Report of the Joint select committee appointed to inquire into the condition of affairs in the late insurrectionary states, so far as regards the execution of laws, and the safety of the lives and property of the citizens of the United States and Testimony taken.
United States. Congress., Scott, John, 1824-1896., Poland, Luke Potter,

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Page  [unnumbered] TESTIMONY TAKEN BY THE JOINT SELECT COMMITTEE TO INQUIRE INTO THE CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE LATE INSURRECTIONARY STATES. MISCELLANEOUS AND FLORIDA. WASHINGTON: GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE. 1872.

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Page  [unnumbered] THE KU-KLUX CONSPIRACY. This report consists of thirteen volumes. Volume I contains the report of the committee and the views of the minority. Volume II contains the testimony taken by the committee in relation to North Carolina, and the report of the trials in the United States circuit court held at Raleigh, North Carolina. Volumes III, IV, and V contain testimony taken by the committee in relation to South Carolina, and the report of the trials in the United States circuit court held at Columbia, South Carolina. Index to the three volumes is contained in volume III. Volumes VI and VII contain testimony taken by the committee in relation to Georgia. Index is contained in volume VI. Volumes VIII, IX, and X contain testimony taken by the committee in relation to Alabama. Index is contained in volume VIII. Volumes XI and XII contain testimony taken by the committee in relation to Mississippi. Index is contained in volume XI. Volume XIII contains miscellaneous testimony taken by the committee, testimony in relation to Florida, and miscellaneous documents.

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Page  I IN D EX. MISCELLANEOUS. Page. FLOWERS, ANDREW J., (colored,) testimony of..-................... 41-50 resident of Chattanooga, Tennessee, since 1865.......-.......-............ 41 born in Georgia, and lived there till 1865; learned the trade of coopering within the last two or three years; elected justice of the peace August 4, 1870; two white men elected justices of the peace at the same time.........-. —-. 42 visited a sister (who was teaching school at-Whiteside, fourteen miles west of Chattanooga) June 17, 1871; that night a crowd of masked men with pistols in their hands entered his room, after he had gone to bed, and took him out and carried him nearly a mile from the house.............................. 42 made him take off his coat and vest, gave him twenty-five blows with hickories seven or eight feet long, and made him promise to resign his office of justice of the peace; three men whipped him; was told by them that they had nothing against him, but they did not intend to have a " nigger" holding office, and that they whipped him because he had had the impudence to run for office against a white man —-................... —.................. 43 was stopping at the house of Birch Overby, who had been whipped twice, the last time within two months previous: did not know the men who whipped him, (witness;) supposed there were fifteen or sixteen of them, all disguised, with red, white, or black gowns, and a sort of face and cap joined together, with eye and mouth holes; they were all armed; did not wake up till they were in the house; supposed they lived in the vicinity.-. —---. —. ——. 44 they whipped Overby because he notified an old man that the Ku-Klux were coming, and because he had been given ajob of work fn preference to a white man.-..... —------- —......-......-. —-.-.-.................... 45 the disguised men went with witness back to the house after they had whipped him, and told him if he did not keep his promise they would kill him the next time they got hold of him: three colored men whipped and one killed by disguised men, in spring of 1871, at Wauhatchie Station, six miles west of Chattanooga... —-----...-................. —....., 45 the man who was killed was son-in-law of Isaac Beeson; Beeson was afterward whipped, and was told it was because he was getting almost too saucy 46 in January or February, 1871, Joe Coulter was whipped because he had married a white woman; about same time another man was whipped, (has since died,) because he had had a dispute with a white man; another man whipped by disguised men June, 1871.............-.......................... 47 a white man by the name of Brubaker was badly whipped by disguised men, because he had separated from his wife ---....-.. --—.......-. 48 never saw band of disguised men but once; the general understanding of the community is that the object is to intimidate voters, as they are always worst about time of elections; colored men have been told, "You vote that ticket and you will be Ku-Kluxed to-night;" colored people are afraid of the Ku-Klux 48 the great mass of colored people want to vote the republican ticket. -—....- 48,49 witness was in Chattanooga in 1866, and recollects the canvass for governor; Mr. Etheridge, the democratic candidate, was not mobbed......... 49 does not remember hearing that any democratic meeting was broken up by the militia —- -.....-..-... ----..............................-.......... 49, 50 thinks the democrats broke up one meeting in Chattanooga; rather a hard thing for a colored man to vote the democratic ticket when colored men are present; have known colored men to be deceived by being given wrong tickets 50 FORREST, N. B., testimony of.......................................... 3-41 resident of Memphis, Tennessee...-..-............................... 3 president of two railroads, now consolidated.......... -... —......-. 4 in 1866 engaged in planting; in 1867 president of fire insurance company; in 1868 went into the railroad business ----...........-..-..... —......... 25 concerning letter of correspondent of Cincinnati Commercial, purporting to give an account of an interview with witness, and his statements about the Ku-Klux in Tennessee and the South -............................. 4,5,19, 20,25 I B

Page  II II INDEX. FORREST N. B., testimony of-Continued. age. obtained a knowledge of the Ku-Klux, by some called "Pale Faces," of a man named Saunders, then a resident of Mississippi, and who afterward died of poison in Asheville, North Carolina; understood it was an offset to Loyal Leagues...................... 6 the Ku-Klux were first organized in the latter part of 1867, or early in 1868; citizens of Southern States belonged to the organization; members of the order it was rumored rode in disguise; men were killed in Tennessee and Mississippi by bands of men in disguise; heard of a case of Ku-Klux in 1867 in Hoily Springs, Mississippi. —-—.................... 7 heard of a man being taken from jail and hung in Greensborough, Alabama-. 7, 8 killing of Boyd, at Eutaw, Alabama. --—...-...-..-...................8..- 8 received anonymously a constitution of the order.. —----—................. 8 burned the copy of constitution or prescript. -8,10 it was the constitution of a secret organization; the name of the order not printed, but place indicated by stars where the name was to be inserted; the copy received was mailed from some place in Middle Tennessee.......... 9 it was called a prescript, and provided for subordinate camps, lodges, or divisions. —... —.. -..-...................................... 10 declines to give the name of any member of the organization; prescript referred to a ritual, and there were signs and pass-words; have seen the signs used for purpose of recognition between individuals; cannot give any of the signs - 11 received the signs from Saunders; exerted influence to suppress the organization: saw and recognized the signs in Tennessee. — — 12 have heard of men being whipped for stealing, for whipping their wives, and negroes whipped for committing outrages; understood that the men who killed Boyd in Alabama were disguised; understood that men in Tennessee were disguised, some with masks, some with high caps, and with black or red gowns, or white sheets; do not think there was any uniform; have not read the correspondent's article in the Cincinnati Commercial concerning interview with witness since shortly after its publication. —....... 13 have been actively engaged for some years in building railroads, and establishing factories and founderies..-..-................... 14 concerning proclamation of Governor Brownlow calling out the militia. ——. 14,15 the organization of Ku-Klux gotten up for protection of the people; disbanded in latter part of 1868.......................................... 15 did not vote in 1868; was disfranchised.................................. 16 a band of men in 1871 troubled Judge Blackford, in Greensborough,Alabama. 16,17,18 attack on Flournoy, in Pontiac, Mississippi, by a band of disguised men, one of whom was killed.... 17 accepted parole at time of surrender, and was pardoned by President Johnson in 1868; made application to Governor Sharkey to obtain pardon........ 19,20 has not been in good health since the war.... 21 does not know where the Ku-Klux originated or who started it; think it originated in Middle Tennessee; heard of the Knights of the White Camelia, but never was a member; joined the Pale Faces in 1867, in Memphis.......... 22 never was in a meeting of Pale Faces but once or twice; do not recollect any of the signs, grips or pass-words..................... 23 object of the organization was to prevent a war of races, and a general slaughter of women and children....... 24,29 those who were in the rebel army aud afterward joined the republicans are generally called " scalawags;" men from the North are called "carpet-baggers" 25 suppressed the order of Pale Faces —................. 27 satisfied the order does not now exist-............... 30 witness is shown prescript of * *, and at first admits its general resemblance to copy of prescript received by him in 1867; afterwards expresses doubts 28 negroes generally submissive and quiet........................... 29 men of character and position organized to prevent disorders.-............. 29, 30 difficulty at Crawfordsville, Mississippi, between citizens and negroes....... 31 letter of correspondent of Cincinnati Commercial giving details of interview with witness............................................... 32,33,34 letter of witness correcting account of correspondent.................... 35 prescript of * *.- -....................................... 35-41 FRENCH, JOHN R., testimony'of..............,............... 50-53 Sergeant-at-arms of the United States Senate; has been engaged in summoning witnesses to appear before the joint select committee on alleged outrages in the late insurrectionary States............................. 50

Page  III INDEX. III Page. FRENCH. JOHN R., testimony of-Continued. particulars concerning his efforts to secure the attendance of W. L. Saunders, of North Carolina. ——.. —-- -—.. ——......- -..... —-- ---... 50,51 same in regard to J. W. Avery, of South Carolina.........-...... ------- - -. 51 same in regard to F. N. Sturdwick, of North Carolina.-. -.-.....51,52, 53 same in regard to John Manning, jr., and D. Schenck, of North Carolina..... 53 REEMELIN, CHARLES, testimony of. —----—................................... 1-3 resident of Cincinnati, Ohio; correspondent of Cincinnati Commercial....... 1 farmer and merchant, and now living on a small country place.............. 3 traveled through the States of Kentucky, Tennessee, South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana; visited editors of democratic papers, particularly editors of German papers; visited Alexander H. Stephens, and saw Herschel V. Johnson, and Mr. Toombs; travel confined principally to railroad and the larger cities and towns; found the laws well executed; visited two plantations near New Orleans where coolies were at work............. 1 a great deal of irritation and dissatisfaction of a political nature through the entire South; the people dissatisfied with the way the Government has treated them; the condition of affairs in South Carolina was represented to witness to be almost insufferable; property offered for sale at less than the appraised value; no intention to go back into rebellion............................ 2 the South is settling down into a comfortable social condition; saw Mr. Trenholm in Charleston, and Mr. Semmes in Mobile; did not visit the troubled districts in South Carolina. —...........3.... —. —.... —--—.... 3 FLORIDA. A. Affidavi of Samuel Fleischman............................................ 82 African Methodist Episcopal convention -... —-—. —-----.... -----...-..-. 166 Alachua County, disturbance at election in ——. —.. —-—. —-... ——. —-—. 159,293 Alachua County, negro hanged in.-... —..... —-- --- -—.. ——. — 159,163,225,292 Alachua County, outrages in, (see Killed, Shot, and Whipped.) Alachua County, political complexion of. —-..-...-.. —...... —..... ——. 271 Allison, ---, killed in Madison County, 1871...-.. ——..-. —---—. —-.116,126,259 Amnesty........................................................ 151 Arms for State militia taken from railroad train and destroyed —. —-—.......122,124,167 Ashley, ---, killed in La Fayette County, 1871............... 179 B. Baker County, outrages in, (see Whipped.) Baker County, political complexion of. —-... —-—... —.-.-...... —-. 68 Bibbon, George C., killed in Alachua County, 1867 -.... —. ——.-... ---—. 268 Birney, William H., attack upon, 1870...........-...-................. —.159,161,201 BISBEE, H., jr., testimony of.... ——.. —-—.. —-..-. ——. —. ——.. —------ 305, 306 thirty-two years old; born in Maine; resident of Jacksonville, Florida; attorney at law, and United States district attorney for northern district of Florida.-..-... ——........... —--.......................- 305 character and acts of Judge Long. —- --—. - --—.......... -.-. —. 305 no more infamous man than Judge Long in Florida...... —---- -- —. —-—. 306 Bonds, railroad............ —----......-...-..... — 210,249,250,251,252,302 Bradley, Willey, killed in Alachua County, 1868 —... —........................ 268 Bryan, William, shot in Jackson County, 1869.............................. 80,290 Bryant, --, killed in Madison County, 1870....-... —. —-..... —-...... — 135 BRYANT, HOMER, (colored,) testimony of -.. —. —--- --—.-..... 302-305 about fifty-eight years old; born in North Carolina; lived in Florida for twenty years, and in Jackson County for about fifteen years -—.... —.. —....... 302 threats to kill witness because he was a leading republican.-... - 302 sixty or seventy-five murders in Jackson County; murder of Dr. Finlayson and Mr. Dickinson; colored man and child killed while going to a picnic- 303 particulars concerning murder of Mr. Dickinson........................... 304 BRYSON, WILLIAM, testimony of.-................................ —-..... 258-260 sixty years old; born in North Carolina; resident of Suwannee County, and judge of third judicial district of Florida. ---... —------ --------—. 258 not much of a republican; in one sense not a radical; not a democrat....-. 260 the administration of the laws hindered by an organization generally termed Ku-Klux;' was told some of the signs and secrets by a man in Columbia County............................................................. 25&

Page  IV IV INDEX. Page. BRYSON, WILLIAM, testimony of-Continued. Page. the Ku-Klux organization is in the interest of the democratic party; Mr. Alli son killed ---—.-............................. 259 burnings of stores, &c -................................- 127 C. Calhoun County, disturbance at election in -.. -............. 148 Calhoun County, James Yerty, killed in, 1871-................. 83,190 CHILDS, J. W., testimony of.......-.................... 291-293 thirty-six years old; born in New York; resident of Gainesville, Alachua County; merchant; deputy marshal for the last year and a half ---.... 291 came to Florida in 1866; was in the United States service during the war; deputy tax-collector for the State, and deputy United States marshal..... 292 while executing process in Columbia County was resisted by the parties, who drew pistols.. —- -—.- ----.. —... — -- - -—....... -—........-...- 291 two of the party have not yet been arrested; one came in and gave himself up; have reason to suppose there is a Ku-Klux organization, but no positive knowledge of the fact; some nine or ten murders committed in Hamilton County during 1868 and 1869, for which no arrests have been made; last winter a mob in Alachua County took a colored man from jail and hung him; a colored man was shot a few weeks ago........................... 292 has been forcibly resisted but once while serving process.. —-.. —---..- 392 a body of armed men drove the republicans from the polls at election of November, 1870. —. —. —----..... —----..........-................. —---- 293 Clay County, outrages in, (see Whipped.) Clay County, political complexion of-.................................. 59 Colored schools —.......-... --...-...............96,97,99,102,106,168,253 Colored voters, feeling in regard to.. —. ——.. —-... —-.95,102,169,196,267,310 Columbia County, disturbance of election in...........................148, 165,225,261 Columbia County, outrages in, (see Killed and Whipped.) CONE, FLORIDA E., testimony of..................-. 72,75 born in Darien, McIntosh County, Georgia; twenty-seven years old; now residing in Jacksonville, Florida. ——. —--—.. —--.-..-. -. —...... 72 wife of R. W. Cone; at the time her husband was whipped, she was knocked down and kicked by disguised men, and her hair pulled; they took her husband out of doors, and pulled his night-shirt up over his head and arms; when she started to follow her husband, William Tyson threatened to blow her brains out if she did not remain in the house; Kindred Griffis dragged her across the floor of her room, and has not yet been arrested; her husband was away from the house about three-quarters of an hour; his back was covered with stripes and cut as with a buckle; supposed he was whipped with a stirrup-leather...... —-...... —--...................... —. 73 the neighbors heard their cries, but did not come to their relief; there were seven or eight in the crowd; it was on the 24th of June, 1871; four of the party have been arrested and put under bonds; made her statement before the United States commissioner.. —---—......... —-—........... 74 those of the crowd she recognized were men who stood well with the people of that community; they were laboring men............................... 75 CONE, R. W., testimony of.. -65-72 born December 0, 1836, in Georgia; carpenter by trade; came to Jacksonville, June 29, 1871; had lived in Baker County, Florida, since October, 1868.... 65 was a petit juror of the district court, and a republican -..-..... —.. —...- 66 on the night of June 24, 1871, a band of twenty or more disguised men canie to his house, between 10 and I o'clock, broke open the door, came into his bed-room, and one knocked him down with a club, and also struck his wife with a club; took him out of doors, pulled his night-shirt up over his head and arms, carried him away from the house, laid him across a log, while one had hold of each arm, one hold of his head, and another of his feet; they whipped him with a leather strap, supposed to be a stirrup-leather with the buckle on; charged him with being a witness in a United States court against a white man, and being in favor of negroes voting; asked him if he kept a black girl. —-.. —...-.. —-..... —--...-.............. -...-.. -- 65 went home, sold out his place for what he could get, went to Jacksonville, and made complaint before a commissioner; received over a hundred blows; had three children, and his wife wag pregnant at the time: got out a warrant and had four of the parties arrested..- -... — --.................... —.... -... 66 could not obtain justice in the State courts, as the disguised men swear for each other and clear themselves; most of the white people in Baker County speak in favor of the Ku-Klux, or regulators, as they are called there; two others, Smith and Griffis, whipped about six weeks before................ 67

Page  V INDEX. V Page. CONE, R. W., testimony of-Continued. have not voted since election for governor in 1868; Baker County is threefourths white and democratic; a few negroes vote the democratic ticket; no northern men in the county....................................... 68 while at Pilatka was notified by "K. K. K." to leave in twenty-four hours; four or five months after going to Baker County, received a notice to leave in ten days; prepared himself and let it be known, and was not troubled until he was whipped; was on the United States jury in Jacksonville -......... 70 it was a mixed jury; do not know the politics of the jurors; in 1861 was living in Jacksonville; in May, 1861, went to Baker County and remained there until the confederate congress passed a conscript law, to evade which went to a commissary depot and got a contract to grind meal and flour for the government; in latter part of 1862, confederate congress passed another conscript law, and to evade it took an agency on the railroad; in 1864, confederate troops arrested him and sent him to the army in Virginia, where he remained four weeks.................................................... 71 went into the confederate army as a conscript; was not in any battle, and second time on picket crossed the lines and remained north until the close of the war; took no oath to the confederate government; did some writing for officers; made out pay-roll. —------—.............-............... 72 Cone, R. W., whipped in Baker County, 1871.........................65,73,74 Cox, George, shot in Jackson County, 1869.. —-........... ——............. 145,290 Cuummings, Christopher, killed in Alachua County, 1870................. 268 D. Democratic club. —-..-..... —-.. —-. 1 —--— 156-164,226-240,265,266,293,295,298 DENNIS, L. G., testimony of -....-.........-............. —....-. 267-272 thirty years old; born in Massachusetts; resident of Gainesville, Alachua County, Florida, since January, 1866; deputy collector of United States revenue and State senator.... —---—. —-- ----....... -— 267 came to Florida from Massachusetts in 1866; was in the Army during the war; engaged in planting when first came to Florida; State collector of revenue for 1870.-......... -.-........................ 270 there are strong prejudices against colored people, and against northern people who are republicans; a great many murders committed.. ——...... 267 letter of witness to secretary of state of Florida, giving account of outrages committed in Alachua County since reconstruction...................... 267,268 list of murders, committed, with dates; four or five persons tried for murder and acquitted; threatening letters to witness, signed "K. K. K "....... 268 a political meeting fired into by a mob, and three colored men shot......... 269 the vote of the county is about 3,000. —.................................. 270 colored voters 600 majority; republican majority about 1,000; 700 in 1870, about 1,200 in 1868; did not recognize the handwriting of Ku-Klux letters; believes there is a Ku-Klux organization in the county, and that the letters emanated from that organization. —.................................. 271 there was a mock trial of witness in the street of Lake City, at midnight, by persons representing Ku-Klux......................................... 271,272 Dickinson, J. Q., killed in Jackson County, 1871....78,85, 111,148,192, 198,.206,217,221, 303,309 Dickinson, J. Q., letters from......................................78,221,289,290,291 Dickinson, J. Q., testimony concerning character of.............84,199,222 Disturbances at elections in Calhoun County. --..-. —--.,.. —.-. 148 at elections in Columbia County.. ——...- -... —-.............148,165,225,261 at elections in Gadsden County... —-.........-...-........ 76,77, 7,187 at elections in Hamilton County....-...... ----—.-..... —................ 149 at elections in Jackson County —... —..... —...-............. 309 at elections in Jefferson County... — -—. —.. —---....-... —..-..... 103,104 at elections in Madison County.-.... -.. -...... 1.... 27,132 DOUGLAS, SAMUEL J., testimony of. —----—. —-—......... 293-302 in fifty-eighth year of age; born in Virginia; resident of Tallahassee, Florid'a; a llawyer......................... —........ — ---............... 293 appointed by President Tyler judge of United States court for Florida when twenty-seven years of age. —--—....................................... 296 went into the rebellion, and appointed confederate military judge at Mobile; disabilities removed by Congress.-..........-....................... 297 belonged to democratic club in Tallahassee nearly three years acgo; continued a member for six or eight months; the club disbanded on recommendation of witness; it was a semi-military organization, and had a written constitution; is shown copy of constitution, (furnished, by Frank Myers) and thinks it is substantially the same as constitution of democratic club at Tallahassee. 294

Page  VI VI INDEX. Page. DOUGLAS, SAMUEL J., testimony of-Continued. explanation of provisions of the constitution and objects of the organization. 295, 298 opinion of Judge Long............ 296 justice is impartially administered to all classes......-............... 299 any inefficiency in execution of laws caused by want of proper officers; canvass of votes at last election......... — 3........ 300 taxation and State indebtedness —--—...............-....... 301 issue of railroad bonds...............-............................... 302 E. Edwards, --, killed in La Fayette County, 1871...........1........ 197 Elections, disturbances at, (see Disturbances at elections.) Execution of the laws...................................114, 165,208,258,299, 300,310 F. Ferryman killed............................................... 77,89 Finances and taxes of the State..-. —--.... —-... —.. —.. —--.208,209,242,301 Finlayson, Dr., killed in Jackson County, 1869.... -.78, 94, 111,144, 147,188, 217,303 Pleischman, Samuel, affidavit of............................................. 82 Fleischman, Samuel, killed in Jackson County, 1869......,..-78,81,145,189,217 FORSON, ROBERT, testimony of.-............-............................ 307,308 twenty-three years old; born in Georgia; resident for fifteen years of Columbia County, Florida; a farmer............................... 307 on the night of July 2, 1870, a party of men took him from his father's house, stripped him, and whipped him with a leather strap.................... 307 the parties have been arrested, tried, and acquitted......-... 308 Forson, Robert. whipped in Columbia County, 1870.............. 164,307 FORTUNE, EMANUEL, (colored,) testimony of-... —-—. —..... ——..... 94-101 going on thirty-nine years old; born in Jackson County, and.now lives in Jacksonville; formerly a shoemaker, now a carpenter; left Jackson County, May, 1869, on account of threats; was a member of State constitutional convention and of State legislature.. —.-............................ 94 born and raised a slave; learned to read before the war, and after the war learned to write...........................................-.......... 95 began to learn to write in 1867; was elected to constitutional convention in 1868; elected to the legislature from Jackson County, with Major Purman and Mr. McMillan, white, and Mr. Robinson, colored..-................... 97 term in legislature expired November, 1870.. —-.. —------.... —..... 98 in Jackson County Dr. Finlayson was killed and Major Purman shot; Calvin Rogers, colored, killed; three men called out of their houses and shot; some shot through cracks of their houses, others shot as they were going to their houses; prison guard and two citizens killed........................... 94 general feeling in Jackson County against colored men voting; Barnes, who ran against Hamilton for Congress, said colored men had no rights white men are bound to respect; no one in Jackson County punished for outrages; believes there is an organization to kill off leading republicans; schools interfered with since emancipation.-...... —......................... —-- 95 had a man from New Orleans to teach school; some soldiers were detailed to teach; never had any public schools, only private schools supported by the colored people; schools not interfered with lately; colored people cannot buy small parcels of land in Jackson County -.. —----—.. —-. — —..... —. 96 the State has made provision for system of public schools, but none has yet been established.................................-..-... -97 about 1,200 or 1,400 colored voters in Jackson County, out of a total voting population of 2,100; witness took a leading part in politics in the county, and twice canvassed the State; has not been interfered with directly; there was some disturbance when holding a public meeting with Colonel Hamilton in Walton County -—....... —-- -—.. — ---------------. —--- 98 soldiers of the Seventh United States Cavalry were detailed to teach school; last troops removed from Jackson County soon after Dr. Finlayson was killed; never saw any disguised men; young man shot in summer of 1868 or 1869; have heard of others being killed but cannot give their names -..... —. 99 have not heard anything said against selling land to negroes, but think that is the understanding; Major Purman was objected to because he was a prominent republican leader; there is the same objection to southern men who join the republican party as against northern men.-.................... 100 Foster,, killed in La Fayette County, 1871......................... 179

Page  VII INDEX. VII Page. Francis, Timothy, killed in Columbia County, 1869-...................... 268 Franklin, Harry, killed in Alachua County, 1868.......................268 Freedmen's Bureau.................,.......................... 88,93,149,232,281 G. Gadsden County, disturbances at election in..............................76, 77, 87, 187 Gadsden County, political complexion of —..... ——.. —.. —-. ——.... —. —--- 76, 88 Gent, ----, killed.... —................... -.. —.......... —--—.......... 126 GIBBS, J. C., (colored,) testimony of —.............-...................... —. 220-224 forty-two years old; born in Philadelphia; resident of Tallahassee, Florida.. 220 came to Florida in 1867; lived down on the river till made secretary of state, and then removed to State capital; lived in Philadelphia till sixteen or eighteen years old; educated at Dartmouth College, and studied theology at Princeton, New Jersey; was there nearly two years, as a regularly matriculated student, but did not graduate; went to Philadelphia as pastor of a Presbyterian church; when G.eneral Burnside took New Berne was selected by Old-school Presbyterian Church to go there and open schools and churches; operated in North and South Carolina till latter part of 1867, and then came to Florida in connection with the school interest in Florida; member of constitutional convention..-......... —.. —-................................ —. 923 delegate to convention of ministers and laymen of Afiican Church....-.... 224 have seen men supposed to be Ku-Klux; one man said he was a member of the organization, and a commissioner refused to take his statement, because the facts to which he would testify occurred before the passage of Ku-Klux law by Congress; murder of Dickinson; letter from Dickinson concerning affairs in Jackson County....-................. —........... 221 the charge made against Dickinson after his murder was a slander; it is a common thing, after a republican has been killed, to try and blacken his memory by charging some offense upon him; the number of murders in different counties..............-.-...-...... —--— 2...... 22 the colored people in Florida are better off than in any other Southern State; a large class of poor whites are in a more hopeless condition in Florida than the blacks are; during the war a class of Union men lived in Taylor and La Fayette Counties, who were raided upon by confederate troops and driven off; threats made that no Union man should live in those counties; Dr. Kreminger killed; colored schools doing well under the circumstances; most of the teachers come from the North, but they are ostracized; there is a change for the better in regard to colored people owning land........... 223 at first election in Jackson County 200 white men voted republican ticket, which had 800 majority; at last election the republican majority was but two or three; most of the white republicans have been killed or driven from the county; not more than five white republicans voted in Jackson County at last election; compiled list of murders in different counties from private letters, generally from prominent men; the murders were committed sice the close of the war, and the number is understated......... —-.... —-.... 224 Granbury, Oscar, killed in Jackson County, 1869.-......................... 79,140,290 Green, James, killed in Columbia County, 1869................................ 165,263 Griffis, -, whipped in Baker County, 1871........-...................... 67 H. Hall, Abram, killed in Jackson County, 1871.................................. 278 HAMILTON, Hon. C. M., testimony of...................................... 281-291 Representative in Forty-first Congress-..-.. —........-................ 288 drew up contracts for laborers in Jackson County, as assistant commissioner of Freedmen's Bureau.-..........-........................... 281,285,286,287 particulars of examination of young ladies in Marianna, Jackson County, for desecrating graves of Union soldiers.........................-......... 282,285 articles from Marianna Courier....................................... 283,284,285 views concerning southern people............................-........ 288 effect of course of Andrew Johnson..................................... 289 letters from Mr. Dickinson concerning outrages in Jackson County...... 289,290,291 Hamilton County, disturbance at election in —--....................-...... —- 149 Hanging of a negro in Alachua County, 1871, (see Killed, Alex Morris.) Hanging of negroes in Hernando County, 1869............................... 162 Harold, Harry, son of, killed in Alachua County.............................. 198 Hacock, Sandy, killed in Alachua County, 1871-......................... 268 Hurl, Henry, killed in Alachua County, 1869..-............................... 268 Hurl, Joseph, killed in Alachua County, 1869.-............ 268

Page  VIII VIII INDEX, I. Page. Ipswich, Ike, killed in Columbia County, 1869................................ 263 J. Jacobs, Thomas, killed in Columbia County, 1868............................. 263 Jackson County, disturbance at election in.................................... 309 Jackson County, outrages in, (see Killed, Shot, and Whipped.) Jackson County, political complexion of. ----—.. —- ---—.. ——......................98,152,195,224 Jefferson County, disturbance at election in. —-- -. ——. —--..-..-...... 103,104 Jefferson County, political complexion of....-..... -.........1.......... 105 Jenkins, Jim, killed in Alacllua County, 1870 -............................... 268 Johnson, Cooley, killed in Alachua County, 1867.. — —.. — -—.......... —. 268 JOHNSON, E. G., testimony of. -—.....- --- —.. —-- -.. —-. 260-267 thirty-one years old; born in North Carolina; resident of Lake City, Columbia County, Florida; doctor by profession; member of the State senate; resident of Lake City since 1867......................-.. —........... 260 county commissioner of Columbia County for about six months -.... 266 since he has been connected with political matters, for the last sixteen or eighteen months, not felt much security............................. 260 on day of election was threatened by armed men; gives in full a threatening notice received in the spring of 1871 -... —-. —-—. ——... —-. —----- 261 believes the author of the notice to be Martin P. Doby, a lawyer of Lake City; it was postmarked Jacksonville; received another notice that was never shown to any one.. —. - - -—.- -- --. —-.. 262 six or seven murders in Columbia County; Thomas Jacobs and Samson Weaver (colored) killed fall of 1868; Lisher Johnson, (colored,) spring of 1869; Timothy Francis, Ike Ipswich, and James Green, (colored,) fall of 1869; Robert Jones, (colored,) summer of 1870; Mahoney, republican member of the legislature, killed; Robert Prolson and Isaac Bush,republicans, whipped; marshal of Lake City shot at; house of witness fired into; houses burned; two hundred or three hundred colored men fled the county for safety; no person punished for any of these crimes-...-....- -.......... 263 particulars of attack on house of witness; Martin, former sheriff,, resigned on account of threats, and would not consider it safe to testify before the committee; believes there is a Ku-Klux organization in the county -....... —-- 264 believes it originated from democratic clubs; the character of Judge Long is very bad; Frank Myers compelled to act against witness by threats; Myers formerly a democrat; concerning threatening letter received in spring of 1871, and which witness caused to be published in a newspaper. -...2........ 65 there was one voting place in county at last election; derived knowledge of democratic club from Frank Myers --—.. —------ --—........ —............... 266 one voting place only for the county was established at county seat for better protection of colored people; does not think colored people would be safe at country voting places —.... —-.... —... —-—. —-... —--—..-..-.. —-- 267 Johnson, Lisher, killed ih Columbia County, 1869............................ 263 Jones, Robert, killed in Columbia County, 1870. 263 K. Killed: Allison -—, Madison County, 1871......1...1.....................11 6,26,59 Ashley, -, La Fayette County, 1871................................ 179 Bibbon, George, Alachua County, 1867................................... 268 Bradley, Willey, Alachua County, 1868. —----—.. —--.............. ——.. 268 Bryant, -, Madison County, October, 1870... —-......... ---- —.... —-. 135 Cummings, Christopher, Alachua (County, 1870 —-.. —-... ——...... —-- 208 Dickinson, J. Q., Jackson County, April, 1871......78,85,111,148,192,198,206,217, 221, 303,309 Edwards, ---, La Fayette County, 1871................. —............ 179 ferrynman.-..-.....-.. —.....-.... —-. —-—. ——.. —---—.... —---—. 77, 89 Finlayson, Dr., Jackson County, May, 1869..... 78,94, 111, 144, 147,188,217,303 Fleischman, Samuel, Jackson County, October, 1869. ——.. —-. 78, 81,145, 189,217 Foster,, La Fayette County, 1871............ —-- 179 Francis, Timothy, Columbia County, 1869.......... —-.'263 Franklin, Harry, Alachua County, 1868 —......-.. —---..-.......... —-.. 268 Gent, ---............................................ —--. 126 Granbury, Oscar, Jackson County, October, 1869........................ 79,140,290 Green, James, Columbia County, 1869..-....................... 165,263

Page  IX INDEX. IX Page. Killed-Continued. Hall, Abram, Jackson County, 1871...................................... 278 Harold, Harry, son of, Alachua County.................................. 198 Hacock, Sandy, Alachua County, September, 1871....................... 268 Hurl, Henry, Alachua County, 1869.................................... 268 Hurl, Joseph, Alachua County, 1869............................ 268 Ipswich, Ike, Columbia County, 1869................................... 263 Jacobs, Thomas, Columbia County, 1868..................-............ 263 Jenkins, Jim, Alachua County, 1870............................... 268 Johnson, Cooley, Alachua County, 1867.................................. 266 Johnson, Lisher, Columbia County, 1869................................. 263 Jones, Robert, Columbia County, 1870..........................-.... 263 Kreminger, J. N., La Fayette County, October, 1871............ j168,177,223 Lee, Jacob, Alachna County, 1867...................................... 268 Livingston, Stewart, Jackson County, September, 1869-...78,145,150,289, 303 Lucy, W. M, Alachua County............................. 197,268 McClellan, Miss Maggie, Jackson County, October, 1869....-.78,145,150,191,207, 290,309 Mahoney, —, Columbia County.............................263 Morris, Alexander, Alachua County, January, 1871............ 159, 163,225,263,292 Nichols, Maria, Jackson County, October, 1869..................80,110,140,145,291 Nichols, Matt, Jackson County, October, 1869.-.... —.......... 80,110,140,145,291 Nichols, Matt, jr., Jackson County, October, 1869............ 80,110,140,145,291 Nichols, Oscar........................................ 112 Persons not named.....-...............-.............111517,9,120,145,179,278 Prison guard and two colored men -...................................... 94,188 Quiet, —, Madison County................................. 126 Rogers, Calvin, Jackson County, October, 1869-........80,94,112,148,150,192,207 Simonton, Harry, Alachua County, 1867................... 268 Smith, Gordon, Alachua County, November, 1868-....................268 Smith, Richard, Madison County -....... —...................-...... 126 Stephens, —, Alachua County, November, 1868.......................... 268 Sullivan, Caesar, Alachua County, October, 1868........................ 268 Tension, Oscar, Madison County. - -----—... —--..-...........,- 126 Washington, Henry, Alachua County, October, 1871 -...................... 268 Weaver, Samson, Columbia County, 1868.. —-..............-..-........... 263 Yerty, James W., Calhoun County, March, 1871.......................... 83,190 Young, Wyatt, Jackson County, September, 1869. ——........ —. 78, 145,150,289,303 Kreminger, J. N., killed in La Fayette County, October, 1871................. 168, 177, 223 KREMINGER, REBECCA N., testimony of................................. 176-184 forty-one years old; born in Darlington District, South Carolina; resident of La Fayette County, Florida; widow of late Dr. Kreminger............... 176 lived in La Fayette County since December, 1865....................... 177 her husband, Dr. John Newton Kreminger, was a native of North Carolina, and graduated in South Carolina; was in the United States service as commissary sergeant; enlisted in Mississippi; was drafted in confederate service from South Carolina, but crossed the lines at first opportunity; was fifty-three years old 16th of September, 1871; was elected to the legislature, and when killed was county judge; was a member of State constitutional convention; was killed on the morning of-October 5, 1871, while sitting on the piazza of his house.................................. —.. —----..... 177 was shot by J. C. Poncher; Dr. Kreminger was a leading republican in the county; witness believes other parties were privy to his being killed; Dr. Kreminger was objectionable to others on account of his politics; a true bill has been found against Poncher for killing Dr. Kreminger................ 178 he has not been arrested; her husband told witness if he was killed it would be slyly; his was the eighth murder in little more than two years; Samuel Edwards, Mr. Ashlcy, and Mr. Foster, republicans, killed in 1871; a colored man was killed in Old Town by another colored man; there are not many northern men in the county. ——................................. 179 lived in Darlington District, South Carolina, at the commencement of the war, and came to Florida in 1865; Dr. Kreminger at once went into political life; Poncher was clerk of the court for a time, and was removed through influence of Dr. Kreminger, oth account of acts in office. ——................. 180 the character of Poncher was bad; he was a drinking-man; he shot Dr. Kreminger about 7 o'clock in the morning, from court-house window, forty yards distant --.... —--- --- —... —. —... —----- ---....-.-.......-.....-.. 181 witness' gave testimony before grand jury, and true bill was found against Poncher; Poncher was a democrat..................................... 182

Page  X X INDEX. Page. KIEMINGER, REBECCA N, testimony of-Continued. the killing of Edwards and Foster was said to have been done by Dick Hunter and Henry Parker, who were indicted; have heard of the Ku-Klux and of people who boasted of being Ku-Klux; the murders committed are supposed to have been by the Ku-Klux organization; believes the murder of her husband was on account of his politics................................. —-. 183 has no personal knowledge of Ku-Klux................................... 184 Ku-Klux outrages, (see Killed, Shot, and Whipped.) Ku-Klux threatening letters..-.................................70, 85,129, 261,262, 268 L. Land, sale of, to negroes... —......................................... 96, 100, 101, 167 Law, congressional Ku-Klux...........................................- - 93 Laws, execution of -.. —-.. — -------- 114,165,208,258,299,300,310 Lee, Jacob, killed in Alachua County, 1867..-..-...... —---------......-.... 268 Leon County, political complexion of..-................ —..... 230 Lincoln Brotherhood.-.................. ---- -.................... —-. 187,193 Livingston, Stewart, killed in Jackson County, 1869 --....... —...... 78,145, 150,289,303 LONG, T. T., testimony of. —.. ——...-...... — —..-. ——. —-. 202-220 appointed judge of fourth judicial circuit in 1870; before that time was judge of the third circuit, and before that of the Suwannee circuit.. —........... 202 pardoned by Congress, upon recommendation of military officers, and is a reconstructionist................................................. -... 203 disabilities removed by Congress; had been State senator in Georgia, but held no office under the United States; was a secessionist and in the war; first came to Florida when two or three years old; removed when about twenty years old, and came back in 1859........................ —-. ——.. 212 was a democrat, afterward a secessionist, and since the war has acted with the republican party, till lately............ —--------- - 213 sentiment of the community generally peaceable and orderly; northern men who behave themselves have no trouble; juries are mixed, and colored jurors more inclined to convict than white jurors; no discrimination in the courts on accoant of politics; colored men can obtain justice as well as white men... 203 have known B. F. Tidwell, county judge, since he was a boy; before the.war Tidwell was a professional gambler; not much regard for the veracity of Frank Myers; many cases of homicide in district of witness; the case of Goodbread, in Columbia County, only case before witness in which there was any politics. —-....................... —---------- 204 police officer killed by Dixon, colored; a white man killed another white man, both democrats; Henry Mill killed another negro; McGwin killed another negro; Jenkins killed Winter, both colored; men of the same political party will kill each other; seven out of ten crimes are committed by colored people; troubles in Jackson Count...-........................... —------ 205 have heard that the governor said that Purman and, Hamilton caused the difficulties in Jackson County...... 205,217 the course of Major Purman, and others like him, has exasperated the blacks against'the whites; believes that Dickinson was killed by Bryant, colored, on account of colored woman kept by Dickinson-...... —.. —.. —- --—. 206 not aware of anything in the condition of Jackson County to prevent a full investigation of cause of Dickinson's death;,Calvin Rogers, colored, killed Miss McClellan and wounded Mr. McClellan, and was killed while attempting to run away.......................... - 207 most stringent criminal laws in Florida of any State in the Union....... 208 financial condition of the State..-..... ——. —---—........... —-—...- -. 208,209 tax-payers' convention in Florida. ——... —- --.-. —------. —-.. 208,214,215,219 issue of railroad bonds......................................... 210 concerning taxes; legislature of the State reckless and incompetent; resources of the State squandered..............-..-... —.......- - 211 saw Mr. Tidwell keeping faro-bank in 1859-'60; played faro with him; knows nothing against his character for truth and veracity; would not believe Frank Myers, on account of his vacillation in politics.......... ——.. -. —- 213 a great many homicides in Jackson County since the war; thinks the course of Hamilton and Purman had a great deal to do with them. —.. —....... 215 was told by Mr. McClellan that Dickinson was killed by Bryant, a colored man- 216 murders of Fleischman, Dickinson, and Finlayson......................... 217 case of Samuel Tutson......................................... 218 issued warrant for parties charged with counterfeiting; did not say anything to marshal about letting warrants be stolen from his office................. 219

Page  XI INDEX. XI Page. LONG, T. T., testimony of-Continued. understood that enough democratic votes were thrown out at last election to secure return of Walls, republican, to Congress.......................... 220 Lucy, W. M., killed in Alachua County.............................. 197,268 M. McClellan, James F., shot in Jackson County, 1869..-......78,145,150,188,207,290,309 McClellan, Miss Maggie, killed in Jackson County, 1869....78, 145, 150, 191,207,290, 309 Madison County, disturbance at election in.................................... 127,132 Madison County, outrages in, (see Killed.) Madison County, political complexion of...................................... 123 Mahoney, --, killed in Columbia County..-.. —-..-. —................. 263 Marianna Courier, articles from.......................................... 283,284,285 MARTIN, MALACHI, testimony of.. —-......, --.. —.... —----- 184-195 forty-nine years old; born in Ireland; resident of Chattahoochee, Gadsden County, Florida, and warden of State prison since January 1, 1869.-. —. 18 184 came to Florida in January, 1865, as captain and assistant quartermaster of volunteers; left the Army and went to planting; the only position he has held in the State is warden of State prison-.. —---.. -.-. — ---. —. ——.- 187 received a threatening letter through the mail, postmarked Marianna, Jackson County............. —...-..-............ — 184 received warning from two acquaintances not to go outside of walls of prison until further notice from them; also warned not to go on a fishing excursion; in 1868 the governor purchased in New York some arms for militia, and they were taken from the cars and broken................................... 185 have heard of secret political organizations, such as Union League, Ku-Klux, Brotherhoods, &c.; frequent murders in Jackson County, committed by an organization; have heard persons say they belonged to the democratic club; first heard of it ill 1868........ -.................-........... —... --. -- 186 the political feeling in Gadsden County is very peaceable; some difficulty on day of election; threats made against republicans; Lincoln Brotherhood... 187 in 1i569 some of his guard made arrangements to capture Thomas Barnes, understood to be a Ku-Klux assassin, and supposed to be the murderer of Dr. Finlayson, in Jackson County; two colored men were killed, whose bodies witness buried.......-........................ —---—. —------—... 188 murder of Mr. Fleischman..... —-.. —.........-..... —....-.. —. 189 murder of Mr. Yerty by Luke Lot -...... —........... —---—....... —- 190 murder of Miss McClellan, and wounding of her father... —........... ——. 191 murder of Mr. Dickinson; one black man killed and another wounded; Calvin Rogers, colored, killed; young ladies in Marianna, Jackson County, examined concerning desecration of graves of Union soldiers.................. 92 understood that the Lincoln Brotherhood was formed in 1867 or 1868, and afterward merged in the Union League;* is not a member of the organization; Thomas Barnes shot in a drunken row -...........-...-............. 193 threats made against Major Purman, Mr. Hamilton, Mr. Gibbs, and others; colored man and child shot while going to a picnic, in Jackson County. —- 194 republicans largely in the majority in Jackson County; two-thirds majority at election of Hamilton for Congress; have heard persons say they preferred a monarchy to the Government of the United States..-.................... 195 MEACHAM, ROBERT, (colored,) testimony of..... -.............. 101-109 about thirty-six years old; born in Gadsden County, and lives in Jefferson County, Florida; State senator and register of United States land-office; lived in Jefferson County since May 30, 1866; before that time lived for fifteen years in Tallahassee, and before that in Quincy, Gadsden County, where he was born and raised..................................-..... -- 101 his father was his master, and when he died left witness acting as servant to his master's wife's sister; once sent him to school, but parents of white children objecting, he had to leave school; the first office witness held in Florida was that of registrar, under reconstruction acts, under General Pope; was a member of constitutional convention, and is a member of State legislature; has been superintendent of schools in Jefferson County, and clerk of county court. —-... —-.. —------.. —-. —.-... —--..- -----—... —.. —--—. 105 was a domestic servant till close of the war............................... 108 the colored people are getting along tolerably well; a few are procuring homes for themselves; persons who have land will not sell to colored people, or ask more for it than colored men can pay; colored people have had much trouble about their contracts; they are discharged on the slightest grounds when the crops are laid by in August and September, thus losing their share of the crops..................................................... 101

Page  XII XII INDEX. Page. MEACHAM, ROBERT, (colored,) testimony of-Continued. many colored people are committed to jail by justices of the peace for the most frivolous and trifling things, though but few in Jefferson County; there is not a good feeling on the part of white people in regard to colored people voting; white people say they are in favor of colored schools, but will do nothing to help them, and will not engage in teaching them; teachers of colored schools are treated with contempt -....- --—...........-........... 102 particulars of disturbance at election in Jefferson County, November, 1870.-. 103 about five hundred republicans prevented from voting; all the democrats voted; Colonel Bird indicted by grand jury of United States court for disturbing election.........,..................................... 104 colored vote of Jefferson County about 2,500 or 2,600, and white vote 600 or 700; two colored men and one white man elected to legislature when witness was elected; at last election two colored men and one white man elected to legislature; the colored members-elect can read and write ---—......-. -. 105 there is State provision for public-school system, and State law concerning contracts between employer and laborer.-............... 106 believes that among white employers there is some understanding'to manage so as to prevent colored people from having all they have justly earned; perhaps six white people in Jefferson County vote the republican ticket... 107 white men in Jefferson County pretty much all democrats; men who treat laborers fairly can get all the labor they want.. —...................... 108 Militia, arms for, destroyed. ----.. —..............................122,124,167 MONTGOMERY, DAVID, testimony of —...................... 125-136 thirty-five years old; born in New York; resident of Madison County, Florida; been sheriff of that county over three years. —---. —.. 125 made five hundred arrests. —..-...........-....-...-...-... 126 came to Florida in 1857, and been in the State off and on since then; was a mason, brick-layer, and plasterer before the war......................... 132 was collector of the county for a time........... — --....................... 136 there have been 37 murders in the county, and no person convicted; John T. Glass was tried and acquitted for killing Oscar Tension, colored; the grand jury has found a bill against no other person for murder; three white men, Smith, Quiet, and Allison killed; Smith killed by colored men.......... 126 three white men went to the house of Mr. Allison, about half-past 12 at night, called him out and shot him; four or five persons whipped in upper part of the county, near Georgia line; the last person whipped about 1st of October, 1871; believes there is a Ku-Klux organization in the county; been told so by one person who was solicited to join it; colored man of the name of Gent killed ----.......................-..-.................1............ 126 two years ago the wife and daughter of a colored man named Scarboro were whipped; a man of the name of Sapp told witness there was a Ku-Klux organization in upper part of county and in Georgia; store and stock of goods belonging to witness burned December 17, 1870; store of Mr. Hausman burned November 6, 1871; store of Mr. Katzenburg set on fire twice; the night before the last election seven or eight companies of armed and mounted men came into town, and many colored men were thereby kept from voting; all the victims of murders, whippings, and burnings belong to the republican party —---...........- -..-.. —--.. —-.. —.... —. —..... 127 no jury can be obtained to convict those offenders; witness was fired at one night while going to his residence in the country; his horse was shot in two places, two shots in his buggy, and witness was obliged to remain in the woods all night; could not recognize the party; they were armed with guns and muskets..-....... —.............................. 128 a colored justice of the peace received a letter signed K. K. K., threatening him if he did not resign; a colored deputy sheriff, of the name of Sampson, received a similar letter; Glass was tried in 1869 by a white jury and acquitted on the ground of self-defense.....................-................. 129 there ate perhaps a hundred white republicans in the county, if they could be got to vote; do not know any one who belongs to a secret political organization; heard a man of the name of McClary say " he could toot his horn and get eighty men at his call any time;" he said it while under the influence of liquor; summoned a posse to assist in making an arrest, and they refused - 130 no difficulty in making arrests, if the parties can be reached, think they get information from members of the grand jury and keep out of the way. - - - - 131 armed parties came into town the day before election from different parts of the county; they were armed with pistols, guns, and muskets, and camped in the woods..........................................-............ 132

Page  XIII INDEX. XIII Page. MONTGOMERY, DAVID, testimony of-Continued. have seen no bands of disguised men; it is difficult for a northern man to live in the interior of the State.............................. 133 southern republicans are treated as badly as northern men -.- -.. -- 134 a man by the name of Bryant was killed in October, 1870, and the parties charged with killing him have been arrested......................... 135 they are colored men, and are awaiting trial.............................. 136 Morris, Alexander, hanged in Alachua County, 1871-....................159,163,225,292 MYERS, FRANK, testimony of. —..... —.. ——.......... --—.-. —--- 156-164 thirty-three years old; born in South Carolina; resident of Columbia County, Florida, for about two years; before that time lived in Alachua and Hernado Counties; for a time was traveling agent of the Florida Courier.. - —. 156 was county commissioner at one time; never voted any but democratic ticket, but does not now affiliate with democratic party; holds no office now. —--- 162 joined a democratic club in 1868, in Alachua County, and was invited to join the Secret Service Club, but did not; the objet of Secret Service Club, as explained, was to use force or violence, if necessary, to prevent secretly and effectually certain parties from exerting too great influence with the colored population of that county................................-.. 156 thinks that organization is what is commonly known as Ku-Klux............ 157 constitution of Young Men's Democratic Club.. —-... -----.. ——... 157,158 the oath of the Secret Service Club was not committed to writing. - —..-. 158 the secret service oath was to obey all orders or edicts from the chief of the club, the central chief of the county, or the central chief of the State; also to remove, by any means possible, any obstacle in the way of the success of the democratic party............................................. 159 the attack, in 1870, on William H. Birney, district attorney in the fifth judicial circuit of the State, was stated by one of the parties to be by members of the Secret Service Committee; a negro hung in Alachua County, in the winter of 1870-'71, by the same organization; a copy of the constitution of Young Men's Democratic Club was given to witness, when he removed to Hernando County, in order that he could organize clubs in that county. -- 159 do not know who was at the head of the order; has understood that the State organization was completed; has had nothing to do with the club since 1869; the central chief in Alachua County was Dr. Dudley; signed the constitution in 1868; was then acting with the democratic party; organized two clubs in Hernando County; has no knowledge of Secret Service Committee, except verbal instructions to enable him to organize them.. -....... 160 no disguise was provided; do not know personally of unlawful acts committed by members of the club; obtained the particulars of the attack on General Birney from one of the parties concerned in it............................ 161 secret service oath was not administered to witness, but stated to him in order to enable him to organize clubs; in February, 1869, two negroes were hung by Ku-Klux in Hernando County. -..................................... 162 believes there were half a dozen clubs in Alachua County; do not know the members of the Secret Service Committee; was told by members of the democratic club that members of the Secret Service Committee hung the negro in Alachua County.............................................. 163 each club had a name; witness was one of the first to join the club to which he belonged, which was the first club in the county; does not know where the club originated......... -................................ 164 N. NELSON, JOSEPH, (colored,) testimony of.................................. 136-144 going on twenty-two years of age; born in Calhoun County, Florida, and now resides in Jacksonville; came from Marianna, Jackson County, in 1869, because of an attempt to kill him; followed carpentering and farming in Jackson County..........-................. —---—...... —.. 136 voted at last election, and voted for some officer two years ago, and afterward found that he was not old enough to vote.-..-........... 143 in 1869, Oscar Granberry, Matt Nichols, and wife and son, were killed; and Calvin Rogers'killed; Silas Pitman shot since 1869. ——..........-... —-.. 140 Nichols, Maria. killed in Jackson County, 1869. —.................. 80,110,140,145,291 Nichols, Matt, killed in Jackson County, 1869................80,110, 140,145,291 Nichols, Mlatt, jr.. killed in Jackson County, 1869................... 80,110,140,145,291 Nichols, Oscar, killed...................................... 112 Northerners, feeling toward......................................100,133,134,203, 267

Page  XIV XIV INDEX. 0. Page. Outrages, (see Killed, Shot, and Whipped.) Outrages, no punishment of persons for. 57,62,67,74,83,88,95,110,115,126,128,153, 175,179,197,258,268,273,303,308,310 P. PEARCE, CHARLES H., (colored,) testimony of............................. 165-176 fifty years old; born on Eastern Shore of Maryland; resident of Tallahassee, Florida; minister of African Methodist Church; senator in Florida legislature; has been in Florida six years; came to Florida, from Canada, as a missionary; been connected with the African Methodist Church for thirtyeight years.................................... 165 member of convention of ministers and laymen of African Methodist Episcopal Church.-.. —-.................-................ 166 re-elected to State senate in 1870; member of constitutional convention in 1868; afterward elected to State senate from the eighth senatorial district, in which Tallahassee is situated..-.... —....... ——. —..... —..... — ----..... 169 the laws of Florida are good, but not properly executed......-.. —-.. ——. 165 many outrages have been committed on republicans by democrats-some shot, some killed, and some whipped and driven from their homes..... —....... 166 arms were procured for State militia by Governor Reed, but they were taken from the train and destroyed while being taken to Tallahassee; believes there is a secret political organization in the State; in small and sparsely settled counties there is opposition to colored men buying land. —................ 167 a white teacher of a colored school in Leon County, Mr. Butler, was driven from his school; greatest number of acts of violence have been committed in Jackson County; Dr. Kreminger shot and killed by a white man, who has been indicted.. ——..-... —-... —-.. ——.. -------—. - --- 168 threats are made to intimidate colored voters; have never received any Ku-Klux notice, but saw one sent to Mr. Gibbs, secretary of state, threatening him, the governor, and the witness................................. —. —..- 169 the murderer of Dr. Kreminger has not been arrested; there are Union League societies in the State.............. —-.. -- --- -—.-... -... —.. —.. — -. 172 the governor is at the head of State organization of Union League; the society is oath-bound; both white and colored are members.. —-........-.... —-. 173 no person punished for outrages committed upon republicans; letter of Dr. Gibbs concerning Mr. Dickinson...-............................ -.. 175 all the leading republicans in Jackson County have been killed or driven off; the Union League is a republican association, the existence of which is never denied by its members..-.-... —......... —.............- -. —--—. 176 Persons killed, not named................ —......115, 117, 119, 120,145,179,278 Persons whipped, not named....- —.. ——... —-.. —... —-... —-. —--- 126,149 Picnic, a man and boy killed in Jackson County, 1869, going to colored, (see Killed, Livingston Stewart and Wyatt Young.) Pousser, Richard, shot in Jackson County, 1869. —....-.................. ——. 147,273 POUSSER, RICHARD, (colored,) testimony of. ——.. —... —----..... 272-279 forty years old; born in South Carolina; came to Florida in 1851, and since then resided in Jackson County; elected constable in 1869. —-.... —---—.. 272 there are Ku-Klux in Jackson County................................ 272 witness was shot ih shoulder three or four months before Calvin Rogers was killed; November 15,1870, was stripped and pistol thrust in his face; November7, 1871, was again attacked; have not prosecuted persons for attacking him; colored men are afraid to try to get justice. ——..-...... —.. 273 condition of things in Jackson County worse since Dickinson was killed; Dickinson was killed by a white man.-................................. 274 particulars of dispute between Mr. Dickinson and Mr. Ely about sale of land for State taxes..-..-..-... —--- ---—.. —... ---—.. —-- 74, 275, 276, 277,278,279 Major Purman and Mr. Hamilton protected colored people. —----—.. — —.. 275 assault on Mr. Dickinson by Colonel Coker on election day.. —-. - —..- - 277 Abram Hall and two other colored men killed in October, 1871; fifteen or twenty murders committed since Dickinson was killed. —-—. —.. —. —-.- 278 Prison guard and two negroes killed -..........................-..... - ----—.. 94,188 Prolson, Robert, whipped.. —..............-........-..... 263 Purman, W. J., shot in Jackson County, 1869.........................7.... 8,94,144 PURMAN, W. J., testimony of. —... —-... ——.. —-... —. —... —-..-. —- 144-156 thirty years of age; born in Pennsylvania; lawyer by profession; resident of Jackson County, but unable to live there; with Dr. Finlayson when killed, and received a shot in the neck....................................... 144

Page  XV INDEX. XV Page. PURMAN, W. J., testimony of-Continued. a member of the State senate............................................. 145 came to Florida, in 1866, from Washington City, as agent of the Freedmen's Bureau, and continued such agent for two years; was a member of constitutional convention, and afterward elected to State legislature; was appointed secretary of state and resigned, and appointed county judge and resigned, and then was re-elected to State senate; is United States assessor of internal revenue for Florida.................-............... 149 a colored picnic fired into, September 28, 1869, and a man and child killed; a day or two afterward Miss McClellan was killed and her father wounded; Fleischman killed; Matt Nichols and wvife and son killed; Sullivan, white, and Cox, colored, wounded; a colored man killed; visited Marianna in August, 1870, with Colonel Hamilton, and held public meeting -.. —-—....... 145 in consequence of the excitement, obtained an escoIt of citizens, who took them to Bainbridge, Georgia; was in charge of six counties for Freedmen's Bureau- 146 wounding of Richard Pousser, colored; Finlayson was killed with a shot-gun; many threats against republicans; those killed were generally prominent republicans...................................................... 147 shortly after Finlayson was killed, three or four others were killed and a half a dozen wounded; Thomas M. West, sheriff of the county, resigned because he could not execute process; John Q. Dickinson was killed about 10 o'clock at night, near where Dr. Finlayson had been killed; after the sheriff resigned and the clerk was killed, the democrats met and dictated appointments to the governor, which he made; none of the murderers arrested and punished, though most of them are known; there have been at least seventy-five or eighty murders in Jackson County since the war, four-fifths of them of colored people; Calvin Rogers, colored, killed; most of the colored men killed were prominent among their race; a secret organization in Jackson County.; in spring of 1871, James W. Yerty killed in Calhoun County; in early part of i870, Judge Carraway killed in Calhoun County -..-.........-.......-. 148 some whippings in Hamilton County; Columbia County has a lawless reputatation; believes there is a secret organization extending throughout the State, the object of which is to extirpate the prominent republicans and Union men; to murder the leaders, and intimidate the others, in order to obtain control of the State government...................... 149 colored man and boy killed at a picnic; Miss McClellan killed and Mr. McClellan wounded.-... —--..... —-—.... -...... ----..... ----. 150 witness introduced in the State senate, two years ago, a resolution in favor of universal amnesty, and is still in favor of it; concerning hostages, or escort, to secure safe egress.from Jackson County...-......................... 151 population of Jackson County, from 8,000 to 10,000; voting population, 2,000; in fair elections about 1,400 colored and 500 or 600 white voters; formerly 60 to 70 white republicans in the county; do not think any whites voted republican ticket at last election; early in 1871, son of Mr. McMillan, member of the legislature, was shot in the face —-.. —.. —..-........... —-—. 152 secret political organization extends throughout the State, and will continue to prevent the arrest of one of its members, or get upon the jury and clear him. 153 witness and Dr. Finlayson had no personal enemies; a year before he was shot there was a rumor that " $1,600 in gold was on deposit for any man who would kill Purman".-... —... —-......-..- ---—. ——.... —... —- 154 the night after witness was shot a committee of black men came to his house, and he with difficulty persuaded them from sacking the town; Dickinson was objectionable because he was the last leading republican in the county. 155 the boast is made that no more white republicans dare go to Jackson County.. 156 Punishment not inflicted for committing outrages, (see Outrages.) Q. Quiet, ---, killed in Madison County.. —..... —................... ——... 126 R. Railroad bonds................................... 210, 249,250, 251,252, 302 REED, HENRY, (colored,) testimony of —-—.............. —-—.. —-—.. —--- 109-114 about thirty-seven years old born in Virginia; lives in Jacksonville; lived in Marianna, Jackson County, till October, 1869; left there because the KuKlux raided him...................................................... 109 never held an office —--—.. —...- -...-...-....-.. —- -....... 111 occupation, carpentering and farming; was born free..................... 112

Page  XVI XVI INDEX. Page REED, HENRY, (colored,) testimony of-Continued. about 1 o'clock at night a party of men came to his house and ordered him to come out; his son jumped out of the window and ran, and was fired at but not hit; witness escaped and hid under a neighbor's house till morning; then went to a gentleman's house and remained there three or four days, and then went to Quincy; four men came to his house and two stood in front and two in the rear; cannot tell whether they were disguised or not........... 109 have seen men at church with old black gowns and sun-bonnets on; many people molested by Ku-Klux; Matt. Nichols, Maria Nichols, and young Matt. Nichols killed; heard of no whippings; no one arrested or punished for acts of violence. —----—.... 110 no objection to witness except that he was a republican; Captain Dickinson and Dr. Finlayson killed; population of Jackson County 8,000 or 9,000; more colored than white.................................................... 111 killing of Oscar Nichols and Calvin Rogers........ 112 threats made to drive off all leading republicans........................ 113 leading men belong to democratic party.................................. 114 Rogers, Calvin, killed in Jackson County, 1869.... 80, 94,112, 148,150,192, 207 Rountree, Doc., and wife and four children whipped in Jackson County, 1868.... 279,280 ROUNTREE, DOC., (colored,) testimony of -.... -........... 279-281 going on thirty-seven years old; born in'Georgia; resident of Live Oak, Florida, for nearly three years......................................... 279 attacked by party of men in fall of 1868, between 9 and 10 o'clock at night, and himself, wife, and four children whipped............................ 279,280 shot at while living at Live Oak.......................................... 279,281 S. Scarboro, --, wife and daughter of, whipped inlMadison County, 1869...... 127 Schools, colored. -..-.. —-................................96, 97, 99,102,106, 168,253 Shot: Bryan, William, Jackson County, October, 1869..-.....0............ 80, 290 Cox, George, Jackson County, September, 1869........................... 145,290 McClellan, James F., Jackson County, October, 1869.- 78,145, 150,188,207,290,309 Pitman, Silas, Jackson County................................ 140 Pousser, Richard, Jackson County, 1869.-........-............... 147,273 Putnam, W. J., Jackson County, May, 1869.............................78,94,144 Sullivan, Columbus, Jackson County, September, 1869 —-.... —.-.-....78,145,290 Williams, Tom., Alachua County, October, 1871.. —................. —--- 268 Southern republicans, (see Northerners, feeling toward.) Simonton, Harry, killed in Alachua County, 1867...................-....... 268 Smith, --, whipped in Baker County, 1871................................ 67 Smith, Gordon, killed in Alachua County, 1868................................ 268 Smith, Richard, killed in Madison County...................... 126 STEARNS, M. L., testimony of....................................... 75-93 born in Lovell, Maine; thirty-two years of age; resident of Quincy, Gadsden County, Florida; speaker of house of assembly of the State legislature; came to Florida in May, 1866......................................... 75 lost an arm at Winchester, Virginia, in the military service of the United States.............................................. 87 was an officer of the Freedmen's Bureau for two years, located at Quincy; afterward surveyor general of the State under the United States Government 88 about 400 majority of black voters in Gadsden County.................... 75 elections quiet till election of November, 1870; account of disturbance at election in Quincy, by which therepublican majority was reduced from 400 to 16 76 those who were prevented from voting were republicans; no democrat prevented from voting; proceedings taken against Mr. Allison and others for disturbing the election; no killing or whipping in Gadsden County, but a great deal in adjoining county of Jackson; colored ferryman shot dead, and two colored men wounded........................................ 77 clerk of Jackson County, Dr. Finlayson, killed, and Major Purman wounded, May, 1869; Fleischman killed...................................... 78 in April, 1871, J. Q. Dickinson, clerk of Jackson County, killed........... 78,85 statement of Dickinson giving account of outrages in Jackson County.. 78,79,80, 81 affidavits of Samuel Fleischman-.................................... 82 some deny and others assert the existence of Ku-Klux in Jackson County; the outrages referred to by Dickinson were committed by disguised men; no one punished or attempted to be punished for such outrages; James Yerty killed in Calhoun County, March, 1871, by Luke Lot, said to be now in Jackson County............................................................ 83

Page  XVII INDEX. XVII Page. STEARNS, M. L., testimony of Continued.age. all through Middle Florida are men who say they will give Lot their best horses if he needs them in his operations; the expression is frequently made that all republicans or "radicals" should be killed; the secret organization is based on politics; knew Dickinson well; he was a man of very high and noble character; he was a native of Vermont; came to Florida after the war, and when killed was clerk of Jackson County...................... 84 before his death Dickinson had received many anonymous threatening letters - 85 has never seen any bands of disguised men; knows no one belonging to the secret political organization; men have acknowledged being members of it., 86 in March, ]871, in Quincy, was assaulted by a man of the name of Jones, who seized witness by the collar and drew a knife on him; was not injured ---- 87 for disturbance of election in Quincy, November, 1870, Allison was tried and convicted, but obtained a new trial; was witness in the case —... ——.-. 87 two colored men and witness were elected to the legislature from Gadsden County.-... —................... 88 ferryman shot; the government and courts have no power in Jackson County; more than half the jurors, as a general thing, do not seem disposed to check outrages.. —--—...... —-....................-....................... 89 the county of Jackson is entirely in the hands of a mob; Dickinson was justice of the peace and clerk of the court; do not know that any process has been sued out against Lot for killing Yerty. 90 among democrats there is a general expression of approval or palliation of outrages; a few express regret, and some say radicals commit them for political effect.................. 91 the sheriff of Jackson County, a democrat, told witness that four men from Jackson County went to Quincy and offered their services to get rid of any man, and were told there was no such work for them to do; has heard of frequent violations of law outside of Jackson County, but not to the same extent; Ku-Klux law of Congress has had a very salutary effect; the Freedmen's Bureau was very favorable in its operations, and equitable to both black and white..........-......................... 93 Stephens, -, killed in Alachua County, 1868.............................. 268 STRINGFELLOW, E. H., testimony of..-............................ 164,165 thirty-six years old; born in Chester County, South Carolina; resident of Columbia County, Florida.............................................. 164 have heard of whippings in Columbia County, supposed to be by Ku-Klux organization; Robert Forson whipped in 1870 164 heard of Ku-Klux two or three years ago; never understood what they were for; never was disturbed by them; never go out at night because of nightblindness; James Green, colored, was killed in 1868 or 1869........... 165 Sullivan, Caesar, killed in Alachua County, 1868.............................. 268 Sullivan, Columbus, shot in Jackson County, 1869.-....-............... 78, 145, 290 T. Taxes and finances of the State.................................... 208, 209,242,301 Tax-payers' convention............................... 208, 214, 215, 219, 244, 245 Tension, Oscar, killed in Madison County.................................... 126 TIDWELL, B. F., testimony of-.... —...................... 114-125 forty years of age; born in Georgia; resident of Madison County, Florida, and judge of the county..-.......... —. —........-......... 114 came to Florida in the latter part of 1860; enlisted in 1861, and served in Lee's army... —-.. —-... —---.......................... 116 held offices of justice of the peace and county judge; been acting county judge since February, 1871; resided in Leon County for a time; resided in Madison County for last three years........................................... 117 an effort is made to execute the laws, but it is rather loose; believes there are Ku-Klux in the county; as justice of the peace has taken testimony at inquests upon bodies of persons murdered; some twenty-five or thirty have been murdered in the last three years; most of them were colored -...... -- 114 murders were committed by disguised men at night, armed with guns and pistols; a colored man punished for killing a colored man; no white man punished for criminal act upon colored men; effect of acts of violence has been to prevent colored people from getting homes of their own; the persons murdered generally accused of some crime -...........................-.-. 115 voting place fixed at county-seat, because colored men can vote more securely there; they would not be permitted to vote as they pleased in the country places; the colored men murdered have been remarkable for their honesty, nI-B

