A discussion of the ansvvere of M. VVilliam Barlovv, D. of Diuinity, to the booke intituled: The iudgment of a Catholike Englishman liuing in banishment for his religion &c. Concerning the apology of the new Oath of allegiance. VVritten by the R. Father, F. Robert Persons of the Society of Iesus. VVhervnto since the said Fathers death, is annexed a generall preface, laying open the insufficiency, rayling, lying, and other misdemeanour of M. Barlow in his writing.

ABOVT QVEENE Elizabeth her Mortifications. And of the nature of that Vertue. §. II.

THere remaineth the fourth point cōcerning Queene Elizabeths Mortifications, and Pe••nances voluntarily ••aken here in this life: wherof I said by iust occasion giuen,

That if the old platforme of Saints liues prescribed in Scri∣ptures, and practised by the seruants of God, were not er∣roneous and vayne, as much fasting, continuall prayer, dayly mortification, frequent recollection, diligent cha∣sticement of their bodies, aboundant almes-deeds, haire∣cloath, and ashes, and the like: if these things I say, were anciently accounted Viae vitae, wayes to life, as often and highly commended in the Scriptures by the Holy Ghost, and practised from time to time in the liues of the holiest men in the Christian Church; then sayd I, must the wayes and paths of Queene Elizabeths life which are knowne to be far different from these, be very dangerous, and the end and successe thereof not so assured of glory, as her flat∣terers both promised her in her life, and now will needs after her death, beare men downe that it is performed.

To this M. Barlow answereth in diuers sorts: first out of the Epistle of S. Paul to the Romans, VVhat art thou that iudgest another mans seruant, for somuch as to his Lord he standeth or f••lleth? But this place is manifestly abused by M. Barlow, as are commonly all other Scriptures alleadged by him. For S. Paul speaketh in this place of indifferent things, as of eating and drinking, in which a man may not condemne rashly another, Qui n••n manducat, manducantem non iudicet, he that eateth not, let him not iudge him that eateth. But touching our cause in hand, let him read the sentence of the fame Apostle to Timothy, both clearly and resolutely set downe, Querundam hominum peccata manisesta sunt, praecedentia ad iudicium: quosdam antem subsequuntur. Similiter & bona facta manisesta sunt, & quae aliter se habent, abscondi non p••ssunt. The ••innes of some men are manifest going before thē to iudg∣ment: but in some other they follow. And so in like man∣ner good workes are manifest, and those that be otherwise cannot be hidden. Wherby it is manifest in some cases, that a man may iudge, or at least wise haue a probable con∣iecture (for Almighty God may alter in secret what to his diuine wisedome and mercy shall seeme good) what end a Christian is like to ariue vnto, by the wayes wherin he walketh. And S. Paul himselfe doth set downe sundry particulars in diuers places of his Epistles, in which he sayth that Christians shall not be saued. So as this kind of iudgement is not wholy forbidden, but rash iudgment only.

Secondly then M. Barlowe commeth to lay hand on another answere, saying, That fasting with a sower countenance, prayer in open places, dole of almes with proclama∣tions, are ensignes of hypocrites in our Sauiours iudgment. Wher∣to I reply that these are but the abuses of good things, which abuse the Seruants of God flying, do retayne the good vse. Thirdly sayth hee, (for he deuideth his proofes into sundry heads, and all not worth a rush) such outward habits of mortification as Iesuits terme, of wearing of heare-cloth, and the like, might argue Achab. who went barefoote in hayre-cloth and a••••es, to be a mortified creature, as well as the seuerest sel••e chastising

Iesuite of you all. So he. And this only example is sufficient to shew, both the mans spirit, and wit. His spirit in contē∣ning and ••esting at that which God himselfe did so highly esteeme, his wit, that he seeth not what maketh for him, or ag••inst him. As for the Iesuits, their Doctrine is, that all these externall mortifications are only so far forth gra••eful and acceptable to God, as they do proceed from the inter∣nall mortification of the mind, and sorrow for their sins, and not otherwise. And that this externall mortification of Achab did so proceed, is euident by the very wordes of Scripture, alleadged by M. Barlow, which are these: VVhen Achab had heard the speaches of the Prophet Elias, he rent his gar∣mēts, & couered his flesh with haire-cloth and ••asted, & sl••pt in sakcloth and walked with his head bowed douneward. And the word of God was made vnto Elias, saying, hast thou not seene Achab humilia••ed before me? For so much then, as he hath humbled himselfe ••or my cause, I will not bring the euill vpō him, which I haue threatned in h•••• dayes, but in the days o•• his Sonne. And let it be marked, that he sayd humi∣litatus est mei causa, he hath humbled him selfe for my cause, which signifyed that it came from the hart, and from the sorrow that he conceyued, to haue offended God: which is true internall mortification, and made Achab, a true mor∣tified or mortifying creature in that act, for which wee haue God himselfe for a witnes. And it can be no lesse then prophane impiety, and sinfull secularity so prophane∣ly to rest at it. But let vs passe to another parte of his An∣swere in this matter.

