we find not as yet these Elders here; let vs return again to Danaeus search for thē in the scripture.

The third testimonie of Scripture that héere he cited, was Act. 21.18. And when we were come to Ierusalem (saith S. Luke, verse 17.) the Bre∣theren did receaue vs gladly. But the next day Paule entred in with vs vnto Iames; and all the Elders were assembled.

Heere are againe Elders named, and an assembly of them all at Ie∣rusalem. But whether these Elders were onely gouernors and not medlers with teaching of the worde, that is not mencioned. Neither is there any circumstance, that should encline to such opinion of them, but rather to the cleane contrarie. Caluine sayth: out of this place we may gather, that which we had in the 15. chapter, that so often as any waigh∣tie businesse was to be treated vppon, the Seniors were woont to come together, that the consultation might bee the more orderly com∣posed without the multitude. We shall afterwarde see in their order that the people were admitted. Howbeit, after that the Seniors had had their Innermore Counsell.

Sith therefore these Seniors consultation with the Apostles, was not onely about manners and discipline, but about principall pointes of the substance of doctrine: and withall, that Caluine referreth vs to these Se∣niors (or Elders) in the counsell holden at Ierusalem, Act. 15. where Cal∣uine sayde before, as he sayth here, that all the Churche was not gathe∣red: sed eos qui doctrina & iudicio pollebant, & qui ex ratione officij, huius cau∣sae legitimi erant iudices: but those that excelled in doctrine and iudge∣ment, and they that by reason of their office, were the lawefull iudges of this cause: what likelihoode is there, that these Elders meddled not with teaching the doctrine, which excelled in the doctrine, and in iudg∣ment, and by their offices were the lawfull iudges, in the decision of the controuersies of doctrine?

But since the oration that is made vnto Paule, Act. 21. is by S. Luke set downe in the name of them all: albeit some one among them spake it in their names: and they were such as of whom Caluine sayth, vpon these their wordes to Paule: Thou seest (brother) how manie thousands, &c. More∣ouer, they exhort him, that taking vpon him a solemne vowe, he should purge himselfe, &c. There is no doubt, but that zeale of the Lawe was faultie: and verely the Elders doo sufficiently declare, that they liked it not. For although they do not openly condemne it, neither yet com∣plaine thereon more sharply: neuertheles, because they separate them∣selues from their affection, secretly they confesse that they doo erre. If it had bene a zeale according to knowledge, it ought to haue begun from them. But they striue not for the Lawe it selfe, nor they pretend iust re∣uerence thereof, nor they subscribe vnto them that were zealous of the same, as they call them: therefore they insinuate that they thinke other∣wise, & that they like not the peoples superstition. But this ouerthwar∣teth it, that they say Paule was burdened with a false infamie. Further∣more, when they exact of him a satisfaction, they seeme to nourish that zeale, &c.

And againe: Neither verely was the libertie of Paule vnknowen to the

Elders, when as therefore they knew the matter well, onely this they wil, that it should be witnessed to the vnskilfull and rude, that Paule purpo∣sed nothing lesse, than that hee should bring the Iewes to the contempt of the lawe. Wherefore they looke not vpon the bare matter, but know∣ing what was the peoples iudgement of Paule, by reason of the malicious backbitings: they desire to remedie it. Although I knowe not whether they required this of Paul more importunatlie than was meet. But heere∣vppon it appeareth, how preposterous is the credulitie (or light beleef) of men, in taking holde of slaunders: and howe stiflie an ill opinion once rashlie conceiued, cleaueth fast. There is no doubte but that Iames and his colleagues did their indeauor to defende the fame of Paul. And a∣gaine; in the meane season wee see howe modestlie the Seniors beha∣ued themselues in nourishing concorde: while in good time they pre∣uent the peoples offence, excepte in that they beare peraduenture too much with their weaknesse, in exacting a vowe of Paule. But this mo∣deration is to bee kept in the Church, that the Pastors shoulde indeede excell in authoritie: but they shoulde not rule proudelie, nor de∣spise the residue of the bodie. For the distinction of their orders, which is the bonde of peace, ought not to bee the cause of dis∣corde.

What can bee more cleere than this, that these Elders which spake these things, and tooke this authoritie in these matters vppon them, were Pa∣stors? As Caluine in plaine wordes applyeth all theyr dooings vnto Pa∣stors. And yet this more appeareth in his obseruation of that which followeth on the 23. verse: Doe this therefore that wee saie vnto thee, wee haue foure men which haue made a vowe, &c. Although it may bee, that these (he meaneth the foure men) wer as yet nouices & that therfore their faith as yet were tender, and scarse well framed, whervpon the Do∣ctors (or teachers) suffered them to performe the vow, that by ignorance they had rashly vowed.

In these wordes, the Elders that before he called Iames and his colle∣gues, and of their doings gathered the rule and authoritie of the Pastors: he plainlie heere calleth Doctors and teachers. And therefore what kinde of Elders these were vnder Iames and the Apostles at Hierusalem, we neede seeke no further, it is manifest they were not gouernours that med∣led not with teaching, but with ouersight of doctrine, and with correc∣tion of manners and discipline onelie: for as they were teachers, and heere taught, though not so wel: so, their chiefest medling was with teach∣ing. And that their selues testifie in the conclusion of their Oration, saying: For as touching those of the Gentiles that haue beleeued, ••e haue written, decree∣ing that they should keepe no such thing, &c.

If our Brethren replie, that that decree went in the name not onelie

of the Apostles and Elders, but also of the brethren, which in the verse be∣fore, Act. 15.22. he calleth the whole Church: and yet, we cannot conclude hereon, that therefore the whole Church were teachers: Caluine (refer∣ring vs to that, which he noted on that decree) saith, on the 22. ver, Act. 15. Not without the singular grace of God was that tempest ceased, that the cause being well discussed, all should descend into the consent of the true doctrine. The modestie also of the common people is gathered here∣vpon, that after they had permitted the iudgement vnto the Apostles, & to the residue of the Doctors (or teachers): then also the people subscri∣bed vnto their decree. The Apostles also on the other side, gaue a shewe of their equity, because they established nothing cōcerning the common cause of all the godlie, but the people beeing admitted thervnto. For, ve∣rilie, of the pride of the Pastors this tyrannie hath sprong, that those things which pertaine to the common state of the whole Church, haue bene subiect (the people being thrust out) vnto the will, that I might not saie vnto the lust of a few men. But the Apostles and the Elders did pru∣dentlie decree, that Iudas and Silas shoulde bee sent, to the end the mat∣ter might bee lesse suspected.

Concerning this complaint we haue alreadie aunswered: and let them giue the people no more than the notice and approbation, so that the deba∣ting and determining be referred to the authoritie of those that succéede the Apostles and the Elders, that are Doctors and Pastors, medling only with such matters as are these, not with the affaires and authoritie of Princes: and we can be content to affoord the people no lesse, being such modest and godlie people as these were. But our question is now, what were these El∣ders? (For here are but thrée sorts reckoned vp, the Apostles, the Elders, and the whole Church, or the brethren. Forsooth (still saith Caluine) the Doctors and the Pastors. And for other kind of Elders gouerning and not teaching among them, we heare as yet of none.

