The defense of the aunsvvere to the Admonition against the replie of T.C. By Iohn VVhitgift Doctor of Diuinitie. In the beginning are added these. 4. tables. 1 Of dangerous doctrines in the replie. 2 Of falsifications and vntruthes. 3 Of matters handled at large. 4 A table generall.

The faults wherewith the Admonitors charge the Apparell ansvvered.

Chap. 7. the. 1. Diuision.

Admonition.

But they are as the garments of the idoll, to which we should say, auaunt, and get the e h〈1 line〉〈1 line〉▪

They are as the garments of Balaamites, of Popish priests, enimies to God and all christians.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Page. 237. Sect. 3. 4. & Pag. 238. Sect. 1.

But you say, they are as the garmentes of the Idoll, to the whiche we should say, a∣uant and get thee hence, they are as the garments of Balaamites, of Popish priests, enimies to God and all Christians. Be it so: so were all things in Hierico accursed, and an abhomination to the Lord, neither was it lawfull for the Is∣raelites to touch any thing therof: and yet was the gold and the sil∣uer, and the brasen and iron vessels caried into the treasure house of the Lord, and consecrated vnto him. Iosua. 6.

Gedeon was commaunded to take and sacrifice that Oxe of his fa∣thers to God, which his father had fedde, and brought vp to be sacri∣ficed to Baal, yea and to burne that Oxe with the selfesame wood, that was consecrated and dedicated to the Idoll Baal. Iudic. 6.

Our forefathers toke the temples dedicated wholly to Idolls, yea to Deuils, and most abhominably defiled with diuelish and ab∣hominable seruice, and turned them into holy Churches, wher Christ should be worshipped.

T. C. Pag. 57. Sect. 6. 7.

Whereas you say that the accursed things of Iericho, and the Oxe, that was fedde to be 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉anc∣tified vnto Baal, and the wood consecrated vnto the Idoll, were conuerted to the seruice of the liuing God, when you shall proue that the surplis is so necessary to the seruice of God, as gold. and siluer, and other mettall, and as Oxen and wood, whereof the first sort were such, as without the which, the temple could not be built, the other, such as were expressely commaunded of God▪ to be vsed in his seruice, then I will confesse that this place maketh something for you. And(*) yet if your coapes and surplices. &c. should haue such a purgation by fyre, as those(a) metalls had, or euer the Lord would admitte them into his treasure house, and should be driuen to passe from Poperie vnto the gospell, by the Chimney, the fire would make suche wracke with them, that they should neede haue better legges, than your arguments, to bring them into the Church.

Moreouer, do you not see heere, that you haue not losed the knotte, but cut it? For the authors of the Admonition obiect the place of Esay. 30. and you obiect againe the places of Deuteronomy, and of the Iudges, this is to oppose sword against sword: in stead that you shoulde haue first hol∣den out your buckler, and latched the blow of your aduersary. As for Churches, it hath bin answe∣red that they haue a profitable vse, and therefore very euill compared with the surplis, whiche be∣side that it bringeth no profyte, hurteth also, as is before said.

Io. Whitgifte.

That wood, that golde, and that Oxe. &c. was not so necessary, but that bothe God might haue bin serued, and the temple builded without them: and therefore that is no an∣swere. For although gold, wood, oxen. &c. be necessary, yet the golde and siluer founde in I〈1 line〉〈1 line〉richo, the Oxe reserued by Gedeons father, and wood that was consecrated to Baal, was not so necessary: for there might haue bin other golde, siluer, wood, oxen. &c. prouided. In that God commaunded these things to be done, you know that S. Au∣gustine (in the epistle ad Publicolam, in the words before rehearsed) doth conclude a ge∣nerall doctrine, that things dedicated to Idolls may be conuerted to common vses, and to the honoure of God. For he vseth the selfesame places to proue the same, and an∣swereth that, which may be alledged to the contrary out of Deuterono. So doth it al∣so the place of Esay quoted in the margent of the Admonition: which answer if it will not satisfy you, then do I further referre you to that, which I haue also before allead∣ged out of M. Caluine writing vpon the. 23. of Exod. verse. 24. But thys place of E∣say and suche lyke, are vnaptly alleadged agaynste the apparell nowe vsed, being

nothing of that nature, that those thinges be, whereof the Prophete in that place speaketh.

You say: if our coapes and surplices. &c. should haue suche a purgation by fyr〈1 line〉〈1 line〉. &c. I pray you where reade you of any such purgation by fire of those metalls before they were admitted into the Lords treasure house? And what purgation by fire coulde there be of the wood, or of the oxe, before they were vsed in the sacrifice and s〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ruice of the Lorde? There is no such purging of the things taken in Iericho mentioned in that Chapter, but the contrary: for thus it is written. After they burnt the citie with fire, and all that was there∣in, only the siluer and gold, and the vessels of brasse and iron they put into the treasure house of the Lorde: and in the place before, where Iosua is commaunded to reserue these things, there is no commaundement of any such purging.

As your common answer is this, that such things haue profitable vses, and therfore may be reteyned, though they were consecrated to Idols (which is but a shift of your owne without any ground) so I say that these vestures haue a decent and comely vse, and be referred to order, and therefore may be reteyned likewise although they were vsed in Idolatrie. And if you shal answer and say that ther may be other things vsed mo〈1 line〉〈1 line〉t comely and decently, then I reply, that so there may be places as commo∣dious as these Churches: golde, siluer, wood. &c. as good and as profitable as that. And if you obiect that they be not comely and decent, then I say vnto you, that it is your part, and the part of all those, that be obedient, to submitte your selues to the iudge∣ment of those that be in authoritie, except they commaund such things as be contrary to the commaundement of God.

Chap. 7. the. 2. Diuision.

Ansvver to the Admonition. Fol. 238. Sect. 2. 3.

To be short, no Deuill, no Idoll, no Pope can so defile the nature or forme (not being contrary to the scriptures) of any of Gods crea∣tures, that the libertie of a Christian man shuld be taken away in v∣sing, and not vsing them.