Page  XVIII XVIII INDEX. Page. TIDWELL, B. F., testimony of-Continued. intelligence, and industry; in summer of 1871 Mr. Allison was killed by a party of armed men; he was accused of stealing, but there had been no prosecution against him; the negroes in the county have generally behaved well- - 116 a white man killed in fall of 1870; parties who killed Allison went to his place on horseback, killed him, and galloped off; could not tell whether they were disguised or not. —...-...-.....-..............-...- ------------—.. — 117 a white man killed a negro, in 1869, in the streets of Madison, and acquitted on ground of self-defense.............................................. 119 a mulatto, Richard Smith, killed in 1869; a colored man shot dead......... 120 the colored man had previously been whipped and run off from his house; colored man killed in 1870; witness committed two parties charged with the murder, and Judge Vann, then county judge, discharged them............ 121 arms for State militia were obtained by Governor Reed; the arms were taken from the cars and destroyed; many negroes have shot-guns and pistols; county commissioners fixed the place of voting at the county-seat -........ - 122 population of Madison County a little over 11,000, of which about two-thirds are colored; at last election perhaps 500 white voters and 1,200 or 1,300 colored voters; 25 or 30 white republicans in the county; colored people not inclined to tell all they know about outrages; the republicans generally believe there is a secret organization committing outrages -....... —. —... -------- 123 the arms for militia were taken from railroad train by unknown parties at or near station 5, Sandy Ford; witness has received no personal injury; has heard insulting remarks.-.... —-......... —-..... —-. —--—.. —-- 124 TUTSON, HANNAH, (colored,) testimony of................................. 59-64 about forty-two or forty-three years old; born in Gadsden County, Florida; resident of Clay County, near Waldo, on Number Eleven Pond; is the wife of Samuel Tutson.-....... -—.. 59 was at home last spring, when her husband was whipped by a party of disguised men, who came to the house and broke open the door; George McCrae and Cabell Winn caught hold of her and dragged her out of doors; McCrae took her infant child from her arms and threw it down; seized her by the throat and choked her: saw some of the party carrying off her husband, and the rest carried her away about a quarter of a mile from the house......... 59 made her put her arms around a pine tree, and then tied her hands; stripped her naked and whipped her with saddle-girths with the buckles on; after whipping her George McCrae would send away the rest of the party, and in their absence would endeavor to have sexual intercourse with her, injuring her very much; whipped her till she was raw from head to feet.. -........ 60 after she got away from them went several miles to the house of Mr. Montgomery, and also to the house of Mr. Ashley; returned to her house, which had been torn down, and found her husband and children about 12 o'clock the next day: the youngest, a babe, was hurt in one of its hips so that it was unable to walk for some time; was whipped because she and husband would not give up their land. —........... —-.. —-... -—. —.. —-.. —-------- - 61 had been urged before to give it up, but would not do it; had been living there iearly three years; went to Whitesville, with her husband, to see Mr. Kennedy, a magistrate, and endeavor to obtain redress...................... 62 went to Green Cove Spring, before the circuit court;' there never was any suit about the land she lived on; gave testimony before the United States court in Jacksonville...................................................... 63 she and hef husband were put in jail, because she testified that one man choked her, and her husband testified that the man whipped her; the man both choked and whipped her.............-.................... —- 64 Tutson, Hannah, whipped in Clay County, 1871................................ 55,59,60 TUTSON, SAMUEL%, (colored,) testimony of..........................-...... 54-59 between fifty-three and fifty-four years old; born in Virginia; resident of Clay County, Florida, at Number Eleven Pond, until visited and whipped by KuKlux, in May, 1871........-............... --------- 54 nine disguised men came between midnight and day, broke in the door of his house, dragged him away from the house, blindfolded him, tied him to a pine tree, whipped him, struck him with a pistol, choked him, and stamped on him.. 54 stripped him naked, tore up his shirt, put a piece over his eyes and a piece in his mouth; tore down his house, and whipped his wife; gave as a reason for whipping them that he and his wife would not give up the land they were living on to Mr. Winn, one of the party eng aged in whipping them —------- 55,57 had been living in Clay County three years; bought his land of Free Thompson, giving for it cotton of the value of $150; when he was whipped he was also falsely charged with leaving his fences down, and allowing stock to come in and then shooting it................................... 56

Page  XIX INDEX. XIX Page. TUTSON, SAMUEL, (colored,) testimony of-Continued. nearly a month after the whipping went to a magistrate of the name of Kennedy, and gave him the name of those who whipped him, but nothing was done to them -........... 57 went to Green Cove Spring, saw the United States lawyer there, and gave him the papers in his case; also testified before the United States court in Jacksonville concerning the outrage on himself and wife............ 58 never was at an election in Clay County; thinks there are more whites than blacks in that county........................... 59 Tutson, Samuel, whipped in Clay County, 1871 -...................... 54-57,59,217 U. Union League...................................173,176,186 V. Voters, (see Colored voters.) W. Washington, Henry, killed in Alachua County, 1871...........................268 Weaver, Samson, killed in Columbia County, 1868.. -263 Whipped: Bush, Isaac.............................................. 263 Cone, R. W., Baker County, June, 1871............................... 65,73,74 Forron, Robert, Columbia County, 1870............................. 164,307 Griffis,, Baker County, 1871...................................... 67 Persons not named...................................................... 126,149 Prolson, Robert........................................................ 263 Rountree, Doc., and wife and four children, Jackson County, 1868......... 279, 280 Scarboro,.wife and daughter of, Madison County, 1869. -....... 27 Smith,, Baker County, 1871-................................... 67 Tutson, Hannah, Clay County, May, 1871...............................55, 59, 60 Tutson, Samuel, Clay County, May, 1871. —-........-..... 5.. 4-57,59,217 WHITE, LARRY, (colored,) testimony of.........................-.... 308-310 about forty years old; born in Georgia; resident of Jackson County, Florida- 308 blacksmith by trade............-................ 309 have seen a great many signs of Ku-Klux, such as people murdered, shot at, or run off; 100 or 150 killed in Jackson County; two colored men stabbed on election day; no democrat hurt in any way; Captain Dickinson was last man killed in Jackson County......................-......... 309 not safe for colored men to vote republican ticket in Jackson County; people look to Government of the United States for protection; the State government not able to protect colored people; Miss McClellan killed, and Mr. McClellan wounded; believe it was done by a white man, who had had a fight with Mr. McClellan a night or two before.................... 310 WILDER, C. B., testimony of -.......... —........................ 241-258 came from Boston six years ago to assist the colored people; have acted with the republican party. -.. —-—.. ——... —-.................. 241 E'xty-nine years of age; formerly belonged to the abolition party, then to the free-soil party, and then to the republican party.............. 253 voted for Governor Reed, because he was nominee of republican party. —.... 254 ha; held no office in the State, but refused a great many; was superintendent of freedmen prior to organization of the Bureau, and located at Fortress Monroe; tried by court-martial for swindling the Government and acquitted...........-................... 255 all the State officials but the comptroller are in a ring to plunder the State... 241 has heard of persons stuffing ballot-boxes; taxation in the State has increased; the governor received $10,000 from one man for an office....... 242 Collector Little a defaulter to the State for $30,000 or $40,000.... 243 colored ministers use their churches for political purposes; Senator Osborn is a leader of the ring; Senator Gilbert said he had contributed more than $10,000 for campaign purposes before he secured his election; it is said the men who pay the most get the offices................................... 244 tax-payers' convention in Florida............................... 244,245 not so unpopular a man in the State as Governor Reed; the masses of the people have lost confidence in their rulers; northern people are welcomed and supported; the object of the home people is to obtain an honest government; the United States officials in the State are generally connected with the ring; Major Purman is one of the ring...................................... 247

Page  XX XX INDEX. Page. WILDER, C. B., testimony of-Continued. believes the ring has combined to get up Ku-Klux disturbances for political effect; believes the laws can be executed —.. —.................. ——..- 248 concerning railroad bonds.-..-...... —....... —..... 249,250,251,252 concerning the establishment of schools —... —..........-..-........ 253 the character of Judge Long is pretty bad; he is a disgrace to his office and to his party; it cost Senator Gilbert $10,000 to obtain his office; the comptroller is the only honest man connected with the State government; all the rest are policy men -- -----.. -—. —- 254 has confidence in Mr. Bisbee, United States district attorney................ 255 does not think the negroes well qualified to vote.. —-.. —--—............ ——. ——..........- 256 negroes not fit for self-government, nor are one-half the whites in the State- - 257 WILLIAMS, JOS. JOHN, testimony of.....-... --- ----------—.. —-.. 226 240 thirty-nine years of age; born in North Carolina; resident of Leon County, Florida, for nineteen years; a planter; was central chief for Leon County of Young Men's Democratic Club. —.. --—.. —--.......................... 226 was in the legislature eight or ten times before the war..................... 230 formerly owned three hundred slaves. —..-..... —.............. —.. —--- 232 at one time Judge Queen, and at another time Mr. Brokaw, was president of club at Tallahassee; there were three clubs in Leon County; the club is not in existence now; do not remember any of the other officers; meetings were held in Tallahassee; do not know that the organization existed in any other county; the club was sub-divided into hundreds and fifties; has understood that Extra Billy Smith is at the head of an organization precisely the same in Virginia; there was an oath of secrecy at initiation; the copy of constitution presented to witness (furnished by Frank Myers) looks like constitution of club at Tallahassee....-..-.-.. -.... —-. —... ---------- 226 explanation of provisions of constitution and object of organization. 227,228,235,236 was chief of organization for Leon County; did not belong to secret service committee, and did not know anything about it; three clubs in Leon County, at Tallahassee, Miccosukie, and Centreville; best men in the county, the democrats generally, belonged to the organization; a good institution and productive of good while it lasted.......... -.................. 229 in Leon county the democratic vote was 600 or 700, and opposite party 2,700 or 2, 800; 300 or 400 democrats belonged to the club; the organization was in the interest of good order, and could act promptly, while applications to the courts would take time; it was similar to the regulators before the war. 230 but few bad men in the county; Major Purman is a bad, bitter man, and charged with being a fanatic and exciting the negroes; all the white people regard Purman as a dangerous, bad man; knows but little personally of him..-.. 231 has heard that Mr. Hamilton was a bad man, an agitator; has heard that when Hamilton and Purman went to Jackson County, as agents of the Freedmen's Bureau, they broke up existing contracts with colored people, and required new ones to be made, charging a fee of a dollar or a dollar and a half for each contract signed; witness employs about 270 of his former slaves; most of the disturbances have occurred in Jackson County; heard that Hamilton arrested some young ladies for taking flowers in a cemetery-. 232 has heard republicans say that such men as Purman and Hamilton were ruining the party; not a dozen white republicans in Leon County; the colored people, if let alone, show no disposition to violence; Bishop Pearce (colored) and others indicted for bribery in connection with General Littlefield's matters; a large number of negroes collected with clubs and sticks to protect Pearce, when it was reported the democrats were going to put him out of the legislature; no longer.necessary to keep up the democratic club; has not heard of it for fifteen or sixteen months; everything is now quiet.................. 233 law-abiding people object to Purman and Hamilton; has no knowledge of democratic club, except in Leon County-............................ 234 object of the club to thoroughly organize democratic party; nothing in its object or obligations in violation of laws of United States or of Florida; difficulty between railroad conductor and colored man; conductor cut the colored man with a small knife, and was arrested and put in jail; 300 or 400 negroes assembled, and Gibbs, colored secretary of state, told them then was the time to commence their troubles with the whites; that they had been run over long enough.......................................................... 235 mayor of Tallahassee ordered out guard of colored men to protect the jail; operations of Hamilton and others produced feeling of insecurity on the part of the whites; disturbance at election in Quincy; the democratic club was to preserve good order................................................. 236

Page  XXI INDEX. XXI Page. WILLIAMS, JOS. JOHN, testimony of-Continueu. a jury on which were seven colored men indicted Pearce for bribery; there was no law for action of Purman and Hamilton in breaking up contracts.. 237 knows but one instance where colored men have been wronged by their employers, and that was the case of Major Weeks, from Boston............. 238 has no knowledge of Ku-Klux organization; killing of Carraway and Yerty, republicans, and McGriff, democrat; has heard that there were five or six murders in Jackson County since the surrender, four or five of which were republicans killed by republicans, and one was a democrat................ 239 was once called upon by mayor of Tallahassee to assist in defending the capitol against Senator Osborn and his wing of the republican party.......... 240 Williams, Tom, whipped in Alachua County, 1871............................. 268 WILSON, LEMUEL, testimony of............-...................195-202,225 fifty-five years old; born in N6rth Carolina; resident of Florida, and receiver of United States land-office at Tallahassee.................... 195 lived in Alachua County over thirty years...................- —........ 196 the Ku-Klux is a lawless organization for political purposes; all outside of the republican party are opposed to the Ku-Klux law of Congress; considerable opposition to political rights of colored people; social ostracism of white republicans; lives of colored people not sufficiently regarded.... —. 196 a great many negroes killed; no white man convicted for killing a negro; negroes can obtain rights of property before the courts, but- not justice in criminal prosecutions; negroes easily convicted of offenses against whites; Mr. Lucy killed at Newnansville by a man named Moody, who had been tried previously for killing a negro-.................................. 197 particulars of murder of son of Harry Harold, (colored,) for which four persons were tried and acquitted; murder of Dickinson in Jackson County..- 198 regarded Dickinson as a very fine man; Moody was a lawless man, and has not been arrested. for the murder of Lucy.-................ 199 understood that Lucy took but little part in politics, but that he voted republican ticket if at all................................................ 200 attack on General Birney by a party under lead of a man of the name of Denton......................................................... 201 two of the party in the attack on Birney have been indicted; Birney came from Illinois, and is solicitor of his circuit.............................. 202 particulars of disturbance at last election in Columbia county; heard it charged that Dickinson was killed for being too intimate with the wife of a colored man; does not believe the charge; it is common to charge persons who have been killed with having committed some offense; colored man taken from jail in Gainesville and hung, January, 1871............... 225 Witnesses, testimony ofBisbee, H., jr...................................................... 305-306 Bryant, Homer, (colored)................................ 302-305 Bryson, William........................................................ 258-260 Childs, J. W........................................ 291-293 Cone, Florida E........................................................ 72-75 Cone, R. W............................................... 65-72 Dennis, L. G.................................................... 267-272 Douglas, Samuel J............................................... 293-302 Forson, Robert........................................................ 307-308 Fortune, Emanuel, (colored)............... 94-101 Gibbs, J. C., (colored).......................................... 220-224 Hamilton, C. M....................................................... 281-291 Johnson, E. G.................................................. 260-267 Kreminger, Rebecca N............................................ 176-184 Long, T. T.......................................................... 202-220 Martin, Malachi........................................................ 184-195 Meacham, Robert, (colored)............................................. 101-109 Montgomery, David..................................................... 125-136 Myers, Frank............................................. 56-164 Nelson, Joseph, (colored)............................................... 136-144 Pearce, Charles H., (colored)............................................ 165-176 Pousser, Richard, (colored).............................................. 272-279 Purman, W. J.................................................... 144-156 Reed, Henry, (colored)...................................... 109-114 Rountree, Doe., (colored)........................................... 279-281 Stearns, M. L................................................... 75-93 Stringfellow, E. H....................... 164,165 Tidwell, B. F......................................................... 114-125

Page  XXII XXII INDEX. Page. Witnesses, testimony ofTutson, Hannah, (colored).............................................. 59-64 Tutson, Samuel, (colored).............................................. 54-59 White, Larry, (colored).................................. 308-310 Wilder, C. B....................................... 241-258 Williams, Jos. John............................ 226-240 Wilson, Lemuel............................................195-202,225 Y. Yerty; James W., killed in Calhoun County, 1871.................... 83,190 Young, Wyatt, killed in Jackson County, 1869......................78,145,150,289,303

Page  1 TESTIMONY. CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. MISCELLANEOUS. WASHINGTON, D. C., June 24, 1871. CHARLES REEMELIN sworn and examined. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. Where do you reside? Answer. At Cincinnati, Ohio, or near Cincinnati. Question. Have you any knowledge of the condition of the late insurrectionary States, so as to enable you to testify in regard to the execution of the laws, and the security of person and property there? Answer. I have, as a temporary traveler there, this spring, as far as I could get any information; I traveled there about a month. Question. Through what parts of the South? Answer. I traveled through Kentucky, Tennessee, Georgia, South Carolina, Alabama, Louisiana, and Mississippi. Question. So far as you have any information which bears upon the subject of the inquiry, state it to the committee, excluding from it, however, anything in relation to the State of Kentucky, as that is not committed to us in this inquiry. Answer. Perhaps I ought first to state my object in going South, and that will explain to some extent what were my opportunities of observation. I went South partly for my health; I was a correspondent of the Cincinnati Commercial, but the principal and main object I had in view all the time was to obtain information, which would enable me to comply with the request of a German journal to write a series of letters upon the condition of the South; and preparatory to that I was recommended to visit the South, and not to write the letters until I could see the census, because it was thought I could then better understand the returns of the census. As social science men, we believed that our opinions upon the subject should be governed by the facts, and in no other way. I was charged accordingly to state the facts, to avoid forming opinions, and not to be swayed by political opinions, because they looked upon them as temporary, and wished me particularly to notice the more inherent social tendencies of the people among whom I proposed to travel. For that purpose, I determined that I would seek information in all possible ways; for that purpose I visited various gentlemen in the South; and, besides, wherever I was traveling, I inquired of all of whom I could obtain information. With that view, I visited democratic editors, particularly editors of German papers; I visited Mr. Alexander I-I. Stephens, and at his house I saw Herschel V. Johnson and General Toombs. Question. Our purpose is to inquire into the efficiency of the execution of the laws in those States, and the security of person and property there; and we wish to get at the facts which you can give us bearing upon these inquiries. Answer. So far as I could observe, the laws were about as well executed as they were with us, considering the condition of things there and the nature of the country. They have a large country, covered over with plantations and smaller towns and cities; and a person traveling through, and chiefly visiting the cities, would not see a great deal of the country at large. Question. Was your travel confined principally to travel by railroad? Answer. Yes, sir, almost entirely, with the exception of short visits outside of the towns. Question. Am principally to the larger cities and towns? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Did you travel to any extent through the county at large otherwise than by railroad? Answer. No, sir, perhaps not more than fifty miles altogether. I went out from New Orleans to two plantations where there were coolies at work. B

Page  2 2 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. By Mr. BLAIR: Question. Do you know the condition of those States through which you traveled, n regard to the execution of the laws-whether those States are quiet, &c.? Answer. Where I went is peaceable, and I was about as little disturbed as I ever was in this country, or anywhere else. I walked out in Charleston at 11 o'clock at niglht, to the house of a friend, and came back without being disturbed. At Mobile I went at 8 o'clock at night to the house of Admiral Semmes, and remained there until 11 o'clock, when I returned to my room, and I had no trouble. At hotels I had no difficulty. At the same time, it is proper to saythat I found a great deal of irritation and dissatisfaction of a political nature through the entire South, which, in spite of a desire on my part to avoid that subject, would obtrude itself; it seemed to overwhelm their minds-to be ever present. They were dissatisfied with the way they had been treated by the Government; but there was nothing except an irritation; they would talk about it. By Mr. VAN TRUMP: Question. Was there any evidence of violence on their part? Answer. On the contrary, they all disclaimed that; their conversations would indicate that they regarded the thing as almost insufferable, and yet they would say they would submit. Question. How did you find affairs in South Carolina; were they not, as you have observed, almost insufferable? Answer. If the conversations that I heard were true, the condition of the country was almost insufferable. I was present at the meeting in Charleston where they repudiated the sterling bonds. I saw old gentlemen, persons apparently with plenty of property, men who I afterward found to be men of wealth, going on as if they were in a disturbed situation, and the time had come for them to save what little they had. I must admit that, on close examination, I found them a little more scared than the facts justified. Question. In regard to what? Answer. In regard to their taxes; it was not so bad as they thought; it did not take everything. Question. Did you look at the rates of taxation? Answer. I nquired into their valuations, into their rates of taxation, and compared them with the same in Cincinnati. Question. Did you not find great discrepancy in the estimates of values? Answer. They claimed that their assessments were really higher than the value of their property. In fact, I can state that several pieces of property were offered to me at from two to three thousand dollars less than they were appraised at on the tax list. And one piece of property was sold at auction, while I was in Charleston, for $10,000, that was put down on the tax list for $13,700, I think. Question. At what time were you in South Carolina? Answer. I left Cincinnati on the 15th of March, and I suppose I arrived there in South Carolina in the first part of April. Question. There were no violations of the peace, or anything of that kind, while you were there? Answier. Nothing at all of that kind. By Mr. BLAIR: Question. What did you gather, from your conversation generally with all the persons with whom you came in contact in the several States which you visited, as to the condition of those States in reference to obedience to the law and peace and quiet? Answer. I believe there is not the slightest intention down there to go back into any war or rebellion, or anything of the kind. Not one only, but a great many, of the regular soldiers of the confederate army said to me very clearly, and in a way that I cannot help being satisfied they spoke their sincere minds, that all thoughts of that kind had entirely disappeared from them; that they could not be kicked into it again; that the general Government might do what it pleased, but it could not kick them into a rebellion any more. They seemed to think that the condition was bad enough to drive any set of men into war, but they were not disposed to do it, and would not do it. It looked to me about this way, to use as a comparison a medical illustration: They looked to me like a people that are sound in their vital parts, but their blood is pretty badly irritated by some cause or other, and they were breaking out in spots here and there; if they could only get these political asperities and these political irritations from their mind, they would be better. In other words, as I said to several of them, if they would only take their spectacles that had blue glasses in them off their noses-spectacles that made everything look blue-I thought it would make things appear differently to them. By Mr. VAN TRUMP: Question. Is it not in fact very blue times down.there?

Page  3 MISCELLANEOUS. 3 Answer. Not so bad as they think. I think the South, both black and white, is settling down into a comfortable social condition. There are peculiar circumstances coopcrating there-the low prices of cotton, together with the law passed by Congress, which law was the great topic of conversation down South. Take one off or the other, and they would feel better. If they got a better price for their cotton, they would not think half so badly of congressional legislation, or if there had been no legislation they would not think so badly of the low price of cotton. But the two together make them pretty sore. By Mr. STEVENSON: Question. Did they attribute the low price of cotton to congressional legislation? Answer. No, sir; they did not do that. Question. But they mixed them upjin their minds? Answer. They did some; yes. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. What is your occupation, doctor? Answer. I am not a doctor. Question. I inferred from your medical comparison that you were a doctor by profession. Answer. No, sir; I merely used it as an illustration. I used to be a merchant, but now I am living on a small country place. Question. You went out there as correspondent for a newspaper? Answer. I went out there as a correspondent for the Cincinnati Commercial, and also intended to write something for the Social Science Journal. Question. Your travels there were to enable you to obtain information to write a treatise on social science? Answer. Yes, sir; the object in the first place was to get an idea of the general condition of the blacks and whites, and the effect of the two races upon each other. Question. And all that information which you then obtained we will get in your book, if it is ever published? Answer. Yes, sir; if it is ever translated. By Mr. STEVENSON: Question. You did not go into the districts alleged to be in open violence? Answer. So, sir. Question. You did not go into Spartanburg, or Laurens County, or any other county in South Carolina, where there are said to be violations of the law; or into Rutherford County, North Carolina? Answer. I did not go into North Carolina at all. Question. Did you go into Greene County, Alabama? Answer. Not that I know of; I went from Montgomery to New Orleans, by way of Mobile, and then came up through Mississippi. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. You spoke of calling upon democratic editors; did you confine your visits exclusively to the editors of one political party? Answer. There were no editors of the other party down there; I found some of the Germans a little inclined to republicanism. I was very anxious to get their ideas, for I am a native of Germany, and I would seek them out everywhere I could find them, because I believed that their minds were freer from the influences that were acting upon the minds of others. They had very seldom held slaves; they had lost no slaves, and, consequently, were in a different state of mind, as I found right away. I visited them, therefore, and compared what they stated to me with what I had heard from others. Question. Were the three most prominent men from whom you derived this information Alexander H. Stephens, Herschel V. Johnson, and Robert Toombs? Answer. Yes, sir; I also went to see Mr. Trenholm, in Charleston, and Mr. Semmes, in Mobile. WASHINGTON, D. C., June 27, 1871. N. B. FORREST sworn and examined. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. Where is your residence? Answer. My residence is in Memphis, Tennessee. Question. In what portion of the country has your business taken you within the last year or eighteen months? Answer. Mostly between Memphis, Tennessee, and Selma, Alabama; that is, in a southeast direction from Memphis; I am on that line most of the time.

Page  4 4 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Question. In what business have you been engaged? Anstcer. I am president of two railroads that we are trying to build in that country; they are now consolidated, but have been two up to within the last few days. Question. Has your business brought you in contact, to a large extent, with the people of the country through which your road passes? Answer. Yes, sir, it has. Question. We desire to ascertain the manner in which the laws are executed in the Southern States, and the security there enjoyed for person and property. So far as your observation enables you to speak, will you state what are the facts in that respect? Answer. So far as I know, I have seen nothing that prevented the law from being executed; I have not seen anything at all to prevent the laws from being executed. Question. Do you know anything of any combinations of men for the purpose either of violating the law, or preventing the execution of the law? Answer. I do not. Question. I have observed in one of the Western papers an account of an interview purporting to have been had with you in 1868, in which you are reported to have spoken of the organization of what was called the Ku-Klux in Tennessee, their operations, their constitution, the numbers of the organization; and also a correction in one or two par.ticulars afterward made by you of the facts stated in that interview. You recollect the article to which I refer? Answer. Yes. sir. Question. Upon what information did you make the statement in regard to the organization and constitution of the Ku-Klux in Tennessee? Answer. Well, sir, I had but very little conversation with that party. By Mr. VAN TRUMP: Question. Do you mean with the reporter? Answer. With the reporter. He misrepresented me almost entirely. When he came to see me he was introduced to me by another gentleman. I was in my office, suffering with a sick headache, to which I am subject at times, so that I was disqualified from doing anything. I was just going to my residence, and I said to him that I had nothing to say. That was the most of the conversation that occurred betwixt us. I remember talking to him may be three or four minutes. He asked me if there was an organization in Tennessee, and I told him that it was reported that there was. That, I think, was about the conversation that we had in regard to the organization. So far as the numbers were concerned I made no statement. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. I will call your attention specifically to the report of the interview, as reported in the Cincinnati Commercial of Tuesday, September 1, 1868; also to a letter in the paper, dated Memphis, September 3, and published in the paper of September 6, the letter purporting to have been written by yourself. In the interview, as reported in the paper of the 1st of September, these sentences occur: "' In the event of Governor Brownlow's calling out the militia, do you think there will be any resistance offered to their acts?' I asked. "'That will depend upon circumstances. If the militia are simply called out, and do not interfere with or molest any one, I do not think there will be any fight. If, on the contrary, they do what I believe they will do, commit outrages, or even one outrage, upon the people, they and Mr. Brownlow's government will be swept out of existence; not a radical will be left alive. If the militia are called out, we cannot but look upon it as a declaration of war, because Mr. Brownlow has already issued his proclamation directing them to shoot down the Ku-Klux wherever they find them, and he calls Southern men Ku-Klux.' "'Why, General, we people up North have regarded the Ku-Klux Klan as an organization which existed only in the frightened imaginations of a few politicians.' "' Well, sir, there is such an organization, not only in Tennessee, but all over the South, and its numbers have not been exaggerated.' "'What are its numbers, General?' "' In Tennessee there are over 40,000; in all the Southern States they number about 550,000 men."' Is there any other portion of that statement incorrect than the portion to which you called attention in your letter? Answoer. Well, sir, the whole statement is wrong; he did not give anything as it took place. So far as numbers were concerned, I knew nothing about the numbers of the organization. It was reported that there was such an organization in Tennessee, in fact throughout the United States; but I knew nothing about its operations. Question. I will read your correction on that point in the letter of the 3d of September. In that letter yon say: " I said it was reported, and I believed the report, that there are 40,000 Ku-Klux in Tennessee; and I believe the organization stronger in other States. I meant to imply, when I said that the Ku-Klux recognized the Federal Government, that they would

Page  5 MISCELLANEOUS. 5 obey all State laws. They recognize all laws, and will obey them, so I have been informed, in protecting peaceable citizens from oppression from. any quarter." Is that the correction which you make of the statement that I read to you in regard to your saying that there were 40,000 Ku-Klux in Tennessee? Answer. I made that statement. I believed so then, for it was currently reported that there were that number of men. Question. That correction goes to the number; that you believed it was so reported, and that you believed there were 40,00 Ku-Klux in Tennessee. Upon what authority did you make these statements that the organization existed? Answer. I made it upon no authority, nothing of my personal knowledge at that time. Question. Did you in this letter of the 3d of September correct all that you believed required correction in the account of the interview as published in the paper of the 1st of September? Answer. I do not think I did. As I said before, I was very sick at the time and was unable to talk to this man. I did not talk to him five minutes. He said to me, "I will go and write down what you have said and let you see it." He went off, and I did not see anything more of him. Question. I find that in your letter of correction you used these words: "The portions of your letter to which I object are corrected in the following paragraphs." Did you not correct all the portions of the letter to which you objected. Was not that the purpose of the letter? Answer. That was the purpose of the letter, yes. That was the intention of it. Question. Where did you obtain your information as to the number of Ku-Klux in Tennessee? You said it was reported and that you believed the report. Answer. I got it from common reports circulated through the country. Question. Can you give us any definite information of any particular person from whom you got that report? Answer. No, sir; I never heard any one say that they knew any particular number of that society; just a report circulated through the country. Question. Was it from the same source that you got the report that there were 550,000 in all the Southern States? Answer. I never made that statement, because I knew nothing about how many there were. Question. I find in the report of that interview another statement, as follows: "' But is the organization connected throughout the States? "'Yes, it is. In each voting precinct there is a captain who, in addition to his other duties, is required to make out a list of names of men in his precinct, giving all the radicals and all the democrats who are positively known, and showing also the doubtful on both sides and of both colors. This list of names is forwarded to the grand commander of the State, who is thus enabled to know who are our friends and who are not. " I do not remember that there is'in your letter any correction of that statement. Answer. Well, sir, I made no such statement at all to this man as that. Question. Did you correct that statement in your letter? Answer. I do not know whether it was corrected in the letter or not. If it was not, I wish to do it here. I made no such statement. I did not have as much conversation with him as you and I now have had. There were gentlemen there who heard what was said. I was suffering very much with a headache at the time, and told him I could not talk to him, that I did not wish to talk to him. He asked me a few questions. Question. Is this statement as reported in the account of that interview a correct statement: "' Can you or are you at liberty to give me the name of the commanding officer of this State?' "'No; it would be impolitic.'" Answer. No, sir; I never made that statement. I have received a letter from that reporter, acknowledging that he did misrepresent me. I do not have it here. Afterward, when he wrote another letter stating that he went with me to Fort Pillow, and that I had shown him where the negroes were killed, and how the battle was fought, he went on to make statements of all the facts, which statements were entirely false. I had never traveled with the man ten feet in my life. Question. Is the whole account of this interview a misrepresentation? Answer. Not all of it. I told him that I believed there was an organization in Tennessee, and that it had been reported 40,000 strong. I told him that; I said that. Question. I find these sentences near the close of your letter of correction: " I cannot consent to remain silent in this matter, for, if I did so, under an incorrect impression of my personal views, I might be looked upon as one desiring a conflict, when, in truth, I am so adverse to anything of the kind that I will make any honorable sacrifice to avoid it.

Page  6 6 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. " Hoping that I may have this explanation placed before your readers, I remain, very respectfully," &c. I will put the question again: Did you, in this letter, correct all that you deemed a misrepresentation in the account of the interview with you? Answer. I do not think I did, and my friends thought so afterward. But I am not accustomed to writing letters, or to be interrogated by reporters. That was something entirely new to me; I did not expect it. Question. Is this statement in that account correct: "' Do you think, General, that the Ku-Klux have been of any benefit to the State?' "'No doubt of it. Since its organization, the leagues have quit killing and murdering our people. There were some foolish young men who put masks on their faces and rode over the country, frightening negroes; but orders have been issued to stop that, and it has ceased. You may say, further, that three members of the Ku-Klux have been court-martialed and shot for violations of the orders not to disturb or molest people.'' Is that statement correct? Answer. No, sir; not the last part of it. Question. That is, as to the shooting of three members of the Ku-Klux? Answer. No, sir; that is not correct. Question. Is the other portion of it correct? Answer. A portion of it is. Question. That orders had been issued to stop using masks? Answer. I did not say that orders had been issued, but that I understood orders had been issued. I could not speak of anything personally. Question. Well, with your assent, I will put the whole of this account of the interview, and your letter of correction, into the testimony. [See page 32.] I will now ask if, at that time, you had any actual knowledge of the existence of any such order as the Ku-Klux? Answer. I had, from information from others. Question. Will you state who they were who gave you that information? Anlswer. One or two of the parties are dead now. Question. Who were they? Answer. One of them was a gentleman by the name of Saunders. Question. Did he reside in Tennessee? Answer. No, sir; he resided in Mississippi then. He afterward died by poison at Asheville, North Carolina. Question. Did any other person give you that information? Answer. Yes, sir; I heard others say so, but I do not recollect the names of them now. I say to you, frankly, that I think the organization did exist in 1866 and 1867. Question. In what portions of the country? Answier. I do not think it existed anywhere except in Middle Tennessee. There may have been some in a small portion of West Tennessee; but if there was any, it was very scattering. Question. Under what name is it your belief it existed at that time? Answer. Some called them Pale Faces; some called them Ku-Klux. I believe they were under two names. Question. Had they an officer known as a commander? Answer. I presume they did. Question. Was their organization military in its character? Answer. No, sir; I think not. Question. Were they subject to command and drill in any military form? Answer. They were like the Loyal Leagues, and met occasionally and dispersed again. The Loyal Leagues existed about that time, and I think this was a sort of offset gotten up against the Loyal Leagues. It was in Tennessee at the time; I do not think it was general. Question. Had it a political purpose then? Answer. I think it had not then; it had no political purpose. Question. You say it was organized like the Loyal Leagues, or in opposition to them? Answeer. I think it was in opposition. Question. Was the purpose of the Loyal Leagues political?,Answver. I do not presume it was; I do not know what it was. Question. What did you understand to be the purpose of the two organizations? Answer. I can tell you what I think the purpose of the organization that you first spoke of was; I think it was for self-protection. Question. You mean now what is called Ku-Klux? Answer. Yes, sir; I think that organization arose about the time the militia were zalled out, and Governor Brownlow issued his proclamation stating that the troops would not be injured for what they should do to rebels; such a proclamation was issued. There was a great deal of insecurity felt by the southern people. There were a great many northern men coming down there, forming leagues all over the country. The negroes were holding night meetings; were going about; were becoming very insolent;

Page  7 MISCELLANEOUS. 7 and the southern people all over the State were very much alarmed. I think many of the organizations did not have any name; parties organized themselves so as to be ready in case they were attacked. Ladies were ravished by some of these negroes, who were tried and put in the penitentiary, but were turned out in a few days afterward. There was a great deal of insecurity in the country, and I think this organization was got up to protect the weak, with no political intention at all. Question. Do I understand you to say that the Loyal League organization in Tennessee countenanced or promoted crimes of the kind which you have mentioned? Answer. I do not know that they promoted them; but those crimes were not punished; there was very little law then. Question. Was this before the organization of the State government, or did it continue afterward? Answer. Well, it continued so for a year afterward. Question. How long, according to your information, did this Ku-Klux organization exist? Answer. I think it was disorganized in the early part of 1868. Question. Did it continue until after the presidential election? Answer. No, sir; I think it was in the latter part of 1867, or the early part of 1868; I do not know the exact date. Question. Where can we get the information as to the manner of its dissolution and the time of it? Answer. I do not know where you can get it. I never got any positive information except that it was generally understood that the organization was broken up. Question. Who were understood to belong to it? Ansier. Men of the Southern States, citizens. Question. Did they speak to you without hesitation of the organization, as if it required no concealment? Answer. No, sir; they did not. Question. Did they deny or admit its existence? Answer. They did not do either; they did not deny it or admit it. It was understood though, among the southern people, that this organ!zation had disbanded about the time of the nomination of candidates for President of the United States. Question. When they proceeded to carry out the objects of the organization, did they do it in numbers, by riding in bands? Answer. I do not know; I never saw the organization together in my life; never saw them out in any numbers, or anything of the kind. Question. Did you get the same information in regard to that as you did in regard to its origin and its disbanding? Answer. Yes, sir; I understood that they patrolled communities, rode over neighborhoods. Question. Did they go in disguise? Answer. I suppose some of them did. Question. Was that the geueral understanding? Answer. That was the rumor. Question. Did they proceed to the extent of whipping or killing men? Answer. I heard of men being killed, but I did not know who did it. Question. Was it done by these persons in disguise? Answer. Well, yes, sir; there were men killed in Tennessee and in Mississippi by bands in disguise. There were men found down there disguised, white men and negroes both. Question. Your residence is in Memphis? Aunswer. Yes, sir. Question. Close to the Mississippi line. Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Did not the same organization extend into Mississippi? Ansier. I do not know whether it did or did not. Question. Have you any knowledge of any secret organization in Mississippi? Answer. I never heard of but one case where there was anything of that sort over there, that came under my direct knowledge. Question. Where was that? Answer. At Holly Springs. Question. I-Iow long since? Answer. In 1867. Question. In that portion of the State of Mississippi through which your road runs, have yon any knowledge of any outrages by persons in disguise having been committed since 1867? Ansuwer. Only one instance, and that was not an outrage. Question. Where was that? Answer. At Greensboro, Alabama. Well, I heard of another one. Qeestion. What occurred at Greensboro? Answer. Well, a man was taken out of jail for stealing horses.

Page  8 8 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES Question. Did they release him? Answer. Yes, sir. I was not there at the time; I was in Memphis at the time; they passed my camp on the road. Question. Were they in disguise? Answer. It was reported that they were. Question. How late was that? Answer. I suppose it was eighteen months ago; may be not so long as that. Question. In what county is Greensboro? Ansiwer. It is in Hale County. Question. What was the other instance to which you were about to refer a moment ago? Ansiver. The other was at Eutaw, on the line of my road. Question. In Greene County, Alabama? Answ1er. Yes, sir. Question. Through what counties does your road run? Answer. It runs through Perry, Hale, Greene, Dallas, and Pickens Counties, Alabama; through Lowndes, Monroe, Pontotoc, Chickasaw, Union, Benton, Marshall, and De Soto Counties, in Mississippi; and Shelby County, in Tennessee. It runs across the corners of those counties, not directly through the most of them. Question. What was the occurrence in Eutaw to which you referred? Answer. That was the case of Miller, I think; I heard that; I do not know it to be so. It was currently reported there that this man was killed one night by a band of disguised men. By Mr. BECK: Question. Was it Boyd? Answer. Yes, sir; Boyd was the name. Miller was an uncle of Boyd. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. Have you any knowledge of any visit by disguised men in the county of Pontotoc, Mississippi? Answer. I have not. Question. Have you heard of none there recently? Answer. I heard something about some men being disguised coming there, and one of them was shot; but I do not know anything about it. Question. Do you know a man in Pontotoc by the name of Pollard? Answer. No, sir; I do not know him. Question. Did you meet a man of that name there in 1867 or 1868? Answer. I lIave no recollection of meeting a man there of that name. I was in the county in 1869, canvassing the county, and I made a speech in every civil district in the county, for subscriptions to the road I am interested in. In 1868 I made a speech at Pontotoc in regard to the same road, and I met a great many men there I did not know. Question. Did this organization of Ku-Klux exist there at that time? Answer. I do not think it did; I never heard of it. Question. Had you any communication with Pollard about establishing it there? Answer. No, sir. Question. You did not know Pollard? Answer. I never saw him or heard of him, that I recollect. I do not know many men there in that county, except those who were in the army. There was one regiment from that county that served under me, and I knew a few of the leading men in Pontotoc. Question. Then I understand you to say that this whole statement, giving the idea that you knew of your own knowledge of the organization of the Ku-Klux, or that you knew of their numbers or their discipline, is incorrect? Answer. I never said to that man that I knew anything about it. Question. Had you ever a constitution of the order? Answer. I saw one; yes, sir. Question. Where was that? Answer. That was in Memphis. Question. Who had it? Answer. Well, it was sent to me in a letter. Question. Have you that constitution yet? Answer. No, sir. Question. What has become of it? Answer. Well, I burned up the one I had. Question. Who sent it to you? Answer. That I cannot tell. Question. Did it come anonymously? Answer. Yes, sir; it came to me anonymously.

Page  9 MISCELLANEOUS 9 Question. What was the purport of it? Answer. The purport of that constitution, as far as I recollect it now, was that the organization was formed for self-protection. The first obligation they took, if I recol lect it aright, was to abide by and obey the laws of the country; to protect the weak; to protect the women and children; obligating themselves to stand by each other in case of insurrection or anything of that sort. I think that was about the substance of the obligation. Question. Was it a secret organization? Answer. I presume it was. Question. Did it so purport to be in the constitution? Answer. Yes, sir; I think so. Question. The constitution required secrecy? Answer. I think it required secrecy. Question. Did it require the members of the society to obey the orders of all superior officers? Answer. Yes, sir; I think so. Question. Under what penalty? Answer. I do not think there was any penalty attached; I do not recollect now. Question. Did it refer to a ritual, or a mode of initiation? Answer. I think it did. Question. What was the name of the organization given in that constitution? Answer. Ku-Klux. Question. It was called Ku-Klux? Answer. No, sir; it was not called Ku-Klux. I do not think there was any name given to it. Question. No name given to it? Answer. No, sir; I do not think there was. As well as I recollect, there were three stars.in place of a name. I do not think there was any name given to it. Question. That is, when it came to the name there was a blank, and stars in the blank? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Signifying that the name was to be kept secret? Answer. You are to place your own construction on that. Question. That is the way it stood —Whe name of the organization left blank, and stars in its place-that is the way it stood in the constitution? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Have you any idea how that came to be sent to you? Answer. No, sir; I do not know how it came to be sent to me. Question. From what point was it sent? Answer. It was mailed from some place in Tennessee; I do not recollect now what point it was mailed from. I was getting at that time from fifty to one hundred letters a day, and had a private secretary writing all the time. I was receiving letters from all the Southern States, men complaining, being dissatisfied. persons whose friends had been killed, or their families insulted, and they were writing to me to know what they ought to do. Question. Was there any request of any character to you in connection with this constitution? Answer. No, sir. Question. There was no written communication along with it? Answer. No, sir. Question. Nothing to signify from whom it came? Answer. No, sir. Question. Was there anything to show where it was printed? Answer. No, sir. Question. No printer's name on it? Answer. No, sir. Question. No place at which it was printed? Answer. No: there was nothing indicating where it was printed; there was nothing to indicate that; I am certain there was not. Question. It was the constitution of a secret society, organized where? Answer. Well, it did not say. Question. Do you believe that constitution was the basis of the organization which you say existed in Tennessee? Answer. I think it was. Question. Did it require an organization in each county? Answer. Well, I cannot say whether it did not; I do not know whether they had an organization in each county or not. Question. Did the constitution require it? Answer. I think not. Question. Was there a mode of getting up subordinate and superior organizations? Answer. Well, I presume there was; I do not recollect now. Well, if I had thought

Page  10 10 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. this thing would have come up in that shape, I would have tried to have gotten hold of one of these prescripts, as they were called, to give to you. Question. Is it your impression that there were subordinate camps, or lodges, or divisions, whatever they were called, in each county? Answer. Well, yes, sir; I reckon there was. Question. Under the control of a superior officer in the county? Answer. Yes, sir; I presume that was the intention of it. Question. Were they required to report to a superior organization in the State? Answer. I do not think they were; I do not recollect that they were. Question. In the account of this interview you are represented as saying, " This list of names is forwarded to the grand commander of the State, who is thus enabled to know who are our friends and who are not." Answer. I do not think there is anything in this prescript indicating anything of that sort. Question. There may not be a " grand commander;" may there not be a chief officer of this organization in the State? Answer. I do not know whether there was or not. Question. You read the prescript? Answer. Yes, sir; there was no name given in the prescript. Question. I am not speaking of the name of the man; but was there not such an officer, to be appointed or selected in the State? Answer. It looka as if there would be in an organization of that sort. Question. Is not that your impression, that there was a State organization, organizations in the counties, and interior organizations in the counties? Answer. No, sir; I did not consider it a State organization. Question. Then each county was an organization in itself? Answer. There might have been an organization in the State, but, from all the information I could get, it was laid off in counties of the State. I think this organization was more in the neighborhood of places where there was danger of persons being molested, or in large negro counties, where they were fearful that the negroes would rise up. I think that is where the organization existed mostly. I do not think it existed at all in the poorer neighborhoods, where there was no danger of insurrection. There were a great many fires at that time, burning of gin-houses, mills, &c. Question. Had there been any disturbance of that kind in your neighborhood? Answer. No, sir; there was no difficulty there in my neighborhood, with one exception. Question. Did you act upon that prescript? Answer. No, sir. Question. Did you take any steps for organizing under it? Answer. I do not think I am compelled to answer any question that would implicate me in anything. I believe the law does not require that I should do anything of the sort. Question. Do you place your declination to answer upon that ground? Answer. I do not. Question. I only wish to know your reasons for declining to answer. I will communicate to you the fact that there is an act of Congress which provides that such a reason shall not excuse a witness from answering. If you desire, I will read it to you. It is as follows: " That the provisions of the second section of the act entitled' An act more effectually to enforce the attendance of witnesses on the summons of either House of Congress, and to compel them to discover testimony,' approved January 24, 1So7, be amended, altered, and repealed, so as to read as follows: That the testimony of a witness examined and testifying before either House of Congress, or any colmmittee of either House of Congress, shall not be used as evidence in any criminal proceeding against such witness in any court of justice: Provided, however, That no official paper or record produced by such witness on such examination shall be held or taken to be included within the privilege of said evidence so to protect such witness from any criminal proceeding as aforesaid; and no witness shall hereafter be allowed to refuse to testify to any hfat, or to produce any paper touching which he shall be examined by either House of Congress or any committee of either House, for the reason that his testimony touching such fact, or the production of suci paper, may tend to disgrace him or otherwise render him infamous: Provided, That nothing in this act shall be construed to exempt any witness from prosecution and punishment for purjury committed by him in testifying as aforesaid." I will repeat the question: Did you take any steps for organizing an association or society under that prescription? Answer. I (lid not. Question. Did you communicate it to any other person for the purpose of having an organization made? Answer. The organization was made, I presume, before I ever saw the prescript or knew anything about it.

Page  11 MISCELLANEOUS. 11 Question. Did you communicate this prescript, or any copy of it, to any person, for the purpose of enabling them to organize under it? Answer. I never sent out any of the prescripts, or anything of that kind, to any one. Question. Did you give this particular prescript, or any copy of it, to anybody, so that they might use it for organizing under it? Answer. I have just stated that I never gave out any or sent out any for the purpose of organizing. Question. I am now inquiring about this particular prescript, not about distributing others. Answer. No, sir, I never did; I burned that one up. Question. Did you show it to any one, read it to any one, or allow any one to read it? Answer. I am not able to answer that question; I do not recollect whether I ever did or not; I might have shown it and I might not have shown it; I do not recollect. Question. Were there any organizations of this order, whatever it may be, in your neighborhood'after that time? Answer. I presume there were before. Question. Were there any afterward? Answer. I think there were. Question. Do you know any of the members of them? Answer. No, sir, not now, I do not recollect the members of them. Question. Did you know at that time who were the members? Answer. I do not remember. Question. Can you now tell us who were the members, or any single member, of that organization? Answer. [After a pause. ] Well, that is a question I do not want to answer now. Question. You decline to answer? Answer. I would prefer to have a little time, if you will permit me. By Mr. STEVENSON: Question. What is your reason for wanting time? Answer. I want to study up and find out who they were, if I have got to answer the question; that is the reason. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. What length of time will you probably require? Answer. Well, sir, I do not know that I could say now, as I am in the midst of this examination. I would like you to pass that over for the present and let me have some time to think over it. Question. Do you remember whether there were any signs or pass-words referred to in the prescript? Answer. I think there were. Question. Were they given in it, or did the prescript refer to a ritual or mode of initiation for the signs? Answer. I think the prescript referred to a ritual. Question. Do you know what any of those signs and pass-words were? Answer. I did know, but I have not thought of it in two years, and I do not know that I could give one of them. Question. If you can give one now, do so. Answer. I do not believe I could. You will have to let that pass over a little while, if iis necessary to answer it, for it is a matter that has gone out of my knowledge for eighteen months or two years; I have not thought of it in that time. Question. Your impression is that the pass-words and signs were not given in the prescript, but were referred to in the ritual or mode of initiation? Answer. I am not able to answer that question; I do not know whether they were or not. Question. Have you ever seen those signs used among any of the men in Alabama or Mississippi. Answer. I never have; I have never seen the organization together. Question. Or in Tennessee? Answer. I have never seen the organization together in numbers. Question. Well, without seeing it together, have you ever seen those signs used for the purpose of recognition between individuals? Answer. Yes, sir, I think I have. Question. You recognized the signs? Answer. Well, yes, I understood it. Question. Understanding it, then, do you still wish time to consider whether you could give them or not? Answer. I cannot give you one of them correctly now to save my life, I have no idea I could. It was a matter I knew very little about; I had very little to do with it. All my efforts were addressed to stop it, disband it, and prevent it.

Page  12 12 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Question. How did you get to know the sign? Ansuwer. It was given to me by one who, I suppose, was one of the members. Question. Did he understand you to be one? Answer. No, sir, not at that time. Question. How came he to give it to you? Answer. I asked him to give it to me in order that I might try and check the thing; I was trying to keep it down as much as possible. Question. Who was he? Answer. This man Saunders, who, I told you, died at Asheville, North Carolina; he was poisoned by his wife there. Question. When was it? Answer. In 1867; the early part of 1867. Question. Were you trying to suppress the organization, or the outrages you speak of? Answer. I was trying to suppress the outrages. Question. Outrages committed by colored men? Answer. By all people; my object was to keep peace Question. Did you want to suppress that organization? Answer. Yes, sir; I did suppress it. Question. How? Answer. Had it broken up and disbanded. Question. What influence did you exert in disbanding it? Answer. I talked with different people that I believed were connected with it, and urged its disbandment, that it should be broken up. Question. In the light of that statement, is it not probable that this part of the account of the interview with you is correct? "Since its organization the leagues have quit killing and murdering our people. There were sonme foolish young men who put masks on their faces, and rode over the country, frightening negroes; but orders have been issued to stop that, and it has ceased." Answer. I never uttered such words; I did not talk to that man twenty words? Question. You say you were trying to stop the proceedings, and that they did stop? Answer. Yes, sir; and I think they completely stopped. I do not hear of anything of that kind now-of difficulties there-any more than I hear of thenm here. I think that since 1868 that organization has been disbanded. I do not think there has been any organization together; if there has been, it has been by irresponsible parties, without any organization at all. Question. What was the object of their pass-word? Answer. I presume like any other pass-word. Question. What was their pass-word? Answer. I cannot tell you now. Question. Did you know? Answer. At one time I believe I did know one of their pass-words, but I have forgotten what it was. Question. Was it Shiloh? Answer. No, sir, I never heard that given as a pass-word. Question. When you got the sign and the pass-word, did you not also get the name of the organization, so as to be able to fill the blank in the prescript? Answer. Well, I believe it was called the Ku-Krux organization; I do not know whether the young man gave it to me at that time or not. It was in the road, when we were talking about it. Question. Then you at least had the confidence of the organization? Answer. I had the confidence of the southern people, I think. Question. Was there any political object whatever in this organizatior Answer. There never was, that I ever heard of. Question. You say you have seen this sign recognized; where? Answer. The sign I saw recognized, I believe-well, I do not recollect now where it was; whether in the house or on the road. Question. Was it in Tennessee? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Did you ever see it recognized any place else? Answer. No, sir, I never did. Question. Against whom did this organization operate? Answer. I do not think it operated against any person particularly; I think it was, as I said before, an organization for the protection of southern people against mobs, and rapes, and things of that sort. I never knew any portion of the organization to commit any deed. Question. Did you never understand that they went out and took persons from their homes and whipped them? Answer. That was the newspaper rumor. Question. Of all those you have heard of being whipped were any democrats? Answer. Well, I do not know that they were; I do not recollect whether they were

Page  13 MISCELLANEOUS. 13 democrats or what they were. I heard of some men who had been stealing horses being whipped, and I heard of men being whipped who had been whipping their wives; and I heard of negroes being whipped who had been committing outrages, or something of that sort-caught on the road with things in their possession. They were thrashed. Question. Did you ever hear of any other persons except those charged with offenses of this kind being visited by this party? Answer. I heard of Boyd and others being killed; but that came more directly under my eye, from the fact that I was building my road and passing through the country there. Question. Was it not your information that the men who killed Boyd came there in the same kind of uniform and disguise as was used by these men in Tennessee? Answer. I never heard; I understood they were disguised, but I never understood what was the disguise. Question. WThat was the manner in which these men were disguised in Tennessee? Answer. In almost every shape. Question. Did they have masks over their faces? Answer. I think some had masks. Question. Did they have high caps on their heads? Answer. Some of them had caps, some had none at all. Question. Did they have loose gowns? Answer. I do not think there was any uniform that they adopted. I heard of some having on black gowns, some red gowns, and some with white sheets wrapped around them. I do not think there was any uniform. By Mr. BECK: Question. How long since you have read over this article in the Cincinnati Commercial of September 1, 1868, purporting to give the interview with you? Answer. I have never read it since shortly after it was published. It was a matter like many others. There were a great many things said in regard to myself that I looked upon as gotten up merely to affect the elections in the North. I felt that was the object of it. I passed it by, and have not thought of it since. Question. They have been in the habit of writing a great many things about you in the newspapers. Answer. Particularly about that time the papers were full of them, not only all the papers, but people all over the Northern States were making speeches denouncing me; at least they were so reported in the papers. Question. You did not profess to answer what you saw generally in the newspapers? Answer. I did not; I felt it was useless, that it would have no effect. Question. You do not even now know the contents of this article, except such portions of it as the Chairman has read to you to-day? Answer. I do not; I do not recollect having read it since that time. By Mr. POLAND: Question. The letter which you wrote yourself, and which was published, you wrote after reading the article in the newspaper? Answer. Yes, sir; I wrote that letter after reading the article in the paper. Question. You then knew what it was? Answer. Yes, sir. By Mr. BECK: Question. This is your letter: "MEMPHIS, September 3, 1868. "DEAR SIR: I have just read your letter in the Commercial, giving a report of our conversation on Friday last. I do not think you would intentionally misrepresent me, but you have done so, and I suppose you mistook my meaning. The portions of youi letter to which I object are corrected in the following paragraphs: "I promised the legislature my personal influence and aid in maintaining order and enforcing the laws. I have never advised the people to resist any law, but to submit to the laws until they can be corrected by lawful legislation. " I said the militia bill would occasion no trouble, unless they violated the law by earring out the governor's proclamation, which I believe to be unconstitutional and in violence of law, in shooting men down without trial, as recommended by that proclamation. " I said it was reported, and I believed the report, that there are 40,000 Ku-Klux in Tennessee; and I believe the organization stronger in other States. I meant to imply, when I said that the Ku-Klux recognized the Federal Government, that they would obey all State laws. They recognize all laws and will obey them, so I have been informed, in protecting peaceable citizens from oppression from any quarter. " I did not say that any man's house was picketed. I did not mean to convey the idea that I would raise any troops, and, more than that, no man could do it in five days, if they were organized.

Page  14 14 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. " I said that General Grant was at Holly Springs and not at Corinth; I said the charge against him was false, but I did not use the word'liar.' " I cannot consent to remain silent in this matter; for if I do, under an incorrect impression of my personal views, I might be looked upon as one desiring a conflict, when, in truth, I am so adverse to anything of the kind that I will make any honorable sacrifice to avoid it. " Hoping that I may have this explanation placed before your readers, I remain, very respectfully," &c. Did I understand you to tell the Chairman that you did not undertake to correct all the misrepresentations of the correspondence, but only such things as you thought did you personal injustice? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Leaving the false misrepresentations to stand for what they were worth? Answer. That is what I intended to do. In fact, I did not want to go into a long detail of the thing. I said to this gentleman that I believed there was such an organization from the best information that I could get. But as to the numbers I did not tell him, because I knew nothing about the numbers. I said to him that I did not believe there would be any conflict with the people of Tennessee, unless the militia went out and attempted to destroy the people, as Governor Brownlow's proclamation indicated. Question. What was your understanding of that proclamation of Brownlow? I have forgotten all about it. Answer. I have not read the proclamation since it first came out. I was very actively engaged, and have been since that time, in trying to build railroads and establish factories and founderies in the country. I have been traveling and working all the time, and I have not thought anything about these things. My recollection of his proclamation is that the militia should not be punished, or would not be punished, for any depredations they might commit upon rebels; that the people there would be treated ad rebels, &c.; intimating that if a man killed a man who had been in the southern army, there would be nothing done with him. By Mr. VAN TRUMP: Question. That proclamation was issued after the close of the war? Answer. Yes, sir; in 1866 or 1867, I believe; about the time of this organization. Question. Do you not know the fact that these leagues were organized before the KuKlux was heard of? Answer. I do not know whether it was or not; but that was my understanding-that this organization was organized after the proclamation and after those leagues. By Mr. BECK: Question. What was the effect upon the people of Tennessee as to their sense of security of life and property, and the safety of their wives and children, after that proclamation of Brownlow; whatever may have been the language of it, what impression was produced upon the people of Tennessee by it? Answer. It produced a great deal of fear and trepidation on the part of the people; they feared the militia would undertake to carry out the idea of the proclamation. By Mr. VAN TRUMP: Question. It was a kind of amnesty for any future depredations this militia might commit. Answer. Yes, sir; that was the intent of the proclamation; at least the southern people so looked upon it. If a man belonging to the militia should shoot you and me down, if we were southern men, there would be nothing done to him. By Mr. BECK: Question. That was the impression made upon the people? Answer. Yes, sir; and then the Loyal League coming in about the same time, and these rapes being committed, and the impudent colored people constantly toting about arms, firing in the night-time, created a great deal of uneasiness in the thick neighborhoods, where there were negroes; but in the poorer neighborhoods I do not think that insecurity was felt. Question. Were the white people disarmed by Brownlow's orders, and forbidden, in organized bodies, to carry arms? Answer. I think so; I do not recollect now. Question. Was that the fact? Answer. That was the understanding. Question. Were the militia composed mostly of colored men? Avswer. No, sir; not in that part of the State; I think that in the middle portion of the State the most of them were white men, but I think some colored troops were out.

Page  15 MISCELLANEOUS. 15 Question. That militia was organized under that proclamation, and substantially took possession of the police of the country? Answer Yes, sir. Question. While they were in power, was it the fact that there were cases of rape, arson, house-breaking, and other crimes? Answer. There were cases of that sort reported throughout the country; I do not know to what extent; and there were cases where they were tried and put in the penitentiary, and the governor pardoned them at once; they were turned loose; I merely heard of one or two cases, but I do not recollect them now. By Mr. VAN TRUMP: Question. Was not the very name of Brownlow at that time a terror to the people of Tennessee? Answer. It was; they were very much frightened. By Mr. BECK: Question. So that his militia were not regarded as being put out in good faith for the protection of the people, but to put down one party and elevate the other for his own political aggrandizement. Answer. That was the understanding, and a great many.men had to fly the country in East Tennessee; and a great many have not gone back yet. A great many who had been in the southern army were killed, when they returned home, by Union men. There was more bitterness there than in any other part of the country. By Mr. VAN TRUMP: Question. East Tennessee was Brownlow's residence before he was governor? Answer. Yes, sir. By Mr. BECK: Question. You say that whatever organization of Ku-Klux, or anything else, took place in the region of country with which you are familiar, it was gotten up through fear of depredations by the militia, and was the result of that state of things? Answer. That is my understanding of it. Question. And for the protection of themselves where the law was considered powerless? Answer. According to my understanding, the organization was intended entirely as a protection to the people, to enforce the laws, and protect the people against outrages. Question. Without any regard to whether they were perpetrated by democrats or republicans? Answer. Yes, sir, I do not think that would make any difference; that is, that is my impression, while I do not know that is so; that was the general understanding in the community. Question. So far as you had any understanding or information, was it to act upon elections in any shape or form? Answer. No, sir, I never heard it said it was to have anything to do with elections. By Mr. VAN TRUMP: Question. In Tennessee you did not care much about elections then? Answer. A large portion of the people in the State were disfranc12sed, and they did not attempt to make any effort to carry elections. By Mr. BECK: Question. Did there not come a change for the better over Tennessee in 1868, in the management of their laws? Answer. As I said before, this organization was dispersed. By Mr. STEVENSON: Question. When was it dispersed? Answer. In the early part of 1868. Question. Do you mean in the spring of 1868? Answer. Yes, sir; well, it might have been in the early part of the summer months; I cannot say, I do not know now. By Mr. BECK: Question. This communication, in the Cincinnati Commercial, bears date of the 1st of September, 1868. Were you speaking of the then existing state of things, or a previously existing state of things? Answer. The letter I wrote was in answer to the letter this man had written. Question. That was in September? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And you think that at that time the organization had been disbanded? Answer. Well, it must have been later than that; it must have been in the latter part of 1868, I reckon, that it was disbanded.

Page  16 16 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Question. Later than you first thought? Answer. Yes, sir, I think it must have been in the latter part of 1868. Question. The date of this communication would indicate that it was later than yorL first said? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. When was Senter elected governor of Tennessee; in 1868 or 1869? An.wer. I do not recollect; I have never voted, and have not paid any attention to the elections. Question. You never have voted? Answer. I voted a short time ago at Memphis for a subscription to build a railroad. By Mr. VAN TRUMP: Question. That was not a political vote? Answer. No, sir; I have never offered a political vote; that is the only vote I have cast since the war. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. Did you vote in 1868? Answer. No, sir. By Mr. BECK: Question. You could not? Answer. No, sir. Question. At that time there was a large number of men in Tennessee disfranchised? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And you were one of them? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. When that organization was disbanded in 1868, what was the information you had as to the reason why it was disbanded? Answer. That there was no further use for it; that the country was safe; that there was no apprehension of any trouble. Question. You believed the laws would be vindicated without any interference of the people to protect themselves? Answer. Yes, sir; Governor Brownlow had modified himself very much; the laws were going on and being respected and executed. Question. Is it your understanding that persons who, of late, within the last year or two, have been disguising themselves and violating the law, haye been doing it as mere temporary organizations? Answer. I think it has been among wild young men and bad men; I do not think they have had any such organization. Question. They have been called by the same name of the original organization that once existed? A.newer. Yes, sir. Question. What is the length of your line of railroad? Answer. It is two hundred and eighty miles. Question. Running through the counties you have named? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. During the last year or two has there been any serious trouble among the people, white or black, along that line of road? Answer. I have heard of but three cases. One is where they took out a man who had been arrested and put in jail for stealing horses. Another was at Greensboro in regard to the probate judge, who was a southern man living there. I understood these men came to his house; in fact, Judge Blackford came to me for protection, and I did protect him for a week. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. He was the probate judge? Answer. Yes, sir; they got after him, but he made his escape. By Mr. BECK: Question. In what county was that? Answer. In Hale County. Question. How long ago? Answer. I suppose five or six months ago. Question. That was the horse thief? Answer. No, sir; these men went there and turned out the horse thief. They went down after Blackford, who made his escape. I myself came there the next day, and he came to me and I protected him until he went away; finally he left the country. I do not know where he went. I heard that he had been appointed an agent in the mail service; probably, in Alabama.

