The defense of the aunsvvere to the Admonition against the replie of T.C. By Iohn VVhitgift Doctor of Diuinitie. In the beginning are added these. 4. tables. 1 Of dangerous doctrines in the replie. 2 Of falsifications and vntruthes. 3 Of matters handled at large. 4 A table generall.

The causes why they refuse the apparell, examined.

Chap. 1. the fyrst Diuision.

T. C. Page. 52. Sect.. 3.

The cappe, the surplis, and tippet, are not the greatest matters we striue for, whych notwith∣standyng hath bene enformed to the Churches beyonde sea, to the ende that the iudgementes of some myghte be the easlyer had agaynst vs. Howbeit we thinke it an attyre vnmeete for a mini∣ster of the Gospell to weare, and the Surplis especially more than the other two, bycause suche hurtefull Ceremonies are so muche more daungerous, as they doe approche nearer the seruice▪ or worship of God,

Io. Whitgifte.

Yet in the beginning suche was youre pretence: neyther was there any thing else that you contended for: as it is well knowne to all men that had to deale with you, or hearde of you. I am certainly perswaded, that if the Churches beyonde sea did fully vnderstande your procéeding, together with the state of thys Churche of Englande, that they woulde as bitterly write againste you, and as willingly con∣demne you, as euer they dyd the Anabaptistes. But to your reasons agaynste the apparell.

Chap. 1. the second Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 52. Sect. 4.

The causes why wee are lothe to meddle with them, are not as many are borne in hande, by∣cause that we thinke any pollution so to sticke to the things themselues, as that the wearyng of them had any suche power to pollute and make vncleane the vsers of them: Neyther yet only bi∣cause the Papistes haue superstitiously vsed them, but bycause they hauing bene abhominably a∣vnsed by them, haue no vse nor profyte in those thinges or endes, wherein and wherevnto they are nowe vsed. And further, that they are also hurtful, beyng monuments of Idolatrie, where as to bring them in and establishe them, it behoueth that there shoulde some manyfeste profite of them appeare. For it is not inough to saye, it is indifferent in the owne nature, Ergo meete to be doone: but as the circumstaunces of the tymes and persons, and profite or hurte of our bre∣thren doe require or not require, so muste it be doone or not be done. For in these things whiche are called indifferent, God will haue the vse of them to be measured, that it be referred fyrste to his glorie, then to the profite of others.

Io. Whitgifte.

It is true that is commonly sayde: that suche as be in errour neyther long a∣grée with other, neyther yet with themselues. Some of you haue taught, that pollu∣tion dothe sticke to the thyngs them selues, as that the wearyng of them had power to pollute and make vncleane the wearoes: and a number be caryed away with that doctrine: else why do they refuse to come to our Churches, our sermons, yea to kéep vs cōpanie, or to salute vs? why spitte they in oure faces, reuile vs in the streates, and shewe suche lyke villanie vnto vs, and that onely bycause of our apparell? Is not all this a ma∣nifest declaration that they thinke vs therewith to be so polluted, that what so euer wee speake or doe is polluted, in lyke maner, euen the worde of God and his sacra∣mentes? and where haue they learned this, but of you and others your partners? Lykewyse what was the chiefe grounde of this opinion, howe didde you moue the people to this extremitie, and what haue they yet to speake in the defense of theyr excessiue raging? forsoothe that thys geare came from the Pope, was inuented by

Antichriste, and therefore abhominable, and not to be vsed. This onely reason they haue, and this is the common place that you haue hitherto bette vpon. But nowe béeing conuinced by manyfest reasons, and seeing the manyfolde absurdities, that wayteth vpon suche assertions, you passe ouer the matter as though you had neuer bene stayned with it, and saye the causes why you are lothe to meddle with them, are not as many are borne in hand. &c. So that in effecte this is nowe by you confessed, that those thyngs whyche the Papistes haue superstitiously vsed, yea whyche they haue abhominably a∣bused, if they haue any vse or profyte en those thyngs or endes, wherein and wherevnto they are nowe vsed, be lawfull, and not to be refused. And therefore wée muste (I thynke) haue no more to doe wyth thys Argumente: The Pope inuented them, Ergo, they are not to bee vsed: but thys muste bee the question, whether they haue anye vse or profite in those thynges or endes, wherein or wherevnto they are nowe vsed. And this shifte is in∣uented to take awaye all obiections, whiche maye bée of Churches, of Bells, of Pulpits, and suche lyke.

But let vs procéede to the reasons. You haue not yet proued that they haue no vse, or that they profyte not in those things and endes, wherin and wherevnto they are nowe vsed: and therefore I will take that for no reason as yet: althoughe I haue sufficientely an∣swered vnto it, where I haue spoken of Ceremonies, and in this treatise also that fo∣loweth of this matter.