And I say againe with M. Bucer, that for any thing to be a note of Antichrist, is not in the nature of any creature in itselfe (for to that end nothing vvas made of God) but it hangeth altogyther of consenting to An∣tichristes religion, and the professing thereof: The vvhiche consente and profession being changed into the consente and profession of Christiani∣tie, there can sticke in the thinges themselues no note or marke of Anti∣christes religion. The vse of bells vvas a marke of Antichristianitie in our Churches, vvhen the people by them vvere called to Masses, and vvhen they vvere roong against tempests, novv they are a token of Cstristianitie, vvhen the people by them are gathered togyther to the Gospell of Christ, and other holy actions. &c.

T. C. Page. 57. Sect. vlt.

To be short (saith M. Doctor) when he reciteth me almost a whole side word for word, as he hath cited before, where he hath had his answer.

Io. Whitgifte.

Surely this iesting spirite was neuer in any of the Apostles or Martyrs of Chri∣stes Church that I can reade: but to passe it ouer, M. Doctors Short is very shortly answered: the cause wherof I referre to the Reader. Howsoeuer you iest out the mat∣ter, you haue neither answered M. Doctors to be short, nor that which is translated.

Chap. 7. the third Diuision.

Admonition.

They serue not to edification.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 238. Sect. 3.

You say also that they do not edify. If you say that they do not e∣dify of themselues, you say truly: for only the holy Ghost on this sort doth edify, by the ministerie of the word. But if you say, they edifye not at all, that is, that they do not tend to edifying, as other cere∣monies and things vsed in the Church (as Pulpit, Church, kneeling, singing and such like) which be appointed for order and decencie, do: then speake you that, whiche you are not able by sound arguments to iustify.

Io. Whitgifte.

To this not one word.

Chap. 7. the fourth Diuision.

Ansvver to the Admonition Pag. 238. Sect. vlt.

Peter Martyr in his epistle written to M. Hooper thinketh that they do edify after a sort as other ceremonies do. And so doth M. Bucer al∣so in his epistle written to M. Alasco.

T. C. Pag. 57. Sect. vlt.

After this he setteth himselfe to proue that they do edify, and that firste by M. Bucers and M. Martyrs authoritie, and yet in their words before alleadged, there is not a word of edifying, If he gather it of their words, the answer is already made.

Io. Whitgifte.

I tell you it is in their epistles, not in their words before alleadged. M. Bucers worde〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 be these. Now if any Church iudge and haue experience (such as I doubt not there are ma∣ny at these days in Germany) that the vse of such vesture bringeth some commendation to the holy ministration, and thereby helpeth somewhat in the way of comelinesse and order, to the encrease of faithe: VVhat (I pray you) can be brought out of the scriptures why that Churche is not left to hir owne iudgement in this matter, neyther therefore to be contem∣ned, or to be called into question for hir iudgement sake? That Church verely will keepe in these things a meane agreable to the crosse of Christ, and will diligently attend that no abuse creepe into it. Hitherto M. Bucer. To the like effect also writeth M. Martyr in the epistle before named.

Chap. 7. the. 5. Diuision.

Ansvver to the Admonition. Fol. 239. Sect. 1.

Furthermore, that they do edify, it is manifest, firste, bycause they are by a lawfull magistrate, by lawfull authoritie, for order and de∣cencie appoynted in the Church, without any manner of superstition, or suspicion of the same.

T. C. Pag. 57. Sect. vlt.

Then he bringeth reasons to proue it, whereof in the first he seemeth to reason that bycause it is commaunded by a lawfull magistrate, and lawfull authoritie, therefore it edifyeth. As though a lawfull magistrate doth nothing at any time vnlawfully, or as though a lawfull and a godly magi∣strate doth not sometimes commaund things, which are inconuenient and vnlawfull. Saule was a lawfull magistrate, and did commaund vnlawfull things. Dauid was a lawfull and godly magi∣strate,

and yet there flipt from him commaundements, which were neyther lawfull nor godly. But he addeth that it is done for order, and for decencie without superstition, or suspition of it. This is that, which is in controuersie, and ought to be proued, and M. Doctor still taketh it as graunted, and still faulteth in the petition of the principle, wherewith he chargeth others.

Io. Whitgifte.

That whiche is appointed in the Church by a lawfull magistrate, and by lawfull authoritie for order and decencie without any superstition or suspition of superstition doth edify as other orders do: but it is certaine that the apparell nowe vsed is so ap∣pointed, Ergo, it doth edify as other orders do.

You cauill at the maior, and bring in the examples of Saule and Dauid, to proue that a lawfull magistrate did commaund vnlawfull things, but you omitte the other circum∣stances conteined in the maior, and therefore you answer not to the purpose. The mi∣nor you saye is in controuersie, and I do fault in the petition of the principle. Surely I do petere y^• principium, that no good subiect can denie. For the Quéenes maiestie is a lawful ma∣gistrate, the authoritie of Parliament is a lawful authoritie, hir maiestie by that au∣thoritie hathe appointed this apparell, and that as it is protested for comelinesse and decencie without any superstition, Ergo, the minor is true. If you will yet doubte of comelinesse and decencie, then I still say vnto you, that what is comely and decent, is not euery mans part to iudge, but the magistrates and suche as haue authoritie in the Church.

Chap. 7. the. 6. Diuision.

Ansvver to the Admonition. Pag. 239. Sect. 2.

Secondly, bycause we are by due proofe and experience taughte, that such as haue worne this apparell, and do weare it, by the mini∣sterie of the word haue greatly edifyed, and do dayly.

T. C. Page. 58. Sect. 1.

The second reason is, that they that weare this apparell haue edifyed, and do edify, which is, as if a man would say, the midwiues which lyed vnto Pharao, did much good amongst the Israelits, Ergo their lying did much good. If he will say, the comparison is not like bycause the one is not sinne in his owne nature, whereas the other is sinne, then take this: One that stammereth and stut∣teth in his tong edifyeth the people, therefore stammering and stutting is good to edify. For what if the Lord giue his blessing vnto his word, and to other good gifts, which he hath that preacheth and weareth a surplis, &c. Is it to be thought therefore, that he liketh wel of the wearing of that appa∣rell? This is to assigne the cause of a thing to that, which is not only not the cause thereof, but some hindrance also, and s〈1 line〉〈1 line〉aking of that, whereof it is supposed to be a cause. For a man may rather rea∣son, that for asmuch as they which preach with surplis. &c. edify (notwithstanding that they therby (*) driue away some, and to othersome giue suspition of euill. &c.) then if they preached withoute wearing any such thinges, they should edify much more. And yet if a man were assured to gaine a thousand, by doing of that, which may offend, or cause to fall one brother, he ought not to do it.

