The defense of the aunsvvere to the Admonition against the replie of T.C. By Iohn VVhitgift Doctor of Diuinitie. In the beginning are added these. 4. tables. 1 Of dangerous doctrines in the replie. 2 Of falsifications and vntruthes. 3 Of matters handled at large. 4 A table generall.

T. C. Pag. 140. in the midst.

But I will yet come nearer. That without the which the principall offices of charitie cannot be exercised, is necessarie and alwayes to be kept in the Churche: but the office of Auncients & El∣ders are such as without which the principall offices of charitie can not be exercised, therfore it follo∣weth that this office is necessarie. That the principal offices of charitie cannot be exercised without this order of Auncients, it may appeare, for that he which hath faulted, and amēdeth not after he be admonished once pri〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ately, and then before one witnesse or two, cānot further be proceeded against,* 1.1 according to the commaundement of our sauiour Christ, onlesse there be in the Church Auncients 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉d Elders, therfore this principal office of charitie which tendeth to the amendment of him which hath not pr̄ofited by those two former admonitions, can not be exercised without them. For it is commaunded of our sauiour Christ, that in such a case when a brother doth not proffite by these two warnings, it should be tolde the Church. Now I would aske who be ment by the Church heere, if he say by the Church, are ment al y^e people, then I will aske how a man can conueniently complayn〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 to all the whole congregation, or how can the whole congregation conueniently meete to decide of this matter. I do not denie but the people haue an interest in the excommunication, as shal be noted hereafter, bu〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 the matter is not so farre come, for he must first refuse to obey the admonition of the Church, or euer they can proceede so farre. Wel, if it be not the people that be ment by the Church. who is it? I heare M. Doctor say it is the Pastor, but if he will say so, & speake so straungely, he must warrant it with some other places of scripture, where the Church is takē for one, which is as much to say as one man is many, one member is a body, one alone is a companie. And besides this strangenesse of speech, it is cleane contrary to the meaning of our sauiour Christ, and destroyeth the soueraintie of the medicine which our sauiour Christ prepared for such a festred sore, as would ney∣ther be healed with priu〈1 line〉〈1 line〉te admonition, neyther w^t admonition before one or two witnesses. For as y^e fault groweth, so our sauior Christ would haue the nūber of those, before whō he shuld be checked & rebuked likewise grow. Therfore from a priuate admonition he riseth vnto the admonitian be∣fore two or three, & from thē to the church, which if we should say it is but one, then to a dangerou∣ser wound should be layd an easier plaster, & therfore our sauiour doth not rise from two to one (for that were not to rise, but to fall, nor to proceede, but to go backwarde) but to many. Seeing then that the church here is neyther the whole congregation, nor the pastor alone, it followeth that by the churche here he meaneth the pastor, with the Auncients or Elders. Or else whom can he meane? And as for this maner of speech wherin by the church is vnderstanded the chiefe gouernours and Elders of the church, it is oftentimes vsed in the olde Testament, from the which our sauiour bor∣rowed this maner of speaking, as in Exodus it is sayd, that Moses wrought his miracles before y^e* 1.2 people, when mention is made before, onely of the Elders of the people, whome Moses had called togither. And most manifestly in Iosue, where it is sayd that he that killed a man at vnwates, shall* 1.3 returne vnto the citie vntill he stand before the congregation to be iudged. Where by the congrega∣tion, he meaneth the gouernours of the congregation, for it did not appertayne to all to iudge of this case. Likewise in the Cronicles, and diuers other places. 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉nd therefore I conclude, that for so* 1.4 muche as those be necessarie and perpetuall which are spoken of in those words (tell the Churche) and that vnder those words are comprehended the Elders or Auncients, that the Elders & aun∣cients be necessarie and perpetuall officers in the churche.

Io. Whitgifte.

