An answer to a great nomber of blasphemous cauillations written by an Anabaptist, and aduersarie to Gods eternal predestination. And confuted by Iohn Knox, minister of Gods worde in Scotland. Wherein the author so discouereth the craft and falshode of that sect, that the godly knowing that error, may be confirmed in the trueth by the euident Worde of God

THE ADVERSARIE.

As for the sentence of Paule: God willing to shew his wrathe, to make his power knowen suffered with long pacience, the ves¦selles of wrath ordeined to damnation, &c. it is direct contrarie to your error not withstanding ye abuse it to maintein the same. For seing as Paul saieth, God suffered them with greate paciēce, he is sorie for them: if he be sorie, thē hath he no pleasure in their destructiō: ād that wherein he hath no pleasure, he willeth it not and that w^c he willeth not, he doth not ordein it. Wherefor seing God suffered thē with greate paciēce to fall, he hath not ordeined [ 1] thē to fall: yⁿ dispisest, saieth S. Paule, y^e riches of gods goodnes ād patiēce ādlōg sufferāce, not knowing that y^e kindnes of God lea∣deth the to repētāce. behold here the cause why God suffered with [ 2] long pacience, is that we should repent and amend. If they had ben absolutely ordeined to damnation afore the foundation of the world▪ then God knew they should neuer repent, and amend. to [ 3] what purpose then suffered he them with lōg pacience? Notwith standing this is plaine ynowgh▪ ād conform to the word▪ yet ye di∣spising what so euer is contrarie to your mynd, ye stik fast to the literall sense of th••se wordes, ordeined to damnation, which wor∣des be spoken after the common maner of speaking, as they be called after the common phrase of speach, ordeined to damnatiō, whose end is damnation, we vse to say of a man that is cast to

be hanged, this man was born to be hanged, not with standing it was not his mothers mynd to beare him to be hāged. Such phra∣ses haue we verey many in the scriptures, as Exod. 11 Pharao harkened not vnto you that many wonders may be done in the land of Egipt. forasmuch as the wonders done in Egipt were greuous to Pharao, he did not disobey the intent that mo wonders which were plagues should com vpon him, but this was the issue of his obstinat inobedienco. Exod. the XIX who so euer giueth his sede vnto Moloch, let him be slayn, because he hath geuen of his sede vnto Moloch to defyle my Sanctuarie and to pollute my holie Name. The Israelites did not sacrifice their children to Moloch to defyle the lordes sanctuarie and to dishonor the Name of God, but to worship Moloch, notwithstanding that was the issue and end of their sacrifice vnto Moloch, that the Lordes sanctuarie was defiled and his Name dishonored. Thereby Iero∣boam made the two golden claues wherby he made Israel sinne to anger the Lord God of Israel. The cause why Ieroboam made the two golden claues and his intention was not to anger God: but he thoght that if the people should go vp ād do sacrifice in the howse of the Lorde at Ierusalē there heartes shulde return to Ro∣boam king of Iuda wherefor he made two golden calues to make the people sacrifice at Bethel, wherupon followed the wrath of God. Of their siluer and gold haue they made them images to bring themselues to destruction, The Israelites made them ima∣ges thinking thereby to be saued and not destroied: yet their de∣struction followed thereof. Ieremie saieth Omy mother, alas that euer thow diddest beare me to be a brawler, ād a rebuker of the hole land. Ieremies mother did not bear him to that intent, but yet this was the end. And in the new Testament, if any man hunger, lett him eat at home, that ye com not togither to condēna∣tion: the Corinthians came not togither to the intent to purchesse thereby condemnatio••, but of their abuses in comming togither followed their condemnation. By these places and many others, we may vnderstand the phrase of scriptures: That they be or∣deined to damnation whose end is condemnation, which they receaue not by the will of God, which wold all men to be saued, but as a iust reward for their sinnes. As the traitor which suffereth oght not to impute his death to the sentence which the

iudge iustly hath giuen against him, but to his own offence and treason, so when we for our sinnes be ordeined to punishement, we oght not to impute it to gods fore ordināce which is both good and full of mercie, but to our own offences. And seing (as S. Paul saieth, God suffered them with greate pacience, their damnation cometh not by the counsell and will of God, for which he is sorie as he saieth by the prophete Ieremie. I haue bene sorie for the so long that I am werie. will ye say that God werieth him self, suf∣fering ād sorowing for them, whom he had reprobated afore the world surelie I think that thoghe ye hitherto haue vnaduisedly said so ye will from hence furthe say so no more, which God grāte in tyme that ye werie not the lord also with sorowing for you.