Io. Whitgifte.

Indéede, if this apparell were of that nature, that a lye is, your similitude of the midwiues had some shew in it: and yet must you of necessitie confesse, that their lying to Pharao did much good per accidens: for otherwise the men children of the Israelites, and euen Moses himselfe had bin murthered: and you are not ignorant that diuers writers in this respect excuse that doing of theirs. You knowe likewise what the opinion of some is, touching that kynd of lye that is called officiosum mendacium: but for my part, I am in that point of Sainte Augustines iudgement. But your similitude is not lyke: and if it were, yet makes it agaynst you, for theyr lying dyd good, as I haue sayd e before.

Yo〈1 line〉〈1 line〉r other similitude of stammering & stutting is ridiculous, and argueth your great

contempt of lawfull and decent orders. The lawes of this Churche haue prescribed this apparell to the ministers of the worde as decent, orderly, and comely, the same lawes haue inhibited those to preach, that refuse to submit themselues vnto such or∣ders. Wherefore s〈1 line〉〈1 line〉eing they be appointed as fit garments for preachers, and non〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 may preach, except he receiue them, they do edify, not by themselues, as I haue be∣fore declared, but per accidens, as all other suche like things do. For neyther the church, nor the Pulpit, nor the bells, nor 〈◊〉〈◊〉 and such other do otherwise edify than per accidens.

Touching offence that is taken at the wearing of this apparell, I haue shewed be∣fore, that it is an offence taken and not giuen: neyther is i〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 to be considered whether men be offended or no, but whether they haue any iust cause of offence. Many be of∣fended with our Churches, and will neyther heare sermon, nor receiue the sacra∣ments in them: we must not therefore pull downe our Churches, or cease to preach, and administer the Sacramentes in them. You must remember the destinction of scandalum acceptum and scandalum datum: an offence giuen, and an offence taken.

Chap. 7. the seuenth Diuision.

Ansvver to the Admonition. Fol. 239. Sect. 3.

Thirdly, bycause also by experience we dayly vnderstand, that such as consent in wearing this apparell, consent also in all other points of doctrine, and kepe the peace of the church, which is one of the prin∣cipall causes of edifying: contrariwise, such as refuse the same appa∣rel, not only dissent & disagree among themselues, but fal into diuers & strange opiniōs without stay: & slander the gospel with their con∣tentiousnesse, and teare in peeces the Church of Christ with their fa∣ctions and schismes: and be the cause why both the worde of God, and Christian magistrates be almost generally contemned.

T. C. Pag. 58. Sect. 2.

The thirde reason is, that they which consent in wearing the surplices, consent also in all o∣ther poyntes of doctrine, and they that doe not weare it, do not consent, not so muche as amongst themselues. I〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 this consent in the points of religion be in the surplice, cope. &c. tell vs I beseech you, whether in the matter, or in the forme, or in what h〈1 line〉〈1 line〉dde and vnknowne qualitie standeth it? If it be n that the ministers vse all one apparell, then it is maruel〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 that this being so strong a bonde to holde them together in godlie vnitie, that it was neuer commaunded of Christe, nor practised of Prophets or Apostles, 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ether of no other re〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ormed Churches. I had thought whol∣ly, that those things whiche the Lorde oppoynteth to mayntayne and keepe vnitie with, and 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉∣specially the holie Sacramentes of Baptisme, and of the Lordes Supper, had bene strong ynough to haue fyrste of all knitte vs vnto the Lorde, and therefore also to his doctrine, and then one of vs to an other, and that the dissentings in suche a Ceremonie as a Surplice. &c. ney∣ther should nor could in those that 〈◊〉〈◊〉 vnto God, breake the vnitie of the Spirite, which is bounde with the bonde of truthe. And although there bee whyche lyke not this apparell, that thinke otherwyse than eyther theyr brethren, or than in deede they oughte to doe, yet a man may fynde greater dissent amongest those, whiche are vnyted in Surplice and Cope. &c. than there is amongest those whyche weare them not, eyther wyth them selues, or with them that weare them. For howe many there are that weare Surplices, whiche woulde bee 〈◊〉〈◊〉 to saye a Masse, than to heare a Sermon, lette all the worlde iudge. And of those that 〈◊〉〈◊〉 weare this apparell, and be otherwyse well mynded to the Gospell, are there not whiche wyl〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 weare the Surplice and not the cappe: other that will weare bothe cap end surplice, but not the tippet: and yet a thirde sorte, that will weare surplice, cappe, and tippet, but not the cop〈1 line〉〈1 line〉? It hathe bene the manner alwayes of wyse and learned men to esteeme of things by the causes, an〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 not by the euent, and that especially in matters of religion, for if they should be esteemed of the euent, who is there which wil not condemne the Israelites battel agaynst Aye, and 〈◊〉〈◊〉 a∣gaynst the Bemamites? which notwithstandyng, the cause which was Gods wil, and Gods 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉∣maundement, iustifyeth. And therfore in a word I answer, that if there be such con〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ent 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉mongst those which like well of this apparel, and such 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉arres amongst those y^t like it not, as M. 〈◊〉〈◊〉

woulde make the worlde beleeue) neyther is the w〈1 line〉〈1 line〉aryng of a surplice. &c. cause of that consent in thē, nor the not wearing, cause of that disagrement in the other. But as our knowledge and loue is vnperfect here in this world, so is our agreement and consent of iudgement vnperfect. And yet all these hard speaches of yours, or vncharitable suspicions of papisme, Anabaptisme, catharisme, do∣na〈1 line〉〈1 line〉sme. &c. wherby you do as much (as lyeth in you) to cut vs cleane of from you, shall not be able so to estrange vs or separate vs from you, but that we will by gods grace holde, whatsoeuer you holde well, and kepe that vnitie of spirit, which is the bond of truth, euen with you Master Doctor whom we s〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ppose as appeareth by this your booke, to haue set yourselfe further frō vs, than num∣bers of those, whiche althoughe they be content to receiue the apparell, and beare with things, yet would haue bene loth to haue set downe that against the sinceritie of the Gospell, and hind〈1 line〉〈1 line〉rance of reformation, which you haue bone.