Héere are many words without matter, & a great thing pretended to no purpose: for the principal offices of charitie, both hath bin & may be wel exercised without your Se∣niors:* 1.5 the place Mat. 18. doth in no respect proue the contrarie. For it only teacheth an order howe to procéede charitably in priuate offences, & not in publike, as I haue she∣wed before. Moreouer to tel the Church, is eyther publikly to reproue those that haue bin priuately in that maner admonished, & wil not repent, or else to complayne vnto such as haue authoritie in the Churche, according to that which I sayde before of this place, in my Answere to y^e Admonition. And héerein you ioyne with me, in that you take the Church there, for the chief gouernours of the Church, though we differ in y^e persōs.* 1.6 For you will haue it onely ment of the Pastor & Seniors, and I thinke it signifieth more generally any, which are lawfully appoynted to gouerne the church. But whe∣ther it be one or more that hath this authoritie committed vnto him, it is more to tell him than it is to tell twentie besides: because he béeing in authoritie, doth beare the office of a publike Magistrate, who hath power publikely to correct that whiche was priuately cōmitted: and therfore he that telleth one suche, may wel be sayd to tell the Church, bicause he telleth such a one as hath authoritie in the Church, and is a pub∣like person. So that he riseth from priuate admonition to open complaint: from pri∣uate witnesses, to a publike Magistrate: and therfore this is to rise, not to fal, to procede, not to goe backwarde.

But admit that mo than one is vnderstanded by the name of the Church (whiche I also confesse) yet doth it not followe, that it shoulde be your Seigniorie, whych you would haue in euery congregation to consiste of the Pastor, and some other of his parishe, but rather suche as Chrysostome calleth Prelates and Presidents, which are Bi∣shops* 1.7 & such other chiefe gouernours. But be it that this place admitted y^e same sense, that you would haue it to do, yet do I answer you as M. Musculus answered y^e Papists obiecting these words in effect to the same ende that you do, that is, to spoyle the Chri∣stian Magistrate of his authoritie in ecclesiasticall matters. Obijciunt illud Christi, dic* 1.8 ecclesiae: Et, si ecclesiam non audierit, sit tibi velut Ethnicus & Publicanus. Respondeo, Ecclesiae dei tum Magistratu pio ac fideli d〈1 line〉〈1 line〉stituebantur. &c. They obiect (sayth he) that place of Christ, Dic ecclesiae: tell the Churche: and if he heare not the Church, let him be to thee as an hea∣then and publicane. I answere, The Churches of God were then destitut〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 of a godly and faythful Magistrate: wherfore the iudgements betweene brethren & brethren were exer∣cised by Seniors in an ecclesiastical assembly, as it was also vsual in christian Churches plāted by the Apostles. But there is a far diuers cōdition of those Churches which by the benefite of God haue obteyned Princes and christian Magistrates, who haue the chieftie, power, the making of lawes, and gouernment, not only in profane matters, but also in diuine. But that is a most pestilent errour, whereby diuers men thinke no otherwise of the christian Magi∣strate, than of a profane gouernment, whose authoritie is to be acknowledged onely in pro∣fane matters. And surely you do not one iote in this poynt differ from the opinion of the Papists. Truthe it is, that the place of Matthew may be vnderstanded of Seni∣ors: but it may as well be vnderstanded of any other that by the order of the church haue authoritie in the Church. And séeing that it admitteth diuers interpretations (as it dothe) there can no suche platforme of necessitie be grounded vpon it.

Moreouer when Christe sayde, Dic Ecclesiae, there was no christian Churche esta∣blis〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ed, but he speaketh according to the state of the Iewes Churche that then was vnder the Heathenish Magistrates: as he also doth when he saythe: If thy brother* 1.9 trespasse agaynst thee &c. leaue thine offering before the alter. &c. And to this doth M. Caluin agrée in his Harmonie expoūding y^e same place. And surely as of this place you may not conclude, that in the Churche of Christ there ought to be suche offerings and alters, so may you not on the other place conclude, that there ought alwayes to be Seniors. Naye muche lesse this, than the other: for this is doubtfull, and the other is playne.

Notes

• * 1.1

  Math. 18.
• * 1.2

  4. chap.
• * 1.3

  〈1 line〉〈1 line〉0. chap.
• * 1.4

  1. li. 13. cha.
• * 1.5

  Dic ecclesiae interpreted.
• * 1.6

  Church, for the gouernors of the church.
• * 1.7

  Hom. 61. in Matth.
• * 1.8

  Musc. tit. de Magist. in lo. 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉om.
• * 1.9

  Matth. 5.