ANSWER.

As your cogitatiōs of God be grosse and carnall, so be your iudgemētes in this place of scripture deceua∣ble and most erroneouse. Esteme it no iniurie, that I af∣firm your cogitations of God to be carnall ād grosse. For I can euidently proue, that som of you affirm and main∣tein, that God hath eies, fete, handes, armes, and final∣ly all proportion of man: that he slepeth and doth againe awake, that he forgetteth and after doth remember, that he is mutable, and doth in verie dede repent.

If these cogitations of the e••ernall God be not car∣nall: yea if they be not wicked, ād deuelish, let the godly indifferent reader iudge,

In this your long gradation, which ye make vpon the wordes of Paule, ye cōclud contradiction to the ho∣lie Gost, and to the plaine wordes of the Apostle. For the Apostle meaneth and plainely speaketh: that albeit God doth long suffer and delay the iudgement of the repro∣bate yet cease they not to be vesse••les of wrath, as they that are ordeined to perdi••ion. But you conclude the cō∣trarie affirming, that he hath not ordeined them to fal. And so because you conclude directly against the holie Gost, I can not cease to say, that your collectiō is errone∣ouse. But to giue an answer more full and large, in ex∣amining the partes of your gradatiō, I will shew your er∣ror ād the cause thereof. first you say: seing God suffered

them with greate paciēce, he is sorie for them. here I say in your first foundation lieth your error, and the cause thereof is, that altogether ye are ignorāt of gods nature, in whom nether falleth such sufferance, such paciēce, nor such sorow, as you grosly imagin. God is omnipotent, and is compelled to suffer nothing, which he hath not ap∣pointed in his eternall counsell, he is a Spirit, ād fre from all such passions, as creatures be subiect vnto. for in his eternall Godhead, there is nether pacience subiect to paine, nether yet sorowe annexed with angwishe and grief. But when such passions be attributed vnto God, it is for the weaknes of our vnderstanding, that the ho∣lie Gost doth subiect him self in langage, and tongue to our capacitie.

Ye take libertie to your self in dyuers other phra∣ses, to explaine them as you please, yea euen against the plaine scripture. And why will ye not permitt, that such phrases be so vnderstand, as nothing be iudged vpon gods Maiestie, which doth not aggre, with his godlie na∣ture? ye do far abuse the mynd of the Apostle: for he doth not inferre as you foolishly and wickedly do, that becaus God did suffer with great pacience, therefor he was sorie, but saieth, he did suffer the vesselles ordei∣ned to destruction, that vpon the one sort his wrath and power, and vpon the other (that is, vpon the elect) the riches of his glorie might be knowen. This were suf∣ficient to put silence to your folie. But yet somwhat to instruct the simple, I will som what trauale to make the∣se wordes of the Apostle sensible and plane.

He had before concluded: that God wold haue mercie vpon whom he wold haue mercie, and whom it pleased him, those did he harden. As this sentence far surmounted mannes capacitie, so might it engender som doubtes, in the heartes of the verey godlie. For they might haue reasoned if that God will finally destroy all the reprobate, to what purpose are they now permitted to triumphe, and to trooble the elect of God? In answe∣ring

to which doubt, the Apostle assigneth three reasons, why God with great pacience, suffereth the vesselles of wrath. To witt that his power, his wrath, and the riches of the glorie of his mercie more euidently may appere & be knowen. For if God should sodanly from the bellies of their mothers, take away the reprobat, or if he should in the beginning of their malice so break downe their pryde, that they could not procede against him, nether should his power appere so great, nether yet his wrathe so iust and so holie. But when he doth suffer them, as he did Pharao, from one mischief to procede to an other, often remouing his plagues, and so declaring him self easie to be entreated, euen vnto such tyme, as their malice and raige do carie them, as it were openly to dispyse God, and his power, when then, I say, in one moment God potent∣ly doth ouer throwe the force & strēgth of his ennemies, as y^t he did of Pharao, Senacherib, Balsasar, and of others. then is his godlie power, and most iust wrathe more eui∣dently knowen, then that he should ether haue repressed them in the beginning, ether yet haue taken them away, before their malice began to budde. For hereby doth he not onely admonish others of the certen destruction of all those that continue in crueltie, but also giueth to his Churche most singulare comfort, letting them se that his prouidence, and power watcheth for them, euen when the raige of the ennemie appereth to deuore al. And so do they se what is gods mercie towardes them. Further whē the elect aduisedlye do consider what be gods seuere iudgementes against the inobedient, and do consider how prone and redie they them selues be of nature to rebelliō against God, except they were cōducted by his spirit, they com to a more liuelie feling of gods fre mercie & grace: by the which onely they are exempte frome the rank and societie of the reprobate. Albeit that these endes & causes of gods long suffering, of the vesselles of wrath, do not satisfie you, yet I doubt not but gods afflicted childrē wil, and do take comfort of the same. you thus procede in

your sophisticall Sorites. If he be sorie (say you) then hath he no pleasure in their destruction. And that where in he hath no pleasure he willeth it not, and that which he willeth not, he doth not ordein it. wherefor seing God suffereth them to fall with greate pacience, he hath not ordeined them to fall.