Io. Whitgifte.

Such lawes & orders as kepe godly peace and vnitie in the Church do 〈◊〉〈◊〉, but the lawes for apparell kepe godly peace & vnitie in the Church, Ergo, they edifie. The M〈1 line〉〈1 line〉∣nor I proue by experience of such as are subiect to these lawes & by the euent: which is a probable kinde of reasoning, though it be not necessarie: neither may the examples of a few improue that, which is generally true almost in all.

These persons, that you talke of, which be thus contrarily mynded (if there be any such, as I thinke you do but faine) yet do they kepe the peace of the Church, they con∣demne not their brethren, neither yet the apparel that they them selues (peraduenture for some speciall cause) weare not.

Some I know there are, which agrée with vs in wearing the apparell, and ioyne with you in contention: subscribe to all our orders & articles, and yet in certaine places and companies mainteine your opinions, but of such we make no accompt, neither I thinke do you, further than they may serue your turne.

Againe I confesse that there be some which haue not receiued the apparell, and yet greatly mislike many of your opinions, and kéepe with vs the vnitie of the Churche, whom I for my part haue alwayes reuerenced, & do reuerence not onely for their sin∣gular vertue & learning, but for their modestie also. Wherfore when I speake eyther of the one or of the other, I speake not of all, but of the most part.

Certaine it is, that those things which the Lord appointeth to kepe vnitie with, and especi∣ally the sacraments ought to be the especiall bond of the same: & that nothing should sepa∣rate those, that are coupled and ioyned therein: but we sée it fall out othe〈1 line〉〈1 line〉wise, such is the crooked & rebellious nature of mā, & therfore hath God also appointed Magistrats, and giuen them a〈1 line〉〈1 line〉thoritie to make orders & lawes to mainteine the peace and vnitie of the Churche, that those which of conscience and good disposition will not, by suche lawes and orders may be constrained at the least to kéepe the externall peace and v∣nitie of the Churche. Doe you take this to be a good reason: The Sacrament〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 are bond〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 to kepe and mainteyne the v〈1 line〉〈1 line〉itie of the spirite, therefore there 〈◊〉〈◊〉 no lawes or Magi∣strates to prouide for the externall peace and quietnesse of the Churche? your imagi∣nation throughoute your whole booke is of suche a perfection in men, as thoughe they néeded no lawes or Magistrates to gouerne them, but that euery man mighte be as it were a lawe to himselfe, whiche wherevnto it tendeth may easily be coniec∣tured.

I haue not set downe any thing (I trust) to the hinderance of the Gospell, or of reformation▪ but I séeke to reforme such contentious spirites as be enimyes vnto both. And I be∣léeue that when some other (not onely such as you meane, but such as you least thinke of) shall vnderstande the depth of your opinions, together with the strangenesse, vn∣truth, da〈1 line〉〈1 line〉gerousnesse & other circumstances ioyned with them, they will thinke that I haue spoken or written nothing eyther vntruely, or vnnecessarily. In the meane tyme I discharge my conscience and duetie, and so will doe (God willing) as long as I can either speake or write.

Chap. 7. the eight Diuision.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Page. 239. Sect. 4.

I here omit that which I might as iustly bring for this kynde of apparell, as you do for sitting at the cōmunion: I meane a fit & pro∣fitable signification, wherof M. Martyr speaketh in the Epistle before mentioned on this sort: I vvill not here say, that they vvhich stand to the defence of this matter, may pretend some honest and iuste significatiō of the apparell, and that not dissenting from the vvorde of God, vvhich is this: the Ministers of the Church (as the Prophet Malachie vvitnesseth) be An∣gels and Gods messengers: but Angels for the most parte appeared, beyng clothed in vvhite garmentes. I pray you hovv shall vve debarre the church of this libertie, that it can not signifie some good thing in setting forth their rites and ceremonies, especially being so done, that no manner of Gods ho∣nour is attributed vnto them, and that they be in sight comely, and in num∣ber fevve, and that Christian people be not vvith them ouerburdened, and matters of greater importance be omitted.

