To be short saith he, when he can say no more, it cannot be gouerned when it is full of hypo∣crites Papists, Atheists, and other wicked persons, as in the times of persecution when ther were few or none such. I haue shewed before how great want of knowledge it bewrayeth, to saye that Papists and Atheists be of the Church, and I loue not as M. Doctor both to vse often reperiti∣on, but if there be now moe hypocrites and other wicked and vnruly persons in the Churche, than there were in the time of persecution (which I will not denie) then there is greater cause noro why there should be Seniors in euery Church, than there was then when there were fewer. For the more naughty persons, and the greater disorders there be, the more ayde and help hath the pastor neede to haue both to find out their disorders, and also when they haue found them out, to iudge of the qualitie of them, and after also to correct them with the censutes of the Church, which standeth in such reprehensions priuate and open, and excommunication, as I haue before rehearsed.
What M. Doctor was able to say more, was vnknowne to you. If he woulde al∣ledge as vaine reasons as you do, and spende paper in vttering his owne fansies without eyther scripture or other authorities, as your vsuall manner is, he would at the least haue séemed to say much, as you do, who indéede say nothing at all.
I say againe that there be in the Churche, that is, in the externall societie of the* 1.1 Church, both Papists, Atheists, drunkards. &c. and your deniall of it I haue shewed before to be vaine. I say surther that those and such like offenders, may best be re∣formed by the ciuill Magistrate, and by corporall punishment: as for your Seniors they will not set a straw by them. For as M. Gualter sayth: They which cannot be brought into order by the authoritie of a lawfull magistrate, and by lawes, will much lesse suffer themselues to be punished by the commaundement of Seniors, or of an Ecclesiasti∣call senate, whome with all their solemnitie they will laugh to scorne.