Synopsis papismi, that is, A generall viewe of papistry wherein the whole mysterie of iniquitie, and summe of antichristian doctrine is set downe, which is maintained this day by the Synagogue of Rome, against the Church of Christ, together with an antithesis of the true Christian faith, and an antidotum or counterpoyson out of the Scriptures, against the whore of Babylons filthy cuppe of abominations: deuided into three bookes or centuries, that is, so many hundreds of popish heresies and errors. Collected by Andrew Willet Bachelor of Diuinity.
Willet, Andrew, 1562-1621.
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THE FIRST BOOKE OR CEN∣TVRIE CONTEINING THE CONTRO∣VERSIES OF RELIGION, WHICH ARISE IN QVE∣stion betweene the Church of God and the Papistes, about the word of God conteined in the Scriptures, and the Church Mili∣tant here vpon earth, with the partes and members thereof.

THE FIRST GENERALL CONTROVER∣sie of the holie Scriptures.

ACcording to the methode, which we wil (God assisting vs by his spirite) obserue throughout this whole Trea∣tise of the controuersies, in the first place we are to en∣treat of such matters, as cōcerne the Propheticall office of Christ. He is our Prophet, our heauenly teacher, and Doctor. Math. 23. vers. 8. from him proceedeth all holy knowledge: we haue not seen God, nor the high things of God: but the onely begotten sonne, which is in the bosome of the father, he hath declared him. Iohn. 1.18. Wherefore all the true sheepe of Christ, will heare his voyce. Iohn. 10.3. His voyce is not els where heard but onely in the Scriptures: We must heare Moses and the Prophetes. Luke. 16.29. First of all therefore this great and most famous controuersie be∣tweene vs and our aduersaries concerning the Scriptures must be handled: which is distributed into seuen seuerall questions.

1 Concerning the Canonicall Scripture, what bookes are to be receiued into the sacred Canon, what books to be reiected and counted apocryphall.

2 Concerning the authenticall Edition of the holy Scriptures, whether the Hebrue Greeke or Latine translation is cheifly to be folowed.

3 Whether the Scriptures ought to be translated into the vulgar and English toung: and whether publique prayers and diuine seruice ought to be vsed in the same toung.

4 Whether the scriptures are authorized by the Church, and not rather so knowne to be of them selues.

5 Concerning the perspicuitie and playnnes of the Scripture, whether Page  2 it be so hard, that the common people may not safely be admitted to the rea∣ding thereof.

6 Concerning the interpretation of Scripture: which question is deuided into three parts: first whether the Scripture admit diuerse senses and expositi∣ons: secondly who hath the cheife authoritie to expound Scripture: thirdly what meanes ought to be vsed in expounding of it

7 Concerning the perfection of the Scripture, three parts of the questiō. First, whether the Scriptures be necessarie: secondly whether they be suffi∣cient to saluation: thirdly whether there be any traditions beside necessarie to saluation.


Of the state of the first Question.

WE haue not any thing in this place to deale with those heretikes, which denie either the whole Scripture, or any part thereof: but one∣ly with our aduersaries the Papistes, that holding all those bookes to be Scrip∣ture, which we do acknowledge, doe adde vnto them other bookes which are not canonicall: so that they offend not as other heretikes, in denying any part of the Scripture, but, which is as bad in adding vnto it, for both these are accursed. Reuel. 22.18.

First of all breifly before we proceed, let vs see who they were that offend in the first kind. Some heretikes generally reiected the whole Scripture, some certaine partes thereof. The Sadducees receiued no Scripture, beside the fiue bookes of Moses, the Maniches condemned the whole old testament, and so did wicked Marcion.

The bookes of Moses the Ptolemaites refused, the booke of the Psalmes the Nicolaitanes, and the Anabaptistes in our dayes: there wanted not which condemned the booke of the Preacher and the Canticles as wanton and lasciuious bookes: and the Anabaptists are not here behind with their partes. The holy and excellent booke of Iob hath also found enimies, and some of the Rabbins which do thinke that the storie is but fained: which heresie is confuted Ezech 14.14. for there Noah, Iob, Daniel are named together: so that it is manifest, that such a man there was.

The new testament the Maniches most impiously affirmed to be full of lies. Cerdon the heretike condemned all but Lukes Gospel. The Valentinians could away with none but Iohns Gospell. The Alogians of all other hated Iohns writings. The Ebionites onely admitted Matthewes Gospell. The Acts of the Apostles the Seuerian heretikes contemned. The Marcionites the Epistles to Timothie, to Titus, to the Hebrues. The Ebionites could not away with any of S. Paules workes. ex Whitakero, cont. 1. de Script. cap. 3. Vnto these adde the Zwencfeldians and Libertines that refuse to be iudged by the Scripture, calling it a dead letter, and flie vnto the inward and secret reuelations of the spirite. Page  3 And by your leaue the Papists are not far from this heresie some of them: al∣though the Iesuite crie neuer so much with open mouth, that wee belye them, De verbo Dei lib. 1. cap. 1. Take but a litle paines to peruse that worthy learned mans and reuerent fathers defence of the Apologie p. 521. there you shall find how that Lodouicus a Canon Lateran in Rome, said in the Councell of Trent, that the Scripture is but mortuum atramentū, dead inke. The Bishop of Poitiers sayd, that it was, but res mammis & muta, a dead and dumbe thing. Albertus Pigghius, that the Scriptures were but muti Iudices, dumbe Iudges. Eckius calleth it Euangelium nigrum, & theologiam atramentariam, the blacke Gospell and inkie diuinitie: and it is nasus cereus, a nose of wax saith he. And now in cometh Hosius with his part: that it is but lost labor which is bestow∣ed in the Scripture: for the Scripture is a creature, and a certaine bare letter. But the Iesuit saith, that we abuse the name of that man, for those are not his owne words, but he reporteth them of Zuinckfeldius: Be it so for this time, though M. Iewell bestowe some paines to proue them to be according to his owne meaning. Though these be not Hosius owne wordes, yet these are not much better, yea far worse, who speaking of Dauids writing of the Psalmes, sayth thus, Quid ni scriberet, scribimus indocti docti{que} poemata passim, why might not he write (sayth he) being a temporall Prince, as Horace saith, we write bal∣lades euery body both learned and vnlearned. p. 522.

I pray you now how much do these Papists differ from the Libertines and Zuinkfeldians, vnlesse it be in this, that the Libertins cleaue to secret reuela∣tions, the Papistes are pinned vpon the Popes sleeue, affirming that it is no Scripture nor Gospel without the determination of the Church. Nay one of them saith, determinatio Ecclesiae appellatur Euāgelium, the determination of the Church is called the Gospell. Iohannes Maria! will you yet heare of greater impietie? Anno Domini .1240. or thereabout there was a booke set forth by the Friers, called Euangelium aeternum, full of their owne fables, and abominable errors: they taught that Christes Gospell was not to be compared vnto it, and that the Gospel of Christ should be preached but fifty years. This booke with much a do was condemned by the Pope, (but after long disputation) and it was burnt secretely, lest the fryers should haue bene discredited: and withall the booke of Guilielmus de S. amore, which he had written against the Friers, and disputed against their Gospell, was commanded to be burned with the other. Besides these heresies, their opinion also is to be reiected, that thynke that the holy writers might in some things be deceiued, as mistaking one thing for another, or fayling in their memorie. To this opinion Erasmus en∣clined, whom Bellarmine taketh paine to confute, lib. 1. cap. 6. He might as well haue turned his argument vpon Melchior Canus their owne champion, who thinketh that Stephen Act. 7. in telling so long a storie might forget him selfe in some things Cau. lib. 2. cap. 18. ex Whitakero, but now to the question.

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The Papists Assertion.

THere are certaine bookes annexed to the old Testament, which the Pa∣pists [error 1] them selues do not acknowledge for canonicall, as the Prayer of Manasses, the two bookes of Esdras, commonly called the third and fourth of Esdras: also other which are not vsually in our English Bibles, as an appen∣dix to the booke of Iob, the 151. Psalme, a booke called the Pastor. All these by our aduersaries are reiected. The question betweene vs is concerning these books: first certaine peeces ioyned to canonicall bookes; as seuen Chapters of Esther, certaine stories annexed to Daniel, as of Bel & the Dragon, of Susanna, the Song of the three children: also the Epistle of Baruch ioyned to Ieremy. Thē folow certaine whole books, as Tobie, Iudith, the Wisedome of Salomon, Ecclesiasticus, two bookes of the Machabees: these six bookes with the other three appendices or peeces of books the Papists hold to be canonicall, and of as firme authority as any part of the Scripture. Arguments they haue none, beside cartaine testimonies of some fathers and Councels, which we purpose not to deale withall, leauing them to our learned country men who haue ta∣ken in hand to discusse these controuersies to the full.

The Protestants confession.

WE are agreed concerning the new testamēt, that all the books therof as they stand are to be receiued of all for Scripture: for as for those forged Gospels of Thomas, S. Andrew, of Nicodemus and the like, though the Church were troubled with them in times past, yet their memory being now worne out, there is no question of thē. Concerning the bookes on both sides acknowledged, if some one man seeme to doubt of some one part, as Luther doth of the Epistle of Iames and Iude, it ought no more to preiudice vs, then Catetanus opinion doth hurt them who called more bookes in question then Luther did, as the Epistle of Iames, of Iude, the second of Peter, the second and third of Iohn, the last Chapter of Marke.

We differ not then in the new Testament, vnlesse it be concerning the au∣thor of the Epistle to the Hebrews, which ouer aduersaries stoutly affirme to be S. Pauls, which we deny not, neither certainly can affirme it, seeing in some Greeke copies it is left out, and in the Syriacke translation. But it mattereth not who was the author, seeing we receiue it as canonicall: for the title is no part of the booke, and so neither of Scripture: and we receiue many bookes in the old Testament, the authors whereof are not perfectly knowne.

So then all the question is about the Apocrypha of the old Testamēt: they are called Apocrypha, because they are hid and obscure, not because their authours are vnknowne: for as I sayd, we knowe not by whom certaine Canonical bookes were written: neither are they so called because of some vntruthes conteined in them contrary to Scripture, as the most of them haue▪ for it foloweth not, that euerie booke which hath no vntruth or lye, should straight wayes be taken for Scripture, but they are therfore iudged and called Apocrypha, because they were not in former time receiued into publike and Page  5 authentick authoritie in the Church, neither to be alledged as grounds of our faith though they may be read for example of life, and may haue other profi∣table vse. But the Canonicall Scripture onely hath this priuiledge to geue rules of faith, and thereupon it hath the name, that we may be bold to beleeue and ground our faith vpon the canonicall & holy Scripture, which is the onely word of God. Wherefore out of this number of Canonicall Scripture we ex∣clude all the books afore named, & therfore let not the reader be deceiued, that although they be ioyned in one volume with the Scripture; to think that they are for that of the same authoritie and credit with the rest: first we will shew one reason in general, and afterward come vnto the particular books in order.

1 All canonical scripture in the old Testament was written by Prophets: we haue a sure word of the prophetes, saith S. Peter 2.1.19. and S. Paule, Rom. 16.26. calleth them the Scriptures of the Prophets. But none of those bookes aforenamed, of Tobias, Iudith and the rest, were written by the Prophets: for they were all written since Malachies time, who was the last Prophete, as the Church complaineth, Psal. 74.9. There is not one Prophete; nor any that can tell vs how long. Ergo none of these bookes are canonicall.

2 All the canonicall bookes of the old Testament, were acknowledged of the Iewes and Hebrues, for they were then onely the Church of God, and where should Scripture be found but in the Church? to them, sayth S. Paule, were committed the oracles of God, Rom. ▪3.2. But the Iewes receiued none of these books: for none of them are written in the Hebrue toung, neither did they receiue them with the like authoritie as other bookes of Scripture; and this some of the Papists can not denie. Ergo thy are not Canonicall.

3 There is no Scripture of the old Testament, but it hath approbation of the new: for as the Prophetes beare witnesse to Christ, so he againe doth witnesse for the Prophets, and therefore it is a true proposition of Caietane, though he be controlled and checked of Catharinus an other Papist for it, that there is no Scripture, which was not either written or approued by the Apostles: but in the whole new Testament you shall not find one testimony cited either in the Gospel or the Epistles out of any of the Apocrypha, as out of other bookes of Scripture: therefore hauing no approbation of the new Testament, we conclude they are none of the old.

4 It shall appeare in the seuerall discourse of the particular bookes, that there is somewhat euen in the bookes themselues to be found, that barreth them from being Canonicall.

The Papistes.

THis is their best reason for the authoritie of this booke, because Baruch was Ieremies scribe: and therfore Baruch can not be refused, vnlesse also we Page  6 doubt of Ieremie. Bellarm. lib. 1. de verbo. Dei. cap. 8.

The Protestantes.

THis booke was neither written by Ieremie nor Baruch: first because it is in Greeke: if either Ieremie or Baruch had written it, it is most like they would haue written in Hebrue. Secondly, the phrase and manner of speach sheweth that it was neuer written in Hebrue: for in the 6. Chapter in the Epi∣stle of Ieremie, it is said that the Israelites should be in captiuitie seuen genera∣tions, that is 70. yeares, but it can not be found in any Hebrue booke that ge∣neration is taken for the space of 70. yeares.

The Papistes.

ONe of their chief Arguments, besides testimonies and authorities, which would make to great a Volume, is this (which is common also to the rest of the Apocrypha) they are read in the Church, & haue bene of auncient time, Ergo they are Canonicall. I aunswere, that it is no good argument. Hierome saith plainly, Legit Ecclesia, sedeos inter Scripturas Canonicas non recipit, Praefat. in lib. Solomon. The Church indeede (saith he) readeth them, yet for all that they are not Canonicall. And Augustine was wōt to read vnto the people the Epist∣les of the Donatistes, and his aunsweres vnto them. Epist. 203.

The Protestantes.

THe most of our reasons against the authoritie of the 7. Chapters added to Esther (for of the 10 first Chapters, which are found in the Hebrue, we make no doubt at all) are drawen from the matter of the booke it selfe.

1 In the second of the Canonicall Esther. ver. 16. it is said that the conspi∣racie of the two Eunuches against the king, was in the 7. yeare of Assuerus: but in the 11. Chap. ver. 2. of the Apocryphall Esther, we read that Mardocheus did dreame of this conspiracie in the secōd yeare. Bellarmine aunswereth, that both are true, for the dreame was in the secōd yeare, & the conspiracie in the seuēth; so belike, there was fiue yeares betweene. But in the 11. Chapter, it is said that Mardocheus was much troubled about that dreame, and the next night after his dreame the conspiracie was enterprised.

2 The true history of Esther saith that Mardocheus had no reward at that time of the king. cap. 6.3. but the forged storie saith, that at the same time the king gaue him great gifts, which can not be meant, of that great honor which afterward was bestowed vpon Mardoche: for then Haman (being hanged the same day) could worke him no despite, wheras the forged story saith, that after the king had rewarded him, then Haman began to stomach him, because of those two Eunuches.

Page  73 Againe the storie which is added, was written many yeares after Mar∣doches & Esthers death, vnder the raigne of Ptolomaeus & Cleopatra, as it appea∣reth. cap. 11.1. it is not like therefore to be a true storie: Bellarmins ridiculous cōiecture is this, that there were two stories writtē in Hebrue of Esther, the one cōpendious & short, which we now haue: the other more large, which might be translated by Lisimachus there spoken of cap. 11. whose translation we now onely haue, the originall being perished. What goodly gesses here be, to make Canonicall Scripture? what neede two bookes of one thing? If the first were written by the spirite of God and so were Canonicall, what neede a secōd? the spirite of God vseth not to correct his own writings: and this can not be that ample and large storie imagined, being shorter, and not so full as the first.

4 Besides the false storie saith, that Haman was a Macedonian. Cap. 16. v. 10. the true storie saith, he was an Agagite or Amalekite. cap. 8.3. how can these two agree? Nay the forged booke saith, that Haman would haue destroyed the king, & so cōueyed the kimgdome of the Persians to the Macedonians: which could in no wise be: for the kingdome of the Macedonians was not yet spo∣ken of: and so it continued in small or no reputation till Phillippus the father of Alexander, who was many yeares after. Vide plura▪ Whitach. quaest. 1. cap. 8. De Scripturis.

5 In the latter Chapters that is repeated, which was set downe in the for∣mer part, which argueth, that the story was not writtē by one mā: and it is not like he would write one part in Hebrue, another in Greeke. If any say (as the Iesuite saith) that this part was in Hebrue, and being translated into Greeke, was lost: why was one part rather lost then the other? and was it not as like to be preserued in Hebrue as in Greeke? These are verie bare and suspicious coniectures.

OF CERTAINE CHAPTERS annexed to Daniell.

THere are three parcels ioyned to Daniell, the song of the 3. childrē, the sto∣rie of Susanna, of Bel and the Dragon, in the vulgare Latin, which are not any part of Canonicall Scripture.

1 They are neither extant in Hebrue at this day, nor are like to haue bene translated out of Hebrue into Greeke: but compiled first in Greeke, and ther∣fore not written by Daniell: for v. 54.58. of the storie of Susanna, where one of the Elders saith, he saw her vnder a Lentiske tree, the other vnder a prime tree: he vseth a certaine paronomasie or allusion vnto the Greeke wordes, which cā not stand in the Hebrue, as of the tree 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, he saith the Angell of the Lord 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, shall cut you in two: and so of the tree 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, shall deuide thee in two. As if a mā should thus allude in English: thou wast vnder the prune tree: the Lord shall prime thee. This allusion is not in the Hebrue, as the learned haue verie well obserued, but onely in the Greeke.

Page  82 The time is vncertaine whē this storie should be done. It was in the cap∣tiuitie: for Susanna dwelt in Babilon, but Daniell could not then be so young a child as the storie maketh, for he was carried away in the first captiuitie with Iehoiakim as it is Dan. 1. And Ezechiell, that liued about that time doth speake of the great prudence & sage wisedome of Daniel, Ezech. 28.3. and ioyneth him with Noah & Iob. cap. 14. All this proueth that Daniell could not bee so very a babe in the beginning of the captiuitie, as the storie maketh him.

3 In the story of Daniell it is said that he was 6. dayes in the Lyōs den, but the true storie saith he was there but one night. cap. 6. The Iesuite aunswereth, he was twise in the Lyons den, or rather he thinketh there were two Daniels, the one of the tribe of Iuda, which was that great Prophet: the other of Leui, which was the principall in those two stories of Susanna, and of Bel and the Dragon. But this is a poore shift, to inuent another Daniell, whom the Scrip∣ture neuer knew: and if it were so, why are all their actes ioyned together, as if one Daniell had done and write them all.


1 THis booke is not found in the Hebrue, in the which toung all the oracles of God were kept. Ergo it is worthelie doubted of.

2 Our aduersaries them selues confesse, that in Hieromes time it was not receiued for Canonicall. The Iesuite aunswereth: that it might be doubted of before it was determined in a Generall Councell: to whom (saith he) it apper∣taineth to define of Canonicall Scripture: As though this were not a greater doubt, whether a Coūcell hath any such authoritie, to determine which books ought to be receiued for Canonicall, for Canus a Papist maketh question of it. Lib. 2. cap. 8. And the Iesuite him selfe saith that the Church can not, Facere Canonicum de non Canonico, make a booke not canonicall, to be canonicall, but onely to declare those to be Canonicall, which are so in deed. Wherefore the Papistes take to much vpō them, to make this boke within the Canon, being of it selfe not Canonicall, and so adiudged by antiquitie.

3 He that readeth the booke it selfe shall finde that both the stile, and the matter is not such as beseemeth Canonicall Scripture: read Tremell. in cap. 3. ver. 8. cap. 13. ver. 15.


AN escpeciall Argument against this booke is, that the historie can not be assigned to any time.

1 It is pretie sport to see how the Papistes doe moyle them selues about this point: and can not agree amongest them selues. Some hold that this sto∣rie fell out after the captiuitie in Cambises time, as Lyranus, and Driedo: some in Darius Histaspis raigne, as Gerardus, Mercator: some would haue it before the captiuitie in Sedechias time, as Genebrard: some in Iosias time, as Iohan. Be∣nedictus: Page  9 but the Iesuite confuteth them all, and bringeth the storie to Manas∣ses raigne: but he hath also mist the cushin.

2 It appeareth that this story could not be after the captiuitie for we read not of any Nabuchadneser afterwards, for the kingdome was translated frō the Assirians to the Persians and Meedes. Againe it could not be before either in Iosias time, Sedechias, or Manasses, first because in the 5. Chap. v. 18. it is said that the temple had bene destroyed and cast downe, which could not be in any of those kings raignes. It is but a shift of Bellarmines, to say those words were foy∣sted into the text: it is rather to be thought, that the Iesuite is put to his trūps, not hauing els, what to answer. Secōdly Iudith being at this time in the flower of her age, and liuing afterward many yeares till she was 105. yeare old, all which time, and many yeares after her death, the booke saith in the last Chap∣ter, the land had rest: this can not agree with Manasses time: for within 40. yeares or not much aboue, the land fell into great trouble, straight after Iosias death. Where then is this long time of rest? And the Iesuite that still groūdeth vpon impossibilities and vnlikele-hoods, that Iudith was at this time 40. yeare old, which was (saith he) in the beginning of Manasses raigne, and so to dye a∣bout 7. yeares before Iosias: yet for all his scanning is driuē to this shift, that the many yeares peace after her death, must be vnderstood of poore 7. yeares. Thirdly, if all this happened in Manasses time, whom the Chaldeans tooke and carried away prisoner, and had much troubled and afflicted the country of Iudaea: what neede had Holofernes to enquire so curiously of Achior the Ammonite, of the country their Citie, people, kings, and such like:* seeing they had knowen the country, to well before in spoyling and wasting of it, as the Iewes by wofull experience had felt.

The Papistes.

OVr aduersaries reason thus: they say that S. Paul. Rom. 11.34. vsing this speach: who hath knowen the Lordes minde or bene his counseller? doth alledge it out of the 4. Chapter of this booke. v. 13. Ergo it is Canonicall. We aunswere. First the Apostle seemeth not in that place to cite any testimonie, though the wordes which he vseth▪ may els where be found. Secondly though the like wordes are read in the booke of Wisedome, yet is it not necessarie the Apostle should borrow them frō thēce, but rather they are alledged out of the 40. of Esay. 13. Where the Prophet saith, who hath instructed the spirit of God or was his counseller? And this also is the opiniō of the Rhemistes, that S. Paul in that place vseth the Prophets wordes.

The Protestantes.

OVr reasons against the authoritie of this booke are these and such like.

1 Because this booke is not found in the Hebrue, but written onely Page  10 in Greeke: wherefore it is not Canonicall seeing the Iewes had all the oracles of God.

2 Philo a Iew is thought by the Papistes them selues to be the author of this booke, who liued after Christ in the time of Caligula, neither him selfe was a Christian or beleeued in Christ: therefore an vnlike man to be a writer of Canonicall Scripture. Bellarmine saith, it was another Philo, who was more auncient. Indeed Iosephus maketh mention of a Philo before this time, but he was an Heathen and no Iew.

3 If this booke were written by Solomon, why is it not extant in Hebrue? for Solomon wrote in Hebrue & not in Greeke. Many of the Papists also do proue, that it was not written by Solomon: for though Solomon in the 2. Chap∣ter be brought in praying vnto God: that is no good argument to proue Solo∣mon the author, for the author might speake in the person of Solomon.

OF THE BOOKE CALLED Ecclesiasticus.
The Papistes.

THey haue none but common and generall arguments for the authoritie of this booke, as that it was of old read in the church, & diuerse of the fa∣thers alledged testimonies out of it. All this proueth not, as we haue shewed before, that it was Canonicall, but that it was well esteemed and thought of, because of many wholesome and good precepts which are conteined in it.

The Protestantes.

WE do thus improue the authoritie of this booke.

1 The author in the Preface saith, that he trāslateth in this booke such things, as before were collected by his grandfather in Hebrue, and excu∣seth him selfe, because that things translated out of the Hebrue do loose the grace, and haue not the same force: so then it appeareth that this booke can not be Canonicall being imperfect: neither was his grandfathers worke (which is now lost) to be thought any part of the Scripture, seeing he was no Prophet him selfe, but a compiler and a collector of certaine things out of the Prophetes.

2 He exhorteth his countrymen to take it in good worth, and so craueth pardon: but the spirit of God vseth not to make any such excuse, whose works are most perfect, and feare not the iudgement of men.

3 This booke saith. cap. 46. v. 20. that Samuell prophesied after his death, & from the earth lift vp his voyce. Whereas the Canonicall Scripture saith not that it was Samuell, but that Saul so imagined, and thought it to be Samuell. 1. Sam. 28. And Augustine thinketh it was, phantasma Samuelis, but a shew one∣ly and representation of Samuell, and an illusion of the deuill. Lib. ad Dulcitiū, quaest. 6. For it is not to be thought, that the deuill cā disease the soules of any Page  11 men, much lesse of Saints departed.

OF THE TWO BOOKES OF the Machabees.

OVr Argumentes against the authoritie of this booke are these ensuing, for our aduersaries bring nothing on their part, but such Argumentes drawen from testimonies & authorities, as do generally serue for all the Apo∣crypha, which are aunswered afore.

1 Iudas is commended. 2. booke. chap. 12. for offring sacrifice for the dead: which was not commanded by the law, neither is it the custome of the Iewes so to do to this day: & againe they were manifest Idolaters: for there were foūd iewels vnder their coates consecrate to the Idols of the Iamnites. And our ad∣uersaries graunt them selues, that prayer is not to be made, for open malefa∣ctors dying impenitently.

2 Lib. 2. cap. 2. many things are reported of the arke, the holy fire, the altar the tabernacle, which should be hid by Ieremie in a caue, and that the Lord would shew the people these things at their returne. Here are many things vnlikely and vntrue. First, it is found, saith the text in the writings of Ieremie: but no such storie is there found. Secondly Ieremie was in prison till the very taking of the Citie: and the Citie being taken the temple was spoyled, the ho∣ly things defaced and carried away, how could they then be conueyed by Iere∣mie? Thirdly in their returne, they found neither arke nor fire, nor any such thing: but saith the Iesuite, the Iewes in their conuersion to God in the end of the world, may haue them againe: as though, whē they shal beleeue in Christ, they will any more looke backe to the ceremonies or rites of the law, for what vse then I pray you shall they haue of altar or sacrifice or any such like.

3 There is a great disagreeing in the storie betweene the two bookes cō∣cerning the death of Antiochus. Lib. 1. cap. 6. v. 6.16. It is said that Antiochus dyed for grief in Babylon, hearing of the good successe of the Iewes. Lib. 2.1. ver. 16. Antiochus was with the rest of his souldiers slayne in the temple of Nanea, and his head cut of & throwen forth. Chap. 9. the same Antiochus falling sicke by the way dyed with a most filthie and stincking smell, cōsumed of wormes: How could this man dye thrise, in Babylon, in Nanea, and by the way in a straunge coūtrey. It is confessed by the Iesuite, that it was the same Antiochus, who saith he lost his armie in the temple, and sickned by the way and dyed at Babylon. But the storie saith that their heads were cut of: I thinke thē he could not liue, and that he dyed in a straunge country, therefore not at Babylon in his bed. These things hang not together.

4 Further the author of these bookes saith, that he abridgeth the story of one Iason a Syrenean. Lib. 2. cap. 2. v. 23. Who was an Heathen: but the spirite of God vseth not, neither needeth to borow of prophane writers. He saith that this worke was not easie but paineful to him, but required sweating and wat∣ching. Page  12v. 26. But to the holy writers of Scripture, though their own labour and diligence was not wanting, yet was not the worke hard or molestious vnto them. Lastly the author faith he writeth for pleasure & recreation of the Rea∣der, and craueth pardon, if he haue not done well. Lib. 2.15.39. But to read for pleasure is no end of Scripture, neither doth the spirit of God vse any excuse either for matter or manner.

Our aduersaries say that S. Paule likewise confesseth, that he was rude in speaking. 1. Cor. 11.6. We aunswere, he so saith, because the false Apostles so gaue out of him, not that he was so indeed: and yet in that place S. Paule doth not excuse him selfe, for his not sufficiēt hādling of his matter, as this author doth: neither is that speach of S. Luke any thing like: for there the Euangelist doubteth not to say, that he had attained to an exact knowledge of all things. Vpon these premises we conclude, that these bookes of the Machabees are not Canonicall, nor to be taken for any part of holy Scripture, though we denie not, but that there may be some profitable vse of them for the storie.

AVGVSTINES IVDGEMENT OF the bookes called Apocrypha.

FIrst, generally of them all thus he writeth. Quas ita{que} Scripturas dicimus nisi Canonicas legis & Prophetarum, de vnit. Eccle. 16. We acknowledge no Ca∣nonicall Scripture of the old Testament, but the law and the Prophetes, but none of the Apocrypha were writtē by any of the Prophets. Againe he saith: Omnes literae, quib. Christus Prophetatus est, apud Iudaeos sunt Psal. 56. All the bookes, which do Prophesie of Christ, were kept amōgest the Iewes: but none of the Apocrypha were written in Hebrue. Ergo. Concerning the story of Bel and the Dragon he calleth it a fable, de mirabilib. lib. 2. cap. 32. Of the same cre∣dite is the storie of Susanna.

The booke of Iudith was not (saith he) receiued in the Canon of the Iewes. De Ciuit. Dei. 18.26.

The two bookes of Ecclesiasticus and the wisedome of Solomon are onely said to be Solomons, propter eloquij nonnullam similitudinem, because of some affi∣nitie and likenesse of the stile. De Ciuit. Dei. 17.20. So he thinketh that Solomon was not indeed the author of them: how then can that booke be Canonicall, which geueth it selfe a false title: being called the wisedome of Solomō, and was neuer compiled by Solomon.

THE SECOND QVESTION CONCER∣ning the authenticall and most approued Edition of the Scriptures.

The Papistes.

WHereas it is confessed that the Hebrue Edition of the old Testamēt [error 2] is the most auncient: in the which toung the Scriptures were com∣piled Page  13 by the Prophets: & that the new Testamēt was writtē in Greeke by the Apostles and the Euangelistes, yet our aduersaries do generally hold, as it was decreed in the Tridētine Chapter. Sess. 4. Decret. 2. That in all sermōs, readings, disputations, controuersies, the vulgare Latine trāslation should be taken for authentike before the Hebrue or Greeke, and that no man should presume vpon any occasion to reiect it, or appeale from it.

The Protestantes.

WE do truly affirme, that although there are diuerse Editiōs of the old Testament besides the Hebrue, and some of them verie auncient, as the translation of the Septuagints, compiled by 72. aunciēts of the Iewes, at the instigation of Ptolomeus Philadelphus king of Egypt, 300. yeares before Christ: and after Christ there were other translations in Greeke made by Aquila, Sy∣nomachus, Theodotion, and others: also a Chalde Paraphrase compiled by the Iewes, & last of all diuerse Latin translations, the which, as Augustine saith, in his time were so many, that they could not be nūbred: yet of al the rest the He∣brue being the most auncient and the mother of the rest, and freest from cor∣ruptions, ought to be receiued as most authentike. And for the new Testa∣ment, though there be a Syriacke translation verie auncient, yet the Greeke ought to be preferred (being the same toung, wherein the Apostles and the E∣uangelistes wrote) to be the onely authentike copie. As for the Latin transla∣tion of the Bible, we are able to proue it to be verie corrupt and faultie and therefore not authentike.

The Papistes Argumentes.

1 THe Latin Church hath vsed the vulgare Latin translation for the space of 800. or 900. yeares, and it is not like that the Church all this while was without the true Edition of the Scriptures. Ergo it is onely authen∣ticall. We aunswere. First, by this Argument it foloweth that this vulgar La∣tin being generally vsed, was preferred before other Latin translations, which were at the first in great number, not that therefore it is more authentike then the Hebrue in the old, and the Geeeke in the new Testaments. Second∣ly, there were other Churches besides the Latin all this while, as amongest the Greekes famous congregations and Churches: that be it in the Latin Church, the vulgar translation was reteined being erroneous, yet the whole Church continued not in that errour, which were not so tyed and bound to the Latin translation. Thirdly, if men all this while (knowledge decreasing, and a way being in preparing for Antichrist) were negligent in correcting and amen∣di•• the common translation, this is no good Argument to make it authen∣ticall.

As the Hebrues had an authentike translation in their own toung, and 〈…〉 in theirs, why should not the Latin Church haue it also authen∣ticall Page  14 in Latin. We aunswere. First, it is no good reason, because the Lord did consecrate the Hebrue and Greeke toung, and therein would haue his word written, that therefore he would or should also haue made the Latin as well authenticall, as they. Secondly, if the Latin Church must haue an authentike translation, why should not other countrys likewise haue their authenticals? The Armenians had the Scriptures of old translated by Chrisostome, the Scla∣uonians by Hierome, the Gothes by Vlphilas, why should not these also as well be authenticall? and so looke into how many toungs the Scriptures should be translated so many authenticall translations should there be.

3 They say that all other translations, which are come forth since are er∣ronious, and much differ amōgest them selues. Aunswere. First, this is no rea∣son to prefere it before the Hebrue and Greeke, though it were better thē all other trāslations. Secondly, they charge vs falsly, that our trāslations are disso∣nant and erronious: for their disagreement is not in such substantiall points, & where any of them do swarue from the originall, we allow them not: and yet there is not the meanest of them, but may iustly compare with theirs, yea and be preferred before it. Thirdly, if their trāslation were so pure, as they say Beza him selfe maketh it, he would not haue set forth a new Edition: and he prefer∣reth it in some places before other translations, but is farre of from making it authenticall, and so are we: these are the Iesuites arguments. De verb. Dei lib. 2. cap. 10. and some of our Rhemists in their Preface to the new Testament. Some of our Argumentes are these, for it is not necessarie to repeat all, and it were to long.

1 If the Latin translation be authenticall, as it was decreed in the Councel of Trent, then it must haue bene so from the beginning, so soone as there was any Latin translation: for the Councell had not authoritie to make that au∣thenticall, which was not, but onely to declare it so to be. But the Latin trans∣lation, for the space of 600. yeares after Christ was not receiued as authenticall: for we finde that the Latin writers as Lactantius, Hilarius, Ambrosius, Hieroni∣mus, Augustinus, and others did not vse the same Latin translation: Ergo, this vulgare Latin hauing not bene alwayes, since it was extant authenticall, why should it now begin?

2 That Edition, which was made, and framed, and first writtē by the Pro∣phets, Apostles, Euangelistes, is to be preferred before that, which was not cō∣piled by any Prophet or Apostle. But such are the Hebrue in the old Testa∣ment, and the Greeke Edition in the new, by the confession of our aduersaries, Bellarmin. cap. 7. lib. 2. Such is not the Latin, for it is vncertaine, by whom it was written: for the Iesuite confesseth, that it is not all of Hieromes Edition: as the booke of the Psalmes, Wisedome, Ecclesiasticus, the Machabees, which they thinke were not translated by Hierome: But let vs graunt that the whole was of Hieromes doing, yet was he no Prophet nor Apostle, saith he, Aliud est va∣tem esse, aliud interpretem, it is one thing to be a Prophet, another to be an inter∣preter. Wherefore it is no reason, that Hieromes, or whose translation els soe∣uer Page  15 should be receiued before the writings of Prophets and Apostles.

But say our aduersaries, if we had a perfect copie of the Hebrue & Greeke editions, we cōfesse they were to be preferred: but now they are full of faults, and greatly corrupted. We aunswere. First, the Iesuite him selfe disputing a∣gainst Canus and Lindanus two Archpapistes, that though there may be some scapes in the translations by the fault of some Libraries and imperfect copies, yet concerning the doctrine of faith and manners, saith, there is no corruption in them. Lib. 2. cap. 2. Secondly, though there may be and are some wordes falsly written, and by errour thrust into the text, yet they shall neuer proue that they are more corrupt, the Hebrue and Greeke, then the Latin: for it foloweth no more, that because of some scapes the Latin is to be preferred before them, thē that a cloake altogether patched and ragged is better then a cloake of veluet that hath but one peece.

3 The Iesuite him selfe, and other Papistes confesse, that in some cases it is very necessary to haue recourse to the originall: as when some word seemeth to be mistaken by the writer, as where cecinit is read for cecidit: dorix, for vo∣rax, cor for coram, or when the Latin copies do varie, or if the sentence in La∣tin be ambiguous, and lastly, the force and propertie of the wordes is better vnderstood in the originall. Bellarm. lib. 2. cap. 11. Ergo by the Iesuites confessiō, the originall or fountaines are more certaine and sure without doubtfulnesse and ambiguitie, therefore more authenticall then the Latin.

4 There are many & great errors in the vulgare translation, and contra∣rie to the originall, Ergo it is not authētike. Some of the places we will quote, as Genes. 3. ipsa conteret, for ipsum, she shall breake the Serpents head, where we do read, that not the woman, but her seede shall breake his head. Genes. 6. ver. 6. for figmentum cordis malum: the thoughtes of mans hart are euill, they read, in∣tenta ad malum cogitatio, enclined to euill: and so extenuate originall sinne. Ge∣nes. 14.18. for protulit panem & vinum, Melchisedech brought forth bread and wine: they read, obtulit he offred, or made an oblation of bread and wine, and would hereby establish the sacrifice of their Masse. Ecclesiasticus. 16.14. for se∣cundum opera, a man shall receiue according to his workes: they read after the merite of his workes. In their Latin translatiōs of the Psalmes there are many corruptions. Psal. 67. v. 12. si dormiatis inter medios cleros, though ye sleepe be∣tween two lots, without any sēse: the Hebrue thus inter ollas, though you haue lyen amongest the pots, as being blacke with affliction. v. 22. they read conuer∣tam in profundum maris: I will turne them into the bottom of the sea, for reducā profundo maris, I will bring them frō the depth of the sea, cleane cōtrary. Psal. 132.15. viduā eius benedicam, I will blesse his widow, for victū, I will blesse his vi∣ctuails. So in the new Testamēt, are many false readings. Luc. 1.28. plena gratia, for gratis dilecta, hayle Marie full of grace, for freelie beloued. Luc. 15.8. euertit domū, for euerrit: she ouerthrew the house, for she swept the house. 1. Cor. 15. v. 51. non omnes immutabimur, we shall not all be chaunged, for omnes immutabi∣mur, we shall all be chaunged. Ephe. 2.10. creati in bonis operib. created in good Page  16 workes, for ad opera bona, created vnto good workes. An hundred more er∣rours and ouer, you may finde noted in the readings of our learned country mā D. Whitakers. 2. quaest. de Scrip. 10.11.12. cap. these I haue set down for a tast.

Lastly we will rehearse Augustines iudgement: Vtcun{que} est, ei linguae magis credatur, vnde est in aliam per interpres facta translatio: Howsoeuer the case stan∣deth (saith he) we ought to geue more credit to that toung, out of the which o∣ther are translated. Lib. 15. de Ciuit. cap. 13. Ergo the Hebrue in the old Testa∣ment, and the Greeke in the new, out of the which the Latin and all other trās∣lations haue issued, ought to haue the onely preheminence.

THE THIRD QVESTION: CONCERNING the vulgare translation of Scripture.

The Papistes.

THey do not absolutely condemne the translation of the Scriptures into the vulgare toung, what soeuer they haue thought in times past: neither would they generally haue euery mā permitted to read the Scripture, but such onely as haue especiall licence from their ordinarie, hauing the testimonie of their Curates that they be humble and deuout persons, Rhenens. praefat. sect. 6. So then they hold it daungerous for all men to read Scripture, and they would not willingly licence any, but their Pope holie deuout Catholikes; they are like to make a mad peece of worke, that go about to picke their faith out of Scripture, say the Rhemists, annot. 1. Cor. 1.5. This then is their opinion, that it is neither necessarie nor conuenient for all men to haue accesse to the Scrip∣tures: we will see some of their reasons.

1 From the time of Esdras till Christ, and in our Sauiours time, the Scrip∣tures were not in the vulgare toung, but onely in the Hebrue, which the Iewes vnderstood not after the captiuitie: Ergo it is not now necessary to haue them in the vulgare toūg. That the people vnderstood not Hebrue, the Iesuite pro∣ueth out of the 8. of Nehemiah: where it is said, that Esdras did expoūd the law to the people, because they vnderstood it not. We answere, that the text saith cleane contrary, that he read the law before the people that vnderstood it. v. 3. and they might geue the sense, though the people vnderstood the language. Concerning the places obiected out of the Gospell, to proue the Iewes spake another language thē Hebrue, as it appeareth by those speaches Marc. 5. Ta∣litha cumi, Math. 27. Golgotha, which sauour not of the Hebrue toung, we an∣swere, that although they spake not pure Hebrue, but many straunge wordes were vsed, yet they vnderstood the Hebrue, for why els doth Christ bid the people to search the Scriptures? And they were not the Iewes, but the Ro∣mane souldiers that vnderstood not the voyce of Christ vpon the Crosse, say∣ing, he called for Elias.

2 The Apostles (saith the Iesuite) wrote their Epistles onely in Hebrue or Greeke, and not in the vulgare tounges of the natiōs to whom they preached, Page  17Ergo it is not necessary that the scriptures should be in the vulgare toung. We answere. First, it had bene an infinite labour for the Apostles, to haue left their writings in euery language, neither was it necessary, seeing out of the original they might be trāslated into euery language. Secōdly, they preached the same things vnto the Gētiles in their own toūgs, which they afterward left in wri∣ting. Thirdly, the Greeke toūg, wherein they wrote, was vniuersally knowen, and few countryes were ignorant of it, especially in the East parts.

3 There is no cause (say they) why the Scriptures should be translated: if it be for the vnderstanding of the people, they vnderstād them not being trans∣lated neither. We aunswere: many things they may easely vnderstand: and for the harder places, they are nearer the vnderstanding of them being translated, then before: for then they haue two great lets, the toung vnknowen, and the obscure and hid sense; now they need not to labour for the toung, but onely for the sense.

4 The Scriptures are occasion of offence and heresie, being not right vn∣derstood, Ergo. First▪ because many surfet of meats and drinkes, it is no reason that sober men should be forbidden the vse of them: no more for heretikes & wicked mens sakes ought the people of God to be barred from Scripture. Se∣condly, more haue perished by ignorance in Scripture, then by misunderstan∣ding it: and the Scripture, was ordained of God to meete with offences, and to confute heresies. 2. Tim. 3.15. Wherefore these men make them selues wiser then God, that thinke the Scripture is an occasion of those diseases, for the which it is apppointed a remedie.

The Protestantes.

WE do beleeue and hold that it is requisite, expedient and necessarie for the Scriptures to be vttered and set forth in the vulgare and commō speach, and that none vpon any occasion ought to be prohibited the reading thereof for knowledge and instructions sake: and that Christian Magistrates ought to prouide, that the people may haue the Scriptures in their mother & knowē toung. Wherefore great wrong was offered to the people of England that diuerse 100. yeares, till king Henrie the eight, could not be suffred to haue the Scriptures in English. And how I pray you did the Papistes storme, when as Tindals translatiō came forth? some affirming that it was impossible to haue the Scriptures trāslated into English, some that it would make the people he∣retikes: others that it would cause thē to rebell. Fox. pag. 117. col. 1. What fowle and shamefull slaunders were these? For the vulgare translations of Scripture we reason thus.

1 It is Gods commandement, that the Scriptures should be read before the people, that they may learne to feare God, Deut. 31. vers. 11.12. The people are commanded to write the law vpon their gates, and in their houses to conferre and talke with their children and teach them the law▪ Deut. And our Sauiour biddeth the people search the Scripture, Iohn. 5. v. 39. Ergo what God hath commaunded, no man ought to prohibite or forbid: the people therfore Page  18 must not be kept from reading of Scripture.

2 Without Scripture there is no faith, faith is necessarie for all people, Ergo the knowledge of the Scripture: that faith cōmeth by the scriptures, read Iohn. 20.31. these things are written, that ye might beleeue Iesus Christ to be the sonne of God. Againe the weapons of Christiā men, are not denied to any, whereby they should fight against their spirituall enemies, but the word of God is a speciall part of our harnesse,* and a principall weapon, euen the sword of the spirite Ergo.

3 The Gospell may be preached in the vulgare toung, as our blessed Sa∣uiour and the holy Apostles taught the people: Ergo the word of God may be read and writtē in the vulgare toung. The proposition our aduersaries graunt, that Sermōs may be made in the vulgare toung: but it foloweth not, say they, that therefore Scripture should be in the mother toung. Rhem. 1. Cor. 14.8. But I pray you how can the preacher alledge Scripture in his Sermō, vnlesse it be recited in the vulgare toung? or how should the people know they preach the word, vnlesse they may compare their doctrine, with Scripture as the Ber∣rheans did? Act. 17.

4 We haue the practise of the Church of God in times past for our war∣rant: for in Chrisostomes time the people had vulgare translations: whereupon he exhorteth them to get them Bibles, or at the least the new Testament, the Actes of the Apostles, the Gospels. Homil. 9. Epist. ad Coloss. We heard before that the Armenians, Sclauonians, Gothes had the Scripture in their own lan∣guage: so many hundred yeares ago in England king Alured translated the Psalter: a copie whereof was found in Crowland Abbey, called S. Guthlakes Psalter, as M. Lābert witnesseth: and Bede our learned country man, translated S. Iohns Gospell. Fox. pag. 1115. col. 2. The Rhemistes also confesse that more then 300. yeare ago the Italians had the Bible translated, and the French men aboue 200. yeares ago. Praefatan Testam. 4. sect. Why should not the people of God haue the same libertie now freely to read the Scriptures, as they haue had in times past?

5 Let vs heare Augustines opinion: Lectiones diuinas (saith he) & in Ecclesia, sicut consuestis, audite, & in domib. vestris relegite. I would haue you both to at∣tend vnto the publike readings in the Church, and in your house to read ouer againe the holy lessons: but how could the people read them at home, if they were not in their vulgare toung?

AN APPENDIX OR PART OF THIS question, concerning publike prayers and diuine seruice in the vulgare toung.

The Papistes.

[error 4] IT was decreed in the Tridētine Coūcell, that the seruice of the church which they cal the masse, should not be celebrated in the vulgare toūg. Sect. 22. cap. 8. Page  19 And it is the cōmon practise euery where of the Romish church to vse the La∣tin toung onely. We must be cōtent (say they) with those three toungs which God honored vpon the Crosse: namely the Hebrue, Greeke and Latin. This libertie onely they graunt, that their Priest may expound some things, as he readeth, and shew the meaning to the people

1 Thus they argue: the maiestie and grauitie of the sacred businesse, doe require also to be vttered in a sage, sanctified and graue language, Ergo not in the vulgare. We aunswere, the grauitie▪ reuerence, and holynesse consisteth not in words, phrases, and soundes, though neuer so eloquent, but in the things them selues: neither is any toung that is vnderstood, before the Lord counted barbarous: for S. Paule saith, that he is a barbariā, and speaketh barbarously in the Church, that can not be vnderstood. 1. Cor. 14.11. And Actes. 2.11. the verie straungers and barbarians heard the Apostles vtter in their languages the wonderfull things of God: they thought the toung no disgrace to those holy mysteries they vttered.

2 Leuit. 16. ver. 17. The people is commaunded to stand without, till the Priest went in and made attonemēt for them: they vnderstood not the Priest, for they heard him not, Ergo it is not necessarie the people should vnderstand the Minister. We answere. First, that was a type of our Sauiour Christ, who e∣uen so ascended into heauen, as the high Priest did into the holy place: but types and figures proue nothing. Secondly, they vnderstood not the priest, be∣cause they heard him not: but they can not proue that the Priest vttered any thing in their hearing at any time, which they vnderstood not.

3 We must onely vse those toungs in holy affaires, which were sancti∣fied in the Crosse: that is Hebrue, Greeke, Latin. We aunswere: those toungs were not then vsed for any such purpose, but that the death of Christ might by those cōmon and vniuersall toungs be the further spread abroad. And sure∣ly if they would proue that these toungs were hereby sanctified, me thinkes Pilate was no fit instrument of that sanctification, by whose appointment the title was written.

The Protestantes.

WE do affirme, that as it hath bene the commendable vse of all ancient Churches, to haue the seruice in the vulgare toung, that the people might vnderstand, and be better stirred vp to deuotion: so the same godlie vse ought for euer to remaine and be retained in the Church of God.

1 This is most agreable to S. Paules doctrine. 1. Cor 14. who would haue all things done to edifying: but by an vnknowen toung no man is edified: and he saith, he had rather speake fiue wordes to be vnderstood, then ten thousand otherwise. Some of the Papistes say, that S. Paule speaketh of preaching not of praying: but in the 14. ver. he speaketh namely of prayer, and in the 16. of the peoples saying Amē, which was not geuē at Sermons, but in the end of pray∣ers: this is but a weake aunswere. The Rhemistes and the Iesuite say he spea∣keth Page  20 of certaine extraordinarie Hymnes and giuing of thankes, whereof S. Paule speaketh, Ephe. 5.19. Answere S. Paule speaketh generally of all publike exercise in the Church, whether of prayer, preaching, singing, that it should all be done in a knowen toung: for he vseth the generall termes of speaking, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, and of the voyce, as ver. 11. If I vnderstād not the power of the voyce (he saith not of the song, or preaching) I shalbe to him that speaketh, a barbarian: so he misliketh not onely preaching, or singing, but any kinde of speaking in the Church in a strange toung. This place of S. Paule is to euident and plaine, thē that it may be so easilie wrested and depraued by their hereticall and An∣tichristian gloses.

2 Who seeth not that prayers made with the vnderstanding are more cō∣fortable and fruitfull: the other nothing to profite at all, nor yet to be auayla∣ble before God? Howsoeuer our aduersaries say, that the hart and affectiō may pray, though the vnderstanding pray not, yet S. Paule saith, they speake in the ayre: their prayer is but wind 1. Cor. 14.9. Therefore not amisse did that godly Martir M. Wisehart, compare the ridiculous gestures of the Priest at Masse, being not vnderstood of the people, to the playing of an ape. Fox p. 1269. col. 2. And one Iohn Riburne was vniustly troubled of Longlād Bishop of Lincolne anno 1530. for saying, if we had our Pater noster in English, one should say it nine times, against once now. Fox. pag. 984. col. 2. And was not that ghostly & Bishoplike coūsaile thinke you of the Bishop of Cauaillon to the Merindoliās in Fraunce? that it was sufficiēt to know their Pater noster, & Creede in Latin: it was not necessary to saluatiō to vnderstand or expoūd the Articles of faith: for there were many Bishops, Curates, yea Doctors of Diuinitie, whō it would trouble to expound the Creede or Pater noster. Fox. Martirol. pag. 949. col. 2.

3 We will conclude with Augustine. Quare dicta sunt, nisi vt sciantur? quare sonuerunt, nisi vt audiantur? quare audita sunt, nisi vt intelligantur? tract. in Iohan. 21. Why are things spoken in the Church (saith he) but to be knowen? why are they pronoūced, but to be heard? why are they heard but to be vnder∣stood? Ergo, Lessons, and Scriptures, and publike prayers must be vsed in a knowen toung, and easie to be vnderstood.

THE FOVRTH QVESTION: OF THE authoritie of the Scriptures.

The Papistes.

[error 5] THe Papistes of former times doubted not to say, that the Scripture is not authenticall without the authoritie of the Church; so Eckius saith, so Pig∣ghius, that the authoritie of the Scripture dependeth of the authoritie of the Church necessarilie. Hermannus a Papist most impudently affirmeth, that the Scripture should be of no more credite then Aesopes Fables, without the ap∣probation of the Church: a fowle blasphemie. But our Papistes of later time, being ashamed of their forefathers ignoraunce, they say that the Scriptures in Page  21 them selues are perfect, sufficient, authenticall, but that to vs it appeareth not so, neither are we bound to take them for Scripture without the authoritie of the Church: so Canus, Bellarmin. Stapleton: so that, (say they) in respect of vs the Church hath absolute authoritie to determine, which is Scripture, which not. Ex Whitacher. quaest. 3. de Script. cap. 1.

1 There is no more certaine authoritie, thē of the Church, Ergo the church must determine of scripture, sic Stapleton. We answere. First, the maiestie of the Scriptures them selues is more certaine, and the inward testimonie of the spi∣rite, without the which we can not be perswaded of the truth and authoritie of the Scripture. Secōdly, if they meane by the church, the sinagogue of Rome, it hath nothing to do to iudge of Scripture, being the seate of Antichrist: nei∣ther is the authoritie of that Church to be credited, but rather suspected and mistrusted.

2 There are certaine writings of the Prophetes not canonicall, and other writings of some that were no Prophetes, made canonicall, Ergo the Church hath authoritie to iudge of Scripture, sic Stapleton. For the first, where he ob∣iecteth that there are many writings of the Prophetes as of Solomon, Nathan, Ahiia, Ieedo. 2. Chronic. 9.29. that are lost, and if they were extant, should not be receiued. We aunswere. First, it is not to be doubted of, but some part of the canonicall Scripture is lost. Secōdly, how proueth he that if they were extant, they were not to be acknowledged for Scripture.

To the second, that bookes not made by Prophets are iudged canonicall, as of Tobie, Iudith. We aunswere, that these bookes ought not to be canoni∣call, neither that euer they were so taken, till of late it was decreed by Coun∣cels of no great antiquitie: for in the Laodicene Councell and other auncient Councels, they were deemed not to be canonicall.

3 Certaine bookes of the new Testament before doubted of, as the Epi∣stle to the Hebrues, the Apocalipse, the 2. Epistle of Peter, the second of Iohn, are receiued into authoritie by the Church: and other bookes, as the Gospell of Thomas, Mathias, Andrew, Peter, were reiected by the authoritie of the Church. We answere. First, we deny not but that the Church is to discerne be∣tweene the true Scriptures & forged bookes, but this she doth not of her own authoritie, but folowing the direction of Gods spirite speaking in those wri∣tings: for the Church looking into the sacred and diuine matter of the Apo∣stles writings was moued to acknowledge them for the word of God, though of some they were doubted of: & finding the other to be fabulous bookes did by the direction of the same spirite reiect them. Secondly, Augustine and Hie∣rome thinke that the Canon of Scripture might be confirmed in the Apo∣stles time, Iohn being the suruiuer of thē all, who both acknowledged the true writings of the Apostles, and condemned the contrarie. If it be so (the spirite of God in the Apostles hauing determined this question already concerning the canonicall Scripture) the Church hath no authoritie to alter or chaunge that decree. Plura. apud Whitacher. quaest. 3. de Scriptur. cap. 5.

Page  22
The Protestantes.

WE do not despise the sentence of the Church, as our aduersaries doe falsely charge vs: but we confesse that it is the duetie of the Church to geue testimony to the Scriptures, as the Goldsmith doth trie the gold: Fulk. annot. 2. Gal. 2. But the Church ought not to set the Lordes stampe vpon false coyne, as the Papistes do in making Apocryphall bookes canonicall. Neither doe we onely beleeue the Scripture, because of the Churches testimonie, nor chiefly, but because the spirit of God doth so teach vs▪ and the Scriptures them selues do testifie for them selues: so that euerie man is bound to acknowledge the Scripture, though there were no publike approbation of the Church: Fulk. 2. Galat. 6. Whitacher. quaest. 3. cap. 1. de Scripturis. We do reason thus.

1 The Iesuite doth reason strongly for vs: he bringeth fiue arguments to proue the Scripture to be the word of God: veritas vaticiniorum, the constant and perpetuall truth of the Prophecies: incredibilis scriptorum conspiratio, the wonderfull harmonie and consent of holy writers of the Scripture: testis est Deus ipse, the spirite of God is a principall witnesse vnto vs: testis est ipsa Scrip∣tura, the Scripture it selfe beareth witnesse, as 2. Tim. 3. all Scripture is geuen by inspiration: testis est diuinorum numerus infinitus miraculorum: lastly the many and great miracles wrought by the Prophetes and Apostles do testifie for the truth thereof. He maketh no mention at all of the testimonie of the Church, but saith the same that we hold▪ that the spirit of God inwardly wor∣king in our harts by the Scriptures them selues, which we find to be most per∣fect, consonant, true, of singular maiestie, doth teach vs which is the word of God. Bellarmin. de verbo Dei. lib. 1. cap. 2.

2 The Scripture geueth authoritie to the Church, Ergo the Church ge∣ueth not authoritie to the Scripture: the first we proue by our aduersaries own confession: for being asked, how they know that the Church erreth not, they alledge such places of Scripture, as Math. 28.20. I am with you to the end of the world, and the like: how then doth the Church geue authoritie to Scrip∣ture, seeing it taketh her warrant and authoritie from thence? the Iesuite him selfe saith, that nihil est certius vel notius Scripturis, nothing is more certaine or notoriously knowen then Scripture: and againe, sacra Scriptura est regula cre∣dendi certissima, the holy Scripture is the most certaine rule of faith. Bellarm. de verbo. 1.2. If the authoritie of Scripture then be most certaine, what reason is it, that they should depend vpon the iudgement of the Church which is no∣thing so certaine? the lesse certaine ought (rather and so doth indeed) depend of the more certaine, the Church vpon the Scripture, not contrariwise, for the Scriptures are the foundation of the Church. Ephe. 2.20.

3 To beleeue the Scripture is a worke of faith▪ the Church can not infuse faith into vs, but the spirite of God, Ergo the spirite of God not the Church teacheth vs to beleeue Scripture▪ argum. Whitach. 18.

4 If the Scriptures depend vpon the approbation of the Church, then the promises of saluation and eternall life conteined in the Scriptures do so like∣wise: Page  23 but it is absurde to thinke that the promises of God do stand vpō the al∣lowance of men, Ergo neither the Scriptures. argum. Caluini.

5 The Scripture is the chief iudge, and ought so to be in all cōtrouersies: we may appeale from the Church to the Scripture, not from the Scripture to the Church: the Church is subiect to the Scriptures, the rule of faith is in the scriptures, not in the Church: for the cōpanie of faithful which is the Church, are ruled by faith: they do not ouerrule faith, neither are a rule thereof: the Church is a point of beliefe, as in the Creede, not a rule or measure thereof: Ergo the Church is not the chief iudge of Scripture, but it selfe to be iudged by scripture. Whitach. argum. 16.

6 We haue euident places of scripture. Iohn. 5.34. saith Christ, I receiue no witnes of men: but the scripture is the voyce of Christ, and of the same autho∣ritie, Ergo. Ver. 36. I haue a greater testimonie thē of Iohn, the scriptures do te∣stifie of me. Ver. 39. The testimony of the scriptures is greater thē the record of Iohn, Ergo then of the Church. 1. Iohn. 5.6. the spirite beareth witnesse, that the spirite, that is, the doctrine of the spirit is the truth. And. ver. 9. if we receiue the witnesse of man, the witnesse of God is greater, Ergo, not the iudgement of the Church, but the witnesse of the spirite doth certifie and assure vs of the truth and authoritie of scripture.

7 I will adde one saying out of Augustine, Mihi certum est, nusquam a Chri∣sti authoritate discedere, non enim reperio valentiorem. Contra Academic. lib. 3. cap. 20▪ I am resolued for no cause to leaue the authoritie of Christ (speaking in the scriptures) for I finde none more forcible: Ergo the authoritie of scripture is aboue the Church, which is denied by the Rhemistes. annot. 2. Gal. sect. 2.

THE FIRST QVESTION CONCERNING the perspicuitie and playnnes of the Scripture.

The Papistes.

OVr aduersaries do hold that the scriptures are most hard, difficult, and ob∣scure. [error 6] Bellarmine saith, necessario fatendum est, Scripturas esse obscurissimas, it must needes be graunted that the scriptures are most obscure. de verbo Dei. lib. 3. cap. 1. They do not onely affirme that some things are obscure in the scrip∣tures: but that they are all hard, and doubtfull, and vncertaine, and compare thē therfore to a leaden rule, which may be turned euery way, Petrus a Soto. And to a nose of wax, Lindanus a Papist, ex Tilmanno, de verbo Dei error 5. Our Rhe∣mistes say, it is all one to affirme some things to be hard in a writer, and the writer to be hard: so they conclude, that the scriptures are both in respect of the matter and manner, very hard, and therfore daungerous for the ignoraunt to read them. Rhemens. annot. in. 2. Pet. 3. ver. 16.

1 They obiect that place. 2. Pet. 3.16. where the Apostle saith, speaking of S. Paules Epistles, that many things are hard. Ergo the Epistles of S. Paule are hard, and so the scriptures: this is Bellarmine and the Iesuites argument. We an∣swere. Page  24 First, he saith not that Paules Epistles are hard, but many things, which he entreateth of. Secondly, they are hard not to all▪ but the vnstable and vnlear∣ned do peruert them. Thirdly, We denie not, but that some places in the scrip∣ture are obscure, and haue neede of interpretation: but it foloweth not, that therefore the whole scripture is obscure: and because of some hard places, that the people should be forbidden the reading of all.

2 The scriptures are obscure both in the respect of the matter and man∣ner: first the matter is high and mysticall: as of the Trinitie, of the incarnatiō of the word, of the nature of Angels, & such like. We aunswere, these mysteries may be said to be obscure three diuerse wayes. First, in their owne nature: so are they hard indeed, for by humane reason, we can not attaine to the depth of thē. Secondly, in respect of their handling in the scripture: so are they not obscure, for all these things are plainly declared in the word, as the nature of such deepe mysteries will afoord. Thirdly, in respect of vs: so must they needs be obscure, if men be not cōtented with the knowledge in the word, but curiously search further. Luther therefore doth aptly distinguish of these things, he saith that, res Dei, the things of God are obscure, the very depth of his mysteries can not be comprehended of vs, but, res Scripturae, these things, as they are opened in scripture, are plaine, if we will content our selues with that knowledge.

Secondly (saith Bellarmine) the maner of handling is hard and obscure: there are many tropes, metaphores, allegories, Hebraismes, which can not easily be vnderstood. We aunswere. First, many of these are rather ornamentes of the scripture, as tropes, metaphores, then impediments to the reader. Secondly, though the phrase of scripture seeme hard at the first, yet by further trauell in the scriptures it may become easie and plaine: for all things are not vnder∣stood at the first. Thirdly, we denie not but that some places are obscure, and had neede to be opened.

3 If the scriptures be not hard, what need so many Commētaries, and ex∣positions. Rhemist. 2. Pet. 16. We aunswere. First, so many Commentaries are not requisite, some may be spared. Secondly, expositions are needfull for the vnderstanding of darke places: but many things are plaine inough without expositions, and may be vnderstood of the simple.

The Protestantes.

WE do not hold that the scripture is euery where so plaine and euident, that it need no interpretation, as our aduersaries do slaunder vs, and therefore here they do fight with their owne shadow. Bellarm. lib. 3. de verbo cap. 1. We confesse, that the Lord in the Scriptures hath tempered hard things and easie together, that we might be exercised in the Scriptures, and might knocke & labour by prayer and studie, for the opening of the sense: and that there might be order kept in the Church, some to be hearers, some teachers & expounders, by whose diligent search and trauell, the harder places may be o∣pened to the people. But this we affirme against our aduersaries: first that all Page  25 points of faith necessarie to saluation, are plainely set forth in the Scriptures: secondly that the Scriptures may with great profit be read of the simple and vnlearned, notwithstanding the hardnesse of some places, which in time also vsing the meanes they come to the vnderstanding of. Ex Fulk. annot. 2. Pet. 3.16. Whitacher. quaest. 4. cap. 1.

1 First, that which we maintaine is euident out of the scripture, Deut. 30.11. the commaundement, which I commaund thee, is not hid from thee, nor farre of. And as it foloweth, thou needest not ascend to the heauens, or go be∣yond the sea: the word is neare vnto thee, euen in thy mouth and hart, to do it. argum. Brentij. Ergo the scriptures are plaine. First the Iesuite aunswereth, that it is meant onely of the decalogue and the ten commandements, that they are easie, not of the whole Scripture. As though if the commandements be easie the rest of the scriptures be not likewise, as the Prophets and historicall books being but commētaries and expositions of the decalogues. S. Paule. Rom. 10.6. vnderstandeth this place of the whole doctrine of faith, who better knew the meaning of Moses then the Iesuite.

2 2. Cor. 4.3. If our Gospell be hid, it is to them onely that are lost, Ergo the Scriptures are plaine to the faithfull. The Iesuite aunswereth. S. Paule spea∣keth of the knowledge of Christ, not of the Scriptures. First it is manifest out of the 2. verse, that S. Paule speaketh of that Gospell, which he preached to the Corinthians, which is the same he wrote vnto them: wherefore if the Gos∣pell preached were easie and plaine, why is not the Gospell written by him, I meane the doctrine of faith being the same, which he preached? Secondly if they graunt that the knowledge of Christ is easie, we aske no more: for this is that we say, that the doctrine of faith and saluation is plainly expressed in Scripture.

3 This is the difference betweene the new Testament and the old: the old is compared to a clasped booke. Isay. 29.11. the new to a booke opened. Apoca. 5. the knowledge of Christians farre exceedeth the knowledge of the Iewes: it was lawfull for them to read the scriptures, much more for all Christians. The Iesuite aunswereth that our knowledge is greater then theirs, not in all scrip∣ture, but in the misteries for our redemption onely. We answere, this is all we desire: for if the misterie of saluation and redemption be plainly opened in the scripture, why should not the people be admitted to the reading of the word, to be confirmed in the knowledge of their redemption? who seeth not what sillie aunsweres these be?

4 Augustine thus writeth of this matter, In ijs (inquit) quae aperte in Scrip∣turis osita sunt, inueniuntur ea omnia, quae fidem continent mores{que} viuendi. De do∣ctrin. Christia. lib. 2. cap. 9. The plaine and easie places of scripture conteine all things necessarie vnto faith and good life, Ergo the doctrine of saluation in the scriptures is not hard and difficult, but easie of good Christians to be vnder∣stood.

Page  26

THE SIXT QVESTION CONCERNING the interpretation of Scripture.

THis question doth diuide it selfe into three partes: First concerning the diuerse senses of the scripture. Secondly, to whō the chief authoritie to ex∣pound scripture is committed. Thidly, what meanes must be vsed in the in∣terpretation of scripture.

THE FIRST PART OF THE SIXTH QVE∣stion: of the diuerse senses of Scripture.
The Papistes.

[error 7] THere are two straunge Assertions of our aduersaries cōcerning this mat∣ter. First they affirme that the scripture may haue diuerse senses and mea∣nings in the same place. The sense of the scripture is either literall (say they) & historicall, which is the first & most proper sense; or spirituall, that is an higher sense deriued out of the other, and it is of three kinds, Allegoricall, Tropolo∣gicall, Anagogicall: they shew by particular instance and induction, that the scripture besides the literall sense may haue these also.

The Allegoricall sense is, when besides the plaine historicall and literall meaning, somewhat is signified which by an allegorie is referred vnto Christ or the Church, as Gal. 4. beside the truth of the storie of the bond and free wo∣man, S. Paule applieth it vnto the two Testaments, Ergo one place may haue more senses then one.

The Tropologicall sense is, when as there is somewhat signified appertai∣ning to manners, as Deut. 25. Thou shalt not mussell the mouth of the oxe that treadeth out the corne, this by S. Paule is applied to the Ministers of the Gospell, 1. Cor. 9. Ergo, the scripture hath diuerse senses.

The Anagogicall sense is, whē the place is applied to decipher & set forth the kingdome of heauen and eternall things, as Psal. 94. I sware vnto them, if they should enter into my rest: this is literally vnderstood of the rest in Ca∣naan, & spiritually of life eternall, Ergo many senses: thus reasoneth. Bellarmin. lib. 3. de Scriptur. cap. 3.

The Protestantes.

WE affirme that of one place of scripture there can be but one sense, which we call the literall sense, when as the wordes are either taken properly, or figuratiuely to expresse the thing which is meant: as in this place, the seede of the woman shall breake the Serpents head, the literall sense is of Christ, who should triumph ouer Sathan, though it be spoken in a borowed and figuratiue speach. There can be therefore but one sense, which is the lite∣rall: as for those three kinds, they are not diuerse senses, but diuerse applicatiōs onely and collections out of one and the same sense.

Page  271 It shall appeare by a seuerall induction of all these kindes: In the first example of the Allegoricall sense Galathes 4, the Apostle saith not that there is a double sense, but that it may be allegorically applied, which is histo∣rically set downe. There is then but one sense of the place, part whereof consi∣steth in the storie, part in the allegorie: so that the whole sense is conteined in them both. Concerning the second exāple of the Tropologicall: there is not a twofold sense of that place, but one whole generall sense; that as the mouth of the oxe was not to be musled, so the Minister of the Gospell must be proui∣ded for. Likewise of the Anagogicall kind: it is not one sense to vnderstād the rest of Canaan, an other of the kingdome of God: but there is one whole sense, that as they for their Idolatrie were depriued of the land of promise, so we should take heede lest by our disobedience we lose the hope of the kingdome of heauē. So we cōclude that those are not diuerse senses, but one sense diuersly applied.

2 The literal sense is the onely sense of the place, because out of that sense onely may an argument strongly be framed: wherefore seeing allegories and tropes do not cōclude, they are not the senses of the place. An allegorie or type may be part of the literall sense, and then it concludeth: but when an allegorie is framed beside the literall sense, it concludeth not, and therefore is no part of the sense: as to reason thus, the oxes mouth must not be musled, Ergo the Mini∣ster must be maintained, it foloweth well, because it is part of the sense: but allegories deuised beside the sense proue not, though they may illustrate.

The Papistes.

THeir other assertion is this, that it is lawfull to allegorise scripture both in the old and new Testament. Bellarm. lib. 3. cap. 3. They reason thus. Rhe∣mens. [error 8] annot. Heb. 4. ver. 5. The Apostle applieth the rest of the Sabboth to the e∣ternall rest. Ergo, the like applications of the fathers are lawfull. See annot. Heb. 7.2. the Apostle (say they) findeth great misteries, euen in the very names: Ergo it is lawfull to make allegories.

The Protestantes.

WE say, it is daungerous to make allegories of Scripture without the warrant and direction of Gods spirite: this was the occasion that di∣uerse of the auncient fathers greatly erred: as the Iesuite him selfe reprehēdeth Papias, Iustinus, Lactantius, for allegorising that place Reuel. 20. which made them fall into the error of the Chiliastes, by false interpreting of the thousand yeares there mentioned.

To their argumēts our learned countryman D. Fulk answereth. First, it fo∣loweth not, because it was lawfull for the Apostles gouerned by the spirite to make allegories, that it is therfore lawfull for others. Secondly, whē the fathers or any other writers can be assured of the same spirite, which the holy writers had, and of the like dexteritie in vnderstanding and expounding Scripture, Page  28 they may likewise be bold to make allegories.

Let vs heare what Augustine saith of this matter. Sicut mihi multum errare videntur, qui nullas res gestas aliquid aliud praeter id, quod eo modo gesta sunt, signi∣ficare arbitrantur: ita multum audere, qui prorsus ibi omnia significationib. alle∣goricis inuoluta esse contendunt. As they are much deceiued, which thinke that the stories in the scripture do signifie no other thing, but that which was done: so they are to rash and bold, that would draw all things to allegories, which they read in scripture. Ergo, it is not lawfull for any to inuent allegories of scripture, as it seemeth good to them selues.

THE SECOND PART OF THE SIXTH QVE∣tion to whom the chief authoritie to expound Scripture is committed.
The Papistes.

[error 9] IT was decreed in the Councell of Trent, that scripture should be expoūded, as the Church expoundeth it, and according to the common and consonant cōsent of the fathers, Sect. 4. The Rhemistes say; that the sense of the scriptures must be learned of the fathers and pastors of the Church. Praefat. Sect. 18. If the fathers agree not, the matter is referred to a generall Councell: if there it be not determined, we must haue recourse to the Pope and his Cardinals. The Iesuite dare not referre the matter to the Pope alone to expound scripture, but ioy∣neth the Colledge of Cardinals with him. Bellarm. lib. 3. de script. cap. 3.

1 They obiect that place Deut. 17.9. where the people are commaunded to resorte vnto the Priest or Iudge in doubtfull matters. Ergo, there ought to be a chief and supreme iudge in Ecclesiasticall matters, Bellarm. We aunswere. First, here the ciuill Magistrate and the Iudge are ioyned together, as ver. 12. Wherefore if they will gather hereby, that the Pope must be supreme Iudge in all Ecclesiasticall matters, then the Emperour ought to be as well in ciuill. Secōdly, the text saith, they shal come to the Priests. ver. 9. assigning many, not to one onely Priest. Thirdly, they must iudge according to the law. v. 11. not as they list thē selues. Fourthly, here is no mentiō made of doubts in interpreting scripture, but of controuersies that may fall out betweene man and man, either Ecclesiasticall to be decided by the Priest, or ciuill by the Magistrate. Fiftly, we graunt that in euery country there ought be a supreme and high seate of iudgement for determining of controuersiall matters betweene men: but it foloweth not that there should be a supreme iudge ouer the whole Church es∣pecially in such matters as this concerning the sense of the scriptures, which i not commited to the iudgement of men, neither is any such controuersie na∣med in that palce. ver. 8.

2 Ecclesiastes 12.11. The wisemā cōpareth the wordes of the wise to nayles which are fastned, geuen by one pastor: Ergo the Pope is supreme iudge. We aunswere, the wise men are here vnderstood to be the Pastors and Ministers Page  29 of Gods word, but this one pastor signifieth neither the high Priest in the old law, nor the Pope in the new, but Iesus Christ, the high shepheard for our soules. What great boldnesse is this to attribute that to the Pope, which is onely proper to Christ?

3 They also picke out some places in the new Testament, as Math. 16.19. to thee will I geue the keyes of the kingdome of heauen. Christ saith so to Pe∣ter, Ergo the Pope hath authoritie to expound scripture. We aunswere. First, by the keyes here is meant commission to preach the Gospell, not onely to ex∣pound doubtes. Secōdly, they were geuen to all the Apostles, not to Peter one∣ly, Math. 28. v. 18.19. Thirdly, the Pope is not successor of Peter, no more then any other godly Bishop, nor so much vnlesse he folow Peters steps. So they abuse that place Math. 18.17. he that will not heare the Church &c. Ergo the Bishops and chief pastors must expound the doubt in scriptures. Aunswere. First, our Sauiour speaketh here of the discipline of the Church, of correctiōs and admonitions, not of interpreting scripture, which dependeth not vpō the will & fantacie of Pope, Cardinals, or Popish Councels, but must be tryed by the scriptures them selues. Secondly, we must geue eare to the Church, but with a double condition: we must be sure it is the Church of God, secōdly, we must not heare them, cōtrary to the scriptures, but so long as they do teach the doctrine of Christ.

The Protestants.

WE haue a more compendious way to come to the vnderstanding of the scripture: It were to lōg whē we doubt of any place to stay till we haue the generall consent of the pastors of the Church, or to expect a generall Councell, or go vp to Rome. And it were to much to trouble the Popes graui∣tie with euery questiō: The Lord hath shewed vs a more easie and ready way: see that we neede not ascend to heauen or cōpasse the earth or passe the Alpes: but the word of God is amongest vs, the scriptures them selues and the spirite of God opening our harts do teach vs how to vnderstand them: the interpre∣tation of Scripture is not assigned to any succession of pastors, or tryed to any place or persons. Our arguments folow, some few of them.

1 That onely hath power to geue the sense of Scripture, which doth be∣get vs faith: the spirite onely by the Scriptures begetteth faith. Rom. 10.17. faith commeth of hearing the word, Ergo the spirit of God is the onely inter∣preter of scripture. The proposition also is cleare: for seeing the Scripture is the true sense and meaning therof, if any should geue the sense of the scripture, but that which worketh faith, then vpon him should our faith be grounded. If the Pope therefore geue the sense of Scripture, and our faith ariseth of the Scripture vnderstood, then our faith is builded vpon the Popes sense. argum. Whitach. 2. & 9.

2 The Scriptures cā not be interpreted but by the same spirit, wherewith they were writtē, but that spirite is found no where but in the Scriptures, Ergo.Page  30 The first part the Papistes them selues graunt: the second is thus proued: the spirite of the Apostles is not geuen by secret inspiration, that sauoureth of A∣nabaptisme: where is it thē to be found? whether is it like that S. Peters spirite should be found in the Popes chaire, or in his Epistles? or if they haue S. Pe∣ters spirite, where is S. Paules found but in his writings? Yet it is all one spirite, & appeareth not els where but in the Scriptures: where euery man may finde it as wel as the Pope: the spirituall man iudgeth all things. 1. Cor. 2.15. you haue an oyntment from him that is holy, and you haue knowen all things: and ver. 27. you need not that any mā teach you. By these places it is euident, that eue∣ry faithfull man by the spirite of God may vnderstand the scriptures.

3 The doctrine of the Church must be examined by the Scriptures, Ergo the scriptures are not to stand to the iudgement of the Church. The former part is proued by the example of the Berrheans. Act. 17.11. If they did well in examining Paules doctrine, much more may the decrees of the Pope, Church, Coūcels be examined by the scriptures. But they knew not whether Paule was an Apostle or not▪ therefore they might examine his doctrine, saith the Iesuite. Answere, it is no matter for the person of Paule, they examined his doctrine, which dependeth not vpon the person. Secondly, they could not be ignoraunt of his Apostleship, who was famous throughout the Churches. Thirdly, they doubted onely whether Paul was an Apostle, but we are sure the Pope is none, neither successor of any Apostle, but very Antichrist, Ergo we haue more iust cause to examine his decrees.

4 Lastly, let Augustine speake: Nouit charitas vestra omnes nos vnum ma∣gistrum habere, & sub illo condiscipulos esse, nec ideo magistri sumus, quia de supe∣riore loco loquimur vobis, sed magister est omnium, qui habitat in nobis omnib. You know brethren (saith he) that we are all felow scholers vnder one maister, and though we speake to you out of an higher place, yet are we not your master, he is the teacher and master of vs all that dwelleth in our harts. Ergo the spirite of God speaking in the scriptures is the chief and best interpreter thereof.

THE THIRD PART OF THE SIXTH QVE∣stion: concerning the meanes or methode to be vsed in interpreting of Scripture.
The Papistes.

[error 10] OVr aduersaries prescribe this methode and course to be takē in expoun∣ding of scripture, which consisteth in foure rules: the generall peactise of the Church, the consonant interpretation of the fathers, the decrees of generall Councels, lastly the rule of faith, consisting partly of the scriptures, partly of traditions vnwrittē, Stapleton. Cōcerning the three first, we haue already tou∣ched them in part: they appeare to be insufficient. First, the Councels and fa∣thers he made chief interpreters of Scripture before, and now they are but meanes: what other chief iudge then is there to vse these meanes? surely none Page  31 but the scriptures. Secondly, these meanes are most vncertaine, the practise of the Church is often changed, fathers agree not in their expositiōs, and Coun∣cels can not alwayes be had.

Concerning the rule of faith consisting of vnwritten verities: he groundeth it falsely vpon that place. Rom. 12.6. let vs prophecie according to the rule of faith, and Gal. 6.16. as many as walke according to this rule. This rule was a certaine platforme of Religion, geuen by the Apostles before the Scriptures were written, according to the which (say they) the Scriptures were afterward compiled by the Apostles. Rhemens. in Rom. 12.6. Answere, S. Paul meaneth no other rule, but that which is set downe in his writings, no other forme of do∣ctrine but that conteined in his Epistles, as in the 6. to the Galathians, spea∣king of this rule, he alludeth to the former verse, where he saith he reioyced in nothing but in the Crosse of Christ: his rule therfore is to receiue Christ one∣ly without the ceremonies or workes of the law: against the which heresie he disputeth in the whole Epistle. But of all other it is a great blasphemie to say that the Apostles set downe the Scriptures by a rule, as though the spirite of God, by whom they spake, had neede of any such direction.

The Protestantes.

WHen we say that the scriptures must expound them selues, our mea∣ning is, that by certaine compendious and ready meanes, we should labour to vnderstand the scriptures by them selues: the meanes are especially these foure. First, to haue recourse to the originall toung, as in the old Testa∣ment to the Hebrue, in the new to the Greeke: as 1. Tim. 2.15. through bearing of children they shalbe saued, if they continue in faith and loue: In the English it is doubtfull, whether this clause, if they continue in faith, be referred to chil∣dren, or to those that beare them: but read the Greeke and the doubt is remo∣ued: for bearing of children is all one word in the originall 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, so that it must needes be vnderstood of the women: for this word 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉▪ bearing of children is in the singular number, that which foloweth of the plurall, and it is but an action, not a person, so that it should be improperly sayd, if they continue▪ that is, in bearing of children.

Stapleton obiecteth against this meane: that it is not now needefull, seeing there is a perfect and absolute translatiō authorised by the Councell of Trent, he meaneth the vulgare Latin. We answere. First, it is no perfect but an erro∣nious translation, and verie corrupt. Secondly, if it were neuer so perfect, yet for more certaintie, it is profitable to search the originall: euery man will trust his owne skill, rather then another mans. Thirdly, the Councell did fondly in authorising an old blind translation, before the authenticall copies of the He∣brue and Greeke.

2 Secondly, the scope of the place, the circumstance of it, with that which goeth before, and commeth after must, be wayghed, which will bring great light to the place we haue in hand: an example we haue 1. Pet. 4.8. loue coue∣reth Page  32 multitude of sinnes: the Papistes gather out of these words, that loue doth iustifie vs before God and taketh away our sinnes: but by the circunstance of the place, the Apostole saying immediatly before: haue feruent loue among you, it is euident he vnderstandeth brotherly loue amōgest our selues, where∣by faultes are buried, forgeuen, and forgotten.

Stapleton obiecteth: that this is but an vncertaine way, and many times fay∣leth: for the scripture passeth many times from one matter and argument to another: how then can it helpe to consider the circumstance of the place be∣ing of a diuerse matter? We answere, we say not that any of these meanes ser∣ueth for euery place, but when one fayleth, to vse another: when the circum∣stance helpeth not, to runne to the originall, if there we find, no succour to cō∣pare places together, and when we may, to vse them all, or the most.

3 Thirdly the conference of places is very profitable, as Iames. 2.21. A∣braham was iustified by workes, compare it with that place Rom. 4.2. there S. Paule saith flatly that Abraham was not iustified by workes: Wherfore see∣ing one Apostle is not contrary to the other: we must needs gather, that this word iustified is diuersly taken, Paule saith that Abraham was not iustified that is, made righteous before God by his workes. Iames saith he was iusti∣fied, that is declared to be iust before men, and so Thom. Aquinas expoun∣deth it.

Stapleton obiecteth, that this meanes in cōparing of places is of it selfe ma∣ny times of smal force. Answere, as though we affirme that these meanes must be vsed asunder, and not rather ioyntly together, and where one fayleth, ano∣ther to helpe. Secondly, some things are found but once in the scriptures. Aun∣swere, they are then either very plaine, or not greatly necessarie. Thirdly, here∣tikes haue erred in comparing of Scripture. Answere, they compared them not diligently, nor with a syncere minde, but corruptly and negligently.

4 The fourth rule is the analogie and proportion of faith, which is no∣thing els but the summe & grounds of Religiō gathered out of scripture, such as are conteined in the Creede, the Lordes Prayer, the ten Commaundements, and in our whole Catechisme. We must take heede, that in the interpretation of Scripture we swarue not from this rule of faith, nor impugne any principle of Religion. Wherefore the Papistes interpretation of those wordes of Christ we do reiect. Hoc est corpus meum, this is my body: who would haue the verie flesh of Christ present in the Sacrament: for this is against the article of the Creede, that Christ is ascended into heauen, and there sitteth till his comming againe in iudgement.

Concerning these meanes, thus writeth Augustine. Rarissime inuenitur am∣biguitas in verbis proprijs, quam non aut circumstantia ipsa sermonis qua cognosci∣tur Scripturarum intentio, aut interpretum collatio, aut praecedentes soluat inspectio, de doctrin. Christ. lib. 3.4. There is almost no ambiguitie in any word proper∣ly vsed (that is not metaphoricall or borrowed) which may not either by the circumstance of the place, the conference and comparing of interpreters, or Page  33 by looking into the originals, easily be taken away. Augustine we see appro∣ueth this methode, though our aduersaries like it not.

Besides these, prayer must be vsed before we enterprise any thing, that the Lord would direct vs. And they which cā not so easily take this course, which is prescribed, shall do well to seeke helpe of learned and godly expositors, or to consult with their Pastors and Ministers. Ex Whitacher. quaest. 5. cap. 9.

THE SEVENTH QVESTION: CONCERNING the perfection and sufficiencie of Scripture.

THis question is deuided into three parts. First, whether the Scriptures be absolutely necessary. Secōdly, whether they be sufficient without vnwrit∣ten traditions. Thirdly, whether there be any traditions of faith and manners beside the Scriptures.

THE FIRST PART OF THE NE∣cessitie of the Scriptures.
The Papistes.

THe Iesuite laboureth to proue, that the Scriptures are not simply necessa∣rie: [error 11] which we denie not, for meate is not simply necessarie, for God may preserue man without: so in respect of God nothing is simply necessarie: God is not necessarily tyed to vse this or that meanes: but his argumentes do tend to this end, to shew that the scriptures are not necessarie at all, and may be spa∣red in the Church (so saith Petrus a Soto) the Scripture was not alway extant, and it is not necessarie vnto faith: And the Scripture it not now so necessarie since Christ, as it was afore. Tilman. de verbo Dei error. 17.

1 There was no Scripture from Adam to Moses, for the space of two thou∣sand yeares, and yet true Religion was kept and continued, and why might not true Religiō be as well preserued a 1500. yeare after Christ without scrip∣ture, as afore.

We answere: It foloweth not, because in times past God taught his church by a liuelie voyce, that the written word is not necessarie now: for the Lord saw it good, that his word should be left in writing, that we might haue a cer∣taine rule of our faith in this corrupt and sinfull age. And what els is this, but to cōtroll the wisedome of God, saying it is not necessarie or needfull for the Church, which the Lord saw to be needfull: for if the Lord had thought it as good for vs to be taught without Scripture, as in that simple and innocēt age of the world (I meane innocent in respect of vs) he would not haue moued and stirred vp his Apostles to write.

2 After the time of Moses, when the law was written, yet there were ma∣ny that feared God amongest the Gentiles, which had not the Scriptures, as Iob, and the other his friends, Ergo the scripture not necessarie. The Iewes also Page  34 them selues vsed traditions more then Scriptures, as Psal. 44. v. 1.2. the fathers did report the workes of God to their children: by the negligence also of the Priests the law was lost, as 2. King. 22. we read that the volume of the law was found, which had bene missing a long time.

We answere. First, euē the faithfull amōgest the Gētiles did read the scrip∣ture, as the Eunuke Act. 8. had the booke of the Prophet Isay. Secondly, the Iewes declared the workes of God vnto their children, but the same were also written, as how the heathen were cast out before them, and of their deliue∣rāce out of Egypt: those were the things they heard of their fathers, as we read Psal. 44. & 78. yet all these things are recorded in the bookes of Moses. Third∣ly, what though the Priests were negligent in preseruing the scriptures, it is no good argument to proue that therefore they are not necessarie, neither was the whole booke of the law lost, but either Moses owne manuscript, or the booke of Deuteronomie. Yet he hath proued nothing.