You saye further that they are also hurtefull, beeyng monumentes of Idolatrie. &c. Whereby you acknowledge that notwithstanding they bée monumentes of ido∣latrie, yet maye they be broughte in and established if some manyfeste profite of them appeare, so that this also is graunted, that monuments of idolatrie may be broughte in and established vpon this condition, if they be profitable.

That which followeth in this portion of your replie touching things indifferent, I consent vnto, with this prouiso, that it is not euery mans part in the Church to iudge and determine, what the circumstance of the times and persons maketh profitable or hurtfull (for then should we neuer be quiet) but theirs onely, to whome the gouern∣ment of the Church is committed: to the whiche prouiso if you do consent, we are in this matter thus farre agréed.

Chap. 1. the. 3. Diuision.

T. C. Page. 52. Sect. 4. 5.

Nowe, that they are not profitable and hurtfull, it also may appeare, if we consider them by all the kinds of men in the realme.

The Papistes are eyther stubborne or weake, and in respect of both these, they cannot be but hurtfull. The weake I call those that haue made some steppe from poperie to the gospell, and of whome there is good hope that they may be fully gotten to the Gospell: but these are harmed by the vse of these vestiments, for they take occasion of falling at them, bycause they thinke that the sacra∣ments get reuerence by them, and the ministerie is commended by such apparel wearing, and thinke that the sacraments want something of that they should haue, if they be not vsed: Wherevpon are hard oftētimes these voyces: I will not communicate vnlesse he weare a surplis. But this offence and occasion of falling is confirmed by the vse of these garments, therefore in respect of suche men, they are hurtfull.

Io. Whitgifte.

Al this is spoken without proofe, and it is very vntrue that the weake Papist is hurt in any respect by wearing this apparell: they take such garments as things pertey∣ning to comelinesse and order, and so ought they to do. Neyther did I euer in my life heare that these garments hindred one iote any from comming to the gospell. But admitte all this were true (as it is most vntrue) why should it not aswell by doctrine and teaching be remoued, as other superstitious opinions be in these things, whiche you can be content still to remaine.

These voyces, I will not communicate, vnlesse he weare a surplis, may sometimes come vpon iust cause, whē the good subiect séeth the minister which ought to be an example

of obedience, stubburnly and wilfully shewe example to the contrarie: and somtime it may come of waywardnesse when men be disposed to contende: but surely I doe not thinke that any man, whiche is persuaded to communicate with vs in the Sacramentes, can thinke that they be eyther the better or the worse for the exter∣nall habite of the minister. They be dissuaded from farre greater matters than that, and therefore it is not to be thought that they will sticke in such trifles. But ad〈1 line〉〈1 line〉t it were so, is it not as greate an errour to thinke that the Sacramentes bée pollu∣ted with the apparell, as it is to thinke, that they wante somethyng, whiche they should haue, if the apparell be lacking? Yes truly: and therfore to take away bothe the errours, I thinke it moste conuenient, the apparell be vsed, and these errours by doctrine to be confuted.

Chap. 1. the fourth Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 52. Sect. 6.

Agayne, although I haue knowledge, and knowe that the wearing of a surplisse is lawful for me, yet an other, whiche hath not knowledge, is by my example edi〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ied or strengthened to weare a Surp〈1 line〉〈1 line〉sse, wherof he can tel no ground why he should weare it, and so sinneth agaynst his con∣〈1 line〉〈1 line〉: and for this cause S. Paule concludeth, that that which a man may 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉o in respect of him selfe, may not be done, and is not lawfull to be done in respect of other.

Io. Whitgifte.

If to weare a surplis, were an offence to the weake, or if there were not manifest groundes in Scripture, (suche I meane as commaunde obedience to superiours) to proue the wearing of the surplis to be lawfull, then were it some thyng that you saye. But seeing suche onely be offended therewith as accompte themselues most strong, and condemne other of infirmitie: séeing also that obedience to Magisirates in such〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 indifferent things, hath manifest groundes in scripture, and to doubt of obedience in suche matters, is in eff〈1 line〉〈1 line〉cte, to plucke the Magistrate his sworde out of his hand, this reason hath not so muche as any similitude of probabilitie in it. Is there any mini∣ster of the Churche, (for of suche only is the Surplis required) that will rather bée moued to weare a surplis, by the example of an other, than by the consideration of his duetie towardes the lawe, and 〈◊〉〈◊〉 of the Churche, by due authoritie in a lawfull and indifferent thing appointed? you might make the same reason serue to plucke downe the Churche, the Pulpit, the Belles, yea to ouerthrowe all orders, and all lawes in things indifferent, whiche all haue the same grounde of obedience that the surplis hath.