Page  17 MISCELLANEOUS. 17 Question. What was the pretext for annoying him? Ansteer. Be was looked upon as a man who had given a great deal of bad advice to the negroes, and kept them in confusion, and off the plantations. He was a southern man, who had been in the confederate army, and had gone over to the radical party. He had large meetings of the negroes at his house, firing around and shooting, and it had become very dissatisfactory to the people. He was a drinking man, and when drunk would make threats. I do not myself believe there was any harm in him. I had had a great deal to do with him; he and I had canvassed two counties together. By Mr. VAN TRUMP: Question. Canvassed for railroads Answer. Yes, sir; he assisted me in my elections. In fact I had the assistance of republicans in all the elections I held in each county, except Greene County. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. Upon the question of local subscriptions to railroads? Answer. Yes, sir. By Mr. VAN TRUMP: Question. There has been some intimation in the testimony about your road being used to carry men in disguise. Has there been anything of that sort done on your road with your knowledge or consent? Answer. I am satisfied there has been nothing of that sort done. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. Is your road finished? Answer. Fifty miles, on which I am running trains every day. By Mr. COBURN: Question. Where? Answer. From Marion Junction out to Warrior River, near Eutaw. By Mr. BECK: Question. The attack on Blackford was because of his official misconduct? Answer. I understood so; they never understood whether it was by white men or by black men; they were all strangers there, I understood. They were in the street, and I believe they got down and went into the hotel. Question. Were they disguised? Answer. I do not think they had any disguises on their faces at all Question. Blackford was not hurt? Answer. No, sir. Question. You have stated two cases; what was the third case? Answer. That was the case in Pontotoc; I do not think anybody was hurt there, except that one of the men who were in disguise was killed. By Mr. STEVENSON: Question. Do you refer to the attack on Flournoy? Answer. That case and the two cases of Boyd and Blackford are the only three cases I have heard of on the line of my road. And the cases of Boyd and Flournoy were on the portions of the road that were not being worked at the time; we were not occupying that portion of the road; but at Greensboro we were working on the road. By Mr. BECK: Question. Has there been any difficulty with your hands along the line of your road? Answer. Not a bit. Question. Do you work many negroes? Answer. I have about four hundred. Question. They vote as they please, as far as you know? Answer. They voted as they pleased at the last election. About three hundred had come from North Carolina, but they were not entitled to vote; had not been in Alabama long enough; they had been working a portion of the time in Mississippi, and they did not vote. But all those who were entitled to vote voted without any molestation. I said when I started out with my roads that railroads had no politics; that I wanted the assistance of everybody; that railroads were for the general good of the whole country. We have had no political discussion along the line of my road; we have had no difficulty. I hired three hundred colored menin North Carolina, and they worked for me twelve months; their time was outlast May; they werepaid oEf. About one hundred and fifty of them returned, and a portion of them, in fact I think all but about fifteen, have come back. They got one-half of their money monthly until the end of the year, when they were paid off. 2B

Page  18 18 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Question. You say you canvassed every civil district in those counties for.your railroad? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. In the course of that canvass did there seem to be any difficulty in enforcing the laws where you have been, and protecting men in their lives, liberty, and property? Ansuer. I have not heard of any; the laws are regularly executed. Question. In the course of your experience have you heard of a man being molested for his political opinions upon one side or the other? Answer. This man Blackford I suppose was molested because he was thought to be tampering with the negroes and preventing them from working. Question. It was believed that he had gone out of the legitimate sphere of politics, and perhaps advised violence? Answer. Yes, sir. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. Had Blackford advised violence? Answer. It was a rumor through the town that he had been talking with the negroes. Question. Had he been advising violence? Answer. I heard him once advise violence when we were canvassing together. He was drunk. I do not think he was responsible then. He came to me the next day and said that he was ashamed of himself; that was at Hay's Mound. Question. What did he say? Answer. I do not recollect exactly his words; but it was something about fighting their own way, having their own way, and if people did not let them have it, make them do it; stand up to them; it was very offensive. While I did not think much of it, southern men did who were there and heard it. I told him that we ought not to let such things as that get into the road. I was very much abused by some of the presses in Alabama for having anything to do with Blackford, and was accused of being a radical myself. The papers went on to abuse me about going over to the republican party. Question. Was the substance of what Blackford said that they should assert their rights? Answer. It was in a loose, drunken way that he was talking to them; I do not think he really knew what he was saying. By Mr. STEVENSON: Question. You have stated the substance of what he said? Answer. Yes, sir. By Mr. BECK: Question. That they ought to take their rights if they were not given to them, and he would stand by them? Answer. Yes, sir; it was in a boasting, bragging, drunken manner, that I did not think amounted to anything. There were some who tried to make something out of it; but I tried to excuse Blackford on the ground that he was drunk. I wanted the subscriptions and tried to carry all the votes I could. I set out by saying that railroads had no politics. I do not think they ought to have or will have as long as I can help it. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. I have here before me a communication published in a paper called the Southern Argus, at Selma; do you know that paper? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Is it a democratic paper Answer. I cannot tell you really what its politics are. Question. The communication is very short; I will read it. It is from the Southern Argus, published at Selma, Alabama, February 3, 1871: THE LATE GREENSBORO AFFAIR. " To the editor of the Argus: " SR: I see from your article in your last issue, January 27, that you accuse a body of disguised men of going to Greensboro, on Tuesday last, and releasing a man from the jail in that place who had been confined for horse stealing. We inform you, sir, that your author has told a malicious falsehood. The man who was released on that evening was not confined for horse stealing, but for killing a negro and the taking of a Yankee's horse, openly, that it might enable him to make his escape from a court (like Blackford's) of injustice; and we say to you, sir, that the party did not visit Greensboro on that evening for the purpose of releasing this man McCrary, but for the purpose of catching and giving Mr. Blackford what he lawfully deserves, and will get be

Page  19 MISCELLANEOUS. 19 fore the lst day of March. We do not communicate to you for the purpose of clearing ourselves of but one thing, and that is the release of a horse-thief. Sir, it is not our object to release thieves; but, on the other hand, it is our sworn duty to bring them all to justice; and we in this section of country intend and will see that all thieves shall be punished to the extent of the law; and in cases where the law cannot reach them, the party that released the man in Greensboro will give them all they deserve, and perhaps a little more. "Yours, truly, &c., "K. W. C." " P. S.-The writer is a subscriber to your paper, and would be pleased to see this and an additional article by you in your next issue. "K. "ALABAMA, January 31,1871." Is the sentiment contained in that article really a sentinent which receives countenance in the community? Answer. I do not think so. I never read that article; I heard it spoken of and very much condemned by the best men in the county. Question. You think, then, that the sentiment there that killing a negro is a less offense than stealing a horse — Answer. I never heard of this man killing a negro. Question. This writer says: "( We do not communicate to you for the purpose of clearing ourselves of but one thing, and that is the release of a horse-thief. Sir, it is not our object to release thieves * * i The man who was released on that evening was not confined for horse-stealing, but for killing a negro." Is that sentiment sustained there at all-that it is a lighter offense to kill a negro than to steal horses? Answer. No, sir; there is no man who believes that the offense of killing a negro is less than killing a white man. By Mr. STEVENSON: Question. Did you know who this correspondent was who published the account of the interview with you? Answer. I never saw him before. Question. When you saw him did you learn who he was? Answer. Yes, sir; he told me who he was afterward. Question. You got his name? Answer. I do not think I did at the time. Question. When? Answer. After the article was written. Question. Did you get it from the communication? Answer. Probably he told me his name. I reckon he did; but it was just as I say to you; I was in that condition that I do not recollect anything. I was suffering from a sick-headache, and had started to my house. Question. Did he walk along with you? Answer. I sat on the steps for three or four minutes, and then he walked along to my gate. Question. How far? Answer. Sixty or eighty yards. Question. You walked along talking? Answer. Very little, I think. Question. May it not well be that you were in such a condition at that time that you do not remember now what you did say? Answer. I do not pretend to say that I recollect all that was said. Question. How many men did you surrender at the end of the war t Answer. About 6,000; I think between six and seven thousand. Question. Was it not about 7,000?.Answer. Well, it is likely it was. I do not recollect the number now. Question. You would have been more likely to have remembered in 1868 than now Answer. No, sir; I do not think I would. Question. Did you accept a parole at that time t Answer. I did, and issued an address when I did accept the parole-I do not know whether you have had it or not-it was published in all your papers. I said to my men that they had been good soldiers and could be good citizens; that they should go home and obey the laws of the country. And so far as I know, not one soldier who served under me has been molested for any offense since the war. Question. Were you pardoned? Answer. I was. Question. How? Answer. By President Johnson. Question. By a special pardon? Answer. Yes, sir.

Page  20 20 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STAT S. Question. When? Answer. In 1868, probably, immediately after his proclamation. I was then on my plantation in Mississippi, and I felt it to be the duty of every good man to try to restore a good condition of things to the country. I went to Jackson and made my application for a pardon to Governor Sharkey, in order that others might do it. Question. Did not the general amnesty cover your case? Answer. I think it did; I never held a political office in my life. Question. Did you speak with this correspondent about the bad state of things in Tennessee, about Brownlow and his proceedings? Answer. It is more than likely we did have some conversation about that. Question. Was the condition of things pretty bad about that time? Answer. There was great turmoil all over the country. Question. Excitement running high? Answer. Yes, sir; on both sides. Question. You understood that Brownlow by his proclamation had outlawed what he called rebels? Answer. That is the way the Southern people looked upon it. Question. Wag not there danger of collision about that time? Answer. Yes, sir, imminent danger; and we came very near having it in many places between the troops and the citizens. I think they did have it at Jackson, and pr::bably one man was killed. Question. Did you say anything to Mr. Woodward about your regard for the old Government in 1861? Answer. I do not recollect now what was said. I have said, and have always said, that there was no time during the war that I would not have been willing to have taken up the old flag with the Northern people and fought any other nation, and given the last drop of blood I had. I have said that, and I say it yet. Question. Did you not tell of your love to the old Government of 1861, and your love to the Constitution? Answer. I cannot tell. Question. Those were your sentiments? Answer. They were, and are yet. Question. Did you not talk about negro suffrage? Answer. Well, I do not know whether we did or not. Question. You were opposed to negro suffrage then, were you not? Answer. No, sir. My views in regard to this war are probably different from those of most men. I looked upon it as a war upon slavery when it broke out; I so considered it. I said to forty-five colored fellows on my plantation that it was a war upon slavery, and that I was going into the army; that if they would go with me, if we got whipped they would be free anyhow, and that if we succeeded and slavery was perpetuated, if they would act faithfully with me to the end of the war, I would set them free. Eighteen months before the war closed I was satisfied that we were going to be defeated, and I gave these forty-five men, or forty-four men of them, their free papers, for fear I might be killed. Question. When was that? Answer. In 1863. When the war closed I looked upon it as an act of Providence, and felt that we ought to submit to it quietly; and I have never done or said anything that was contrary to the laws that have been enacted. Question. Did you not talk with Woodward about the fact that they were then voting in Tennessee upon the question of enfranchising the whites, removing all disabilities from them? Answer. I do not think we talked upon that subject; I do not think we had time. Question. That is the reason you did not talk upon it? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Was not that on your mind at the time? Answer. OP course; that and everything else connected with the political condition of the country was on my mind at that time. ^ Question. That was the great question in Tennessee, whether the wrhites should be enfranchised again? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You were trying to get the negroes to vote for that; I do not mean you individually, but your people..Answer. I think the object was to get them to vote for it. Question. You carried it? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Did you not say to Mr. Woodward that if the negroes would vote in favor of enfranchising the white people you would not be in favor of disfranchising them? Answer. I advocated the fourteenth and fifteenth amendments before the people, and told our people that they were inevitable and should be accepted. Question. Do you not remember saying to Mr. Woodward that if the negroes would vote to enfranchise the whites you would not be in favor of disfranchising them?

Page  21 MISCELLANEOUS. 21 Answer. I do not remember saying it, though I might have said it. Question. Was not that your feeling? Answer. Of course it was. Question. Did you talk with Mr. Woodward about General Grant? Answer. I think something was said about General Grant, in regard to some abuse heaped upon him at that time, in reference to his taking pianos from Holly Springs. I said I did not believe it; that I had talked with parties in Holly Springs who denied it; that I did not believe General Grant, or any other officer occupying his high position, would be guilty of such conduct. Questioz. Did you ever investigate that matter? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Did you say so to Mr. Woodward? Answer. I did not investigate it thoroughly, but I asked parties who lived in Holly Springs in regard to it, and they contradicted it? Question. You inquired into it? Answer. Yes, sir; afterward. Question. Before you had this conversation with Woodward? Answer. I reckon it was before that, because I had heard the charges made and did not believe them, and could no- believe them. Question. When this letter of Woodward was published, did it not create some talk and excitement among your friends there? Answer. Yes, sir; a great deal; not among my friends particularly, but among those of both parties. Question. I notice that it was published in the Cincinnati Commercial of the 1st of September, 1868. Answer, Yes, sir. Question. That was pending the presidential election? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. The excitement was running pretty high there? Answer. Probably not so high there as in other parts of the State. Question. You had a State question in addition? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. It created some talk, did it not, that a man in your position should make such statements, and you conferred with your friends about it? Answer. Very little. Question. Did they not come to you and talk about it? Answer. No, sir; very few people talked with me about it. Question. How many? Answer. I cannot tell; I do not think I have had a half a dozen men come to me and talk upon that subject exclusively. Question. I mean this subject and others. Answer. I was consulting about political affairs as well as other affairs. Question. And incidentally they would mention this letter? Answer. I do not recollect of but very few men who mentioned that letter to me. Question. You say this letter of explanation is the only one you have made with regard to the charges made against you in newspapers or speeches, making charges against you? Answer. No, sir; I did not say that. Question. I understood you so. Answer. No, sir. Question. How many have you written in answer to newspaper articles? Answer. I cannot tell you. I think I wrote one other letter, probably two, making some explanations in regard to Fort Pillow. Question. You said awhile ago that you did not have twenty words talk with Mr. Woodward; did you mean to be understood in that way? Answer. I should have said twenty minutes, I reckon; because I sat down on my doorsteps, as I said awhile ago, and sat there a little while, a part of the time vomiting; then I got up and walked to my house, which was about eighty or ninety yards from my office, and he walked with me to the gate. I said that I was too unwell to talk with him, and went up stairs and went to bed. He said he would come there again that evening, but I never saw him. Question. When you wrote this letter of the 3d of September you were in good health? Answer. No, sir; I have not been in good health since the war; but I was in my usual health. Question. You were not then suffering from any headache or pain? Answer. No, sir. Question. Did you say that you believed the Ku-Klux was organized only in Middle Tennessee? Answer. No, sir; I did not say that, I do not think.

Page  22 22 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Question Where did you believe it was organized? Answer. I have no idea where it was organized. Question. I want your opinion about it, not your knowledge, your impression about it? Answer. I remarked that I thought it originated in Middle Tennessee. Question. Where did this thing spring up? Answer. I do not know. Question. What is your impression, what place? Answer. I have no knowledge. Question. Do you say in Middle Tennessee? Answer. I think in Middle Tennessee. I have no idea what place, or who started it. Question. Have you never heard? Answer. It has been said I organized it; that I started it. Question. Is that so? Answer. No, sir; it is not. Question. You do not know who did? Answer. I do not know who did it. It was afterward said that 4t was gotten up at Johnson's Island when there were prisoners there. Question. Among the rebel prisoners? Answer. Yes, sir; but nobody knows, I reckon, where it was started. I never heard a man say that he knew who started it; I do not know myself. Question. You were then living in Memphis? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Did you not know that an organization of it was talked of there and exposed in the papers? Answer. No, sir. Question. Did you never hear of that? Answer. Yes, sir; I heard of it, but it was not an organization. Question. What was it? Answer. I understood it was a lot of twelve and fourteen-year old boys who had got it up. Question. Something like the Ku-Klux organization? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. From whom did you understand that? Answer. From rumor; I was not in Memphis at the time that was talked of, but it was always my impression that it was a farce; that it was a lot of boys. Question. They seemed to have a constitution? Answer. I do not think they had; I never heard they did. I knew a part of the boys; they were twelve or fourteen or fifteen years old; that is, I knew boys who, it was said, were caught there that night. Question. Did not the Ku-Klux admit young boys? Answer. I think not. Question. How old did they require them to be? Answer. I do not know; but I do not think they admitted boys, though. Question. What is your knowledge on that subject? Answer. My information was that they admitted no man who was not a gentleman, and a man who could be relied upon to act discreetly; not men who were in the habit of drinking, boisterous men, or men liable to commit error or wrong, or anything of that sort; that is what I understood. Question. Into what States did you understand that the organization extended? Answer. It was reported that there was an organization in Mississippi; that was the rumor. Question. In what other State? Ansuer. And it was reported that there was one in North Alabama. Question. Where else? Answer. Probably it was reported that it was in North Carolina, about where this man Saunders died, about Asheville; those are the only States I recollect of. Question. Did you not hear of it in Louisiana? Answer. No, sir. Question. Did you hear of the Knights of the White Camelia there? Answer. Yes; they were reported to be there. Question. Were you ever a member of that order? Answer. I was. Question. You were a member of the Knights of the White Camelia? Answer. No, sir; I never was a member of the Knights of the White Camelia. Question. What order was it that you were a member of? Answer. An order they called the Pale Faces; a different order from that. Question. Where was that organized? Answer. I do not know. Question. Where did you join it? Answer. In Memphis.

Page  23 MISCELLANEOUS. 23 Question. When? Answer. It was in 1867; but that was a different order from this. Question. What was that? Answer. Something like Odd Fellowship, Masonry, orders of that sort, for the purpose of protecting the weak and defenseless, &c. Question. Something on the same principles that the Ku-Klux afterward had? Answer. Something similar to that, only it was a different order, for the purpose of preventing crime, and for the purpose of protecting each other in case of sickness, or, anything-preventing disorder. Question. By whom? Answer. By anybody. Question. From whom did you apprehend disorder? Answer. We apprehended disorder at that time from nearly everybody. There was a great deal of disorder from all political parties. Question. Particularly from what class Answer. From both classes. There was the greatest bitterness there betwixt the soldiers of the two armies-not particularly so in my neighborhood, but in East Tennessee, and in portions of Middle Tennessee. About Memphis we had no trouble at all; we never had any trouble at Memphis. Question. You had this order there? Answer. It existed there. Question. Did it extend over Tennessee? Answer. I do not know whether it did or not. Question. Had that order any constitution? Answer. I never saw any, if it had one. Question. Had it any sort of ritual? Answer. No, sir; I think not. Question. Had it any limitations as to membership? Answer. I cannot tell you that, for I was never in the organization but once or twice. I went there more to see what was going on than anything else, and paid very little attention to it. Question. Did they admit boys into the order t Answer. I do not think they did. Question. Did they admit negroes? Answer. I do not think they did. Question. Did they admit women? Answer. I do not think they did. Question. It was an organization of white men? Answer. I think so. Question. And from that they called it Pale Faces? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Had it any signs? Answer. I do not recollect any of them. Question. They had them? Answer. I suppose they had. Question. Did it have any pass-words? Answer. I do not recollect whether it did or not; I never was in it but twice. Question. Did it have any grips? Answer. I do not think so. Question. Did you take any oath? Answer. No, sir. Question. Was it a secret organization? Answer. I suppose it was. I was invited around there once or twice, and they sup. posed I was all right and would not divulge anything. Question. Who invited you? Answer. Some of the members. Question. Who were they? Answer. I cannot tell you now. Question. Why not? Answer. I do not recollect. Question. How many were there? Answer. I do not think there were more than one or two. Question. How many were present? Answer. I do not recollect. Question. About how many? Answer. I have no idea. Question. Were there forty or fifty? Answer. I do not think there were more than a dozen when I was these. Question. Where did they meet? Answer. In a hall or a room.

Page  24 24 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS' IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Question. In Memphis? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Where in Memphis? Answer. I believe it was on Second street. Question. In whose building? Answer. Well, I do not recollect that now. Question. Do you remember who were present? Answer. No, sir. Question. You do not remember any of them? Answer. I do not remember. Question. You do not remember the name of one of them? Answer. No, sir; I might, if I had time to think the matter over, recollect these things. In the last two years I have been very busily engaged. I came out of the war pretty well wrecked. I was in the army four years; was on the front all the time, and was in the saddle more than half my time; and when I came out of the army I was completely used up-shot all to pieces, crippled up, and found myself and my family entirely dependent. I wept into the army worth a million and a half of dollars, and came out a beggar. I have given all my time since then, so far as was in my power, to try to recover. Question. About this order of Pale Faces; you understand that to be a secret order? Answer. Yes, sir; just as Odd Fellowship and Masonry would be, and I presume the Loyal League was. Question. So when I asked you if you belonged to the Knights of the White Camelia, and you said you did, you at first thought I was referring to the Pale Faces? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. The principles were about the same? Answer. I do not know what the White Camelia's were. Question. It professed to be an order for the protection of white people against disorders, particularly by the blacks. Answer. The great fear of the people at that time was that they would be dragged into a revolution something like San Domingo. Question. A war of races? Answer. Yes; a war of races. The object of the people was not to disobey the laws of the country, but to see them enforced and to fortify themselves against anything of the sort. That was my understanding of all these things. Question. Of all these orders, Ku-Klux, Pale Faces, Knights of the White Camelia? Answer. No, sir; I do not know anything about the Knights of the White Camelia; I never heard of them before. The object of the organization was to prevent a general slaughter of women and children, and to prepare themselves to resist anything of the kind. Question. Was not that same apprehension broadcast all over the South, so far as your being in fear of a negro insurrection or a war of races? Answer. I think it was. During the war our servants remained with us, and behaved very well. When the war was over our servants began to mix with the republicans, lnd they broke off from the Southern people, and were sulky and insolent. There was a general fear throughout the country that there would be an uprising, and that with those men who had stopped among us —those men who came in among us, came there and went to our kitchens and consulted with the negroes-many of them never came about the houses at all. It was different with me. I carried seven Federal officers home with me, after the war was over, and I rented them plantations, some of my own lands, and some of my neighbors'. In 1866 those seven officers made a crop in my neighborhood. I assisted those men, and found great relief from them. They got me my hands, and they kept my hands engaged for me. Question. The negroes had confidence in them because they were Northern men? Answer. Yes, sir. I persuaded our people to pursue the same course. These men were all young men, and they made my house their home on Sundays. Question. It seems you had more confidence in Northern men than others down there had?,Answer. I think I had. Question. You say there was a general feeling all through the South, at least there was in Tennessee, of apprehension of general trouble with the negroes, out of which grew this organization? Answer. That was the cause of it. Question. Is it not your impression that this organization and that same feeling extended generally through the South? Answer. I cannot say; I never heard of that. Question. What is your impression? Answer. My impression is that it did not. Question. Would.not the same cause produce like effects?..nswer. I think it would; but I do not think they existed throughout the South.

Page  25 MISCELLANEOUS. 25 Question. Simply because you have not heard of them? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Did you hear of them in Arkansas? Answer. I cannot say I did. They had a terrible difficulty in Arkansas there; the militia was brought out and hung a great many men. Question. I am not speaking of those troubles. But did you not hear of the existence of Ku-Klux, or something of that kind, in Arkansas? Answer. It was reported that they were on White River; that is the only place I heard of them. Question. On the Upper White River? Answer. In Arkansas. Question. Was it on the Upper White River? Answer. I do not know whether it was the Upper or the Lower White River; I think it was about the middle; I think about Circe, Arkansas. Question. Did you not hear of troubles in Louisiana-massacres, bloodshed there, conflicts of the races? Answer. We frequently heard of them in different places. Question. Was there nothing said about Ku-Klux, or Knights of the White Camelia, in connection with that? Answer. I never heard anything of it. Question. Your business led you East? Answer. Immediately after the war, in 1866, I planted. Question. I am speaking more particularly of 1868. Answer. In 1867 I was in the insurance business, as president of a fire-insurance company, and I organized a life-insurance company. My business was principally in Tennessee and Alabama, but my health became so bad that I could not travel, and remained at home. In 1868 I went into this railroad business, and since the fall of 1868 my whole time has been occupied in that. Question. And your railroad business leads you East? Answer. Southeast, in the direction of Selma, Alabama. Question. So that you would not be so likely to hear of what took place west of.the Mississippi? Answer. Of course I would have heard; I suppose it is published in the papers. Question. Have you heard of anything of this sort in Texas? Answer. I do not think I have; I have heard of some difficulties there among the republicans, radicals as we call them, and scalawags, what we called renegades, Southern men who joined the federal army; they had difficulty all over the country. Question. Do you call everybody who was in the rebel army and afterwards joined the republicans-do you call them scalawags? Answer. Yes, sir, generally. Question.. And the people from the North who go down there are called carpet-baggers? Answer. They are distinguished in that way; they are not all called carpet-baggers. Question. Why not? Answer. There is a difference betwixt them. Some men go down there and go to planting, and do not have anything to do with politics; behave themselves, and do not mix with the negroes more than white people. They are looked upon as a different class of people. Question. They are not called carpet-baggers. Answer. I db not know that they are called anything except Southern citizens. I know some men who stand as fair in Mississippi, Tennessee, and Alabama as anybody we haVe there. Question. Men who go there, spend money, attend to business, and keep out of politics. Answer. I suppose they vote; but then they are not running all over the country holding Loyal Leagues and negro meetings. Question. Making stump speeches? Answer. Yes, sir; but they are quiet people, attending to their business as most other people do. Question. What do you call Southern gentlemen who go about the country making democratic speeches, organizing the democratic party, and getting it into line? Answer. They are called democrats, I reckon. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. Suppose one of that class of whom you have been speaking who has gone down there and attended to planting, but has been quiet politically, although he is a republican, suppose he should take the stump and go to making political speeches, would that change the current of opinion against him? Answer. Very much. I do not mean if he was a gentleman, and took the stump and made a canvass like other gentlemen did; he would not be looked upon just as those who go around with the negroes, and board and sleep with the negroes.

Page  26 26 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Question. Suppose he asserts publicly on the stump the political opinions he entertains, in a proper manner, would he be visited with any reprobation or ostracism for taking that position? Answer. I think not; I never heard of one that was. Question. Take General Warner, of Alabama; I understand that he went down there and went to planting. Answier. I do not know him; I never saw him but once in my life; he was introduced to me in Montgomery. I would suppose that if General Warner was to behave himself and act as I have said, I am satisfied he would be treated as I have indicated. By Mr. STEVENSON: Question. Now to go back to this talk with Mr. Woodward; did you not tell hin that you believed there were forty thousand Ku-Klux in Tennessee? Answer. I did not, most emphatically; I told him no such thing, because I did not know how many there were. Question. Did you not tell him that it was reported and that you belie-ed there were forty thousand of them in Tennessee? Answer. I told him it was reported so. Question. And did you not tell him that you believed so? Answer. No, sir. Question. Did you not believe it? Answer. I did not, for I had no more idea than you had how many there were there. Question. Did you tell him that it was reported that there were forty thousand in Tennessee, and you believed it, and that they were stronger in other Southern States? Answer. I did not. I told him it was reported-I may probably have said that to him-that there were forty thousand in Tennessee. It was reported so, and yourpapers stated it. Question. And you thought it was false? Answer. No; I did not say I thought so. Question. Did you think so t Answer. I did not know; I did not form any opinion about it, because I had no way of forming an opinion; I had no accurate knowledge about the fact. Question. Before you wrote this letter of yours did you ascertain that fact? Answer. No, sir, I did not. Question. Did you change your belief? Answer. No, sir; I did not; that communication did not change me at all. Question. Between the time you talked to Mr. Woodward and the time you wrote this letter you did not change your belief? Answer. No, sir; so far as numbers, position, conduct, and condition of the country was concerned, I made no change, because it was only a few days, and I had no opportunity to do so. I have a copy of a letter here, one of hundreds that I wrote. When I started away, my secretary, who was then the secretary of my company, brought it to me, with his affidavit that it was a true copy. I wrote a great many letters; my right shoulder was shot all to pieces and I write very badly, and he does all the copying. I have that letter with me; it was written in 1868, and the committee can have the use of it if they wish. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. Do you desire to have it incorporated into your testimony? Answer. I certainly do, as showing my feelings at that time. The affidavit and letter are as follows: "STATE OF TENNESSEE, City of Memphis: "Before me, J. P. Boughner, a notary public for Shelby County, this day personally appeared Walter A. Goodman, to me well known, who being first duly sworn deposeth and says: On the 28th of August, 1868, General N. B. Forrest wrote a letter to J. T. Brown in reply to a letter received from him. At General Forrest's request I made a copy of his letter and now file that copy as a part of this affidavit. To identify the copy I have marked it "Exhibit A" and have written my name upon it. The copy hereto attached is a literal copy of the original letter, which was mailed on the day of its date. During the greater part of the year 1868 and a part of 1869, I occupied the same office with General Forrest and was on intimate terms with him. During that time I saw many letters received and written by him, and heard many conversations held by him with different persons, in regard to matters of public and political interest, and on all occasions he uniformly opposed and discountenanced all acts of violence or disorder, and counseled moderation, quiet and obedience to the laws.' W. A. GOODMAN.: Sworn and subscribed to before me this 17th day of June, 1871. [SEAL.] "J. P. BOUGHNER,' "Notary Public."

Page  27 MISCELLANEOUS. 27 "MEMPHIS, August 28, 1868. "DEARn Sin: Your favor of the 26th instant has been received. While I sympathize with your desire to bring those who were guilty of murdering your brother to justice, and would willingly do anything in my power to aid you in this, I cannot consent to become a party, either directly or indirectly, to any act of violence, or to the infringement of any law. On the contrary, all my efforts have been, and shall be, exerted to preserve peace and order, and to maintain the law as far as possible. "' It is especially incumbent upon all good men at this time to keep the peace. Every act of violence, no matter by whom or for what cause committed, works an injury not only to the persons engaged it, but to the community in which it occurs, and through it to the whole South. Our enemies gladly seize upon such acts as the pretexts for further oppressions, and hence it becomes, more than ever before, the duty of every man to refrain from them, no matter how great the provocation he may have received. I beg, and insist therefore, that you abandon the purpose you indicate, and hope that no one will be so unwise as to aid you in carrying it out. "You will excuse me, I hope, for saying that it was very imprudent to send your letter by mail. If it had fallen into the hands of others it might, without some explanations, have caused some trouble to both of us. " Hoping that you may receive what I have said in the same spirit in which it is written, I am, your obedient servant, "N. B. FORREST. "J. T. BROWN, Esq., Humboldt, Tenlnessee. "Original of above mailed August 29, 1868. C W. A. GOODMAN. " Exhibit A to affidavit of W. A. Goodman." By the CHAIRMAN: Question. What was the proposition made in his letter? Answer. His brother had been killed by some Union men, and he wanted to try and get revenge, and he wrote to me to assist him. Question. Did he propose to do it by organizing a party for that purpose? Answer. I do not know that he did. He was an old soldier, and his brother had been murdered, and he wrote to me. Question. Have you the letter in answer to which this letter of yours was written? Answer. No, sir, I burned his letter. By Mr. COBURN: Question. You have said that you were at that time receiving from fifty to a hundred letters a day relating to matters in the South. Have you any of those letters now? Answer. No, sir. Question. Who was your secretary at that time? Answer. A young man by the name of Lindsay. Question. What is his given name? Answer. I am not able to tell you now. Question. Is he in Memphis? Answer. No, sir. Question. Where is he? Answer. I do not know where he is. He was a telegraph operator. I have not seen him in eighteen months; perhaps I can ascertain his name. Question. You say you suppressed the Ku-Klan.Klan. How did you do it? By writing letters? Answer. I wrote a great many letters to people, and counseled them to abstain from all violence, and to be quiet and behave themselves, and let these things take their course. Question. Did you get any answers to your letters? Answer. To some of them I did. Question. What did you do with them? Answer. Perhaps I have some of those; but most of the other letters I burned up, for I did not want to get them into trouble; I supposed they were excited at the tune; there was a great deal of excitement in 1866 and 1867, immediately after the war. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. Were all of these people personal acquaintances who wrote to you? Answer. A great many of them I never saw. Question. How came they to write to you? Answer. I do not know; I suppose they thought I was a man who would do to counsel with.

Page  28 28 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. By Mr. VAN TRUMP: Question. They of course knew your history, as having been a prominent man in the confederate army? Answer. Yes, sir; I was rather a prominent man in the confederate army; I probably fought more battles than any other man in it; I was before the people probably more than any other man that was in it. By Mr. STEVENSON: Question. Look at this [handing witness a printed document] and say if it is a copy of the prescript that you received. Answer. [After loooking at the document.] I cannot say to you whether it is or not. Question. Is it like it in general terms? Answer. It looks something like it. Question. To the best of your belief is that or not a copy of the prescript you received? Answer. It looks very much like it; I would not say from memory that it is a true copy of it. Question. This is proved to have come from Tennessee, and purports to be a prescript of a secret order there; and to the best of your belief this is a copy of the one you received? Answer. I see there are some things in it, while I cannot say it is verbatim; it looks a great deal like it. I have not seen one of them since 1868. Question. If you want to examine it further you can do so. Answer. I do not think that is necessary; I would not be able to say positively that it is or is not. Question. It looks like it? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Do you think this differs from the other in any respect? Answer. I think there are several things if I could recollect them; but I do not know that I can explain them now. Question. If you see arly important difference you can state it. Answer. [After examining the document again.] This is not what I saw. Question. It has a general resemblance to it? Answer. Something similar, but this is not what I saw. Question. You think you saw something additional to this? Answer. Something different; I do not know that it was additional, because I do not think I ever saw this before. Question. Did you ever see anything like it? Answer. It was gotten up something on this plan, but I do not think it was this; I could not say this was the same. Question. Something on this general plan? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Were the same terms used? Answer. No, sir, I do not think they were. Question. None of them? Answer. There may have been some of them used; but I do not think the other used all these terms. Question. What were the terms used in the other differing from those used in this? Answer. As I said to you to-day, I could not tell; it was two or three years ago; I have been very busily engaged; it was a matter that gave me but very little thought at the time, and of course I did not charge my memory with it, for I was engaged in other matters. Question. Do you think you would know the prescript now if you saw it? Answer. I doubt it; I doubt whether I would know it if I should see it. Mr. STEVENSON. I ask that this document be attached to the testimony of this witness. It will be found in Miscellaneous Document No. 53, second session Forty-first Congress, House of Representatives; being one of the papers in the contested election case of Sheafe vs. Tillman, from the fourth congressional district of Tennessee. (See page 35 of this testimony.).By Mr. COBURN: Question. You have said something about a war of races being apprehended. Had you any more reason to apprehend a war of races after the rebellion was over than during the rebellion? Answer. A great deal more. Question. Why was that? Answer. For the reason that during the war the negroes remained at home working and were quiet, and were not organized. After the war, they left their homes, traveled all over the country, killed all the stock there was in the country to eat, were holding these night meetings, were carrying arms, and were making threats.

Page  29 MISCELLANEOUS. 29 Question. Is not the negro naturally submissive and quiet? Answer. Generally so. Question. Were they suffering from the hands of the white men as many wrongs after the war as before and during the war? Answer. I think more; I do not think they were suffering any during the war. Question. What wrongs? Answer. They were dissatisfied and disposed to fight and be abusive. They would kill stock, and when arrested large crowds of them would gather around the magistrates' offices, and threaten to take them away, and they did in several instances; and they had fights. Question. You say there was a general apprehension throughout the whole country that there would be a war of races? Answer. I think so; there was great fear. Question. What class of men organized to prevent this war of races; were they rowdies and rough men? Answer. No, sir; worthy men who belonged to the southern army; the others were not to be trusted; they would not fight when the war was on them, and of course they would not do anything when it was over. Question. Do you think that had any effect throughout the South to prevent a war of races? Answer. I think the organizing of these men, and showing a disposition that we were prepared to resist it, prevented it. Question. You think the negroes understood that to be the fact, that there was an organization throughout the South of that kind? Answer. I think so. Question. And hence they behaved themselves better? Answer. I think so; I know one man in Maury County told me that he had lost nearly everything that he had; that the pike that passed his house used to be lined from dark till daylight with negroes traveling forward; that these men traveled up the road one night, about twenty of them, in disguise; that it had been a month since those men had passed up the road, and he had not seen a negro there at.night since then. Question. Were there no lawless white men who went around robbing? Answer. I think so, and on the negroes' credit, too. Question. By what means did these "Pale Faces" expect to prevent these disorders Answer. By organizing themselves and holding themselves in readiness to resist anything of that sort that did occur. Question. By what means? Answer. Of course they had but one way to resist; they did not expect any assistance from the government of the State of Tennessee. Question. Prevent it by punishing the offenders? Answer. And defending themselves. Question. Suppose an outrage was committed and they caught the offender, what would they do? Answer. There was more or less mob law about that time through the Southern States. Question. The object was to resist outlawry and punish offenders? Answer. Yes, sir; I do not think the people intended to go and violate or wrong any one; but it was to punish those men who were guilty, and who the law would not touch; and to defend themselves in case of an attack. Question: What reason have you to believe that they have disbanded? Answer. From the fact that I do not hear anything of them, and it was generally understood that they were to be disbanded; it was generally understood throughout the country I have been in that they have disbanded, that there was no organization, and nothing in that line, except amongst lawless men-men who were trying to do something they ought not to do, to violate the law. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. You desired time to consider whether you would give us the names of those persons whose names were asked of you?.Answer. I cannot give you the names of those people; I do not recollect them.;Question. You gave the name of one man who was dead; another who was also dead you did not give the name of?,Answer. Two of these men have gone out of the country; they are not in the country now. Question: Who are they? Answer. One was named Jones. Question. What was his first name? Answer. He has gone to Brazil, and has been there for two or three years. Question. What was the name of the other? Answer. I am trying to think who he was; I cannot call his name to mindl nar.

Page  30 30 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Question. Are those all the names you wish to give or can give? Answer. I might give you more names if I had time to think about the thing. Of course I have not had time to think this thing over since we spoke about it a while ago, for I have been interrogated all the time busily. Mr. STEVENSON. I should like to have it understood that this witness will give us these names as'soon as he can remember them. If he cannot remember them in time to appear before the committee and give them, then that he will send in writing to the chairman a list of such names as he may hereafter remember. The CHAIRMAN. That will be very desirable. The WITNESS. I am disposed to do all I can to try and fetch these troubles to an end. I went into the army as a private, and fought my way up to the rank of lieutenant general. I tried to do my duty as a soldier, and since I have been out of the war I have tried to do my duty as a citizen. I have done more probably than any other man in the South to suppress these difficulties and keep them down. While I have been vilified and abused in the papers, and accused of things I never did while in the army and since, I have no desire to hide anything from you at all. I want this matter settled; I want our country quiet once more; and I want to see our people united and working together harmoniously. By the CnAIRMAN: Question. So far as this secret organization is concerned, the purpose of this committee is not merely to ascertain who are members of it for the purpose of prosecuting them for crime, but to ascertain whether it continues to exist, and who are responsible for the present commission of crimes of this charater, wherever they occur in the Southern States. Answer. I am satisfied, from my knowledge of the affair, that no such organization does exist; that it was broken up in [1868, and never has existed since that time as an organization. Question. Do you mean that to apply to all the late insurrectionary States? Answer. I mean that to apply to this organization of the Ku-Klux Klan. Qttestion. In Tennessee? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And Alabama and Mississippi, North Carolina and South Carolina? Answer. So far as I know; that was the understanding, that it was to be broken up wherever it existed, and to be no longer countenanced. Question. Can you say that other men who were in the organization, and who felt differently from you, have not kept it alive for political purposes? Answer. I do not think it has been done as an organization; I think all this that has been done in the course of eighteen months has been done by parties who 4re not responsible to anybody. Question. Were those who were in the org anization, which you say you believe has been disbanded, principally men who had been soldiers in the confederate army? Answer. I think they were. Question. Almost entirely? Answer. Yes, sir. By Mr. STEVENSON: Question. You say they were men of character and position? Answer. Well, they were men who it was thought would behave themselves, and act friendly, and do discreetly. Question. Not rash, wild men? Answer. No, sir. The object of the organization was to keep out everything of that sort, and to prevent difficulty as far as it could. Question. So far as you know, it was composed of the best class of southern citizens? Answer. I do not know whether you might term them the best class or not. Question. Let us have your understanding of it; were they men of substance and property? Aneswer. My understanding is that those men who were in the organization were young men mostly; men who had been in the southern army, and men who could be relied upon in case of a difficulty-of an attack from the negroes-who could be relied upon to defend the women and children of the country. Question. Were they men of sufficient substance and means to go about from one place to another? Answer. Well, they were in the habit, about the close of the war, of going almost everywhere and anywhere without much assistance. We traveled about very freely sometimes during the war; this was immediately after the war. Question. Let me understand; suppose that, when the organization was in full working order, a conflict should have occurred, for instance, at Memphis, between the whites and blacks. The blacks outnumbered you there, did they not?:Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And in all that river valley?

Page  31 MISCELLANEOUS. 31 Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Suppose a conflict had occurred there, was the organization composed of such men that they could have come from other parts to assist the whites in that region? Answer. In a case like that they would have come, from the fact that they would have gathered up everything available in the way of transportation. Question. From where would they have come? Answer. From the country wherever they heard of it. Question. As many as were needed? Answer. Yes, sir. I will mention one case that occurred in 1868. At Crawfordsville, on the Mobile and Ohio Railroad, the citizens and negroes had a difficulty, and the negroes threatened to burn the town. It was telegraphed up to West Point, forty miles above there, and to Columbus also. I was then on my way to Memphis. When I got to the Mobile road I found these men had got all the trains they could and started down, and I went with them. The negroes were about eight hundred strong, and were out at the edge of the town; the people of the town had fortified themselves; the negroes had burned one house. When I got there I got the white people together, organized them, and made speeches to them. I told them to be quiet, and we would see if this could be settled. I then got on a horse and rode aver to the negroes and made a speech to them. The negroes dispersed and went home, and nothing was done; there was nobody hurt, nobody molested. But they were just on the point where it was liable that fifty or five hundred men would be killed. Those negroes had fallen out with a young man who was going down the road; his horse had got scared when they came along, had kicked out a little, and run against their trumpeter and knocked him down. They followed him into town to beat him, and then they gathered together. I am satisfied I prevented bloodshed there by getting those men together and talking to them, and by talking to the negroes and getting them to go home. Question. What do you suppose would have happened if you had not taken the course you did? Answer. There would have been a general fight. Question. Suppose the negroes had succeeded and whipped the whites? Answer. The whites would have called in more help. You would have gone I reckon, if you had been there. I do not suppose there is a white man that would not take sides against the blacks, and with his own race. Question. Men at a great distance would not know which side was to blame, would they? Answer. But in the case of a fight like thatBy Mr. VAN TRUMPr: Question. In the event of a war of races down there, do you not think the excitement would reach North? Answer. I think it would. I think we would find a great many people up here who would go down there and help us if we had the worst of it. By Mr. STEVENSON: Question. Might they not stop to inquire who was right and who was wrong? Answer. I think they might. Question. Those people did not, in that case? Answer. They had not done anything we were going there to protect the people. They did not fire a gun. Question. Had they organized? Answer. Both had organized; the negroes had organized, and the white people had organized. They went there with their arms, but they went'there after these people at Crawfordsville had telegraphed that they were about to be attacked by an overwhelming force of armed negroes. Question. You say you think the people North would join with you in such a war as that Answer. I did not say that. Question. Do you or not think that the people of the North would join in it? Answer. I do not know whether they would or not; but I think their sympathies would be with their own people. Question. Suppose the whites of the South were getting the worst of it t Answer. I think if the people of the North have the same feelings that the people of the South have, they would assist them. That is all owing to what is the feeling here; whether they have the same sympathy with the white people, one with another, that they do in the Southern States. Question. You think they have? Answer. I have no reason to believe that they have not. Question. What is your belief as to whether any of these orders extended into the Northern States; those " Pale Faces," or anything of that sort?

Page  32 32 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Answer. I never knew anything of that sort. I understood you had similar orders here in the North; that is, you had the Grand Army of the Republic and other organizations here similar to that. Question. Similar to such as you had down there? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. From whom did you understand that? Answer. From rumor; nothing else. Question. Did you get any letters from the North in your correspondence? ~ Answer. I got letters from northern citizens urging me to try and keep things quiet, and let it work itself off. Question. All seemed to look to you? Answer. No, sir; not particularly so. I suppose they looked to other men as well as to me. Question. Did you ever hear of anybody else having such correspondence? Answer. I understood that a great many of our southern men corresponded with their friends in the North, and that was the advice of the northern people generally, to try and keep this thing down. Question. I did not understand you to say whether you would send us those names by mail or not. Answer. I did not say whether I would or not. By the CHAIRMA: Question. Did you say you got advice from northern people in 1868 to have the KuKlux society suppressed? Answer. No, not the Ku-Klux; I do not want to be understood that way. I got letters from persons in the Northern States whom I knew, giving it as their opinion that we should try and restrain everybody there from difficulty and violence, to let this thing blow over, work itself off in that way. [See page 6.] (Special correspondence, Cincinnati Commercial.) MEMPHIS, TENN., August 28, 1868. To-day I have enjoyed " big talks" enough to have gratified any of the famous Indian chiefs who have been treating with General Sherman for the past two years. First I met General N. B. Forrest, then General Gideon A. Pillow, and Governor Isham G. Harris. My first visit was to General Forrest, whom I found at his office, at 8 o'clock this morning, hard at work, although complaining of an illness contracted at the New York convention. The New Yorkers must be a bad set indeed, for I have not met a single delegate from the Southern States who has not been ill ever since he went there. But to General Forrest. Now that the southern people have elevated him to the position of their great leader and oracle, it may not be amiss to preface my conversation with him with a brief sketch of the gentleman. I cannot better personally describe him than by borrowing the language of one of his biographers. "In person he is six feet one inch and a half in height, with broad shoulders, a full chest, and symmetrical, muscular limbs; erect in carriage, and weighs one hundred and eighty-five pounds; dark-gray eyes, dark hair, mustache, and beard worn upon the chin; a set of regular white teeth, and clearly cut features;" which, altogether, make him rather a handsome man for one forty-seven years of age. Previous to the war —i 1852-he left the business of planter, and came to this city and engaged in the business of "negro-trader," in which traffic he seems to have been quite successful, for, by 1861, he had become the owner of two plantations a few miles below here, in Mississippi, on which he produced about a thousand bales of cotton each year, in the mean time carrying on the negro-trading. In June, 1861, he was authorized by Governor Harris to recruit a regiment of cavalry for the war, which he did, and which was the nucleus around which he gathered the army which he commanded as a lieutenant general at the end of the war. After being seated in his office, I said: "General Forrest, I came especially to learn your views in regard to the condition of your civil and political affairs in the State of Tennessee, and the South generally. I desire them for publication in the Cincinnati Commercial. I do not wish to misinterpret you in the slightest degree, and therefore only ask for such views as you are willing I should publish."' I have not now," he replied, "and never have had, any opinion on any public or political subject which I would object to having published. I mean what I say, honestly iand earnestly, and only object to being misrepresented. I dislike to be placed before tthe country in a false position, especially as I have not sought the reputation which I have gained."

Page  33 MISCELLANEOUS. 33 I replied: " Sir, I will publish only what you say, and then you cannot possibly be misrepresented. Our people desire to know your feelings toward the General Government, the State government of Tennessee, the radical party, both in and out of the State, and upon the question of negro suffrage." " Well, sir," said he, " when I surrendered my seven thousand men in 1865, I accepted a parole honestly, and have observed it faithfully up to to-day. I have counseled peace in all the speeches I have made. I have advised my people to submit to the laws of the State, oppressive as they are, and unconstitutional as I believe them to be. I was paroled and not pardoned until the issuance of the last proclamation of general amnesty; and, therefore, did not think it prudent for me to take any active part until the oppression of my people became so great that they could not endure it, and then I would be with them. My fiiends thought differently, and sent me to New York, and I am glad I went there." " Then, I suppose, general, that you think the oppression has become so great that your people should not longer bear it." " No," he answered, " it is growing worse hourly, yet I have said to the people,' Stand fast, let us try to right the wrong by legislation.' A few weeks ago I was called to Nashville to counsel with other gentlemen who had been prominently identified with the cause of the confederacy, and we then offered pledges which we thought would be satisfactory to Mr. Brownlow and his legislature, and we told them that, if they would not call out the militia, we would agree to preserve order and see that the laws were enforced. The legislative committee certainly led me to believe that our proposition would be accepted and no militia organized. Believing this, I came home, and advised all of my people to remain peaceful, and to offer no resistance to any reasonable law. It is true that I never have recognized the present government in Tennessee as having any legal existence, yet I was willing to submit to it for a time, with the hope that the wrongs might be righted peaceably." "What are your feelings toward the Federal Government, general?" " I loved the old Government in 1861; I love the old Constitution yet. I think it the best government in the world if administered as it was before the war. I do not hate it; I am opposing now only the radical revolutionists who are trying to destroy it. I believe that party to be composed, as I know it is in Tennessee, of the worst men on God's earth-men who would hesitate at no crime, and who have only one object in view, to enrich themselves." " In the event of Governor Brownlow's calling out the militia, do you think there will be any resistance offered to their acts?" I asked. " That will depend upon circumstances. If the militia are simply called out, and do not interfere with or molest any one, I do not think there will be any fight. If, on the contrary, they do what I believe they will do, commit outrages, or even one outrage, upon the people, they and Mr. Brownlow's government will be swept out of existence; not a radical will be left alive. If the militia are called out, we cannot but look upon it as a declaration of war, because Mr. Brownlow has already issued his proclamation directing them to shoot down the Ku-Klux wherever they find them; and he calls all southern men Ku-Klux." ": Why, general, we people up north have regarded the Ku-Klux Klan as an organization which existed only in the frightened imaginations of a few politicians? " Well, sir, there is such an organization, not only in Tennessee but all over the South, and its numbers have not been exaggerated." "What are its numbers, general?" "In Tennessee there are over forty thousan d; in all the Southern States about five hundred and fifty thousand men." "What is the character of the organization, may I inquire? " Yes, sir. It is a protective, political, military organization. I am willing to show any man the constitution of the society. The members are sworn to recognize the Government of the United States. It does not say anything at all about the government of the State of Tennessee. Its objects originally were protection against Loyal Leagues and the Grand Army of the Republic; but after it became general it was found that political matters and interests could best be promoted within it, and it was then made a political organization, giving its support, of course, to the democratic party." "But is the organization connected throughout the State?" "Yes; it is. In each voting precinct there is a captain, who, in addition to his other duties, is required to make out a list of names of men in his precinct, giving all the radicals and all the democrats who are positively known, and showing also the doubtfull on both sides and of both. colors. This list of names is forwarded to the grand commander of the State, who is thus enabled to know who are our friends and who are not." "Can you, or are you at liberty, to give me the name of the commanding officer of this State?" "No; it would be impolitic." 3B

Page  34 34 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. "Then I suppose that there can be no doubt of a conflict if the militia interfere iith the people; is that your view?" "Yes, sir; if they attempt to carry out Governor Brownlow's proclamation, by shooting down Ku-Klux —for he calls all southern men Ku-Klux-if they go to hunting down and shooting these men, there will be war, and a bloodier one than we have ever witnessed. I have told these radicals here what they might expect in such an event. I have no.powder to burn killing negroes. I intend to kill the radicals. I have told them this and more. There is not a radical leader in this town but is a marked man; and if a trouble should break out, not one of them would be left alive. I have told them that they were trying to create a disturbance and then slip out and leave the consequences to fall upon the negro; but they can't do it. Their houses are picketed, and when the fight comes not one of them would ever get out of this town alive. We don't intend they shall ever get out of the country. But I want it distinctly understood that I am opposed to any war, and will only fight in selfdefense. If the militia attack us, we will resist to the last; and, if necessary, I think I could raise 40,000 men in five days ready for. the field." "Do you think, general, that the Ku-Klux have been of any benefit to the State? " "No doubt of it. Since its organization the leagues have quit killing and murdering our people. There were some foolish young men who put masks on their faces and rode over the country frightening negroes; but orders have been issued to stop that, and it has ceased. You may say further that three members of the Ku-Klux have been court-martialed and shot for violations of the orders not to disturb or molest people." "Are you a member of the Ku-Klux, general? " " I am not; but am in sympathy and will cooperate with them. I know they are charged with many crimes that they are not guilty of. A case in point is the killing of Bierfield at Franklin, a few days ago. I sent a man up there especially to investigate the case, and report to me, and I have his letter here now, in which he states that they had nothing to do with it as an organization." "What do you think of negro suffrage?" "I am opposed to it under any and all circumstances, and in our convention urged our party not to commit themselves at all upon the subject. If the negroes vote to enfranchise us, I do not think I would favor their disfranchisement. We will stand by those who help us. Andt'here I want you to understand distinctly I am not an enemy to the negro. We want him here among us; he is the only laboring class we have; and, more than that, I would sooner trust him than the white scalawag or carpet-bagger. When I entered the armyf I took forty-seven negroes into the army with me, and forty-five of them were surrendered with me. I said to them Ift the start:'This fight is against slavery; if we lose it, you will be made free; if we whip the fight, and you stay with me and be good boys, I will set you free; in either case you will be free.' These boys staid with me, drove my teams, and better confederates did not live." "Do you think the Ku-Klux will try to intimidate the negroes at the election " "' I do not think they will. Why, I made a speech at Brownsville the other day, and while there a lieutenant who served with me came to me and informed me that a band of radicals had been going through the country claiming to be Ku-Klux, and disarming the negroes, and then selling their arms. I told him to have the matter investigated, and, if true, to have the parties arrested." "What do you think is the effect of the amnesty granted to your people?" "I believe that the amnesty restored all the rights to the people, full and complete. I do not think the Federal Government has the right to disfranchise any man, but I believe that the legislatures of the States have. The objection I have to the disfranchisement in Tennessee is, that the legislature which enacted the law had no constitutional existence,yand the law in itself is a nullity. Still I would respect it until changed by law. But there is a limit beyond which men cannot be driven, and I am ready to die sooner than sacrifice my honor. This thing must have an end, and it is now about time for that end to come." " What do you think of General Grant?" I asked. "I regard him as a great military commander, a good man, honest and liberal, and if elected will, I hope and believe, execute the laws honestly and faithfully. And by the way, a report has been published in some of the newspapers, stating that while General Grant and lady were at Corinth, in 1862, they took and carried off furniture and other property. I here brand the author as a liar. I was at Corinth only a short time ago, and I personally investigated the whole matter, talked with the people with whom he and his lady lived while there, and they say that their conduct was everything that could have been expected of a gentleman and lady, and deserving the highest praise. I am opposed to General Grant in everything, but I would do him justice." The foregoing is the principal part of my conversation with the general. I give the conversation, and leave the reader to form his own opinion as to what General Forrest means to do. I think he has been so plain in his talk that it cannot be misunderstood.

Page  35 MISCELLANEOUS. 35 MEMPHIS, September 3, 1868. DEAR SIR: I have just read your letter in the Commercial, giving a report of our conversation on Friday last. I do not think you would intentionally misrepresent me, but you have done so, and, I suppose, because you mistook my meaning. The portions of your letter to which I object are corrected in the following paragraphs: I promise the legislature my personal influence and aid in maintaining order and enforcing the laws. I have never advised the people to resist any law, but to submit to the laws, until they can be corrected by lawful legislation. -I said the militia bill would occasion no trouble, unless they violated the law by carrying out the governor's proclamation, which I believe to be unconstitutional and in violence of law, in shooting men down without trial, as recommended by that proclamation. I said it was reported, and I believed the report, that there are forty thousand KuKlux in Tennessee; and I believe the organization stronger in other States. I meant to imply, when I said that the Ku-Klux recognize the Federal Government, that they would obey all State laws. They recognize all laws, and will obey them, so I have been informed, in protecting peaceable citizens from oppression from any quarter. I did not say that any man's house was picketed. I did not mean to convey the idea that I would raise any troops; and, more than that, no man could do it in five days, even if they were organized. I said that General Grant was at Holly Springs, and not at Corinth; I said the charge against him was false, but did not use the word " liar." I cannot consent to remain silent in this matter; for, if I did so, under an incorrect impression of my personal views, I might be looked upon as one desiring a conflict, when, in truth, I am so adverse to anything of the kind that I will make any honorable sacrifice to avoid it. Hoping that I may have this explanation placed before your readers, I remain, very respectfully, N. B. FORREST. [See page 28.] Damnant quod non intelligunt. PRESCRIPT OF THE * What may this mean, That thou, dead corse, again, in complete steel, Revisit'st thus the glimpses of the moon, Making night hideous, and we fools of nature So horribly to shake our disposition With thoughts beyond the reaches of our souls? An' now auld Cloots, I ken ye're thinkin' A certain Ghoul is rantin', drinkin'; Some luckless wight will send him linkin' To your black pit; But, faith! he'll turn a corner jinkin', An' cheat you yet Amici humani generis. CREED. We, the *',reverently acknowledge the majesty and supremacy of the Divine Being, and recognize the goodness and providence of the same. PREAMBLE. We recognize our relations to the United States Government, and acknowledge the supremacy of its laws. APPELLATION. ARTICLE I. This organization shall be styled and denominated the TITLES. ART. II. The officers of this * shall consist of a Grand Wizard of the Empire and his ten Genii; a Grand Dragon of the Realm and his eight Hydras; a Grand Titan of the Dominion and his six Furies; a Grand Giant of the Province and his four Goblins: a

Page  36 36 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Grand Cyclops of the Den and his two Night Hawks; a Grand Magi, a Grand Monk, a Grand Exchequer, a Grand Turk, a Grand Scribe, a Grand Sentinel, and a Grand Ensign. SEc. 2. The body-politic of this * shall be designated and known as " Ghouls." DIVISIONS. ART. III. This * shall be divided into five departments, all combined constituting the Grand' of the Empire; the second department to be called the Grand * of the Realm; the third, the Grand * of the Dominion; the fourth, the Grand * of the Province; the fifth, the I of the Den. Magna est veritas, et praevalebit. Nec acire fas est omnia. DUTIES OF OFFICERS. Grand Wizard. ART. IV, SEC. 1. It shall be the duty of the Grand Wizard, who is the supreme officer of the empire, to communicate with and receive reports from the Grand Dragons of Realms as to the condition, strength, efficiency, and progress of the *s within their respective realms; and he shall communicate from time to time to all subordinate *s, through the Grand Dragons, the condition, strength, efficiency, and progress of the *s, throughout his vast empire, and such other information as he may deem expedient to impart. And it shall further be his duty to keep by his G. Scribe a list of the names (without any caption or explanation whatever) of the Grand Dragons of the different realms of his empire, and shall number such realms with the Arabic numerals, 1, 2, 3, &c., ad finem. And he shall instruct his Grand Exchequer as to the appropriation and disbursement which he shall make of the revenue of the * that comes to his hands. He shall have the sole power to issue copies of this prescript, through his subalterns and deputies, for the organization and establishment of subordinate *s. And he shall have the further power to appoint his Genii, also a Grand Scribe and a Grand Excheqlbr for his department, and to appoint and ordain Special Deputy Grand Wizards to assist him in the more rapid and effectual dissemination and establishment of the * throughout his empire. He is further empowered to appoint and instruct deputies to organize and control realms, dominions, provinces, and dens, until the same shall elect a Grand Dragon, a Grand Titan, a' Grand Giant, and a Grand Cyclops, in the manner hereinafter provided. Ne vile fano. Ars est celare artem. And when a question. of paramount importance to the interest or prosperity of the * arises not provided for in this prescript, he shall have power to determine such question, and his decision shall be final until the same shall be provided for by amendment, as hereinafter provided. Grand Dragon. SEc. 2. It shall be the duty of the Grand Dragon, who is the chief officer of the realm, to report to the Grand Wizard, when required by that officer, the condition, strength, efficiency, and progress of the * within his realm, and to transmit through the Grand Titan to the subordinate *s of his realm, all information or intelligence conveyed to him by the Grand Wizard for that purpose, and all such other information or instruction as he may think will promote the interests of the *. He shall keep by his G. Scribe a list of the names (without any caption) of the Grand Titans of the different dominions of his realm, and shall report the same to the Grand Wizard when required; and shall number the dominions of his realm with the Arabic numerals, 1, 2, 3, &c., adfinem. He shall instruct his Grand Exchequer as to the ippropriation and disbursement of the revenue of the' that comes to his hands. He shall have the power to appoint his Hydras; also, a Grand Scribe and a Grand Exchequer for his department, and to appoint and ordain Special Deputy Grand Dragons to assist him in the more rapid and effectual dissemination and establishment of the * throughout his realm. He is further empowered to appoint and instruct deputies to organize and control dominions, provinces, and dens, until the same shall elect a Grand Titan, a Grand Giant, and Grand Cyclops in the manner hereinafter provided. Nusquam-tuta fides. Quid faciendum?

Page  37 MISCELLANEOUS. 37 Grand Titan. SEC. 3. It shall be the duty of the Grand Titan, who is the chief officer of the dominion, to report to the Grand Dragon, when required by that officer, the condition, strength, efficiency, and progress of the * within his dominion, and to transmit through the Grand Giants to the subordinate's of his dominion, all information or intelligence conveyed to him by the Grand Dragon for that purpose, and all such other inforrmation or instruction as he may think will enhance the interests of the i. He shall keep, by his G. Scribe, a list of the names (without caption) of the Grand Giants of the different provinces of his dominion, and shall report the same to the Grand Dragon when required; and he shall number the provinces of his dominion with the Arabic numerals, 1, 2, 3, &c., adfinem. And he shall instruct and direct his Grand Exchequer as to the appropriation and disbursement of the revenue of the * that comes to his hands. He shall have power to appoint his Furies; also to appoint a Grand Scribe and a Grand Exchequer of his department, and appoint and ordain Special Deputy Grand Titans to assist him in the more rapid and effectual dissemination and establishment of the * throughout his dominion. He shall have further power to appoint and instruct deputies to organize and control provinces and dens until the same shall elect a Grand Giant and a Grand Cyclops, in the manner hereinafter provided. Grand Giant. SEC. 4. It shall be the duty of the Grand Giant, who is the chief officer of the province, to supervise and administer general and special instruction in the formation and establishment of *s within his province, and to report to the Grand Titan, when required by that officer, the condition, strength, progress, and efficiency of the i throughFide non armis. Fiat justitia. out his province, and to transmit through the Grand Cyclops to the subordinate *s of his province, all information or intelligence conveyed to him by the Grand Titan for that purpose and such other information and instruction as he may think will advance the interest of the *. He shall keep, by his G. Scribe, a list of the names (without caption) of the Grand Cyclops of the various dens of his province, and shall report the same to the Grand Titan when required, and shall number the dens of his province with the Arabic numerals, 1, 2, 3, &c., ad finem; and shall determine and limit the number of dens to be organized in his province; and he shall instruct the Grand Exchequer as to what appropriation and disbursement he shall make of the revenue of the * that comes to his hands. He shall have power to appoint his Goblins; also, a Grand Scribe and a Grand Exchequer for his department, and to appoint and ordain Special Deputy Grand Giants to assist him in the more rapid and effectual dissemination and establishment of the * throughout his province. He shall have the further power to appoint and instruct deputies to organize and control dens until the same shall elect a Grand Cyclops, in the manner hereinafter provided. And in all cases he shall preside at and conduct the Grand Council of Yahoos. Grand Cyclops. SEc. 5. It shall be the duty of the Grand Cyclops to take charge of the * of his den after his election, under the direction and with the assistance (when practicable) of the Grand Giant, and in accordance with, and in conformity to, the provisions of this pre-cript, a copy of which shall in all cases be obtained before the formation of a * begins. Hic manent vestigia, morientis libertatis. Curae leves loquuntur, ingentes stupent. It shall further be his duty to appoint all regular meetings of his *, and to preside at the same; to appoint irregular meetings when he deems it expedient; to preserve order in his den, and to impose fines for irregularities or disobedience of orders, and to receive and initiate candidates for admission into the ", after the same shall have been pronounced competent and worthy to become members by the investigating committee. He shall make a quarterly report to the Grand Giant of the condition, strength, and efficiency of the * of his den, and shall convey to the Ghouls of his den allinformation or intelligence conveyed to him by the Grand Giant for that purpose, and all such other information or instruction as he may think will conduce to the interests and welfare of the *. He shall preside at and conduct the Grand Council of Centaurs. He shall have power to appoint his Night Hawks, his Grand Scribe, his Grand Turk, his Grand Sentinel, and his Grand Ensign. And he shall instruct and direct the Grand Exchequer of his den

Page  38 38 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES as to whoci appropriation and disbursement he shall make of the revenue of the * that comes to his hands. And for any small offense he may punish any member by fine, and may reprimand him for the same. And he may admonish and reprimand the * of his den for any imprudence, irregularity, or transgression, when he is convinced or advised that the interests, welfare, and safety of the * demand it. Dat Dens his quoque finem. Cessante causa, cessat effectus. Grand Mlagi. SEC. 6. It shall be the duty of the Grand Magi, who is the second officer in authority of the den, to assist the Grand Cyclops, and to obey all the proper orders of that officer; to preside at all meetings in the den in the absence of the Grand Cyclops; and to exercise during his absence all the powers and authority conferred upon that officer. Grand Monk. SEC. 7. It shall be the duty of the Grand Monk, who is the third officer in authority of the den, to assist and obey all the proper orders of the Grand Cyclops and the Grand Mlagi. And in the absence of these officers, he shall preside at and conduct the meetings in the den, and shall exercise all the powers and authority of the Grand Cyclops. Grand Exchequer. SEC. 8. It shall be the duty of the Grand Exchequers of the different departments of the * to keep a correct account of all the revenue of the * that shall come to their hands, and shall make no appropriation or disbursement of the same except under the orders and direction of the chief officer of their respective departments. And it shall further be the duty of the Grand Exchequer of the dens to collect the initiation fees and all fines imposed by the Grand Cyclops. Grand Turk. SEC. 9. It shall be the duty of the Grand Turk, who is the executive officer of the Grand Cyclops, to notify the Ghouls of the den of all informal or irregular meetings appointed by the Grand Cyclops, and to obey and'execute all the lawful orders of that Droit et avant. Cave quid dicis, quando, et cui. officer in the control and government in his den. It shall further be his.duty to receive and question at the outposts all candidates for admission into the *, and shall there administer the preliminary obligation required, and then conduct such candidate or candidates to the Grand Cyclops at his den, and to assist him in the initiation of the same; and it shall further be his duty to act as the executive officer of the Grand Council of Centaurs. Grand Scribe. SEC. 10. It shall be the duty of the Grand Scribes of the different departments to conduct the correspondence, and to write the orders of the chiefs of their departments when required. And it shall further be the duty of the Grand Scribes of the den to keep a list of the names (without caption) of the Ghouls of the den, to call the roll at all regular meetings, and to make the quarterly report under the direction of the Grand Cyclops. Grand Sentinel. SEC. 11. It shall be the duty of the Grand Sentinel to detail, take charge of, post and instruct the grand guard, under the direction and orders of the Grand Cyclops, and to relieve and dismiss the same when directed by that officer. Grand Ensign. SEC. 12. It shall be the duty of the Grand Ensign to take charge of the grand banner of the', to preserve it sacredly, and protect it carefully, and to bear it on all occasions of parade or ceremony, and on such other occasions as the Grand Cyclops may direct it to be flung to the night-breeze.

Page  39 MISCELLANEOUS. 39 ELECTION OF OFFICERS. ART. V, SEC. 1. The Grand Cyclops, the Grand Magi, the Grat. Monk, and the Grand Dormitur aliquando jus, moritur numquam. Deo adjuvante, non timendum. Exchequer of Dens shall be elected semi-annually by the Ghouls of Dens. Ana the first election of these officers may take place as soon as seven Ghouls have been initiated for that purpose. SEC. 2. The Grand Wizard of the Empire, the Grand Dragons of Realms, the Grand Titans of Dominions, and the Grand Giants of Provinces shall be elected biennially, and in the following manner, to wit: The Grand Wizard by a majority vote of the Grand Dragons of his empire; the Grand Dragon by a like vote of the Grand Titans of his realm; the Grand Titan by a like vote of the Grand Giants of his dominion; and the Grand Giant by a like vote of the Grand Cyclops of his province. The Arst election for Grand Dragon may take place as soon as three doninions have been organized in a realm; but all subsequent elections shall be by a majority vote of the Grand Titans throughout the realm, and biennially as aforesaid. The first election for Grand Titan may take place as soon as three provinces have been organized in a dominion, but all subsequent elections shall be by a majority vote of all the Grand Giants throughout the dominion, and biennially as aforesaid. The first election for Grand Giant may take place as soon as three dens have been organized in a province, but all subsequent elections shall be by a majority vote of the Grand Cyclops throughout the province, and biennially as aforesaid. The Grand Wizard of the Empire is hereby created, to serve three years from the first Monday in May, 1867; after the expiration of which time biennial elections shall be held for that office as aforesaid, and the incumbent Grand Wizard shall notify the Spectemur agendo. Grand Dragons, at least six months before said election, at what time and place the same will be held. JUDICIARY. ART VI, SEC. 1. The tribunal of justice of this * shall consist of a Grand Council of Yahoos, and a Grand Council of Centaurs. SEC. 2. The Grand Council of Yahoos shall be the tribunal for the trial of elected officers, and shall be composed of officers of equal rank with the accused, and shall be appointed and presided over by an officer of the next rank above, and sworn by him to administer even-handed justice. The tribunal for the trial of the Grand Wizard shall be composed of all the Grand Dragons of the Empire, and shall be presided over and sworn by the Senior Grand Dragon. They shall have power to summon the accused, and witnesses for and against him; and if found guilty they shall prescribe the penalty and execute the same. And they shall have power to appoint an executive officer to attend said council while in session. Nemo nos impune lacessit. SEC. 3. The Grand Council of Centaurs shall be the tribunal for the trial of Ghouls and non-elective officers, and shall be composed of six judges appointed by the Grand Cyclops from the Ghouls of his den, presided over and sworn by him to give the accused a fair and impartial trial. They shall have power to summon the accused, and witnesses for and against him; and if found guilty they shall prescribe the penalty and execute the same. Said judges shall be selected by the Grand Cyclops with referPatra cara, carior libertas. ence to their intelligence, integrity, and fairmindedness, and shall render their verdict without prejudice or partiality. REVENUE. ART. VII, SEC. 1. The revenue of this * shall be derived as follows: For every copy of this prescript issued to the *s of dens, ten dollars will be required; two dollars of which shall go into the hands of the Grand Exchequer of the Grand Giant; two into the hands of the Grand Exchequer of the Grand Titan; two into the hands of the Grand Exchequer of the Grand Dragon, and the remaining four'ito the hands of the Grand Exchequer of the Grand Wizard.

