A replie to Iesuit Fishers answere to certain questions propou[n]ded by his most gratious Matie: King Iames By Francis White D: of Div· deane of Carlile, chaplaine to his Matie. Hereunto is annexed, a conference of the right: R:B: of St Dauids wth the same Iesuit*

TO THE READER.

IT is now two yeeres, since I was first called, by my Lord Duke of Buckingham, to conferre with an Honourable Person, who as then began to make Reuolt from the true Faith and Religion professed in our Church. By this Occasion, J entred into a Disputation with one M^r Iohn Fisher, a Jesuit, the same per∣son which was the Author of the two Bookes, against which my younger Brother, D^r Iohn White, wrote his Way to the true Church, and the Defence of the same. After my first Conference with the aforesaid Jesuit, ensued (not long after) a Second, at which his most ex∣cellent Maiestie himselfe was present. The Cause (as J afterwards perceiued) of his Pre∣sence, was a gracious desire to recouer the fore∣said Honorable Person out of the Fishers Net. Then there followed a Third Conference, be∣tweene a most Learned and Reuerend Bishop, and the said Jesuit, intended to the same purpose.

Lastly, his Royall Maiestie, in his deepe Judge∣ment, hauing obserued by the former Conferences, and especially by the second, that our Aduersa∣ries are cunning and subtile, in eluding our Ar∣guments brought against them, but of no strength (especially in particular Questions) when they come to the 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, and confirmation of their owne Tenet; He was pleased to haue Nine Questions of Controuersie propounded to the Je∣suit, that hee might in writing manifest the Grounds, and Arguments, whereupon the Po∣pish Faith in those Points was builded. For his Maiestie, in his owne Judgement and Experi∣ence, knew most certainely, That Romists are not able to confirme 〈◊〉〈◊〉 Faith, either by sacred Scripture, or by antient Tradition. And there∣fore their manner is, when they dispute with Pro∣testants viua voce to auoid other Controuersies, and to set vp their rest vpon the Questions of the Visibilitie and Authoritie of the Church. There∣fore the better to discouer their weakenesse, and to plucke them out of their Fox-hole of Personall Succession, and Vistbilitie, the King imposed this Taske, of writing vpon the Nine Questions. Besides, his Maieftie had experience of the mfaithfull dealing of Pontificians, when they make Relation of such things as passe by word of mouth onely, in priuate Disputations: and hee well vnderstood, 〈◊〉〈◊〉 the Cretising Jesuit had dealt with a 〈◊〉〈◊〉 Bishop, and with my selfe:

For had wee beene Schoole-Boyes of thirteene yeeres old, he could not haue made vs seeme more childish and vnskilfull than hee did, dispersing Hundreds of Papers, to his owne prayse, and our disgrace. Wherefore it was necessarie, that some publique Worke, containing the Grounds and Ar∣guments of his part, and the Answere and Re∣plie on ours, might be extant; wherein neither his nor our Yea and Nay, should take place, sed res cum re, causa cum causa, &c. the weight of matter on each part, might testifie for it selfe. Now who could command this to be done, but the King himselfe? who therefore made the for∣mer proposition of Nine Questions to the Jesuit, that the World might see the vttermost of his strength; and againe, they might haue meanes to iudge rightly of our Cause, and of our procee∣dings in handling the same. Mine owne pur∣pose at the first was, to haue published in Print a Narration of my two Disputations, and (as farre as my Memorie would serue me) I had to that end collected in writing the summe of those Conferences. But obseruing afterwards, by ano∣ther Disputation which was printed, that our Ad∣uersaries will perpetually tumultuate, and accuse of falsitie, all things which passe not vnder their owne hands; knowing also, that my selfe could not exactly remember all passages of the Jesuits Dis∣putation and mine, there being not a word written at the time when wee disputed; J deferred the

printing thereof, vntill this greater Worke was finished. The Aduersarie in this Answere, which his Friend deliuered the King, hath disputed Eight of the Questions propounded by his Maiestie, and he declineth the Ninth, for Reasons well knowne to the World; and in stead of a Disputation, he passeth ouer that Article of deposing Kings, with a Rethoricall Declama∣tion. But before the Nine Questions, hee pla∣ceth a large Disputation (prouided, no doubt, aforehand, and expecting onely a prosperous Wind of Occasion, to send it abroad) touching the Rule of Faith, concerning Scripture and Tra∣dition, the Notes of the Church, &c. Then, to counterpoise the Kings Nine Articles, he char∣geth our Church with Nine remarkable Errors (as he accounteth them.) Jn the former part of his Tractate, is contained the summe and sub∣stance of the first Conference betweene him and me, before the Lord Keeper, and the Lord Duke of Buckingham. Jn the Questions of Jmages, Transubstantiation, & Communion in both kinds, is contained also the summe of the second Con∣ference: but there are many Additions in each Question; and hee handleth matters more exactly in his written Worke, than hee did in his priuate Disputations. J haue examined his whole Trea∣tise, and answered euery passage thereof, printing his Worke verbatim with mine owne. The World must take notice, that I am a constant Preacher,