T. C. Pag. 59. Line. 5.

The white apparell which is a note and a true representation of the glory and purenesse in the Angels, should be a lying signe, and pretence of that, which is not in the Ministers, which are mi∣serable and sinfull men. And our sauiour Christ, which was the minister of God, and pure from sinne, and therefore meetest to weare the markes of purenesse, vsed no suche kinde of wede, sauing onely for that small time, wherein he would giue to his disciples in the mount, a taste of that glory which he should enioy for euer, and they with him: where for the time his apparell appeared as white as snow. And if it be meete that y^e ministers should represent the Angels in their apparell, it is much more meete, that they should haue a paire of winges as the Angels are described to haue, to put them in remembrance of their readinesse and quicknesse to execute their office, which may & ought to be in them, than to weare white apparell, which is a token of purenesse from sinne and in∣fection, and of a glory, which neither they haue, nor can haue, nor ought so much as to desire to haue, as long as they be in this worlde. And whereas the mainteyners of this apparell, haue for theyr greatest defence, that it is a thing meere ciuill: to let passe, that they confounde ecclesiasticall orders with ciuill (which they can no more iustly doe, than to confounde the Churche wyth the common wealth) I saye to let that passe, they doe by this meanes not onely make it an Ecclesiasticall cere∣monye, but also a matter of conscience. For if 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉o be that the white apparell of the Minister haue any force, eyther to moue the people, or the Minister vnto greater purenesse, or to any other god∣lynesse whatsoeue〈1 line〉〈1 line〉, then it is that which ought to be commaunded, and to be obeyed of necessitie, and to be reteyned, although the contrarie were forbidden. And then also if there be a vertue in a whitegarment, and the 〈◊〉〈◊〉 thereof be so strong to worke godlynesse, it were meete that order were taken, (a) that the whitest cloth〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 shoulde be bought, that should be often (at the leaste euery weeke once) washed by a very good la〈1 line〉〈1 line〉nder, and with sope: for if the white (b) helpe, more white helpeth more, and that whych is most white, helpeth moste of all to godlynesse. Although〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 the Churche haue authoritie to make Ceremonyes (so they be accordyng to the rules before re∣cited of Gods glory, and profiting the congregation) I coulde for all that neuer yet learne that it had power to gyue newe significations, as it were to institute newe Sacramentes. And by thys meanes is taken cleane away from vs, the holde whiche we haue agaynst the Papistes, whereby (agaynst all the goodly shewes which they make by the colour of these significations) we saye that the worde of God, and the Sacramentes of Baptisme, and of the Supper of the Lorde, are suf∣ficient to teache, to admoni〈1 line〉〈1 line〉he, and to put vs in remembraunce of all duetie whatsoeuer. So we are nowe come to the superstition of the Grecians, for as they wyll haue neyther grauen nor car∣〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ed image in theyr Churches, but paynted, so will we neyther haue grauen nor carued, nor payn∣ted, but wouen. And truely I see no cause why w〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 may not haue as wel holy water and holy bread, if thys reason which is heere, be good: for I am sure the significations of them are as glorious as this of the surplice, and call to remembrance as necessarie things. And if it be sayde, that it maye not be, leaste the number of Ceremonyes shoulde be to to greate, it maye be easily answered, that these whiche we haue maye be taken awaye, and those set in place of them. And therefore al∣thoughe the surplice haue a blacke spottè, when it is whitest, yet is it not so blacke as you make it wyth your white significations, nor the cause so cu〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ll, as you d〈1 line〉〈1 line〉fende it.

If you presse me wyth M. Martyrs and M. Bucers authoritie, (c) I first say they were men, 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 therefore (although otherwyse very watchfull) yet such as slept some times. And then I appeale from their Apocryphas, vnto their knowne writings, and from theyr priuate letters vnto theyr publike recordes.

Io. Whitgifte.

I haue here onely set downe M. Martyrs words to shew that I might as iustly bring in a fit and profitable signification of the apparell, as the authors of the Admonition doe of sitting at the communion. I dyd not allow their signification of sitting, neyther doe I approue any suche signification of Apparell: but yet you will gyue me leaue to set the one agaynste the other, and to shewe that I mighte aswell doe the one as they doe the other.

You peruert Master Martyrs wordes: for he sayth that for as muche as Angels ap∣peared in white apparell, and the Ministers of the Churche be Angels and Gods messen∣gers, therefore the Churche maye appoynt to hir Ministers suche apparell in signification of their office. Which you doe not answere, but range vp and downe at your plea∣sure like vnto a spaniell not taughte to followe his game. M. Martyr doth not say that the apparell is a signe of purenesse that is in the Minister: and therefore all this that you write in confuting of that, myght haue bene cutte off, and very well spared. But if Master Martyr shoulde haue sayde that it maye be a signe of the purenesse that oughte to be in Ministers, you are to séeke for an answere as yet. Christ beyng puritie it selfe néeded nothyng to put hym in mynde thereof, but man beyng impure may haue externall instrumentes to byd hym (as it were) remember what he ought to be. I thinke that seuerall kyndes of habites be appoynted to men of diuerse degrées and calling, partly for that purpose: and if a man in graue apparell vse hymselfe light∣ly or wantonly, we vse commonly to saye suche behauiour becommeth not that ap∣parell, meanyng that hys habite and apparell oughte to put him in mynde of mode∣stie and grauitie: and thys doth argue that euen méere ciuill things maye haue signi∣fications, whiche ouerthroweth an other argument of yours, whereby you woulde proue that the apparell muste of necessitie be an ecclesiasticall ceremonie, bycause there is attributed vnto it some signification. Whether it be a matter meare ciuill, or meare Ecclesiasticall, or mixt of both, is not now the questiō, neither yet whether the Church may be confounded wyth the common wealth or no, and therfore I will not here deale with anye of them, leaste I shoulde confounde both the matter, and the Reader: onely I speake of your argument, whiche is confuted by common vsage: for seuerall ha∣bites in the vniuersities signifie seuerall degrées in learnyng: seuerall kynde of ap∣parell, seuerall callings and functions in the common wealthe: and thys apparell doth put euerie man in mynde of hys duetie, and yet they are not longer to be retei∣ned than the Magistrate and the lawes doe permitte: but are alterable accordyng to tymes, places, and persons: No man sayth that there is vertue in such garmentes or power to worke godlynesse, and therefore your pretie iestes builded vpon that ground are vayne and toyish, and your topicall place not rightly vnderstanded: for it is ment of such things, quae per se aliquid faciunt.

Euery thing that signifieth any thing is not a sacrament, for then were Matrimonie asacrament, and so were laying on of hands, and such like.

The Papistes vsed vnlawfull signes, and attributed vnto them life and death, for they made them necessarie to saluation.

Images whether they be grauen, paynted or wouen, are agaynste the expresse com∣maundement of God, and therefore these be vnapte similitudes, neyther woulde you haue vsed them, if you had well considered M. Martyrs wordes.

The same I answere to your allegation of holy water and holy bread, they be pseudoa∣diaphora, and haue annexed vnto them opinion of saluation and of worship: all which we vtterly remoue from these orders.

Your answere to M. Martyrs & M. Bucers authoritie is sure, but not greatly com∣mendable: for it is the easiest, but the worst answere that can be to denie the authori∣tie of wise, learned, & famous men, & that without reason, & onely by cauilling. These be their knowne writings, and they be written of purpose vpon these controuersies ac∣cording to the circumstances of time, place and person, and therefore if any thing in their publike writings séeme to be against their iudgements here, distinguishe the tyme and other circumstances, and I doubt not but they will well agrée with themselues. Interim, you doe your endeuour to deface them.

Chap. 7. the ninth Diuision.

Admonition.

They haue the shewe of euill, (seing the Popishe priesthood is euill.)

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 240. Sect. 2.