Page  40 40 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. SEC. 2. A further source of revenue to the empire shall be ten per cent. of all the revenue of the realms, and a tax upon realms when the Grand Wizard shall deem it necessary and indispensable to levy the same. SEC. 3. A further source of revenue to the realms shall be ten per cent. of all revenue of dominions; and a tax upon dominions when the Grand Dragon shall deem such tax necessary and indispensable. SEC. 4. A further source of revenue to dominions shall be ten per cent. of all revenue of Ad anum omnes. provinces, and a tax upon provinces when the Grand Titan shall deem such tax necessary and indispensable. SEC. 5. A further source of revenue to provinces shall be ten per cent. on all the revenue of dens, and a tax upon the dens when the Grand Giant shal deem such tax necessary and indispensable. 1 SEC. 6. The source of revenue to dens shall be the initiation fees, fines, and a per capita tax, whenever the Grand Cyclops shall deem such tax indispensable to the interests and purposes of the * SEC. 7. All of the revenue obtained in the manner herein aforesaid shall be for the exclusive benefit of the *, and shall be appropriated to the dissemination of the same, and to the creation of a fund to meet any disbursement that it may become necessary to make to accomplish the objects of the *, and to secure the protection of the same. OBLIGATION. ART. VIII. No one shall be a member of this * unless he shall take the following oath or obligation: I,, of my own free will and accord, and in the presence of Almighty God, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will never reveal to any one not a member of the * *, by any intimation, sign, symbol, word, or act, or in any other manner whatever, any of the secrets, signs, grips, passwords, mysteries, or purposes of the * *, or that I am a member of the same, or that I know of any one who is a member, and that I will abide by the prescript and edicts of the * *. So help me God. SEC. 2. The preliminary obligation to be administered before the candidate for admisDeo duce, ferro comitante. sion is taken to the Grand Cyclops for examination shall be as follows: I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will never reveal anything that I may this day (or night) learn concerning the * * So help me God. ADMISSION. ART. IX, SEC. 1. No one shall be presented for admission into this order until he shall have been recommended by some friend or intimate, who is a member, to the investigating committee, which shall be composed of the Grand Cyclops, the Grand Magi, and the Grand Monk; and who shall investigate his antecedents, and his past and present standing and connections; and if, after such investigation, they pronounce him competent and worthy to become a member, he may be admitted upon taking the obligation required, and passing through the ceremonies of initiation: Provided, That no one shall be admitted into this' who shall have not attained the age of eighteen years. SEC. X. No one shall become a member of a distant X when there is a * established and in operation in his own immediate vicinity; nor shall any one become a member of any * after he shall have been rejected by another ENSIGN. ART. X. The grand banner of this * shall be in the form of an isoceles triangle, five feet long and three feet wide at the staff. The material shall be yellow, with a (Tempora mutantur, et nos mutamen in illis, ad utrumque paratus.) red scalloped border, about three inches in width. There shall be painted upon it, in black, a Draco volen.s, or Flying Dragon,t with the following motto inscribed above the Dragon: " Quod semper, quod ubique, quod ab omnibus." AMENDMENTS. ART. XI. This prescript, or any part, or edicts thereof, shall never be changed except;y a two-thirds vote of the Grand Dragons of the Realms, in convention assembled and at which convention the Grand Wizard shall preside and be entitled to a vote. t See Webster's Unabridged Pictorial. + " What always, what everywhere, what by all is held to be true."

Page  41 MISCELLANEOUS. 41 And upon the application of a majority of the Grand Dragons, for the purpose, the Granl Wizard shall appoint the time and place for said convention; which, when assembled, shall proceed to make such modification and amendment as it may think will advance the interest, enlarge the utility, and more thoroughly effect the purposes of the * INTERDICTION. ART. XII. The origin, designs, mysteries, and ritual of this * shall never be written, but the same shall be communicated orally. (O tempora!' O mores!) REGISTER. I.-1st. Dismal. 2d. Dark. 3d. Furious. 4th. Portentous. 5th. Wonderful. 6th. Alarming. 7th. Dreadful. 8th. Terrible. 9th. Horrible. 10th. Melancholy. 11th. Mournful. 12th. Dying. II.-I. White. II. Green. III. Blue. IV. Black. V. Yellow. VI. Crimson. VII. III.-l. Fearful. 2. Startling. 3. Awful.. 4. Woeful. 5. Horrid. 6. Bloody. 7. Doleful. 8. Sorrowful. 9. Hideous. 10. Frightful. 11. Appalling. 12. Lost. EDICTS. I. The initiation fee of this * shall be one dollar, to be paid when the candidate is initiated and received into the I. II. No member shall be allowed to take any intoxicating spirits to any meeting of the *, nor shall any member be allowed to attend a meeting when intoxicated; and for every appearance at E meeting in such a condition he shall be fined not less than one nor more than five dollars, to go into the revenue of the * III. Any member may be expelled from the * by a majority vote of the officers and Cavendo ttuts. Astra castra, numen lumen. Ghouls of the den to which he belongs, and if after expulsion such member shall assume any of the duties, regalia, or insignia of the *, or in any way claim to be a member of the same, he shall be severely punished. His obligation of secrecy shall be as binding upon him after expulsion as before, and for any revelation made by him thereafter he shall be held accountable in the same manner as if he were then a member. IV. Every Grand Cyclops shall read, or cause to be read, this prescript and these edicts to the is of his den at least once in every three months; and shall read thlem to each new member when he is initiated, or present the same to him for personal perusal. V. Each den may provide itself with the grand banner of the. VI. The is of dtms may make such additional edicts for their control and government as they shall deem requisite and necessary: Provided, No edict shall be made to conflict with any of the provisions or edicts of this prescript. VII. The strictest and most rigid secrecy concerning any and every thing that relates to the * shall at all times be maintained. VIII. Any member who shall reveal or betray the secrets or purposes of this * shall suffer the extreme penalty of the law. Hush, thou art not to utter what I am. Bethink thee; it was our covenant. I said that I would see thee once again. Te quid detrimenti respublica capiat. Amici neque ad aras. L'ENVOI. To the lovers of law and order, peace and justice, we send you greeting; and to the shades of the venerated dead we affectionately dedicate the t t. Nos ducit amor libertatis. A true copy from the book. WM. GALBREATH. WASHINGTON, D. C., July 15. 1871. ANDREW J. FLOWERS (colored) sworn and examined: By the CHAIRMAN, (Mr. POLAND:) Question. Where do you live? Answer. In Chattanooga, Tennessee. Question. How long have you lived there? Answer. Since July, 1865.

Page  42 42 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Question. Where did you live before July, 1865? Answer. In Georgia. Question. Were you born in Georgia? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And did you always live in Georgia until you went to Chattanooga, six years ago? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What has been your business since you lived in Chattanooga; what trade have you followed? Answer. The only trade I followed was coopering. I learned the trade of coopering there within the last two or three years. Question. And you have followed that? Answer. Up to a year or so ago. Question. Do you now hold some office? Answer. Yes, sir; I am a justice of the peace. Question. When were you chosen a justice of the peace? Answer. I was elected on the 4th of last August. Question. Are justices of the peace in Tennessee elected by a vote of the people?, Answer. Yes, sir; I was elected by a vote of the people. Question. By a vote of the city of Chattanooga? Answer. Yes, sir; the fourteenth civil district. Question. Does that include any more than the city of Chattanooga? Answer. No, sir; it does not-not for regular business. In any district in the county I can sign any papers connected with that office. Question. You are a justice of the peace for the whole county? Answer. Yes, sir; for the whole county Question. How many justices were elected at the same time as yourself? Answer. In our district three were elected at the same time. Question. Were they all colored men? Answer. No, sir; I was the only colored man; the other two were white men. Question. Since you were elected, last August, have you been performing duty as a magistrate or justice of the peace? Answer. I have. Question. How far is Chattanooga from the Georgia line? Answer. Only four and a half miles by the nearest route. Question. I want to inquire of you particularly in reference to some violence which it has been understood was committed upon ypu a short time ago. Tell us the story in reference to that. Answer. On the 17th of last month I went out from Chattanooga to Whiteside on a visit to a school which my sister was teaching. Whiteside is on the Nashville and Chattanooga Railroad, fourteen miles west from Chattanooga. I went down there on Saturday night and staid all night. My sister is teaching school there. Question. A colored school? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Is it a public or a private school? Answer. It is a private school, supported by a party of people in that district. Question. Various colored people living about in that vicinity associate together and hire your sister to teach their children? Answer. That is it, sir. Question. You went down on Saturday night and staid over Sunday? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. State all that took place. Answer. On Sunday night, between 11 and 12, or 10 and 11 o'clock, I cannot say exactly which, (I had been over to the mountain that day, visiting the coal mines, and was very tired, and slept very*sound,) I woke up, and there was a crowd of men, all with masks, around me, with pistols in their hands. They waked me up. They called me by my name; they took me out near a mile from the house. Question. Tell all that they said. Answer. They took me out about a mile from the house, talking all the time they were going along. Question. What did they say to you at the house? Answer. They asked me what was my name. I told them.'Then some of them said, "0, yes; you are the man we are looking for," and so forth. One of them told me they were going to kill me. He said, " I am going to give you five of these balls." He had a pistol in his hand. After they got me out of doors, the captain of the organization (they called him " captain ") told me that he was going to whip me; he said he would give me twenty-five lashes; that I had had the impudence to run against a white man for office, and beat him; that they were not going to allow it; that it was an organization organized by them to stop negroes holding office, and to put out of office those that had office; that if they did no t get out of office by being told or notified

Page  43 MISCELLANEOUS. 43 or whipped, they were going to kill them. They took me up about a mile from the house, I reckon, and hit me as much as twenty-five times. Question. Did they take you into a woods or swamp? Answer. They took me through the woods into an old field, down near a swamp. I had never been there before. They took off my coat, and whipped me with hickories seven or eight feet long; they said they were going to give me twenty-five lashes, and I guess they gave it to me. They told me that if I would promise to resign my office when I went to Chattanooga next Inorning, they would turn me loose; and I very readily promised it. Question. They required you to promise to resign your office? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. At the time they came into your house, were you in bed and undressed? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Did they allow you to dress yourself? Answer. Yes, sir; they told me to put on my clothes. Question. And when they got down to the field they made you take off your coat? Answer. Yes, sir; my coat and vest; and one of the men held them till they got through. Question. They did not require you to take off any of the rest of your clothing? Answer. No, sir. Question. How many of the men whipped you? Answer. There were three of them whipped me separately. Question. Did they strike severely? Answer. Yes, sir; they struck as hard as they could strike; I don't think they could have struck harder. They made me get on my knees, and by that means the point of the hickories struck the ground, so that they did not cut my skin any. Question. You think that the length of the hickories prevented the blows from being as severe as they otherwise would have been? Answer. Yes, sir; I am certain of it. Question. They whipped you until you promised to resign your office? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And when they got from you the promise that you would resign your office, did they then cease beating you? Answer. I promised them that before they struck a lick; they required me to, and I did it. Question. State as much of the conversation as you can remember-all that they said from the time they came until they let you go. Answer. When they were taking me out of the door, they said they had nothing particular against me; that they didn't dispute I was a very good fellow, and they never heard anything wrong of me; but they did not intend any nigger to hold office in the United States; that they were going to stop it, and were going to whip me to show me that I was not to have the impudence to run' against any white man in an election, as I had done; and that I might notify a couple of other colored men that wo have in our city-members of the city board-that they were going to get them. They said further that any white man who had anything to do with my election-going my bond or anything of that sort-if they got hold of him they would treat him just as they did me. Question. Did they say anything about colored people voting? Answer. No, sir; they did not say anything about colored people voting-not to me. They said they did not object to the people having the school, but that the association of colored people had to stop meeting so often; that if they kept meeting there like they were doing, they would form a sort of a league after a while, and be for trying to stop them, and they were going to stop that. Question. They said they intended to stop this association that had this school? Answer. Yes, sir; and that they had understood I came out there to regulate the schools; that if the people out there wanted schools they had to regulate them themselves; that no nigger justices from Chattanooga should regulate schools for that part of the country. Question. Did your visit have anything to do with the schools? Answer. Not a thing. Question. You went merely to visit your sister? Answer. That is all I went there for. Question. This association of colored men who have this school, is it an association for any other purpose than to maintain a school for their children? Answer. No, sir; I am confident that they are not. They only meet when they want to get a teacher, or want to make up money to pay the teacher. Question. They only meet when they want to attend to some business in connection with the schools? Answer. That is all the time they meet. Question. They have no league or society for any other purpose, so far as you know? Answer. I do not think they have.

Page  44 44 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Question. At whose house were you stopping when you were making this visit; Answer. I was at the house of Birch Overby, a colored man. Question. Is that where your sister boards? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Did those men take out anybody else besides yourself? Answer. They took out a young man that formerly lived there; but he got out of a situation there and came to Chattanooga and works there. He goes home every Saturday night. Question. He had gone to stay at home over Sunday? Answer. Yes, sir; he always goes to stay at home on Sundays, and he keeps his clothes there mostly. They took him out, but did not whip him any. There were three other men in the house. The owner of the house they had whipped twice before that. They told me so, and I have heard him say so. These same men told me that they had whipped him before. Question. You also heard it from him? Answer. Yes, sir; and they told me themselves that they had whipped him severely twice before. Question. Did these men say anything to you about elections? Answer. Nothing more than just about colored men running for office, and that they should not do it. Question. Did they say anything about the next presidential election? Answer. No, sir, I do not'think they did. I was pretty badly excited, and a great deal that they did say I suppose I cannot remember now. Question. Did you know any of these men?.4nswer. No, sir; not one of them. Question. How many do you think there were? Answer. Well, from how they looked I thought probably fifteen or sixteen. Question. Were they all disguised? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What sort of disguises had they on? Answer. Gowns-some red, some black, and some white. Then they had a sort of a face and cap all made together, with eye-holes and a mouth-hole. Question. The cap had something that came down over the face? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What was the shape of the cap? Answer. I really could not tell you, because I was afraid to eye them too close. I could look in their faces, but was afraid to eye them too close. Question. Did they all seem to be armed? Answer. They were all armed when I saw them. When I first waked up they were pretty well all in the house, and they all had pistols in their hands, right over me. Question. You did not wake up until after they got into the house? Answer. No, sir. Question. Have you any idea as to where these men lived? Answer. My opinion is that they lived right around in that vicinity. Question. In the vicinity of where you were that night? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You do not think they were men who came from Chattanooga? Answer. I could not say; but I think a portion of them were from right around there. I think so from what they said. I know that one of them said' to the other boy, "I suppose some of you are fixing up a sort of a gang here to fight the Ku-Klux." He said, " No, I am not." Then the man said, " You do not know who you are talking to; I am the very man that got your bullet-molds and your gun that night when we were *here before." I supposed from that that they must live right around there-some of them at least. Question. Is Whiteside in the stme county as Chattanooga? Answer. No, sir, it is in the lower part of Marion County, I think. Question. This was not within your.jurisdiction as justice of the peace? Answer. No, sir. Question. Did these men say anything about colored people voting? Answer. No, sir, I don't think they did; if they did I don't remember it. Question. You say they had whipped beforethis man at whosehouse you were stopping? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. How long before? Answer. The last time I think was inside of two months. By Mr. COBURN: Question. What did they say they whipped him for? Answer. They did not say what they whipped him for. I heard him say what they whipped him for the last time, and what he thought they whipped him for the first time.

Page  45 MISCELLANEOUS. 45 By the CHAIRMAN, (Mr. POLAND:) Question. What was it? Answer. The first time they were after a man that staid down there. This colored man knew some of the men that were ku-kluxing; he could always tell pretty nearly the time they were coming and could notify the people. They were sort of watching for them. When he heard them coming he went to work and told the old man that boards at his house that he had better get out, that the Ku-Klux were coming. -They suspicioned that he did tell that, and they took him out and whipped him. Question. They suspected that he notified the old man so that he got out of the way? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What was the reason of his being whipped the second time? Answer. I think he has been a sort of a seaman; he can splice ropes-these wire ropes that they use to pull coal backward and forward on the coal-track. There was a white man, I think, that had been doing that or wanted to do it, and this colored man had taken the job. Some republican man down there gave him the job in preference to this other man. They went and whipped him for that. Question. What are those ropes used for? Answer. For9pulling coal-cars. It is a kind of wire rope. It is called a rope, but itis a big wire. Question. Somebody had given him the job of doing this work? Answer. Yes, sir; of splicing the rope when it broke. Question. Have you stated all that took place that night? Answer. Well, I think I have stated all that took place that-night as nigh as I can remember it. Question. Did they leave you down in the field, or did they go back with you to the house? Answer. They went back to the house with me, and staid there and talked for nearly an hour, I suppose. They all sat round the yard and staid there. Some wanted to take me back and whip me again. They said they had not got any blood, and they ought to have blood. They asked me where I was raised, who I had belonged to, and all such things as that. Question. Did they say anything more about your office or your resigning it? Answer. They told me very distinctly that they wanted me to understand that I must be punctual to my promise. I promised them I would. They said if I didn't do it, they would kill me the next time they caught me. Question. You went out there from Chattanooga on the cars? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. In the evening? A:nswer. Yes, sir; I think the train left at 8 o'clock in the evening. Question. Was anybody that you knew on the train? Answer. There was nobody on there, I believe, that I knew. There was one gentleman that I knew when the train started; but I don't know where he got off. Question. A Chattanooga man? Answer. Yes, sir. There were two Chattanooga men on there. There was another that I did not know at that time; but after this transaction had taken place I remembered him very well when I saw him. I saw he had a basket and valise, and he got off at Whiteside. The gentleman that my sister boarded with told me who he was, and I remembered him then. Question. He got off at Whiteside and stopped there? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Have there been other colored men whipped in the vicinity of Chattanooga? Answer. Yes, sir; there have been other colored men whipped around there. Question. How long ago did this whipping of colored men begin? Answer. I disremember exactly how long it has been; but some.time last year this thing started up around there. Question. Have there been any colored men killed by these bands of disguised men in that part of the country? Answer. Yes, sir; there was one killed last spring-since Christmas, or just before Christmas. He was killed six miles west of Chattanooga, at a place on the railroad called Wauhbatchie Station. Question. What was his name? Answer. I do not remember. He came into my place on Saturday to get a marriage license. I went to the clerk's office and went his security; but I forget his name now. Question. Was he killed that same night? Answer. Yes, sir; that or the next night. Question. Was he killed by disguised men? Answer. Yes, sir; he was taken out of the house by them. Question. How is it known he was killed? Answer. They found his body next morning.

Page  46 46 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Question. Was ho killed by shooting? Answier. He was hung up and then shot. Question. Do you know what they killed him for? Answer. No, sir; I never could find out what they had against him. Question. Did you ever hear it alleged that he had committed any crime? Answer. I heard several rumors that there was a man in that vicinity where he was that wanted to make a contract with him, or something of the sort, about some land, and they could not agree, and had some words. Question. Was that shortly before he was killed? Answer. Yes; a week or so before he was taken out. Question. Whether that had anything to do with the killing, you do not know? Answer. No, sir. The man that was killed was a son-in-law of an old man that was whipped since that time-a man by the name of Isaac Beeson. Question. Where did Isaac Beeson live? Answer. At Wauhatchie Station. After he was whipped by the Ku-Klux he came to Chattanooga, and is there yet. Question. Was that before or after his son-in-law was killed? Answer. Afterward. I do not think it is more than three or four moiths ago that he was whipped. Question. Was he taken out and whipped by a body of disguised men? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What did they whip him for? Answer. I never could find out. He did not say they had any charge against him. Question. You talked with him about it? Answer. No, sir; I never had any special talk with him about it. I heard him say this; I was standing off while he was talking. He said they told him they had been lying behind the moon for a great many nights and days, watching of him, that he was a good old nigger, and they had nothing against him, but that he was getting most too saucy and that they had better whip him a little and maybe he would obey better. That was the tale I heard him tell. Question. Did they whip him severely? Answer. They whipped him pretty bad. Question. Did you see him immediately after he was whipped? Answer. I saw him after he was whipped. Question. How old was he? Answer. He is a man betwixt fifty and sixty-probably older. He has grown children and grandchildren. Question. How long have you known him? Answer. I have heard of him a good deal. I never saw him to know him before this case happened. He has always lived in the country. Question. Have you ever heard anything against his character? Answer. I never heard anything against his character. He always had a very good character so far as I have ever heard-he and his family. Question. Do you know whether he is a man of prominence among his people? Answer. I think he is; he is an old citizen, and I think he is a leader down there amongst them. Question. Does he have anything to do about elections or about politics? Answer. Yes, sir, right smart. I have heard several men speaking of it. They would say that if it had not been for Isaac Beeson such and such a thing would not have been done, and the republicans would not have any votes. Question. You understand that he was a pretty active republican? Answer. Yes, sir, an active republican; always took an active part in elections? Question. Did you ever hear that he did anything improper, or was anything more than a zealous man on his side in politics? Answer. I never did, sir. Question. You say this old man, Isaac Beeson, removed into Chattanooga immediately after he was whipped? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What did he come to Chattanooga for? Answer. He did not consider that. he was safe out at Wauhatchie. Question. That is a thinly settled place? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You understood that he broke up out there and came to Chattanooga in order to secure his safety? Answer. Yes, sir; that is my understanding. Question. Have there been any other colored men killed in the neighborhood of Chattanooga? Answer. I do not believe there have. Question. Have there been any others whipped? Answer. Yes, sir; there have been some others whipped. One of them by the name of Joe Coulter was whippe

Page  47 MISCELLANEOUS, 47 Question. Where did he live? Answer. In Chattanooga. He was whipped there. He has been living there all the time. He lived there before the war; and he was whipped in Chattanooga. Question. In the town? Answer. Yes, sir. That was last January or February-I cannot say which. Question. What were the circumstances about his being whipped? Answer. I know the circumstances as he states them. He married a white oaman, and the Ku-Klux came after him and whipped him. Question. Had he lately been married? Answer. No, sir; he had been married a good long while-two or three years, I think. Question. Did they take him out of the house? Answer. He states that they took him out of his house and down on the bank of the river. He did not live very far from the river. Question. Did they take him away from the houses? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. To a somewhat solitary place? Answer. Yes, sir; they took him down on the bank of the river. Question. Was he severely whipped? Answer. He was severely whipped. People who heard them whipping him do not believe he got less than two hundred lashes. Question. Did you see him soon after he was whipped? Answer. Yes, sir. He told me he was severely whipped. Question. Did you see his person? Answer. No, sir. We were talking right in the street. Question. Did they tell him what they whipped him for? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What was the reason they gave? Answer. Because he had married a white woman. Question. They did not like that? Answer. No, sir. Question. Are you acquainted with him? Answer. Yes, sir; I have known him personally. Question. Is he a respectable man? Answer. I think he is a very respectable sort of a man. I never knew anything else of him. -Question. Have you ever heard him charged with having committed any offense or crime? - Answer. There is no such thing alleged against him, I think. Question. You do not understand that these men who whipped him made any complaint against him except that he had a white wife? Answer. That was all I understood. Question. You understand that he is married to this woman? Answer. He is married to her; I am pretty sure of that. That is what he states. I know a great many of them there are. Question. Can you tell any other cases where colored men have been whipped? Answer. Last Saturday night two weeks ago there were whippings over the river; they whipped a man there-on the north side from Chattanooga, over the river. Question. Chattanooga is on the south side of the river? Answer. Yes, sir. And about the time this man Coulter was whipped, this same crowd, I suppose, went there and whipped a man with a chain, and nearly killed him. I think he died. Question. Do you know his name? Answer. No, sir. Question. Was that done by a body of disguised men? Answer. Yes, sir; a body of disguised men. Question. Do you understand what they killed him for? Answer. That was for having a fuss with a white man. That is my information. Question. What was the fuss. Was there some dispute aQbout a matter of business? Answer. It was some dispute about some business; they had a little fight. I suppose, and I think he whipped the white man. Question. And these men then took him and whipped him with a chain and killed him? -4sw;er. Yes, sir. Question. State now what took place two weeks ago last Saturday night. Answer. I was informed by persons living there that these men were over there and whipped a man. I did not find out the man's name, nor what they whipped him for. Question. Did you understand that it was done by a body of men in disguise? Answer. Yes, sir; a body of men in disguise. Question. Are those all the cases you remember of whippings in that county?

Page  48 48 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Answer. Well, a white man, a republican, was whipped pretty badly the night that Joe Coulter was whipped. His name was Brubaker. Question. Did you know him? Answer. I was pretty well acquainted with him. Question. Is he a respectable man? Answer. Yes, sir; a man of very good standing; he is a carpenter, and did a good business there. Question. What did they whip him for? Answer. He and his wife had a little falling out. They went there and whipped him for that, I suppose; I do not know what else. They made him agree to go back to his wife. Question. He and his wife had separated? Answer. Yes, sir; they were living apart. They made him agree that he would go back and live with her. Question. Was he whipped? Answer. So I was informed by other persons and also by himself. Question. Have you ever seen any of these bands of disguised men except the band that took you out? Answer. No, sir, I never saw any but that. Question. You have seen none since? Answer. No, sir. Question. You have heard of these disguised bands since some time last year? Answer. I have heard of them frequently. Question. What is the general understanding in the community as to why these men are going about in this way? Answer. The general understanding out by me is that it is to intimidate the colored people and the white republicans. They always get worse about elections. In some parts of the country round where I am they are not so bad at all times; they get worse about election times. Question The election seems to inflame them? Answer. Yes, sir; they don't want men to vote the republican ticket. I have known men who said they had told them, " You vote that ticket and you will be ku-kluxed to-night." That is the way they do generally round on the mountains. Question. Men have told you that that has been said to them? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Colored men? Answer. Colored men. Question. What has been the result of the operations of these men who go about disguised? How do the colored people feel, especially those who live away from towns? Answer. Well, sir, they just feel and know that they are not in any safety. Question, Are they afraid? Answer. They are afraid. They know that when they come, if they have anything against them, or if they have not, but they have stood up to the republican party, they will kill them or whip them half to death. Question. The colored people, so far as you know, think that these bands do not feel friendly toward them if they vote the republican ticket? Answer. No, sir; they know that. Question. Do the colored people all understand that if they vote on the republican side they are in danger from these bands? Answer. They all understand it. Question. That is the general feeling? Answer. That is the feeling of the people. Question. Do you know any instances where colored people have left the country and come into town, except this case of the old man that you spoke of? Answer. Yes, sir. There is a place called the "Cove," twenty miles from Chattanooga, in Georgia, I believe, where the people come in frequently. They work and make good crops, and then they are driven off or ku-kluxed at night. I have known many cases where they would slip up in the day-time and get a load of their corn or something of that sort, and go away the same day. Question. Because they ate afraid of the Ku-Klux? Answer. Yes, sir; the Ku-Klux would run them out. I know several families who are stopping around there who hardly had a place to go to on account of the Ku-Klux. Question. Which way do the colored people generally vote? Answer. Round these little towns where they get protection they always vote republican. Question. How do the great mass of them want to vote? Answer. They all want to vote the republican ticket. That is the intention of all of them if they are not intimidated. Question. Do you think that any of them want to vote the other way? Answer. There might be some. There are always some that are bribed; but the general mass of the colored people, you may say, vote the republican ticket.

Page  49 MISCELLANEOUS. 49 Question. You think they would all vote that way if they were left free from any improper control or influence? Answer. They will all vote that way. Question. But you think, so far as their personal safety is concerned, it would be better for them to vote the other way? Answer. We are all pretty sure of that, that if we would all vote the other way we would be perfectly safe. Question. In no danger from the Ku-Klux? Answer. In no danger from the Ku-Klu:. We all know that if we would vote that ticket we would all be safe. By Mr. COBURN: Question. State the names of the witnesses of this outrage upon you. AnswUer. I was at Birch Overby's house Question. Was anybody else there at that time? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Who? Answer. My sister, Roxana Flowers, Birch Overby's wife, Albert Lee, and Mac Overby. Question. As to the outrage at Wauhatchie, did you hear who were present? Answer. I did not hear exactly. I don't know whether the man lived with his father-in-law or lived by himself. Question. Have you mentioned the names of all the persons on whom the other outrages were committed, so far as you know them all? Answer. So far as I could remember. Question. Have you mentioned the names of all the men who were whipped? Answer. So far as I could remember, I think I have. Question. Can you state the names of the witnesses of the whipping of this man Coulter, in Chattanooga? Answer. I heard it spoken of by some who heard the whipping, but I do not know exactly now who they were. A man told me he heard the whipping, but I don't know exactly who he was; he lives in that neighborhood somewhere. By Mr. BLAIR: Question. You say you have lived in Chattanooga since 1865? Answer. I have. Question. Were you in the town in 1866? Answer. I was. Question. Do you recollect the canvass fbr governor, when Mr. Brownlow was elected Answer. Yes, sir; I remember it. Question. Who was the democratic candidate in that canvass? Answer. Well, I disremember who was the democratic candidate. Question. Was it Mr. Etheridge? Answer. Etheridge was the man. Question. Was not Mr. Etheridge mobbed in that town by negroes? Answer. He was not, to my knowledge. Question. You did not know anything about that? Answer. No, sir. Question. Did you hear of it? Answer. I never heard anything about it, that I know of. Question. Did you hear of Mr. Etheridge being mobbed anywhere in the State? Answer. I don't think I ever did. Question. You never heard of his being mobbed by the negro militia of Brownlow? Answer. I never heard of it; if I did, it has slipped my memory. Question. Do you know of any democratic meetings having been broken up in Chattanooga by mobs? answer. In 1866? Question. Yes, sir. Answer. I do not know that any was broken up; there may have been some broken up; I did not take any particular part in politics in those days. If I happened to be around where there was anything going on, I generally knew of it; if not, I did not. I was a working fellow. I was never around at meetings of any sort except republican meetings. I never cared about'being at democratic meetings. They may have been broken up by some means or other; I don't know. I think I did hear Etheridge speak there once; it seems to me I did. Question. There was no mob at that time? Answer. No, sir; no mob at that time. I think William B. Stokes made the first speech, and I staid till after he was through, and heard Etheridge speak a little while. When I left I think he was not through speaking. Question. Did Mr. Etheridge and Mr. William B. Stokes speak at the same meeting? Answer. I think they did, if I am not mistaken. 4B

Page  50 50 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Question. Did you ever hear of any democratic meeting being broken up by the militia? Answer. I don't think I did. There may have been some broken up, and I may have heard of it, but I. don't remember it now. I don't remember hearing of any being broken up. I have been at meetings (I don't know but it was the time that Etheridge was running) when there weresome colored orators there from Memphis, or somewhere else, and some parties wanted to break the meeting up, and other parties wanted to let them go through with it. I have been at several meetings where parties wanted to break them up. Question. Who? Answer. Some rowdy drinking parties, such as there are in all political meetings, wanted to stop the meeting; then there were other parties, with more judgment, who wanted the meeting to go on. I don't know of any political meetings being broken up at all. It seems to me I was not in Chattanooga then. It seems like there was a meeting broken up there one night by the democrats in front of the National. That isthe only one I ever heard of. By Mr. BECK: Question. Have your people never interfered with any of your colored brethren when they wanted to vote the democratic ticket? Did they never object to their voting that ticket? Answer. Do you mean me? Question. No, the League? Answer. 0, yes, sir; some of them would talk to them, and tell them about it. Question. Have they not sometimes cuffed them about it pretty smartly? Answer. I don't know but there were some fights round the polls about voting; there might have been; I never had anything to do with it. I don't believe I ever knew an election to be held there without some little scuffle with some of them, I suppose, about voting the democratic ticket. Question. Was it not a rather hard thing for a colored man to get a chance to vote the democratic ticket when any of his colored brethren were about? Answer. I expect it was. Question. They would talk to him pretty roughly? Answer. They would talk to him about it, of course; refer him back to the days previous to these. I have talked to a good many of them. I never had any fuss with them about it. I have told them to vote as they pleased. I have had them reconsider, and vote the right sort of a ticket. I have seen them fooled by having the wrong ticket handed to them. Some have brought me their tickets to read for them, and I would tell them they were the wrong tickets. There is generally a contest about such things as that. Question. Have you not known colored men to be abused and beaten by other colored men for trying to vote the democratic ticket? Answer. It seems to me I have known some men have a fight about such things, but I could not say for certain when and where; but I have seen them have some contest about it. WASHINGTON, D. C., July 31, 1871. JOHN R. FRENCH sworn and examined. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. What official position do you occupy at this time? Answer. I am Sergeant-at-Arms for the Senate of the United States. Question. Has it been your duty to procure the attendance before this committee as witnesses of such persons as the committee have called from time to time? Answer. I have been engaged in that duty for this committee since some time in May last. Question. Were you directed to send for W. L. Saunders, of North Carolina? Alnswer. I was. Question. What communications, telegraphic or otherwise, have passed between you upon that subject? Ansiver. In answer, I submit the following: " WASHINGTON, D. C., July 15, 1871. " To W. L. SAUNDERS, Chapel Hill, North Carolina: "The Committee on Southern Outrages require your immediate attendance at Washington, as a witness before the committee. "JNO. R. FRENCH, "Sergeant-at-Arms United States Senate."

Page  51 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUHERN STATES. 51 [Dated Chapel Hill, July 18, 1871.-Received at 1, via Durham 1.19.] To JNO. R. FRENCH, Sergeant-at-Arms United States Senate: "Telegrams received. It will be impossible for me to reach Washington before next week. "W. L. SAUNDERS." By Mr. POOL: Question. Do you know whether Mr. Saunders came to this city after his telegram was sent to you? Answer. I did not see him. Two or three men have been in my room who said that Mr. Saunders had been in the city, and asked me if he had been in my office. That is all I know about it. By the CHAIRMAN.: Question. Did you subpoena James Avery, of Yorkville, South Carolina? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Did he reply? Answer. He did. He responded in person. Question. Did he report to you? Answer. He did. Question. Is he in the city at present? Answer. Not to my knowledge. Question. Did he obtain leave of absence from you or from the committee? Answer. He did not from me; I do not know what the committee said to him. After he had been gone a fortnight I received this letter from him: "ST. CATHARINES, ONTARIO, CANADA, "July 19, 1871. "General J. R. FRENCH, Sergeanlt-at-Arms United States Senate: " The extreme illness of Mrs. Avery, and the urgent necessity of at once bringing her to a cool and bracing climate, will, I hope, be a sufficient excuse to the members of the committee for my absence; and though I should dislike very much to leave her among strangers, yet if the committee wishes it, and my wife's health permits, I will endeavor to attend on any given day. My evidence would only touch upon local affairs in York district, South Carolina, of no general importance whatever. Please telegraph me at once if I am wanted or not. " I am, very respectfully, "J. W. AVERY. "If I am wanted, name as distant a day as possible. "J. W. A." By Mr. POOL: Question. When did he leave the city of Washington? Answier. About a fortnight before the date of this letter. After I received his letter, by order of the committee, I telegraphed to him, and the operator replied that he was not able to find him. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. You telegraphed that he was wanted? Answer. I telegraphed that he need not come. Question. Did you telegraph to F. N. Strudwick, of North Carolina, to come here as a witness? Answer. I did. The following papers will show what has been done: "WASHINGTON, D. C., June 9, 1871. "To F. N. STRUDWICK, Hilsborough, North Carolina: " You are wanted here immediately, as witness, by congressional committee investigating conditidn of late insurrectionary States. Telegraph when you may be expected. " JOHN R. FRENCH, " Sergeant-at-Arms United States Senate." [Dated Hillsborough, North Carolina, June 10, 1871.-Received at Washington, D. C., 10.30 a. m.] "To J. R. FRENCH, Sergeant-at-Arms United States Senate: "It is almost impossible for me to leave home without a sacrifice much too great for one in as reduced circumstances as I am. I am in the midst of my little harvest and

Page  52 52 MISCELLANEOUS. have no one to attend to it, and am entirely dependent upon it. Would like to know if my services could not be dispensed with. My movements will depend on the answer to this. " F. N. STRUDWICK." "JUNE 10, 1871. "To F. N. STRUDWICK, Hillsborough, North Carolina: "The committee require your attendance, but take a day or two to enable you to leave your business without loss; report what day you will appear. "JOHN R. FRENCH." " HILLSBOROUGH, NORTH CAROLINA, June 1'2, i871. "To JOHN R. FRENCH, Sergeant-at-Arms, United States Senate: "Will leave Hillsborough to-night for Washington. "F. N. STRUDWICK." [Dated Hillsborough, June 13, 1871.-Received at North Carolina, 1.10,p. m.];' To JOHN R. FRENCH, Sergeant-at-Arms, United States Senate: "I -was unavoidably detained last night; will leave to-night. " F. N. STRUDWICK." [Dated Hillsborough, June 14, 1871.-Received at North Carolina, 11 a. m.]' To JOHN R. FRENCH, Sergeant-at-Arms: "Was to have left last night, but my stacked wheat blown down, and will be detained a day or two; will telegraph when I will leave. " F. N. STRUDWICK." [Dated Hillsborough, June 19, 1871.-Received at 12.45 p. m.]' To J. R. FRENCH, Sergeant-at-Arms: " When will I be needed in Washington? I can go on some time this week. Please let me know. "F. N. STRUDWICK." "JUNE 19, 1871.' To F. N. STRUDWICIK, Hillsborough, North Carolina:' Any day this week will answer; but by Saturday certainly. "JOHN R. FRENCH, " Sergeant-at-Arms United States Senatc." "EBBITT HOUSE, Washington, D. C., Jnce 24, 1871. " MY DEAR SIR: I reached this place to-day and am now subject to your order. Please to dispose of me as quickly as may be, and oblige, "Yours, respectfully, "F. N. STRUDWICK. "Mr. JOHN R. FRENCH, "Sergeant-at-Arms United States Senate." When the committee called for Mr. Strudwick, I sent a messenger to the Ebbitt House, and he returned with the information that Mr. Strudwick had paid his bill and left. Afterward, by direction of the committee, a subpoena was served on him by the marshal there. After which the following telegrams will show what was done: [Dated Hillsborough, July 13, 1871.-Received at North Carolina 1.15 p. m.] "To Hon. LUKE P. POLLARD, " Chairman of the Select Committee to inquire into the " conditions of States lately in insurrection: "I had just received a summons over your name, commanding me to appear before your committee, at their room in Capitol, in Washington City, D. C., on the 14th, (tonmorrow,) at 12 o'clock. This is now impossible, as I could not possibly reach the city by that time allowing only a few hours to make the necessary arrangements. I have been confined to the house ever since my return from Washington, and am not now well enough to Aiake the journey; if you will have the kindness excuse me for a week or ten days, I will then hold myself ready to obey instantly your summons by telegraph. I have already obeyed one such summons and waited in Washington nearly an entire week, and was compelled to leave the city. Please answer. "F. N. STRUDWICK."

Page  53 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. 53 "JULY 13, 1871. "To F. N. STRUDWICK, Esq., Hillsborough, North Carolina: " Dispatch received by committee; they excuse you until the twentieth; desire your attendance that day without fail. "JNO. R. FRENCH, "Sergeant-at-Arms United States Senate." [Dated Hillsboro, IN. C., July 19, 1871.-Received at 4.25.] "To J. R. FRENCH, Sergeant-at-Armns: " We, the subscribers, physicians in this town, after full investigation of Mr. F. N. Strudwick, are of the opinion that he cannot with any propriety obey the summons to appear before your honorable body on the twentieth instant, and would request that further time be allowed him. "PRIDE JONES, M. D. "WM. CAMERON, M. D." I was also directed to call Mr. John Manning, jr., and Mr. D. Schenck, of North Carolina. From them I have received the following letters: "PITTSTON, NORTH CAROLINA, July 24, 1871. " M DEAR SIR: I received your telegram dated Washington, July 19, on yesterday, informing me that'I am wanted forthwith as a witness by congressional committee investigating condition of Southern States.' I am not nearer a telegraph office than forty miles, and must therefore reply by letter. It is impossible for me, without great loss and inconvenience, to leave here for Washington before the 5th day of August. If this will be allowed me I shall be very thankful; but if not, let me know and I will come right on. " Yours, very respectfully, "JOHN MANNING, JR. "Hon. JNO. R. FRENCH, "Sergeant-at-Arms United States Senate, Washington, D. C." " LINCOLNTON, NORTH CAROLINA, July 24, 1871. " DEAR SIR: Your telegram of the 12th, stating that I was wanted by the congressional committee on the 19th, and your telegram of the 19th inquiring if the first was received, both reached here on Saturday last, the 22d. I have received no summons from any one further than these telegrams. In the last you inquired when'I may'be expected?' I cannot come this week, as I have to attend superior court at Charlotte, and Monday week have to be at Newton, attending superior court, and I cannot therefore attend until after that time without great sacrifice to my professional interests and great inconvenience. "Yours, &c., &c., " D. SCHENCK. "JOHN R. FRENCH, Esq., "Sergeant-at-Arms, d'c., 4'c."

Page  54 TESTIMONY TAKEN BY THE SUB-COMMITTEE. FLORIDA. JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA, Novenmber 10, 1871. SAMUEL TUTSON (colored) sworn and examined. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. What is your age, where were you born, and where do you now live? Answer. As near as I can come at it, I am betweenfifty-three and fifty-fouryears old; I was born in Virginia, and I now live in Clay County, seven miles from Waldo, on the Santa F6. Question. How long have you lived there? Answer. I left there this year; since May. Question. Where did you live before that? Answer. On Number Eleven Pond, in Clay County. Question. Are there any people in your county that they call Ku-Klux? Answer. They called themselves Ku-Klux that whipped me that night. Question. What night was that? Answer. I do not know hardly what night it was; but they whipped me like the mischief. Question. What month was it? Answer. It was in May. Question. How many were there? Answer. There were nine; five swung on to me, and four to my wife. Question. At what time in the day or night was it? Answer. It was between midnight and day. Question. Were they disguised; and if so, how were they disguised? Answer. They blacked their hands and blacked their faces. Question. Was there any change made in their clothing? Answer. No, sir; one came in in his shirt-sleeves, but all the rest had on their coats. Question. Tell us what they did when they came, and all that was done. Answer. They came to my house, and my dog barked a time or two, and I went out and could see nobody; my wife went out and could see nobody at all; we had not more than got into the house and got into bed, when they came and flung themselves against the door, and it broke loose on both sides, and fell right into the middle of the floor; my wife said, " Who's that?" Then George McCrea made to her, anqd I made to her to help her; as I did so, some one standing by the door caught me by my right arm, and I could not get to her; they pulled and pulled, and tried to pull me away, but they could not, and then they dragged my feet from under me and flung me down across a cellar-door and near broke my back; they dragged me over the fence, and broke down five or six panels, and took me away down the hill on the side of a hammock, and tied me to a pine and whipped me. Question. How many lashes did they give you? Answer. It is out of my power to tell you. Question. How many of them struck you? Answer. Well, they blindfolded me for a time; Dave Donley struck me over the eye before I got to the place where they tied me, and they stamped on me and kicked me; he was the first one who whipped me after I was tied, and Bob Lane was the next one who struck me. Question. How many licks did they strike you? Answer. I cannot tell you; they hit me a whole parcel of times. Question. Who struck you? Answer. Cabell Winn struck me with a pistol and choked me, and ran my head up against the tree, and told me that if it was not for sin, he would blow my "God-damned brains out." He said that I pulled down my fence, and let people's stock in my fields, and killed them. I said, "You can't prove it." He said he could prove it on my Goddamned back." Question. Who else struck you? Answer. All struck me; but the rest I did not see, for I was blindfolded when the

Page  55 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 55 rest struck me. When they ran my head up against the tree, I could see Bob Lane, and Dave Donley, and Cabell Winn. Question. Did they blindfold you before they began to whip you? Answer. Yes, sir; and they stripped me just as naked as your hand; they took every rag off of me, and took my shirt and tore it up, and took a piece and blindfolded me, and then took another piece and twisted it up, and put it into my mouth, like a bridlebit, so that I could not holler. Question. Were you standing up? Answer. All the time. Question. Did they tie you to anything Answer. They made me hug a tree and tied my hands together. Question. When they got through whipping you, what did they do? Answer. They went and tore down my house, and said that they were going to whip us as long as they wanted to; and then they were going to tie us up by the thumbs and let us hang awhile; and then hang us by the neck until we were dead; and then fling us into Number Eleven Pond. Question. Did they untie you when they were done whipping you? Answer. They did not untie me when they got done their whipping, but I got loose while they were tearing down my house. Two of them staid there, and the rest went to the house, and when my wife broke loose, they ran to her, and I got clear. Quesiion. Who whipped your wife? Answer. All of them; she can tell you about that more than I can. Question. How far from the house did they take you to whip you? Answer. As near as I can come at it, it was about a quarter of a mile. Question. What did they whip you for-what did they have against you? Answer. Because I would not give up my land to Mr. Winn. I bought a man's improvements, a man by the name of Free Thompson. Mr. Tire and Mr. Thompson were first cousins. After Thompson was gone with my money that I let him have for his improvements, Tire came there and said that it was his land. I asked him why he did not let me know when I first came there, and he said he wanted me to do a heap of work there before he bothered me. I said, " Are you going to give me anything at all for what I gave for the land?" He said, "No." I said, "Are you going to give me anything for the crop in the ground?" He said " No." I said, " Are you going to give me anything at all for the improvements I have put on?" He said, "No." Then I said, "Is there any law here for kinky heads?" He said, " Yes, there is." I said, " No, there isn't." He said, "Yes; there is as much law for you as for me." I said, " Then, if there is any law for kinky heads, I will find it." He tried. a right smart while to get me away, and I would not go; and Mr. Winn took it to get me away from there. Question. What did they do with your things that were in the house? Answer. They left them there. I went'to Mr. Buddington, to let him know what they did. He sent me to Mr. Kennedy, and told me that if Mr. Kennedy did not serve the writ, to come back to him. A little boy living at Mr. Kennedy's was there at Mr. Buddington's, and he went home and told Mr. Kennedy, and he served the writ. Question. Did you hear Winn say what he would do if anybody went up there from Jacksonville to help you? Answer. I did not hear him say it myself, but I heard it here this week. Question. What was it? Answer. It was that if any body should go from here up there, he should not get back any more. I did not hear him say so, for he is not here: but I heard that he sent that word down here. Question. When did you come to Jacksonville? Answer. I think last Thursday week. Question. Did you leave your land when they pulled your house down and whipped you? Answer. I left my land; but Mr. Buddington told me to go and have my house done up strong and good, and if anybody come there, to kill them. I said I was afraid to stay there. He told me to work there in the daytime, and go to my neighbors at night. May neighbors were too far off, and I quit there altogether. Question. Who has the land now? Answer. I have the land, but nobody is living on it. I have the title to it in town now. Question. Where does Mr. Winn live? Answer. About a mile and a half or two miles from where 1 lived there. Question. How much money did you give for the land? Answver. I gave cotton enough to come to $150, and then I homesteaded 160 acres. Question. You had some things in the house, had you not? Answer. Yes, sir; some little. Question. What did they do with them? Answer. Nothing at all; it is all there now. I have not been there since, except that

Page  56 56 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. I went on by there to go to Mr. Buddington's, and somebody, I do not know who, some of the same party, I suppose, had pulled the fence down in two places, and the cattle had gone in there and ate all my crop. Question. What were your crops? Answer. I reckon I had cotton enough to come to about a bag and a half, and besides right smart corn and potatoes. I left that place and went about seven miles from Santa F6 with Mr. Owen Swindell. Question. Did they disturb you there? Answer. No, sir; only John Hagan came there and talked with Mr. Swindell, and said that he had not seen me since I went to Mr. Buddington, but if he ever got close to me, he intended to hurt me. Question. Hagan was one of the men who were along at the time you were whipped? Answer. Yes, sir. Owen Swindell was his uncle. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. In what county did these things happen? Answer. In Clay County, at Number Eleven Pond. Question. When was it? Answer. Last May. Question. How long had you been in Clay County? Answer. I had been living there three years. Question. On this same land? Answer. Yes, sir; but I did not work much on the land; I made one crop there before. Question. Whom did you work for? Answer. Mr. Winn, pretty near all the time. Question. What is his first name? Answer. Jack Winn. Question. How far from you did he live? Answer. As near as I can get at it, about two miles. Question. From whom did you buy that land? Answer. A man by the name of Free Thompson. Question. Is he a white man? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You gave cotton amounting to $150? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And after that Winn claimed it as his own land? Answer. No, sir; he had a little piece of land right by it, and he offered to sell me his laud. Mr. Isaac Tire had land there, too, but it was of no account. It was considered that my land was the best on Number Eleven Pond, and he wanted to say that my land was his and his land was mine, and he tried to get me away from there all he could. Question. Did he ever sue you in the courts? Answer. No, sir; he talked about it. Question. How many acres had you? Answer. In all? Question. Yes. Answer. I homesteaded 160 acres. Question. You did that under the United States law? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. How much did you buy? Answer. Not more than about three acres, hardly that. Question. That was all the good land this man claimed? Answer. Yes, sir. That piece of land had got about seven or eight acres of hammock on it, and it was the only hammock land anywhere close by. Question. This man who owned land next to yourself claimed that you bought property that belonged to him? Answer. Yes, sir; that was Isaac Tire; he and Free Thompson were first cousins. He said that it was his land, and that Free Thompson had sold his land to me, and he wanted me to give it up. I asked him if he was going to pay me anything for what I gave for it, and he said no. Question. What was it they said about your pulling down fences and killing stock? Answer. Cabell Winn said that; I was tied then around the tree. He said, " God damn you, you pull down your fences and drive people's stock in there and kill them." I said, " Can you prove it? " He said, " I will prove it on your God-damned back." Question. Did you shoot anybody's stock? Answer. No, sir; I have got to do that yet. Question. You never killed any stock that were on your land? Answer. No, sir. Question. After you were whipped, to whom did you make your first complaint? Answer. To Mr. Buddington.

Page  57 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 57 Question. Who is he? Answer. He is head over Clay County; he rules it, so they tell me. Question. What office did he hold? Answer. I do not know exactly. Question. What did he do to you? Answer. He sent me to Mr. Kennedy. Question. Who is Mr. Kennedy? Answer. He is a magistrate. Question. In that county? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What did he do? Answer. He took all the names down and gave them to my son Henry, and he took them to the sheriff. Question. Did you make oath to this before the magistrate? Answer. Do you mean like I made here a while ago? Question. Yes. Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And then you gave him these names? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You know who those three men who whipped you were? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Did you know the rest? Ansvwer. I know them all, every one. Question. When the sheriff got the names, what did he do? Answer. The high sheriff took George McCrea away from the deputy sheriff's place, and put his daddy there, and then they arrested these nine men; so the old man told me. Question. Did they take them up? Answer. They did not take them up at all. Question. Did they arrest them? Answer. Yes, sir. Question, What did they do? Answer. They let them stay as they were. Question. Do you know whether they made them give bond? Answer. No, sir. Question. Do you know what that means? Answer. No, sir. Question. Do you know anything about giving bail? Answer. No, sir. Question. You do not know what they did to enable them to go free? Answer. No, sir; they did not take them up. Question. What did they do? Answer. He told me he had been around and shook hands with them all, and that was the way he got up with them. Question. Do you recollect the name of the man who told you that? Answer. His name is at my tongue's end, but I cannot call it now: but my wife knows. Question. You do not know his name? Answer. I know his name, but I cannot call it now. Question. This was in May last? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. How long after you were so abused did they arrest those men; how long was it after that that the sheriff told you he had got up with them by shaking hands with them? Answer. It was mighty near a month. Question. Have you been back there again since that time? Answer. To the land, do you mean? Question. In that county to see the sheriff? Answer. No, sir; I saw the sheriff at Green Cove Spring. Question. What did he say? Answer. He did not say anything to me about the land at all. Question. Have you done anything further to prosecute those nine men? Answer. I went to the Spring, where they told me there was a United States lawyer; Mr. Buddington sent word for me to meet him there at his court, but his court was over a week or two before I got there, before I got the word. Question. You did not get there in time? Answer. No, sir; I did not get the word in time; and when I did get there, Mr. Buddington was gone; the United States lawyer was there, and I inquired for the lawyer and they told me that he was down taking a bath, and what sort of a man he was, and that I would see him at the gate when he came out. I stood at the spring gate, and

Page  58 58 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. when some men came by I said: " Isn't one of you gentlemen a United States lawyer?" He asked what I wanted, and I said I had a paper that I wanted him to look at. Question. What paper? Answer. The paper about my land; he looked at it, and told me he was going to breakfast, and that I must come up into the court-house after breakfast and see him; I told him what they had been doing to me, and he said they had no occasion to beat me; after a right smart while in the day I saw him again. Question. What did he do? Answer. He took all the names down, and put them in his pocket, and I have not seen them since.'Question. Did he swear you again? Answer. Yes, sir; up in the court. Question.. He swore you as this gentleman [pointing to the chairman] swore you just now? Answer, Yes, sir. Question. What else did he do? Answer. I do not recollect of his doing anything else. Question. Did he tell you to stay there? Answer. No, sir. Question. Did he tell you when to come there again? Answer. No, sir. Question. What is his name? Answer. I do not know; I never saw him before that I know of. Question. He represents the United States in that place? Answer. He put the papers in his pocket, and I do not know what he was going to do; but Mr. Murray came up and subptenaed me to come down here. Question. How long ago was it that you saw this United States lawyer at the Spring, and went into the court-house and was sworn before him? Answer. It has been about three weeks ago; maybe a little longer. Qestion. He has the case in hand for you? Answer. That lawyer? Yes; he fetched the papers here, I suppose. Question. He has a list of the names of the men who abused you? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Did he promise you he would get you redress? Answer. No, sir; he did not promise anything. Question. That was about three weeks ago.? Answei. About that; as near as I can come at it. Question. What did you come over here for? Answer. Mr. Murray came for, me. Question. Who is he? Answer. He is the United States sheriff here, I suppose. Question. They call him marshal, do they? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Did he show you any paper when he came, or tell you to come here? Answer. He gave me a paper, and one to my wife. Question. How long ago was that? Answer. I think it was week before last; I have been here now going on two weeks. Question. Have you been before the court here? Answer. Yes, sir; they had me in two of these places. Question. Did you make an oath to what you are telling us now, before different officers? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You first made oath before the magistrate, and told him the facts? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And then you have done it in two or three places here in Jacksonville? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And now you are giving the same facts to this committee? Answer. Yes, sir, as near as I can get at them. Question. Who is the judge of your county, Clay County? Answer. Mr. Buddington, they call Judge Buddington, and Captain Buddington. Question. He told you to fasten your house up stronger and shoot these fellows if they disturbed you? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. How far from you does he live? Answer. Near about twenty or thirty miles. Question. Have you many neighbors down there? Answer. Mr. Winn is the nearest neighbor; I have no black neighbors within four miles of me. And this lawyer told me the same, if anybody bothered me to kill them. Question. To defend yourself in your house? Answer. Yes, sir.

Page  59 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 59 Question. Were you ever at an election in Clay County? Answer. No, sir; not in Clay County. Question. You never were at an election in that county? Answer. No, sir. Question. Are there most black people or white people there? Answer. There are most white people; there are not more than two or three black families, to my knowing, in the county. Question. They are generally white? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. When you asked a man about a kinky-head getting justice, who told you that you could get the same justice there as anybody else? Answer. Mr. Isaac Tire. Question. What relation is he to the man you bought the land from? Anszer. First cousin. Question. He said that you could get justice in the courts for your own land the same as any white man could? Answer. Yes, sir; he said I had as much law as they had. I told him if there was any law for kinky-heads, I would find it. JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA, November 10, 1871. HANNAH TUTSON (colored) sworn and examined. By the CHAIRMAAN: Question. State your age, where you were born, and where you now live? Answer. As near as I can tell I am about forty-two or forty-three years old. I was born in Gadsden, Florida, and I now live in Clay County, near Waldo, on old Number Eleven Pond. Question. Are you the wife of Samuel Tutson? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Were you at home when he was whipped last spring? Answer. Yes; sir, I was at home. Question. Tell us what took place then, what was done, and how it was done. Answer. When they came to my house that night the dog barked twice, and the old man got up and went out of doors and then came back and lay down; she flew out again, and I got up and went out of doors; I knew the slut barked more than usual, but I could see nothing; I went back into the house, and just as I got into bed five men bulged right against the door, and it fell right in the middle of the floor, and they fell down. George McCrea was the first who got up. I had no chimney in the house, but a board floor, and he went where I had left all the children; went circling around toward the children's bed, and I said "Who's that?" The old man had not spoke. George McCrea ran right to me and gathered me by the arm. As I saw him coming, I took up the child-the baby-and held to him. The old man threw his arms round my neck and held on to me. Cabell Winn catched hold of my foot, and then there were so many hold of me I cannot tell who they were. George McCrea and Cabell Winn were the first to take hold of me. He said, " Come in, True-Kluk." I started to scream, and George McCrea catched me right by the throat and choked me. I worried around and around, and he catched the little child by the foot and slinged it out of my arms. I screamed again, and he gathered me again. Then there were so many hold of me that they got me out of doors. After they got me out, I looked up and I saw Jim Phillips, George McCrea, and Henry Baxter. I looked ahead of me and they had the old man; and they tore down the fence the same as if you saw people dragging hogs from the butcher-pen. And they went to another corner of the fence and jerked me over, just as if you were jerking a dumb beast. The old man was ahead of me, and I saw Dave Donley stamp on him. I said " Sam, give up; it is not worth while to try to do anything; they will try to kill us here." They said, "0, God damn you, we will kill you." I said, "I will go with you." George McCrea said, " Come right along." I said, " Yes, I am coming; I will come right along." After they carried me about a quarter of a mile from the house-may be a little more; I cannot tell exactly how far it was; it was a good distance from the house-they took me through a path to a field, and down to the lower end of the field. When they got there he said, " Come here, True-Klux." The True-Klux came there and stopped and whispered about as far as from here to this gentleman, [pointing to a member of the committee sitting at the table.] Then he said, "Now, old lady, you pretend to be a good Christian; you had better pray right off." I cast my eye up to the elements and begged God to help me. George McCrea struck me over the head with a pistol, and said, " God damn you, wvhat are you making this fuss for?" I said,

Page  60 60 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. "No." He said, " Where is the ropes?" They said they had lost the ropes. Now, I never saw any horses; I did not see any that night. They went off next to my field and came back with a handful of saddle-girths, with the buckles on them. They took and carried me to a pine, just as large as I could get my arms around, and then they tied my hands there. They pulled off all my linen, tore it up so that I did not have a piece of rag on me as big as my hand. They tied me, and I said,." Men, what are you going to do with me?" They said, "God damn you, we will show you; you are living on another man's premises." I said, " No; I am living on my own premises; I gave 150 for it, and Captain Buddington and Mr. Mundy told me to stay here." He said, " God damn you, we will give them the same we are going to give you." I quit talking to them, only as they asked me anything. They tied me to a tree and whipped me for awhile. Then George McCrea would say, " Come here, True-Klux." Then the TrueKlux would come, and they would step off about as far as that gentleman and whisper; and then they would say that they would go off to where the saddles were. They would go, and then when they came back they would whip me again. Every time they would go off, George McCrea would act scandalously and ridiculously toward me, and treat me shamefully. When he saw them coming again he would make me get up. He would make me squat down by the pine, and say, " What are you trembling for?" I would say that I was cold, and was afraid that I would freeze. He would get his knees between my legs and say, " God damn you, open your legs." I tell you, men, that he did act ridiculously and shamefully, that same George McCrea. He sat down there and said, " Old lady, if you don't let me have to do with you, I will kill you." I said, "No; do just what you are going to do." He said, " God damn you, I am going to kill you." They whipped me, and went off again to the horses, and got liquor of some kind and poured it on my head, and I smelled it for three weeks, so that it made me sick. They went off and whispered, and then he told them to go to my house and tear it down. He asked me where was my ox. It was in the field, but I would not tell him; I said that my son-in-law had got my cart. He said, " Where is your son-in-law?" I said, "He has gone to Palatka." He said, "Where is your ox?" I would not tell him. He would whisper to them, and tell them to go and get the ox, and to get my things and start them off to-night. He said, " Let's start them right off to-night." They would go and hunt, and then come back. He would make me sit down while they were gone. Understand me, men, while they were gone to hunt for that ox, George McCrea would make me sit down there, and try to have me do with him right there. They came back and whipped me. I said, "Yes, men, if you will stop whipping me, I will give way to you." Gentlemen, you do not know what expressions Cabell Winn made out of his mouth. It was all smutty on their faces, only right from the ear down, and their hands were smutty. Some were in their shirtsleeves, and some had coats on. I had been working with them very nearly three years. You know that when any person gets about half drunk, he cannot alter his voice but what you can tell him. I have been working and washing for them; I had not been two weeks from his mother's house, where I had been washing; I washed there every week. That is the way they did me; they came back and whipped me. George McCrea said, " I came to dispossess you of this place once before." There were four men whipping me at once. Question. With what? Answer. With saddle-girths, as I told you; with surcingles off the saddles. George McCrea said, "We came to dispossess you once before, and you said you did not care if we did whip you." I said, "Stop, men, and let me see." One of them said, " Stop, and let her get her breath." Mr. Winn talked all kind of nasty talk to me. I got so I did not count Mr. Winn more than he counted me. I told Mr. Winn just exactly three weeks before they whipped me that I did not care what they did for me just so I saved my land. Said I, " In the red times, how many times have they took me and turned my clothes over my head and whipped me? I do not care what they do to me now if I can only save my land." He again asked me ifI said that, andI said, " Stop; I will see." After a minute I said, " Yes, I did say so." Cabell Winn says, " Yes, you damned bitch, you did say so." I did not tell anybody but Cabell Winn and his daddy, for my husband was gone. The night they came to whip me they did not expect to find the old man there, and when they found he had hold of me as they were carrying me to the door, he says, "Oh, God damn you, are y'ou here?" And the time they were whipping me they said, " Now, listen, God damn you, at that poor old man; you were a God damned old bitch to get the poor old man in this fix; listen at him, you damned old bitch." I would have told this just the way you hear me tell it now before the others, but they stopped me. Question. How many lashes did they give you in all? Answer. I cannot tell you, for they whipped me from the crown of my head to the soles of my feet. I was just raw. The blood oozed out through my frock all around my waist, clean through, when I got to Captain Buddington's. After I got away from them that night I rani to my house. My house was torn down. I went in and felt where my bed was. It was along in the middle of the floor. I went to the other cor

Page  61 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 61 ner of the house and felt for my little children. I could not see one, and the bed was hoisted up in the corner of the house and hitched there, and is there now. I could not feel my little children and I could not see them. I said, " Lord, my little children are dead." I went to the box of my things and I picked up a dress Ihad there, but I went five miles before I put it on my back. When I got near one of my neighbor's house I hollered "murder," and they heard me, and they said they heard horses' feet go by. I did hear horses myself, and I hollered, for I was afraid. I cannot read, and I have got no clock, but as near as I can get to it, I got away from them an hour to day, and I went twelve miles by sunrise after I got away from them. I went through to Mr. Montgomery's house. I could not bear my clothes fastened on me. I told them to give me a light as quick as they could so that I might go back and hunt up my children. I have two grown sons and a daughter, who are married and gone off. I said, " Give me a light; I expect my husband is dead, and I want to go back and find my children." I went back again, and I heard him holler, but I could hear nothing of my children. They said, " Go by Mr. Ashley's and get him to ride up there." I went by Mr. Ashley's, and went in there. I turned up my clothes, and let Mr. Ashley see how I was whipped. I had on nothing but a frock, and I could not fasten it. He said, "Woman, go back home and hunt for your husband and children. If he is dead, don't stand to bury him, but go right on to Whitesville." I told him I did not know how to go there. He said, " If you have not been it is right enough to hunt up your boys, and let them go with you; if your husband is dead don't stand to bury him." Question. Did you find your children? Answer. I did next day at 12 o'clock. Question. Where were they? Answer. They were there at my house, where the true-klux had whipped me. Their father lay out to the middle of the night, and my children lay out there too. They said that when they got away from me they went out into the field, and my little daughter said that as the baby cried she would reach out and pick some gooseberries and put them in its little mouth. When she could hear none of them any more she went up into the field to a log heap and staid there with her brother and the baby. At daylight the old man came by a little house I had been living in, and which I used to keep some corn and things in, and they had torn it down, and the hogs had been in there eating up what corn and little stuff I had there. Question. How old were your children? Answer. One was about five years old, another betwixt nine and ten, and the other was not quite a year old, lacking two months. Question. That was the one you had in your arms when they jerked it away? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Did the baby get hurt? Answer. Yes, sir; in one of its hips. When it began to walk one of its hips was very bad, and every time you would stand it up it would scream. But I rubbed it and rubbed it, and it looks like it was outgrowing it now. Question. How soon did you see your husband? Ansver. Only when I saw my children. He was whipped so bad he could not travel as I did; he staid at home. When I got back there Mr. Chesnut, a white gentleman, had him there, and he and Mr. Chesnut were sitting there talking. Question. Did you see where he had been whipped? Answer. Yes, sir; he could not sit up. Question. Where had he been whipped, on what part of his body? Answer. All over it; his legs were whipped more than anywhere else. They did not begin to whip me as they did him. When I came Mr. Chesnut was there, and unfastening my frock, my daughter gave me some linen to put on, and Mr. Chesnut looked at me where I was whipped. I went by Mr. Rohan Wall's and let him look at me once. But they stand to it to-day, until yet, that that land is not mine; they say it is Tire's. Mr. Winn coaxed me and begged me to give it up before they whipped me. Question. He wanted to make you give up the land? Answer. Yes, sir; they came there about three weeks before they whipped me to dispossess me of the place. Question. Who came there before? Answer. George McCrea, and old Mr. Sullivan, and Dave Donley, and Mr. Hagan, and Jake Winn. Mr. Byrd Sullivan came on Saturday. I spoke to them very rash, and I was sort of sorry I spoke to them in that way. Mr. Hagan came back and wanted to give me some advice. He told me it was Judge Buddington and Barney Crocker. I said I did not believe it, because they told me that this was my land1 and not Tire's land. Tire was the first one who made out that he entered my land. I said, "I am going to die on this land." Hagan said, " You better give it up." Mrs. Lane sent for me to come and wash for her one day in a week, to scour and wash, any day in the week I felt like it. They made me mad Saturday about driving me from my place, and I would not go to Mrs. Lane's the first of the week. I had to go through Jake Winn's yard to go to her house. My son was working there, and I went in and saw

Page  62 62 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Mrs. Winn and told her good morning. She says, "Hannah, I thought you were gone." I said, " Gone where I" She said, " Off the place." I said, "No, I am not going off the place; didn't Captain Buddington tell me to stay here? I am not going; no law is going to move me from here except Tallahassee law." I said, "What are they going to do to me, Mrs. Hagan " She said," They are going to whip you." I said,' I wish they would whip me," and then I went off. I told Mrs. Lane about it, and she said, " I have nothing to do with it; it is y'our land; you ought to have your land." She went and told Mr. Byrd Sullivan. He pretended to be courting of her then; she told him what I had to say. That was on Wednesday. On Friday while I was eating my breakfast, with nobody there but me and my little children, Byrd Sullivan came to my house with Jake Winn and Dave Donley and George McCrea. They went into the field and let down the fence; the old man was gone to the hammock. Old Byrd Sullvan came up to the house and said: " Aunty, these people are devilish people; they are determined to put you off this land. Now, pay good attention to what I say. When you get your hand into a lion's mouth you pull it out just as easy as you can. Pay good attention to me. I would like to see your Qld man this morning, but he is not at home. You can tell your old man to give it up, or in a month's time, or such a matter, they will come here, and the lot will push him out of doors and let you eat this green grass." I began to cry, and he said, " You will stop this grieving and crying; tell your old man to keep on writing; I know what you paid for this land; you gave cotton for it." I said, "Yes; I gave cotton enough to come to $150." He said, "Tell your old man to keep on writing, and when he gets the papers for his land let him come to me and he will have his land back." I said, " Mr. Ashly, Mr. Rohan and Mr. Swindell told me not to give it up; that if I let anybody else come on the land I could not get it back." Question. How long had you been living there?" Answer. Nearly three years. Question. How many crops had you made? Answer. Two crops. Question. And this crop would have been the third? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You spoke about some of them " wanting to do with you," as you expressed it. Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What one was that? Answer. George McCrea. Question. Did you give way to him? Answer. No, sir; George McCrea acted so bad, and I was stark naked. I tell you, men, he pulled my womb down so that sometimes now I can hardly walk. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. Who is George McCrea; where does he live? Answer. His father and mother live in Stark County. Question. In what county did this happen? Answer. In Clay County, on old Number Eleven pond. Question. What county does this George McCrea himself live in? Answer. He stays in Clay County, but his father and mother live in Stark County. Question. What does he follow for a living? Answer. I do not know what he is following for a living now; he was a deputy sheriff when he came and whipped me. Question. Did you go with your husband to the court-house when he made the complaint before the United States lawyer? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Where was that? Answer. At Whitesville. Question. That is in Clay County? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Do you know that lawyer's name? Answer. There was nobody there but Mr. Kennedy. Question. Was there a court-house in that town? Answer. Yes, sir; but it was tried through a magistrate's court; that is all the court it has been tried through yet. Question. Did you tell him what you have said to us? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Just exactly what you have told here about this man McCrea? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Did they get out a writ for him? Answer. They got out a writ for him, and they served it; but when they served it it did not go like I had'said it when I came to court again; there was a difference. Mr. Winn gave bond for every one of the men. Question. How many did they get of them?