Your foundation being fals, your hole building falleth by y^e own weight. Before ye procede any further, ye must proue, y^t God did suffer in the vesselles of wrath, that which he nether could nor might remedie, and the∣refor that he fell in greif and sorow, that his power was no greater and his wisdom no perfiter. Wo be to your bla∣sphemies, for they cōpell me to write, that which I glad∣ly wold not.

I haue before said that God nether hath pleasure in destructiō, nether yet that he will the death of the sinner absolutely, y^t is hauing none other respect, but to their torment and pain onely. But albeit pryde and malice will not suffer you to grante, that God hath created all thin∣ges for his own glorie: yet will not he be suppliante vnto you, that ye shall suffer him to vse his creatures, at his own good pleasure.

Where vpon these wordes of the Apostle: doest thow dispyse the riches of gods goodnes, not knowing that the kyndnes of God leadeth the to repentance, ye inferre, that the cause why God suffereth with long pa∣cience is that we should repent and amend. If you vn∣derstand that God suffered his elect, euen in the tyme of their blyndnes, yea and after their horrible falles and offenses with great lenitie and gentlenes, to the end that afterward they may repent, I do aggre with you. for so he did with Dauid, Manasses, Paule, and many o∣thers, who after their conuersion did not dispyse gods lenitie, but did magnifie and praise the same, as in all their confessions may be red. But if you vnderstand Paules wordes so, that God hath none other end in that his long suffering, but that the reprobate shal repent

and amend their wickednes, because the holie Gost assi∣gneth other causes (as before we haue declared) I must preferre his iudgement and sentence to yours. To your vnreuerent bolde and furious question, in which ye a••k to what purpose did God suffer them with lōg pacience, whom before he knew shoulde neuer repent nor amend, I can answer none other wies, then I haue done before, except that this I adde: that if ye be not contēt that gods iust wrath and greate power shall aswell be manifested, both in this world, and in the life to com, vpon the ves∣selles of wrath, as that his mercie, & the riches of his glo∣rie shall be praised and extolled in the vesselles of mer∣cie, that experience (which the common prouerbe cal∣leth maistres to fooles) shall teach you, that it nothing profited the Gyantes, of whom the poetes do speak, to heap vp mountane vpon moūtane, of purpose to besiege Iupiter in the heauens. To vse the wordes of scripture, if be tymes ye cease not, so vnreuerently to questiō with God, you shall fele for euer, what torment is prepared, for such as with humilitie, can not be subiect to his iudge∣mentes incōprehēsible, for if ye shall constrein his Ma∣iestie to giue you a reason, which ye may vnderstand and apprehend, what do you elles thē go aboute to spoile him of his Godhead?

We stick none other wies to the literall sense of these former wordes of the Apostle then the rest of scri∣ptures permitt and do teach vs. But how proper be your phrase and common maner of speaking, by the which ye labor to obscure the plaine wordes of y^e Apostle, we brief¦ly shall examin. Ordeined to damnation (say you) after the common maner of speach, doth signifie no more, but whose end is damnation. To grant you som what, I wold know of you, who hath ordeined damnation, to be the ēd of the reprobat: I perceaue by your exemple, that ye dare not say, God: for thus ye say, we vse to say of a man, that is cast to be hanged, this mā was born to be hanged, notwithstanding that was not his mothers mynd to bear him to be hanged.

Besides the foolishe rudenes of this exemple, I won∣der at your madnes, that you can neuer make difference betwext God and earthly creatures. Dare you say, that God hath no greater power, nor foreknowledge in di∣recting and appointing his creatures to their endes, then the mother hath to direct, forse, and appoint the end of her child? after that she hath born him, she knoweth not what shalbe his naturall inclination: althogh she instruct and correct him, yet can she not bow ād expell his croo∣ked nature: when he is absent from her presence, she se∣eth not his conuersation. If he be deprehended in theft or murther: and so cast to be hanged, she can not (althogh she wold) delyuer him from the handes of the iudge. But is there any of these imperfections in God? Consi∣der yet, and let reason at length put silence vnto your foo¦lishenes.