But Danaeus citeth another testimonie out of the Scripture, for proofe of these Elders, saying:

For they ought to haue that admonition of Paule alwaies before their cies, that if there be anie thing honest, right and holie before GOD, they should inculcate (or often vrge) the same vnto the faithfull. Phi. 4. verse. 8. and it ought to take place in Gods Church.

This testimonie is so little seruing for these gouerning and not teach∣ing Elders, that except they would haue vs thinke, the Epistle was onelie, or especiallie written vnto such Elders: I cannot sée how it is more appli∣able vnto them, than vnto anie others, or howe it can bee proued heerevp∣pon, that there were anie such Elders in that Church. First, the Epistle it selfe is written to none such, as appeareth by the first verse: Paule and Timothie the seruants of Iesus Christe, vnto all the Saintes in Christe Iesu, which

are at Philippus, with the Bishoppos and the Deacons. Héere is none of these Elders not medling with teaching, named. For although Beza and the Geneua Bible woulde include them in the name of Bishoppes, which is verie harde: notwithstanding sith wée haue heard, howe Caluine (euen where hée taketh all these names confusedlie) doth saie in his Institutions, Cap. 8. Sec. 42. But as concerning Bishoppes, and Elders, and Pastors, and Ministers, in that I haue called them without difference: I did it by the vse of the Scripture, which confoundeth these tearmes. For who∣soeuer inioy the ministerie of the worde, vnto them it attributeth the ti∣tle of Bishoppes. And heereto he addeth this testimonie for proofe, Phil. 1. a. 1. therefore, howsoeuer they woulde include Elders heere in the name of Bishoppes, yet can they vnderstand no such Elders, as Danaeus and our Brethren pleade for, but such onelie as inioye the ministerie of the worde.

But what is there in this testimonie, Phil. 4.8. that shoulde bee properlie pertaining to an Elders office? That which remaineth (Brethren) whatsoeuer things are true, whatsoeuer are waightie, whatsoeuer are righteous, whatsoeuer are pure, whatsoeuer are honest, if there bee anie vertue, if there bee a∣nie praise: thinke of these things which yee haue learned, and haue receiued, and haue heard, and haue seene in mee. Doo these things, and the God of peace shall be with you. Can anie thing bée gathered out of these wordes, that is pe∣culiar to an Ecclesiasticall Elders office? Caluine sayth: Generall exhor∣tations followe, which are stretched to the whole life. And yet if they were peculiar to Elders, and that they shoulde doe, all that which they learned, and receiued, and heard, and sawe in Saint Paule: When Caluine sayth, By this repetition of wordes he signifieth, that hee was continuall in preaching these thinges, as though hee shoulde saie, this was my doctrine, this was my tradition, this was my speech among you: And on these wordes: Yee haue seene in mee: but this is the first thing in a preacher, that hee shoulde not onelie speake with his mouth, but with his life, and with his goodnesse of his life get credite to his doctrine: Paule therefore worthilie getteth authoritie to his exhortation there∣vpon, that hee was a guide and maister of vertues with his life, no lesse than with his mouth: And therefore if this bée spoken to Ecclesiasticall Elders, and if they should doe the lyke action: howe should they not be such Elders, as taught not onelie with their liues, but with their mouths also, exhorting and preaching the doctrine? But what neede better testi∣monie, than Danaeus against himselfe? When hee sayth: These Elders should inculcate this saying of Saint Paule vnto the faithfull? For, what else is this inculcation, but their often teaching of the people, the things contained in that sentence? But Danaeus (belike not perceiuing how he confutes himselfe) procéedeth, saying:

But these Elders ought to watch both pri••atlie by euerie house, and publikelie in the assemblie of the Church. Act. 20. verse. 20. Augustine there fore in his fiftie Homilies, Homilie the 5. anc 7. teacheth, that that saying of Esaie, Crie, cease not: pertaineth not onelie to the Bishoppes, but also to the Elders. For, when many mischeifes may be done at home: and they that corrupt the faithfull are wont also to enter into houses, as Paul saith, 2. Tim. 3. ve. 6. It is the office of them that watch, to looke also house by house, least either the good doctrine or the holie manners bee cor∣rupted. But of those things that may be done amisse in houses, there is example, 1. Pet. 3. verse 3. But of those that edifie euill publiklie, there is example, 1. Cor. 14 verse. 34. and 35.

Not one of these places mencioneth anie such Elders, as are Ecclesiasti∣call gouernours and not teachers, neither can they bée haled, but with vi∣olence, to them. The 20. of the Acts, we haue seene and séene againe to the full, how it is all of such Elders, as were teachers of the worde. The place in Augustine wée haue likewise séene. And that of Esaie is so apparaunt for teachers and preachers of the word, that I a•• euen ashamed that so lear∣ned a man should (of all places) alleage that, for not teaching Elders, which speaketh of such crying out, exalting the voice like a trumpet, and telling the people of their sinnes.

As for this, 2. Tim. 3. verse. 6. wherein Saint Paule hauing described the wicked hypocrites of these later dayes, that shoulde trouble the Church of God, hée sayth: For of these there are, that craftilie enter into houses, and leade women captiue, loden with sinnes, the which are lead with diuerse lusts, alwayes learning, &c. Wherevpon saith Caluine, You woulde saie, that Paule heere of purpose painted out a liuelie pourtraiture of Monkerie. But to omitte the name of Monkes: the notes themselues with the which Paule setteth out the false and counterfaite Doctors or teachers, are o∣pen inough. Their insinuation or creepings into householdes, theyr baites in taking women, theyr vnhonest flatterie, their leading them a∣bout by diuerse superstitions. It behoueth vs to marke diligentlie these notes, if we desire to discerne betweene the vnprofitable drones, and the good ministers of Christ.

Héere Caluine woulde haue vs diligentlie to marke the difference, be∣twéene these false and counterfait teachers, and the good Ministers of Christ: not betwéene them and these Elders, that woulde haue Ecclesiasti∣call gouernment, and not meddle with teaching. For mée thinkes, they rather séeme to resemble those Monkes, than anie Elders, that Saint Paule there would haue, to oppose themselues against these false teachers. For who shoulde better set himselfe against them, than a Bishoppe or an El∣der that is a good Minister of Christ, and a true teacher? And therefore hée willeth Timothie (béeing a teaching Elder,) to take notice of them, say∣ing,

verse. 1. But knowe thou this, that in the last daies, perillous times shall ap∣proch, men shall bee louers of themselues, &c. And hauing described these wic∣ked teachers: hée stirreth vp Timothie to oppose himselfe against them, vers. 10. saying: But thou hast attained my doctrine, institution, purpose, faith, tollerance, loue, patience, &c.

And héere vpon sayth Caluine: This argument also dooth hee vse to stirre vp Timothie, that he shall not come foorth into the combat, a rude and vnskilfull young souldiour: beeing such an one as Paule himselfe had long time trained vp in his discipline. Neither onelie is doctrine handled, for the things that hee reckoneth vp together, doo adde no small waight, insomuch that in this sentence hee dooth paint out vnto vs the liuelie Image of a good Doctor (or teacher) to wit, such an one as informeth and instructeth his Disciples, not onelie with his speech, but openeth his breast also after a sorte vnto them, that they maye vnder∣stande, that the things which hee teacheth, hee teacheth them euen as he thinketh.