Page  63 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 63 Answer. They had all three. Question. They had them arrested and brought up? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And made to give bonds? Answer. No, sir; they did not give bonds at all. Question. Did Mr. Winn give bonds? Answer. He did at home. When George McCrea did this act they took the sheriff's business away from him, and gave it to old Mr. Byrd Sullivan. Mr. Sullivan came to Mr. Winn; you know that he and Mr. Winn are great friends. He did not take these men and carry them away. Question. He took the bonds out there at Mr. Winn's? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Do you know how much the bonds were? Answer. No, sir. Question. Did you go to court again? Answer. I have not been at any court. They tried their best to run me out of the State. I came down about four weeks ago to the spring, and I put it out there at the circuit court. Four days after I got home they came for me to come down here. Question. They had you there in the circuit court? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What did you do there? Answer. I said that Henry Brassel choked me, and the old man said that he whipped me, and they said that was what cast us. Question. Did, you make these statements at the spring before the circuit court? Answer. No, sir; the old man went there and made a statement. Question. What lawyer did you see there? Answer. I cannot tell you. Question. You saw a lawyer there? Answer. I did not go into the court-house. Question. Did you go into anybody's office and give testimony? Answer. No, sir. My old man went to the court-house and saw a lawyer, and he put the names down; and then I was summoned here three weeks ago, and they had a trial here. Question. What did you do after you got here about that trial? Answer. I told the same testimony. Question. To whom did you tell it? Answer. I cannot tell you; there are so many people here that I cannot tell them. Question. Were they Ulited States officials? Answer. I do not know who they were. Question. Were they persons to whom you were directed to tell your story? Answer. Yes, sir; there was a gentleman who sent for me. Question. Was he a United States marshal? Answer. Yes, sir; I think so. Question. Was there any suit by this man who claimed your land; did he ever go into court there against you? Answer. No, sir. Question. You never had a lawsuit about the land? Answer. No, sir. Question. You said that at one time they pame to dispossess you. Was one of the people who came there then a sheriff of the county? Answer. I told you that Jesse HaganQuestion. Did they read any paper to you? Answer. No, sir; they did not read any paper at all. Question. They came to tell you that you had better give up the land? Answer. Yes, sir; they told me it was not my land; that it was another man's; that is all; so they told me the night they whipped me. Question. When you say your land, you mean you and your husband? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You gave your testimony here about three weeks ago? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You do not know enough about courts to know what was' done? Answer. No, sir; it never has been in court before. Question. Do you know what has become of McCrea? Answer. They say that he and Dave Donley, and Jim Phillips, and John Hagan have run off. When they whipped me, Mr. Buddington told me to go back, but I was dubious about going back, for fear they would kill me if I arrested them. I went to John Hagan's uncle and worked with him this year. They talked about prosecuting him for harboring negroes. He told me that if I ever was going to do anything with it in the world, I had better go to Green Cove Spring; he said it was not worth while for me to go, but the old man could go. They said they were going to arrest Mr.

Page  64 64 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Swindell and his father, both together; they said they knew right smart that could bother him. They came and I staid at home; they came back on Saturday, and said that the old man was nearly dead, and that I had better go down to Green Cove Springs as quick as I could, and that if I ever was going to do anything with it I should put it in then; when I got down there the old man could sit up a little in bed, and I told him to go to the court-house. They said, the State's attorney was in the bathing-house, and if the old man would go soon, he would see him as he came out, and that if he would hand him his papers, that was the way he could get the case in court. Question. What is the name of the State's attorney? Answer. I do not know; I never saw him. Question. The old man gave him his papers? Answer. Yes, sir; and he told them how hard they had beat him; and he said they had no right to beat him about his own land. They told him to come up to the courthouse after a while; no man was there but Mr. Byrd Sullivan, and he said that he must not offend the citizens; that they had come to make friends with us. All the time I ever heard from them they talked about if they ever saw me they would hurt me, and make me go out of the State; and if they could make me stay off the place for twelve months, then it was Dave Donley's land, and I would have to relinquish my claim. Now, I paid too much, and I have worked too much to lose it. I have about fifty or sixty acres tending, and then I have all the hummock under fence. Question. How much land was it you bought? Answer. I bought 150 acres, I think. Question. How much land had you, with this land that was claimed by them? Answer. They said they had a whole piece run off. Old Mr. Darley said, when he looked at the titles that they had given the old man, and the certificate, and when he had looked at Tire's papers, he was the first man who said he had entered my land; Isaac Tire tried his even best before to put us off the place, and we would not give up the place; then he wanted to rent it to us, and I said I would not rent it from him. Mrs. Winn told me not to give up the place, and that it was not Tire's land; and she said, " Don't let Jakey," (that is her husband) " know what I tell you." I said, " No, I will not;" and I have never called her name about it before to-day, in all my talking, because the woman treated me like a lady. She said, "Don't give up the place; tell Tire that you are going to die on the place, and don't give it up." They worried me for half a year; all the time I was planting my crop they worried me. Donley came and said that he was going to buy it, and I and my old man told him not to buy it. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. You said that one man choked you, and that the old man said that he whipped you? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Whom did you say that to? Answer. I said that before Mr. Kennedy. Question. What did they do? Answer. They put me in jail and said that I swore false; they put me in jail about 1 o'clock Saturday evening, and I staid in jail, I reckon, until about 2 o'clock, Sunday. Question. Where was that? Answer. In Whitesville. Question. What did they do with the old man? Answer. They put him in, too. Question. What did they put you in jail for? Answer. They said I swore false doctrine. Question. Who had you put in jail? Answer. Jake Winn had us put in jail, and, as far as I recollect, John Sullivan was the man that put us in there; he was the high sheriff. Question. Who got you out of jail? Answer. Mr. Bennett paid me out, and he has my ox and cart now; I put it in pawn. Question. Did that man choke you? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And did he whip you? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. He both choked and whipped you? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You have been asked who George McCrea was, and you said something about his father and mother. Have they any property? Answer. I could not tell you; I do not know anything about that. When they came to my house to dispossess me of the land, George McCrea and Barney McCrea told the old man he would never let the sheriff come there. Question. You have told us all you know about it? Answer. Yes, sir, and just as straight as I could tell it. I have told it straighter today than I did before, because when we had a trial here the other week they stopped me almost every word, and I missed some I told here to-day.

Page  65 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 65 JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA, November 10, 1871. R. W. CONE sworn and examined. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. What is your age, where were you'born, where do you now live, and what is your occupation? Answer. I will be thirty-five the 10th day of next month; I was born in Bullock County, Georgia; and I now live in Jacksonville; I am a carpenter by trade. Question. How long since you have been living in Jacksonville? Answer. Off and on since 1858. The last time I came here to live was on the 28th or the 29th of June last. Question. Where had you been living up to that time? Answer. In Baker County, Florida. Question. How long had you lived in Baker County? Answer. From October, 1868, until I came here. Question. What reason had you for coming here? Answer. On the night of the 24th of June last, a crowd of men' came into my house and took me out and gave me a whipping. Question. How many men were there? Answer. From the noise they made when they entered the house, I supposed that some ten or a dozen came into the house; they carried me out a piece from the house, and there some more came up to them, and when they went into the woods, another crowd gathered up there; I suppose there were some eighteen or twenty, or more. Question. What time of the night was it? Answer. It was half past 10 o'clock when I got back to the house I asked my wife what time it was, and she said it was five minutes before 11. Question. Were those people disguised? Answer. They had on their common clothes, but they had their faces smutted. Question. Where were you when they came to your house? Answer. In my bed. Question. With your family? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Give us a narative of what occurred then. Answer. I went to bed as usual that night, and in the night the hammering on the door woke me up; I hollered out, " Who's that?" and raised up in my bed at the same time; as I raised up, the dqor came open; these men came in, and when they got into the front room they struck a match, which showed them where the door of the bedroom was; they commenced beating on the door; I do not know with what, and they knocked it in; two men walked in side by side; one had a club in his hand; when he got in reach of me, he struck me lengthwise across my head with the club; the lick was not hard enough to knock me down, but I knew they would strike me again, and I fell, so that I could see who they were that came in. As I fell, they struck my wife with the club, and she fell across me; some more came in, I could not tell who they were. After they knocked my wife down, I said, "For God's sake, let my wife alone; she.is not in a fix to be abused; take me, but let her alone." They took hold of me and pulled me to the door. I had on a long night-shirt, and when they got me to the door they turned it over my head, and twisted it up around my head and arms. One took me by the shirt, and another by the legs and arms, and so they pulled me along; my wife started to come after me, and one man turned around and told her that if she came out and made any disturbance he would blow her damned brains out. Sho stopped at that; she knew the man who made the threat. Question. Who was he? Answer. William Tyson; they carried me out a piece, and laid me across a log; one hold of each arm, one hold of my head, anld one hold of my feet; then another took what I supposed to be a leather strap, and commenced whipping me. Question. Was it such a strap as they used to whip negroes with? Answer. I did not see it, and I do not know positively what it was; but afterwards there were two marks on my side that looked like the print of a buckle, and I thought it was a stirrup-leather that they took off one of their saddles. They told me that I was a witness in the United States court last winter against a white man, and in favor of negroes voting. I said I was not in evidence in any casein court, but that I was on the jury. They said that the jury was as bad or worse than being in evidence, because the jury took negro evidence right straight along in the whole court in preference to white men's evidence. From that they commenced beating me, and beat me a good while. They then asked if I had a negro girl staying with me. I said that my wife had sent and got one to stay with her while she was sick, but that she was not there then. They asked if I did not keep her, and I said no. They gave me ten licks more and then stopped whipping me. They asked me if I knew them, and I said that if they would take my shirt from over my head, I would probably know some of them. They asked me if I would prosecute them, and I said "I reckon not." They asked me if I knew 5 B

Page  66 66 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. my way home, and I said I did not. The man who had hold of my head then led me off eight or ten steps, took my shirt down from over my head, took me by the shoulder and turned me towards the house, and said that if I looked back he would kill me, and that if I commenced to prosecute them I would be killed. I intended to prosecute them; so I sold out my little place for what I could get, and came down here; I then reported to the marshal, and he told me to make my complaint to the commissioner, and I did so. The next week they arrested four of them. There were five that I did not know. Question. How many blows did they strike you in all? Alnswer. I cannot tell how many. Question.. Have you any idea whether there were fifty or a hundred, or more? Answer. I cannot tell how many; they must have struck me a hundred; from my thighs to the back of my neck blood was drawn from the skin all over. Question. How many different persons struck you? Answer. I think there was but one who did the whipping. Question. Do you know who it was? Answer. He spoke three times while he was whipping me, and from his voice I took him to be Jim Rich. Question. Who struck you the first blow in your chamber? Answer. James I. Johnson and Henry Swett came into my house. Question. Who struck your wife? Answer. Johnson had the club in his hand. Question. Had you children? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. How many? Answer. Three. Question. Where were they? Answer. There in the room. Question. How old is your oldest child? Answer. About eight or nine years old. Question. And the youngest? Answer. It was about a year and a half old at that time. Question. I infer from your language that your wife was pregnant at that time? Answer. She was. Question. How far advanced in pregnancy was she? A nswer. She was confined on the 8th of August, and that was on the 24th of June. Question. I understand that you had been a juror here at Jacksonville in the United States court? Answer. I had. Question. Grand or petit juror? Answer: I was on the petit jury of the district court. Question. How,long previous to this occurrence? Answer. The court was in session December and January, and this was in June afterwards. Question. What are your political associations? Answer. I am a republican. Question. So far as you know their politics, what were the men engaged in this maltreatment of you? Answer. They were democrats, all of them, that I know. Question. Did you ever afterwards go to the place where they whipped you and find it or recognize it? Answer. I did not. Question. Was it known in that community that you had been mistreated in this way? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. How did the people speak of it? Answer. I did not speak with but one or two of them about it; they seemed to hate it; they said they had no idea that any one had anything against me. Question. Where did these people that you recognized live? Answer. Johnson and Swett live within about two and a half miles of my house; Rich and Tyson live about twelve miles off. Question. You said that you intended to prosecute them; have you done so? Answer. I got out a warrant, and there were four of them arrested. One of the party has not been arrested yet. Question. Where did you get your warrant? Answer. In the United States court. Question. Why did you not prosecute them in the State court? Answer. I had seen an advertisement of the Ku-Klux bill of Congress, and I thought I would be nearer getting justice in the United States court. Question. Why could you not get justice before the State court? Answer. This Ku-Klux business, or regulating business, whatever they call it, has been going on here ever since the war, and even before the war, yet I have never seen

Page  67 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 67 anybody get justice in the State courts against them; they always bring up evidence to clear themselves. Question. Do you understand that they swear for each other? Answer. Yes, sir. Question, What is your knowledge, or reliable information, of the extent and strength of this Ku-Klux organization in Baker County? Answer. I do not know anything of the Klan whatever, only from their talk; almost every one you talk with out there is in favor of it. I do not know who belongs to it, or who do not, but they nearly all are in favor of it. Question. And they talk openly and publicly in favor of it? Answer. I do not know that they would to a stranger. Question. I mean in talking with each other there in the county? Ansvwer. Yes, sir; they talk with one another about such and such a man ought to be so and so; they call them regulators out there. They say that such and such a man should be regulated-something in that way; that is about all I have heard them say. Question. Have you heard of other cases of mistreatment? Answer. There were two other parties visited some five or six weeks before I was; it might have been a little longer, or not quite so long; I do not recollect what time it was. They were a man of the name of Smith, and a man of the name of Griffis. I never talked with either of them about it; but I understand that Griffis denied having been whipped, but Smith acknowledged that he was whipped. Question. Why were they whipped? Answver. I think they accused Smith of stealing; I think that was the excuse; I do not know certainly. Question. How in the case of Griffis? Answer. I did not hear any complaint against him. Question. Did they allege anything against you, except your attendance here as a juror? Answer. No, sir; except about the negro girl being there; they wanted to know if I kept her. Question. The one you had at your house as a servant? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You say none of these people have ever been punished by the law for any of their misdeeds, so far as you know? Answer. No, sir. By Mr. LANSING: Question. You say they complained of your attending here as a juror? Answer. They complained of my being in evidence. Question. As a witness? Answer. Yes, sir, against a white man and in favor of negroes voting; that was their charge. I said I was not in evidence in any case in court, but that I was on the jury. They said the jury, if anything, was worse than being a witness. Question. It was not for any particular verdict you had aided in finding, but that you had attended as a juror? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You spoke of having heard them say that such and such a man ought to be regulated. Have you heard them give any reasons why men should be regulated? Answer. Some of them would miss something, and look upon such a man as being the man who stole it, or something of that kind, the same as they did with Smith. A great many such people live there, people who would rather steal than work. Question. Did you ever hear given as a reason why anybody should be regulatedtheir political sentiments? Answer. No, sir; I never heard them say anything about politics. Question. Have you ever supposed that they sometimes manufactured these charges against persons for the purpose of having an excuse to raid upon them for political reasons? Answer. I have. Question. Do you think that is common? Answer. I do. Question. Do you know Smith? Answler. Yes, sir; I am not intimate with him, but I know him when I see him. Question. What do you think about the truthfulness of the charge they made against him? Ansiver. I never have followed it up to know whether he would do such a thing or not; I never lived close enough to him to find out. His brother worked for me, and I know him to be a working man. I do not see the necessity of his stealing, unless it is like some others who have it grown up in them. Question. Have you voted regularly?

Page  68 68 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Answer. I have not voted since the governor's election. Question. When was that? Answer. In 1868. Question. Why have you not voted? Answer. I was out of Baker County at the last election when they were voting for assemblymen and lieutenant governor; I was cutting cross-ties at the time. I could have gone and voted; all my hands went. Question. At your elections have republicans been interfered with and disturbed in their voting? Answler. Not where I have been. At the governor's election in 1868, in Putnam County, I was one of the registrars. Question. How is the vote in Baker County? Answer. It is about three-fourths white, and is democratic. Question. What is the proportion between the black and white population there? Answezr. I do not know the exact proportion, but there is a great deal of difference; the whites are the most. Question. How are the negroes in their political sentiments? AnswCer. Some few of them go with the democrats. Question. Are there any northern men in your county? Answer. No, sir. Question. Which generally has the majority at elections there, the democrats or the republicans? Answer. The democrats there. Question. How large a majority? Answer., They generally have about two-thirds majority in that neighborhood. Question. Have any of your colored people been disturbed in the exercise of their right to vote? Answer. None, that I know of. Question. Have any of them been whipped'that you know of, or have heard of? Answer. No, sir. One of these parties, Johnson, that I had arrested, I never believed belonged to the Ku-Klux Klan. I think he was duped into it that night. He is a man who loves to drink, and I think that from being with others and drinking he was duped into it that night. Question. For that particular occasion? Answler. Yes, sir. He has been here to see me since then. He was here two or three weeks ago, and wanted to know if he could be released if he would furnish evidence to convict several more men. I went with him to see Colonel Bisbee, the United States district attorney. He gave him to understand that if he would furnish evidence to convict several others he would probably release him, but he would wait and see what the evidence would be. His father told me-Jim Johnson would not talk to me much-that he was afraid to tell me, for if it got out there that he had, he could not live there until court. His father said that if they would take him as evidence his brother-in-law would be one, and that he was one of the Klan. In the Griffis case he refused to go, and they disbanded him. That is what Johnson's father told me. He said that if we got his brother-in-law, Mott, to come, he would swear to every man that belonged to the band. The marshal 6old me I had better tell you all these names that you might send for them. William Johnson saw the men riding backwards and forwards that same afternoon that I was taken out of the house, and John Mann was one of them. Question. Had you any quarrel with these parties you had arrested? Answer. No, sir. Question. There was no ill feeling between you? Answc)r. No, sir; Johnson and his father both used to visit my house frequently; his father never missed over three days at a time up to the last election. Up there in Baker County there was no clerk until a few days before the election, when there was a clerk appointed, and he sent deputies all over the county to register. A man by the name of Gurganis, a wealthy and influential man, came to my house on the Friday before the election on Tuesday. I was making preparations to build before election. He said that he proposed to register me, and wanted me to appoint a precinct at McLevy's still. I told him that I did not know that I would register. I said to him, " I have six negroes at work out here about one hundred and fifty or two hundred yards, will you go and register them?"' He said, " No; I will not get on my horse and ride over the country to register negroes.'" I said, " One of their votes is as good as mine." We stopped talking about the registering business, except he said, " Are you going to register?" I said to him, "Are you going to register the negroes?" He said, "No, I am not." I said, "Will you wait until they come here?" He said, "They can register at Sanderson." I said that they would every one go down there that afternoon and register. He went out and registered the hands I had; but from that day until the day I left neither one of the Johusons called to see me, except that the old man came there once.

Page  69 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 69 Question. What are the politics of the Johnsons? Answer. I have understood that they voted the democratic ticket at the last election. Old man Johnson was at work for me at the t ime digging a well, and a negro that I had hired was working there with him. After I went back where my other hands were at work, he told the negro that I did not treat Gurganis right. I have told you about all that passed between us. Question. Did he give any reason why you had not treated him right? Answer. No, sir; but I suppose it was because I talked so plainly to him. Question. Because you told him that a negro's vote was worth as much as yours? Answer. Yes, sir; I suppose so. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. Did you tell him anything more than that Answer. That is all I recollect telling him. Question. How many men came to your house? Answer. I could not tell how many came there. There were some four or five in the room. As I got to the door where they turned my shirt up over my head, some more gathered up around them there. Question. Did you say that all the men were disguised? Answer. I saw two only that I recognized as they came into my room; they had smut on their faces. Question. Who was the man that assaulted you and your wife? Answer. Johnson was the man who had the club in his hand and who struck me. Question. He is a man who drinks a great deal? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You say you believe he was induced to join that crowd because of his dissipated habits? Answer. I do not think that he has ever joined it, only for that one evening. Question. They put him forward to inflict the injury? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What is his occupation? Answer. He is a small farmer and works first for one man and then another. Question. He is a laboring man? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Is he a man of any character? Answer. I cannot say much as to his character. For the first year and a half I staid there I liked him very well; I had nothing against him. Question. He was working where he could? Answer. Yes, sir; he worked for me, and so did Swett and Rich work for me. Question. You think Johnson whipped you after they got you out? Answer. No, sir; I think Rich was the man who whipped me. Question. You say he had worked for you also? Answer. Yes, sir; about two weeks last October. Question. Does he labor now? Answer. No, sir; he farms altogether. Question. What work did you put him at? Answer. Cutting cross-ties. His father first spoke to me about it, and told me that his son was going to get married and wanted some clothes, and asked me if I could give him work enough to get some clothes. I said, " Yes; tell him to come on;" and he worked for me. Question. How many men did you cause to be arrested? Answer. There were four arrested. Question. Did you recognize them? Answer. I recognized two, and I swore to Rich's voice; my wife recognized the others. Question. You came here and made complaint to the marshal? Answer. Yes, sir. / Question. And then you gave your testimony before the commissioner under oath? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. The same testimony you have given us? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And a warrant was issued to the marshal and he arrested these men? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Had he any difficulty about it? Answer. No, sir; I do not know where Rich and Tyson live; I know the neighborhood, but do not know the house they live in. As luck would have it, a few days afterward, as I was walking down town here, I saw them, and I got the marshal to arrest them here. Question. Were they committed to prison? Answver. Yes, sir.

Page  70 70 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Question. And subsequently bailed? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And one of them has been to him to arrange about turning State's evidence? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. His name is Johnson? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. He proposes to inform on the others if he can be acquitted? Answer. He will not acknowledge that he is guilty, but he agrees to furnish evidence against the other parties. He is afraid to talk, and I do not blame him, for I know that if he was to tell anything and it should get out there he would not live until court. I think if he was brought before you or before the court he would tell a great deal more than he would tell me, for he is afraid to talk to me. His father said a great deal more about what his son would tell if he was put on the stand than his son ever said to me. Question. The United States attorney was willing to agree that if he should procure testimony to convict the rest, he himself should not be mblested? Answer. He did not tell him in plain words that he would release him, but he said that he would see what could be done. Question. Did he intimate to him that that would be the result? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You say the purpose for which this regulating is gotten up is to put down thieving and such like over the country? Answer. Yes, sir; I think that was one purpose. Question. When a man is reputed to be a thief, and the people all around him lose goods, and lay the thieving to him, you say they remark that such a man should be regulated? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Which means that the people should punish him without resort to law, by whipping him? Answer. Yes, sir. I was notified by the Ku-Klux, or I suppose it to be a Ku-Klux notice, when I was in Palatka. I was the only man in the county who took an interest in the election and electioneered for the republican ticket; I was the only man there that could take the oath. Question. You mean the iron-clad oath? Answer. Yes, sir. A great many voted the republican ticket, but they would not acknowledge it, or do anything for the ticket. It was just eight days after the election that I got up one morning and found a piece of paper lying just inside of my gate, informing me that if I remained there I was in danger. I went to the store and there was a negro man standing on the store steps with a gun in his hand. There was a great big notice on the store that they would give me twenty-four hours to leave town. Question. On your store? Answer. Yes, sir. It was signed K. K. K., and made up of little words cut out of papers just where they could find the word they wanted, and not in writing. After I got to my present place of residence I received a notice to leave in ten days; that was four or five months after I got there. I prepared myself, and did not keep it a secret either that I was ready for them. They did not bother me until they came on me the night I have spoken of. Question. I understood you to say that you knew of no other cases than those you have mentioned, of the man Smith being whipped, and the man Griffis, who was said to have been whipped but denied it? Answer. Yes, sir; that is all I know of. There was a little boy there, about eighteen or twenty years old, named Barber. The report says that they went there the night they came to my house, but he was not there. Question. You only heard that rumor? Answer. Yes, sir; that was all. This Barber was at Griffis's when they went there. Question. Did they assault him when they went to Griffis's place? Answer. He got out of the way and hid. Question. What was the charge against Griffis? Answer. I do not know. Question. You say the charge against Smith was thieving? Answer. Yes, sir. This boy Barber told me and my wife that he knew the parties who went to Griffis's place. Question. Were they the same persons who came to your place? Answer. He would not tell who they were. Question. You were on the United States jury here? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. How was it composed? Answer. I think that part of the time there were five colored men and seven white men, and sometimes half and half.

Page  71 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 71 Question. It was a mijed jury? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Are the juries here selected by the marshal? Answer. They were selected last year by the marshal and clerk of the court, who selected such men as they thought could take the juror's oath. Question. You saw those jurors? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Were there any of them democrats? Answer. I do not know the politics of any of them; nearly all were strangers to me; I knew two or three colored men, and I used to know Dr. Gordon. Question. Do you remember the juror's oath that you refer to? Answer. I do not recollect the words of it; the substance is that the person taking it has taken no part in the rebellion. Question. That he has aided or assisted nobody, directly or indirectly, in any way engaged in the rebellion? Answer. I think that is it. Question. And all those men were able to take the oath? Answer. When they went on a case the United States attorney would ask them if they could take the oath, and if any of them could not take it they would step one side, and others would take their places. Question. They excluded all who could not take the oath? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Where were you living during the war? Answer. The first year of the war, in 1861, I was living in Jacksonville; in May, I think, I went to Baker County, to Sanderson, eight miles from where I lived last year, and took charge of a place there for a man of the name of Brown, who was run off at that time for his political sentiments. He came here and got me to take charge of the place; I staid there during 1861; then the confederate congress passed a conscript law to take all between eighteen and thirty-five years of age, and that included me; I then went to a commissary depot, and got a contract to grind meal and flour for the government; I had a little steam-mill, and that kept me out of the service. Question. You were in that way in the employ of the Confederate States? Answer. I kept out of the service in that way. Question. You kept out of military service? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. At the same time you did grind food for the supply of their armies? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You were paid for that by them? Answer. I took toll, the same as I did from neighbors. Question. You took toll from the Confederate States government for the grain you ground for their troops? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Did you not think that you were in that way rendering assistance to support their armies? Answer. No, sir, I did not think so; I did that to save myself from going into the service. Question. I speak of the fact merely; I do not mean to question your motives, for every man, in my opinion, has a right to follow his conscience, and he is bound to do it if he is a good man. I am only speaking of the fact that you avoided military duty by performing this other duty; is that so? Answer. I guess it may have been assistance to them.' Question. You assisted them in that way; instead of going into the army of the confederate government you went into their employment in another way. grinding grain to supply their troops; is not that the fact? Answer. I did not voluntarily assist them. Question. Does the oath contain the word "voluntary?. Answer. I think it does. Question. Do you not know that it does not? Answer. No, sir; I do not know that. Question. I will not press you upon that point. Answer. I staid there in 1862; in the latter part of 1862 they passed another conscript act that included me again, and then I took an agency on the railroad from the president of the railroad, and there I staid until 1864, when General Seymour made his raid; when his troops fell back, I remained at Baldwin; when he was ready to go away, he asked me if I wanted to go, and I said no; that I was exempt from service according to the act of the confederate congress; he did not press me to go, but placed a guard around my house until he fell back; the next day after he fell back the confederate troops came around, and kept me under arrest for a while, and they then conscripted me, and asked me where I would go; I said that I would go to Virginia, and I went there and staid there just four weeks.

Page  72 72 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Question. You went into the army as a conscript? Answer. Yes, sir; but not in the lines. Question. You did not go into a battle anywhere? Answer. No, sir; I did not go into the lines at all; I volunteered to go on picket once, intending to go across to the other side, but I did not get across on account of the videttes shooting so; the second time that I went on picket I walked right across. Question. Where did you go then? Answer. I remaified in the North until the close of the war. Question. When you went on picket you went armed? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And when you got a chance you slipped over the line? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Did you take any oath, during the war, at all in regard to your duty to the Confederate States? Answer. No, sir. Question. You avoided that by the means you have mentioned? Answer. Yes, sir. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. At what time was it that you received this notice in Palatka? Alnswer. I forget the exact date now; I think the election was some time in May, 1868, but I forget the exact date. Question. At what time was the notice served on you after you went into Baker County? Answer. That was some five or six months after I went there, and I went there in October. Question. Was that notice signed K. K. K.? Answer. It was not signed at all. Question. I understand that the first time they conscripted you you kept out of the army Answer. They did not conscript me at all; as soon as the act was passed that made me liable to conscription, I went to work to keep out of it. Question. So it was you never rendered any military service? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You kept out of the army altogether? Answer. I did; I was with the army some three or four weeks in Virginia, but I performed no military duty; I remained with the wagons all the time. Question. And you took the first opportunity you could to get through th6 lines and break away? Answer. I did. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. You say you were out with the wagons? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Were you a teamster? Answer. No, sir. A captain and a major asked me to post their books; that was all I did; I did some writing for them. Question. In the commissary department? Answer. No, sir; I made out a pay-roll for them; that was the most I did; I copied it off for them. Question. You copied the payS-rolls for them? Answer. I just made them out for them. Question. What else did you do? Answer. I made out the pay-rolls and copied them on their books. Question. How often did you do that? Answer. Only once. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. I understand you to say that this was involuntary and against your will, and because you could not help it? Answer. Yes, sir. JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA, November 10, 1871. FLORIDA E. CONE sworn and examined. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. What is your age, where were you born, and where do you now reside Answer. I was twenty-seven years old last May-the 25th of May; I was born in Darien, McIntosh County, Georgia, and I now reside in Jacksonville.

Page  73 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 73 Question. Are you the wife of Mr. R. W. Cone? Answer. Yes, sir.'Question. He has told us in regard to a company of men who went to'your house and committed certain acts of violence in the early part of last summer; I wish you would give us an account of the transaction, so far as you saw it. Answer. Well, sir, it was between 10 and 11 o'clock at night; we had gone to bed and were asleep. The noise woke me up, and the first I knew there was a crowd of men in there. They knocked me down, gave me a kick on my head and one on my shoulder, and pulled my hair and tore it a great deal. Mr. Cone was begging them to let me alone, but they would not do it, but kept knocking me. They took me by both hands-I was then on my knees-and dragged me, I guess, a great deal further than the length of this table-dragged me by both hands. There were three or four who had hold of me, and they dragged me to the room door, and then let me loose and took hold of him. He had his night-shirt on, and they took that and turned it up over his head, and then carried him into the woods. That was the last I saw of him, until they turned him loose and he got back to the house. After they had let me loose and had taken him to the door and started off with him, one of them turned around and came back, and told me that if I followed them he would blow my damned brains out. I happened to know him. Question. Who was he? Answer. William Tyson. Question. Where does he live? Answer. I think he lived down on New River, about twelve or fifteen miles from where we were living. I knew the one who had hold of me and dragging me; he lives about seven or eight miles from where we lived. Question. What was his name? Answer. Kindred Griffis. They have never got hold of him yet; they have had the others up. Question. How long was your husband away from the house before he returned? Answer. I do not know exactly how long it was; I guess a half or three-quarters of an hour. Question. Did you hear anything while he was gone? Answer. I heard something like bushes cracking, like somebody stepping on bushes, and heard pistols fired off. I supposed it was a signal, or something, for them to gather together after they got through with him. Question. Did you ever go to the place where he had been whipped? Answer. No, sir; I have not. Question. How long did you afterward remain in that place? Answer. We left there on Wednesday morning, after the Saturday night that they came there. Question. In what condition was your husband's person after he had been whipped? Answer. Well, sir, his back was all raw; the skin was cut in but one or two places, but it was bruised from one end to the other; it was a perfect sight. Question. Could you form any idea of the number of blows he must have received? Answer. No, sir; his back was striped just as thick with stripes as it could be, forty or fifty, if not more. He was just covered, from his shoulders down, with stripes. One or two places on his side were cut with a buckle. I think it was a stirrup-leather they whipped him with. Question. How long before he recovered from the effects of it? Answer. I do not know exactly how long; there were some signs of it three or four weeks afterward. Question. Did you yourself suffer any inconvenience from their treatment? Answer. It did not actually lay me up in bed, but I was disabled to do my work as well as I ought to have done it. They dragged me about there, skinned me up a great deal, and made me pretty sore. The lick they gave me on the shoulder hurt me a great deal. Question. Were you in your night-dress? Answer. Yes, sir. Question.. Where were your little children? Answer. They were there. Question. Were they in bed with you? Answer. Some of them were with me and some were with him. It was very warm that night; they were scattered pretty well about; it was awfully warm that night. He had some of the children in bed with him, and I had some with me. Tlyey were all up at the time. I suppose the noise and my screaming together woke them up. Question. Was any effort made to prevent them from screaming? Answer. No, sir. After they got him to the door they gathered him up and carried him off, and did not bother me any more. Question. Had you any neighbors? Answer. Yes, sir.

Page  74 74 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Question. How far off did they live? Anrsuer. The nearest was about a quarter of a mile. Question. Did not your screams arouse the neighborhood? Answer. They heard them. I suppose they were afraid to come see, or they might have been in fiavor of this Klan. Question. No one came to your relief? Answer. No, sir. Question. Did the neighbors know anything about the treatment of your husband? Ansl-r. lHe showed his back to my father and one or two other neighbors. Qutcs8ion. Did the parties express any sympathy with him? Answer. Yes, sir; they seemed to be pretty sorry about it, but I do not know whether they were or not. Question. How far do you live from your father's place? Answer. Something less than a half a mile; I do not think it was quite a half a mile. I went up next morning and showed him the bruises on me, and Mr. Cone showed him his back. They gave Mr, Cone one lick on the forehead. Question. Did they break the skin? Answer. No, sir; only turned it black and blue. Question. Did you know the man who struck you? Answer. I knew one of them; this man Griffis struck me and had hold of me. He was one who helped to drag me to the door. Question. Why did you not bring a prosecution against these people for treating you in that way? Answer. I thought they ought to be punished. Question. Why did you not sue them in that county? Answer. I do not know; that was with Mr. Cone, I suppose; I suppose he thought it was best to do it here. Question. Had you been molested or mistreated, or had any unkindness been shown to you by any of your neighbors before that night? Answer. No; I do not think they had mistreated us in any way. They were all very friendly to us whenever we met them or passed them at any time. Question. Have you any idea why they treated you in that way that night? Answer. No, sir; I suppose my husband told you; I do not know what it was. Question. They gave no reason while in the house for their treatment? Answer. They did not speak in the house at all to me. After they got out of doors this fellow told me if I attempted to come after Mr. Cone he would blow my damned brains out. I did not go any further. I just stood in the door and screamed. I could not do anything for him. I could not leave my children by themselves; the fellow had his pistol in his hand. Question. Were they all armed? Answer. I do not know whether they were or not. I think some were. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. How many were there of them? Answer. I do not know how many. I think, from the looks of the crowd in the house, that there were some seven or eight there, and then there were a great many outside. Question. Did all of them have their faces smutted? Answer. I do not know whether they did or not; the two that I knew did. One of them was very dark, almost as black as a colored person, any way. You could hardly tell whether it was smut or the natural color; that is, a person who did not know him; I do not think they were disguised in any way. Question. This was last June? Answer. Yes, sir; on the 24th of June. They are a cruel set of people there. Question. These men have been arrested? Answer. All but one; Mr. Griffis they have not got yet. Question. Have they been brought down here to Jacksonville? Answer. Yes, sir; four of them. Question. Were they put in prison here? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Have they been discharged on bail? Answer. Yes, sir; I think underbonds to appear at court. Question. Has the grand jury been in session since you came here? Answer. I do not know. Question. You are waiting here to go before it? Answer. I suppose we will be brought before it. Question. You have made this same statement before the United States commissioner, have you not? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. The same statement you are making now?

Page  75 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 75 Answer. Yes. sir. Question. How long ago did you do that? Answer. We came down here on the Wednesday afterward, and on Friday two of them happened to come into town and we saw them, and Mr. Cone had them arrested, and on Saturday they were tried. On the next Monday there were two more arrestea. I do not know exactly what day of the month it was; we came in on a Wednesday. They are a mighty cruel set of people to treat anybody as they did me and Mr. Cone for nothing. Question. What kind of men are those that you recognized; what position do they hold in society? Answer. Well, the whole county there is not much; the people out there are not any very great people, sort of low-down characters. Question. Are these men of that character? Answer. Pretty much all of them. Question. Were any of them drinking men that you knew? Answer. I do not know of any that drank but one. Question. Who was that? Answer. Mr. Swett. Question. What did he do for a living? Answer. Anything he could get to do. Question. Just worked about? Answer. Yes, sir; most of them did that way.- Some of this same crowd Mr. Cone had had working for him about two months before this happened. Question. Working at day's labor? Answer. Mostly he would hire them by the month; he was cutting cross-ties. Question. They were laboring men who worked about the country for their living? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You say they were low-down people? Answer. I suppose they would be what people up there would consider respectable people, but I do not think so. Question. Are they all of that class? Answer. As a general thing; some of the people living up there are very respectable. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. Those men stood well among the people in that community? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And were received into their houses and treated with respecct? Answer. Yes, sir. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. Did oou ever see them received into any houses there and treated with respect? Answer. As much as they generally respect people out there. Question. Were you ever in houses with them; did you ever meet these men in society yourself in any way, among your neighbors and friends? Answer. I have seen them around there at neighbors' houses; they have been at our house, too; we have had them working for us. Question. As laboring men under your husband? Answer. Yes, sir; every one of the five had been working for him. JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA, November 10, 1871. M. L. STEARNS sworn and examined. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. Will you state your age, where you.were born, where you now reside, and what official position, if any, you hold in this State? Answer. I am thirty-two years of age; I was born in Lovell, in the State of Maine; I now reside at Quincy, Gadsden County; and I am speaker of the house of assembly in this State. Question. How long have you been living in the county? Answer. Since the first of May, 1866. Question. What is the relative population of your county as to blacks and whites? Answer. I think the voting-list stands about one thousand fourshundred colored and one thousand white. I ihink that is about the proportion. There are about four hundred majority of black voters. Question. What is the political complexion of the county? Answer. There is not much difference in the party votes; there are a few blacks who

Page  76 76 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. are democrats, and a few whites that are republicans. I think there is about four hundred majority of republican votes. Question. How have your elections been in that county as regards peace, quiet, and order? Answer. They have been very quiet until the last election. Question. When was that? Answer. In November last. Question. Was there any disturbance at that time? Answer. There was considerable. Question. What was the character of it? Answer. There was considerable disturbance at the precincts in Quirtcy. Before the election, parties came to me saying that many of the democrats were coming armed to the election, and they wanted those on the republican side to be armed. I told them that I did not think it should be done; that I did not think the democrats would come armed. Colonel Davidson, who was running as the candidate for senate on the democratic side, professed to be conciliatory; and I did not believe the democrats would go there armed, and I discouraged those on our side from doing so. But on the morning of the election, before daylight, several persons came to my house, and said that the democrats were coming into town armed. I got up, dressed myself, and went down town, and found that quite a large number had come there with arms, and had deposited them in different stores, and at different points around the court-house square. They appeared at the polls without any arms except pistols; there were a considerable number of pistols paraded there, belted around persons. In the forenoon the election went on very quietly. There were two polling places in town. By common consent, in the morning the blacks took one poll, and the whites another, although some of the blacks voted at the white poll, and some of the whites voted at the other poll. But the general division was a poll to those of each color. The blacks being much more numerous in that precinct than relatively in the whole county, they could not all vote at their polls. About 2 o'clock the whites had closed voting at the other poll, and then reformed the line, and held the poll, being rather quiet, but showing a disposition to hold the poll. Other parties seeing that the voting had ceased there, and that those who stood in the line were men who had voted, and boys who were not entitled to vote, began to crowd forward, in order to get a chance to vote there. When they did so, there was a pressure made by those in the line to keep them out. I called the attention of the inspectors to it, and they attempted to make some effort to clear the polls. I told them that all such efforts would be fruitless, without they called on the sheriff to do it. They wanted to know where the sheriff was, and one of the policemen started off to find him. He was up-stairs in the court-room above. The policeman found him, and the sheriff authorized him to go and clear the polls. He went to the head of the line, and ordered the poll to be cleared. Thereupon some one asked him what was the purpose of it, and he said that it was in order to allow the other men to vote who had not voted. Some one said that was not what they were going to permit, and then struck him over the head with a cane. Then a general row began. By the efforts of Colonel Davidson, the democratic candidate for the senate, and of myself, the thing was quieted after a time. I rushed down, got on the porch, and after some time we succeed in quelling it, without any pistols being fired, though there were several pistols pointed in every direction, and some bowieknives drawn. I must say that it is almost a mystery to me how it was stopped without bloodshed. It was a fearful sight; we made every effort to quiet it that we could. I was lifted up on the banisters, in order to see over the crowd, and I noticed several pistols pointed toward me. One man, who seemed to be in charge of the organization that stood in front of the polls-Mr. A. K. Allison, president of the Florida senate during the war, and acting governor of the State when Governor Milton committed suicide just before the war-rushed out, and called to those about him to shoot me down. He was very much excited. But both sides seemed to have got about enough of it; that is, they seemed to have been afraid of what might come; and finally they fell back, and left an open space between me and him. He jumped up and down, and cursed furiously, and called upon them to shoot me down and not allow me to speak. But Colonel Davidson called out to them to listen to me, and they did stop and listen, and then both parties gradually fell back a little. By that time the sheriff had rushed in with his police, and after awhile succeeded in clearing the poll. It was nearly sundown by that time, and there were only about fifteen who voted at that poll after it was cleared. The tumult lasted nearly two hours. The object of it evidently was, knowing that we could not all vote at the other poll, to prevent as many as possible from voting, knowing that the polls, by law, had to be closed at sundown. The result was that about two hundred or three hundred were standing in line with tickets in their hands at the time the polls closed; and our majority was reduced in that county from four hundred to sixteen. It seemed to be an organizedeffort throughout to prevent as many as possible from voting. Question. Did they seem to be acting in concert and under discipline?

Page  77 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 77 Answer. They were entirely in concert, so thoroughly so that in organizing as they did there was very little disturbance about it. I heard Allison call out to them to stand in line; and generally there was not much stir in forming the line. There seemed to be a perfect understanding on their part. Question. What became of the arms that they brought in? Answer. They were left in the different buildings there, and when the difficulty commenced several men ran for arms, and came out with both arms full, some with a dozen or fifteen muskets each in their arms. Three or four ran for arms; but by the time they got on the ground there was quite a lull in the matter, and they were not used. Question. On what side would those men have voted who were prevented from voting? Answer. They were universally republicans. Question. Did you know of any democrat who was prevented from voting? Answer. Not one. Question. How many votes were polled at those two places? Answer. I think about five hundred each. Question. What was going on at the other poll? Answer. This difficulty broke them up entirely; that is, the inspectors all rushed out; it was a general disturbance. Question. It interfered with the process of voting at that poll? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Have there been any proceedings taken against any of those parties in order to punish them? Ansvcer. Mr. Allison and one or two others have been indicted, I think. Question. Was Allison the man who struck the policeman? Answer. No, sir. But the man who struck the policeman was indicted. I think he has run away; I have not seen him since; and I do not know that he has been yet arrested. I understand he is about the country somewhere. Question. Why has he not been arrested? Answer. I cannot say; I know the marshal was making efforts to arrest him for some time afterward. Since then I have not seen him; he is away in the woods, perhaps in the county below, the adjoining county. Question. Have you had any organization of people in your county that are popularly known as Ku-Klux? Answer. I cannot say, except from some information which leads me to think there is some organization there, or some general understanding among some of them. Question. Have there been any demonstrations there such as are said to have occurred in other portions of the country? Answer. There has been no killing and no whipping. Question. How has it been in the adjoining counties? Answer. In the county west, Jackson County, there has been a great deal of it. Peo. ple from there, and men who have been over there, represent it as in a very bad state. Question. Have yotu any information of a character that you deem reliable, as to what has been done there? Answer. Yes, sir; I have such information as I deem reliable. Question. In what form is it? Answer. It is reliable information, entirely satisfactory to me. I have seen a great many parties from there who have described the condition of affairs there, men who in my opinion were entirely reliable. I saw a few days ago a man who lives in our county on the Apalachicola River, which separates the two counties, and I inquired ot him in regard to a matter that had occurred there, where some parties came down on the opposite side of the river, called to a black man in his employ, who was running a ferry across at that point, to get his boat and set them across. When he landed on the other side he was shot with buckshot, and his body fell out of the boat on the shore; he seems to have been shot while in the act of stepping from the boat on shore, for one leg remained in the boat. I inquired of this man about that affair, and he gave me a full description of it. He said it occurred at about 12 o'clock, noon, and that none of tie parties had been arrested for it. He further told me that there were two other men shot right in the neighborhood, on the other side of the river, one the night before, and the other a day or two following. He said that there were three men shot right along there in three or four days. Question. Was your informant one of the men shot? Answer. No, sir. Question. Was this ferryman shot dead? Answier. Yes, sir. The other two men were wounded, and are recovering. Question. Were they white men or colored? Answer. They were all colored. Question. Did you understand that there was any reason for the attack upon them? Answer. No, sir; I could not ascertain any cause for it.

Page  78 78 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Question. Have there, so far as you know, been any other acts of violence in the county? Answer. There has been a great deal of killing there. Two clerks of the county have been killed. Question. Who were they, and when were they killed? Answer. The first one, Dr. Finlayson, was killed in March, 1869, I think. He was shot on the street; and Major Purman, State senator from that county, was in company with him and was himself shot through the neck at the time. They were walking arm in arm, and Finlayson was not quite so tall as Purman. The shot struck Purman in the neck and Finlayson in the temple. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. Was it the same shot? Answer. So I understand. Question. Who fired the shot? Answer. Parties unknown to me. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. Have there been any other killings in that county? Answer. A great many murders occurred right along after that. A merchant by the name of Fleischman was taken from his home at night and carried across the Alabama line and told never to return. He passed up through Georgia and came back to thetown of Tallahassee, and started west from Tallahassee; and on his way, within about twelve miles of Marianna, he was killed. Question. Is Marianna in Jackson County? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. By whom was he killed? Answer. By parties unknown to me. Last April the clerk who succeeded Dr. Finlayson, a man by the name of J. Q. Dickinson, was killed. Question. By whom was he killed? Answer. I could not say. I have a manuscript statement, in his hand-writing, of difficulties that occurred there, which statement was found among his papers after his death and handed to me. By Mr. SCOFIELD: Question. What is that statement? Answer. A brief history of the murders and assassinations which occurred there in about one month. [The statement referred to is as follows: "Memoranda of occurrences relating to the assassinations in Jackson County, September 28, 1869, and following.' Wyatt Young, Calvin Rogers, Washington Rivers, and about twenty-three women and children went from Marianna to Robinson Spring to attend a picnic on the 28th September. At about 9 o'clock a. m., about three miles from town, t~hey were fired upon from the roadside with about fifteen shots. Wyatt Young and Stewart Livingston were killed, the latter a boy about two years old. That evening and night a crowd of about thirty in all repaired to the spot; an inquest was summoned and organized, and after a little a track was found of a buggy, which was suspicious, and the inquest adjourned and followed the track to Greenwood. Arrived home at Marianna without eftecting anything about the track. Next morning it was impossible to call together the same jury and another new one was formed, which sat until 5 p. m. on Friday, October 1, when a verdict of'shot by unknown,' &c. was reached. The investigation was thorough but fruitless. Meantime, at dusk of evening, on Wednesday the 29th, as Columbus Sullivan and George Cox were hauling home a load of cotton, some one fired a load of shot at them, hitting Sullivan in the face and arm and Cox on the arm. No clew. This is about nine miles in the country from Marianna. "Friday night the 1st of October, about four or five hours after the result of the inquest was known, Maggie McClellan and her father, James F. McClellan, were shot at from the sidewalk in front of the hotel. They were sitting on the piazza with friends. Maggie was killed and her father badly wounded. Nest morning, Saturday, early, I went to the hotel and found a guard there, and they had three negroes in charge: Pizano Widgrow, the names of others not known. One of them asked me if he could be released. I told him to wait for an inquest. I immediately went and wrote a summons for an inquest, and seeing Calvin Rogers, constable, told him to be ready to serve it after breakfast. (Before this, however, I had met Peter Lawrence and John Milton, who told me they had found exactly who was the guilty party, but did not seem disposed to tell who it was. I shortly met Colonel J. P. Coker and said to him that I understood there was strong suspicion as to who did the deed, and recom

Page  79 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 79 mended a warrant for him whoever it was. I also stated that it was perfectly proper to stop him if there was danger of his escape. No one seemed to be willing to communicate with me. Coker made no answer, except to say that he was not aware what Colonel McClellan's plans were.) "When I had written out the summons I left my office, and came down toward Alderman's store, when I saw William Coker in earnest conversation; as I passed he said:' Come on; I'd as soon lose my life now as any time! He then went up town very fast, and came back within two minutes with William R. Daffin, both commencing to run after they had passed Alderman's store. I also saw John T. Myrick and some others, all armed with guns, moving in the same direction toward the park. Some went into the park, some on the left, and, I think, some on the right, near Coker's store. At about that time I heard a call of Come on, boys,' in quite a loud tone down in that direction, and they went out of my sight toward White's store. Thinking this might mean some excitement or other, I went along that way at a quiet pace at first, but quickened as I realized now that it was some kind of a row. I met Richard Poone, J. J. Culpepper, Mr. Bonfoot, and a Mr. Dykes between White's and Alderman's, each of whom, I think, told me,'they are trying to kill Calvin,' or words to that effect; shortly after I arrived at nmy boarding place, (Dr. Theo. West's), the party was returning. I remember seeing J. P. Coker, P. P. Lawrence, John Milton, and others; I stepped out to the street, and said:'What is the row? I hope, gentlemen, you will not be too hasty, but will get out a warrant.' (Up to this time no one had seen fit to tell me that Calvin was the guilty one, though I, of course, had before this apprehended that it was for the murder they were trying to kill him.) Coker stopped, and the whole party, and he, in great excitement and anger, said:' What right have you, sir, to say that? You, who this morning recommended me to stop the murdeere without a warrant!' I corrected him, saying, that my recommend was to have a warrant, but not to let the man escape for want of it; but that I recommended no murder, and that the law should be followed. (I will say here that I do not understand that any effort was made to stop him, but only to kill him, or make him run.) Croker then abused me in very high and very low terms. When he spoke of the outrage having been committed by a set of men under my control, I stopped him, and told him not to impute anything of that nature to me. He then jumped toward me, and in the most insolent, manner said:'Now, sir, say what you have to say!' Iis men, to the number of six or seven, ranged themselves about with their guns at a ready. I answered that I had said what I proposed to say, and that if I found a chance ever to stop bloodshed, either on myself, or him, or any other man, I should not keep silent. Once during the conversation he said:' We don't care a damned what you think or what you say.' I went up town directly after, and found everything in wild excitement. The young men were drunk and desperate, and the elder and better men were afraid, and kept mostly out of sight. This, too, was true earlier in the morning. I found directly that it was talked of all night and all the morning, and to me it was an evident'arrangement (possibly tacit) to keep in and let the wild boys kill Calvin Rogers. I urged on every one I talked with to take out a warrant for him; but they delayed for hours. Presently W. D. Barnes came in; and I think it is owing mostly to his advice that the warrant was got out about half past 12 o'clock p. m. "Meanwhile, about,9 o'clock, I judge, or a little earlier, E. S. Alderman, John T. Myrick, William Coker, and a man by the name of Dykes, or Simmons, forced Oscar Granberry and Matt Nickels to go out with them to hunt Calvin. They complained that they had no arms, but they were told that they would need none. They took them out a little way (about two miles) when they directed them to march ahead, which they did. I Immediately some one shot Oscar, and Matt ran for life and escaped. J. F. E. McKay, with a party of five or six horsemen, went out to examine the body and reported it to me, I judge, about 1 o'clock p. m. I had, however, heard of it indirectly before. J. F. McClellan, A. H. Bush, J. P. Coker, and W. D. Barnes, and W. E. Anderson recommended that I should not hold an inquest. They gave different reasons. I also, from other sources, obtained unmistakable information that the crowd would not allow an inquest. I deferred, partly because it was totally impossible for me to find a single man that dared to serve the summons, or would do it. "I staid on the street all day, though Colonel McClellan and Judge Bush earnestly advised me not to do so. There was much danger of a riot before noon. Some kind of an organization was attempted, and, I judge, concluded that day, though I could not obtain any information. Everybody kept aloof, and no one consulted me. I made an effort to keep the merchants from selling whisky, but could not succeed in every case. Drunkenness and misrule and excitement abounded. "Sunday.-I protested to Colonel Coker, Barnes, Calhoun, and Bush that an inquest should be held over the body of Miss McClellan, and they insisted that it should not. Mr. Barnes said I could exercise my judgment about the Granberry case, but that Colonel McClellan would not hear of an inquest in his daughter's case. I received direct threats from the mob that I should not be allowed to hold the Granberry in

Page  80 80 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUT1-ERN STATES. quest. In fact, the determination was general not to submit to an inquest. I could not find a man to serve the summons, or I should have held one. As it was, I postponed them indefinlitely, till the excitement was over. Watts gave me information on this point at dinner. " During the previous night some of the boys of town went to the house of William Bryan and ordered him out instanter. He wanted to put on his clothes. They told him to hurry up, as he would not have much use for clothes. He took this as his death warrant, and jumped out of the back window and ran. They fired at him, and he was found the next day at Jessa Bush's badly wounded in the foot. He had to crawl a quarter of a mile. " Monday night.-Some parties, headed by Chartain, went to Henry Reed's and called him out. He would not come. They insisted. He locked the door, which he had at first opened, and, with his wife and son, jumped out of the window and ran. They got sight of the son and fired on him. Henry escaped and ran under Mrs. Ely's house. They came there to search, but failed to get him. "' Tuesday.-Murder of some negro on H. Bryan's plantation. [Not murdered. He is still alive, October 12th. His name is Jerry Pridgeon.] " Tuesday night.-Jack Myrick and others went to the house of Bob Dickens to find him, but he was gone. They also went to Mr. Davis's, but could not find him. [Tuesday night, I think, Dan Bryan came to town, and was imprisoned till morning.] " ednesday.-McNealy, J. P., came to town. "Wednesday night.-E. S. Alderman and Ep Butler, and at least one more, (name unknown,) went to Richard Pooser's house, and obliged him to come out. They ordered him to march down the street (leading out of town.) He ran. A double-barreled gun was fired after him, and a pistol. He escaped, hiding under Dr. West's dining-'room. "Thursday noon.-A meeting of the white citizens was held. For proceedings see other sources. "' In this meeting, Barnes, Milton, and McLeon favored peace on all sides, and especially deprecated drunkenness and abuse of power. Coker answered indignantly, protesting that it was not the object to abuse our young men who had taken a little too much, or had acted a little irregularly. "I forgot to state on Monday, the 4th, that a meeting was held in Judge Burk's office of the lovers of peace of both colors. It was very thinly attended. Mr. Colloway and Godwin met me on the street, just as they were going to the meeting, or I should not have known of it. They said it was thought best not to have rte attend the meeting, but if I was wanted I would be sent for. I was not sent for. Also I forgot to state that on Tuesday night, about 9 or 10 o'clock, Samuel Fleischman was carried off. For particulars see elsewhere. "Thursday afternoon.-William Coker, E. S. Alderman, Jack Myrick drove Matt Nickels and Maria, his wife, and Matt, jr., his son, away from their home to a lime sink half a mile away, and killed them. Richard Barrett and Riley Dykes, I think, found the bodies. Their daughter is the witness. Thursday night the same parties came in from the scene of the murder, and reported that they saw Calvin Rogers and twenty or twenty-eight men. The town was alarmed, and slept on its arms.. This murder is popularly believed to have been to cover up the murder of Oscar Granberry. " Friday.-Another meeting of the colored citizens, with just a few whites to maneuver it. No particulars of its operations as yet. McNealey, justice of the peace, issued warrants for the murders of yesterday, or.rather it is so reputed. Anderson and Alderman came to see me about it. Jack Myrick given up by his bondsman, and before he was received he stole the bonds and left. Joe. Bowers has one of the original warrants to take him. Quite an excitement. Two parties, " M." and "A.," warned me of certain danger, which I shunned. One of them offered me his house. "Saturday.-Myrick, Coker, and Alderman missing. Held inquest on their bodies. Received letter unsigned from C. Showed it to M. and McN. before reading. Wrote a letter and delivered it to M. " Sunday.-All quiet. Heard rumors were afloat that I had communicated with Calvin Rogers; that I had him in the clerk's office, &c., &c. Went with Milton to the office; found the office well guarded by Calhoun, Anderson, Shavit, and others. Charles Ely came in and wanted water, which I told him he would find all right in the back room, only I had no dipper-big thing! "M onday, October 11.-Talked the truth to Milton and McNealy, as also to McLeon and Barns. Joined the two first in letter to the governor, having written a long detailed history of the whole affair earlier in the day. In the joint letter we expressed confidence that law could now assert itself; that we needed no military, and were anxious for a sheriff. " Casualties to date.-Whites: killed, Maggie McC; wounded, Colonel McC. and Sullivan; total,:. Colored: killed, Wyatt Young, Stewart Livingston, Oscar Graubury, Matt Nickels, jr., Maria Nickels, and one name unknown, on H. G. Bryan's plantation; wounded, Calvin Rogers and William Bryan; total, 9.

Page  81 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 81 "Was just closing our joint letter to the governor when I heard of a dead man lying in the road out toward McNealy's-said to be a white man. Made inquiry, and concluded to send the letter, notwithstanding this awful and telling contradiction. Broke open the private letter and mentioned it then. Sat up late; somebody at my windows about 12 m. " Tuesday morning.-Learned that the man killed yesterday was Samuel Fleishman: verdict of jury, "Killed by unknown, &c." He was walking from Chattahoochee and was killed near Marshal Warren's. Louis Gamble saw Fleishman in Bainbridge, and he told him he would go to Quincy and return here in a few days. Parties went out from Marianna armed that morning. Warned not to go out and get the body, and warned that Jack Myrick was on my track. " Tednesday nmorning.-Fleishman buried. Wrote to governor of the particulars, also recommended putting off election and discussed martial-law business. Inclosed affidavits of Fleischuan. Lowe left October 19, Tuesday. Troops arrived Tuesday October 26. West arrived Thursday, October 14. " Saturday night, October 23.-George Harvey's and Alex. Bell's house shot into. "Slnday night.-Adeline Failey's house broken into. Lucy Griffin attacked three times on the street and frightened. " Henry Kincey arrested in Alabama, brought back to Irvin's Mill Creek and shot by Greenwood rowdies; not known whether he escapld. " Gnard made unusual demonstrations the night the sheriff arrived, and at night the soldiers came. " Charles Ely told Mose that a crowd had determined to kill the Nickels girl, and that he must not be in the way. "John R. Ely and Seaton A. Calhoun told Richard Pooser and other negroes that they had got to vote right hereafter or they would make them do so; that Hamilton and Purman should not return; that they had the upper hand and meant to keep it. "Mrs. Widgeon and J. L. Robinson said they thought the Robinson negroes would learn now that it was not best to aid in arresting a white iman. "Alfred w as attacked at night twice by Kilbee and company. "Coker says any one that gets $5,000 for his son won't be benefited much by it. John Ely, Anderson, Merritt, and others say Purman shall not come back here. Ely says they ought to have been hung. " Togg says he will shoot Calvin on sight. The people here pretend to believe that I know of Calvin's whereabouts. " October 23.-Sheriff West and Harris went to A. B. Hamilton's and stopped to inquire the way. The woman begged them not to kill her; said she was frightened, and said, " I don't know, master, but you'll kill me before you leave here." " October 29.-West and Harris went to the supper at Davis's at night. Harris got drunk completely. Coker, as usual, took the opportunity to abuse and menace West. He damned Hamilton and Purman, Lowe and I and any man that would take an office to' boot-lick' these fellows; that he had gone once to kill H. and P.; had hailed them but they would not stop; that he went to H.'s office once with the full intention of killing him, or getting William's pistol. " Saturday night, October 2.-William Coker, John Milton, Jim. Robinson, William Robinson, - Lawrence, and others, to the amount of twenty-five, came to James Hall's house and took away his pistol and gun, and carried him away by violence, and threatened him variously. Hall lives about seven miles from town. Hall wants me to write to Hamilton to inquire as to the bounty due his wife from her former husband."] By the CHAIRMAN: Question. I see here with this statement of Mr. Dickinson what purports to be an affidavit made by Samuel Fleishman before Mr. J. Q. Dickinson, as a justice of the peace for Jackson County. Have you read that affidavit? Answer. I read it soon after it was made; I have not read it lately. Question. It bears date October 5, 1869, and of course it was before Mr. Fleishman was killed? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. How long after that he was killed? Answe'. That affidavit was Tmade just before he was killed, about the time he was taken from the county and carried across the Alabama line. Question. Have you examined this indorsement on the back of it? Answer. I have not. Question. The indorsement reads as follows: "We, the grand jury, have examined diligently into the within case, and cannot find it a case of kidnapping. "J. WIDGEON, Foreman. " DECEMBER 22, 1869." Question. Do you know anything about that? Answer. No, sir. 6 G

Page  82 82 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. [The following is the affidavit referred to: "STATE OF FLORIDA, Jackson County: " Before me, J. Q. Dickinson, a justice of the peace in and for the said county, personally came Samuel Fleishman, a citizen of said county and State, who, being duly sworn, says that on yesterday, the 4th day of October, A. D. 1869, about 4 o'clock p. m., or a little later, I was visited upon by Arthur A. Calhoun and John R. Ely, at my boardingplace in Marianna, in said county, and Ely informed me that James P. Coker, William D. Barnes, and John R. Ely wished to see me at the store of James P. Coker, on particular business. I immediately repaired there. I waited there, in company with John R. Ely and James P. Coker, till nearly dark, when Coker told me that as Barnes had failed to come I need not wait longer, and asked me if I would come up again the next morning. I again went there this morning, and found several persons of influence in the county assembled. I was presently invited into the store, where were assembled, apparently in some organized meeting, the following persons that I know, citizens of this county: Arthur A. Calhoun, John R. Ely, James P. Coker, William Robinson, J. M. Drulnmonds, Thomas M. Clark, Charles Ely, James A. Chastain, WTilbur F. Jenkins, andl about ttwenty others, Ijudge. Thomas M. Clark informed me of the general object of the meeting, while we were waiting outside. James P. Coker and others stated to me that they represented a committee Fat represented the whole colmmwnity, and that it was the general desire of the community that I should leave for the good of said community; that they were confident that if I remained I should be killed on account of certain expressions made by me, as alleged, on Tuesday last; that if I were killed they feared twenty or thirty others might be killed on account of it, and to save bloodshed I ought to leave. I refused, and stated that my business was such that it would damage me twenty thousand dollars. They gave me at first two hours to arrange my business to get out of town; afterwards till 5 o'clock p. m.; afterwards till sundown. I told them if I had committed a crime I was willing to be tried and punished for it, but that it was impossible to arrange my business to leave before January 1, 1870; that I would rather die than leave. They informed me they would take me off at sundown, willing or unwilling. They stated that they had no desire to take my life, but, on the contrary, wished to save it, and to do the best thing they could for the safety of the community. They then dismissed me, saying I could go and attend to my business until sundown, at which time they should come after me, and take me away. I appeal to you as the only officer of the law in the town that I know of, and solemnly protest against the outrage threatened. "SAMUEL FLEISHMAN. "Sworn to and subscribed before me this 5th day of October, A. D. 1869, at 1 o'clock p. m. [SEAL.] "J. Q. DICKINSON, "Ju'stice of the Peace. "We, the grand jury, have examined diligently into the within case, and cannot find it a case of kidnapping. " J. WIDGEON, " Foreman. " December 22, 1869. " STATE OF FLORIDA, Jackson Coulnty: "Before me personally came Samuel Fleishman, who, being duly sworn, says that James P. Coker, on Sunday, the 3d of October, came to the store of Altman & B lo., in Marianna, of which firm I am the authorized agent, and asked for all the guns and pistols I had in the store. He said they were wanted for the men in defense of the town during the present excitement, and that they should all be returned, and that he would be responsible for their return. He took five guns worth $20 each, and three guns worth $25 each. Eleven pistols worth $18 each. Powder, shot, and caps worth about $20. The key was delivered up to the said James P. Coker by Wilbur F. Jenkins, who was acting as my clerk. There was about $11,000 or $12,000 worth of goods in the store at the time, and I have removed nothing since. "SAMUEL FLEISHMAN. "Sworn to and subscribed before me this 5th day of October, A. D. 1869, at five minutes past 4 o'clock p. m. [SEAL.] "J. Q. DICKINSON, "Justice of the Peace."] Question. Where did you obtain these papers? Answer. They were sent to me by Colonel Martin, of Chattahoochee, who went after the body, and brought it back with his papers; and these were among his papers.