In the Conf〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ssion of the Dutche Churche in London, whiche is allowed by the Churche of GENEVA, and diuers other reformed Churches (whereof I haue made mention before) it is thus written of things indifferent: Things otherwyse indifferent of themselues, after a sorte chaunge their nature, when by some comma〈1 line〉〈1 line〉nde∣ment they are eyther commaunded or forbidden, bycause neyther they can bee omitted contrarie to the commaundement, if they be once commaunded neyther done, contrarie to the prohibition, if they be prohibited, as it appeareth in the Ceremoniall lawe. So that the grounde why a man shoulde weare the surplis (béeing an indifferente thyng as you co〈1 line〉〈1 line〉fesse it to be) can not be vnknowne to any, but suche as know not the ground of their obedience towardes authoritie.

It is true, that in some things indifferent a man must haue respect to the weake∣nesse of his brother, and absteyne from doing that, whiche he might lawfully doe, ra∣ther than to off〈1 line〉〈1 line〉nde his brother. But that is in suche indifferente thynges, as bée not by any lawe commaunded or forbidden, but lefte frée to euery man to do, or not to doe: As, if to weare the Surplis, were by no lawe commaunded, but lefte to eue∣ry mannes owne disposition: then surely if there were any weake offended with the wearyng of it, I oughte to absteyne for the weake hys sake: but béeyng

by lawfull authoritie commaunded to weare it, if I should refuse so to do, I shoulde offend against the Magistrate, and against God, who by his Apostle hath giuen thys commaundement, omnis anima potestatibus. &c. let euery soule be subi〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ct to the higher po∣wer &c. which is to be vnderstanded in all things, that are not against God. And ther∣fore if any man be offended with me in so doing, the offence is taken it is not giuen.

Chap. 1. the fifth Diuision.

T. C. Page. 52. Sect. vlt.

Agayne for the stubborne Papists, they take herevpon occasion to speake euill of, and to bl〈1 line〉〈1 line〉s∣pheme the truth of the gospell, saying that our religion cannot stand by itselfe, vnlesse it lea〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e vpon the staffe of their ceremonies, and perswade themselues that those were very well deuised by their Popes, that they that are their 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉nimies to their religion, cannot be without. And herv〈1 line〉〈1 line〉on they 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ake occasion to hope that their other trumper〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e and baggage will in the 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉nd come in againe, which ca〈1 line〉〈1 line〉∣seth them to be more frosen in their wickednesse, and shut their eares vnto the tru〈1 line〉〈1 line〉h, which possibly they would heare, if all hope of bringing in of their Poperie were cut off.

Io. Whitgifte.

This is but a mere fancy: for first, it was brought into the Church before theyr Popes whome they hold vpon, inuaded that seate, as it is afterwards declared. Se∣condly, they be not matters that they make any greate accompt of. Thirdly, they know fullwell, that we could be without them: and that we (but only for obedience sake) do not much estéeme of them. Wherefore this is an argument framed only vp∣pon light coniectures. But beit all this were true, shall we for their fancie or fonde iudgement refuse to do that, which is lawfull, which we may d〈1 line〉〈1 line〉, and which we are bound to do? Or in making orders for the Church, must we enquire what their opi∣niō wil be? Then plucke downe Churches▪ &c. for of them they make a greater reck〈1 line〉〈1 line〉∣ning, than they do of the surplisse, or any other such like matter. I thinke verely that there is not one Papist in England that doth take occasion vpon any thing reteyned in this Church, to hope that their other trumperie and baggage will in the end come in 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉gayne: neyther is there any cause in respect of them, why they should so hope: and if they do, yet I doubte not but that they shall hoppe without that hope. But a man may ima∣gine if he will that there is a man in the Moone, with a tree on his backe. &c. and you cannot let him.

Chap. 1. the. 6. Diuision.

T. C. Page. 53. Lin. 5.

And let it be obserued that throughout the realme there are none that make such clamours, and outcries, and complaints for these ceremonies, as they and those, that they suborne. They pretende I confe〈1 line〉〈1 line〉se, the Queenes maiestres Imunctions, and 〈◊〉〈◊〉 vnto them, but who is so blinde as seeth not that they haue another meaning. For I appeale vnto the consciences of all that knowe them, whether they do it for any obedience towards hi〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 maiestie, whose death should be a thousand times better newes vnto them, than hir graces mariage.

Io. Whitgifte.