He••e then are these two liuelie Images, the one of the false teacher, en∣tering into houses, and corrupting them: the other of the good teacher, opposing himselfe against the false teacher. But betwéene good teacher and false teacher of these houses; where is this Elder that is no teacher? Is there any thing either in the text, or that Caluine, or anie other good or badde interpreter alleadgeth, that makeeth for him?

As for the example, 1. Pet. 3. verse. 3. That things may bee done amisse at home: is nothing for proofe, that anie of these Elders, Ecclesiasticall go∣uernours and not teachers, or that anie their Segnorie, shoulde come in∣to mens houses, and there take view of their wiues apparell, and controll it. Onelie Saint Peter (in giuing this sober and generall exhortation vnto women, saying: Whose attire let it not bee outward in folding or breidring of their haire, in decking themselues with golde and ornature of vestiments••s) shew∣eth howe the graue and discréete Minister or Preacher, may giue priuate or publike exhortation, by the examples in the worde of God, when hee séeth a fault heerein. But not that he hath authoritie to goe into their hou∣ses, to ouersée with what apparell they trimme themselues withall. But whatsoeuer the Minister may doe, what is this to these Elders, that woulde bée maister controllers and rulers of euerie bodie, men and women, euen in their owne houses, but not teachers of them?

The other place, 1. Corinth. 14.34. and 35. for the womens parte, wée haue méetelie well perused alreadie. As for gouerning Elders not teach∣ers, to be their controllers, neither those verses, nor all the Chapter men∣cioneth anie. And why shoulde they not bée controllers ouer the mennes faultes there mencioned, as wel as ouer the womens? But there is none such at all, that the Apostle there speaketh of, other than the ordinarie tea∣chers

to whome the publike reprehension did belong. Which in the former cited Chapter, 2. Tim. 3.16. and 4.2. he maketh to pertaine vnto the tea∣cher and Minister of the word of God, and not to anie gouerning Elder not teaching, who may better be called an vnpreaching Prelate, than anie of the Popish Bishops. Especiallie since Beza and the Geneua Bible gi∣ueth them the tearme of Bishoppes also, besides this of Presbyter, Priest, or Elder.

But Danaeus hath yet one other testimonie for them, saying: But the Elders ought to watch both ouer the hoale and ouer the sicke, and affli∣cted by all manner of meane. For it is the office of the Elder to comfort the sicke, and to praie for them, & for other godlie also afflicted. Iames. 5 verse. 5.14.

The fifth verse hath no mencion at all of anie Elders, nor medleth with anie watching ouer▪ either hoale or sicke. Except these Elders would bée such, as of whom hee saith: Yee haue liued in pleasure on the earth, and in wan∣tonnesse: ye haue nourished your hearts as in a daie of slaughter. I hope yet better then so, of their vnteaching Elders. But in the 14. ver. there indéed is mē∣cion of better Elders. Where the Apostle saith: Is anie sicke among you? let him call f••r the Elders of the Church, and let them praie for him, &c. Héere the Elders of the Church are named. But whether these Elders were such, as medled not with the worde and Sacraments, but onelie with the disci∣pline and gouernment of the Church: there is no mencion at all made by the Apostle.

I knowe héere what Caluine sayth, I comprehend generallie all those (sayth he) that were set ouer the Church to gouerne it. For not onlie the Pastors were called Elders, but those that were chosen out of the cōmon people, as it were censors or controllers, to defend the discipline. For e∣uerie Church had as it were her Senate, chosen out of graue men, and of approued integritie. But because the manner was to choose chiefly them that were indued with more excellent gifts, therefore hee biddeth them call for the Elders, as in whom most of all, the force and grace of the holy Ghost shewed forth it selfe.

This is Caluines opinion for these Elders. Howbeit this is but his iudgement, and still consisteth all on this méere presupposalll, that euerie Church had a Senate of such Elders. But wée néede no further confuta∣tion of that presupposall, than Danaeus owne testimonie, that citeth this place of Iames for these Elders. For (as we haue heard) Danaeus, on the o∣ther side of the leafe sayde before: The second kinde of Elders was wont to bee ordained in euerie greater Citie onelie, in the which there was an ample and populous Church, and a gr••at number of the faythful. Which if it were true but euen so farre foorth, then is Caluines saying not true, that eu••rie Church had as it were her Senate of these Elders. Albeit,

they both agrée heerein, that Saint Iames meant such kinde of gouerning Elders as were not teachers. But howe can we make that good in Danae∣us, if euerie Church had not such Elders. And yet in euerie Church some sickned: but these Elders, by Danaeus testimonie were in fewe Churches: for there were but fewe such greater Cities and ample populous Chur∣ches, wherein great multitudes of the faithfull were: and therefore by Da∣naeus owne witnesse against himselfe, this rule of Saint Iames stretcheth not vnto these Elders, except in such few places, where hee supposeth they were: though he haue not, nor can proue it. But rules (especiallie those that be generall touching all men) are not made for few places.

And therefore this rule of Saint Iames was not for anie such Elders. So that, much better than both these (in my simple opinion) is Aretius his iudgement vpon this place. Is there anie sicke among you? let him call for the Elders of the Church. The third place (sayth hee) is of the care of those that are sicke in the assemblie (or companie) of the faithful. But hee teacheth, that the manner of healing and comforting the sicke, ought to be made for the health of the sicke, with the fruite also of them that stande about him. Concerning the sicke partie, hee ought to call for the Elders of the Church, that is, of his companie or assemblie: at this daie wee shoulde cal it▪ Viciniae Seniores aliqu••s, some Seniories (or Elders) of the neighbour∣hoode (or of the streete or village neere adioyning) with some Minister of the Church, among whome some Phisition may haue a roome. For neither do I here take the Seniors or Elders to be those anoynted onelie and shauen, which are sacrificers and Monkes, neither also an Ecclesiasti∣call Senate, quem 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 quadam, whome of a certaine ill zeale, some goe about to represent. But I take the Seniors of the church to bee graue and godlie men in the whole assemblie. Whose godlinesse I knowe (or like of) whether they be laie men, or they bee in the Ministerie, or also they bee Phisitions, yea, or else otherwise. To conclude, I call the godlie and sound hearted the auncient men. For in these is greater experi∣ence of thinges, greater force of comforting, greater affection also, of hauing compassion, and more sounde counsailes than in young men.

Thus plainlie and simplie, sayth Aretius of these Elders, that S. Iames woulde haue the sicke partie, to send for his elderlie neighbours & friends, men of grauitie and experience, that can giue the sicke good counsaile. As for gouernours of discipline, or controllers of manners, or an Ecclesiasti∣call Senate to be sent for, and to come to euerie mans house when he lieth sicke and in daunger of death: what vse is there of them? Whereas of his acquaintance and good neighbours there may bee great vse, especiallie of the Pastorall Elders.

And therefore Hemingius sayth well, Accerset Praesbyteros tanquam ani∣mae medicos, Let him send for the Elders, as for the Phisitions of the soule, to giue him some spiritual consolation out of the word of God, of the which then hee shal haue most néede, and to strengthen and confirme his faith and hope in Christ, to moue him to repentance, to patience, and to cal vpon God for the forgiuenesse of sinnes in his life passed, to persuade him to a ready∣nesse to forsake the world and this transitorie life, and to desire (according to Gods will) to be dissolued, and to be with Christ, & to cal vpon him while his strength and vnderstanding, and memorie serueth him) to dispose of his worldlie goods, and make his wil, and with the assemblie to make the pub∣like praiers to God for him: who fitter to doe all these things, than the El∣ders that are Ministers of the word?

