A manifeste detection of the notable falshed of that part of Iohn Frithes boke whiche he calleth his foundacion, and bosteth it to be inuincible: newly set foorthe by Iohn Gwinneth clerke.

Cap. 30.

HERE.

Mary syr a faire farewell in dede.

CATH.

Why what eileth it?

HE.

What shal I nede to tel you, if we parte nowe, and leue the matter thus?

CA.

What remedie? for I can tary no longer at this time:

HERE.

Then I praie you tell me, when we shall mete agayne:

CATH.

Mete againe? why art thou not well yet?

HERE.

Well yet quotha? Mary sir all this is nothynge to that I looke for.

CATH.

what is that?

HERE.

I looke for the scriptures, the olde holy doctours, and the natural reasons, that Frith bringeth for the profe of his principall purpose againste the reall presence of Christes veray bodie in the sacrament, whiche purpose he buildeth vpon this foundacion. These thyng{is} I looke for, to see, what ye can saie to them: or whether ye be a∣ble to auoide them or not.

CATH.

I dooe plainly con∣fesse, that I am not able in dede. For who can auoide holy scriptures, olde holy doctours, or naturall reason other?

HERE.

Then if ye can not auoide them, ye must nedes graunte, that Frith hath his purpose.

CATH.

Naie softe, thou must pardon me therof. For although I can not auoide the holy scriptures, nor yet the olde holy

doctours, that he bringeth for him: yet I can wel auoide his fals vnderstandynge of them. And what by them, hath he gotten then? And as for his naturall reasons that thou speakest of, I am well able to proue, that they bee in the name of them, nothynge els, but a sorte of deceueable sophisticacions: wherin he plaieth as one did (synce I maie remember) beynge aboute to steale ware out of a shoppe in London, and perceiuyng that he was spied and lyke to bee taken, he to goe, and diuers after hym, criynge stoppe the thefe stoppe the thefe, and he herynge that, cried euen so lykewise hym selfe, as faste as they did, by reason wherof, suche as met hym in the waie, nothynge suspectynge hym, looked so muche after an other, whiche as thei thought shoulde bee before hym, that he by that meanes gat to saint Mar∣tyns, and deceiued them all. And so lykewise this wily sophister Frith, goynge aboute to steale from vs the trewthe of our feithe with his deceiueable sophisticaci∣ons, vnder the name and pretence of naturall reasons, and fearyng therwith to be taken, had none other shifte nor hope to scape, (but as I tolde thee before) to exclame and crie, beware of sophisters, beware of sophisters, thinkynge vtterly therby, that no man wolde suspects hym to bee any of that sorte: and yet in comparison of hym, there is none but he alone: wherof thou haste had a metely good profe alredie:

HERE.

What profe so euer I haue had alredie, I wolde here the profe of that whiche I nowe desyre:

CATH.

Thou shalte:

HERE.

Yea but when?

CATH.

Euen when thou wilte thy selfe:

HERE.

That, by my wyll; shall bee euen to morowe, while this that I haue herde to daie, is somewhat freshe in memorie.

CA.

Content.

HERE.

Then where shall I mete with you?

CATH.

In no place better than here:

HE.

What time? before noone or after?

CA.

Naie it passeth an after noones woorke I maie saie to thee: for the whole daie longe, I suppose were littell enough. And therfore come by nyne or ten of the clocke at the fardest. For one thynge I will tell thee before, thou neuer herdest suche a woorke, of an he∣retike since thou were borne, as thou shalt here of him de∣clared in this profe whiche thou requirest.

HE.

What wors then I haue herde to daie?

CA.

Be thou iudge thy selfe when thou herest it:

HE.

Well sir, I will not faile the time apointed, for I shall now thinke longe till it come.

CA.

Therfore I will bede thee farewell till then:

HE.

No sir not yet, for I will bringe you home∣warde.

CA.

That shall not nede:

HE.

Yes sir, for halfe your waie and mine is all one:

CA.

Then come on, let vs goe together for so farre:

HE.

That is my desyre. And therfore is it not as good we be talkyng by the waie for the time, as ought els?

CA.

Yes, I am veray well pleased therwithal, if thou hast any thyng els to saie.

HE.

Yes mary sir, and that is this: I wolde faine knowe by what reason you can proue, y^t this same article, which we haue bene aboute all this while, is one of them, that we are bownde of necessitee to beleue vnder peine of dam∣nacion: Ye haue hitherto inueied againste Frith, for holdyng the contrarie, but yet haue ye doone nothynge to the probacion therof your selfe: for it is two thynges to proue Frithes opinion false, and to proue yours trewe:

CATH.