When they were a signe and token of the Popishe priesthood, then were they euil, euen as the thing was, which they signified: but now they be the tokens & the signes of the ministers of the worde of God which are good, & therfore also they be good: no man in this Church of England is so ignorant, but that he knoweth this apparell not to be nowe the signes of a Massing Priest, but of a lawfull Minister: wherfore it is a shew of good: euen as it is in the like manner in the vniuersities a shewe and signe of degrees in learning, and therefore a shewe of good, excepte you will also condemne degrees of learning. Neither is it any straunge matter, for the selfe same thing in diuerse respects, and at diuerse times, to be the signe both of good and euill. The bels were a signe of euill, whē they were rung to cal to Masse, and to stay stormes and tempests, the selfe same bels are now a signe of good, when they be rung to Sermons and other godly actions. The Churches themselues were a signe of euil, whē Idolatrie was committed in them, & false doctrine preached: now they be a signe of good, when God is rightly worshipped in them: & his worde truely preached. Many such examples I could bring, but a reasonable mā can gather of these sufficiently to confute your error. Futhermore when we be willed to absteyne from all shewe of euill, it is ment of euill life, and euil doctrine, least we doe any thing with a scrupulous conscience.

T. C. Pag. 59. tovvardes the ende.

M. Doctor proceedeth to proue that they are signes & shewes of good & not of euil, as y^e authors of the Admonition alleage. To the proofe whereof, although (according to his manner) he repea∣teth diuerse things before alleaged, yet the summe of all he hathe comprehended in an argument, which is, that for so muche as the ministers are good which weare them, therefore they are also good: and bicause the ministers, whereof the apparell are notes, and markes, be good: therefore those be good notes and good markes: so the reason is, they are notes, and notes of good ministers, therefore they be good notes of the ministers. So I will proue the names of Idols to be fit and conuenient names for good men to be called by. Beltshaser, Saddrake, Misacke, and Abed-nego were names of Daniell and his three companions, and they were the names of good men, there∣fore they are good names of men. And so the names of the Babilonian Idols, are by this reason of M. Doctor iustified to be good names. Againe the golden calfe, was a signe. Also it was (*) a signe of the true God: therefore it was a true signe of God. Concerning the notes of ciuill pro∣fessions, and what difference is betwene those and this cause, I haue spoken before.

Io. Whitgifte.

The Admonition sayth thus: they haue the shew of euill, seing y^e popish priesthood is euill. To this I answer that whē they were a signe & token of the popish priest∣hood, then they were euill, & a signe of euill, bicause the thing was e∣uill, which they signified: but now they are tokens of the Ministers of the Gospell which are good, and therfore they are good, & the signes of good. The reason is M. Bucers: I am not ashamed of my author, and it is stronger than you can ouerthrowe. For let me heare howe you will answere this argument: whatsoeuer signifieth and noteth that which is good, is a signe of good: but this appa∣rell signifieth that which is good, Ergo, it is a signe of good. The Maior is euident. The Minor is thus proued. The ministerie of the Gospell is good: but this apparel is a signe of the ministerie of the Gospell, Ergo it is a signe of good. All the Logike you haue can not answere this argument, except you will denie the apparell to be the signe of the ministerie of the Gospel, which were to denie y^t which is subiect to the senses: the other examples that I haue vsed, doth make this matter more manifest. I referre it to the Reader to iudge how fitly you haue answered them.

Whether they be good signes, or no, is not nowe the question, but whether they be signes of good, for that the Admonition denieth. If you can conclude that they be euill, bicause they be signes of euill, why may not I likewise say that they be good, bicause they be signes of good. We commonly call that a good signe, which is a signe of good, neyther can you place this reason in any fallacian, it is a signe of good, Ergo, it is a good signe: for it is called a good signe in this respect onely, that it signifieth that, which is good.

Those names in respect of those whom they signified were good: in the respect of the Idols, to whome they properly belonged, they were euill: for such externall things in diuers respects may be both good & euill. The golden calfe was an Idoll made to be wor∣shipped, no signe of the true God, and therfore vndiscretly here brought in.

Wheresoeuer I haue before alleaged these things you speake of, yet be they answe∣red neither here nor there: & this the Reader may note if he list, that whersoeuer you cannot answere, there either you frumpe & girde after your maner, or you cauill and confute your owne imagination, or closely passe the matter ouer in silence, or poste it ouer to some other place, where you speake nothing of it.

Chap. 7. the tenth Diuision.

Admonition.

They worke discorde, they hinder the preaching of the Gospell.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 241. Sect. 2.

This is an argumente à non causa ad causam: it is not the apparell that worketh discorde, or hindereth the preaching of the Gospell, no, no more than it is the worde of God that engendreth heresies, or wyne that maketh drunke, or the sworde that murthereth, or the law that worketh iniurie. &c. But it is the sinister affection, the rebellious na∣ture, the contentious minde of man. For who began this contention, or when was it begon? Truely if the lawe for apparell were vtter∣ly abrogated, yet would not your contentiō cease, nay, it would burst out muche more vehemently, and in farre greater matters, as this your Admonition declareth. And therefore I thinke rather, that the lawe for apparell will stay further contentions, especially if it be due∣ly executed.

T. C. Pag. 60. Sect. 1.

You say the cause of disorder is not in the apparell, but in the mindes of men. You meane I am sure, those that refuse the apparell, but if you make them authors of discorde, bycause they consente not wyth you in wearing, do you not see it is (*) assone sayd, that you are the causers of discord, by∣cause you doe not consent with those which weare not? For as there should be vnitie in that point if all did weare that apparell, so shoulde there be, if all did weare none of it. It is a very vnequall comparison that you compare the vse of this apparell, with the vse of wyne, and of a sworde, which are profitable and necessarie, but it is more intollerable, that you match it with the worde of God. I coulde throwe it as farre downe, as you li〈1 line〉〈1 line〉te it vp, but I will not doe so. This onely I wyll say, if there were no harme in it, and that it were also profitable, yet forasmuch as it is not commaū∣ded of God expressely, but a thing (as you say) indifferent, and notwithstanding is cause of so ma∣nie incommodities, and so abused (as I haue before declared) it ought to be sufficient reason to a∣bolishe them: seing that the brasen serpent, which was instituted of the Lorde himselfe, and con∣teyned a profitable remembrance of the wonderfull benefite of God towardes his people, was bea∣ten to pouder, when as it beganne to be an occasion of falling vnto the children of Israell: and see∣ing that S. Paule after the loue feastes (which were kepte at the administration of the Lordes Supper, and were meanes to nourish〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 loue amongst the Churches) were abused and drawne to another vse than they were first ordeyned, did vtterly take them away, and commaunde that they should not be vsed any more.