Besides, that Caluine maketh this anointing of him with oyle, in the name of the Lord, to haue béene a temporarie Sacrament, saying: Verilie I graunt, that it was vsed for a Sacrament of the Disciples of Christe (for I assent not vnto them, that thinke it was a medicine) but euen as the veritie of this signe indured not but for a time, I saie, the signe was like∣wise temporarie. If then this were a Sacrament seruing for that time: it séemeth so much the more, that those Elders then were teachers, since the action of making the praiers ouer him, and of the anointing of him with oyle is attributed to those Elders. For, the publike or solemne praiers, e∣specially the ministration of the Sacraments in the Church of Christ, doth principallie, and (as our Brethren themselues saie) dooth onelie belong to him, that is a teacher and Minister of the worde. And that it can bee no better than sacrilege, to separate the ministration of preaching of the word, frō the Sacraments &c. and that a word or writing may be auaile∣able without a seale, but neuer, a seale without a writing, page. 61. And that, where is no Preacher of the word, there ought to be no Minister of the Sacraments. Furthermore, it appertaineth to the dutie to make prai∣ers, &c. page. 6••.

Sith therefore these things are here ascribed to the doings of these Elders of the Church, that the sicke partie is willed to send for: is it not yet more likelie than anie of al these opinions, that by these Elders are meant pasto∣ral Elders? Otherwise, how would not our Br. owne wordes in this lear∣ned Discourse, beate downe Danaeus, saying? Therfore in this behalfe, we haue had a great default so long time, to cōmit the administration of the Sacraments to those men, who not onelie haue bene knowen to be vna∣ble, but also haue ben forbidden to preach the word. page. 61. And what other were these Elders (by their discription of them) but such as medled not with preaching the word, nor it pertained at all vnto their office, but onely gouernment of discipline, & controlment of maners? And yet sée now when they can finde them no where, rather than they should not bee found,

they will call them to the making of the praiers ouer the sicke, and to the ministration of that temporarie Sacrament. Yea, our Bre. these Learned Discoursers their selues in plaine wordes, page. 22. ascribe this saying of Iames, to the action and office of the Pastors. Since therfore, what kind of Elders these were (mencioned Iam. 5.14.) the text expreslie (other than by these coniectures) nameth not: nor it is agréed vppon among these learned men: What firme argumēt can be gathered hereon, for the proofe of these gouerning & not teaching elders? If not rather (as we haue séen) far more probabilitie euerie way to the clean contrarie, y^t they wer teaching Elders. And now, séeing y^t, as neither before in the authoritie, proofe, or place in anie of the acts or exāples of the Apostles▪ we find anie euident exāple, or plaine precept, or institutiō in the church of Christ, set forth in y^e holy Scriptures, of these Ecclesiasticall Elders, gouerning the discipline, & controlling the manners of the Church, but not medling with teaching nor preaching of the word and doctrine, nor ministering of the Sacraments. Let vs now returne from them to our Br. learned discourse, if they perhaps haue yet anie better proofe after al these, for the authorizing and setting vp amongst vs, y^e Cōsistories & Segnories of these gouerning & not teaching Elders.

We haue heard how our Br. haue alleaged the 14. of the Acts. ver. 23. vpon the which we haue séene Caluines iudgement to the contrarie, that the Elders there mencioned were only pastoral Elders. We haue heard al∣so their allegation, 1. Tim. 5.17. and of the three ••••ings, that (they saie) wee may learne thereon, & that the same testimonie inferreth none of all those three things And hereupon, because Caluine on the same testimonie citeth Ambrose (which is cited also of Beza) I haue both examined the place in Ambrose, and the other allegations of Beza out of Cyprian, and a number of other Fathers and histories for the search of these Elders. Which not yet finding, I haue returned to the Scripture, to search what places anie other of our Bre namelie Beza, Caluine, and Danaeus (which chieflie write vpon this matter) haue alleaged. And not yet finding anie sufficient proofe of thē, till some other of our Brethren shall bring better proofe, or proue these pla∣ces better, I am now come againe where we began, to the 14. of the Acts, verse. 23. because our Bre. here will further yet againe reuiew the same.

And especiallie in the place before alleaged for election, there is great reason to leade vs to thinke, that the Elders for gouernment, are as well vnderstood, as the other for doctrine, because it is written in the same place, That after they had ordained them Elders in euerie congregation by electi∣on: as hauing set the Churches in perfect order▪ (which coulde not bee, except they had established discipline so well as doctrine) they committed them to the Lord, in whom they beleeued.

This great reason is nothing but our Brethrens ouer great presuppo∣sall, that except there were such Elders ordained, there were no perfecte

order set, nor discipline established in the churches. Which great reason lieth all on the great and common fallation, Pe••itio principij, reasoning on that, as on a great and graunted principle, which is a greate and principall question. They might wel haue set the churches in perfect order, & haue established discipline in them, without ordaining anie Consistorie or Seg∣norie, of such Elders or gouernours as meddle not with teaching. For what would it haue hurt the perfection of order, & establishment of dis∣cipline in the churches, if all the Elders that they ordained, had bene teach∣ers to (as Caluine sayth they were)? Albeit Saint Luke in that place men∣cioneth not of anie perfection of orders, or of discipline established at all. But onelie sayth the text in this 23. verse here mencioned: And ordaining with the handes, Elders vnto them (Church) by Church, making praiers with fast∣ings, they commended them vnto the Lord, on whome they beleeued. Did Saint Paule in all the Churches where hee went preaching (yea, though some of them were famous Churches, and in some of them he laie long, as at Co∣rinth) set the churches in perfect order, and established discipline in them as well as doctrine? How then doth he write unto the Corinthians of so many things, that (as it plainlie appeareth by his reprouing, teaching and ordering of them) wer not before set in such order, nor established? No nor yet all things (as concerning the perfection of order, and establishment of discipline) were contained in his Epistles afterwards written vnto them, but y^t he saith: he would ••et an order of other things at his comming to them. 1. Cor. 11.34. which we expound not (with the aduersaries of the Gospel) for matter of doctrine, but for order and discipline And therefore it is not so great a reason, as shoulde leade our Brethren to thinke that Paule and Barnabas tarrying so small a while in euerie place, that then they went vnto, did set such perfect orders and establish discipline in those meaner churches. But since our Br. here doe vrge this place no further, than that there is great reason to leade vs so to thinke: and we sée also some reason, to leade vs to thinke the contrarie: whether theers or ours bee greater, yea, whether theirs bee anie great or small, and whether Caluine himselfe be not of force to ouer-rule this so slender a reason of theirs, saying, Not of some among them, but of all of them. I interprete Elders in this place, to bee those, to whome the office of teaching was inioyned: Which interpre∣tation if it be true, then whether by anie reason they could be such Elders, as were gouernours onelie, and not teachers. I referre to the readers, yea, to our Brethrens owne) indifferent iudgement, and proceede to their se∣cond point of moderating these Elders.

