The defense of the aunsvvere to the Admonition against the replie of T.C. By Iohn VVhitgift Doctor of Diuinitie. In the beginning are added these. 4. tables. 1 Of dangerous doctrines in the replie. 2 Of falsifications and vntruthes. 3 Of matters handled at large. 4 A table generall.

Io. Whitgifte.

Yes in good sooth is it: for M. Harding agaynst the Apologie, confesseth that the Ciuill Magistrate may punishe with corporall punishment any estate or degrée of persons, offending eyther agaynst the first or second table. And Saunders sayeth lib. 2. That Bishops in that they be men, be subiect to ciuill Magistrates: and therefore in that

poynt the Papistes graunt as much as you.

Concerning the determination of matters in religion, I know not wherein you differ from them: for though the Prince mislike your determination, yet can he not him selfe conclude any thing, onely he may compell you to go to it agayne and take better holde: but if it shall please you to go forewarde in your determination, or if you cannot agrée among your selues, I see not what authoritie you haue giuen to the Ciuill Magistrate, to determine the matter: but for ought that I can espie, if you and your Seniors be disposed to be peeuishe, eyther muste the Prince haue no Religion, or els that which you shall appoynt vnto him: for potestatem facti, you giue him, that is, you make him your executioner, but potestatem iuris, you do as fully re∣moue from him, as the papists do: for he hath not (as you say) any authoritie to make orders or lawes in Ecclesiasticall matters.

Saunders sayeth, and so say all the Papistes, that he hath authoritatem promo∣uendi religionem: authoritie to promote religion, but not constituendi, to appoynte: and therefore vndoubtedly I perceyue not wherein you differ in this Article from the Papistes. In the chiefe poynt I am sure that you agree fully and flatly with them: and vse their argumentes and none other: that is in this, that you take from the ei∣uill Magistrate omnem potestatem iuris, in matters and causes Ecclesiasticall.

And what Scripture haue you to proue that the ciuill Magistrates authoritie is not as ample and as large in matters of religion, when there is a lawfull ministe∣rie, as when there is an vnlawfull ministerie? In deede when he hath the one he may the more safely vse their aduise, and followe theyr counsell, which he neyther may nor ought to do when he hath the other, but his authoritie is all one ouer them bothe: and surely I marueyle that you will vtter suche straunge assertions, so peremptori∣ly without any kinde of proofe. For you that woulde haue all thinges proued by the Scriptures, haue not in this wayghtie cause vsed one texte of Scripture, but onely one borrowed of the Papistes, and making directly agaynst you.

When I say, that the Churche hath authoritie to appoynt Cere∣monies, I speake generally of all states of the Churche, as well vnder persecu∣tion as vnder a Christian Magistrate, not secluding, but including, the Christian Magistrate as the chiefe and principall gouernour of the Churche committed to him nexte vnder God: for I do not speake of a Christian Magistrate, as you and the Pa∣pistes woulde haue me, to witte, as of Iulius Cesar, Alexander, or Nero: but I speake of him as one appoynted by God to gouerne, not only in the common wealth, but in the Churche also. Yea I will go further with you, I make no difference be∣twixte a Christian common wealth and the Churche of Christe: wonder you as muche at it as you will: I haue shewed my reasons before, and you haue not as yet vsed any to the contrarie, wherefore if you thinke no otherwise of this cause than I haue in these woordes taught you, the ciuill Magistrate shall be much more beholden vnto you, than he is.

Certaynely I knowe not of any of the late wryters (one or two excepted) that are of your iudgement in this cause, and were it not that the same is learnedly and fully handled almoste of all the late wryters, and namely of suche as haue in our tongue notably and learnedly defended this truth of the Princes authoritie in Ec∣clesiasticall matters agaynst the English Louanistes, who haue especially sought to impeach the same, I woulde in more ample manner haue prosecuted this cause. But for as much as their bookes are in euery mans handes, it shall be sufficient to referre the Reader to my Lorde of Sarisburie his defense of the Apologie agaynst Maister Harding, my L. of Winchesters answere to Master Fecknam, & Master Nowels bookes agaynst Dorman, in all which this matter is very learnedly and painefully handled.

Notes

• The papistes confese that the prince may punish priest, 5, Harding.
• Saunders li, 2.
• The Replier giueth to the Prince no more than potestatem fa∣cti.
• Saunders.
• The Replier vttreth strāge doctrine with out proofe: & yet woulde haue all pro∣ued by scrip∣ture.
• No suche dif∣ference be∣tweene a chri∣stian common wealth & the Church as is pretended.