in a Pastorall Charge, and therefore J could not ose such expedition as other men may, which imploy their whole time & strength in writing. Besides, my Worke being finished before Michaelmas last, bath bin long in Printing, by reason of the number of Quotations in the Margen. These Citations are for this cause word for word out of the Authors, placed in my Booke, that the Worke may be more vsefull, especially to such persons as want the benefit of Libraries, and much Reading, themselues. J haue with as much diligence as morally a Scholler can vse, collected my Testimo∣nies out of the very Authors themselues. The Rea∣der shall not need to feare, or distrust, vnlesse where the Printer hath made Escapes (which cannot al∣wayes be auoided in a Worke of this nature.) And I must entreat the Reader, where he obserueth any Error in the Print, to correct the same with his Pen. Neither must the vnlearneder sort be offended, if they light vpon some hard passages, because the mat∣ter it selfe is many times very abstruse; and disputing with Aduersaries which are Sophisters, I am compel∣led to vse Schollasticke tearmes, and to turne their owne Weapons vpon themselues: But so farre as I am able, I haue endeuored to be perspicuous. Of my Ad∣uersaries I request nothing at all (for it is in vaine:) But if they reply, it shall be for their greater honour to set downe my Text, as I haue done theirs. And they shall but beat the ayre, vnlesse they confirme the maine Branches of their Doctrine by Principles of Diuine Reuelation, because Humane Testimonie is

not sufficient to myse Articles of Faith. And I rest as∣sured, that each intelligent person will obserue by rea∣ding this Worke, that the Aduerfarie (notwithstan∣ding he is well verst in Controuersie, and hath in sub∣stance said as much as his Cause will permit) yet he is deficient of Diuine proofe in euery Article, and farre more specious in eluding our Arguments, than happie in confirming his owne. But if it be certaine that Popish Faith wanteth the Suffrage of Diuine Testimonie, then we haue sufficient cause to reiect their Doctrine. And if wee could not demonstrate, that the Articles which they maintaine against vs, were contra verbum Dei, contradictorie to the Word of God; yet if by deficiencie of proofe on their side, it appeare, they be extra & praeter, without or besides the Word of God, they cannot be the obiect of Diuine Faith. Lastly, I entreat all, of our part, to prayse God for the benefit of true Religion, maintay∣ned in our Church, to auoid Contention among them∣selues; for in all Ages the same hath proued pernici∣ous and scandalous. Also, to be as deuout in the way of Pietie, as Aduersaries seeme to be in the way of Su∣perstition. And because it hath euer beene an Honor to our Profession, to be loyall and obedient to higher Powers, let this be still an indelible Caracter of euery true Brittish Protestant, to reioyce in the peaceable and happy Gouernment of his most sacred Maiestie; & let vs all, so far as it is possible, by our feruent votes and prayers, striue to adde encrease to his dayes, and happines. Far be it from any of our part, in their secret

thoughts, to misconster his actions, or to entertaine the least iealousie of any abatement of his wonted loue to true Religion, planted among vs: for assu∣redly he vnderstands the Mysterie of Poperie too well, to thinke any otherwise of it, than formerly he hath done; and no subiect can lay the Cause of Re∣ligion more neere their heart, than his most Reli∣gious Maiestie doth. And we haue all great cause to glorifie God, who hath blessed our Church with such a wise and constant Defender of the Faith. Now my Conscience vrgeth me to deliuer thus much concerning his Maiestie, because the Aduer∣sarie, in some passages of his ensuing Treatise (as by reading you shall obserue) rhetoriseth suspitiou∣sly, intending (no doubt) to raise some iealousie in credulous minds, contrarie to this which I haue spo∣ken. My selfe therefore, through the gracious Cle∣mencie of his Maiestie, being admitted to approach so neere, as to be an eare-witnesse of his admirable Iudgement and constant Resolution in point of Re∣ligion, and hereby certainely knowing, that the Je∣suit departing from the King, added no improue∣ment to his Popish Cause, but vanished with foile and disgrace; J trust J shall incurre no Censure from men iudicious, and louers of Truth, for cer∣tifying that, which J obserued by mine owne expe∣rience. And thus commending my Labors to the blessing of the Almightie, to the examination of my Superiors in the Church, and to the perusall of those which desire to read them, I addresse my selfe to the ensuing Disputation.

April. 10. 1624.