3 The Church after Christ wanted the Scriptures many yeares, Ergo they are not necessarie.

We aunswere, it is a great vntruth: for the old Testamēt the Church could not be without, and the new Testament was written not long after in the age of the Apostles: whose liuely voyce and preachings were vnto them, as their writings are now to vs. See now, what strong arguments they bring: the scrip∣tures were not necessary in the time of the Patriarkes, when God taught them by his owne voyce, they were not necessarie in the time of the Prophetes and Apostles, when they had mē inspired of God to teach them, Ergo they are not now necessarie, when neither God teacheth from heauen, neither haue we any Prophetes or Apostles to instruct vs by heauenly reuelations: nay rather be∣cause they were not necessarie then, when they had other effectuall meanes, notwithstanding they are necessarie now, seeing there is no other way of in∣struction left vnto vs.

The Protestantes.

THat the scriptures are necessarie for the people of God, the reading, prea∣ching, and vnderstanding whereof is the onely and ordinarie meanes to beget faith in vs, we thus proue out of the Scriptures them selues.

1 The scriptures conteine necessarie knowledge to saluation, which can not be learned but out of the scripture, Ergo they are necessarie. The know∣ledge of the law is necessarie, but that onely is deriued from the Scripture: as the Apostle witnesseth Rom. 7.7. he had not knowen lust to be sinne, vnlesse the law had said, thou shalt not lust. And if the right knowledge of the law is not learned, but out of the scripture: much more the knowledge of the Gospel, is more high and mysticall, and more straunge vnto our nature.

2 That whereby we are kept frō error and doubtfulnes in matters of faith is necessarie: but this is performed by the scripture, Ergo. First the Scripture keepeth vs from error. Math. 22.29. ye erre not knowing the scriptures (saith Page  35 our Sauiour). The ignoraunce of scripture was cause of their error. Secondly, if our knowledge were onely builded vpon tradition without scripture, we should be doubtfull and vncertaine of the truth, so S. Luke saith in his Preface to Theophilus: I haue written (saith he) that thou mightest be certaine of those things, whereof thou hast bene instructed: Hence we conclude, that although we might know the truth without scripture, as Theophilus did, yet we can not know it certainlie without.

3 If the scriptures be not necessarie, then we may be without them, but this can not be, Ergo the scriptures can not be spared: for then God had done a needlesse and superfluous worke in stirring vp the Prophets and Apostles to write. S. Paule saith, that what soeuer is writtē, is written for our learning, that through patience and cōsolation of the scriptures we might haue hope. Rom. 15.4. The Lord saw in wisedome that his people could not be without the Scriptures, which are necessarie for their learning, for their comfort, and to strengthen their hope: how then dare our aduersaries say, that the scriptures are not necessarie, seeing these things wrought in vs by the scriptures, know∣ledge, consolation, hope, are most necessarie.

4 Let Augustine now put in his verdict: Illud credo, quod etiā hinc diuinorū eloquiorum clarissima authoritas esset, si homo illud sine dispendio salutis ignorare non posset. de peccator. merit. & remiss. lib. 2.36. I thinke (saith he) that euen con∣cerning this matter (speaking of the originall or beginning of the soule) the Scriptures would not haue bene silent, if we might not safelie be ignoraunt of this matter, without daunger of saluation, Ergo whatsoeuer is necessarie to sal∣uatiō, is onely to be found in scripture (for other matters there not expressed, there in no daunger in not knowing them) therfore the Scriptures by this Fa∣thers iudgement are most necessary.

THE SECOND PART OF THE SEVENTH question, of the sufficiencie of Scripture.
The Papistes.

THey do straungely affirme, that the Scriptures conteine not all things ne∣cessarie [error 12] to be knowen cōcerning faith and manners, and that they are not sufficient without traditions. Bellarm. cap. 3.4. Lindanus a Papist saith, that the scriptures conteine not all things necessarie to saluation. Andradius, that their approued traditions are of equall authoritie with the Scripture▪ Ex Tilman. de verbo error. 2.

1 First, the Iesuite thus reasoneth against the sufficiencie of Scripture. There are diuerse bookes of canonicall Scripture lost and perished, Ergo that part of canonical scripture, which remaineth is not sufficiēt: that much is lost, he thus proueth: 1. Chron. cap. vlt. mention is made of the bookes of Nathan & Gad. 2. Chron. 9. of the bookes of Ahiiah & Ieedo: & in the new Testamēt. Col. 4. of the Epistle of S. Paule to the Laodiceans: all those bookes are lost.

Page  36We aunswere. First, we denie not, but that some bookes are now wanting, which were part of canonicall scripture, & yet that which remaineth is suffi∣ciēt: as some of Solomōs bookes are perished, which he wrote of herbes & plāts, and many of his Prouerbes: the Lord saw that they were not so greatly neces∣sarie for vs to saluation. Secondly, there is not so much wanting, as the Iesuite would beare vs in hād, for the books of the Prophets which he nameth, are the same with the bookes of the Chronicles & of the Kings, which no doubt were writtē by those Prophetes. And as for the Epistle of S. Paule to the Laodiceās, there was neuer any such: the text is, written from the Laodiceans, it was the Epistle rather of the Laodiceans to S. Paule, vnto the which he partly maketh aunswere in the Epistle to the Colossians, and therefore he would haue it read also in their Church.

2 If the Apostles had any such meaning to contriue in the scriptures the summe of faith and all necessarie knowledge, it is very like Christ would haue geuen them some expresse commaundement so to do: but we read not of any such strict commaundement, Ergo they had no such purpose. Bellarmine.

We aunswere. First, they them selues dare not denie, but that the Apostles wrote by the instinct of the spirite: what is that els, but the commaundement of God? Actes. 16.6. Paule was forbidden of the holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia: and ver. 10. when he had seene a vision of a man of Macedonia appearing vnto him: the Apostle concludeth that they were called of God: wherefore what they did by the secret mouing of the spirite, was done at the cōmaundement of God. Secondly, Apocal. Iohn is biddē to write that which he saw: no doubt the other Apostles had the like cōmaundement.

3 There are many points, which we ought in no wise to be ignoraunt of, which the scriptures speake either obscurelie of, or not at all.

First, these things are obscurely and doubtfully set downe in Scripture, the equalitie of the persons in Trinitie, the proceeding of the holy Ghost, from the Father and the Sonne, the doctrine of originall sinne.

We aunswere. First, if these things be found at all in the Scriptures, it is suf∣ficient concerning the question we haue in hand. Secondly, the Scripture doth manifestly declare the truth in all those points, the equalitie of the persons is directly proued. 1. Iohn. 5.7. the procession of the spirite. Iohn. 15.26. the spirit is there said to be sent frō the Father & the Sonne. And Ioh. 14.26. Original sinne is described plainly by the Apostle. Rom. 5.12. though the name be not found in Scripture.

Secondly, there are diuerse things necessarie to be knowen, not at all decla∣red in Scripture. First, as that Marie continued a perpetuall Virgine. We answere, the Scripture saith euery where she was a Virgine, neither maketh mention of any children she had, and therefore out of the Scripture we ga∣ther, that she continued. Secondly, Basile saith that it is sufficient to know she was a Virgine before the birth of Christ. Secondly, to know that the Pasch or Easter must be kept vpon the Lordes day is necessarie. Aunswere, there is Page  37 no such necessiitie in it to saluation: neither needed the Church so much to haue contended about it in times past: these are the mightie weapons, which our aduersaries vse.

The Protestantes.

WE do not affirme, as our aduersaries charge vs, that all things necessa∣rie to saluation, are expressely conteined in scripture, that is, in so ma∣ny words: but this we hold, that all things, which are necessarily to be knowen of vs, are either expresly declared in Scripture, or necessarily concluded out of Scripture, and so conteined in them. We also graunt, that it was not Gospell onely which was written, but all that Christ and his Apostles taught by liue∣ly voyce: the whole summe whereof and substaunce is conteined in the writ∣ten word: and so we conclude, that nothing necessarie to saluation either con∣cerning faith or manners, is els where to be found but in the holy Scriptures.

1 S. Paule saith: if we, or an Aungell preach vnto you otherwise then that which we haue preached, let him be accursed, Ergo the Scripture conteineth all things necessarie.

First, the Iesuite aunswereth, that S. Paule speaketh not onely of his wri∣tings, but also of his preachings which were not written.

We aunswere, that the summe of all S. Paules preachings is conteined in his Epistles and other holy writings: for S. Paule confirmed his doctrine out of the scriptures, as Act. 17.10. the Berrheans examined his doctrine by the scrip∣tures, and found it to be consonant, and to agree in all things.

Secondly, he condēneth, those which preach any thing, not besides or other∣wise, but contrarie: and therefore not any other doctrine besides Scripture is forbidden, but that which is contrarie. We aunswere, whatsoeuer is imposed as necessarie to saluation beside the Scripture, praeter Scripturas, is also contra Scripturas, contrarie to Scripture, as are all Popish traditions, which they lay a necessitie vpon, both beside and contrarie to Scripture. Neither did those false Apostles against whom S. Paule writeth so much, bring in another or cōtrary Gospell, as the Apostle saith ver. 7. as they did labour to corrupt and peruert that Gospel, which S. Paul taught. Therfore all traditiōs whether praeter, or cō∣tra, beside or contrarie to Scripture, are notablie by this place ouerthrowen.

2 Iohn. 20.31. these things are written, that ye might beleeue that Iesus Christ is the sonne of God, & that in beleeuing ye might haue life through his name, Ergo the Scriptures conteine all things necessarie to saluation: for they suffise to worke in vs faith, and faith bringeth vs to eternall life.

First, Bellarmine aunswereth, that Iohn speaketh onely of that which he had written. Aunswere. If this one Apostles writings were able to worke faith, the whole body of Scripture much more: but he rather speaketh of all other holy writings, of the Apostles, for he was the suruiuer of them all, & acknow∣ledged their writings and approued them. Secōdly (saith he) the Apostle saith not that those writings onely suffise, but they are profitable, and referred to Page  38 this end to worke faith. Aunswere. The Scripture is not one of the meanes, but the sole, whole, and onely meanes: for if they perfectly worke faith, what neede any other helpes: but the first is true, for they doe beget in vs a perfect faith, which shall bring vs to eternall life, Ergo they are the onely meanes of faith.

3 The whole Scripture (saith S. Paule) is profitable to teach, to improue, to correct, and instruct in righteousnesse. 2. Tim. 3.16. Ergo it conteineth all things necessarie: for what els is requisite besides these foure, to teach the right faith, improue error, to instruct in righteousnes and vertue, & to correct vice?

First they aunswere, the Apostle meaneth as well euery booke of Scrip∣ture, as the whole, euery part therfore hath this perfection as well as the whole. But you will not say, that euery booke conteineth all things necessarie to sal∣uation: therefore this perfection is not so to be taken.

We aunswere. First, S. Paule vnderstandeth the body of Scripture as ver. 15. thou hast knowen the Scriptures, he speaketh of them all. Secondly, if euery part had these vtilities, you might as well conclude that euery word and silla∣ble hath them, for they are parts of Scripture. Thirdly, it appeareth by these foure great vtilities here set downe, that the Apostle meaneth not any part or partes of Scripture, but the whole, for euery part of Scripture is not profitable for all these endes, but the whole.

Secōdly, they say it foloweth not: the Scripture is profitable, therfore suffi∣cient, they also graunt it is profitable. Aunswere, but we conclude out of S. Paule, that the Scripture is not onely profitable, but sufficient, as it foloweth v. 17. that the man of God may be absolute, perfectly instructed to euery good worke. If then the scriptures are able perfectly to instruct vs, then are they suf∣ficient, then neede we no other helpes.

4 Lastly, Augustine thus writeth, in Psal. 66. Ne putetis (saith he) ex alijs Scripturis petendum, quod forte hic deest. Thinke not (saith he) that it is to be found in any other writings if it be not in Scripture. And in another place: In Euangelio quaeramus, nam si ibi non inuenimus, vbi inueniemus? Let vs (saith he) seeke to be resolued in the Gospell, if we finde not there, where shall we find it? Ergo by the iudgemēt of Augustine there is no truth necessary to be knowen, which is not to be found in the Scripture.

THE THIRD PART OF THE SEVENTH question: whether there be any traditions, beside Scripture concerning faith and manners.
The Papistes.

[error 13] THey vnderstand by this word tradition, doctrine, preceptes, and cere∣monies, with other vsages of the Church, which are not written in the scriptures. They do not say that all their traditiōs are necessary, but they make diuerse kindes of them: some are vniuersall, obserued in the whole Church, Page  39 some particular: some are free, some necessarie, some are Apostolicall, inuen∣ted by the Apostles, some Ecclesiasticall by the Church: so thus they conclude: all traditions decreed in Councels, and iudged Apostolicall: & whatsoeuer the Church of Rome receiueth as Apostolicall, are not to be doubted, but to be Apostolicall indeed. Secondly, all Apostolicall traditions are of equall autho∣ritie with the writings of the Apostles. Bellarm. lib. 4. cap. 2. & 9. and they are that part of the word of God which is vnwritten, as well as the scriptures are that part which is written: Let vs see what arguments they bring for these tra∣ditions.

1 They geue an instance of certaine traditiōs, as the Baptisme of infants, and the not rebaptising of those, which were before Baptised by heretikes: We aunswere, these two customes of the Church are grounded vpon scrip∣ture: for as childrē were in the time of the law Circūcised, so are they now vn∣der the Gospell Baptised: and that promise Gene. 17. I will be thy God, and the God of thy seede, as it belonged to them and their children, so doth it apper∣taine to vs and our children.

Concerning the other point, that they whom heretikes haue once Baptised, ought not to be Baptised againe: S. Augustine doth proue it out of the scrip∣ture. Ephe. 4. there is one Faith, one Baptisme, Ergo not to be repeated.

But now they come in with other traditions, as the Lenton fast, which they vse most fondly and superstitiously: the eight Ecclesiasticall orders, Bishops, Prists, Deacōs, Subdeacons, Acolythistes, Readers, Exorcistes, Doore-keepers, the worshipping of Images, with many other: these they would face vs out to be Apostolical traditions, and to haue bene vniuersally obserued, which are but their vayne brags, and Thrasonicall crakes: they shall neuer proue them vniuersall, much lesse Apostolicall: And because they finde no scripture to e∣stablish these their superstitious fantasies by, they flye vnto tradition, which is their onely hauen, where they hope to finde succour: but all in vayne. Bellarm. lib. 4. cap. 9. Consul. Whitacher. quaest. 6. cap. 4.

2 They proceede and alledge scripture for their traditions, as that place Iohn. 16.12. I haue many things to say, but you can not beare them now, Ergo say they, there are many traditions not written.

We aunswere. First, it foloweth not, because Christ declared not all things at that time, that therefore he kept them from his Apostles all together. Nay whatsoeuer afterwardes the Apostles learned of the spirite of God, they had heard before of Christ, for it was the office of the spirite, but to put them in remembrance of Christes sayings. Iohn. 14.26. which they had heard before, but vnderstood them not, and so forgat them. Wherefore these things, which Christ forbeareth to speake, are the same things, which are cōteined in the A∣postles writings. Secondly, if there were other matters, which Christ vttered not, how foloweth it, nay what great presumptiō is it to say, that those trifles and apish toyes, which the Papistes vse in their Idolatrous sacrifice, and their other beggarly ceremonies (which boyes may well laugh at) are those profoūd Page  40 matters, which the Apostles were not then able to conceiue.

3 That of all other, they take to be an inuincible place. 2. Thess. 2.15. keepe the instructions or traditions, which ye haue bene taught either by word, or by Epistle, Ergo there are traditions besides scripture.

We aunswere: when S. Paule wrote this Epistle, all the scriptures were not writtē: wherefore besides these two short Epistles, which do not conteine the summe of the Gospell, nor all necessarie preceptes, he by his preaching sup∣plied, what was wanting, and so declared vnto them the whole mysterie of the Gospell, as he saith. 1. Thess. 2.2. these he calleth his traditions, because yet he had not written his other Epistles, wherein those instructions and traditions are conteined. This then is but a weake argument: the Thessalonians had o∣ther instructiōs and traditions beside the two Epistles writtē vnto them, Ergo they had other traditiōs, beside all the writings of S. Paule and the other Apo∣stles: this is their mayne and waightie argument.

The Protestantes.

FIrst, we graunt, that all things are not written which our Sauiour Christ and the Apostles taught, and that it was the Gospell, which they preached, as well as this which is written: yet in substance they preached the same Gos∣pell, which now is expressed in the scripture: neither was there any necessarie precept deliuered in their Sermons, which is not now to be found in the scrip∣tures. Secondly, we denie not but there were certaine rites and orders ordai∣ned by the Apostles in diuerse churches, which were not cōmitted to writing, because they were not to continue and endure for euer in the Church: as that precept Act. 16. that the Gentiles should abstaine from strangled, and from bloud. Thirdly, we also graunt that the Church may vse externall rites and orders either left by tradition, or ordained by the Church for decencie and comelynesse, and tending to edification. But we constantly affirme, that there are no traditions in the Church of God necessarie to saluation beside scripture: wherein all things are conteined necessarie to saluation, both con∣cerning faith and manners.

1 It is not lawfull, as to take ought from the word of God, so to adde any thing vnto it. Deut. 12.32. Apocal. 22.18. But they which bring in traditiōs ne∣cessarie beside the scriptures, do adde vnto them, Ergo.

To the proposition the Iesuite aunswereth, that all addition to the word of God is not forbidden, for the Prophets did write after Moses, & the Apostles after the Euangelistes. We aunswere: that those holy men had authoritie from God to compile scripture, if the Papistes haue the like Apostolike authori∣tie for their traditions, let them shew it, and we will beleeue them. Secondly, the Prophetes did but explane Moses, and expound the law, and the Apo∣stles did as it were set forth their Commentaries vpon the Gospell: this there∣fore was no addition, because they did not derogate from the perfection of the scriptures any way.

To the assumptiō they aunswere, that their traditions are but expositiōs of Page  41 Scripture. We aunswere, their traditions are cleane contrarie to Scripture, as the worshipping of Images, and the sacrifice of their Masse: and they adde to Scripture, making it vnperfect, saying, it doth not conteine all things neces∣sarie to saluation. Wherefore they can not escape that curse, which they runne into that adde to the word of God.

2 All traditions among the Iewes besides the law were condemned Math. 15.3. Ergo all vnwritten traditions now must be abolished. The Iesuite aunswereth. First, Christ condemned not the auncient traditions of Moses, but those which were newly and lately inuented. Aunswere, first the Scrip∣ture maketh no mention of any such traditions of Moses: Christ biddeth them search the Scriptures, not runne vnto traditions. Secondly, these see∣med to be auncient traditions, bearing the name of Elders traditions, and they were in great authoritie amongest, the Iewes: most like because of some long continuance.

Secondly (saith he) Christ findeth fault with wicked and impious traditions. Aunswere. First, their traditions were not openly and plainly euill and perni∣cious, but had some shew of holynesse, as the washing of pots, and tables, and beds. I would the Papists did not here take thē selues by the nose, whose tradi∣tions come nearer to open impietie, and blasphemie, then theirs did. Secondly, Christ in opposing the Scripture against traditions, therein condemneth all traditions not written, besides the Scripture.

3 If Paule preaching the whole Gospell. Act. 20.27. did say none other things then Moses and the Prophetes, then all things necessarie to saluation are conteined in the Scriptures. For it can not be said to be a whole and perfite Gospell, if any thing necessarie to saluation be wanting. But Paule preached nothing, but out of Moses and the Prophetes. Act. 26.22. Ergo much more now is the Scripture a perfect rule of faith: we hauing beside Moses and the Pro∣phetes, the holy writings of the Euangelistes and Apostles.

4 Last of all, although we might multiplie many arguments, but these I trust, strongly concluding out of Scripture, may serue as a sufficient bulwarke against all Popish paper▪ bullets. Let vs heare in the knitting vp the iudge∣ment of Augustine. In his rebus inquit, in quib nihil certi statuit Scriptura, mos populi Dei, vel instituta maiorum, pro lege tenenda. Epist. 86. In all those things (saith he) speaking of externall rules, and ceremonies, of the which we haue no certaine rule out of Scripture, the custome of the people of God, and the godly constitutions of our forefathers must stand for a law: but concer∣ning matters of faith and good maners the Scriptures do giue certaine rules: as in another place: In ijs quae aperte in Scriptura posita sunt, inueniuntur illa omnia, quae continent fidem, moresque viuendi, De doctrin. Christian. 2.9. all things appertaining to faith, and the rule of life, are plainlie expressed in the Scripture, Ergo by the sentence of Augustine, traditions besides scrip∣ture haue nothing to do with the doctrine of faith and manners, but do con∣sist onely in externall rites and customes of the Church.

Page  42


HAuing now finished the questions betweene our aduersaries and vs, concerning the Scriptures, and word of God, which all do belong to the Propheticall office of Christ: in the next place such controuersies are to be handled as do concerne the King∣ly office of Christ. And seeing the Church of Christ is his king∣dome, where he ruleth and raigneth, we must intreat of the Church: and first in generall of the whole, and in speciall of the partes and members. This present controuersie concerning the Church in generall stan∣deth vpon fiue principall questions.

1 Of the definition of the Catholike Church: two partes of the question. First, whether wicked men and infidels, be true members of the Church. Se∣condly, whether the Catholike Church be inuisible.

2 Whether the Catholike Church may erre, and whether the visible Church may fayle vpon earth.

3 Concerning the true notes and markes of the Church.

4 Of the authoritie of the Church: two partes. First, whether the Church haue authoritie in matters of faith beside the Scriptures, and whether we ought to beleeue in the Church. Secondly, concerning the ceremonies of the Church.

5 Whether the Church of Rome be the true Church: two partes. First, whether it be the Catholike Church. Secondly, whether the Church of Rome be a true visible Church: of these now in their place and order.

THE FIRST QVESTION, OF THE definition of the Catholike Church.

The Papistes.

THe Catholike Church (say they) is a visible companie of men professing the same faith and Religion, and acknowledging the Bishop of Rome to be their chief pastor, and the Vicare of Christ vpon earth. Bellarmin. de Eccles. Lib. 3. cap. 2. Canisius capit. de praecept. Eccles. articul. 9. Lindanus. lib. 4. cap. 84.

The Protestantes.

THe Catholike and vniuersall Church is the inuisible cōpanie of the faith∣full elected and chosen to eternall life. Iohn. 10.16. A particular Church is a member of the vniuersall and Catholike Church, and it is a visible companie and congregation of men, amongest whom the pure word of God is preached, and the Sacramentes rightly administred: in the which visible congregation, Page  43 there may be and are many hypocrites, euill and vnfaithfull men found, and shalbe to the end of the world. Ex Amand. Polano. So then betweene the vni∣uersall and particular Church, there is a treble difference. First, the one is dis∣persed ouer all the world, the other in some one country, citie or any certaine place. Secondly, the vniuersall consisteth onely of the elect, the particular both of good and bad. Thirdly, the Catholike is inuisible, the other is visible and to be seene.

The question betweene vs and our aduersaries, is about the vniuersall Catholike Church, which they do falsly define in three points. First, they hold that wicked men are true members of the Catholike Church. Secondly, they al∣low not this distinctiō of the Church visible and inuisible, but do affirme that the Catholike Church is visible. Thirdly, they make the Catholike Church to be in subiection to the Bishop of Rome. Concerning this last point, it belon∣geth to the controuersie of the Bishop of Rome, and therefore we will not touch it in this place. The other two are now to be handled in this question as two partes thereof.

THE FIRST PART OF THIS FIRST question, whether wicked men and infidels may be true members of the Church.
The Papistes.

THey affirme that not onely the predestinate, but euē reprobates also may belong vnto the Church, and be true members thereof. Bellarmin. Lib. 3. de [error 14] Eccles. cap. 7. Nay they denie that the elect which are vnborne, and not yet cal∣led, do appertaine to the Church of Christ. Rhemistes. annot. in. 1. Tim. 3. Sect. 10. This then is generally their opinion, that there is no internal grace or ver∣tue required in the mēbers of the Church, but onely the externall and publike outward profession. Bellarmin. cap. 2. And therefore they doubt not to say that euen wicked men and reprobates remaining in the publike profession of the Church, are true members of the body of Christ. Rhemistes. annot. in Iohan. 15. Sect. 1.

1 They first alledge certaine places of Scripture, as Math. 3. the Church is compared to a barne floore, where there is both chaff and corne. Math. 13. to a net cast into the sea, where all manner of fish are gathered together. 2. Tim. 2. to a house, wherein there be vessels of honor and dishonor, Ergo both good & bad are members of the Church. Bellarmin. cap. 7. lib. 3.

We aunswere. All these places must be vnderstood of the visible Church: which is knowen by the publike preaching of the word, and therefore Math. 3. compared to a fanne, and Math. 13. to a draw net, the Apostles, pastors and teachers are the fisher men. Wherefore we denie not but that wicked men may be in the Church, but not of it: yea they may be members of the visible Church for a time, but can not be truly ingraffed into the body of Christ. Page  44Fulk. annot. Iohan. 15. Sect. 1.

2 The Church (say they) is compared to a body. 1. Cor. 12. as in the body there are some partes, which haue neither sense nor life: so in the Church there are some mēbers, which haue neither faith nor charitie, which is the life of the Church, Ergo wicked men may be right members of the Church. Bellarm. cap. 10. there may be also some fruitlesse braūches in the vine, and so euill men may be members of Christ. Rhemist. annot. 15. Iohan. 1. euery braunch not bearing fruit in me shalbe cast forth, Ergo there may be fruitlesse braūches in Christ.

We answere to the first, who would haue said, as the Iesuite doth, that there are partes in the body, that receiue neither life nor sense of the body: doth he meane the nayles and heares, as he seemeth to geue instance in the end of the Chapter: but they are no partes of the body but excrements: he is so deepe in his sophistrie, that he hath forgotten Philosophie: and yet they receiue some gift from the body, for they grow & encrease, but the wicked receiue no grace at all from the Church. The Rhemistes yet are more reasonable, that say the wicked in the church, are as ill humors and superfluous excrements in the bo∣dy, rather then liuely partes therof. 1. Iohan. 2. Sect. 10.

To the second, is a dead bow or a braunch, I pray you, any part of the tree? I thinke not: the tree can not conueniently spare any one of the partes therof: but the dead partes are hurtfull and combersome, and it doth the tree good to cut them of. But that they haue preuented vs, we would haue vsed no better argument against them, then this drawen from the resemblance of a mans bo∣dy: for as what is in the body receiuing no life nor power from the body is not properly a part of the body, howsoeuer it seeme to be ioyned to the body: so the wicked although they be in the outward face of the Church, yet be∣cause they are not partakers of the spirituall life thereof by Christ, are not truly to be iudged members of it.

3 If wicked men should not be right members of the Church, but the faithfull and predestinate, we should be vncertaine which is the true Church, which is not to be admitted, because the whole doctrine, and all the principles of Religion do depend of the testimonie of the Church. Bellarm. lib. 2. cap. 10.

We aunswere. First, although it is necessarie that the true Church should be certainly knowen, yet not for that cause, which the Iesuite pretendeth: for the Religion of Christians is grounded vpon the Scriptures, and although the true Church doth geue a notable testimonie thereunto, yet doth not our faith depend vpon their witnesse, testimonie, or allowance. Secondly, the true visi∣ble Church is certainly knowen by the preaching of the word and the right vse of the Sacramēts: so that we doubt not but there is the true Church, where we finde these markes: neither is it needfull to know the estate of euery parti∣cular member thereof, for so long, as all actions in the Church are directed and ordered by the rule of Gods word, we neede not to doubt to commit our sel∣ues to that Church, howsoeuer otherwise men do stand before God: and yet, so much as is necessarie, the faithfull may be iudged & knowen by their fruites.

Page  45Thirdly, though we admit that wicked men are mēbers: yet the vncertainty remaineth still: for they them selues hold that neither men not Baptised, or persons excommunicate, or heretikes can be of the Church: but many may liue in the Church, whom we know not to be Baptised, which may be ipso fa∣cto, by the deed doing excommunicate without publike sentence, and here∣tikes also: wherefore euen amongest themselues they are vncertaine, who are members of the Church.

The Protestantes.

WE hold that the Catholike Church consisteth onely of the predesti∣nate, and comprehendeth the vniuersall number of all those which shalbe saued, not onely those now liuing on earth,* but all that haue bene since the beginning of the world: of this Church S. Paule was euen being a persecu∣ter, for he was neuer a member of the deuill nor reprobate, as Iohn Husse saith articul. 2. Of this Church Iudas the traytor neuer was, though he were repu∣ted for a Disciple of Christ for a while Huss. articul. 7. Therefore the wicked and reprobate though they liue in the outward assembly of Christians, are no more the true members of Christ, then the tares in the field may be coun∣ted wheat or good corne.

1 The true members of Christ, are also his sheepe, the wicked are not the sheepe of Christ, Ergo neither his members.

The sheepe of Christ heare his voyce: they do not heare his voyce,*Ergo if they shall aunswere, that hypocrites and wicked men do heare Christes voyce, so long as they continue in the outward profession of Christians, we thus im∣proue it: Christes sheepe do folow him in life and example Iohn. 15.4. but so doe not they. If it shalbe yet aunswered that they may also a while walke in Christes steps: this is not enough, for all Christes shalbe saued. ver. 9. wherfore the Gospell vnderstandeth such folowers, as continue to the end.

2 Christ is the head of his Church, and all the partes thereof, but he is not the head of the wicked & reprobate, Ergo. The Iesuite graunteth that he is the head, euen of those partes that shall perish. Bellarmin. cap. 7. We thus answere, Christ is the head onely of those, for whom he gaue him selfe. Ephe. 5.23.25: but he gaue not him selfe for the wicked, Ergo. If this be denied, we thus pro∣ceede, Christ dyed onely for those whom he sanctifieth and cleanseth, to make them a glorious Church without spot and wrincle. Ephe. 5.26.27. But this can not agree any wise to the wicked, Ergo.

3 The Church of God is the whole familie of the children of God in hea∣uen and earth, Ephe. 3.15. they both make but one Church, the wicked are not of this familie: for who would say that the Saintes in heauen, and wicked and reprobate men vpon the earth, are felow seruaunts, and of one houshold, Ergo they are not of the Catholike Church.

4 Of all other that is a most euident place. 1. Iohn. 2.19. they went out of vs, but were not of vs, Ergo heretikes and reprobates are not of the church. Page  46Bellarmine aunswereth: though they were not of vs, that is, of the Church: ani∣mis & voluntate, in soule, and minde, and purpose of hart, yet they were of vs, externa professione, in externall profession. Thus they are not ashamed, such is there great boldnesse, to contradict the scriptures, for the Apostle saith, non erāt ex nobis, they were not of vs: they say, yes, forsoth, after a sort, erāt ex nobis, they were of vs: the Apostle saith nay, they say yea, he saith indeed exierunt ex nobis, they went out of vs, which soundeth nothing like, as erant ex nobis, they were of vs, as the Iesuite subtillie would conclude.

*5 Let Augustine speake for vs both, Illa columba, vnica, pudica, casta, spon∣sa sine macula & ruga non intelligitur, nisi in bonis, iustis, sanctis. That louely doue (saith he) the chast, vndefiled, and vnspotted spouse (that is the Church of God) is onely vnderstood of those that are righteous, faithfull, holy, Ergo the wicked are not of the Church, which is the spouse of Christ.

THE SECOND PART OF THE QVESTION, whether the Catholike Church be inuisible.
The Papistes.

THey do affirme that the Catholike Church is and hath bene alwayes visi∣ble: [error 15] not so visible, because it might be seene, but that it hath bene alwayes actually visible, & not seene onely vnto the mēbers of the church, but notori∣ously knowē to the whole world. Rhemens. annot in Math. cap. 5. Sect. 3. Neither do they meane any particular Church so to haue bene visible, but the vniuer∣sall catholike church, which they define to be a visible cōgregatiō of all faith∣full men. Canisius. cap. de fide & Symbol. articul. 18. Bellarmin. lib. 3. de Eccles. cap. 12. ration. 7.

1 The foundation of the Church is visible: therefore the Church is visi∣ble: the proportion they proue thus: for whether we affirme Christ, or Peter to be the foundatiō of the Church: both of them are now visible in him which is the Vicare of Christ, and Peters successor.

We answere. First, we vtterly denie either Peter to be the foundation of the Church, or els the Pope to be his lawfull successor: for Peter is no more the foundation of the Church, then all the Prophetes and Apostles. Ephe. 2.20. whose doctrine is the foundation, not their persons. And as for the Pope, we care not so much for outward successiō in place, which notwithstanding they can not proue to haue bene perpetuall without interruption, as we do require a succession of faith and doctrine. Secondly, we affirme that Christ is the foun∣dation, but not the visible beholding of Christ, with the carnall eyes, but be∣leeuing in his name, for when Peter had vttered that notable confession of Christ, he said that flesh and bloud had not reuealed it but his father in hea∣uen: but if the beholding of Christ, had geuen Peter a sight of the foundation, thē flesh had reuealed it vnto him, his carnall eyes had brought him to Christ. Thirdly, we may much better returne this argument vpon them selues: that Page  47 because the foundation of the Church, which is faith in Christ, is inuisible, therefore the Church is inuisible.

2 They heape vp many places of Scriptures, but to small purpose as Math. 18. tell the Church. Actes. 15. when they came to Ierusalem they were re∣ceiued of the Church, Philip. 3.6. Paule persecuted the Church: how could the church be persecuted, how could it receiue the Apostles, if it were not vi∣sible? Bellarmin. cap. 12.

We answere, what goodly reasons here be: a particular church such as was at Ierusalem may be seene, Ergo the catholike and vniuersall. Secondly, a parti∣cular church may be sometime visible, Ergo alwayes. Thirdly, the church is visible vnto the faithfull, as in time of persecution, for to Paule it was not knowen, when he persecuted it, but onely to the brethren, Ergo it is visible to the world. For these three points they must proue that the catholike church not a particular is visible, that the Church is not sometime but alway visible, yea and to the world, or else they say nothing: for shame masters make bet∣ter arguments.

3 He hath set his tabernacle in the sunne. Psal. 19. The Church is as a Ci∣tie vpon an hill, Math. 5. Ergo it is alwayes visible. Bellarmin. ibid. Rhemist. Math. 5. Sect. 3.

We answere. First, the Apostles them selues, euen at this time, when Christ spake these wordes vnto them, were not so in sole, or in monte, in the sunne, or vpon the hill, that they were seene of the world, nay they were not seene nor acknowledged of the Scribes and Pharisies in Iewrie: the Church is seene of the faithfull, it is visible to them that search for her out of the Scriptures: they that cā see the mountaine, shal see the Citie, the mountaine is Christ, the Citie is the Church. No marueile if the Church be not alwayes visible to the world, for they see not, neither do they know Christ. Secondly, the church is said to be on a hill: because the truth seeketh no corners, heretikes and false tachers flye into the desert and into secret places, Math. 24. ver. 26. But the truth is not a∣shamed: the Apostles confessed Christ, euē before Kings and Princes, Marke 13.19. so Augustine expoundeth it. Cont. Faustum. lib. 13. cap. 13.

The Protestantes.

COncerning the catholike church, we hold, that because, it is an article of our faith, it is alwayes vnto the world inuisible, and not to be espyed but by the eyes of faith. Fulk. Math. 5. Sect. 5.

Concerning particular churches▪ if by visible, they vnderstand that which may be seene, so we graunt they are alwayes visible. Fulk. Act. 11. v. 24. If for that which is actually visible: we say it is not so alwayes visible to the world, nay it may sometimes be so hid and secret, that the members know not one another. Fulk. in Math. 5. Sect. 3.

1 To the Hebrues it is thus written. cap. 13. v. 18.23.24. you are not come to the moūtaine, which might be touched, but to the Citie of the liuing God, the Page  48 celestiall Ierusalem, &c. Ergo the church is inuisible, and here opposed to the visible hill of Sinay.

Bellarmine answereth, that this is vnderstood of the triumphant church in heauen, not of the militant vpon earth.

To this we make answere, the Apostle vnderstandeth the whole vniuer∣sall church in heauen and earth, which both make but one familie, Ephe. 3.15. for here he nameth not onely the spirites of iust men which are in heauen, but the faithfull vpon earth, whose names are written in heauen: the congregatiō (saith he) of the first borne: the wordes are 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 and 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, a gathering together, collection or cōgregation, which must needes be vnderstood of men vpon earth. Againe (saith he) ye are come, not ye shall come: they had now left the smoking mountaine Sinay, and were come to Sion, the church vnder the Gospell. Wherefore this is a most firme and inuincible argument: the catho∣like church is the vniuersall number of Gods chosen in heauen and in earth, Ergo inuisible.

2 We will giue an instance: In the dayes of Elias the church was not vi∣sible, for he camplaineth, and saith that he was onely left alone, 1. King. 19.10. Ergo the church is not alway visible.

*The Rhemistes answere. First, at that time the church was visible in Iudaea, the souldiers were numbred to 1000. thousand, 2. Chron. 17. We aunswere againe. First, belike they haue taken a more exact account of them then the Lord him selfe: for he (saith he) had reserued 7000, 1. King. 19.18. that had not bowed their knees to Baall, they say there were ten hūdred thousand. Againe Elias, if he had knowen such a number, could not haue bene left so comfort∣lesse, as in grief of hart to desire to dye. But be it graunted that the church was visible in Iudaea at this time, though it were not so to Elias: yet where was that visible church in the dayes of Achaz, and Manasseh, when Iudaea fell also to I∣dolatrie? Thirdly, to beleeue that there is an holy catholike church is an article of our faith, Ergo it is inuisible.

Bellarmin answereth. First, the holinesse of the church is inuisible. We reply, so the church is partly visible, partly inuisible by his confession. First, why thē do ye define the catholike church to be a visible cōgregatiō, if it be not wholly & altogether visible? they know that difinitio must cōuenire definito, the definitiō must agree wholly to that which is defined: but now it is not: for they say, the catholike holy church is partly visible as it is a church, partly inuisible as it is holy. Secondly, do we not say in the Creede, Credo Catholicam, as well as Cre∣do Sanctam, I beleeue a catholike church, as well as I beleeue the holy church? then it is also inuisible, as it is catholike, because this also is part of the article: see I pray you what shifting is here?

Secondly, he answereth, that some thing is seene in the church, some thing beleeued: for we see that visible companie of men, which make the church, but whether that companie be the true church, we do not see it, but beleeue it.

We reply againe. First, the Iesuite hath not yet proued that some thing is Page  49 seene in the church, some thing beleeued: but one thing is seene, namely the congregation as they are men, another thing is beleeued, that they are the church: the sight and beliefe now by his owne confession are not both in the church. Secondly, we denie that the vniuersall cōpanie of the catholike church, which is the number of the predestinate can be seene, therefore all is beleeued, and nothing seene. Thirdly, he saith that by faith we know which is the true church: Ergo by faith we know which are the members of the church: Ergo by faith the mēbers do know them selues to be of the Church: therefore faith is requisite in the true members of the church: thē vnfaithfull men can not be true members of the church, which point the Iesuite strongly before main∣tained against vs. Mendacem oportet esse memorem, a lyar had need haue a good memorie: lest he tell contrarie tales, and so hath the Iesuite here, for before he denied that faith was requisite to make a true member of the church: here he saith that without faith a mēber cā not be knowen, much lesse therfore made.

3 The Rhemistes confesse in these very words, that in the raigne of (their imagined and supposed) Antichrist the externall state of the Romane church, and publike entercourse of the faithfull with the same shall cease, and that there shalbe onely a communion in hart with it, and practise in secret, Annot. in. 2. Thess. 2. Sect. 10. Where then (I pray you) shalbe your tabernaculum in sole, ciuitas in monte, candela splendens in domo: your tabernacle in the sunne, your Citie in a mountaine, your candle shining in the house, that is, say you, in the world. Math. 5. Sect. 3. Ergo out of their owne wordes we conclude, that the church shall not alwayes be visible, and notoriously knowen in the world.

Lastly, we will conclude with Augustine. Aliquando in sola domo Noah Ec∣clesia erat: in solo Abraham Ecclesia erat: in solo Loth & domo eius Ecclesia erat: in solo Henoch Ecclesia erat: Sometime the church was onely in Henochs house,* sometime onely in Noah, some time in Abraham alone, in Loth & his house. How then hath the church bene alwayes so visible and notoriously knowē to the world, when it hath layen hidden some time in one house, yea in one man.

THE SECOND QVESTION, whether the Church may erre.

THis questiō is deuided into two parts. First, whether the catholike church may erre at all, or not? Secondly, whether the visible church vpon earth may fall away from God into Idolatrie and apostasie.

THE FIRST PART, WHETHER THE Catholike Church may erre in doctrine.
The Papistes.

THey do teach that the catholike church can not possiblie erre, not onely in matters absolutely necessarie to saluation, but not in any thing, which [error 16] Page  50 it imposeth and commaundeth, whether it be conteined in the word of God or not: yea that it can not erre in these things, which beside the word of God are commaunded. And by the church here, they do meane not onely the Pa∣stors and Bishops, but the whole companie of the faithfull: so that neither that which all the pastors of the church do teach, can be erronious, nor what is receiued generally of the whole church. Bellarm. de Eccles. lib. 3. cap. 14. Rhe∣mist. annot an Iohan. 14. ver. 16.

1 The church (say they) is the pillar of truth▪ 1. Tim. 3. Ergo it can not erre. We answere. First, it is no otherwise the pillar of truth, then a virgin without spot and wrincle, Ephe. 5.27. As that place doth not priuiledge the church frō all sinne and imperfection of life, so neither doth this place exempt her from all error in doctrine. Secondly, she is called the pillar of truth in respect of vs, because the truth is preserued in the true church, and is not els where to be found: not because the truth dependeth vpon the church: for S. Paule sendeth not Timothie in this place to learne of the church, as though it could not possi∣blie be deceiued: but (saith he) these things haue I written, that thou mayst know how to behaue thy selfe in the house of God. ver. 14.15. Ergo the word of God is the rule of truth, and the church hath no warrant, to be kept from error, but as she is lead and gouerned by the word of God. Thirdly, the argu∣ment foloweth not, for Peter was a pillar and yet erred. Gallat. 2.9.11.

2 They heape many arguments together. The church hath the spirite of God, to lead it into all truth, the gates of hell shall not preuaile against it. Math. 16. God hath geuen it Apostles, teachers, Euangelistes to keepe it in the truth. Ephe. 4. Christ hath prayed for the church, that it may be sanctified in the veritie. Iohn. 17. Christ prayed that Peters faith should not faile, Ergo the church can not erre. Rhemens. annot. 1. Timoth. 3.15.

We answere: euery one of the elect hath the spirite of God, neither shall the gates of hell preuaile against the faith of any one of the elect to ouerthrow it: Christ prayeth for euery one of his Disciples that they may be sanctified in the truth. Iohn. 17.20. wherefore it foloweth as well by these arguments, that no one faithfull man can fall into error. The pastors and teachers, so long as they folow the Apostles doctrine, may keepe the church from error, but it is not gathered out of that place. Ephe. 4. that the pastors if they swarue from Gods word can not erre.

Concerning Peter, Christ prayed for him that his faith should not faile in that greeuous tentation, which he fell into. Secondly, he prayed not for him as gouernour of the church, but as he prayeth for euery faithfull man. Iohn. 17.23. Thirdly, for all this prayer Peter erred▪ Gallat. 2.

3 This argument was vsed in the Councell of Basill: the Church is with∣out spot, and wrincle. Ephe. 5.27. Ergo without error.

We aunswere. First, S. Paule speaketh there of a glorious church, such as it shalbe in the kingdome of heauen, not of the church as it is vpon earth: so Re∣uel. 7.14. The elders, which sat round about the throne, which are the Saintes Page  51 in heauen, were seene in long white robes, which they had washed white in the bloud of the Lambe.

2 It foloweth out of this place that the church is as well without sinne, as free from error: which the diuines in the Councell did also graunt. But see∣ing by their owne confession euery member of the church, being clothed in this mortall flesh sinneth, how can the church be without sinne? If the church consist of men, and all men are sinners, how is the church free? If all the partes and members be sinnefull, how is not the whole also polluted with sinne? If all the partes of the body be sicke and diseased, how can the whole be sound? The church also is not ashamed to confesse her selfe to be blacke. Cant. 1.5. she shal∣be made bewtifull and glorious without all spot & blemish in the kingdome of God: and euen now also is made righteous and iust before God through Christ: not because she hath no sinne, but because it is remitted: and although some errors and imperfections remaine, yet shall they be no hinderaunce to her saluation.

The Protestantes.

WE doubt not to say, that the church of God may erre in some points not necessarie to saluation: but can not fall cleane away from God into any dānable error. Fulk. annot. in Ephe. 5. ver. 29. That the church may erre, as we say, we do shew it thus: and by the Church, we vnderstand the whole companie and congregation, the pastors with the people.

1 When our Sauiour Christ suffred, the church erred in faith, Ergo it may erre: the proposition is thus proued. The church was either in the Scribes and Pharisies, or els in the Apostles: but both of them erred: they in putting Christ to death, the other in their incredulitie, not beleeuing rightlie in the resurre∣ction of Christ.

Bellarmine aunswereth, first that the Pharisies were priuiledged not to erre,* onely till the cōming of Christ. We replie againe. First, after Christ was come they sate in Moses chaire, and Christ biddeth they should be heard. Math. 23.2. if they erred not afore, neither could they now, for they were not displaced out of Moses chaire: but the truth is, they neuer had any such priuiledge not to erre. Secondly, if the Pharisies were now prone to error, then by our aduersa∣ries owne confession, they ceased to be the church, Ergo the church was not now visible, for in them it was not: and the Apostles fled from Christ, and shif∣ted for them selues: how could then the church be visible to the world?

Secondly, the Iesuite aunswereth concerning the Apostles. First, the Apo∣stles were not yet entred into their office and Bishoprike, but onely appointed to it, and therefore they might erre. We replie againe. First they were not one∣ly appointed Apostles, but partly already they had exercised their Apostle∣ship: for they were sent forth to preach the Gospell, and had power and com∣mission to worke miracles, and heale diseases Math. 10▪ how then is not the Ie∣suite ashamed to say, that they were not yet Pastors nor Apostles? Secondly, if Page  52 the Pharisies erred, and the Apostles erred, then all the world was in error, Ergo by their saying at this instant there was no church vpon the earth, which is a great absurditie, for the church erreth not, they say.

Secondly, (saith the Iesuite) the Apostles erred not in faith: they were re∣proued for not beleeuing the resurrection: which beliefe because they had not yet receiued, they could not loose it. We reply. First, though they had not erred in any materiall point: yet if there were any error at all in them, it is sufficient for our purpose: that they erred it is manifest, for they fled away from Christ. Secondly, he excuseth them for their infidelitie concerning the resurrection, because this faith they had not yet receiued. But had not Christ (I pray you) often instructed them of this matter: and if this were no such error in them, then Christ was to sharpe in reprouing them for their infidelitie. Thirdly, it appeareth, that they wholly were deceiued concerning the Messiah: Luke. 24.21. the two Disciples say, they trusted that it had bene he that should haue de∣liuered Israell: see then what weake aunswers these are: did these felowes thinke, that their gloses should not be examined? or that their dreames should be taken for oracles?

2 The church of the Iewes erred before our Sauiour Christes comming, Ergo the true church may erre.

The proposition is proued: In the time of the raigne of good kings, they did offer sacrifice vpon hill altars, but onely to the Lord, which was an error. 2. Kings. The feast of the Passeouer was not kept so precisely accor∣ding to Gods word at any time before, no not in the raigne of the best kings, as it was in the 18. yeare of Iosias raigne, 2. King. 23.22. The feast of Tabernacles had not bene so solemnly and truly kept from the dayes of Iosua, as it was in Nehemiahs time▪ Nehem. 8.18. Ergo all this while the church of the Iewes erred somewhat in the externall worship of God. Fulk. Ephes. cap. 5. Sect. 4.

*3 Augustine saith, Quomodo erit Ecclesia in isto tempore, perfecta sine macula & ruga, cuius mēbra non mendaciter confitentur se habere peccata. How can the church be perfect in this life, without spot or wrincle, whose members do tru∣ly confesse, that they are not without sinne? Ergo the church sinneth and is imperfect, and why not subiect to error? But in the Councell of Basill it was denied, as ye heard, that the church could sinne.

THE SECOND PART, WHETHER THE visible Church may fayle vpon the earth.
The Papistes.

[error 17] THey hold that it is impossible that the visible church should vtterly fayle vpon the earth, and fall from God, but that there shall alwayes be a visible and knowen church vpon the earth, hauing a perpetuall succession of Pastors and Doctors, where the true worship of God shalbe preserued and kept. Bel∣larmin. lib. 3. de Eccles. cap. 13.

Page  531 These and such places of Scripture they stand vpon, Math. 16. the gates of hell shall not preuaile against it, Math. 28. I wilbe with you to the end of the world. Psal. 88. his throne shalbe as the Sunne, and endure as the Moone, Ergo the visible church shall not fayle vpon earth. Bellarmin.

We aunswere: that these places must be vnderstood, of the catholike and vniuersall church, whereof we denie not, but euery true particular church is a part. This church is the spouse of Christ, this church shall not perish, this is the kingdome of Christ, with this church will he alway be present to the end of the world: we denie not but that the inuisible church shall continue vpon the earth so long as the world endureth. Secondly, those places are vnproperly vn∣derstood of the visible church, for therein are both good and bad: how thē can that be the spouse of Christ, where there are many infidels and wicked ones, which haue not espoused themselues vnto him? how can it be called his king∣dome, whereas it is not of all acknowledged? But in the true catholike church all and euery one are espoused to Christ: all and euery one haue the kingdome of God within them, as it is Luke. 17. ver. 21.

2 They do abuse that place of S. Paule Ephe. 4.11. he gaue some to be A∣postles, some Euangelistes, some pastors and teachers, for the gathering toge∣ther of the Saints: Ergo the church shall alwayes be visible till all the Saintes are gathered together. Bellarmin. cap. 13. Rhemistes. Ephes. 4. Sect. 5.

We aunswere: this place proueth that the church hath neuer wanted pa∣stors and teachers for the continuance of the truth, neither shall euer be with∣out them, as the Lord said by the Prophet Isay. 59. ver. 21. My spirite, which is vpō thee, & my words which I haue put into thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor the mouth of thy seede for euer. We therfore denie not but that in all ages, yea in the most ignoraunt times of Poperie, God raised vp faithfull teachers vnto his church: although they were not mitred and crozi∣ard Bishops, neither could shew any outward pompe or boast of any glorious successiō: Such were Gulielmus de S. Amore, Arnoldus de noua villa. an. 1240. Be∣rengarius, Ioachim Abbas, in the time of Innocentius 3. Wikclef, Bruto, Swinderby,*Badby, and others about. anno. 1400. with many, which were not knowen to the world: for the truth neuer in any age wanted witnesses.

By the continuance of the truth and right faith, we gather, that there haue bene alwayes faithfull teachers, though not notorious to the world, and shal∣be: but who they were, and where they liued, what pompe, what authoritie they were of, it is not materiall to know: wherefore an outward visible succes∣sion of Bishops and Pastors is not necessarie for the continuance of the truth: neither can it be concluded out of this place.

3 Thus they reason, there haue bene alwayes some faithfull men, which haue outwardly professed their faith: for if they dissembled or cloaked their profession, then were they not faithfull: Ergo the church hath bene alwayes visible, as in the time of persecution. Bellarmine.

We aunswere. First, the Iesuite doth cleane peruert and chaunge the state Page  54 of the question: for he defineth a visible church, to be multitudo congregata, in qua sint praelati & subditi: a multitude or companie gathered together, where there are both Prelates and Bishops, and people obediēt vnto them. And now he geueth an instance of persecution, wherein some faithfull Christians may geue an outward profession of their faith: where is now that multitude con∣gregate together? where is that iurisdiction of Prelates? where is that visible and glorious succession? We denie not but that in time of persecution the faithfull may be knowen to them selues: and yet some time they are not: for in Israell there were seuen thousand faithfull beside Elias, yet he knew none of them. But it foloweth not, that therefore the church is then visible to the world, and notoriously knowen to men, for so the Rhemistes say, in Math. 5. Sect. 3. & Act. 11. Sect. 3. Thus they flye manifestly from the question.

The Protestantes.

WE denie not, but that the catholike vniuersall church, as it hath hither∣to continued since the beginning of the world, so shall it endure to the end: the Lord shall neuer want vpon earth a companie of faithfull men, which shall truly serue him: though it be not necessarie, neither hath alwayes bene seene, that they should be in any one place. A visible church we define to be a congregation of men, amongest whom the word is truly preached, and the Sacraments administred: such a Church hath not alwayes bene, neither can we be assured that it shall alway be found vpon the earth, wherein the worship of God publikely and visibly is practised.

1 In the raigne of Ahaz king of Iuda there was no visible church, where the pure worship of God was practised, for both Israell vnder Pekah, and Iuda vnder Ahaz, fell to Idolatrie, and folowed the custome of the Gētiles. 2. Kings. 16.3. yea Vriah the high Priest consented with the king to set vp Idolatrie. Likewise in the dayes of Manasseh, who did euill after the abhomination of the heathen. 2. Kings. 21.2. there was no place, where God was publikely wor∣shipped. for Iudah was corrupted, Israell was carried away captiue, Ergo there was a time, when there was no visible Church.

2 In the Passion of our Sauiour there was no visible church, such a church we still meane, as where there are, Prelati & subditi, pastores & oues, Prelates and people, pastors and sheepe. We proue it thus.

The visible Church was not amongest the Pharisies and Priests, for they shamefully and wickedly erred. Bellarmin. 17. It was not among the Apostles, for they also erred, therfore after the Papists opiniō they were not the Church: for the Church (say they) erreth not. Secondly he saith, they were yet but mate∣riall partes, not formall, that is, not Bishops or Pastors, how then could there be a visible Church, which was without the formal and principall parts, that is Pastors and Bishops, Ergo there was then no visible Church.

3 When the abhominatiō of desolation shall stand in the temple, & there shalbe a generall defection and apostasie from the faith, then shall the visible Page  55 church fayle vpon earth: But the first is true Math. 24.15. 2. Thess. 2.3. Ergo.

To the first place the Iesuite aunswereth that it must be vnderstood of the destruction of the temple. cap. 16. But the Rhemistes more liberall then so, af∣firme that it shalbe especially accomplished in Antichristes time, when as the sacrifice of the Masse shall vtterly be abolished. annot. in Math. 24. ver. 15.

To the next place, cōcerning that defectiō & apostasie, which S. Paul spea∣keth of, first he saith, that it shalbe a defection from the Romane Empire: but the Rhemistes say, it shalbe a defection frō most points of Christian Religion. Secondly, the Iesuite aunswereth, that though it be a defection from the Ro∣mane faith, yet it shall not be generall but particular: but the Rhemistes bet∣ter aduised graunt it shalbe a reuolt of kingdomes, peoples, prouinces: & the publike entercourse of the faithfull with the church of Rome shall cease, they shall onely communicate with it in hart. annot. in 2. Thess. 2. Sect. 6.

Now out of their owne wordes we conclude: there shalbe a time whē as the publike seruice of God shall cease, there shalbe desolation in the Churches and temples of Christians: there shalbe then no publike entercourse with the Church, but a priuat communicating in hart, Ergo there shalbe a time, when there shalbe no outward visible Church notoriously and famously knowen: Ergo our aduersaries are in an error, & are condemned by their owne mouth.

THE THIRD QVESTION, OF THE notes and markes, whereby the true Church may be discerned and knowen.

FIRST OF THE FALSE AND ERRO∣neous notes of the Church.

OVr aduersaries do deuise many notes, whereby their Church is discryed, as Bellarmine reckoneth vp▪ 15. in order, to many (certaine) to be found in a good Church: but there are six principall, which they doe most stand vpon: antiquitie, vniuersalitie, succession, vnitie, the power of miracles, the gift of prophesie. We must first touch these in order, and then come to the true and infallible notes of the Church.

Of antiquitie. Note. 1.

THe Papists make great bragges of the long continuance of their Church: yea that they can shew the discent of their Church from Adam. Rhemistes. [error 18] annot. in Act. 28. Sect. 5. But (alacke) sillie men they must come short of our Saui∣uiour Christs and the Apostles time, by fiue or six hundred yeares, for the most of the opinions, which they now hold. Let vs examine their reasons.

In any great chaunge of Religion (say they) the authors of the Sect, the time when it began, the persons that oppugned it may be knowen: but no such thing can be shewed of our Church (say they) as we can shew of yours, we can Page  56 tell them the yeare, the places, and ringleaders of their reuolt, say our English Rhemistes. annot. in 1. Iohan. 2. Sect. 9. Bellarmin. lib. 4. de Eccles. cap. 5.

We aunswere. First, no meruaile if Papistrie herein do much differ from o∣ther heresies: they, as the heresies of the Arrians, Pelagians, Donatistes, because they were not long to continue, sodainly brake out, and sodainly againe were extinguished. But Papistrie, being the prop and pillar of Antichrists king∣dome, by whom the world must be deluded many yeares, was at the begin∣ning to worke closely and secretly, not breaking out at once into open impie∣tie and blasphemie, but vnder pretense of holynesse, to set a broach her deadly poyson: therefore S. Paule calleth it a mysterie of antiquitie, which began e∣uen to worke in his dayes. 2. Thess. 2.7.

Secondly, we also aunswere, that all these things, the authors of their sectes, the time, the persons that withstood them, may manifestly be detected: first concerning the time, we haue a manifest Prophesie, Apocal. 20. that Sathan should be bound a thousand yeares, and afterward let loose: when no doubt Antichrist should begin to shew him selfe to the world. Cōcerning this space of a thousand yeares, there are two probable opinions: some thinke they are to begin immediatly after our Sauiour Christes time, and so counting a thou∣sand yeares, all which time Sathan must be bound, then Antichrist should be∣gin to appeare.* Thus Iohn Wicliffe expoundeth it. Others say the thousand yeares ought to begin after the three hundred yeares expired of persecution: for all that while it is most like Sathan was let loose, when he raged with opē mouth like a Lion against the Church and Saints of God: of this opinion was Walter Brute somewhat after Wicliffes time: who by this meanes maketh the Prophesie of Daniell of 1290. dayes,* and that in the Apocalipse 12. of 1260. dayes, to agree with the thousand yeares of Sathans binding: for taking euery day for a yeare, we shall come to .1290. yeares after Christ: when the thousand yeares must be expired, beginning from the three hundred yeares of persecu∣tion. If we count the thousand yeares from Christ, we shall come to the time of Hildebrand the seuenth, who was Pope of Rome, a thousand yeares after Christ and vpward: by whom the mariage of Ministers is thought first to haue bene forbidden: if we begin after the ceasing of persecution, which con∣tinued three hundred yeares, we shall fall into the yeare .1300. about the time of Iohn Wicliffe,* whē the great rabble of Monkes and Friers began to swarme, and superstition to encrease.

But we will take a litle payne briefly to touch the authors of many super∣stitions in Poperie, and of their erronious and hereticall opinions. Anno. 420. Zosimus Bishop of Rome did chalenge a prerogatiue aboue other Churches, that it might be lawfull to make appeales frō other Churches to that sea: and to set the better colour vpon it, he falsely alledged a decree of the Nicene Coū∣cell, but there was no such thing found there: wherefore it was decreed in the Councell of Carthage at that time, that none should appeale ouer the seas to Rome.

Page  57Bonifice the third, purchased of the wicked Emperour Phocas the title of v∣niuersall Bishop. Transubstantiation was first concluded against Berengarius anno. 1062. vnder Leo the ninth, but not publikely enacted before anno. 1216. vn∣der Innocentius the third. The Dominicke Friers brought in the same time,* and their Sect established by Innocentius the third. Auricular confession also was brought in anno. 1215. vnder the same Pope.

Mariage first prohibited by Nicholas the secōd, Alexander the second, Gre∣gorie the seuenth, about the yeare 1070. The Communion in one kinde for∣ged and inuented, and decreed in the Councell of Constance, not aboue two hūdred yeares ago. By these few examples it may appeare that it is false which the Iesuite saith, that the authors of their sectes and heresies cā not be shewed.

Now we will briefly declare, what oppugners and gainsayers they haue had in all ages, since their grossest opinions began to be receiued: Such were Ber∣tramus and Berēgarius about pope Hildebrands time▪ that mightily impugned the grosse opinion of Trāsubstantiatiō. Robertus Gallus 1291. Robert Grosthead Bishop of Lincolne, who was called malleus Romanorū, the mallet or hammar of the Romanes anno. 1250. Franciscus Petrarcha 1350. Iohannes de rupe Scissa, who Prophesied against the Pope 1340. with many other,* which ceased not to crye out against the abhominable vices and erronious opinions of the Church of Rome. Wherefore it is a great vntruth, which the Iesuite doth so stifly auouch that we can not set down the pedegree & discent of their church and faith, and how it hath continually bene resisted.

3 Now whereas they say, that they can name the ringleaders of our sect: we haue none other maisters and authors of our faith, then our Sauiour Christ and his Apostles, by whose holy writings we refuse not to be tryed: But you flye from the light: you disgrace the Scriptures, making them imperfect, and insufficient: this the true Disciples of Christ would not do, you are the Disci∣ples of Christ, as the Pharisies bragged, that they were the Disciples of Moses: And as then the true church was not in those that sat in Moses chaire, though they could alledge great antiquitie, but in Christ and his Apostles: so is not now the true Church to be discerned, by custome or number of yeares, but by that truth, which was taught and preached by our blessed Sauiour, and his Apostles.

Of Vniuersalitie. Note. 2.

OVr Church is vniuersall, say they, both in respect of time, person, & place, [error 19] it hath alwayes bene in the world, in all countrys and nations it hath flo∣rished, Ergo it is the true Church.

That it is vniuersall, they first proue by the name of Catholike, which is, say they, by Gods prouidence appropriat to them, which name they affirme without ground to haue bene imposed by the Apostles vpon true beleeuers. Rhem. in Act. cap. 11. Sect. 4.

We aunswere. First, the name of Christians is a more honorable title then Page  58 the name of Catholikes: for it is manifest Act. 11.26. that this name was vsed in the Apostles time, and by the Apostles them selues allowed: but it is not certaine that the name Catholike came from the Apostles. Againe many he∣retikes chalenged this name to be called Catholikes, who did not so easily ob∣taine to be called Christians: which ancient and honorable name the Papistes do despise, for in Italie and at Rome it is vsed as a name of reproch, to signifie a dolt or a foole. Fulk. in Acts. 11.26.

2 We say that you doe vsurpe this name, as the Donatistes in Augustines time would be called Catholikes: for what is the name of Catholike, without the Catholike doctrine? They are the true Catholikes, that professe the aunci∣ent and Apostolike faith: to vs therefore, be it knowen to you, this name of better right appertaineth, then to you (ô ye Papists) yet we haue better argu∣mentes to proue our Church by, then by sillables and titles: Quasi nos (saith Augustine) huius nominis testimonio nitamur ad demonstrandam Ecclesiam,*& non promissis Dei. As though we (saith he) do leane vpon this name to proue our Church by, and not rather vpon the promises of God.

Secondly, they proue their vniuersalitie, by the multitude of people, that haue receiued the Romish faith: and their Church (say they) hath replenished the greatest part of the world. They would proue this by the propagation of the Church, in the Apostles time, in Tertulian, Irenaeus, Hierome, Augustine, yea and afterward in Gregories dayes: yea and now also besides many great coun¦tryes in Europe, they haue of their church in India, America, & the vnknowen parts of the world. Bellarmin. cap. 7. nota. 4.

We aunswere. First, the truth is not alwayes to be measured by the iudge∣ment or opinion of the multitude: folow not a multitude saith the Scripture to do euill: the greatest part is not the best: Christ calleth his flocke pusillum gregem, a litle flocke, feare not litle flocke (saith he). Secondly, you haue nothing to do with the Church, which was propagated in the Apostles time, nor for the space of fiue or six hundred yeares after Christ: it was not your Church, for the most of your heresies are more lately sprong vp then so. And you need not bragge of your vniuersalitie now: for the Turke (I trow) hath a larger do∣minion then the Pope, and Mahometisme is as largely spread as Papistrie, and further to: And for Europe, I hope you neede not make your boast: the Pope had neuer lesse iurisdiction, then he hath now, and I trust euery day, shall haue lesse. But many (you say) in the new found countryes, haue bene cōuerted to your religiō. In deed, if you had had grace, such an opportunitie being offe∣red as the Spaniards had, you might haue won that simple people to Christ. But you thirsted more for their gold, then for their soules health: it is notori∣ously knowen to the world, what extreme crueltie hath bene wrought vpon that innocent people. Was that a Catholike part of the Spaniardes to keepe dogges of purpose, to werry and destroy the inhabitants, to vse them as horse and beastes, to plough, to carry, to digge? Thus by your crueltie, there were out of one small Iland called Hispaniola, which was well peopled and inhabi∣ted, Page  59 destroyed and rooted out in short time, two milions of men and women, the storie of Benzo an Italian is abroad to be seene of this matter: you haue none or few of your Popish Catholikes in those countryes, but of your owne brood, that haue bene sent thither, but enough of this.

3 We nothing doubt, but that our faith, the truth of the Gospell hath bene long since knowen and published to the whole world.

Those two cōditions, which the Iesuite putteth in, to make the Church v∣niuersall, do helpe vs very well: the first is, that it is not necessarie, that all coū∣tryes wholly should professe the Christiā faith: but it suffiseth, if there be some of the church in euery country: the second, it is not requisite, that this vniuer∣salitie of the Church should be all at one time, but if it be done successiue, that is, in diuerse ages, one country to be ioyned to the Church after another, it is enough.

Now keeping these two conditions, we shall easily proue our Church to be vniuersall: for there are no countryes in Europe, and few in the whole world, wherein there are not some of our faith, namely that abhorre worshipping of Images, do onely hope to be saued by faith in Christ without merite, and be∣leeue in the rest, as we do. And againe taking one age after another, we shall easily make it good, that our faith at times hath spread it selfe ouer the whole world.

The third Note of Succession.

THey make great boast of the long and perpetuall successiō of their Popes [error 20] from the Apostles for the space of these 1500. yeares and more: condem∣ning all Churches, which can not shew the like order of succession. Bellarmin. cap. 8. Rhemist. annot. in Ephe. 4. ver. 13.

We aunswer. First, they can not shew such an entier and perpetuall succes∣siō, without any interruptiō or discontinuance for so many yeares: for some∣time there were two, sometime three Popes together, and this schisme conti∣nued 29. yeares, till the Councell of Constance, where three Popes were depo∣sed at once, Benedict 13. the Spanish Pope: Gregorie 12. the French Pope, and Iohn 23. the Italian Pope.

2 If succession be so sure a note of the Church, it is found also in other Churches besides: as in Cōstātinople, where hath bene a perpetuall succession, as Nicephorus saith, from S. Andrew the Apostle: in Antioch from S. Peter: and in other Churches in Grecia. The Iesuite here is driuen to his shiftes, and hath nothing to say, but this: that the argument foloweth negatiuely, that where there is no succession, there is no Church: not affirmatiuely, that where any succession can be shewed, there straightwayes it should folow there is a true Church: so by the Iesuites owne confession he hath made but a bad argument for the Church of Rome: we haue a perpetuall succession of Popes from the Apostles time, Ergo we are the Church. It foloweth not: saith the Iesuite, we graunt it. Why then a litle before did he call it insolubile argumentum, an inso∣soluble Page  60 and vnanswerable argument.

3 Thirdly we say, that a succession of persons in the same place, without succession of doctrine, which they can not shew, is nothing worth. A succes∣sion of the Apostolike faith and doctrine proueth a continuance of pastors and teachers, and not contrariwise. We haue the Apostolike faith, and there∣fore, we doubt not but that there haue bene continually in the Church faith∣full teachers, by whom that doctrine hath bene preserued and kept: though they were not famous, nor carried a glorious shew in the world. For that out∣ward succession is not necessarie, neither so much to be stood vpon. Augustine, whē he had alledged succession against heretikes, concludeth thus: Quanquam non tantū nos de istis documentis praesumamus,*quā de Scripturis sanctis: although (saith he) we presume not so much vpon these documēts as of holy Scripture.

The fourth Note, of Vnitie.

[error 21] OVr aduersaries do stand much vpon vnitie: which they thinke is the glo∣rie of their Church: they doe embrace vnitie amongest them selues, and all ioyne in obedience to their head. Their vnitie also is seene, say they, in the wonderfull consent of all their writers in matters of Religion: and the notable agreement and concord in the decrees of their Popes and Councels. But as for vs, and our Church, they say it is full of rents, schismes and diuisions. Bellarm.

First of the vnitie of their church, and then of the vnitie of ours. Their vni∣tie, they say, is partly seene in their obedience, and louing societie and felow∣ship, partly in their Religion and doctrine.

First for their concord and loue one toward another: we will take some paynes, a litle to decypher it. About the yeare of the Lord 900. there was pre∣tie sport amongest the Popes, nine of them one after another. Stephen the sixth abrogated all his predecessor Formosus decrees: and not content with that, he tooke vp his body which was buried, and cut two fingers of his right hād off, and commaunded his body to be buried againe. After him succeeded Pope Rhomanus, Theodorus the second, Iohn the tenth, who ratified and confirmed the doings of Formosus. After them folowed Pope Sergius, who disanulling all their actes, tooke vp againe the body of Formosus, cut of his head, and com∣maunded his body to be throwen into Tiber the great riuer in Rome.* Was not here great amitie and loue thinke you, amongest the Popes?

Another notable example of their vnitie we haue in Pope Vrbanus time the 6. against whom stood vp a contrarie Pope in Fraunce named Clement: it is worth the noting, what coyle these two popes kept: between whō many bat∣tailes were fought, many thousands slaine. Pope Vrbane beheaded fiue Cardi∣nals together after long torments. Bishop Aquilonensis, because he did ride no faster, was had in suspition, and slayne and cut in peeces by Vrbans souldiers, at his commaundement,* behold here I pray you the vnitie of these Catholikes.

We will adioyne one other example, no longer since, then in king Henry the eights time. The Duke of Bourbon being the leader of the Emperors ar∣mie, Page  61 layd siege to Rome, and sacked it: the souldiers brake in vpon the Pope, which was Clement the seuenth being at Masse, slew diuerse of the Priests, and one Cardinall called Sanctorum quatuor: they layd siege to the Castle of S. An∣gell, so long till the Pope yeelded him selfe. The souldiers dayly that lay at the siege, made iestes of the Pope: sometime they had one riding like the Pope with a whore behind him, sometimes he blessed, sometime he cursed: sometime with one voyce they would call him Antichrist. See here is their Catholike obedience to their chief Bishop.* Thus much concerning their vnitie and con∣cord in life.

Let vs likewise take a view of their vnitie in doctrine. We heard before how Pope Stephen and Sergius abolished the decrees of Formosus: how then saith the Iesuite, that the decrees of Popes do consent together? The Councell of Basile, and Constance before that decreed, that the Pope should be subiect to generall Councels: but this Canon was afterward reuersed, and now gene∣rally the Papists hold the contrary, that the Pope is aboue Councels.

Let vs see the consent of their writers: Bellarmin. lib. 1. de verbo. cap. 12. main∣taineth against Lyranus, Driedo, Genebrard, and others, that Iudith was in Ma∣nasses time. Against Alphonsus de Castro, that heretikes are no members of the Church. Lib. 3. de Eccles. cap. 4. Against Iohannes de turre cremata, that faith is not necessarie to make one a member of the Church. Lib. 3. de Eccles. cap. 10. And euery where the Iesuite taketh great libertie to confute and controll o∣ther his felow Papistes: belike hauing found out some starting holes, that they either knew not, or were ashamed to creepe into, as the Iesuite doth.

But (saith he) we denie not but that we haue dissentions, but they are not in materiall points, but in such things as appertaine not to faith. I meruaile, he blusheth not thus to say, him selfe knowing the contrary. Is it not a substan∣tiall point and belōging to faith, to know which bookes are canonicall Scrip∣ture, which are not? But in this question they do much disagree. Caietanus the Cardinall saith, that we must acknowledge no Scripture, but that which was either written, or approued by the Apostles. But Catharinus a Papist, doth re∣iect that opinion. Hugo Cardinalis, Arias Montanus, do hold no bookes of the old Testament to be canonicall, which are written onely in Greeke: the Pa∣pistes now generally hold the contrary. Ex Whitacher. 1. contr. c. quaest. cap. 6. Bellarmin saith, that all those opinions, which the Church holdeth, as articles or preceptes of faith, were deliuered by the Apostles: & that the Church must not now seeke for new reuelations, but content her selfe, with the Apostolike traditions and doctrine, de Scriptur. lib. 4. cap. 9. Out of the which words it doth necessarily folow, that the church is not now to foūd any new article of faith: but this generally is denied by the Papistes: and Stapleton an English Papist, is not ashamed to say, that the Church, may adde more bookes to the canoni∣call Scripture, by her absolute authoritie.

Further, to beleeue that the virgine Marie was without sinne, yea concei∣ued without originall sinne, is now amongest the Papistes receiued for an ar∣ticle Page  62 of faith: and therefore in Paris none are admitted to be Doctors of Di∣uinitie, which doe not first confirme this article by their oth. Yet this was a great question betweene the Scotistes and Thomistes, and a great and hote contention arose about this controuersie anno. 1476. betweene the Dominicke Friers, who affirmed that she was conceiued in sinne, and the Franciscanes, that held the contrary.* But these Franciscanes had the vpper hand, and foure of the other order were condemned and burned for it at Berne: and yet for all this our aduersaries will say still, that they varie not▪ in matters of faith. Thus we haue seene, what is to be thought of Popish vnitie.

Now to answere briefly to their false accusation, whereby they charge vs with manifold schismes and dissentions: yea Bellarmin is not ashamed to say, that an hundred seuerall sectes are sprong amongest vs. cap. 10. lib. 4. de Eccles.

1 We say with S. Paule: oportet haereses esse. 1. Cor. 11. there must be heresies and diuisions in the Church. And it is a signe we haue the truth, when the de∣uill goeth about by schismes and contentions to hinder the preaching there∣of. We answere to you, as Augustine did to the paganes. Non proferant nobis quasi concordiam suam: hostem quippe, quem patimur, illi non patiuntur: Let them not boast of their concord, and cast in our teeth the dissention of Chri∣stians: the enemie assaulteth not them as he doth vs: Quid ibi luchri est, quia litigant, vel damni si litigant: the deuill shall get nothing if they should disagree, nor lose any thing by their agreement: for he hath sure hold enough of them already, consenting all in Idolatrie. But amongest Christians he laboureth to hinder the truth by discord, because he can not otherwise withdraw them frō the true Religion. Hearken now (ô ye Papistes) if you consent together, it is in euill: so long it pleaseth the deuill well enough: he should destroy his owne kingdome in sowing dissention amongest you, for you fight for him. He vseth to cast fire brands amongest good Christians, to withstand by this meanes the proceeding of the Gospell.

2 It is a great sclaunder, that there are so many diuisions amongest vs: an hundred saith the Iesuite, but he shall neuer proue ten. He might haue be∣thought him selfe of a full hundred of sectes amongest his owne darlings the Monkes and Friers, as M. Fox hath faithfully gathered the number. pag. 260.

3 Those few schismes and dissentions, which we haue (and yet to many, we must needes confesse) are not about points of faith, and articles of Re∣ligion: but concerning some things belonging to discipline and Church gouernement: which matters we denie not, but haue bene somewhat to hotely and egerlie folowed of some amongest vs: but God be thanked, this contention hath not bene pursued by fire or death, as the Franciscanes did persecute the poore Dominickes: nor yet to the pronouncing of ech o∣ther heretikes, as Eugenius your Pope was condemned as an hereticke in the Councell of Basile.

Page  63
The fift Note of the power of working miracles.

THis they affirme both to be necessarie in the Church, to haue power to work [error 22] miracles, for the confirmation of the faith, when there is any extraordinarie chaunge or innouation of religion, and that it is a sufficient note to describe the Church: for it cannot bee, say they, but that, wheresoeuer this power is found, there should be the true Church.

And hereupon they take occasion to extoll the miracles of their Church: be∣ginning at the Apostles time, and so in euerie age they take vpon them to shew, that their Church neuer wanted those that were endued with this power. Bellar. cap. 14.

We answere. First, the gift of miracles doth no more prooue that to bee the true Church where they are wrought, then they to be holie men and elected of God, that doe them: The Magicians wrought many straunge things in Aegypt, cōtending a great while with Moses: Antichrist shal come working with signes and wonders. 2. Thessal. 2. Therefore this proueth not a Church. But heere they haue a double euasion: these were false miracles, wrought by the diuell, as those of the Magicians, or els but forged, and onely to the eye, and in outward appea∣rance, as Antichrist is sayd to come with lying wonders. We replye. First, they are called lying wonders, not that they are done in shewe onely, and haue no such thing indeede, but because they are wrought to confirme lyes, and discre∣dite the trueth. Secondly, your miracles are very like to be such, both wrought by the power of the diuell, and some of them but iugling feates of cousoners. Thirdly, yet a wicked man may haue power to worke miracles, not in shewe, but verily and indeed, as to cast out diuels, and to doe it in the name and power of Christ, and yet be none of Christs disciples. Matth. 7.22.

2 Concerning your miracles wee answere, that they are either fables, and old wiues tales, and no credite to bee giuen vnto them, or els they are one of those two sorts, whereof Augustine speaketh:*Remoueantur ista vel mendacia fallacium hominum, vel portenta mēdacium spirituum. Away with those miracles, which are either cousoning trickes of deceitfull men, or wonders of lying spirits.

First, Monkish fables are not a whit daintie with our Romish Catholikes, their Legendes are full of them: As that of Berinus, how being in the middest of the sea, sayling into France, hauing forgotten somewhat at home,* went back walking vpon the sea, and came to them againe hauing not one thred of his garment wet. Many like tales are reported of Aldelmus Abbot of Malmesbu∣rie, as how he caused an infant at Rome of nine daies olde to speake, to cleare Sergius the Pope, who was thought to be his father: how he drew along a great piece of timber, that went to the making of the Church at Malmesburie. Such good stuffe also they haue of Iohn of Beuerley, of Egwine Abbot of Euesham, who when he had locked his feete in fetters, and cast the key into the sea, afterward a fish brought the key againe into the ship where he was sayling. Reade M. Foxe Page  64 pag. 125. All these and a thousand more are but Monkish fables and dreames, whatsoeuer the Iesuite maketh of them.

Secondly, it is out of doubt, that some of them were well practised with the diuell, and through his helpe could doe much. We will begin with Dunstane, who caused a Roode to speake, which was more strange, then that of Balaams asse: for the asse had life, though she had no reason, but this image had neither: Polidore Virgil thinketh little better of Dunstane for this deede doing, but that he was a sorcerer. Fox. pag. 158.

It is famous in histories, how Siluester the 2. was aduaunced to the Papacie by the diuell, and gaue himselfe vnto him, and how, hauing some remorse be∣fore his death, he confessed the fact before the people, and willed that his bodie should be drawne of wilde horse when he was dead,* and there be buried where the horse left it of their owne accord. How much such diabolicall practises are fauoured by the sea of Rome, may appeare by this one example, which we will now touch: In Pope Adrians dayes, not many yeares agoe, there was a most ab∣hominable thing practised in Rome, euen vnder the Popes nose, and by his per∣mission and sufferance. The citie of Rome being at that time grieuouslie scour∣ged and punished of God with the pestilence, there was one Demetrius a Gre∣cian, who with the good liking of the whole citie, to appease the wrath of their gods, tooke a wild Bull, whom with magicall enchantments he made so tame, that he led him with a twine thred,* and so sacrificed him: And this being done, the sicknes somewhat slaked. Call ye this the Church of God, that suffreth such heathenish and abhominable superstitions to be done in it? Or shall I take these men for Christians, that doe allow the idolatrous and diuellish sacrifices of the heathen?

Thirdly, let vs see what pretie fine iugling casts haue been wrought by the Papists to deceiue the people. In King Henries dayes, there was a monstrous Idoll called the Rood of grace, which was made so with wiers and ingins, that one standing within could make euery part of the Idoll to moue, the hands, the eyes, the mouth: if a man brought but a small piece of siluer, it would hang downe the lippe; if it were a good piece, then should his iawes goe merilie: This abhominable Idoll by the Lord Cromwels meanes was broken downe, and the engines and parts thereof shewed at Paules Crosse. Such a like thing was the bloud of Hales, which they made the people beleeue was some of Christs bloud, but in the ende it was found to be but the bloud of a drake, and shewed likewise at Paules Crosse. Fox. pag. 1188. At Calis in the Sepulchre, it was said, there were three hostes besprinkled with bloud (as it was put in writing vnder Bull and Pardon:) but the place being searched at King Henries commaunde∣ment, they found three white counters sodred in the stone with the top-bone of a sheepes tayle. pag. 1223. A thousand such forged deuises the Papists had, which they are not ashamed to maintaine for straunge and holy miracles. By this that hath been shewed, it is euident (I hope) to the indifferent reader, what small cause our aduersaries haue, to boast of their miracles.

Page  653 Now to adde somewhat concerning the miracles of our Church. First, we truely say, that our doctrine is not newe nor straunge, and therefore, they are not to call for miracles at our hands. The miracles of Christ and his Apostles, are al∣so our miracles, seeing we professe the same doctrine, which was confirmed by those miracles. Secondly, yet, the Lord be thanked, we are not destitute of mi∣racles, as Augustine saith: Modò caro caeci non aperit oculos miraculo domini, at cor caecum aperit oculos sermone domini. Now, saith he, the blind doth not receiue his bodily sight by the power of Christ, but the blind heart is lightened and illu∣minate through the Gospell of Christ: Such miracles (the Lord be blessed) we can shewe: sinners are conuerted, afflicted consciences are comforted, the ig∣norant are instructed, many are called by the preaching of the Gospell. Third∣ly, if this will not content them, but they still crye with open mouth, and say, where are your miracles? Behold, to stop their wide and clamorous mouth, we will shewe them also such miracles, as they looke for, like to which they haue none. Was not that a miracle, which Oecolampadius reporteth to haue been done at the Martyrdome of Master Hugh Spengler: who being cast into the wa∣ter and so drowned, presently all the water was coloured with bloud,* he hauing receiued no wound nor hurt in his bodie before: at the which all the people were greatly amazed?

But what thinke you of that straunge signe which George Scherrer shewed at his death, who being beheaded, the bodie lay a pretie space vpon the bellie, till one might haue eaten an egge, and then turned it selfe vpon the backe, & cros∣sed the right hand ouer the left, and the right legge ouer the left: the Magi∣strates seeing it, hauing condemned his bodie to be burned before, being mo∣ued at the sight hereof, caused it to be buried. Fox ex Math. Illyrico.

It is worth the remembring, that is reported in the French stories of Petrus Burgerius a blessed Martyr: who was cast into a filthie dungeon, where a theefe had lien the space of eight moneths, being almost eaten vp with lice, and in such miserie, that he cursed his parents that bare him. This man through the teach∣ing and the prayers of the Martyr, felt such comfort in the Gospell, that he be∣came very patient in his affliction: and after his conuersion this straunge thing was wrought vpon him: that whereas before he was so full of lice,* that he might haue plucked out twelue at once betweene two of his fingers, the next day he had not one.

Now, because the Iesuite hath such a spite at Luther (he is a great eye sore to him) we will in a word or two declare what straunge things were wrought by Luther. It is credible reported of him, that a certaine young man had bound himselfe by obligation to the diuell, sealed with his bloud to giue him his soule, so he might haue his wish and desire satisfied with money: In short time hee grewe to great wealth: the matter being disclosed with much adoe to Luther, he calleth the congregation together, and ioyneth in prayer for this yong man: and as they prayed, the obligation was cast in at the windowe.* A notable and straunge miracle, which is crediblie reported of Luther.

Page  66He was a man feruent in prayer: one might haue seen the teares falling from his eyes as he prayed: And as he was earnest in prayer, so his prayers wanted not effect, for as he himselfe confessed, he had obtayned of God, that so long as he liued, the Pope should not preuayle in his countrey. And is not this also a thing to be wondred at, that for all the Pope and Emperour ioyned together, & bent their forces against this silly poore man; yet the Lord defended him from the Lyons teeth, and graunted him to end his dayes in peace?

Thus it is apparant and manifest, that the Lorde sheweth his miraculous power manie times in his Saints, to astonish the wicked: The great miracles which haue been declared in their holy martyrdomes, would fil a large volume: And by the grace of God, hereafter we may haue occasion in an other treatise of purpose, more at large to publish them. But these arguments wee doe not chiefly stand vpon: Yet thus much was not amisse by the way to be put in, to requite our aduersaries withall, who doe so greatly magnifie and extoll their Antichristian Church, for their lying and fayned miracles.

The sixte Note of the gift of Prophecying.

[error 23] THis also our aduersaries holde to be a perpetuall marke, whereby to knowe the Church: for they say that the true Church of GOD wanteth not those which are endewed with the spirit of prophecie: And so they beare vs in hand, that in euery age there hath flourished some Prophet in their Church: the first, that the Church shall alwayes haue Prophets, they would prooue out of Ioel 2. I will power of my spirit vpon all flesh. The second, that they haue had such prophets, they do infer vppon a few forged examples, of Saint Barnard, and S. Frauncis, a popish Saint, and the founder of the superstitious order of the Fran∣ciscanes.

To the first we aunswere. 1. The prophecie of Ioel was accomplished in the Apostles time, Act. 2. as S. Peter expoundeth it, and therefore we need not looke further for the fulfilling of it. 2. The Church of the Iewes wanted Pro∣phets for the space of 4. hundred years and more before the comming of Christ: for we read of no Prophet after Malachy: and the Church complayneth of this want, Psalm. 74. verse. 9. that they had Prophets no more: wherefore, the Church of God after the comming of Christ, may better spare this extraordina∣ry function of prophecying, seeing both Christ is already come, who was the ve∣ry subiect and matter of all the auncient prophecies: And wee haue also most euident prophecies of the Apostles, Rom. 11. cōcerning the calling of the Iewes, 2. Thes. 2. of Antichrist, in the Apocalipse of the general estate & conditiō of the Church to the end of the world: Som of which are already accomplished, som to be fulfilled in their seasō: In these prophecies we must rest & cōtent our selues, not looking for new reuelations. 3. There haue been Prophets amongst the hea∣then, out of the Church of God: they also can bring foorth diuers olde prophe∣cies: so that if the issue lay in this poynt, they might as well contend to be the Page  67 Church of God.*Astiages dreamed that hee sawe a Vine growing out of his daughter, that couered all Asia: which came to passe in Cyrus. Augustine re∣porteth a prophecie of Hermes Trismegistus,* how that all the Images and Idols of the heathen should be broken downe through all Aegypt. The Indians were foretolde of the Spaniards comming many a yeare before their arriuall in those places: Their Zemes, that is, their diuels, which they worshipped as Gods, told them, that there should come a people with long beards, fierce and cruell, that at one stroke should strike men off by the middle: And all these thinges fell out afterwards to that nation accordingly.*

But they wil answere, that these were not true prophecies inspired of God, but vncertaine predictions of the diuell. What will they say then to Balaam, that prophecied of Christ? there shall come a starre of Iacob (saith he) Numb. 24.17, and in the same place he sayth, he heard the words of God.