The second point for moderation of the Elders authoritie, in such sort that their sentence may be the sentence of the Church, is this: that whē the Consistorie hath trauailed in examining of causes pertayning to Ec∣clesiasticall discipline, and agreed what iudgement ought to passe vppon

the matters, they propounde it to the whole multitude, that it maye bee confirmed by their consent.

This second point draweth somewhat neerer to a moderation of the Elders authoritie, than the former did. But how agreeth this with the for∣mer moderation of them? For before, although they should be elected and chosen by the consent of the whole congregation: yet the whole church was to repose such confidence in them, that they cōmit vnto them their authoritie, not onely in hearing and examining, but also in determining of all matters, pertaining to discipline and gouernment in that congre∣gation. If therefore these Elders shall haue authoritie to doe all this, how is it here sayd, that when the consistorie hath trauailed in examining of causes, pertaining to Ecclesiasticall discipline, and agreed what iudge∣ment ought to passe vpon the matters: they propounde it to the whole multitude, that it may be confirmed by their cōsent If the whole mul∣titude haue before hand committed vnto them their authoritie, to de∣termine all matters: why shoulde they bee brought to the whole multi∣tude backe againe, to haue that confirmed, that before was determined, and that by their owne authoritie was committed vnto these Elders to determine? And what authoritie haue they reserued and lefte vnto them∣selues herein, to confirme by their consent, after these committies haue determined the matter? For what if the whole multitude shall dissent? Haue they all, or some, or the greater part of them, a negatiue voice, to dash all that these Elders haue before determined? And how is not this then a plaine Popular state, when in all matters, none excepted, not onely pertai∣ning to discipline, but also to gouernment, the chiefe & last authoritie con∣sisteth in y^e cōfirmatiō, no not yet of y^e prince, but of the whole multitude.

We feared before 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, the dominion of a few persons in this Seni∣orie. And therefore our Brethren to moderate & reduce them ad 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, to the gouernment of the best men, which our brethren call men of god∣linesse and wisedome: they haue now so moderated the matter, that they haue brought all ad 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, to the popular regiment not onelie of the common people, but of the whole multitude. And all vnder pretence, that the Bishops before did some things more than they should, separated from other by themselues, in the Ecclesiastical discipline. And now they haue so excluded this separate gouernment of the Bishops, that withall, they haue cleane cut off the Monarchie and supreme gouernment of the Prince and all, yea, of these Seniors determination and all, and giuen all matters per∣taining to the discipline and gouernment of euerie particular congrega∣tion, to the assemblie of the common people, yea, to the finall consent and confirmation of the whole multitude of the congregation.

It is much, to debase the authoritie and gouernment of these matters to the popular state. But I feare verie much a worse e∣state,

and more horriblie confused. For why may we not here again feare as horrible confusion in the whole multitudes dissent or con∣firmation of that which these Seniors haue determined: as our Brethren before feared it, in hearing and determining such matters? But to put vs out of this feare, and to confirme this confirmation of the whole multi∣tude, that the people can confirme this themselues without anie horrible confusion: our brethren alleage vs an example.

Whereof Saint Paule speaketh, touching the execution of excommu∣nication (because the fact was manifest) VVhen you are gathered together with my spirite in the name of our Lord Iesus Christ, and with the power of our Lord Iesus Christ, to deliuer such a one vnto Sathan.

Although this example is but of one matter, wheras the question is of al matters (for so sayd our Brethren before, that there ought to be in euerie Church a Consistorie or Segnorie of Elders or gouernours, which ought to haue the hearing, examination, and determining of al matters, pertai∣ning to discipline and gouernment of that congregation) and so this ex∣ample touching the execution of excommunication reacheth not home: yet is this example so little to the present purpose, that it is rather cleane contrarie. Which example if it should directlie pro••e, that which our Br. affirmed (for so their wordes would séeme to inferre, saying: Whereof S. Paule speaketh touching the execution of excommunication) they should proue this: that when the Consistory hath trauailed in examining of cau∣ses pertaining to Ecclesiastical discipline, & agreed what iudgemēt ought to passe vpon the matters: they propound it to the whole multitude, that it may be confirmed by their consent. So that this example of some mat∣ter at the least, heard, examined, and determined by the Consistory, & by them propounded to the whole multitude, to be confirmed by their con∣sent, might drawe neerer to their purpose. But can they shew vs anie such example, whereof Saint Paul speaketh? As for this touching the execu∣tion of excommunication: Who did execute the same, and excommuni∣cate this incestuous person? Did not S. Paule himselfe, by the power of our Lord Iesus Christ giuen vnto him? What▪ doe they make Saint Paule an Elder not teaching? And did he it not first alone? At leastwise, without anie Consistorie of the church of Corinth ioyned with him? As he himselfe saith, ver. 3. For I verilie, being absent in bodie, but present in spirit, haue alreadie iudged as present, him that hath so done this thing. In which words he plainly declareth that he had passed the sentence of excōmunication vpon him, be∣fore he wrote to thē therof. Neither doth it appeare that anie of their Cō∣sistorie ioyned with him, in pronouncing that his iudgement on him. Yea, he saith, that although he was in bodie absent from them, yet because hee was in spirit as present with them, his iudgement should stand as effectu∣al, as though he had ben bodily present, at the denouncing of his sentence.

And who were these that he writeth thus vnto, what he had done? Was it to a Consistorie among the Corinthians, to make relation vnto them of his doing, and then they to take vpon them the hearing, examining & de∣termining of the matter, and then to propoūd it to the whole multitude? This had bene yet somewhat néerer to our Brethrens moderation. But here is no such order. Paule first doth the déede, and that imediatlie, both in his absence, and vnwitting to them of his proceeding. Which done, he wri∣teth not thereof to anie Consistorie or Segnorie of Elders or Gouernours ouer them, nor in anie place of either of his Epistles to them, he maketh a∣nie mencion or inkling of anie such among them, nor yet Saint Luke, that mencioneth (Act. 18. verse. 11.) how he tarried a yéere and a halfe, teaching the word of God (and planting a Church) among them. But he writeth of this matter (as of the residue) to them to whom he writeth the whole Epi∣stle indefinitlie, to the Church of God beeing at Corinthus, sanctified in Christ Iesu, called Saintes, with all that cal vpon the name of our Lord Ie∣su Christ, in all places, both their Lord and ours. 1. Cor. 1.2. So that, hee writeth to the wholde multitude. But did he write vnto them thereof, to haue his dooing so confirmed by their consent, that if they woulde not haue consented to this his manner of excommunicating the person before hand by himselfe alone, but that he shoulde first haue made them priuie thereto, or euer he proceeded so farre, that then vppon this their dissenting, though not for the person & matter, yet for the manner of his proceeding, his iudge∣ment should haue ben frustrate & reuersed? No, but his signification there∣of vnto them, was rather to commaund thē to obey his sentence, and to put the same in execution, as our Brethren saie well herein, touching the ex∣ecution of excommunication, for when they were gathered together, as Saint Paule had, and that some Pastor or Minister among them, did before the whole multitude pronounce this sentence, which Saint Paule had giuen forth against the incestuous person: they al approued it, & so confirmed S. Paules former sentence of excommunication.