Indeed, sayeth he, she was no cloystered Nunne. (to wit Queene Elizabeth:) And so I thinke to: and that the diffe∣rence of their liues did shew it. A Queene she was (sayeth M. Barlow) and a State She had to manage, a people to gouerne•• & much busines to attend, bodily exercise sayth the Apostle profiteth nothing, b••t godlines, that is, a sound sayth with a good conscience avayl••s ••ith God and argueth a minde truely regenerate. This is M. Barlowes way of mortification, not to meddle with Achabs contri∣tion, humiliation, or hayrecloth, nor with the liues of ••loystered Nunnes, that serue God in the austerity of Christian discipline, as fasting, praying, and other morti∣fication,

but only he commendeth a sound ••aith with a good conscience, which euery man will easily perswade himselfe to haue, especially if he belieue him in citing S. Paul to Timothy, as though the Apostle had called such externall mortifications, as fasting and the like, vnprofitable ••odily exer∣cises, and that only a sound fayth were piety. But this is as fraudulent dealing as before: for that the Apostle his very manner of speach, Exerce ••e ipsum ad pietatem, exercise thy selfe to piety, doth shew that he speaketh of good workes and piety of life, and that he maketh here a difference be∣tweene bodily exercise that hath for his end, only the good of the body, and the exercise of piety, which whether they be bodily or spirituall, are alwaies directed to a spirituall end. And so do the ancient Fathers vnderstand the words of exercise and piety, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 especially such as best vnder••••ood the force, and propriety of the Greeke words, as namely S. Chrysostome, who in his speciall Commentary vpon this place of S. Paul defineth piety thus: pietas rectissima vitae norma est, & conuersationis optimae disciplina: Piety is a most straight rule of life, containing the discipline of a most ex∣cellent conuersatiō, wherby only faith you see is excluded. And then ••urther reiecting M. Barlows false interpretation of S. Pauls words, as though he had meant fasting, and o∣ther externall mortifications, by corporall exercises which he calleth lesse profitable, he saith, Quidam hoc Apostolum de ••eiunio aiunt dix••sse, sed prosectò errant: neque enim est corporalis ex••ercitatio i••iunium, sed spiritualis. Nam si corporalis esset, corpus pro¦fectò nutriret: cum autem id maceret & extenuet macie{que} conficiat, corpor••lis dici omnino non potest. Some men (as M. Barlow) do say, that the Apostle (speaking of vnprofitable bodily ex∣ercise (meaneth of fasting, but truely they do erre: for that fasting is no bodily exercise, but spirituall. For if it were bodily, it would no doubt nourish the body: but where∣as it doth chastise the body, extenuateth and maketh it leane, it cannot any way be called corporall. So he.

And if wee will haue the testimony of another as an∣cient as S. Chrysostome, & most skill••ull in the Greeke tongue wherin S. Paul writeth these wordes, though no Grecian

borne; wee may heare S. Hierome, who vpon those wordes, of Exerce te ipsum ad pietatem, exercise thy selfe to piety, setteth downe first what piety is, saying Pietas est e••iam 〈◊〉〈◊〉 tua tribulatione alijs subuenire, Sicut Sareptana vidua seci••: Piety is to help other men euen with thy owne tribulation as the poore, widdow of Sarepta did feed the Prophet Elias, with the bread that she had reserued for her sonne and her selfe. And then as for corporall exercise, named by the Apostle, he sayth it was meant of things belonging to the bodily health, as Sanctarum balnearum, venationum & huiusmodi quae ad breue tempus carnali proficiunt sanitati: holy bathes (such as ho∣ly men did vse for help of their health) hunting and other such bodily exercises for the same end, which do profit to the health of the flesh but for a short time, which admoni∣tion is thought to haue bene giuen by S. Paul to Timothy, as to a young man, that was somewhat delighted with these bodily exercises, or counsailed therunto by Phisitiōs for help of his said health. To which end also the said A∣postle in the same Epistle exhorteth him not to drinke wa∣ter still, but to vse a little wine for help of his stomacke, and in regard of his other frequent infirmities. but yet would haue him to exercise himselfe in the workes of pie∣ty, as now hath bene sayd. So as this place also of S. Paul hath bene abused by M. Barlow his prophane interpretati∣on against externall mortifications.