Page  83 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 83 His body was brought here to this place, and funeral services were held; and then his friends took the body North. Question. The papers were found in the shape in which they now are? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. This affidavit of Mr. Fleischman was found with the other papers? Anlswer. Yes, sir. Question. Have you examined these papers lately? Answer I have not. Question. Have you investigated the cases referred to in them? Answer. Only so far as to satisfy myself to what they referred. I had knowledge of all these affairs from Captain Dickinson himself; before his death, consequently they were not new to me; it was only that they were in the form of a memorandum by him. Qucestton. How many different cases does he cite there? Ansicer. I could not state positively, now. Question. Is the statement in his handwriting? AnswerT. Yes, sir. Qucstion. As well as the affidavit of Fleischman? Answ'er'. Yes. sir. Qutwstion. Have you other information of a reliable character that would corroborate these statements? Ansu cr. From information gathered from other parties, I am satisfied that all these cases occurred, and even more than these. You will find that these extend over only about one month of the period of terrorism in that county. I would rather leave this statement to speak for itself, than to restate the occurrences from what I have heard. Question. Did that state of things continue after the date of that paper, or had it existed for any time previous? Answe'r. That is about the beginning; it was in September and October. The serious difficulties in that county commenced with the shooting of Finlayson, the clerk of the court, in March, 1869. From that time to the present there has been a very bad state of affairs there. Qtestion. Is the organization known as Ku-Klux understood to exist in that county? Answer. It is denied by some parties, and asserted by others. Question. Were these acts committed by bands in disguise and at night? Answer. There have been bands in disguise there, but at the time these acts were committed they were committed openly. Question. Has anybody been punished in that county for any of these acts of violence? Answer. I think not; not to my knowledge. Question. Has any attempt been made to punish them? Answer. Well, no, sir; I do not know of any. Question. Why is that? Answer. I do not think there are any men there who dare to take -it up. I have asked parties why it was not done, and they say that it was impossible; that they can raise one hundred and fifty of the best armed men of the country at any moment there to resist any process; that is what they informed me. QuestioTn. State whether, in your opinion, there is this organization in the State and extending through the State, and what are your reasons for thinking so, if that is your opinion. Ansiwcr. I think that there is an organization extending pretty much over the whole State, more violent in some portions of the State than in others, just according to the controlling influence over it; according to whether they are desperate men who control it, or men of moderate views. That is my full conviction. My reasons for thinking so are observations and remarks that are continually dropped about. It is no unusual thing to hear threats all about us, even in counties where we have had no open outbreaks; threats of the most violent character. In Calhoun County, just a week or ten days before Captain Dickinson was killed in an adjoining county, a member of the legislat-ire was killed. Question. Who was he? A'nswer. James Yerty. He was shot while riding along the road; shot from an ambush and killed dead. The man who killed him was seen; he was killed by one Luke Lot, who is now said to be in Jackson County. I am very reliably informed that he has been in Jackson County ever since this murder, the latter part of last March, soon after the legislature adjourned. He has been fitted out with arms and equipments, and rides a very fine horse around the county. There are continual expressions throughout Middle Florida by men who approve of these things to this extent: They say they would give him the best horse on their plantations, if he needed it, to aid him in his operations. Question. Why would they give him that assistance? AnSiver. They give no reasons particularly, more than their approval of his killing

Page  84 84 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. this man. It was rumored that he killed Dickinson; that he was the one who fired the shot. Question. Why do they approve of his killing Yerty; what had Yerty done? Jlaswer. They simply allege that he ought to have been killed. Question. Do they allege anything against him except that he was a republican? Answler. In speaking about it, I understand that they say they would give him the best horse they had for his operations. Question. Do they assign any reason why they approve it; why this map ought to be killed, or lwhy the other man ought to have killed him? Anlser. They assign the reason that he was a republican; that is the only reason I have heard. Qu2estion. Do they intimate that all republicans ought to be killed? Answerl. Yes, sir; that expression is frequent. Question. Is that the term they use in speaking of the members of the republican party; do they call them republicans? A1N'swer. Yes, sir. ()Qstion.. Is the term "radical" used at all? Jnswle. Yes, sir; that is frequently used. I thought you referred to their manner of speaking of republicans. " Radical" is a term more frequently used than "republican." Question. State whether you think that this organization which you have supposed exists throughout the State has a political significance; and, if so, state why you think so. Answer. I think it is based entirely upon politics; I have the same reasons for so thinking that I have in regard to the other statement I have made-that is, the expressions used; whenever it is put in operation it is against republicans; the murders where men have been killed have been universally republicans, excepting in cases of personal difficulty. Take the outrages where there is no assignable cause for them, and they are always inflicted upon republicans. And then these expressions are always used in regard to them. Question. What was the character of Mr. Dickinson? Answer. He was a man of very noble and high character. Question. Had you any opportunity of knowing his character and the estimation in which he was held by the people? Answer. Yes, sir; I was very intimate with him. Question. How was he regarded after his death? Answer. There was every honor paid to his remains that could have been paid to any man. There was a great ovation paid him through the State, along the whole line of railway, when his remains were carried through. There were thousands of people at the depot at Tallahassee when his remains passed through there; they were there with boquets without number. One of the most beautiful sights I ever saw I witnessed there when they showered those boquets upon his coffin. Everybody seemed to come there with the idea of decorating his coffin with a boquet. Question. Under what circumstances was he killed? Answer. He had been at the court-house that night with the county judge to draw a jury. \He was engaged in drawing the jury until about 10 o'clock, when he started to go go home. I think his house was about three or four blocks from the court-house. In passing to his house he had to cross a vacant square, a space of ground reserved there, I think, as a park. I-e was shot while crossing this park from behind a fence in the yard of a vacant house, Dr. West's house. Question. Was any one with him? Answer. He was alone. He was killed within a few yards of where the other clerk had been shot crossing that same square. By Mr. BAYARD:, Question. Was that in the day-time or in the night-time? Ansier. It was about 10 o'clock at night. Question. How long had Captain Dickinson lived in Florida? Ansuwer. I first made his acquaintance in 1868; he was then living in West Florida, and I think had been there from the close of the war. Question. Where was he from? A4nswer. He was a native of Vermont. Question. You have called him captain; was he a captain in the Army? Answer. So I understand. Question. He came here after the war? Answcer. I understood so. Question. What office did he hold at the time he was killed? Answer. He was county clerk of that county. Question. How are your county officers appointed here? Answer. By the governor. Question. Does he appoint your sheriffs?

Page  85 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 85 Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Does he appoint your county commissioners? Answver. Yes, sir. Question. Who was the governor that appointed Captain D'kinson Answer. Governor Reed. Question. The present governor? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Under your constitution the governor has the appointment of all the count) officers you have described-the sheriffs, county clerks, commissioners, &c.? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Who appoints your judges? Answer. They are appointed by the governor. Question. He has the control of the appointment of all those officers I have nar:'l. Answer. Yes, sir; by and with the advice and consent of the senate. Question. Are all the officers nominated by him, or does he appoint any of thiem (i rectly, without the concurrence of the senate? Answeer. There are officers whose appointment does not require the concurrent atctio of the senate; the county commissioners do not. Question. Do the sheriffs require it? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And the judges? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And the clerks? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. The county commissioners he appoints upon his own motion, without tle concurrence of the senate? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Are there any other officers of your county government than those you have named? Answer. There are the justices of the peace. Question. Who appoints them? Answer. The governor. Question. Do they require any confirmation by the senate? Answer. No, sir. Question. Has he the power to remove officers for misbehavior in office? Answer. Yes, sir; all those not confirmed by the senate. Question. It was in Jackson County that these two county clerks were killed; Dr. Finlayson in 1869, and Captain Dickinson in 1871? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. In what town? Answer. In Marianna. Question. Were each of these gentlemen killed by a single shot? Answer. They probably were, although Captain Dickinson was shot with buck-shot through his breast and heart, which shot must have been fatal. Then there was a pistol-shot in his body when he was found; that appears to have been shot by solme one standing over his head after he had fallen, from the direction of the bullet being downward. Question. WVas the number of his assassins ever known? Answer. They are not known to me. There are very strong suspicions resting upon parties, but they are not known to me. Question. Is there any definite knowledge that you could give regarding that fact? Answer. Not that I could give. Question. At the time the other clerk was shot, when you say a gentleman who was with him was shot, one was shot, the bullet passing through his neck, and the other was shot in the head? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. When was that? Answer. That was in March, two years ago. Question. Was that in the day-time or in the night-time? Answer. It was in the night-time. Question. Was it ever known how many persons were engaged in that assassination? Answer. No, sir. Question. Then, so far as you know, the deaths of those two persons remain a mystery as to who slew them, or the motives for doing it? Answer. I do not think it is a mystery. Question. Then state any facts that you know connected with their killing which would throw any light upon the subject. Answer. Well, Captain Dickipson, before his death, had received many anonymous threatening letters; from everything which I can understand, he seemed to be expecting death. There was also such a thing as this connected with it: a man meets another

Page  86 86 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. on the road, and is told in conversation that if they could kill Captain Dickinson and himself it wroldl give them the State-referring to the democracy. Question. Who was that man? 4Answer. The one who was told that was Mr. Livingston. Question. WAho made that statement to him? Answcer. I am not acquainted with him; I do not know his name. Question. Do you know who he was? Answer. No, sir. Question. Do you know by whom he was authorized to speak? Answer. No, sir. Question. You do not know what the man's name is? Answer. No, sir; lie was a stranger to Mr. Livingston. This occurred but a few days before Captain Dickinson was shot; the man said he lived in Gadsden County, and said that he had heard that the people in Mariann a were threatening to kill Dickinson. Question. Your statement is based upon the statements of somebody else, of an unknow n an? Answier. Yes, sir; but there were various threats of that kind that I do not now recollect, either who made them, or where they were made; I know they occurred throughout the country; sometimes in the western part of the State. Question. Have you ever lived in Jackson County? Answer. No, sir. Question. How far from it has been your residence? Answler. In the adjoining county. Question, Have you any personal knowledge of the. disturbances there? Anszer. I have not. Question. You have said, in answer to a question by the chairman of this committee, that you believed in the existence of a political organization throughout the State. I will now ask you the facts upon which your belief is based. Do you know any one who belongs to such an organization? Answer. No, sir. Question. Did you ever see a band of those'men yourself? Answer. No, sir. Question. Did you ever see any men in this State who were disguised? Ansiwer. No, sir. Question. Have you knowledge of any case in which the testimony has developed the existence of such an organization? Answer. N'o, sir. Question. Does, then, what you have stated as your belief rise to more than a mere suspicion that such things may be? Answer. I think it does. Question. Are you able now to give us a salient fact to support the belief you have expressed? I understand you to say that you do not know such an organization exists, but that you believe it? Answer. I have not said that I know it, but I have said that I believe it. These numerous deaths and outrages, occurring as they do, the numerous threats that have been imde, and the fact that men have acknowledged it frequently in conversation. Question. Did any man ever acknowledge it to you? Answer. Yes, sir; I think so. Qucstion. Name one who did so? Answer. I cannot state now any names that I can recollect. Question. Give us the name and residence of any person you can think of who has made such an acknowledgment to you. Did you ever know a case in the State where there was violent resistance to the service of legal process from the courts? Ansivcr. I never was present at such a case. Question. Can you state any such case? AnswCer. None to my personal knowledge. Question. Do you not know that throughout this State all civil process can readily be served? Alnswer. I think that generally, through the State, it can. Question. I understand that the governor of the State has the power to appoint all the officers whose duty it would be to issue process and to serve it? Ansuer. Yes, sir. Question. That governor is Mr. Harrison Reed? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. When did he come to Florida? Answetr. In 1865, I think. Question. Since the war? Answer. I think he came to this place during the war. Question. I understand that you yourself came from the State of Maine? Answver. Yes, sir.

Page  87 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 87 Question. When did you come to Florida? Answer. In 1866. Question. What was your occupation before you came here? Answer. I came here from the military service of the United States. Question. Did you lose an arm in that service? Answer. Yes, sir; at Winchester, Virginia. Question. Since you have been here, have you met with any personal injury, any assault, at the hands of any of the people here? lAnswcer. Yes, sir; I was assaulted one day in the town of Quincy. Question. How long ago, and by whom? Answier. It was the latter part of March, on the very day that Yerty was killed in Calhoun County, on a Sunday, and it was by a man of the name of Jones. Question. It was a personal difficulty? Answver. No, sir. Question. What was his assault on you for on Sunday? Answer. I was passing along on the street to the post-office; the mail had just come in, and I was going to the post-office for my mail. When within about ten yards of the post-office door this man stood in the middle of the street, and as I passed him he struck the rim of my hat with what proved afterward to be a large bowie-knife, although when he struck me I did not know what it was. I turned around and asked him what he meant. He said it was to make me recognize a gentleman when I passed him. I told him very well; that I would endeavor to do so when I did pass one; whereupon he caught me by the collar and presented this knife at me. He is a very bitter man, who had not spoken to me for two years. We never had had any words, but we never had been on social terms.' This was the first time he had spoken to me for two years. Question. Was he intoxicated? Ansiver. No, sir; he is a man who never drinks at all. It was at the time the trial of Mr. Allison was going on at Tallahasse. He said that I would have to leave that burgh, as he called it; that I was the cause of the troops coming there, &c. Question. Allison was the man who you say wished to raise a disturbance on election day? An-swer. Yes, sir. Question. On what day was that, and in what year? Answer. It was in November, 1870. Questio,. And this trouble you now speak of was when? Answer. In the latter part of March, 1871. Question. Was this man a friend of Allison? Answer. Political friend; that is all I know. Question. You believe his assault upon you was caused by his feeling growing out of that trial? Answer. He said so. Question. Did you ever have anything done to him for that? Answer No, sir. Question. You never had him indicted? Answer. No, sir. Question. Did you ever have him bound over? Answer. No, sir. When he drew his knife on me, I told him that he had the advantage of me then, but that I would be glad to meet him on favorable terms. I also suggested that the Sabbath day was not a time for settling such matters, and after a time he seemed to take the same view of it himself. He went away, and I went into the post-office and got my mail. He left the State a day or two afterward. However, I should not have taken any steps against him. Question. You felt secure in your own power of self-defense? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What was done in Allison's case? Answer. He was indicted, tried, and convicted; and then he obtained a new trial. Question. Is his case now pending? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You say he was convicted? Alnswer. Yes, sir. Question. And a new trial was granted because of some error in the proceedings? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What was the offense for which he was indicted? Answer. It was an offense charged under some clause of the enforcement act; I forget now which; it was an indictment in the United States court. Question. Were you a witness in that case? Answer. I was; but I had not been at the time this affair occurred of which I have spoken.

Page  88 88 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Question. Who appoints your prosecuting officers throughout the State; what do you call them, district attorneys? Answer. State's attorneys. Question. You have an attorney general for the State? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And you have sub-attorneys under him throughout the State? Answer. Yes, sir; a State's attorney in each judicial district. Question. By whom are those State's attorneys appointed? Anlszer. By the governor. Question. Is the attorney general appointed by the governor? AnsweCr. Yes, sir. Question. You say that you are now speaker of the house of representatives of this State? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What other offices have you held in the State? Answuer. I was a Bureau officer for some time. Question. An officer of the Freedmen's Bureau? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. For how long? Answer. For two years. Question. Where were you then located? Answer. At Quincy. Question. And after that what was your position? Answer. I was surveyor general of the State. Question. Is that an appointment of the governor? Answer. No, sir; that is an appointment under the United States Government. Question. Do you hold that office still? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Is that the only office you hold 1 Answer. That and the position of speaker of the house of representatives of the State legislature. Question. You say the governor came here after the war? Answer. I think he came here during the war. Question. He was not a native of Florida? Answer. No, sir. Question. Who is your State comptroller? Answcer. Robert H. Gamble. Question. Where dbes he live? Answer. At Tallahassee, the capital of the State. Question. Have you a State treasurer? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Are both those officers appointed by the governor? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Excepting this assault upon you on a Sunday by the man Jones, you have not been personally injured in any way since you have been in Florida? Answer. No, sir. Question. What was his first name? Answer. His name is T. P. Jones. Question. When you had that election, and the majority was cut down from the causes you have stated, whom did you elect to the legislature? Answer. Frederick Hill, Harry Crews, and myself. Question. Were you all white men? Answer. No, sir; the other two were colored men. Question. Two colored men and yourself were elected to the legislature at that election? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You spoke of the apparent organization of those men who blocked the polls on that day. I will ask you whether there was not also an organization of the black men who came over to vote there; did they not come over in a body and march regularly to the polls at that time? Answer. No, sir; not to my knowledge; I saw nothing of the kind. Question. Were you present? Answer. Yes, sir; all day. Question. You say they did not come over in a body? Answer. No, sir; not that I saw at all. Question. You say that certain arrests were made of Allison and somebody else? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Were they made by the United States marshal? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Who is the United States marshal?

Page  89 FLORIDA —SUB-COMMITTEE. 89 Answer. Sherman Conant. Question. Was he there present, or did his deputies make the arrest? ~A4nswer. He was not present at that time. Question. When did the marshal come to Florida? Answer. In 186, to the best of my knowledge. Question. Where did he come from? Answier. I think Massachusetts is his native State. Question. What is the proportion of blacks and whites in the town of Quincy, where this election was held? Answer. Of voters? Question. Yes; you spoke of 1,400 being the entire poll. Answer. I said there were about 1,400 blacks, and about 1,000 whites, in the county. Question. You said that in the town of Quincy the proportion of blacks was much greater. Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What was the proportion in the town of Quincy? AnswLer. The town itself is very small, but the precincts around the town are thickly settled. Question. The vote of the town is not separated from the vote of those precincts? Answer. No, sir. Question. What is the vote of the precinct in which the town is included? Answer. Our precincts are not regularly divided off, but those present that day, I should judge, were about 800 blacks and 500 whites, to the best of my judgment. Question. What is the population of Jackson County? Answer. It is larger than that of Gadsden County in population, but just about how much I am not informed. Question. Do you know the relative vote of the different colors? Answer. There is a larger proportion of blacks in that county. Question. The blacks are in the majority in Jackson County? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And have a larger proportion of votes there than in the other county? Ansiver. Yes, sir; than in Gadsden County. Question. You cannot give the precise figures? Answer. No, sir. Question. You mentioned the case of a ferryman who was shot by the river side. Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Was that in the day-time? Answer. It was about 12 o'clock at noon, high noon. Question. It was in the day-time? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Do you know how many men were engaged in the assault on him? Answer. There were three or four of them. Question. Is it known who they were? Answer. I do not know, but I think it is known; they are unknown to me; I am not acquainted with them. Question. Was that in a wild and thinly settled part of the country? Ansiser. It was. Question. Have you had any of those persons indicted? Answer. No, sir. Question. Will you tell me why it is that, with the entire machinery of the State in the hands of the party with which you act, from the governor down, you do not indict these parties for these murders? Answer. Just simply becauseQuestion. I will also add, with the United States tribunals here, with officers who, I suppose, desire to bring these parties to justice. Answer. I do not think the State government, or the republican party, has any more control in Jackson County now than if they did not exist. Question. Yet the governor has the nomination of those officers who control it? Answer. They would shoot them and kill them as fast as they could be appointed, unless such were appointed as they would recommend. Question. I have asked you the question, and you can answer it. Answer. The Government has actually no power in that County; the courts have no power there, from the best information I have. And, as a general thing, more than half of the jurors are men who do not seem disposed to check these things. Question. Have you not, in this State, the power to change the venue, rwhere the prosecuting officer has reason to believe a fair trial will not be reached? Answer. I think not on the part of the State. Question. That power lies only with the defendant? Answer. Yes, sir; I think so.

Page  90 90 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN TIE SOUTHERN STATES. Question. You say your law does not permit a change of venue on behalf of the prosecution? 4Answer. I think not; that is the best of my knowledge now, and I am pretty positive that it does not. Question. I presume your United States juries are summoned by your marshal? A2nswer. Yes, sir. Question. Where does the United States court sit? Answer. At this place, at Tallahassee, and also at Pensacola. Question. You have spoken of Jackson County; is there any other portion of the State which you would place in the same category as that as to its anarchical condition? Answer. Not that I have so much knowledge of as I have of that county, because that adjoins the one in which I live. Question. Having been agent of the Freedmen's Bureau; being now the speaker of the house of representatives of this State; having lived here since 1866, I will ask you whether you have confined your statements to the county of Jackson, or do you extend them to other portions of the State; and, if so, to what portions? Answer. So far as my knowledge goes, that county is the only one entirely and effectually in the hands of a mob; it is virtually under the control of a lawless band of men. Question. Now, about these manuscripts which you have given in evidence here; this gentleman, Mr. Dickinson, I find, by an examination of this affidavit, was a justice of the peace; had he any other office than that? Answer. Not that I know of, except that of clerk of the court. Question. You knew that he was a justice of the peace? Aniswver. Yes, sir; I think I was aware that he was. Question. All these papers were found on his person? Ansver. Not on his person, but among his personal effects. Question. You know nothing more of them than that fact? Answver. That is all. Question. Did you know Samuel Fleishman, whose name is signed to this affidavit? Answer. I knew him before he was killed. Question. Was he also killed? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. When? Answer. A few days after that affidavit was made. Question. Do you know by whom he was killed? Aniswer. No, sir. Question, Was it known by whom he was killed? Answzer. Not to my knowledge. Question. These memoranda came from the personal effects of Mr. Dickinson? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Do you know anything about what they mean? Answer. Only from their contents and from conversation with him and others. Question. Are the facts there stated within your knowledge in any way at all? Answer. Not within my personal knowledge; I was not present in the county. Question. You merely furnished these papers, at the request of the chairman, as papers found in this gentleman's possession at the time of his death? Answcr. Yes, sir. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. In his possession, and in his handwriting? Answer. Yes, sir. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. You spoke of some desperado or rowdy there? Answeer. Yes, sir. Question. Who was he? Answer. A man by the name of Lot. Question. Who killed Yerty? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And was suspected of having something to do with the assassination of Dickinson? Ansswer. He was accredited with that. Question. Have attempts been made to capture him? Answer. I suppose there have been. Question. Has process been sued out against him? Answer. Not to my knowledge; I have heard so. Question. Was it quite well known by you and by gentlemen of your circle of ac

Page  91 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 91 quaintance and political sentiment that this man was suspected of complicity in these crimes; was it quite notorious? Answer. He has a notorious character throughout the State, and has borne it for some years. Question. You do not know whether any steps have been taken to bring him to justice before the tribunals of this State or of the United States? Answer. Not to my personal knowledge. Question. Do you know whether he is in the State at all? Answer. I do not. Question. You spoke of a supposed sympathy with him in his wicked acts, and illustrated it by saying that some persons had said they would give him their best horse. Did any one ever say so to you, or do you know of your own knowledge who did say so? Aniswer. No, sir; I do not. Question. In speaking of these matters are you doing more than repeating the rumors which come to you second-hand? A.swver. It is information to me. Question. Are you able to give the name of a single man in the State who said he would give that man his best horse? Answsr. No, sir; I could not give the name of any man who said so. Question. You have been informed that men had said so? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Without knowing who the men were; is that the fact? Answver. Yes, sir. Those expressions were so frequent that I do not know that I would ask who the men were who made use of them. Question. I asked you if you knew, in order that we might be able to tell whether those men were responsible men, or some such characters as Lot himself. Answier. I understand your object. Question. That is my reason for asking you; and I understand you to.say that you are unable to tell me? Answer. Yes, sir. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. What was the feeling among the democratic part of the community, the masses of them, in respect to the killing of these men; what was their feeling, manifested either by conversation or through the press? Answer. So far as my knowledge extends, there was an expression of approval throughout, except some few expressions of regret that it should have been done. I will say that the usual expression was one of approval. The press approved it in this way: they said it was done for money, and gave other excuses. The editor of the Quincy Journal stated, when the affair first occurred, that it was a political murder. Afterward, in his paper, he asserted most positively that it was not political. Question. Did he intimate who had committed the murder? Answer. No, sir. Question. Or the kind of person who had done it? Answer. No, sir. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. You were asked by the chairman whether the democrats expressed a general joy over these assassinations. Can you give the name of a democrat there who did express joy over them? Answier. I would not want to give the name of any man who expressed joy. Question. You heard the question of the chairman, and I understood you to reply in the affirmative. I want to know something more accurately about these things. I consider that a man who would do that would stand before the public very much discredited, and I do not desire to hear such a wholesale charge as that made without some specification. Answer. It is almost impossible to describe these things, they are done in such a way. Question. I think, having made the answer you did to the chairman, that it is proper you should answer my question more specifically. Answer. I could not give the name of any particular person who rejoiced at those assassinations. Question. Did you ever hear any such expression yourself from any one? Answer. I have heard men talk of it and give general excuses for it, or rather endeavor to turn it off on something else, saying that some negro killed the man. I have heard others say that the radicals had him killed for political effect. I say that those things are done for a purpose; I do not call it rejoicing. Question. Is that the kind of statements that you meant you had heard made when you gave your reply to the question of the chairman?

Page  92 92 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You do not mean that you had heard any justification or excuse offered for the act itself, for the killing of the men? Answer. No, sir; only in that indirect way. Question. Do you mean to say that the excuse was that a man was killed for money, for robbery? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Is that what you mean by its being an excuse, a palliation? Answer. Yes, sir. I have reason to believe and know that no man actually believed that Dickinson was murdered for any other reason than because he held the political position he did. Question. That is your opinion given here of what you believe the opinion of other people to be. The chairman has gone further, and asked you as to facts existing in your community. You gave at first a certain affirmation to his question, which, I admit, was one plainly put for the purpose of being answered in that way. Answer. You understand that my reason for thinking so is the light expressions that are made use of in that way. Question. Not to do you injustice, or to allow you to misunderstand me about it, I will ask if you mean that it is your belief that the man was killed because of his political opinions? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And you say that other men of the opposite party say it was not so, but that he was assassinated for his money? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Or assassinated by some negro, or killed for some other reason than the one you believe to have been the reason? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. I understand you to say that the giving of such reasons is held by you to be an excuse, on their part for the crime? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. That is the extent of your meaning? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. That puts a very different phase upon it from what your answer did to the question in the first instance. Answer. I have endeavored to explain what I meant. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. Do I understand you correctly to say that, in your opinion, these excuses that were made, or the reasons that were assigned, were not real, and were not felt to be real, and were not believed by those who made them, but were put forward in a frivolous, trivial, and altogether insincere tone? Answer. Yes, sir; that was my interpretation of the remarks that were made. There were further expressions; some asserted that he was killed by a negro man because of familiarity with his wife. All those things were said simply to make the injury worse by casting an imputation upon his reputation. I call it rejoicing in that way. Question. You could understand from the tone and manner of people in speaking of a transaction of that kind whether they were regretting it or whether they were, in fact, glad that it had been done. There was no mistaking what the feeling of men is when they are talking in that way? Answer. That is my reason for giving my opinion, based on the expressions and the manner of expression. Question. In such cases a great deal more depends upon the manner of expression, sometimes, than upon the particular language used? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You spoke of this proceeding against Allison in the Federal court? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Was that proceeding under what is called the enforcement act? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Had you been examined as a witness when Jones attacked you with a knife? Answer. I had not. Question. Were you subsequently examined? Answer. Yes, sir. By Mr. SCOrIELD: Question. The court was about sitting where that case was to be tried? Answer. Yes, sir; I suppose I had been examined before the grand jury, but not before the court. This was a 4(y or two before the court met. Question. And there was some excitement in your town about the case that was to come before the court the next day? Answer. Yes, sir; the only astonishing thing to me about it was that men who -pro

Page  93 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 93 fessed to be men in favor of law and order stood there, about twelve or fifteen of them, and there was not a hafnd raised to stop it. I just browbeat the man off by telling him that I was not afraid of him, and that I would meet him at any time He said that he had had difficulty in finding me; that he had been looking for rie for some time. By the CHAIRMIAN: Question. Was it true that there had been any difficulty in finding you? Had yon been concealed at all, or had you been going about publicly? Alnswer. I had been going about publicly except at night. I had not exposed myself at night since last election. Question. Why not? Answer. Just from the state of things there. Question. You consider it unsafe to do so? Answer. Yes, sir; my greatest fears were of men from this county of Jackson. I was informed by the sheriff of that county that four men had been over and had offered their services to the citizens of Quincy, if they wanted to get rid of any man-had offered to do it for them; and they had been told there that there was no such work for them to do, and they had then gone back to Jackson County. The sheriff is a conservative man, a democrat, and a very business-like man. He informed me of this, and I thought it prudent for me not to expose myself to marauders passing around through tue country. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. You refer to those of your own county? Answer. Yes, sir. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. You have been asked about Dickinson; how long before his death had he been appointed clerk'? Answer. He was appointed immediately after the death of Dr. Finlayson, in 1869. Question. Previous to that time had he been a justice of the peace? Answer. I think so; I am not so very familiar with the organization of that county. Question. Have you any information that you deem reliable in regard to the organization I have been inquiring about, as to its character, or the manner in which it is bound together? Answer. No, sir; I have.not. Question. Do you know whether its members are bound together by oath? Answer. I do not know personally. Question. I do not ask of your own personal knowledge alone, but whether you have information that you deem reliable. Answer. Only rumor. Question. You have been asked in regard to the state of things outside of Jackson County. Have there been violations of law in other parts of the State? Answer. I have heard of them frequently. Question. But not to the same extent as in Jackson County? Answer. No, sir. Question. Do you know what effect the passage of what is known as the Ku-Klux bill of Congress has had? Answer. It has had a very quieting effect; a very salutary effect, I think. Question. You have told us that you were an agent of the Freedmen's Bureau; how long did you act in that capacity? Answer. For two years. Question. So far as you could observe, what was the effect of the Freedmen's Bureau in its operations, favorable or unfavorable? Answer. Very favorable; it seemed to me to be an indispensable organization at that time. Question. Do you think it was just and equitable both to the colored and the white people? A swer. Yes, sir; equally so in regulating the system of labor. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. When Allison was tried, how was his jury composed? Answer. Do you mean were they black or white? Question. Yes. Answer. Really, I cannot say; there were some black men and some white men upon the jury. To the best of my recollection there were more white than black men on the jury; I know that both colors were on the jury,

Page  94 94 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA, Novemnber 10, 1871. EMANUEL FORTUNE (colored) sworn and examined. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. State your age, where you were born, where you now live, and what is your occupation? A Tsw'r. I am going on thirty-nine years old; I was born in Jackson County, in this State, and I now live in Jacksonville. I work at the carpenter's trade now when I work; I was formerly a shoemaker, but I do not follow that now on account of my health; I am a common laborer, not much more. Question. When did you leave Jackson County? Answer. In May, 1869. Question. Why did you leave there? Answer. There got to be such a state of lawlessness and outrage that I expected that my life was in danger at all times, and I left on that account; in fact I got, indirectly, information very often that I would be missing some day and no one would know where I was, on account of my being a leading man in politics, and taking a very active part in it. That was the cause of my being very obnoxious to the people; I was one of the most prominent men in that county; I was really the only one that did go through all the combats that were fought with Major Purman and Mr. Hamilton in organizing the party there. Question. Is that Mr. Hamilton the one who was lately your member of Congress? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Do you know anything about the Ku-Klux organization there? Answer. I do not know anything personally; I have never seen any, but I believe they are there as much as I believe anything. There is a man who saw two disguised men there about eight feet high, in the moonlight, sitting in a place where they finally killed a man. Question. Who wao it that they killed? Answer. Calvin Rogers. Question. Was he colored or white? Answer. He was a colored man. Question. Had there been any men killed in your county before you left? AnswCer. Yes, sir; several were killed; Dr. Finlayson was killed for one, and Major Purman was shot at the same time; three men were called out of their doors and shot; some were shot through the cracks of the houses, and others as they were going into the houses. I do not remember their names, but there were a great many cases of that kind before I left; I was told by my friends that there were men staying around my place as though for no good purpose; I expected that my days were very few, and I thought I would leave for a while; I did not expect to move from there when I left, but it kept getting worse; my parents wrote me not to come back; I started once and got back as far as Live Oak, and met a friend there who told me that there was a row just over the river, and that the same band of men had killed a prison-guard and two citizens; I came back, and soon got letters from my friends not to go back there at all. Question. Did you ever get any written notice to leave? Answer. Not by name; I did with others; it was addressed to Major Purman & Co., and I considered myself included. Question. Did you ever hold any official position? Answer. I was then a member of the legislature, and in 1868 I was a member of the constitutional convention. Question. And subsequently a member of the legislature? Answer. Yes, sir; I was a member of the legislature from that county upon the reorganization of the State government. Question. Did you ever hear any threats from any quarter going to show that you or your race were in danger? lAnswer. I cannot say that I have heard that my race was in danger, but I have heard that "those damned politicians should be got rid of;" it was a kind of indirect expression made by the crackers, &c. Question. Did you hear any expression in reference to your people having a right to vote? Answer. Yes, sir; I have had a great many arguments in reference to that. They would argue very strongly against it. I woul talk very liberally with them, and they generally respected me to my face. I have had a great many arguments with them, and they always spoke very bitterly against it. Question. What language would they use? Answer. " The damned republican party has put niggers to rule us and we will not suffer it;" " Intelligence shall rule the country instead of the majority;" and all such as that. They always said that this was a " white man's government," and that "the colored men had no right that white men were bound to respect."

Page  95 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 95 Question. Did you hear such language as that used? Answer. Yes, sir; I heard it used privately, and I also heard the public speakers use it. Mr. Barnes, who ran against Colonel Hamilton for Congress, made a very bitter speech of that kind on the public stand; he said that this was a white man's government, and that colored men had no rights that white men were bound to respect. Question. Did he call them colored men? Answer. No, sir; he said " niggers." Question. How has it been in other counties in the State besides Jackson? Answer. I could hear rumors of difficulties in Columbia County and in Alachua County. Question. Have you seen persons from those counties? Answer. I think there are persons living here to-day who had to flee from Columbia Couity, and also from other counties. They talk with me and tell me of their difficulties, but I do not know them again when I see them. There will be some witnesses here from Columbia County who can inform you about that. Question. What was the feeling in Jackson County in regard to your people having their freedom? Answer. It was a very strong feeling of opposition, but then that feeling seemed to have died out. They then adopted their bogus constitution, and had everything they wanted and became reconciled. After the reorganization of the State they became very much opposed to the rights of suffrage; that seemed to make them very bitter; they took everything better than that. Question. What is the feeling in respect to your people voting? Answcer. They are generally opposed to it; they speak bitterly against it. Question. How do they regard your people getting land and owning it for themselves? Answer. Well, they generally do not interfere with them much, not in that line. Question. Are they ready to sell them land? Answer. No, sir; they will not sell land; we have to purchase land from the Government, or from the State, otherwise we cannot get it. They do not sell our people any land; they have no disposition to do so. They will sell them a lot now and then in a town, but nothing of any importance. Qliestion. Have you ever known of anybody in Jackson being punished for any of these crimes? Answer. Not one. Question. Why has it not been done; what is the difficulty in the way of doing it? Answer. No one could ever anticipate who did these things; that was the grand reason; everybody would wonder who did it; it was always done in such a way that no one could state who did it. As a general thing if they suspicioned a man, either the officers or any of us, they would always arrange the testimony so as to prove that he was at such and such a place at the very time the thing was done. They are perfectly organized. Question. Are you satisfied from your own knowledge, or from reliable information, that there is an organization which commits these killings and other injuries of which you speak? Answer. I am perfectly satisfied of that in my own judgment. Question. What is the purpose of that organization, do you suppose? Answer. Well, the object of it is to kill out the leading men of the republican party; that is all I know. They have never attacked any one but those who have been somewhat prominent in the party, men who have taken prominent stands. They generally respected me very much: I always conducted myself genteelly among them. Captain Dickinson, who got killed there, said to me a year ago, when he was down herbe ttending to the census, "Fortune, you could go back to Jackson County and live if you would; you would not be hurt." I said. " Could I go back there and be a free man as I was when I was there before; to use freedom of speech and act in politics as any man would want with his own people-will I be sate to do that?" He said, " No, you will not; you will have to abandon that if you go back." Question. Did you live in that county before the war? Answer. I was born and raised there. Question. Had you been a slave? Answer. I was. Question. How much education have you? Answer. None, only what I have got by my own perseverance. Question. Did you get that before the war, or since emancipation? Answer. I learned to read before the war; since the war I have learned to write. Question. What is the feeling in regard to colored schools? Answer. I do not rightly know how it is now. At the outset, after freedom, they disturbed our schools a great deal, until we raised a kind of band to protect our schools. We complained to the marshal several times, but he did not do anything. They were afraid at that time of a difficulty with us, and they subdued their own fellows who

Page  96 96 CONDITION} OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. were interfering with fis; they got scared. We have not been interfered with in the school line since. They were mistreating our children, stoning them, and talked about mobbing the teachers, and all such as that; that was before the right of suffrage was given to us. Question. Where have your teachers come from? Answier. We have had no teachers there only such as we could get around there. Question. Of your own color, mostly? Ansier, No, sir: they were white. At that time we had a man from New Orleans, I think; I do not know certainly where he was from; he was not a good man, any way, and he did not stay very long. After that several companies detailed soldiers to teach for us while they had nothing else to do in their quarters. Question. You say the teachers at the time were a great deal molested and disturbed? Anszer. At the outset, yes, sir. We never had any public schools, only private schools, such as we could get up for ourselves; the Government had not done anything for us in the way of schools. Before I came from there we got up our own schools, got our teachers, and paid for them ourselves. Question. How were your churches kept up? Answer. They did not interfere with the churches at all. Question. Were your preachers interfered with at all? Jnswcer. No, sir; they were never molested that I know of, until recently I heard a rumor that one or two of them have been shot at or shot, I do not know which; I have never heard the straight of it. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. When you speak of" the outset" do you mean just after the war closed? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Have you had any trouble during the last three years or so, from interference with your children going to school, &c.? Answer. No, sir. Question. What were the ages of the people by whom your children were interfered with? Answer. Boys of sixteen and eighteen. Questio'n. Rude boys? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. That was the interference you speak of? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Did you ever have any interference from grown people? A nswer. None from grown men; there might be some few men, about twenty-one or so, but they were considered only older boys. Question. They stopped in 1868, and you have had nothing of the kind in the last two or three years? Answer. No, sir. Question. You spoke of the difficulty of obtaining land; is it not very abundant in Florida? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And cheap? Answer. Not very cheap. Question. If you wanted to buy a farm what could you get a pretty good farm for here; how much an acre? Answer. Cultivable land over there was generally worth from ten to fifteen dollars an acre. Question. You could get a good piece of land for that? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What did you get Government lands for? Answer. I think the State lands were one dollar and a quarter an acre. Question. And you could obtain lands for how much under the homestead law? Answier. 1 have forgotten the terms of the homestead law; but a great many of our people take up homesteads. Question. Can you buy all the good lands you want for ten or fifteen dollars an acre? Answer. Very poor people cannot afford that. Question. You can get it if you have the money? Answier. They will not sell it in small quantities. I would have bought forty acres there if the man would have sold me less than a whole tract. They hold it in that way so that colored people cannot buy it. Question. Do you think it is held so that they cannot buy it, or does the set of buildings on a farm make too big a piece for a poor man to buy? Answer. No, sir; the quarters are excluded from the cultivable land. The lands we cultivate, generally, are swamp, or hommock, or lowlands. Question. There is an objection to selling small quantities of land?

Page  97 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 9 7 Answer. Yes, sir; and that is really the great obstacle in the way of colored people getting land. Question. Is there not plenty of other land to buy? Answer. Not that is worth anything in that county. I do not know of any Government land there that will raise cotton. Question. How about other parts of Florida? Answer. I do not know about other parts; I believe in some other counties they do better. For instance, in Marion County and in Alachua County they get better lands there as homesteads than in other counties. But the homesteads in Jackson County are of no account at all-very poor. Question. The good lands are all occupied? Answer. Yes, sir; all taken up. Question. Have you a State system of public schools? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Why are the schools not established in that county? Answer. I do not know why the authorities do not go over there and establish them. I got after the superintendent of schools to go over there, but he did not go. Question. Who is the superintendent of common schools? Answer. Mr. Chase was at the time I was attending over there. I suppose he was afraid. It was such a bad place that they naturally didn't want to go there. Question. Mr. Chase is superintendent of public schools? Answer. He is not now. Question. Who is now? Answer. I do not know. Question. Was he appointed by the governor? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Where was Chase from? Answer. From Michigan. Question. He calme here after the war? Answer. Yes, sir; and went North and died. Qulestion. Who is the present officer? Answer. I do not know; he is a stranger to me. Question. You spoke of the assassination of Dr. Finlayson? Ansu er. Yes, sir. Question. That was in March, 1869? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Alnd the same shot that killed him struck another man? Answer. Yes, sir; or another shot. Question. Was he a white man or a colored man? Answer. He was a white man; a clerk of the court in Jackson County. Question. You were a slave before the war? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You had learned to read? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Could you read with ease? Answer. I could read tolerably well. Question. Could you'read writing at all? Answer. No, sir. Question. You have learned to write since the war? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. By what year had you learned to write? Answer. I began to learn in 1867, but I could not write much writing till 1868. I cannot write it very well now. Question. When were you elected to the State constitutional convention? Answer. In 1868, I think. Question. You served through the convention that framed the constitution in this State? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. When were you elected to the legislature? Answer. That summer, I think; the legislature, I think, met in July. Question. You were elected from Jackson County? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Who were your colleagues from that county? Answer. Major Purman, Jesse Robinson, and Mr. McMillan. Question. Were they colored people? Answer. Robinson and myself were colored; the other two were white men. Question. Where.did Major Purman and Mr. McMillan come from? Answer. McMillan is an old citizen of Jackson County; I think he was born in Alabama, but he has been in Jackson for many years. Major Purman is from Pennsylvania. 7 B

Page  98 98 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Question. He came here since the war? 1AsweCr. Yes, sir. Question. Was Robinson any better educated than yon were? Ans1ier. He could read writing better than I could, but he could not write any better, and lie could not read print any better. Question. Are you still a member of the legislature? Answer. No, sir. Que.stion. When did your term expire? Answler. Last November. Qiestion. Who arc the present members of the legislature from Jackson County? Answer. Major Purman is the senator, and Ben Livingston is the only assemblyman there is. Question. Who is he? Answer. I understood Major Conant to say that he would be here in a day or two. Question. They have sent for him? AnswCer. Yes, sir. Question. He is living out there now? ALnser. Yes, sir.' There was another poor man who always went with us, and took sides with us, and acted very prominently in the republican ranks, and he was elected to the legislature, but he was really afraid to serve, and he resigned l he was a poor white man. The other democrat who was elected died since; he was one of the bitterest tools they had. Question. Did he die a natural death? Avnswer. Yes, sir; he died of congestion of the brain, I believe. Question. What is the voting population of Jackson County? Answ'er. It is between twelve and fourteen hundred. Question. Altogether? Answer. No, sir; it is about twenty-one hundred altogether. Qulestion. How many colored voters are there? Answer. Between twelve and fourteen hundred; somewhee therealo there. Question. You have a pretty large majority of the colored votes there? Ansnler. Yes, sir. Question. IHow many white republican voters are there in that county? Answer. I suppose that the highest we have polled is about one hunireed; we have had two or three little discussions in different places in the country. Qutestion. You took a leading part in politics in your county? Answer. Yes, sir. Qlestion. Did you make political addresses all over your county? Auswu'er. Yes, sir. Question. Were you personally injured by your opponents? Answier. No, sir; they never would attack us o(lenly; that is not their way of getting revenge, they are too sharp for that. Question. They treated you civilly to your face? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Had you any trouble in getting all your votes in at the polls? Answer. Not while I was there; I canvassed the State twice for a State election. I'was very prominent in the party, and they had a great deal against me. Question. In canvassing the State, you spoke wherever you saw fit? Answer. Wherever there were appointments. Qucstion. To large audiences? Answe r. Yes, sir. Question. Did you do so without hindrance or molestation? Answer. Yes, sir; at that time. Question. All over the State? Anslwer. Yes, sir. There was a disposition in Monticello to make a disturbance, but the better citizens soon suppressed it. I spoke of John Brown, alld some fellow drew a pistol, or it was said that he did, but the better citizens soon gathered him and hustled him out. I did not see it myself, but I heard of it afterward. Question. Was that the only occasion? Anslver. I went with Colonel Hamilton to Walton County to inform the people there of the constitutional convention, and to get the republicans there to go in favor of the convention. He and I went into the court-house; the audience, of course, were generally back country people, very poor people. After the meeting, at which he and I both spoke, we were informed that while speaking there was some disposition for a disturbalice. After fhe meeting we all dispersed, and ing oing to the hotel some colored men came to us, and we were advising them what to do on the day of election. After they came several more came, and there was a right good bunch around us, some eight or ten. The white fellows, who were off at a store not very far off, got very bitter about it, as they did not want us to communicate with them at all. They came hustling up toward us, and Colonel Hamilton, I suppose, got mad, for he. spoke very abruptly to

Page  99 FLORIDA —SUB-COMMITTEE. 99 them. They pitched right in for a fight, and there was quite a scuffle. Men were going to cut him in the back, but I kept them off. One picked up a rail and it broke in two, and they turned and fled. It all ended by his tripping in the wild grass, and this fellow got on him and choked him. That ended the tight, because he considered that he had the best of it. Question. Who was Colonel Hamilton? Answeer. He was the late Congressman from this State. Question. A white man? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Those were the only occasions where you had any trouble? Answer. Yes, sir; in those days. Question. You said what you pleased then? Aniswcer. I generally spoke pretty liberally. Question. You have said that soldiers were sometimes detailed for your schools; what soldiers have you had in your county? Alslcer. Some of the Seventh United States Cavalry. Question. When were they up there? Anstcwr. In 1868 and 1869, I think; perhaps the latter part of 1867. Question. A regiment, or a company? Answler. A company or a squad. Question. Are there troops there now? Answier. No, sir. Question. Are you certain of that? Answer. I think there are none there now. Question. How long since there were any there? Answer-. Two years, I think; I do not know certainly. Question. Since any troops were there at all? Answer. Yes, sir. The last troops that were there were removed soon after Dr. Finlavson was killed. Question. They were there when he was killed? Answcer. Yes, sir. Major Purman and Dr. Finlayson were going from a concert that the soldiers gave when they were shot; the soldiers had a kind of concert and they went to it, and were shot coming from that concert. Question. Were the persons who shot them ever discovered? LAswer. No, sir. Question. Were those discovered who killed Mr. Dickinson? Answer. No, sir; not that I know of; I was not there then. Question. Was Finlayson shot by a single assassin? Anisw7er. There were tracks of two men there who shot at Finlayson. Question. You have no personal knowledge of any organization of these marauders in your county, of men who commitbthese acts of violence? Answer. No, sir. Question. You'never saw a man disguised in the State anywhere? Ansvser. No, sir. Question. You never met any of these bands? Answer. No, sir. Question. You mentioned some one who said that he once saw two men eight feet high? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Where? Answer. Right on the side of the road. Question. How long ago was that? lAnswer. This summer two years ago. Question. What other acts of violence do you know of as having occurred in that county, except the cases of Finlayson and Dickinson? Answer. I know of a young fellow who was shot near by my house one night, through his leg; it was supposed that he was shot by mistake for Calvin Rogers, who was also shot in the same spot. He was about the same size and build, and wore a dress that was very much like the one worn by Rogers. It was supposed he was shot through mistake; he was an innocent boy that no one cared anything for. Question. How old was he? Answer About nineteen or twenty; he was twenty, I think. Question. How long ago was that? Answer. In the summer of 1868 or 1869; I do not remember exactly. Question. What other cases do you know of? Answer. I do not know of any other cases except such as I have heard of in my county; I have heard of men being killed at different points. Question. Can you give their names? Answer. No, sir. Question. Personally, you hawe no knowledge of any except those three cases?

Page  100 100 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Answer. No, sir. Question. One occurred in 1868, one in 1869, and the other in the spring of 1871? Answier. Yes, sir. Question. Have you heard of any other acts of violence? IA lsler. I have heard of some, but I do not know much about them. Question. In the same county? A swaccr Yes, sir. Qulestion. Of what character? Answver. There have been several persons shot there lately. Question. Do you know anything of the particulars? Ailswer. No, sir; I do not. Question. Do you know any of the persons themselves? Anlsuer. I know one who has been shot. Question. You say one has been summoned up here? An swcr. Yes, sir. By the CHIAIRMAN: Question. Was Dr. Finlayson an old citizen of Florida Answver. He was a native of this State. (Question. Was he a republican? Asistler. He was after the surrender and just before. Q!estion. He was a republican at the time he was killed? Answer. He was, and went with us in everything; he took as active a part as a man could. Qlestion. What was his character as a citizen? An1swer. He was a doctor. Qucstion. Was he a man respected and esteemed? Answer. Yes, sir; his relatives had been very highly thought of; he was from the first class of people. He was tried to be cried down and made small of after he joined the republican party; they said he was a rogue, and all this, that, and the other, just as they do all the republicans generally. Question. That is a commnon thing on the part of their opponents to charge the republicans with everything that is scandalous and disparaging? AnsIuter. 0, yes, sir; of course. Question. You have been asked in regard to buying and selling land to colored men. Answer. Yes, sir; that is the principal objection. There are no tracts there except large tracts of not less than 100, 200, or 500 acres; they will not sell 40 or 50 acres, or as much as a man could tend. Qalestion. Do you think a white man would be able to get 40 or 50 acres? Analwer. I do not know butt he could. Question. Have you heard people use any language to indicate an indisposition to sell land to colored people; did you ever hear the matter talked of? AnswU'r. No, sir; I do not know that I have ever heard anything said against selling land to them. It is my opinion that that is the understanding, that all understand one another, and work together for their own interest. Qiestion. You have been asked in regard to Major Purman, and you have said that he is a man who came here since the war; is that made any objection to him? Does anybody object to him because he has come here since the wvar? Aiswetcr. I suppose that was one objection; and another objection was that he was a very fluent speaker. He would take a very active part and would go to his utmost strenugth ir the success of the party. That was his way of doing generally when lie was over there. The great objection was that he was a prominent republican and a leader of the people there. They said they " never could do anything with the damned niggers as long as Purman was there." That was the usual talk. Question. Do you understand that it is made an objection in any part of your State to a'man that he was not born in your State? Answer. It has been spoken of very often that we have plenty of men of our own to rule our government, without having men to come here to do it for us. I have had a great many arguments on that. I said I thought that an American citizen was a residenlt wherever he stopped long enough to become a voter. They would claim that such men were not identified with the country as they should be. Question. Do they make a distinction between northern men and southern men? Answer. They made no distinction about men who joined the republican party, twhether northern men or southern men. A northern man was a " damned yankee, wlho came here to rule us;" and a southern man who joined the republican party was a " damned scalawag, and there was no honesty about him; he was a traitor to his country and his race." By Mr. BAYARD: Question. Did you ever know any man in Jackson County, having land for sale, who

Page  101 FLORIDA —SUB-COMMITTEE. 101 declared that he would not sell a small piece to a colored man, but would sell a smaTl piece to a white mal? Answer. No, sir. Question. You only know that there is a general indisposition on their part to sedl their lands in small parcels? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. They generally prefer to sell it in parcels of 100 acres and upward? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. That is what you mean, and all you mean? Aniswer. Yes, sir. JACKSONVILLE. FLORIDA, ORID Aeo becr 10, 1871. ROBERT MEACHAM (colored) sworn and examined. By the CIIARIMAN: Question. State your age, where you were born, where you now live, and what is your tresent occupation?;Aswer. I am about thirty-six years old; I was born in Gadsden County, Florida, and I now live in MIonticello, in Jefferson County; I am a State senator, and also register of the United States land-office. Question. How long have you lived in Jefferson County? Answer. I have lived there since May 30, 1866. Question. Where did you live before that time? Answer. In Tallahassee; I had lived in Tallahassee for about fifteen years before that, and before that time I lived in Quincy, in Gadsden County, where I was born ind raised. Question. What is the condition of your people in your part of the State; how are they getting along? Answer. Do you mean about living? Question. Yes. AisTerc. They are getting along, I might say, tolerable; they are poor, it is true; they work hard and make very little. Question. Are they procuring homes for themselves? Ainswer. Very few of them. Question. Why is that? AnlswCer. It is for the want of means to buy land; that is one reason; another reason is that they do not have a chance to buy the land. Question. How so? Answer. Those who have it will not sell it. Qutestion. Do you mean that they will not sell it at all, or that they will not sell it to colored men? Answer. It is some of both; they will not sell it to colored men for one thing, and another reason is that they ask so much for it that colored people cannot buy it. Question. Do you think there is any disposition among people who hold the land to prevent colored people from buying land and obtaining homes? Answer. I think so. Question. What would be the disposition of your people in that respect, if they had the opportunity? Answver. I think most of them-not all-would try and get homes. I believe there will always be some who will not try to be of any account, but two-thirds of them or more would try and get homes. Question. How has it been with regard to their contracts for employment; have they had much trouble in settling up fairly and getting their pay? Answser. A great deal. Question. What has been the difficulty? Answer. In the first place a majority of them do not know how to make a contract for their interests. The farmers who make the contracts with them draw up the contracts in writing and read it to them. The colored people are generally uneducated, and wlhen a contract says this or that they hardly know what it means. A great many of the contracts give the farmer a lien upon what portion of the crop is coming to them for any debt they incur. Another reason why they do not get much is, that in the months of August and September mostly, when the crops are laid by, the slightest insult, as they call it, or the slightest neglect, is sufficient to turn them off, and accordilg to the contract they get nothing. The contracts are made in this way: articles of agreement are drawn up which provide that if either one of the parties of the first part or the second part violate any of the articles they are to be turned off and get nothing. Now that i, remedied a little; there is a law now in this State that allows

Page  102 102 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. a man to get what he works for, unless it is proven fairly that he has willfully neglected or violated any of the articles of agreement. In a great many instances about my portion of the country-I know this personally-you will find that for the slightest offense the laborers are turned off and get nothing. Questionl. Does that occur before the crop is made; or after it is made? iAnswer. In the months of August and September generally, when the crop is made; sometimes in July. Question. When there is nothing to do about the crop except to gather it? Answcer. Yes, sir; in the month of July the corn is made, and they pull fodder here then. Question. What is the difficulty in the way of your people going to the courts of justice and getting things put right? Answer. There is a treat deal of trouble in that way. A great many justices of the peace have the jails full of colored people for the most frivolous and trifling things. Wlhen the charges are examined into they are found to amount to nothing. You will find in other cases, where there is a good justice of the peace, who has some discretion and some judgment as to what is right, the jails are not full. In the county of Jefferson, where I live, there are very few in the jail, in comparison with some other counties that I know of. Question. What do you think is the feeling in regard to allowing your people to vote? 4Answrer. Well, sir, there is not a very good feeling on the part of the white people of our country. Question. WThat objection have they to it? Ailswer. They say that a man ought not to vote, except he can read and write nicely, and owns $250 or $500 worth of real estate. Qulestion. WoTld that not exclude a great many white people from the ballot-box? Answer. It would. Question. Do they apply that rule to white people as well as colored? lAnswer. They say so. They say they would like to have a law of that sort; but at the sanme time we know that it would exclude two-thirds of the colored people. (Questiosn. What is the feeling in regard to educating your people, among this same people that want these qualifications for suffrage; are they in favor of schools to educate your people? Aniswer. They say they are, but then they do nothing to help them; in conversation they will say they are in favor of them, but they will do nothing toward helping them. Qulestionl. When schools are established do they help them along, and assist them in getting houses, &c.? A4nswer. No, sir. Question. Do any of them ever engage in teaching? Ansucer. No, sir. Qlestion. How do they treat teachers of colored schools, when there are any? Anllser. They are mostly treated with contempt. Qluestion. How do they show their contempt?!Answter. They do not have anything to do with them; do not keep their company, and have nothing to do with them. I can say, and be correct, that in Jefferson County there have been twenty-three schools during the last year. The schools stopped in June and commenced in October. I think there were three young men, who were born and raised in this State, who were teaching colored schools there. They were very poor, and were teaching for a living. The school board were paying them $25 and $30 a month to teach schools in the country. Those young men are not respected at all. Question. How is that want of respect shown-by any open manifestations? Answver. Not by any violence, but they are just let alone in a quiet way; the people have nothing to do with them —will hardly speak to them. Qulestion. Are they young men of good moral character? Answler. Yes, sir; they are poor, but there is nothing against their character. Question. Where do they board? Answler. They board in the country; I think one of them has a place of his own; in fact, I think two of them have places of their own, and one of them is boarding with a colored man, or living in a house with him. The house has some five or six rooms, and this teacher has a family, and boards in the house with him. Question. Does he board there from choice, or because no white people will take him? Answier. He says he cannot go anywhere else to board, Question. White people will not board him? Answcer. No, sir. Question. How have your elections been in your county; have they been quiet, or have you had any disturbance there? Aswccer. There was one disturbance there.

Page  103 FLORIDA —SUB-COMMITTEE. 103 Question. When was that? Answer. Last fall. Question. At the time you were elected. Answer. No, sir; I was elected four years ago; I was elected when the governor was elected. My district is an odd-numbered district, and I served four years. Question. What was the disturbance last fall? Answer. A congressman and a lieutenant governor, all the members of the assembly, and one-half of the senate were elected last year. The election was held on the 8th day of November. Along during the canvass there had been some threats made about trouble, &c., but the colored people paid no attention to them; in fact, I might say, that the republican party paid no attention to those threats. A few days before the election, I, in connection with others, stated to all of our friends that we hoped there would be no difficuly; that they would not bring any guns or pistols with them, but leave them at home. Although I had heard these threats, I made use of this remark to them, that the Sth day of November would not be a day of war with cannon and musket, knife, and pistol, but a war with the ballot, and with the tongue. On the 8th day of November the polls were opened, and the election went on very nicely and quietly. There were precincts open in the country, and there were a great many people in town. Tlliins went on in this way until al)out half past 3 o'clock in the afternoon. I had not voted then, and had been passing from one voting place to another; there were four voting places in that town-the county-seat. There was no disturbance, and, so far as I know all was quiet. After the difficulty, I heard that there had been some two or three insults and rows in the morning, but I did not know of them at that time. So far as I.knew all was quiet up to half past 3 o'clock. We were voting at the court-house, the ballot-box was sitting right on the window-sill, and the people would walk up to the window and hand in their ballots to the managers of election. About half past 3 o'clock I was up within ten feet of the ballot-box; ad majority of the lhite people had voted at that ballot-box, and they were all through at that time. As I walked up there I saw four White men standing right at the window, and there seemed to be no vot.ing going on. Some of the colored men, quite a crowd of them, a hundred or more, were standing outside waiting to vote. Some two or three of them hollered ont to me, " Mr. Meacham, the sun will be down directly, and then the polls will be closed, and the half of us will not vote; what will we do? I said, Go up to the polls and vote." I went up to vote, as I had not then voted. There was a man there by the name of William C. Bird. When I said that, he stamped and cursed and asked me if I intended to mrake those " niggers " crowd them out. I did not answer him; I heard him, but I walked off as if I had not heard him. Soon after he said that, he spoke out and sail, No damned nigger shall vote here." Still I (lid not answer him. [ went down to another window of the same room where the inspectors were and called them, but I suppose they did not hear me. I walked back to where I had stood at first, when the negro man had spoken to me, and Mr. Bird again said the same thing-that " no nigger should vote there." I then started to go to the window, and crowded in the best I could; there was a great crowd there. He asked me what I meant; if I meantto have them crowded out. Said he, "There are three other polls your colored people can vote at. This is our poll; it belongs to the white people." I then answered him and said, " Colonel, I do not think there is any one poll set aside for the white people, or for the black people. I only know that they are set aside for the citizens of the county." He said, "None of you niggers shall vote here." I pushed on until I got as close to him as I am to this gentleman, I suppose, [pointing to a member sitting about three feet from him,] when he said that I had told the colored people to crowd the white people out. I said that I had not, and he went on and called me a damned liar. I did not resent that, and finally he called me something else; he called me " a damned son of a bitch." I said, "Colonel, now I have not done anything to you; I have not insulted you; now you take that back." IHe said, " Well, I will die first." I said, " Colonel, you will have to take it back," just that way. I looked hin right in the face; I was up to him then; we were both standing close to the ballot-box. He had on a pistol, a pretty large one, with a white ivory handle. When he said, " I will not take it back; I will die first," he drew his pistol part out. He did not put his other hand on it; I knew he could not cock it with one hand. A great many saw what was going on, and the report went out that I had been shot by Colonel Bird. In about ten minutes all the voting-places were closed on account of the excitement. Then you could see any number of white men coming up with arms. I suppose in about ten or fifteen minutes there were about a thousand colored men on the ground with arms, but not near so many whites. I suppose there were nearly a thousand shots fired off in the air, but no one was hurt at all. I heard some white men say, " We were prepared for you all with guns. " I (lo not know this, but I was told by a man who said he was certain of it that there were about two hundred men there from Georgia. Jefferson County joins Georgia, and I am sure of one thing, that when the thing was first started, a great many men got on their horses and went off in the direction of Georgia, and did not return; I saw that lmyself. Finally the thing was quieted down and no one Was hurt at all. That took up about

Page  104 104 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. an hour and a half, and then the polls were opened, and they went on voting again. When the voting was over and the polls were closed, about five hundred people went home that night without having had a chance to vote. Question. If they had voted, would they have voted the democratic ticket or the republican ticket? Answer. They were all republican voters. Question. Did all the democrats get their votes in? Answer. Every one of the democrats had voted. Question. Did any one hear these Georgia folks say what they had come there for? Answer. Yes, sir, several heard them say; I heard men say so, but I do not know who they were. Question. What did they say their object was? Answcer. They were armed, and said they had been sent for to come there. Question. Did they intimate who had sent for them, or what they had been sent for to do? Answer. No, sir; they did not say. Question. Did they vote? Answcer. Not that I know of. Question. Where did the colored people get all their arms so suddenly? lAnswer. They must have had them somewhere; they were shot-guns mostly-doublebarrel and single-barrel shot-guns. The threats that I told you about that had been made during the canvass, and up to the day of election, were known by the people all over the county. It was as common to hear of these threats as it is'for you to look at your hand. Question. Were you armed on that day? Answer. I was not. Question. Di( your people exhibit any arms until this occurrence? Answer. No, sir. Question. How was it with the white people? Anszser. Some of them were armed with pistols. Question. This colonel exhibited his revolver constantly? Answer. Yes, sir; he had a pistol, and drew it on me. Question. He did draw it on you? Answer. He drew it out of its case. Qucstion,. He did not bring'it to bear on you? Answer. No, sir. Question. How did your difficulty with him end? Answver. It ended in this way: some of his people, after a while, came to him and carried him off and locked him up in a store. Some of them came to me, and I said, "Well, if Colonel Bird will say that he did not say that, I have nothing more to do with it." I did not want to have any fuss. Colonel Bird sent word that he had not seen me that day, and he said whoever said he had insulted me told a falsehood. I {-aid, "Well, I have nothing more to do with it." I do not suppose there would have been any fuss except that some one saw him draw his pistol out, and he got frightened and rln off and said that Colonel Bird had shot me. I do not know that they would have done so about any one else but me. Colonel Bird is now indicted in the United States court. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. For that occurrence? Answer. Yes, sir. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. Did you vote? Answver. Not at that voting-place; I went to another and voted. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. Colonel Bird has been indicted by the grand jury in the United States court? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Did you go before them? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And you testified to the facts that you have stated here? AZnswer. Yes, sir. Question. You caused him to be indicted? Answer. I expect so. I was summoned. Qutestio)n. And you went there as a witness, and gave your testimony as you have given it to us? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And he has been held to bail? Answer. Yes, sir.

Page  105 FLORII)A-SUB-COMMITTEE. 105 Question. When will he be tried? Answer. I do not know. Question. Was he intoxicated at the time? Answer. He did not appear to be so to me. Question. What is the whole poll in your county? Answer. I think the colored vote there is 2,500 or 2,600. Question. And the white vote is how much? Answer. Not over 600 or 700. Question. Then you are about four to one? Answer. Very nearly; yes, sir. Question. You were elected four years ago? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You were elected to the senate? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. How many counties in your district? Antswer. Only one. Question. Who were elected to the legislature when you were? Answer. Powell, Mills, and Thompson. Question. Were they all colored men? Anstwer. No, sir; Powell was white. Question. At this last election who were elected? Answver. Johnson, Thompson, and Logan. Question. Are any of them white? Answer. One. Question. Which one? Answer. Johnson. Question. Are the other two well known to you? Answer. Yes. sir. Question. Are they men of any education? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Can they read and write? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Both of them? Anuswver. Yes, sir. Question. When did they learn? Answcer. I do not know. Question. Did they learn lately, or since the war ended? Answer. I think one learned since the war ended, and the other learned before. I. have been knowing one of them for five years, and he could read and write when I first knew him. I am not sure when the other learned. Question. Were you bond or free before the war? Answer. I do not know how to answer that exactly, for my father was my master and always told me that I was free. He died, and left me acting as a servant to his wife's sister. I do not know whether I was free or not. Question. Did he give you any property in any way by his will? Ansswer. Not that I know of. Question. Did he give you any education? Answer. He gave me lmoney and started to send me to school once; I went to school for a day or two, and the third day after I commenced-there were a great many white children going to the school; it was a white school entirely-some of the parents of the children sent word to the teacher that if he was going to teach a nigger they would keep their children at home, and so I had to quit. Question. Did you learn to read and write before this war came on? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. From your holding the office of United States register in the land-office in Florida, I suppose you are a good penman? Answer. I can write. Question. What offices have you held in Florida? Answcer. The first one was register under the reconstruction acts under General Pope. Question. What was your next office? Answer. I was a member of the constitutional convention in this State. Question. To frame the constitution of the State? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Then you were sent to the legislature? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And you are there still? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What other offices have you held? JAnswer. I have been superintendent of schools in Jefferson County, and I was once clerk of the county court.