But our Breth. adde this parenthesis (because the fact was manifest) wherefore they adde this, they doe not shew. But the more manifest the fact was, the lesse neede had the Apostle to haue proceeded so far, if in a ma∣nifest fact, an Ecclesiasticall iudge may not procee••e separatlie his selfe to the sentence of excōmunication, without the consent of a Segnory of that Congregation. But although the fact heere was manifest, yet the wickednesse of the fact was not manifest inough vnto them. At least∣wise, not this manner of the punishment for it, vntill Saint Paule did thus reproue them of it, and thus proceede against it. But had it ben neuer so manifest, what doth that giue him authoritie to deale so farre therin separatly by himselfe, without and before anie authoritie of theirs ioyned with him, but onely to make them afterward to put that in executi∣on,

that he had before ouerruled, & iudicially concluded vpō. Since therfore this was a good excommunication, & that all they coulde not reverse this sentence, as otherwise passed than it ought to haue bene, because they ioy∣ned not in the doing of it, but onelie in the obedience of putting the same in execution, as he commanded them: and withall, since this was not writ∣ten as an information to any Senate, Consistorie, or Segnorie of Seniors, or of gouerning Elders among them, but written as a charge to the whole multitude: What is this for the proofe of anie such Elders? Either else to inferre that no excommunication in a manifest or not manifest fact, can be pronounced by a Bishop, or by a Pastor, except a Consistorie of that Congregation, shall first trauaile in examining the cause, and then deter∣mine and agree, what iudgement ought to passe vpon the matter: & then also propound it before the whole multitude, that it may bee confirmed by their consent: and last of all, the Bishop, Pastor, or Minister to denoūc•• it. For this is the discipline that our Brethren would drawe out hereon.

But who may not see, that this is to drawe this example cleane contra∣rie? If they would directly gather aught herevpon, they should gather, that in manifest facts and crimes the Bishop or Pastor, though in his absence, may iudge, determine, & pronounce the sentence of excommunication, and by the authoritie of our Lord Iesus Christ committed vnto him, may command the whole multitude, Church, or Congregation, or anie Con∣sistorie of them, if they haue anie, to gather the••selues together with his spirit, and charge them in the name of our Lorde Iesus Christ, that they fulfill, obey, and execute his sentence, in deliuering such an excommuni∣cated person ••0 Sathan, that is, exclude him from the fellowship and com∣munion of the faithfull, by separating themselues from his company, & him from theirs: but this would cleane dash all the imagined authoritie of their gouerning Segnorie, if they should become such executioners onelie vnto the sentence of the Bishop or Pastor, and that in his absence also, he being the iudge and determiner of the matter.

But what is this anie more than al the residue, for the proofe of any such Ecclesiastical Elders in the Church of Corinth, as were Gouernours onely, and not Teachers? Of the which point (so much vr∣ged and sought for) we haue hetherto séene, not one testimonie nor example. But our Br. will now, and God before, go to higher & more important proues heereof.