But now lastly he commeth neere vs indeed, and will shew that Queene Elizabeth her mortification was of ano∣ther kind, perhaps not heard of before. Let vs heare his words: Fourthly (sayth he) to be a King, and to gouerne as a King should do, is mortification of it selfe. This is the largest way (I suppose) of mortification that he can lay before vs: for of this kind he will find, no doubt many mortified people, both of men and women, that would be content to accept of this mortification, to be Kings & Queenes, and to go∣uerne well in their owne conceipts. For what Prince thi••∣keth not, that he gouerneth well, and not only Kings & Princes are to be comprehended vnder this mortification, but proportionally also all other Magistrates and Gouer∣nours

vnder them, who haue one poynt more of mortifi∣cation lying vpon them, then their Supreme Princes, for that they are lyable to giue account to them, which the others are not, and consequently they are more subiect to mortification in their offices, and dignities; and yet most men do seeke after them, both in England and els where, which doth shew that there is great store of mortified men in the world, or at leastwise of men that loue this morti∣fication, and desire to be so mortified. And if to be a Bishop also be a mortification, then hath M. Barlow in like man∣ner proued himselfe a mortified man, & then those words of S. Paul to the Collossians, Mortificate membra vestra quae sunt super terram: Mortify your members which are vpon earth, may haue this sense also among other; do you mortify your self with some good Bishopricke, or other dignity, that in it selfe is a mortification. And do we not see what prophane trifling this is? And that by this drawing Christian ver∣tues out of their compasse, true natures, and spheres, they do eneruate and euacuate all their force, and bring their practice to a meere sound of words.

The Catholike doctrine is, that mortification is a most excellent Christian vertue, commended highly in the Scriptures, and exercised by all Saints, and especially by our Sauiour Christ, and his Apostles, and by the greatest Saints, & Seruants of his, that haue ensued in his Church, as may appeare as well by those words of S. Paul now re∣cited, as also these other to the Romans: Si spiritu sacta carnis mortificaueritis, viuetis: If you shall mortify the works of the flesh by spirit, you shall liue. And then followeth the con∣trary set downe in the same place. If you shall not morti∣fy your sayd members, & deeds of the flesh therof ensuing, but shall liue Secundum carnem, by obeying the lust therof, you shall dy euerlastingly. Wherby is also vnderstood, the nature of this excellent vertue, whose name of mortifica∣tion is deriued from the word Mors, that signifieth Death: for that as when death entreth vpon a body and driueth out the soule, the sayd body remayneth without sense, ••eling, or other motion: so when this vertue of mortifi∣cation

is well exercised of a Christian man, it doth take a way the sensuall life of our lusts and passions, and doth mortify them in their vnlawfull appetites, so as they re∣maine as it were feeble, cold, and dead, in resisting or re∣belling against the superiour parts of the soule, directed by rea••on and religion. And this is that most happy and excellent death so much desired by S. Augustine, when he sayd to God: moriar, ne moriar, let me dy, that I may not dy: and good S. Bernard, Vti••am hac morte ego frequenter cadam, vt euadam l••queos mortis, vt non sentiam vitae luxurian••is mortisera blandimenta: Would to God I may often dy this death, that therby I may escape the snares of the other death, & that I may not feele the deadly flatterings and allurements of this present dissolute life. And then he goeth further to many particularities, saying: Vt obstupescam ad sensum libidinis, ad aestum auaritiae, ad iracundiae & impatientiae stimulos, ad angoris soli∣citudinem, ad molestias cu••••rum: moriatur anima mea morte i••s••••∣rum; bo••a mors quae non aufert, sed transfert in meltus. Let me dy by this death of mortification, that I may become sensles to the feeling of carnall lusts, to the heate of couetousnes, to the pricks of anger and impatience, to the afflictions of solicitude, to the troubles of to many cares: let my soule dy with the death of iust men; this is a good death, and doth not take life from me, but doth change it to a better.