The prophecies also of Sibill are wonderfull: which many yeares before the comming of Christ, prophecied of his incarnation, and of his passion, with the circumstances thereof, as how he should be crowned with thornes, that they should giue him vineger to drinke, how the vaile of the temple should be rent, & darknes should couer the earth for three houres: & he himself should rise the third day: yea she setteth down the very name of the Messiah, Iesus Christ.* These prophecies came not of the diuell, for these mysteries, without all doubt were not known to the euill spirits: for they were not fully reuealed to the Angels thē∣selues before the cōming of Christ. Eph. 3.10. Wherfore we conclude thus, that as the gift of prophecying is no sure signe that they are mēbers of the Church & elected of God, which are endued with it: as Christ saith, Math 7.22. that many which had prophecied in his name, in the day of iudgemēt should be refused: & Balaam is set forth as an example of a false Prophet & wicked mā: Ep. Iude. 11: so neither is this gift an infallible mark of the Church of God, whersoeuer it is foūd.

To the second part, concerning this miraculous gift which our aduersaries pretend to haue: we answere. 1. They are but fables which they bring: for if al that is reported of Saint Bernard in his life, of his miracles, and prophecies, were true, neither S. Paul nor any of the Apostles were to be compared vnto him for number of miracles: such casting out of diuels out of men, women and chil∣dren, healing of strange diseases, foretelling of thinges to come: the Gospell almost hath not stranger things of our Sauiour Christ.

As for Saint Francis, you may gesse by this, what spirit he was of, that pre∣scribing to his followers, a certaine strict order of liuing, as to wear no girdle, to goe barefoote, and such like, he called it regulam euangelicam, the rule of the Gospell: belike making himselfe an other Christ, and so bringing in another Gospel: for to all Christs Disciples Christs Gospel is sufficient. 2. But if they haue any prophecies of credit, which they can shew, they are such, as are repor∣ted, of Pope Siluester the 2. who had warrant from the diuel; that he should not die before he sung Masse in Ierusalem: and so it came to passe, for hauing sung Masse in a chappell so called, he immediately dyed. Not much vnlike to this was that of king Henry the 4. who ended his life in a chamber at Westminster Page  68 called Ierusalem, as he had an olde prophecie. Edward the 4. also was tolde that his successours name should begin with G. which was the cause of George the Duke of Clarence death, his owne brother: but the diuelish prophecie not∣withstanding tooke place,* for Richard Duke of Glocester was king after him. In like manner Valence the Emperour had a blind prophecie, that one should raigne after him, whose name began with Theod. which made Theodorus to re∣bell against him: but so it came to passe in deede, that Theodosius was Empe∣rour after him. Such blinde prophecies we denie not but the popish Church hath had many, which as you see, doo cause murder, sedition, and bloodshed: but other good prophecies comming of GOD, wee knowe them not to haue any.

3. Wee denie not, but that there haue liued some amongst them in their Church, which in those dayes were counted Prophets and Prophetisses, as Hil∣degardis, anno 1146. likewise Briget, Catherine Seuensis: whom Bellarmine rec∣koneth vp amongst others that wrought miracles. cap. 14. but concerning these we wil answere, as the Iesuite doth for Sibilla a Prophetisse amongst the heathē: that she prophecied as touching such matters as should fall out to the Church, for a testimonie of the faith of the Christians: And so to bee counted herein a Prophetisse of the Church rather than of the heathen. cap. 15. so wee say, that if those three abouenamed were Prophetisses, they were of our Church, and not theirs: for they prophesied of the decay of their Church and raising vp of ours. Hildegardis first prophecied of the beginning of Friers, and of their destruction, saying, that in the end, when their gifts and rewards ceased, they should goe about their houses like hungrie and madde dogges,* drawing in their neckes like doues. Briget prophesied of the Church of Rome, that it should be as a bo∣dy condemned of a iudge, to haue the skinne flayne off, and the flesh to bee cut in peeces: Catherine de Senis, speaketh of a reformation of the Church, & such a renouation of Pastors: that the onely remembrance thereof sayth she, mketh my spirite to reioyce in the Lord.* All these things we see nowe accomplished: the sects of Friers in many places put downe: the Popish iurisdiction cast out; a notable reformation to be wrought in the Church. Our aduersaries (I thinke) haue not to reioyce in these prophecies: neither haue any great cause to cha∣lenge them for their Prophets. But I will help them a little, and bring to their remembrance a notable Prophetisse of theirs in king Henry the 8. dayes, which was one Elizabeth Barton, a Nun, commonly called, the holy mayd of Kent, who beeing instructed by the Friers, fayned, as though she had many reuelati∣ons: she prophecied, that if the king proceeded in his diuorce, then in question betweene him and Q. Catherine, that hee should not be king one yeare, no not one moneth: But (GOD bee thanked) hee liued almoste twenty yeares after that, by whom many worthy things were wrought for the good of Christs Church. This prophetisse was afterward iustly met withall, and worthily suffe∣red for her demerites, with all her accomplices: amongst the which, Fisher B. of Rochester was one,* who thereupon was imprisoned, and forfayted his Page  69 goods to the King. If they will bragge of their Prophets, let not the holy mayd of Kent be forgotten in any wise.

4. Now lastly because they shall not outface vs with a vaine brag of Pro∣phets: I will shew what prophesies the Gospell hath beene adorned withall. Was not Iohn Husse a Prophet, who thus sayd at his death: centum reuolutis an∣nis deo respondebitis: after an hundred years you shall giue account of this your doing vnto God? Likewise Hierome of Prage, post centum annos vos omnes cito: I cite you all to make answere after an hundred yeares. Which prophesie of theirs tooke effect accordingly: for both these holy men suffered martyrdome about anno 1416. and iust an hundred yeares after, anno 1516. the Lord raysed vp Luther, who indeede called the Pope and his doctrine to account.

Was not Sauonarola a Prophet, that sayd one should passe ouer the Alpes like Cyrus, who should destroy all Italie? and is it not so come to passe? for nei∣ther Cyrus, nor whosoeuer els could haue more layde wast the popish Italian Church then the word of God hath done, and the liuely preaching of the Gos∣pell. Walter Brute prophecied that the temporalities should be taken from the Clergie for the multitude of their sinnes:* this Walter liued in king Richards dayes the second. Bilney that constant martyr and faythful seruant of God pro∣phecied, that many Preachers should come after him, which should preach the same fayth that hee had taught, and should conuert many from their errors. And many such examples wee haue of holy martyrs and worthy Prophets: But we hereby doe not proue our Church: Yet this I hope hath not been out of the way, to haue aunswered a little to our aduersaries vaine and vntrue bragges.

Hitherto, we haue touched the principall notes and markes whereby the Papists doe decipher out their Church vnto vs: Now it followeth, that we de∣clare the right and certaine signes of the true Church.

Of the true and infallible Notes of the Church of Christ.

THe outward tokens whereby the true visible Church is discerned, are not many in number, as our aduersaries doe reckon vp many: the Iesuite no lesse than 15. supplying belike in number that which they want in waight. Neither in this place doe we speake of the vniuersal Catholike inuisible Church which is beleeued and not seen, being an article of our faith: but of particular visible Churches, which are discerned and knowen by these two essentiall markes, the true preaching of the word, and right vse of the sacraments: Some also doe adde a third, namely, ecclesiasticall discipline. Beza confess. de eccles. art: 7. Hooper vpon the Creede articul: 72. But this partly is comprehended in the 2. former: for there cannot be hearing & preaching of the worde, & the fre∣quenting of the sacraments, vnlesse there bee an exercise of Church discipline: partly also we say that it is not so essential a note, as the other are: for the absence of the other make a nullity of the Church: If the word or sacramēts in substance Page  70 be corrupted, the Church also is defaced: but if there be not an exact forme of discipline, it doth not straightway cease to be a Church: Wherfore we conclude, that the true preaching of the word, and right vse of the sacraments, are the on∣ly necessary and essentiall notes of the Church: Where these two are rightly vsed according to Gods worde, there is a right Church, as here in England God be blessed: Where they are falsely and impurely handled, there is a false and cor∣rupt Church, as among the Papists: where they are not at all in vse, there is no Church, as amongst the Turkes, Iewes, and Infidels. First we will examine our aduersaries arguments, and then bring foorth our owne.

The Papistes.

1. BEllarmine thus argueth: the true notes of the Church ought to be proper and particular, not common and generall, as these are: for euery sect of he∣reticks doe chalenge to themselues the right preaching of the word, and vsage of the sacraments. Ergo they are no true notes.

We answere. 1. It skilleth not how many do lay clayme to those notes: the word of God it self is a manifest iudge, where pure doctrine is taught, and the sacraments rightly kept according to the institution. It is no matter, howso∣euer Papists and other heretickes doe make their bragges, the scriptures them∣selues can soone decide this question. 2. I maruaile they are not ashamed to obiect, that our notes are common, seeing theirs are most common: for not on∣ly assemblies of hereticks, but euen the heathen and Idolatrous Gentiles might as well prooue themselues to be the Church, by those popish notes, of vniuer∣salitie, for Idolatrie had ouer-spread the whole world; of vnitie, they all consen∣ted to persecute the Church of Christ; of antiquitie, for the worship of Idols continued aboue two thousand yeares: of succession, for the monarch of the Assyrians endured 1300. yeares, their kings all this while one succeeding ano∣ther. They had also Prophets, and such as wrought miracles. Our aduersaries may be now ashamed to cast vs in the teeth, that our notes are common, when as theirs doe well agree to the Synagogues of Sathan, and assemblies of In∣fidels.

2. Sayth he, the note or the marke must be better knowen and more no∣torious, then the thing marked or notified by it: so are not these: for we know not which is the worde of God, nor what bookes are canonicall, and to be ta∣ken for scripture, but by the Church.

We answere: the Iesuite still beggeth that which is in question: a foule fault in a professed disputer: for haue we not largely prooued before 1. contr. quaest. 4. that the Church dependeth vpon the authoritie of the scripture, and not con∣trariwise, and that there is no more certaine and euident and vndoubted thing in the whole world, vpon the which a man may bee bolde to builde and ground his faith, then vpon the scriptures? This sure is a childish and ridicu∣lous argument, to take that as graunted, which is most of all in controuersie.

Page  713 The true notes (sayth hee) are inseparable from the Church: it is neuer without them. But many true Churches haue wanted these: The Church of the Corinthians was a true Church, and yet they beleeued not the resurrection. cap. 15. The Galathians were a true Church, and yet they held that Moses lawe was to bee obserued together with the Gospell. And, the Corinthians likewise did not sincerely obserue the Sacraments. 1. Corinth. 11. Ergo, they are no true signes.

We answere. First, this argument may with better right bee returned vpon their owne head: for many true Churches haue wanted their markes: Christ and his Apostles had neither succession from Aaron, nor vniuersalitie, and yet they made the true Church. The Church of the Iewes after Malachies time had no Prophets, nor miracles, for the space of 400. yeares before Christ, & yet were they the true Church, and so of the rest of your notes, the Church of Christ hath many times wanted them. Secondly, It was not the whole Church of Co∣rinthus that doubted of the resurrection, but certaine false Apostles that labou∣red to seduce others. 1. Corinth. 15.34. Some of you (sayth the Apostle) haue not the knowledge of God: he saith, not all. So likewise amongst the Galathians, there were false teachers, that stood for the lawe of Moses: Galath. 5.9. a little leauen doth marre the whole lumpe. It was not therefore a publike doctrine in the Church, but secretly taught by false Apostles. Thirdly, there may be some error in the Church, but being not fundamental, such an one as destroyeth faith, it doth not dissolue the Church: as there was some abuse amongst the Corin∣thians in receiuing the Sacrament: but the forme and institution and substance of the Sacrament was kept. Nay, yet to graunt a little more: though the error bee daungerous and of great waight and moment, and such an one, as being stifely maintained would destroye the faith and Church too: yet if they haue fallen into it rather of ignorance, then any other cause, and doe not continue in it, but doe submit themselues to bee reformed by the word, it ceaseth not for all that to be a Church. So the Corinthians referred themselues wholly and their opinions to the iudgement and determination of the Apostle. Hetherto our aduersaries haue sayd nothing agaynst vs: now wee will say somewhat for our selues.

The Protestants.

1 FOr the sufficiencie of these Notes, we would desire no better arguments, then those which our aduersaries alleadged against vs: for first our notes are proper onely to the Church, and cannot bee found in any place, where the Church of God is not. Secondly, they are most notorious markes, and a man by the Scriptures may more easely knowe, what true doctrine is, and which are the right Sacraments, then which is the true Church. Thirdly, these markes can not be absent from the Church, but doe alwayes accompanie it, and it is no lon∣ger a true Church, then it hath those markes.

Page  722 We are able out of the Scriptures to proue these marks, which may stand in stead of many reasons. Iohn 10. my sheepe heare my voyce: Ephes. 5. clensing it by the washing of water through the word: Ergo, the Word and Sacraments are true notes of the Church.

Bellarmine answereth to the first place, that the hearing of the word, is not a visible note of the Church, but a signe vnto euery man, whereby he may knowe his election. Wee replie agayne: looke which way a man is knowne to bee a member of the Church, by the same way the Church also it selfe is discerned: if the hearing of the word doe make one a sheep of Christ, then doth it also shew which is the flocke and fould of Christ: As I knowe my hand or foote to bee a part of my bodie, because it hath life and motion of the bodie: euen so the bo∣die is discerned from a carkas, because it moueth and liueth.

To the second place he answereth, very simply: that the Apostle there sheweth not, which is the Church, but what good Christ hath wrought for his Church. We replie againe: But the Church is best knowne by the benefites that Christ hath bestowed vpon it, amongst the which the Word and the Sacraments are not the least: Ergo, by these the Church is knowne, and in that place by the A∣postle described: And let the reader iudge, whether that place of the Apostle, where there is direct mention made of the word and sacraments, be not fitly ap∣plied to our purpose, concerning the description of the Church.

3 Let Augustine speake: In scripturis didicimus Christum, in scripturis didi∣cimus ecclesiam: epistol. 166. In the scripture we doe learne Christ, in the scrip∣ture let vs likewise learne the Church. His argument is this: Looke how Christ is knowne, so is his Church, but Christ is onely knowne by his word: Ergo, so is his Church.

The fourth question of the authoritie of the Church.

THe Papists affirme, that the authoritie of the Church consisteth in these fiue poynts. First, in authorising the scriptures, and defining, which are Canoni∣call. Secondly, in giuing the sense of the scripture. Thirdly, in determining mat∣ters besides scripture. Fourthly, in making lawes & constitutions for the Church. Fiftly, in exercising of discipline.

Concerning the two last, we doe not greatly stand with them. We acknow∣ledge the Church hath authoritie to make decrees and constitutions, but so, as the Apostles did: Visum est nobis & spiritui sancto, It seemed good to vs and the holy Ghost: the Church must be directed by the wisedome of the spirit speak∣ing in the scriptures.

We also acknowledge the holesome power of the Church in exercising of holy discipline: but it must be done in the name and power of Christ. 1. Cor. 5.4. not according to the will of men.

Concerning the two first: we haue alreadie shewed, that neither the Church doth giue authoritie to the word of God, but doth take her authoritie from thē: Page  73 for the scriptures are of sufficient credite of themselues. 1. controu. quaest. 4. Nei∣ther that the sense of scripture dependeth vpon the interpretation of the scrip∣ture, but that the word expoundeth it selfe: 1. controu. quaest. 6.

There remaineth therefore onely one poynt to be discussed of the authoritie of the Church: namely in deciding of matters beside the scriptures: which are of two sorts, either necessarie appertayning to faith, or indifferent concerning ceremonies: of both these in their order.

THE FIRST PART, WHETHER THE CHVRCH hath authoritie in matters of faith beside the scriptures.
The Papists.

WE ought to take our faith and al necessarie things of saluation at the hands [error 24] of our superiours. Rhemist. Act. 10. sect. 8. In poynts not decided by scrip∣ture wee must aske counsaile of the Church. Praefat. sect. 25. The Church is the onely piller and stay to leane vnto in all doubts of doctrine, without the which there can be no certaintie nor securitie: we must therefore beleeue it and trust it in all things. annot. 1. Timoth. cap. 3. sect. 9. Yea it hath authoritie say they, to make newe Articles of faith:* as in the Councell of Constance it was decreed to be necessarie to saluation, to beleeue the Pope to be head of the Church. In the Councell of Basile it was made an Article of the faith, to beleeue that the Coun∣cell was aboue the Pope, and therfore Pope Eugenius in not obeying the Coun∣cell was adiudged to be an heretike.

1 Vpon these words in the Gospel. Iohn. 15.27. the spirit shall testifie of me, and you shall beare witnesse also: they conclude thus: Ergo, the testimonie of the trueth ioyntly consisteth in the holy Ghost and Prelates of the Church. Rhe∣mist. Iohn. 15. sect. 8.

We answere. The witnesse of the spirit, and of the Apostles, is all one wit∣nesse: for the spirit first testifieth the trueth to the Apostles inwardly, and the A∣postles inspired by the spirite did witnesse it outwardly: so the Pastors of the Church witnessing with the spirit, which is not now inspired by reuelation, but onely found in the scriptures, are to bee heard: but if the spirit testifie one thing in the word, and they testifie another, there we must leaue them.

2 The Church erreth not: Ergo, we must heare her in all things. Rhem. 1. Ti∣moth. 3. sect. 9. We answere. First, the Church may erre, if she followe not the scriptures. Proued before. 2. controu. quaest. 2. Secondly, so long as the Church heareth Christs voyce, we are likewise to heare hers: and so long as she is pre∣serued from error, she will not swarue from Christs precepts, neither impose a∣ny thing vpon her children, without the warrant of her spouse.

Page  74
The Protestantes.

THat the Church hath no such power to ordaine articles of faith, or impose matters to be beleeued necessarie to saluation not contayned, or prescri∣bed in the holy scriptures: We prooue it thus, and wee are sure, that the true Church of Christ will neuer chalenge any such prerogatiue.

1. All truthes and verities in the scriptures are not so necessary to saluation, that the ignorance thereof should bring perill of damnation: Ergo much lesse are any verities out of scripture of any such necessitie: the first is manifest: for to know the iust chronologie of time or space of yeares, from the beginning of the world to Christ, is a veritie in scripture, yet not necessary: so to beleeue that Marie continued a virgin euer after the birth of our Lord, was thought by Ba∣sile to be no necessarie poynt to saluation, if wee did hold her to haue beene a virgin afore: and many such other poyntes there are in scriptures, which a man may be ignorant of without perill of saluation, Ergo much more may we be ig∣norant of vnwritten verities, or rather Popish fables.

2. The Church hath no more authoritie then the Apostles, nor yet in all things so much: But they had no power to make articles of faith: for Saint Paul deliuereth that which he had receiued concerning the sacrament, he durst not adde vnto it, as the Papists haue been bolde to doe since, 1. Cor. 11. Ergo the Church may explane and open articles of fayth out of the scriptures, but not make new.

3. We prooue it by the confession of our aduersaries. The fathers of Basile, that concluded, it was an article of the Christian fayth to beleeue the superiori∣tie of the councel,* did gather it out of the saying of Christ, dic ecclesiae, and ther∣fore enforced it as an article. Whereby wee gather, that they helde, that the Church could establish no article of fayth without scripture. Bellarmine like∣wise sayth, that the Church is not now gouerned by newe reuelations, but wee ought to be contented with those decrees, which wee haue receiued from the Apostles:*Ergo, as D. Whitakers doth strongly conclude, the Church cannot coyne new articles of faith.

4. Lastly, we haue before prooued at large out of the worde of God, that the scriptures containe all things necessary to saluation: and therefore all arti∣cles of fayth must be deriued from thence. 1. controu. quaest. 7. And so we con∣clude with Augustine:*Linguae sonos, quibus inter se homines sua seusa communicēt, pacto quodā societatis sibi instituere possunt: Quib. autē sacris diuinitati congru∣erent, voluntatem dei sequuti sunt, qui rectè sapuerunt: Quae omnino nunquam defuit ad salutem iustitiae pietati{que} hominum. Men, sayth he, may deuise among themselues what language they will vse to expresse their minde: But howe to serue God, wise men euer followed the will and commaundement of GOD▪ which neuer hath failed men in all necessary matters concerning righteousnes and godlines. By this fathers sentence, the scriptures, which containe the will of God, containe all necessary things. Ergo, we neede not seeke elswhere.

Page  75
AN APPENDIX OR MEMBER OF THIS part of the question, whether we are to beleeue in the Church.
The Papists.

WE ought to beleeue and trust the Church in all things: yea to beleeue in the Church. Rhemist. 1. Tim. 3. sect. 9. the scripture also vseth this speech [error 25] to beleeue in men. annot. in 10. Rom. sect. 41.

1. Exod. 14.31. they beleeued in God and Moses. Ergo. We answere, your owne vulgar text hath it, crediderunt deo & Mosi seruo eius: they beleeued God and his seruant Moses: that is, hauing seene the great power of God in the de∣struction of the Aegyptians in the red sea, according to the word of Moses, they gaue credite vnto Moses, which spake vnto them from God.

2. Philem. v. 5. Hearing of thy loue and fayth which thou hast toward the Lord Iesus and vnto all the saints. See, say they, here is faith toward the saints.

Wee answere: there is no man, that is not peruersly disposed, but may easily distinguish the Apostles wordes: to attribute fayth to Iesus Christ, and loue to the saynts: Which may appeare by the altering of the preposition, as they themselues read in their owne translation, loue and fayth in Iesus Christ, and toward the sayntes: so it must needes bee thus vnderstoode, fayth in Christ, and loue toward the sayntes: this therefore is but a sophisticall cauill.

The Protestants.

THis word, Credo, beleeue, is taken three wayes: for there is credere deo, to be∣leeue God, that is to trust him in all things, credere deum, to beleeue God to be, credere in deum, to beleeue in God, as our creator, Lord, and redeemer. So we doe credere ecclesiam, we beleeue there is one holy Catholicke Church: credere ecclesiae, we doe also beleeue and giue credence to the Church, follow∣ing the word of God: But we do not in any wise credere in ecclesiam, beleeue in the Church.

1. We must not beleeue or put any confidence in a creature: the Church is but a creature, Ergo: for to beleeue in God, is onely proper to the Godhead: and therefore, Iohn 14.1. where Christ sayth, ye beleeue in God, beleeue also in me: we doe necessarylie out of these words inferre, that Christ is God, because we are commaunded to beleeue in him.

2. Fayth is of things that are absent, and not seene: but the Church is pre∣sent alwayes vpon earth, and alwayes visible, as our aduersaryes hold: how then can it bee an obiect of our fayth? We can not beleeue in that which is visible & seene, for it is agaynst the nature of fayth.

3. Augustine sayth, sciendum est, quòd ecclesiam credere, non tamen in ecclesiam credere debemus, quia ecclesia non est deus sed domus dei: De tēpore serm. 131. We Page  76 must know, that we are to beleeue there is a Church, not in the Church, for the Church is not God, but onely the house of God.

THE SECOND PARTE OF THE QVESTION concerning the ceremonies of the Church.
The Papists.

THey doe holde that the Church of God may vse and blesse diuers elements [error 26] and creatures for the seruice of God: as holy water to driue away diuels: the hallowing of salt, waxe, fire, palmes, ashes, oyle, creame, milke, honey, Rhe∣mist. 1. tim. 4. sect. 12. & 13. Yea that the Church may borrow rites and ce∣remonies of the Iewes: ibid. sect. 18. Yea by the creatures thus blessed, or ra∣ther coniured, they say, remission of sinnes is obtayned, sect. 14.

2. Remission of sinnes was annexed to the oyle wherewith the sicke were annoynted, Iames 5. Ergo, remissions of sinnes may be applied by the like con∣secrated elements, Rhemist. 1. Tim. 4. sect. 14.

We answere: First, it followeth not, because the creature of oyle was vsed in the miraculous gift of healing, which ceremonie was no longer to continue, than that miraculous gift indured: it followeth not, that other elements may be vsed so now, there being not the like occasion, seeing all such myraculous giftes are now ceased. Secondly, it was not the oyle whereby their sinnes were forgiuen them, neither was it applied to that ende, it was onely a pledge vnto them of their bodily health: but the prayer of fayth shall saue the sick, sayth the Apostle, v. 15. for God hath promised to heare the faythfull prayers of his children both for themselues and others.

3. Saint Paul vsed imposition of hands, which was a ceremonie of the law vsed in consecrating of Priestes. Ergo, it is lawfull to borrowe ceremonies of the Iewes.

We answere: It followeth not, because Christ and the Apostles by the spi∣rite of God retayned some decent actions vsed in the lawe, therefore now the Church at her libertie may take of the Iewish ceremonies: this is great pre∣sumption, to thinke it is lawfull for the Church to doe whatsoeuer Christ and his Apostles did. Fulk. 1. Tim. 4. sect. 18.

The Protestants.

ALthough there be great moderation to bee vsed in the ceremonies of the Church, and there is also some limitation for them: yet hath the Church greater libertie in the rites and ceremonies, which are appoynted for order and comelinesse sake, then in the doctrine of fayth and religion: The doctrine of saluation is alwayes the same, and cannot be changed, and toucheth the con∣science: But rites and ceremonies are externall, and commanded for order sake: and neither are they vniuersall, the same in euery Church, nor perpetuall, but are Page  77 changed according to times, and as there is occasion. Againe, the precepts of Christianitie are either directly expressed, or necessarilie concluded out of the scriptures: but externall rites and ceremonies are not particularlie declared in the word: there are onely certaine generall rules set downe, according to the which all ceremonies brought into the Church, are to bee examined: as for the Sacraments of the Church, they cannot bee altered, hauing a perpetuall com∣mandement from Christ: Therefore the Church cannot appoynt, what, how many ceremonies soeuer she shall thinke good, but according to these foure rules and conditions, which followe here in order.

1 All things ought to bee done to the glorie of God, euen in ciuill actions, much more in things appertayning to the seruice of God, 1. Cor. 10.31. Our ad∣uersaries offend agaynst this rule, applying and annexing remission of sinnes, to their owne inuentions and superstitious ceremonies, as vnto penance and ex∣treame vnction, which they also make Sacraments: for this is greatly derogato∣rie to Christs institution, who hath only appoynted the hearing of his word, and vse of the Sacraments, for the begetting and encreasing of faith, and by this faith only is the death of Christ applied vnto vs for the remission of sinnes.

2 All things ought to be done orderly and decently, 1. Cor. 14.40. Where∣fore al ridiculous, light & vnprofitable ceremonies are to be abolished: such our aduersaries haue many, as knocking, kneeling, creeping to the Crosse, lighting candles at noone day, turning ouer of beades, and many phantasticall gestures they haue in their idolatrous Masse, as turning, returning, looking to the East, to the West: crossing, lifting, quaffing, and shewing the emptie cup, with many such toyes.

3 All things ought to bee done without offence, 1. Corinth. 10.32. But to whom, that hath but a little feeling of religion, is not the abhominable sacrifice of the Masse offensiue? What good conscience doth it not grieue, that the Priest should create his maker, as they say? should offer vp the bodie of Christ in sacri∣fice, and be an intercessor as it were for his mediatour, desiring God to accept the sacrifice of his sonnes bodie? As also to make it a propitiatorie sacrifice for the quicke and the dead? But of these matters we shall haue fitter occasion to entreate afterward, when we come to the seuerall controuersies.

4 All things ought to bee done to edifying, 1. Corinth. 14. vers. 12. But the popish ceremonies are so farre from edifying, that by reason of their infinite rabble and number, they are a clogge vnto Christians, and more burdensome, then were the obseruations of the Iewes: They haue hallowed fire, water, bread, ashes, oyle, waxe, flowers, braunches, clay, spittle, salt, incense, balme, chalices, paxes, pixes, altars, corporals, superaltars, altarclothes, rings, swords, and an infi∣nite companie besides: doe these tend (thinke you) to the edification of the minde? Nay, they doe cleane destroy and extinguish all spirituall and internall motions, drawing the heart from the spiritual worship of God, to externall beg∣gerlie and ragged reliques and ceremonies. Fulk. 1. Timoth. 4. sect. 1. Beza. lib. confess. de eccles. articul. 18.19.20.

Page  78

The fift question, whether the Church of Rome be the true Church.

THis question hath two parts. First, whether the Romane Church be the Ca∣tholike Church or not. Secondly, whether the Church of Rome be a true vi∣sible Church.

THE FIRST PART, WHETHER THE ROMANE Church be the Catholike Church.
The Papists.

BEllarmine defining the Church, maketh this one part of the definition, to be [error 27] subiect vnto the Bishop of Romes iurisdiction. Lib. 3. de eccles. cap. 2. And therefore they conclude, that they are out of the Church and no better then he∣retikes, that doe not acknowledge the Pope to be their chiefe Pastor. Canis. de praecept. eccles. cap. 9. So they make the Romane faith, and Catholike, to bee all one: Rhemist. annot. in 1. Rom. sect. 5.

Their reasons are none other, then we haue seene before, taken from vniuer∣salitie, antiquitie, vnitie, vnto the which wee haue alreadie answered, quaest. 3. of this controuersie, Not. 1, 2, 3.

The Protestants.

WHile the Church of Rome continued in the doctrine of the Apostles, it was a notable and famous visible Church, and a principall part and mem∣ber of the vniuersall Catholike: but now since it is degenerate and fallen away from the Apostolike faith, from being the house of God, to be a synagogue for Antichrist, we take it not to be so much as a true visible Church. But neuer was it to be counted the Catholike Church, as though all other Churches were parts and members of it: but it selfe onely was a part as others, and Catholike too, while it continued in the right faith: but not Catholike as hauing iurisdiction ouer the rest, and all to receiue this name of her.

1 The vniuersall Catholike Church is so called, because it conteyneth the whole number of the elect and first borne of God, Heb. 12.23. Whereof manie are now saints in heauen, many liuing in the earth, many yet vnborne. But all these were not, neither are of the Romane faith: the holie men departed knewe not of these superstitious and prodigious vsages, which now doe raigne in the Church of Rome: nay, many of them neuer heard in their life so much, as of the name of Rome: Ergo.

2 It is called Catholike, and vniuersall, because they that are to be saued, must belong vnto this companie, and be of this Church, for without the Church there Page  79 is no saluation, for Christ onely gaue himselfe for his Church to sanctifie it and cleanse it. Ephes. 5.25. But all that dye out of the faith of the Romane Church, do not perish. Nay verely, we doubt not to say, but that all which depart this life in the communion thereof without repentance, are barred from saluation, and dye out of grace. We are in the right faith: neither will we be our owne iudges, the scriptures shall iudge vs: Euery spirit that confesseth, that Iesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God. 1. Iohn 4.2. We beleeue aright in both the natures and all the offices of Christ: which you doe not, which doe greatly deface his prophe∣tical office, in not reuerencing his word, but making it imperfect: his kingdom, in appointing him a Vicar and Vicegerent vpon earth, as though he of himselfe were not sufficient to gouerne: his Priesthood, in setting vp another sacrifice: Ergo, your spirit is not of God.

3 The Catholike Church is so called, because it embraceth the whole and onely doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles. Ephes. 2. vers. 20. But the Romane Church receiueth many things contrary to scripture, and addeth many things vnto it, as it shall appeare throughout this whole discourse. Ergo.

4 The Catholike Church hath the name, because it is dispersed ouer the whole earth. Acts 1. vers. 8. But so was neuer the Romane faith, which is now professed, as we haue shewed before. Quaest. 3. de Eccles. Not. 2. Ergo, ex Amand. Polan.

THE SECOND PART: THE CHVRCH OF Rome is not a true visible Church.
The Papists.

THeir arguments are as wee haue heard. Quaest. 3. of the notes of the Church, [error 28] grounded vpon their succession, miracles, gift of prophesiyng: answered suffi∣ciently afore, Not. 4.5.6. Wee neede not, nor must not for breuities sake repeate the same things often.


WE denie vtterly that they are a true visible Church of Christ, but an Anti∣christian Church, and an assembly of heretickes, and enemies to the Gos∣pell of Iesus Christ.

1 That cannot bee a true Church, where the word of God is not truely prea∣ched, nor the Sacraments rightly administred according to Christs institution: So are they not in the Popes Church: For the word is not sincerely taught, but they haue added many inuentions of their owne, and doe preach contrarie Doctrines to the Scripture: the Sacraments also they haue not kept, for first they haue augmented the number: they haue made fiue more, of con∣firmation, orders, penance, Matrimonie, extreame vnction: beside, the Sacra∣ments Page  80 of Christ they haue corrupted. In baptisme, beside water, they vse spittle, salt, oyle Chrisme, contrarie to the institution: and they lay such a necessitie vp∣on this Sacrament, that al, which die without it, say they, are damned. In the Lordes Supper, they haue turned the Sacrament to a sacrifice, made an Idol of bread, chaunged the Communion into priuate masses, taken the cup from the lay people, and many other abhominations are committed by them. Ergo, nei∣ther hauing the word, nor Sacraments according to the institution, they are no true Church.

2 They which are enemies to the true Church, and doe persecute the mem∣bers thereof, are no true visible Church: they cannot be of that Church, which they persecute; as Bellarmine saith of Paul: how could he bee of that Church, which he with al his force oppressed? de eccles. lib. 3. cap. 7. But they persecute the Saints of God, & are most cruel towards them, as their consciences beare them record. Ergo.

3 The habitation of Antichrist cannot be the Church of Christ, so is theirs: the Pope himselfe is Antichrist: for who else but hee sitteth in the temple, being an enemie to Christ. 2. Thes. 2. Where haue you a citie in the world built vpon seauen hilles but Rome? Apocalyps. 17.9. But of this matter we shall of purpose intreate afterward. Ergo. they are not a true visible Church.


A Councel is nothing else but an assembly and gathering together of the people of God, about the affaires and businesse of the Church: and they are of two sortes, either vniuersall in the name of the whole Church; or particular, which are either National, when the learned of a whole Realme are called together; or Prouincial, when as the Churches of one Prouince doo assemble into one place to consult of Religion.

There may be two especiall occasions of Councels: the one for resisting and rooting out of heresies; as the Apostles and elders met together, Act. 15. against those which would haue imposed the Iewish ceremonies vppon the beleeuing Gentiles. So the Councell of Nice was celebrated the yeare of the Lorde 327. to confound the heresie of Arrius, who denied Christ, as he was God, to be e∣quall to his Father. In the Councel of Constantinople, Anno 383. or there a∣boute, the heresie of Macedonius was condemned, which denied the holy Ghost to bee God: In the Ephesine Councel the first, Nestorius heresie was ouer∣throwne, which affirmed Christ to haue two persons. Anno 434. The Councel of Chalcedon was collected Anno 454. about the heresie of Eutiches, which held that there was in Christ but one nature after his incarnation, so confoun∣ding his humanitie and diuinitie together.

Page  81The other cause of the calling of Councels, is, to prouide & establish hol∣some Lawes, decrees and constitutions, for the gouernement of the Church: so the Apostles called the brethren together, Act. 6. to take order for the poore. And in the Councell of Nice an vniforme order was established for the celebra∣tion of Easter, which before had much troubled the Church.

The questions betweene vs and the Papists, concerning Councels are these, First, whether generall Councels be absolutely necessarie. Secondly, by whome they ought to be called. Thirdly, of what persons they ought to cōsist. Fourthly, who should bee the president of the Councel. Fiftly, concerning the authoritie of them. Sixtly, whether they may erre or not. Seauenthly, whether they are a∣boue the Pope. Eightly, of the conditions to be obserued in generall Councels: of these in order.

THE FIRST QVESTION CONCERNING the necessitie of Councels.

The assertion of the Papists.

THey seeme in wordes to affirme, that Generall Councels are not absolutelie [error 29] necessarie: for the Primitiue Church was without any Councel for the space of 300. yeares and more: yet they hold that some Councels, either generall or particular, are of necessitie to be had. Bellarmine de concil. lib. 1. cap. 11. And yet this is to be maruelled at, that they should so much stand for Councels, see∣ing they might vse a farre more compendious way, in referring all to the de∣termination of the Pope, whome they boldly, but very fondly affirme, that hee cannot erre.

Although they seeme not to lay a necessitie vpon Generall Councels, yet in truth they doo contrarie: for they allowe no Councels at all, without the Popes consent and authoritie, neither thinke it lawfull for any Nation or Prouince, to make within themselues any innouation or change of Religion. So in the assem∣bly at Zuricke. Anno 1523. For the reformation of Religion, Faber tooke ex∣ception against that meeting, affirming that it was no conuenient place, nor fit time for the discussing of such matter, but rather the cognition and tractation thereof belonged to a generall Councel. Sleid. lib. 3.

And further they hold, that what hath beene decreed in a Councel, cānot be dissolued but by the like Councel, as if the Councel of Trent were to bee disa∣nulled, it must be done by the like Synod. Bellarmine de cōcil. lib. 3. ca. 21. Which Councel they affirme to haue been general, & therefore another general Coun∣cel must by their opinion necessarily be expected, before it can be reuoked.

The confession of the Protestants.

WE doe hold that generall Councels are an holesome meanes for the re∣pressing and reforming, both of errors in Religion, and corruption in manners: and that true generall Councels ought to bee much desired, and con∣ueniently Page  82 expected: that is, such a Councell, where euery man franke & free may vtter his minde without feare: an holy Councel, where euery mā may goe about to set vp godlines, not to oppresse the trueth. Such a Councell King Henrie the eight of worthie memorie in his protestation for the Church of England, for not comming to the Councell of the Pope, truely affirmeth, that he desired, and craued nothing so oft of God: but because there is no hope of any such Councel, seeing the Pope would be the chiefe doer in it, and it is too vnreasona∣ble, that the same man should be both a partie, and a iudge: we doubt not, but that it is lawfull by the word of God, for euery Prince, Duke, Lord, within his owne seignorie, without any further delay, or expectation, by the aduice and Counsaile of the learned and godlie of the land, according to Gods Lawe, to re∣forme their Church.

First, because all delay in matters of the Church are dangerous, and inconue∣niences are at the first hand to be met withall, as we see Act. 6. and Act. 15. im∣mediatlie, when any question did arise, the Apostles assembled together. In the Councel of Basile, where it was decreed, that the Pope was subiect to the Coun∣cels, Panormitane a stiffe champion on the Popes side, would haue the decree stayed till the returne of the Princes Embassadors: But Arelatensis that worthy Cardinall stepped vp, and shewed what danger there might be in a small delay, by the example of Hannibal, who deferring his going but one day to Rome, was driuen cleane out of Italy, hauing been very like to haue taken the citie, if he had vsed the opportunitie. But without all controuersie, matters of faith ought not to be delayed: which could not be auoyded, if a generall Councel should alwaies be waited for.

Secondly, a Prince hath the like authoritie in his dominion, as the houshol∣der hath in his house. But euery man ought to reforme his house, without any further delay, aduisement or consultation, as Iosua sayth, I and my house will serue the Lord, 24. vers. 15. Wherefore the Prince may and ought to performe the like in his countrie.

Lastly, we finde by experience, that the Lord hath blessed such reformations, which haue been made by Princes in their owne territories: as that in Zuricke anno. 1523. at Berne, 1528. and the most happie reformation of our Church of England▪ begun by King Henrie the 8. encreased by that most vertuous Prince King Edward the 6. and prosperouslie continued and established by our gra∣cious Soueraigne Queene Elizabeth.

I will adde the testimonie of Augustine: who answering to the Pelagians, which obiected that they were condemned by certaine single Bishops in their owne Diocesse, without a Synode, he sayth thus, Ac si congregatione synodi opus erat, vt aperta pernicies damnaretur, quasi nulla haeresis aliquando, nisi synodi con∣gregatione damnata sit, &c. cont. 2. Epistol. Pelag. lib. 4. cap. 12. As though, saith he, a Synode or Councel were alwayes necessarie to condemne a knowne he∣resie: Nay, wee finde that more heresies without comparison, haue been in the same places condemned, where they first sprang, without any such necessitie, more so, then otherwise.

Page  83

THE SECOND QVESTION, BY WHOSE AV∣thoritie Councels ought to be called.

The Papists.

THey doe generally hold, that generall Councels ought onely to be called and appoynted by the Popes authoritie, or his assignment: their goodly rea∣sons [error 30] are these.

1 Councels ought to bee congregate in the name of Christ, that is, by him that hath authoritie from Christ so to congregate them: see here is a goodly ex∣position, to assemble in the name of Christ, is to assemble by the authoritie of the Pope: so belike where Christ saith, wheresoeuer two or three are gathered to∣gether in my name, &c. Christ will not bee present with them, vnlesse we send vp to Rome for license, that two or three may come together.

2 Generall Councels should be appoynted by them, that haue generall au∣thoritie to commaund men to come to the Councell: but this authoritie ouer the whole Church neuer any Emperour had, in such ample manner, as the Pope hath: Ergo. Answere: first, it is a great vntruth, that the Popes spirituall iurisdic∣tion which he falsely challengeth, was at any time greater then the Emperours dominion: for Constantine ruled ouer both the West and East Churches: but the Churches of Greece were neuer, nor are not to this day subiect to the sea of Rome. For Pope Eugenius would haue dissolued the Councell of Basile vnder this pretence, because the Greekes, which should come vnto the Councell for the vniting of their Church, would not passe the Alpes: but this vniting neuer went forward, Anno. 1431. Agayne, if the commaundement of one Empe∣rour or Potentate bee not large enough to appoynt a generall Councell, as in these dayes it is not, it may bee done by the consent and agreement of Princes.

The Protestants.

WE hold it as a fond and ridiculous assertion, that generall Councels should be ruled at the Popes becke, but that this authoritie is due, and hath been of olde vnto Christian Princes and Magistrates, and the Pope in so doing doth but vsurpe vpon their right.

1 That the Pope hath not absolute authoritie, to call, remoue, dissolue, or e∣stablish Councels, it is proued out of scripture: for Act. 6.2. the twelue Apostles, and not Peter onely, whose successor the Pope doth falsely chalenge to be, called the multitude together about the election of Deacons.

2 The Councels in times past were sommoned by the Emperours, which our aduersaries themselues cannot denie, as the Nicene first, by Constantine the great: Constantinopolitane. 1. by Theodosius the elder. Ephesin. 1. by TheodosiusPage  84 the younger: Chalcedonens. by Martianus. But, say our aduersaries, these Coun∣cels were not appoynted without the consent of the Bishops of Rome. I mer∣uaile they are not ashamed so to say: for when Theodosius called the Councell of Chalcedon, Leo then Bishop of Rome, neither liked the time, for hee would haue had it deferred, nor the place, being desirous to haue it in Italy: yet he was content to obey the Emperours commaundement, and sent his Agents to the Councel, there to appeare for him: Epist. 41.47.48. ad Martianum: This was alleadged by Tonstal and Stokeslie two archpapists in their Epistle to Cardinall Poole.

3 It is a good reason which was alleadged in the Councell of Basile, that if Popes onely should call Councels, there should be no meanes left to withstand a wicked and vicious Pope. Who would thinke (say they) that the Bishop of Rome would congregate a Councel, for his owne correction, or depo∣sition?

4 The Pope hath no more authoritie, nor, by their leaue, nothing like as Pe∣ter had: but he challenged not this dignitie amongst the Apostles, to summon Councels. We reade of foure onely Councels of the Apostles, say the fathers of Basile (for this also is their argument) the first was for the choosing of Mat∣thias. Act. 1. congregate at the commaundement of Christ, who inioyned them not to depart from Ierusalem. The second. Act. 6. congregate by the twelue, not Peter onely,* for the election of Deacons. The third, which was holden as touch∣ing the taking away of circumcision, and other ceremonies of the lawe, was gathered together by a generall inspiration, Act. 15.6. The fourth, wherein cer∣taine things contained in the lawe are permitted, seemeth to be gathered by Iames. Act. 21.18. Vpon these reasons the Councel thus concludeth: that if the Pope would resist, and haue no Councel congregate, yet if the greater part of the Church doe iudge it necessarie to haue a Councel, the Councel may bee congregate, whether the Pope will or not. Ex Aenea Syluio, Fox. pag. 676. Col. 2.

5 Augustine saith: Catholicos Episcopos & partis Donati iussu imperatoris disputando inter se contulisse. Breuicul. collation. lib. 1. cap. 1. That the Catholike Bishops and the Donatists, did meete together to dispute at the commaunde∣ment of the Emperour: There were in that Councel, which was at Carthage, of the Catholike Bishops 286. and of the Donatists 279.

THE THIRD QVESTION, OF WHAT PERSONS the Councel ought to consist.

The Papists.

WHereas there are foure sorts of men vsually present at Councels, the Prin∣ces [error 31] and Magistrates, Bishops and inferiour Ministers and Priests, and o∣ther lay people: of all these, Bishops (they say) onely must haue a deciding or Page  85 determining voyce: Priests and other learned may dispute and haue a consulta∣tiue voyce: Princes are there to defend the Councel, and see order kept: other of the Laitie may be there as officers and ministers, as Scribes and Notaries: but the suffrages and voyces must onely be giuen by Bishops. Eckius. loc. de concil. Bellarm. de concil. lib. 1. cap. 15. Let vs see some of their reasons.

First, to teach and to feede is proper for the Pastors only, and to establish and decree in Councel, is nothing els but to feede and teach: Ergo, Pastors onely must rule in Councel: which none are but Bishops: Soli Episcopi pastores sunt (sayth the Iesuite) neque laici neque ecclesiastici quicunque: Onely Bishops are pastors, and none other of the Clergie besides, and to them onely, he sayth, that is to bee applyed, Act. 20. Take heede to your selues, and the flocke, ouer the which God hath made you ouerseers.

I answere. First, what an absurd saying is this and voyde of sense, that the Bishop is the onely pastor of his Diocesse, and that euery Minister is not pastor in his owne parish? Nay, if the Iesuite would speake trueth, he shall finde that popish Bishops are neither Pastors nor Doctors, for the most of them neither feede, nor teach: And they be not ashamed to professe it, Ann. 1540. or there∣about, Thomas Forret Martyr, being found fault withall by the Bishop of Dun∣kelden in Scotland, because he preached so oft, exhorted the Bishop agayne, and wished that he did preach. The Bishop answered: nay, nay, let that bee, we are not ordayned to preach: and in further talke the blind blockish Bishop be∣wrayed his owne ignorance, I thanke God (sayth he) that I neuer knewe what the olde and newe Testament was. Thereupon rose a common prouerbe in Scotland, you are like the Bishop of Dunkelden, that knewe neither the old nor new lawe. Fox. Martyrol. pag. 1266.

With this blind saying of the popish Bishop, our countrey men of Rhemes also doe agree, which doubt not to say, that many which haue no gift to preach, yet for their wisedome and gouernment, are not vnmeete to be Pastors and Bi∣shops. Annot. in 1. Timoth. 5. sect. 13.

2 I answere, the Iesuite bewrayeth his ignorance, in making no difference betweene communis, and propria politia ecclesiae: the common and speciall po∣licie and office of the Church: for there are proper offices and dueties, some of Pastors, some of gouernours, some of other Ministers: but this office to be per∣formed in general Councels, is not proper to Pastors, but common to the whole Church: whereupon wee denye, that it is Proprium pastorum munus, suffragia ferre in concilijs: It is not the proper duetie of Pastors, to giue voyces and make decrees in Councels.

3 By the Iesuites argument, the fathers of Basile doe conclude cleane con∣trarie out of that place, 4. Ephes. That because Christ instituted not onely A∣postles and Prophets, but pastors and teachers for the work of the Ministerie, who doubteth (say they) but that the gouernance also of the Church is commit∣ted vnto others together with the Apostles? And hence they inferre, because Page  86 the worke of the Ministerie is layd vpon the rest of the Clergie, that therefore they ought not to be excluded from Councels.

Secondly, Panormitane in the Councel of Basile thus reasoneth for Bishops: that they were the pillars and keyes of heauen, and therefore had onely deci∣ding voyces: Vnto him answered at that time the wise and couragious Cardi∣nall Arelatensis, shewing Augustines iudgement vpon those words (I will giue thee the keyes of heauen) that the iudiciall power was giuen not onely to Peter, but also to the other Apostles, & to the whole Church, the Bishops, the Priests. Whereupon he inferreth, that if the Priests haue a iudicial power in the Church, they also ought to haue a determining voyce in Councels.

Thirdly, Lodouicus the Prothonotarie in the same Councel thus argued: Al∣beit (sayth hee) Christ chose twelue Apostles and 70. Disciples, notwithstand∣ing in the setting forth of the Creede, onely the Apostles were present, thereby giuing example, that matters of faith did pertaine onely to the Apostles, and so consequently to Bishops. To him Arelatensis made this answere: First, it fol∣lowed not, because the Apostles onely are named, that they therefore only were present at the setting forth of the Creede: for wee see that Princes beare the name and commendation of many actions, which are done notwithstanding by their helpers. 2. Lodouicus cannot be ignorant (sayth he) that there be some articles in the Creede, which were not put to by the Apostles, but afterward by generall Councels: as that part, wherein mention is made of the holy Ghost, which the Councel of Lions did adde: Thus much out of the Councel of Basile.

The Protestants confession.

OVr opinion grounded vpon trueth and scripture is this: that, not onely Bi∣shops, but all other pastors admitted to the Councel, and the learned and discreete amongst the Lay men, ought to haue concluding voyces in Councel: and that rather the discussing and consulting of matters pertayneth to the lear∣ned Diuines, the deciding to all, then contrariwise.

First, that inferiour pastors are to bee ioyned with Bishops and Prelates, it was amplie proued in the Councel of Basile, of the which I haue so often made mention, as noble Arelatensis reasoneth thus: The dignities of the fathers is not to be respected but the trueth: neither will I preferre a lye of any Bishop, be he neuer so rich, before a veritie or a trueth of a poore Priest: this is his first rea∣son, that the trueth ought to bee receiued at any mans mouth bee he neuer so simple: and therefore Priests as well as Bishops are to bee admitted to the Councel.

2 He declareth the ancient practise of the Church: In the Councel of Nice, where there were assembled 322. Bishops, Athanasius being then onely a Priest, withstood the Arrians, and infringed their arguments: In the Synode Page  87 of Chalcedon, there were present sixe hundred Priests, which name is common both to Bishops and Priests. When Paul Bishoppe of Antioch preached that Christ was a man of common nature: the Councell assembled against him at Antioch, where the sayde Paul was condemned, neither was there any man, which did more confound the sayd Paul, then one Malchion Priest of Anti∣och, which taught Rhetorick there.

Concerning the second part, that laye men also with Priests ought to bee admitted: first we haue testimonie out of the word of God for it. Tit. 3.13. for this cause Zenas the lawyer is ioyned as fellow in commission with Apollos. But we haue a more euident place. Act. 15.22. It seemed good to the Apostles and Elders with the whole Church: here we see that not onely the Elders but the whole multitude, were admitted into consultation with the Apostles. To this place our aduersaries doe thus aunswere: Lodouicus the Prothonotarie, first thus rashly and fondly gaue his verdicte in the Councell of Basile, that there was no argument to be gathered of the Acts of the Apostles, whose examples were more to be maruayled at, then to be followed:* But to this Arelatensis re∣plied, that he would stay himself most vpon the Apostles doings: for what, sayth he, is more comely for vs to followe, then the doctrine and customes of the primitiue Church? And Aeneas Siluius reporteth (who writeth of the actes of that Councell) that all men impugned this saying of Lodouicus, that the Apo∣stles were not to be followed, as a blasphemie.

Wherefore the Iesuite hath found out another aunswere: he sayth that none but the Apostles gaue sentence, the rest onely gaue consent, and inwarde li∣king and approbation: this cauill Arelatensis met withall long before the Ie∣suite was borne, in the forenamed Councell. Neither this worde, sayth hee, It seemed good, signifieth in this place consultation, but decision, and de∣termination: And so it doth indeede: for seeing there is one worde applyed to them all, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, placuit, it seemed good to the Apostles, Elders and the whole multitude, why should it not be taken in the one and selfe same sence, and after the same manner vnderstood of them all?

2. Seeing the Councel doth represent the whole Church, there ought to be present and to giue sentence of all sorts and callings of men: and the tather, be∣cause the matter of fayth and religion is a common cause, and as well apper∣tayneth to lay-men as to Bishops, it behooueth them also to bee present: And further it were more reasonable, that princes and temporall Magistrates should binde their subiects to their lawes, without their consent, then that ec∣clesiastical persons should lay yokes vpon Christians against their willes, for ciuill matters are more indifferent and left to our choyce, then spirituall are: Yet we see there are no lawes enacted in our Realme but by the high court of Parliament, where alwayes some are appoynted for the commons, euen the whole neather house, without whose consent no acte can passe. So it were ve∣ry reasonable, that no law should be layd vpon the Church, without the gene∣rall consent thereof.

Page  883. Lastly, Augustines iudgement we heard before alleadged by Arelaten∣sis, that seeing the iudicial power of the keies is committed to the whole Church, to Bishops, to Priests, they all ought to bee entertayned in generall Councels.

THE FOVRTH QVESTION, WHO OVGHT to be the president and chiefe moderator in Councels.

The Papists.

[error 32] WIth one whole consent they all agree and holde, that the Pope onelie ought to haue the chiefe place in Councels, either himselfe in his owne person, or else his Legates and deputies for him: they reason thus.

1. The Pope is the chiefe pastor of the vniuersall Church, for vnto Peter onely it was sayd, pasce oues meas, feede my sheepe, and he is called and saluted in Councels by the name of father: and all other both Princes and Bishops are sheepe in respect of him.

Wee answere, first, in the Iesuites argument, there is petitio principij, a foule fault in a good Logician, though it bee none in a Sophister, still to begge that which is in question: for yet he hath not prooued that the Pope is the vniuer∣sall pastor. 2. That place, feede my sheepe, prooueth it not: Augustine saith, redditur negationi trinae trina confessio, ne minus amori lingua seruiat, quàm ti∣mori. in Iohan. tract. 123. he recompenceth a threefold deniall, with a threefold confession, lest that his tongue should be lesse seruiceable to loue, then it was to feare: so then, by this fathers iudgement, it was no priuiledge to Peter to bee thrise admonished, but he is thereby put in mind of his thrise deniall of Christ. Againe, I maruaile the Iesuite can so soone forget himselfe: for in the 15. chap∣ter afore, he prooued by these words (feede my sheepe) that Bishops onely were pastors, and he can now turne the wordes to serue onely for the Pope. 3. What great matter is it for the Pope to be called father, seeing he is not ignorant that all Bishops assembled in Councell and other learned, are called by that name. Nay, it is no rare matter for other Bishops to be saluted by the name of Pope: as Prosper writing to Augustine, twise in one Epistle calleth him, bea∣tissimum Papam, most blessed Pope, Tom. 7.4. Princes and Bishops to the Pope are sheepe, sayth the Iesuite. 1. For Bishops, though he had a iurisdiction ouer all, which will stick in his teeth to prooue, yet shall they be no more his sheep, then Priests are to Bishops, and Bishops to their Metropolitanes, who cannot be sayd to be their sheepe, though they haue some preeminence ouer them: for Augustines rule must stand, nemo se nostrum episcopum episcoporum constituit. De baptism. 2.2. No man is a Bishop of Bishops, nor shepheard of shepheards. Secondly, for Princes he hath nothing to doe with any but those in his owne Bishopricke, and as they are his sheep one way, as they are taught of him, so he and his Cardinals are the Magistrates sheepe another way, and in respect of Page  89 the ciuil gouernement he is their shepheard: And both he and they, prince and priest are sheep-fellows, vnder Iesus Christ the chiefe shepheard: as Augu∣stine sayth, tanquam vobis pastores sumus, sed sub illo pastore vobiscum oues sumus, in Psal. 126. we are shepheards to you, but both you and I are sheep vnder that great shepheard.

The Protestants.

WE doe truely affirme, that the Soueraigne Maiestie of the Emperour and chiefe Magistrate, or his legate, if he either be present himselfe, or sende, ought to be president of the Councel: Or else in their absence, one to be cho∣sen and elected by the Councel for that function, as Cardinal Arelatensis was chosen in the Councell of Basile by the fathers to be moderator.

First, that it belongeth to the Prince, to haue this prerogatiue, it is hence prooued, because he is the chiefe iudge in all matters and causes, both ciuil and eccesiasticall: And it appeareth by the auncient practise of the godly kings in Israel and Iuda. Dauid gathered a Councel together, when hee brought the Arke to Ierusalem. 1. Chronicl. 15.3. where he was the chiefe doer, and dire∣ctor; for he appoynted the Leuites their courses, and set forth a certayne fourme of thanksgiuing to be vsed. 1. Chronicl. 16.4.7. Hezekiah assembled a Councel. 2. Chronicl. 30.2. where it was decreed, that the passeouer should be solemnly kept: & the postes were sent forth with the kings writ or commission. In Iosiah his raigne there was a great assembly at Ierusalem, of the Princes, the people, priests and Leuites, and al from the greatest to the smallest: where the king him selfe was president and chiefe agent, reading the law before the people. 2. Chro∣nicl. 34.30.31.

Secondly, we finde that the Emperours themselues haue beene present at Councels: As in the Nicene, Constantine the great was present: in the Councel of Chalcedon, Martianus: in the Constantinopolitane 3. Constantinus the Em∣perour: in the Constantinopl. 4. Basilius the Emperour was present. Is it to bee thought that these noble Emperours, were at the Councels as inferiors or vn∣derlings? or had they not the chiefe places? then sure they were presidents: for in the Councell the chiefe place belongeth to the president. They might ap∣poynt a speaker or prolocutor for them, as in the parliament house, though the prince be present, yet the Lord Chauncellour speaketh: but the chiefe power and Soueraigntie in the Councell, was in the Emperours.

Thirdly, not to heape vp many reasons in so playne a cause: I will alleadge one example most manifest out of Augustine: who writeth that in that great Councel at Carthage where the matter was discussed between the Catholicks & the Donatists, there being present more then 500. Bishops of both sides, Mar∣cellinus was appointed to be moderator of that disputatiō: who diuers times put∣teth in his sentence in the disputation, and last of all, bidding both parts to go aside, he writeth the sentence definitiue, and concludeth against the Donatists, approuing the actes of the Catholike Bishops. haec August. breuicul. collation.

Page  90

THE FIFTE QVESTION WHETHER Councels may erre or not.

The Papists.

[error 33] THey are not all agreed, what to determine of this matter; some affirme that Generall Councels can in no wise erre, although the consent of the Pope bee wanting: thus the fathers in Basile concluded, who is it, say they, that will preferre a sinfull man before an vndefiled Church? But Bellarmine more the Popes friend then so, holdeth, that euen generall Councels may erre, vnlesse they follow the instructions and directions of the Pope: Yea that it is not suf∣ficient for the pope to call a Councel, and sende his Legate thither, but hee must write continually for aduertisement from his maister before any thing be concluded: and therefore they doubt not to say, that the Councell of Basile er∣red, though it had the consent of the Popes Legate, in defining, that the Coun∣cell is aboue the Pope, because he had no such direction from the Pope, Bellar∣mine de concil. lib. 2. cap. 11.

Nay the Iesuite goeth further, that particular Councels being approoued by the Pope cannot erre. cap. 5. So they holde that the holy fathers of the cru∣ell Inquisition cannot erre: Yea Panormitane was not ashamed to say openly in the Councell of Basile, that he would prefer the iudgement of the Cardinals of Rome before all the world. This then is the Iesuites opinion, that no Councels by the pope confirmed can erre: & that a particular Councel hauing his allow∣ance, is to be preferred before a generall without. Let vs see some of their reasons.

1. They abuse certaine places of scripture for their purpose: as that Act. 15.

It seemed good to vs, and the holy Ghost: I am with you to the end of the world: He that heareth you, heareth me.
Bellarmine cap. 2. Rhemist. in Act. 15.8.10. so then thus they argue, Councels are neuer without the spirite of God, there∣fore can they not erre. A silly argument, as though the spirite of God were at their commaundement, or were tyed to places or persons: They must first per∣forme the condition, before they can chalenge the promise: that is, to followe the rule of Gods word, and obediently to submit themselues thereunto, then will God vouchsafe to be present: The Gospell sayth, that wheresoeuer two or three are gathered together in my name, I will be present euen in the midst of them: Here promise is made not to thousands or hundreds, but to two or three: and therefore by this place an assemblie of few persons may as well be exemp∣ted from error, as Councels: but there is a condition, In nomine meo, in my name, and then followeth, in medio illorum, in the midst of them: if then they are not met in the Lords name, they cannot looke for the presence of Christ. I pray you where was the holy Ghost present in that Councel at Rome vnder Iohn. 23. when there appeared a great Oule, which stared and out faced the pope, who Page  91 blushing at the matter, and fuming, rose vp and departed? At the sight of which Owle they whispered one in anothers eare, that the spirit appeared in the like∣nes of an Owle: and after that, in an other session the same Owle appeared, and could not be driuen away, vntill by throwing bats and cudgels at her, shee fell downe dead before them. ex Nichol. Clemang. In the beginning of the Councel of Constāce after the accustomed hymne song, veni sancte spiritus, a bil was set vp with these wordes, alijs rebus occupati nunc adesse non possumus, Wee are now otherwise occupied, we cannot be present with you. We see now how sure the Papists are of the holy Ghost in their popish Councels.

The Protestants.

WE doubt not to say, that Councels haue erred, and may erre, presuming any thing besides the warrant of Gods worde, and that neither v∣niuersall or particular Councels are priuiledged, much lesse any one man, no nor the Pope, not to erre in matters of fayth, otherwise, then following the trueth of the Scriptures, for in so doing, they are sure, not to be deceiued.

1. We haue also examples in the scripture of Councels that erred, as that as∣semblie in Achabs dayes of 400. Prophets, who were al deceiued: the Iesuite thus answereth, that it was an assemblie of prophets, not of priests: as though priestes were more piuiledged from error, than Prophets. And these, say they, were false Prophets, not Prophets of the Lord: We graunt so, and this withal, that wheresoeuer the Lords Prophets, and pastors, and ministers assemble, that there they will heare the Lords voyce: which the Pope in his Councels doth not. But he still supposeth, that the Pope and his ministers are Christs Disci∣ples: which is an vnreasonable supposition, seeing we hold him to be Antichrist, and that the Iesuite knoweth.

Such a Councell was that of the Iewes, Iohn 9. where all they were excom∣municate that confessed Christ, & Mark. 14▪ Christ himselfe was by the Coun∣cel condemned: It cannot be denied, that this Councell erred. Let vs heare the papists goodly answeres: some say, that the Councel erred in a matter of fact, de facto, non de iure, not in a case of right, as whether Christ should be put to death: as though in condemning him, they denied not that he was the Messiah: other, that they erred in their owne opinion, not in the sentence giuen, for Christ in∣deede was guilty of death, say they, because he did beare our sinnes: the Iesuite findeth not much fault with this answere, & yet it is an open blasphemie, as is that also of the papists, that the Iewes had sinned mortally, if they had not put Christ to death. Some of them say, the Councel erred not in that which was done, but in the maner of iudgement, because it was tumultuous & disorderly,* & done by suborning of false witnesses: and this sayth the Iesuite, is probabilis responsio, a probable answere sayth hee, being most impious and blasphemous. But he dare not rest in this answere, but findeth out a fourth of his owne, that the chiefe priestes and Councels of the Iewes could not erre before the com∣ming Page  92 of Christ, but after he was come, they might. A blinde popish answere▪ for doth not Christ euery where impugne the traditions and decrees of the El∣ders, as Mark. 7. which our Sauiour should not haue done belike, seeing the Elders before his comming could not erre: or will they say, that those traditi∣ons were right and good before, and afterward erronious? I know not els, what they should say.

3. We see by experience that many councels haue erred: we let pas those which the Iesuite himself cōfesseth to haue erred, as the third Coūcel of Antioch, where Athanasius was condemned, and the Arrian heresie approoued: the Councel of Arimine, where the same heresie was furthered: the fourth Ephesine appro∣uing Eutiches heresie: These Councels, though they were generall, the papists confesse to haue erred, and they haue a trick to shift it off, but a silly one God knoweth. They were not approoued by the Pope, saye they: As though all verity & knowledge in the whole earth were locked vp in the Popes breast.

But wee will bring an instance of such Councels as the Pope allowed, and yet by the papists owne confession erred. In the Councell of Naeo-Caesarea, confirmed by Leo 4. in the 7. canon: second marriage is forbidden. In the Councel Toletan. 1. the 17. canon: it is thus written, that one may be admitted to the communion, though he haue a concubine, modò non sit vxoratus, so hee be not wiued: the Iesuites poore shift is this, that a concubine is here vnder∣stoode for a wife without a dowrie, and further sayth, that Agar was Abra∣hams wife, and not his concubine, agaynst the scripture: for Abraham should haue done euill in sending of her away as he did, if she were his wife, and the scripture calleth Sara by the name onely of Abrahams wife, the other by the name of a bond woman, Gen. 21.8.12.

In the sixt Synod confirmed by Adrian the 1. canon. 72. the mariages betweene Catholikes and hereticks are adiudged to be voyde. In the second Councel of Nice, act. 5. it was concluded, that Angels and mens souls are bodily and circumscriptible.

In the Councel of Rome vnder Pope Stephan the 7. all the acts of Formosus his predecessor were reuoked: And in the Councel of Rauenna vnder Iohn. 9. Pope, Formosus actes were established, and Stephans decrees abrogate.

Lastly, in the Councel of Constance, they are excommunicate, that receiue the sacrament in both kinds: the Councel of Basile on the contrary side permit∣teth and giueth leaue to the Bohemians to vse both kindes. One of these Coun∣cels, must needs erre, & both of them were confirmed by the Popes: the Coun∣cel of Constance by Martin the 5. the Councel of Basile by Foelix 5. By this indu∣ction of many particulars we inferre and conclude, that Councels euen appro∣ued by the Pope, may and haue erred,

4. Lastly, Augustines opinion is this, that prouincial Councels ought to giue place to general: Et ipsa plenaria priora posteriorib. emendari, and the former ge∣neral Councels must be amended by the latter. The Rhemists haue found out this shift, that in matters indifferent, which are to be chāged, according to time Page  93 and place, Councels may be altered, Act. 15. sect. 8. But to that it is aunswered, that the word emendare, signifieth not onely a change, but a correcting of that which is amisse. And that clause of Augustines must bee put in, why Councels must be amended: si a veritate deuiatum fit, if they swarue from the truth, de bap∣tism. lib 2. cap. 3. Wherfore we conclude, that Councels may erre.

THE SIXT QVESTION CONCERNING THE AV∣thority of general Councels, whether they may absolutely deter∣mine without scripture, and necessarily binde all men to the obedience of their Canons.

The Papists.

IN words they would seem to magnifie the scripture aboue Councels: for [error 34] they say, that the authority of the scripture depēdeth not in himself, of Church, Pope, or Councels: but in respect of vs, the word of God is the word of God, say they, though there be no determination of the Church, but we doe not know it so to be, but because the Church hath so defined: Bellarmine lib. 2. de con. cap. 12. Here is a goodly glosse, but nothing to the purpose: for in that they say the Church hath absolute authoritie to declare and pronounce which is the word, (which indeed it hath not without testimonie and warrant of the word it selfe) by this meanes it commeth about, that much is taken for the worde of GOD which is not: and so the Church doth not onely declare the worde, but maketh that the word which is not.

First, beside the Apocrypha, which they make part of the word, as we haue shewed afore, they hold that their traditions are also the word of God. Bellar∣mine cap. 12. Secondly Gratian is so bolde to affirme that the decretall Epistles of the Popes are to be counted amongst the Canonical scriptures, dist. 19. can. in canonicis, & that the Canons of Councels are of the same authority, dist. 20. can. decretales. And Greg. 1. epist. 24. saith, he doth reuerēce the 4. general Councels, as the foure Euangelists. Thirdly, they shamefully affirme, that whatsoeuer the pastors and priests do teach in the vnity of the Church, is the word of God, Rhe∣mens. 1. Thes. 2. v. 12.

First then they conclude, that Councels are not bound to determine according to the scriptures, but as iudges may determine of their own authority. Secondly, that al men are bound of necessity to receiue the decrees of Councels, without any further triall or examination. They reason thus; out of the scripture.

1. Deut. 17.12. He that harkeneth not vnto the priest, that man shal die. But mark I pray you, what goeth before,

v. 11. according to the law which they shal teach thee, & according to the iudgement which they shall tell thee, shalt thou do: see then, here is no absolute iudicial power giuen to the priest but according to the law of God.

2. The example of the Apostles Act. 15. is as fōdly alleadged, where it was de∣creed (saith the Iesuite) that ye Gētiles shuld not be burthened with ceremonies, which saith hee, was not determined by the scriptures but by the absolute suf∣frages Page  94 of the Apostles. Again, their decrees were absolutely imposed vpon the Churches, without any further examination of the Disciples. Ergo, we are now also absolutely bound to obey all decrees of Councels, Bellar. de concil. 1.18.

We answere: first, it is false, that this matter was determined without scripture: for Iames alleadgeth scripture: & Peter thus reasoneth, we beleeue through the grace of God to be saued as wel as they v. 11. therfore what need this yoke of ceremonies? 2. Though there had been no scripture, who seeth not that the spi∣rit of God so ruled the Apostles, that their writings and holy actions should serue for scripture vnto the ages following? Thirdly, the Disciples needed not to examine their decrees, knowing that they were gouerned by the spirit, as they themselues write: It seemed good to vs and the holy Ghost: yet we see the bre∣thren of Bereae searched the scripture for the trueth of those things which the A∣postles preached, Act. 17.11. When they can proue such a plenarie power & ful∣nes of the spirit in their pastors and Councels, as was in the Apostles, we wil al∣so beleeue them.

The Protestantes.

WE doe firmly beleeue that neither the Church nor Councels haue any such absolute power to determine without the holy scriptures, either beside or agaynst them, or to binde other men to obey such decrees: Neither that the true Church of God dare or will arrogate such power vnto it self: But that Councels are ordayned for the discussing & deciding of doubtful matters, according to the scriptures, and word written.

1. If the Apostles preachings might bee examined according to scripture, much more the acts of all other Bishops and pastors. But that was lawful in the Disciples of Berea, Act. 17.11. which are commended for it: therefore called noble, couragious Christians, because of this their promptnes, & diligence in searching out of the truth. Ergo.

2. All things necessarie to saluation to be beleeued, are articles of our fayth: but al such articles must be grounded vpon the word of God, therfore nothing can be imposed as necessary to saluation without the word of God. Wherefore it is a blasphemous saying of the papists, that the Church may make new arti∣cles of fayth, Rhemens. annot. in 1. Tim. 3. sect. 9. and Eckius maintained the same poynt agaynst Luther, in the disputation at Lipsia, and brought forth a new ar∣ticle of faith, agreed of in the Councel of Constance, that it is de necessitate salutis, of the necessitie of saluation,* to beleeue that the Pope is the head of the Church. The fathers of Basile more modest then so, concluding that it was an article of fayth to beleeue that Councels were aboue the Pope, doe vse this reason: those things, say they, which we alleadge for the superioritie of general Councels are gathered out of the sayings of our Sauiour Christ.*Ergo, we are al bound to obey them. Therefore we conclude, that the word of God only written is the rule of fayth, and al things necessary to be beleeued, Rom. 10.10. Fayth commeth by hearing, and hearing by the word. Councels are to explane and declare articles of faith, not to establish new.

Page  953 Lastly we will heare Augustine speake, Nec tu debes Ariminense, neque ego Nicaenū tanquā praeiudicaturus proferre concilium, scripturarum authoritati∣bus, &c. Neither must I alleadge the Nicen Councel, nor you the Arimine, I am neither bound to the one, nor you to the other, let the matter be tried by Scrip∣ture, cont. Maximu. Arrianum lib. 3. cap. 14. By this fathers sentence therefore, no man is bound of necessitie to be tyed to Councels, but the Scripture onely is absolutely to be beleeued.

THE SEAVENTH QVESTION, WHETHER Councels be aboue the Pope or not.

The Papists.

THis is a matter yet not fully determined amongst the Papists. Neither are [error 35] they all of one opinion: In the Councell of Constance and Basile, it was fully concluded: that the Councell is aboue the Pope: Gerson of Paris, that was also present in the Councell of Constance, and a great dooer against Iohn Hus, stifly maintaineth the authoritie of Councels aboue the Pope. Other Papists more fauorable to their new God amight, say, that the Pope is by right aboue the Councell, but he may (if he wil) submit himselfe to the Councell. But now commeth in the stoute Iesuite, and saith with the rest of the schoolemen, that the Pope hath such a soueraigntie aboue the Councell, that he cannot be subiect to their sentence, though hee would. Bellar. de concil. lib. 2.14. Yet hee is in a mammering with himselfe, for saith he, in periculo schismatis, when there is a schisme, and it is not knowne who is the true Pope, in such a case the Councell is aboue the Pope: Let vs examine some of his best reasons.

1 Now commeth in a great blasphemie. All the names, saith the Iesuite, that are giuen to Christ in the Scriptures, as head of the Church, are ascribed to the Pope, as he is called fidelis dispensator. Luc. 12. a faithfull steward in the Lords house, pastor gregis, Iohn 10. the shepheard of the flocke, Caput corporis ecclesiae. Ephes. 4. the head of his bodie the Church, vir seu sponsus, Ephes. 5. the husband or spouse of the Church: all these titles, saith he, are due to the Pope, Ergo, he is aboue the Church, and so consequently aboue generall Councels. Bellar. de concil. lib. 2.17.

O Lord what great blasphemie is here, to appropriate the titles of Christ, to a mortall man: But goe to Bellarmine, and the rest of that packe, fil vp the mea∣sure of iniquitie of your forefathers: say with Pope Athanasius, that the people of the world are the partes of his bodie: with Cornelius the Bishop in the Coun∣cell of Trent, the Pope being the light came into the world, and men loued darkenes rather then light: with Pope Calixtus in the Councell of Rhemes, who, when hee saw the Councell would not consent to excommunicate the Empe∣rour, impiously cried out, that they had forsaken him, as Christ was left of his Disciples: with Innocentius the third, that all things in Heauen and earth, and Page  96 vnder the earth doe bowe the knee vnto him: with Otho no Pope, but a Cardi∣nall, that sitting amongst his Bishops, blasphemously applied to himselfe the vi∣sion of Ezechiel cap. 1. resembling the Bishops to the sower faced beasts, him∣selfe vnto God that approched to the Prophet in the midst. Euen thus with the like spirite of blasphemie, doo the Iesuites crie out, that the Pope is the chiefe shepheard, steward, husband, and head of the Church vpon earth.

But we will leaue to charge them so deepely with blasphemie, which not∣withstanding they cannot auoyde: Let vs heare, what the fathers of Basile say to this poynt. Bellarmine saith, the Pope is the husband: but they reason cleane contrarie: the Church (say they) is the spouse of Christ: the Pope, make the best of him you can, is but a Vicar: but no man dooth so ordaine a Vicar, that hee maketh his spouse subiect vnto him, but that the spouse is alwaies thought to be of more authoritie then the Vicar, forsomuch as she is one body with her hus∣band, but the Vicar is not so: thus haue they to the full answered the Iesuite, ex Aenea Syluio. Better arguments they haue none for the Popes prerogatiue, then we haue seene.

The Protestants.

THat the Pope is by right, and ought to be subiect to generall Councels, and that they haue authoritie to iudge, examine, suspend, punish, & depose him, if there be iust cause, it is proued thus. This matter was pithilie disputed vpon by the Fathers of Basile, some of whose reasons, it shall bee sufficient heere to followe.

1 They proue this conclusion out of Scripture. First, whereas Panormitane had saide, that the Pope was Lorde of the Church, vnto him Segouius answered, that it was the most honourable title of the Bishop of Rome, to be called the ser∣uant of the seruants of God: and Peter, saith hee, forbiddeth pastors to behaue themselues as Lords ouer the Clergie, 1. Pet. 5. And if Christ the sonne of God, came not to be ministred vnto, but to minister and serue, how then can his Vicar haue any dominion? So was Panormitane answered.

Againe, the Diuines thus argued: Christ saith to Peter, dic Ecclesiae, Peter is sent to the Church or Councell: Ergo the veritie doth remit the Bishop of Rome to the Councell. But to this the Iesuite saith, that Peter was not yet entred into his office to bee chiefe Bishop, but was as a priuate person. So then belike, this rule of our Sauiour Christ, dic Ecclesiae, tell it to the Church, did but binde Pe∣ter, till Christ were ascended, and he receiued his Vicar-dome.

This cauillous answere the Fathers of Basile wisely foresaw, and preuented it, for they shew how Peter was subiect to Councels euen after the ascension, as Act. 11. Peter is rebuked (say they) by the congregation, because he went to Cor∣nelius an heathen man, as if it had not been lawfull for him to attempt any great matter without the knowledge of the congregation: but that seemeth to make more for the purpose, Galath. 2. where Paule rebuked Peter to his face, because Page  97 contrarie to the decree of the Councell of the Apostles, hee did cogere gentes Iu∣daizare, hee would constraine the Gentiles to doe like the Iewes. Ergo, Peter was subiect vnto the Councell, ex Aenea Syluio.

Other reasons many were alleaged by the Fathers of Basile. First the Bi∣shop of Burgen: As in euery well ordered Kingdome, the whole realme should be of more authoritie then the King, so the Church ought to be of more autho∣ritie then the Pope, though he were Prince thereof.

The Diuines brought these argumēts: the Church is the mother of the faith∣full, and so of the Pope, if he be a faithfull man: the Pope is then the Churches sonne, as both Anacletus and Calixtus Bishops of Rome confessed. Ergo how much the sonne is inferiour to his mother, so much is the Church superiour to the Pope. Secondly, the Pope is inferiour to Angels, he is not greater then Iohn Baptist, of whom it is said, that the least in the Kingdome of God is greater then he: but the Angels doe reuerentlie accord vnto the doctrine of the Church. Ephes. 3.10. Ergo the Pope is bound to doo the same, who is lesse then the An∣gels. These Fathers thought none so absurd to denie the Pope to be inferiour to Angels, and therefore labour not to proue it. Yet Antoninus an olde Papist saith, Non minor honor datur Papae, quàm Angelis, there is no lesse honour due to the Pope then to the Angels. Nay another saith (I thinke it be Pope Paschalis) Datur Episcopis, quod ne Angelis, vt Christi corpus crearent: it is graunted to Bi∣shops, which is not giuen to the Angels, to create the bodie of Christ. But the Fathers of Basile thought not these men worthie the answere, no more doe we, and so let thē passe. Thirdly, the Pope (say they) being the Vicar of the Church, for he is more truely so called, then the Vicar of Christ▪ he may be deposed of the Church: for a Lord may put out his Vicar at his pleasure. Ergo the Pope is vnder Councels.

4 If the Councels might not ouerrule the Pope, there were no remedie left to resist a wicked Pope: Shall we suffer all things, say they, to run into ruine and decay with him? for it is not like, that hee would congregate a Councell against himselfe. To this the Iesuite answereth, that there is no remedie left, but to pray to God in such a case; who will either confound or conuert such a Pope. Here is goodly diuinitie: we know that Antichrist shall at length be destroyed at the comming of Christ: but if he should be let alone in the meane while, and not be bridled, he might doe much hurt, as he hath done too much alreadie. Yet the Ie∣suite confesseth, that a wicked Pope may bee resisted by force and armes: and why not, I pray you, as well by peaceable meanes? these sayings are contrarie. Bellarm. cap. 19.

So then this is Popish diuinitie, that be the Pope neuer so wicked, doe he ne∣uer so much harme, hee is not to bee controuled of any mortall man. Such doul∣tish schoole poynts maintained especially by begging friers, the fathers of Ba∣sile complained of: As that they should say, that no man ought to iudge the high and principall seate, that it cannot be iudged, either by Emperour, Clergie, King or people. Other affirme, that the Lord hath reserued to himselfe the depo∣sitions Page  98 of the chiefe Bishop: Others, yet more mad, are not ashamed to affirme, that the Bishop of Rome, though hee carrie soules in neuer so great number to hell, yet is he not subiect to any correction, or rebuke. For all these straunge and blasphemous positions, the fathers concluded, as yee haue heard, that the Pope ought to obey generall Councels.

4 Lastly, I will adioyne the iudgement of Augustine, who writing in his 162. Epistle concerning the Donatists, whose cause was heard and determined by the Emperours appoyntment at Rome before Miltiades then Bishop there, and other Bishops assistants: and yet for all this the Donatists would not bee quiet: Thus he saith, Putemus, illos iudices, qui Romae iudicauerunt, non bonos iu∣dices fuisse: Restabat adhuc plenarium Concilium, &c. Put case (saith hee) that the Bishop of Rome and the rest, iudged corruptly: there remayned yet ano∣ther remedie: A generall Councell might haue beene called, where the iudges and the cause might further haue been tried, and examined, & their iudgement, if there were cause, reuersed. Whereby it appeareth, say the fathers of Basile, that not onely the sentence of the Pope alone, but also the Pope with his Bi∣shops ioyned with him, might be made frustrate by a Councell. Here the Iesuite paltreth & saith, that a matter determined by the Pope in a particular Councell may be called againe in question by the Pope in a general Councel. First what neede that, seeing that a particular Councel hauing the Popes authoritie, as the Iesuite confesseth, cannot erre? Againe, Augustine saith, vbi cum ipsis iudicibus causa possit agitari: In the which generall Councell the cause and the former iudges, of the which Miltiades was one, may bee tryed and examined, so that the Pope himselfe might be adiudged by the Councell, and not the cause onely. Vpon the Premisses we truely and iustly conclude, that the Pope is and of right ought to be subiect to generall Councels.

THE EIGHT QVESTION, OF THE CON∣ditions and qualitie of generall Councels.

The Papists.

THeir vnreasonable and vnequall conditions, are these and such like, as followe.

1 That the Pope onely should haue authoritie to summon, call, proroge, dissolue and confirme Councels, and he onely to bee the iudge, president and moderator in Councels, or some at his appoyntment.

2 They will haue none to giue voyces but Bishops, and such as are bound by oath of alleageance to the Pope.

3 That the Councell is not bound to determine according to Scripture, but to follow their traditions, and former decrees of Councels.

4 That no Councell is in force without the Popes assent, yea the Pope him∣selfe Page  99 (say they) by his sole authotitie may abrogate and disanull the canons and decrees of Councels.

These and such other conditions the Papists require in their Councels: So they wilbe sure, that nothing shall be concluded against them.

The Protestants.

OVr conditions, which we would haue obserued and kept, in generall Coun∣cells, are these, most iust and reasonable:

1 That the Pope, which is a party, should be no iudge: for it is vnreasonable, that the same man should be both a partie and a iudge: and therefore he ought not to meddle with calling and appoynting Councels, with ruling, or mode∣rating them, seeing it is like, he would worke for his owne aduantage.

2 That such a time and place be appointed, as when and where the Chur∣ches of Christendome may most safely and conueniently meete together: not at such a time, as Paulus the third, called a Councell, when all Princes in Chri∣stendome were occupied in great affaires: nor such a place, as he thē appointed at Mantua in Italie, whither Princes could not come without perill of iour∣ney and danger of life, being penned in by the Popes garrisons. Thus Pope, or Bishop Leo, (for then there were no Popes) writ to Martianus the Emperour, to haue the Councell remoued from Calchis to Italie, but hee preuayled not. So Pope Eugenius would haue dissolued the Councell at Basile, and brought it vn∣der his owne nose.

3 We would haue it a free Councell, where euery man might fully vtter his minde, and that there should be a safe conduct graunted to al to come and goe: which the Pope for all his faire promises is vnwilling to doe, as it was flatly de∣nyed to Hierome of Prage in the Councell of Constance: to whome it was an∣swered, that he should haue safe conduct to come, but none to goe. Neither if they should giue a safe conduct, were they to bee trusted, for it cannot bee forgotten, to their perpetuall infamie, that they brake the Emperour Sigis∣munds safe conduct graunted to Iohn Husse in the Councell of Constance, saying, that faith was not to be kept with Hereticks.

4 That the matter should not bee left wholie to Bishops and Prelates, but that the learned of the Clergie and Laitie besides, should giue voices, seeing the cause of religion is common, and concerneth all. But most of all, that nothing bee carried with violence or popularitie, against the Scriptures, but euery matter determined according to the truth thereof.

Such a Councell wee refuse not, nay wee much desire, which is the true generall Councell: that is not generall, where all men cannot speake; no freedome nor libertie graunted for men to vtter the trueth, where all thinges are partially handled, and are swayed by one mans authoritie. Wherefore the Rhemists slander vs in saying wee raile vppon general Councels. annot. in Act. 15.10. and that we refuse them. 2. Galath. 2. Whether wee or they are enemies to true, generall, free, holy, indifferent Councels let all men iudge.

Page  100


THis great and waightie controuersie conteineth tenne seuerall questions.

1 Whether the regiment of the Church be Monarchicall.

2 Whether Peter were the Prince of the Apostles, and by our Sauiour Christ made head of the Church.

3 Whether Peter were at Rome, and dyed Bishop there.

4 Whether the Bishop of Rome be the true successor of Peter.

5 Concerning the primacie of the Bishop of Rome: sixe partes of the que∣stion. First, whether hee haue authoritie ouer other Bishops. Secondly, whe∣ther appeales are to be made to Rome. Thirdly, whether the Pope be subiect to the iudgemēt of any. Fourthly, whether he may be deposed. Fiftly, what primacy he hath ouer other Churches. Sixtly, of his titles and names.

6 Whether the Bishop of Rome may erre, and likewise whether the Church of Rome be subiect to error.

7 Of the spiritual iurisdiction of the Bishop of Rome: two parts. First, whe∣ther he can make lawes to binde the conscience. Secondly, whether other Bi∣shops doe receiue their iurisdiction from him.

8 Of the Popes temporall iurisdiction: two parts. First, whether hee haue authoritie aboue Kings and princes▪ Secondly, whether he be a temporal prince.

9 Of the prerogatiues of the Pope.

10 Concerning Antichrist: nine parts. First, whether Antichrist shall be some one singular man. Secondly, of the time of his comming. Thirdly, of his name. Fourthly, of his nation and kinred. Fiftly, where his place and seate shall be. Sixtly, of his doctrine and manners. Seuenthly, of his miracles. Eight∣ly, of his kingdome and warres. Ninthly, whether the Pope bee the very Anti∣christ: of these in their order.