Page  106 106 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Question. What county is that? Answer. Jefferson. Question. Of the circuit court? tAnswer. Yes, sir. The way it was in the first place was this: there were some seven or eight of us who were appointed by the governor, county judges, sheriff and clerks. At the time we were under the impression that these offices would not interfere with our holding seats in the senate. The governor appointed me clerk. After a while he found that the offices to which we were appointed were incompatible with our seats in the senate, and he called an election to fill the vacancies in the senate. I resigned the office of clerk and was re-elected and went back into the senate. Question. Have you a system of public schools in this State? Aniswer. Yes, sir. Question. Schools in every county? Allswer. I do not know that there are schools in every county; there are a great many -. Question. Have you a provision for schools? lAnswier. Yes, sir; a large fund. Question. There is the machinery to establish them everywhere XAnswer. There is a law. Question. You spoke of a law regulating contracts between landlord and tenant? Answer'. Yes, sir. Question. Have you such a law as that? Ansvwer. There is a law to this effect: it does not prevent a planter and a tenant from making any kind of contract they see proper, but it provides that whenever the tenant has worked anywhere for such a length of time he shall be paid for that portion of his work. At the same time you can be turned off and paid up to the time when you are turned off. Question. It allows either party to void the contract at any period of the contract, by paying the proportion up to that date? Answer. No, sir; it does not allow that. It is about like this: you cannot turn a man off without a good and lawful excuse, and without paying him for the time; but if there is a good lawful excuse, you can turn him off. Question. Can he go off at any time? Answcer. If he does he loses his pay for what work he has done. Question. You spoke of some of the contracts giving the landlord a lien on the tenant's portion of the crop for supplies advanced to him? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Was not that necessary to be done when the tenant, as is generally the case, was a poor man; was it not necessary to advance means to support him while. the crop was maturing? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Was not that necessary? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Have not your people anticipated the value of their portions of the crop by running into debt? Answer. Some have and some have not. Question. You being apparently a man of intelligence and a leadings man among your own people, I will ask you if that has not been the trouble, to a great extent-that they have anticipated their shares by their expenditures when their crops was maturing, so that, when they came to settle up, there was nothing due to them? Answer. Yes, sir; with a great many of them, that is the case. Question. Is there not a great deal of improvidence in that way? Answer. I think, perhaps, there is; I think that in a great many instances it is so. Question. You think that at other times they have been treated unjustly? Answer. I do. Question. In the State of Florida. among decent and respectable people, what would be thought of a landlord who would let a man work in that way, and then turn him off upon some pretext, and not pay hii? Answer. It would seem hard to you or me. Question. I am speaking of the respectable men of Florida. Answcer. Let me tell you one thing in the way of an answer; I have been told by gentlemen, by those that I call gentlemen, and I suppose that you or any of us would call them so, that there is a thorough understanding among them in the way of seeing that the colored people shall never have much; they are united one with another to see that that is done. Question. That is not an answer to my question. You may go on and explain what you mean thoroughly; I will not stop you on that. I have asked you this question because you appear to be intelligent. What would be the opinion of respectable men of a landlord who would take from his laborer his wages in that way? Answer. Some of them would condemn him; but I will say that, while there is a

Page  107 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 107 general understanding with you and me about the thing; for instance, if you do it, I will agree with you, although I may talk against you. Question. You believe, then, there is among the white employers of Florida a secret understanding and plan to defraud colored people of their gains? Answer. I believe that there is some understanding with th hat they will manage, in some way, to keep the colored people from having what they have justly earned. Question. You believe that is the case? Answer. I do. Question. That is your feeling toward the white people of Florida? Answer. I do not say that all of them will do that. Question. You believe that, as a general rule, the white planters of Florida have a secret understanding to'deprive the colored people of the fruits of their labor? Answer. Of the full fruits of their labor. Question. Have you instructed your people in that way? Answer. No, sir; but I have told them to get homes for themselves; that they never would be much as long as they labored under these contracts. Question. You endeavored, by your advice, to dissuade them from entering into contracts with white plalters? Ansiwer. As much as possible; to go into contracts when they can do nothing else. Question. As a last resort, they are to enter into contracts? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. That is your advice, generally, to your people? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. How many white people in your county, do you suppose, vote your ticket? Answver. Not over six-the judge, the clerk, the sheriff; the collector. I think there are not over six. Question. From your naming them as judge, clerk, collector, they are the appointees of the governor; he appoints them all to office, does he not? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Those are the only white men in your county that vote your ticket? Answer. Pretty much all. Question. Does it come to this, that, under your advice and your belief, as stated here, of the unfriendliness of the whites toward your people, your parties are divided on the question of color and race? Answer. There is no doubt about that. Question. That is the basis of difference between you? Answver. That is so, generally, but that is not all; there is something else. Question. That is the chief cause? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. That forms your party? Answer. So far as politics is concernedQuestion. It all comes to that in the end? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Who is the justice of the peace in your county? Answer. Under the constitution, the county judge is allowed to act as justice of the peace, and then there areQuestion. How many of your officials were colored men? Anstier. There are two justices of the peace. Question. Both colored men? Answer. There are two colored men who are justices of the peace, and then there are other justices of the peace besides them. Question. What other county officials have you that are colored? Answer. There is one to my knowledge in Leon County. Constables are elected by the people at the same time that they elect members of the legislature. Question. The constable and members of the legislature are about all your elective officers? Answer. Yes, sir, in the county. Question. In your county that secures to you a man of your own color as a constable? Ansiver. Yes, sir; we can elect whom we please, but we alwa.ys divide among the few whites there; we will always give them some places. Question. You recognize those men among you? Answer. Yes, sir; we never put them aside; we would not do that. Question. You still keep those six white republicans in office? Answer. Yes, sir, and would be glad to get six more if we could. Question. What was your occupation during the war and prior to the war? Answier. I drove a carriage once, and superintended around my old boss-my father Until I was eighteen years old, I never did anything more than to stay about him and ride in the buggy with him; he was a doctor. Question. What is your age now?

Page  108 108 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Answer. I think about thirty-six; I am not exactly certain; but I think I will be thirty-seven next spring. Question. Until the war closed, your position was that of a domestic servant? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Are you pretty thoroughly acquainted throughout the State among people of your own color? Answer. I am better acquainted in the middle counties than in the other counties. Question. Are a great many of your color holding office through the State? Answ'er. Not a great many of them; there are some justices of the peace and some constables who were elected, and some county commissioners. Question. The county commissioners are appointed by the governor? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Are a great many commissioners in the State colored men? Ansl'er. I do not know of a great many. Question. How many do you know who are colored? Ansswer. I know of three in my own county, and of three in the county of Leon; one in this county of Duvall, and I think there are two in Gadsden County. Question. When your courts meet in your county, how are your juries composed? An2S'er. They are mixed; some white and some colored. Question. In about the same proportion as your voting population? Answier. No, sir; they are never over one-half colored men, and very often there are two-thirds white. Question. There are colored men on juries all over the State? Answer. Yes, sir; we have some colored men on most of the juries. Question. What is the official designation of the officers who conduct your elections? Answer. They are called judges of election. Question. How are they appointed? Answer. By the county commissioners. Question. And the county commissioners are appointed by the governor? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And the party which has the governor has the county commissioners and the judges of election? Answer. That is certainly so. Question. Then, running the State in that way, the governor is really the key to your entire State government? Answer. He has a great deal to do with it. Question. He has the appointment of the officers? Answer. The county commissioners are appointed and removed at his will. Question. And he can remove some of the other officers? Ansiwer. Yes, sir. Question. Does he appoint the State's attorneys? Answer. He does; but after he makes an appointment, he cannot change it. When he appoints one ad interim, the appointment'holds good until the end of the next session; he cannot change it. Question. Can he remove him for misconduct? Answer. No, sir. Question. Can he be impeached by the legislature? Answer. He goes out by not being confirmed. Question. I am speaking of a man who has been confirmed; if he misconducts himself, can the governor remove him? Answer. He cannot. Question. There is no means of getting rid of an inefficient or bad officer?.Answer. Not until the meeting of the legislature. Question. And they impeach him? Ansier. The governor recommends his removal, and, if the senate consent, he is removed. Another class of officers only go out by impeachment. The officers whose removal the governor can recommend to the senate are county judge, sheriff, clerk, State's attorney, and tax-collector, or collector of revenue. The circuit judges, the judges of the supreme court, and the cabinet officers are removed by impeachment. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. The white men in your county are pretty much all democrats? lAnswer. Yes, sir, very near all of them; except five or six. Question. There is nothing to prevent their joining the republican party if they want to? Answer. Nothing at all. Question. You have been asked with regard to labor; please state whether men who treat their laborers fairly and honestly, who give them a just and fair showing, have any difficulty in getting all the labor they want? Answer. Not all.

Page  109 FLORID — SUB-COMMITTEE. 109 Question. You have been asked as to your advice to your colored people to get homes of their own rather than to depend upon being hired. State whether that advice pro ceeds from the fict that in so many instances the hirers defraud the laborers out of their just wages? Answer. Yes, sir. JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA, Noveineber,,1871. HENRY REED (colored) sworn and examined. By the CISAI.RMAN: Question. State your age, where you were born, and where you now live. tAnswier. I am about thirty-seven years old. I was born in Virginia, and now live in Jacksonville, Florida; I lived in Marianna, Florida, up to two years ago last month. Question. Why did you leave there? Anlszer. The night assassins, or the Ku-Klux, or something else, raided me so that I could not stay. I was doing very well there on a place I bought. They knew my principles - tht I was a republican, and always have been. One night about 1 o'clock I was sick, as I am now, but a little worse; I had been to a doctor and got some medicine, and he told me to go home and take it, and rest quietly that night, and take very little exercise. At 1 o'clock that night there came a crowd of men there; they knocked, and told me to open the door. First Nicy said that Mr. Dickinson, the bureau agent down there at that time, and who was assassinated there,- wanted me at the court-house. I said, "Gentlemen, I am not able to go; tell Captain Dickinson please to wait until morning, and I will go down and see him then." They said, "You must go now." I said, "Gentlemen, I am not able to walk down there; it is impossible for me to go; please tell him to wait until morning." They said, " Come out here; you have got to go now." My wife got up, and I was going to make up a light in the house. One of them said, " Don't make up a light in the house." I was somewhat excited from the alarm, and being very feeble and sick, I said, " Let me get my coat and hat."; They said, " You won't need any coat and hat; come out." My son, who is about fifteen years old, hoisted the window, and jumped out. They shot at him one gun as he ran.through my garden-gate, and they put fifteen buckshot into the gate in a place the size of my hand. I cracked the door open a very small crack, and just as I could discern the men, I saw one standing at the corner of a house, with a double-barreled gun pointed right at my head. I shut the door, and went back into the house. They said, "If you don't come out of that house, God damn you, I will go back and get the balance of the company, and tear your house down, and blow your God damned brains out." I did not know what to do. Nobody had anything against me; I was apparently as square with the citizens as any man in the world; there was nothing against me on account of my behavior or character. At that time my wife camie out, hollering, " My son is dead, and they want to kill my husband." The one at the gate got on his horse, and apparently went back for the rest of his company. I went back of the chimney to the kitchen part, and jumped out of the window. I went over to a rich neighbor of mine, and laid down there until 4 o'clock the next day. Then some fiiends came there and called me. I would not answer them until I recognized their voices. They took me to a gentleman's house, and there I staid, I suppose, about three or four days. He then took me in his hack, and fetched me and my wife and children to Quincy, and I have not been back there since. I had just bought a place, paid out a great deal of money for'it, and had it fixed up real nice and comfortable, everything growing nicely, and ready for good living. They deprived ime of everything I owned there in the world, and Ilhave not had five cents from it. I hear very little, indeed, and it seems that I cannot hear from there. Qluestion. Where did your son go? Answetr. He went to that gentleman's house; he used to wait on him. He went there and knocked at the door, and they took him into the house. I thought they had killed him; I ran over there, and expected to find him dead; only one shot struck him in the ear; tle other shot went into thd- garden post, in a place the size of my hand, and right by his head. Question. Did you go into your neighbor's house? Answer. No, sir; I went under the house. It is a very large brick house, with arches about as big as a man could get through; I staid under the house. Question. How many men came to your house that night? Answer. I could not say positively, but I think my wife said about four men came there; two stood at the rear of the house and two in the front. Questioun. Were they disguised? Answcer. I could not say, I am sure; I only got a glimpse of the men.

Page  110 110 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Question. Did any of your family see them, so as to know whether they were disguised or not? Answver. No one saw them but.me and my wife; my son did not see them; he was running for life. Question. You say that one of them went off for some more? Answer. Yes, sir; he told me that if I did not open the door, he would get on his horse and go back for the balance of his company. Question. Did they come back? Answc'r. I do not know; when he left I left. My wife looked around and saw that he was gone, and I then made my escape. Question. Where did your wife stay? Answcer. She walked about the house moaning for her son that she thought they had killed. Question. Did she tell you whether they came back any more? Ansecr. I think she said they did come back after awhile, and it appears from the tracks about my neighbor's house that they mistrusted that I was there, and went over; there were heavy tracks all around the house the next morning. Question. Did you know any of them? Answer. I could not say positively; I might have an idea, bet that would not do. They had been seen frequently around there at night. When we came to church, there were men there with old black gowns on, and with old sunbonnets like women. Question. How many did you see in that disguise? Ansoer. Only one myself. One came into church and took a seat in the back part of the church; he looked like a woman, and when one of us went close up to see who he tvas, he got up and went out. Question. That was about two years ago that you left there? Answer. Yes, sir; last month. Question. Had there been any persons molested or interfered with in the county before that time? Answer. Yes, sir; numbers of them. Just about that time you could go into the woods and find two or three there. I knew a family who used to stay at the same hotel I stopped at. They went there and called him out of the house, and carried the man off; they carried the son and father first, and then the wife went after them, and they killed them all. Question. What were their names? Ansicer. Matt Nichols, Maria Nichols, and young Matt Nichols. Question. How long was that before you left? Answ'er. About three weeks. Question. In what part of the country was that? Answer. It was in Marianna, Jackson County, about seventy-five miles from Tallahassee. It was about a mile in the woods where they killed those folks. They seemed to get on the track of those who did that, but they left and went away. I have seen a crowd go out with a colored man pretending to look for some one, and they came back with the man's brains on their arms. Question. Who was that man? Answer. Billy Coker; but he skedaddled, and left those parts before I did. Question. How many do you suppose were mistreated in the county before you left? Answer. I do not know; there were a great many of them. I suppose if I were to say fifty or a hundred were mistreated right at that time, I do not think I would say any too many at all. Question. In what way mistreated? Ansler. By shooting at them and trying to cut their throats. In going to church at night they would stand behind a tree and shoot your brains out. They would take property; and go to a minister's house and make him come out and preach. Question. What minister?' 4Answeer. Caesar Ely was one; then another man named Reuben Wiggins. His family were badly mistreated. They went there, took all of them out, and ate and threw everything away. They took him and led him about all night, and disturbed his family a great deal. Question. Were there any persons whipped? Answver. I never heard of any being whipped. Ah, gentlemen, it was as terrible a place at that time as ever there was in the world. Question. So far as you know, has anybody been punished for this conduct? Answer. I could not say any more than that they said this: Some of the head-leading men of the opposite party said that all true republicans should not stay there; that if they did not go on their side, they should not live there in peace; that they intended to kill them or make them leave there, or punish them in some way or other. Question. Has anybody been arrested and tried by the law for doing these acts of cruelty and violence? Answer. 0, no, sir, we never could get at them to do that in the world. They pre

Page  111 FLORIDA —SUB-COMMITTEE. 11l tend that they never could find out anything about it; they appeared to be anxious to know, but it appeared to me that if they were very anxious the head men about that place could find out. Question. What had they against you? Answer. Nothing in the world, but they knew I was a true republican, a leading man, and tried to influence men to the best of my ability. I was never any speaker, but they knew my principles, my character, and behavior. I stand as square there as any man in the place. 1 have had gentlemen tell me that they did not know what they bothered me for; that I was a good citizen, and~ always ready to do anything in the world that anybody asked me. Thomas H. White and Judge Bush, as big men as any in the place, told me so. Question. Were these other people who were injured also republicans? A:nswler. 0, yes, sir; they never bothered any other kind. Any one on their side could stay there and do well. They said we should not stay there; that they intended to carry the election, and if anybody kept tihemi from doing it, they would have to leave there. I suppose a great many they bribed. I heard that at the last election a great many true republicans were changed by such acts as those. Qucstioa. Were there white republicans as well as colored in the county? Answer. Very few; and those who were there were almost afraid to own it, for fear they could not stay there. They killed Captain Dickinson and Doctor Finlayson. When I left there the truth was, that a true republican could not go there and stay in peace four and twenty hours; he could not do it, for I lived there and know. I do not know what it is now, for I have not been there since. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. All these matters you have spoken of, all these acts of violence, occurred prior to your leaving the county? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What month did you leave there? Ansiver. It -was last month two years ago. Question. In October, 1869? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You have not been there since? Ansiver. No, sir. Question. All these matters you speak of occurred prior to that time? Answcer Yes, sir. I have not beei there since, but I have heard of some being killed since. Question. What is the population of Jackson County? Answer. It is very large; I could not rightly describe it; I suppose from eight to nine thousand; more than that, maybe. Question. What proportion are colored and what white?'Answer. There are more colored than there are vwhite. Question. How many more? Answer. A good many more. Question. How many votes in the county? Answer. Colored votes? Question. I mean all combined. Answer. I do not know rightly. I staid at the box one election myself, but my mind has been tore up and bothered so bad I could not tell now. Question. What is the colored majority in that county? Answer. As well as I can get at it I should suppose it was about three thousand; it is very large indeed-maybe upward of three thousand. Question. Are there more than two blacks to one white? Answer. I think about two to one. Question. Two colored to one white? Answier. Yes, sir. Question. Then, at elections you have everything your own way in regard to your candidates; you elect whom you please? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Do you generally elect colored men to the legislature in those places? Answer. We generally elect one colored and one white. Question. Who were your senators? Answer. The last time I was there they were C. M. Hamilton, Major Purman, Mr Fortune, and Mr. Bryant. Question. Who were the white men? Ansiver. Hamilton and Purman. Question. Did you ever hold an office? Answer. No, sir. Question. You were not in the convention that framed the constitution? Answver. No, sir.

Page  112 112 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Question. Nor in the legislature? Answver. No, sir. Qiestion. You never held any office of any kind? Aznswer. No, sir. Question. What was your occupation? Anslwer. Carpentering and attending to my little farm at home. Question. Were you a slave before the war? Answer. No, sir. Question. You were born free? * Answcr. Yes, sir. Qutestion. H-ow long ago was it that the people you have named were killed? Anlswer. That was about three weeks before I left there. Question. You knew them? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. How far from you were they killed? Answer. About one mile. Question. Was it ever ascertained by whom they were killed? Answler. Yes, sir. Question. Who was it? Ansiver. Their names were young Billy Coker and Peter Altman; they were accused of it, and an attempt was made to arrest them; but before they could get hold of them they got away, and the last I heard of them they were in Europe, or somewhere or other. Question. Had they gone out of the United States? Ansier. They had gone somewhere. Question. How did they kill those people? Answier. The gentleman who used to own them said that the woman's throat was cut from ear to ear, and her hair all torn upby the roots; that the.rest had their throats cut too; they used to belong to him. Question. Who was he? Answer. William Nichols; he used to own them. Question. Did he undertake to prosecute those men? Answer. I do not know; I was very badly disturbed myself, and was for getting away, and did not know what was done. Question. You did not see those parties after they were dead? Answer. No, sir. Question. How did you know they were dead? Answcer. I saw people who went and took the corpses and buried them. Question. Those two young men who killed them made their escape to Europe? AnsIvcr. They have escaped, so I have heard. Question. You have spoken of other persons? Answier. Another brother to that one, Oscar Nichols; a brother to that same man was killed. Question. Who killed him? Answer. That same Peter Altman; I saw that with my own two eyes. He went out with this fellow and appeared to be hunting, I do not know what for; and when he came back his coat was spattered all over with brains, and I heard him say, " Somebody has killed Oscar." They said to him, "What did they kill him for?" He said, " I don't know." I saw the brains all on his coat with my own two eyes. They asked who shot him, and they could not tell anything about it. Question. He is one of the men has gone to Europe and got out of the way? Answer. Yes, sir: he is one who went. Then a colored sheriff that we had there, named Calvin Rogers, a good man and as true a man as ever there was in the world, and one who attended to his own business; they did not lik e him because he held office. They had him under bond, and did everything they could; I knlow some of the very men who went on his bond. Question. They made him give bond? Answver. Yes, sir; for $1,500, I believe. Question. For the performance of his duties? Answer. I think it was. Questionl. Was that required by law? Answier. I do not know; they had just as much law as they pleased. Question. Was it an act of oppression compelling him to give bonds?.Answer. I suppose it was; I do not know rightly what it was they had against him, but they alwa s tried to pick some flaw with him. They took him and said they were going to put him in jail if he could not give bond for such an amount; I think the bond was $1,500, and I and some more men stood it. After a time they got after him to kill him, and he ran off; this same young Coker and his father got after him to kill him, and he ran off. Since I left there I heard that they came up on him somewhere and killed him; I do not know myself how it is.

Page  113 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 113 By the CHAIRMAN: Question. Killed Rogers? Answer. Yes, sir. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. How long after you left was Rogers killed? Answer. When I came away they could not find him. He was a thoroughgoing man; he was a stump-speaker, and tried to excite the colored people to the right thing so far as he could. Questioit. Did he make public speeches? Answer. Yes, sir. He would work for a man and make him pay him. He appeared to be leading the other men who were ignorant and had not so much sense as he had, and they wanted to get him out of the way; they said they intended to do that and to get the very last one out of the way. Question. Of whom are you speaking when you say " they?" Answer. The opposite party; I do not know that I could call all the names. This Coker was one of the leading ones, and Mr. Barnes and several other leading citizens there. Question. You spoke of their determination to do so and so; whom did you ever hear say that the leading republicans should leave the county? Answer. Coker for one. Question. Who was he? Answer. Jimmy Coker, Billy's father. Question. Did he live there? Answer. Yes, sir; he kept store in Marianna. Question. What did he say? Answer. He said that all the leading republicans should not stay there; that they would carry the next election or kill the very last dammed republican in the place. Question. Who else said so? Answer. A great many agreed with him; I cannot tell all the names; Joe Barnes was one. Question. Did you hear him say so? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Before you left? Answer. Yes, sir. Whatever one leading man said numbers of them would hang right to him; Barnes was one of the head leading men. Question. Do you know any white republicans in that county except those who held office? Answer. Very few. Question. How many? Answer. I suppose there were about twenty or thirty scattered about, and at times they were almost afraid to own what they were; they were just merely on the balance; they knew that just as certain as they said what they were they could not stay there; they could not come right square out and say what they were. Question. Who was judge of your county? Answer. I believe Judge Bush was the judge at that time. Question. He held court there? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Who was the clerk? Answer. This Dickinson that they killed. Question. He had been an agent of the Freedmen's Bureau? Answer. Yes, sir; lhe was the agent at the time they tried to get me out that night. Question. Who was the State's attorney? Answer. A Mr. Milton, William Milton, Governor Milton's soi; he was apparently a very nice man. Question. Who was the sheriff? Answer. One sheriff was named Henry King, from Maine. Question. Where was Dickinson from? Answer. From Pennsylvania. Question. Where was Bush from? Answer. He is a native of Florida. Question. Who were your justices of the peace? Answer. It is right at my tongue's end, but I cannot get my head together -ightly to save my life. Question. How many justices of the peace had you there? Answer. I think Mr. Hamilton was one, and that Mr. Dickinson dealt in that way. I know that little things occurring on back farms about contracts would go to those men. Question. They had charge of suits brought by laboring men against those who employed them? 8 B

Page  114 114 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You elected your own constable there? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Who was he? Answer. Calvin Rogers, and Mr. King, from the State of Maiue. Question. Was Calvin Rogers a colored man? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And Mr. King was from the State of Maine? Answer. Yes, sir; he left there, and they had another man there by thp name of West; he was sent there a few days before I left. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. Who was the high sheriff of that county? Answer. Henry King, from the State of Maine. Question. Was Rogers a sheriff or a deputy sheriff? Answer. A deputy under him. Question. Did you have constables besides? Answer. No others besides that I recollect of at this time. Question. You do not recollect whether they had any constables or not besides the sheriff and his deputy? Answer. I do not recollect any in that place. Question. To what party did those leading men, Coker and Barnes, belong? Answer. To what they called the conservative party at that time. Question. They were opposed to the republican party? Answer. 0, yes, sir, bitterly; theyhated them. They got so there at one time that they would not give a republican any work, and if they went to sell a republican anything they would charge him double price; they had a terrible time there at that time. JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA, Novenber 11, 1871. B. F. TIDWELL sworn and examined. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. What is your age; where were you born; where do you now reside; and what is your official position at the present time? Answer. I am forty years of age. I was born in the State of Georgia; and I now reside in Madison County, Florida. I am county judge of Madison County at this time. Question. Our object is to ascertain to what extent the laws are executed, and protection is extended to life and property in this State. Please give us any information you may have that bears upon that subject; in the first instance, as far as relates to your county especially, and then, if you have information, in regard to other parts of the State. Answer. Well, we make.an effort there to execute the laws, but it is rather loose. I believe the county officers do their duty as near as they possibly can. Question. Have you in your county any organization that is commonly spoken of as Ku-Klux? Answer. I believe there are some there. Question. What induces you so to believe? Answer. From the sworn testimony of persons who I believe to be true in their statements. Question. Under what circumstances was that testimony given? Answer. Generally in' holding inquisitions. I have acted as justice of the peace of that county, and have taken down the evidence when holding inquisitions over the dead bodies of persons who had been murdered. Question. How many inquests do you suppose you have knowp to be holden in that county within the last two or three years? Answer. I think some twenty or twenty-five that I know of my own knowledge, possibly more. I am satisfied that there have been over twenty. Question. That number of homicides? Answer. We call them murders. Question. In the county of Madison? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Within how many years? Answer. Within the past three years. Question. Have these murders been of white or colored persons? Answer. There have been a few whites, but they are generally colored. Question. What did the inquests generally disclose as to the character of the homicides-how they were perpetrated?

Page  115 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 115 Amwer. By a party of men not known, armed with guns and pistols, who would go in upon a man in his house where he was asleep. Question. In the night? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Would they be in disguise? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Were these acts confined to any one part of the county? Answer. No, sir. Question. Has any one been punished by the law for any of these numerous murders? Answer. There has been only one man that I know of punished, probably another, who was said to be accessory, for any crime of that character, that I know of. There was a colored man executed there for killing another, but that was an open fight that occurred among themselves. Question. In an open fight one colored man killed another? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. He was arrested, tried, condemned, and hanged? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Have you known any white man in your county to be punished for any criminal act upon a colored manl? Answer. I have not, that I am cognizant of. Question. What is the difficulty in the way of ferreting out and bringing to punishment those who commit acts of crime? Answer. The trouble is in not being able to identify them; and when we have suffcient ground to issue a warrant for their arrest they get out of the way, loiter arou:nd a while, keep out of the way of the officers for a while, and then leave the county; some of them do; others I think are there yet. Question. Is there any indisposition on the part of the people to prosecute, or on the part of the officers to do their duty? Answer. I believe the officers are disposed to do their duty, but I do not believe that every one there, as a general thing, would give the officers the assistance necessary. Question. Suppose an officer was to summon a posse to pursue and arrest these offenders-a posse of armed white men-do you think he would have any difficulty in bringing them to his aid? Answer. I think so; but I could not state, of my own knowledge, anything in reference to that. Question. What has been the effect of these acts of violence upon the colored people? Answer. I think it has kept them from taking homes of their own, and settling down upon their own farms; they think they will be interfered with and troubled. Question. How has it affected the labor of the country? Answer. I can only state what I think; I think it has been a great injury to it. Question. What is the reason or excuse assigned for this violence? Answer. I have only heard one side of the question; the colored men say it is for the purpose of preventing them from farming for themselves; they are not allowed by this class to do so; they are told to go to some white person and hire out with him on his plantation; that is their statement. Question. Do you know what reason these people themselves give for these acts of violence, they or their friends, for I suppose they have friends? Answer. I could not answer that, because I have not heard. Question. Are there any persons in your community that excuse this conduct, or attempt to palliate it in any way? Answer. In making inquiries about these matters, I havegenerally found that they said the parties were accused of some crime-stealing, or something of that sorttherefore they are disposed to get shut of them. Question. That is, the parties who were killed? Answer. Yes, sir; I have heard it said by persons that those were the reasons why they had been treated in that manner. Question. Did they give any reason why they did not go to the law to obtain redress? Answer. Yes, sir; I have heard a great many say they had no law; that there was no protection to their property; at the same time, I thought they were disposed not even to use what means in that way was in their power; I do not think they were disposed to go to law. Question. I suppose you have laws to punish men for stealing? Answer. Yes, sir; Question. Can those laws be executed, and are they executed with reasonable efficiency? Answer. They would be if the citizens would give that assistance to the offcers that is necessary. Question. Where do your colored people vote at elections? Answer. They vote at the county-seat of Madison.

Page  116 116 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Question. What is the object in having them vote at the county-seat? Answer. I happened to be one of the county commissioners at the time, and my notion was that if they did not go there, they would be intimidated. Question. In other words, the negroes would be better protected at the polls at the county-seat, and could vote more securely there? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What, in your judgment, would be the case if they voted in the country away from town? Answer. I believe they would not have an opportunity of voting as they pleased; that is my notion; that is what I believe. Question. State, if you please, whether these murdered people belonged exclusively to either one political party or the other, or promiscuously to both. Answer. I think they belonged invariably to the republican party. Question. What has been the effect of these various murders upon the republicans of your county? Answer. I think the effect has had a tendency to intimidate both white and colored. Question. To give them a sense of insecurity and personal danger? Answer. Yes, sir. Question, What has been the character of the men who have been killed? Answer. I have talen particular pains in trying to ascertain and find out what the character of those men were, and in every instance they have been remarkable for their honesty, intelligence, and labor; I have heard no charge whatever brought against them. Question. Have they been men of influence among their own people? Answer. Yes, sir; the most of them have been. Question. What has been the character of the white men that have been killed? Answer. I think it has not been exceeding three months ago that a white man was killed at his house at night-probably 11 or 12 o'clock; he was called out of his house and killed by a party of armed men. Question. What was his name Answer. Allison. Question. What was his first name? Answer. I cannot recollect his given name at this time. Question. What was his character? Answer. I did hear from men who were there that he was disposed to take things that did not belong to him; he had never been arrested that I know of, and no charges were made against him in court. Question. When did you hear this allegation of stealing, before he was killed or afterward? Answer. I heard it before he was killed. Question. From what quarters did it come? Answer. It came from a man that I regarded as a very good citizen; a man who stands very fair. Question. You say there never had been any prosecution against him? Answer. Not that I know. of. Question. Was he a new-comer there, or had he been living there all the while? Answer. I think his father lived in that county; I think he was raised in Madison and Lafayette Counties. Question. Do you know whether it was generally the case when they killed a man that they afterward accused him of having committed some offense or other? Answer. I cannot say it was generally the case. Question. How have the negroes behaved themselves in your country? Answer. I think remarkably well. Question. How have they been in the matter of labor, industry, &c.? Answer. I think they do as well as they generally do in the different counties in the State; I think they generally show a disposition to labor. Question. Wherever they have been dealt with justly, and have had fair treatment, have you heard any complaint between them and their employers? Answter. None at all. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. When did you come to Florida? Answer. I came to Florida in the latter part of 1860. Question. Where were you during the war? Answver. I was in General Lee's army. Question. Did you settle here in 1860? Answer. No, sir; I came down here during the war; I was in bad health. Question. When did you make your residence in Florida? Answer. I have regarded my residence as here since the war; but I enlisted from here in 1861, when the war broke out.

Page  117 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 117 Question. What offices have you held in Florida since you came here? Answer. Only those of justice of the peace and county judge. Question. You held them for how long? Answer. For the past three years and over; I have been acting as county judge in Madison County since February last. Question. Has Madison County been your residence since you were in Florida? Answer. I stopped in Leon County a portion of the time. Question. And in Madison County for the past three years? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. During which time you have been justice of the peace and county judge? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Madison County is on the line of the railroad through the State? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Does the railroad pass through your town? Answer. It passes near it; I do not believe it strikes what we call the corporation. Question. You say you believe there have been at least twenty cases of homicide in your county within the last three years? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. During your term of office there? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. During which portion of that time have the most of these cases occurred? Answer. Up to within the last year. Question. Have you had any cases within the last year? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What cases? An swer. There have been two cases; one of this man Allison, and one of a colored man; I did not hold the inquisition upon either of them. Question. Within the last year you have had two cases? Answer. There have been two murders; I did not hold the inquisitions upon them. Question. Did you hold inquests upon all the others? Answer. Upon nearly every one; or rather I have held inquisitions on ten or twelve since I have been there. Question. Ten or twelve of the twenty are all you have personal knowledge of? A4nswer. Yes, sir. Question. And none of those occurred within the last year? Answer. No, sir. Question. They were all prior to that time? Answer. Well, I think that, in November a year ago, a man was shot; I presume within not more than a mile of the court-house; it was in hearing of the court-house. Question. Who shot him? Answer. We have not been able to ascertain who it was; I held the inquisitiou upon him; he was shot, and died within some forty-eight hours after he was shot. He had been in town hauling a load of wood. Question. Was he a white man? Answer. Yes, sir; he was a citizen living near town. Question. Did you get any clew to his murderers? Answer. A suspicion, nothing more; the suspicion fell against another white man, who has since died. Question. Was there bad blood between the two? Answer. That was the impression. Question. They supposed this young man had killed him? Answer. Yes, sir; he has since died. Question. Allison was a white man, who was charged with being dishonest? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Was that his general repute? Answer. I cannot say that it was; I was not personally acquainted with him. Question. Who was supposed to have killed him? Answer. I made some inquiry in reference to it; the parties who it was supposed did the deed went on horseback where he was living, killed him, and galloped off. A colored man living about a mile and a half probably from where he was, was near the road, and saw three or four men coming in a pretty rapid lope. Question. Coming from that direction? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Were they dressed in any particular manner? Answer. He was behind a fence, and could not tell who they were; he thought if it had been light enough he could have told; they passed very quickly. I asked him if he recognized any of the horses, and he said he did not. Question. Were the men disguised at all? Answer. He was not able to tell. Question. Was it a dark night?

Page  118 118 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Answer. Not very dark, but it would have been a hard matter to have got it out of him, even if he did know. Question. Was there any other fact than that those men came from the direction in which this assassination had been committed that led to a suspicion that they were the men? Answer. There were other parties living on the road who heard them gallop down from the house where this man was killed, and go on in that direction, but they stated they did not know who they were. Question. The facts were, that the man was shot, and three or four men on horseback came from the direction of his dwelling? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. That was all that was known? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Who the men were you do not know? Answer. No, sir. Question. That was how long back? Answer. Within three months. Question. And there was another case about a year ago? Ansaier. Yes, sir; near the court-house. Question. And the ten or twelve cases of which you have personal knowledge occurred when? Answer. This case of Allison is not included among those ten or twelve cases that I know of; they are only those I have held inquisitions on. Question. What was the character of the informationsyou had in regard to those other murders? Answer. Just as I have told you; there were two of them, I think, that I was able to tell who committed the murders. Question. How long have you had possession of that information? Answer. Probably a couple of days after it was done. Question. Why have you not taken process against them? Answer. We have. Question. Have they been indicted? Answer. They left and got out of the way. Question. Have they been indicted? Answer. I think there were true bills against them. Question. You have grand juries? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Who was your prosecuting attorney? Answer. We have had as many as three prosecuting attorneys since I have been there. Question. All of them appointed by Governor Reed? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. He appointed you to office? Ansiver. Yes, sir. Question. And the county clerk? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Does he appoint the county commissioners? Answer. He does. Question. Does he have the power to remove the county commissioners at his pleasure? Answer. I presume so. Question. They summon the grand juries? Aznswer. No, sir; I think the grand juries are drawn by the justice of the peace, clerk, and sheriff. Question. All three of those officers are appointed by the governor? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. The sheriff is appointed by him? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. The clerk is appointed by him? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And the justice of the peace is appointed by him? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. The grand juries are in session how often? Answer. Twice a year, unless we have a called session. Question.'Do they take cognizance of all these cases? Answer. I believe they have all been referred to them, so far as we have information. Question. Has the prosecuting officer sent in indictments? Answer. He has in some cases; as to all I cannot say. Question. In what cases in which indictments have been found did you have the names of the supposed murderers?

Page  119 FLORIDA —SUB-C O-MMITTEE. 1 1 9 Answer. I have not seen the indictments; but I was informed that it was so in the instance where the man was shot near the court-house. Question. The young man who subsequently died? dAswer. Yes, sir. Question. Was a true bill found against him? An;swer. I think so. Question. And his death has put an end to that prosecution! Answer. I think a bill was found at the last court. Question. And he has died since? A1nswer. Yes, sir. Question. He is beyond the reach of the law? Answier. Yes, sir. Question. What other man has been indicted? Answer. A man by the name of Barfield, for killing a young boy. Question. When. sAnswer. The indictment was found shortly after the occurrence, which I think happened in 1868 or 1869. Question. Was he ever tried? Answer. No, sir; he has never been got hold of. Question. Where is he? Answer. He left immediately, and went off to Georgia. Question. He went out of the State? Answer. Yes, sir; there was some effort made to catch him there, but he made another move, and I have not kept up with it since. Question. Do you know whether your governor has obtained requisitions for criminals who have escaped from your State? Answer. Yes, sir; I have seen large rewards offered in different cases, in fact, in most of them. Question. For persons who have fled the State? Answeer. Or for arresting them and convicting them. Question. Suppose those men had remained in the State, those whose names you know, or who were indicted, could you arrest them? Answer. I think they would have made an effort to have done it, and I think they would have been arrested. Qtestion. When you bring them before your courts and juries, can you convict them? Answer. I can only state as to one instance of the kind. There was a man who killed a party. Question. Give the dates. Answzer. I cannot; I am a poor hand at dates. Question. Give the year, can you? Ansiver. I will say it was during the year 1869, I think; I will not say positively. A white man killed a negro man there in the streets of Madison. Question. In the day-time? Anlswer. Yes, sir. There was a true bill found against him, and he was tried by a jury and acquitted, Question. Did you hear that trial? Answier. A portion of it. Question. Was it a'melee between the two? Answer. I thought there was pretty strong evidence to convict the man. Question. How was the jury who tried him composed? iAnswer. It was composed of the citizens there. Question. Were they colored? Answcer. They were white, I think. Question. Entirely so? Answer. I think they were. Question. Were you present in court? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Did you see the jury? Answuer. Yes, sir. Qlestion. Were there any negroes on it? Answier. I do not think there were; there might have been one or two, but I do nct think there was any colored man on that jury. Qusstion. He was tried and acquitted? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Was it alleged that he did it in self-defense? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. That was the character of his defense? Answer. Yes, sir; that is my impression. Question. That he committed the act in self-defense?

Page  120 120 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What cases have you knowledge of, among those ten or twelve which you have mentioned, where a man was murdered by a band of disguised men at night? Answer. From the sworn testimony of eye-witnesses. Question. State the cases in which that occurred-how many of those cases were of that kind. Alnswer. There was one case of a man by the name of Richard Smith, a mulatto. Question. When was that, in what year? Answer. I think that was in 1869; I cannot give dates closely. I have had a great deal of business in that time; I have the record at home, and I think it was in the year 1869. He was a laborer, and had some other laborers employed picking cotton. I suppose it was nearly thirty miles from the court-house. They had retired to sleep; they had permission from the owner of the house that he worked for to sleep in the cotton-house. I think there were seven or eight women, children, and men in the house. Late that night, they thought about 12 lr 1 o'clock, a party of men went into the house, and struck a match, so that the others all could see them. They saw that they had on masks; they described their arms, which corresponded with some arms that had been taken from a train on the railroad-arms belonging to the State; they described them so that no one could have had any doubt as to the arms, but from the masks they were unable to tell who they were. They shot the man, and left his body in an awful condition; they dragged him out of the house, and left him lying near the door. Question. His name was Smith e Answer. Richard Smith. Question. A mulatto man? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Did they do any other damage than that? Answer. He was the only one interfered with. Question. Was any one arrested for that? Answer. Never to my knowledge. Question. Were those people able to identify any of the parties? Answver. They were not. Question. How many men were engaged in that? Answer. I think they said there were from four to six. Question. Did you ever know of any reason suggested for this feeling against Smith? Answer. None; only from.what the other colored persons said, that he was a republican. Question. That they know? Answer. That was the only reason they were able to give; they knew of no other. I inquired pretty closely about the man, and found he was an industrious laborer. Question. That was the only reason they could give? Answer. Yes, sir; he had committed no other offense, and they did not know of any other. Question. That is one case; what other case of these ten or twelve was committed nnder similar circumstances? Answer. There was another case near Madison, some three and a half or four miles from Madison. A party had been out on some business in the neighborhood; probably had a yoke of oxen along with him. He was overtaken about dark, as he was going home, a short distance from the house. According to his statement the next morning, as I afterward heard, they passed him in the lane; he did not know who they were. He went on home and told some others, who were living with him, that there was some mischief lip, he thought. Question. He was a colored man? Answer. Yes, sir. And that they had better look out. The fact, as near as I can get at it, was that they had some guns. Some time during the night, late in the night, they heard a party coming, and prepared themselves for them; some of them got out of the house, and some of them remained in it. The party rushed up to the door, and.shot this man down dead; he did not speak but once or twice. Question. Did the others return the fire? Answer. There was one colored man who returned the fire, and it was believed he wounded one of them. Question. Did that disperse them? Aswot'. Yes, sir. Qucstion. They then rode away? A nswer. They were not on horseback; they hitched their horses some one hundred and tffty yards away from the house; I went there myself, and saw where they were hitched. (,!Qution. They were repulsed by that discharge?.Aswter. I presume so. (,Qicstion. Before that they had killed one of the number? lAnswter. Yes, sir; they rushed right up to the door and killed one of the number. I I y n~~-J -~I~ -~L JI V ~V CVL LJL ~L~V Y 1_Vl ILN I

Page  121 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 121 think this man who fired at them had been whipped and run off from his house; he lived near the Georgia line, he and another family, and he went down there rather for protection. It was the next day that I held the inquisition upon the body, and obtained this information from the parties. Question. Did he see the men who approached? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Did he recognize them at all? Answer. It was in the night; they had a light burning in the shanty, but they were unable to state that they saw any person they knew. Question. Did he say the parties who came there were in disguise? Answer. No, sir, he did not say they were disguised. Question. What other case do you remember? Answer. I remember a case that happened on Suwanee River, near Ellisville; I am under the impression that was during the year 1870. There were two white men who murdered a colored man who had walked out from the mill, Mr. Drew's mill. Thev met him in the road and just shot him down, and dragged him off a piece, and threw him into a lime-sink. Question. Was it known who they were? Answer. Yes, sir; one of the men who was present I had before me. Question. You had him arrested? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Did you indict him? Answer. I put him under arrest, committed him, and he was taken out ofjail, I think, by the county judge at that time, and discharged, he and, another party; I committed two of them. The party who he said committed the act lay around for a day or two, a day probably, and then skulked off; we could not find where he went to. We heard that he was in Live Oak, and the sheriff sent a warrant down there, but he was not found. Question. Was he ever indicted? Answer. I think there was a true bill found against him. Question. Has he ever been apprehended? Answer. No, sir. Question. In what part of the country is he now? Answer. I am unable to tell you. Question. Do you know whether he is in the State or not? Answer. I do not. Question. Has there been a reward offered for his apprehension? Answer. I think so. Question. He has not been found? Answer. No, sir. Question. He has got out of the way? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Do you believe him to be in your county? Answer. I do not. Question. Was this in the open day or at night? Answer. It was in the evening; I think it was late in the afternoon Question. The men were not disguised? Answer. No, sir. Question. They just shot him down openly in that way? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You had them before you? Answer. I had a party who claimed to be present in company with the men who did it. He said there was no resistance made; that he met him in th6 road, and just pulled his gun down on him, and shot him. Question. A case of willful murder,? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. He was discharged by the county judge? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Who is he? Answier. Judge Vann. Question. Is he county judge now? Answer. No, sir. Question. You have taken his place now? Answer. Yes, sir; since February. Question. He was an appointee of Governor Reed? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Are there any other of those ten or twelve cases than the one you have mentioned of the colored man, where the men were in disguise, in which the murder was committed by a band of disguised men? Answer. I am unable to tell you; I held an inquisition upon one body; the evidence

Page  122 122 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. showed that a party of men had murdered him, and there was a hat found near where his body was found, thrown off into a little pond. Question. What did that hat prove? Alnswer.. It did not prove anything; we could not prove whose hat it was. Question. How did that affect the evidence in the case; why did you mention that; as a proof that the men were disguised? Ansler. I said I could not tell whether they were disguised or not. Question. Does it come to this, that out of those cases there was only one case of a party in a band and disguised? A uszwer. That is the only one. Question. Have you any knowledge at all whether the other cases were more than usual cases of homicide, proceeding from revenge or ill-feeling of some kind? Answver. Well, sir, in this instance that I speak of, where the man was taken off and thrown into a pond, there was no evidence that he had any enemies. Question. He was shot by a single man? Answer. The circumstances went to show that there were more than one engaged in the murder. Question. You have no knowledge beyond that fact, and that is taken from the number of foot-prints, or something of that kind? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Do you think from those facts that it was anything more than an ordinary case of homicide? Answer. In this instance I speak of it was a quarter of a mile or more from' where the man was shot, and I believe killed, because there was blood there and one of his shoes was found; I have no doubt he was taken a quarter of a mile and thrown into the pond; he was a stout man, and he could not have been taken there by one man. Question. You spoke of State arms; did the State make any purchases of arms? Answier. I think that Governor Reed contracted for some arms that were on the way to Tallahassee from this place, and those arms were destroyed in our county. Question. When did Governor Reed make that purchase? Answer. In 1868, I think; that is my impression. Question. Whom did he propose to arm with those arms? Answer. I am unable to tell you; I never heard of any person that he intended to arm. Question. Was there ever any militia organization in your State? Answler. Yes, sir; there is a militia organization now. Question. Composed of people of both races? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Blacks and whites? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Have you ever known militia organizations of negroes alone? Answter. I have never known of one called militia; the people generally get up their own companies and have their own officers. Question. Are they armed by the State? Answer. There are none armed. that I know of by the State; no arms have been delivered to any militia. Question. No State arms? Answer. None that I know of. Question. Are the negroes through the country generally well armed? Answer. I am unable to answer that question; a great many of them have guns. Question. You spoke of one case where they were warned by one man who was afterwards killed, and they armed themselves and returned the fire? Answer. Yes, sir; they had arms; nothing more than double-barreled shot-guns or single-barreled guns; some perhaps had pistols. Question. Is it generally the fact that throughout the country they have arms of that kind? Answer. More or less of them. Question. You spoke of a place of voting in Madison, and that you, as one of the county commissioners, had selected it as a place of security. Did you bring the entire county into that place on election day? Answer. On that day we did. Question. What election was that? Answer. That is the only place that has been kept for voting, where the polls have been opened since I have been in the county; we have never opened any other polls. Question. Was that fixed by law or by the commissioners? Answer. By the commissioners. Question. Can the commissioners change the place of voting at their pleasure? Answler. I presume so. Question. Move it wherever they please? Answer. Yes, sir.

Page  123 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 123 Question. And have it at any point you choose to select? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What is the population of Madison? Answer. I took the census there last year, and as near as I recollect I think there is a little rising of 11,000 inhabitants. Question. Were you assistanttUnited States marshal? Answer. I acted as such to take the census. Question. What is the proportion of colored population and white population? Answer. I think that two-thirds are colored. Question. Two black men to one white man in that county? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. They outnumber them two to one? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What is the poll of your county? Answer. I think at the last election we voted some 1,800 votes. Question. How many were colored votes? Answer. I think there were not more than 350 or 400 white votes; there might have been as many as 500. Question. The rest were black? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You act with the republican party? Answer. I do. Question. You have everything your own way there in elections? Answer. So far asQuestion. I mean by that, that you always elect your own candidates. Answcer. Yes, sir. Question. How many white republicans are there in your county? Answer. That is rather a hard question; I could not tell. I believe there are more there than speak out and say they are republicans. Question. How many are there to your own knowledge? Answer. Of my own knowledge I presume there are twenty-five or thirty. Question. The official machinery of your county is entirely in the hands of persons of your party? Answer. I think it is at this time. Question. Have you ever in your life seen any men in disguise in this State? Answer. I cannot say that I ever did. Question. Have you yourself any knowledge of any such organization existing here? Answer. Not of my own knowledge; I have never been present at any of their meetings; we know it from rumor only. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. I understood you to say that t tht he negro who saw those persons riding away, himself standing behind a fence, would not be inclined to tell what he knew; why? Answer. I think he believes that if it was known he would be in danger of losing his life. Question. Does that feeling prevail very generally among the colored people? Answer. Yes, sir; that is my belief. Question. You have been asked your knowledge of a secret organization; I understand you to say you have no knowledge? Answer. No personal knowledge. Question. What is the opinion and belief in the community on that subject, and what is your opinion and belief? And state your reasons for your belief, whether there is or is not such an organization. Answer. Well, sir, the sworn evidence that I have already referred to, that was given in my own presence, is one reason why I believe an organization of that kind exists. Then I have'heard threats made, tnd I have heard men say that they believed that there was such an organization, men whom I thought were truthful men. Question. Is that the opinion among the republicans of your county, colored and white, that there is such an organization? Answer. Yes, sir; that is the opinion. Question. Do they trace these various murders that have been committed to that organization? Answer. I could not say that they trace them to it, though they believe that there is where they came from. Question. That is what I meant to ask. Answer. Yes, sir. By Mr. SCOFIELD: Question. You mean to say they have not been able to prove that the murders were done by that organization, but that they believed they originated there? Answer. Yes, sir.

Page  124 124 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. You have spoken about the State arms; I understood you to say they were taken from the train somewhere? Answer. That is what I heard, and that is what I believe. I have seen some of the arms which were broken, and brought into Madison, that were said to have been thrown off the train. I think there was a lieutenant sent up there to examine and look into the matter, and he said he had sufficient evidence to identify some parties who did it. Question. From the information that you have, I understand you have no personal knowledge, but from information which you deem reliable, do you believe that the arms were thrown off by the railroad employds? Answer. By some parties whom I do not know; no names have ever been given to me, and no parties have been described to me. Question. At what point were the arms taken from the train? Answer. At or near station 5, Sandy Ford. Question. In what county is that? Answer. Madison county. Question. I understand you to say that you have seen parts of arms that you suppose to be of them? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What was the character of the arm? Answer. I am now under the impression that they were the common Army-rifle. Question. In reply to a question asked as to the number of white republicans in your county, you said that there were more there than spoke out. What reason have you for saying that? Answer. Because there was an old gentleman speaking to me this last week, and he told me that he believed that the republican party was the correct party-was the friends of the people; that their laws were good. But he said he did not attend the elections. Question. What reason did he give? Answer. He did not give me any reason; he left me to draw my own conclusion. Question. He had never attended an election? Answer. He said he did not attend elections then. Question. What reason do you know of that would prevent men who are republicans in sentiment from speaking out and acting out their principles? Answer. I could not say they would be in danger of their lives if they did so, but I believe they think they would, and they would not be received and treated politely and kindly. I think that is their reason. Question. Is there anything like ostracism, social or in business, towards the republicans? Answer. I think there is. Question. State whether by reason of your war record, to which you have referred in reply to a question that has been asked you, you have escaped from this ostracism. Answer. I have not. I have my share of it to stand up to. Question. Does it extend to the families-the wives and children-of republicans? Answer. It is true, I generally conduct myself so as to keep away from them and not associate with them, for I know I would not be treated very politely, and as a general thing I never go into their company, unless my business takes me among them. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. Have you personally had any injury inflicted upon you by anybody? Answer. No, sir, I cannot say that I have. Question. Have you had any personal insult offered to you? Answer. I have heard conversations of parties who used language rather insulting. Question. Not addressed to you? Answer. No, sir, not directly. Question. But you have overheard conversations in respect to yourself that were unpleasant to you? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You have supported this State administration? Answer. I have. Question. And approve of its course? Answer. So far as I was able to. Question. Have you taken an active part in politics? Answer. No, sir, I cannot say that I have taken a very active part. Question. Have you been in any way a prominent man, a leader in the republican ranks in your county? Answer. I have not. Question. You have simply held the two offices you have mentioned? Answer. Yes, sir.

Page  125 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 125 By the CHAIRMAN: Question. Did you understand that those conversations you referred to were intended to be heard by you? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Men would use offensive and insulting language in your presence without turning to your face in a bold, manly manner and making known their purpose? Ansver. No, sir. JACKSONNVLLE, FLORIDA, Novemzber 11, 1871. DAVID MONTGOMERY sworn and examined. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. What is your age; where were you born; where do you now reside, and what official position, if any, do you now occupy? Answer. I am thirty-five years old; I was born in New York, and I now reside in Madison County, Florida; I am sheriff of the county of Madison. Question. How long have you been sheriff? Answer. A little over three years. Question. What has been the condition of affairs during that time, so far as the violation of law is concerned, and the punishment of men who violate the law? Answer. Well, since I have been there I have made five hundred arrests, speaking within bounds; I think maybe they would go over that. In that time I think we have had within the neighborhood of thirty-seven murders.in the county, and we have never been able to convict a man yet. Question. Have any been prosecuted? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Why were they not convicted? Answer. The jury would not do it; that is the only reason I know. Question. Can you give any reason why they did not do it; do they not have sufficient evidence, or is there something else? Answer. I take it that if a white man kills a colored man in. any of the counties of this State you cannot convict him. Question. Have you known any instances of white men being tried for killing colored men? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Mention some of them. Answer. One man by the name of John T. Glass, for killing a colored man of the name of Oscar Tension. Question. Where did that killing take place? Answer. In Madison, right opposite the court-house; I was sitting in my office and saw him do it. Question. What were the circumstances about the killing? Answer. As far as I understand, I was too far away to hear what was said, they had had some words about something. They were sitting in front of a store and had had some words there, and this colored man Tension called him a liar or something. I was busy in my office at the time and turned around for a moment, and when I looked again I saw that Tension had a chair and Glass had an ax. Glass cut him three times, once in the side and twice in the arm.. He died in about fifteen minutes afterward. Question. Who began the fight, as you understood? Answer. Well, I do not remember now. Question. Do you know whether the negro commenced the fight on the white man or the white man on the negro? Answer. I think the colored man asked him to come out; I think there was a little feeling between them, but I do not know that to be a fact. Question. Have you known any other cases to be tried in that county, excepting that case, of a white man killing a negro? Anssier. That was the only one; we could never get the grand jury to find a bill against any one after that, hardly. Question. Of these thirty-seven murders, which you say have occurred in your county, how many were of white men and how many of colored men? Answer. I think there were only about three white men killed. A man by the name of Smith was killed; a man by the name of Quiet was shot in the evening. As far as we could learn he had a difficulty with some of his neighbors; and a man was shot about six weeks ago by the name of Allison. Question. How was the first white man killed, Smith? Answer. A colored man by the name of Turner Woods killed him; he came in town

Page  126 126 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. drunk and had some difficulty with this colored man, fired a pistol at him and shot him through the rim of his hat. This colored man went into a store and got a musket and came out and met him on the street and shot him. Qlestion. How was Allison killed? Answer. He lives about eighteen miles from the town; he was killed about half past 12 o'clock at night. Three men went to his house and called him out, and fired at him, and killed him. Question. Were his family there? lAnswer. No, sir; his family reside there, but his wife was not there at the time; she was in Taylor County. He was running a plantation there for a lady whose name I forget. Question. How was it known that three men came there and called him out? Answer. His little boy was there. Question. That was the information the boy gave? Anslwer. Yes, sir; and some colored people who were coming from church at the time saw those three men ride away after the shots were heard. Question. Have there been any persons whipped in your county? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. How many, and in what parts of the county? Answer. In the upper portion of the county, on the Georgia line; I have heard of some four or five. Question. How recently? Answer. The last I heard of was about six weeks ago. Question. By whom were they whipped? Answer. By some white people there, so they tell me. Question. Was it in tle day-time, or in the night? Anszwer. In the night-time. Question. Do you know whether they were disguised? Answver. I do not know whether they were or not, but it strikes me that they were; at least that is what the party said, I-think. Question. You spoke of having made five hundred arrests in your county? Answer. I should judge there were about that many. Question. Were they arrests of white men, or of colored men? Answer. Of all kinds, white and colored. Question. What were the offenses for which they were arrested? Answer. Assault and battery, whipping, larceny, and everything of that sort. Qu!estion. How many persons have been arrested for these thirty-seven murders? Answer. Well, I do not know exactly how many. Question. How many have been arrested for these whippings you have spoken of? Alnswer. I do not think there has been any. Question. Has anybody been punished by the law for these whippings? Adinswer. No, sir. Question. Any for the murders? Answer. They convicted this colored man for killing the white man. He was granted a new trial, and there being no jail in our county I took him to Hamilton County, and he escaped from there. A whole lot got out there one night-some seven or eight of them. Question. He was convicted and a new trial granted, and he then escaped from prison? Answier. Yes, sir. Question. Is there in your county, to your knowledge, or upon reliable information, an organized band of people who generally go by the name of Ku-Klux? JAnswer. I think there is. Question. Give your reasons for thinking so. Answler. My reasons are these: I have had a gentleman tell me that he was solicited to join an organization of that kind, and he told them he would not do it. Question. What was his name? Answer.. R. H. Willard. Question. Did he tell you who solicited him? Answer. He did not; he said he had been solicited. Question. How long ago did he tell you this? Answer. Maybe six weeks or two months. Question. Have you any other reason for thinking there is such an organization in your county? Anlswer. 0, yes, I have. There was a colored man there by the name of Gent, who was killed about three miles from town by a body of men, some of whom I have since understood came from Hamilton County. Some two years ago we had a man arrested in the upper portion of the county, I disremember his name now. There was a colored family there by the name of Scarbord, who had rented land. He had had some difficulty with some man living next to him, something about some hogs that

Page  127 FLORIDA —SUB-COMMITTEE. 127 were missing. His daughter was whipped and his wife was whipped; I will not be certain whether they whipped him or not, but they were driven okf and he cambe down to town the next day and made his complaint before Mr. Tidwell. He issued a warrant and I went up to arrest the man he made the complaint against. The man was a hired hand, living with a man of the name of William Sapp. He told me that he did not belong to any such organization; but he said there was such an organization in that part of the county, and not only there, but it went over into Georgia. I asked him how he knew, and he said he had not been asked to join, but he was the kind of man they would like to have; a young man who would be able to go around at night on horseback, and all that. He said he told them he did not want to join any such band as that. I asked him how they operated. He said if there was anything to be done down in our county they sent word across the line into Georgia, and the party came from there; and if there was anything to be done over there a party would go fiom our county over there. Question. Did he tell you how he got his information? Answer. He said he got it from old man Sapp, the man he was living with. Question. Have you any idea of the number of the organization? Answer. I have not. Question. Have you ever heard any one speak of the number? Ansiuer. I have heard one person speak of the number, who said he could just blow his horn and have eighty at his call at any time. Question. Who was that man? Answer. A man by the name of McClary. He said this while he was under the influence of liquor. Question. Was this said in town? Answer. Yes, sir, in my room. Question. How came he to speak of it? Answer. I do not know how he came to speak of it. He had always pretended to think a great deal of me; he lived right across the street from where I was boarding, and had a little girl who used to come over to the house. I do not know exactly how he came to speak of it, but I know he said so. Question. Have there been any other acts of violence besides these murders and whippings? Have you had any burning or anything of that sort in your county? Answer. Yes, sir; I had a store and a stock of goods burned on the 17th of last December. Question. Had you any reason to judge whether it was done by accident or by an incendiary? Answer. I think it was set on fire; in fact, I know it was as well as I know anything that I did not see myself. Question. Have any other persons been burned out? Answer. There was a man burned out there last Monday night. Mr. Katzenberg, a former senator from our county, has had his store set on fire twice. They have not succeeded so far in burning him out. Question. Who was the man burned out last Monday? Answer. Captain Hausman. Question. Has there been any interference with elections, or disturbances on election days in your county? Answer. Well, I do not know that there has been to any great extent. I know that at the last election seven or eight companies of men came there mounted and armed. Question. What did they do after they came in town? Answer. They rode around the town; they came in town the night before election, and I am satisfied that a great many colored men were kept away from the polls by it; I know there were some. Question. Have you been a soldier? Answer. No, sir, I was not in the army. Question. My object in asking you that question was, if you had been in the army, to obtain your judgment whether those men had been drilled and organized, or whether they were mere chance companies of men? Answer. They were all organized, every one of them. I was in the employ of the Government during the war, and before the war. Question State how far the victims of those murders and whippings and burnings have belonged to either one or the other political party? Answer. So far as I know anything about them, they all belong to the republican party. Question. Was that the case with the men who were burned out or attempted to be burned out? Answer. Mr. Katzenberg was a former senator from our county, and a republican; Mr. Hausman voted the republican ticket; Mr. Eagan, our senator there at this time, and myself, are republicans. Question. That was the case with the people who were whipped?

Page  128 128 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Answer. Yes, sir; you can count on every colored man being a republican; that is, if they are not interfered with, they will vote the republican ticket. Question. What is the difficulty in the way of punishing these offenders? Answer. You cannot get a jury to convict them. Question. Will your grand juries indict them? Answer. Sometimes they will and sometimes they will not. Question. After your grand juries find bills, have you any trouble in arresting the men? Answer. Yes, sir, you cannot find them at all. Question. How do they know they are to be arrested? Answer. That I cannot tell. Question. The proceedings of the grand jury are secret, are.they not? Answer. They are supposed to be. Question. And when their bills are returned into court, they would be known only to the officers of the court? Answer. That is all. Question. Do the persons indicted seem to have information to enable them to escape, or how is it? Answer. I cannot find them when I go for them or send for them. Question. In your judgment, what is the real fact about it? Answer. I think they get information from members of the grand jury. Question. Have you ever been in any way molested in the discharge of your duties as sheriff? Answer. Well, not seriously, not to amount to anything. Question. Has any attack ever been made upon you? Answer. In the discharge of my duty? Question. Yes, or otherwise? Answer. Yes, sir, there has been. Question. Of what character? Answer. About two or three weeks before our last election, I was shot at as I was going home. 1 was residing in the country, running a plantation there. I staid out in the country, and Mr. Eagan attended to the business in townl. I came to the train about 11 o'clock at night. Our partnerin the store in town, Mr. Schlesinger, was there seeing some friends. I generally asked some one to go out with me at night; I asked him to go with me. When we got about half way, about two miles, we were met by ten men, and fired at. My horse was shot in two places; my buggy was shot in twwo places, and I was turned over, and had to stay in the woods all night. Question. Was any injury done to yourself? Answer. No, sir. Question. How many shots were there in all? Answer. I do not know. I suppose some eight or ten. There were two shots in the horse and two or three in the buggy; and the next day they counted a half dozen shots in a tree by the road side. Question. Do you know any of the parties? Answer. I do not. Question. Were they in disguise? Answer. I do not think all of them were; some of them might have been, but I could not recognize them. They had been at my house before that; I keep a colored woman there as cook, and her son and husband were there; they came to my house and inquired if I was there, and they said I had gone on to town; they said they had some word from a man in Taylor County, of the name of Crews, and they wanted to see me; they said they would go on to town, and meet me. I lived about four miles from town. and when I got about half way I met six men; first I met two, and they asked me where Mr. Montgomery lived; I said I was Mr. Montgomery; they said they had a message for me-that Mr. Crews wanted to see me, and they would be up to Madison the next day. I did not stop my horse-I was walking up a hill-I said, "All right;" I went down a little further and met four more, and I went on a little further and met four more; they stood two -on each side of the road, and as soon as I passed the last four, Mr. Schlesinger said, "Those men are all armed;" I did not pay any attention to that until I saw the last four. As soon as I turned around, I saw they were all armed. and I put whip to my horse and started; I had not got more than fairly started before they came after me and fired. Question. How were they armed? Answer. With guns and muskets. Question. Who was Mr. Crews? Answer. He was the former representative from Taylor County in the lower house.. Question. Had he expressed any wish to see you? Anlswser. No, sir. Question. Hlave you seen him since? Answer. Yes, sir; he had no business with me at all; I never speak with the man.

Page  129 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 129 Question. Have any of your citizens been notified or warned, by writing or otherwise, of dangers that hung over them? Answer. I think so. Question. In what way? Answer. By letters. Question. Have you any of those letters? Answer. I have not. Question. What is the character of those letters? Answer. One colored man, a justice of the peace, of the name of Hall, fetched a letter some time ago, and showed it to us; it said that he had to resign, or, if he did not, he would be attended to. Question. How was it signed? Answer. It was signed K. K. K. Question. Have you known of any other instances? Answer. A colored man I had under me as deputy sheriff, by the name of Sampson, got a letter a year ago and better, may be. Question. Was that of a similar character? Answier. I believe it was. Question. Have you known of other similar. notices? Answer. I have not. Question. Have you had any served upon yourself? Answer. No, sir. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. You say you have made some five hundred arrests in your county? Answer. I think so; a large number-about that number. At the first county court we had there we had sixty-three cases. Question. In what year was that? Answer. The government went into operation in 1868, but the county court did not get running until 1869. Question. How many of those cases were homicides? Answer. None in the county court. Question. Then those arrests were for petty offenses? Answler. For everything; mostly for misdemeanors, larcenies, &c. Question. Against whom were most of the writs directed-against black people or white people? Answer. The most of them against colored people; that is, in the county court. Question. What is the court that has criminal jurisdiction? Answer. The circuit court. Question. Who is judge of that court? Answer. Judge Bryson. Question. That is the court before which all cases of homicide would be brought? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. How many of those have ever been brought to trial? Answer. There have been a great many of them. Question. How many? Answer. I cannot say exactly. Question. You have mentioned the case of a man by the name of Glass; when was he tried? Answer. I think it was in 1869. Question. He was acquitted? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. On the ground of self-defense? Answcer. Yes, sir. Question. You saw the trial? Answier. I did. Question. You were in court at that time? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You attend the court as sheriff of the county? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. It is your duty to be there? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. How was the jury composed? Ansiver. I think the jury that tried him were of white men. Question. How are your juries generally composed? Answer. Well, about half and half; that is, the regular venire is about half and half. Question. What is the proportion of the two colors in your county? Answler. About three to one, perhaps. Question. Three blacks to one white? Answver. Well, at our last election we polled thirteen hundred or fourteen hundred 9B

Page  130 130 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. republican votes and a little over six hundred democratic votes; there were some few white republicans. Question. How many white republicans do you think you have in your whole county? A swer. Maybe forty, maybe fifty, maybe more; if we could get them all out, maybe we could get up a hundred; the difficulty is to get them out to vote; they will not do it. Question. Is there any trouble in getting the negroes out? Answler. Yes, sir; we ought to have polled two hundred or three hundred more votes at the last election. Question. You polled as many as you have stated? Answer. Yes, sir; we had six hundred and thirty majority for the republican ticket. Question. In a poll of eighteen hundred? Answer. Yes, sir, and we ought to have had two or three hundred more. Question. Do you know any man who belongs to any secret political organization? Answer. I do not. Question. Do you know any man who has told you he belonged to any such organization? Answer. As I said before, this man McClary told me that all he had to do was to toot his horn, as he expressed it, and he could get eighty at his call at any time. Question. You say he had been drinking at the time he made that statement? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And made it to you in your own office in Madison? Answer. In my own room. Question. He lives in town? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What is his business? Answer. He kept a livery stable. Question. That was his statement? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And another man told you that he had got some information from old man Sapp Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Did that man Sapp give you any information? Answer. I got it from this man who was arrested, and who was working for old man Sapp. Question. Then your knowledge was that a man you knew Answer. I did not know him at all; I arrested him for whipping this old man Scarboro and his family. Question. A man you had in custody whose antecedents you knew nothing of, who!iad no personal knowledge himself of the transaction, told you that he had derived some knowledge from old man Sapp? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Do you know where old man Sapp got his knowledge? Answer. He said that old man Sapp was a member of the order, or knew all about it. Question. He is a citizen of the county? Answer. Yes, sir; he lives up on the Georgia line. Question. Have you ever met with resistance in serving process? Answer. Well, sir, I have not myself, personally; I had a case that occurred a while ago with my deputy. A man came in town by the name of Packer, pulled a pistol on a colored man, and said he was going to shoot him. The deputy said to him, " Put up that pistol, or I will arrest you. Some half a dozen people stepped up, and said he could not arrest him. Question. He did not have any warrant at the time? Answer. He did not want any warrant for that. Question. He had no process? Answer. No, sir. Question. I asked you if you had any cases where your process had been resisted; I did not ask about your deputies without process. Answer. I had one, yes; it was in a civil matter. I went up in the upper edge of the county and wanted to make a levy, and the man told me I should not do it. I had to call out all the people he had on his place. I summoned out, maybe, fifteen or twenty, and they all came out. Question. Did you make a levy? Answer. I did. Question. You called a posse there? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And they came to your help Answer. Yes, sir. Question. It was a distress for rent? Answer. It was an execution.