Io. Whitgifte.

I may answere you almost in the selfe same wordes and maner, that M. Zuinglius answered one Balthazar an Anabaptist, who charged him then, as you charge vs now in this place: consider, saith he, who be the authors and causes of dissention: whether we that attempt nothing of our owne priuate authoritie, but haue submitted our selues to the iudgement of the Church, and of those that be gouernours of the same, or rather you, who so arrogantly, without any such authoritie doe what you list, speake what you list, allow and condemne at your pleasure▪ But for further tryall hereof, I referre you to such notes, as I haue collected out of Zuinglius and others, and placed in the second edition of my Answere to the Admonition.

Our consenting is according to our duetie required of vs by the worde of God to∣wards such as be in authoritie: your dissenting is contrarie to your dutie of obedience in such cases inioyned vnto you by the word of God. If all refused the apparell wyth you, yet would you not be quiet, for you make this the least cause of your schisme. I do not compare this apparell with the word of God, but by these examples I shew the vn∣aptnesse of such arguments as be à non causa ad causam. You haue throwne it downe as low as you can, and if you could cast it lower, your will is good, & therfore to say you coulde do it and wil not, is as great an offence as was the midwiues lying to Pharao.

I haue shewed in my answere, that as the case now standeth, it is rather commodi∣ous: as for abuses in it, as it is nowe vsed, you haue hitherto shewed none, & if it were abused, yet doth it not follow that therefore it is to be remoued, except the abuse coulde not be taken away without the abolishing of the thing, as it was in the brasen serpent: which serpent though it was by God commaūded to be set vp, yet was it (as M. Mar∣tyr saith) but for that time, wherin power was giuen vnto it to heale and cure those that were bitten of the serpents, Num. 21. and therfore being but temporal, and thus a∣bused, was lawfully takē away, neither would the Idolatrie committed vnto it other∣wise haue ceased. But do you thinke that any man doth worship the apparell, as the Israelites did worship the serpent? S. Paul in that Chapter of the. 1. Cor. reproueth them for certaine abuses about the Lords Supper, whereof this was one of the chiefe, that they made it an occasion of feasting and banquetting, which maner of feasting in the Church was not onely borowed of the gentils, as M. Bullinger sayth, but occasion also of much contention, and very vnséemely for that time and place. And as Master Caluine sayth vpon that place. The Corinthians are reproued, bycause they had mingled prophane banquettes (and that also with the contumely of the poore) with that holy and spirituall feast: and therefore expedient it was, that they shoulde betaken awaye, and if you can shewe the like vncurable abuse in the apparell, I will crye away with it, as fast as you do.

Chap. 7. the. 11. Diuision.

Admonition.

They keepe the memorie of Egypt still amongst vs, and put vs in minde of that abhomina∣tion wherevnto they in times past haue serued, they bring the ministerie into contempt, they of∣fende the weake, they encorage the obstinate.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 241. Sect. 3. 4. 5.

You saye, they keepe the memorie of Egypt still amongst vs. &c. No truely, no more than dothe the Churche, the Pulpit, the Bells. &c. but they teache vs the true vse of Christian libertie: and that all things be cleane to those that be cleane. Finally, that godly men may well vse that which wicked haue abused, howsoeuer vngodly.

They bring the ministerie into contempte: Onely with you, and suche as you (by your continuall crying out agaynst them) haue deluded: contemners of good orders, lawes, and statutes, are to be seuerely punished for their contempt. Good lawes, orders, and statutes are not to be altered or dissolued, bicause by suche as forget their due∣ties, they are contemned.

They offende the weake, and encourage the obstinate: Those that be offended with them, thinke themselues moste strong, and glorie therin with condemning of others. The obstinate be encouraged throughe the schismes, & contentions, that you trouble the Church, and slaunder the Gospell with: which one day you will vnderstande, if in tyme you doe not repent.

T. C. Page. 60. Sect. 2.

The rest of that whiche followeth in this matter, is nothing else, but eyther that whiche hath bin oftenti〈1 line〉〈1 line〉es repeated, or else reprochefull words, or vniust accusations of contempt of Magi∣strates, withou〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 any proofe at all, and therefore are suche as eyther are answered, or which I will not voutchs〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e to answere, especially seeing I meane not to (*) giue reproche and reuiling for re∣uiling: and seeing that I haue before protested of our humble submission, and louing feare or re∣uerence, whiche we beare to the Prince, and those whiche are appoynted Magistrates vnder∣neathe hir.

Io. Whitgifte.

This is a shorte answere, to say you will not voutchsafe to answere. What reproch∣full wordes, or vniust accusations are héere vttered by me? excepte this offende you, that I saye, contemners of good orders, lawes, and statutes, are to be seuerely punished for their contempt. Good lawes, orders, and sta∣tutes are not to be altered and dissolued, bicause by suche as forget their dueties, they be contemned. If this cast you into that choler, I can not mende it: you must beare with me when I speake the truthe.

Whether of vs two haue more offended in reprochings and reuilings, bicause we are both partiall in our owne causes, let vs referre it to the indifferent Readers. How farre you are from performing that in déede to the Magistrates, that you protest in worde, is in another place declared.

Chap. 7. the twelfth Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 60. Sect. 3.

And therefore I will conclude, that forsomuche as the ceremonies of Antichristianitie, are not, nor can not be, the fittest to set foorthe the Gospell, and for that they are occasions of fall to

some, of hinderaunce to other some, of griefe and alienation of mindes vnto others (the contrarie of all which ought to be considered in establishing of things indifferent in the Churche) therefore neyther is this apparell fittest for the minister of the Gospell, and if it were, yet considering the incommodities that come of the vse of it, it should be remoued.