THE FIRST QVESTION, WHETHER THE Regiment of the Church be Monarchicall.

[error 36] WE are not ignorant that the Philosophers made three formes and states of gouernement in the commonwealth: the Monarchical, when as the prin∣cipall and soueraigne power rested in one, as in the King, Queene or Emperor: as Rome sometime was ruled by Kings, and many yeares after by Emperors. Secondly, the Aristocratical, when the commonwealth was gouerned by an as∣sembly and Senate of nobles, as the Romanes had a long time, their Consuls and Senators. Thirdly, the Democratical, which is the popular state, when the people and multitude bare the greatest sway: as sometime in Rome also, tribuni Page  101 plebis, the officers for the people had the chiefe authoritie. Now of all these in common-wealth matters, the first kinde is the best and safest, the Monarchical or princely gouernement. The question now is, whether the same forme ought to bee reteyned in Church-gouernement: and in this question certaine things are to bee obserued: First, that wee haue not to deale in this place with that part of Ecclesiasticall regiment, wherein the prince hath interest, as in or∣dayning Ecclesiasticall Lawes, and seeing to the execution thereof: but the question is onely of that regiment Ecclesiasticall, which is proper to the gouer∣nors of the Church, which consisteth in the ministerie of the word and Sacra∣ments, in ordaining and electing of Church-ministers, in the dispensing of the keyes of the Church, in the Ecclesiasticall censures and discipline, and such like: whether in the Church there ought to bee one chiefe Bishop, from whom all other receiue this power in the premisses. Secondly, the question is not of the spirituall gouernement of Christ, who is the chiefe Monarch and King of his Church, but of the outward and externall regiment vpon earth. Thirdly, wee speake not of the state of any particular Church, either nationall, prouinciall, or oppidall, but of the generall state of the Church: whether ouer all Churches there ought to be one chiefe Bishop. These things premised, wee come now to the question.

The Papists.

THat there ought to bee one chiefe Monarch and high Bishop ouer all the Church, in all Ecclesiasticall matters, for the deciding of controuersies, preseruing the vnitie of the Church, from whom all other Ecclesiasticall Mini∣sters doe receiue their power and authoritie, they thus would proue.

1 The militant Church is in all things answerable and correspondent to the triumphant companie in Heauen: as Heb. 8.5. Moses was bid to make all things according to the paterne shewed in the Mount. But in heauen there is be∣side God himselfe, a Monarch and chiefe commaunder of the Angels, euen Mi∣chael the Archangel, Reuel. 12.7. Michael and his Angels fought. Ergo, it ought to be so vpon earth.

We answer. First, the Church vpon earth, neither is, nor can be altogether like to the celestiall congregation: for there is no temple, Reuel. 21.22. There shall enter no vncleane thing: and many such like differences there are: We are bid to follow them in holines and obedience, so farre wee must imitate the An∣gels, as in the Lords prayer 3. Petit. As for imitation and conformitie in other things, we haue no such commaundement: we are promised hereafter to be like them, but that is not yet. Neither doth that place proue any such thing, Heb. 8. For how followeth it, Moses was shewed a paterne to make the Tabernacle by, Ergo the Church hath a paterne of her gouernement from Heauen? When they can shew any such paterne reuealed in the word, (for their dreames and phan∣tasies we wil not beleeue) for the Church, as Moses had for the Tabernacle, then they shall say somewhat.

Page  1022 It is a vaine controuersie so to descant of the Angels, as to appoynt them a Captaine and commaunder, and to make nine orders or bands of them, as our Rhemist. annot 1. Ephes. vers. 21. These are but their dreames, they haue not a worde in Scripture for it. And concerning Michael, they are much de∣ceiued, for in that place Apocal. 12.7. Christ is called Michael: Michael and his Angels fought against the Dragon. And who I pray you is the chiefe Captaine of the Church against the diuell and his hoast but Christ? And so is it expounded verse 10. Now is saluation in Heauen, and the strength and King∣dome of our God, and the power of his Christ: Here hee is called Christ, who before is Michael. In other places also, Michael is vnderstood to be Christ, as Dan. 10.21. there is none that holdeth with mee but Michael your Prince: here Michael is the prince of the Church, and not of the Angels. And that Michael is not the prince of the Angels, as our aduersaries meane, taking Mi∣chael for an Angell, it is proued out of the 13. verse. Michael one of the chiefe princes: the Angels are all called princes, and not one to bee prince aboue them.

Likewise the nature and signification of the word Michael agreeth hereun∣to:* for it is compounded of three hebrue particles, as much as to say, one that is e∣quall vnto GOD: which name in that sense cannot bee giuen vnto any creature.

Further, Epistle Iud. 9. there is mention made of Michael the Archangell, who stroue against the diuell, and saide, the Lord rebuke thee Sathan: where the Apostle alludeth, to that place of Zacher. 3.2. where the very same words are found: but there the prophet calleth him Iehouah, that spake those words, and here the Apostle calleth him Michael: so that in this place it must needes bee vnderstoode for Christ.

But to conclude, we denie not, but that Michael may bee the name of some glorious Angell: but out of these places it cannot bee proued. And againe, we will not stand with them, but that there may be degrees of excellencie amongst the Angels, as there shall be amongst the Saints: but that any one hath any such soueraigne and commaunding authoritie ouer the rest, it is a curious and pre∣sumptuous surmise.

2 The Church of the olde Testament was a figure of the Church vnder the New: but they had a high Priest aboue the rest. Ergo, there ought to be now.

We answere, First, we graunt the high Priest was a figure, but neither of Pe∣ter nor Pope, but onely of Christ: for in two things did the high Priest resem∣ble Christ, in offering of sacrifice (so hath Christ offered vp himselfe. Heb. 7.27.) and in entring into the sanctuarie to make attonement for the people: so Christ is entred into the Heauens, to appeare in sight for vs before God, as the apostle saith. Heb. 9.24. I trow in neither of these the high priest could be a type either of Peter or Pope.

2 Neither doth it follow, because there was an high priest in one countrey, therefore there ought to bee one ouer the Churches in al countries: as the Iesuite Page  103 frameth an other argument by a comparison: because a bishop is ouer his dio∣cesse, a Metropolitane ouer his prouince, there may bee as well a Pope ouer the whole Church: For by the same reason, because a Lorde may bee the chiefe in his seignorie, a Duke in his prouince, a Prince in his Kingdome, therefore there ought to bee an Emperour ouer all the world: or as Master Caluine saith, because one fielde is committed to one Husbandman to dresse and to till, therefore the whole Worlde may: which were a thing impossible.

The Protestants.

THat there ought not to be any one chiefe Bishop, Pope or prelate, to exercise iurisdiction ouer the whole Church, wee doe thus make it good.

1 We acknowledge no head of the Church but Christ, neither doth the Scripture attribute this title of Maiestie ouer the whole Church, but onely to Christ. If the Pope or any else bee the head, the Church is his bodie,* which Bellarmine is a shamed to graunt yet. Pope Athanasius doubted not to call populos mundi, partes corporis sui, the people of the Worlde the partes of his bodie.

Againe, if he be the head, hee must doe the duetie of an head, which is, to knit and ioyne the parts together, and to giue effectuall power to euery part. Ephes. 4.16. Where the Apostle alludeth to the gouernement of mans bodie: in the which the parts receiue a double benefite from the head, the knitting and ioyning together by sinewes, which come from the head, and sense and motion also giuen to euery part from the head: but it were blas∣phemie to thinke this of the Pope, that he giueth any influence to the Church. If they answer, he is but a ministeriall head, Christ is the principall. We say a∣gaine, that although these things are principallie wrought by the principall head, yet they must bee done instrumentally or Ministerially by the Ministe∣riall head: or else it is but a rotten head: such an one as the Wolfe found in a caruers shop (as you knowe the fable is) a goodly head, saith hee, but without wit or braine. If Christ performe all the duetie of the head himselfe, then is there no other head: if the Pope doe somewhat, that belongeth to the head, tell vs, what is it? If hee will bee an head, and doe nothing, surely hee must needes bee a brainelesse and witlesse head.

2 It is a daungerous and impossible thing to haue the charge of all Chur∣ches committed to one man: GOD alone is sufficient to beare that burthen. Saint Paule saith, who is sufficient for these things? No pastor or mini∣ster, that is but set ouer one flocke or parish, is sufficient to preach the worde: much lesse is any one man sufficient to gouerne the whole Church.

Bellarmine answereth first: Saint Paul saith of himselfe, that hee had the care of all Churches. 2. Corinth. 11.28. We replie againe, first, then belike Page  104 Saint Paul was vniuersall pastor and not Peter. Secondly, wee must consider that the Apostles were sent to all the world: their calling was not limited: when they had planted the Gospell in one place, they did take care also for o∣ther places: but now there is no such Apostolicall calling. Thirdly, Paul did not beare this burthen alone, but the Apostles and Euangelists were his coadiu∣tors and fellow-helpers.

Secondly, sayth he, why may not the care of the whole Church bee commit∣ted to one man, as well as the gouernment almost of the whole world was ap∣pointed by God to Nabuchadnezzar, Cyrus, Augustus; seeing the gouernement of the Church is easier then the ciuill and politike regiment?

We replie. First, wee neuer reade of any that had dominion ouer the whole world, as the Pope chalengeth to haue ouer the whole Church, which is disper∣sed throughout the world. Secondly, these great and large Monarches are saide to haue been giuen of God, Dan. 2.37. Not that this large dominion and vsurpation ouer other countries so much pleased God: for the people of God the Israelites in their most flourishing estate neuer had such soueraigntie ouer other countries, but by voluntarie subiection, as in Solomons dayes, 1. King. 4.21. the Kings round about brought presents vnto him: But because the Lord tur∣ned and vsed this their large and mightie dominion to the good of his Church: for Cyrus was a defender of the Church, against all that bare euill will thereat: and the large Empire of the Romans serued very commodiously for the propa∣gation of the Gospell. Thirdly, the Iesuite sheweth his skill, when he saith, that the regiment of the Church is easier, then the gouernement of the common∣wealth: Whereas there is no greater and waightier burthen vpon earth, then is the charge of soules. It seemeth the Pope taketh his ease, finding the care of the Church to be so easie and pleasant a thing: in deede as he vseth it, it is no great matter: for hee preacheth not, but giueth himselfe to ease and idlenes and all princely pleasures. But England hath found by experience, and so did that worthie and famous Prince King Henry the eight, that there was neuer matter so hardlie compassed, as was the reformation of the Church, and the suppres∣sion of idolatrie and superstition in this lande. Augustine saith, Nemo no∣strum se episcopum episcoporum constituit, aut quasi tyrannico terrore ad obsequēdi necessitatem collegas suos adigit. de Baptis. 2.2. None of vs doth count him∣selfe a Bishop ouer other Bishops, or taketh vpon him after a commaunding manner, as tyrants vse, to enforce his fellowes to obey. Ergo by his iudgement all Bishops are of like and equall authoritie.

Page  105

THE SECOND QVESTION, WHETHER PETER were the chiefe, and Prince of the Apostles, and assigned by Christ to bee head of the Church.

The Papists.

THis our aduersaries doe stiffelie maintaine, that he was not only head of the [error 37] Church, but of the Apostles also. Bellarmi. lib. 1. de pontif. cap. 11. And the Rhemists doubt not to call him the chiefe and Prince of the Apostles. 1. Corinth. 9. ver. 5.

1 Wee will omitte manie of their waightie arguments, as out of these and such like places: I haue prayed for thee Peter, that thy faith should not fayle: cast forth thy net into the deepe, I will make thee a Fisher of men: Pe∣ter payed toll for Christ and himselfe: Peter drew the net to the land full of great fish: Peter onely drew out his sword in the defence of Christ. Ergo Pe∣ter was the Prince of the Apostles and head of the Church. ex concil. Basilien Fox. pag. 673.

Such other goodlie arguments our Rhemists doe make: Peter did excom∣municate Ananias and Sapphira: he healed the sicke by his shadow. Ergo he was the head of the Church. Annot. 5. Acts se. 5.8. Againe, Peters person was garded with foure quaternions of Souldiours, Act. 12.4. the Church pray∣ed for him. Ibid. sect. 4. Paul nameth Cephas, 1. Cor. 9.5. Ergo hee was chiefe of the Apostles. Are not here goodlie arguments thinke you? To these reasons I neede make no other answere, then that, which our learned countrie man dooth in his Annotations. You must, saith he, bring better arguments or else children will laugh you to scorne. Fulk. Annot. Act. 5. sect. 5. Let vs see there∣fore if they haue any better arguments.

2 They take that to be a maine inuincible place for them, Matth. 16.18. Thou art Peter, and vpon this rocke will I builde my Church. Ergo the Church is built vpon Peter.

To make this argument the more strong, they set vnder it diuerse props: First, why did Christ giue Peter this name more then to any other of the Apo∣stles, to call him Peter, of Petra a Rocke, but to shew that hee was appointed to be the foundation of the Church? Bellarmine cap. 17. Wee answer, Christ hereby signified, that Peter should bee a principall piller of his Church, as the rest of the Apostles, Ephes. 2. He chaunged also the names of some other Apostles, as Iames and Iohn were called Boanerges, the sonnes of thunder, Mark. 3. Therefore this was no such preeminence to Peter, neither is it true that Peter was almost called by no other name, for he is oftē in the Gospel after this called by his old name Simon, Mat. 16.17. & 17, 25. Fulk. Annot. in Ioh. 1. sec. 7. Secondly, againe (saith Bellarmine) the text is aedificabo, I will build my Church: but if Christ be here taken for the rocke, his Church was built alreadie, Page  106 for many beleeued in him. But Peter was not made the foundation of his Church, till afterward after his resurrection, and therefore hee saith, I will build.

Wee answere. First, it is a corrupt glosse, to say the Church of Christ was not builded, till after the resurrection: for seeing that many beleeued before in Christ, and made a Church, either they must graunt, that the Church was without a foundation, or else, that the foundation was changed from Christ to Peter. Secondlie, it is taken therefore for the enlarging and in∣creasing of the Church of GOD. It followeth not, because Christ saith, I will build, and his Church was begun to bee built alreadie, that therefore another kinde of building must bee excogitate: no more then, because Christ gaue his spirite to the Apostles Matth. 10.1. and againe Iohn 20.22. and yet biddeth them stay at Ierusalem till they should receiue the holie Ghost Acts. 1.7. that therefore they should looke for another holy Ghost, or as though they had not receiued the holy Ghost before. But as the sen∣ding of the holy Ghost is meant, for the increase and more plentifull mea∣sure thereof, so is the building of the Church here taken for the increase of the building.

*Wee yet further answere with Augustine: super hanc petram, quam con∣fessus es, aedificabo ecclesiam: vppon this rocke, which thou hast confessed, will I build my Church: so that in this place is meant not Peter to bee the rocke, but either Christ, whome he confessed, or his saith: whereby he con∣fessed him, which commeth all to one effect. There is no great difference, whether wee say, the Church is builded vppon Christ, or faith is the foun∣dation of the Church, for faith is an apprehension of Christ: but of the person of Peter it can no more bee vnderstoode then of the rest of the A∣postles, who in some sence are called the foundation of the Church, namely in respect of their holy Apostolick doctrine vpon the which the Church is built. Ephes. 2.20.

Bellarmine and the Iesuites denie not, but here is relation also to the faith of Peter, but faith considered in his person. We answere: if they meane Pe∣ters particular faith, which was a proper adiunct to himselfe, the vniuersall Church cannot be built vpon that faith, seeing when Peter dyed, his faith al∣so, as a proper accident to his person, ceased: if they vnderstand that generall faith, whereby Peter in the name of all the rest made this confession: then they all are as well made pillars and foundations of the Church, as he, because it was their generall confession. Fulk. annot. in 16. Matth. sect. 8.

3 Another place, which our aduersaries mightely vrge, are those words which follow verse 19. I will giue vnto thee the keyes of the Kingdome of Heauen, whatsoeuer thou shalt binde in earth, shalbe bound in Heauen: Ergo: Peter had especiall iurisdiction giuen him more then any of the rest. Bellarmine cap. 12.

Wee answere. First, as Peter confessed in the name of all the rest, so this Page  107 power is geuen him not onelie for the rest (as the Rhemists falslie charge vs, that we make Peter a proctor for others) but together with the rest: Peters per∣son must be excluded: for immediately after he deserued for a certaine slip of his person to bee called Sathan: it were an vnfit match, the same person at the same time to be honoured with the glorious title of the rock of Christ, and to sustaine so great a rebuke as to bee called Sathan. Secondlie, here is no more promised to Peter then vnto all the rest of the Apostles: Matth. 18.18. They likewise haue authoritie giuen them to binde and loose, and it is performed to them all alike. Iohn 20.23.

2 By the keyes here cannot be vnderstoode that large iurisdiction which the Papists dreame of, as not onely the authoritie and chaire of doctrine, iudgement, knoweledge, discretion betweene true and false doctrine, all which we graunt together with Peter to haue been giuen to al the Apostles be∣sides. But say they, hereby is signified the height of gouernement, the power of making lawes, of calling Councels and confirming them, of ordeyning Bishops and Pastors, finally to dispense the goods of the Church spirituall and tempo∣rall: all this is added without ground, neither had either Peter or any of the Apostles this ample authoritie, no nor the Bishops of Rome for many hun∣dred yeares after Christ. For this plenarie power of the keyes, when they signifie, a soueraigne and chiefe, and surpassing power, are so onely giuen vnto Christ, and to no mortall creature: He is saide to haue the keye of Dauid, who openeth and no man shutteth, who shutteth, and no man openeth. Apocalip. 3.7. Fulk. Annot. 16. Matth. sect. 13.

Lastly, I will oppose the iudgement of the Fathers of the Church, who al∣leadge out of Augustine, that Peter receiued the keyes for the whole Church, and out of Ambrose, that when Christ said to Peter, pasce oues, the blessed Apo∣stle toke not charge of them alone, saith he, but together with vs, and we toge∣ther with him. Fax. pag. 675.

4 Other arguments they alleadge for the primacie and preeminence of Peter, as Matthew 10. Hee is named in the first place. Bellarmine cap. 18. Wee answere, this mought bee, because Peter was the most auncient in yeeres, or one of the first that was called. But howsoeuer it was, it is no great matter: for this order is not alwaie kept, as Galath. 2. Paul nameth Iames first; Iames, Cephas, Iohn, saith hee, verse 9. the Iesuits best shift is heere to denie the text, saying; it should bee read, Cephas, Iames Iohn: vn∣lesse Iames bee named first, because he was Bishop of Ierusalem: Marke I pray you, Ergo at Ierusalem Peter was not before Iames, but next vnto him, therfore not prince of the Apostles. Bellarm. cap. 18.

Againe, say they, Peter standeth vp in the election of Matthias. Acts 1. preacheth the first Sermon, Acts 2. Acts. 15. Peter speaketh first. Wee an∣swere to the first: Wee denie not a primacie of order to haue been in Pe∣ter: but it followeth not, that hee which speaketh first, or giueth the first Page  108 voyce, should bee the head and commaunder of the rest to the second: wee also graunt that Peter in zeale, promptnes and forwardnes, was not be∣hinde any of the Apostles, but euen with the first: for in him was that saying of Christ verified vppon the woman. Shee loued much, because much was forgiuen her, Luk 7: So was it with Peter, to whome Christ for∣gaue much, and therefore hee loued much. To the third wee answere, that by the Iesuites owne confession, Iames, who was (as they say) Bishoppe of Ierusalem, had the primacie there: how then can they now giue it to Peter?

The Protestants.

THat Peter had no such iurisdiction ouer the Apostles, as to bee called the head and Prince of them: but that to them all indifferentlie were the keyes committed, and did all faithfullie execute their Apostleship without any sub∣iection of each to other, but ioyned the right hands of fellowship together: we thus confirme it out of the holy Scripture, and necessarie arguments deriued out of the same.

1 Ephes. 2.20. Apocalips. 21.14. The Church is said to bee built vpon the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles. Ergo no primacie of power amongst the Apostles, they all founded the Church.

Bellarmine confesseth that in respect of their doctrine, there was no difference betweene Peter and the rest,* for they all were first planters of Churches, they all preached the Gospell by reuelation: But in respect of gouernement, they were not equall: they had chiefe authoritie commit∣ted to them as Apostles and Embassadors of Christ: But Peter, as ordinarie pastor.

Wee answere. First, by his owne confession the Apostles had chiefe au∣thoritie as Apostles, but there was no higher authoritie or power then of the Apostleship: but as they were Apostles they were equall (saith the Iesu∣ite:) Ergo there could be no superioritie, for the calling of the Apostles was the highest in the Church.

2 To preach the Gospell, and to haue iurisdiction of gouernement, do both belong to the power of the keyes: but the keyes were equallie committed to all: Ergo they had all equall power both to preach and to gouerne. That they all had the power of the keyes equallie graunted vnto them, wee haue proued before out of Matth. 18.18.

2 Bellarmine himselfe confesseth, that Iames was Bishop and ordinarie pa∣stor at Ierusalem, and saith with Anselme and Thomas Aquinas, that therefore he is named first by Saint Paule, Gal. 2. Bellarm. cap. 19. Therefore at Ierusalem Pe∣ter was to giue primacie to the ordinarie pastor there.

If they answere, that Rome was then the chiefe citie, and therefore Peter be∣ing Page  109 Bishop of Rome was to haue the preeminence: To this we replie: that Ie∣rusalem was rather to be preferred in respect of place, which was chosen by the Lord himselfe, to be the chiefe citie of his Church: But Rome through the ty∣rannie and vsurpation of the Romans ouer other countries was aduanced to that dignitie, not by the election of God.

But Bellarmine answereth, that Peter was Bishop of the whole Church, and so of Ierusalem too. We answere, he now saith lesse for Peter, then if hee cal∣led him, as he was, the Apostle of the whole world: for it was more to be an A∣postle thā a Bishop. Diuers were called in the Apostles times, episcopi, ouerseers, or Bishops, that were not Apostles, as the pastors of Ephesus, Act. 20.28. Where∣fore now hee hath saide iust nothing: in seeking to aduance Peter, hee hath disgraced him, in pulling him downe from his high Apostleship, to the chaire of a Bishop.

3 Peter had no superioritie ouer Paul, for they ioyned right handes of fellowship: and this allotment was made betweene them, that Paule should bee the chiefe of the Gentiles, and Peter of the circumcision, Galath. 2.9. Ergo.

Bellarmine answereth. First, they were ioyned as fellow-laborers in the preaching of the Gospell: but Peter might for all this bee greater in the office and power of gouerning. Wee answere: yea, but the text saith, that Paule onelie was not appointed to preach to the Gentiles, but hee had the chiefe Apostleship. Now to the Apostleship belongeth, not onely the functi∣on of preaching, but the whole vse of the keyes, and power of iurisdic∣tion. Ergo: in all respects Saint Paule ouer the Gentiles had the chiefe A∣postleship.

But let any man say, that this was a humane compact amongst them∣selues, and Paul had his lotte at Peters assignement: the text sheweth, that the Lorde himselfe had made this distribution. For when they sawe, saith Saint Paul, that the Gospell ouer the vncircumcision was committed to mee, verse 7. So then the Apostles did but confirme by their consent, that distribu∣tion, which they sawe the Lord himselfe had appoynted.

Further saith the Iesuite, the diuision was not so made, but that it was lawfull for Peter also to preache to the Gentiles. Wee answeare: wee graunt it, and for Paule to preache to the Iewes, yet that distinction remayned still, that Peter was chiefe of the circumcision, Paule of the vn∣circumcision.

Againe saith hee: but Peter had the more excellent lotte, for Christ him∣selfe first preached to the Iewes. Wee answere, wee denie not, but that hee had the first lotte in order: for to the Iewes was the Gospell first of∣fered: but Paul had the larger and more glorious lotte: the Church of the Iewes, now decaying, and the Gentiles beginning to be planted in their roome. But howsoeuer it was, it cannot bee denied, but that Paule was chiefe towards Page  110 the Gentiles: And therefore the Church of Rome might with better right haue deriued their authoritie from S. Paul, then from Peter: Both of them they cannot make patrons of their See: seeing by their owne rules the Pope cannot be successor to them both.

Further, out of the same place, Galath. 2.11. an other thing commeth to bee obserued: that Peter was rebuked of Paule, and in such sort, that it appeareth there was no great inequality between them▪ for he doth it to his face openlie, before all men, and at Antioch, in Peters owne Bishopricke, as they say, can it be now thought that Paul was any thing inferior to Peter?

*Bellarmine and the Iesuits answere, that the Pope may bee rebuked of an in∣ferior, and ought to take it patiently, if it be done in zeale and loue. Aunswere: First, wee doe not simplie thus conclude, because Paul reprehended Peter, therefore he was not his superior, but because of the manner, as we shewed: it was done in such sorte, so plainely, so openly, without any submission or crauing of pardon, that there can appeare no inequalitie at all betweene them. Secondly, although they seeme heere to graunt, that the Pope may be rebuked, yet is it otherwise in their Canon lawe, which saith, that though the Pope doe leade innumerable soules to hell, no mortall man may pre∣sume to reprooue his faultes, part. 1. distin. 4. cap. Si Papa. Fulk. Annot. in Gala. 2. sect. 8.

4 Lastlie, what reason was there, why Christ should giue the supremacie to Peter ouer the rest? Christ was no acceptor of persons: if hee had bene, Iohn should haue bene preferred, whom he loued most. If deserts be weighed, I think Peter deserued no more then the rest of his fellowes: Nay I thinke the wise∣dome of the Spirit, foreseeing the questions that should afterward arise in the Church about Peter, hath so disposed, that this Apostles infirmities both in number more and weight greater then any of the rest, should be euidentlie set forth in Scripture. We will brieflie runne them ouer, not to derogate from the blessed memorie of so excellent an Apostle; but a litle to stay and bridle the preposterous zeale of our aduersaries, who doe ascribe more vnto him, then euer he would haue challenged to himselfe.

To let passe the smaller slippes and scapes of this Apostle, as his rashnesse in aduenturing beyond his strength, to walke vppon the Sea, Matth. 14. Secondlie, his vnaduised speech in the Mountaine, Math. 17. let vs make three Tabernacles: thirdlie, his ignorance, Matth. 19. In saying to Christ, how often shall I forgiue my brother? till seuen times? Fourthlie, his im∣patiencie, as in drawing out his sworde and cutting off Malchus eare. Fifthlie, his timorousnesse in flying from Christ at his apprehension. Sixt∣lie, his curiositie, Iohn 21. In asking concerning Iohn, what shall this man doe? To let passe these as common infirmities: There are fower great faultes, which Peter fell into, much amplified, and stoode vppon by the fathers.

Page  1111 He deorted our Sauiour from his passion with these words: Master fauour thy selfe, Math. 16. and was therefore called Sathan, an aduersarie to the death of Christ, and so to the redemption of man. Augustine chargeth him with great forgetfulnes, hauing made so notable a confession of Christ before, and noteth him for some sparkes of distrust and infidelitie. Ille Petrus, qui iam eum confessus fuerat filium dei, timuit, ne sicut filius hominis moreretur, in Psal. 138. The same Peter (sayth he) which a little before had confessed him to be the Sonne of God, feared lest he should dye and perish as a man.

2 In promising rashly not to denye Christ, yea vnto death, whereas Christ had foretold him of his fall before, Augustine noteth great presumption: Petrus ex egregio praesumptore creber negator effectus. Epist. 120. cap. 14. Peter of a great presumer, is become a desperate denyer.

3 The third great sinne was committed by Peter in denying of Christ, and that thrice, yea with an oath, at the instance of a mayden, and in a very short while, before the cocke crewe twise, Mark. 14.72. The Iesuite answereth, that this was no hinderance to Peters primacie, but a furtherance and a confirma∣tion of it. But whether it were a let to his primacie or not, let all men iudge, seeing it had been sufficient to haue hindered his saluation and destroyed his faith, without the great mercie of God.

Let vs heare Augustines iudgement of Peters fall. Some man may excuse Pe∣ter, and say, that he did nothing, but as Christ forewarned him. What then (sayth he) if Peter therefore did not amisse, because his fall was foretold by Christ: Re∣ctè etiam fecit Iudas, qui tradidit dominum, quia & hoc praedixerat dominus:* then Iudas did well too (sayth he) in betraying of Christ, for this also Christ shewed afore? But some agayne may say: he denyed not Christ, for hee sayd hee knewe not the man: Quasi vero (sayth he) qui hominem Christum negat,*non Christum neget: as though hee that denyeth the man Christ, doth not flatly denye Christ. Christ also taketh away all doubts (saith he) when he thus said to Peter, the cock shall not crowe till thou hast denyed me thrice: he sayth not, till thou hast de∣nyed the man, but me. Agayne, Ipse potius redarguit defensores suos: Peter him∣selfe doth confute his maintayners and defenders: Agnouit planè peccatum su∣um infirmitas Petri: Peters owne conscience gaue him, that hee had sinned, for he went out and wept bitterly. But if by this meanes his primacie was confir∣med, he had occasion to reioyce, and not to weepe: Yea he wept bitterly, his sinne was very great: how then dare one of your sect say with a blasphemous mouth, Petrus non fidem Christi, sed Christum salua fide negauit:*Peter denyed not the faith of Christ, but his faith remayning safe and sound he denyed Christ? The ancient writers durst not so extenuate Peters fall, no nor Peter himselfe, that wept full sore, as these men presume to doe.

4 The last fault noted in Peter was that, for the which he is reproued of Paul Act. 2. Tush (saith Bellarmine) it was a very small and light offence. Yea, was it so smal a fault to constrayne the Gentiles to doe like the Iewes? for this was the poynt, as S. Paul writeth, Galath. 2.14. And Augustine saith, Petrus non obiurga∣tus Page  112 a Paulo fuit, quòd seruabat consuetudinem Iudaeorum, in qua natus & educatus fuit, sed quòd eam gentibus imponere volebat. Exposit. ad Galat. Peter was not re∣buked of Paule, because hee kept the custome of the Iewes, wherein hee was brought vp, but because he would lay it vpon the Gentiles. Was this leuissimum peccatum, a small transgression? S. Paule should greatly haue been to blame, for rebuking Peter openly, and so plainly for so small an offence, and should haue done agaynst his owne rule, Galath. 6.1. But Peter did it of a good mind (sayth Bellarmine.*) Yea did? then he was worthie to be excused, not worthie of blame, as S. Paule writeth. He might also doe it ignorantly and vnwittingly (saith hee.) How can that be? seeing he was one that made the decree, Act. 15: That no yoke should be layd vpon the Gentiles: other then there expressed, and now contra∣rie to that decree, hee constrayneth the Gentiles, Iudaizare, to play the Iewes. These things doe not hang together.

I will now conclude out of Augustine, as hee alleageth out of Cyprian: Nec Petrus, cum secum Paulus de circumcisione disceptaret, postmodum vindicauit sibi aliquid insolenter, vt diceret se primatum tenere, De baptis. 2.2. Howsoeuer it was, Peter, when Paule reasoned thus with him, did not stand vpon his pan∣tofles, & chalenge any primacie to himselfe. But it is very like, if there had been any such primacie in Peter of power and iurisdiction, (a primacie of order wee graunt, as Cyprian in that place calleth Peter, primum, the first) that this sharpe reprehension of Paul should either haue been spared, or els not done in that ve∣hement manner.


THis question hath two parts: first, whether Peter were at all at Rome or not.

Secondly, whether he were Bishop of Rome.


[error 38] OVR aduersaries would seeme to prooue it by these and such like argu∣ments.

1 Out of that place of S. Peter 1.5.13. the Church that is at Babylon saluteth you: Babylon here (say they) is taken for Rome, from whence Peter wrote his E∣pistle, Bellarm. lib. 2. cap. 2. de pontif. Rhemens. argum. in 1. Epist. Petri.

We answere: First, it is a sillie argument for them hereby to proue Peters be∣ing at Rome: for thus much they haue gayned by it, that Rome is Babylon, and so the seate of Antichrist, Reuel. 18. Secondly, there were two Babylons, one in Sy∣ria, the other in Aegypt, from either of which S. Peter might dare his epistle and it is most like that he would keepe the common and knowne name of the place, that it might be out of doubt what Church he ment: as for the name of Babylon,Page  113 to be ascribed to Rome, though it were so mysticallie, yet was it not so called: for why might not Paule as well haue written his Epistle to the Romanes vnder that name, the Church of Babylon, as Peter wrote from thence?

2 Agayne, they alleadge that storie, how Peter ouercame Simon Magus at Rome, when he would haue taken his flight into the ayre, hauing made himselfe wings, and by the prayer of Peter was brought downe agayne and brake his legges, and so dyed: whereupon Nero being offended with Peter, would haue apprehended him: who being counsailed by the Church, would haue fled from Rome: but meeting Christ at one of the gates, and saying vnto him, whether goest thou Lord? And he answered, I come agayne to be crucified: Peter vpon those words returned backe agayne, and was crucified for the testimonie of Ie∣sus. Bellarm. cap. 2.3.

We answere: First, we denye not that Peter was at Rome, but shewe only the insufficiencie of their arguments: and agayne, we moue such doubts, as by them are yet vnanswered, as afterward shall be shewed. Secondly, concerning this storie of the victorie ouer Simon Magus, they that doubt of Peters being at Rome, may also doubt of this, neither of them being necessarie to be beleeued as articles of faith, but probable and coniecturall, as matters of storie. For some part of the storie is denyed by Augustine, as how Peter fasted vpon the Saturday,* the combat betweene him and Simon Magus, following vpon the Lords day after, and thereupon rose the custome of the Saturday fast among the Romanes: Est quidem (saith he) haec opinio plurimorum, quamuis eam perhibeant esse falsam ple∣ri{que} Romani. This is (saith he) a probable opinion of many, (concerning Peters fast) yet the Romanes themselues thinke it to be false.

3 That concerning Christs apparition to Peter, seemeth to bee most vnlike of all: and sauoureth somewhat of the Popish Legends. Like vnto this are the tales of S. Christopher, how he caried Christ, and how S. Gregorie had him for one of his ghests at his table of hospitalitie: such visions and apparitions of Christ are contrarie to the scriptures, which say, that the heauens must conteyne him till his comming agayne. Bellarmine answereth: first, by this meanes, wee doe compedes Christo inijcere, wee fetter Christ in heauen. We answere, belike then heauen is a prison, with the Iesuite: God send all that are his such a prison at the length. Agayne, Christ is no otherwise concluded and shut vp in heauen, then as it pleaseth himselfe, and as he hath appoynted so to be.

2 He obiecteth: that Christ appeared neere vnto the earth to Paule. We an∣swere: First, there is no such thing proued out of the text, but rather the contra∣rie, that the voyce was heard from heauen; not neere the earth, but aboue, Act. 22.6. Secondly, Paule heard a voyce onely, he sawe no man, neither he nor the companie with him, Act. 9.7, 8. But onely a great light they sawe shining from heauen, Act. 22.6, 9. Therefore out of this place they cannot prooue any such real apparition of Christ.

3 Peter dyed at Rome, his sepulchre is to be seene there to this day: Ergo, he was at Rome. Bellarm. cap. 3.

Page  114We answere: First, it followeth not, if Peter were buried at Rome, that there∣fore he dyed there: for the translation of the bones and bodies of Martyrs is no vnusuall thing in your Church: As it followeth not, because Iohn Baptists head, as you say, is to be seene at S. Siluesters at Rome, that therefore he dyed there; so neither doth it followe of S. Peter.

2 Agayne, how shall wee beleeue you, that it is S. Peters Sepulchre, which is shewed at Rome; seeing you haue made so many mockeries alreadie, making the world beleeue, that Peters bodie is sometime in one place, sometime in an other? Half his bodie (you say) is at S. Peters in Rome, halfe at S. Paules, his head at S. Iohn Laterane, his neather iawe with the beard at Poicters in France, many of his bones at Trieirs, at Geneua part of his brayne. You see that we may as well doubt whether Peters bodie bee at Rome, as in any of these places. And such as you see, are our aduersaries arguments for Peters being at Rome.

The Protestants.

COncerning Peters being at Rome: First, wee doe not vtterly denye it, but onely affirme that he could not come thither so soone as in the second yeare of Claudius, and sit there so long, namely, fiue and twentie yeares, as they hold. Secondly, it may bee graunted, that he was there, as a matter of storie, not an ar∣ticle of faith. Thirdly, wee haue certayne doubts and arguments, about some circumstances of his being there, which our aduersaries are not able to an∣swere.

1 There is great disagreeing amongst the writers, concerning the time of Peters comming to Rome: Orosius sayth hee came thither in the beginning of Claudius raigne: Hierome saith, the 2. yeare of his raigne: other say, the fourth yeare: other, the thirteenth yeare: Damasus would haue him come thither in Nero his raigne. This dissention of writers sheweth that the matter may be iust∣ly doubted of, Fulk. in Rom. 16. sect. 4.

Bellarmine and the Iesuites answere: No more doe all agree concerning the time when the world was created, nor for the storie of Christs life, in what time euery thing was done when he suffered, and such like: yet it followeth not, that those things were not true, because there is some diuersitie about the time, Rhemist. 1. Pet. 5.13.

Wee replie: First, most of these things concerning the chronologie of scrip∣ture, though it be not necessarie to saluation, yet by diligent search may be found in scripture. Secondly, if they can shewe any scripture for Peters being at Rome, as we haue for the other stories, we will beleeue it, though the time perfectly be not knowne: but seeing the scripture maketh no mention at all of his being there, and the time is vncertayne, we may worthilie doubt of it, much lesse are bound necessarilie to beleeue it.

2 The storie of Peters comming to Rome in the second yeare of Claudius, his abiding at Rome fiue & twentie yeres, his death and martyrdome in the 14. yere Page  115 of Nero, and the 37. yeare after Christs ascension: we proue out of the scriptures to bee false. For Peter was at Ierusalem and in those quarters round about till 18. yeares after Christ: for Paul sawe him there 3. yeares after his calling, and agayne 14. yeares after that, Galath. 2. there is 17. yeares, and one yeare was past before Pauls conuersion: in all 18. yeares: adde vnto these the 25. yeares of Pe∣ters being at Rome, that maketh 43. yeares: and so Peter should suffer in Vespa∣sianus raigne, and not in the time of Nero.

Bellarmine and the Iesuites answere: that Peter was at Rome seauen yeares before the Councel held at Ierusalem, Act. 15. which was in the 18. yeare after Christ: and that being expelled the citie by Claudius with the rest of the Iewes, he returned to Ierusalem, and there spake with Paul, and after that went to Rome agayne and there ended his life.

This answere we shewe to bee very insufficient. First, Act. 15.2. it appeareth that there was, as it were, a standing and set councel of the Apostles at Ierusa∣lem, of the which Peter was one: for the Church thought good to send vp to the Apostles and Elders which were at Ierusalem. Secondly, till the 18. yeare when this Councel was held, it seemeth that Peter had laboured onely or especially amongst the Iewes, of whom there were then but fewe at Rome: for, saith the A∣postle, he that was mightie in Peter in the Apostleship ouer the circumcision, was also mightie in me, Gal. 2.8. Therfore Peter was not knowne to haue labou∣red vntill this time in the circumcision. Thirdly, afterward it is more like he went to Antiochia then to Rome: for after this, Paul rebuked Peter at Antioch, Gal. 2. Fourthly, these are but bare coniectures of our aduersaries, and craftie e∣uasion without scripture: but seeing we appose them out of scripture, it is great reason, they should likewise answere vs out of scripture.

3 We haue diuers other obections also out of the scriptures: as first, that if Peter were at Rome, it is not like that Paul would leaue him out in his salutation in the end of his Epistle, Rō. 16. sent to the brethren. Our aduersaries answere but very simplie, that at that time, when S. Paul wrote his Epistle, either Peter was not at Rome, or els Paul might write some especiall letters to him by himselfe, and this Epistle enclosed in them: such goodly coniectures they haue. But I pray you what needed S. Paul to haue written vnto the Romanes, if S. Peter so faithfull and vigilant a Pastor, were continually amongst them?

Other places also of scripture we haue: as Philipp. 2.20. speaking of Timothy he saith, I haue none like minded to him that will faithfully care for your mat∣ters Coloss. 4.11. These onely are my workfellowes, 2. Timoth. 4.11. onely Luke is with me: Ergo, Peter all this while was not at Rome, for Paul would not haue left him out of the number of his fellowe-helpers: at the lest he would not haue commended Timothy, though he were a worthie yong man, before him. That which Bellarmine answereth, is iust nothing: that S. Paul speaketh in those pla∣ces onely of his domesticall helpers, which did minister vnto him: When S. Paul speaketh plainly of his fellowe labourers: these onely are my workfellowes to the kingdome of God, Coloss. 4.11.

Page  116An other argumēt doth arise out of S. Pauls words, 2. Timoth. 4.16. At my first answering no man assisted me: Ergo, it is like that Peter was not then at Rome, for he would not haue forsaken Paul. Bellarmine answereth: that he speaketh onely of such fauourers as hee had in Caesars court, that they would not make sute for him to the Emperour. But this is a weake solution. First, it appeareth by that which followeth, that they left him without helpe in his open Apologie or defence: they did not assist me (sayth he) but the Lord assisted me: that is, gaue me strength to defend my cause: so that the word, assisting, must bee taken in the same sense before, that they fayled him in that, wherein God assisted him, that is, in speaking boldly in the defence of the truth. Secondly, it is proued by the diuers successe that he had at his first and second answering: at the first all left him, but at the next many were emboldened through his bonds: what to doe? more frankly to speake the word, Philipp. 1.14. Ergo, at the first they for∣sooke him, because they were afrayd to speake the word.


[error 39] OVr aduersaries would gladly bring it about that Peter was Bishop of Rome, there enthronised, and sate in the Bishoplike chayre many yeares, and after left it to his successors.

1 The Romane faith was first planted by Peter, for he first preached to the Gentiles, Act. 15.7. Ergo, he was the first Bishop.

Answere: First, that Peter first preached to the Gentiles, it is contrarie to the storie of the Acts: for Paul was conuerted before Peter sawe the vision from heauen, Act. 10. before which time Peter made a great question, whether it were lawfull to preach to the Gentiles. But Paul immediatly after his conuersion preached to the Gentiles, Galath. 2. therefore before Peter. Neither is there any thing to the contrarie, Act. 15.7. the Gentiles beleeued by S. Peters mouth, as he sayth, but not first. Secondly, that Peter first preached not at Rome, it is thus ga∣thered: because it is not like that the Christian faith being spread farre abroad, could be kept from Rome the space of 12. yeares, for so long it was by their ac∣count, before Peter came to Rome. Agayne, there were diuers that dwelled at Rome, which heard the Apostles speake diuers tongues, Act. 2. being straungers then and soiourners at Ierusalem: and Rom. 16.7. he maketh mention of Andro∣nicus and Iunia, which were in Christ before him: By these it is most like that the Christian faith was first sowed at Rome. Thirdly, it is more like that Paul prea∣ched at Rome before Peter: for when he came to Rome, he called the Iewes to∣gether, who sayd vnto him, that they had heard nothing concerning him by let∣ters or from the brethren out of Iudea, Act. 28.22. But if Peter had beene there, Paul no doubt should haue been knowne at the least by name: The Iewes also say vnto him, wee will heare of thee what thou thinkest: and some of them were perswaded by Paul, some beleeued not. It seemeth by this place that the Page  117 Iewes in Rome had not heard of the Gospell before. But if Peter had been a∣mongst them, who had an especiall charge of the circumcision, he would haue had the greatest care of the Iewes to winne them to Christ. Fourthly, though Peter had first preached to the Romanes, it would not followe, that therefore he was Bishop there: for Paul first founded the Church of Ephesus, yet they say Iohn was first Bishop there: wherefore they should gayne nothing by this argu∣ment, if it were true, but that Peter was the first preacher, and conuerter of the Romanes to the faith.

The Protestants.

IF wee take the name of Bishop generally for that office which hath the pub∣lique cure and charge of soules: in that sense we denye not but Peter and the rest of the Apostles may be called Episcopi, Bishops, as Christ is called the shep∣heard and Bishop of our soules, 1. Pet. 2.23. But taking it strictly for a Bishop of this or that place, which is called Episcopus intitulatus, a Bishop entituled, wee denie that either Peter or Paul were Bishops, Fox. pag. 15.

1 Paul was Apostolus Gentium, the Apostle of the Gentiles, and Peter of the circumcision; therefore it is more like that Paul was chiefe Pastor of the Ro∣manes, because they were of the Gentiles, and part of his charge: and vnlesse they can proue that Paul resigned ouer his lot vnto Peter, that he also should be the chiefe Apostle of the Gentiles, as he was of the Iewes; Peter should haue in∣truded himselfe into Paules charge, not in preaching to the Gentiles, (for both Paul might preach to the Iewes, and Peter to the Gentiles) but in taking vpon him to be the chiefe Apostle of the Gentiles, which was giuen before to S. Paul.

2 The Rhemists themselues graunt, that the Church of Rome was founded both by Peter and Paul, annot. in 2. Gal. sect. 6. B. Tunstal a strong champion of theirs, but varying from them in this opinion, shewed in a letter of his to Cardi∣nall Poole, how in times past, both Peter and Paul▪ were counted Patrones of the Church of Rome, and principes apostolorum, the chiefe of the Apostles. Eusebius sayth, that Clement was the third Bishop after Peter and Paul: Alexander suc∣ceeded in the fift place after Peter and Paul: If therefore the Bishops of Rome challenge any preeminence of authoritie from Peter, they may doe it as well from Paul: for they both founded that Church, preached there, and both there suffered, Fox, pag. 1066.

3 No Apostles were Bishops▪ for they were diuers offices, Eph. 4.11. he gaue some to be Apostles, some to be Pastors & Doctors: Ergo, they were diuers offi∣ces, and the same were not Apostles and Pastors or Bishops, for both are all one. The offices were much different: Apostles were immediatly called of God, Bi∣shops and Pastors were ordayned by the Apostles, the Apostles calling was ge∣neral ouer the whole world, the Pastors were obliged to their dioces & parishes & particular Churches: the office of the Apostles was extraordinarie, & but for a time; the calling of Pastors was to endure euer in the Church. Wherfore it can in no wise be that the Apostles were Bishops of any certaine places. Irenaeus saith, Page  118 that Fundata ecclesia beati apostoli Lino officiū episcopatus iniungunt: the Church of Rome once founded, the holy Apostles layd the charge of the Bishopricke vpon Linus. Whereby it appeareth, that they onely reteyned their Apostleship inioyned them of Christ, Tunstal. ex Fox. pag. 1066. It had therefore been con∣trarie to the commaundement of Christ: who sayd, Ite in vniuersum mundum, goe into all the world: if they should haue left their calling, and bound them∣selues to any peculiar Church: Ergo, we conclude that neither Peter nor Paul were Bishops of Rome.

THE FOVRTH QVESTION, WHETHER THE Bishop of Rome be the true successor of S. Peter.

The Papists.

[error 40] THey doe generally hold, that the Bishops of Rome being lineally descended by succession from Peter, they haue the same primacie, apostolike authoritie & iurisdiction ouer the whole Church, which Peter had, Bellar. lib. 2. de pont. c. 12.

They are very barren and scant of arguments in this place to maintaine and vphold this succession by, and in the end the Iesuite runneth to tradition: and at the length he thus concludeth; that it is not, de iure diuino, it is not necessarie by the lawe of God, that the Romane Bishop should be Peters successor: but it de∣pendeth onely vpon the ordinance of Peter,* and is proued by tradition, not di∣duced out of scripture. That it was necessarie for Peter to haue a successor, they say, it is proued out of scripture: which we also graunt, that all faithfull Pastors and Ministers are the Apostles successors, though they haue not their plenarie and Apostolike power: but that the Pope ought to bee and is his successor, it standeth vpon tradition.

We see then the grounds of their opinion: scripture they haue none but blind tradition: vnlesse therefore they could bring better stuffe for the Papall succes∣sion, we will not spend any time in confuting nothing.

The Protestants.

THat the Pope or Bishop of Rome neither can, is, or ought to be S. Peters suc∣cessor, in his high and Apostolike authoritie, primacie, and iurisdiction ouer the whole Church, which Peter himselfe neuer had: thus we declare it.

1 The Pope, though hee were Peters successor, yet can hee not receiue that from him, which he neuer had: but Peter had neuer any such primacie of power, as we haue shewed before, Quaest. 1.2. Ergo, he is not here in his successor.

2 That primacie which Peter had, could not bee conueyed to any other: namely, his primacie of confession, which he first of all the Apostles did vtter concerning Christ, proceeding from faith, did adhere so to his person, that it could not bee deriued to any successor of his: for Peters faith was a proper ad∣iunct to himselfe, Argument. Tonstalli, Fox. pag. 1066.

Agayne, how can he haue the Apostolike authoritie being not an Apostle: Page  119 But an Apostle he is not: for Christ onely made Apostles, the Apostles did not ordayne other Apostles, Argum. Nili.

3 He succeedeth not Peter rightly in place: for seeing Peter sate at Antioch: why may not that Church challenge succession, as well as Rome? Why might not also other Churches haue Apostolike succession, as Alexandria from Peter and Marke, Herusalem from Iames, Constantinople from Andrew?

Further, they haue no certaine succession from Peter: Tertullian maketh Cle∣ment the next successor to Peter. Optatus first nameth Linus, then Clement: Ire∣naeus, after Peter, placeth Linus, and Cletus, and Clement in the fourth: What cer∣taintie therefore can they haue of so vncertaine succession? Fulk. annot. in Rom. 16. sect. 4.

4 It skilleth not who commeth in the place & roome of the Apostles: They that will be their true successors, must followe their example, and walke in their steps, teaching their doctrine and embracing their holie vertues. Wherfore the Pope is not Peters right successor, swaruing both from his doctrine & example. Non sanctorum filij sunt, qui tenent loca sanctorum, sed qui exercent opera eorū. They are not the children of the Saints, which occupie the same places, but they which doe their workes, Lambert.* So Bernard writing to Eugenius chargeth him, that in respect of his pompe and pride, he did rather succeede Constantine, then Peter, Iohann. Huss. pag. 610.

5 All good Bishops and Pastors are as well the Apostles successors, as the Pope, nay rather then he, being a wicked man, Iohn. Huss. articul. 4. Fox. pag. 590. Lambert. pag. 1120. Nay, they haue greater and more excellent titles▪ then to be called the Apostles successors: for those that walke in obedience vnto Gods commandements, our Sauiour calleth them, his sisters, kinsfolkes and brethren, Math. 12.50. Ergo, the Pope is not the right successor of Peter.

Lastly, of this matter Augustine thus writeth: Cathedra tibi quid fecit ecclesiae Romanae, in qua Petrus sedit, & in qua hodie Anastasius sedet:*vel ecclesiae Hyero∣solymitanae, in qua Iacobus sedit, & in qua hodie Iohannes sedet. What hath the Sea of Rome done vnto thee, wherein sometime Peter sate, & where Anastasius now sitteth? or what hath the Church or chaire of Ierusalem committed, where some∣time Iames sate, and Iohn now sitteth? In those words Augustine ascribeth as much to the succession of other Apostolicall Churches, as he doth to the succes∣sion of the Bishops of Rome.* And therefore Canisius craftely leaueth out the one half of the sentence, cōcerning the Church of Ierusalem: Neither is it true, which our aduersaries say, that Peters Sea remaineth still at Rome, when all other Apo∣stolicall Sees are gone: for euen to this day the See of Antioch standeth and hath a Patriark: likewise the See of Alexandria. The See of Constantinople neuer wan∣ted successors to this day: nor the Church of Ephesus: In India and Aethiopia, there hath been alwaies a succession in those Churches planted by the Apostles, and is at this day, Fulk. 2. Thess. 2. sect. 7. Wherefore they haue no cause to bragge of their succession, which is found in other places, as well as at Rome.

Page  120

THE FIFT QVESTION CONCERNING THE primacie of the See of Rome.

THis question hath diuers partes, which must be handled in their order. First, whether the Bishop of Rome haue authority ouer other Bishops. Secondly, whether appeales ought to be made to Rome from other countries. Thirdly, whether the Pope be subiect to the iudgemēt of any. Fourthly, whether he may be deposed. Fiftly, what primacie he hath ouer other Churches, & how it began. Sixtly, of the titles and names giuen to the Bishops of Rome.

THE FIRST PART WHETHER THE BISHOP of Rome hath authoritie ouer other Bishops.
The Papists.

[error 41] THey doubt not to say, that the Bishop of Rome hath authoritie and ought so to haue, to ordaine and constitute Bishops, to depriue and depose them, to restore them likewise to their former dignities, and this power hee exerciseth o∣uer the vniuersall Church.

The Iesuites principall & only argument is drawen from certain examples: how the Bishops of Rome haue in times past, constituted, deposed, and resto∣red some Bishops in the Greeke Church, as in the patriarchal Seas of Constan∣tinople, Alexandria, Antioch: Ergo, hee hath power ouer all Bishops.

We answere: First, It was not done by the absolute authority of the Roman Bishops, any such constitution, or deposition, though perhappes their consent and allowance were required, as Leo writeth thus to Martianus the Emperour, about the ordayning of Anatolius Bishop of Constantinople: Satis sit, quod ve∣strae pietatis auxilio & mei fauoris assensu episcopatum tantae vrbis obtinuit: It is sufficient,* that by your godly helpe and my fauourable assent, he hath obtained so famous a Bishoprick. Whether was greater now, the help and furtherance of the Emperor, or the base assent of Leo? Secondly, wee denie not but that the Pope sometimes, what by sufferance of others, what by his owne intrusion, hath vsurped this power ouer other Bishops: by this ought not to make a law: that which is once or twise done by a false title, cannot prooue the iustnes of the ti∣tle. Thirdly, that the Bishop of Rome hath no such authoritie, it appeareth by this, that he doth not, neither of many yeares hath constituted or ordayned the patriarks of the Greeke Church: they came not vp to Rome nor yet sent thither for their palls as other Archbishops here in the West parts haue done, & paied full dearely for them, being made slaues to the beast of Rome.

Page  121
The Protestants.

THat the Pope neither hath, nor yet ought to haue any such authority ouer o∣ther Bishops: but that euery one in his owne precinct, and iurisdiction hath the chiefe charge: It is thus proued.

1. Peter was not chiefe, neither did exercise iurisdiction ouer the twelue: Ergo, neither the Pope ought to doe ouer other Bishops. The antecedent or first part is thus confirmed. The heauenly Hierusalem, which is the Church of God, is described Apocal. 21. not with one foundation onely of Peter, but with 12. foundations after the number of the Apostles: argument. Tunstalli. To this purpose also hee alleadgeth in saying out of Hierome contra Iouinian.* All the Apostles receiued the keyes of the kingdome of heauen: and vpon them all in∣differently and equally, is the strength of the Church grounded and establi∣shed. Fox. p. 1066.

2. Till the yeare of the Lord 340. there was no respect had to the Church of Rome, but euery Church was ruled by their owne gouernment: afterward followed the Councel of Nice, wherein was decreed, that the whole Church should be deuided into foure circuites or precincts: ouer the which there were foure Metropolitanes or patriarkes set: first the Bishop of Rome: next the Bi∣shop of Alexandria: the third was the Bishop of Antioch: the fourth the Bishop of Ierusalem: and not long after came in the Bishop of Constantinople in the roume of the B. of Antioch. All these had equall authoritie in their prouin∣ces, and one was not to deale within anothers charge: Ergo, the Bishop of Rome had not then the iurisdiction ouer the whole Church, argument. Nili. plura Fox. p. 9.

3. We will adioyne the testimonie of the fathers of Basile, which were all of the Popish sect: what haue the Bishops been in our daies say they, but only sha∣dowes? might they not haue been called shepheards without sheepe? what had they more then their Miters and their staffe, when they could determine no∣thing ouer their subiects? Verily in the primitiue Church, the Bishops had the greatest power and authoritie: but now it was come to that poynt,* that they exceeded the common sort of priests onely in their habite and reuenewes. What plainer testimonie can we haue, then from the papists themselues?

Augustine also agreeth to their sentence: habet omnis episcopus, saith he,*pro licē∣tia libertatis & potestatis suae arbitrium propriū, tanquam iudicari ab alio nō possit, quomodo nec ipse potest alium iudicare, sed expectemus vniuersi iudiciū domini no∣stri Iesu Christi: Euery Bishop is priuiledged by his own authoritie to follow his owne iudgement, neither is subiect to the iudgement of other Bishops, as he is not to iudge them, but they all must be referred to the iudgement of Christ: See then in this place Augustine setteth Bishops in the highest roume in the Church, and sayth, they haue no iudge aboue them but Christ.

Page  122
THE SECOND PART CONCERNING AP∣peales to bee made to Rome.
The Papists.

SVch, say they, is the preeminēt authority of the Bishop of Rome, that appeals [error 42] may be made vnto him from all Churches in the world, and that all ought to stand to his sentence and determination. For the proofe hereof they bring no scripture, nor any sound argumēt, but stand chiefly vpon certain odde examples of some that haue appealed to Rome: which we denie not to haue been done: but our answere more at large is this.

1. One cause of these appeales, was both for that, they which were iustly cōdemned of other Churches, found greater liberty and fauour at Rome, as Api∣arius did, who being condemned in the 6. Aphricane Councel for his detestable conditions, found fauour with Zosimus Bishop of Rome, who wrote for him to the Councel to be receiued agayne. No maruayle then, if licentious fellowes, hoping to finde more fauour at Rome, did appeale thither: As also the ambiti∣on of the Bishops of Rome did somewhat helpe forward this matter, who were as ready to receiue such appeales, as others were to make them.

2. Bishop Tunstal doth answere very fully to this poynt, that, although appeales were made to Rome, yet was it not for any iurisdiction that the See had: but this was the cause, partly for that there were many deuisions and parts taking in the Oriental Churches, as also because many were infected with here∣sies, from the which the West & Occidētal Churches were more free, they were content to referre the cause many times to the Bishop of Rome, as being a more indifferent iudge, and not like to be partial, being no partie in the cause. Nei∣ther was their 〈◊〉 to the Bishop of Rome singularly, but to the whole congre∣gation of the Bishops of Italie and France, or of the whole West, as it appeareth by the epistles of Basile. Tunstal. apud Fox. 1067.

The Protestants.

That appeales ought not to be made to Rome, but that all matters and con∣trouersies may best be ended and determined at home, where they doe arise: It is thus confirmed.

1. This matter was notably handled, anno 420. in the sixt Councel of Car∣thage, where Augustine was present, with Prosper and Orosius: To this Coun∣cel Pope Zozimus sent his Legate with certaine requests, of the which this was one, that it might be lawful for Bishops and priests to appeale from the sentence of their Metropolitanes, and also of the Councel to Rome: alleadging for him self a decree of the Nicene Councel. The Councel of Carthage sent forthwith to the patriarkes of Cōstantinople, Antioch & Alexandria, for a copie of the Coūcel Page  123 of Nice, wherein no such Canon was found, that appeales should bee made to Rome: but the contrary: for in the sixt Canon of that Councel, it was founde how all matters, and all persons ecclesiasticall, both Bishops and others were committed to their Metropolitanes: vpon this decree the Councel of Carthage drew out certain reasons why appeales should not be made to Rome. First, it is not otherwise to be thought, but that the grace of God is as ready at hande in one prouince as in another. Secondly, there is no neede to seeke any outlandish help: for the partie grieued may appeale to a prouinciall or generall Councel. Thirdly, it were not equall nor right to appeale from the Councel to the Bishop of Rome: for it is not like, that God will inspire his truth vnto the Bishop, and denie it to a multitude congregated in his name.

Fourthly, no forraine or outlandish iudgement can be so vpright or iust: be∣cause the witnesses cannot be present, being hindered by infirmitie of sex, age, sicknes, by whom the truth should be discussed.

Vpon these reasons the Councel concluded, that neither any appeales should be made to Rome: neither that Legates should be sent from Rome for deciding of matters: And this answere they made to Zozimus first, to Bonifa∣cius and Celestinus, that in short time one succeeded another. And for all the B. of Rome his absolution, Apiarius was againe called coram, and brought to confesse his fault. Fox. p. 10. col. 2.

Now out of the Acts of this Councel, and their reasons alleadged wee con∣clude, that it is not fit, conuenient nor reasonable, that appeals should be made to Rome.

The Iesuite answereth, that appeales were forbidden to be made by priests to Rome, not by Bishops. This is but a vaine shift, for the reasons of the Coun∣cel are general against all appeales: And Apiarius, that appealed to Rome, was a priest, and no Bishop.

2. We can bring the decrees of a latter Councell, then this of Carthage: for in the Councell of Basile it was decreed, that no actions or controuersies should be brought from other countries to be pleaded at Rome▪ which were more then foure daies iourney distant from the said court of Rome, a few princi∣pall matters onely excepted, apud Fox. p. 697.

3. This also is flatly contrary to the rule of the Apostle, that appellations should be made out of the Church a far off. Is it so, sayth hee, that there is not a wise man amongst you, no not one that can iudge amongst his brethren? 1. Cor. 6.5. Ergo, euery Church hath wise men sufficient in it, whereby their con∣trouersies may be ended.

4. Augustine also thus writeth concerning this matter, Miltiades Episcopus Romanus, non sibi vsurpauit iudicium de causa Ceciliani, sed rogatus imperator iu∣dices misit Episcopos, qui cum eo sederent, epist. 162. Miltiades Bishop of Rome did not vsurpe or take vpon himselfe to iudge the cause of Cecilian, but the Emperour being requested, sent other bishops, that should sit and determine the cause together with him. Out of these words first we note, that it had beene Page  124 vsurpation and presumption for the Bishop of Rome to haue taken vpon him the iudgement of this matter, not belonging vnto him, vnlesse the Emperor had committed it. Secondly, that Miltiades did not suffer other Bishops to sitte with him, as Bellarmine imagineth: but, he could not otherwise choyse, for they were ioyned in commission by the Emperour, to be iudges as well as he. Thus we see what small shew or colour of title the Pope hath, to heare or receiue ap∣peales from other countries.

THE THIRD PART, WHETHER THE Pope be subiect to the iudgement of anye.
The Papists.

[error 43] THe Pope neither can nor ought to bee iudged either of the Emperour, or anie other Seculare or ecclesiasticall Magistrate, no not of any generall Councel, Bellarmin. cap. 26. Nay, hee should doe iniurie vnto GOD, to sub∣mit himselfe to the iudgement of any, Iacobat. ex Tilhemann. de pontif. rom. err. 34.

Beside certayne blinde canons and constitutions, and a fewe examples grounded vpon the insolent practises of Popes, they haue no other arguments either out of scripture, or drawen from reason, to confirme this their hideous and monstrous opinion withal.

Bellarmine reasoneth thus: the Prince is not to bee iudged by the com∣monwealth: but is greater then his kingdome: the Pope is the prince of the Church: Ergo

We answere: First, concerning the Princes high and Soueraigne authority we will not now dispute: we make it not infinite, the word of God must bee a rule and square both of ciuill and ecclesiasticall iudgement. Secondly, It is suf∣ficient for vs here to answere, that the Iesuite hath sayd nothing: for this which he assumeth for a reason, is the greatest matter in question between vs: and so great an vntruth he hath vttered, that he is constrained to leaue scripture, and seeke helpe else-where. But he shall neuer, by any good reason, or sufficient authority prooue, that the Pope hath any such Princedome in the Church, as he would beare vs in hand.

The Protestants.

THat the Pope as well as other ecclesiasticall persons, ought to be, and is by right subiect to the iudgement and authoritie of the Emperor, King, Prince, or other supreame magistrate, and may also by generall Councels be corrected and censured, thus it is proued.

1. Peter was iudged of Paul, Galat. 2. and of him iustly reproued: Ergo, the doings of the Pope may be iudged and censured.

Bellarmine answereth, that it was not iudicialis censurae, but fraterna correp∣tio, it was no iudiciall censure, but a brotherly reprehension.

Page  125We replie: First, publike censure and reprehension is a part of ecclesiasticall iudgement and discipline, therefore Peter being publikely rebuked, was ther∣by iudged also of Paul. Secondly, the question is not onely concerning publike & open iudgement, but whether it be lawfull to call the Popes doings into que∣stion, & whether his decrees are absolutely to be receiued without any scāning or discussing, or making any doubt thereof: for this we hold, that it is the duety of all Christians to examine and trie the trueth of all things, which they are to receiue and beleeue, though they sit not formally and iudicially, as in consisto∣ries: to iudge their spirituall pastors: so the Beraeans iudged of the Apostles doctrine: so may the Popes decrees be examined and iudged. Thirdly, the Ie∣suite granteth that the Pope may be rebuked and brotherly reproued, but the Extrauagant denieth it: non est, qui audeat dicere, domine curfacis sic? none dare say vnto him, sir why doest thou so?*

2. Euery soule must be subiect to the higher powers, Ergo, the Pope, Rom. 13.1. Bellarm. answereth, that the Apostle here speaketh of all superiours both spirituall and temporall, and therefore it cannot bee concluded, that the Pope ought to obey, but hee must bee obeyed, because hee is also a spirituall po∣wer.

We replie: Saint Paul in this place speaketh onely of the ciuill Magistrate. First he calleth them 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, Princes, which is not meant of ecclesiasticall or Church gouernors, nor so taken in any place of scripture. Secondly, they are sayd to beare the sword. Thirdly, tribute is payde to them: those thinges agree not to ecclesiasticall gouernors: so the Iesuite is answered.

THE FOVRTH PART, WHETHER THE Pope may be deposed from his papacie.
The Papists.

SOme of them holde that the Pope ought not, neither can be deposed for he∣resie; [error 44] because it is not possible for the Pope to fall into heresie. Pighius the Iesuite confesseth this to be a probable opinion: but himselfe defendeth it not: he confesseth also the opinion of Caietanus, that the Pope may be deposed for manifest and apparant heresie. Bellarmines opinion is this: that the pope can not be deposed for any cause but heresie: and not for all heresie, but that which is manifest and apparant: Neither is he then deposed by any act of the Church, but is of himselfe deposed, and ceaseth any more to bee pope: so the Church may afterward punish him, but he is then no Pope, for as soone as he is become an hereticke, his popedome in the very Acte is gone from him, Bellarmin. cap. 30.

He reasoneth thus: A manifest hereticke is not so much as a member of the Church, much lesse can he be pope, who they say is the heade of the Church, and therefore in such a case the pope is deposed without anie sentence: and if Page  129 afterward the Church proceede against him, they doe not iudge the Pope▪ for he had lost his papacie before.

We answer: First, if a manifest hereticke be actually deposed, it is by the se∣cret iudgement and sentence of God: for by no other authority can he be depo∣sed as they hold: but before God manifest heresie, and close and secret heresie is all one: therefore the Pope is also actually deposed for secret heresie, and not onely for manifest: and so some of the papists think, as Iohann. de Turre veniata. Secondly, what call you manifest heresie? or how is hee knowen to bee a ma∣nifest hereticke? Can hee bee an heretick before hee bee conuinced? shall iudgement passe against him vncondemned? A murtherer is a dead man by lawe, yet hee liueth till iudgement passe vpon him: so is the Pope beeing an heretick, yet Pope, till he be iudicially proceeded against; as a murtherer dead by right is in act yet liuing, till by law he is depriued of his life. An heretick, sayth Saint Paul, after two or three admonitions auoyd: that is, saith the Iesuite, he is now excommunicate before the sentence of the iudge. Be it so, but hee must first be admonished, and if he still continue obstinate, then he is a manifest heretike: so before the Pope can be knowen to be a manifest heretick, he must be found obstinate, he cannot be obstinate, vnlesse he refuse to be admonished, if he be admonished, then is he iudged. Thirdly, an heretick ceaseth not to bee a priest, (as they speake) no not after heresie is knowen, for manifest heretickes may baptize. The Donatists in Augustines time were manifest hereticks, and yet the Church did not baptize againe after them: If a manifest heretick cease not to be a priest, neither ceaseth he to be Pope; there is like reason of both: for if an heretick, because he is not a member of the Church, can not be a Pope, neither also can he retayne the priesthood.

Lastly, who seeth not what bare and friuolous shifts those are? one saith, the Church may iudge the Pope,* not as he is Pope, but in respect of his person: an other sayth, that they may iudge the man which was Pope, but hee is then no Pope, because his heresie tooke from him the papacie. Why masters what iug∣ling is here? is the Pope one thing and the Popes person an other? By the same reason you may say, that the Pope neither eateth, nor drinketh, nor sleepeth, nor dieth, and so make a god of him, because it is the popes person that doth all this, and not the Pope.

And by this shift you make no difference betweene an heretick Bishop, o heretick priest, and heretick Pope: for by the same reason, none of them all shall be subiect to the iudgement of the Church: for we may say, that a manifest he∣retick, whether Bishop or priest, hath lost by that very act of falling into heresie, his priesthood and Bishoprick, and then is neither Bishop nor priest. And so you may conclude altogether: that neither Pope, Bishop nor piest can bee deposed from heresie.

The Protestants.

WE doubt not to say, that the Pope both lawfully hath been depriued som∣time by the Emperour, somtime by generall Councels, not onely for he∣sie, Page  127 but for other notable crimes, and may still bee proceeded agaynst by the same right, as well as any other Bishop or Prelate.

1 Diuers examples wee are able to bring forth, how the Pope hath been de∣posed for other crimes, beside heresie. Pope Iohn the 13. was deposed in a ge∣nerall Councel by the consent of Otho the Emperour, for other matter beside heresie: as that he ordayned Deacons in a stable, that he committed incest with two of his sisters, that playing at dice, he called to the diuell for helpe, that he defloured virgins, that he lay with Stephana his fathers concubine, likewise with Ramera and Anna, and her Neece: for these beastlie parts and such like, he was deposed: there was no heresie obiected agaynst him. And thinke you not he was worthily vnpoped? yet the Papists thinke no: for they admit no cause of depriuation but heresie. This deuillish Pope, through the harlots of Rome (for he was well beloued of them) recouered his Popedome agayne; but at the length the Lord himselfe displaced him: for in the tenth yeere of his Pope∣dome, being founde without the citie with an other mans wife, hee was so wounded of her husbande, that within eight dayes after hee dyed, Fox. pag. 159.

Boniface the 7. tooke Pope Iohn the 15. who was made Pope a little before, and hee expelled, yet recouering the Papacie by force, hee tooke him, put out his eyes, and threwe him in prison where he was famished: Likewise was Iohn the 18. serued by Gregorie the 5. his eyes were thrust out first,* and he afterward slayne. I meruaile how our Catholikes can excuse these furious outrages of their ghostly fathers of Rome!

In the Councel of Brixia, Gregorie the 7. was deposed, not for heresie, but for other abominable vices: as maintayning of periurie and murthers: for follow∣ing Diuinations & Dreames, Sorcerie & Necromancie, Fox. p. 181. Pope Iohn the 23. deposed in the Councel of Constance: Eugenius in the Councel at Basile: yet neither of them for heresie. And yet our aduersaries would still make vs be∣leeue, that Popes cannot be deposed for any crime but heresie.

2 We can haue no better argument, then from our aduersaries themselues. It is a sport to see what diuers opinions they hold, and doe runne as it were in a maze, not knowing which way to get out. Pighius thinketh, that the Pope cannot possiblie fall into heresie, and therefore for no cause may bee deposed: Some other thinke that the Pope for secret and close heresie is actually deposed of GOD, and may also bee deposed and iudged of the Church: thus holdeth Iohann. de turre cremat. Caietanus is of opinion, that for manifest and open he∣resie the Pope is both alreadie by right deposed, and may also actually be depo∣sed of the Church: But Bellarmine confuteth all these. There is a fourth opinion most grosse: that the Pope neither for secret nor open heresie, is either alreadie of right deposed, or may be actually depriued of the Church. Lastly commeth in the nice and daintie Iesuite with his quirkes and quiddities, who sayth, that the Pope in case of manifest heresie, ceaseth to bee Pope, and is euen now de∣posed: and if after the Church proceede agaynst him, they iudge not the Page  128 Pope, for now hee is no Pope: Which opinion how absurd it is, I haue decla∣red before.

THE FIFT PART CONCERNING THE ORIGI∣nall and beginning of the primacie of Rome.
The Papists.

THey doe boldly affirme without any ground, that the primacie of that See [error 45] hath his beginning from no other but Christ: they are the Iesuites owne words: Romani pontificis ecclesiasticum principatum, authore Christo, principium accepisse: that the princely dignitie of the Bishop of Rome, acknowledgeth no other author or beginner thereof, but Christ, Bellarm. cap. 7. lib. 2.

1 They would build the primacie of the Romane Church vpon certaine places of scripture: as Math. 16. Thou art Peter, and vpon this rocke will I build my Church. Luk. 22. I haue prayed for thee Peter, that thy faith should not faile. Iohn 21. Christ sayd to Peter, feede my sheepe: Ergo, Peter and Peters successors haue their primacie from Christ, Bellarm.

To these places Tunstal and Stokeslie two Popish Bishops, yet in this poynt holding the truth, did properly make answere in their Epistle sent to Cardinall Poole.

To the first: They affirme out of the ancient expositors, that it is ment of the faith which was then first confessed by the mouth of Peter, and not of Peters person. Further, confirming out of S. Paul, that neither Peter, nor no creature beside, could bee the foundation of the Church: for no other foundation can any man lay (sayth the Apostle) besides that which is layd, Iesus Christ, 1. Cor. 3.

To the second they answere: that Christ speaketh onely of the fall of Peter, which hee knewe in his godlie prescience, giuing an inkling vnto him, that after his fall hee should bee conuerted and strengthen his brethren: for if it were ment also of Peters successors, they must first faile in faith, and after con∣firme their brethren.

To the third: The whole flock of Christ was not committed to Peter to feede: for he himselfe testifieth the contrarie, exhorting all Pastors to feede the flocke of Christ,* which was giuen them in charge by Christ, as it followeth in that place: when the chiefe shepheard shall appeare, ye shall receiue the incorrup∣tible Crowne of eternall glorie: He calleth not himselfe the chiefe shepheard, but onely Christ. It is euident therefore (say they) that your 3. scriptures ment nothing lesse, then such a primacie ouer all, Fox. pag. 1067.

2 There can bee no time assigned since Christ (say they) when this primacie should begin, nor no author named that brought it in: Ergo, it must needes bee attributed to Christ, he must of necessitie bee found the au∣thor thereof.

Page  129We answere: the time may bee assigned, the authors named, when, and by whom this pretensed and vsurped authoritie was brought in, as euen now wee will shewe.

The Protestants.

THat the vsurped iurisdiction of Rome tooke not the beginning from Christ, nor his Apostles, neither was heard of for many yeres after: we thus are able to proue it.

1 Before the Nicene Councel, which first deuided the regiment of the Church into foure Patriarchal seates: Rome had small or no preeminence. So Aeneas Syluius witnesseth, who afterward was Pope of Rome, and called Pius the 2. Ante Nicenum concilium sibi quisque viuebat, & ad Romanam ecclesiam paruus habebatur respectus, Epist. 301. Before the Nicene Councel, euery Bishop liued to himselfe, there was no great respect had to the Church of Rome. What more euident testimonie can wee haue then of a Pope himselfe? Yet the Iesuite sayth, that it is false in part, which hee writeth. He is somewhat man∣nerly, in making him but halfe a lyer: yet I wonder that he will confesse any vntruth at all in his ghostly fathers words, Bellarm. cap. 17. lib. 2.

Secondly, in the Councel of Nice there was no primacie of power giuen to Rome ouer the whole Church: but the other Patriarkes of Alexandria, Antioch, Ierusalem, were priuiledged in like manner in their confines, as the Bishop of Rome was in his: They had all equall authoritie giuen them in their owne pro∣uinces: Sic Tonstall. Stokesli. ad Poolum.

Thirdly, afterward there was a certayne primacie of order graunted vnto the Patriarke of Rome aboue other Patriarkes; as to haue the first place, to sit first, to giue his sentence first. One cause hereof was, for that Rome was then the Emperiall and chiefe citie in all the world: this reason was rendered in the Councel of Chalcedon. Can. 28. An other cause thereof,* was the ample priui∣ledges and immunities, which the Emperours endued it withall, as Constantine the great: and Gratianus the Emperour made a lawe, that all men should re∣teyne that religion, which Damasus of Rome, and Peter Bishop of Alexandria did hold.

A third cause was, the vnquiet estate of the Greeke Church, who often vo∣luntarily referred their matters to the Bishop of Rome, as being lesse partiall and a more indifferent Iudge, they themselues being diuided and rent into sects. And hereupon, and other like causes it came about,* that the Bishop of Rome a little stepped aboue his fellowe Patriarkes, but yet had no such preeminent au∣thoritie, as to commaund them.

Fourthly, the Pope of Rome being thus tickled with vayne glorie, because they were reuerenced of other Churches, many matters were committed vnto them, and their consent required vnto the decrees of Councels, when they were Page  130 absent. Hereupon they laboured euery day more and more to aduance that See, taking euery small occasion that might helpe forward their ambicious desire, till Anno. 606. or somewhat after, Boniface the 3. obtayned of wicked Phocas the Emperour (who murthered his master the Emperour Mauritius and his chil∣dren, to come to the Empire, and was after slaine himselfe of Heraclius that suc∣ceeded him) of him, I say, Boniface for himselfe and his successors obtayned, to bee called vniuersall Bishops ouer the whole Church:* and the See of Rome to haue the preeminence aboue all other Churches in the world.

Afterward in Pope Zacharie his time, the proude and insolent iurisdiction of Rome was established by Pipinus King of France, who aspired to the Crowne, and obtayned it by the sayd Popes meanes, first deposing Childericus the right∣full King, and dispensing with the oath, which the French men had made before to Childericus, Calum. Institut. 4. cap. 7. sect. 17.

Thus then it sufficiently appeareth, that the primacie of Rome, which it now vniustly challengeth ouer other Churches, is not of any such antiquitie, as they would beare the world in hand, neither that it had the beginning from Christ: but both the time when, and the authors by whom it began, may bee easily assigned.

2 Wee neede no better argument, to proue that the primacie of Rome hath not his originall from Christ, then the Iesuites owne confession. First, he sayth, that it doth not depend of Christs institution, but, ex Petri facto, of Peters fact, that the Bishop of Rome should bee rather Peters successor, then the Bishop of Antioch, or any other: It is not, iure diuino, saith he, by Gods lawe: neither is it, ex prima institutione pontificatus, quae in Euangelio legitur, of the first institution whereof wee reade in the Gospell. And agayne, Romanum pontificem succedere Petro, non habetur expresse in scripturis: It is not expressely set downe in scripture, that the Bishop of Rome should succeede Peter: but it is grounded onely vpon the tradition of Peter. Nay, he saith further, that Peter needed not to haue cho∣sen any particular place for succession, and he might as well haue chosen An∣tioch as Rome: Ergo, neither is the succession of Rome grounded vpon scripture, neither any commandement of Christ: for then Peter could not haue had free choyse to appoynt his successor where he would himselfe, as the Iesuite saith, if he had had any especiall direction or commaundement from Christ. So then, marke I pray you, they cannot proue out of scripture, that the Bishop of Rome ought to succeede Peter in the chiefe Bishopricke, but onely that Peter had the chiefe Bishopricke committed to him and his successors in generall, whosoeuer they should appoynt: Ergo, the Bishops of Rome by their owne confession, can alleadge no scripture, institution, or commandement of Christ, for the primacie of the Church to bee annexed to the See of Rome: and yet agaynst their know∣ledge they will alleadge scripture to colour the matter withall, Bellarm. lib. 2. de pontif. ca. 17.

3 Augustine saith: Secundum honorum vocabula, quae iam ecclesiae vsus obti∣nuit, episcopatus presbyterio maior est. The office of a Bishop is aboue the office Page  131 of a Priest, according to the names of honour, which the Church by custome hath obtayned. If then the difference of those two offices, both named in scrip∣ture, did arise rather and spring of the custome of the Church, which thought it good to distinguish them for auoyding of schisme, and is not grounded vpon the authoritie of scripture: much lesse can the Pope (whose neither name, nor office is expressed in scripture) fetch from thence any shew of proofe, for his v∣surped primacie.

THE SIXT PART OF THIS QVESTION, CONCER∣ning the proud names and vayne glorious titles of the Pope.
The Papists.

BEllarmine setteth downe to the number of fifteene glorious names which [error 46] haue been of old giuen (as he saith) to the Bishop of Rome, whereby his pri∣macie ouer other Bishops is notoriously knowne: but the principall are these: He is called the Pope and chiefe Father, the prince of Priests, or high Bishop, the Vicar of Christ, the head of the Church, the Prelate of the Apostolike See, vniuersall Bishop. These sixe names or titles they doe appropriate to the See of Rome, Bellarm. de Roman. pontif. lib. 2. cap. 31.

The Protestants.

WE will shewe by Gods grace, that these sixe seuerall titles and names a∣foresayd, are either such, as ought not in their sense to be attributed to any Bishop, nor any mortall man▪ or els were common in ancient times as well to o∣ther Bishops, as to him of Rome.

1 For the first name of Pope, it is deriued from the Greeke word 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, which in the Syracusane language, is as much as, Father: which name was indif∣ferently giuen to other Bishops, which were famous in the Church for their ver∣tue and learning: As Cypriane, Epiphanius, Athanasius, were called Papae, Popes:*Augustine saluteth Aurelius President of the 6. Councel of Carthage, by the name of Pope, Epistol. 77.

Likewise, those two epithetes of the Pope, as to bee called, Beatissim. & san∣ctissim. pater: most holy and blessed father, were vsed in the stile of other Bis∣shops: Prosper, in his Epistle to Augustine, twise calleth him Dominum beatissi∣mum papam, Lord, most blessed Pope, Tom. 7. Hierome calleth Epiphanius, Bea∣tum papam, blessed Pope, Ad Eustach. Fabiol.

Augustine writing to Petrus the Presbyter, or Priest, being no Bishop, yet thus saluteth him: Ad sanctitatem tuam scripsit, he hath written to your holines.* Nay, in his booke dedicated to Renatus a lay man, neither Priest nor Bishop, thus he writeth, Hinc angor, quòd sanctitati tuae▪ minus quàm vellem cognitus sum: This grieueth me, that I am not so well knowne to your holines as I desire. If Page  132 then these titles of holinesse and blessednesse were not onely giuen to Bishops, but Priests also, yea vnto lay men of vertuous and holy life; what colour or shewe of reason can our aduersaries haue, to make them proper to the Bishop of Rome?

2 The second name is prince of Priests, or high and chiefe Bishop: which title, if it be taken for a chiefe power, dominion, and soueraigntie, is proper only to Christ the chiefe shepheard, 1. Pet. 5.4. and cannot in that sense agree to any man. If it bee vsed onely as a title of excellencie and commendation, so was it in times past ascribed to other excellent and famous Bishops, as Ruffinus lib. 2. cap. 26. calleth Athanasius, Pontificem maximum, chiefe Bishop: yea it was in common giuen to all Bishops: as Anacletus Bishop of Rome in his second Epistle writeth thus: Summi sacerdotes, id est, Episcopi, a deo iudicandi sunt: The high Priests, that is, Bishops (saith he) are to bee iudged of God. If it be taken further for the excellencie of the ministerie of the Gospell, and the worthie cal∣ling of Christians, in this sense the title of summum sacerdotium, of the high Priesthood, is attributed to all ministers Ecclesiasticall, both Bishops and o∣thers:* so Fabianus Bishop of Rome vseth this name. Yea, the holy Apostle cal∣leth all the people of God 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, a princely, royall, or chiefe priest∣hood: Ergo, the Bishop of Rome hath no especiall or proper interest in this name.

3 The third name is, to bee called the Vicar of Christ vpon earth. Where we are to vnderstand, that in respect of the spirituall regiment and kingdome of Christ, he needeth no Vicegerent vpon earth: for, I am with you (saith he) to the end of the world: he himselfe is alway present in power, and needeth not in that respect, that any man should supplie his roume. Petrus scriba martyr. Fox. pag. 906. If we doe take it for a word of office and publike administration, so the Magistrate may bee called the Vicar of Christ, in gouerning the people accor∣ding to the word of God: In which sense Eleutherius Bishop of Rome, writing to Lucius King of the Britaines, calleth him the Vicar of Christ, and therfore in his owne kingdome had power out of the word of God to establish lawes,* for the gouernment of the people. So all Bishops, Pastors and Ministers in ancient time were called the Vicars of Christ, in preaching, praying, binding and loosing in the name and power of Christ.* So Augustine saith, or whose worke els it is, that, Omnis antistes est Christi vicarius: Euery pastor and prelate (and not the Pope onely) is the Vicar of Christ. And this is confessed by our Rhemists, annot. in 2. Cor. 5.18. that the Bishops and priests of the Church are for Christ, and as his ministers,* that is, his Vicars. Nay, Augustine maketh yet a more generall vse of this word: he saith, that, Homo imperium Dei habens, quasi vicarius eius est: That man by creation being made Lord of the creatures, doth therein represent God, and is as his Vicar vpon earth. So then, all ministers are the Vicars of Christ; the ciuill Magistrate likewise, in some good sense, may bee so called: yea in respect of the creatures, man generallie is vpon earth in Gods steade: Ergo, this name cannot be appropriate to the Pope of Rome.

Page  1334 It is also too huge a name for the Pope or any mortall man to beare, to be called the head of the vniuersall Church: this is a name only due vnto Christ, neither doe the scriptures acknowledge any other head, but him, Ephes. But (say they) wee doe not make the Pope such an head, as Christ is, but on∣ly a ministeriall head ouer the militant Church vpon earth.

We answere: First, Ergo, the Pope by your owne confession is not head of the vniuersall Church, whereof the triumphant Church in heauen is a part. Se∣condly, the Rhemists confesse that the Church in no sense can bee called the bo∣die of the Pope: Ergo, the Pope cannot be any wayes the head of the vniuersall Church, Annot. in 1. Ephes. 22. Thirdly, the Fathers of Basile vsed this argument: The head of the bodie being dead, the whole bodie also dyeth; but the whole Church doth not perish with the Pope: Ergo, he is not properly the head of the Church, Fox pag. 675.

If it shall bee further obiected, that the Bishop of Rome hath been called in times past, caput Episcoporum, the head of all other Bishops: we answere, that it was but a title of excellencie and commendation, not of dominion and power: as London is called the head or chiefe citie of England, yet are not other cities of the land subiect vnto it, or vnder the iurisdiction thereof. But we shall haue oc∣casion more fully to discusse this matter afterward.

5 They would haue the Pope called the Prelate of the Apostolike See: the Rhemists say further, that the Papall dignitie is a continuall Apostleship, Annot. 4. Ephes. sect. 4.