Notes

• Diffused authoritie.
• The lear¦ned Dis. Pag. 83.
• Bridges.
• Our Brethr. beginning to examine their former positions.
• Diffused au¦thoritie.
• The lear¦ned disc. Pag. 83.
• Bridges.
• The lear¦ned disc. pag. 83.
• Bridges
• Confusion in the mul∣t••tudes iudg¦ment.
• How o••r Brethren mocke the multitude.
• What offi∣ces are ap∣pointed in Gods word for gouern∣ment.
• The multi∣tudes con∣fusion.
• O••r Brethr. too bolde presuppo∣sals.
• The lear¦ned disc. Pag. 84.
• Bridges.
• Seueral offi∣ces, and yet not▪ seuerall officers.
• Rom. 12.
• Diuers gifts and offices in one offi∣cer.
• The Gouer¦nours.
• This place also 1. Cor. 12. sheweth not whether one might not haue ••o thā one of these giftes.
• The Apostle includeth the gouer∣nors in the other of∣ficers.
• The lear¦ned disc. Pag. 84.
• Bridges.
• Our Brethr. bolde con∣clusion for their Segno∣rie, vpon the Apostles on¦ly naming of Gouer∣nors.
• The ouer∣throw of all Princes go∣uernement.
• Both Bish. and Pastors gouernmēt excluded.
• Modera∣ting the gouernors.
• How violent the begin∣ning is of this Segno∣rie.
• The lear¦ned disc pag. 84
• Bridges.
• The lear¦ned disc. Pag. 84.
• Bridges.
• Our Brethr. manner of moderating th••ir Segn. auth.
• Electing the gouer∣nors.
• How the whole con∣gregation shall choose the Elders.
• The wisdom and godli∣nesse of the greater part.
• The horri∣ble confusi∣on of the whole con∣gregation•• dealing here in.
• Gouernors.
• The lear¦ned disc. pag. 85. & 86.
• Act. 4 23.
• 1. Tim. 5.17.
• Act. 14.23.
• Bridges
• Our Brethr. to prooue what ought to be, tell vs what may be.
• Our Brethr. argument for their go¦uernors.
• The Elders Act. 14.
• Our Brethr. own prowes that that place Act. 14. is vnder∣stoode of gouernors that are Pa∣stors.
• What go∣uernors those Elders were that medled no∣thing with the word.
• Acts. 14.
• Whō Calu. vnderstands for Elders. Act. 14.
• The Ciuil officers had not impo∣sition of the Mini∣sters hands.
• The Elders 1. Tim. 5.17.
• 1. Tim. 5.17.
• Where the name of el∣dersis com∣mon to pa∣stors and gouernors both at once.
• The name of Elders taken ge∣nerally for gouernors.
• The lear¦ned disc pag. 85
• Elders Ma¦gistrates.
• Bridges.
• We are not bound to learne our Brethr. col∣lections.
• The first thing that our Brethr. say we learn hereon.
• The Magi∣strates are the gouer∣ning & not teachinh El∣ders in the Church.
• Perpetui∣tie of those Elders.
• We learne in the scrip∣ture that there were Apostles, &c but not that there be.
• Difference betweene there be, & there ought to be.
• Presupposing there were then 2. such kindes of Elders, yet though the one were perpetuall, it followeth not that the other was so
• Collection on 1. Tim. 5.17.
• Our Brethr. owne expo∣sition on their owne wordes.
• Whether these Elders were con∣trollers of maners only
• Why Caluin gathereth this colle∣ction.
• 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, 1. Tim. 5.17.
• The exam∣ple in the A¦postles thē∣selues.
• The exam∣ple in the Deacons.
• The labou∣ring in the worde.
• Vnpreach∣ing Pre∣lates go∣uernment.
• The seconde thing that our Brethr. say we learn on this testi¦monie.
• 1. Tim. 5.17.
• Our Brethr. call these El¦ders not tea∣ching Bi∣shops, and so make thē vnpreaching Prelates.
• Two sortes of Elders.
• The pastors authority cleane set out of ioint by the ioint authority of these newe gouernors.
• The third thing to bee learned What the n••me of el∣der compre∣hendeth.
• Chrysost. in 1. Tim. 5.
• The confe∣rence of this testimo¦ny with that that goeth before and after.
• The exami∣nation of the aunciēt interpreters of this testi∣mony.
• Chrysost. in 1. Tim. 5. Homil. 15.
• Theodoret in 1. tim. 5.
• Theodoret mentioneth no such el∣der inter∣preting this place.
• Theodoret mentioneth no such el∣der inter∣preting this place.
• The com∣mentary on Tim. added to Ierome.
• Ambrose in 1. tim. 5
• Caluins al∣legation of Ambr. for the gouer∣ning & not teaching Elders.
• Ambr. in∣terpretatiō of this place 1. Tim. 5.17.
• Ambrose in 1. Tim. 5.1.
• S. Ambrose doubtfull speech of other go∣uerning El∣ders besides the doctors.
• Cyprian.
• Bezaes te∣stimonies for these Elders.
• Ambr. in 1. Tim. 5. Lib. Epis. 2. Epis. 5. & lib. 3. epist. 10.14.15. & aliis deinceps.
• Whether Cyprian mention a∣ny such El∣ders.
• This go∣uernment of the B. was perma∣nent in him
• 〈…〉〈…〉.
• Bezaes con¦fession that these Elders gouerning with the B. were in the time of per¦secution.
• How Bezaes words con∣firme Gual∣ters.
• Cyprian•• Elders.
• Cypr. lib. ••. epist. 5.
• How farre Cyprian dealt with the Elders in giuing Ecclesiasti∣call orders.
• Cyprians i••yning Elders with him in im∣position of hands argu∣eth they were elders of the word
• Cypr. lib. 3. epist. 10.
• Et hortor & mando.
• Vice mea fungamini.
• How Cy∣prian ioined in common coun••ell with the el∣der his au∣thority re∣serued.
• The Elders councell & the peoples con••ent.
• Noua••us.
• That these Elders to whō Cypr. wrote were ministers of the word
• One of Cy∣prians el∣ders was Nouatus a teacher of puritanisme
• Cypr. epist. li. 2. epist. ••.
• The descrip¦tion of No∣uat••s.
• Nouatus scisme and seuering the brethren from the B. and from the cleargy.
• Nouatus his making of a B. and of a Deacon.
• Nouatus vnnatural∣nesse to∣wardes his father, wife & childe.
• The Pres∣bytery.
• This pres∣bytery con∣sisted of such Elders as were Sa∣cerdotes, Ministers of the word & sacraments.
• The college of the El∣ders a corps of Preestes and pastoral Elders.
• Cypr. Epist. li. 3. epi. 14.
• The Elders claime of gouernmēt.
• The Elders claiming all the Chur∣ches eccl. gouernmēt to thēselues is the contu¦mely and pe¦rill of the people.
• Luke. 22.
• Mark 3.
• 1. Cor. 10.
• The Elders presuming to restore the penitēts without the Bishop.
• The Eccl. gou. tea∣chers.
• The Bishops authoritie ouer these gouernours teachers.
• The gouer∣nours mini∣sters of the Sacrament.
• The Elders and Dea∣cons tea∣chers.
• Cypr. Epist. lib. 3. Epist. 15.
• Both the El¦ders and Deacons were tea∣chers.
• The Elders were the mi¦nisters of the Sacra∣ment.
• The gouer∣nors, Tea∣chers, and Pastors.
• Bezaes mi∣staking.
• How great∣ly Beza and our Brethr. are decea∣ued in the college of Elders go∣uernors that Cyptian mentioneth
• Epist. lib. 3. Epist. 16.
• ••pist. 17.
• Their fee∣ding and comforting of the other repenta••tes.
• Epist. 18.
• Cypraians Colleagues.
• Apoc. 2.
• Epist. 19.
• Whom Cy∣prian here meaneth by his collea∣gues.
• Epist. 22.
• The Bishop with the Priestes, or Elders. Do∣ctors & rea∣ders consti∣tuteth a do∣ctor of the hearers.
• Cyprians Clarkes.
• The Elders aboue the Doctors.
• Epist. 24.
• Epist. lib. 4 Epist. 4.
• Epist.
• An Elder chosen to be an Elder at Carthage.
• Cypr. El∣ders.
• The E••der were maried
• The Elders that sate in the Consisto¦rie of Car∣thage, were Sacerdotes.
• Consessus.
• Gell. Sne••a∣nus de discip. Eccl. 2. pa••s me••hodi.
• Tertulli••n
• Tertulllanus▪ in Apol••on••r. g••nt. cap. 39.
• Clemens Alexādr.
• Tertu••••de ••••∣rona 〈◊〉〈◊〉.
• Clemens A∣lexand. le 6. Seromat.
• Irenaeus.
• Irenaeus con∣••ra haer. li. 1. ca. 12. Lib. 2. ca. 39
• Li. 3. cap. 2.
• Li. 4. cap▪ 43
• Iustinus.
• Iustin••s m••••¦tyr in Apo∣log. Christ. ad Antoniū.
• Ignatius ex∣••mpl•• ad T••allian••••.
• Polycarpus
• Polycarpus.
• Socrates lib. 7. cap. 37.
• The Eccl. histories for th••se Elders
• Eccl. hist. So∣crati. li. 1. cap. 3.
• Danaeus al legation of Socrates.
• Ruffinus lib. 10. Ec••l. hist. cap. 1.
• Theod••r••••us Eccl. hist. lib. 1. cap. 2.
• Z••zomen•••• lib. 1. cap. 14.