Well, although the probacion of the trewthe, can not haue a veray apte and conuenient place, before the falsitee bee cleane reselled and through∣ly put awaie, and that in the whole, as it is not nowe, but

in parte, yet all voide of thy request, I wyll not leue thee, because I perceiue thee, somewhat desyrous to here of the matter: And therfore while Frithes opinion is this, that it is an article of no necessitee to bee beleued, and our feithe is plaine to the contrarie, the one parte, or the other, muste nedes be trewe: wherfore because the one parte, or the other muste nedes be trewe, and betwene trewthe and falshed there can be no meane, it can not be auoided, but sith the falshed is founde of his syde: The trewthe muste nedes remaine with vs.

HERE.

Nay sir that foloweth not: for the falshed that ye fynde with Frithe, is in his probacion and not in the thynge, which he goeth aboute to proue. For ye knowe right well, that a man maie misse in the probacion of a trew thynge sometyme, and yet is not the thynge false, because the probacion is not trewe.

CATH.

So maiest thou ex∣cuse euery falshed, whiche any false harlot goeth aboute to proue trewe: for soone maiest thou saie, that although he faile in his probacion, yet is the thynge that he wolde proue, trewe enough for all that, because a man maie be deceiued in the probacion of a trew thynge. When in dede the faulsitee of a thynge, is ofte times more then halfe disclosed, by the falsitee of the probacion. And therfore although the manifeste falshed of Frithes pro∣bacions, dooe not euen very apertly proue the falshed of his opinion. Yet dooth it make at the least, an ineuita∣ble coniecture therof. And therfore euen as much for the trewth of our side: for what shall or maie we gather of this, that all the reasons whiche he hath brought for his purpose, doth not only not proue his intent, but also draw after them suche odible consequences, as euery good christen eare must nedes abhorre to here? what shall we

gather (I say) of this, but that the mighty and inuinci∣ble trewth of the contrary part, will in no case suffre it selfe to be ouerthrowne. Furthermore, what wilt thou say, if Frith doe sufficiently proue our parte him selfe?

HERE.

That can not be, for all his whole purpose is vtterly to the contrary.

CATH.

I graunt the same, and yet marke him well. For he intendinge in dede to proue the contrary, maketh neuer a reason, but that (as I haue declared vnto the) it renneth vtterly euen as much against the necessitee of other necessary articles be∣side, as it doth against this, for which he did purpose it: and that were not possible, but because the like or the ve∣ry same necessitee of beliefe, is as wel in this, as in them, and all one: for how shuld his reasons purposed only a∣gainst the necessary beliefe of this article, touch the neces∣sary, beliefe of any other likewise, more thē they touch the light of the sonne, the heat of the fire and other like, being no more purposed against those other necessary articles, then against these thinges, but vtterly because those arti∣cles and this, be all of one sort, and of like necessitee to be beleued, and eache of these thinges, that is to say, the light of the sonne, and the heat of the fire, cleane of an o∣ther sort? For what reason so euer be brought against a∣ny thing, so farre it doth alway renne as the communi∣tee of the thing, against which it is brought, doth extende, and no farther: As be it in case, that one were so madde, as to deny the immortalitee of thy soule, and wolde goe aboute to disproue the same. Yet what so euer reasons he shuld make against it, without faile must nedes renne likewise, euen as well against the immortalitee of all o∣ther mens soules beside, as against thine, and that could not be, but because that same immortalitee is commune

and doth apperteine as well vnto thy soule as to theirs. Wherfore after the like maner, the cause why, that Frithes reasons doth renne, as well against the neces∣sitee of other necessary articles, as it doth against the ne∣cessitee of this (for which they were purposed) is vtterly because, the very same necessitee of beliefe, is commune and doth aperteine as well vnto this, as to them and all one: for els it were not possible for those reasons purpo∣sed but onely against this, to make any thing more a∣gainst the necessitee of those other, then against (as I said) the light of the sonne, or any thing els beside. Ther∣fore it must nedes folow, that this article, is of as great necessitee to be beleued, as any of the other is. wherfore because Frith wolde haue proued it indifferent and could not, he hath therfore now proued it necessary and wolde not. Wherwith content thy selfe, thou gettest no more of me at this tyme.

HERE.

Yes I pray you sir, one thinge more, and then I will bid you farwell.

CA.

What is that?

HERE.

Mary sir I haue redde Frithes boke, I wene as often as euer did you, and yet could I neuer finde or perceiue such matter therin, as ye haue de∣clared, and I meruaile greatly what shuld bee the cause therof:

CATH.

It is no meruaile at all: for doubtles if Frith had no more trewth, vertue, wit, and learning in thine opinion, then he had in his owne head, thou shuldest sone haue perceiued in his booke, a great deale more, then I haue shewed the. And that shalt thou proue most trew, if thou do but withdraw thine opinion and affection from him.

HERE.

Trow ye so?

CATH.

There is no doubt of that.

HERE.

Well sir, here is my way now, and therfore I will trouble you no lon∣ger at this tyme.

CATH.

Then farewell tyll to mo∣row.

HERE.

God be with you sir.

CATH.

And with the to.

HERE.

At. ix. or x. of the clocke ye say.

CATHOLICVS.

What els?

HERETICVS.

I will not faile you.