We answere: First, if they call those Churches Apostolicall, whose first foun∣ders were the Apostles, then the See of Antioch, Alexandria, Constantinople, are as well Apostolicall as Rome: and this the Iesuite denyeth not, Lib. 2. de pontific. cap. 31. Secondly, those Churches are Apostolicall, which hold the Apostolike faith: so is not the See of Rome Apostolicall, being departed and gone backe from the ancient Catholike faith: but those Churches where the Gospell of Ie∣sus Christ is truely preached, are indeede Apostolike. Thirdly, how can the Pope be an Apostle, or haue Apostolike authoritie, seeing hee preacheth not at all, much lesse to the whole world, wherein consisted the office of an Apostle? Nei∣ther can he shewe his immediate calling from Christ, as all the Apostles could: for seeing he challengeth the Apostolike office by tradition from S. Peter, and not by commandement from Christ; he can in no wise be counted an Apostle, or his office an Apostleship: for the Apostles ordayned onely Euangelists and Pastors, they had not authoritie to consecrate and constitute new A∣postles. Our aduersaries for this their Apostleship, can finde nothing in scrip∣ture, nor for a thousand yeeres after Christ in the ancient writers, Fulk. annot. in Ephes. 4. sect. 4.

6 Concerning the title of vniuersall Bishop, it was thus decreed in the sixt Councel of Carthage, as it is alleadged by Gratian:*Vniuersalis autem nec Ro∣manus pontifex appelletur: No not the Bishop of Rome is to be called vniuersall. Page  134 In Gregorie the first his time, Iohn Patriarke of Constantinople, obtayned of the Emperour Mauritius to be called vniuersall Patriarke: but Gregorie would not agree thereunto, calling him the forerunner of Antichrist, that would challenge so proude a name.

Bellarmine and other of that sect doe answere, that Gregorie found fault with this title,* because Iohn of Constantinople would haue been Bishop alone, and none other to bee beside him, but all other onely to bee his deputies and vicars.

To this wee replie: First, Iohn did onely challenge a superioritie ouer other Bishops, not to be Bishop alone, for this had been a thing impossible. Second∣ly, if Iohn had sought any such thing, it is not like that the Chalcedone Councel and the Emperour would haue yeelded to so vnreasonable a matter as they did. Thirdly, Eulogius Patriarke of Alexandria doth call the sayd Gregorie vniuer∣sall Pope, which name he vtterly refuseth: and yet Eulogius had no such mea∣ning to make him Bishop or Patriarke alone, but onely to giue him a preemi∣nence aboue the rest.* This modest and humble Bishop of Rome Gregorie, in stead of the title, Vniuersall, brought it into the Popes stile to be called Seruus seruorum dei, seruant to Gods seruants: Ergo, wee conclude with Gregorie, that this title. Vniuersall, is an Antichristian name, and that it hath misliked the ancient Bishops of Rome themselues, and how other Patriarkes and Bis∣shops haue challenged that ambitious name and title, as well as the Popes of Rome.

THE SIXT QVESTION, WHETHER THE Pope may erre, or not.

The Papists.

THey denye not but that both the Pope by himselfe, and together with a [error 47] whole Councel, may bee deceiued in matters of fact, that is, in historicall poynts, and the truth of things that are done, because it dependeth of the testi∣monie and information of men: But in matters of faith and doctrine, the Pope determining with the Councel, is not subiect to error: yea, the Pope by him∣selfe alone decreeing any thing concerning faith cannot bee deceiued, Bellar. lib. 4. de pontific. cap. 1. No nor yet in precepts of manners prescribed to the Church by the Pope, is there any feare or daunger of error, cap. 5. Yea, it is pro∣bable (sayth he) that the Pope, not onely as Pope, cannot erre, but not as a pri∣uate person, is it like he should fall into heresie, or hold any obstinate opinion contrarie to the faith? cap. 6.

1 Luke 22.31. Simon, I haue prayed for thee, that thy faith faile not. Christ here prayeth for Peter, and his successors, that they might not at any time erre, or be deceiued in matters of faith, Bellar. cap. 3. Rhem. annot. in Luk. 22. sect. 11.

Page  135We answere: First, this was a particular prayer for Peter, that his fayth should not fayle in that great and dangerous tentation, into the which, our Sa∣uiour foresaw, hee should fall: For if it were to be vnderstood of Peters suc∣cessors, they also must first be sifted by Sathan as Peter was, and deny Christ, and so being conuerted strengthen their brethren: if they will vnderstand one parte of Peters successors, I pray you, why not all? Secondly, Our Sauiour prayeth likewise for all his Apostles, that they might be sanctified in the truth, yea for al, that should beleeue by their preaching: yet is not euery Christian pri∣uiledged from all error of fayth. Thirdly, after this Peter himselfe erred, and was reprehended of Saint Paul. Fulk. annot. in Luk. 22. sect. 11.

2. The high Priests that sate in Moses chayre were priuiledged not to erre. Ergo, much more now are the chiefe pastors of the Church free from error, Bel∣larm. cap. 3. Rhemist. Luk. 22. sect. 11.

We answer: the high Priests had no such priuiledge, for some of them fell into strange errors: Vriah the high Priest set vp an idolatrous altar at the Kinges commaundement, 2. King. 16. Eliashib was ioyned in Affinitie with To∣biah the Ammonite, contrary to the law of God, Fulk. ibid.

The Protestantes.

THat the Popes and Bishops of Rome haue not onely erred in manners, but euen in fayth; and not onely priuately and personally as men, but pulikely and iudicially as Popes; that they haue by their publike and open preaching, defence, allowance, and consent approued and established erronious, and some hereticall opinions: thus we trust to make it playne and euident to all men.

1. Peter erred: Ergo, the Pope may, though he were Peters successor. First, Peter erred in denying of Christ: the Iesuite answereth: First, he began not yet to be the chiefe Bishop, which he entred not into till after the resurrection, when Christ sayd vnto him, Feede my sheepe, Iohn 21. therefore all this while he might erre. A goodly answere: I pray you tell me, was not the Church before Christs passion, and after, built vpon the same rocke? I trow they cannot denie it: but Peter was not the rock before, therefore not after.

If he were therefore called a rock because of his confession of Christ, why should he not then rather, straight after his confession, take possession of his of∣fice, then immediately after his deniall of Christ? Surely this is but a silly shift. Secondly, sayth the Iesuite, Peter fayled in charitie when he denied Christ, not in fayth, cap. 3. and if he fayled in fayth, he lost the confession of fayth, and not fayth it selfe. We answere: First, and can a true fayth then bee separated from loue by your doctrine? The Apostles knew no such fayth: Saint Iames sayth, it is a dead fayth that is without the works of loue, and the fayth of diuels, that is, no faith, Iames 2.17.19. If then Peters loue failed, his fayth also fayled. Secondly, we doe not say that Peters fayth was lost and vtterly extinguished, for Christ prayed for him, but whether it were an error in fayth which Peter fell into: for it Page  136 is not all one to erre in fayth, or cleane to lose fayth. Thirdly, hee lost the con∣fession of fayth, he denied Christ in word, Ergo: he denied the fayth, howsoeuer he thought in heart: for these two are the principall fruites of fayth, to Beleeue with the heart, and Confesse with the mouth, Rom. 10. and where either of these is wanting, there can not be a right fayth: for he that putteth away a good con∣science, maketh shipwrack also of faith, 1. Tim. 1.19. But the Iesuite I see hath a queazie stomack, let him cough vp lustily, and say with one of his fellowes, Petrus non fidem Christi,*sed Christum salua fide negauit. Peter denied not the fayth of Christ, but, his fayth remayning sound and whole, hee onely denied Christ. Loe, here is newe popish diuinitie, that a man may denie Christ, and yet not denie the faith.

Secondly, Peter erred in constraining the Gentiles to doe as the Iewes. Bellarmine saith, it was an error in example & conuersation, not in fayth or do∣ctrine, cap. 7. We answere: First, in this example of Peter there was also inclu∣ded an error in fayth, for how should the Gentiles better know Peters iudge∣ment, then by his example, by the which they fell into an error of fayth, and were constrayned to conforme themselues like to the Iewes: thinking that the Iewish ceremonies were necessary to bee retayned? Secondly, Saint Paul himselfe sayth, they went not the right way to the truth of the Gospell: Ergo, they erred from the trueth of the Gospell, and so in fayth. Thirdly, the diuines of Paris doe attribute to Peter an error in fayth, Fulk. annot. 4. Galat. sect. 9.

2. We can produce many examples of the Popes, which haue erred iudici∣ally, namely, openly haue maintayned errors. To let passe Marcellinus, who sacrificed to Idols, as a slippe of his person, and he afterward repented him of his fall: yet by the way the Iesuite is deceiued, that thinketh it probable, that the Popes particular person cannot fall into heresie: here you see Marcellinus fell into Idolatrie.

Liberius subscribed to the Arrians, consented to the condemnation of A∣thanasius: as testifieth Ierome, confessed by Nicolaus Cusanus, and Alphonsus de castro, both papists, Iuel. pag. 164. defens. Apolog.

Honorius 1. consented to the heresie of Sergius Bishop of Constantinople, who was a Monothelite, and held, that there were not two wills or operati∣ons in Christ,* and so destroyed the two natures. That Honorius was a Mono∣thelite, Melchior Canus a papist confesseth: hee was condemned for an here∣tike in the 6.7. and 8. generall synodes. Bellarmine answereth, that the Coun∣cels are corrupted, or they might be deceiued in iudgement, as in a matter of facte: or that Honorius onely misliked the speech, to say there were two willes in Christ, and not the thing. See what poore shiftes heere bee to make Honorius no heretike, and yet all will not be.

Pope Stephen the sixt tooke vp Formosus body, and cut off two fin∣gers of his right hande, and buried him againe in a lay-mans Sepulchre: Then Page  137 followed Rhomanus the first, Theodorus the second, Iohannes the ninth, and re∣stored Formosus with his decrees, iudging him to bee lawfull Bishop. After them commeth Sergius the third, who tooke vp the body agayne, cutte off the head, and cast it into Tiber. The Iesuite answereth, that Stephanus and Sergius erred onely in a matter of fact. A goodly cloke to couer the filthines of their Ghostly fathers withall.

But by your leaue a little: doe you not holde it to bee an article of fayth to beleeue the Pope to bee heade of Christes Church? Then was it an article of fayth to hold that Formosus was right Pope, for at that time there was no other. Ergo, Stephanus and Sergius erred in fayth, defining the contrary. All that you can say, is this: that it was not yet determined and decreed for an article of fayth, so to beleeue: see I pray you, these mennes fayth is pinned vpon Popes sleeues. Why masters, the rule of fayth is cer∣taine, you cannot make new articles of fayth now, but onely declare and explane those that are. But doe you not thinke that these iollie Popes, that would rake the dead out of their graues, for their holines might deserue at GODS hand, to haue a priuiledge not to erre in fayth?

Siluester the second was a Necromancer and a Coniurer, and therefore fallen from the fayth. Bellarmine sayth: hee was a good man, and all are fa∣bles and lyes that are tolde of him: and because hee was cunning in Geo∣metrie, that ignorant age straightwayes iudged him to bee giuen to Necro∣mancie.

Thus wee may take the Iesuites worde, if wee will. But the storie is re∣ported by authors of better credit then Bellarmine: as Iohannes Stella, Platina, Petrus Premonstratens. Nauclerus, Antoninus. Fox. pag. 167.

Anastasius was a Nestorian heretike, whose heresie was this, that there are, as two natures, so also two persons in Christ, Alphons. de castro. lib. 1. de haeresib. cap. 4.

Celestinus is reported by Laurentius Valla a Canon of Rome, to haue been a Nestorian heretike, de donation. Constantin.

Now commeth in Pope Hildebrand, or rather Heldebrand, for hee was a very brand of hell fire: called Gregory the seuenth: Of whome Benno writeth thus: that hee poysoned sixe Popes his predecessors to make him∣selfe a way to the popedome: that hee was a Coniurer, a raiser of Diuels, and in his rage hee cast the sacrament into the fier. But sayth Harding our countrey man, though vnworthily, Benno was his enemie, and wrote of displeasure: and Bellarmine thinketh that some Lutherane was the author of the booke, which goeth vnder the name of Benno, who was Cardinall in this Hildebrands time. But Benno onely doth not thus report of him: he was openly twise for the same crimes condēned in Councel: first at Wormes: thē after depo∣sed in the Coūcel at Brixia in Italy, & Pope Clement 3. elected to succeed him.* And the said Gregory died in exile, of whom Antonius reporteth, that before his Page  138 death, he repented him of his insolencie shewed toward the Emperour Henrie the 4. whom with his wife and young child bare foote, and bare legd, hee had caused three dayes together, in extreame frost and colde, to waite at his palace gates at Canusium,* before he could speake with him. Yet this Hildebrand for all these insolent, cruell, and dishonest partes, is commended by our papists, Har∣ding, Bellarmine and other, for a deuout Catholike man, who did all things of a zeale to the Church. By this you may iudge, whome our aduersaries count a Catholike man.

Pope Iohn the 22. affirmed, that the soules lie in a traunce till the day of iudgement, and feele neither payne nor ioye. Harding, and likewise Bellar∣mine answere, that this was an error, but no heresie. Yet in the Vniuersitie of Paris, it was condemned for heresie, as Gerson writeth. Againe sayth Harding, he held it only as a priuate opinion. But Massaeus sayth, that Pope Iohn preached this heresie and sent out preachers to maintaine it. Hee was condemned (sayth he) with his error by the diuines of Paris in the presence of Philip the French King, before he was Pope, when he was yet but a priuate Doctor. But the con∣trary is proued by B. Iewel, that he was Pope 13. yeares before Philip was king, Iuell. defens. apolog. p. 667.

Pope Iohn the 23. denied the life to come, and the resurrection of the body: And this heresie was openly obiected against him in the Councel of Constance. Bellarmine and Harding before him, answere, that he was not the rightful Pope, for there were three at that time, and therefore might erre. But Platina sayth, that he was chosen at Bonoma, by the consent of all the Cardinals, ex Iuel. pag. 671.

Lastly, Pope Eugenius the 4. was condemned and deposed as an heretike in the Councel of Basile. Where the Iesuite hath no other answer, then by con∣demning the Councel as Schismatical, to acquite the Pope, Lib. 3. de pontif. cap. 14.

By these examples it may appeare to the indifferent reader, that it is no rare nor impossible thing, for the Popes of Rome to erre, yea become playne heretikes: And as for that shift of the Iesuite, that they are no longer Popes, whē they openly begin to teach heresie, this is, as Alphonsus sayth, In re seria verbis velle iocari,* to dallie with words in a serious and earnest matter. And so euery Bishop shal be as well priuiledged as the Pope, and cannot fall into heresie: for why may we not say that a Bishop, when he is knowen to bee an heretike, ceaseth to bee Bishop any longer, as the Pope is no longer Pope, and so as long as he remayneth Bishop, cannot possiblie bee an heretike? Surely this is but paltrie and beggarly stuffe.

*4. Augustine is not a whit afrayd to say, Episcoporum literas per sermonem sapientiorem cuiuslibet in eare peritioris, & per aliorum episcoporum grauiorem au∣thoritatem, & per concilia licere reprehendi, si in eis à veritate deuiatum sit. That the decrees of all Bishops whatsoeuer (not excluding Popes) may be corrected either by the sentence of wiser men in that poynt, wherein they erred, or by the Page  139 better aduised sentence of other Bishops, or by Councels may be reuersed, where they doe erre. Ergo, it is possible for Popes, by his iudgement, to erre.

A PART OR APPENDIX OF THIS QVE∣stion, whether the Church of Rome may erre or not.
The Papists.

THey doe not onely affirme that the Pope cannot erre, but that the Church [error 48] of Rome also cānot be deceiued in matters of faith, so long as the Apostolike See remayneth there, which they say is like there to remaine to the ende of the world. Bellarm. lib. 3. de pontif. cap. 4. Hereupon Panormitane doubteth not to say, that he would preferre the iudgement of the Cardinals of Rome, before the iudgement of the whole world: this he sayd, standing vp in the Councel of Ba∣sile, Fox. pag. 669. ex Aenea Syluio.

1. The Rhemists vpon those words of Saint Paul, Rom. 1.5. your fayth is published through the whole world, doe thus inferre: See (say they) the great prouidence of God in the preseruation of the Romane common faith. In times past the Romane fayth and Catholike all one: Ergo, that See cannot erre in faith.

We answere: they must proue their Romish faith and popish religion, to be the same which was praysed and commended by the Apostle, or els they gayne nothing: but that shall they neuer doe.

2. So long as the Apostolike See remayneth at Rome, it shall be preserued from error, but that is like there to remaine till the worlds end: for it onely re∣mayneth, when all other Apostolique Sees are gone: and it is very probable, that if this See could haue been ouerthrowen, it should haue been done by the incursion and inuasion of the Gothes, Vandals, Turkes, the emulation of Princes, diuisions and schismes of Popes themselues: yet for all this it standeth still, and hath so continued almost 1600. yeres, and shall so continue still. Ergo, the Ro∣mane Church can not erre. Bellarmin. lib. 2. cap. 4. Rhemist. annot. in Thessal. 2. sect. 7.

We answere: First, it is a great vntruth, that all other Apostolike Sees are gone, for there is a succession at Antioch, Alexandria, Constantinople, Ephesus, euen at this day. Secondly, it is false, that the See of Rome hath continued in that re∣ligion it now professeth, which indeed is no religion, but superstition and here∣sie, these 1600. yeres: for first till Gregories time, which was 600. yeeres after Christ, none of the popes would be called vniuersall Bishops: and it was more then 300. yeeres, from Gregorie the 1. to Siluester the 2. when sathan is thought fully to be let loose: for he by the diuel was aduanced to the papacie: All these yeeres therefore you must strike off in your account. Thirdly, that the See of Rome, which is the seate of Antichrist, hath continued many yeeres we graunt: Page  140 for it is the iust iudgement of God vpon the world, because they loued not the trueth, that they should be deluded a long time, and deceiued by Antichrist, and beleeue lies: so did Saint Paul prophesie, 2. Thessalonians 2.10, 11. And wee grant also that that Antichristian See shall in some sorte remayne till the comming of Christ, whom hee shall destroie with the brightnes of his appearing, as Saint Paul sayth. You haue gayned therefore nothing by this, but that Rome is the seate of Antichrist, Fulk. annotat. in 2. Thessalonians 2. sect. 7.

The Prot••tants.

IT is euident and plaine, and neede not much proofe, that the Romane Church, as also any particular visible Church, maie not onely erre in faith, but fall cleane away into heresie and Idolatrie, as we see it come to passe in the Church of Rome.

1. The Church of Rome hath no better assurance of their continuance, then the Church of the Iewes had before Christ, no nor yet so great, for they were a peculiar and chosen nation. But Iudah fell and transgressed, and com∣mitted Idolatrie in the raigne of Ahaz, and therefore the Prophet Esay com∣playneth and sayth, From the sole of the foote to the head, there is nothing sound, cap. 1. ver. 6.

Neither are they better then the Church of Ephesus was in Saint Iohns time, who was as able (I think) to keepe that Church from error, as the Pope is to keepe Rome: yet the Lord threatneth to remoue his candlestick frō amongst them, vnles they did amend, Reue. 2.5. Ergo, the Church of Rome may erre.

2. The Pope may erre, as we haue before shewed, Ergo the Church of Rome: for the Apostolike See, as they say, is the cause that no error can approch or come neere them. Therefore (me thinketh) the Iesuite committeth a foule absur∣ditie, in saying, the Church of Rome cannot so much as erre personally, and yet they grant that the Pope may erre personally. So by this reason the body shuld haue a greater priuiledge then the head: the Church of Rome should bee freer from error then the Pope, who should preserue it from error: this sure is a great absurditie in Popish diuinitie, Bellarmin. cap. 4.

3. It is confessed by our aduersaries themselues, that the Church of Rome may erre: as the Councel at Rome vnder Adriane the second erred, sayth the Iesuite, in determining Honorius to bee an heretick, one of his predecessors. cap. 11.

The Councel of the Italian Bishops at Brixia erred in condemning Grego∣ry the seuenth, who was, if you will beleeue Harding, a vertuous and an holy man. Nay Paulus Iouius a popish Bishop confesseth, that Adrianus 6. was made Pope, mira & pudenda Senatorum factiosorum suffragatione, through the strange and shamefull suffrages of factious Cardinals,* because they preferred a stranger before their owne order.

Page  141But our aduersaries haue a trick, to shift off all this that hath been saide: They erred in a matter of fact, not in any poynt of fayth. Yet they cannot so closely conuey the matter away: for Panormitane euen in such questions also preferreth the iudgement of the Cardinals before the whole world, speaking in the defence of Eugenius, who was challenged in the Councel of Basile, for the dissolution of the Councel, which he did (saith Panormitane) with the ad∣uice of the Cardinals: whose iudgement he so much esteemeth in this matter, which concerned not faith, namely, for the dissoluing of the Councel.*

THE SEVENTH QVESTION OF THE spirituall iurisdiction and power of the Bishop of Rome.

THis question hath two partes: the first, whether the Bishop of Rome haue a coactiue and constrayning power to make lawes to binde the con∣science, and to punish the transgressors. Secondly, whether other Pastors and Bishops haue their iurisdiction immediatly from God, or from the Pope.

Other questions also there are, which belong to this matter, as whether the Pope be the chiefe iudge in controuersies of fayth, which we haue alrea∣dy handled, entreating of the perfection and authority of the scriptures: as also whether it be in the Pope to summone, dissolue, and confirme Councels, which hath been sufficiently declared before, in the controuersie concerning Councels. Concerning other questions, as the canonizing of Saints, which they say appertaineth to the Pope, the election and confirmation of Bishops, pardons and indulgences, we shall haue fitter occasion to deale in them, in their seuerall places and controuersies. At this time wee purpose onely to touch these two poynts aforesaide, of the Popes Ecclesiasticall iuris∣diction.

THE FIRST PART, WHETHER THE POPE may make lawes to binde the conscience, and punish the transgressors thereof iudicially.
The Papists.

THat the Pope hath such authorie, to make lawes for the whole Church, [error 49] which shall binde vnder paine of damnation, as well as the lawes of God, it is the general opinion of the papists, Fox. 981. articul. 13. & p. 1101. artic. cont. Lambert. 29. But they put in this clause, So they bee not vniust lawes nor Page  142 contrarie to the diuine law, Bellarm. cap. 15. And yet they say that the Pope may make lawes, hauing not the authority nor warrant of scripture, neither is it necessarie for these lawes to be expressed or diduced out of scripture. And these lawes are not onely of externall rites and orders of the Church, but euen of things necessary to saluation, Bellarm. cap 15. in reprehens. Caluini. Yea he ad∣deth further, that in matters not necessary to saluation, he can not be disobeyed without deadly sinne, and offence of conscience, cap. 16. loc. 1. Bulla Leonis 10. aduersus Lutherum, Fox. p. 1283. col. 1.

1. The Apostles prescribed a law concerning the abstaining from blood, things strangled, and offered to Idols, concerning the which, Christ gaue them no precept: But this law did binde the people in conscience: for euery where the Apostles gaue straight charge, for the keeping of the decrees, Bellarm.

Answere: First, the Apostles commaunded no newe thing, but the same which they themselues were taught of Christ, that they should take heede of offence: the Christians therefore were not bound in conscience any further to keepe the decrees concerning such things, then for auoyding of scandal and of∣fence. Secondly, for afterward the offence being taken away, the law also cea∣sed: and Saint Paul giueth libertie, notwithstanding this law, to eate things of∣fered to Idols, if it might be done without offence, Asking no question (sayth he) for conscience sake, 1. Cor. 10.27. Ergo their consciences were not hereby obliged and bound.

3. It is necessary to haue some lawes, beside the diuine law, for the gouern∣ment of the Church: for the word of God is too vniuersal, neither is sufficient to direct euery particular action: therefore other ecclesiasticall lawes must bee added, but euery good and necessary law hath a coactiue and constraining po∣wer, and bindeth the conscience to obedience: Ergo the constitutions of the Popes and Councels, which are the only ecclesiastical lawes, doe binde the con∣science, Bellarmin. cap. 16. lib. 4.

Answere: First, the word of God contayneth all necessarie rules to salua∣tion: wherefore all lawes of the Church concerning matters of faith, are but explanations, and interpretations of the rules of fayth set forth in scripture, if they be godly lawes, and so are not the lawes of men but of God, and doe bind the conscience to the obseruation thereof: as the lawes of the Church, which command Christians to resort to the congregation to heare Gods word, and re∣uerently to receiue the sacraments, are the very ordinances and commaunde∣ments of Christ, who enioyned his Apostles to preach, and baptize, and his faythfull people to heare and to be baptized, and therefore in conscience wee are bound to the obedience hereof. Secondly, there are other ecclesiasticall lawes appoynted for the publique order of the Church, concerning externall rites and circumstances of persons and place, as the houres of prayer, the forme of the leturgie & publike seruice, the times fittest for the celebration of the sacraments, and such like. These and such like constitutions do not binde in conscience absolutely, in respect of the things themselues, which are indifferent, Page  143 but in regarde of that contempt, and offence which might followe in the not keeping of them: contempt to our superiors, whome wee ought in all lawfull things to obey; offence, in grieuing the conscience of our weake brethren. So that euen these constitutions also which are made according to the rules of the Gospell, that is, vnto edification, to the glorie of God, and for auoyding of of∣fence, doe necessarilie binde vs in conscience, not conscience of the thinges themselues, which are but externall, but conscience of obedience to our Chri∣stian Magistrates, and conscience in taking heede of all iust offence, sic. Caluin. Institut. lib. 4. cap. 10.11.

3 But we are not, God be thanked, driuen to any such straight, that if there be neede of any such Ecclesiasticall lawes, we should run for succor to the Popes beggerly decretals. (And yet such Canons, as were in force amongst them, a∣greeable to the rules of the Gospell, we doe not refuse.) But if there bee want and penurie of good lawes, euery Church hath as full authoritie, to make decrees and ordinances for the peace and order, and quiet gouernement thereof, not as the Pope of Rome hath ouer the vniuersall Church (for that by right is none, or if it be, it is but an vsurped power) but as the Bishop of Rome hath in his owne Bishopricke and dioces.

The Protestants.

WHat our sentence is of this matter, it doth partlie appeare by that which wee haue alreadie saide: that the Pope hath no power ouer the whole Church, and therefore can make no lawes to binde the conscience or other∣wise for the same, for it belongeth not to his charge. Secondly, we say, that nei∣ther he, nor any ecclesiasticall gouernement beside, can make lawes of things necessarie to saluation, other then those which are in Scripture conteined. Thirdly, all Ecclesiasticall lawes made concerning externall rites, and pub∣like order, doe not otherwise binde the conscience, then in regarde of our obe∣dience due to Christian Magistrates in lawfull things, and for auoyding of scan∣dall and offence: But in respect of the things commaunded, such lawes doe not binde. Caluin. loc. praedicto.

1 Saint Iames saith, there is one lawe-giuer which is able to saue and to de∣stroy, cap. 4.12. He therefore onely maketh lawes to binde the conscience, that is able to saue and to destroy: but that cannot the Pope doe. Ergo, Caluin. argum.

Bellarmine answereth, that the lawes of men doe binde vnder paine of dam∣nation, in as much as God is offended and displeased with their disobedience, and so iudgeth them worthie of punishment. cap. 20. All this wee graunt, that the lawes of men being good lawes, doe binde in conscience in respect of the contempt and disobedience to higher powers, but not in respect of the thinges commaunded, which in their nature are indifferēt. The Iesuite should haue said: Page  144 that God is offended not onely for their disobedience, but simplie for not do∣ing the things commaunded, which he durst not say: As when the Magistrate for some profitable and politike end commaundeth vpon some dayes absti∣nence from flesh, it is not the eating or not eating of flesh, that simplie displea∣seth and offendeth God, but the contempt of the lawe, and wilfull and obstinate disobedience to the magistrate: for otherwise the vse of the creature is free and indifferent.

*2 Wee will beate the Iesuite with his owne staffe: hee saith not that all lawes doe binde the conscience, but onely iust lawes, in the which fower cōditi∣ons are required. First, that they be made for some profitable end: so are not po∣pish lawes which nourish superstition, and haue no edifying, and some of them doe commaund plaine idolatry, & open impietie, as the worshipping of images, the adoration of the Masse, & such like. Secondly, saith he, they must not be con∣trarie to Gods law, but such are many of their ordinances, yea the most of them. Thirdly, they must be made by him that hath authoritie: therefore none of the Popes lawes binde the vniuersall Church, for it is not subiect to him. Fourthly, the forme and manner of imposing such lawes must be orderly: but their lawes are most disordered, imposed vpon the Church violently, without their consent, or any good proceeding. Thus, you see, euen by their owne confession, their lawes cannot binde.

One thing more I must needes tell them of. If they would needes haue their lawes to binde men in conscience, they should haue made fewer of them: now they are so many, that if the breach of them were an offence of conscience, doe men, what they could, they should dailie make shipwrack of their consci∣ence. It is a true saying that is reported of one Thomas Arthur, a good Chri∣stian, it is an homely speech, because the matter was somewhat homely, yet hee did hit the marke. Like as (saith he) crosses were set vp against the walles of London, that no man should pisse there; and while there were but a few, men for reuerence of the crosses, would not pisse against the wall: but when in e∣uery corner they set vp crosses, men of necessitie were faine to pisse vpon the wall and crosses too. So saith he, if there had been fewer lawes of the Church, they would haue been better kept:* but now they are so manie, that men cannot chose but breake them.

3 The Pope hath no power to correct the transgressors of his lawes ouer the whole Church. Ergo, hee cannot make lawes to binde the whole Church. The argument followeth, for hee that hath absolute power to make lawes, hath also power to commaunde obedience to the lawes so made.

The first is thus proued: the Pope indeede hath taken vppon him many times to thunder out his excommunication against other Churches: but it was an vsurped and tyrannicall power, and many times resisted, and controuled.

Pope Victor Anno 200. would haue excommunicate the East Chur∣ches about the keeping of Easter,* but hee was stayed by Irenaeus. The Page  145 Councell of Constance did sende out excommunications against Pope Benedict. sess. 36.

In the Councell of Basile, Pope Eugenius cited Cardinall Iuliane, with the rest of the fathers there assembled to come to Bononia, vnder great penaltie: they likewise cited Eugenius vnder the like penaltie, either to come or send to Basile. Fox. pag. 668.

Pope Leo the tenth, in his fumish Antichristian Bull, excommunicated and condemned Luther. Luther with better right pronounceth sentence of excom∣munication against him, being an aduersarie to Christ, in these words:

accor∣ding to the power and might, that the spirit of Christ, and efficacie of our faith can doe in these our writings, if you shall persist still in your furie, we condemne you together with this Bull and all the decretall, and giue you to sathan to the destruction of the flesh, that your spirit in the day of the Lord may be deliuered: in the name, which you persecute, of Iesus Christ our Lorde.
Fox. page 1286.

Thus you see what small force there is of these popish leaden Bulls, and pre∣sumptuous excommunications: for it falleth out iustlie by them,* as the wise man saith. As the Sparrow and the Swallowe by flying escape, so the curse causelesse shall not come. Now seeing therefore the Pope fayleth of power and strength to see his lawes executed in the vniuersall Church, it cannot bee that his lawes should vniuersally binde.

Lastly, let Augustine speake: he thus defineth sinne, peccatum est dictum,*fac∣tum, vel concupitum contra legem aeternam Dei, sinne is any thing done, saide, or coueted against the Lawe of GOD: therefore the transgression simplie of the lawe of man is not sinne; but as thereby also the Lawe of God is transgressed: Ergo simplie it bindeth not the conscience: for sinne onely bindeth and toucheth the conscience.

THE SECOND PART OF THIS QVE∣stion, whether all Bishops doe receiue their Ec∣clesiasticall iurisdiction from the Pope.
The Papists.

THey denie not but that the power of order, as they call it, which consi∣steth [error 50] in the administration of the Sacraments, is equallie distributed to all Bishops, and that they, as well as the Pope doe receiue it immediatly by their consecration, of God, but the power both of externall iurisdiction, which stan∣deth vpon Ecclesiasticall censures, constitutions and decrees, and internall iu∣risdiction, which is exercised in binding and loosing, is deriued, say they, from the Pope to all other Bishops.

1 God tooke of the spirite that was in Moses, and distributed it among the seuentie Elders,* that were chosen to beare the burthen of gouernement Page  146 with Moses and to bee his helpers: the Lorde tooke of his spirite, not by dimini∣shing it, but by deriuing of his vertue to the rest: but the Pope is now in the roome and place of Moses in the Church: Ergo, from him to the rest is this an authoritie deriued.

Answer: First, Moses example was extraordinarie, he was a figure of Christ, not of the Pope, Deuteron. 18. vers. 15. The Pope might with better right stand vpon Aarons example, who was high Priest, not lay claime to Moses office, who was the Prince and Captaine of the people: for the Pope, I trow, would be chiefe Bishop, and not Emperor too. Secondly, the meaning is not that God deriued Moses spirit to the rest: but bestowed the like gift of prophesying vpon them, as Moses had: surely neuer any mortall man had the spirite in such aboundance, that it could bee deuided into seuentie portions, and one Prophet to make many. The like phrase is vsed, 2. King. 2.15. Where the Prophets saide, that the spirit of Eliah did rest on Elisha, that is, God endued him with an excellent spi∣rit of prophesying, as Elias had. If they will vnderstand this place also of deri∣uing of spirits, how then shall that be taken in the 9. verse where Elisha praieth, that this spirit might be doubled vpon him? If his spirit were deriued from Eliah, how could it be doubled vpon him? How could it be multiplied and increased? how could he haue more then was in the fountaine or originall, seeing he recei∣ued all from thence?

3 What maketh this place, I pray you, for the power of externall iurisdic∣tion? Here it is saide that God gaue of his spirit to seauentie Elders and rulers of the people, and enabled them for their office; endued them with wisdome, and knowledge, and dexteritie in iudging of the people: this maketh nothing for their purpose, vnlesse they will also say, that there is a secret influence of know∣ledge and wisdome deriued from the Pope to all other Bishops, whereby they are made able to execute their office: but (I trow) they will not say so: for Al∣phonsus de castro, truly saith of the Popes of Rome, constat plures eorum adeo esse illiteratos, vt grammaticam penitus ignorent: it is certaine that many of them were so vnlearned, that they hard and scant knew their grammar.

4 The argument followeth not from one particular countrie, as this was of the Iewes, to the vniuersal Church: that because the seauentie Elders receiued iurisdiction from Moses (yet that cannot be proued out of this place, for they were rulers before, and commaunders of the people, the were now but inward∣ly furnished, and further enabled) yet it were no good reason, that therefore the Ecclesiasticall Ministers ouer the whole Church, should receiue their power from one.

5 Neither doth it follow, that because the Prince and ciuill Magistrate may bestowe ciuil offices, create Dukes, Earles, Lords, constitute Iudges, Deputies, Lieutenants, by his sole authoritie, that by the same reason Ecclesiasticall mini∣sters should receiue their power & office from their superiors: for although, the Church from ancient time, hath thought it good, to make some inequalitie and difference in Ecclesiasticall offices for the peace of the Church: yet the superiors Page  147 haue not such a soueraigntie and commaunding power ouer the rest, as the Prince hath ouer his subiects.

The Protestants.

THat Bishops haue not their Ecclesiastical iurisdiction from Rome, but do as well enioye it by right of their consecration, election, institution, in their owne precinctes, circuites, prouinces, cities, townes, yea, as the Pope doth in his Bishopricke, and by much better right, if they be good Bishops, and louers of the truth: thus briefely it is proued.

1 The Apostles had not their iurisdiction from Peter, but all receiued it indifferently from Christ: this the Iesuite doth not barely acknowledge, but proueth it by argument,. against the iudgement of other Papists. cap. 23. Ergo neither Bishops are authorised from the Pope, though he were Peters successor: for if he were (to graunt it for disputation sake) he is no more to the Bishops of the Church, then Peter was to the Apostles. If hee gaue not the keyes to the Apostles; neither doth the Pope Saint Peters successor, to the Bishops, the Apo∣stles successors: for they may with as great right challenge to bee the Apostles successors, as he can to be Saint Peters.

Nay, the Apostles gaue no power or iurisdiction to the Elders and pastors, whom they ordained: Act. 20.28. Take heede to the flocke, ouer the which the holy Ghost hath made you Bishops or ouerseers: and Ephes. 4.11. Hee hath giuen some to bee Apostles, some Prophets, some pastors and teachers: so then the pastors and teachers, though ordained by the Apostles, yet had their calling and office frō God and not from the Apostles, much lesse now can they receiue their power from any, no not from the Pope, for he is no Apostle, no nor Apostolike man, hauing left the Apostolike faith.

2 Augustine saith, Solus Christus habet authoritatem, & praeponendi nos in ecclesiae suae gubernatione, & de actu nostro iudicandi. de baptis. 2.2. Onely Christ hath authoritie (saith hee) to preferre vs to the gouernement of the Church, and to iudge of our dooings: the pastors then of the Church haue the keyes of the spirituall regiment from Christ himselfe, not from the Pope, or any other.

THE EIGHT QVESTION, OF THE temporall iurisdiction and power of the Bishop of Rome.

THis question hath two partes: first, whether the Pope in respect of any spi∣rituall [error 51] iurisdiction, haue also the chiefe soueraigntie in temporall and ciuill matters, and so to be aboue Kings and Emperors: secondly, whether the Pope, or any Bishop, may be the chiefe Lord and prince ouer any Countrie, Citie, or Prouince.

Page  148
THE FIRST PART, WHETHER THE Pope directly or indirectly haue authoritie aboue Kinges and Princes.
The Papists.

THe Papists of former times were not ashamed to say, that the Pope is the Lord of the whole Church: as Panormitane in the Councell of Basile, Fox. page 670. Yea, Pope Innocentius the third said, writing to the Emperor of Con∣stantinople, that as the Moone receiued her light from the Sunne, so the imperi∣all dignitie did spring from the Pope: and that the papall dignitie was seuen and fortie times greater then the imperiall:* yea Kinges and Emperors are more inferior to the Pope then lead is to golde, Gelasius distinct. 96. But our la∣ter papists ashamed of their forefathers arrogancie, in wordes seeme to abate somewhat of their proud sentence, but in effect say the same thing: For they confesse that the Emperor hath his office and calling of God, and not from the Pope: neither that the Pope directly hath any temporall iurisdiction: but indirectly hee may depose Kinges and princes, abrogate the lawes of Emperors, and establish his owne: he may take vnto himselfe the iudgement of temporall causes, and cite Kings to appeare before him: yet not directlie (saith the Iesuite) as hee is ordinarie Iudge ouer the Bishops and whole Cler∣gie, yet indirectlie, as hee is the chiefe spirituall Prince, hee may doe all this, if hee see it necessarie for the health of mens soules. And so in effect, by their popish indirect meanes, they giue him as great authoritie, as euer hee vsurped or challenged, Bellarmine lib. 5. cap. 6.

1 The Ecclesiasticall and ciuill power doe make but one bodie and so∣cietie, as the spirite and the flesh in man: Now the Ecclesiastical power, which is as the soule and spirite, is the chiefe part, because it is referred to a more prin∣cipall end, namely the safetie and good of the soule: the other is as the flesh to the spirite, and respecteth but a temporall end, as the outward peace and pro∣speritie of the common-wealth: Ergo, the spirituall power is chiefe, and may commaund the other. Bellarm. cap. 7.

Ans. First, it is a very vnfit and vnproper similitude, to compare these two regiments to the soule and the bodie: for by this meanes, as the spirite giueth life to the bodie, and euery parte thereof, so the ciuill and temporall state should receiue their office and calling from the Ecclesiasticall, which the Ie∣suite himselfe denieth, and so directly the one should rule the other: for the soule directly I trow, not indirectly moueth the body and gouerneth it. But if wee will speake as the Scripture doth, we make all but one bodie: and it is the spirit of Christ, who is the head, that giueth effectuall power to euery parte. Ephes. 4.15.16.

2 It is false that the ciuill magistracie onely concerneth the outward and Page  149 temporall commoditie onely: for vnto Princes also is committed the chiefe care of religion and the worship of God: They are to see true religion ad∣uaunced, yea to watch ouer Ecclesiasticall ministers, and to charge them to looke to their offices: the Prince is Gods minister, for the wealth both of the soules and bodies of his subiects: And therefore Saint Paul exhorteth to pray for Kings and gouernours, that wee may liue (not onely) a peaceable life, but in all godlines and honestie, 1. Timoth. 2.2. Ergo, it is parte of the magistrates office, as to procure the peace of the people, so to haue a care of their godlie life. Wherefore it is false, as the Iesuite supposeth, that the chiefe ende of the ciuill gouernement, is onely outward and temporall: Ergo, his argument is nothing worth.

2 Azariah the high Priest droue Vzziah the King out of the temple, when hee would haue burned incense, and caused him to goe out of the citie and dwell apart, 2. Chron. 26. Iehoiada likewise deposed Athalia, 2. King. 11. Ergo, the Pope may depose wicked and vngodly Princes. Bellarmine cap. 8.

Answere: First, wee denie, that there is now, or ought to bee any such high Priest in the Church of God, to haue the chiefe authoritie in spirituall matters, as there was in the lawe: for hee was the type and figure of Christ, who is our high Priest, and chiefe Bishop. Secondly, these examples doe not excuse the Popes tyrannie, who hath deposed rightfull Kinges and Em∣perors, and better then himselfe: as Pope Zacharie deposed Childericus the French King, and set vp Pipinus: Gregorie the seuenth set vp Rodolphus a∣gainst Henricus the fourth, the Emperor. Pope Paschalis set vp the sonne of the saide Henricus against his father. But we will answere more particularly to these examples.

To the first: First, it was not the sole act of Azariah the high Priest, but there were 80. Priests that ioyned with him beside, and they all spake to the King: this example therefore maketh nothing for the sole authoritie of the Pope, who saith, that he may depose the Emperor himselfe, without any Councell. Innocent. 4. Secondly, they did not depose Vzziah: they onely withstoode him according to the lawe of God, because hee vsurped the priests office: so ought faithfull Bishops and pastors euen to reproue the greatest Magistrates, for the manifest contempt, and open breach of Gods lawe: Neither did they constraine the King to goe forth, before they saw the iudgement of God vpon him: for the text saith, they compelled him to go forth, because the Lord had smitten him, they saw the leprosie to rise vp in his face, vers. 20. This there∣fore was the extraordinarie iudgement of God, and not of the high priest. Third∣ly, he was not deposed from the Kingdome, though he dwelt alone: his son did execute the office only for him, and raigned after him: for being a leper, by the law he was to dwell apart, Leuit. 13.46. Here was nothing done (we see) by the sole authoritie of the high Priest, but they had the manifest and direct lawe of God, vnto the which their Kings also were subiect.

Page  150To the second example, we answere. First, Athaliah was a tyrant and an v∣surper, and ought not to raigne, and therefore was iustly deposed. Secondly, Iehoiada did it not by his owne power, but assembled the Fathers and Princes of the land, 2. Chron. 22.2. He shewed them the young King, and they made a couenant with him. Iehoiada onely gaue directions, (the King being now knowen vnto them) vnto the Captaines and gouernours. Thirdly, they had the flat word of God for that action, The Kings sonne must raigne, as the Lord hath saide, concerning the sonnes of Dauid, ver. 3. So when the Pope hath any such warrant from God, he may doe as Iehoiada did.

The Protestants.

THat the Pope or any other person Ecclesiasticall hath no manner of tem∣porall iurisdiction either directly or indirectly ouer Kings, Princes, Empe∣rors, but ought of right to bee subiect to them and their lawes: it is thus proued.

1 By the same reason whereby the Iesuite proueth, that the Pope directlie hath no temporall iurisdiction, we will conclude, that neither indirectlie can he haue any, and so none at all. Christ, while he liued vpon earth, tooke vp∣on him no temporall iurisdiction, either directly or indirectly: he refused to bee a King, Iohn 6. Nay hee would not bee a Iudge in ciuill matters, as in de∣uiding the inheritance, being thereto required, Luke 12.13. Hee payed poll money, Matth. 17. hee did submit himselfe to the iudgement of Pilate an heathen Iudge: therefore seeing Christe vsed no such temporall iurisdiction, neither can any Minister of Christe: for the seruant is not aboue the Master: Onely Antichrist dare presume beyond the example of Christ.

*2 The Fathers of Basile doe vrge that place of Saint Peter 1. Epist. 5.2. against Panormitane, who had vnaduisedly sayd, that the Pope was Lorde of the Church. But the Apostle saith, Feede the flocke of Christ, not by constraint, but willinglie, not as Lordes ouer the Lordes inheritance, verse 3. But the Pope contrariwise vseth all forceable, constraining, and tyrannicall meanes, killing, slaying, imprisoning, deposing those that will not obey him:* who calleth himselfe chiefe Lorde and Magistrate of the whole Worlde. Surely this is Antichrist, and not the Minister of Christ, or successor of Saint Peter, whose counsaile he refuseth to followe and obey.

3 Let but the stories of former times bee searched: there wee shall finde how wickedly and insolently the Popes behaued themselues towards Kings, and Emperors: Pope Alexander caused Henry the second to doe pe∣nance for Beckets death, and to bee displed of the Monkes. Innocent the third caused King Iohn to kisse the feet of the Bishop of Canturburie his own subiect. Alexander the third did tread vpon Emperor Frederick his neck. Pope Inno∣cent spoyled Frederick the second of his Empire, caused him to bee poysoned, Page  151 and his sonne Conradus to be beheaded: and these Emperors were deposed by the Popes in order,*Henricus 4. Henricus 5. Frederick 1. Philippus Otho the 4. Frederick 2. and Conradus his sonne.

It is not good, they say, to put a sword into a mad mans hand: and thinke you not, that these Popes vsed the temporal sword very discreetely, which they thus vsurped, making fooles and slaues of Emperors, as Pope Adriane did, that rebuked Frederick the first, because he held his stirrup on the wrong side, and did excommunicate him, for setting his name before the Popes in writing? Th very insolent, diuellish, and Antichristian practise of this their temporal power, sheweth from what originall it commeth, euen from the father of pride.

Lastly, Augustine saith, writing vpon those words, Rom. 13. Let euery soule be subiect to the higher powers: Si quis putat, quia Christanus est, non sibi esse vectigal reddendum aut tributum, aut non esse exhibendum honorem debitum, eis, qui haec curant potestatibus; in magno errore est. If any man thinke, because he is a Christian, that he is not bound to pay tribute and taxe, and yeelde due honor to the temporall powers (for of such Augustine speaketh) he is in a great error. If all then are subiect to the temporal magistrate, that are Christians, then all Bi∣shops and Ecclesiastical persons, yea the Pope himselfe, if he be a Christian. Er∣go, the Emperor is not subiect to him.

THE SECOND PART OF THE QVESTION, concerning Saint Peters patrimonie, whether the Pope may be a temporall Prince.
The Papists.

THey say that it is not against the word of God, that the Pope should bee [error 52] both a temporall and Ecclesiasticall Prince,* and that both the swordes of spirituall and Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction doe belong vnto him: and that hee is the right heire of Saint Peters patrimonie: to him belongeth as chiefe Lorde the Imperiall citie of Rome, the pallace of Laterane,*Capua also and Apulia are his. distinct. 96. Constantin.

1 Moses (saith the Iesuite) was both priest, and Prince: so was Heli 1. Sam. 4. He iudged Israel fortie yeeres: so were also the Macchabees, Iudas, Ionathan, Simon: yea Melchisedech long before Moses, was Priest and King: Ergo the Pope is lawfullie both chiefe Bishop, and chiefe Prince also, and Lord of that which he now possesseth. Bellarmine cap. 9.

Ans. Concerning Melchisedech. Who knoweth not, that hee being King and Priest, was a liuelie figure of our Sauior Christs spirituall Kingdome and Priesthoode? Heb. 7. And as yet the offices of the spirituall and temporall go∣uernement were not distinguished: for all the Patriarkes, Abraham, Isaack, Ia∣cob, & the rest were sacrificers, therefore wee cannot borrow any examples from them for this matter.

Page  152Moses also did offer sacrifice to God, and was chiefe iudge both in spiritu∣all and temporall affaires vnto the people, vntill such time, as when by Gods commaundement,*Aaron was chosen to the priesthood, vnto whome the charge of sacrifices and vnto his sonnes was committed: so Moses remained still Prince of the people, whom Iosua succeeded, and Aaron was inuested to the priesthoode, and so the offices were distinct: this example therefore of Mo∣ses is extraordinarie, and proueth not.

Concerning the time when Ely iudged Israel, which was in the dayes of the iudges, we must vnderstand, that the gouernement of Israel was very disso∣lute, and men were left to themselues to doe almost what themselues listed: as Iud. 17. we reade that Micah set vp an Idoll in his house, and the reason is rendered, there was no King in Israel, but euery man did that which seemed good in his owne eyes. Likewise the tribe of Dan offered violence to Micah, and robbed him, Iud. 18. For there was no King in Israel, vers. 1. The Leuites wife was most shamefully abused by the Gibeonites, for there was no King, chap. 19.1. The men of Beniamin tooke them wiues by force: for they had no King, chap. 21.25. So you see that both religion was corrupted, and the ma∣ners of the people grew to be outragious; and all because there was no per∣fect distinct gouernement, there was no King in Israel.

In Elie his time, the word of God was precious, 1. Sam. 3.1. Great was the ignorance of the whole land: the licentiousnesse also of his sonnes was a great offence to all Israel, and brought a great decay of godlines with it, 1. Sam. 2.17.23. Yea they caused the people through their euill example to sinne, verse. 24. Wherefore Elie his house was iudged of GOD for his remisnes in gouerne∣ment, in not correcting his sonnes, chapter 3.13. And hee that cannot rule his owne house, how should hee care for the Church, 1. Timoth. 3.5? It cannot now bee proued by the example of Elie, that the ciuill gouernement was annexed to the priesthoode by the Lordes appoyntment: but it is ra∣ther to bee ascribed to the corruption of those times: for hauing no King nor Captaine ouer them, they were driuen of necessitie to come to the high Priest, vnto whome the iudgement of many matters was committed by the lawe of God, Deuter. 17.8. Leuit. 13.2. But the priesthood, and the ciuill magistracie were two distinct things alwaies from the time of the lawe established.

It is then no good argument, which is drawne from the practise and example of those corrupt times: And yet wee say not, that these offices were so distinct, but that the Lorde might rayse vp some extraordina∣rie prophet, as hee did Samuel, who to restore iustice and religion decay∣ed, might for a time both iudge the people and offer sacrifice, as wee see hee did.

As for the examples of the Maccabees, they moue vs not, you must bring better scripture for your purpose: the authoritie of those bookes binde vs not: and againe we see they did contrarie to the lawe, in taking vppon them both Page  153 offices: for the priesthood was annexed to the posteritie of Aaron for euer, Numb. 3.10. And the scepter was not to depart from Iuda till Christ came, Genes. 49.10. As the Lorde also had promised to Dauid, that the Kingdome should remaine in his seede. 2. Chron. 22.3.

2 Constantine the great gaue vnto the Pope the chiefe gouernement of the Citie of Rome, and other Lordships in Italie, yea the soueraigntie ouer the West parts: why then is it not lawfull for him to enioy his gift? Bellarmine lib. 5. cap. 9.

Ans. First, the donation of Constantine seemeth to be forged: for if Constan∣tine resigned to Siluester the politicall dominion of the west partes, how could he then haue distributed his Empire amongst his sonnes, as the West part to one, the East to the second, the middle part to the third? Againe, the donation saith, that Constantine was baptised at Rome by Siluester before the battaile a∣gainst Maximinus, and that then the patrimonie was giuen: but it is certaine by stories that he was baptised at Nicomedia, by Eusebius Bishop there, in the 31. yeere of his raigne: wherefore it seemeth to be a forged and deuised thing. plur. apud. Fox. pag. 105.

2 Aeneas Siluius saith, that Mathilda, a noble Dutches in Italie,* gaue those landes to the Pope, which are called S. Peters patrimonie: how then can it be true, that they were giuen by Constantine? Thirdly, the popish doctors and Canonists confesse, that Constantines grant is not so much to bee counted a do∣nation, as a restitution of that which tyrannouslie was taken from him: but hee hath his power spirituall and temporall immediatly from Christ: you see then that they themselues make no great reckoning of Constantines donation. Antoni. summa, maior. 3. part.

4 Yet if Constantinus that good Emperor had been so minded,* to haue bestowed the imperiall dignitie vpon the bishop of Rome: there remaineth a great question, whether he ought to haue accepted of it or not; nay hee should haue refused it: for the temporall sword belongeth not to spirituall gouernors: At the least it had been a charitable part, not to haue suffered the Emperor to disinherite his owne sonnes, for to enrich the See of Rome: as Augustine very well saith, Qui vult, exhaeredato filio, ecclesiam haeredem facere, quaerat alterum, qui suscipiat, non Augustinum, immo deo propitio nullum inueniat.* He that would make the Church his heire, and defeate his own children, let him seeke some bo∣die else, to accept of his gift: surely Augustine wil not, nor I trust any honest man beside.

The Protestants.

FIrst we willingly grant, that the Church may inioy those tēporall possessions, which haue been of old granted vnto it for the better maintenance thereof, so they bee not abused to riot and excesse: as the Leuites beside their tithes, Page  154 had their cities and fieldes, Numb. 35. Secondly, the iudgement of Ecclesiasti∣call matters doth of right appertaine to the Church, as Amariah the Priest was the chiefe in all matters of the Lord, 2. Chron. 19.11. Thirdly, we doe not vtterly exclude spirituall persons from temporall causes: but as the ciuill Ma∣gistrate hath his interest in ordaining of Ecclesiasticall lawes, so spirituall per∣sons ought not to be strangers from the ciuill state; being meete men for their knowledge and conscience to be consulted withall, and conferred with, and to be ioyned in Councell with the Magistrate in difficult matters: as wee reade, Deuter. 17.8. How the high Priest, and chiefe iudge, did ioyne in mutuall helpe and assistance. But that any spirituall person may bee a temporall prince, and haue the chiefe gouernement of both states, and handle both swordes, we say it is contrarie to the word of God: for in these three poyntes standeth chiefly the office of the prince, in making and ordaining ciuill lawes, in ha∣uing power of life and death, in proclaiming of warre, and waging of battayle: with none of these ought Ecclesiasticall persons to deale, as we will now shew in order.

1 Concerning the making of ciuill lawes and statutes, though the Eccle∣siasticall bodie, according to the ancient custome of this land, haue their suf∣frage and voyce, and doe giue consent: yet the chiefe stroke, in alowing, confir∣ming, and enacting of such lawes is in the prince, and cannot agree or bee mat∣ched with any spirituall office.

Saint Paul saith, Who is sufficient for these things? that is, for the work of the Ministerie, 2. Cor. 2.16. If therefore spirituall persons suffice not to execute to the full, their spirituall charge, though they should bend all their studie and care that way, much more insufficient shall they be, if they be entangled in tempo∣rall affayres, for the well guiding and ordering whereof a whole man likewise is scarce sufficient.

Againe (saith he) no man that warreth, entangleth himselfe with the affaires of this life, 2. Timoth. 2.4. By affaires seculare here are not onely vnderstoode (as the Iesuite imagineth) merchandise, traffike, buying, selling, and such like, but the care and charge also of ciuill gouernement, of making lawes and orders for the ciuill state, which must needs bee a great let to the spirituall busines, and require greater studie and labor, then the other baser workes which are named. To this Augustine agreeth: Quo iure (saith he) defendis villas? Vnde quisque pos∣sidet quod habet? Iure humano, iure imperatorum: quare? quia ipsa iura humana per imperatores & reges seculi Deus distribuit generi humano. tract. in Ihoann. 6. By what law doest thou defend thy possessions? by the lawe of man, the lawe of the Emperors: for these humane lawes, by Gods ordinance are giuen vnto men by the Emperors and Kings of the world. See then, ciuill lawes, and humane constitutions are giuen and made, not by the Pope, Priest, or any other Prelate, but onely by Kings and Princes, and the ciuill magistrates.

2 It were a mōstrous & an vnnatural thing, that any Ecclesiastical gouernor should haue power of life & death: for he hath no better right to the ciuil sword, Page  153 then the prince to the Ecclesiasticall sword: and if it be not lawfull for the ci∣uill Magistrate to excommunicate, which is as the spituall sword, and the grea∣test censure of the Church, no more is it to be suffered, that by the authoritie or commaundement of any Ecclesiasticall person, any man should bee put to death.

The high Priest was not to deale with matters of bloud, which touched the life: but the offenders were brought to the gates of the citie, where the magi∣strates sate. Deuter. 17.5. Not to the temple, where the priest ministred. Nay, we see, that in the most corrupt times of the Iewish common-wealth, namelie, when they put our blessed Sauiour to death, the priests did not challenge any such power: It is not lawful (say they) for vs, to put any to death: Iohn 18.31. But that power was in the temporall Magistrate, as Pilate said to Christ, Know∣est thou not, that I haue power to crucifie thee, and power to loose thee? Ioh. 19.10. Ergo, the Pope cannot bee a temporall prince, to haue power of life and death.

3 If the Pope be a temporall prince, then hee may wage battaile, which although the Iesuite dare not plainely affirme, yet it followeth necessarilie vpon his assertion: for it is lawfull for any temporall prince to make warre: And it hath been the common practise of Popes and popish prelates so to doe.

There were great & bitter battailes fought betweene Vrbane the sixt, and the Antipope Clement, in the which on the one side there were 5000. slaine. Fox pag. 434. Henry Spenser a lustie young bloud, Bishop of Norwich, was the Popes Captaine generall in France: where he sacked the towne of Grauenidge,* and put man, woman and childe to the sword.

So Pope Iulius cast his keyes into the Riuer Tybris, and tooke himselfe to his sword: waged many battailes, and at the last was encountred withall by Lewes the French King, vpon Easter day: where there was of his army slaine, to the nū∣ber of 16000. But these warlike affaires of the Pope misliked the Papists them∣selues: for hee was therefore condemned in the Councell of Turone in France,*Anno. 1510. We may see how well these furious Popes doe followe the rule of Christ, who cōmaunded Peter to put vp his sword into his sheath: If it were not lawfull for Peter to strike with the sword, how is it lawfull for the Popes, that, I am sure, dare not challenge more to themselues, then was lawfull for Peter? Thus wee see how absurd a thing it is, that the Pope should bee a temporall Prince.

THE NINTH QVESTION OF THE PRE∣rogatiues of the Pope.

BEside these priuiledges and immunities of the See of Rome, which hither∣to we haue spoken of both in spirituall and temporall matters, there are other prerogatiues, which haue been in times past giuen to the Bishops of Rome, most blasphemous & wicked, which the Papists of this age are ashamed of, and Page  154 therefore passe them ouer with silence: for Bellarmine saith nothing of them: Wee will therefore spare our labor in confuting of them, they are so grosse and absurd, but onely bring them forth, that the godly reader may vnderstand the a∣bomination of the whore of Babylon.

There are three monstrous and shameful prerogatiues, which the Canonists ascribed to the Pope in times past: and they are these, his power dispensatiue, his power exemptiue, his power transcendent, so we will call them at this time. [error 53] First, his prerogatiue in dispensing was wonderfull: it would offend a Christian eare, to heare what his grosse Canonists are nothing ashamed to say, Papa potest dispensare contra ius diuinum,* the Pope may dispence against the Lawe of God, contra ius naturae, against the Lawe of nature: contra Apostolum, against the Apostle, contra nouum testamentum, against the new Testament: Nay, Pa∣pa potest dispensare de omnibus praeceptis veteris & noui testamenti: the Pope may dispence with all the Commaundements both of the olde and new lawe. What intolerable blasphemies are here? The practises also of Popes are agreeable hereunto: for did not the Court of Rome dispence with King Henry the eights marriage with his brothers wife? but that vngodly dispensation at the last was ouerthrowne: and it was well concluded by act of Parliament: Anno. 1533. That no man had authoritie to dispence with Gods lawes.

[error 54] 2 Concerning his power exemptiue: the Pope (say they) is not bound to any lawe: No man is to iudge or accuse him of any crime, either of adulterie, murther, simonie, or such like. If he fall into adulterie, or homicide, hee can∣not bee accused,* but rather excused, by the murthers of Sampson, theftes of the Hebrues, the adulterie of Iacob. As Oziah was stricken for putting his hand to the Arke inclining, no more must subiects rebuke their Prelates go∣ing awry:* by the inclination of the Arke, the fall of prelates is vnderstoode. This generally is the opinion of the Canonists: but the Iesuites doo holde the contrarie, that it is lawfull, euen for an inferior priest to rebuke the Pope. Rhemist. Annot. in 2. Galath. sect. 8. Wherefore, seeing they confute them∣selues, they neede not any other refutation.

[error 55] 3 Concerning the third power, which we call Transcendent: One saith, that,*non minor honor Papae debetur, quàm Angelis, that there is no lesse ho∣nor due to the Pope, thē to Angels. Another saith: Papatus est summa virtus cre∣ata, The Popedome is the highest power, that was created of God, aboue An∣gels, or Archangels. Againe, those wordes of the Psalme, thou hast put all things vnder his foote,* as sheepe and oxen, fowles of the ayre, fishes of the sea: they thus blasphemouslie applie to the Pope, by sheepe and oxen vnder∣standing men liuing vpon the earth:* by the fowles of the ayre, the Angels in Heauen, whom they say, the Pope may commaunde; by the fishes, the soules in purgatorie: Ouer all these the Pope, say they, hath absolute power, who may, if it please him, release all purgatorie at once. What horrible blasphemies are here? Yet our Rhemists and other Iesuites are somewhat more modest, which confesse that the Pope is but Christs Vicar in the regi∣ment Page  155 of that part which is on the earth. Annotat. 1. Ephesians sect. 5. See∣ing then they confute themselues, wee will not further trauaile herein, but proceede.

THE TENTH QVESTION, CONCERNING Antichrist, and whether the Pope be that great aduer∣sarie vnto Christ.

THis question is deuided into many partes. First, whether Antichrist shall bee some one singular man. Secondly, of the time of his comming and continuing. Thirdly, of his name. Fourthly, of what nation or kinred hee shall come. Fiftly, where his place and seate shall bee. Sixtly, of his Doctrine and manners. Seauenthly, of his miracles. Eightly, of his Kingdome and warres. Ninthly, whether the Pope bee the very Antichrist. This then is a most famous question, and worthie throughly to bee discussed, euery poynte therefore must be handled in order.

The Papists.

THey hold that Antichrist, whose comming is foretolde in the Scripture, shall [error 56] be one particular man, not a whole bodie, tyrannie, or Kingdome, as the truth is, Bellarm. cap. 2. lib. 3.

1 They vrge the words of our Sauiour, Iohn 5.43. I come in my Fathers name, and ye receiue me not, if another come in his owne name, him will ye re∣ceiue. Here Christ, say they, speaketh of another that shall come, namely An∣tichrist, for here one is opposed to one, namely, Antichrist to Christ, not a Kingdome to a Kingdome, or sect vnto sect, but one person to another. Bel∣larmine cap. 2. lib. 3.

Ans. First, here is not so much an opposition of persons, as there is of doc∣trine, as to preach in the name of God, and to preach in the name of men: and though Christ be the chiefe doctor and teacher, that came in the name of his Father, yet all true preachers beside, doe come in the same name: for so our Saui∣our saith of his Apostles, He that receiueth you, receiueth me, and he that recei∣ueth me, receiueth him that sent me Matth. 10.40. Therefore, he that receiueth the Apostles, receciueth God: they also then doe come in the name of Christ: and so Christ and all the faithfull make but one, Iohn 17.21.

2 Neither doth Christ here speake of one speciall enemie, but of all false prophets, for it is not vnusuall in the Scripture, in the singular number to ex∣presse a multitude being of the same kinde, as Iohn 10.11.12. There is a compa∣rison betweene Christ the true shepheard, and the hireling: where, by the name of hireling, all false shepheards and spirituall theeues are vnderstood, and so is it in this place: therefore they cannot conclude out of this place, that Antichrist shall be but one man.

Page  1562 An other proofe is out of 1. Iohn 2.18. the Antichrist shal come, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, the Greeke article, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, expresseth some singular notable person. Bellarmine ibid.

Ans. It is false. The Greeke article doth not alwaies in scripture assigne some particular person: as Matth. 4.4. Man shall not liue by bread onely: the Greeke text hath 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, the man, and yet is it vnderstood not of any one man, but of all in generall, so 2. Tim. 2.17. The man of God, that is, euery faithfull minister, or good Christian, yet is it expressed with the article. Fulk. Annota. 2. Thess. 2. sect. 8.

3 Apocal. 13.18. It is the number of a man: the proper name of Antichrist is set downe, Ergo, but one man. Bellar. ibid. Rhemens. 2. Thes. 2. sect. 8.

Ans. The name here mystically described, which shal conteine 666. in num∣ber, for so the Greek letters 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉▪ doe signifie being nūbred, doth not expresse any particular name of one man, but rather of the whole societie and bodie of Antichrist: for it is said to be the number of the beast. Now by the beast is vn∣derstoode the Romane Empire, the name whereof is 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, Latinus, which let∣ters doe arise in computation to the whole number of, 666. And this name Ire∣naeus thinketh to agree best to this place. Further, seeing the Rhemists themselues by the best do vnderstand the vniuersal companie of the wicked, Reuel. 13. ve. 1. And this is the name or number of the beast: it must be vnderstood, by their own confession, of a companie and congregation, and not of one singular person.

The Protestants.

THat Antichrist, which is interpreted an aduersary, or against Christ, shal not be one man (as the Papists imagine, that the Popes might be disburdened and discharged of this name, who are many) but that it is a whole body, com∣panie and sinagogue, and a succession of heretikes, we doe thus proue it.

*1 The mysterie of iniquitie wrought in Paules time, then was there a way in preparing for Antichrist. 2. Thes. 2. But it is vnpossible for one man to conti∣nue from Paules time to the end of the worlde, Ergo, Antichrist is not one man but a succession of heretikes.

Bellarmine answereth: if the mysterie of iniquitie began in Paules time, that is, the kingdome of Antichrist; and you will needes make Rome the seate of Anti∣christ: belike S. Paul and S. Peter were the Antichrists, for there were no Bishops of Rome beside at that time. Ans. First, that Antichrist begā then to work euen in Rome it cānot be denied, seeing the Papists confesse, that Simon Magus first broched his heresie there, and that Peter calleth Rome Babylon. It is not neces∣sarie, that the mysterie of iniquity should so soone creepe into the very chaire of the Pastors and Bishops: that should come to passe in the full reuelation of An∣tichrist: It is sufficient that it wrought closely amongst the false apostles: where∣fore the Iesuits obiection concerning Peter and Paule, is ridiculous. Fulk. Anno. 2. Thes. 2. sect. 9.

2 S. Paul saith, that there must come a departing or apostasie & generall fal∣ling Page  157 from the faith: for that an apostacie signifieth a relinquishing of the faith, not a departure from the Romane Empire. Now this generall falling away from the faith cannot be accomplished in one man, but it sheweth a whole bodie or companie, whereof Antichrist is the head, one man of sinne succeeding another by succession: and this apostacie cannot be wrought at one time, but it shall come to passe in seuerall ages: for how is it possible, that at once such a generall apostacie should be? Ergo, Antichrist shall not be one particular man, Argum. Caluini. Neither can the Iesuite thus shift off the argument, to say, that this gene∣rall apostacie is but a preparation to the kingdome of Antichrist, not that he shall then bee presently come: for S▪ Paul ioyneth both these together: There must come a departing first, that the man of sinne be disclosed, vers. 3. So that this very apostacie and departing shall be a disclosing and manifest declaration of Antichrist.

3 Iohn 3.7. The Apostle sayth: Many deceiuers are come into the world, which confesse not that Iesus Christ is come in the flesh: the same is the decei∣uer and the Antichrist: Marke then, one deceiuer is many deceiuers: one Anti∣christ many Antichrists, 1. Iohn 2.18. Ergo, Antichrist shall not be one man, but many, Argument. Ful. annot. 2. Thess. 2. sect. 8.

4 Augustine sheweth, how that in his time this place of S. Paul was not ex∣pounded of any one man, but of a whole bodie: Nonnulli non ipsum principent, sed vniuersum quodammodo corpus eius,*simul cum suo principe hoc loco intelligi Antichristum volunt: Some (saith he) doe take Antichrist not for the head alone, but for the whole bodie and multitude together with their prince. And their coniecture is this: because these words, vers. 7. He which withholdeth, are vn∣derstood of the Empire & Emperours of Rome, which were many: so the man of sinne, which is described as in the person of one, may fitly be vnderstood of a succession of many.

THE SECOND PART, WHETHER ANTICHIST be yet come, and how long he shall continue.
The Papists.

THe Romish Iesuites doe hold that Antichrist is not yet come, neither can they tell when he shal come: But this they say boldly, that Henoch and Elias, [error 57] who liue all this while in Paradise, shall come immediatly before Antichrist, and that Antichrist, when he is come, shall raigne but three yeeres and an halfe, and then shall the world end, Bellarm. cap. 4. lib. 3. de pontif. Rhemist. 11. Apocal. sect. 2.4.

1 The Romane Empire must vtterly be destroyed & layd wast before Anti∣christ come: as S. Paul sayth, That which withholdeth must first be taken away, 2. Thess. 2.7. that is, the Romane Empire. But the Empire yet remayneth: for the Emperour is knowne by name, and there are also prince electors of the Em∣pire: Ergo, Antichrist is not yet come, Bellarm. cap. 5.

Page  158Answere: It is true that the Romane Empire, while it retayned and kept the ancient dignitie, maiestie and power thereof, was an hinderance and let to the tyrannie of Antichrist, but when it began to decay, then Antichrist set in his foote. First, it was not necessarie therefore that the Empire should vtterly be ex∣tinguished, but so much onely taken away, namely the ancient honour and im∣periall maiestie therof, as hindered Antichrist, and so we finde, that the Romane Empire was more then halfe decayed, when Antichrist crept into Rome. Se∣condly, the imperiall power must in some sort be restored by Antichrist: for the Pope vsurped the same authoritie which the Emperours had, yea greater: for the whore is described sitting vpon the beast, Apocal. 17. which is the Empire: and therefore it is sayd, vers. 8. The beast that was, and is not, and yet is: for the ancient Empire both is, and is not: It is, because the power thereof is translated to the Pope: it is not, that is, not in that kingly manner, as it was in times past. Apocal. 13.12. The beast that rose out of the earth with two hornes like a lamb, did all that the first beast could doe before him: that is, the power of the Em∣pire was in the Pope. Thirdly, Apocal. 13.15. It is sayd, that the image of the beast remayned, & that the other beast gaue a spirit vnto the image of the beast: So is it at this day, the name and image of the Empire remayneth, but the maie∣stie and power is gone: And who giueth life to the image but the Pope? he con∣firmeth and ratifieth the election of the Emperour. Wherefore, this rather is an argument that Antichrist is alreadie come, because nothing but the image of the beast remayneth.

2 Antichrist shall raigne three yeeres and an halfe: but if hee were alreadie come, he must needes haue raigned diuers hundred yeeres alreadie, Bellarmin. cap. 8.

They proue this raigne of Antichrist for this short season, out of those places of Daniel 7.25. A time, times, and halfe a time: and Apocal. 12.14. Also it is de∣scribed by dayes 1260. dayes, and by moneths 11.2. two and fourtie moneths: which all come to one reckoning, and make three yeeres and an halfe.

Answere: First, the time is also set downe by the name of three dayes and an halfe, Apocal. 11.11. How then is it likely, that 1260. dayes and three dayes and an halfe, should signifie the same time? Secondly, with much better sense are these times applied by our learned and painfull countreyman Master Fox, to the great persecution vnder the Emperours, which continued 294. yeeres, which time is mystically signified by 42. moneths, taking euery moneth for a sabboth of yeeres. And the rest of the numbers agree hereunto: for 1260. dayes make three yeeres and an halfe, that is, moneths 42: and three daies and an halfe make houres 42.* So taking euery houre in the dayes, and euery moneth in the yeeres for a sabboth of yeeres, there ariseth 294. yeeres, which was the iust time of the persecution from the death of Iohn Baptist, vnto the end of Licinius the tyrant & persecutor. This account, I say, better agreeth with the truth of historie, then their imagined computation. Thirdly, if it should be taken, as they expound it, for so short a time, then very little of the prophecie in the Apocalyps is yet fulfil∣led, Page  159 which we doubt not but is most accomplished, as it may appeare in compa∣ring the visions reuealed in that booke together. And agayne, there is no pro∣phecie beside this of 42. moneths, which can bee applyed to the great persecu∣tion in the Primitiue Church: wherefore it is not like that the Lord would leaue his Church, without some comfort, in forewarning them of those great troubles which immediatly ensued. But if these prophecies, which are wrested by the Papists, did no foretell of those persecutions, then are they vtterly forgotten in that booke: which is not like, it being the greatest triall that euer the Church had.

4 We say then, that wee are not curiouslie to search into times and seasons, which the Lord hath not reuealed: Onely this wee learne, that the time of affli∣ction being set downe by dayes and monethes, the faithfull should hereby bee comforted, knowing that the time of their trouble is limitted of God, and is but short in respect of the kingdome of Christ.

2 The Lord sayth, Math. 24. that those daies shall be shortned, lest no flesh should be saued. But how can the time bee short, if it should last some hun∣dreds, or a thousand of yeeres? Bellarmin. cap. 8. Rhemist. annot. Matth. 24. sect. 6.

Answere: First, that place vers. 22. is properly vnderstood of the calamitie of the Iewes, which if it had continued any longer, the nation of the Iewes had bin vtterly destroyed. Secondly, yet notwithstanding the raigne of Antichrist is short in respect of the eternall kingdome of Christ: yea the whole time from his ascension vntill his comming agayne, is counted but short, Apocal. 22.20. I come quickly: and S. Peter sayth, That a thousand yeeres before God is as one day, and one day as a thousand yeeres, 2. Pet. 3.

3 Christ preached but three yeeres and an halfe, therefore Antichrist shalbe suffered to preach no longer.

Answere: First, yet Christ was thirtie yeeres old when he began to preach, and shewed himselfe before, though not so openly, as when he was twelue yeere old he disputed with the Doctors in the temple: he was also acknowledged for the Messiah in his natiuitie. If Antichrist then must in this respect be correspon∣dent to Christ, he must also be knowne to be thirtie yeeres vpon earth, before he be fully manifested. Secondly, though Christ himselfe preached no longer, yet he sent his Apostles, who preached many yeeres after: we doe not therefore op∣pose the person of Antichrist, whom we denye to be a singular man, to Christ, but the kingdome of the one to the other. Now by their owne reason, it follow∣eth, that because the kingdome of Christ endured many yeeres, and yet doth, that therefore Antichrists kingdome must likewise.

Other demonstrations the Iesuite hath to prooue that Antichrist is not yet come: as because the Gospell is not yet preached to all the world, cap. 4. Bellar. Helias and Henoch are not yet come, who are certainly looked for, cap. 6. There shall bee a most grieuous and terrible persecution vnder Antichrist, which is not yet past, cap. 7. But these arguments shall bee answered in another Page  160 place towards the end of this worke, when we come to speake of the appearing of Christ to iudgement.

The Protestants.

THat Antichrist shall raigne but three yeeres and an halfe, we take it for a meere fable, and a very popish dreame: whereas on the contrarie side, wee are able to shewe, both that Antichrist is alreadie come, and hath tyrannized in the world these many yeeres.

1 We will make it plaine by demonstration, that Antichrist hath been in the world many yeeres agoe, by the propheticall places of scripture. First, it is sayd, the number of Antichrist is 666. Apocal. 13.18. So, anno. 606. or there∣about, Boniface the 3. obtayned of Phocas the Emperour to be called vniuersall Bishop. Thus sayth Illyricus, Chytraeus. Also beginning at the yeere of the Lord 97. at which time Iohn wrote the Apocalyps, and counting 666. yeeres, we shal come to the time of Pipinus, whom the Pope made King of France, and he a∣gayne much enlarged the iurisdiction and authoritie of the Pope. And yet more euidently, about the yeere of the Lord 666. the Latine seruice was com∣manded to be vsed in all countreys subiect to the See of Rome, by Pope Vitalia∣nus: and about the same time, Constantius the Emperour remoued the ancient monuments of the Empire to Constantinople, and left the citie to the Popes plea∣sure, Fulk. annot. in 13. Reuel. sect. 10.

Another prophecie we haue, Reuel. 20.3. that after one 1000. yeeres Sathan must be let loose. Euen so, a thousand yeeres after Christ, Pope Siluester a great coniurer, hauing made a compact with the Diuell, obtayned the Papacie, and not long after him came in Gregorie the 7. a great Sorcerer also and Necroman∣cer, sic Lutherus.

But because it is not to be thought, that Sathan was bound during that great and long persecution vnder the Romane Emperours, wee must begin the ac∣count of the 1000. yeeres, from the end of the persecution, which continued 294. yeeres: vnto that adde a thousand, so haue we the yeere of our Lord 1294. About which yeere Boniface the 8. made the sixt booke of the Decretals, confir∣med the orders of Friers, and gaue them great freedomes: with this number a∣greeth Daniel his 1290. dayes, Dan. 12.1. Also somewhat before this time, anno 1260. the orders of Dominicke and Franciscane Friers began first to be set vp by Honorius the 3. and Gregorie the 9. and so haue we the 1260. daies, which are set downe, Apocal. 12. plura apud Fox. pag. 398.

2 If Antichrist should raigne but three yeeres and an halfe, as our aduersa∣ries teach, and then immediatly that time being expired, the world should end: then it is possible to assigne the time of our Lord Christ his comming to iudge∣ment, so soone as Antichrist is reuealed. But the Gospell sayth, that of that day and houre knoweth no man, no not the Angels in heauen, Math. 24.36. yet these good fellowes take vpon them to be wiser then the Angels: for they dare Page  161 set downe the very day of Christs comming: which shall be, as Bellarmine pre∣sumptuously imagineth, iust 45. dayes after the destruction of Antichrist. And to this purpose he abuseth that place of Dan. 12.11. where mention is made of 1290. dayes, that is, as he fondly interpreteth, three yeeres and an halfe, the iust time of Antichrists raigne: But blessed is he that commeth (sayth the Prophet) to 1335. dayes: that is, sayth Bellarmine, to 45. dayes after the destruction of Antichrist, and then Christ commeth, cap. 9. What intolerable boldnes and presumption is this, contrarie to the saying of Christ, to attempt to declare the very houre of his comming?

Agayne: the prophecie of Daniel had no such meaning: for he onely spea∣keth of the afflictions of the Church, before the comming of Christ, as Iohn pro∣phecieth of the troubles that came after. Daniel therfore in that place receiueth instructions concerning the cruell persecution of the Iewes vnder Antiochus E∣piphanes, the beginning, and the end thereof: There are three times reuealed vnto him.

The first is of a time, two times, and halfe a time, or rather the deuiding of time, or as Tremellius more agreeable to the Hebrew, a part or parcel of times:* so long should the temple be defiled, and the abomination set vp in the temple, that is, three yeeres and certayne dayes: And so it came to passe, for this deso∣lation began in the temple the 145. yeere of the raigne of the Greekes, the fif∣teene day of the moneth Casleu. 1. Macchab. 1.57. when Antiochus caused the daylie sacrifice to cease, and incense to bee burnt to Idols: And iust three yeeres and ten dayes after, which is to bee reckoned for the odde parcell of times, Ann. 148. the 25. day of Casleu, they began to offer sacrifice in the temple according to the lawe, 1. Macchab. 4.52.

The second time reuealed, is of a 1290. dayes, Dan. 12.11. which maketh three yeeres, seuen moneths and odde dayes: which is the time, counting from the desolation, when as the sacrifices should be restored, and confirmed by the Kings graunt, and Letters Patents: which accordingly came to passe, ann. 148. the fifteenth of the moneth Xanthicus, which was the last moneth but one, as it is recorded, 2. Macchab. 11.33.

The third time is described by dayes, 1335. Dan. 12.12. Blessed is hee that should liue to see that time: namely, when the Church of the Iewes should ful∣lie bee deliuered by the death of Antiochus, which was in the beginning of the next yeere, which was 149. 1. Macchab. 6.16. Thus wee see these times were fully accomplished vnder the tyrannie of Antiochus: wherefore these prophe∣cies being once fulfilled, they cannot bee drawne to signifie any other time, but by way of similitude and comparison.

Neither is that any thing worth, which the Iesuite obiecteth out of S. Paul, 2. Thess. 2.8. Then shall the wicked man bee reuealed, whom Christ shall con∣sume with the spirit of his mouth: As though presently after the reuelation of Antichrist Christ should come. And therefore Antichrist must not be expected Page  162 or looked for before the end of the world: for the whole time from the first com∣ming of Christ to his second, is in the scripture called nouissima hora, the last times, 1. Ioh. 2.18. And therefore Antichrist, at what time soeuer he is reuealed after the ascension of Christ, he commeth in the last times: whose vtter ruine and destruction shall be reserued for the glorious appearing of Christ, as the A∣postle there speaketh.

3 Whereas the scripture sayth, that Sathan must bee bound for a thousand yeeres, and after let loose agayne, Apocal. 20.2: And it is playne that the thou∣sand yeeres since Christ are expired more then fiue hundred yeeres agoe: It followeth hereupon that Antichrist is alreadie come: for he must bee reuealed with the loosing of Sathan. Our aduersaries haue nothing to answere but this, that by this 1000. yeeres, a certayne time is not ment, but the whole space du∣ring the time of the newe Testament, till the comming of Antichrist, Rhemist. Reuel. 20. sect. 1. To whom wee answere, that by the same reason, neither shall their 42. moneths shewe any certayne time, but the whole space so long as An∣tichrist shall raigne: and this number of moneths, as of dayes, weekes, houres, the scripture euery where taketh mystically in prophecies: but when thousands, or hundred yeeres are mentioned, they are alwaies taken literally: as Isay. 7.8. it is prophecied, that Ephraim, that is, Israel, should vtterly cease to bee a people within 65. yeeres, which euen so came to passe, counting from the fourth yeere of the raigne of Ahaz King of Iuda, to the 25. yeere of Manasses, when the rem∣nant of Israel was carried away.

THE THIRD PART CONCERNING THE NAME, character and signe of Antichrist.
The Papists.

THey stoutly affirme, that Antichrist shall be one particular man, consequent∣ly [error 58] they also hold, that he shall haue a certayne name, as Christ is called Iesus, so Antichrist must also haue a proper name: but what that name shall be, no man can tell, vntill hee come: but it shall consist of certayne letters, that in number make sixe hundred sixtie sixe, Bellarm. cap. 10. Rhemist. annot. Apocal. 13. sect. 10.

1 Apocal. 13.18. Count the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666. Hereupon they conclude, that Antichrist shall haue a certayne name, which conteyneth that number, Bellarm. ibid.

Answere: First, it is the number of the beast, and yet of a man: Ergo, it cannot bee the name of any one man: for by the beast, the Iesuites themselues vnder∣stand a companie or multitude, Rhemist. Apocal. 13. sect. 1. Wherefore it must be such a name as agreeth to a companie or succession of men, and such is the name Latinus, as afterward we will shewe. Secondly, it must bee a name by number, Page  163 shewing the time, not an idle number signifying nothing; the time of his com∣ming is set downe to be 666: But the name of their Antichrist cannot shew any such time, seeing there are yeeres more then twise 666. gone alreadie, and yet they say, their Antichrist is not yet come.

2 Antichrist shall haue a name, as Christ had, but it is not necessarie to bee knowne, otherwise then Christ his name was:* which was descri∣bed by Sibil by the number of 888. as Antichrists is by 666. yet was not his name, Iesus, perfectly knowne before his com∣ming, neither is it necessarie that Antichrists should before that time. Iesus, in Greeke letters thus, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, maketh as you see 888. Bellarm. cap. 10.

Answere: First, you must proue Antichrist to be one singular man as Christ was, and then striue for his name. Secondly, you doe euill to match Sibils pro∣phecie, and Iohns reuelation together, as though her coniecture of the name of Christ, by the number 888. were of like authoritie with Iohns prophecie, of 666. Thirdly, it is false, that the name, Iesus, was onely by Sibil signified by these numbers: for Augustine alleadgeth certayne verses of Sibil, which began with the letters of Christs name in order one after another: so that the first letters of the verses shewed this title or name: 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉: Iesus Christus filius Dei saluator: And the Latine verses translated out of the Greeke, doe almost keepe the same order of letters, August. cont. Iudaeos pagan. cap. 16. We see then that Sibil foretold the very name, Iesus Christ, and did not onely decipher it by numbers. Why might not Antichrists name as well be shewed?

The Protestants.

WE affirme by warrant of scripture, that as it is a meere fable, that Anti∣christ shall bee one singular man; so of the like truth is it, that hee shall be knowne by some notorious name: neither can any such thing bee gathered, Apocal. 13.18.

1 If there should come such a notorious wicked person into the world, who only should deserue to be called Antichrist, it is not vnlike, but that the spirit of God, speaking of his name, both could & would also haue expressed it: As Iosias was described by name, 1. King. 13.20 and Cyrus, Isai. long before either of them came into the world: And why, I pray you, might not this pro∣pheticall Euangelist, haue named Antichrist, as well as Sibilla foretold the name of our Sauiour Iesus Christ?

Agayne, Christs names were prophecied of and knowne before: One name of his is to bee called a Nazarite, so the people call him, Math. 2.11. a pro∣phet of Nazareth. This name the Prophet hath, Isay. 11.1. he calleth him, Net∣ser, in Hebrew it signifieth a branch. Another name of his, is King of Israel, Iohn 12.23. prophecied of by Zachar. 9.9. Also he was called the sonne of Da∣uid, Math. 21.9. And Isay sayth, he shall spring out of the roote of Iesse. 11.1.

Page  164Further, hee was knowne by the name Messiah, or Christ, before he came, Ioh. 4. the woman of Samaria said, I know well that Messiah shal come, which is called Christ, vers. 25. This name was reuealed to Daniel, 9.25. he is called Mes∣siah, the prince.

But will our aduersaries say, his name Iesus was not knowne before his com∣ming? yes, euen that name also hath some euidence out of the Prophets: for Ie∣sus or Iesua, is all one, and signifieth a Sauiour: of the which name we reade Za∣char. 3. where mention is made of Ieshua the high Priest, who was a type of our Sauiour Christ, and bare his name, for vers. 5. a Diademe is set vpon his head: which must needes bee vnderstood of Iesus Christ, our high Priest. Agayne, he is called Hosanna, Iohn 12.13. which signifieth the same that Iesus, and both are deriued from the same roote: translated, Saue vs. Which name we finde in the 118. Psal. vers. 25.

Lastly, if the name Iesus Christ were reuealed to Sibilla a heathen prophe∣tisse, how can it be, that the Prophets of God were ignorant of it? Therefore by their owne argument, seeing Christs names were knowne before his comming, why should not Antichrists in like manner, if he should be some one singular notorious man?