Where of the wordes of Moises, of Hoseas, Ieremie, and Paul, ād of the fact of Ieroboam, ye go about to pro∣ue, that phrase in that sense, w^c ye adduce, to be common in scriptures. I, am in dowt whether that first I shall lamēt yo^r blynd ignorāce, or abhorre & detest yo^t abhominable lies, & horrible prophanatiō of gods most holie worde.

It is impossible ••^t ignorāce hath so blynded you all, y^t none of you cā se y^e diuersitie betwext tho semaner of spe∣aches: God hath suffered y^e vesselles of wrath ordeined to destruction, & these, Pharao shall not heare you, y^t many wōders may be wroght, &c. Giue not of thy sede to be of∣fered to Moloch, &c. I will set my face agaīst such ā mā, & I will rout him out, from the midest of his people, because that he hath giuen of his sede to Moloch, that he might defyle my Sanctuarie, & prophain my holie Name. And so furth of all the rest. for onelie the place of the Apostle after the english phrase and speach may be rightly tran∣slated, to condemnation, I appeall to thy conscience thow manifest corruptor of gods scriptures, if in all the places, by the alledged there be not this particle, Vt, which is a causal, and not the preposition, In, which is in the wordes of. S. Paul. And hath malice so bereft the of knowledge

that thow canst make no difference, betwext those two dictions or wordes. The Lord of his mercie preserue his Churche frō so bolde & so deceatfull teachers. If altogi∣ther thou haddest bene ignorant, with sorow of heart, I could haue lamēted thy foolishenes: but pererauing y^e of set purpose and malice, willingly to corrupt gods plaine scriptures, that thow may blynd the more easely, the eies of the simple, with grief, ād dolor, I say, that better it had bene for the, neuer to haue bene born, thē thus obstinatly to fight agaīst gods plaine trueth. And that in such furie, that where from the scriptures, thou canst haue none assu∣rance for thy error, yet so thow darest wrest them, y^t they may seme to serue thy purpose. Where so euer thou cāst wrest any place, that it may be translated by this englishe, To, there thow ashamest not to affirm, y^t it is the self same phrase, with this of S. Paule, vesselles of wrathe prepared or ordeined to destruction. This is sufficient to shew to the learned, yea euen to such, as do but vnderstand the firstprinciples of their grammer, thy infidelitie ād craftie deceat, in this mater. But because such as vnderstand no∣thing in the latin tongue, can not hastely espie thy craft, I will trauale to make it so sensible as I can.

If I should say, I am appointed to death, to fele the punyshement of sinne, and so to make sinne to cease: will thow therefor say, that this particle, To, in the former place, where I say I am appointed to death, and in the se∣cond place where I say, to sele the punishement of sinne, and to make sinne to cease, are all one phrase, and oght a like to be resolued? I suppose thow wilt not. for in the first place, it cā be none other wies resolued but thus, I am ap∣pointed to death that is, I must nedes die: but in the secōd place, two causes of death be assigned: for where I say, to fele the punishemen•• of sinne, I vnderstand, that one cause of death is, that I and all mē may fele, how horrible is sinne before God: and in this last I vnderstād that death so putteth an ēd to sinne, that after it may not trooble the elect of God. The phrase of S. Paule is much more diffe∣rent

from all that thow adducest, then be these phrases before alledged, one differen•• frome an other. for where he saieth, vesselles of wrath ordeined to destruction, he signifieth the final end of the vessels of wrath, to be or∣deined, and before determined in gods eternall counsell. And in all these places: to prouoke the Lord, to anger, to defyle my Sanctuarie, to kyndle gods wrath against Is∣rael: to make Israel sinne, and such like, are their acti∣ons signified to be the causes of gods anger, gods wrath, and why he reputed his Sanctuarie polluted. Thus thy frowardnes causeth me to trooble the simple reader. The place of leremie tho v maliciously doest peruerte, for it cā be in nowies so trāslated. But what tōgue so euer thow doest follow thow must say wo be to me, O my mother that thus hast born me, a man that am a brawler, and a man of contention in the hole land

