A reply to a pretended Christian plea for the anti-Chistian [sic] Church of Rome: published by Mr. Francis Iohnson a⁰. 1617 Wherin the weakness of the sayd plea is manifested, and arguments alleaged for the Church of Rome, and baptisme therein, are refuted; by Henry Ainsworth. Anno 1618.

Objections against the Theses of the Sacraments and the solutions of them, by D. Zach. Vrsinus: in publik dis∣putation Anno. 1567.

Object. 4. against part of the tenth position. The papists sacraments are doen without regeneration. And yet they are Sa∣craments. Therfore they may be without (mens) conversion (to God.)

Answ. The second proposition may be denyed, touching them that are not converted. For to such, the sacraments are no sacra∣ments, that is, signes of grace; especially seing they turne them in∣to mere idols. But they are made sacraments unto them, that is, signes of grace, when (the Papists) are converted. And if they ne∣ver be converted, they never become sacraments unto them.

Instance to an absurditie. They that deprave the wordes and the forme of the institution, they overthrow the substance of bap∣tisme. The Papists doe the first, therfore also the latter. Wherup∣on their baptisme is no baptisme; and we which were baptised in the papacie, must be baptised againe.

Answ. For the first, they doe overthrow the substance of bap∣tisme,

namely to themselves, and to those which 〈◊〉〈◊〉 unto 〈◊〉〈◊〉 and are not converted but not unto those, which acknovvledging their errours are converted, and doe joyne themselves unto the Church of Christ.

Object. 6. against the twelft position. That which brings con∣demnation▪ brings no fruit▪ The unworthy▪ usurpation of the sa∣crament brings condemnation▪ by the 11▪ position. Therefore it brings no fruit.

Answ. I grant all, before conversion: but after it, the unwor∣thy usurpation, becometh worthy.

Jnstance. Condemnation foloweth not conversion. The fruit of the sacrament received unworthily, is condemnation, by posi∣tion 11. Therfore the fruit foloweth not those that are converted.

Answ. We grant it, touching condemnation. But we speak here of the fruit of the sacrament unworthily received, which be∣fore conversion vvas condemnation, because of the unworthy re∣ceiving: but after conversion, it is changed into a good and saving fruit.

Hitherto Ursinus. Whereunto I will adde this saying of Mr. Calvin, in his 111. Sermon upon Deuteronomie, (on Deut. 18. 22.) And what (sayth he) is to be sayd of their sacraments? Jt is evi∣dent that they be mere witcheries in the Popedome, so as Jesus Christ is driven a great way off by them: and men make idols of the visible signes and liveless creatures, and Sa••a•• hath so imbrued the wretched world with his illusions, that men▪ are become stark beasts.