2 We can bring foorth a name, which in all respects agreeth with that de∣scription, Apocal. 13.18. which is a name both of a man and of the beast, that is, of a companie, or succession of men, which sheweth the time of Antichrists birth, namely, the yeere 666. which also doth fitly agree with the manners and properties of Antichrist: and that is the name Latinus, which in Greeke letters 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, sheweth in account, the number 666. and so doth the name of Rome in Hebrew — 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, romiijth. And, ecclesia Italica,* in Greeke let∣ters doe make the same number.

We see then, that all things do well agree to this name: first, that is signifieth the whole Latin Church or Empire, & so is the name of the beast. Secondly, it sheweth the time 666. about which yeere Pope Vitalianus composed the Latin Seruice, and enioyned all Nations to vse no other. Thirdly, it properly a∣greeth with the Antichristian practise of Rome; which is called the Latine Church. And contrarie to S. Paules rule they haue brought an vn∣knowne tongue which edifieth not, into the seruice of God: yea they preferre it before the Greeke and Hebrew, making the Latine translation of the scrip∣tures onely authenticall, as it was concluded in their Tridentine chapter. And they doe so much extoll their Latine text, as the setter forth of the Complutense edition is not ashamed in his preface to write, that he hath placed the Latine text betweene the Hebrew and the Greeke, as Christ betweene the two theeues, Fulk. Apocal. 13. sect. 10. What Church then in the whole world but theirs, can be called the Latine Church? Fourthly, it also maketh much for vs, that we haue a consent of names, for 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, & in Hebrew Romiijth, doe all make the same number, and doe note the Latine, Romane, or Italian Church.

Page  165But they obiect: First that Latinus maketh not that number with 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. but La∣teinus with 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. A great matter: wherein they shew their ignorance, as though the Greeke dipthong, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. be not vsually expressed by a single 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. in Latine, as we say, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, Antiocheia in Greeke, and 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, Alexandreia, with 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. dipthong: in Latine, Antiochia, Alexandria, with single 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. for the cities of Antioch, and A∣lexandria: this therefore is a small quarell. But mark I pray, what a poore shift this is: If this smal letter 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. be but admitted, the Pope is made Antichrist: so we haue found out Antichrist, sauing one small letter.

2. Why, there are many names beside, that make that number, as 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, and others: nay the Rhemists say, that Luthers name, in the Hebrue, and Bellarmine, that Dauid Chytraeus his name, doe expresse that number of 666. But what of all this? there is none of these names, vnto the which the three pro∣perties aforesayd doe agree, as they doe vnto Latinus, as to betoken the whole body of Antichrist, to shew the time of his birth, and describe the qualities of his Kingdome, as the word Latinus doth, yet this we doe not say, that this is the very name which is meant in that place, and that the Prophesie can haue no other meaning: But to shew how ridiculous their interpretation is, and how much nearer ours commeth to the truth.

OF THE CHARACTER OR SIGNE and badge of Antichrist.
The Papists.

THey do hold that Antichrist shall haue a certaine outward marke or chara∣cter, which he shall cause to be printed in the right hands, and foreheads [error 59] of all both small and great, that doe belong to his kingdome, Apocal. 13.16. But this marke is not yet knowen, no more then his name is: Onely this they are sure of, that the Pope hath not Antichrists character, but rather the chara∣cter of Christ, the signe of the Crosse which he causeth to be signed in the fore∣heads, Bellarmin. cap. 11.

1. Antichrist must in all respects be contrarie to Christ: for as he seeth his image and crucifix adored, so shall he set vp his owne image to be worshipped: and therefore as Christians now doe beare in their foreheads the signe of the Crosse which is Christs marke, so hee shall inuent an other marke contrary to Christs: and he will make his name and the letters thereof sacred, as now the name of Iesus is worshipped among Christians, Rhemist. Apocal. 13. sect. 7.

Answere: First, where haue you learned, that roodes and images are to be adored and worshipped? or doth not the word of God teach the plaine contra∣rie Psal. 115.8.9? O Israel trust in the Lord: but they that worship images are like vnto them: he therefore that trusteth in an image cannot trust in God. A∣gaine, where learne you to make an Idoll of the letters or sillables of Christs name, to cause men to carry it in their caps, and bow their knee vnto it? think Page  166 you that Saint Paul, when he sayth, that all thinges doe bowe the knee to the name of Iesus, yea of things in heauen, Philip. 2. that he meant, that euen the Angels doe stoup and make obeysance, when they see the name of Iesus writ∣ten in a glasse window? Or who taught you that the signe of the Crosse is to be borne vpon mens foreheades, and that with crossing of the forehead, we are preserued from daunger? Saynt Paul, you knowe, hath no such meaning, when he sayth, He bare in his bodie the markes of the Lorde Iesus, which were nothing else, but the signes and tokens of his persecutions, as whip∣pings, stoning, and such like in his flesh: Galath. 6.17. Neither, when he saith, He reioyced in nothing but the Crosse of Christ, whereby he was crucifi∣ed to the worlde, verse 14. hath he any relation to the Crosse in the forehead: for it were a myracle, that a man by crossing his forehead, should straight wayes crucifie and mortifie his affections: Nor yet did our Sauiour speake of this marke, where he saith, that they which will followe him, must take vp his crosse, Mark. 8.34. for in that place, by taking vp of the Crosse, he meaneth, nothing else but the forsaking and denying of our selues. So it is playne, that in the scripture you finde not this superstitious signe of the crosse in your foreheads.

2. Where you say, that you doe honour the character of Christ, as his name, and the signe of the Crosse: You doe euen so honour Christ, as the souldiers did, that gaue him a reede for a scepter, and thornes for a Crowne, and bowed themselues in mockage: So you do leaue Christ certaine badges and signes of his kingdome; but indeed you spoyle him of it, and of his Priest∣hood too, making other mediatours beside him, and other sacrifices propitiato∣rie beside his. What doe you else now, in bowing the knee to the name and sil∣lables of Iesus, and spoyling him of his honur, but with the souldiers in moc∣kage to bow vnto Christ? And I pray you, how doe you honour the name of Christ, when you make a iest of the name of Christian? for in Italie it is a worde of reproch, taken for an idiote or foole.

3. We answere, that the signe whereby Christians are marked, are not ex∣ternal, but internall: we are sealed by the spirite of God, Ephes. 4.30. The out∣ward signes are none other, but the two sacraments of Baptisme and the Lords supper: by the right administration wherof the congregations of the faythful are knowen. But of this, more shall be spoken in the Antithesis, or Antidotum, in the declaration of our opinion.

The Protestants.

BY the character or marke of Antichrist, we doe not vnderstand any visible signe or badge to be printed in the right hand or the forehead, as the Iesuite imagineth: as though he should brand all his subiects in the hand or forehead: But heereby is meant and signified chiefely the societie and communion, whereby they shalbe ioyned to Antichrist, by giuing vnto him their fidelitie, Page  167 oth, and obedience, agreeing together in the same corruption of fayth, and doctrine. This is Antichrists badge or cognisance. Fulk. Apocalip. 13. sect. 7. There are also outward markes of their coniuncton with Antichrist: as the sha∣uing of Priests, and greazing them with oyle: such are the receiuing of holie bread, the wearing of beades, the annoynting with chrisome: But the proper note and character, is the oth and profession of fealtie and obedience.

1. Antichrist say they, shall bring in another contrary character, to dis∣grace the signe and character of Christ, namely the crosse in the foreheads:* But Christ hath appoynted no such visible character, neither are true Christians knowen by any such: therefore also the character of Antichrist is no such thing.

1. The people of the Iewes had no such outward badge, who were more charged with outward obseruations, then Christians are: Circumcision was the onely signe of the couenant to them, Genes. 17.11. which was one of their chiefe sacraments, in place whereof Baptisme is enioyned vs: Ergo, much lesse are we to be knowen by any other outward badge.

2. This place Apocal. 13. is taken out of Ezech. 9. where the Angel is com∣maunded to set a marke vpon the foreheads of them that mourne: but that was no visible externall marke, for it was shewed the Prophet in vision: Ergo, nei∣ther is it to be taken so in this place.

3. We grant, the sacraments are badges and markes of our profession: which markes the Pope, the onely Antichrist hath defaced, by bringing in fiue other sacraments, and cleane changing, polluting and altering, the right sacra∣ments which Christ instituted: for they haue brought into baptisme, chrisme, salt, oyle, spittle, and such trash: into the Eucharist, adoration, transsubstantiatiō, sacrifice, with such like: so that herein he sheweth himselfe Antichrist, and hath altered the true markes of Religion.

2. It appeareth by the effect what is the Character of Antichrist:* The text saith, It was not lawfull for any to buy or sell, but he that had the marke or the name of the beast: No more was it lawfull for any to haue trafficke amongst the papists but hee that acknowledged the Popes crosse keyes, or made himselfe a member of the Romish Italian Church: Nay they say, he is not of the Church, that acknowledgeth not the Pope to be head of Christes Church, Fulk. Apo∣cal. 13. sect. 7.

The Iesuite obiecteth: First, this oth of fidelitie and coniunction cannot be that character: for it must be in the right hand or forehead. Answere, Wee haue already declared, that it is too childish to take these wordes literally, as though all Antichrists subiects should carie brandes in their foreheads or hands. Secondly, saith he, many do both buy & sell amongst them, that haue not made profession of their fealtie to Rome, as the Iewes, Bellarm. cap. 11. Answer: Yea no maruaile, for Antichrist is an enemie onely to Christ: al other people he can brook well enough beside good Christians: tell me I pray you, whether our merchants be admitted to traffick safely in Spaine, if their religion be knowen: Page  168 The seruants of God amongst you, can neither enioy, houses, lands, libertie or life: which yoke also was layd a long time vpon this land, till it pleased God to haue mercie on vs: for the which his name be blessed.

3. Againe, many yeares agoe, euen in Augustines and Ambrose his time, all Churches were ioyned to Rome, before Antichrist was yet reuealed. Ergo. This is not the Character of Antichrist. Bellarmin. ibid.

Answere: First, they were ioyned then in common consent of religion, not as subiects by compulsion, but voluntarie, because at that time Rome in the chiefest poynts of Religion was in the right fayth. 2. But of late dayes in the Councel of Constance not yet 2. hundred yeares agoe, it was made an article of faith, to beleeue, that the Pope was the head of the Vniuersal Church: yea a∣bout the yeare 600. the title of Vniuersal Bishop first began to be appropri∣ate to Rome: whereby was insinuated, that all Churches in the world should be vnder the obedience thereof.

Lastly, we haue the testimonie of one of their Popes themselues, who saith plainly,* that hee is the forerunner of Antichrist, which would bee called Vniuersall Bishop. lib. 4. epistol. 32. See then by his testimony, the title of Vni∣uersality, and exacting of obedience of other Churches, is the character & marke of Antichrist.

THE FOVRTH PART, CONCERNING the generation and original of Antichrist.
The Papists.

[error 60] THey doe reiect those olde fancies concerning Antichrist, as that hee should be borne of a Virgin by helpe of the diuel, that hee should haue the diuell to his father: that he should be a diuell incarnate: or that hee should bee Nero, raysed from the dead. Refusing these fables, they haue found out one as foolish: Our Rhemists holde, that Antichrist shalbe borne of the tribe of Dan. Bellarm. dare not say so, but he thinketh that he shall come of the Iewes stock, and be circumcised, and be taken of the Iewes for their Messiah. cap. 12.

1. That he shall come of the tribe of Dan: thus they would prooue it, Genes. 49.17. Dan shalbe a serpent by the way biting the horse heeles: Ierem. 8.16. The neying of his horses is heard from Dan. And Apocal. 7. where 12. thousand of euery tribe are reckoned, onely Dan is left out, because (belike) An∣tichrist should come of that tribe. Rhemist. 2. Thess. 2. sect. 8.

Answere: Bellarmine confuteth all these reasons: the first hee saith with Hierome to be vnderstood of Sampson, who came of the tribe of Dan: the second place is of Nabuchadnezzers comming to destroy Ierusalem, as Hierome also expoundeth it: to the third he sayth, that Ephraim is left out as well as Dan: yea and so is Manassh too: because the tribe of Ioseph is named for his two sonnes: but Dan is left out because Leui is reckoned in his place. Wee may see now, Page  169 how well they agree, when one Iesuite confuteth another. Bellarmin. cap. 12.

2. Bellarmine standeth much vpon that place, Iohn 5.43. If an other come in his name, him will ye receiue: But sayth he, the Iewes will receiue none, but of their owne kinred, and whom they looke for to be their Messiah. Ergo. Antichrist must come of the Iewes. ibd.

Answere: This place we haue shewed before, part 1. of this question, to be vnderstood of false prophets amongst the Iewes, such as mention is made of Act. 5. as Theudas and Iudas, and not of any one false prophet: so Iohn 10. where Christ compareth himselfe, which is the true shepheard, with the hire∣ling, he vnderstandeth all hirelings, though he speake in the singular number.

The Protestantes.

THat it is a very fable and cousoning deuice of heretikes, to make men be∣leeue that Antichrist shall come of the tribe of Dan, or of the stock of the Iewes, thus we shew it.

1. It is out of doubt, that the nation of the Iewes shall bee conuerted vnto God, and mercy shalbe shewed againe to the remnant of Israel, Rom. 11.25. confessed also by the papists: But if one come, which shall reedifie the tem∣ple, and restore the sacrifices and circumcision, such an one, as the Iewes shall take for their Messiah: who seeth not, that by this meanes the Iewes will bee more hardned, hauing now their owne hearts desire, their temple; Messiah, cir∣cumcision: and their conuersion would be greatly hindred, nay quite and clean ouerthrowen?

2. If Antichrist should come of the Iewes, it is like that his seate should bee at Ierusalem, and that the temple shall be built agayne by him: but that cannot be, for the temple, as Daniel prophesieth, shall lie desolate euen vnto the ende, Dani. 9.27. Ergo. he shall not come of the Iewes. More of this in the next parte.

THE FIFT PART CONCERNING THE seate and place of Antichrist.
The Papists.

BEllarmine holdeth opinion, that Antichrist shall haue his imperiall seate at Ierusalem, and reedifie and build againe the temple, yea for a while com∣maund [error 61] circumcision to be vsed and obserued, Bellarm. cap. 13. lib. 3. de pontif. Rhemist, 2. Thessa. 2. sect. 11.

1. Apocal. 11.8. the Citie of Antichrist is called the great Citie where our Lord was crucified. But Christ was crucified at Ierusalem. Ergo.

Answere: First, it cannot be so vnderstood, for ver. 2. Ierusalem is called the holy Citie. ver. 8. This great Citie is called Sodome and Aegypt: how can the same Citie be capable of such contrary names? How can that be called an holy Citie, where the abomination of desolation shall be and the seate of Antichrist?

Page  170Secondly, Augustine in Apocal. homil. 8. vnderstandeth by the great Citie and the streetes thereof, the middest of the Church: And by the great citie verie fitly is vnderstood the large iurisdiction of the Pope, who sayth, hee is head of the great citie and Catholike Church: Whose seate we see is at Rome, by authoritie of which citie Christ was put to death: and by Antichrist the Pope, Christ also is persecuted in his members. Fulk. annotat. Apocalyps. 11. sect. 2.

2. Apocalips. 17.16. the tenne hornes, that is, tenne kings, amongst whom the Romane Empire shall bee deuided, shall hate the scarlet whore, that is, Rome, and burne it with fire: how then shall it bee the seate of Antichrist? Bellarm.

Answere: The text is plaine, that the same kingdomes, that before had gi∣uen their power to the beast, and were subiect to the whore of Babilon, shall after make her desolate, and eate her flesh: which thing we see in part to be accomplished already, that many princes haue redeemed their necks from Antichrist his yoke, Fulk. Apocal. 17. sect. 3. It is not necessary therefore to bee done all at one time, but one after another.

3. 2. Thessal. 2. he shall sit in the temple of God: but at that time the Iewes onely had a temple, the Christians yet had none, and the Apostle speaking of the Church of God, did of purpose refrayne this name, lest the Church of Christians should be thought like the Iewes Synagogue. Bellarm.

Answere: First, the Iewish temple shall not be built againe, as Daniel pro∣phesieth, 9.27. and how can it be built in so short a space, seeing Antichrist, as they say, must raigne but three yeeres and an halfe? and to what purpose, seeing he will abolish all sacrifices? Secondly, though it should be built againe, nay if it were standing now, for the exercise of Iewish sacrifices, it could not be cal∣led the temple of God. Thirdly, by the temple therefore is meant the visible Church, that which sometime was a true visible one, as the Church of Rome, and after should be so taken, reputed and challenged, as it is at this day by the papists: Neyther haue the papists hereby any aduantage, as though the Pope sate in the very true Church: for it is not the true Church indeede, but so repu∣ted and taken by them. Fourthly, though there were no materiall temples of the Christians in Pauls time, what of that? hee speaketh not here of any such materiall temple, but of the Church of God, neither doth Saint Paul in this sense refuse to vse the name of temple, as 1. Corinthian. 3. vers. 16. and 6. vers. 19. and in other places.

The Protestants.

THat Rome is the seate and place of Antichrist, beside that the Rhemists confesse so much that Antichrist shall raigne there, annot. Apocal. 17. sect. 4. We prooue it thus.

Page  1711. Antichrist is called the great whore of Babilon, Apocal. 17.5. But Babi∣lon is Rome, Ergo, Rome is the seat of Antichrist.

Obiect: It was Babilon, while it was gouerned and ruled by heathen Em∣perors, but the Church was not then called Babilon, Bellarm. Answere: First, Ergo by your owne confession, Rome shall be the seat of Antichrist, seeing by Saint Iohn it was called Babilon. Secondly, it was not onely called Babilon in the time of the heathen, but euen of Christian Emperors: Augustine saith, it is Occidentalis Babïlon, the Babilon in the west partes,*& prioris filia Ba∣bilonis, and daughter to the first Babilon. Thirdly, Saint Iohn doth not onely prophesie of the crueltie of the terrene state, but of the false prophet Antichrist, you should also vsurpe an ecclesiasticall gouernment there.

Obiect. Secondly, they obiect that by the damnation of the great whore, is vnderstoode the finall destruction of all the company of the reprobate, Rhemist. Apocal. 17.1. Answere, the damnation vniuersally of the wicked is de∣scribed cap. 20. and therefore this place must be vnderstoode of Antichrist, and his adherents: And very fitly doth the name of whore agree to that See, for once a whore indeede was Pope there, called Iohn the eighth. Which so wringeth the Papists, that they haue no other shifte but impudently to de∣nie it.

2. Wee haue another argument out of the same chapter, vers. 9. the se∣uen heades are seuen mountaines, on which the woman sitteth: But there is no citie in the world notoriously knowen to stand vpon seuen hils but Rome: Ergo, it is the seate of Antichrist.

Obiect. The text is, they are also seuen kings, so the seuen heades or seuen hils signifie seuen kings: for there shall bee so many chiefe Empires which shall persecute the Church, there are fiue part: Aegypt, Canaan, Ba∣bilon, the Persians, Grecians, the sixt, the Romanes, which in parte standeth yet, the seuenth shall be Antichrist, Rhemist. Apocalip. 17. sect. 7.

Answere: First, the seuen heads are expounded to be both seuen hils and se∣uen kings: the scripture vseth not to expound one harde and obscure thing by an harder and more obscure, as to say, seuen heads are seuen mountains, that is, seuen kinges: for wee were neerer the sense before: and the terme of heads doth more fitly resemble kinges, then mountaines. Secondly, the seuen kinges are more fitly taken for seuen principall gouernours of the Ro∣manes, as Kings, Tribunes, Consuls, Decemviri, Dictators, Emperours, Popes: for by these seuen orders hath the common wealth beene gouerned first and last. Fulk. ibid.

Obiect. Rome is not now built vpon seuen hilles, it standeth in the playne in Campo Martio, Sander. ibid.

Answere: First, you haue then no right to Peters Chayre, for when hee sate at Rome, the Citie stoode vppon seuen hils. Secondly, though the Pope nowe hath remooued his pallace to the Vaticane, on the other Page  172 side of the riuer, yet he did sit for many yeares in Laterane, vntill the time of Pope Nicholas the second, who was almost 1100. yeeres after Christ. Thirdly, though the Pope hath remooued his pallace vpon pleasure beyond the riuer: yet his See is not remoued: for vpon euery one of those hils there are Monaste∣ries, and chapples, and such like monuments to be seene to this day. In mount Caelius there is the Monasterie of Gregorie the first, the Cathedral Church of Laterane. In mount Auentine, the Monasteries of Sabie and Boniface. In the mount Exquilinus the Minster of S. Maria maior, the ruines of Saint Cyriacus Church, which is yet a title of a Cardinal. The mount Viminalis hath the Church of Saint Laurence. The mount Capitoline hath an house of friers, called Ara coeli. The mount Palatine the Church of Saint Nicholas. The mount Quirina∣lis hath S. Maria de populo. Wherefore though the Popes person be remooued a little aside, yet the popish religion is exercised, and reliques of superstition are to be found in euery one of those hils. Wherefore we nothing doubt to con∣clude, but that Rome is that Citie vpon 7. hils, and so the principal seate of Antichrist.

THE SIXT PART CONCERNING THE doctrine of Antichrist.
The Papists.

[error 62] THeir opinion is, that Antichrist shalbe an open and manifest aduersarie to Christ, and that he shall abolish all worship of God, and all religion. Rhe∣mist. annot. 2. Thess. 2. sect. 10. Bellarmine draweth all the doctrine of Antichrist, to these foure heads. First, he shall denie Iesus to be Christ, and abolish the sa∣craments instituted by Christ. Secondly, he shal make himselfe Christ. Thirdly, he shall make himselfe God, and be adored as God. Fourthly, he shall abolish al other worship, both true and false, yea the worship of Idols. Wherefore, sayth he, the Pope cannot be Antichrist, that doth none of these things, cap. 14. of these now in their order.

*1. Antichrist shall vtterly denie Christ. 1. Iohn 2.22. & 4.3. Euerie spirite that confesseth not, that Iesus Christ is come in the flesh, is not of God, this is the spirite of Antichrist. Ergo, Antichrist shall altogether denie Christ.

Answere: First the Rhemists say that this is not a marke for all times, to know an heretike by, but it was onely for those times, to confesse Christ to bee come in the flesh: this is a surer note now, say they, that whoso confesseth not Christ to be really present, and to be sacrificed in the masse, is not of God. Rhe∣mist. annot. 1. Iohn 4. sect. 2.* Where I will not stand to note the presumption of these papists, that will correct and amend the Apostles rule, to know here∣tikes by, which serueth for all times, and so Augustine taketh it. But here first I oppose our Rhemists iudgement against Bellarmine: for they denie that this place serueth to describe Antichrist, belonging onely to the Apostles times: Bellarmine saith, it doth most properly decipher Antichrist.

Page  1732. The great Antichrist shall denie Christ no otherwise then other An∣tichrists and heretikes did in the Apostles time: for they are all Antichrists 1. Iohn 2.18. and he giueth one rule to know them all by, vers. 22. But the An∣tichrists then denyed not Christ apertly, but couertly, Ergo, so shall the great Antichrist.

The first is true, that the olde heretikes did not plainly denie Christ to bee come in the flesh: but some denied his humanitie, some his diuinitie, some his person. Augustine sayth, Arriani hoc negant, licet verbis fateātur, the Arrians deny that Christ is come in the flesh, though they confesse it in word: for he that doth not confesse that Christ is equall vnto God, denieth Christ in the flesh: and so of other heretikes. The second also is as true: that Antichrist, who is no other but the Pope, shall also cunningly and couertly denie Christ, for he that denieth the offices of Christ, denieth Christ: As Augustine sayth of Peters deniall, Quic∣quid eius negauit, ipsum negauit. Tract. in Iohann. 66. whatsoeuer hee denyed of or belonging to Christ, he denied Christ. So the Pope denieth Christ to bee our Prophet, King, and Priest: His propheticall office he defaceth, and in effect denieth, in disgracing the scriptures, saying, they are imperfect, and conteine not all matters necessary to saluation, that their authoritie bindeth vs not without his allowance: His Kingly office, in making himselfe Christs Vicar and Vicegerent vpon earth, in making new lawes, sacraments, ordi∣nances beside Christs, as necessarie to saluation as the rules of the Gospell: His priesthoode, in setting vp a new propitiatorie sacrifice in the abominable Masse, beside the onely sacrifice of attonement vpon the Crosse, in making other mediators and intercessors beside Christ: and such like, whereof wee shall haue occasion to entreat afterward more at large. Ergo, the Pope in denying the offices of Christ, denieth Christ, and so is Antichrist.

2. Hee shall make himselfe Christ and Messiah,* which the Iesuite would prooue out of Iohn 5. ver. 43. If another come in his name, him will yee re∣ceiue: But the Pope commeth not in his owne name, but in the name of Christ, hee calleth himselfe Christs Vicar. Ergo hee can not bee Antichrist, Bellarm.

Answere: First, It is not necessarie that Antichrist should openly pro∣fesse himselfe to be Christ, in name, but he shall doe it, opere, indeede, and that closely and couertly: for those whom Christ calleth, pseudochristos, false Christs, Matth. 24.23. Iohn calleth Antichristos, Antichrists, 1. Iohn. 2.18. False prophets therefore are false Christs, & Antichrists: yet all those false pro∣phets and heretikes did not in name and outward profession make themselues Christs.

2. The Pope of Rome in effect maketh himselfe Christ: for who but Christ is the head of the Church? who but Christ is superiour to the Angels, and to commaund them? who but Christ can make sacraments and articles of fayth? But all this the Pope taketh vpon himselfe to doe: yea the Iesu∣ite is not ashamed to say, that he hath the same office which Christ had be∣ing Page  174 vpon earth, lib. 5. de pontif. cap. 4. And whereas they say, the Pope com∣meth in the name of Christ: it shall as much profite him (it being not in trueth▪ but in colour onely and shew) as it shall profite the false prophets to say in the day of the Lorde, Haue not wee in thy name prophecied, and cast out diuels? Matth. 7.22.23. to whome Christ shall make answere, Ve∣rily I know you not.

3. Antichrist shall openly name himselfe God, and commaund men to worship him as God,* 2. Thessal. 2.4. But this doth not the Pope: Ergo, hee is not Antichrist, Bellarm.

Answere: First, If Antichrist should be such an one, you might haue found amongst the Emperors of Rome diuers Antichrists: for such an one Caligula was, that commaunded temples to be erected in his name, and his images to be set vp to be worshipped, yea in the temple at Ierusalem.

2. Saint Pauls wordes will not beare any such sence: he shall sitte, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, as God: and your vulgar Latine hath ostendens se, tanquam sit Deus, shewing himselfe as though he were God, that is, in deede and effect, not in open pro∣fession: for hee should sit and be worshipped in the temple as God: howe then can it bee called the temple of God, being thus a temple of most grosse Idolatrie?

3. The Pope in effect maketh himselfe a god vpon earth: for he can dis∣pence against the law of nature, the law of GOD, agaynst both new and olde testament: as we haue shewed before, quest. 9. of this Controuersie▪ yea Bellarmine sayth, he may by his Apostolike authoritie dispence with the pre∣cepts of the Apostles cap. 14. He is able to change the nature of things, and of nothing to make thinges to bee, of wrong to make iustice, &c. Pope Nicholaus distinct. 96. yea it is sayd of the Pope, that hee is neither GOD nor man,* but a middle thing betweene both: Pope Boniface. I pray you then what is he? he is no Angel, for he is aboue them, and commaundeth them: Papa Angelis praecipit,* the Pope commaundeth Angels. He must then either be a God or a diuell, by your owne confession, choose which you will: Nay they doe make him a playne God: Es alter Deus in terris, an other God vp∣on earth: and they salute him by these names, Dominus deus noster Papa, our Lord god the Pope. Thus it is proued, that the Pope, both by his deedes as also by his titles, doth make himselfe god vpon earth.

4. Antichrist say they, shall take away all worship yea of Idols, and shall commaund nothing to be worshipped but himselfe,* 2. Thessal. 2.4. the worde is 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, numina, all things that are worshipped. But so doth not the Pope, for he prayeth to Saints, adoreth the bodie of Christ on the altar. Ergo. Bellarm. cap. 14. Rhemist. 2. Thess. 2. sect. 10.

Answere: First, the text prooueth not, that hee shall take away, all Idols, or thinges worshipped, but shall exalt himselfe agaynst them, and make smal account of them. The place also of Daniel is playne,

11.37. Hee shall not regarde the God of his fathers, nor care for any God, but shall magnifie Page  175 himselfe aboue all: And in his place shall he honour the God Mauzzim, and the God which his fathers knew not, shall hee honour, with golde and siluer.
Out of this place we gather two thinges: first, that Antichrist shall bring in a strange God, which his fathers neuer knew: so hath the Pope inuented a breaden God, which he honoureth with golde and precious stones, making more account of it, then of any image or relique whatsoeuer.

Secondly, yet he shal magnifie himself aboue all such Gods, Images, Roodes, shrines and the like▪ yea aboue his owne breaden God: so doth the Pope: for he rideth vpon mens shoulders, when his breaden God is caried vpon an hackney: he exalteth his throne aboue the altar, the Crosse is caried on the right hand of Emperours swordes and scepters, but is layd vnder his feete: In the yeare of Iubile, he beateth vpon the gates of Paradise with a golden ham∣mer: Fulk. annot. 2. Thesse. 2.10. so then howsoeuer like an hypocrite he seeme to adore his breaden God, yet indeede dooth hee magnifie himselfe aboue it.

Bellarmine hath no other shiftes to foyst off our arguments, but these: hee sayth, this Mauzzim, is like enough to be the diuell himselfe, whom Antichrist shall worship: but he careth neither for siluer or golde: or else it is himselfe. And how I pray you can a man worship himselfe? or else, saith hee, it is some strong castle where he shall lay his siluer and golde: or else you know not what, Bellarmin. 14.

2 That Antichrist shall not abolish Idoles of siluer and golde, but rather commaund the people to worship them, as the Pope now doth, it is playne, Apocalyps. 9.20.

The Rhemists obiect, that hee speaketh here agaynst the heathen Idols, which is here called the worship of diuels. Answere: First, in this place Iohn speaketh of the ende of the worlde, in the opening of the seuenth seale: and the Idols of the heathē were abolished long agoe: Neither is there any knowen nation in the worlde that hath worshipped Idols of golde, siluer, brasse, stone, or wood, but the papists, for these many yeares. Secondly, all worshippers of Images, doe worship diuels: for Idolatrie is a seruice inuented by the diuell, Fulk. annot. Apoc. 9. sect. 4.

The Protestants.

THat Antichrist shall not in outward shew be an open enemie to Christ, but secretly and closely, and vnder pretence of religion take away all religi∣on: thus we make it playne.

1 These places alleadged before doe prooue it: Iohn. 1.2.18. the An∣tichrist, and the Antichristes, shall bee enimies all alike, but the Anti∣chrstes in Saint Iohns time, were couert enemies. Ergo, so shall the great An∣tichrist.

Page  1762. Saint Paul calleth it the mystery of iniquitie, 2. Thess. 2.7. and he shal come in all deceiueablenesse of vnrighteousnesse, vers. 10. and God shall send them strong delusion, to beleeue lies, vers. 11. All this prooueth that Antichrist shal worke closely, cunningly, mystically, by deceiuing, by delusion, not by open enimitie, and prophanenes, or by violence and tyrannie onely, as the papists imagine.

3 Antichrist shall be the greatest enemie to Christ, and his kingdome, that euer was in the worlde. But hee is a greater enemie that pretendeth friendship, and yet is a foe, that vnder the name of Christ persecuteth the Chri∣stian fayth, then he that openly destroyeth it, making no shewe of Religion: as Dauid complayneth, Psalm. 41.9.

Yea my familiar friend whom I trusted, which did eate of my bread, hath lift vp his heele against me
: This was accom∣plished in Iudas, who betrayed Christ with a kisse, who was the greatest enemie of Christ, sinning against his owne knowledge and conscience: Euen so they now a dayes, are the greatest enemies that Christ and the Church hath, that betray Christ with a kisse, which name themselues the Church of God, and yet make hauock of the Church.

4. Lastly, Augustine sayth as much, that Antichrist shall come with de∣ceiueable doctrine, and shew of righteousnes. Quid expaescimus in Anti∣christo, nisi quia nomen suum honoraturus est, & Domini contempturus▪ Quid aliud facit,*qui dicit, ego iustifico? Quid aliud est dei ignorare iustitiam, & suam velle constituere, quam dicere, ego iustifico, ego sanctifico? What other thing doe wee feare in Antichrist, but that hee shall honour his owne name, and contemne Christs? What else doth he, which sayth, I doe iustifie, I make holie? What is this but to destroy the righteousnesse of God, and to bring in his owne?

Marke nowe I pray you, if all this bee not true of the Pope of Rome: for hee taketh vpon him to iustifie, to sanctifie, to dispense with mens sins for an hundred, yea a thousand yeeres: to ridde soules out of Purgatorie: nay to commaund Angels to carrie their soules to heauen, that die in their Pilgrimage to Rome, as Pope Clement the sixt did: what is this▪ else but to saie,*Ego iustifico, sanctifico, I iustifie, I sanctifie? and who I pray you, doth so, if Augustine may be iudge, but Antichrist? but thus the Pope doth. Ergo he is Antichrist.

THE SEVENTH PART CONCERNING the miracles of Antichrist.
The Papists.

ANtichrist, they say, shall be a Magitian, and worke straunge signes and [error 63] wonders by the power of the diuell: and these three miracles by name Page  177 shall bee wrought by him: Hee shall cause fire to come from heauen, and make the Image of the beast to speake; and thirdly, hee shall faine himselfe dead and rise agayne, Bellarm. cap. 15.

1. He shall by the helpe of the diuell cause fire to come downe from hea∣uen, as it is Apocal. 13.13.

Answere: First, it is a great question whether the diuell haue any such power to bring downe fire from heauen: for the Iesuite himselfe remem∣breth the storie 1. King. 18. How Baal his priests would haue fetched down fire from heauen, but they could not: onely Elias did it: and he that will doe the like, must haue Elias his spirite, as Christ sayth, Luke 9.55.

2. It is very grosse to vnderstand this literally: for the whole chapter is mysticall, of the Beast with seuen heads, of another beast with two hornes, and all the rest. But three waies Antichrist may fitly bee sayde to bring fire from heauen: First, by fire the holy Ghost may be vnderstoode, as Matth. 3. and Act. 2. The spirite appeared in fierie tongues: so Antichrist and his mini∣sters make men beleeue, that they doe conferre the holy Ghost, as in conse∣cration, in absolution of sinners, and such like. Secondly, the Popes thunder∣bolts of excommunication, are resembled to fier, whereby he hath made the whole world afrayde in times past, as though he could cause the heauens to fall vpon men: yea, to make the matter more likely, the Pope vseth burning Tapers in excommunicating men, which with violence are throwen downe as though GOD himselfe did rayne fire from heauen vpon them. And this is the terri∣ble manner of their excommunication: there are three candles burning set vp:* and then they begin to accurse them, whom they excommunicate, bodie and soule to the diuell: and let vs, say they, quench their soules in hell fire, if they be dead, as this candle is put out (and with that they put out one of the can∣dles) If they be aliue, let vs pray, that their eyes may be put out, as this candle is, and so the second candle goeth out, and that all their sences may fayle them, as this candle looseth his light, and so the third candle goeth out. Be∣holde, here is the fire which the Pope and his popelings doe bring from heauen. Sic Bullinger. serm▪ 60. in Apocalips. Thirdly, the Dragon is sayd, Apocalips. 12.4. with his tayle to drawe many starres from heauen: that is, many excel∣lent men, as starres in giftes and knowledge, shall bee deceiued by the Pope, and be wonne vnto him: yea the Pope himselfe is a Starre fallen from heauen to the earth, from heauenly doctrine to earthly tradition, Apocalips. 9.1. thus Antichrist also may be sayd to fetch fire from heauen.

2. The second miracle, hee shall cause the Image of the beast to speake, which the Iesuite vnderstandeth literally, that is, grossely.

Answere: First, Bellarmine and our Iesuites doe not here agree: for Bellar∣mine sayth, that these two miracles shall be wrought by Antichrist himselfe, to fetch fire from heauen: and to cause the Image to speake: But the Rhe∣mists saye, this other beast, is another false Prophet, inferiour to Antichrist, which shall also worke wonders, such an one as Caluine, say they: where Page  178 they shew their malice, more then learning, for Caluine, they know, tooke not vpon him to worke myracles, annot. Apocal. 13. sect. 3.

2 This causing the image to speake hath a better meaning: The image of the beast is the shadow of the olde stately Empire of Rome, which was e∣rected by the Pope: for the west partes wanted an Emperour the space of three hundred yeeres from Augustulus time till Pope Leo the third, who made Charles the great king of France,* Emperour: And at this day is there nothing in the Empire, but onely a name, title and image: for neither hath the Empe∣rour the Imperiall authoritie, which is in the Pope, nor the Imperiall king∣domes, vnlesse he haue them of his owne. And the Pope onely maketh this I∣mage to speake, for vnlesse he doe confirme the election of the king of the Ro∣manes, he is not thought worthy the name of Emperour. Bullinger. ibid.

3 And yet we denie not, but that they both haue and may make images speake either by the helpe of the diuell, as Dunstane caused a roode to speake, or by iugling, as the Roode of grace by gimmals was made to roule the eyes, mooue the lippes and such like, in king Henries dayes.

3 The third myracle that Antichrist shall work, is to fayne himselfe dead, and to rise againe, Apocalyps. 13.3.

Answere: There can bee no such thing gathered out of the text: First, the wordes will not beare it: the text is, that one of the heads was wounded to death, and the wound was healed: which cannot be so meant, as though hee fayned himselfe dead: but he receiued a wound indeede.

2 The sence is mysticall, as thorough the whole chapter: First, it is sayd, that the seuenth head was wounded to death: but reuiued agayne: that is, the seuenth gouernement of the Romanes in the Popedome: for the papacie had many times deadly blowes, and yet was healed agayne: especially when there were three Popes together, at Rome, in France, and the third in Spaine: but this wound was cunningly healed vp in Pope Martin the fift, in the Coun∣cell of Constance, the other three beeing deposed. Sic Bullinger Serm. 59. Secondly, it is said vers. 14. that the beast whose image remained, had the wound of a sworde, and yet liued: which is vnderstoode of the Romane Em∣pire, reuiued and quickned by the Pope.

The Protestants.

IT is true that Antichrist shall worke signes and wonders by the power of Sathan, 2. Thessal. 2. but lying signes, both because they shall bee done to confirme lyes, neither shall they bee such as the Prophets wrought, but many of them but cunning and cousening sleights of iuglers. And for such wonders wee neede not to search farre, the Popish Church is full of them▪ Where else then should wee looke for Antichrist?

1 There haue beene of the Popes themselues▪ Sorcerers and Coniurers, Page  179 such an one Antichrist shall bee, sayth Bellarmine. Siluester the second came vp to the papacie by the helpe of the diuell, as wee haue before she∣wed. Gregorie the seuenth was condemned in the Councell of Brixia for a Coniurer: And Benno a Cardinall in those dayes thus writeth of him: that on a time hee sending two of his seruants for a certaine Sathanicall booke, charging them not to looke into it: they notwithstanding looked into it, and presently a great multitude of diuelish spirites were round about them: who were instant vpon them to knowe why they were called for: the ser∣uants beeing at the first astonished, yet comming to themselues, enioyned them to plucke downe certayne high walles neere to Rome: and so they came to their master, Fox. page 176. What other Antichrist now neede wee looke for? If hee must bee a Coniurer, wee may heere make our choyce.

2 Wee are not ignorant, what lyes and fables are reported by the pa∣pists of the myraculous actes of their popish Saints, of the which wee haue spoken before: As howe Dunstane appeared to a cripple, that came to his Tombe to bee helped of his lamenesse: How Plegildus a priest sawe and handled the shape of a childe vpon the alta, which after hee had kissed re∣turned agayne to the likenesse of bread. How a certaine Iewes boy tolde his father that hee saw a childe broken in peeces vpon the altar and distri∣buted among the Christians: and the boy for that,* was cast into a furnace of fire, and was preserued from the fire by the Virgin Marie, which appea∣red to him, and spred her garment ouer him. Many such either lyes and fables, or workes of diuels the popish Church hath many: What neede wee therefore doubt, but that it is the Antichristian Church?

3 Augustine sayth, Saint Paul calleth them lying wonders, either be∣cause Antichrist shall deceiue men per phantasmata, with iugling sleights, or because, ad mendacia per trahet credituros,* by his wonders he shall make them beleeue lies. But in which sense they are so called, it shall appeare when Antichrist is come sayth hee: and indeede it is now apparant; for our aduer∣saries haue plenty of both kindes, both myracles wrought indeede by the diuell, and many prety iugling feates beside.

THE EIGHTH PARTE OF THE QVE∣stion, concerning the warres, and king∣dome of Antichrist.
The Papists.

BEllarmine sayth, that Antichrist shall make great battayles agaynst the [error 64] Saynts, and shall conquere the whole worlde: first by crafte he shall as∣pire to the kingdome of the Iewes: secondly he shall fight with three kings of Page  180Lybia, Aegypt, Aethiopia. Thirdly, with a great armie he shall persecute the Christians throughout the world, and this shall be the battaile of Gog and Ma∣gog, Bellarm. cap. 16.

1 That he shall craftily aspire to the kingdome, he proueth it out of Daniel, 11.21. where it is prophecied of one that he shall obtayne the kingdome by flatteries.

Ans. This prophecie of Daniel, as likewise the whole chapter, was historically accomplished in Antiochus Epiphanes, who defrauded Seleucus his brothers sonne of the kingdome, and circumuented his elder brother Demetrius: so that it being once fulfilled, it cannot be wrested to any other sense: of Antichrist it cannot be ment; for here is a succession of Kings described, vers. 19. One is sayd to be ouerthrowne, that is, Seleucus, but not in battaile, for he was poysoned, vers. 18. There another is sayd to bee ouerthrowne and to be no more found, that is, Antiochus magnus. But Antichrist cannot succeede any in the kingdome of the Iewes: for he shall be their first King, as the Papists imagine.

2 He shall (sayth Bellarmine) ouercome three kings, of Lybia, Aegypt, Ae∣thiopia, Dan. 11.43. and this horne shall remoue three other hornes, Dan. 7.8.

Ans. This also must needes be vnderstood of Antiochus Epiphanes: and they are two prophecies. First, he is called a little horne, because he was not heire to the kingdome: he remoueth three other hornes: for by his meanes Ptolemaeus Philopater was cast out of the kingdome in his fathers time Antiochus the great: his brother Seleucus poysoned, his sonne Demetrius disinherited, Tremell. Dan. 7.20. The second prophecie was also accomplished by Antiochus, who ouer∣came Aegypt, and the countreys adioyning.

Of Antichrist it cannot bee vnderstood: for the first prophecie speaketh of a beast with ten hornes, which must be vnderstood of one kingdome & monarch, and by the ten hornes ten Kings are signified: for so was Antiochus Epiphanes the tenth from Seleucus: here then is a succession of Kings: but Antichrist shall not succeede any.

3 The Iesuite saith, that Antichrist with a great armie shall vexe the whole world, and that shalbe the battaile of Gog and Magog prophecied of Ezech. 38.39. & Apocal. 20.

Ans. The prophecie of Ezechiel was fulfilled in the time of the Macchabees, when as Gog and Magog, that is Antiochus, with the helpe of the Syrians and Scythians and other countreys, molested the people of God: for vers. 23. chap. 39. the Prophet speaketh of the captiuitie of Israel, from the which they should at that time bee deliuered. And agayne, the Lord would not leaue his Church, which at that time endured great afflictions at the hands of the heathen, com∣fortlesse: but if these prophecies of Ezechiel and Daniel concerne them not, then small had been their comfort. Lastly, the Iewes may with as good reason vnderstand the prophecies concerning Christ, of their Messiah, whom they yet looke for, as you may these prophecies concerning the enemies of the Church, of your Antichrist.

Page  181The other prophecie also is fulfilled, Apocal. 20.8. how Gog and Magog from the foure corners of the earth, shall compasse the tents of the Saints: for by Gog and Magog, is vnderstood the whole multitude of the enemies of the Church both within and without, as Turkes, Papists, Infidels, which all haue agreed to∣gether at times and in their turnes, though enemies amongst themselues, to af∣flict the people of God, Fulk. annot. in hunc locum.

And if you will needes also haue the other two prophecies fulfilled a∣gayne, being once before accomplished: they agree fitly to the Turkish Em∣pire: for Mahomet by craft and subtiltie aspired to a kingdome, and in short time he ouerranne Aegypt and Lybia, with other parts of Africa.

The Protestants.

WE denye that there shall come any such Antichrist: or that it is possible for him to wage battaile with the whole earth. We graunt that the Anti∣christ of Rome hath warred with the Church, poysoning it with corrupt doc∣trine, and persecuting the same by fire and sword: which his rage is well slaked now, God be praised, in many places, and his tyrannie ouerpast: miserable were the state of the Church if it should endure such a brunt agayne.

1 It is impossible that Antichrist in so short a time as three yeeres and an halfe, should conquer all nations, and be Monarch of the whole world, burne & sacke Rome, and driue out the Pope, as the Papists graunt themselues, Bellarm. lib. 4. cap. 3. de pontifice. A man cannot in that space trauale through the whole world, much lesse conquer it.

And seeing Antichrist shall begin at Ierusalem, make his habitation there, and haue an end there: (for (say they) he shall be slayne in Mount Oliuet, Gloss. sup. Apocal:) It is not like that in his owne person he should conquer the world: neither can it be thought that he shall do it by his deputies, for then they should be the Antichrists and not he. See what a Labyrinth you are fallen into, out of the which you cannot wind yourselues.

2 Antichrist is not described in scripture as a warriour, or warlike man sit∣ting harnessed in his tent, but like an hypocrite aduācing himself in the temple; not comming with engins of warre, but deluding and deceiuing with false mi∣racles, and lying signes, 2. Thessal. 2. Not with Harolds of armes openly procla∣ming warre: but he shall worke in a mysterie, Apocal. 17.5. Wherefore it is but a popish dreame and fancie, that Antichrist shall be such a mightie warriour: yet we denye not but that diuers of the Popes haue been warriours, but that was beyond the commission of Peters crosse keyes.

3 Lastly, they haue no ground of this their opinion out of scripture: for nei∣ther Ezechiel nor Daniel maketh for them, prophecying of the state of the Church before Christ: nor yet the Apocalypse, the prophecie of Gog and Magog being accomplished in the greatest part alreadie: Wherefore away with these mistie clowdes of your brainsicke inuentions: they shall not bee able to abide the lightsome sun-beames of the truth.

Page  182
THE NINTH AND LAST PART OF THIS question, whether the Pope be Antichrist.
The Papists.

THis question pincheth our aduersaries very sore, that wee should touch their [error 65] head so neere, as to make him Antichrist. For this being once knowne, wee neede not labour much about other matters: for Antichrist with all his doctrine must not be heard, but abhorred of the Church.

They therefore, craftily foreseeing this, doe take great paynes to deliuer the Pope out of this danger, and haue found out many starting holes, but all to smal purpose: yea their forefathers seeing the matter so playne, and almost put out of doubt,* gaue straight charge in the late Councel of Laterane to all preachers, that none should dare once to speake of the comming of Antichrist. This ar∣gueth a guiltie conscience. But yet they face out the matter, and say, the Pope cannot be Antichrist: their arguments are none other then those we haue heard, being eight in number.

1 Antichrist shall be one singular man: the Popes haue been many, part. 1. of this question. Secondly, he shall raigne but three yeeres and an halfe: but the Pope hath continued many hundred yeeres, part. 2. Thirdly, he shalbe knowne by his name: the Popes haue sundrie names, part. 3. Fourthly, he must come of the stocke of the Iewes: but there was neuer yet any Iewe Pope, part. 4. Fiftly, his seate must be at Ierusalem: the Popes is at Rome, part. 5. Sixtly, he shall ma∣nifestly denie Christ: so doth not the Pope, say they, part. 6. Seuenthly, he shall doe strange miracles, as bring downe fire from heauen, cause Images to speak, part. 7. Eightly, He shall wage great battailes, and conquer all the world, part. 8. Which cannot agree to the Pope: Ergo, he is not Antichrist.

Answere: To these eight arguments, we haue before answered seuerally: shewing, how fabulous, ridiculous, and impossible our aduersaries assertions are, without ground of scripture, shewe of reason, or colour of argument. Wherefore we will not trouble the reader with needlesse repetitions, desiring him to haue recourse to that which hath been alreadie sayd.

The Protestants.

THat the Pope of Rome is very Antichrist, and that all the qualities and pro∣perties which the scripture describeth Antichrist by, doe fitly agree vnto his person: and that we are not therefore to expect or looke for any other Anti∣christ. Thus by testimonie of scripture, and sufficient reasons deduced out of the same, we trust it shall appeare to all men.

Page  1831 The first place of scripture is Daniel 11. where many notes and markes are declared proper to Antichrist, yet especiallie set foorth to describe An∣tiochus Epiphanes, who might be very well a type and figure of Antichrist who was then to come.

1 vers. 36. It is sayd, He shall doe what him listeth. This is most true of the Pope: his will must stande for reason, Distinct. 96. cap. satis. If the Pope should drawe infinite soules to hell, no man is to say vnto him, Sir, why doe you so, Distinct. 40? Heere Bellarmine hath but this poore shift, to say, that it is meant onely of publike iudgement, that no man is by authoritie to call the Pope to account: but yet a brotherly admonition may bee v∣sed. But who seeth not that the words are generall: Nemo debet ei dicere, No man ought to say vnto him: neither Iudge, nor other?

2 Hee shall magnifie himselfe agaynst GOD, and speake blasphemous things agaynst GOD: hath not the Pope done so? Of him it is sayd, that GOD and the Pope haue but one Consistorie: I am able to doe almost all that GOD can doe, Fox. pag. 785. articl. 192. I am aboue all and in all: Ho∣stiens. Nay, that Dominion and Lordship which Christ had in earth, but ha∣bitu, in habite, the Pope hath actu, in act and in deede. Agayne, as we reade, the earth is the Lordes, and the fulnesse thereof, and as Christ sayth, all power is giuen mee in heauen, and in earth: so is it to bee affirmed, that the Vicar of Christ hath power on things celestiall, terrestriall, infer∣nall, apud Fox. pag. 791. col. 1. Now let the discreet reader iudge, whether this fellowe doe not magnifie himselfe, and speake blasphemously agaynst God.

3 Hee shall prosper till the wrath bee accomplished: So hath the Pope had but too good successe: hee hath subdued Emperours, and made them his seruants, trode vpon their neckes, made them serue at his table, crowned them with his feete, made them hold his stirrup, and leade his horse by the bridle. But wee doe hope that his date is out, and that hee shall prosper no lon∣ger.

4 vers. 37. He shall not care for the God of his fathers: No more doth the Pope: for he hath inuented and erected a newe breaden god, which he worship∣peth, hangeth vp in Churches, carrieth about in procession, being but a peece of bread. This breaden god a might, his forefathers neuer knew.

5 Hee shall not care for the desires of women: So hee prohibiteth law∣full marriage, permitteth adulteries, and the vnnaturall lust of Sodomites. Bellarmine first denyeth the text, which is faithfully translated according to the Hebrew. Secondly, he sayth, the place is meant literally and properly of Antio∣chus, who was giuen to the pleasures of women.

Answere: First, if it be meant literallie of Antiochus, then can it not be meant literallie of your Antichrist: If Antiochus be but a type of Antichrist, then can you not necessarilie conclude out of this place: for types prooue Page  184 not, vnlesse they be diuine, that is, appoynted of God to be types, which you can not shewe for this place: see then, the best arguments that you haue for your Antichrist, out of the prophecies of Daniel and Ezechiel, are proued nothing worth. Secondly, as Antiochus was giuen to vnlawfull desires of women, so is the Pope: yet might he be an enemie to chast and holy marriage, and so is the Pope. And by the way let it bee noted, that the Iesuite picketh quarrels with scripture, and maketh it false: for the text sayth, He, that is, Antiochus, shall not care for the desires of women. Yes (sayth the Iesuite) he shall be giuen to the pleasures of women, cleane contrarie to the text, Bellarm. cap. 21.

6 vers. 38. He shall honor his god Mauzzim, that is, a god of power and ri∣ches, with gold, siluer, precious stones: Both of these are most true of the popish religion: for their god hath brought them great riches, lands, treasure, posses∣sion: by their idolatrous Masses, they haue greatly enriched themselues, where∣in their breaden god playeth the chiefe part: and therefore they doe worship him agayne with gold, siluer, precious stones: what rich Corporals, and Altar∣clothes, Copes, Vestiments of veluet, silke, wrought with gold, are seene in their Churches? what gilding of Roodes, and Roodlofts, garnishing of Idols, what rich Crucifixes of siluer, of gold, beset with pearle and precious stones?

This description therefore of Daniel, as you see, doth in euery respect agree with the conditions and properties of Antichrist of Rome, Argument. Illyrici.

Secondly, Saint Paules description in euery poynt also is verified in the Pope. First: He shall exalt himselfe aboue God, and all that is called God, 2. Thess. 2.4. So the Pope challengeth the full authoritie of Christ, as wee haue shewed be∣fore, and exalteth himselfe aboue Emperours, which are called gods vpon earth: yea they haue taken the iust proportion of inequalitie betweene the Pope and Emperour: for the Pope is 47. degrees aboue the Emperour: as the Sunne is 47. degrees bigger then the Moone, Innocent 3. in decretalib.

2 He shall sit in the temple, that is, in the Church: so the Pope nameth him∣selfe head of the Church, and hath the keyes, as he braggeth, both of heauen and hell. Therefore the Turke cannot bee that Antichrist, because he is out of the Church: and so in truth is the Pope, but yet he challengeth to him and his the name of the Church.

3 The mysterie wrought in Paules time, and afterward encreased: so not long after the Apostles time, the Bishops of Rome began to lift vp their heads aboue other Churches, as Zozimus falsified the Councel of Nice, and sent to the 6. Councel of Carthage, to haue it there confirmed, that it might be lawfull to send vp appeales to Rome.

4 Antichrist shall come with lying signes: So hath the Pope done, as expe∣rience proueth, and we haue shewed before.

5 vers. 11. God shall send strong delusions, that they shall beleeue lyes. And in time of Poperie, men indeede were so strongly deluded, that the father perse∣cuted the sonne, the sonnes set fire to their father, yea the husband was made a witnesse agaynst the wife, the wife agaynst her husband, and seruants accused Page  185 their masters. These things are so well knowne in stories, that I neede not come to particulars.

6 Antichrist is called a wicked man, and a man of sinne, vers. 3.8. And where shall you finde more wicked men, then among the Popes? Siluester the 2. gaue his soule to the diuell to obtayne the Papacie, Fox. pag. 167. Benno reporteth of Hildebrand, that he poysoned sixe Popes to come to the Popedome. Pope Ste∣phen and Sergius, tooke vp the bodie of Formosus, and mangled it, cutting off his head and fingers, and so cast it into Tibris, Fox. pag. 120. We haue heard be∣fore, what a holy Father Pope Iohn the 13. was, he lay with his owne sister, and with his fathers Concubines, playing at dice, called for the diuell, was slayne in adulterie. And was it not, I pray you, a common prouerbe in England? He that goeth to Rome once, seeth a wicked man; he that goeth twise, learneth to know him; he that goeth the third time, bringeth him home with him, Fox. pag. 841. argument. Illyrici.

The third place we doe take out of the Apocalyps, chap. 9. where is a playne storie set downe of the Pope.

1 vers. 1. He is a starre fallen from heauen: he is departed from the ancient faith of Rome to superstition and idolatrie.

2 He hath the key of the bottomlesse pit: who giueth the crosse keyes in his armes but the Pope? who sayth hee may euacuate all Purgatorie at once, if hee will, but he? Who sayth, he may, Pleno iure currus animarum plenos secum ad tartara detrudere, by full right, carrie downe to hell with him charriots Ioden with soules? cap. si Papa. distinct. 42. Is not this the Pope? who then more fitly may be sayd to haue the key of the bottomlesse pit.

3 There arise out of the bottomlesse pit a great flocke of Locusts, that is, the innumerable sort of begging Friers: for they are in euery respect described: First, compared to Locusts for their number, vers. 3. There were an 100. diuers sorts of Friers, Fox. pag. 260. Secondly, they had power giuen them for fiue mo∣neths: that is, as Walter Brute expoundeth it, taking a moneth for thirtie dayes, & a day for a yeere, as it is prophetically taken: an 150. yeeres, for so long it was from the beginning of the Friers vnder Innocent the 3. anno 1212. to the time of Armachanus, who preached, disputed, and wrote agaynst the Friers, about anno 1360. Fox. pag. 414. Thirdly, they shall sting like Scorpions, not slay all at once, but venome and poyson the conscience with the sting of their pestilent doctrine. Fourthly, other parts also of the description agree, as vers. 7. They are as horses prepared to battaile, that is, stoute & ambitious, their haire as the haire of women, that is, they shall be effeminate, and giuen to the lusts of the flesh: their teeth as the teeth of Lions: they by valiant begging shall deuoure the por∣tions of the poore: as it was well proued in King Henry the 8. dayes, in the Sup∣plication of beggars, that the summe of the Friers almes came to a great summe in the yeere: for the fiue orders of Friers had a penie a quarter for euery one of euery housholder throughout England, that is, for them all twentie pence by the yeere▪ suppose, that there be but ten housholds in euery towne, and let there Page  186 be twentie thousand parishes and townes in England; it will not want much of twentie thousand pound. Thus had they Lions teeth, that is, consuming and deuouring. Lastly, they haue a King, vers. 11. whose name is Abaddon, a de∣stroyer: for the Pope their chiefe prince and patron, hath by his Antichristian doctrine layd wast the Church of God, Argument. Chytraei.

The fourth place of scripture wee will take out of the 17. of the Apocalyps▪ there the seate of Antichrist is described. First, vers. 5. It is called Babylon, the ci∣tie which raigneth ouer the Kings of the earth, vers. 18. This can be no other but Rome, which then had the Empire of the whole world. Secondly, It is the citie built vpon seuen hils or mountaynes, vers. 9. that is no other but Rome. Thirdly, the whore, which is Antichrist, shall sit vpon the beast with seuen heads and ten hornes, that is, shall succeede in the Empire, and haue the authoritie thereof: so hath the Pope. Fourthly, the ten hornes, that is, the Kings of the earth, shal giue their authoritie to the beast: but afterward shall deuoure her flesh: Euen so the Kings of the earth by their sword maintayned the authoritie of the Pope. But now being taught by the Gospell, they are made the Lords free men, and begin to subdue their neckes from his yoke.

The fift place is 1. Iohn 2.22. Who is a lyar, but he that denyeth that Iesus is Christ? the same is Antichrist that denyeth the father and the sonne.

Euen so the Pope of Rome, though not openly and apertly, yet closely and subtilly is an enemie vnto the whole trinitie: He exalteth himselfe aboue God the father; because he taketh vpon him to dispense not onely agaynst the lawe of nature, but agaynst the lawe of God, the morall law, and agaynst the precepts both of the old and new testament: but a lawe cannot be dispensed withall, but by the same authoritie or greater.

Agaynst Iesus Christ he exalteth himselfe, and all his offices, he denyeth him to be the onely Prophet, saying, the scriptures are vnperfect, and that their tradi∣tions are also necessarie to saluation. Agayne, he maketh other bookes scripture, then those which are Canonicall. His kingly office he doth arrogate to himselfe, in making lawes to binde the conscience, in ordayning other Sacraments, in granting Indulgences and Pardons, & saying that he is the head of the Church. His Priesthood he is an enemie vnto, constituting another priesthood after the order of Melchisedech, then that of our Sauiour Christ which begun vpon the Crosse, and remayneth still in his person, being incommunicable to any other creature: yet they make euery sacrificing Priest to bee of the order of Melchi∣sedech.

He impugneth the office of the holy spirit, counting that prophane which the holy Ghost hath sanctified, as marriage and meates: arrogateth in all things the spirit of truth not to erre: applieth the merites of Christs passion after his owne pleasure, by Pardons, Indulgences, by ceremonies and Sacraments of his owne inuention, Fulk. 2. Thess. 2. sect. 10. Ergo, we conclude out of S. Iohn, that seeing he denieth Iesus to be Christ, he is Antichrist.

Sixtly, S. Paul sayth, that Antichrist shalbe an aduersarie, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. 2. Thess. 2.4 Page  187 An aduersarie in doctrine, teaching cleane contrarie to the Gospell of Christ: so doth the Pope.

1 The scripture sayth, wee ought to put our trust onely in God, and not in man, Ierem. 17.7. and to call vpon God onely in the day of trouble, Psal. 50.15. and to worship him in spirit and truth, Iohn 4.24. The Papists say cleane contra∣rie, that we must call vpon Saints, and beleeue they can helpe vs, and they teach vs to fall downe before Images, which are stockes and stones.

2 The Gospell teacheth, that wee are freely saued by Iesus Christ, without workes, which neither merite remission of sinnes, nor eternall life, for eternall life is the free gift of God, Rom. 6.23. And our sinnes are forgiuen vs freely, be∣cause they are not imputed, Rom. 4.6. They affirme cleane contrarie, that by our merites we may deserue heauen: and that vita aeterna, is merces bonorum operum, that eternall life is the reward of good workes. But S. Paul sayth, it is a free gift, Bellarm. cap. 23.

3 The Gospell teacheth vs, that we should growe vp to an assurance of our election, 2. Pet. 1:10. and with boldnes to call vpon the name of God, Heb. 4.10. The Papists say, we should be kept alwaies in doubt, and it is presumption to be assured of the fauour of God.

4 The Gospell saith, that not onely externall acts, but euen secret thoughts are sinne, yea the very cōcupiscence of the flesh to be sinne, Genes. 6.5. Rom. 7.7. They denie that concupiscence and euill thoughts are sinne, vnlesse the be vo∣luntarie, and haue the consent of the will, ibid.

5 The Gospell teacheth, that it is impossible for any man to keepe and per∣forme the lawe of God, Rom. 8.7. Luk. 17.10. They doubt not to say, that a man by grace may fulfill the lawe, and by fulfilling of it deserue heauen.

6 Christ instituted the Sacrament in both kinds, and Paul. 1. Cor. 11. giuing a direction concerning the Sacrament, not onely to the Pastors and Ministers, but to the whole Church of Corinth, doth rehearse the institution in both kinds. But the Papists doe minister but in one kind to the people.

7 The Gospell saith, that the Church is builded vpon Christ, and he is the onely foundation thereof, 1. Cor. 3.11. The Papists hold that Peter first, and now the Pope, whom they make his successor, is the foundation of the Church, Ar∣gument. Chytraei. And thus we see, the Pope in his doctrine is a plaine aduersarie to Christ, and therefore Antichrist.

The seuenth argument, Apocalyps 17.1. Antichrist is called the great whore: And here we are to note the singular prouidence of God, who suffereth not one iot of his word to fall to the ground: for euen soverily, Anno 853. next after Leo the 4. there was a right whore elected Pope called Iohn, or if you will, Ioane the 8. who fate in the Papacie two yeeres, sixe moneths; and on a time being with child, fell in labour in the midst of a solemne procession. Whereupō there was a certayn Image of a woman with a child set vp in the same place where the Pope was deliuered: And euer since the Popes, when they goe to Laterane, doe shun that streete, being yet the neerer way, abhorring that fact and the memorie ther∣of. Page  188 There was also long after a chayre of Porphyrie stone kept in Laterane, with an hole in the midst, wherein the newe elected Pope was wont to sit to haue his humanitie tried, Iuell. pag. 428. Defens. Apol.

Obiect. 1. Harding, and since him Bellarmine obiect, that there was neuer any such Pope, because she is not registred in the Popes Calendar. Ans. No, they left her out for shame, as Marianus Scotus writeth. Agayne, Bishops names haue vpon sundrie occasions been left out: as Chrysostomes name was striken out vpon displeasure out of the table of the Bishops of Constantinople: So Pope Cyriacus is not reckoned in the Calendar of the Popes, and yet he was one of them.

Obiect. 2. Whereas it is said, that this Pope Ioane was first student at Athens, and afterward professed at Rome, Harding denieth, that at Athens then there was any place for students, but all was barbarous, and so sayth Bellarm. neither that at Rome there was any open profession of letters at that time. Ans. First, anno 680. the Bishop of Athens was at a Councel at Constantinople, called Syno∣dus sexta, anno 742. at the second Councel of Nice, there were many Bishops of Greece present: and Pope Ioane followed, anno 853. and how should Athens afterward become barbarous, being inhabited all this while by Christians? for it was not taken of the Turkes before anno 1440. Secondly, and me thinkes it is a discredite for Rome, that there should be there vnder the Popes nose no profes∣sion of learning, and that there should be there no Vniuersitie of Students, where the vniuersall Bishop sate. But Theodoricus Niemus, sometime the Popes Se∣cretarie, sayth, she read a Lecture two yeeres at Rome.

Obiect. 3. It is not like that God would suffer S. Peters chayre to be polluted by a woman, Harding. Ans. You presume to much of Gods prouidence, hauing no such promise. Why might not a woman as well creepe into S. Peters chayre at Rome, as one did into S. Andrewes of Constantinople? as Bellarmine confesseth, what priuiledge hath one more then the other.

Obiect. 4. As for the chayre (saith Harding) it is a fable: but Bellarmine more modestly graunteth there is a chayre of Porphyrie, but to another purpose, to shewe the Popes humilitie, not to trie his humanitie. Agayne, Harding sayth it is a lye, that the Popes refrayne to goe that way. But Bellarmine, that knoweth Rome better then he, denieth not that the Pope so doth, but not for any such hei∣nous fact there committed, but because it is a strait way, and is not fit for his trayne. And as for the Image, Harding saith, it representeth no such thing, but is rather like one of the great ragged stones at Stonage. Bellarmine denieth not, but there is such an Image, but it seemeth not to bee a picture of a woman, but rather of some heathen priest going to sacrifice. We see how handsomely they agree in their answers: And no maruaile, for if one lyer is many times contrary to himselfe, how should two lyars agree? But these men go only by coniectures: we haue their owne writers against them: for Theodoricus Niemus saith there is such an Image that resembleth such a thing, and that the Popes will not goe that way in procession to this day vpon that occasion. And as for the chayre of Page  189 marble to that vse, to search the Pope, Sabellicus reporteth it, Aenead. 9. lib. 1.

In this one example we may see the boldnes of our aduersaries, which are not ashamed to denye so famous a storie, being reported by Sabellicus, Leonicus Chalcondyla, Marianus Scotus, that liued about the yeere 1028. Sigebertus Gim∣blacens. anno 1100. beside thirteene Historiographers, as they are quoted by Bishop Iewel, and of them all not one a Lutherane.* It is almost as foule a shame for them to denye so manifest and playne a thing, as it is a great blot to their suc∣cession, that a whore sate sometimes in the Papall chayre. Thus then by eui∣dent demonstration it appeareth, that the Pope is the whore of Babylon, and so consequently very Antichrist.

Lastly, in the eight place, their owne witnesses shall speake: Bernard sayth, Bestia de Apocalypsi, cui datum est os, loquens blasphemias, Petri Cathedram occu∣pat. The Beast in the Apocalypse,* to the which a mouth was giuen speaking blas∣phemies, doth occupie Peters chayre. Ioachim. Abbas sayth, Antichristus iam pridem natus est Romae: Antichrist a good while since was borne at Rome. The Bishops in the Councel at Reynspurge say thus: Hildebrandus Papa, sub specie religionis, iecit fundamenta Antichristi: Hildebrand vnder colour of holines, hath layd a foundation for Antichrist. Nay, long before any of these, Gregorie the 1. first of all the Gregories, and the best of all the Popes that haue followed him, thus prophecied of his successors: Ego fidenter dico,*quòd quisquis se vniuersalem sacerdotem vocat, vel vocari desiderat, in elatione sua Antichristum praecurrit: I speake it confidently, that whosoeuer calleth himselfe, vniuersall Priest, or de∣sireth so to bee called in the pride of his heart, is the forerunner of Antichrist. But the Popes of Rome are now called vniuersall Bishops or Priests: Ergo, they are either Antichrists, or the forerunners of Antichrist. But it is not like that Antichrist should haue so many forerunners, and so many yeeres, almost a thousand since Boniface the 3. was first called vniuersall Bishop: Ergo, Anti∣christ is alreadie come, and hath been a good while: and where els should he be, but there where his forerunners were, namely, at Rome? Now therefore seeing wee haue so many witnesses, the scripture, reason, experience, authorities to prooue the Pope Antichrist: who will either bee so simple, as seeing so good grounds, not to beleeue it, or so scrupulous, hauing such certayne euidence, to doubt thereof? And thus at the length, by Gods gracious assistance, wee haue finished and brought this great question concerning Antichrist, to an end, as al∣so the whole controuersie as touching the Bishop or Pope of Rome.

Page  190


HAuing now sufficientlie handled the controuersie of the chiefe member of the militant Church, which our aduersaries say is the Pope, wee must come in the next place to speake of the middle parts, which are those whom they call Clericos, Clerkes, and they are of two sorts; Secular, which haue any publique function in the Church: or Regular, which liue according to some rule, and they are called Mo∣nachi, Monkes. First then of their secular Clerkes.

This controuersie conteyneth sixe questions.

  • 1 Of the name and title of Clerkes or Clergie men.
  • 2 Concerning the election of Bishops and Ministers: first of all in generall: secondly, of the election of the Bishop of Rome.
  • 3 Concerning Ecclesiasticall orders. First, in generall: secondly, of the diffe∣rence of Bishops and other Ministers. Thirdly, of Cardinals.
  • 4 Concerning the keyes of the Church, and the power of binding and loo∣sing: the question deuided into foure parts.
  • 5 Concerning the marriage of Ministers: three parts of the question.
  • 6 Of the maintenance of the Church by tythes: in two parts.

THE FIRST QVESTION, CONCERNING THE name of Clerkes or Clergie men.

The Papists.

[error 66] THis name Clergie, in Latine, Clerus, is a name made proper to the Spiritual∣tie, by vse of antiquitie, and agreeably to Scriptures: they are so called, be∣cause they are the Lords lot, and consecrate to the diuine seruice: the rest are called popular, or lay men, which meddle not with any function of the Church.

1 This word (say they) hath been vsed by all antiquitie, and thereby Church Ministers only signified: Ergo, it is a fit and decent name, Bellar. lib. 1. de Clericis, cap. 1. Rhemens. 1. Pet. 2.3

Ans. First, the Fathers vsed this name Clergie, but not as it is now vsed of the Papists, which doe hereby as it were exclude the people of God from the Lords inheritance, counting them as Asses and Dogs, in respect of the Clergie: they vsed it as a ciuill indifferent name, for an outward distinctiō of their callings, not as a name of more holines, and so we refuse it not.

2 What though by custome & continuance this name hath been somewhat abused, we will learne herein to speake of the scriptures, and not of men.

Page  191Secondly, we mislike this name (say our aduersaries) because we would haue no difference betweene the people and Clergie, Rhemist. ibid.

Ans. It is a great slander: because we make no such difference, as they doe, as to make the Clergie onely Gods lot and portion, and to count the people as vnholy, and to preferre euery ignorant doltish Masse priest, before the best and deuoutest of the people: therefore they imagine we make no difference at all. We doe distinguish the calling of the one, and the other: none of the lay sort to be so hardie as to meddle with the word or Sacraments, which are commit∣ted to the Ministers, which you notwithstanding permit them to doe: and the people euery where to reuerence their Pastors and to yeeld due obedience vn∣to them. But that the calling of the one before God in it selfe, is more merito∣rious then the other, that we doe not, neither dare affirme.

3 The Leuites in the time of the lawe, were seuered out from the rest of the Lords people, and he was their lot and inheritance, and they the Lords lot. Deut. 18.2. And as the Leuites were then, so are the Ministers of the Gospell now. Bellarm.

Ans. First, the Lord is rather sayd to be their lot, because they had the Lords portion, and liued of the Altar, then they are sayd to be the Lords lot: for the whole nation was holie vnto God, and a kingdome of Priests, Exod. 19.6. Se∣condly, it followeth not, that because there was a legall and ceremoniall diffe∣rence then betweene the Priests and the people, that therefore it ought to be so now: Nay rather the contrarie followeth, because there was such a difference then, that therefore the Priesthood of the lawe being ceased, there ought to bee none such now: for Christ hath made vs all Kings and Priests to God his father, Apocal. 1.6: And we are al a royall priesthood and holy nation, 1. Pet. 2.9. Now, though there be a difference of callings amongst men, yet before God we are all Priests alike, and there is but one Priest for vs all to Godward, euen Christ Iesus our Lord.

The Protestants.

THe name of Clerkes, or Clergie men, if it be not vsed as a name in it selfe of greater holines and merite, and so is in effect a proude excluding of the rest of Christians from the Lords inheritance, we refuse it not, though there are bet∣ter names and titles, to call the Ministers of the Gospell by: yet being taken as it is in Poperie, we doe vtterly refuse and reiect it.

First, 1. Pet. 5.3. The Apostle exhorteth the pastors and teachers to feede the flock of Christ, non vt dominantes Cleris, not as Lords ouer Gods Clergie & in∣heritance. Here S. Peter calleth the whole flocke, the Clergie: wherefore it ap∣peareth, that this difference was not knowne in the Apostles time of lay and Clergie men: And it is agaynst all sense, that Saint Peter should vnderstand here the inferiour Ministers, and so exhorteth the superiour Pastors and Bishops to looke to their Clergie, as the Rhemists would haue it: for S. Peter speaketh of Page  192 the whole flocke and congregation, which cannot bee vnderstood properly of many Ministers dispersed into seuerall places.

2 Neither shall wee finde this word Clerus, the Clergie, properly applied to the Ministers, throughout the newe testament, let our aduersaries brag neuer so much of scripture as they doe. Galat. 6.6. S. Paul vseth these names of difference, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, the teacher, and he that is taught: and 1. Corinth. 14.16. 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, the speaker, and 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 the priuate or vnlettered man. So that all their names are giuen in respect of their outward ministerie and calling, not in regard of any dif∣ference before God. For before the Lord, as there is neither Graecian nor Iewe, bond nor free,* male nor female; so neither is there Clerke or lay man.

3 Augustine thus writeth concerning this name, Cleros, qui sunt in eccle∣siastici ministerij gradibus ordinati, sic dictos puto, quia Matthias sorte electus est, in Psal. 67. Clerkes, which serue in the Ministerie, I thinke, were so called, because Matthias was chosen by lot. See then, they are not called Clerkes because they are the Lords lot, but because they are allotted and chosen out of the people for that seruice: as the Leuites are called the peoples gift, Numbers 18.6. and the Priests office an office of seruice: not of more merite or holinesse, or an office of Lordly preeminence, but of ministerie and seruice. Augustine therefore hath a notable saying: Non nos digni, qui pro vobis oremus, vos indigni, qui pro nobis o∣retis, Psal. 68. We are not onely worthie to pray for you, and you vnworthie to pray for vs: Auditoribus suis, quibus verbum praedicauit, se commendauit Apo∣stolus, ibid. The Apostle commendeth himselfe to their deuout praiers, to whom he preached. By this their error is confuted, that thinke the prayer of a Priest to be the rather heard for the merite and dignitie of his calling, howsoeuer els he be affected in his prayer. So the Rhemists say, that a prayer not vnderstood pro∣fiteth by the vertue of the worke wrought and the office of the Priesthood, Annot. 1. Corinth. 14. sect. 10.

THE SECOND QVESTION, CONCERNING the election and institution of Bishops and Pastors.

THis question hath two parts: First, of the election generally of Pastors and Ministers: Secondly, of the election of the Bishop of Rome.

THE FIRST PART CONCERNING THE ELE∣ction generally of all Bishops and Pastors.
The Papists.

[error 67] THey say, that the election of Bishops neither belongeth to the Clergie, nor the people, but wholly appertayneth to the Bishop of Rome: as for the people, they haue (they say) nothing at all to doe in the election of their Page  193 pastors, or ordayning of them, that neither their suffragium, consilium, or consen∣sus, suffrage, counsell or consent is to be required, Bellarm. de clericis lib. 1. cap. 7. & 8.

1 That the people are to be vtterly excluded, thus they would proue it: Aa∣ron was onely elected of Moses, without consent of the people, so were the A∣postles by our Sauiour: Ergo, the peoples consent is not required, Bellarm.

Ans. Who seeth not, that there is great difference betweene ordinary and ex∣traordinary callings? such as the calling of the Apostles was, and Aarons at the first, though the office of the high Priest afterward became ordinarie. Also it followeth not, the Apostles were chosen without consent of the people, when there were yet no faithfull and Christian congregations, and because they were pastors of the whole world, Ergo, as well the peoples consent may be wanting in the election of ordinarie Bishops and Pastors, which haue their peculiar & pro∣per charges, and there being now many faithfull and well instructed congrega∣tions. It is one thing to appoynt Pastors for the Church not yet planted, & an other thing to constitute them in a Church alreadie reformed and instructed: for we reade of nations that haue been conuerted to the faith, by those that had no calling of the Church, as a great nation of the Indians was by Aedesius and Frumentinus, Ruffin. lib. 1.9. and the Iberians by a captiue woman, Ruffin. 1.10.

2 The people cannot iudge, who are fit to be pastors, and their elections are tumultuous, as we may reade, how in the election of Damasus there were 137. persons slaine, and therefore it is not meete, nor conuenient, that the matter should be committed to the people, either to elect, or ordayne: but whatsoeuer they did in times past, it was either by sufferance or negligence of the Bishops, Bellarmin. cap. 7.

Ans. First, meere popular elections were neuer allowed in any well ordered Church, neither was the allowāce of their pastors wholly referred to the people, neither did they beare the chiefe stroke, but the election was moderated by the wisedome and grauitie of the Clergie, Fulk. Tit. 1. sect. 2. Secondly, the question is not betweene vs, concerning the ordayning of pastors, for that belonged on∣ly to the Eldership, and was done by laying on of their hands, 1. Timoth. 4.14: but concerning the electing and choosing of them. Thirdly, neither doe we dis∣pute, whether it be conuenient and necessarie at al times, but whether it be law∣full: for neither doe we affirme, that it is of the essence and substance of the cal∣ling of ministers to be chosen by the voyces of the people: as though they were no ministers, but vsurpers and intruders that are not so called:* but whether it hath been at any time, & may yet be lawfull, to require the consent of the people. Fourthly, it is false, that the people had this right by vsurpation, or els sufferance of the Pastors: for Cyprian sayth, it did, De diuina authoritate descendere, lib. 1. Epistol. 4. That this custome was grounded vpon diuine authoritie, yea it was established by the lawes of Kings: as there was a lawe made by Lodouicus Pius King of France, that Bishops should bee ordayned by the free election of the Clergie and the people, ex Ansigis. lib. 1. cap. 20.

Page  1943 Therefore (say they) elections of Bishops ought to bee at the Popes as∣signement: for vnto Peter was committed the care of the vniuersall Church, when he bad Peter feede his sheepe. Hereupon they are bold to affirme, that we haue neither true Bishops nor Ministers, because they are not lawfully sent, that is, as they interprete it, from the See Apostolike, Bellarm. lib. 1. cap. 3.8. Rhe∣mist. Rom. 10. sect. 5.

Answere: First, the charge giuen to Peter beareth no such sense: that because Christ bad him feede his sheepe, therefore he and his successors should onely haue authoritie to consecrate Ministers: for if Peter had it by this grant, other Elders and Pastors had it in like sort, to whom it as well appertayned to feede the flocke of Christ, 1. Peter 5.2. And agayne, not Peter onely, but the rest also of the Apostles did ordayne and consecrate Pastors and Elders, as it shall be shewed afterward.

Secondly, neither is it a good reason to condemne our Ministerie, because it hath not the Popes allowance: for euery Church hath a lawfull calling within it selfe, without sending to forrayne Prelates for their approbation. And if you aske vs by whom our Ministers were first called, seeing there were none but popish Bishops in euery Church: wee answere: that some had their calling in the Popish Church, which afterward being more effectually called of GOD, became profitable teachers of the Gospell. Neither is it necessarie, that the Church should alwayes be bound to an ordinarie calling; when as the state of the Church is so corrupted, and the gouernment thereof, that no good calling can bee obtayned: for then the Lord raiseth vp some extraordinarily for the re∣formation of the Church, such as we doubt not, but Luther was. In which and the like cases, the ordinarie imposition of hands by the Pastors of the Church, being heretikes and idolaters, as it was in time of Poperie, is not to be expected or stayed for, Plura apud Fulk. annot. Rom. 10. sect. 5.

The Protestants.

COncerning election or choise to be made by the people, we are to put three cases. First, meere popular elections, wherein the people by multitude of voyce should carrie all away, are in no case, nor at any time to be allowed. Se∣condly, for the people to giue their voyce in elections, which are moderated and gouerned by the graue and wise Pastors and Elders, it hath been vsed in times past, and may bee agayne, and is in some places, where the state of the Church, the condition and qualitie of the people will beare it. Thirdly, though the people neither beare sway in the election, nor giue their suffrages and voyces, yet it is conuenient and requisite, that their consent should be had, and publike testimonie: for the Ministers should bee such as haue a good report of all, 1. Timoth. 3.7. Fulk. Act. 14. sect. 3. But as for the Pope, let him keepe himselfe, as a Bishop in his owne Dioces, he hath nothing to doe with ordayning or ele∣cting of Ministers in other Churches.

Page  1951 Numb. 20.27. Eleazar was made Priest in Aarons place, in the sight of all the congregation: Ergo, Ministers ought to be ordayned publikely in the sight of the congregation: not in corners or priuate places, as they vsed to doe in time of Poperie: yea it is recorded of Pope Iohn the 13. that he ordayned Deacons in a stable. And herein they offended manifestly agaynst their owne rules: for their decree is, Nullus inuitis detur Episcopus,*sed Cleri & plebis consensus & desideriū requiratur: Let no Bishop be thrust vpon any against their wils, but let the con∣sent and desire of the people and Clergie be knowne.

2 We haue the example of the Apostles, Act. 1. & 6. & 14.23. When Mat∣thias was elected, the whole multitude was called together: and Act. 6. the Dea∣cons were chosen by the whole multitude: Ergo, the people had an interest in times past in the election of Church officers: and this example of the Apostles may safely and lawfully bee followed of the Church, when time and place ser∣ueth.

Bellarmine answereth: First, the election of Deacons and Pastors is not all one, neither is there the like reason. Ans. They are both publike officers for the good of the Church, and therfore if the people haue any interest in the one, why not in the other? Secondly, this was done by the grant and sufferance of the A∣postles. Ans. Yea the Apostles called them together, but by the direction of the holy Ghost: as Act. 15. when the Church was assembled together vpon ano∣ther occasion, it is sayd, It seemed good to vs and the holy Ghost. Agayne, in the election, beside imposition of hands, prayer was vsed, which was a chiefe part of that action: but the people had their interest in publike prayers, as being part of the congregation, and were not admitted thereunto at the pleasure and will of men: wherefore it is not true, that it was a meere grant of men, that the people might be present at elections, but it so seemed good to the Apostles thereto di∣rected by the spirit of God.

3 But as for the right of elections in the Pope, it hath no shewe of reason: for bee it that Peter had onely the right of consecration amongst the Apostles, you doe but flatter your selues in thinking, that whatsoeuer right was in Peter, it must needes be in the Pope: for he is not Peters successor, as we haue shewed before at large. But we will hold you rather to this poynt: that all the Apostles had as full right to ordayne and consecrate by laying on of hands, as Peter had. Looke Act. 6.6. & Act. 13.3. & Act. 14.23. And if the Pope cannot haue all that which Peter had, much lesse can he bee capable of that which Peter neuer had.

4 We haue had good experience in England, of the Popes great discretion and wisedome, in collation of spirituall preferments, and ordayning of Bishops. About anno 1253. the Pope wrote a very imperious and commanding letter to the good Bishop of Lincolne, Robert Grostede,* to bestowe a Canonship in Lincolne vpon his nephewe, a boy: for so Popes call their bastards: but he suffe∣red the repulse for that time. In the time of Edward the 3. and Richard the 2. a Page  196 certificate was sent vp into the Chauncerie, of such Ecclesiasticall dignities, as were possessed by strangers not inhabiting the land: and there were found a∣boue fourtie Deaneries, Archdeaconries and Prebends, and those not the worst, some worth one hundred, some two hundred, nay, some foure hundred pound by the yeere, the Archdeaconrie of Canturburie was valued at seuen hundred Florences by the yeere, which a Cardinall of Rome had: And there were aboue a dosen Cardinals resiant at Rome,* that had at once the best and richest dignities in the land: beside a great sort of Italian priests, and others, that were beneficed in England. By this it may appeare, what good choise the Pope-holy father of Rome was wont to make in bestowing Church dignities: and it were pitie but he should haue the ordering of them still, he did so well dispose of them when he had them.

5 Let Augustine speake, who growing now old, was desirous to knowe his successor while he liued: he went not to Rome for the matter: but assembling the Church together at Hippo where he was Bishop; in the presence of two Bishops beside, and seuen Presbyters or Elders, Astante clero & frequenti popu∣lo, the whole Clergie, and a great sort of people standing by: Augustine him∣selfe began first and sayd, Presbyterum Eradium mihi successorem volo: I would haue Eradius presbyter to be my successor. Afterward, hearing how the people did approue and like of his motion, he desired them to subscribe to that which was done, Rogo vt dignemini gestis subscribere, qui potestis. And when they held their peace, he vrged them further, saying, Hic mihi responsione vestra opus est, de hac assensione aliquid acclamate: I must needes haue you make some answere, and testifie your consent by your acclamation: A populo acclamatum est, fiat, fiat, dictum vicies quinquies: The people cryed out, let it be as thou hast sayd, let it be, and this was repeated fiue and twentie times, Augustin. epistol. 110. By this example it appeareth, though the people made not the choise, yet their consent was demanded. And thus a Bishop was elected, and no word sent vp to Rome at all.

Neither was it the custome of the Church so to do in those dayes: for where∣as the Donatists obiected agaynst Cecilianus Bishop of Carthage, because he stayed not to be ordayned of the chiefe Bishop of Numidia, Vt princeps Episco∣pus a principe ordinaretur: That one chiefe Bishop might bee ordayned of an other. Augustine answered, that there was another custome of the Catholike Church, Vt non Numidiae, sed propinquiores Episcopi, Episcopum ecclesiae Cartha∣ginis ordinarent:* That not the Bishop of Numidia, but those Bishops that were neerest at hand, should ordayne the Bishop of Carthage. So we see, they were not onely bold to choose an inferiour Bishop, as was Eradius of Hippo, without the Popes consent: but they would aduenture to ordayne a chiefe Metropoli∣tane Bishop euen of Carthage, without the Popes leaue.

Page  197
THE SECOND PART CONCERNING the election of the Pope.

THey say, that the surest and safest way and simplie the best, is that which is [error 68] now vsed, to choose the Pope by, namely by the Colledge of the Cardinals: That whosoeuer is by two partes of the sayd Cardinals elected, is rightly the successor of Saint Peter, and the vndoubted Pope of Rome.