The place of Paule, 1. Cor. 11. serueth nothing for thy purpose. for albeit there be a preposition, ad, which truely may be translated, To, yet that speach is far dif∣ferente, from the former speach of the Apostle for where he saieth: Eat at home that ye come not togither to con∣demnation, he doth admonish them of the danger, which they know not, w^c was that such inordinat, and riatouse banqueting ioyned with the cōtēpt of the poore, without repentance must bring condemnation. if thow list replie & alledge that thow stickest not somuch to the termes, as to the mater▪ for in all these former speaches, man pretē∣ded one thing but an other thing ensued. What cāst thow thereof conclude? but that gods purpose, sentence, and mynd, is not subiect to mannes purpose and intention. True it is, that nether Pharao did resist Moises of purpose to be plagued, nether did Ieroboam erect the calues that Israel should be destroied, but yet becaus God had so be∣fore pronounced ineuitably plagues and destruction did follow their inobedience. If hereof ye will conclu∣de, as ye seme to do, that those whose end is condemna∣tiō, receaue not that by y^e will of God, because ye cōclude

that which neither ye haue proued, neither yet go about in this place to proue, I will not trouble my self, with an∣swering for this present. But whē ye shal go about to pro∣ue that God will all men to be saued (as ye affirme) I hope by gods grace, to answer sufficiently. For as we doubt not but gods iudgemētes are holie, and most iust, so we know that the conscience of the wicked shall fele in them sel∣ues, and no where elles, the causes of their condemnation. Neither yet did any of vs euer hold, beleue or affirme, that any reprobate, shall haue that libertie in the hell to quarell with God, of the secrete causes of his condemna∣tiō: for the bookes shall be opened, and the secretes of all heartes shall be reueled.

To the suffering, pacience, and sorowing of God, I haue before answered, in the beginning of this your last confused gradation, and so I will not trouble the reader, with the repetition of the same. The wordes of Ieremie w∣hich ye alledge, can haue no such sentence, as ye do ga∣ther. for he doeth not speak of any passion, that was in God, as touching his eternall Godhead: but onely doeth appeall to the conscience of the people, how oft God had not onely rebuked, but also from time to time corrected them, euer calling them to repētance, and suspēding their last punishment, how beit that they continually from euil fell backward vnto worse. And so at length was God we∣rie oftener to repent: that is to say, at once he wold powre furth his iust vēgeāce, which before so oft he had threat∣ned. Let the first chapter of Isaiah be commentarie to this place, and I trust the sentence shall be plaine. For there he affirmeth, that in that people there was no hole part, that is all order and policie was almost confounded, Ierusalem was in a maner left desolate, by the manifest plagues w∣hich had apprehended it. but yet there was no trew con∣uersion vnto God. And here he saieth, thow hast left me (saieth the Lord) and I haue therefor lifted vp myn hād v∣pon the, and haue scattered the. I am werie in repenting, that is, that I haue spared the so long. I shall scatter them with the fan, euen vnto the gates of the earth (that is to the

vttermost parte) I haue made my people desolate, and I ha¦ue destroyed them: neuertheles they haue not turned frō their waies. I trust y^t euerie reasonable man will cōsider, y^t those wordes be rather spoken, to admonish the people, how God by all meanes had prouoked them to repentan∣ce, then to declare vnto vs, what nature or passions God hath in him self, as ye do. For so appereth in this your que¦stion. Wil ye say, that God werieth him self suffering and sorow¦ing for them, whom he had reprobated before the world? Surlie I think, that thogh ye hitherto haue vnaduisedly said so, ye will from hence furth say so no more. And so ye end this portion with a prayer. To the which we answere in few wordes, that albeit we will not take vpon vs, to define, what after this shal your cogitations be, yet will we not cease to pray to God, that your heartes beīg humbled with greater reue¦rence, ye may not onely think, but also speak of gods hie Maiestie, of his iudgements most holie, most iust, and vt∣terlie in this life in comprehensible to our dull senses. But now we go forward to that which foloweth.

Notes

• The twētie & fou∣re Secti¦on.
• The se∣uēth argu¦ment.
• Exod. 11.
• None of these phra∣sis be lyke if they be∣wayed.
• Osee. 8
• Ierem. 13
• Ierem. 15. 9
• Answer 〈◊〉〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉〈◊〉.
• Painfull passions fall not in God.
• The place of Paul explaned.
• Thre cau∣ses why God suffe∣reth the wicked re¦probate.
• Exod. 14 Isaiah. 37 Daniel. 5.
• Answere.
• Answer to the 2. & 3.
• Answer to the furious question of the ad∣uersarie.
• Answer to the. 4.
• Answer to the 5. & 6
• Ezod. 11 Leuit. 18 & 20
• The ana∣baptistes do plainly corrupt y^e scriptures of God.
• Ierem. 15
• Answert•• the. 6
• Answer to the 8.
• To the 9.
• The first chap. of I∣saiah de∣clareth the place of Ie¦remie w∣rested by the aduer∣saries.
• Ierem. 15.