A counterblast to M. Hornes vayne blaste against M. Fekenham Wherein is set forthe: a ful reply to M. Hornes Answer, and to euery part therof made, against the declaration of my L. Abbat of Westminster, M. Fekenham, touching, the Othe of the Supremacy. By perusing vvhereof shall appeare, besides the holy Scriptures, as it vvere a chronicle of the continual practise of Christes Churche in al ages and countries, fro[m] the time of Constantin the Great, vntil our daies: prouing the popes and bishops supremacy in ecclesiastical causes: and disprouing the princes supremacy in the same causes. By Thomas Stapleton student in diuinitie.

The .29. Chapter. Of Lewys the .4. Emperour.

Stapleton.

WE haue neede Maister Horne of a newe Iudge Marcelline,* 1.1 that maie by his interlocutorie sen∣tence, bring you, as he did the Donatistes from your wilde wide wandering, home againe to your matter. Let it be (for the time if ye will needes so haue it) that the Emperours Authoritie dothe not depende of the Pope, yea and that Pope Iohn the .22. was also for his owne priuate person an Heretique. And then I beseeche you adde your wise conclusion. Ergo Maister Feckenham must take a corporall Othe, that the Queene is Supreme Heade of the Churche of England.

Now on the other side, if we can proue againste you, that euen this your owne Supreame Head, Lewys, for spi∣rituall and Ecclesiasticall matters, agnised the Popes and the Generall Councelles Authoritie, to be Superiour to the Authoritie of the Emperoure and of all other Princes, and that they all must be obediente and submitte them sel∣ues therevnto, then shal Maister Fekenham conclude with you an other manner of Ergo, and that is, that ye and your confederates, are no Bishoppes, as made contrarye to the lawes and ordinaunces of the Pope, and as well of the late Generall Councel at Trent, as of other General Councels: yea that ye are no good Christians, but plaine Heretiques, for refusing the Pope and the said Generall Councelles au∣thoritie. For the proufe of our assertion, that this Empe∣rour,

albeit he stode against the Pope, auouching him selfe for a true and a ful Emperour, thowghe he were not cōfir∣med by the Pope (which was the very state of the original controuersie betwixt hym and the Pope) and thowghe he procured Pope Iohn (as much as lay in hym) to be deposed, ād placed an other in his roume, belieued yet (this notwith∣standing) that the Pope for spiritual and fayth matters was the Head of the Church (which thing is the ōly matter stā∣ding in debate betwene you ād M. Feckēhā) for prouf I say of this we wil not stray farre of, but fetche yt, only of your owne authours here named: who cōfesse that he appealed, to the very same Pope Iohn,* 1.2 yl enformed, when he should be afterwarde better enformed: and withall to a general councel. But what nede we seke ayde at Antoninus and Nauclerus hands, when we haue yt, so redy at your own hāds? For your self say, that he placed an other Pope in Iohns stead. Ergo he ac∣knowledged a Pope stil: ād as your authour saieth, vt verū Christi vicarium, as the true vicar of Christ. Neither did your Emperour diminishe or blemishe the Popes authority in any poynte, sauing that he sayd, he might appeale frō hym to the general coū∣cel, and that thēperour was not inferiour or subiect to hym for temporal iurisdictiō. But with you ād your bād, neither Pope, nor general coūcell taketh place. Now thē, that ye are cast euē by your own emperour, we might wel let goe the residewe of your superfluous talke, sauing that yt is worth the marking to see your true, honest, and wise hādling of it. Your first ouersight ād vntruth thē is, that ye write, that the Pope claimed the cōfirmatiō of thēperour as an ecclesiastical matter. In dede he claimed the same, ād so right wel he might do: as no new thing by him inuēted,