• The Elders in the Eccl historie.
• Socrate•• lib. ••. cap. 18
• Socrates. li. 5 cap. 19.
• 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉.
• 〈…〉〈…〉
• The Elders were expoū¦ders of the Scriptures,
• 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉.
• 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉.
• Vpon what occasion the Ministers at Alexandria ceased to preach.
• Socrates lib. 7. cap. 2.
• Socrates lib. 7. cap. 16.
• 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉
• Augustis.
• Danaeus his allegation of Aug. for these Elders
• August. de verbis Domi∣ni in Matth. Serm. 19.
• Aug. li. 1. Quaest. super Gē. quaest. 70 Aug. li. 6. lo∣cutionū Iosue
• Aug. de mori. Eccl. Cath. li. cap. 32
• Eld••ugustine the 〈…〉〈…〉
• August. quaest ex viroque mixtim, Quest. 101.
• Aug. in quin quaginta ho∣milijs, hom. 5 at 7.
• Basil for the Elders,
• Basilius in 33 vel. 34. Psal. ver. 15.
• Ba••il nor ob¦scurely by the eies mea¦neth the Bi∣shops.
• Basil
• Basil ascri∣beth teching of the doc∣trine, to thē that haue the gouernment of the Eccl. discipline.
• Basilius de in s••itutiō. Mo∣nachorū. c. 16
• Cap. 17.
• The Ecclesi¦asticall go∣uernors du∣ty of publik reprehensiō.
• Monodia Gre¦gorij Nazian¦zen, de vita Basilij.
• The disor∣dred making B. and Elders
• How Basil ascended to be an Elder or Priest by degrees.
• Basils exer∣cise vnder his Bishop while he was Elder.
• Basils autho¦ritie vnder the Bishop.
• The bishops defect ha∣uing beene before but a lay man.
• Basils go∣uernment.
• In the Con∣sistorie and order of the Elders one was called the first El∣der.
• Socra••es lib. 4 c••p. 13.
• Danaeus al∣leagation of Dionisius for these El∣ders.
• Dionisius auncient but not the Are∣opag••te.
• Dionisius.
• The Elders that Dioni∣sius speaketh of were tea∣chers.
• Dionis. Epist. 8.
• The name of Elder not for office, but age.
• The 3. de∣grees of ec∣cles. orders that Dioni∣sius acknow∣ledgeth.
• The office of the pur∣gers in Dio∣nisius.
• Danaeus in Christ. Isag. 2. part. ca. 7.
• Hierome.
• Ieronimus in epistola ad Rusti∣cum gal∣lum.
• Erasmus bseruatiōs of Ieromes example for the diffe∣rēce of the Monkes in Ieroms time, and the popish Monkes in these dayes.
• The B. sepa∣rate choo∣sing of Clearke••.
• The clearks were teach∣ers.
• The Cen∣sors or Con¦••rollers of∣fice.
• Hier. words rather alow a senate of teaching than not teaching Elders.
• The elders that our Br. would erect woulde bee such as Ie∣rom repre∣hendeth.
• The descrip∣tion of suche Controllers not ••eachers
• Lucretius.
• What Elders Hierom. al∣loweth of.
• Danae••s in 1. Tim. 5.19
• The superi∣or gouern∣mēt of one in euery company.
• The orders and gouern¦ments of that Ierome cōme••deth.
• Hier. in epis. ad Euagr.
• Danaeus al∣legation of the Canon Law for this Senate of Elders. Ca∣non. Eccl. 16 quest 1.
• The Canan Lawe.
• Canon Absque Sy∣nodali causa 15. quest. 7.
• Le ui aura.
• These elder•• were mini∣sters of the sacrame••ts.
• The B. & his Clearks
• Who these Elders and▪ Clarks were that these Canōs haue relation vnto.
• The diffe∣rence of the Cleark & of the Monke.
• The Monks payde tithes & offerings to the elders The Elders might excō¦municate the Monke••
• The cause of our Bret. & these re∣uerend mēs mistaking the••e alle∣gations of these Elder••
• Mistaking the fathers
• Danaeus in 2. parte Christ. Isag. Cap. 7.
• Caluines allegation of the same in Instit. cap 8. sect. 42
• The Scrip∣ture of the Elders.
• Whō Cal. thin••eth ••o be the go∣uernors. Bom 12 & 1. Cor. 12.
• Rom. 12. For gouer∣nors.
• Caluines in∣terpretation not necessa∣ry.
• Euery Church had not a Sanate
• Gouernors.
• This consis∣tory of these elders not necessa∣ry.
• Rom. 12.
• Of the per∣petuity and necessity of Deacons.
• Danaeus in Christ. Isag. 2. para. ca. 10.
• The Elders mentioned Act. 20. & 1. Pet 5. were Pasto∣rall Elders by our Bre∣threns owne confession.
• Danaeus cō∣tradiction to our Br. for the El∣ders in these places.
• Caluinu•• in Instit. ca. 8. sect. 4.
• The Elders Act. 20. & P. 5
• Caluine cō∣trary to Da∣naeus for the Elders. Act. 20.
• Calv. in Inst. ca. 8. sect. 42.
• Calvine cō∣fesseth that the place Act. 20. is only of mi∣nisters of the word. Caluinus in Act. 20. ver. 17.
• The Elders Gouernors
• Ver. 18. These El∣ders that were go∣uernors and and correc∣tors of mā∣ners were also teach∣ers.
• Those whō Danaeus cal∣leth gouer∣ning & not teaching El¦ders Caluin calleth Pa∣stors, Bi∣shops & fee¦ders with the word.
• Elders. 1. Pet. 5.
• Our Breth. sestimonie against Da∣naeus for the Elders 1. Pet. 5.
• Caluinus in Instit. ca. 13. sect. 7.
• For the El∣ders 1. Pe. 5.
• Euē the ge∣nerall name of ecl. El∣ders for go∣uernors ex∣emplified by teachers.
• The office of their El∣dership con∣sisting in feeding.
• The wordes of Peter spo¦ken to fee∣ders, haled to such as are not fee∣ders.
• The seueral parishes of the Elders.
• As Daneus reporteth Sozome∣nus, there was but one Elder in euery pa∣rish.
• Eccl. hist. Hermiae So∣zomeni li. 1. cap. 2.
• Sozome∣nus for these El∣ders.
• 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉.
• 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉.
• Danaeus miscollecti∣on of Sozo∣menus wordes.
• Sozome∣nus mista∣ken,
• The lack of through ser∣ching, the cause of our Br. mista∣king.
• Act. 17.11.
• The Elders that Sozo∣menus mē∣tioneth wer teaching el∣ders.
• Danaeus te∣stimony for for these el∣ders. Act. 21.18.
• Act. 21.18.
• The proba∣bilities that the Elders mentioned Act. 21.18. were tea∣chers.
• These El∣ders were exhorters of Paul.
• They were such as frō whō know∣ledge shuld begin.
• They were such as wer not of the people, but distinct frō them.
• Act. 21. & 15.
• These elders Act. 21. are here plainly called Doc∣tors.
• Danaeus testimonie for those El∣ders.
• Phil. 4. v. 8.
• Phil. 4.8.
• Caluinus in institus. cap. 8. sec. 42.
• Phil. 4.8.
• 2. Tim. 3.
• Danaeus o∣ther allega∣tions for El∣ders all which also are cleane a∣gainst him.
• Act. 20.
• Aug. in hom. 50. hom. 5. & 7.
• Esa. 58.
• Difference of the false teacher and true teacher
• Danaeus te∣stimonie 1. Pet. 3. ma∣keth no∣thing for Eccl. Elders that are not teachers.
• Danaeus te∣stimonies 1. Cor. 14.34. & 35. are likewise no∣thing for Eccl. Elders not teachers
• Iames. 5.14. for these Elders.
• Danaeu•• te∣stimony for the••e Elders out of Ia. 5. and 14.
• Caluines o∣pinion for these Elders D••naeus cō∣trarie to Caluine.
• Iames. 5.
• Aretius iudgement of what El∣ders Iames speaketh.
• The Elders that Iames speaketh to be of no one certaine office either Ecclesiasti∣call or laie persons.
• Caluines owne testi∣monie, that these Elders were Mini∣sters of a tē∣porarie Sa∣crament & so teachers.
• Our Bre. discoursers confute Da∣naeus.
• Act. 14.23.
• Our brethr. returne for proofe of these Elde••s to the ••or∣mer alleg••¦tion. Act. 14.23.
• The lear¦ned Dis. Pag. 85. & 86.
• Act. 14.23.
• Bridges.
• Modera∣ting these Elders.
• The text mēcioneth not that the Apostles set the Chur∣ches in per∣fect order & established discipline.
• The lear¦ned Dis. Pag. 86.
• The popu∣lar state.
• Bridges.
• The redu∣cing of al to the popular state.
• S. Paules excommu∣nication. 1 Cor. 5.
• The lear¦ned disc pag. 86
• 1. Cor. 5.4.
• Bridges.
• S. Paule by his separate authoritie gaue sētēce of excōmu∣nication be∣fore the Co¦rinthians knew of his doing.
• No such Cō∣sistorie a∣mong the Corinthians
• The mani∣festnesse of th•• fact.
• Excōmu∣nication. 1. Cor. 5.
• The order of discipline that our Br. prescribe, & therto wrest S. Pauls ex∣cōmunica∣tion.