afterward the Church proceede against him, they doe not iudge the Pope▪ for he had lost his papacie before.
We answer: First, if a manifest hereticke be actually deposed, it is by the se∣cret iudgement and sentence of God: for by no other authority can he be depo∣sed as they hold: but before God manifest heresie, and close and secret heresie is all one: therefore the Pope is also actually deposed for secret heresie, and not onely for manifest: and so some of the papists think, as Iohann. de Turre veniata. Secondly, what call you manifest heresie? or how is hee knowen to bee a ma∣nifest hereticke? Can hee bee an heretick before hee bee conuinced? shall iudgement passe against him vncondemned? A murtherer is a dead man by lawe, yet hee liueth till iudgement passe vpon him: so is the Pope beeing an heretick, yet Pope, till he be iudicially proceeded against; as a murtherer dead by right is in act yet liuing, till by law he is depriued of his life. An heretick, sayth Saint Paul, after two or three admonitions auoyd: that is, saith the Iesuite, he is now excommunicate before the sentence of the iudge. Be it so, but hee must first be admonished, and if he still continue obstinate, then he is a manifest heretike: so before the Pope can be knowen to be a manifest heretick, he must be found obstinate, he cannot be obstinate, vnlesse he refuse to be admonished, if he be admonished, then is he iudged. Thirdly, an heretick ceaseth not to bee a priest, (as they speake) no not after heresie is knowen, for manifest heretickes may baptize. The Donatists in Augustines time were manifest hereticks, and yet the Church did not baptize againe after them: If a manifest heretick cease not to be a priest, neither ceaseth he to be Pope; there is like reason of both: for if an heretick, because he is not a member of the Church, can not be a Pope, neither also can he retayne the priesthood.
Lastly, who seeth not what bare and friuolous shifts those are? one saith, the Church may iudge the Pope, not as he is Pope, but in respect of his person: an other sayth, that they may iudge the man which was Pope, but hee is then no Pope, because his heresie tooke from him the papacie. Why masters what iug∣ling is here? is the Pope one thing and the Popes person an other? By the same reason you may say, that the Pope neither eateth, nor drinketh, nor sleepeth, nor dieth, and so make a god of him, because it is the popes person that doth all this, and not the Pope.
And by this shift you make no difference betweene an heretick Bishop, o•• heretick priest, and heretick Pope: for by the same reason, none of them all shall be subiect to the iudgement of the Church: for we may say, that a manifest he∣retick, whether Bishop or priest, hath lost by that very act of falling into heresie, his priesthood and Bishoprick, and then is neither Bishop nor priest. And so you may conclude altogether: that neither Pope, Bishop nor piest can bee deposed from heresie.
The Protestants.
WE doubt not to say, that the Pope both lawfully hath been depriued som∣time by the Emperour, somtime by generall Councels, not onely for he∣sie,