but browght to him frō hād to hād, frō successor, to succes∣sour, by the race and cōtinuance of many hundred yeares. And yet if we speak properly, yt is no matter ecclesiastical no more thē the patrimony of S. Peter,* 1.3 cōsisting in tēporall lāds was a matter ecclesiastical and yet bothe dewe to the Pope. The one by the gyfte of dyuerse good princes: the other, either by prescriptiō of time owt of mind, or by spe∣cial order takē by the popes at such time, as the pope made Charles the great, Emperour of the West: or whē he trā∣slated thēpire into Germany, and ordeined .7. Princes there to haue the electiō of th'Emperor, or for some other good reason, that yf nede be, may be yet further alleaged ād bet∣ter enforced, thē that al your wytte and cōning shall euer be able, wel to auoyd. Nay say ye, thēperour had great ler∣ned mē on his syde, experte in diuinity, and in the ciuil and canō law. But whē ye come to nōber thē, ye fynd none, but the Poetes Dātes, and Petrarcha, Ockā the scholeman,* 1.4 and the great heretike, Marsilius Patauinus. And shal these men M. Horne coūteruayle, or ouerweighe the practise of the church euer synce vsed to the cōtrary, and cōfirmed by the great cōsente of the catholyke writers, and dyuerse gene∣ral councelles withal? Ye write as out of Antoninus, or Marius, in a seueral and latin letter that the Popes attemptes were erroneous, and derogating from the simplicity of the Chri∣stiā religiō. But such wordes I fynd as yet in neither of thē, nor in any other of your authours, here named. And your authour Antoninus saieth, that in this point, both Dātes ād Ockam with other do erre: and that the monarchy of the Empire is subiect to the Church euē in matters temporal.* 1.5 And wheras your secte wil haue no meane place, for any Christians, but heauen or hell, your Dantes (as Antoninus

telleth) hath fownde a meane place, beside heauen and hel, for Socrates, Aristotle, Cicero, Homere and suche lyke. Suerly Dantes,* 1.6 for his other opinion towching thēperours subiection is counted not muche better then an heretyke. As for Marsilius Patauinus, he hath bene aswell long agoe, as also of late, largely and learnedly answered. But as for these writers, Marsilius Patauinus, Ockam, Dantes, and Pe∣trarche, with diuerse others, part of whom your brethern of Basil haue patched vp togeather, in a greate volume, as they laboure al to proue the Emperour aboue the Pope in temporal iurisdiction and gouernemēt, wherin yet they er∣red (as we haue said) so none of thē al doe labour to proue the Emperour supreme gouernour in spirituall and eccle∣siastical causes, (as you the first founders of this heresy do say and sweare to,) but do leaue that to the Bishoppes, yea and some of them to the Pope to. And therefore al were it true, that they wrote in the fauoure of Lewys the .4. then Emperour, yet were you neuer the nerer of your purpose by one iote. This is M. Horne, your owne proper and sin∣gular heresy of England to make the Prince supreme go∣uernour in causes ecclesiastical. You only are Laicocephali, that is such as make the lay Magistrates, your heads in spi∣rituall matters.

Ye adde then more force to your matter by a great coū∣cel kepte at Franckford, wherat the king of Beame and of Englande also were presente, of which wyth other things is set forth by a special ād a latin letter, as the precise words of Marius, or of the additiō adioyned to Vrspergensis. But neither they, nor anye other of your marginall authours speake of the king of Englād. And when ye haue al don, ād who so euer was there, yt was but a schismatical conuen∣ticle,

and yet muche better, then your late conuocations. Yf the articles of your sayde conuocations had comme to theire handes, no dowbte, they had bene condemned, for a greate parte of them, for most blasphemous heresies. Wel: The Emperour saith (say you) that his authority depēdeth not of the Pope, but of God immediatly, and that it is a vayne thinge, that is wonte to be sayde, the Pope hath no superiour: yf ye could proue this Emperour an Euangelist, or this Coūcel a lawfull Generall Councel, we would geue some eare to you. And yf themperours authority depende so immediatly of God, shewe vs goddes commaundement, geuē rather to the Germans, then to the Frenche or English mē, to chose an Emperour. Most of the other princes Christiā in Europa holde by succession, and not by electiō. And yf ye cā shew vs any other cause of the diuersity, but the Popes only or∣dinance, then shal ye quite your self lyke a clerke. Yf ye cā not shewe other cause, then shal ye neuer be able to shewe vs good cause, why the Pope should not clayme the cōfir∣mation. Yet is yt, sayeth M. Horne,* 1.7 a vayne thing to say the Pope hath no superiour: but yt is more vainelye and fondlye done of you M. Horn, to the descrying of your false dealing and to the destruction of your Primacy, to bring foorth this saying. For your sayd councel recogniseth the Pope, as su∣periour in all causes ecclesiastical. And where yt sayeth, yt hath a superiour, why do ye not tel vs, as your authours do, who is his superiour? Is it the Emperour wene you, or any temporal Prince, as ye wold make your vnlearned reader belieue? No, no. Your councel meante, and so both your au¦thours plainely declare, that it was the generall councell, to the which themperour had appealed. Where you adde, the Actes of this Councell were ratified by the Emperours