1 None can better iudge who is fittest for the papacie,* then they which are the Popes Counsellers, and know the affayres of the Church. Ergo, the Car∣dinals the meetest men.

Answere: First, you take that for graunted, which wee instantly denie, that the Cardinals of Rome are alwayes the wisest and most learned: as though a Cardinals hat doth bring with it such abundance of vertue and learning: nay a title of a Cardinalship is sooner obtayned by fauour than desert, by masses of money, then weight of learning: And good reason, seeing that the Cardinals make a gayne of the papacie: For an Asse loaden with golde shall sooner en∣ter into the Castle of Saint Angel, then any other comming with a cart loade of bookes: they that reade Cardinal Wolseyes instructions sent to Stephen Gardi∣ner at Rome, what great promises of money and preferment, may easily vn∣derstand the disposition of the Pope-holy Electors of Rome: Seeing they make a gayne of the Pope, why should not he set Cardinalships to sale?* for if Iacobus Archbishop of Mentz payd 27000. florences for his pall, what thinke you a Cardinals hat is to be valued at, which is a higher degree,* then either Bishop or Archbishop?

We say then, that there may be wiser and more learned men of the Clergie in Rome then the Cardinals: and that the whole Clergie may better iudge, then a few ambitious Cardinals, and are freer from corruption.

2 They are not fitter, not concerning the affayres of the Church, for Bi∣shops are like to know better, what appertayneth to the office of a Bishop, then priests and Deacons, as most of the Cardinals are.

2 It appeareth by the continuance to be the best:* for it hath now endured foure hundred yeeres: and by the effect, for the See of Rome hath neuer been freer from Schismes, then since this order was taken for the Popes election, Bel∣larmin. cap. 9.

Answere: First, how can it be of such long continuance, seeing by your owne confession, it exceedeth not foure hundred yeeres? Nay who will not graunt, that the ancient order of electing the Bishop of Rome by the whole Clergie, and consent of the people of Rome, with the confirmation of the Emperour, which lasted a thousand yeeres, till this new deuice came in place, was far more ancient and durable? Secondly, how well the Cardinals election hath kept the See of Rome from Schisme, experience of former times teacheth vs: In pope Vrbanus time the 6. there were two popes many yeeres together: Page  198 and one did so deadly pursue the other, that Pope Vrbane at once cut off fiue of the Cardinals heads: might they not haue great ioy, thinke you, in choosing such a Pope? In the time of Pope Iohn the 23. there were three Popes at once. In the Councel of Basile Pope Eugenius was deposed,* and counted an heretike. And yet for all this, the Cardinals are the onely preseruers and maintainers of the peace of the Apostolike See.

The Protestants.

THough it doe not greatly concerne vs, what manner of election is vsed at Rome: (for vnto vs the electiō of the meanest Bishop in the land is as much, yea and more, then the glorious enthronizing of the Pope:) Yet it shall not be amisse briefly to shew, how these great antiquaries are become enemies of antiquitie, refusing the ancient manner of election, which was vsed in Rome for a 1000. yeares together, namely, that the Bishop there should be elected by the whole Clergy, wiht the consent of the people and confirmation of the Em∣perour.

1 It is a playne case, that till the yeare 685. in all their elections they way∣ted for the authoritie of the chiefe Magistrate, the Emperour, or the deputie of Italie. But then came in the constitution of Constantine the 4 that their electi∣ons should be firme without the consent of the Emperour. Yet for all this con∣stitution, anno. 810. Pope Adriane gaue vnto Carolus magnus full authoritie to elect the Bishop of Rome: and anno. 961. Leo the 9. made the same grant to Otho first Germane Emperor. This continued in force till Alexander the 2. his time, who was elected first without the Emperors consent, but afterward repenting of it, he protested openly, that he would be no longer Pope vnlesse hee had the Emperours consent, and thereupon he was deposed by Hildebrand, and throwen into prison. This was more then a 1000. yeeres after Christ: since that time the Emperour hath been excluded, and shut out from their e∣lections. But all this while notwithstanding, though the Emperors consent sometime was not necessary, yet the Clergie of Rome, and the people retay∣ned their ancient priuiledge still. So we see by this new erection of the Col∣ledge of Cardinals,* there is great iniurie offered to three estates, the Emperor, the Clergie of Rome, the people.

2 This new forme of election hath not stood continually in force, since it was first founded. For in the Councel of Constance sess. 40. they proceeded to the election of a new Pope, not staying for the rest of the Cardinals, but ap∣poynting other electors in their roume. In the Councel of Basile, the Duke of Sauoy was elected Pope, by other electors, then Cardinals: Nay there was but one Cardinal, namely, Arolatensis, the rest were Bishops, Doctors and others. And though they will say perchance that this Pope was chosen in a schisme, for they holde the Councel of Basile to be schismaticall: yet they can not, neither doe deny, but that Pope Martin the 5. who was chosen at Con∣stance, was rightfully Pope.

Page  1993 In Augustines time the rest of the Bishops of Italie neere vnto Rome, should seeme to haue had some interest in the election of the Bishop: Romanae ecclesiae Episcopum non ordinat Episcopus aliquis metropolitanus, sed de proximo O∣stiensis Episcopus: The B. of Rome is not ordained by any Metropolitane, but by the Bishop of Ostia that is neere at hand, Breuicul. collation. lib. 2. cap. 5.

THE THIRD QVESTION CONCERNING THE degrees and orders of ecclesiasticall ministers.

THis question hath 3. parts: first of the 7. degrees of popish priesthood. Se∣condly, of the difference and distinction of Bishops & other Ministers. Third∣ly, of the institution of Cardinals, a new degree of the popish Clergie.

THE FIRST PART OF THE SEVEN degrees or orders Ecclesiasticall.
The Papists.

THough they haue diuers degrees of dignitie in the Church, as Popes, Cardinals, Patriarkes, Primates, and such like: yet they make but seuen [error 69] Ecclesiasticall orders, which are conferred solemnlie by certayne rites and ceremonies by their Bishops: And they are these, Ostiarij, doore-keepers, Exorcistae, Exorcists, Lectores, Readers, Acolythi, Attenders, Subdiaconi, Sub∣deacons, Diaconi, Deacons, and the highest degree, Sacerdotes, Priests; vnto the which all the other are but rises and steppes. All these they maintaine to be Ecclesiasticall orders, and to be retayned in the Church, Bellarm. cap. 11. Rhe∣mist. 1. Tim. 3. sect. 7.

They haue no proofe nor warrant out of scripture, for these friuolous or∣ders, but onely a shew of antiquitie, as they alleadge certaine Canons out of the 4. Councel of Carthage, where such offices are reckoned vp, Rhemist. ibid.

Answere: First, to let passe this, that the Councel may be suspected for the credite thereof, seeming wholly to be patched out of the Popes decrees. Se∣condly, we denie not but they had such offices, as Readers, to reade the text of the scriptures, exorcists to cast out diuels, which was an extraordinary gift for that time, Acoluthists, young men appoynted to attend vpon the Bishop for their better instruction: Doore-keepers, that kept the entrie of the Church that no heathen person or excommunicate should enter. But these were both diuers offices, then are now appoynted for them in the popish Church: for they make them now, all or the most ministers and seruitors for the idola∣trous seruice of the Masse, which in those dayes was not heard of: neither though there were such offices and seruices in the Church, were they made orders and degrees of the ministerie.

Page  2003 They had other offices beside, which now are not in vse, no not amongst the papists: for they had also singers, labourers, confessors, diggers or Sextons: so that if you will make all those offices vsed in time past in the Church, so ma∣ny orders of the ministery, you must make ten or eleuen: more, then you doe ac∣knowledge, or vse in your Church, Fulk. annot. 1. Tim. 3. sect. 7.

The Protestantes.

THe question is not betweene vs and our aduersaries in this place, concer∣ning the titles and dignities annexed to the ministerie, as of Bishops, Arch∣deacons, Deanes, Prouosts, but of the seuerall orders of the Ministery: For Bi∣shops and other ministers doe not differ in order, but in office of gouernment: They holde that there are seuen seuerall such orders, which haue their seuerall rites of consecration, and peculiar offices in the Church allotted them. But we content ourselues with those orders onely and degrees as necessary, which the holy scripture hath commended, Fulk. ibid.

1 As for the names and offices of Subdeacons, Readers, Exorcists, Aco∣lythi, doore-keepers, we haue no such warrant out of the scripture, to make them orders of the Church: and therefore we condemne them. All necessary orders for the edifying & building of the Church, the scripture hath prescribed vs, Eph. 4.11. there are al offices set down needful for the doctrine, instruction, & edifying of the Church: Fulk. Ephes. 4. sect. 4. Wherefore away with these popish orders, inuented by men. But as for vnable offices and seruices, which shall be thought meete for the affayres and busines of the Church, they may bee retayned and kept, but not as new orders of the ministerie.

2 These offices are first Idolatrous, as they are nowe vsed among the pa∣pists, for the Deacons, Subdeacons, Acolythi, were to attend vpon the Priest at Masse. Secondly, some of their offices were ridiculous, as to sweepe the Church, to driue out dogs, and to holde a fly-flap of Peacoks feathers, to keep the flies from falling into the cōmunion cup.* Thirdly, they were distinguished, by ridiculous ornaments & attire, which were proper to euery one of them: as it shall appeare now in their description.

From the Priest when he was disgraded, they tooke the Chalice, patine, and host, that he should haue no power any more to offer sacrifice: they scraped his nayles with a peece of glasse, and so tooke away his annoynting: and lastly, they tooke away his priestly ornamēts, the Cheile, which signified charitie, the Stole, that represented the signe of our Lord. Frō the Deacons in their disgrada∣tion, they tooke first the booke of the Gospels, and so all power to read the Gos∣pels: Then they tooke away his Dalmatike a signe of his Leuiticall office, and the white Stole behinde his backe that signified innocencie.

From the Subdeacon they tooke the book of the Epistles, that he should haue no more power to reade them, also the emptie Chalice, and Subdeacons ve∣sture: his office was to serue and minister to the Deacons at the Altar.

The Acolythi did light the candles in the Church, and brought wine and Page  201 water to the altar in pitchers and bottels: and in his degradation there was taken from him, an emptie flaggon or bottle, and a candlestick, with a waxe candle put out.

The order of exorcisme was taken away, by depriuing him from power to reade in the booke of exorcismes.

From the Reader they tooke the booke of Church lectures or lessons. Last of all, from the doore-keeper was taken the keyes of the Church: And so was hee depriued of all power to open or shut the Church doores, and to ring the bels. Ex Fox pag. 2134.

Thus we see, how much these offices are degenerate from the ancient vse: First, they are all but Ministers and attendants for the abominable sacrifice of the masse, which in those dayes was not knowen, for the Acoluthus or waiter waiteth vpon the Subdeacon, the Subdeacon vpon the Deacon, and all of them vpon the Priest at Masse. Secondly, whereas then the Exorcists had a peculiar grace of God to cast out diuels: their Exorcists do but reade certaine exorcismes in bookes, their Readers onely read the text of scripture: now they reade the legends of popish saints. Then in time of persecution, when Christians assem∣bled in the night, the wayters had the charge to light the candles, but now they doe light them at noone day.

3 These offices haue not been in vse these many yeares among the papists themselues: for many times the Sexton or his boy, doe execute the charge both of Acolites, Ostiaries and Readers, yea of Deacons and Subdeacons also, when the Priest with his boy can dispatch a Masse. Neither are these orders retayned amongst them, for any especiall seruice or office, but onely as praeparatories, and steps and degrees to the priesthood, Fulk. annot. 1. Timoth. 3. sect. 7.

THE SECOND PART OF THE DIFFE∣rence of Bishops and other Ministers.
The Papists.

WE differ from them in two poynts: First, they say, that Bishops are not onely in a higher degree of superioritie to other Ministers, but they are as Princes of the Clergie, and other Ministers as subiects, and in all things to bee commaunded by them. Secondly, they affirme that Bishops are onely properly Pastors, and that to them onely it doth appertaine to preach, and that other Mi∣nisters haue no authoritie without their license or consent, to preach at all, and that not principally or chiefely, but solie and wholie to them appertayneth the right of consecrating and giuing orders.

For the first, for the princely authoritie of Bishops, whom they would haue obeyed in all things; they wrast these and such like places of scripture: as 2. Cor. 1.9. I write vnto you, to know whether you will be obedient in all things, Page  202Ergo, they must be absolutely obeyed. Answere: the Apostle challengeth on∣ly obedience in such things, as he should commaund agreeable to Gods word, for if I my selfe (sayth he) preach another Gospell, holde me accursed, Galat. 1. Fulk. annot. 1. Cor. 2. sect. 3.

2 Against an Elder receiue no accusation vnder two or three witnesses, 1. Tim. 5.19. Ergo, the authority of Bishops is absolute and princelike: Videmus Episcopum iudicem esse presbyterorum, proinde verum principem, wee see the Bi∣shop is the iudge of the Elders, Ergo, a prince ouer them, Bellarm cap. 14.

Answere: First, it followeth not, Bishops haue iurisdiction and authoritie ouer other Ministers, Ergo, they are princes ouer them. Can there be no preemi∣nence and superioritie in the Church, but it must needes be princelike? Is euery iudge a prince ouer those, which are brought before him to be iudged? 2. Timo∣thie had no such princelike authority, for here it is restrained & limited, a rule is set down by the Apostle which he must obserue: Ergo, his authoritie was not ab∣solute. Thirdly, Saint Paul was so farre off from making Timothie a prince in the Church at Ephesus, that he would rather haue him not to rebuke, but to exhort the Elders as fathers, the younger men as brethren, cap. 5.1. Where now is his princely authoritie become, whereas he maketh his subiects (as our aduersaries call inferior Ministers) his fathers and brethren?

For the second, the Apostles properly had the preaching of the word com∣mitted vnto them, Act. 6. For other were chosen to attend vpon tables: the Apostles also onelie had the right of laying on of hands, Act. 14.23. Ergo, It is proper onely to Bishops to preach, and to ordayne, who are the Apostles suc∣cessors, Bellarmin.

Answere: First, Bellarmine denieth that Bishops doe properly succeed the Apostles, de pontifice lib. 4.25. because he would magnifie the Pope his ghost∣ly father aboue all Bishops: but now forgetting himselfe, hee sayth, Episcopi propriè succedunt Apostolis, Bishops doe properly succeede the Apostles, cap. 14. & so by this reason euery Bishop hath as ful authoritie as the Pope. Second∣ly,* euery godly & faithful Bishop is a successor to the Apostles, we denie it not, & so are all faithfull and godly pastors & Ministers: for Christ prayeth for them all indifferently, hauing first praied for his Apostles, Iohn 17.20. I pray not for these alone, sayth our Sauiour, but for al them which shal beleeue in me through their word. Thirdly, at that time when the Deacons were elected, the congre∣gation was at Ierusalem, neither were there as yet any other Pastors ordai∣ned, & therefore the Apostles only attēded vpon preaching of the word: but af∣terward when they had ordayned Pastors in other Churches, to them also ful∣ly was committed the word of reconciliation, Ephes. 4.11. Christ hath giuen some to be Apostles, some Prophets, some Pastors and teachers: So that Pastors & teachers, though ordained first by the Apostles, yet had their calling of God, and together in their calling, authoritie and commission to preach, neither being once ordayned, needed they to expect anie further license from the Apostles.

Page  203And as for the right of ordayning and imposition of handes, though it were chiefly in the Apostles, yet the Pastors and Elders together with them layde on their handes, Act. 13.4. Yea the Rhemists confesse as much, that when a Priest is to be ordered, the rest of the Priests together with the Bishop doe lay on their hands, Annotat. 1. Timoth. 4.18. What doth this else signi∣fie, but that they haue some interest in ordayning together with the Bi∣shop? The law also must be changed, Heb. 7.12. that is, the manner and forme of the priesthood. But we easily see your drift: you would gladly haue vs like of this argument, that in stead of a high Priest in the law, you might bring a Pope into the Church.

The Protestantes.

FIrst, though we doe admitte, that for auoyding of schisme, the Church hath thought it meete, there should be difference in degree and a superioritie a∣mong Ministers, yet your princely dominion which you doe vrge, in no wise must be admitted.

1 It is contrary to the rule of Christ. Luk. 22.25. the Kings of the nations are Lords ouer them, and they that haue authoritie ouer them, are called bene∣factors: Here our Sauiour speaketh not of tyrannical dominion (for how could tyrants be benefactors?) but forbiddeth, that there should be any such prince∣like and pompous preeminence among ecclesiasticall persons, as there is a∣mong secular and ciuill gouernours: A superioritie may be graunted, but not as the Prince is ouer his subiects: it was so in time of popery, that the peo∣ple were halfe subiects to the Prince and halfe subiects to their spirituall gouer∣nours: But though we acknowledge other ecclesiasticall fathers and pastors, yet we are subiects onely to our prince.

2 Saint Peter also is flat against this princely rule and dominion, Feede the flock, sayth he, not as Lords ouer Gods heritage, but that you may bee ensam∣ples, 1. Pet. 5.3. But are not they, I pray you, Lords ouer the flock, that chal∣lenge to be princes?

Secondly, concerning the power of preaching, we affirme, that euery pa∣stor once ordayned, hath sufficient authoritie to preach in his owne flocke and charge,* as Iohn Husse notably prooued to their face out of a certayne glose in the fift booke of the decretals, that when as the Bishop ordayneth a∣nie Priest, he giueth him also therewithall authoritie to preach. Wee denie not, but when there is iust occasion, this authoritie maybe restrayned by the Church gouernours, and so also may an euill Minister be suspended from his whole ministerie: But the power before spoken of, hee hath at his first recei∣uing of orders: We thus shew it.

Whatsoeuer belongeth to the office of a Minister set ouer a flocke or charge, hee receiueth the power thereof when he is ordayned: But to preach the word, belongeth to the office of such: for preaching is properly the fee∣ding of the people.

Page  204But see the absurditie of the papists: they say it is not proper to the priest∣hood to preach, but onely to haue power to sacrifice the body of Christ: But it is proper to the Bishop, say they, to preach. We answere: First, then the Bishop is properly the pastor of euery flocke and congregation in his diocesse, for hee that properly feedeth, is properly the Pastor: And hee that is properly the Pastor, hath the charge of soules properly, yea more, then hath the parti∣cular Pastor: for he is improperly their Pastor, but as it were the Bishops sub∣stitute and Vicar: But what Bishop in the worlde is able to beare so great a burthen, to haue the especiall and proper charge of all the soules in his dio∣cesse? It is not to be denied, but he hath a charge of their soules, as a Christi∣an Prince also hath in some respect of his subiects: but to say hee is the proper Pastor, and hath the proper & principall charge of soules in teaching and fee∣ding of them (for the question is now of preaching, not of gouerning) who is able to abide it? Secondly, but our Rhemists tell vs another tale, that many that are not able to preach, are meete enough to bee Bishops, 1. Timoth. 5. sect. 13. Ergo, it is not proper to Bishops neither to preach. I pray you then, for whom is it proper? if neither for Bishops nor inferior Pastors, then for none. Thirdly, they make but seuen orders of Ecclesiasticall Mini∣sters, and the priesthood is the chiefe: for a Bishop and a priest make but one order, as Bellarmin. confesseth cap. 11. But to none of all these orders it is proper to preach: for seeing it is not proper to the priest, none of the infe∣rior orders can challenge it. See then what goodly orders these are, which leaue the very chiefe parte of the ministery vndone, which is the preaching of the word. I thinke their meaning is, that this preaching is not so necessary a du∣tie, but may be well spared in the Church.

2 That which a man is bound to doe vnder paine of the curse of GOD, that he may lawfully performe in due order without the leaue of men: but a woe is layd vpon them that preach not the Gospell, where they are bound, 1. Cor. 9.16.*Ergo. Argum. Wicliffi.

3 A man is bound to giue corporal almes to the poore, the needie, the hun∣gry, the thirstie, neither is he to craue leaue of any: Ergo, much more to teach the ignorant, to comfort the weake, and doe other dueties appertayning to his charge, Argum. Wicliffi.

Concerning the power of giuing orders: As Saint Paul speaketh of the laying on of his handes, 2. Timoth. 1.6. so he maketh mention of imposition of hands by the Eldership: 1. Timoth, 4.14. And the Rhemists vpō that place mislike not the practise of the Church, that their Priests doe lay on their handes toge∣ther with the Bishop vpon his head that is to be ordayned. So that by this it is manifest, that imposition of hands doth not wholly and folie belong vnto the Bishop, seeing the rest of the Elders were wont to lay on their hands likewise, or the Bishop in the name of the rest, Fulk. annot. Tit. 1. sect. 2. So that the Elders were not excluded.

Page  205
THE THIRD PART, CONCERNING THE office and title of Cardinals.
The Papists.

BEllarmine would faine haue the office of Cardinals, as ancient as the Apostles [error 72] times: and the name to be worthilie appropriated to the See of Rome, that as the Pope himselfe by his prudence and holines, is, tanquam cardo Ecclesiae, to the Church as the hingell to the dore, vpon the which it is turned and borne vp: so his Counsellers and assistants should be called Cardinals, hauing the care of the Vniuersall Church: but the Iesuite, beside some vaine shew of mothworne antiquitie, hath not one good argument to proue the name, and office of Cardinals, to be either ancient or commendable. Then especiall office, as they are Cardinals, is to elect and chuse the Pope, and to be assistant vnto him in Counsell, for the gouernement of the vniuersall Church, Bellarm. cap. 16.

The Protestants.

THat neither the name of Cardinals, as proper to Rome, is ancient, nor their office, or either of them lawfull or commendable, but vsurped and Antichri∣stian, thus briefely it is shewed.

1 In Augustines time it was a common name, vsually applied, both in the good and euill parte, to chiefe and principall men of any place, or sect: as he calleth the ringleaders of the Donatists, Cardinales Donatistas, Cardinall or captaine Donatists: de baptism. lib. 1. cap. 6. Surely, if it then had been onely due to the assistants of the Romane Bishop, Augustine had been much to blame to applie the name to Heretikes.

2 Augustine thus writeth to Hierome, Quamues secundum honorum voca∣bula, saith hee, Episcopatus presbyterio maior sit, tamen in multis rebus Augustin. Hieronim. minor est. Though according to the custome of the Church, a Bi∣shop be greater then a Priest, yet Augustine a Bishop in many things is inferior to Hierome a Priest. Now Hierome was a Priest of Rome, and a Cardinall, as our aduersaries say,* and therefore they picture him commonly in a red gowne and habite of a Cardinall: yet you see Augustine as a Bishop was before him, though for his great learning he putteth himselfe behinde him.

3 Augustine in another place complaineth of one Falcidius a Deacon of Rome, qui duce stultitia, saith hee, diaconos presbyteris coaequare contendit: who being led or carried away with follie,* did goe about to make Deacons equall vn∣to Priests. Is not the same follie now generally practised in Rome, or a greater? for they doe not onely preferre Cardinall Deacons before Priests, but euen be∣fore Bishops and Archbishops: in Augustines time, this was counted a great follie.

Page  2064 Concerning the office of Cardinals in the electing of the Pope, we haue shewed before, quest. 2. part. 2. that it is of no great antiquitie: and that it is iniu∣rious to three estates, to the Emperor, who was wont to cōfirme the election, to the Clergie of Rome, who had in times past interest in the election, and to the people, whose consent was also in time past required: But now all these are ex∣cluded, and the matter is wholly referred to the Chapter of Cardinals.

THE FOVRTH QVESTION CONCERNING the Keyes of the Church, committed for the exe∣cution to the pastors and gouernors thereof.

THis question hath foure partes. First, wherein the authoritie of the keyes con∣sisteth: secondly, to whom they are committed: thirdly, whether there is absolute power of binding and loosing in the Church, or ministerially onely: fourthly, whether they that haue the dispensation of the Keyes, doe alwaies ne∣cessarily bind and loose before God: of these in order.

THE FIRST PART, WHEREIN THE AV∣thoritie and power of the Keyes consisteth.
The Papists.

[error 73] BY the Keyes and power of binding and loosing, they chiefly and principally vnderstand the censures of the Church, as Excommunications, Anathema∣tismes, suspensiōs, Degradations, & the whole Ecclesiastical iurisdictiō. Rhemist. Annot. Matt. 16. sect. 14. Bel. lib. 1. de pontif. cap. 13. Secondly, they tye remission and retaining of sinnes to their imagined and deuised sacrament of penance, saying, that where Christ gaue authoritie to remit sinnes to his Apostles, Iohn 20.23. he instituted the sacrament of penance, Rhemist. Iohn. 20. sect. 3. The sacrifice also and Sacraments of the Church, say they, are ministred for remissi∣on of sinnes, Rhemist. 2. Corinth. 5. sect. 3. Thirdly, they seeme to grant in words, that by preaching also of the Gospell, sinnes are reteined, and remitted, ibid. but they make small account thereof: for as we haue heard, they make it not of the essence of their priesthood to preach, neither doth it properly appertaine vnto that office: yea, say they, absolutiō cānot be rightly sought for at the priests hands, but by confession of our sins, which is done in penance. Rhem. Ioh. 20. sect. 5. This then is their opinion, that by their deuised ceremonie and Sacra∣ment of penance, sinnes are properly forgiuen, and that the preaching of the word is not thereto necessarie.

Their chiefe argument is, by abusing that place, Iohn 20.23. where they say Christ instituted the Sacrament of penance, when he gaue power to his Apostles to remit and reteine sinnes.

Page  207Ans. First, your Sacrament of Penance, is neither grounded vpon this, nor a∣ny other place of scripture: here in the wordes of Christ there is no institution of a sacrament, because there is no visible element giuen, whereunto the worde being added may make a sacrament. Secondly, here the commission is but re∣newed, which was granted before to his Apostles, and their successors, Matth. 18.18. Fulk. Annot. Iohn. 20. sect. 3.

The Protestants.

THe Keyes of the Church, that is, the power to bind and loose sinners, to open or shut vnto them the kingdome of God, consisteth both in the externall discipline and gouernement of the Church lawfully executed according to the word of God, as also in preaching of the Gospell, by assuring in Christs name all faithfull and penitent persons remission and forgiuenes of their sinnes, and in de∣nouncing and threatning the wrath of God against the disobedient and impeni∣tent: also as the sacraments are ioyned to the word, as seales and pledges of the promises thereof, so by the right administration of the sacraments together with the preaching of the word, sinnes are retained or remitted.

The Rhemists therefore doe vs great iniurie, in falsely charging of vs, that we should hold that the spiritual power of the Church standeth only vpon the prea∣ching of the word, whereas wee grant, that it is exercised also in the Ecclesiasti∣call gouernement of the Church, both in punishing, excommunicating & cen∣suring of offenders, which is the binding of them, and in releasing and absol∣uing them againe, which is the other power of loosing: Rhemist. 2. Corinth. cap. 10. sect. 1. Leauing now this part of spiritual power in Ecclesiasticall discipline, which is not in this place in question betweene vs, wee must touch that other part, which is exercised in the word and sacraments.

1 That the sacraments doe binde and loose, it is proued out of the word of God: they doe binde, Whosoeuer eateth & drinketh vnworthily, eateth & drin∣keth his own damnation, 1. Cor. 11.29. they doe also loose, As oft as ye shal eate this bread and drinke this cup, you shewe the Lords death, till he come, vers. 26.

But here is a double caution and condition to be annexed. First, that all Sa∣craments worke not this effect, but onely those of Christs institution, which are but two, baptisme and the supper of the Lord: for Paul saith, I haue receiued of the Lord, that which I deliuered vnto you, 1. Cor. 11.23. If the Apostles would not, neither might deliuer any Sacraments, but those which were instituted of Christ, what great presumption is it in any other to doe it? Secondly, we must not think, that remissiō of sinnes is necessarily tied to the Sacraments, as though there could be no remissiō without thē, for the grace of remission may be effec∣tual in the name of Christ, by the preaching of the word without a sacramēt, Ioh. 20. sect. 4. Ful. For the word may be preached without a sacramēt, but the sacra∣mēt cānot be ministred without the word: for that were as though a man should deliuer a seale without a writing. Neither is it our meaning, that as the Rhemists cauil with vs, the sacramēt cannot be administred without a sermon of the death Page  208 of Christ: for though that were alwaies to bee wished, yet where it cannot bee had, there must and ought to be a briefe shewing and declaration of the death of Christ out of the word, so oft as the Sacrament is administred, as it is obser∣ued in our Church. Fulk. Annot. 1. Corinth. 11. sect. 15.

3 We must take heede, we conceiue not thus, as though the Sacrament gaue grace by the worke wrought, and that by the very vse, forme, and externall act of the Sacrament wee obtaine remission of sinnes, as the Rhemists would beare vs in hand, 1. Corinth. 11. sect. 15. But the Sacraments are onely effectuall to the worthie receiuers, and to the worthie receiuing, faith is requisite, as Saint Paul willeth all men to examine themselues, 1. Corinth. 11.28. which is, as hee himselfe interpreteth it, to proue whether they be in the faith, 2. Corinth. 13.5. These conditions then being obserued, we denie not, but that there is an exer∣cise of the keyes euen in the Sacraments.

2 But chiefely and principallie, is this power dispensed by the preaching of the word, as Saint Paul saith, Wee are the sauour of death vnto death, vnto some: there is the binding: and to other the sauour of life vnto life: there is the loosing, 1. Corinth. 2.16. So our Sauiour Christ saith, He that refuseth mee, the word that I haue spoken, shall iudge him in the last day, Iohn. 12.48. Here is the power of binding: Againe, the truth shall make you free, Iohn 8.32. Here is the power of loosing. Who therefore doubteth this, that the preaching of the word is the most proper and principall way and meane, for the exercising of this Ecclesiasticall power? for seeing faith is the key of heauen, thereby wee haue free accesse vnto the throne of grace, Rom. 5.2. and faith commeth by hea∣ring, Rom. 10.17. and hearing by the word: It remaineth that by the word the keyes are dispensed.

Augustine also subscribeth vnto this: for speaking of reformation of life and repentance with remission of former sinnes, thus he saith, Quid empturus es vt facias, quae emplastra quaesiturus? ecce cùmloquor, muta cor, & factum est, quod tam saepe & tam diu clamatur, vt fiat. in Psal. 63. What medicine or plai∣ster wilt thou buie to heale thy sinne? Behold euen now, while I preach vnto thee, change thy heart, and it is already done, which we so often call vpon you to be done: See then by the preaching of the word our heart is chaunged, our life amended, and our sinne remitted.

THE SECOND PART, TO WHOM THE authoritie of the keyes is committed.
The Papists.

[error 74] THe authoritie and power of excommunication, say they, is not in the whole Church, but onely in the Prelates: neither was the power of binding and loosing giuen vnto the whole church: but in their own name, not in the name or right of the Church, doe the pastors and Prelates exercise this power, Remist. 2. Page  209 1. Corinth. 5. sect. 3. Bellarm. lib. 1. de Clericis cap. 7. The Church is sayd to binde and loose, because the Prelates doe binde & loose, as a man is said to speake, and see, though he onely speake with the tongue, and see with the eyes.

1 They seeme to proue it by S. Paules example, 1. Corinth. 5. I absent in bo∣die but present in spirit haue decreed: S. Paul vseth here his Apostolike power, in sending his letters and Mandatum, to haue the incestuous person excommu∣nicate: Ergo, the right was in him and not in the Church, and so consequently in the Bishops his successors.

Ans. First, S. Paul sendeth no Mandatum, but sheweth his Apostolike power, in decreeing the incestuous person worthy of excommunication, and requiring the same to be executed by the Church, Fulk. 1. Corin. 5. sec. 2. Secondly, though Paul gaue the sentence, yet was it done both in the power of Christ and the name of the whole Church: for he had decreed onely that he should be excom∣municate: it was not actually done: but to the due performing thereof there is required, the congregating of the Church in Christs name, the presence of Paul in spirit by his apostolike power, & that it should be done in the name of Christ. Al this sheweth, that Paul gaue sentence in the name of the whole Church.

2 Paul (they say) by the preeminent power of his Ministerie, pardoneth the incestuous person whom he had excommunicate, Rhemist. argument. in 1. ad Corinth.

Ans. The text is plaine, that he consenteth the Church should pardon him, 2. Corinth. 2.10. To whom you forgiue any thing I forgiue also. Heere not Paul onely, but the whole Church pardoneth, Fulk. ibid.

3 The Iesuites simile may bee returned vpon his owne head: for as the eye and tongue in the bodie are but instruments of the life and power of the soule, which quickneth the whole bodie: so the gouernours of the Church do execute the discipline of the Church by the spirit of Christ, which is giuen to the whole bodie.

The Protestants.

THe authoritie of excōmunication pertaineth to the whole Church, although the execution and iudgement thereof, to auoyd confusion, be committed to the gouernours of the Church which exercise that authoritie, as in the name of Christ, so in the name of the whole Church, Fulk. totidem verbis, annot. 1. Cor. 5. sect. 3.

1 Math. 18.17. If he wil not heare thee tell the Church: this place proueth, that although the exercising of the keyes be referred to the gouernours of the Church; yet the authoritie and right is in the whole Church: for the keyes were giuen to the whole Church. The pastors and gouernours, though they be excel∣lent and principall members of the Church, yet are they improperly called the Church, Argument. Illyrici.

2 We conclude the same also out of S. Paules words, 1. Cor. 2.21. All things are yours, whether Paul, Apollos, or Cephas, whether things present, or things to come, and ye are Christs, and Christ Gods: Ergo, whatsoeuer power is in the Page  210 Church, it is the Churches, not onely the common vse and the benefite thereof, (because it may be answered, that although the keyes be onely granted to the Prelates, yet they vse them to the good of the Church) but the right also and possession thereof, euen as the Church is the inheritance and proper possession of Christ.

3 Augustine consenteth: Ecclesia, quae fundatur in Christo, claues ab eo regni coelorum accepit in Petro. Tract. in Iohann. 124. The Church, which is founded vpon Christ, receiued in Peter the keyes of the kingdome of heauen: But the whole Church, and not onely the Pastors, is founded and builded vpon Christ: Ergo.

THE THIRD PART, WHETHER THE PASTORS of the Church haue any absolute power to remit sinnes, otherwise, then as Ministers onely.
The Papistes.

[error 75] THey spare not to say, that Priests haue full right to remit sinnes, and are not ministers onely thereof and dispensers, but haue full power as Christ had, and he that doubteth of their right herein, may as well doubt whether Christ had authoritie as man to remit sinnes, Rhemist. annot. Iohn 20. sect. 3. And againe, they call it an expresse power and commission, yea a wonderfull power which is giuen vnto Priests to remit sinnes, and therfore it followeth necessarily, that men should submit themselues to their iudgement, for release of their sinnes, Annot. Iohn 20. sect. 5.

1 They reason thus out of our Sauiours owne words, Iohn 20.21. As my fa∣ther hath sent me, so I send you. He sheweth his fathers commission giuen to himselfe, and then in plaine termes most amply imparteth the same to his Apo∣stles: But Christ had full right to remit sinnes: Ergo, also the Apostles and their successors: for they haue the same power that Christ had, Rhemist. annot. Iohn 20. sect. 3.

Ans. First, it is great presumption, and spoken without any ground, to say, that Christ, by sending his Apostles into the world, gaue them as full, large, and ample commission, as he himselfe had: for neither the Pope, in whom remai∣neth, as they say, the Apostolike authoritie, by their owne confession, can doe all that Christ did, as to ordaine and institute Sacraments: and Christ (say they) might forgiue sinnes without the Sacraments, which the Pope cannot doe, and so consequently neither the Apostles, whose full iurisdiction he hath, in this be∣halfe, Bellarm. de pontif. lib. 5. cap. 4. Secondly, the power therefore here granted to the Apostles, is in the name of Christ, to declare and pronounce remission of sinnes, according to the wil of God, not properly in their owne power to release or absolue sinners.

2 He breathed vpon them, and gaue them the holy Ghost, vers. 22. There∣fore he that denieth the Priests authoritie to forgiue sinnes, he must denye the Page  211 holy Ghost to be God, and not to haue power to remit sinnes, Rhem. ibid sect. 4.

Ans. What a blasphemous consequence is this? The holy Ghost hath abso∣lute power to forgiue sinnes: Ergo, the Apostles also, and all other Priests haue the same power. First, by this meanes they make no difference betweene the fulnes of power in our Sauiour Christ, and the communication of that power to other Ministers: of Christ it is sayd, that the Spirit was not giuen him by mea∣sure, Ioh. 3.34. and that the holy Ghost dwelleth in him bodily: but it were great blasphemie so to say of any man, Apostle or Minister beside, which haue recei∣ued of the same grace, but not in the like measure that Christ hath, but the spirit is giuen to euery one in measure, as they haue neede in their seuerall places and callings. Secondly, though we should grant, that the Apostles had the full au∣thoritie of Christ actually to remit sinnes, which they shall neuer proue, yet it may be doubted, whether al Ministers, whom they call Priests, (which name we refuse not, if it be taken according to the sense of the originall word Presbyter, and not for a sacrificing priesthood) haue as full power, in this case, as the A∣postles had, nay it is plaine, they haue not: for the Apostles and other in the Primitiue Church, had power to discerne spirits, 1. Cor. 12.10. and to giue actual∣ly the bodies of the excommunicate to bee vexed, and possessed of the diuell, 1. Cor. 5.5. and after a strange manner to exercise power ouer their bodily life, as Peter did vpon Ananias and Sapphira, Act. 5: Yet we rather stand vpon this poynt, that neither the Apostles, nor any other Ministers haue power actually to remit sinnes, then onely as dispensers and stewards in the name of Christ.

The Protestants.

AL the power of binding and loosing committed to the Apostles and to the Ministers of the word and Sacraments, is, by declaring the will and pleasure of God out of his word, both to pronounce forgiuenes of sinnes to all, that are truely penitent, & the reteining of them to the obstinate and impenitent, Fulk. annot. Iohn 20. sect. 3. So that Ministers are not made iudges in this case, but on∣ly as the Lords ambassadors, to declare the will of God out of his word.

1 There is a notable place for this purpose, 2. Corinth. 5.18. God hath recon∣ciled vs vnto himselfe through Iesus Christ, and hath giuen vs the ministerie of reconciliation. So then Christ is the onely author of reconciliation, the Apostles are but ministers: how then say the Rhemists, that Christ himselfe is but a mini∣ster also of our reconciliation, yet a chiefe minister, whereas the Apostle ma∣keth him the author? God was in Christ reconciling the world to himselfe, vers. 19. Wee are but ambassadors for Christ, and pray you in Christs stead, to bee reconciled vnto God: this then is the office of Ministers, not to re∣concile men vnto God, but to pray them to bee reconciled through Christ: Christ onely is the reconciler, they but ministers of reconciliation: They are but messengers and ambassadors, onely to declare their Princes pleasure; Page  212 their commission is certaine, beyond that they cannot goe. Wherefore that is a blasphemous decretal, and cleane contrarie to the scripture, which is ascribed but falsely, to Pontianus Bishop of Rome, which sayth, that God hath Priests so familiar, that by them he forgiueth the sinnes of others, and reconcileth them vnto him, Fox. pag. 59. But S. Paul sayth, that God onely by Christ reconcileth vs vnto himselfe.

2 Augustine doth very freely vtter his minde concerning this matter, who putteth this obiection: If men doe not forgiue sinnes, then it should seeme to be false which Christ sayth, Whatsoeuer you bind in earth is bound in heauen. He answereth: Daturus erat dominus hominibus spiritum sanctum, &c. God was to giue vnto men the holy Ghost, by whom their sinnes should be forgiuen them. Spiritus dimittit, non vos; spiritus autem Deus est: Deus ergo dimittit, non vos: the spirit therefore remitteth sinne, and not you: the spirit is God, God forgiueth sinnes, and not you. Here is one argument, God onely forgiueth sinnes: Ergo, not man. Againe, Quides homo nisi aeger sanandus? vis mihi esse medicus? mecum quae∣re medicum. O man what art thou that takest away my sinnes, but a sicke man thy selfe? wouldest thou be my phisition? nay, let vs both together goe seeke a phisition that may heale vs. Lo, another argument: He cannot be a phisition to others, that needeth a phisition himselfe: he cannot reconcile others to God, who hath himselfe neede of a reconciler. Further, he sayth: Qui dimittit per ho∣minem, potest dimittere praeter hominem: non enim minus est idoneus per se dare, qui potest per alium dare. He that can forgiue sinnes by man, can forgiue also with∣out man: for he may as well forgiue by himselfe, as he can doe it by another. Here is then the third argument: If man doe actually forgiue sinnes, then Christ should not forgiue sinnes without man:* for the whole power is committed to man. Yea, the Rhemists affirme the same, that it is necessarie we should submit our selues to the iudgement of the Priest for release of our sinnes: if it bee neces∣sarie, then sinnes cannot be remitted without the Priest: then is Christs power limited, he cannot forgiue without man, which is contrarie to that Augustine affirmeth here.

THE FOVRTH PART, WHETHER STRAIGHT waies whatsoeuer be loosed or bound by the ministerie of men vpon earth, be so in heauen.
The Papists.

AN expresse power (say they) is giuen vnto Priests to remit and reteyne [error 76] sinnes: And Christ promiseth, that whose sinnes soeuer they forgiue, they are forgiuen of God, and whose sinnes soeuer they retaine, they are retained of God, Rhemist. annot. Iohn 20. sect. 5. Whereby it appeareth it is their opinion, which is manifest also by the practise of their Church, that at the will and plea∣sure Page  213 of euerie priest exercising the keyes vpon earth, men are bound and loo∣sed in heauen.

They ground this their opinion vpon the generalitie of the wordes: Whosoeuers sinnes you remit they are remitted, Iohn 20.23. and Math. 18.18. Whatsoeuer you binde in earth shall be bound in heauen.

Answere: These places are not so to be vnderstood, as though God were bound to ratifie euery decree of men vpon earth: for first this power is gi∣uen to all lawfull pastors which doe holde the Apostolike fayth, not to Ido∣latrous, ignorant and blasphemous priests, such as most, if not all, of the po∣pish sorte are. Secondly, they must decree in the earth according to Gods wil: Wherefore Iohn 20.22. first Christ breatheth his spirite vpon his Apostles, and then giueth them their commission: signifiyng hereby, that they must execute this power as they shall be directed by Gods spirite: and Matth. 18.20. it followeth, that they must be assembled in the name of Christ: that is, accor∣ding to Christs rule and the direction of his word, they must binde and loose, and not at their owne discretion.

The Protestants.

THat no sentence or decree of men bindeth or looseth before God in hea∣uen, but that which is pronounced according to the will and pleasure of GOD, and by the warrant of his worde, the scripture euery where tea∣cheth vs.

1 Prouer. 26.2. As the sparrow by flying escapeth, so the curse that is causelesse shall not come. Isay 5.20. Woe vnto them that speake good of euill, and euill of good: Hee that iustifieth the wicked and condemneth the iust, they are both an abomination to GOD, Prouer. 17.15. Wherefore a priest binding a penitent man, and loosing a wicked man, doth flatly trans∣gresse the law and rule of Gods word: neither shall his sentence be ratified in heauen.

2 In saying that whosoeuers sinnes the priest bindeth or looseth, his sen∣tence standeth in effect before God, they must needes admit one or both of these absurdities: either to grant, that a Priest cannot erre in dispensing of the eyes, which were too shamefull a saying, to giue so great a priuiledge to euery ignorant and simple priest, (such as their Church hath great store of) which no mortall man can haue. Saint Paul giueth warning to Timothie, who was more then a common or ordinarie minister, that he lay not his handes sodaynly vpon any, ad 1. Timoth. 5. vers. 22. But if Timothie so excellent a man had been free from erring in executing his function, this exhortation of Saynt Paule had been needlesse and superfluous.

Or else, they must say that the iudgement of mens soules is committed vn∣to them: for if, looke, how they pronounce vpon men on earth, euen so it fareth with them before GOD: then the saluation and damnation of men Page  214 dependeth of their sentence: But the scripture sayth, Doe not iudge thy brother, for we shal al appeare before the iudgement seate of Christ, Rom. 14.10. Men therefore are not iudges to pronounce who are saued or damned, but the iudgement must be committed to Christ.

But who knoweth not that the popish Church doth arrogate vnto them∣selues this power, to define who are Saynts in heauen, and whose soules are tormented in hell? Thus they dealt with Iohn Husse: hauing condemned him, they set a crowne of paper vpon his head pictured with diuels, saying vnto him: Now we commit thy soule to the diuel. At the burning of that wor∣thie seruant of God and blessed martyr, Iohn Frith, one Doctor Cooke, a fowle mouthed papist bid the people to pray no more for him, then they would for a dogge.* And thus they take the Lords office out of his hand, in taking vpon them to be iudges of men.

3 I will conclude with Augustines words, he sayth, that sinnes are forgi∣uen or not forgiuen, non secundum arbitrium hominum, sed secundum arbitrium dei, & orationes sanctorum: not after the will and pleasure of men, but accor∣ding to the will of God, and at the prayers of deuout and holie men.

THE FIFT QVESTION CONCERNING the lawfulnesse of mariage in Ministers.

THis question hath three partes: first, whether it bee expedient or requisite that all Ministers should be tied vnto single life. Secondly, whether men twice maried are to be admitted into the ministerie. Thirdly, whether Mini∣sters hauing entred into holie orders, ought to renounce the societie of their wiues before maried.

THE FIRST PART, WHETHER IT BE lawfull for Ministers to marrie.
The Papists.

[error 77] BEllarmine confesseth that single life is not imposed vpon Ministers by the lawe of God, for there is no precept either in the olde or new testament, that forbiddeth Ministers to marrie: but it is a positiue law of the Church, most ancient and most iust, kept and obserued euen since the Apostles time. And therefore it is not now lawfull for Ministers to marrie, cap. 18. lib. de Clericis.

1 1. Timoth. 2.3. the Apostle sayth, that no man that warreth, entangleth himselfe with the affayres of this life: But to bee maried and to haue care of houshold, are counted amongst the affayres and busines of this life: Ergo, a Mi∣nister who is the Lords souldier, ought not to entangle himselfe therewith, Bellarmin.

Ans. First, the Iesuite before confessed, that they had no scripture against Mi∣nisters mariage, how is it then, that now he pleadeth scripture? Secondly, we must put the Iesuite in minde of his owne exposition of this place, lib. 5. de Page  215 pontif. cap. 10. where, this place being alleadged against the temporall do∣minion of Ecclesiasticall persons, he answereth, that this place onely forbid∣deth negotiationes, and mercimonia, merchandise and traffick in the worlde, not regimen politicum, not politicall regiment. If then the politicall care of a ci∣tie, prouince, or common-wealth be no impediment, in his iudgement, to the spirituall warfare: much lesse without all question is the domesticall care of one familie, the charge of wife and children. Thirdly, we vtterly denie, that mariage is an hinderance or let to the calling of Ministers: nay we say, that it is an helpe and comfort to those that haue not the proper gifte of conti∣nencie.

2 The Iesuite giueth diuers instances, wherein mariage is a let and im∣pediment to ministers: As, it hindreth their prayer, their preaching, their almes and liberalitie to the poore, for they haue wife and children to care for. Bellarmin.

Answere: First, belike you esteeme of mariage as of an vnholie and vn∣pure thing, that a man can neither pray, nor doe the office of a Christian performing the duetie to his wife: and indeede one of your companions cal∣leth mariage a prophanation of sacred orders. Greg. Martin. discouer. cap. 15. sect. 11. Whereas the Apostle calleth it an honourable state, Heb. 13. and it was instituted in Paradise, whereas before the fall of man there was no vncleane thing. Secondly, we denie not, but that abuse of mariage both in ministers and other lay-men, is an impediment to all holie actions: and therefore Saint Paul giueth generall Counsell to all both ministers and others, that they which haue wiues should bee as though they had none, 1. Cor. 7.29. that is, should liue soberly in mariage, and not giue themselues to the wantonnes of the flesh. Thirdly, neither doth mariage hinder hospitalitie: for Saint Paul re∣quiring that a minister should be harborous, 1. Tim. 3.2. giueth also rules con∣cerning the gouernement of his familie, his wife and children. vers 4.11. For to whom may he better commit the care of houshold affayres then to his wife? And that familie which is guided by a carefull & godly huswife, we see by ex∣perience, to yeeld more reliefe to the poore, and giue entertainement to stran∣gers, then those houses which haue none. And where it is obiected, that Mi∣nisters will care altogether for their children: It hath been seene that single priests in time of poperie, haue been more couetous and greedie to enrich their kinred, then maried Ministers haue cared for the prouision of their children.

3 Single life by the Apostle is preferred before the maried estate, and there∣fore fittest for Ministers: for he that is maried careth for the things of the world, 1. Cor. 7 33. Rhemist.

Ans. First, single life is preferred before mariage, in all men, & not onely in Ministers: And therefore as lay-men are not bound to single life, though it be in it self more conuenient, so neither ought ministers to bee. 2. Though a thing in it selfe be best, yet is it not vniuersally best for euery man: as riches are better then pouertie, because they are Gods blessing: yet is it not best Page  216 for euery man to be rich: God seeth it good, that some men should be poore: So single life is the best for those that haue the gift of chastitie, that can with a quiet conscience liue single: otherwise matrimonie were much better: for Saint Paul, that wisheth that euery one would liue single as hee did, yet after∣ward sayth, It is better to marrie then to burne: So that by the Apostles iudge∣ment, to marrie is best for him that hath not the gift of continencie. Iewel. pag. 232. defens. Apolog.

The Protestants.

THat it is not onely lawfull but conuenient, that all men both Ministers and others, that haue not receiued a proper gift of continencie, should marrie, and that it is agreeable and consonant to the word of God: thus wee shew it.

1 The scriptures are most playne for the mariage of Ministers, 1. Timoth. 3.2. Saynt Paul sayth a Bishop, and generally euery Minister, may be the husband of one wife: and verse 11. their wiues are described, howe they ought to behaue themselues: Let their wiues be honest. Ergo, it is lawfull for them to bee maried. Bellarmine answereth, that Saynt Paul speaketh of the wiues which they had before their calling and ordayning, not those, which they should marry after. But there appeareth no such thing out of the text: Nay Saint Paul, say wee, had libertie as well as others, to leade about a sister a wife, euen after hee was an Apostle, 1. Corinth. 9. Wherefore it is as lawfull afterward as afore. Bellarmine answereth: We must thus read, a Sister a woman, and it is like they were women, that did minister vnto the Apostles and followed them. We replie: First, the word Sister, doth implie a woman, and therefore it had been an improper and needlesse speech, to say, a sister a woman: there∣fore we must rather read, a sister a wife. Secondly, if they were other women, which ministred of their substance, what neede the Apostles to be mayntained of the Churches? if they ministred but in their seruice and attendance, who were more fit to doe it and to follow them from place to place then their wiues? Thirdly, the phrase of leading about a sister, importeth a superioritie and autho∣rity, such as the husband hath ouer his wife.

Another place we haue, Hebr. 13.3. Mariage is honourable among all men: Ergo, amongst Ministers. Bellarmin. If it were meant of all mariages, then to marrie within the degrees of consanguinitie, were also honourable. Answere: This is a very childish cauill: First, hee might haue read further, And the bedde vndefiled: Saint Paul therefore speaketh of lawfull mariage: and indeede the other ioyning and coupling of men and women together contrarie to GODS lawe, is not to bee counted Matrimonie or Wed∣locke, but Incest rather and Fornication, as the brother to marrie his brothers wife, and such like. Secondly, Saint Paul sayth, not all mariages are honourable, but mariage is honourable for all men; the generalitie is not of the thing, but the persons: Wherefore we doe fittly conclude out of this Page  217 place, that marriage is lawful and commendable euen among ministers. argum. Caluin.

Further Saint Paul saith, For auoyding of fornication, let euery man haue his owne wife, 1. Corinth. 7.2. Here is no restraint for Ministers. Bellarm. this is to be vnderstoode of those that haue not made a vow of continency. Answer: First, our Sauiour Christ commaundeth no such vowes: it is a cruell Antichristian yoke laide vpon Ministers, to binde them, when they receiue orders, to vowe single life: & therefore your Antichristian decree ought not to abridge the ge∣nerall libertie granted by the Apostle. Secondly, the end of marriage is gene∣rall, to auoyde fornication, and therefore the remedie also is generall: for euerie man hauing not a proper gift of continencie, may be in danger of that inconue∣nience, if he be denyed the ordinarie helpe. Melancthon.

Againe, 1. Timoth. 4. to forbid marriage is called a doctrine of diuels: but the Popish Church forbiddeth marriage. Bellarm. Wee doe not forbid marri∣age to any, but we require single life of all that are entred into orders, which, it is at their owne choyce to receiue, or to refuse. Ans. First, it is necessarie that some should receiue orders, and be consecrate to the Church ministerie: where∣fore requiring this condition of all such to liue single, though particularly you prohibite not this man or that to marrie, yet generally you prohibite the whole calling, which is worse. Secondly, if you say you doe not forbid marriage sim∣plie to all: no more did the Manichees, for they suffered their scholars and au∣ditors to marrie. And Saint Augustines words are generall. Ille prohibet matri∣monium, qui illud malum esse dicit: he forbiddeth marriage,* that thinketh it is euil: you therefore forbidding marriage, must needs hold opinion that is wicked and euill.

2 This restraint of the marriage of Ministers, hath not been of ancient time in the Church, but imposed vpon the Church of late, 1000. yeere after Christ: Polycrates Bishop of Ephesus anno 180. had seuen of his progenitors before him Bishops of the same See. In the Nicene Councel Paphnutius stoode vp, and stayed the decree, that should haue past, for restraining of the marriage of Ministers, and it is saide, Synodus landauit sententiam Paphnutij: The Synod commended Paphnutius sentence. Sozomen. lib. 1. cap. 11. Gregorie the father of Gregorie was Bishop of Nazianzum. The Greeke Church neuer yet receiued this popish decree of single life, and their Bishops are married at this day. Bel∣larmine saith, that the Church of Rome hath dispenced with them, cap. 18. Ergo if the Pope would dispence with the Latine Church, it might be lawfull enough then for Ministers to marrie; wherefore it is but a humane constitution. A∣gaine, it is false that they haue dispenced with the Greeke Church: they care not for their dispensations, but vse their owne Christian libertie: neither was the Greeke Church euer subiect to the Bishop of Rome.

Thus we see, that in times past marriage was lawfull for all men, vntill Pope Nicholas the second, Alexander the second, and Gregorie the seuenth, that no∣table sorcerer and adulterer: for these three comming together, one not long Page  218 after another, began by publike decree to restraine Priests marriage: not long after them, Anselme began to play the Rex here in England, anno 1104. who stoutely proceeded in his vngodly purpose,* and enacted that married Priests should either leaue their wiues, or their benefices. At which time 200. Priests at once came barefoote to the Kings palace, to make complaint: And for all Anselmes Popelike and outragious proceedings against married Priests, yet they continued married well nie two hundred yeeres after Anselmes time,* doe what he could: and thus it is manifest, that the restraint of Ministers marriage is no ancient thing, but then began most to be vrged, when Antichrist fullie was reuealed to the world, when as the orders of Friers came in and were con∣firmed and priuiledged vnder Boniface 8. about anno 1300.

3 What better argument can we haue against this Popish decree, then the great vncleannes, and foule enormities that haue been brought, by the meanes thereof, into the Church? In the time of Gregorie the first, who enioyned his Clergie to liue single, commaunding on a time his seruants to catch him some fish, out of his Motes and Ponds, in stead of fish they brought vnto him sixe thousand heads of yong children: whereupon, he fetching a great sigh with himselfe, commended then the saying of the Apostle, It is better to marrie then to burne. Bellarmine hath no better answere then to denie the storie, which not∣withstanding is found in the Epistle of Huldericus Bishop of Augusta, which he sent to Pope Nicholas. Fox. pag. 1155.

In Anselmes time, after the restraint of Ministers marriage, great rumors, and complaint was brought to him,* of the execrable vice of Sodomitrie, which began to raigne in the Clergie. Pope Pius the second saide, hee sawe manie waightie causes, why wiues should bee taken away from Priests, but he saw more why they should be restored to them againe. Bishop Iewell Apol. cap. 8. diuis. 3. Bernard saith, Tolle de Ecclesia honorabile coniugium, &c. Take from the Church honorable Matrimonie, shall you not replenish it with ince∣stuous persons, concubinaries, Sodomiticall vices? Hereupon the popish Ca∣tholikes seeing their owne infirmitie,* began thus to salue vp the matter, Si non castè, tamen cautè: if thou deale not chastly, yet deale charily. Yea they are not ashamed thus to write, If any of the Priests should bee found imbra∣cing of a woman,* it must bee expounded and presupposed, that hee doth it to blesse her.

I but (saith Bellarmine) these are the abuses of single life, will you condemne a good thing, because of the abuse? by the same reason (saith he) coelum & ter∣ra tollenda sunt, Heauen and earth must be taken away, because they were abu∣sed of the heathen and taken for Gods. cap. 21.

Answere: First, wee say not, that these bee the fruites of single life, which Saint Paul commendeth in all those that haue the gift, but of this co-acted and constrained Popish Virginitie, which is imposed indifferently vpon all, and cannot haue any good vse: secondlie, when you can proue that restrai∣ning of Ministers marriage is of Gods ordinance, as it is certaine Heauen and Page  219 earth are of his making, then wee will grant vnto you, that it may haue a right vse, and for the abuse ought not vtterly to be abolished.

4 Lastly, Augustine saith, Quae nubere volunt, & ideo non nubunt quia impunè non possunt, melius nuberent, quàm vrerentur, id est,*quàm occulta flamma concupiscentiae in ipsa conscientia vastarentur. Those Virgins, which would marrie, but cannot, because of restraint, and reproch, might better marrie then burne, that is to say, then with the secret flame of concupiscence, to be wasted and consumed in their conscience. Wherefore it followeth, that all they, both Ministers, votaries & Virgines, that haue not power to absteine, should doe bet∣ter, for all their profession and vow, to marrie, then to burne.

THE SECOND PART, WHETHER any ought to bee admitted to the Ministerie after second marri∣age.
The Papists.

THey denie not, but that Bishops and Ministers, hauing been once married, [error 78] are rightly ordeyned, so that afterward they doe not companie with their wiues: but they which haue been either themselues twice married, or haue married a widdow, which had a husband before, are vtterlie vncapable of holy orders, Bellarmine cap. 23. Rhemist. Timoth. 3. sect. 4. and this they call Bigamie.

1 They reason thus out of Saint Pauls words, 1. Timoth. 4.2. A Bishop must be the husband of one wife: that is, say they, that no kinde a way was, Bi∣gamus, or had two wiues either at once, or one after another: And they proue their interpretation thus: First, as Saint Paul describeth a widow of the Church, 1. Timoth. 5.9. that hath been the wife of one husband, so here hee saith of a Bishop, that he should be the husband of one wife: but that is meant, suc∣cessiuè, of one husband after another: for it was neuer seene that one woman should haue more husbands then one at once, nor neuer suffered either a∣mongst the Iewes or Gentiles: therefore it must be so taken here, a husband of one wife: that is, who hath been but once married, as it is taken there, a wife of one husband, that neuer had more, not onely simul, at once, but not suc∣cessiuè, not successiuely one after another, Bellarmine cap. 23.

Ans. First, there were many women both among the Iewes and Gentiles, that had forsaken their first husbands, and were vnlawfully coupled to others, and so had moe husbands at once, and likewise many men that had done the like to their wiues, but afterward repented, and were conuerted to the Christi∣an faith, but yet were not admitted to any publike office in the Church, be∣cause of their former infamous life. Of such the Apostle speaketh in both these places, and not of those that married one wife, or one husband after another. Page  220 It is therefore great boldnes, and a greater vntruth to say, that there were none such heard of in those dayes: for although it were neither lawfull then nor now, yet both many such were heard of in those dayes, and it were no hard matter to finde out some now among the papists, that haue had more then one wife at once. Secondly, he is not to be counted Bigamus, or Digamus, that is coupled and ioyned to one wife after another lawfullie, but he that vnlawfully at once enioyeth more then one. Fulk. Annot. Timoth. 5. sect. 6. & cap. 3. sect. 4.

2 Againe say they, the high Priest in the lawe was not permitted to mar∣rie a widow, Leuit. 21.13. Which lawe being obserued in the high Priest, ought much more to be kept now, Rhemist.

Answere: That lawe concerning the high Priest, did onely appertaine to himselfe, who was a figure of Christ: neither can it be extended to the Ministers of the Gospell, no more then any other partes of his office, that were peculiar to that state and calling, Fulk. Annot. 1. Timoth. 3. sect. 4.

The Protestants.

THat it is not by the word of God forbidden, that any man should marrie the second, yea the third time, after the decease of his wife, neither that hee is to be counted vnchast or giuen to wantonnes in so doing (much lesse hee that in his first marriage taketh a widow,) neither that, to haue been twise married ought to be a barre or a stop from entring into the state and calling of the Mi∣nisterie, if otherwise the man be qualified and furnished with sufficient graces for that calling: thus it is proued.

1 They that cut off such, as haue been twise married, from behauing any calling in the Church, doe sauour of the heresie of Montanus, into the which also Tertulliane fell, who condemned second marriage: for if once marriage be no impediment nor preiudice to him that is to bee ordained, but second marriage be, then doe they disallow second marriage, (because a man is thereby disabled to be a Minister) if not simply, yet they make it lesse lawful, nay more offensiue, and subiect to obloquie and reproch. But the scripture maketh no difference be∣tweene first & second marriage: S. Paul saith, For auoiding of fornication, let e∣uery man haue his own wife: he saith not, his first wife: but generally: so that it is lawfull for auoiding of fornication to marrie the second or the third wife, as well as the first.

2 If it be as lawfull to marrie the second wife, as the first, if it be for auoiding of fornication, then secōd marriage doth no more hinder the receiuing of orders then the first: but the antecedent is true: for what should make the second marri∣age lesse lawful? not any dutie that the wife or the husband oweth to the partie deceased: for they are free in that respect, & set at libertie, Rom. 7.3. Neither is the end of marriage made frustrate more now then before: for hee that marrieth the second time, may haue as good cause to doe it, for auoiding of fornication, as he had at the first.

Page  2213 Second marriage, make the worst of it you can, is not so great a blot as fornication, or adulterie, or to haue a Concubine: but these were no lets of priest∣hood in poperie: Nay, we reade that Augustine in the purer age of the Church, that confesseth he had two Concubines, yet afterward was made presbyter,* and at the last a Bishop for all that. Wherefore, there is no reason that exception should be taken against a twice married man, seeing a fornicator is free.

Lastly, of this opinion Augustine seemeth to be: That it is as lawfull to mar∣rie the second time & the third, as the first. Ait Apostolus, mulier alligata est vi∣ro, quamdiu vir eius viuit; non dixit primus, secundus, tertius, aut quartus: The woman is bound (sayth the Apostle) so long as her husband liueth; he sayth not,* the first husband, second, third, or fourth: So the woman is as free after the first or second husbands death, as when she was a virgin. Yet if she can content her selfe with her widowes estate, and haue the gift of continencie, she shall do bet∣ter not to marrie: But if she haue not, it is better to marrie (S. Paul sayth not, the first, second or third time, but so often as she hath neede) rather then to burne.

THE THIRD PART, WHETHER MINISTERS ought to refrayne the companie of their wiues, being entered into orders.
The Papistes.

THey confesse, that Peter and other of the Apostles were married, but after their calling they had no companie with their wiues, Rhemist. Math. 8. sect. 3 [error 79] And so ought the Ministers of the Gospell (sayth Bellarmine) be kept from the vse of their wiues, to whom they were married before their calling.

1 The Priests of the lawe were bound to withdrawe themselues during the time of their seruice, while they attended vpon the sacrifice, and to forbeare the companie of their wiues: much more the Priests of the lawe, that must alwayes offer sacrifices, must be alwayes free from matrimonie, Rhemist. Luk. 1. sect. 10.

Ans. 1. The Leuiticall priesthood did represent and shadowe forth the priest∣hood of Christ, and their legall cleansings, washings, abstinence, purifyings, did shewe forth the holines and perfection of the priesthood of Christ: wherefore the lawe of their abstinence doth no more binde vs, then other of their legall purifications: they haue their end in the priesthood of Christ. 2. We acknow∣ledge no sacrificing priesthood in the newe testament, nor any sacrifice in the Church for sinne, but onely that sacrifice of atonement vpon the Crosse: but our sacrifices are spirituall, of praise and thanksgiuing; therefore the argument fol∣loweth not from the priests of the law, to those that are no priests, Fox. pag. 1166. 3. Purenes of life, we grant, is as much required now in Ministers of the Gospell, as it was then in the priests of the lawe: therefore they ought as well to haue li∣bertie to marrie, seeing matrimonie is the best remedie agaynst fornication and vncleannes of life.

Page  2222 Another argument they picke out of S. Paules words, 1. Corinth. 7.5. De∣fraude you not one another, vnlesse it bee by consent for a time, that you may giue your selues to prayer. If the lay man cannot pray, vnlesse he abstaine from his wife, the Priest, that must alwaies pray, must alwaies abstaine, Rhemist.

Ans. 1. The lay man is bound to offer prayers alwaies as well as the Priest, and so by this reason, neither ought any lay man to performe his duetie to his wife, if it were an hinderance to praier. 2. S. Paul speaketh not here of all praier, but of a speciall kind, which, to be made more feruent, requireth fasting and ab∣stinence, which kind is not alway necessarie, but vpon some certaine occasion. 3. It is so farre off that a lay man cannot pray, vnlesse he abstaine from his wife, that many times he prayeth more quietly then he that is vnmarried, or abstai∣neth, if he haue not dominion ouer his lust, Fulk. annot. 1. Cor. 7.5.

The Protestants.

NEither the Apostles forsooke the companie of their wiues, after they were called and chosen of Christ, neither ought the Ministers of the Gospell to renounce, abandon, and forsweare the societie and fellowship of their wiues: but rather to liue with them in all temperance and sobrietie, for the good example of others:

1 It is proued out of the 1. Cor. 9.5. that Peter & the other Apostles did leade about their wiues in their companie, and S. Paul there sayth, that he also might vse the same libertie. Likewise, 1. Timoth. 3.5. S. Paul giueth rules concerning the house and familie of the Minister, his children, the behauiour of their wiues. vers 11. But where, I pray you, is it fitter for the Ministers wife and children to be, then with her husband? By these places it is apparant, that Ministers wiues were not excluded from their husbands companie: as a thousand yeere after & more it was decreed by Anselme, that they should not dwell in house with their hus∣bands, nor talke with them without two or three witnesses, Fox. pag. 1167.

2 It is cleane contrarie to the scripture. First, our Sauiour sayth, whosoeuer putteth away his wife, except it be for fornication, causeth her to commit adul∣terie, Math. 5.32. By this rule, therefore a Minister ought not for any other cause to put away and dismisse his wife, but for fornication: Ergo, it is not lawfull be∣cause of his calling, or vpon any other colour to send her away. Secondly. S. Paul sayth, They ought not to defraud one another but for a time, and that with con∣sent, 1. Corinth. 7.5. Therefore if the wife will not consent, her husband cannot goe from her: nay, though there be consent, yet they must be asunder but for a time: they cannot by consent altogether breake off, and dissolue their marriage, which was made before God, though they would neuer so fayne themselues, vnlesse it be for fornication, then without consent the marriage knot is broken.

3 Peter left not the companie of his wife after he was made an Apostle: for he had a daughter called Petronilla, of whom the popish legends write much holines, which must needes be borne after he was called Peter. And agayne, it is proued by her age, for she was so young in the persecutiō vnder Domitian, that Flaccus the Countie desired her in marriage: but if she had been borne before Page  223Peters Apostleship, she must haue been threescore yeere old at that time, or hard vpon, Fulk. Math. 8. sect. 3.

4 Augustine thus writeth of this matter: Vna sola esse causa posset, qua te id. quod vouisti, non solum non hortaremur, verumetiam prohiberemus implere, si forte tua coniux hoc tecum suscipere animi, seu carnis insrmitate recusaret, Epistol. 45. There may be one cause, and no more, which would make me, not only to moue you to performe that which you haue vowed, but to disswade and forbid you, namely, if your wife by reason of her weakenes, should refuse to beare the yoke with you. Therefore, by Augustines sentence, neither ought a Minister that is married, performe the vow of continencie which he made, without consent of his wife: for he speaketh generally of vowes made by those that are ioyned in Wedlocke.

THE SIXT QVESTION, CONCERNING THE maintenance of the Church by tithes.

COncerning the maintenance of the Church, there are diuers poynts, wherein we & our aduersaries agree: The maintenāce of the Ministers of the Church is either by temporal possessions, which haue been bestowed vpon the Church, by the gift of deuoute and religious men, or els they haue inheritance from their friends and a patrimonie of their owne, or els they liue of the tithes and obla∣tions of the people.

1 We grant, and agree vnto them: that the Church Ministers, beside the portion of tithes, may lawfully enioy temporall lands, which the Church of an∣cient time hath been endowed withall. But we yeeld vnto them vpon certaine conditions: First, there must be a moderation vsed in all such gifts, which are be∣queathed to the Church: for Ecclesiasticall persons ought not to be too greedie and hastie in receiuing whatsoeuer in simplicitie and blind deuotion any man shall giue vnto them: as if they see that others are empouerished by the gift whereby they are enriched. Thus the Priests offended in our Sauiour Christs time, who allured the people to bring their offerings to the Altar, though their parents wanted in the meane time, whom they were bound to relieue by the law of God. This also was a common practise in time of Poperie: So the priests might be enriched, they cared not greatly, though all the stock of their patrones and founders were vndone: who because they were vnsatiable, & had no mea∣sure in entising simple men, to giue ouer their lands and Lordships into their hands, the statute of Mortmaine was made not without iust cause, to be a rule vnto thē, that otherwise could not rule themselues. Augustine doth highly com∣mend Aurelius Bishop of Carthage, and worthely, for this one act: A certaine rich man of Carthage hauing no children, gaue all his substance to the Church, reseruing onely the vse thereof for his life time: afterward the man had chil∣dren: Reddidit Episcopus nec opinanti ea, quae donauerat.* The Bishop restoreth vnto him that which hee gaue, not looking for it, nor making any ac∣count of it: In potestate habuit Episcopus non reddere; sed iure fori, non iure poli:Page  224 It was in the Bishops power not to restore the gift, but by the lawe of the court, not by the lawe of heauen. I pray you how many such examples can ye shewe me in the time of popish superstition? This then is the first thing required, that although it be lawful for the Church to enioy the bequests of their benefactors, yet it should be done with some limitation: As the Leuites, beside their tithes, had cities appoynted them: but the number was set downe, they should not exceede 48. in all: and to euery citie was a quantitie and circuite of ground al∣lotted, which should in length and bredth contayne euery way 3000. cubites, Numb. 35. vers. 5.8.

2 It must also be prouided, that the gifts and legacies bestowed vpon the Church, bee for the maintenance of pietie and true religion, and to good vses, not to nourish idolatrie and superstition: or if they be giuen through ignorance of the time, to such vnlawfull purposes, they ought by the Prince to be conuer∣ted to better and more godly vses: As now in England, the lands of Colledges, which were first giuen to maintaine that abominable Idoll of the Masse, are turned to the maintenance of learning and true religion. So was the lawe of Moses, that the gold and siluer, brasse, yron, tinne, lead, which the Israelites should receiue of the heathen,* first should passe through the fire, and so bee made cleane, and fit for holy vses: Euen thus according to this lawe, the lands consecrate to superstition, hauing now passed through the fire of Gods word, and triall of the truth, may safely be vsed to the glorie of God, in aduancing and setting forward true religion and vertue.

3 Another thing must bee required: that Church-men ought not to abuse the possessions of the Church, to maintayne pride, idlenes, and ryotous liuing: for in case they doe notoriously spend and wast the Church goods, the Prince, by whose authoritie they were giuen to the Church, may iustly take from them their superfluities, not leauing the Church destitute of sufficient maintenance. This is notably proued by Iohn Husse, in the defence of Wickliffes articles: And we haue seene the practise thereof in England,* in the late suppression of Ab∣beyes: wherein (though some of those lands might otherwise haue been dispo∣sed of) yet the prouidence of God notably appeared in bringing desolation vpon those Cels of sinne, and vncleane cages of birdes: neither hath this been an vnusuall and vnaccustomed practise in the Church, for Princes to correct the misdemeanour of Priests, by cutting them short of their temporalties: for in Augustines time the Christian Emperours dispossessed the Donatists of their Churches and possessions, and gaue them to the Catholike Bishops. And at that time the Donatists cryed out, as the Papists doe now, Quid mihi est imperator? What hath the Emperour, the King to doe with our lands? Au∣gustine answereth, Secundum ius ipsius possides terram: by the lawe of Princes the Church enioyeth her possessions: Recitemus leges imperatorum, videa∣mus si voluerint aliquid ab haereticis possideri:* Let vs then rehearse the lawes of Emperours, and see, whether they suffer heretikes to enioy the Church pos∣sessions.

Page  225Secondly, concerning the second kind of maintenance, which ariseth by the proper and peculiar inheritance, which Church ministers haue:* we also yeeld our consent, that a Minister▪ to whom some inheritance is befallen, is not bound to disclaime therefore the maintenance which he hath of the Church: for the Leuites, beside the allotment of the tythes, had their proper houses, which they might sell, and redeeme agayne, Leuitic. 25.32. As also that place 1. Timot. 3.2. will beare it, where the Apostle would haue a Bishop to be harberous, and giuen to hospitalitie: which he shall be much better able to performe, hauing some helpe, beside the Church liuing, of his owne inheritance. So then it is not to be doubted, but that Ecclesiasticall persons may, together with spirituall liuings, retayne their owne proper inheritance: referring them both to one and the selfe same end, that is, to countenance their Ministerie, and to be the better able to performe the externall dueties thereof, in releeuing the poore, helping the needie, and such like.

Thirdly, as touching the proper maintenance, and reuenew of the Church, which is by tithes: diuers poynts are agreed of and accorded betweene vs. First, that tithes due onely to the Church, and cannot be alienated to any other vse, nor be turned to the maintenance of lay men: for there must be, where tithes are payed, a matter of giuing and receiuing, Philipp. 4.15. We giue spiri∣tuall, and receiue temporall: which because lay men doe not performe, they haue nothing to doe with the tithe: for not keeping the condition, they cannot claime the couenant.

2 The people are bound in conscience, to giue of their goods vnto their lawfull Pastors, according to the determination of the Church, and the positiue lawes of Princes made in that behalfe, the which they are bound to obey: and the tenth being the hire of the labourer and the wages of the Lords workeman, Math. 10.10: it shall be as great a sinne to defraude the Minister of his portion, as to keepe backe the meate or wages from the hireling and labourer, Iam. 5.4.

3 We vtterly denie also, and herein consent with our aduersaries, that tithes are not pure almes, as some haue been of opinion in times past,* but are a plaine debt of the people to their Ministers. First, the wages or reward of the labourer is no almes, but his due, and of right belonging to him: but tithes are so vnto Ministers who labour in the Lords haruest, 1. Timoth. 5.16. Ergo, no almes. Se∣condly, almes doe alway exceede the desert of the almesman, they shewe the beneuolence and free heart of the giuer, not any merite or worthines in the re∣ceiuer: but tithes and all other temporall gifts, are farre inferiour to the labours of Ministers: for what are temporall things to spirituall, 1. Cor. 9.11? Ergo, no almes. Thirdly, the tenth is the Lords part, and by him it is assigned to his faith∣full Ministers, which in Gods stead doe teach vs, 2. Cor. 5.20. But almes cannot be giuen vnto God. Agayne, the tenth is as an inheritance to the Church, and to bee counted as the corne of the barne, or the abundance of the winepresse, Numb. 18. vers. 26.27. It is vnto them as the fruite of the earth, and encrease of the ground to the husbandman: Therefore to be counted no almes from men, Page  226 but the blessing of God both vpon the pastor and the people.

4 We also agree, that it is not meete that the maintenance of Ministers should be voluntarie, or left to the peoples choise: but that it is conuenient, iust, equall, requisite, that both by lawes of Princes, and constitutions of the Church, prouision should be made, as there is, for the necessarie, certayne, and compe∣tent maintenance of the Church. First, the tenths in the lawe were established by a perpetuall ordinance: Ergo, the maintenance of Ministers ought now also to be confirmed by positiue lawes, as then tithes were: the argument followeth: for if their Ministerie deserued such assurance of their maintenāce, which did but serue at the Altar, much more now doth the Ministerie of the Gospel deserue it. And the Apostle also seemeth so to reason, 1. Corint. 9.14.15. that as they which wayted on the Altar were partakers of the Altar: so God hath ordayned (sayth he) that they which preach the Gospell, should liue of the Gospell. That is, as then the people did not onely giue tithes voluntarily, but were bound by lawe to doe it: euen so God hath ordayned, that Ministers should liue of the people: and by this ordinance of God, the people may as well be bound vnto it now, as they were then. Secondly, if Ministers, bound in conscience to feed and instruct the people, may also be enforced and vrged by the constitutions of the Church and lawes of Princes to do that, which in conscience they are bound: why may not the people likewise be constrayned by publike lawe, to performe that dutie to their pastors, which their owne conscience doth vrge them vnto? Thirdly, ex∣perience teacheth, that men are hardly (euen liuing vnder a law) brought to pay their rights to the Church, no not in those places where they can take no excep∣tion against their pastors: how much more vnwilling would they be (I speake of those which are not yet wonne to a through liking of the Gospel) if they were left to their owne libertie?

5 We also acknowledge (as Bellarmine seemeth to grant, cap. 25.) that to pay precisely the tenth, is not now commanded by the law of God: as though that order could not be changed by any humane law, as the Canonists hold, but men necessarily were bound to pay tithes: But thus farre forth we hold, that it is groū∣ded vpon Gods law: first, in respect of the equitie of the law, in paying of tithes, which is this, that the Ministers ought to liue of the people, and to haue sufficient & competent maintenance by them: which equitie and substance of the law is morall, and ought alwaies to continue, being grounded vpon the law of nature: Thou shalt not musle the mouth of the oxe that treadeth out the corne.* Second∣ly, in as much as the lawe of the land and of the Church doth confirme this an∣cient constitution of tithes, (which is left indifferent of itselfe) we are bound to obey such lawes, being agreeable to the word of God: And in this sense also, tithes may be sayd to be due by the lawe of God, because Gods word comman∣deth obedience to our Magistrates, in all lawfull ordinances.

6 Though the lawe of tenths be not now necessarie, as it was a ceremonious duetie: but it is lawfull either to keepe that or any other constitution, for the sufficient maintenance of the Church, whether it bee more or lesse then the Page  227 tenth part: yet we doubt not to say, that this prouision for the Church mainte∣nance by paying of tithes, is the most safe, indifferent and surest way, and no better can come in the place thereof. First, it is the most equall way, to haue euery thing in the kinde, according to the Apostles rule; Let him that is taught make his teacher partaker of al his goods, Galath. 6.6. But this cannot be so con∣ueniently done any other way, as by erecting of a set stipend, or such like, as by paying the tenth in the kind.

2 Whereas S. Paul requireth, that the Pastor should be giuen to hospitalitie, 1. Timoth. 3.2. who seeth not, that for the better and more conuenient mainte∣nance of his house, it is the fittest course to receiue the tenth in his owne nature and kind: being so more able to relieue the poore, hauing sufficient prouision and store of his owne?

3 The tenth is as the corne of the barne, & the abundance of the winepresse, Numb. 18.27. that is, it is more or lesse, as God giueth encrease to the fruites of the earth: which is the most equall and indifferent way: for then the Minister, as God blesseth them, shall be partaker of the blessing, and if they suffer losse, he likewise shall beare the burthen with them.

4 This manner of tithe-paying is farre more safe and sure, then any way can be deuised, because of the long custome and continuance, which without great hazard of the Church cannot be broken: neither is it possible by any act of par∣liament, to make stipends so certayne, as this constitution of tithes is: for the people will hardly yeeld to breake their custome: and when an old custome is broken, a newe is not so soone receiued: nay, many yeeres must runne to make a custome. Agayne, whatsoeuer may be obiected agaynst tithes, that they breed much trouble, wrangling and contention, may be more iustly feared, in the col∣lection, leuying, imposing, and demanding of stipends.

5 Hitherto we haue shewed, that it is most naturall, that the Ministers por∣tion should be payed in the kind. Now, concerning the tenth, though it be not necessarie, yet that proportion being first appoynted by the wisedome of God, is verily thought to be most equall and indifferent betweene the pastor and the people, as both affoording competent sustenance for the one, when he liueth of the tenth, rather thē the fifteenth, or twentith part, which were too skant allow∣ance, nor yet grieuing or oppressing the other, when the owner hath nine parts reserued to himselfe. And so if it be most meete, that things should be answe∣red in their kind, no proportion can serue better, then that which was first deui∣sed by the Lord himselfe: yet we hold neither the one nor the other to bee ne∣cessarie.

Hitherto for the most part we and our aduersaries are agreed, both concer∣ning tithes, as also other maintenance of the Church: but we differ about tithes in two poynts. First, there is a question betweene vs and the Rhemists about the necessitie of paying of tithes: Secondly, concerning the right whereby the Mi∣nisters of the Gospell may demaund their dueties, which they say, is by reason of their Priesthood: of both these now briefly in their order.

Page  228
THE FIRST PART, WHETHER THE PAI∣ment of tithes be necessarie.
The Papists.

[error 80] THe paiment of tithes is a naturall duetie, that men owe to God in all lawes, and to be giuen to his Priests in his behalfe for their honour and liuelihood, Rhemist. annot. 7. Hebr. sect. 4.

1 Iacob vowed to pay tithes to God, before the lawe, Genes. 28. Ergo, it is a perpetuall lawe. Rhemist.

Ans. One Papist shall answere another at this time. Bellarmine proueth by this example the cleane contrary, that the paiment of tithes is not morall, be∣cause it did not bind before the lawe of Moses: for Iacob made a voluntary vow to pay his tithes, vpon a condition: but if he had been bound absolutely to pay tithes, they should haue been payed without any such condition: It was there∣fore a voluntarie and a franke offering in Iacob.

2 Christ confirmeth the lawe of tithes, Math. 23.23. though he preferre the workes of mercie and iudgement, yet he sayth that the other ought not to be left vndone, speaking of the paying of tithes, Rhemist. ibid.

Ans. We must consider in what time our Sauiour Christ so spake vnto the Pharisees: for as yet neither the lawe nor the ceremonies thereof were fully ab∣rogated: Christ was circumcised, & Mary his mother purified according to the lawe, Luk. 2.21.22. Our Sauiour also biddeth the Leper to shewe himselfe to the Priest, and offer a gift as Moses commanded, Math. 8.4. Yet none of al these ceremonies doe now stand in force, though Christ did them at that time, and bad them to be done. The same answere may serue also concerning his iniun∣ction to the Pharisees as touching their tithes.

The Protestants.

THe lawe of paying tithes did borrowe part of the morall, part of the iudicial, and part of the ceremoniall lawe. The morall part therefore, is the equitie of the lawe, which is perpetuall, that as the Leuites then liued of the tenth, so the Ministers at all times ought sufficiently to be prouided and cared for. The iudi∣ciall part was in this, that as the Leuites were not much lesse in common ac∣count then the tenth part, being one of the tribes, (though in proportion of number, they made welneere the thirtith part: for the rest of the tribes were numbred to sixe hundred, three thousand, fiue hundred and fiftie persons, Num∣bers 1. the Leuites made but two and twentie thousand,*Numb. 3.) As I say the Leuites made one whole tribe, and were not much lesse then the tenth part in that account, being in number the thirteenth tribe, for there were twelue beside. Page  229 So it was thought reasonable that the tenth parte of their brethrens goods should be allotted vnto them: which being a iudiciall and politike constitution of that countrey, doth neither necessarily binde Christians now, neither is for∣bidden, but left in that respect indifferent. Thirdly, the ceremonie of the lawe was in this, because the tenth was due to the priests and Leuites for their ser∣uice at the altar, and as belonging to their priesthood: In which sense tithes are neither due now vnto Ministers, nor in any such respect can be challenged, seeing the Priesthood of the lawe is gone, and all the ceremonies thereof: Whereof although it bee a wise and politike constitution, that the people should pay their tithes, and may conueniently be retayned, yet is it not now of necessitie imposed vpon Christians, as though no other prouision for the Church could serue but that.

1 Bellarmine thus reasoneth (for herein he is an aduersary to our Rhemists) (one Iesuite against another) If the law of tithes be moral, then the other pre∣cept annexed to this law was moral also, that the Leuites, because they liued of the offerings and tithes, should haue no patrimonie or inheritance beside. And by this reason euery Minister now ought to resigne such inheritance and possessions, as are left him by his friends: which is not to bee admitted. Ergo, neither the other law standeth necessarily in force, Bellarm. cap. 25.

2 Saint Paul sayth in flat words, If the priesthood be changed, of necessitie there must also be a change of the law, Heb. 7.12. But the priesthood of the law is altered and changed, Ergo, also the law of the priesthood, and so consequent∣ly the ceremonial duetie of tithes.

3 In Augustines time, it was no generall law nor custome in the Church, that tithes should be payd. Praecidite & deputate aliquid fixum ex annuis fructib. vel quotidianis quaestibus: defaulke, sayth he, and appoynt some certaine porti∣on, either of your yearely fruites, or your ordinary and daylie gaines.*Decimas vis? decimas exime: Will you make choyce to pay tithes? then let that be the portion. And yet this is no great matter: for the Pharisies, whose righteous∣nesse you ought to exceede, payed their tithes: Tu vix millesimam das: Thou scarce payest the thousand part: Tamen non reprehendo, vel hoc fac, sic sitio, vt ad istas micas gaudeam: Yet I finde not fault: doe so still:* for I so thirst after your well-doing, that I refuse not your very crummes. We see then, that then the payment of tithes was voluntarie: Augustine refuseth not the ten hundred, that is, millesimam partem, the thousand part, which he calleth their crummes.

THE SECOND PART, BY WHAT RIGHT tithes are due to the Ministers of the Gospel.
The Papists.

COncerning tithes or their equiualent due to Christ & the priesthood of the [error 81] new Testament, Rhemist. annot. Heb. 7.4. this then is their opinion, that the Page  230 priesthood of the Gospell being more excellent then the priesthood of the Law and their sacrifice, which they offer vp in the Masse, being of greater worthi∣nes, they may with better right challenge tithes, then the priests of the law did for their seruice at the altar: So that tithes are due to the Church onely because of the priesthood, not for any other duetie appertaining to that office, as prea∣ching the word, ministring the sacraments, or any such.

Abraham payd tithes, they say, to Melchisedech, which was the priest of the most high God in offering the formes of bread & wine, wherein Melchisedech did sacrifice: Ergo, tithes are now due to the priests of the Gospel and new law, which are all after the order of Melchisedech, Rhemist. Hebr. 7. sect. 4. & 8.