Thus that holy and deuout Father of the workes and effects of mortification, and of his ardent loue that he had therunto. And the like I might most aboundantly shew out of other Fathers, but it were ouerlong for this place. The saying of S. Augustine vpon the former words of S. Paul is general to all men: Hoc est opus vestrum in hac vita, actiones carnis spiritu mortificare quotidie, affl••gere, minue••e, fraenare, interi∣••ere: This is your worke in this life, to mortify dayly the actions of the flesh, by spirit, and to afflict them, dimi∣nish them, to bridle them, and to kill them. Which sense and feeling of mortification, if M. Barlow had, and were of the same spirit, with these holy men, he would neuer seeke so many shifts to discredit the same, and to make it contemptible as he doth; first by scorning at fastings, pray∣ers,

and a••me••••ed••, when by Hypocrites they are abused, which is nothing to the true vse, and consequently not to the purpose; then to disgrace thē, when they are well vsed, by saying that they are bodily exercises, of small vtility; ••hen by ••e••ting at the sackcloath, ashes, and other penan∣ces, and externall mortifications, which God himselfe in King Achab approued, and tooke in great good part; then i•• ••co••ting at the state of Nunnes professing the like retired li••e of mortification; then telling vs further that the life of Queene Elizabeth had ••ore mortification by liuing in a Court wh••re many temptations were, then in a Mona∣stery, which he proueth out of Seneca, saying: Marcet enim ••••ne aduersario virtus: For vertue is sluggish where no aduer∣sary is. By which consequence it followeth that it is much better, and more excellent mortificatio••s for yong Ladies and Gentlewomen, to liue in great Courts where there be store of amourous yong Knights and Gentl••men to tempt them, then to liue solitary, or retired from such Courtes and companies, where no such impugnation of the aduersary is. And this is M. Barlowes good discipline for women, which is farre different from that which S. Cyprian prescribe••h in his Booke De disciplina. & habit•• Vir∣ginu••, no lesse then their two spirits are different.

And lastly you see that he distracteth the word Morti∣fication so farre, as he draweth it to all dignity and honour, and that it is mortification to be a King, Queene, or chiefe Gouernour, which are things most agreeable to mans sensuall desires, and opposite ••o mortification; though I would easily grant, that if a man did hate and fli•• such dig∣nities in him selfe, & that they were forced vpon him; of which sort of men S. Gregory writeth Val••è destent quòd tardè ad patriam redeunt, & tolerare insuper honoris onera copell••••ur: they do greatly bewaile that they returne slowly to their Coun∣trey (which is heauen) and besides are forced to beare the burthen of honours in the meane space: Of these men I say who should so be forced against their wills to sustaine pla∣ces of honour, as S. Gregory himselfe was, in taking the Popedome, to such a man it is a mortification indeed to

be a King, Prince, or Pope. But this riseth not out of the dignity it selfe as M. Barlow fondly teacheth, but out of the vertuous repugnance of the receiuers will: so as if Queene Elizabeth, to come to our proper case, did vnwillingly and with repugnancy of mind take the crowne vpon her, wh••̄ Queene Mary died•• as S. Gregory did his Popedome, then may it be said, that it was some mortification vnto her; otherwise it is ridiculous to make all high dignities and places of honour, Mortification: for so much as euery man doth ordinarily feele in himselfe, an inclination of our corrupt nature to desire them, which naturally notwith∣standing loueth not mortification.

Moreouer, wheras there are two parts and members of mortification, the one internall, the other externall, the internall to mortifie the inward partes of our soule, both intellectuall and sensuall, as to deny a mans owne will, represse selfe loue, subdue our iudgemen•• to the obedience of others, represse the passions both of pride, anger, concu∣piscence & the like: another part externall, that mortifieth the body and outward senses therof, making them subiect to reason by externall punishments of the body, as by fa∣stings, watchings, and other chasticements of the same, which S. Paul testifyeth both of himselfe, and the rest of the Apostles that they praised the same, which being so, I would demaund of M. Barlow, to which of these mortificati∣ons doth a Courtly & Princely life lead vs, more then the state of a poore life. For as denying a mans owne will, it is far from Princes, to practice the same, who indeauour rather to haue their wills done, and that with reason: re∣nunciation also of the world and subduing of their owne iudgments, seemeth not so properly to belong to that e∣state. And as for mortifying of passions, if they would at∣tempt to do it, their flatterers would not suffer them, for that they would both say and sweare, that euery passion of theirs is a sound and solide vertue, and euery disordi∣nate appetite a most iust desire.