letters patents, and do bring in thervpon as the Emperours letters against the Popes processes, you beguile your Rea∣der, and belie your Author Nauclerus. For those letters pa∣tents, this Emperour gaue forth, not as ratifiyng the Actes of that Councel (as you say) but De concilio quorundā fratrū Minorum sub sigillo suo: vpō the aduise of certaine Minorits, vnder his owne seale. And againe: vocata solenni curia: At the keping of a solemne Courte. Of the Acts of that Coun∣cel, Nauclere speaketh not in this place, neither reporteth these leters pattēts to haue proceded therof. Thus of Prin∣ces Courtes, ye make great Councels, and of the aduise of certaī Friers, you frame to your Reader the cōsent of many bishoppes. By suche pelting shiftes, a barren cause must be relieued.

But now are ye yet againe in hand with an other Coun∣cel at Frankford by this Emperour: and with certaine here∣sies that Pope Clement laid to this Emperours charge. It would make a wise man to wonder, to consider, to what end ād purpose this stuffe is here so thrust in. Neither cause can I as yet coniecture any, vnlesse I shoulde impute it, to Maistres folie, or to dame heresie, or to both: or to the spe∣ciall ordinaunce of God, that suffreth this man for the ma∣lice he beareth to the Catholike Church to wexe so blind, that he speaketh,* 1.8 he wotteth not what, and seeth not; whē he speaketh moste against him selfe, nor the matter that he would gladly defend. For beside as many lies as be almoste lines (as that he telleth of an heresie first laid to the Empe∣rours charge, which was not the first, as ye shal vnderstand anon: Item, that the Pope sayed he was an heretike, be∣cause he said Christ ād his Apostles were poore, wherin he doth excedingly lie vpon pope Clement: Item that th'Em∣perour

set forth lawes Ecclesiasticall, concerning mariages and deuorcemēts, which his Authours say not,* 1.9 nor is other∣wise true) beside all this he declareth his Emperour to be a very heretike, and him selfe also, or at the least to be but a very foolish fond man.

I wil therfore for the better vnderstāding of the mater, first rehearse you his authors wordes, and then adde to it some further declaratiō mete for the purpose. The first heresy (saith Nauclerus) was that the Emperour affirmed, that the Decree made by Pope Iohn the .22. touching the pouerty of Christ ād his Apostles, was heretical, swearing that he beleued the contrarie. He auouched moreouer that it appertained to the Emperour, to make or depose Popes. Furthermore being cited to answere in a cause of heresie, and being accursed for his cōtumacy, he hath cō∣tinued almost these tēne yeres in the said curse. He retained al∣so in his cōpany, one Iohn of Landenio an Archeheretik. He ma∣keth bisshops, he breaketh the interdict, and doth expel thē out of their benefices that wil not breake it. He seuereth matrimo∣nies, cōtracted in the face of the Church: and ioyneth persons to∣gether in the degrees forbiddē. He meaneth perchaunce (sayeth Nauclere) that he maried his sonne Lewys to the Coūtes of Ty∣roles, her husbād Iohn, the king of Beames son, yet liuing: saying that he was impotēt: ād furder, shee was maried to this Lewys being within the degrees prohibited. Clemēt addeth beside, that he hath set vp an Idole in the Churche, and an Antipope, and hath de facto, deposed the Pope. These are Nauclere, M. Horn his authors precise words: the which I pray thee good rea∣der to conferre with M. Hornes glose, and then shal ye see the mans honesty and fidelity in reporting his Authors.