Io. Whitgifte.

This conclusion consisteth wholly vpon false principles, whereof though some of them haue bin before spoken, yet not one of them proued: for tryall wherof I referr〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 the Reader to that, which we haue bothe written of this matter.

The Admonition.

The twelfth. Then as God gaue vtterance (b) they preached the worde onely: Now they reade Homelyes, Articles, Iniunctions. &c.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 62. Sect. 3.

Heere you quote in the margente the sixte of Iohn, verse. 38. where Christ sayth, that he came dovvne from heauen not to doe his ovvne vvill, but the vvill of his father that sente him. Likewyse the twelfth of Iohn, verse. 49. where also he saythe, that he hathe not spoken of him selfe, but the father that sent him, gaue him commaunde∣ment vvhat he shoulde say, and what he shoulde speake. And the first to the Corinthians. 11. Chapter, verse. 23. where S. Paule sayth, that he receyued of the Lorde that vvhiche he deliuered vnto them. No man denieth but that the worde of God onely ought to be preached, and that as God giueth vtterance. But doe you meane that we may not studie for our sermons, or that we may speake nothing but the ve∣ry texte of Scripture, without amplifying or expounding the same? when I knowe your meaning heerein, you shall vnderstande more of my minde. In the meane tyme, this I am sure of, that the Ho∣milies appoynted to be read in the Churche, are learned, godly, agreable to Gods worde, and more effectuall to edification, than a number of your Sermons, whiche consiste in wordes onely, and entreate of little else, but of cappe, surplesse. &c. Archbishop, Lorde Bishop. &c. the ende whereof is not edification, but contention. Homilies read in the Churche haue alwayes beene commendable, and vsuall euen from the beginning, looke Augustine, Chrysostome and others: and why maye not Articles and Iniunctions, beeing collected to the setting foorthe of true Religion and good orders in the Churche be read there also as in a moste meete place? But I perceyue you are enimies to reading, bicause you loue so wel to heare your selues talking, I will say no worse.

T. C. Pag. 60. Sect. 4.

You know they allowe studying for sermons, and amplifying & expounding of the scriptures, and why then doe you aske? But by this question you would haue your Reader thinke, or at the least haue the Authors of the Admonition in suspicion, that they lyked not of studie for sermons. God make vs more careful of the good name of our brethren, than by suche light and vngrounded suspicions, nay without any suspicion, nay, contrarie to that which is dayly seene & hard, to rayse vp suche slanderous reportes of them. But Homilies are smally beholding vnto you, which to proue that they may be read in the Churche, alleage that Augustine and Chrysostome made sermons in their Churches: for that which we call a sermon, they called of the Greeke worde an Homilie, so that the argument is, that Augustine and Chrysostome preached sermons or homilies in their Churches, therefore we may reade Homilies in ours. But peraduenture you haue some better thing to say for them afterwarde.

Io. Whitgifte.

I haue heard some fautors of theirs earnestly reason agaynst studying for sermons, and it is not long since it was almoste in playne termes in the Pulpit preached. I thinke they studie for their sermons, but howe diligently they studie, or whether they would séeme to studie, or no, I knowe not: the wordes of the Admonition are very suspicious.

That whiche I speake of Augustine and Chrysostome aptly serueth for my pur∣pose: for althoughe they were Augustines and Chrysostomes sermons, yet in that they haue bothe committed them to writing, and lefte them to their posteritie, it ar∣gueth that they thought them to be very profitable for the Church: Neyther do I sée any cause why they should rather nowe be thought vnlawfull to be read, than they were then to be preached: but yet one thing we may note, that bothe Augustine and Chrysostome writte their Homilies or sermons, and therefore it may be that they did also sometime reade them in the Churche.

Notes

• h Esa. 30. 22.
• Cursed thigs consecrated to God.
• Gedeon sacri∣ficed an oxe consecrated to Baal.
• (*)

  Here you dis∣port your selfe, with your owne imagination.
• (a)

  No such pur∣gation to be found in that place.
• Things dedi∣cated to idolls may be con∣uerted to gods honour.
• Iosu. 6. ver. 24
• No man 〈◊〉〈◊〉 defile the na∣ture & form〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 of things.
• Bucer.
• Ceremonies do not edify of themselues but tend to e∣dification.
• Bucer.
• The apparell doth tend to edifying for three causes.
• (*)

  They that are driuen away 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉or that cause do giue suspition of Anabaptisme.
• T. 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉. imagi∣neth suche a perfection as is not to be 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ounde.
• P. Martyr.
• Master Mar〈1 line〉〈1 line〉yrs words pe〈1 line〉〈1 line〉uer. ted▪
• (a)

  Here you play with a fea∣ther.
• (b)

  You vnder∣stand not this to∣picall place: for it ho〈1 line〉〈1 line〉deth in those 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉hings on ly, quae {per} 〈◊〉〈◊〉 ali∣quid 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ac. unt.
• (c)

  An easie kind of answering.
• Meere ciuill things may haue signifi∣cation.
• The forme of apparell may put a man in minde of 〈◊〉〈◊〉 dutie.
• T. C. refu∣seth y^e iudge∣ment of lear∣ned men, whē he cannot o∣therwise an∣were them. In mens wri tings the cir∣cumstances of time and place must be distin guished.
• How apparell is a signe of euill, and how otherwise.
• (*)

  Vntruth.
• Externall things may be both good and euill in di∣uers respects. The diuers 〈◊〉〈◊〉 vsed b〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 T. C. in answering.
• Non causa procausa.
• (*)

  It is as sone sayd but not so truely, bycause the one ret〈1 line〉〈1 line〉y∣neth order, and the other brea∣keth it.
• 1. Cor. 11.
• Zuinglius ad. Balt.
• Pag. 19. &c.
• Num. 〈◊〉〈◊〉.
• 1. Cor. 11.
• Caluine.
• (*)

  T〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ue, for 〈◊〉〈◊〉 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉aue 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 for one.
• (b)

  Iohn. 6. 38. Ioh. 12. 49. 1. Co. 11. 23
• Scriptures may be ampli∣fied.
• Homilies red in the Church are commen∣dable.