The more is the pittie, that they should haue suche i〈1 line〉〈1 line〉st cause of clamoring, and that those which should teach them obedience to God and their Prince, be examples to the contrary. A subtill and craftie Papist wil be glad of any cause of quarelling: the more circumspect therefore ought the minister to be, in taking héede lest he giue iust cause of the same. But there be honest, godly, and zelous men also that cannot abide s〈1 line〉〈1 line〉che disorder and contempt, whome peraduenture you would gladly straine with the note of Papistrie, as your manner is: and for my part I thinke it to be the part of all duti∣full subi〈1 line〉〈1 line〉cts to kéepe lawes and orders appoynted, and to sée other kéepe them also, if they be therevnto called.

Surely he that is a Papist indéede, cannot wish well to hir 〈◊〉〈◊〉, but if he com∣municate with vs in the sacraments, heare the word preached, and come to our Chur∣ches, I will thinke and hope the best of him. But if he refuse so to do (as there be di∣〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ers such) so long as he so continueth, I must count him an enemie to religion, to the

Churche, and to the Prince, be he Papist, Anabaptist, or whatsoeuer. For he that in hart and in déede misliketh the religiō, cannot like wel of such as mainteine the same.

Chap. 1. the. 7. Diuision.

T. C. Page. 53. Sect. 1.

There are also numbers of those, which haue all Antichristianitie in such detestation, that they cannot abide the least scrappe of it, and when they see the ministers weare them, they are greeued in their harts, and they beginne somewhat to feare, least this communicating with the Papists in ap∣parell, should make some way to those which vse them, the easier to admitte other things, when they should be likewise commaunded. And these brethrens minds are not to be lightly greeued, and the ministers, if they thinke to profite them, must cut away all occasion, whereby they may haue an euill opinion of them.

Io. Whitgifte.

M. Caluine in his booke against the Anabaptists after he had spoken some thing a∣gainst the Puritanes and Donatists, hath this saying worthy to be noted: Here ther∣fore we may be admonished, that when as vnder the pretence of the study of perfection, we can tolerate no imperfection, eyther in the body or in the members of the Church, that then the Deuill dothe make vs swell with pride, and dothe seduce vs by hypocrisie, that he might prouoke vs to forsake the flocke of Christ: knowing assuredly that he dothe obteyne the victory, when he draweth vs from the same. For seeinge yther remission of sinnes or health, is in no other place, although we outwardly beare the countenance of an Angelicall conuersation, yet if we do with such boldnesse separate ourselues from the Christian felow∣ship, we are become Deuils. If thys be to be feared in such as shew thys prepostorous zeale agaynste that whiche is blameworthy, what shall we thinke of those that vn∣der the pretence of zeale deface the minister, and the word that he preacheth, for doing that which is lawfull, and the whiche of duetie he ought to do. If the minister shoulde applie himselfe to please the people, and suche especially of whome you séeme to speake in this place, his greatest study had néede to be how to transforme himselfe dayly into a new shape. But most certaine it is that you study to much to please the people: And that is the occasion of so many nouelties, whereby they are most com∣monly delighted, est natura hominis nouitatis auida.

Chap. 1. the eight Diuision.

T. C. Page. 53. Sect. 2.

Seing that therefore this kind of Ceremonies in apparell, harden the harts of the Papistes, and cause them to be the stiffer in thir poperie, hinder the weake from profyting in the knowledge of the Gospell, greeue the minds of the godly, are occasion of an euill opinion vnto them of their mi∣nisters, we thinke that these ceremonies are to be remoued, as not only not profitable (which they ought to be) but hurtfull, if not to the ministers themselues that vse them, yet to their people to whome they are commaunded by God to haue regard vnto, in these thinges that are indifferent in their owne natures. Now I will come to that, which you set downe.

Io. Whitgifte.

Seing that not one word of that is true: and if it were, yet the erroure and false per∣swasion of the minde rather to be refourmed, than relented vnto, I sée no cause why thys kind of apparell (being commaunded) ought not to be vsed, except you will leaue to euery man libertie to do what him list, or suffer the fansies of some to rule Prince, Councell, Byshops, Church and all.

Notes

• This assertion is contrary to your practise. Monumentes of idolatrie may be vsed if they haue any profite.
• The apparell not refused bycause the Papists vse it.
• Tract. 2.
• A 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉.
• The weake are not offen∣ded, but they which accōpte them selues most strong.
• Things in∣differēt chāge their nature be〈1 line〉〈1 line〉g cōman∣ded or forbid∣den, Confess. Ec〈1 line〉〈1 line〉les. Belgiog〈1 line〉〈1 line〉r∣man.
• In what kind of 〈◊〉〈◊〉 thinges we 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ughte to haue a resp〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ct of the we〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ke.
• Rom. 1〈1 line〉〈1 line〉.
• The clamors of Papists should mo〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 the ministers to more cir∣cumspection.
• The puritie which can a∣bide no imper fection, is diuelish.
• ☞