Answere: First, Melchisedechs priesthood consisted not in offering bread and wine to God, but brought them foorth to refresh Abraham: neither were they formes of bread and wine onely, as you imagine, but very materiall bread and wine: for if Melchisedechs priesthood had consisted therein, the Apostle would not haue omitted the chiefe thing, wherein Christs priesthood was shewed forth, as he doth, making no mention at all of it. Heb. 7. Secondly, a∣gaine it is great blasphemie to say, that euery popish priest is after the order of Melchisedech,* nay that the proper act of Christs priesthood consisteth in the per∣petuall offering of his bodie & blood in the Church: for by this reason euery im∣pure priest doth more properly offer the body of Christ in the Masse, then it was offered by himself vpon the cros: thē the which, what greater blasphemie can be vttered? And yet they are not ashamed to speak it: yea the sacrifice of Christ vp∣on the crosse, (say they) was after the order of Aaron; and not after the order of Melchisdech,* and so they preferre euery popish priest offering in the Masse, before Iesus Christ sacrificing himself vpon the Crosse: contrary to the scripture, which maketh this difference between the priesthood of Aaron and the priest∣hood of Melchisedech; that the priests of the law were many, because they were taken away by death: But Christs priesthood is eternall, because he dieth not, Heb. 7.23. But if there should be many priestes after Melchisedechs order, there should heerein bee no difference at all: Wherefore seeing Melchisedechs priesthood onely resteth in Christ, and is not translated to any other; and that there is now no sacrifice left but spirituall, of prayse and thanksgiuing, Heb. 13.15. it followeth that by Melchisedechs right no tithes are now due vnto the Church, neither in any such regard ought to be challenged.

The Protestantes.

TIthes, or their equiualent are not due to the Church in respect of any sacri∣ficing priesthood, of which sorte there is none in the new testament or∣dayned to continue: but for other pastorall dueties, and principally the prea∣ching and dispensing of the word, and instructing of the people.

1 If there were any such priesthood, and tithes in that right did appertaine to the Church: it is most like that our Sauiour Christ and his Apostles would haue challenged them. But there is no one precept in the new testament con∣cerning paying of tithes, but onely for a sufficient maintenance for the mini∣sters of the Gospel, 1. Cor. 9.14. Gal. 6.6. Fulk. Hebr. 7. sect. 4.

Page  2312 Saint Paul euery where, so oft as he sheweth the duetie of Christians in relieuing and mayntayning their pastors, maketh onely mention of sowing of spirituall things, 1. Cor. 9.11. and of teaching and instructing, Gal. 6.6. Ergo, tithes are due vnto Pastors and Ministers onely or especially for their feeding and instructing, and sowing spirituall seede, which is the word of God.

3 There is no such sacrificing priesthood now in the Church, as wee haue partly shewed before, and shall of purpose more fully declare it afterward: for euery where in the new testament spirituall sacrifices are commanded: and all Christians are made Kings and Priests vnto God, Apocal. 1.6. Other priesthood we read of none. Wherefore in that respect tithes cannot be due.

Lastly, Augustine sayth: Si mendicum non contemnis, quanto magis bonem, per quem trituratur haec area: If thou despisest not a beggar,* how much more oughtest thou to haue regard of the oxe that treadeth out the corne on the floore: That is, the Minister that preacheth the Gospel: for so Saint Paul ex∣poundeth it 1. Timoth. 5.17.

The Elders, sayth he, that labour in the word and doctrine are worthie double honour: and then it followeth, vers. 8. for the scrip∣ture sayth, Thou shalt not muzle the mouth of the oxe, that treadeth out the corne.
Sufficient maintenance therefore to the Ministers is due for their labour and trauaile in the word.


MOnkes in Latine, called Monachi, deriued of the Greeke word, were such, as liued solitarilie, & thereupon had they their name: And they were at the beginning of three sortes: some were cal∣led Eremites that liued in woods and desarts by themselues: there were other which were mued vp and enclosed in cels and wals, which had not so much libertie as Eremites had: but kept alwayes in their ca∣ges and closets, and soe in miserie spent their dayes: and these were called An∣chorites, that is, separated, set apart from all men and liuing by themselues: There was a third sorte called Coenobites, which liued in companies, as it were in Colledges by them selues, & had all things common: And these properly were called Monks, Bell. lib. 2. de monach. cap. 3. This controuersie hath many questiōs.

1 Concerning the beginning & original of Monks, & of their diuers sects, 2. partes.

2 Concerning Counsels of perfection, whether they differ from Euangeli∣call precepts.

3 Concerning vowes in generall, three partes: First, whether it be lawfull for Christians to make vowes. Secondly, in what things lawful vowes consist. Thirdly, whether voluntary vowes are any part of the worship of God.

Page  2324 Concerning Monasticall vowes in particular, three partes: First, of the vow of voluntary pouertie: Secondly, the vow of obedience: Thirdly, the vow of continencie.

5 Concerning Monasticall persons: First whether the younger sorte ought to be admitted to professe Monkerie. Secondly, whether children can professe without consent of their parents. Thirdly, whether maried persons may with mutuall consent. Fourthly, whether either of the parties, the mariage not con∣summate may enter into profession.

6 Concerning the rules and discipline of Monasticall life: First, of their so∣litarie and seuere kinde of life. Secondly, of their canonical houres. Thirdly, their habite and apparell. Fourthly, of their maintenance, whether they ought to liue by begging, or labour of their handes: of these in order.

THE FIRST QVESTION OF THE BEGIN∣ning and originall of Monkes, and of their diuers sects.

THis question hath tow partes: First of their originall. Secondly, of the di∣uersitie of their sects.

The Papists.

[error 82] THey make this profession to be as ancient as the time of our Sauiour Christ, and prooue the beginning thereof both out of the newe and olde Testa∣ment.

1 Helias and Helizaeus were Eremites, and liued without wiues, neither possessed any riches: Ergo, this profession of life is most ancient, Bellarm. cap. 5. Rhemist. annot. in Mark. 9.3.

Answere: First, the argument followeth not: they had no wiues, nor ri∣ches, Ergo, were Eremites: for euen amongst the papists themselues many were kept from wiues (as their priests) and yet were neither Monkes nor Ere∣mites. Secondly, though we reade not that Helisaeus was married, yet the sonnes of the prophets were, that liued as it were in the same Colledge with him, 2. King. 4.1. which Bellarmine maketh a Colledge of Monkes and Ere∣mites: and sayth very vntruely, that they all liued without wiues, cap. 5. Third∣ly, though Elias and Elisaeus were sometime in the wildernes, yet they alwayes remained not, neither liued there, Fulk. annot. Mark. 9.3.

2 Iohn Baptist a perfect patterne of Eremitical life, for liuing in the desert and wildernes, for his rough apparell, for abstaining from all delicate meate, Rhemist. annot. Math. 3.1.

Page  233Answere: First, Iohn Baptists calling was singular and extraordinary, and therefore cannot be made an author of any ordinary profession. Secondly, wee denie not but his life was austere, and that he made his abode in a solitarie place, yet there were houses and villages not farre off: his apparell also was course cloth, made of the hard haires of Camels: his foode was of locusts and wilde honie, the vsuall and common meate of that countrey: he was an extraordina∣ry preacher of repentance, and shewed in him selfe an example of austere life, as it became the forerunner of Christ: But being no minister of the Gospel, but the last prophet of the law, he cannot be a patterne of an ordinary profession vnder the Gospel, Fulk. annot. Matth. 3. sect. 1.

3 Nay Bellarm. fetcheth his monkish order from a more ancient beginning, thē from Elias, & Iohn Baptist: yea from before the flood: for Enos, saith he, see∣meth to haue brought in some stricter kinde of life, and peculiar maner of wor∣shipping God: whereas the text sayth, that he began to call vpon the name of God: that is, after another manner: for Adam, Seth, Abel, before this time called vpon the name of God. cap. 5.

Answere: First, who would haue thought, that there had been Monks and Eremites before the flood, if the Iesuite had not sayd it, or that this text, which he alleadgeth, could haue proued it? The argument followeth not: Enos brought in a peculiar worship of God, therefore was founder of the Eremiticall life: for he brought in the true worship of God: but the other is superstitious and erronious. Secondly, Tremellius readeth more agreeably to the Hebrue, Tum no∣mē Dei coeptum est inuocando profanari: then the name of God began to be pro∣phaned in calling vpon, that is, his worship began to be corrupted: for the He∣brue word signifieth, both to inuocate and call vpon God, as also to corrupt, pollute, or prophane. Thirdly, if we read as they doe, The name of God be∣ganne to be called vpon: it onely sheweth a restoring and renewing of the true worship of God, which was polluted by the posteritie of Cain, whose stocke and familie is set downe in that chapter, Gen. 4.

The Protestants.

WE see then that this Monasticall and solitarie kinde of life hath no proofe nor ground out of the scriptures, either by precept or example: Nay this kinde of profession was not knowen in the Church, for diuers hundred yeeres after Christ; how could then the Apostles be the founders of this order? And though the name of Monks be of some antiquitie in the Church, yet they were farre vnlike vnto Popish Monkes, that for these many yeres haue pestered the Church.

1 It is certaine, as Hierome witnesseth, that Antonius, and his disciples Amathas and Macarius, were the first beginners of Monkish profession, three hundred yeere after Christ, Centur. 4. cap. 6. Fulk. annot. Mark. 9.3.

2 The beginning of Monkes, was not for the more merite, and to doe Page  234 penance for their owne sinnes and the sinnes of the worlde, for Antonius the first Monk confessed, that Christ onely suffered for the sinnes of the world: but the first occasion was giuen in the time of persecution, when as men were not suffered to worship God aright publikely:* and therefore they fled into the wil∣dernes: Rhemist. Math. 3. sect. 3. But now seeing the Christian fayth is openly professed, they haue no such causes to seeke solitarie and secret places.

3 The popish Monkes are altogether vnlike theirs: First, they liued in soli∣tarie places, farre from resorte of people: but the popish Mock-monkes liue in Cities and the frequencie of the people, Fulk. annot. Math. 3. sect. 3. Second∣ly, the Monkes in times past laboured with their hands: but the popish fat∣bellies pampered themselues in idlenes. Thirdly, they are altogether vnlike in life and doctrine as wee shall see more at large afterward. Fulk. ibid.

THE SECOND PART CONCERNING the diuers sects of Monkes and Friers.
The Papists.

[error 83] THey say that imitation of diuers holy men, as of Saint Francis, Saint Benet, Saint Dominick, which hath brought in diuers sects and orders of Religi∣ous men, doe tend all to the imitation of Christ, Rhemist. annot. Philip. cap. 3. sect. 2.1. Thess. 1.2.

This their assertion they would ground vpon the Apostles wordes, Philip. 3.17. Be ye followers of me brethren: Rhemist.

Answere: First, Saint Paul would haue them no otherwise to follow him, then he did Christ, 1. Cor. 11.1. Neither gaue any other rules to his followers, then he had learned of Christ, as the patrons of the Monkish sects haue done. Secondly, Neither did Saint Paul erect a new order of Paulians, as Franciscus did of Franciscanes, Dominick of Dominicans. Thirdly, Saint Paul was a per∣swader of vnitie, not a maker of diuisions among Christians: as the Monkes & Friers haue done, one sort persecuting another for their opinions euen to death. Fulk. annot. 1. Thess. 1. sect. 2. Fox. pag. 798.

The Protestants.

COntrariwise we affirme, that it is a great derogation to Christ when the people shall say, I follow the religion of Augustine, the religon of Fran∣cis, an other sayth, I holde of Dominick, another, I hold of Iesus, as the Iesu∣ites doe: Fulk. Philip. 3. vers. 17.

1 Saint Paul reproueth the Corinthians, because they made the like sects amongst themselues: one sayd I am Pauls, another, I am Apolloes, and conclu∣deth that therefore they were carnall, 1. Cor. 3.4. And further, he sayth, they should not reioyce in men, for all things were theirs, whether Paul, Apollos, or Page  230Cephas, ver. 21.22. That is, they were not masters of their fayth, to institute new religions and sects, but the Ministers and seruants of the Lords inheritance: If therefore it was not lawful to say, I hold of Paul, I hold of Cephas: neither is it lawfull to say, I holde of Dominick, I hold of Francis: I hold of Iesus: for seeing they make their sects, and Iesus maketh his, it is euident, that they are not all referred to the imitation of Iesus: for then they might all as well bee called Ie∣suites.

2 The number of Monkes and Friers was almost infinite, sects vpon sects, and new orders daylie were deuised, as Augustinians, Bernardines, Carmelites, Carthusians, Dominicanes, Franciscanes, and a great sort more, to the number of an hundred sects, as they are reckoned by Master Fox. pag. 260. and Til∣mane Heshus. setteth downe 65, seueral sects or rather schismes of Monkes, loc. 25. error 10. This yrksome rabble therefore of Monkes is fitly shadowed foorth by the swarme of Locusts, which came vp out of the bottomlesse pitte, Apocal. 9.4. And verily as the Locusts and Grashoppers consume and de∣uoure the fruits of the earth, so the begging-Friers, and idle Monkes deuou∣red the goods of the people, and corrupted the doctrine of the Church.

3 Lastly, this diuision of Monkery into sects and sundry orders, is of no great antiquitie: they were not knowen in Augustines time, who knew no o∣ther name of them, then Monkes: for hee wrote a booke of purpose, de opere Monachorum: of the labour of Monkes: But other names of Carmelites, Carthusians, Franciscanes, or such like were not heard of in the Church in those dayes: but came in long after in the time of Innocentius 3. about anno 1212. many yeeres after Augustine, Fox. pag. 259.

THE SECOND QVESTION CONCER∣ning the Counsels of perfection.

The Papists.

THis they say is the very foundation of the Monastical life, which is the most [error 84] perfect estate and calling of Christians: for they performe more then Christ hath commaunded, not onely his precepts, but euen his Counsels also: Which, they say, doe much differ: for the precepts are inioyned to all Christians, and to leaue a precept vndone is sinne: but the Euangelicall Counsels are giuen on∣ly to those that are perfect, which they are not bound to keepe, neither doe they sinne in leauing them vndone, yet if they obserue them, they doe merite more and shall haue a greater rewarde: Such Counsels of perfection are these, to giue all we haue to the poore, to abstaine from eating of flesh, to vow cha∣stitie and such like, Bellarm. cap. 7. Rhemist. annot. Math. 19. sect. 9.

1 Matth. 19. verse 21. Christ sayth, goe and sell all thou hast, if thou wilt bee perfect. This was a Counsel of perfection, not a precept giuen to all Christians.

Answ. First, this was both a Counsel and precept, though not to al, yet to Page  236 this one man, to discouer his hypocrisie and vayne confidence which he had in himselfe, as though he had kept the law, when he was farre from it, Fulk. Matth. 19.9. Mark. 10.3. Secondly, it is a generall precept vnto all, to loue the Lord with all the heart, and to be content, when the Lord requireth, for Christs sake to leaue all we haue, Caluin. Institut. 4. cap. 13. sect. 13.

2 Act. 2.44. They had all things common. This is not a rule or precept to all Christian men to liue in common, but a life of perfection and counsell fol∣lowed of the Religious, Rhemist.

Answere: This liuing in common among the brethren in the Apostles time, is the same that ought alwayes to be among all Christians, that no man account that to be his owne, which the necessitie of his brother requireth to be bestowed vpon him: this the rule of charitie requireth, which is one of the great commandements. Fulk. in hunc locum.

3 1. Corinth. 7.25. Concerning Virgins I haue no commaundement of the Lord, but I giue mine aduice. A precept therefore is one thing, a Counsel of perfection another, Bellarm. cap. 9.

Answere: First, Paul hath no generall commandement from God to im∣pose the yoke of continencie vpon any, because God had left marriage free, and therefore no man is to be barred and kept from it: But the Apostles par∣ticular aduice and sentence (being moued by the spirit of God, vers. 40.) is not onely a Counsel, but a commandement, that both they which haue the gift of continencie, should glorifie God by that gift, vers. 7. and they which haue it not, should marrie rather then burne, and so dishonour God, vers. 9. There∣fore the Apostle sayth, Let euery man wherein he is called therein abide with God. vers. 24. If a man be called to liue single, hee ought to obey his calling, hauing receiued the gift: if a man be called to the maried estate, he must not presume beyond his strength, to liue vnmaried. Wherefore it is both Counsel & a precept, to those that haue receiued the gift of single life: for otherwise they disobey Gods calling, which is sinne. And our Sauiour sayth, he that is able to receiue it, let him receiue it, Matth. 19.12. He that hath the gift, is commanded to vse it, for in leesing it he sinneth. And lastly, euery man by commandement is bound to the vttermost of his power to set forth Gods glorie: But God is most glorified by the single life of those, which are able to conteine, and therefore they ought in duetie so to doe.

The Protestants.

WE doe truely affirme and according to the scriptures, that it is impossi∣ble for any man to performe the law and commaundements of GOD, much lesse to fulfill more then is commaunded: And therefore it is false, that beside the precepts of Christ there are Counsels of perfection, which are at a mans choyce to doe or not to doe: for whatsoeuer is to the glorie of God wee are bound to doe: We acknowledge then no such euangelical Counsels, as they imagine, Caluin.

Page  2371 Math. 5.48. Our Sauiour sayth: Ye shall be perfect, as your heauenly fa∣ther is perfect. Therefore all Counsels tending to perfection, are commande∣ments. If there be any thing whereby we may more neerely attaine vnto per∣fection, that we are bound and commanded to doe: As if a man can better ob∣taine this perfection of godlinesse, by liuing single, if he haue the gift, he ought to doe it: for hauing not the gift, and yet presuming, he burneth in lust, and so is set further backe in the course of godlines, Caluin. argument.

2 We are bound to loue God with all our heart, with all our soule, with all our strength: Therefore whatsoeuer thing there is, whereby wee may expresse the loue of God, we are bound by commandement to doe it, it is not left to our owne will: for not to loue God more then thou doest, if it be in thy power, it is a grieuous sinne, Martyris argument.

Bellarmine answereth thus: Qui deum diligit super omnia, etiamsi eum non tam ardenter amet, quàm forte posset, vel non faciat pro eo omnia, quae posset, ille habet deum pro summo bono, cap. 13. He that loueth God aboue all things, although he loue him not so entirely, as perhaps he may, neither doth all things for his sake, that lie in his power, yet for al this, he esteemeth of God as his chief good: I pray you see what contradictorie speeches these be: The Iesuit sayth, a man may loue God perfectly and aboue all, and yet not loue him so much as he is able, that is, imperfectly: so a man, by his Monkish diuinitie, may loue God aboue all, and yet not loue him aboue all: for if he did, he would refuse to do nothing for Gods loue that is in his power.

3 Luk. 17.10.

When you haue done all those things which are comman∣ded you, say, we are vnprofitable seruants, and did nothing but that which was our duetie to doe:
Ergo, we are bound to doe all things that are to be done, and we cannot doe that which we ought, much lesse more then wee ought to doe, Martyris argument.

Bellarmine answereth: First, Christ sayth, when you haue done all which I commanded you, not which I counselled you.*

Ans. As though the argument followeth not strongly: you cannot doe the lesse, that is, keepe my commandements, therefore you cannot doe the more, that is, speaking now (as the Iesuite doth) the Counsels of perfection, which are more then the precepts: It is a precept of necessitie to dispense our goods to the vse of the poore, it is a counsell of perfection, as they say, to giue all away to the poore: But if a man cannot performe the first, that is, keeping his goods to vse them aright, much lesse is hee able with a resolute minde to giue them all a∣way.

Secondly, he answereth: Christ biddeth them to say so, as shewing their hu∣militie, not that they were indeede vprofitable seruants. A poore shift, as though Christ enuied the good of his seruants, or would obscure their wel-doing, and doth not rather aduance it to the vttermost, and make the most of the seruice∣able workes of his children, as wee see, Matth. 25.34. And Christ being a faithfull Prophet, would not surely deceiue his Disciples, and tell theme one Page  238 thing, and himselfe knowe and thinke another. But these Frierlike mists and smoake of Locusts, is not able to dimme the cleere light of this scripture, which sheweth, that when we haue done all wee can doe, wee come farre short of our duetie.

4 Augustine, though sometime he seeme to make some difference betweene a precept and a Counsel: Praeceptum est, saith he, cui non obedire, peccatum est: Con∣silium, quo si vti nolueris, minus boni adipisceris, non mali aliquid perpetrabis. De virginit. cap. 15. A precept is that, which not to obey, is sinne: A Counsel is that, which if thou wilt not followe, thou doest not commit any euill, yet thou hast the lesse good. Though he seeme in words, I say, to make difference, yet his meaning is this, That a precept is of things necessarie, as to followe vertue, to eschue vice: A Counsel is of things indifferent, as to vse or not to vse, as to eate or not to eate flesh: But yet the occasion may so serue, that euen this counsel is necessarie: for we ought not to eate flesh to offend our brother. Multa facienda sunt non iubente lege, sed libera charitate: Many things are to be done (sayth he) not by force of any lawe, but by the rule of charitie: that is, we haue no particu∣lar law, but the generall rule of charitie. A Counsel then is seene in things indif∣ferent, which are alwaies lawfull, but not alway expedient: and it is nothing els but a particular application of the generall rule of charitie: Charitie wisheth that nothing should be done to offend our brethen, 1. Cor. 10.32. The scripture likewise giueth libertie to eate flesh, there is no generall precept or prohibitione yet the Apostle giueth counsel, that is, according to the rule of charitie sayth, that although all things are cleane: Malum tamen est homini, qui per offensionem manducat: yet it is euill to the man that eateth with offence, Roman. 14.20. Here we see the transgression of an Apostolicall Counsel is sinne: And though we be not bound by any particular precept, at this time or that to abstaine from flesh, yet, qua facienda sunt libera charitate, the things that are to be done in the du∣tie of loue, doe as well binde vs, as if we had a direct commandement: for loue is the fulfilling of the commandements, yea it is one of the great commande∣ments to loue one another. Yet the counsel or libertie concerning indifferent things, remaineth in it owne nature free still: as the Apostle counselleth to eate, not asking any question: in such a case it is neither euill not to eate, nor good to eate: but if any man be present that may take offence by our eating, then is it euill to eate. So Augustine cōcludeth: Multa mihi videntur licere & non expe∣dire, quae per iustitiā, quae coram deo est, permittuntur, sed propter offensionē hominū vitanda sunt. Many things are lawful, but not expedient, lawful before God, but not expedient because of the offence of our brethen. De adulter. coniug. lib. 1. cap. 14.17. Thus we see Augustine doth nothing fauour the popish distinction of precepts and counsels: for by his sentence, euen Counsels, that is, the libertie and freedome of things indifferent, are restrained, and made necessarie in the externall vse, by the rule of charitie.

Page  239


THis question hath three parts: first, whether it bee lawfull for Christians to make vowes. Secondly, in what things lawfull vowes consist. Thirdly, whe∣ther voluntarie vowes be any part of the worship and seruice of God.

THE FIRST PART, WHETHER VOWES PER∣tayned onely to the old law, and are not now permitted vnto Christians.
The Papists.

THey hold it as lawfull, and as free a thing for Christians to bind themselues by vowes vnto God, as it was vsed and practised of the Iewes in the time of the [error 85] lawe.

1 Isay 19.21. They shall knowe the Lord in that day, and doe sacrifice and oblation, and vow vowes vnto God and performe them. This prophecie is con∣cerning Christians, which should in the time of the Gospell make vowes vnto God, Bellarm. cap. 17.

Ans. The Prophet doth, by the externall seruice of God vsed in the Church at that time, set foorth the spirituall worship of God in the Church of Christ: for Iewish vowes shall be no more then in force, then their sacrifices and oblations. Also vers. 19. the Prophet sayth, that an Altar shall bee set vp in Aegypt, and vers. 18. They shall speake the language of Canaan: But these things were not literally, but mystically performed, neither is it necessarie the other should.

2 Psal. 76.11. Vow vnto God and performe: Ergo, vowes now are lawfull, Bellarm. ibid.

Ans. It appeareth by the text, that it was a commandement vnto the Iewes, and for that time: for it followeth, Al ye that are round about him: that is, the Leuites and Priests that dwelt round about the temple. And bring presents to him that ought to be feared: but now Christians bring no such externall presents and gifts, therefore it cannot be properly vnderstood of them.

The Protestants.

WE do not condemne al vowes, neither denye, but that a Christian in some cases may vow, as presently it followeth to be shewed: But Iewish vowes are vtterly vnlawfull, such as the vowes of the Nazarites were, Numb. 6. as to abstaine from wine and strong drinke, not to shaue their haire, and such like: if we place religion in such vowes.

Page  2401 Their vowes were ceremonious, and consisted in externall rites, which were shadowes and significations of spirituall things: as not to cut their haire, not to touch any dead thing, to abstaine from wine and strong drinke: But all shadowes are now gone and abolished: and such externall vsages are vnpro∣fitable, as were those precepts of the false Apostles, Touch not, tast not, handle not: which all perish with the vsing, and are the commandements of men, as S. Paul sayth, Coloss. 2.21.22. Such precepts notwithstanding, Monkes & Friers at this day doe binde themselues vnto: for it is not lawfull for them to touch sil∣uer nor to tast flesh, according to the strict and superstitious rules of their Patrones.

2 The Nazarites were by their vowes separated vnto God, Numb. 6.2. that is, were counted as more holy, during their vowes, and better accepted of before God. But now God is not pleased by any such externall rites, or bodily seruices: In Christ Iesu, neither circumcision auaileth any thing, nor vncircum∣cision, but faith that worketh by loue, Galath. 5.6.

3 S. Paul sayth, He that is circumcised is bound to keepe the whole law, Ga∣lath. 5.3. He that keepeth any one ceremonie of the lawe, doth make himselfe a seruant to the whole lawe: for if after the profession of the Nazarites, they will vow not to drinke wine, not to shaue their heads, hereby the better to please God: why are they not also purified, and bring an offering according to the law, as Paul did, who because of the infirmitie of the Iewes, was agreed with foure other men which had a vow, to bee purified according to the law? But this S. Paul did being amongst the Iewes, who cryed out against him as a brea∣ker of the lawe, lest he should be scandalous vnto them.

Augustine thus notably writeth concerning this matter: Sicut defuncta cor∣pora necessariorum officijs deducenda erant quodammodo ad sepulchrum, non dese∣renda continuò, vel sicut canibus proijcienda. The ceremonies of the lawe (sayth he) were not presently to be cast off, but as dead bodies must bee brought to the graue with some seemely pompe of their friends, and not to be cast vnto dogs. Thus he sayth, that in the Apostles time all Iewish ceremonies were not in act abolished, though they were alreadie as dead carkasses, that is, by right depriued of life: yet they required some space to bee honourably layd downe, and as it were buried. But whosoeuer would now goe about to renew the Iewish cere∣monies againe (sayth he) Tanquam sopitos cineres eruens, non erit pius deductor vel baiulus corporis, sed impius sepulturae violator: He should as it were rake in dead mens ashes, and not be a seemely bringer of the bodie to the ground, but a wicked violator of Christian buriall: Euen so Augustine maketh it as wicked a part, to bring in vse any Iewish rites, as to pull one, honestly buried, out of his graue.

Page  241
THE SECOND PART, WHAT THINGS MAY lawfully be vowed by Christians.
The Papists.

THey hold that the proper vowes of Christians are voluntarie, not of such [error 85] things which Christians are bound in duetie to doe, but of such as they may leaue vndone, if they will, such as are their popish vowes of continencie and vo∣luntarie, or rather wilfull pouertie.

1 Deuteron. 23.

When thou shalt vow a vow vnto God, thou shalt not bee slack to pay it, it should be sinne vnto thee, but when thou abstainest from vow∣ing, it shall be no sinne vnto thee.
By this the Iesuite proueth, that the vowes of Christians are voluntarie, and not of necessarie dueties, for it were sinne to leaue any thing vndone, that we are in duetie bound vnto, cap. 19.

Ans. First: We denie not but that the Iewes had voluntarie vowes, and might binde themselues by vow to performe many things, which being not vowed, it was no sinne to leaue vndone: As the Nazarites vowes concerning abstinence from wine and strong drinke: which things other might lawfully vse without sinne, if they were not professed Nazarites. But these ceremoniall lawes doe nothing appertaine to Christians.

Secondly, it may also be vnderstood of necessarie vowes, which we are bound vnto of duetie, and then the sense is this: If you abstaine from vowing ye sinne not, that is, not so hainously as after the vowe made; as Pagans and Infidels doe sinne in transgressing Gods law: but a Christian sinneth more after publike pro∣fession and promise made of obedience vnto Gods commandements.

The Protestants.

WE hold that to vow is not a thing simply forbidden Christians: but our vowes are limited and restrained: for they are either such, as directly or immediatly are referred to the worship of God, whereby wee binde our selues more straightly to serue him: and such vowes are onely of such things as are commanded and necessarily to be done: and in this sense there is but one com∣mon vow of all Christians, and that is our solemne promise made in baptisme, which the Papists denie properly to be a vow, Bellarmin, cap 19. There is another kind of vowes, that directly concerneth not the worship of God, which may be of things not commanded, of the which we will entreate in the next section. Now wee are to proue, that Baptisme is the onely proper vow of Christians, which directly toucheth the seruice and worship of God.

1 Circumcision was a generall vow of the Iewes, for thereby they bound themselues to keepe the whole law, Galath. 5.3. Ergo, Baptisme is the vowe of Christians, which commeth in the place of circumcision. And againe, it appea∣reth Page  242 by this, that because Christians transgressing, doe deserue greater punish∣ment, then Iewes or Gentiles, that they are more straightly obliged and bound by their couenant vnto God then the other: and not onely, as the Iesuite sayth, because they haue tasted more of the goodnesse of God, and so are more vn∣thankfull: for there are two parts of the couenant betweene God and vs: The Lord sayth, Thou art my people, and so enricheth them with knowledge, and e∣uery good thing: The people say, Thou art my God, Hosh. 2.23. And thus as the Lord doth couenant with them, so they doe binde themselues vnto God: The breach of which couenant, is that which stirreth vp principally the anger of God against vs.

2 Augustine vpon the 75 Psalme writeth thus: Vouete & reddite domino de vestro omnes communiter: Quid debemus vouere? credere in illum, sperare ab illo vitam aeternam, bene viuere, secundum communem modum: Make your vowes and pay them vnto God generally altogether. What must we vow? to beleeue in him, to hope for eternall life, to liue honestly, not to steale, not to commit a∣dulterie. These then are the common and generall dueties of Christians: no o∣ther then we promised and vowed in baptisme.

THE THIRD PART, CONCERNING VOLVNTA∣rie vowes, whether they be any part of the worship of God.
The Papists.

[error 86] AL voluntarie vowes (say they) made by Christians, as not to eate flesh, not to drinke strong drinke, or to liue vnmarried; doe concerne the worship of God, and thereby men are made more acceptable vnto him, Bellar. cap. 16.

1 Iacob vowed to pay tithes, Genes. 28. Dauid to build a temple vnto God, Psal. 131.2. But neither of these two were commanded them, and yet they were properly referred to the seruice of God.

Ans. First, we denye not, as we haue sayd, but that in the law and before there might be such voluntarie vowes, yet it followeth not, that there should bee any such now. Secondly, both those dueties were necessarie, and commanded in generall, though not in particular. As first, Iacobs vow was that the Lord should be his God, vers. 21. No man can denye, but this was necessarie, and a comman∣dement: Then seeing the Lord is his God, it is also necessarie that he should ac∣knowledge him by some externall worship, as by appointing the Lord an house in that place, and bringing oblations vnto his altars: these are but particular du∣ties, that doe followe that generall commandement.

Secondly, Dauid did vow that, he was bound to doe being King of Israel, namely, to haue a care of the temple of God: for thus he sayth to Nathan the Prophet, I dwell in an house of Cedar trees: but the Arke of God remaineth within the curtaines, 2. Sam. 7.2. This belonged to the King of duetie, as it was generally commanded all Israel, Hagg. 1.4. but that Dauid was discharged of this care, by the especiall warrant of God by the Prophet.

Page  2432 Hebr. 13.16. To doe good and to destribute forget not, for with such sacri∣fices God is pleased. Intelligitur (sayth Bellarmine) de eleemosyna non praeceptae: it must be vnderstood of almes which is not commanded.

Ans. As though all kind of almes and releeuing of the poore be not comman∣ded: for the works of charitie, and to doe good are alwaies enioyned vs. Againe, this place serueth nothing at al for vowes: It seemeth he was hard bestead, that had no better choise of places.

The Protestants.

WE grant that there are other kind of vowes then before we spake of, which doe not directly concerne the worship of God, neither are of things com∣manded vs, nor yet is God thereby the better pleased: but they serue onely as helps, to make vs more fit vnto Christian dueties: As a man that seeth he is by nature giuen to dronkennes, doth vowe that he will take no strong drinke, lest he should offend that way: Another purposeth to fast, thereby to tame his flesh, and the more feruently to pray: As Iob made a couenant with his eyes not to looke vpon a maide, 31.1. But these things of themselues, by the outward act, are not the more acceptable vnto God, neither is God by eating or not eating, or looking or not looking, the better worshipped, as these things are conside∣red in themselues. Wherefore by the word of God we condemne all voluntary and superstitious vowes of men, inuented to serue God by, as vowes of chasti∣tie, of going in pilgrimage, offering to Images, and such like.

1 S. Paul condēneth al voluntary worship of God which is inuented by man, as vnprofitable, though it haue a shew of wisedome in humblenes of mind, and not sparing the bodie, Coloss. 2.23. As such are the ordinances of the world in worshipping of Angels, and in abstinence, Touch not, tast not, handle not. But such are all popish vowes, a voluntary seruice of God, euen in the same things which the Apostle taketh exception against, for they make vowes to Angels, to Saints, vowes to keepe daies holy, and to fast in them: Ergo, they are vn∣lawfull.

2 Rom. 14.23. Whatsoeuer is not of faith, is sinne, that is, grounded vpon knowledge out of the word: Ergo, all voluntarie vowes made to serue God by are to be abandoned, because they haue no warrant out of Gods word. Bellar∣mine answereth, that the place is not so to be vnderstood, but rather, by faith, is meant the conscience of man, and so whatsoeuer is done against the conscience is sinne.

Ans. By faith, is not vnderstood any conscience, but the assurance of a right conscience, which must needes be builded vpon the word: for vers. 22. S. Paul saith, If thou hast faith, haue it with God: This cannot be spoken of a corrupt conscience which is not able to abide Gods trial, but a right conscience establi∣shed out of the word.

Page  2443 Let vs heare Augustines iudgement: Sunt multi, qui vouent, alius pallium, alius oleum, alius ceream ad luminaria noctis, alius vt vinum non bibat per aliquot annos, alius vt ieiunia certo tēpore faciat, alius vt carnes non comedat. Non est istud votum optimum neque perfectum, adhuc melius volo: non eligit Deus nec speciem tuam, nec oleum tuum, nec ieiunium tuum, sed hoc, quod hodie redemit, ipsum offer, hoc est, animam tuam. There are many that vow, one a cloake, another oyle, an∣other a waxe candle, another that he will drinke no wine, another that he will fast, another that he will eate no flesh. This is not the best kind of vowing: God neither careth for thy comely apparell, nor for thy oyle, nor for thy fasting: but offer that vnto him, which he hath redeemed, that is, thy soule, De tempor. ser. 7. We see by this, what account Augustine maketh of superstitious voluntarie vowes, made with an intent to please God thereby.

THE FOVRTH QVESTION CONCERNING Monasticall vowes in particular.

THere are three kinds of vowes which belong vnto Monkerie: the first is the vow of voluntarie pouertie: the second, the vow of obedience vnto the Mo∣nasticall presidents and gouernours: the third is the vow of continencie: of these three in order.

THE FIRST PART CONCERNING THE vow of voluntarie pouertie.
The Papists.

THey say it is an acceptable seruice vnto GOD, for a man to giue all he hath [error 87] to the poore, and by vow to consecrate and addict himselfe to voluntarie pouertie.

1 Math. 18.21. Christ faith, If thou wilt be perfect, goe and sell all thou hast, and giue it to the poore, and come and followe me. This is properly to followe Christ, to lacke proprietie and liue in common: and thus the Apostles followed Christ, Rhemist. ibid.

Ans. First, This is a precept not generall to all, but giuen to this one man to discouer his hypocrisie, and vaine confidence that he had in himselfe, as though he had kept the law, which he came farre short of. Secondly, the Apostles them∣selues had proprietie: Peter had a house: Iohn had to prouide for the virgin Ma∣rie, whom Christ commended vnto him: Matthew made a feast of his owne goods, Fulk. ibid.

2 Act. 2.44. They had all things common: and Act. 5. Ananias and Sapphira, after their profession of commō life, deteining some part proper to themselues, were reproued and iudged of the Apostles: Ergo, it is acceptable to God to liue in common, Rhemist. ibid. Bellarm. cap. 20.

Page  245Answere: First, that communitie, vsed then amongst the brethren, ought alwayes to be among Christians, no man to count that his owne which the ne∣cessitie of his brother requireth to be bestowed vpon him: euery man was not then bound to giue vp the proprietie of their goods: for they distributed to eue∣ry man as they had need, Act. 4.35. But if they had giuen vp all the proprietie of their goods, then all should haue needed alike: And Peter sayth not the con∣trary, but that Ananias might haue kept the proprietie of his goods, if he had not made publike profession to the contrarie, Act. 5.4.

2 Concerning Ananias, we doe not read that he made any vowe to giue his goods to the Church: nay the contrary appeareth, in that Saint Peter saith, While it remayned with thee, appertained it not to thee? But if his vowe were past before, the goods, though not yet solde, could not appertaine vnto him. Agayne, the principall and chiefe cause, why Peter proceeded agaynst him, was his lying and hypocrisie, not for breaking his vow: for it cannot bee pro∣ued that he promised all, but that he affirmed that hee brought all, whereas hee withdrew part.

The Protestants.

VOluntarie, or rather wilfull pouertie, for a man, hauing no vrgent cause, to leaue all he hath, and bequeath himselfe to a poore and needie life, one∣ly for opinion of greater merite, and hope thereby better to please God, is nei∣ther a thing acceptable nor commendable before God, nor any where com∣manded in the scriptures.

1 1. Timoth. 6.17. Saint Paul giuing Counsel to rich men, biddeth them not to cast away their riches: but Charge them, sayth he, that they be not high minded, nor put their trust in vncertain riches: Surely it had been a more com∣pēdious way to wish them at once to leaue their riches, so they should not be in danger, either of pride, or vaine confidence: But the Apostle saith no such thing. Againe, God giueth vs abundantly al things to enioy: riches are the gift of God, we ought not to be weary of Gods blessing. And as Iob sayth, The Lord giueth, the Lord taketh: therefore a man ought not to make himselfe poore, because he made not himselfe rich, but to waite vpon God.

Further it followeth, vers. 18. that they do good, and be rich in good works: he that can vse riches well, may bee rich in good workes; but he that is poore wanteth occasion and meanes to doe good, as the rich man indued with grace may: Wherefore he is an enemie to the glorie of God, that changeth his rich estate, wherein he may more glorifie God, for a poore.

Agayne, if it were so acceptable a thing to God, and so meritorious to liue in pouertie, what made the Prophet to pray agaynst it? Giue mee not pouertie nor riches, but feede me with foode conuenient, Prouer. 30. vers. 8.

2 What better argument can we haue against them, then their own pra∣ctise? for, though in words they much commend voluntarie pouertie, yet it is Page  246 a rare thing, to finde it amongst them: for not one among a thousand of them, if they haue landes, doe giue them to the poore, but to their owne kinsfolkes, or else to the Abbeyes, where they know they shalbe wealthily maintained. The Pope also is good to many, and granteth them capacities to possesse temporall goods contrary to their former vowe. Fulk. annot. Mark. 10. sect. 3.

3 Augustine sayth, Diuitiae seculares si desint, non per opera mala quarantur in mundo: Si autem adsunt, per opera bona seruentur in coelo: Epist. 1. posteriorum. If secular riches be wanting, let not a man seeke to get them by euill doing in the world: but if he haue them, labour, by well doing, to store them vp in hea∣uen. He counselleth not men to cast away their riches: It was the heresie of the Pelagians to perswade rich men to cast away their goods, August. epistol. 106. and of the Manichees likewise, August. cont. Faustum. lib. 5. cap. 10.

THE SECOND PART CONCERNING the vowe of obedience.
The Papists.

[error 88] THey that doe enter into the monkish profession, do vow in all things to be∣come obedient to their gouernour, & to follow his rules & iniunctions: As the Franciscanes follow Saint Francis rule, who in stead of a girdle, put a corde about him, went bare-foote, in winter season couered his flesh with yce and snow.* It is acceptable, and gratefull seruice, say they, vnto God, to be thus obe∣dient to their fathers and gouernours.

1 Ierem. 35. The sonnes of Ionadab are commended, for being obedient to their father, who enioyned them to drink no wine, nor to sow their fields, nor builde houses but dwell in tents: See, they obeyed their father in thinges not commanded of God: Ergo, so ought religious Monkes to doe. Bellarm. cap. 21.

Answer. First you cannot shew, that your monkish Abbots haue such au∣thoritie ouer their Monkes, as the father hath ouer his children: for Coloss. 3. and in many other places, children are commanded to be obedient to their pa∣rents: But they haue neither authoritie nor calling out of the word. Secondly, Ionadab inioyned nothing contrarie to the law of the Nazarites, Numb. 6. and if you say, that it was not the custome of the Nazarites to dwell in tents: you shall finde that the Rechabites did not so straightly obserue this, as the o∣ther, namely not to drinke wine: for Ierem. 35.11. they came vp for feare of the Caldeans that were in the land, and dwelt at Ierusalem: they dispensed with the voluntarie iniunction of their father, for dwelling in their tents, but kept the other vow of abstaining from wine still, because it was after the law. Wherefore this example maketh not for monkish obedience, seing they are in∣ioyned things not commanded by God, nay contrary to his commande∣ments.

Page  247
The Protestants.

NO obedience to any ruler either spirituall or temporall is to be yelded vn∣to, but for the Lords sake, and in such matters, wherein we haue the war∣rant of Gods word for our obedience.

1 Coloss. 3.23. Seruants be obedient to your masters, and whatsoeuer you do, doe it heartily as to the Lord: But if any thing be inioyned vs which is not warranted by the word of God, we cannot with a good conscience obey as before the Lord. Agayne, Saint Paul saith, Coloss. 2.18. Let no man at his plea∣sure beare rule ouer you, or beguile you, or as the Rhemists translate, seduce you wilfully: Ergo, no man must impose rules of life beside the Gospel, for this were to rule ouer men at their pleasure.

2 Augustine sayth, Cum homo conster anima & corpore, oportet nos ex ea parte, quae ad hanc vitam pertinet, subditos esse potestatibu: ex illa parte, qua cre∣dimus deo, & ad eius regnum vocamur, non oportet nos cuiqua esse subditos: Seeing a man doth consist both of bodie and soule; in regard of that parte, which the affayres of this life concerne, we ought to be subiect to the high∣er powers: but in respect of that part whereby we beleeue, and are called to the kingdome of God, we must be obedient to none, August. in 13. ad Rom. Therefore no man may impose any new religion vpon vs, which altogether toucheth the conscience.

THE THIRD PART CONCERNING THE vow of continencie or chastitie.
The Papistes.

THe vow of chast and continent life is commendable and meritorious, they say, in all that doe take it vpon them, and after the vow made, they are sure [error 89] to receiue that high gift of continencie, if they duely labour for it, Rhemist. an∣not. 1. Corinth. 7. ver. 7. But whosoeuer marrieth after the vow made, sinneth damnably, and turneth back after Sathan. Rhemist. annot. 1. Tim. 5. sect. 12.

1 Math. 19.12. Some haue made themselues chaste, or as the Rhemists doe very homely translate it, haue gelded themselues for the kingdome of hea∣uen: this proueth the vowes of chastitie to be both lawfull and meritorious, Rhemist. in hunc locum.

Ans. This is meant onely of those that haue the gift of continencie, who, if they be sure they haue receiued it, may vow and purpose single life: but with∣out such assurance no man can vow continencie lawfully. Secondly, but as for meriting, it commeth neither by being maried or vnmaried, but is the free gift of God through Christ. Fulk. ibid.

2 1. Timoth. 5.12. Hauing damnation because they haue cast away their first fayth: that is, the vow of continencie, which they made to Christ: it cannot Page  248 be meant of the first fayth in baptisme, for that is not lost by mariage, Rhemist. And againe, vers. 15. They are turned back after sathan: we may here learne, for those to marrie which are professed, is to turne back after Sathan. Rhemist. in eum locum.

Answer: First, Saint Paul speaketh not here of widowes alreadie chosen, but to be chosen: hee would haue younger widdowes to bee chosen, because they woulde waxe wanton, and marrie: and therefore it is not like, that by the first fayth heere is meant the vowe of chastitie, seeing there is no cause that these younger widdowes shoulde make any vowe, beeing excluded by the Apostle from Church seruices. Secondly, vers. 14. Saint Paul himselfe Counselleth the younger widdowes to marrie, therefore it is not like they were votaries. Thirdly, by the first fayth is vnderstood the Christian fayth, which the younger widowes waxing wanton, and lasciuious, nor carying to match with Infidels, were in danger to breake, as the Apostle telleth them of some that had done so already, and were turned backe after Sathan. Fourthly, we say not that the fayth of baptisme is broken by all mariage, but with ioyning with Infi∣dels. Fiftly, it appeareth what breach of faith Paul meaneth, when he sayth, They waxe wanton, and idle, and are busie-bodies, goe from house to house, and speake things vncomely, verse 13. Which is a sliding back from the Chri∣stian fayth, when our life iarreth with our profession: not a breach of any vow of continencie, Fulk. 1. Timoth. 5. sect. 10.12.

The Protestants.

OVr sentence then appeareth to be this: that the vow of continencie cannot lawfully be made of all, neither is indifferently to be required of them, see∣ing all are not indued with that gift, Fulk. Math. 19.6. And that it is better e∣uen for vowed persons, hauing rashly presumed beyond their strength, to marrie, rather then to burne. Fulk. 1. Cor. 7. sect. 8.

1 The scripture euery where commaundeth such to vse the benefite of mariage,* that haue not the gift to liue single, 1. Cor. 7.2. For auoyding of for∣nication let euery man haue his wife: and ver. 9. If they cannot abstaine let them marrie. Wherefore they transgresse the commandement of God, and presume rashly, that hauing not this gift, doe vow virginitie.

Bellarmin. Answer. First, Saint Paul wisheth men to marrie, not for euery temptation of lust, but when they are ready to fall into externall workes of vncleannes, as into fornication: and therefore hee sayth, For auoyding of fornication let euery one haue his wife: For Saint Paul felt the pricke of the flesh, that is, the lust of concupiscence, and was buffeted of it, yet maried not for all that cap. 30. Rhemist. annot. 1. Corinth. 7. sect. 8.

Answere: First, we say not that for euery light temptation, which by re∣sisting may be ouercome, in those that haue the gift of continencie, a man is to desire mariage, but when he is continually enflamed with lust, so that the will doth consent: though he be not yet so ouercome, that he fall in outward Page  249 vncleannes: and this is the Apostles meaning, when hee sayth, It is better to marrie then to burne, that is, with inward lust when his minde is dis∣quieted: And such a man as doth burne with secret concupiscence, still wrast∣ling with that fire, and not being able to quench it, if he refuse to vse the lawfull remedie of mariage, is in danger also to fall into outward fornication.

2 Concerning Pauls example: First, the place is not so to be vnderstoode of the lust of concupiscence: for it is not like, that the Apostle being kept vnder, with hunger, colde, imprisonment, should bee so greatly tempted that way. But either it may be vnderstood of the particular temptation to pride and vain∣glorie, as he him selfe expoundeth it, vers. 7. lest I should be exalted out of mea∣sure through the abundance of reuelations: Or else generally Saint Paul vn∣derstandeth by flesh, the whole masse of corruption and whatsoeuer was in him that resisted the spirite: In this sense he crieth out, Roman. 7. Who shall deliuer me from this body of death! Caluin.

2 Though we yeeld that Saint Paul was tempted of his concupiscence, yet he ouercame and subdued it, obtayning from God, after some striuing, grace and power to quench the secret fire: And so we denie not, but that men ought by fasting and prayer to labour for that precious gift. But if they feele the fire to burne within them still, then are they to vse the remedie prescribed by Saint Paul, that is, to marrie.

Secondly, sayth Bellarmine, Saint Paul giueth libertie of mariage onely to those which were free and had not vowed continencie, cap. 31.

Answere: First, the Apostles words are generall: Let euery man haue his wife: I, say the Rhemists, he speaketh of those that were maried before their conuersion, that they might still vse and keepe their wiues. Yea but Saint Paul speaketh of all vnmaried, in the verse next before, It is good not to touch a woman: I trow he meaneth not, it is good for a man that is maried not to touch his wife. Secondly, it is a generall libertie, which he granteth to all, ver. 9. If they cannot conteine, let them marry: but many votaries cannot con∣tayne, as it may appeare by the vnchast liues of your Monkish rabble: there∣fore hauing the disease, they may vse the remedie, that is, marrie.

Argum. 2. Virginitie, and continent life is onely to be required of those which haue the gift of continencie: But all haue not that gift: Ergo, the vow of Virginitie is not indifferently to be made by any. That the gift of continen∣cie cannot be had or obtayned of all, neither resteth in our free wil, it is plaine by scripture.

1 Math. 19.12. He that is able to receiue this gift, let him receiue it: Ergo, all are notable to receiue it.

Bellarmin. First, though they are not able to receiue it yet, yet they may if they will, and aske for it by prayer: for the text is, Some haue made them∣selues chaste for the kingdome of God: whereby it appeareth that it is in the will of man, cap. 31. Answer. Hee speaketh cleane contrary to the text: for Christ sayth, None receiue it but to whom it is giuen, and the wordes are, Page  250qui capere potest, not, qui velit, hee that can receiue, not hee that will receiue. And they are sayd to make themselues chaste, not because it is in their owne choyce, but being enabled of God, and hauing receiued power ouer their will, they are sayd to make themselues chaste, hauing receiued power by the spirit of God: So our Sauiour sayth, Come vnto me all ye that are laden, Math. 11. & yet no man commeth to Christ, but his father first draweth him, Iohn 6.44. Wherefore it being a peculiar gift of God, all cannot haue it, neither are sure to obtaine it, though they aske it by prayer, because wee haue no promise to bee heard.

Rhemist. When a man is bound to abstaine by vow, or other necessarie occasion, as imprisonment, banishment, sicknes, no doubt, if he labour for the gifte of continencie, he may haue it. Ans. They that binde themselues to a rash vowe, haue no promise to be heard praying for continencie. Secondly, they that are driuen vnto any such necessitie as you speak of, which they are not a cause of themselues, neither can auoide, as in long and perpetual sicknes, it is certaine that God will giue the gift being sought by lawful meanes: But as for banishment and imprisonment, they are not of such necessitie, but that the husband is bound to follow the wife, and the wife her husband, Fulk. 1. Cor. 7.6.

Neither are many of those meanes commendable, which were vsed in Monkerie: for some of them were superstitious and vnlawfull, as they vsed Phi∣sick and medicine to correct or slake, and extinguish nature in them: Francis was wont to couer his bodie with yce and snow, others did whip themselues: This was not to subdue and tame the bodie, but to destroy and kill the bodie, and make it vnfit for other dueties. The scripture prescribeth no other meanes but prayer and fasting, and labour in our vocation. Some of them againe vsed externall exercise of their bodie, as by fasting, by lying harde, by watching, which in themselues were not amisse: but they leaue the chiefe and principall, which is the spirituall meanes: for the outward exrcise of the flesh without this, is little worth, Coloss. 2.23.

Bellarmin. To beleeue is no lesse the gift of God, then to liue chaste, yet we exhorte all men to beleeue, and they doe vowe and promise it in bap∣tisme: why may they not as well vowe continencie, although it be a peculi∣ar gift? cap. 31.

Ans. They are both indeed the giftes of God, but one is necessarie to sal∣uation, namely, to beleeue, and is promised to all that will seeke for it: But the other gift is not necessary, neither hath any such promise.

Secondly, Saint Paul calleth this a proper gift: But if all men were capa∣ble of it, how could it be called a proper gift? One after this manner, another after that, sayth the Apostle. But if euery man might attaine to that one gift of continencie, they should not all haue their proper gift, but all one gifte, and after the same manner. And though Saint Paul should meane, that to liue chastely in wedlock be also a proper gift of God, as Bellarmine vrgeth, and we denie not: yet it remaineth still, that the other is a more singular and proper Page  251 gift, and is not therefore commonly, and indifferently bestowed vpon all.

Thirdly, Saint Paul sayth, that a man may marrie his Virgin if neede so re∣quire, 1. Corinth. 7.37. But if euery one, labouring for the gift of continencie, might obtayne it, there should then be no necessitie of mariage: which the Apostle here affirmeth.

Lastly, the Rhemists say, that the marriage of those that haue vowed, is the worst sorte of incontinencie and fornication, 1. Corinth. 7. sect. 8.

Augustine saith cleane contrarie: Non ipsae nuptiae talium damnandae iudi∣cantur, sed damnatur propositi fraus, damnatur fracta votifides: postremò dam∣nantur tales, non quia coniugalem fidem posterius inierunt, sed quia continentiaa primam fidē irritam fecerunt: de bono viduitat. cap. 9. The mariages of such are not condemned, but the violating of their vow is condemned, not because they afterward entred into the league of mariage, but because they did break the first fayth of continencie: Augustine sayth not, that such mariages are no mariages, but plaine adultery & fornication: But maketh the mariage lawful, & reproueth their rashnes before in making, and their vnstedfastnes nowe in breaking their vowes.

THE FIFT QVESTION CONCERNING Monasticall persons, which do enter into that profession.

THere are foure sortes of people which the papists do offer great wrong vn∣to, in drawing them to the profession of monkery: First, vnto the yonger sort, which haue libertie to marrie. Secondly, to the children and sonnes, whom they make Monks without consent of their parents. Thirdly, they say, maried persons, by mutual consent, may betake themselues to a Monks habite. Fourthly, if ma∣riage be contracted, not consummate or finished, they may one leaue another without consent first had.

THE FIRST PART, WHETHER THE younger sorte are to bee admitted to professe Monkerie.
The Papists.

IF they be come to the yeares of discretion, they may, men or women at any [error 90] age, take vpon them the vow of Monkerie, Bellarm. cap. 35.

1 Math. 19.14. Suffer little children to come vnto me: Ergo, young men and mayds may become Monkes. Bellarm.

Answ. First, the text speaketh of little children: but by your confession, they must be of yeeres of discretion that should enter into your profession: so are not little children. 2. As though none could come to Christ, but through a Monks cowle: Nay, I would, they of all men, did not goe furthest off from Christ. It followeth also in the texte, Of such is the kingdome of heauen: Page  252 so by this reason, heauen gates should be open onely to Monkes and Friers: and this is the right heresie of the Pelagians, and Manichees, that promised the kingdome of God not one, but those that cast a way their riches.

2 Iohn Baptist liued from a childe in the wildernesse: Ergo, lawfull for young ones to professe Monkerie.

Answere: First, Iohns example is extraordinarie, as his office and calling was singular, & therefore is no more to be imitated and followed in his solitarie life, then in his diet of Locusts and wilde honie: He sprang also in his mothers womb: so, I think, all Monkes and Eremites doe not. Secondly, it is not cer∣taine at what yeeres Iohn entred into the Wildernesse: for hee was thirtie yeere olde when hee came and preached in the Wildernesse, as Matthew writeth, 3.1.

The Protestants.

THough we should grant, that a Monastical life were in some persons, and at some times tolerable among Christians, yet of all other the yonger sorte, in whom lust doth raigne, were most vnfit, and not to be admitted vnto that kinde of life.

1 Saint Paul would haue no widow to be chosen vnder 60. yeeres, 1. Ti∣moth. 5.9. and I will the younger to marry, vers. 16. Ergo, it is contrarie to Saint Pauls rule, to suffer any such to make vowes of continencie.

Rhemist. answere. First, it was but a rule for that time, when as yet there were no Monasteries nor discipline, but young widowes, wandred vp & down idly. Answ. First, the same cause that young women had to marrie then, they haue now, and therefore the rule is generall. Secondly, as though the wals of Monasteries were able to keepe in Virginitie: no, it is notoriously knowne, that vnchast life hath scaled the wals of Nunneries, crept in at windowes, and found muses in the ground.

2 Saint Paul, say they, counselleth young widowes to marrie, not young Virgins, which hauing not experience of lust, are not so greatly tempted. Ans. How chaste your cloyster women haue been, and free from these tentations, the stories of former times make mention: and the examples of so many vn∣chaste milch-Nunnes, and filthie Monkes and Friers, are a sufficient proofe, Fulk. 1. Timoth. 5. sect. 11. But all these shifts notwithstanding Saint Pauls rule must stand, that no widowes must be admitted vnder 60. yeere olde.

2 The Manichees tooke occasion hereby to insult against the Catholiks, because they admitted so many Virgins to the profession of single life: Certatim ad hanc professionem asincitatis suasionibuvestris, vt iam penè maior in Ecclesijs omnibus virginum apud vos, quam mulierum numerositas habeatur, August. cor. Faustum. 30.4. Ye labour (say the Manichees) to drawe women of euery hand to this profession by your perswasions, that now in your Churches, the number of professed virgins exceedeth the number of women. And hereby Page  253 the Manichees that extolled virginitie, and condemned mariage, were indu∣ced to think that the Catholike Bishops also were of their opinion.

Likewise Augustine, epistol. 169. maketh mention of one Priuius, that be∣cause while he liued among the Catholikes, he could not enioy the speech and companie of two young Nuns, he ran away with them to the Donatists. Thus we see what good commeth to shut young men and women into cloysters.

THE SECOND PART, WHETHER CHIL∣dren may enter into profession of Monkerie without their Parents consent.
The Papists.

IF they be of sufficient age, as the men of 14. yeere at the least, the women [error 91] of 12. and their Parents be not driuen to any such necessitie, that they neede their childrens helpe, they may without Parents consent enter into Monkery.

1 God sayd to Abraham, get thee out of thy countrey and from thy fa∣thers house: Genes. 12. and Christ Math. 10. whosoeuer loueth father or mo∣ther more then me, is not worthy of me. Ergo, children may become Monkes, without their fathers leaue, Bellarm. cap. 36.

Answ. First, who would haue thought that Abraham was a Monk, but that the Iesuite saith it? Secōdly, by the same reason a man may not leaue his pa∣rēts only, but go out of his countrey. Thirdly, Abraham was 75. yere old at that time, when he went out of Haran, verse 4. Ergo, wee will conclude that none ought to be made Monks before those yeares. Fourthly, When God calleth a∣ny man to a Monkish life, as Abraham had an especial calling of God, wee will giue him good leaue to goe.

Concerning the other saying of our Sauiour, it maketh nothing for you. First, Christ speaketh of persecution, when a man ought not for loue of his friends to denie Christ: but, I trowe you will not grant, that your Monkish life is persecution: and yet it is after a sorte▪ for the Locusts, which are none other but Monkes and Friers, Apocal. 9. doe bite and sting like serpents, that is, do secretly wound mens consciences. Secondly, a man may leaue his parents, as Christ commandeth, though he dwell in the same house with them: that is, by setting his loue and affection on heauenly things. Thirdly, doe all goe to Christ that come into your Monasteries? nay, I would they went not from Christ: for they liue after another rule, then Christs: Francis your great founder erected a new sect of Monkerie, and found out a new rule for them, which he called regu∣lam Euangelicam, the rule of the Gospell: as though Christes rule were not suf∣ficient▪

The Protestants.

CHildren ought not by the law of God to make any vow of single and con∣tinent Page  254 life without the consent and liking of their parents. Luther. Pet. Martyr, Lib. de caelibat. et votis.

1. By the law of Moyses the father had power to disallow the vowes which the daughter made being in his house, Numb. 30.6. Which law was not cere∣monious: for it was grounded vpon the Morall law, which commanded all obe∣dience and duetie of the children to the Parents: And that it is not abrogate, it appeareth, because the same law is renewed by S. Paul. 1. Corinth. 7. ver. 36.37. Where the Apostle referreth the whole matter of keeping a virgin, or pla∣cing of her in mariage to the will of the father, yet so, that he must haue regard vnto the necessitie, the estate and condition of his virgine. Both these places do apertly proue, that neither the childe can be bestowed in marriage, nor vowed to virginitie, without the consent and determination of the parents.

2. Let vs heare what authoritie Augustine yeeldeth to the father ouer his children: Agite vicem nostram in domibus vestris: Episcopus inde appellatus est quia superintendit: vnusquisque ergo in domosua, si caput est domui suae, debet ad eum pertinere episcopatus officiū. de Sanct. Ser. 51. You (saith Augustine their Bi∣shop) must supplye our stead in your houses: a Bishop or Superintendent, is so called because he ouerseeth: therefore euery housholder, being the head of his house, ought to playe the Bishop in his house. The father then is a Bishop ouer his children: shall any man then dare to take any out of his house, that is his Bi∣shoprike, or any sheepe out of his folde, without the Bishop and sheepheardes consent?

THE THIRD PART, WHETHER Married persons may with mutuall consent become votaries.
The Papists.

WIth mutuall consent the man & the wife may separate thē selues and vow [error 92] and promise single life for euer, so long as they both shall liue. Bellarm. Cap. 37.

Marie and Ioseph were perfitely man and wife, yet by mutuall consent they liued continently all their daies: Ergo, it is lawfull for married couples to separate themselues for euer, both agreeing therunto. Bellarm. cap. 37.

Answ. 1. It appeareth by the text, that there was no such thing purposed by Ioseph, before he was admonished by the Angell in a dreame, but that, as she was already betrothed: so there was an intent on Iosephs parte, that they should come together. Math. 1.18. But that in the meane time Marie was found with childe by the holy ghost: and so from that time Ioseph being a iust man neuer knew his wife: there was no such purpose or vowe before.

2. That this was an extraordinary exāple, who seeth it not? When any man Page  255 shall be admonished by an Angell as Ioseph was, and shall haue the like cause as Ioseph had to abstaine, which shall neuer bee, hee may be bould to doe as Io∣seph did.

The Protestants.

THey that are once ioyned together in marriage, and haue made a couenaunt each to other before God, can not separate them selues though they both consent, there being no other cause, but a purpose of single life for more holi∣nes sake.

1. It is flat contrary to S. Pauls rule.
1. Corinth. 7.5.

Defraud not your selues, except it be with cōsent for a time, that you may giue your selues to fast∣ing and prayer, and againe come together, lest Satan tempt you for your incon∣tinencie.
First the Apostle saith directly: they should but separate themselues for a time. Secondly, we doe thus reason out of his wordes: there is no cause of separation, but to be giuen to fasting and prayer: but this may be done by a se∣paration for a time: neither is it necessary we should alwaies be giuen to fasting and prayer, but vpon speciall occasion: therefore perpetuall separation is not needfull. 3. They that are long separated, are subiect to fall into tentation: the same cause therefore that moued them first to marrie, for auoiding of inconti∣nencie, ought to moue them to come together againe: Therefore it is not good nor lawful they should separat them selues for euer.

2. That which God hath coupled, no man ought to put asunder: but they that are married haue made a couenant to God. Pro. 2.17. as well as to themsel∣ues, and are ioyned by Gods law together: Ergo, they can not dissolue their ma∣riage by their owne power and will, the Lord hauing an interest therein.

Augustine Thus writeth, Non licet excepta causa fornicationis coniugem a coniuge dirimi, nec sterilem coniugem fas est relinquere, vt faecunda ducatur, de nupt. & concupiscen. Lib. 1. Cap. 10. It is not lawfull for married couples, one to be separat frō another, vnlesse it be for fornication: nor to leaue a barren wyfe to marrie a frutefull. Therefore if fornication onely be a iust cause of finall se∣paration, there can be no other: If there were any other, it is most like it should be for procreation of children: But neither for that cause is a man to leaue his wife, Ergo for no other. Therefore, not for any vow of continencie is marriage to be dissolued, or any separation to be admitted. Bellarm. saith, that by their se∣paration, Marriage is not dissolued. Auns. It is asmuch dissolued, as by your law in cases of diuorse. 1. For these are your words: for aduoutrie one may dismisse another, but neither party can marry againe, for any cause during life. Rhemist. Math. 19. Sect. 4. So ye allowe onely a kinde of dismission in the case of adul∣tery, and so you do in the vowing of continencie: And thus you make this cause as forceable as the other, to break off the Matrimonial duety, which is contrary to the gospell.

Page  256
THE FOVRTH PART, WHETHER MARI∣age contracted not consummate, may without consent be broken for the vow of continencie.
The Papists.

[error 93] THeir opinion is, that if the mariage be contracted onely and ratified, but not yet consummate, by the parties comming together, it is lawful for either of them without the others consent to vowe chastitie, cap. 38. Bellarm.

His reason is, because it is lawfull for a man to passe from a lesse perfect state of life to a more perfect, if it may be done without detriment, as this may be: for yet they haue no children, and the partie may as well bee maried to another. Bellarm.

Answ. First, a single life is not alwayes the perfecter state, nor to all, as it is not to them that haue not the gift to containe, as it is most like hee hath not, that is contracted, and hath made promise of mariage: for then all this needed not. Secondly, though there be none of those impediments named, yet there is a greater: namely, their fayth & promise made each to other before God, which they ought not to violate. Thirdly, Saint Paul saith, If thou be bound to a wife, seeke not to be loosed, 1. Corinth. 7.27. But they that are espoused one to the other, are bound, vnlesse you will say, that the couenant made by them vnto God Prouer. 2.17. bindeth not.

The Protestants.

MAtrimonie whether ratified onely by lawfull contract or espousals, or con∣summate, ought not any way to be broken with consent or without, for Monasticall profession.

1 Our reason is, because it is perfect mariage already in substance and be∣fore God, which is ratified by contract onely and solemne vowe and couenant made each to other: And being thus betrothed, the one giueth power of their body to the other, and now they are no more free. That this mariage is per∣fect before God, and in substance, it appeareth by the law of Moses, by the which a man defiling a mayd betrothed, was to suffer death, as well, as if hee had committed vncleannes with a woman already maried. Deuteron. 22. verse 22.23. And Math. 1.18. Marie that was but betrothed to Ioseph, is by the Angel called his wife, vers. 20.

2 August. saith, Coninges fidem sibi pariter debent: Cui fidei tantum iuristri∣buit Apostolus, vt eam potestatem appellaret dicens, Mulier non habet potestatē sui corporis sed vir, &c. Maried couples doe owe fayth & troth one to the other: which mutual troth the Apos. maketh such accoūt of, that he giueth it ye name of Page  257 power: saying, The woman hath not power of her owne bodie, but the man, and likewise the man, &c. Augustine sayth, that by the very plighting of their troth each to other, they receiue mutuall power and interest one of an∣others bodie. But this troth was plighted before the consummation of their mariage, Ergo, they had one interest in another then, and can do nothing one without the consent of the other: de bon. coniugal. cap. 3.

THE SIXT QVESTION CONCERNING the rules and discipline of Monasticall life.

THis question hath foure partes. First, of the solitarie and seuere kind of life in Monkes and Eremites. Secondly, of their canonicall houres appoynted for prayer. Thirdly, of their habite and apparell. Fourthly, of their maintenance, whether it ought to come by their labour.

THE FIRST PART CONCERNING THE solitarie and austere life of Monkes.
The Papists.

TO liue in solitarie places, to weare sack-cloth, to be giuen continually to [error 94] fasting, to lie hard, to fare meanely, and by other such wayes to punish and afflict the bodie, they say, are notable meanes to bring the soule to the contem∣plation of heauenly things.

1 John Baptist liued in the desart, fared coursely, and was barely appa∣relled, he ate Locusts and wilde honie, and ware a garment of Camels haire: he was a right paterne of true Eremites, Bellarm. cap. 39. lib. 2. de Monach.

Answer. First, Johns life was not so austere, as they make it: for the place where he liued was not so solitarie, but that there were villages and houses not far off, as it may appeare by the peoples resort vnto him: his apparel was of Camels hayre, and was somewhat course, yet no such thing as sack-cloth,* or haire-cloth, for of the finest of the Camels haire Chamblets and Grograines are made that are had in price amongst vs: his diet also in eating Locusts & wilde honie was vsual in that coūtrey. Secondly, we denie not but Iohn liued an austere life, because he was a preacher of repentance, & had a singular office to prepare men for the cōming of Christ: Therfore his calling being extraordinary, he can∣not be an author of an ordinary calling among Christians. Thirdly, seeing Christ came eating and drinking, liued amongst men, and was apparelled as o∣thers were, why should Christians rather choose to imitate the Baptist, who had no office or ministerie in the Gospel, Math. 11.11. then our Sauiour Christ, whose life and doctrine is for our imitation?

Page  258
The Protestants.

THat the solitarie life of Eremites, in flying the comfortable societie of men, and their rigorous manner in the vnnatural chastising of their bodies, is con∣trarie to the rule of the Gospell, thus we shew it.

1 Heb. 10.24.25. Let vs consider one another, and prouoke one another to good workes, not forsaking the assemblies of our selues together, as the ma∣ner of some is, but exhorting one another: here the Apostle speaketh manifestly against those that shunne the societie and companie of their brethren, because they must needes fayle in the dueties of charitie, as in exhorting one another, and prouoking to good works: these dueties Eremites can not performe, there∣fore their life is vnlawfull: and Math. 24, it is a note of false prophets and false Christs to liue in the desarts. Againe, they that loue solitarie places, doe offer themselues to tentation, and fall into the snares of the diuel: God saw it was not good for Adam, no not in Paradise, to liue alone: but I think their desarts are farre vnlike to Paradise: Christ to be tempted of the diuell was lead into the Wildernes: Therfore such places are fit for Sathans working. The preacher sayth, Two are better then one, for if one ouercome him, two shal stand against him, Eccles. 4.12. We are better able being ayded by our brethren to resist Sa∣than then being alone: We ought not then to tempt God, and not knowing our own strength, to goe forth into solitarie places, and as it were prouoke Sa∣than to the Combat.

2 That cruel and inhumane kind of chastising their bodies by fasting & o∣ther discipline vtterly is vnlawful. The Monks called Grandimōtenses, did weare shirts of maile next their bodies, the Charter Monkes, haire-cloth: the Monks Flagellants went bare-foote in linnen shirts, leauing an open place in the backe where they did daylie whip themselues before the people, till the blood follo∣wed. Moses a certaine Abbot did so afflict his bodie with fasting and watching, that for 2. or 3. daies together many times he had no appetite at all to his meat, neither could sleepe. An other Eremite (as Cassianus writeth) did purpose with himselfe not to eate meate, vnlesse he had some guest or stranger with him, and so was constrayned to abstaine somtime fiue dayes together: two other Mona∣sticall brethren, trauayling in the desart of Thebaide, did vow not to take any sustenance, but such as God should send them: and as they went, a certaine wilde people,* contrarie to their custome, offered them meat, the one tooke it as sent of God, the other refused it, because he thought it to be sent rather of man then of God, and so died.

Basilius magnus, and Gregor. Nazianzene, did so pluck downe themselues by immoderate fasting, that when they were called to bee Bishops they were not able to sustaine the labour thereof.

Where in all the scriptures learned these men, thus to punish their bodies? this is not with Saint Paul to subdue and bring vnder the flesh: but to kill and destroy it: contrary to that saying of Saint Paul▪ No man euer yet hated his own flesh,* but loueth & cherisheth it: see I pray you, how these men loued and che∣rished their bodies?

Page  259Let vs heare what Aug. sayth, Tudeseris res humanas, & segregas te, vt nemo te videat: Cui proderis? tu ad hoc peruenisses, si nemo tibi profuisset?*An quia veloces pedes tibi videris habuisse ad transeundum, praecisurus es pontem? Thou leauest the care of humane things, and separatest thy selfe that no man should see thee: to whom doest thou good in so doe doing? Hadst thou come to this perfection thy selfe if no man had done thee good? because thou hast quickly passed ouer, wilt thou cut off the bridge, that no man else should passe? See then Augustine maketh the heremiticall life altogether vnprofitable to men.

THE SECOND PART CONCERNING the habite and shauing of Monkes.
The Papists.

BOth these superstitious customes, for Monks to be knowne by their coules & [error 95] shauen crowns, they receiue and allow as cōmendable and fit for them to be knowen by. Beside some shew of antiquitie, scripture they haue none: but their best reason is this: that as Senators & souldiers, Noble mē & rustikes are knowē by their apparel, so it is meet that Monks should bee discerned from others by their habite, Bellarm. cap. 40. Our Rhem. vse the same reason for shauen crowns, that it is a note of distinction between the Clergie and lay-men, annot. 1. Pet. 5. sect. 2. And for priestlike garnents, they alleadge out of Apocal. 1. vers. 13. how Christ appeared to Iohn vested in a priestlike garment.

Ans. 1. We deny not, but that it is conuenient for Ministers to be discerned from others euen in their apparel: which may be done by the grauity & mode∣stie therof in colour, in plainnes, not necessary to bring in strange and ridiculous fashions of attire, such as Monks coules are: yet Ministers are better discerned by other things, then their apparel, as they are described by S. Paul, 1. Tim. 3. But as for any such distinction of monks we allow not: for the very calling it selfe ought to be abolished. As for shauen crownes and beards, they are but tokens of Baals priests, make the best of them you can.

2 Christ appeared in a long garment down to the feete: which they translate a priestlike garment, as though Christ were then going to Masse: The word is, podéres, which signifieth a long vesture, downe to the feete, which was one of the high priests garments, and hereby is signified the priesthood of Christ: but what is this to the attire of Monks or priests? We denie not but long garments for their comlines are fit for Ministers, according to the fashiō of the countrie, but not as necessarie, representing more holinesse: for in the East countreyes, short garments were graue and comely enough: as the prophets had their mantles: and S. Paul maketh mention of his cloke. 2. Tim. 4.13.

The Protestants.

WE condemne both the habite and shauing of the Monkes as superstitious, euen as their whole life and profession is.

Page  2601 There is no one precept in the new testament concerning formes and fashions of apparell to be vsed by Clergie men, but onely in generall termes, that they should be modest and sober, and graue in their behauiour, 1. Tim. 3. The Leuites and priests indeede in the law, had rules and precepts set them both for their vestures in the temple, and their ordinary apparell, Numb. 15.39. that it should be made with fringes in remembrance of the commandements. But who seeth not that such significations of apparel were Leuitical, and meer∣ly ceremonious? such is the habite of Monkes: for their coules, sayth the Iesu∣ite, signifie their innocencie, like vnto children that are couered with vailes like vnto coules. But to place any religion or holines in apparell, as they did, (for it was thought a great priuiledge to be buried in a Monks coule) is abomi∣nable superstition: for such Monkish superstition our Sauiour rebuked the Pha∣risies, Math. 23.5. All their works they do, to be seene of men: for they make their Phylacteries broad, and make long the fringes of their garments. If the Pharisies did abuse to vain-glorie and superstition, that kinde of apparell which the law commaunded: there can be no good vse of Monkish habites, which the Gospel neither commendeth nor commandeth.

As for shauen crownes: they were directly forbiddē by the law of Moses, not only to round the tufts of their beard, as the Gentiles did, Leu. 19.27. but not to shaue their beard, or make bald their head, Leuit. 21.5. And then it was a signe of holines not to cut the haire, as in the Nazarites it appeareth, Num. 6. It was then the custom of the heathen and of their Idolatrous priestes to shaue themselues: How then dare the papists make that a signe of holines now, which was a signe of prophanenes, and heathennes then? And is their religion so beggarly, that they must needs borrow their ceremonies of the heathen?

2 The great variety of their habits, & foolish significations of their shauings, doe shew what beginning they had. The Monks of Basiles order went in white, of Benets rule in black, the Cistercians had white rotchets vpon a black coate: the Grandimōtenses a coate of mailes,* with a black cloke vpon. Some starred Monks: some Iesuites, with a white girdle, & a russet coule: some Celestines all in blew, both cloke, coule and cap. The Franciscanes did weare ropes for girdles & treen shooes.

They render also diuers reasons of their shauen crownes: some say, it resem∣bleth Christs crowne of thornes: some by shauing the haire, do signifie the mor∣tifiyng of the affections, as cutting of things that are superfluous: some by ba∣ring of the head, the simplicitie and plainnes of life. Bellarm. saith, it is a signe of repentance and conuersion. Is not here good stuffe, thinke you? Such rites, such ceremonies, such significations, such humane traditions, I think the Phari∣sies would haue abhorred. For these are worse then their washing of tables, bra∣sen vessels, pots, cups, and such like: And yet our Sauiour saith of them, that they did lay the commandement of God apart, to establish their owne traditions, Mark. 7.8.

Lastly, let August. speak: Cōcerning the habite of ecclesiastical persons, thus Page  261 he writeth: Aequè laicis patet coeli palatium dei mandata seruantibus quàm san∣ctimoniali▪ habitu praeditis sacerdotibus. De salutar. docum. cap. 8. The heauenly palace is as well open for Lay men, keeping the commandements of God, as for Priests in their holy attire. What profiteth it then, I pray you, to be buried in a Monkes coule? Againe, Augustine found fault with certaine dissolute Monkes in that time, that suffered their haire to growe long: Against whom he vrgeth the saying of S. Paul, 1. Corinth. 11.14. Doth not nature it selfe teach you, that it is a shame for a man to haue long haire? And so he concludeth: Hoc quò perti∣net, quaeso, tam apertè contra Apostoli praecepta comari? What meaning haue you in this, to suffer your haire to growe, contrary to the precept of the Apostle? But this precept did no more belong to Monkes, then all other Christians. Concer∣ning the shauing of Monkes, Augustine hath not one word at all, but of polling, and clipping the haire: he speaketh onely against certaine crinitos fratres, that nourished their haire and suffered it to grow of length.

Nay, our Rhemists loue shauing so well, that they defend the shauing of Nunnes, and would proue it out of Hierome, who indeede speaketh of the cut∣ting of their haire, not for any religion, but to auoyd certaine little beasts that bred betweene the skinne and the haire, (you knowe what beasts they are) be∣cause they vsed not the bathes, nor oyle, as other women did, Fulk. 2. Thessal. 3. sect. 2. But whatsoeuer Hierome saith, it is flat contrarie to Saint Paules rule, who saith, It is a shame for a woman to be shorne or shauen, 1. Cor. 14.6.

The Papists.

THe 3.6.9. houres, they say, are consecrated and deuoted to praier, which they call their Canonical houres: at the 3. houre the holy Ghost descended: at [error 96] the 6. houre Peter went vp to the top of the house: and at the 9. houre Peter and Iohn went vp to pray in the temple, Act. 3.1. And Daniel vsed to pray thrice in the day, Dan. 6.10. Ergo, those times ought to be consecrate to prayer, Rhemist. Act. 10. sect. 6.

Ans. First, we denye that it can be gathered by any of those places, that these houres onely ought to be set apart for prayer. Peter and Iohn went vp at the 9. houre, which was the time of the euening sacrifice, when the religious Iewes went vp to pray. Secondly, Daniel praied three times a day, but at what houres the text speaketh not: yet by this example, and by the other proofes alleadged, we doe gather, that at the 3.6.9. houre, that is not precisely at any of these times, but in the morning, when men rise vp to their labours, at noone before their re∣past, and at night when they goe to rest, it is meete and conuenient that men should make their praiers vnto God, and at other times also when they finde themselues fit. Thirdly, the popish seruice hath nothing but the names of these Page  262 houres: for they are all finished in the forenoone, they haue their Nocturnes at midnight, their Prime early in the morning, whereas the sixt houre is at high noone, the ninth houre is the third houre before the Sunnes set, Fulk. ibid.

The Protestants.

WE denye not but that set times of publike prayer are commendable, as we haue our forenoone, and afternoone seruice: But at vnseasonable houres, as at midnight, or the rising of the Sunne, to call the people together, when they cannot cōueniently be assembled, is but a superstitious custome. Again, it is pro∣fitable for men in the morning, noone, euening, though not precisely at any set houres, to direct their prayers vnto God: but so to stint mens prayers, as that they ought of necessitie to keepe their houres, as though their prayers were then more auaileable, it hath no ground out of scripture.

1 S. Paul saith, Pray continually, 1. Thessal. 5.17. Ergo, it is lawfull to pray at all times, and one time as fit for prayer as another, if a man be prepared. A∣gayne, the same Apostle saith: I will that the men euery where lift vp pure hands without wrath and doubting, 1. Timoth. 2.8. Out of these words we ga∣ther two arguments: First, prayers are no more bound to times, then to places: a man may pray euery where, Ergo, at euery time. Secondly, a man ought not to pray but when he is voyd of wrath, and is otherwise prepared: but it may be that at the stinted houres, of the 3.6.9. a man may bee in wrath, and otherwise not fit, therefore he is not necessarily to be tyed to those houres.

2 Augustine thus writeth: Cum quisque orationem quaerit, collocat membra si∣cut ei occurrerit. Cum autem non quaeritur, sed infertur appetitus orandi: hoc est, cum repente aliquid venit in mentem, quocum{que} modo inuenerit hominem, non est vtique differenda oratio. Lib. 2. ad Simplician. quaest. 4. When any man desireth to pray, let him dispose his bodie as he thinketh best: But when as it commeth not of his desire and seeking, but suddenly his affection is stirred vp to pray, howsoeuer prayer findeth him (that is, whether standing or sitting) he must not in any case deferre it and put it off to another time. This then is Augustines minde, that a man should pray so oft as he hath a disposition thereunto, and not deferre his prayer, as they doe, which bind themselues to Canonicall houres.

THE FOVRTH PART, CONCERNING THE maintenance of Monkes.
The Papists.

[error 97] THey neither denie that it is vnlawfull for Monkes to labour with their hands, where necessitie, bodily strength, the order of the Church doth require thē, neither doe they confesse, that it is necessary for them to worke: And so are not ashamed to maintaine their idle, slothfull, and Epicures life, Bellarm. cap. 41.42. Rhemists, Thessal. 2.3. sect. 2. But they may either liue of the lands giuen to their houses, or els by their religious begging, cap. 44.

Page  2631 Monkes are not now bound to worke, hauing wherewithall to liue beside of lands giuen vnto them, because most of them are Priests, and doe serue at the Altar, Rhemist. ibid.

Ans. First, we grant that Ministers of the Gospell labouring in the word and Sacraments, ought to be maintained by the Gospell: But such are fewe or none of your Monkes, who being fit for no other seruice either in the Church or com∣monwealth, are thrust into Monasteries by their friends: they are idolatrous Priests, and serue little better then at Baals altar. If any of them be fit for the Mi∣nisterie, as we denye not but some haue come out of your Cloysters, as Luther, Bucer, P. Martyr, by whom the Church of God hath receiued much good: but they must come first out of your Dennes, and relinquish their Monkish life, and labour amongst the people: so shal they be no more regular, but secular priests, as you terme them. Secondly, the lands which were bestowed vpon them, were first giuen vpon an euill intent, that by their prayers they should redeeme the soules of their founders, who most of them had cōmitted some notable sinne, & so pro remedio animarū, to helpe their soules, they built Monasteries: So King E∣thelstane for killing his brother Edwin, built two Monasteries, Middleton and Michelney for his soule, Fox. pag. 152. King Offa for killing Ethelbert a good Prince, who came peaceably for the despousage of Atheldred his daughter, be∣ing pricked in conscience, gaue the first Peter pence to Rome, pag. 114. Those lands therefore being giuen first for vngodly purposes, and continued by them for idolatrous vses, ought cleane to bee taken from them, and to be bestowed vpon better vses, neither is it lawfull for them in that sort to enioy them.

2 They proue the impudent begging of Friers, which they call religious begging, to be lawfull and commendable, by the example of Christ, who had not a place where to put his head, Luk. 9. and of his Apostles, that were charged not to possesse gold or siluer in their purses, Math. 10. Bellarm. cap. 45.

Ans. First, I pray you where euer did you reade that Christ went a begging? he liued not of almes, but gaue almes, and Iudas was the almesman, though he playd his part but euill. Augustine flatly denyeth that you auouch: He saith that Christs bagge was as Fiscus regis, euen as the Kings Exchequer: and that what was giuen him, was as due as tribute money to the Prince: But the King, I trow, is not a begger. Nisi putetis, (sayth he) quia dominus petebat & indigebat, cui seruiebant angeli, qui de quinque panibus tot millia pauit. Vnlesse you thinke (sayth he) that Christ begged, and wanted, whom the Angels serued, and who fed with fiue loaues not a fewe thousands, in Psal. 146. Secondly, if the Apostles were beggers, then they liued of almes, but that is vntrue: for Christ saith, The labourer is worthie of his hire: but the labourers wages is earned and deserued, it is no almes.

The Protestants.

FIrst we say, that no idle persons ought to be maintained in a Christian com∣monwealth, but they that haue not any other necessary calling, should labour Page  264 with their hands, and therefore Monkes that are fit for no other seruice in the Church, ought to labour and worke.

1 Saint Paul giueth a general rule: He that will not worke, let him not eate, 2. Thessal. 3.10. speaking of those that haue no necessarie calling in the Church: Ergo, Monkes must worke, or els by S. Paules rule, not eate. The Rhemists an∣swere, that this is but a naturall admonition or counsel. Nay, it is a precept and commandement, that all in their seuerall places and callings should labour, none liue idlely: for S. Paul saith not, this I counselled you, but this I warned you of, or denounced vnto you, and he calleth those that followed not this rule, inordinate walkers.

2 Againe, if you will needes haue Monks, let them be as they were in times past: for then they were lay men and laboured with their hands, till anno. 606. when Boniface made a decree that Monkes might vse the office of preaching and Christening: but before that, Monks were forbidden by the generall Coun∣cel of Chalcedon, not to entermeddle with matters Ecclesiasticall, Fox. pag. 154. But perhaps they will say, as they doe, that some of them work, as their Nunnes: And I pray you, why not their Monkes too? I thinke their great bellies hinder them. Neither are their Monkes altogether idle; for some of them in painting, caruing, grauing, and garnishing their Idols, are very cunning. But, according to the saying, they might better be idle then ill occupied, and as good neuer a whit, as neuer the better.

3. Neither is it to be permitted, that Friers should get their liuing by begging: for what are they els but valiant beggers? First, there ought to be no beggers in the common-wealth: as Deuteron. 15. Though the Lord say, that they should neuer be without poore or beggers, which should want their helpe, vers. 11. Yet vers. 5. this charge is giuen, that by them, that is, their default, there should not be a begger in Israel: they should so prouide for the poore, that they neede not go a begging. There are also positiue lawes, to restraine the number of beggers, and therefore there is no reason, that by a number of idle vagrant persons, bel∣li-god Friers, that begging order should be enlarged. Secondly, but seeing it can not bee chosen, but there must needes be