And if you passe further to externall mortification, as often fasting, much prayer, long watchings, course ap∣parell,

••air-cloth, di••cipline, and the ••ike; how vnfit are they for a Court, or a Court for them? Is not soft & braue apparell, delicate diet, banqueting, dancing, masking, Comedies, loue-letters, and such other, more aggreable to that state and place? Of the first our Sauiour himselfe testifieth, Qui mollibus vestiuntur, in domibus Regum sunt; and for the rest that they were gratefull and familiar in Queene Elizabeth her Court, and more frequented by her selfe then the other, all men I thinke that were eye witnesses of the same will testify. Only there wanted to the world a De∣uine, who by a new Theology should celebrate these Courtly exercises for good mortifications; and now is sprong vp M. VVilliam Barlow, that hath taken the matter vpon him, & published it in print, making the very state and condition of life it selfe, of being a Prince, to be a state of mortification, and consequently also of pennance (for that mortifications be acts of pennance) wherof it doth ensue that Queene Elizabeths life was a penitentiall life, which is f••rre different from that store of felicity and aboundance of temporall consolation, which the Lord Cooke describeth with his Copia & Inopia, which wee shall handle afterward. And thus much of Queene Elizabeths Mortification.

There followeth in my Booke a word or two of her persecutions, for that it was sayd in the Apology, first in generall, that her Maiestie neuer punished any Papist for Religion. And againe, that she was most free from all persecution. And yet further, that she neuer medled with the hard punishment of any Ca∣tholicke, nor made any rigorous law against them, before the Excom∣••••nication of pope Pius Quintus, which was vpon the yeare 1569. ••••d the eleuenth of her Raigne. Wherunto I answered, that for punishments, all the Catholick Cleargy of England were depriued long before this for their religion, and many, as well Laymen as Priestes put in prison for the same, and multitude of others driuen into banishment of all sortes of people, whose names Doctor Sanders setteth downe in his seauenth booke of his Visible Monarchy. The seuere lawes also against them that refused to take the Oath of suprema∣cy,

and should say or heare masse, were made long befo••e this and put in practice: so as this narration could not stand. What replyeth M. Barlow to this? Ni••il ad Rh•••••••• sayth he, the speach is here of lawes, whose payne is death. Yea Syr. And is it so? I refer me to the wordes euen now recited out of the Apology, that her Maiestie neuer punished any Papi•••• •••••• Religion, that she was most free from all persecution; doth not all & any include other punishments besides death? Moreouer when it is sayd that she neuer made any rig••••ous lawes against Catholickes: doth this only comprehēd the lawes, whose punishment is death? To what straites is M. Barlow driuen here? And yet if he doe remember well the oath of Suprem••cie, he cannot but know, that the third refusall therof is also death. So as euery way the poore man is ta∣ken.

Notes

• Rom. 14.4.
• In what cases a mā may iudg of another
• 1. Tim. 5. 24.
• Barl. p. 75.
• Matth. 6.
• About ex∣ternall mortifica∣tions.
• 3. Reg. 2••. 27.
• Achab tru¦ly morti∣fied.
• Prophane impietie in M. Bar∣low.
• Q. Eliza∣beth no cloystered Nun••e.
• A place of S. Paul ex¦pounded cōcerning bodily ex∣ercise.
• Ch••ysost. in comment. ad c. 4. in 1. Tim.
• 3. Reg. 17.
• M. Bar∣low no friend to mortifica∣tions.
• A strange kind of mortifica∣••••on.
• Mortifica∣tion.
• Rom. 8. 13••.
• Aug. l. 1. confe••s. c. 5.
• Bern serm. 52. in Cant.
• Ser. 13 de verb•••• A∣post.
• Strange kind of an¦swering.
• Gregor. 5. moral. c. ••.
• Two parts of mortifi∣cation, in∣ternall & externall.
• Externall mortifica∣tion in Princes.
• M. Barlow a Deuine for the Court.
• Apol. pag. 16.

  M. Barl. foolish shift in an∣swering his Ad∣uersaries obiection about the Persecutiō vnder Q. Elizabeth. Lett. pa••. 18.