This Emperor then was not accōpted an heretik because he said Christ ād his Apostles wer poore, neither is this cō∣demned

for heresie, by the foresaid Iohn the .22. but to say Christ and his Apostles had nothing in cōmon or in priuat,* 1.10 which was the heresie of those that are called Fratricelli, or Pauperes de Lugduno: most chieflie of al men set forth by a Frier called Michaël de Cesena, and our Countriman Frier Ockam, ād Marsilius Patauinus, and by this your Emperour Lewes of Bauarie and by Petrus de Corbario the Antipope, that ye say was placed in pope Iohns roome:* 1.11 who keping a Conuenticle in Italie, condemned pope Iohn for an Heretique, as your Author Marius de∣clareth: So that this faction in this wise on euerie side banded, grew to a very great schisme. And many so fondly and obstinately dwelt in this opini∣nion, that they died as obstinately and wretchedly for it. And yet these men as I haue saied, are not onely holy brethren, but holye Martyrs too, with Maister Foxe. And nowe good Maister Horne, tell vs your iudgement in the matter. Is it Heresie, or is it no heresie, to defende this opinion obstinatlie? If ye say it is heresie▪* 1.12 then doe ye confesse your newe Heade of the Church, with his newe Idole and Antipope, an Here∣tique: and doe shew your selfe a greate slaunderouse lyer against pope Iohn: and a very fonde madde man, thus to fight against your selfe, and your owne cause. If ye doe stoutelie denie this to be heresie, as yee seeme, by the or∣der of your declaration to denie it, as well as the rest, then shewe you your selfe no simple Schismatique, nor simple Heretique, and so ye are at the least messhed here in foure heresies.

To set some fast footing in the discussiō of these matters, and seriouslye to weigh and examine euery thing, woulde

aske some larger talke, thē we may now (vnlesse we would be to to tediouse to our reader) wel spare. But yet for the two principal matters, seing you make so light of Pope Iohn and the Churches Authoritie, I will conuince you, and sufficientlye to, I hope: and by suche a witnesse as your owne Emperour, of all other men in the worlde did most esteme and reuerence, yea and kissed his fote to. Perchaūce Maister Horne ye longe to heare of this man? Truelye he is none other, but your Emperours dearling,* 1.13 and idole the Antipope. I meane Petrus de Corbario. Who at lēgth, (called no doubt thereto by the speciall grace of God,) better aduising him selfe of his doings, and weighing them better with him selfe, after mature and seriouse discussing of them, in fyne founde him selfe no Pope, but a misera∣ble and a wretched intruder, in the sea of S. Peter: and a damnable disturber of the peace and vnitye of Christes Churche, and to say all at ones, a greauouse schismatike, and an heynouse heretike. Wherefore fynding the worme of conscience, bytinge and gnawing his harte, he fell to greate sorowe and lamentation, and forthwith being then at a citie in Italy called Pisa, before the Archebisshoppe of the said citye, and the Bisshoppe of Luke, and manye o∣ther honorable persons aswell of the clergy as of the laity, voluntarilie and willinglye, shewed howe penitente he was for his greauouse enormities, and before them and certayne notaries, for a full testimonie of his true repen∣tance, gaue ouer his vsurped primacie, and plainely con∣fessed, that he hadde bene a schismatike and an heretike: and he did put him selfe into the handes and mercie of the right Pope Iohn the .22. And wrote vnto him resident then at Auinion in Fraunce, his moste humble submission: in

