celestiall Ierusalem, &c. Ergo the church is inuisible, and here opposed to the visible hill of Sinay.
Bellarmine answereth, that this is vnderstood of the triumphant church in heauen, not of the militant vpon earth.
To this we make answere, the Apostle vnderstandeth the whole vniuer∣sall church in heauen and earth, which both make but one familie, Ephe. 3.15. for here he nameth not onely the spirites of iust men which are in heauen, but the faithfull vpon earth, whose names are written in heauen: the congregatiō (saith he) of the first borne: the wordes are 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 and 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, a gathering together, collection or cōgregation, which must needes be vnderstood of men vpon earth. Againe (saith he) ye are come, not ye shall come: they had now left the smoking mountaine Sinay, and were come to Sion, the church vnder the Gospell. Wherefore this is a most firme and inuincible argument: the catho∣like church is the vniuersall number of Gods chosen in heauen and in earth, Ergo inuisible.
2 We will giue an instance: In the dayes of Elias the church was not vi∣sible, for he camplaineth, and saith that he was onely left alone, 1. King. 19.10. Ergo the church is not alway visible.
The Rhemistes answere. First, at that time the church was visible in Iudaea, the souldiers were numbred to 1000. thousand, 2. Chron. 17. We aunswere againe. First, belike they haue taken a more exact account of them then the Lord him selfe: for he (saith he) had reserued 7000, 1. King. 19.18. that had not bowed their knees to Baall, they say there were ten hūdred thousand. Againe Elias, if he had knowen such a number, could not haue bene left so comfort∣lesse, as in grief of hart to desire to dye. But be it graunted that the church was visible in Iudaea at this time, though it were not so to Elias: yet where was that visible church in the dayes of Achaz, and Manasseh, when Iudaea fell also to I∣dolatrie? Thirdly, to beleeue that there is an holy catholike church is an article of our faith, Ergo it is inuisible.
Bellarmin answereth. First, the holinesse of the church is inuisible. We reply, so the church is partly visible, partly inuisible by his confession. First, why thē do ye define the catholike church to be a visible cōgregatiō, if it be not wholly & altogether visible? they know that difinitio must cōuenire definito, the definitiō must agree wholly to that which is defined: but now it is not: for they say, the catholike holy church is partly visible as it is a church, partly inuisible as it is holy. Secondly, do we not say in the Creede, Credo Catholicam, as well as Cre∣do Sanctam, I beleeue a catholike church, as well as I beleeue the holy church? then it is also inuisible, as it is catholike, because this also is part of the article: see I pray you what shifting is here?
Secondly, he answereth, that some thing is seene in the church, some thing beleeued: for we see that visible companie of men, which make the church, but whether that companie be the true church, we do not see it, but beleeue it.
We reply againe. First, the Iesuite hath not yet proued that some thing is