the which he declareth, that as him selfe was but an vsur∣per of the Apostolique▪ See: So your Lewys of Bauarie, was no lawfull Emperour, but an vsurper. He declareth further that both he and the said Lewes, mainteyned di∣uers heresies, and namely two of these that ye here specify, concerning the pouertie of Christ, and the making and the deposinge of the Pope. The which he doth by spe∣ciall woordes freelie and voluntarilie, forsake, renounce, and abiure. And promiseth that he woulde euer after be∣lieue,* 1.14 as the sayde Iohn, and the holie Churche of Rome belieued. Wil ye nowe see good Reader the wonderfull workinge of God, that hath brought to Maister Horne his owne Pope, to condemne him and his newe Heade of the Churche Lewys, for Arrante heretikes? Yea to make a shorte aunswere to all Maister Hornes booke, and to call yt heresie, that Maister Horne doth so stowtlie de∣fende, in saying that the Emperour shoulde be aboue the Pope, and to haue authority to make or depose the Pope? And thus ye heare, (Maister Horne) that contrary to your saying Pope Iohn neither was deposed, nor coulde be de∣posed by your Emperour. I meruayle nowe seing that it is a true and sownde doctrine by your newe heades tea∣chinge,* 1.15 that Christe and the Apostles hadde nothinge of theire own, that your and your fellowes consciences (who pretende that ye woulde haue the Churche that nowe is, reformed to the paterne of the primityue and Apostolicall Churche) are so large, that ye are nothing pinched at cō∣science, in keping your godly and great possessions.

Notes

• * 1.1

  M. Horn•• imperti∣nent Ar∣gument••.
• * 1.2

  Antonin{us} part .3. tit. 21. cap. 5. ff. 8.

  Appellauit ad ipsum Papā malè informa¦tū, benè informandū et etiā ad cōciliū ge∣nerale. Nauclerus Gener 45. Naucler. ibidem. Platina.

  Creatus ita{que} Pseu∣dopontifex ac Nico¦laus .5. appellatus ab imperato∣re & ijs qui cū eo aderant, vt verus Christi vi∣carius cō∣salutatur. Naucler. ibidem.
• * 1.3

  Cōcernīg the cōfir∣matiō of thēperor by the Pope.
• * 1.4

  M. Horne proueth his nevv primacie by poets. M. Hor∣nes ovvn authour cōdēneth his vvyt∣nesses.

  Volater. in Anthropo∣logia.
• * 1.5

  Antoni. part. 3. ti∣tul 21. ca. 5. ss. 2.
• * 1.6

  Bartolus in lege prima ff. de requi∣rendis reis.

  Marsilius Pataui∣nus.

  Vide Hie∣rarchiam Pighij.

  De Iuris∣dict. Im¦per. & ec∣clesiast.

  Basil. im∣pres. Anno 1566.

  The pro∣per haere¦sy of En∣glande.
• * 1.7

  M. Horne leaueth owte of his au∣thours vvordes. Vide dict. Paralip. & Nau∣cler. pag. 384. & 385. vo••¦lum. 3.
• * 1.8

  An heape of Vn∣truths. Naucler. vbi vt su∣pra.

  Paralip. Vrspergen.
• * 1.9

  Naucler. gener. 45. pag. 390. Prima haeresis. Ip¦se enī (in∣quit Cle∣mens) as∣seruit de∣terminat. de pauper tate Chri∣sti et apo∣stolorū per Ioan. 22. factā, esse haereticā: et iurauit se credere contrariū. Item asse∣ruit. &c. M. Horne Emperor is an he∣retike. Vide ex∣trauagan¦tē Io. 22. cū inter de verb. signif.
• * 1.10

  Vide histo∣••iam Ant. part. 3. tit. 21. c. 5. ss. 1.
• * 1.11

  Is Concilio in Italia habito Io. 22. haereti∣cū declarauerat, de∣fendens Iesum eius∣que discipulos adeo pauperes fuisse, vt ni¦hil ne{que} in cōi, neque priuatim habuissent. Quod in Cōcil. Ane∣monēsi refutatū est. Io. Marius de schism. et Cōcil. part. 2. c. 21
• * 1.12

  Cardinal. Flor. in Clement. exiui. ss. proinde de verb. signif. Madde Martyrs.
• * 1.13

  The repē∣tance of the Anti∣pope se••te vp agaīst Pope Iohn.
• * 1.14

  Specialiter cognosco, me tenere & credere quòd ad Imperato∣rem non pertinet, deponere nec insti∣tuere Pa∣pā, prout &c.
• * 1.15

  Vide Ro∣bertū Ar∣bor••••ēsem Episcopum impressum Parisiis in 8. Anno. 15.46. Maister Hornes Emperour, and him selfe declared an heretike by his ovvne Antipope. All Maister Hornes booke shortlie confuted by the sayde Antipope.