Page  131 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 131 Question. You made your execution? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. There was no resistance after your posse came? Answer. No, sir; they were all colored men; I never could get a white man to come to my assistance. Question. They would not act as a posse for you? Answer. I do not think they would. Question. In a case of that kind? Answer. No, sir. Question. Have you ever tried it? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. In what case? Answer. In several cases I have asked them to come, ant they would not do it. Question. What did you want them for? Answer. To keep the peace. Question. When was that? Answer. Well, several times; they said they did not want to be bothered with it at all. Question. Did you go on and execute your process? Answer. The best I could; yes, sir. Question. Did you do it without resistance? Answer. Yes, sir; I have had no resistance to me, personally, except at that time. Question. And then you called a posse, which came, and you made your levy? Answer. There is no difficulty in making arrests, somehow or another, if I can get up with them. But the idea is this: you cannot, in our county, indict a white man and go and arrest him, if he thinks it is likely to be proved on him. Question. Do you mean by that that he evades your arrest and escapes? Answer. I do, and that he gets his information from members of the grand jury. Question. How often do your grand juries meet? Answer. Twice a year. Question. They find their bills at the court-house? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. The testimony is prepared by the prosecuting attorney? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Who sends it up to them:? Answer. The testimony is taken from witnesses before the grand jury. Question. The prosecuting attorney prepares the bill? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And sends the witnesses before the grand jury? Answer. No; he does not know anything about the witnesses at all. The grand jury sends into court the names of the witnesses they want, and the clerk issues a subpoena, and the sheriff summons them. Question. Who furnishes the names of the witnesses to the grand jury? Answer. Everybody; I do, sometimes. Question. How can the prosecuting attorney prepare his bill if he does not have the names of the witnesses? Answer. He gets the names of the witnesses afterward. Question. After he has prepared the bill? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Do you say the prosecuting attorney prepares his indictment without seeing the names of the witnesses? Answer. I do not say any such thing. Question. What do you say? Answer. I say that parties who know anything about the matter go to him, and he gets down the name of the case, and the witnesses are put down. Question. Who does that? Answer. The secretary of the grand jury. Question. According to your belief, the first knowledge the State has of the evidence is of the witnesses summoned by the grand jury themselves? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. They are not summoned by the prosecuting officer? Answer. No, sir. Question. He prepares his bill against the party without knowing any of the facts upon which the indictment is based? Answer. Only what he gets from the grand jury. Question. That is your knowledge of the proceedings of the courts in your county? Answer. I think that is the way it is done. Question. Are you clear that it is? Answer. I think so. If I am molested, I find out when the grand jury is in session, and if I want to go before them I make application, and I am summoned to go before the grand jury.

Page  132 132 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Question. As I understand you, the prosecuting attorney has no knowledge of the case until the grand jury have acted upon it? Answer. He may have some knowledge of it. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. Your indictments are founded on the presentments of the grand jury? Answer. Yes, sir. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. The method you have described has been the method of the prosecution of justice in the county of Madison since you have been there? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. When did you come to Florida? Answer. In 1857. Question. Have you been living here ever since? Answer. Off and on. Question. Were you here during the war? Ansswer. Yes, sir. Question. Where were you living? Answer. In Key West; I was not in the State all the time during the war. I came to the State first in 1857, and have been here off and on all the time. I have been all through the Southern States since the war. Question. What was your occupation before the war? Answer. Mason, bricklayer, and plasterer. Question. Have you carried on that business since the war?.Answer. Yes, sir. Question. In Madison? Answer. Right in this town and in Tallahassee. Question. Were you appointed to the office of sheriff by Governor Reed? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And you moved out to Madison County? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Were you a resident of Madison County at the time? Answer. I was a resident of Leon County at the time. Question. He appointed you sheriff of Madison County, and then you moved into it? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You have been there ever since? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You are a supporter of Governor Reed's administration and his measures generally in this State? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You spoke of mounted companies of men who came into your town the night before the election; how many were there in all? Answer. Some four or five companies of them. Question. How many in a company? Answer. From sixty to a hundred. Question. Did they all come in under one commander? Answer. Each company had its captain. Question. Who were they? Answer. I do not know who they were. Question. Was it in the night-time or in the day-time? Answer. The first company I saw was in the night-time. Question. Did they all come in together? Answer. No, sir; they came in from different roads, from the different sections of the county where they were organized. Question Did they come in regularly? Answer. Yes, sir, in cavalry order. Question. Were they disguised? Answer. No, sir. Question. They were citizens of the county coming in? Answer. Yes, sir, with arms. Question. What arms? Answer. Pistols, muskets, guns, &c. Question. They came in in the night-time? Answer. Some of them did, others did not come in until election day; they camped out in the woods. Question. Is Madison County an extensive county? Answer. It is a large county. Question. Is it thinly settled? Answer. Some portion is and some not. I think the census returns give us a population of four or five thousand.

Page  133 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 133 Qucstioni. You, as sheriff, know the distance you have to travel in ser ing process; how far is it from the eastern border to the western border of your county? Jn1wser. About thirty-six miles. Qu.slion. And how far is it through the county north and south?,Alswer. I should suppose it to be about the same; the county is -ery nearly square; mayle not quite so much. (utt./,ion. Is there a great deal of wild land in the county?,Answ'er. Yes, sir, in the lower portion of it. (',estion. Does that render it easy for your criminals to escape.? AnswCer. Yes, sir, and then they go into Georgia. O!estioin. You are on the Georgia line? JI)tesr. Yes, sir. Q(?tes ion. Is that the chief way they have of evading your process??,Answecr. I should think so; the court-house is not more than twelve miles from the line. QOeslion. Have you been about the country a great deal? nl tswer. Yes, sir. Quecstion. Have you seen people in disguise there? IAnser. No, sir. Q(tcstion. The bands you spoke of who came in at the time of election as you have tdscribed are the only bands you have ever seen? Answer. That is all. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. Let me see if I understand your grand jury proceedings. If I understand you correctly, a party who has an offense to complain of gets his witnesses, and they go before the grand jury? 1Answuer. Yes. sir. Question. If the grand jury think it necessary to have others, they give the names to the clerk, and subpcenas are issued, and they are brought in before them e Ansalwer. Yes, sir. Question. The grand jury examines the witnesses, and if in their judgment an offense has been committed, or the person charged ought to be prosecuted, they make their presentment, and upon that presentment the State's attorney prepares an indictment, and upon that indictment the party is tried? Answer. Yes, sir; that is the idea exactly. Question. Speaking in the language of the law, the indictment is founded upon the presentment? Answer. Yes, sir. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. Does yourprosecuitng officer never draught an indictment and send it before the grand jury? Answor. Do you mean just have him write up an indictment, and ask the grand jury to find a true bill on it, on his say so? Question. Not at all. Does he prepare an indictment, with witnesses, to go before the grand jury? Anlswer. Sometimes he does; but he resides in Columbia County, and therefore he knows very little of what is going on in our county; he never is there only at the sitting of the court. By the CHAIRMAN: Question,. In some States the practice is to have a bill of indictment first prepared by the district attorney, and then the bill, with the witnesses, is sent before the grand jury. In other States, the witnesses go before the grand jury; they examine the testimony and ascertain the facts in the case, and decide whether an offense has been committed, and then an indictment is prepared upon their finding. I understand the last is the general mode of practice with you? Answver. Yes, sir. I know it is very difficult for a northern man to live in the interior of the State. Question. Why? Answer. Because they say they do not want them there. Question. Who says that? Answer. Pretty nearly all the white citizens. Question. What objection have they to a man simply because he is a northern man? Answzer. I do not know hardly. Question. What objection do they urge? Answler. They say they have got no business there; that they can get along without them. Question. And are they made to feel that their presence is unwelcome? Answer. Yes, sir.

Page  134 134 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Question. In what way? Answer. In every way that a man could be made to feel it. Question. How do they treat men who are not northern men, but who are southern men, and yet are active republicans? An.swer. Just as bad as northern men. Question. What names do they call such southern men? Answer. They call them scalawags. Question. What do they call northern men? Answer. Carpet-baggers. It does not make any difference how long a man has been nere from the North, if he is a republican he is a carpet-bagger. I know they have made their threats to kill Mr. Eagan and myself, and get us out of the way, if possible, before the next election. After they made that raid on me, parties came to me, (I do not know whether they know anything about it at all,) and told me that they wanted to scare me away-did not want to kill me. They wanted to get rid of Mr. Eagan and myself before the election, and then they could carry the county. Question. How many white republicans do you suppose there are in Madison County? Answer. Well, if they would come out and vote, I think we might have from seventyfive to a hundred. Question. What do you mean by saying, " if they would come out and vote?" lAnswer. Well, public opinion is so strong that they will not risk it. Question. What public opinion? Answer. The white portion of the people. If a man goes there and he is known to be a republican, that is enough; he might just as well be anything else; he is looked down upon, and cursed and abused. Question. How is his family treated-his wife and children, if he has any? Answer. I do not know much about how they are treated; I never ask any questions about that, but I know from what they say, they are treated very bad. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. You are not married? Answer. No, sir. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. I understood you to say you had a store in Madison that was burned down? Answer. Yes, sir; it was burned last year. Question. Is it known that you have lived in the State some fourteen years? Answer. I should suppose so. Question. Is there any difference made between new-comers from the North, or from the old free States, and those who come from the old slave States; do they make any difference between northern men and southern men who are new-comers? Answer. Why, yes; I should suppose they do. Question. What I want to know is, do they make a difference? Answer. Make a difference in what way? Question. In their treatment? Answer. Yes, sir, certainly they do; that is, in this way: It does not make any difference where a man comes from, if he is a republican, whether he is a northern man or a southern man; he might as well give up the ship as to try and live there and associate with them. Question. How is it with northern demorats who come there? Answer. Oh, they are just as nice men as anybody. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. I take it from your account you are a pretty active political leader, are you not? Answer. Well, I do not know; I will do all I can honorably, fairly, and above board for the success of the republican party. Question. I do not mean to imply anything that is not correct. Answer. I did not suppose you did. Question. You mentioned the fact that you were obnoxious to people who opposed you in politics? Answer. Only from my political opinions. Question. From your activity in organizing your party? Answer. I suppose so. Mr. Eagan and myself are the only two northern men in the county. Question. You are leaders of your party there? Answer. Yes, sir; I think the colored people will do pretty much as we tell them, because they believe we have done right. I think we have saved that town a half dozen times from being destroyed. Question. How?

Page  135 FLORIDA —-SUB-COMMITTEE. 135 Answer. From being burned down. Question. By whom? Answer. By the colored people. The night after I was shot it would have been burned down but for Mr. Eagan. They hunted for me and could not find me, and they thought I had been killed and my body taken into the swamp somewhere. Question. And they would have burned down the town of Madison in revenge? Answer. They wanted to do it. Question. You think but for Mr. Eagan and yourself they would have done it? Answer. I was not there, but I think they would have done it but for Mr. Eagan. Question. Do you know who burned your store? Answer. I do not. There was a man by the name of Bryant, I had forgotten that, who was killed in our store. Question. When? Answer. It was right after I was shot at; I think it was in October of the last year; he came to town some time after I was fired upon, and was knocking around town; we had most of the colored trade in the county; he came in there only a few days after I was shot at, and was walking around town; he said that it was all a damned lie; that Montgomery had done it himself for political effect. Question. This man Bryant said so? Answer. Some colored men told me that he said so; that he said Montgomery had got the thing up, and they said that Montgomery had not done it, because the republican party was strong enough without it, and that who said so was a liar. The way I understand it is, that when they said that, be pulled out his knife, and said that he was going to kill anybody that called him a liar; some one hit him on the head with a crutch or something, and he died the next day from its effects. Question. He was killed in your store by colored people in a row? Answer. I do not know by whom he was killed. Question. Was there anybody there but colored people? Answer. Yes, sir; somebody must have been there, for I was in the country then. Question. Who told you? Answer. I heard of it when I came back to town; I had to go and arrest the parties who were accused of it. Question. Whom did you arrest? Answer. Coleman and Allison were the men I arrested. Question. Who gave him the lie? Answer. I do not know. Question. He was killed then and there? Answer. No, sir; he went out and went around town afterward. Question. He died from the effects of the injury? Answer. He diedthe next day. Question. From the effects of the injury?. Answer. He might have died from something else; there has been no trial since. Question. Has there been any indictment found? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. But there has been no trial yet? Answer. No, sir. Question. That was a year ago? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You are now and were then the sheriff of the county? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What is the population of Madison? Answer. About six or seven hundred; we have about a hundred and three registered voters in the town, and allowing six residents to each voter, that would make between six and seven hundred inhabitants. Question. What kind of a store did you have? Answer. General merchandise of every description. Question. And you had the chief negro trade of that county? Answer. Ourselves and Mr. Katzenberg. Question. That is what started your business? Answer. Yes, sir; we had very little trade with the white people. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. How long after this occurrence in your store before it was burned? Answer. That occurred just before the election, which was on the 7th of November, and our store was burned on the 17th of December, It has been reported since that it was burned by some of the friends of the man that was murdered. Question. I understand you to say that the parties charged with the killing of Bryant have been indicted? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Have they been arrested?

Page  136 136 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Where are they? Answer. In Madison. Question. Waiting their trial? Answler. Yes, sir. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. Are they colored men? Answer. Yes, sir; Coleman was a member of the assembly. Question. He was present at the time of the murder? Answer. I suppose so. Question. Whom did you elect to the legislature last year? Answer. We elected two colored men to the lower house and Mr. Eagan to the upper house. Question. Have you ever held any office in the State but the one you now hold? Answer. Yes, sir; I was collector of our county for a time. Question. Have you held any other office? Answer. No, sir. Question. Did you hold that office at the time you were sheriff? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You held the two offices at the same time? Answer. Yes, sir. JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA, November 11, 1871. JOSEPH NELSON (colored) sworn and examined. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. What is your age, where were you born, and where do you now live? Answer. I am going on twenty-two years of age; I was born in Calhoun County, Florida, and I now reside in Jacksonville. I stay with a gentleman here in his office. Question. How long have you been in Jacksonville? Answer. I have been here two years and one month. Question. Where did you come from here? Answer. From Marianna, Florida. Question. That is the county-seat of Jackson County? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Why did you leave that county? Answler. Because I could not stay there in safety; they attempted to kill me, and I had to come away. Question. What was your business in the county? Answer. I was following the carpenter's trade, and was farming at the same time. The last year I staid there I had a good crop on hand, but I had to come away and leave it to one of my brothers who is back there. Question. You are a mechanic by trade? Answer. I have not learned a trade. Question. Who told you that you could not stay there? Answer. They did not tell me that I could not stay, but they just said they were going to kill me. Question. Who said so? Answer. They never told me so, but I was told that I would be killed if I staid there. Jack Myrack and Billy Coker said they would get me. They came around to the stable one day before I came away; they saw me going there, seven of them. I did not know the rest of them; they were telling me what they were going to do with me. They wanted me to go down into the bushes; they said they had some questions to ask me. I said if they had any further questions with me than I had with them, they could go into the back yard. They caught hold of me, and wanted me to go into the bushes with them, but I said I would not go. After a while the man who kept the stable, Wash Chapman, came there, and wanted to know what was the matter; I told him what it was, but they did not say anything. They wanted to know where I was at the time of the fuss, and I said I was there. One of them said, "I heard you were going off." I said, "Yes, I cannot stay here, and I am going to Jacksonville." I had been here in Jacksonville one fall before that; I always come here in the fall, and I farm there in the summer. They told me they were going to have me if they had to get me on the way. One of the men said so; I do not know what his name was; he was a stranger to me. I told him, "All right, I am going; I have made up my mind to go to Jacksonville, and I am going." He said, " When are you going to leave?" I said, " On Monday;" that was on Saturday. He said, " You must look out for yourself; you

Page  137 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 137 will be caught on the way." I said, "All right; if anybody can kill me any quicker than I can kill him, just let him do it. My father has as good a double-barrel gun as anybody, and he told me to carry it along. I am going to take it, and I will not be stopped by anybody." They said, "All right; we have got you." Monday morning at 6 o'clock we were to start. They commenced shooting around, and about two miles from town I saw some parties. We did not get up with them so as to see them. There was a kind of swamp on one side, and a large field on the other belonging to Mr. Frank Ely. We came on down to Chattahoochee, some twenty-odd mile, from Marianna. About fifteen miles from Marianna some men with guns overtook us, and asked us where we were going, and I told them it was none of their business. Three of them rode up, and said, " Where are you going?" I said, " I am going to Jacksonville, but it is none of your business." I knew one of them; he was from down right where I came from. I had my gun across my lap. Mr. Chapman, the man I was staying with,'was on ahead; lie kept a livery stable, and brought me over. There were three wagons and two hacks; there were a lot coming down to the hotel. My step-father and my brother had to come away; they could not go home any more. They went there and run them out; he gave his testimony here this morning-Henry Reed. I was courting a girl there, and I went to see her; she was a white lady's chambermaid. We were sitting on the door-step talking, and the white children were there. Wljen the firing commenced, she asked where it was. I said it was down to some place; there was a Jew who had moved there, and they had been after him to kill him. Question. Was his name Fleischman? Answer. No, sir; he had been killed there; I saw the blood on the road where they had killed him. The reason I told her it was down there was, that when I came in from the plantation, I always went to his store to get what I wanted on credit. When I would get my crop ahead, I would go and work with my boss awhile, to make some extra money. At that time, when I was in the store, Billy Coker came in and said, " Give me a box of sardines and a box of oysters." He was about half tight. He said to me, " You arrested JackMyrack, I understood." About a month before that, when I had come into town, the deputy sheriff had summoned me to go out and arrest Jack Myrack, who had been shooting several colored people; he went into a white lady's house and tried to ravish her. We went out about a mile that night to arrest him; when we got there he was not there. He stopped at the house of an old man of the name of Bassett. There were eight of us. We were put all around there. When he came up, he told me not to bother him, he and another fellow of the name of Pete Altman. They had some whisky-bottles in their pockets. When they went by, they both had their pistols out. When they got up to the house, the deputy sheriff said, " Halt! who is that? " He said, " Who is that? by God, it's me." They then broke, and they snapped their guns at him, but they did not go off. He turned around and fired at them. The deputy sheriff hollered to me, "Look out, Nelson." I hollered to him, "All right." When he got to me, I hollered to him, " Halt!" as he was coming down the lane. " Halt, hell!" said he. By that time we were both right together. He was a large, tall man, taller than either one of you gentlemen. Pete Altman is a little fellow. Just as they jumped the fence, I snatched both of them and stopped them. I was more particular with them than any of the rest of them. They were harder on me than the rest. The sheriff came up, and then they put their pistols in their pockets. They did not search for their arms, and I said to the deputy sheriff, as we were going back to the house, " Are you not going to take their arms away from them?" He said, "Yes." When we got to the house, they wanted us to go into the house and take a drink, but the deputy would not allow us to do it. They kept on insisting that we should go into the house. I said to him, "If you go into the house I will not have anything to do with it, for he has guns in the house." He did not let them go in, for if they had got in there they would have shot us right off. I went up to Myrack and asked him if he did not have a pistol. I saw him put his hand on it two or three times, as if he wanted to get a chance to shoot. Jack Myrack would shoot you anywhere if he wanted to. We took the pistols away from them, and went on back. He attempted to get away once and I got him again. They put me to mind him, and he tried to get me to let him go to his mother's. They were going to put him in jail, and they sent me with him, as the deputy sheriff had to go off for somebody else. I went to his mother's, and she said," Don't you put your foot in my door." I said," No ma'm." I said, " Mr. Mlyrack, come back here, and I will take you back to jail." He said, " What?" as if he was writing; I saw he was not writing anything. He said, " I want to step in here and get a drink of water." I asked his mother to bring him a drink of water, for I had heard some one bring something there and set it down just out of the door. He was in the parlor, and I would not let him go further. I told Mrs. Myrack to bring him a drink of water, and she brought it. He stood by the door, and he seemed to want to get in there. He told his mother to open the door and she opened the door wide. He said, " I want to step inside of the door; you can come with me." Somebody had slipped him a pistol after he got into the room; I do not know how it was done. I found it out and took it away from him, and took him back and delivered him up. After that

Page  138 138 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. they were always trying to kill me; they did not like me anyhow, for I was always with the republicans whenever anything was to be done-in speaking or anything of the kind. They were down on me on account of that, and then at the time of the fuss they tried to get me out and kill me. By Mr. SCOFIELD: Question. Are you going on by and by with your story about leaving Marianna? Answer. I can finish telling that. Question. It seems to me you.have got off on a great many side stories. Answer. I can tell you about that; I will finish out that story of my getting through from Marianna to Jacksonville. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. These occurrences you have mentioned-your arresting these men, &c.were before you came away? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You have said that somebody had asked you if you had been concerned in arresting this man? Anqswer. Yes sir; Billy Coker asked me about it in the store. It was in the Jew's store. I forgek his name. Question. Was that the night your step-father was shot? Answer. No, sir; he was shot the next night. While I was there, in the store, he wanted me to be a witness for him; there was no one present. When he started, all went out. I was standing there, and he had one of these large pistols cocked, and went up and struck this man over the head with it once, and then told him that if he said one word lie would blow his damned brains out. I had been behind the counter; he allowed me to go around in the store. I was then on one side of the counter, and Coker wanted to know, after it was all over, if I would be a witness for him; I told him I would. He asked me what I was going to say, and I told him what I was going to say. He said, "No, I want you to say" so and so. I said, " When I come up before anybody to tell the truth, I will tell it." He said, "God damn you, if you don't tell what I want you to tell, I will blow your God damned brains out." I said, " What do you want me to tell?" He said that he wanted me to say that he went there, and that the Jew had insulted him. He had his pistol out when he came in. I told him, "All right," and he went around to the back part of the store, where there was a room in which he kept his liquors. Question. Who went back there? Answer. Billy Coker; he went outside the store, and went back there. HIe said, "Good evening to you, God damn you; I will get you before the night is out." Question. Did he say that to you? Answer. No, sir; to the man who kept the store. I was going on up to where the girl was, about 7 or 8 o'clock, and I saw him get down to the door, and then he got up and came running after me, and I thought he was going to shoot me. He said, "Don't you tell anybody you saw me get down there; I am going to kill that God damned rascal to-night." Question. What door was that? Answer. The back door of the store. I went on up to the house, and he went right back. When I got to the corner, I looked back and saw him on his knees there. The moon was shining just as bright as it could be. I was sitting down telling the children and Mrs. Chapman and this girl what I was going to say about it. About that time Mrs. Chapman walked out on the porch, where there was a stand and a bucket of water on it. As she was drinking some water we heard three guns fired. She said, "Lord a mercy! where is that? Some poor negro is killed now." I said, "No, I guess it aint; I left Mr. Coker at the store door stooping down." She said, " Well, I declare, Billy Coker will be hung yet." Question. That was the night Henry Reed was shot? Answer. No, sir; the night before; she kept on after me to go down and see where it was and who it was. We then went out on the front piazza; we were out on the back piazza before. I told her that I did not care to go down right away. She said, " You must go down for me." She then said, " Mr. Chapman, you must not go; I do not want you to go." I started, and then I come back and said,' I do not believe I will go." We all heard the hollering, and I went around to the hotel, and there was nobody there but old Doctor Boswell, who keeps the printing office. When I got there, he said, " Hallo, Joe, what is this shooting?" I said, " I do not know." When I got into the room some six or seven gathered about me and drew their knives on me, and I flirted away from them. By that time Jim Coker came up and asked where I came from, and I told him. He said, "' All right; go on round." He was then the main man to get a crowd up and go round to shoot me; he was going around to show them where to go. When I went back home, Mrs. Chapman went around to the hotel, for Mrs. Hathaway, the wife of the man who kept the hotel, was her cousin. They said that I had had something to do with the shooting; she said I did not, for I was at her house all the

Page  139 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 139 time. I got up and told her " Good night;" she said " No, I told you once you must not go; I declare if you go home to-night they will kill you; I heard them making up to go and kill you." I said, " I guess I can go home, and if I get home I will be all right." Question. Did you go home? Answier. No, sir; she would not let me go out at all. One day I ventured to walk down to the stable, and I saw these six or seven men together running around with guns. Question. How long was this before you left? Answer. The shooting was done on Friday night, Thursday or Friday, and on Saturday evening I went to the stable. They had a little boy who was sick, and I went down to get some shucks and oats together, for they had an English cow. Just as I got to the stable door some of the boys said something, and I looked up the street and saw some men coming. Question. Was this before or after the shooting at Henry Reed's? Ansiver. This was on Saturday evening, and they went to Henry Reed's house Saturday night. Question. Who was his son who was shot when he was trying to get away? Answer. His name was William Reed. Question. Your step-brother? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. That was Saturday night? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What day did you leave? Answer. On Monday morning. Question. Mr. Chapman went away with you? Answver. Yes, sir; I hired his whole team myself. Question. Where did you strike the railroad. lAnswer. At Quincy. Question. You spoke of those men you saw coming in carriages? Answer. I did not say I saw any coming in carriages; I saw three men on horses, who overtook us. They came to us and asked us where we were going. Question. Did you know the men? Answer. I knew one who came from town; I did not know his name; the other two I did not know. Question. Did they molest you in any way? Answer. They asked me where I was going, and I said, "To Jacksonville; it is none of your business." I ~aid no more; the other parties were sitting there, and they made me hush. He said, "We will find out where you are going." They then broke on right straight down the road ahead of us. Question. Did you see any more of them? Answer. We followed them; we had a good dead road, just level; you could trot a heavy train right along. They went on and we saw them fur about two miles, and then they disappeared in a bend of the road. We went on about a mile further, and then we saw them away across in the pine woods; that was within fifteen miles of Chattahochee when we first saw them. They then went across'n there. Question. You came back to Jacksonville and have not been back there since? Answe'. No, sir. Question. Who fired those three shots you spoke of hearing while you were on the back porch of Mr. Chapman? Answer. I do not know who fired them; I know who fired one; Mr. Billy Coker fired one. Question. That was the time you ran down to see who had done it? Answer. The firing was all over before I started; I did not know who had done the shooting at all. Mr. Coker said that he returned one of the shots; that is the way I knew. Question. Had there been any mischief in the county before you left; any whipping or shooting? Answer. I think there was a great deal of it. Question. How much? Answcer. It was going on from the time of the emancipation up to this time. Question. Can you name the persons who were killed? Answer. I can. Question. Give their names. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. And the dates. Answver. The month? Question. The year and the month. Answer. I do not know that I could give that.

Page  140 140 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. Give their names first? Answer. I can give some of their names. The first one that was killed there to my knowing was Oscar Granbury; he was one of the republicans, a very daring man, and had a splendid education. Question. Who killed him? Ansiver. I could not say who killed him. Question. Where was he killed? Answer. They carried him out to the back of a place they call the Old Russ place, into some bushes, just in the trail. Question. Do you know of others who were killed? Answer. Old man Mat Nichols and his son and his wife were killed. Question. Which was killed first? Answer. I do not know which of those three was killed first. Question. Who was killed first, Nichols or Granbury?:Answer. Granbury was killed first. Question. Do you know any others who were killed in the county? Answver. I do not know their names now; that is I can't think of them. Question. Do you know anything about the killing of Rogers? Answer. Calvin Rogers was killed since I came away from there. Question. Do you know anything about the killing of Doctor Finlayson? Answer. That was done before I went over there the last time; I was in Jacksonville then. Question. Was any harm done to the proprietor of the store where you were? Answzer. Nothing that I know of; there was nothing done to him that year; they went into the store and took what they wanted. Question. Do you know anything about any bands of men going around at night in disguise? Answer. I do not know their names, only Billy Coker, Jack Myrack and Pete Altman. Question. Have you ever seen them? Answier. I have. Question. How many times? Answer. I have met them several times. Question. How many together? Answer. I met Billy Coker, Jack Myrack, and Jim Coker's clerk, I forget his name; I have sometimes met as many as seven in the crowd. Question. Were they all disguised? Answer. They had on a common dress, and old hats; some would have guns by their sides. I never met them anywhere but right by the grave-yard, or out at the place where they shot another fellow, one by the name of Pitman-Silas Pitman. He started to change his name, but he did not change it. He and I were walking from church one night, and he went out to his place where they killed Oscar Granbury, on the Old Russ place, and just as he got into the bottom, just below there, I heard two guns fired, and I heard him holler; I broke for him, for I knew it was him. Question. Was he killed? Answer. No, sir; but he was shot with fifteen buck-shot in his thigh. Question. Did you see the men? Answer. When I got there I saw nobody; there was so much smoke from the powder that you could hardly see him. Question. Have you ever seen these men more than once? Answier. I have seen seven, two or three times. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. Did you know who the parties were? Answer. I only know Bill Coker, Jack Myrack, Pete Altman, and a fellow who was clerk for Mr. Jim Coker; I do not know his name. Question. You say they wero disguised; what was their disguise? Answler. They were dressed in cracker-fashion, with old white or black hats, pulled down over their faces, and with long boots on. Question. They were dressed in old clothes in that way? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. That is what you meant by their being disguised?.Answer. Yes, sir. Question. They had no masks over their faces? Answer. No, sir. Question. You could recognize all three of the men? Answer. Yes, sir, and I knew them. Question. The others were strangers to you? Answer. I knew that some of them were not citizens.

Page  141 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 141 Question. These men, by your statement, seem to have been concerned in various acts of outrage, as well as shooting people, &c. What was their character; were they notorious as desperate men? Answer. No, sir; they were clerks there. The people would suspicion them, all the while they knew they were just such men. They suspicioned a fellow there by the name of George Wiggin, old Judge Wiggin's son; he used to go out sometimes. Question. What were those men going about for? Answer. They just go about, and you would hear of them in this way; if they met a colored man on the street they would have a few words with him, and then they would shoot him right on the spot, or walk off some distance and shoot him. Question. They were bad, desperate men? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Why did you not have those men arrested? Answer. You could not have them arrested; they would get out of the way when you searched for them. Question. They would run off? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You were acting as deputy sheriff? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You say Jack Myrack is a large, big fellow? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. He is a reckless, desperate, man? Answer. Yes, sir; one who will shoot anybody at all. Question. You spoke of ordering him not to go into a house; were you by yourself? Answer. I was by myself. Question. What means had you of controlling him? Answer. I had a pistol and a double-barrel gun. Question. Had you the gun drawn on him so that he knew that you would shoot him? Answer. He knew I would shoot him. Question. Would you have shot him? Answer. I would. Question. Was your gun cocked? Answer. No, sir; but he knew I could cock it. When I went away, the judge told me to bring him back there if I had to bring him dead. Question. Who told you so? Answer. Captain Dickenson. Question. He was a justice of the peace? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. He was in Captain Dickenson's office in custody? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. He wanted to go home? Answer. Yes, sir; he started two or three times to go, just got up and walked out, and we started after him and brought him back. Question. How many did that? Answer. There were eight of us. Question. You arrested him and brought him back? Answer. Yes, sir. After daylight he wanted to go up home; he started to go before light, but we would not let him go. After light he said that by God he didn't care whether he went or not. He asked permission again to go and he told me to go with him. Question. Captain Dickenson told you so? Answer. Yes, sir; told me to go with him and bring him back; bring some of him anyhow. Question. To bring him back alive or dead? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Did he make that statement in the presence of Jack Myrack t Answer. Yes, sir; and he knew I would shoot him if he did not come back. I had a pistol buckled around me, and he knew I would shoot him, because I had arrested another fellow over there; I had been in a party of men and arrested another man. Question. Was he a white man that you arrested? Answer. Yes, sir. He came over there and shot down a colored man. I do not know what they ever did with him. We went to arrest him, and he just stopped and went to shooting; I went on up to him and arrested him and brought him back. Jack Myrack always said after that that he believed I would shoot, and if he heard my voice he would stop. Question. Did you ever shoot anybody? Answer. 1 never did. Question. He only believed that you would do it? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Who were those three men who took Oscar out and killed him?

Page  142 142 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Answer. Jack Myrack, Billy Coker, and Question. The same party? Answoer. Yes, sir. Question. How long before was that? Answer. That was two years ago last month. Question. In 1869? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Was it known that they had killed this colored man Oscar t Answer. The colored people all knew it, and the white people, too; but they wont say. Question. Did you know it? Answer. Only from what I heard. I knew they took him out from where he was staying. Question. What did they take him out for? Answer. They were going to make him go and get his gun and give it up. They said that if he did not tell where everything was — Question. Where everything was? Anszer. They wanted to know where Calvin Rogers was. Question. What had he done? Answer. They suspicioned that he had done some shooting. They saw Calvin Rogers coming down town, and just as he got down one block from the court-house they commenced shooting at him; but he made his escape. Then after that they went on for him, and because he and Granbury was very thick all the while. Calvin was deputy sheriffQuestion. Did you ever know any other people engaged in these acts of violence, except these seven men Alnswer. I have never seen them, not to know them if they were out. I have seen men who I thought would do such things. There was Joe Barnes, and old man Tom White's son Willie; Joe Barnes would shoot you anywhere. Question. I am speaking of men banded together? Answer. Those three men who were with the seven were all that I ever saw and knew. I Question. They had nothing over their faces Answer. No, sir. Question. They had no disguise, except old clothes and old hats? Answer. No, sir. Question. They operated just in town? Ansvwer. Or just around there. They would go around on the plantations when we were boiling sugar. They would shoot people on the way that were going out to the sugar buildings, or when they were going to church, or coming from church. Almost every church night there you could hear of somebody being shot. Question. You believe those three men were always concerned in it? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Do you think those three men created disturbances around your neighborhood? Answer. I do not know that they did it all. Question. You believe theywere concerned in it? Answer. I do. I know Sergeant Barnes; you could see him go around disguised; he is around there now; a white man shot him last year. They went off and were setting for Major Purman, I believe. I am not certain, but I believe it was Major Purman. They were setting for him, a crowd of them in the woods, to shoot him. They were playing cards and got into a fuss or, a dispute, and a man shot Sergeant Barnes in the thigh with a pistol, and he has never been able to go about since. But before, you could hear of Sergeant Barnes being around there every time that anybody was shot. The night that Silas was shot I was going over home'; I was walking very slow; I did not care to go to church right away. I saw two men walk from the corner where there was some brush and a grape-vine, and a sticky willow; I could hear the sticks breaking. I kept my eye on them until I got away. That was the night Silas was shot, and I thought when I saw them that one was Sergeant Barnes. He is just about such a built man as you are; every one in the country could know him by his walk. Question. Who was shot the Saturday night before you went away? Answer. There was no one shot. Question. When did you hear the three guns fired T Answer. When I was at Mr. Chapman's. Question. Who charged you with doing that? Answer. I heard the next day that Mr. Coker said I was there. Question. And Mrs. Chapman said that you had been at her house, and could not have done it? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Did anybody else charge you with ft

Page  143 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 143 Answer. This same fellow, Joe Barnes. Question. Did they seek to have anything done with you before the courts for that? Answer. No, sir. Question. Was not that why you left Marianna at that time? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. On account of that? Answer. Because they said they were going to kill me. Question. Was it not on account of their charging you with being connected with that shooting? Answer. No, sir; it was not on that account; I was going away anyhow. After they attempted to kill me, I had to stay at Mrs. Chapman's; she kept me there close. Question. You have been at Jacksonville ever since? Answer. Yes, sir. When they attempted to kill my brother and my stepfatherQuestion. That was Henry Reed? Answer. Yes, sir. I went over to my father's and brought them away, and several that they had threatened to kill. Question. How old are you? Aniswer. I am going on twenty-two. Question. Did you ever vote yet? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. When did you vote? Answer. This last election. Question. When was your first vote cast? Answer. Last year. Question. While you were at Marianna you were too young to vote? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Did you ever vate there at all? Answer. I was under age when I was there. Question. How old are you now? Answer. I am twenty-two. Qes8tion. When did you come away from there? Answer. Two years and one month ago. Question. Did you ever vote in Marianna? Answer. Just as I got there I voted for some officer; I do not know who it was. Question. You went to the polls and voted with the rest? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Are these three men, Coker, Myrack, and the other one, living there now Answer. No, sir; they run away. Question. Did they go out of the State? Answer. They were there around the house about 12 o'clock. I got Mr. Chapman to go up and tell them to send my dog down. I had a splendid dog; he had a great deal of sense, and I was afraid they might kill him. He went up and got him, and brought him down for me. They came there and knew him, and called him. I heard their voices. One of them said, "Here Sherman, here Sherman!" He kept barking right square along. I was out in the yard then, talking with this girl. Mrs. Chapman tried to keep me from going out. I thought the dog would bay them before they got in, if they came. After awhile I sent Lou in the house, and told Mrs. Chapman that somebody was out there. When she came out I went in the house, and as I was passing I heard some six or seven guns cocked, so it seemed to me, but nothing was said. Just as I heard the guns cocked, I made a spring into the house. They staid there until 1 or 2 o'clock. That was the last night I ever saw any of them around there; they were missing the next morning. Question. They have cleared out and have left the country? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Those are the men you think were mixed up in those offenses you have described Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Who was the sheriff of your county when you were there? Answer. A man they got from Tallahassee; I do not know what his name was; I forget his name. Question. Was he a white man? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Was he appointed by the governor? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. From another county? Answer. Yes, sir; from Tallahassee. Question. Were his deputies colored men Answer. Yes, sir; some of them. Question. The men summoned to make arrests were all colored men? Answer. Yes, sir.

Page  144 144 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. Was the high sheriff's name King? Answer. I think that is his name; I am pretty sure it was his name. Question. I understand you to say that you voted once in Marianna? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. How old were you when you voted there? Answer. I was nineteen or twenty, I guess. They told me to go up and vote; they said I was old enough, and I went up and registered and voted. I did not know, exactly, how old I was then; but afterward I found out my age. I have voted since I have been down here. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. You were born and raised down there? Answer. I was born and raised in Florida. There are very few white men in Florida I do not know. Those I do not know are crackers. I know pretty much all of them around Marianna, for a hundred miles, except crackers. Question. Who are crackers? Answer. The poor people who have got nothing. They come in and do the shooting, and get pay for it. They go down to Coker's store, and he tells them what to do, and we get it from the colored boys in the store. Question. Did you ever hold any office in this State? Answer. No, sir. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. Are these men, Coker, Barnes, and others, what you would call crackers? Answer. They are as wealthy men as there are around there; they own a great deal of property. Question. You spoke of one of the Coker's having a clerk. What business was he in Answer. He had a very large building, nearly as large as this, almost, with a grocery store on one side, and then a store with nothing but whisky, and such things, in it; then he had a large dry-goods store. Question. Those men were men who stood well in that community, as far as property and family were concerned? Answer. Yes, sir; they had plantations and own several lots around town. Barnes had a large grocery store. Question. Did they own slaves before the war? Answer. Yes, sir. JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA, November 11, 1871. W. J. PURMAN sworn and examined. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. Please state your age, where you were born, where you now reside, and what is your profession. Answer. I am thirty years of age; I was born in Pennsylvania, and now live in Marianna, Jackson County; I am a lawyer by profession. Question. Are you connected in any way with the State government of Florida? Answer. Yes, sir. With reference to my residence, I desire to say that, while I do not actually reside in Marianna, yet I have answered that I did, front the fact that I am unwillingly away from there at this time. Question. Explain why you are unwillingly away from there. Answer. That is my home; I am unwillingly away from there because I am not permitted to live there, in consequence of the murderous political opposition to me; my life would not be safe there for one hour; that is a sentiment publicly expressed by the leading men there. Question. Have any attempts been made upon your life? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. When, and in what way? Answer. In February, 1869. When I and the clerk of the court, Dr. Finlayson, were going home one evening from a public concert, about 10 o'clock at night, we were fired upon in the town, and Dr. Finlayson was killed, and I was shot through the neck. I recovered in five or six weeks. As soon as I was well enough to travel, public business, as chairman of the committee to negotiate with Alabama for the transfer of West Florida to that State, called me to Montgomery, Alabama. Question. You have not fully answered me, as to whether you are connected in any way with the State government.

Page  145 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 145 An.swer. I was then a member of the State senate, and I am so still. Question. And it was as a member of that body that you were serving upon this committee of which you spoke? Alnswver. Yes, sir; after completing that business in Montgomery, the condition of my health required that I should go north. On my return in September, when I got as far as Washington City, I was informed of the murdering and rioting going on in Marianna at that time. I came as far as Tallahassee, and the governor of the State, as well as all my other friends, would not permit me to go over to Marianna, in consequence of the danger and threats against me as a public man. I might here give a short history of what those murderings and riotings were at that time. Question. Do so, if you please. Answer. On the 28th of September, 1869, the colored people had ca picnic about two miles out of Marianna; while proceeding there peaceably in their carts and wagons, with their women aud children, they were fired upon by unknown parties, and one man and one little bly were killed. A day or two afterward J. P. Coker, Colonel McClellan, and Miss McClellan, and some others, were sitting on the piazza of the hotel; that party was fired into; 3Miss McClellan was killed and Colonel McClellan was wounded. Tremendous excitement prevailed; the chivalry assembled under arms; virtually put Marianna and all that section of country under martial law; had their provost marshal, and pretended to arrest Oscar Granbury, a leading colored man there, and Matt Nichols; they took them out of town and killed Granbury, but Nichols succeeded in escaping from them. They took Mr. Samuel Fleishman, a white man, and a merchant of twenty years standing in that country, out of his store, ransacked his store, took away all the arms and ammunition there were there, carried him by force into the State of Georgia, and declared that if he put his foot into Jackson County again he would be killed. Fleishman came back a few days afterward and was killed a few miles outside of Marianna. I am not quite certain about the name, but I think Matt Nichols and his wife and little boy were taken from their house in the day-time, carried off a half a mile or so, and all three murdered. William Bryant was called upon to come out of his house; he jumped out of the window, was fired at, and wounded, but escaped with his life. Question. Was he a colored man? Answer. Yes, sir. Two men, by the name of Sullivan and Cox, while proceeding out of town on their way home, were both badly wounded; one was a white man and the other a colored man. Another colored man, whose name I have now forgotten, was killed on a plantation about eight or ten miles out of town. The chivalry kept that town under virtual martial law for several weeks, according to the best of my information, and that was the reason why I did not go to Marianna at that time. Question. These occurrences took place after you had been shot? An4swer. Yes, sir; I was shot in the February preceding, and these things took place in the September followig. I did not go to Marianna then, because the governor and all my political friends thought it unadvisable for me to do so, and because threats were publicly made forbidding me from going there. One year thereafter, in August, 1870, (during the intervening time I did not visit Marianna,) I, in company with Colonel Hamilton, member of Congress from this State, visited Marianna; I was then United States assessor for this State. We visited Marianna under these circumstances; we arrived in Marianna, and it produced quite a consternation at once; judging from the reports of fire-arms that took place during that day, they must have been cleaning out their pistols and shot-guns, and preparing for operations. We stopped with the sheriff and the county clerk, at their house. Question. Who was the sheriff, and who the clerk? Answeor. The clerk was John Q. Dickinson; the sheriff was Thomas M. West, a southern man. Question. Do you mean a southern man by birth? Asw1'er. Yes, sir; a native of the South; Dickinson was a northern man. We were secretly informed that a raid would be made upon the house, and that we were all to be murdered. The first programme was to poison the watch-dogs, of which we had three. No attention was paid to this secret information, but on the next morning, when we woke p, we found the three watch-dogs lying stiff and stark, dead in the yard. We then believed there was a programme of that sort on foot, and the next night we were on guard. There was great excitement in town; running of horses, blowing of horns, &c. About 12 o'clock a man on horseback approached the house, and surveyed it very leisurely, and then returned. He happened to find that every window in the house was open, and probably he saw a man with a double-barreled shotgun at every window, to the number of perhaps twelve. I suppose he reported that information, and there.was no raid that night. On Saturday we had a public meeting of a political character, in the public square. At that meeting a great many men who lived in town were there on horseback, with blankets and overcoats strapped on their saddles behind, which in that country means being in the proper fix to go to Texas. Others appeared there in buggies, with double-barreled shot-guns; probably fifty or 10 a

Page  146 146 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. sixty men of that charactor were there, while none of the more peaceable citizens were there at all; showing a certain programme to be carried out. One or two speeches were made, but the danger was so great that the meeting was adjourned. They had three or four men there from Columbus, desperadoes, who were to commence the fight. They call them in that country " twenty-dollar" men, who are known as assassins, and who will kill any man for twenty dollars. They are often found through that country as horse-drovers. The meeting was adjourned, to assemble again in front of the sheriff's house in the afternoon. Question. At what time in the day was this meeting in the square? Answler. About 10 or 11 o'clock. Immediately after the meeting adjourned, parties of men started out from Marianna; some parties with guns, giving out that they were going off on a hunting expedition; other parties went out with fishing-rods, pretending to be going upon a fishing excursion. This was merely a pretext for the absence of different parties from town. We found upon investigation that every cross-road, bypath, dog-path, every possible avenue of escape from that town was blockaded. At night, men were halted in every direction on the roads, and of course we had reason to presume it was the same in the day-time. To go back a little: This sheriff, who was a southern man, had a brother who was a planter; that brother came there and begged, wvith tears in his eyes, that the sheriff should go out and stay with him in the country, should go away from that house. They also attempted to get the sheriff drunk, and abduct him, and carry him away by force, and they almost succeeded; they did not do it, however. This only shows that they wanted to get away the sheriff, who was a southern man, and then make a raid on us. Finding that we could not leave Marianna when we wanted to, we called in some of the oldest citizens, men of standing, integrity, and property, and explained to them the condition of things. They pretended that such could not possibly be the case; that we must be mistaken.'We assured them that it was the case, and that they really knew better; and they did know better. After staying there four or five days beyond our time, and finding that egress from the county was unsafe, if not utterly impossible, the sheriff issued a summons for a posse of five hundred armed men, with four days' rations, and at the head of that body of men we were going to march out of that county. When the older citizens found such was to be the programme, they immediately came to us, and begged, for God's sake, that we should not call out such a posse, saying that their young men would not stand it; that war would take place right away at once. They said: "Ask any means for your safety, and you shall have it." Thereupon, we selected ten of the oldest and best citizens as hostages. They promised to be there early the next morning, and to accompany us in the form of hostages, and as an escort out of the county. I desire to make one point right here. When these arrangements were made for this company of gentlemen to go with us, it was stipulated that the road the party should'take the next day, should not be selected upon the preceding evening, but that the road should be decided upon after the party left town. Early the next morning the escort of old citizens arrived; with one or two exceptions they were all well armed, one with a double-barreled shot-gun. After proceeding three or four miles out of town, the party halted, and our escort, or hostages, (because there were more of us than of them,) determnined upon the road we should take. There were three roads leading eastward to Quincy, the nearest railroad depot, fifty miles from Marianna; that was our route. By Mr. LANSING: Question. How did you travel? Answer. In carriages. They decided upon their own route, and instead of taking us over any one of those roads eastward, in our direction, they took us northward, or a little northeast, over an unfrequented road, and brought us to Bainbridge, Georgia, thinking that, as they knew the country and all the circumstances, that was the safest route. We were then just as far away from Tallahassee as when we were in Marianna, and were also in another State. I was then acting in the capacity of United States..assessor, was there on official business as well as on personal business, and the other gentleman who was with me was then a member of Congress. The same feeling, the same threats, were directed toward him as toward me, and the same calamity would have overtaken him as myself. These are the reasons why I am not to-day living in Marianna. By the CHAIRAIAN: Question. Have you been back there since that time? rAnswer. I have not been there since August, 1870. I was in charge of that portion of.the country there-of six of those counties-as an agent of the Freedmen's Bureau. It was a lawless country then; murders were taking place constantly. While I have no data right at hand now, I remember a conversation I had in the spring of 1868 with the sheriff of Jackson County. He was a conservative or a democratic sheriff. I remember well our conversation. In talking about a murder that had taken place a few days before, he said that was the sixtieth murder that had taken place in that Bounty since the surrender.

Page  147 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 147 Question. How many have occurred since that conversation? Answer. Well, a great many; I have no particular data, but I could mention a good many. There seems to have been at least twenty or twenty-five, and all of our prominent political men-our best men. Question. You spoke of the killing of Doctor Finlayson: you have mentioned that you were returning from a concert with him when he was killed. What were the circumstances under which that occurred? Answer. Dr. Finlayson was a native of the place, and was a very prominent man in politics. He favored the reconstruction of the State, and was clerk of the circuit court, or the prothonotary. He was murdered under the circumstance I narrated a moment ago. A few days afterward another of our prominent men, a colored man, was badly wounded while unhitching his horse, after returning from town about sundown. Question. What was his name? Answer. Richard Pooser; he was one of our prominent colored speakers. Question. What time of the night was Dr. Finlayson killed? Answer. Between 10 and 11 o'clock. Question. How many shots were fired? Answer. It is difficult to say. It was done with a shot-gun, a gun loaded with buckshot. There may have been one or two barrels fired. We were walking arm in arm; I was a little taller than he was, and one discharge may have hit both of us. Question. Could you tell from where the shot came? Answer. From behind a tree. Question. Do you suppose the shot was aimed at you or at him, or at both of you? Answer. At both of us; because many threats were made constantly during those days against prominent republicans. Question. What was the character of the threats? Answer. They said that they were incendiaries, and that they ought to be killed; that they set the colored people against the white people, stirring up the country; that they were damned Yankees, damned radicals, and should be killed like dogs. Question. Who were the people that made those threats; what sort of people were they? Answer. The chivalry; that does not cover it exactly, however. It was not the poorer people by any means, but the better sort of people, mostly the young men. Question. What do you mean by the better sort of people? Answer. I mean those contradistinguished from the poorer class-from those known as "crackers." Probably this feeling prevailed more among the young men, and not among the very old citizens, nor among the greatest property-holders. Question. Did the older citizens, the men of property, do anything to discourage or discountenance that feeling? Answer. They did not, and there was the great bane of the country. The older citizens, the property-holders, were under intimidation, as some of the better men there have told me. They were afraid to come out and stop this lawless, boisterous, and chivalrous element, who then controlled public opinion and public action. That has been expressed to me very often by the older and more responsible class of citizens. By Mr. LANSING: Question. What was the politics of that better class? Answer. They were once whigs; some of them were Union men during the war, but when reconstruction took place, they ranged themselves among the democracy, in the general opposition to reconstruction. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. What was the political standing of the men who were killed? AnsIer. They were republicans; and generally men who were prominent in some capacity or other in the reconstruction of the State. Question. You have spoken of the firing upon Colonel McClellan and his daughter, and some other persons at the hotel. By whom was that supposed to have been done? Answer. As Colonel McClellan and Mr. Coker were of the fire-brand democracy there, and were, I believe, secret leaders in all these lawless movements, instigators, at least-I do not mean leaders in the movements themselves-as they were attacked, the inference would be that it came that time from the opposite party, or from some persons of opposite political proclivities; that would be the inference. Question. Were you there at the time? Answer. No, sir. Question. Was that the charge on the'other side? Answer. Yes, sir; it was. Question. It was charged by the democrats? Answer. Yes, sir.

Page  148 148 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Question. How long did that occur after the firing into the party of people going to the picnic? Answer. A day or two afterward. To recur back to the murder of Dr. Finlayson, and the wounding of Richard Pooser. Immediately after the murder of Finlayson, there seems to have been a breaking out of the first lawlessness there; three or four were killed, and a half a dozen wounded, whose names I have forgotten, within a few weeks thereafter. Now, come on down later: The sheriff of Jackson County, Thomas MI. West, expressed to me several times the opinion that he was unable to execute the law there, or to feel himself safe as an officer of the law; that the public sentiment was so strongly and dangerously in opposition to him as sheriff of that county that he did not feel safe to go outside of the town and serve any legal process whatever. He was assaulted in the streets there by a party, and very severely and dangerously beaten. His life was also constantly threatened, as he many a time told me. Finding himself thus helpless, he resigned the office of sheriff in the latter part of March, 1871. In his letter of resignation to the governor, which I read, he states the reason to be that he could not be sheriff and execute legal process in that county with any safety to himself, as there was so much turbulence and lawlessness there, and so many threats were made against the officers of the law. Those were his reasons for resigning. Question. What was his political standing? Ansswcr. He was a republican. A few days after his resignation, John Q. Dickinson, who was clerk of the court, was murdered one night, about 10 o'clock, while proceeding from his office to his house. Strange to say, he was killed within about ten steps of where his predecessor, Dr. Finlayson, was killed. He was the most prominent republican in Jackson County, or in West Florida; he was a great republican leader; indeed the only one in Jackson County. Threats, both public and private, had been made against him for years. He was often advised by friends, as well as by anonymous letters, for God's sake to leave there, or he would certainly be killed; but he remained at his post until he was murdered. We have a reputed republican governor in this State; he has the appointing power, and appoints all county officers except constables. The officers in Jackson County before were always of a republican character, with one or two exceptions among the county commissioners. After the resignation of the sheriff, and the murder of the clerk, the democratic citizens met and dictated to the governor the appointment of certain democrats, and he made those appointments. Question. What has been the condition of things there since? Answer. The condition of things from the beginning has been that not a single one of these murderers has been arrested and brought to trial; not one of them, although the most of them are well known. Some of them have fled the country, or are secreted about there, while others are still there and well known, and believed to be the murderers. If the grand juries could be brought to find true bills, they could do it upon the evidence which would be presented to them; but they are in fear, and cannot be brought to do it. Petit juries would not convict these murderers, because of the general sentiment, which justifies these proceedings. Up to this present time not an arrest or a trial has taken place in that county. Question. For the killing of these parties you have been speaking of? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. How many homicides do you suppose have occurred in that county since the war? Answevr. Takiiig the statement of the sheriff to be correct, in the conversation to which I have referred, and keeping within a probable estimate of what has occurred since that time, I should say there must have been at least seventy-five oreighty murders in that county since the war. Question. How many were colored, and how many were white? Answer. There must have been nine-tenths of them colored, or at least eight-tenths. Question. What was the character generally of the colored men who were killed? An.swer. Prominent men among their race. Another prominent man named Calvin Rogers was killed a few weeks after that riot took place. He was our constable there. The character of the men who were killed, or the most of them, was good; they were neither thieves nor vagabonds, and they were our best colored men both in intelligence and industry; they belonged to that class. Question. Were they influential and prominent in their political relations? Answer. They were locally prominent. Question. Have you any reason to suppose there was an organization in that county out of.which these homicides, or any considerable number of them, originated? Answer. Yes, sir; I have every reason to believe that such was the case. Question. How has it been in other counties besides Jackson? Answer. There is a county adjoining, Calhoun County, which is a part of the same region of country in which Judge Carraway, a judge of the county court, who was also one of'the registrars under the reconstruction laws, and Mr. Yearty, who, I think, was also one of the registrars, both prominent republicans, were killed. Judge Carraway was murdered probably a year and a half ago; James W. Yearty, who was sheriff and

Page  149 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 149 a member of the legislature, was murdered five or six months ago. That is the county adjoining Jackson County. Question. Have there been otier homicides in that county? Answter. Not that I know of pt-rticularly: not among prominent men.,Qucstion. How has it been in -Hamilton County? Ansner. There have been soi!e whippings and scourgings there, but I am not much acquainted in that county. (tuestion. Hlow with Columbia County? A.s,'ser. That has also a very lawlless reputation; but I am not acquainted with the particulars of what has occurred there. Q(cstion. Is it your impression and belief that this organization of which you speak extelnds beyond Jackson County, and into other portions of the State? isw1Cr. Yes, sir; I believe that it extends over the State. (tIcstion. In your opinion, what is the object of that organization? A:swer. Judging from the demonstrations that are made, the object must be the extir;ation of the prominent republicans and Union men in this country, for the purpose cf seizing hold of the State government and State offices. In other words, the object is the murder of the leaders of the republican party in the State, and the intimidation of other republicans, and in that way to obtain possession and control of the State government. Question. So as to enable the minority to rule the majority? Answer. Yes, sir; because on a square, fair vote we have a bona fide majority in this State. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. When did you first come to Florida? Answuer. I came here in 1866. Question. Where from? Alnszer. From Washington City. Question. What offices did you hold when you first came here Alnswer. I was in the Bureau. Question. You mean the Freedmen's Bureau? Ansier. Yes, sir. Question. Agent of that Bureau for what portion of the State? Answer. First for Jackson County, and subsequently for five or six counties. Question. How long did you continue in that capacity? Answer. For about two years. Question. What office did you then take? Answer. I was then elected a member of the constitutional convention of this State, and was afterward elected to the State senate. Question. You assisted in framing the constitution of this State? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And you were then elected to the State senate? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Your term as State senator has not yet expired? Answer. No, sir; I was appointed county judge, but resigned that place, and was elected to the senate. Question. To what judgeship were you appointed? Answer. I was elected to the State senate; I was appointed secretary of state, and then resigned that position; I was then appointed county judge, and resigned that place; and was then re-elected to the State senate. Question. By whom were you appointed to those offices? Answcer. By the governor of the State. Question. By Governor Reed? Answier. Yes, sir. Question. As I recollect your testimony, you seemed to have some doubt of his being a pepublican governor; you spoke of him as being a reputed republican." Was he elected by the republican party? Answir. Yes, sir. Qucstion. And you have been the recipient of office at his hands? Anscer. Not wholly at his hands. Question. Do you hold any other office now than that of State senator? Ansser. I am United States internal revenue assessor for the State. Question. Of the entire State? Answer. Yes, sir; it composes one district. Question. Now, in regard to the origin of this anarchal condition of Jackson County which you have described, I have understood you to say that a picnic was held by the colored people? Answer. That was in September; the troubles first commenced with the murder of Dr. Finlayson. Question. When was that?

Page  150 150 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Answer. In February, 1869, and the picnic was in the September following. Question. Where did the firing on the people who were to hold the picnic take place? Answer. On their way to the picnic. Question. Who were killed by that firing? Answer. A little boy and a colored man. Question. Who were the persons who fired? Answer. That was very hard to say. They had their suspicions, and almost direct proof. They were white men. Question. How many men fired on them? Answer. It was supposed that two of them fired. Question. Were the colored people there in great crowds? Answer. I should suppose there must have been quite a party of them. Question. How many were in the picnic? Answer. Maybe fifty, or one hundred; I do not know how many. Question. They were fired on by two white men, with the results you have stated? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You say that two days after that time some gentlemen were sitting in the gallery of a house in the town of Marianna? Answer. On the hotel piazza. Question. Who were they? Answer. J. P. Coker, C. F. McClellan, Miss McClellan, and probably some more, for aught I know. Question. At what time of the day was it? Answer. It was said to be in the dusk of the evening, or after dark. Question. What was the age of Miss McClellan? Answer. She may have been eighteen or twenty. Question. A young lady? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Was her father a man of prominence there? Answer. He was a lawyer, and a man of bad eminence as an agitator and instigator. Question. Was he so held among his own people with whom he associated-with the native people of Florida, the white people? Answer. He was considered a peculiar sort of man, a man of boisterous, rugged, harsh ways and manners, not a peaceable man at all. Question. Was he beloved by his friends and by the community; by those of his own color and race? Answer. No, sir; I do not think he was. Question. Was he or not a man of standing in the community? Answer. He was a practicing attorney there. To give you an idea of the man: He came originally from Kentucky. He was a large man, a man of huge proportions, and called himself a " Kentucky war-horse." Question. What other men were with him? Answer. The other man, Mr. Coker, is a bad man. Question. What is his occupation? Answer. It is that of a merchant, a general ring-leader of badness. I give it as my opinion, founded upon pretty good evidence, that he is the generalissimo of Ku-Klux there; he is so considered in the whole country. Question. Those people were sitting on the piazza of the hotel at the time you speak of? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Did the young lady also share your ill opinion? Answer. No, sir; she must have been a very fine young lady; there is no doubt about that. Question. She was shot? Answer. She was killed. Question. Do you know by whom? Answer. I do not. Question. Have you any reason to suppose or know that she was killed as a retaliation in any way for the firing upon the parties going to the picnic? Answer. I have no reason to know that at all. Question. From that the excitement you have described proceeded? Answer. Yes, sir; taking that and the other murders a day or two before. Question. When you used the term " chivalry," you use it as a term of contempt, do you not? Answuer. No, sir. I used it to describe a certain class of men, a pistol-and-bowie-knife class of men. Question. You mean to speak sneeringly of them? Answer. It is a designation to be applied to a certain class of men in this country. Question. I merely ask you in regard to the tone in which you used the term. Answer. I do not know in regard to the tone; I speak of a certain class of men.

Page  151 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 151 Quzestion You intended to show your dislike and contempt of them? An tver. No, sir; it is a term they use themselves; it is a local designation used among themselves. Question. I merely wish to get an understanding of the meaning you attach to the term " chivalry;" and also to the term "fire-brand democracy," which you used; I only want to get at your meaning. lAnswer. I applied it to a certain class of people in this country. There is a certain class of men who may be termed " fire-brands" naturally, and who politically belong to the democracy; I used the two terms together. Question. You say that these people met and dictated certain appointments to the governor? A~nswer. I there spoke of the results of their action; when the governor accepts recommendations of men after such proceedings, it certainly must be a cowering before dictation. I am responsible for my own words there. Question. I take it you are responsible for all your words? Answer. I mean that that is my construction of that proceeding. Question. Was the form of this dictation to which you have testified different from the ordinary recommendation of parties to office? Anstzer. I do not know that it was different from the general recommendation to office. Question Are you conscious that you are speaking under very great excitement and prejudice against these people?.answer. Well, I hope not. Question Are you conscious of that feeling? Answer. I try to be perfectly conscious of what I am saying. Question. You are not aware that to an ordinary bystander your testimony would indicate such a feeling on your part? Answer. No, sir; I probably speak the truth in an emphatic manner, but I know whereof I speak. Allow me to say this, Mr. Senator, that two years ago I introduced a resolution into the legislature here in favor of universal amnesty. I advocated the passage of that resolution. It passed through the legislature, and I stand by it now, as I have stood ever since. I really am not prejudiced against these people. Question. My reason for saying what I did, is that you have often, in your statements of what was intended, instead of what actually occurred, made statements which, I think, indicated the feeling influencing you at this time. You spoke of men riding up to a house, and looking at it, and then you spoke of what they heard or saw, and of what their impressions were. It occured to me that you probably gave your testimony as you would wish it to be. Answer. I give my testimony here with a great deal of latitude, not as I would do in court; I am not undergoing here a technical examination, as I would in a court; I am taking a latitude here because you permit me to take it. Question. That is evident. Answer. You permit me to do so. 8y Mr. LANSING: Question. You mean, however, to confine yourself to the rules of evidence? Answver. Yes, sir. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. You are aiming to give a historical account of certain transactions? Answer. Yes, sir. By Mr. BAYAkRD: Question. You may call it a historical account, but I would ask you if you are not giving suppositions, rather than statements of facts? Answer. No; I am speaking of facts. Question. You spoke of some ten or twelve old men going with you as hostages. Do you mean by that they went out to answer with their lives for any assault upon you? lAnswer. No, sir; I will explain what I mean, Mr. Senator. There were fifteen of us, and ten of them, and had we been attacked, and had it become necessary to go, spiritually speaking, into the land of Canaan, every one of those men would have gone with us. Question. You would have murdered those old men? Answer. We would not have gone alone; we would have done what it is said Indians have done under certain circumstances. We have heard of Indians, who, when pursued, would interpose the'woraen and children they may have kidnapped between the guns of their enemies and themselves. Had we been pursued in that way, we would have made a bulwark of those hostages. Question. Did those old men go out with the understanding that you would get behind them in case bullets were fired at you, or that you were to take their lives if pressed hard?

Page  152 152 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Aniswer. No, sir. fQuestion. What, then, do you mean by what you have said? _ Aswer. They came with us to give us protection; we relied upon them, and it was g,(od for them that they did give us protection. Supposing they had dealt treacherously withl us, we would have used them for our own self-preservation. Question. You intended to use them for your preservation anyhow? SAswcer. Of course we did. Que3tion. You took those men out for that purpose? Answcer. They went with us to give us protection, and we were bound that they should be a protection to us. Qucstion. And you would have taken their lives to save yours? Aniswer. We would have taken their lives before we lost our own. Question. Would you have taken their lives if people had attacked you? Answer. We would have taken their lives to protect our own. Question. When you used the word "hostages" you knew what the word meant? A-nswzer. Yes, sir; they probably called themselves an escort; we probably called them hostages all the while. Question. Did you say so to them before they started? Answer. I suppose so; we merely looked at things from different standpoints. Question. My question was whether they went with you to insure your safety? Answer. Yes, sir, and they nobly did it; but if they had shown treachery, or if they had shown a disposition not to give us protection, we would have used them for protection. Question. That was the contract under which they went out, except, you say, they took one view of it and you took another? The long and short of the story was that you arrived safely at Tallahassee? Answer. Yes, sir; but they took us out of Florida. Question. You wanted to get out of Marianna? Answer. We wanted to get to Quincy, and they concluded it was the best policy to take us to Georgia. Question. They treated you in good faith? Answer. Yes, sir, and when we got there we treated them gloriously to champagne. Question. Forgetting your kind intentions while on the road? Ancser. We had no intentions, except as might have come up on the spur of the moment. Question. What is the population of Jackson County? Answer. They have a voting population there of about 2,000; at a rough estimate there may be a population of 8,000 or 10,000 people there. Question. And the negro vote is largely preponderating? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. How many negro voters to one white voter? Aiswoer. In a fair election there, I think there would be but few less than 1,400 black voters and 500 or 600 white voters. Question. Nearly three to one? Answer. Two to one, I should say. Question. How large a town is Marianna? Answer. It is scattered; there may be 500 or 600 inhabitants; there was a time when it had more. Question. How many white republicans are there in the county? Ansuwer. There were about sixty or seventy white republicans there then. Question. That was two years ago? Answer. That was in 1868. Question. How many are there now? A4nswer. I judge there are none, for the last one has been killed. Colonel Dickinson was killed last April, and the others there had to drop their faith. I might mention a little instance here. Question. Pardon me. You say Mr. Dickinson was the last one killed; then there are no more there to be killed? Answer. I am afraid that between the killing and the fright, by the operation of those two causes, there are no more white republicans there; that is, no more outspoken republicans. Question. Do you think any white republicans voted there at the last election? Answer. I do not think there were any. By the CITAIRMAN: Question. You were proceeding to make a statement? Answler. The son of our late member of the legislature, Mr. McMillan, was fired upon and shot through the face as he was taking a drink out of a bucket of water. The inference is that the shot was intended for the old gentleman. That took place five or six months ago. All that is discouraging to the white republicans there.

Page  153 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 153 By Mr. BAYARD: Question. You have spoken of these men who have committed these assassinations and murders, and said that not one of them has been brought to trial at any time in that county. Is it because they have gone out of the county, escaped from the State, "gone to Texas," as you say men were in the habit of going so readily, when they had blankets and overcoats tied to their saddles? Answer. Most of them have gone out of the county. Undoubtedly there are some there, and many of them could have been arrested. Question. Do you know their names? Answer. I would not like to testify to the names of any whom I would want to stigmatize here as murderers, though I am morally certain of it. Do you want to know why they have not been arrested? Question. Yes, I want tclknow; and the reason is this: the machinery of this State government has been in the hands of members of your party. Now, why is it that, having the State bound hand and foot, under the control of your partisans, so far as office is concerned, your officials have not done their duty? Answer. That is not the construction that should be put upon it. If the people, by general sentiment, to say nothing about conspiracy, are opposed to a certain government and all its officials, and combine knowingly or instinctively, as it were, to harass that government, and throw all impediments in its way, it is a very easy thing for murderers to escape, and for the officers of the law to be prevented from pursuing; it is a very easy thing to give all aid, countenance, and assistance to those murderers, just as is the case there. There are men right there now who I am morally certain are some of those who shot me and have shot others. Those men can get money and have the use of good horses, while they may be here this evening, to-morrow morning they go thirty miles away. There is a kind of Free-Masonry that exists among a certain class of men, and they will assist each other. That is so in every-day life, and it shows itself in the grand and petit juries every time they are called upon to act. Question. You have stated as a fact that you have a majority of the people in this State in your favor at the polls; you have stated as a fact that you have the whole machinery of the State government entirely in your hands. Now, is it possible that if there had been proper diligence, capacity, and honesty in your official circles there would not have been at least more attempts to arrest these people, and would they not have been at least driven from the State, if not arrested and punished? Answer. Let me illustrate, if you please, Mr. Senator. Colonel Dickinson, who was a political character, and one of the best men who ever breathed the breath of life, intellectually and morally, when these men were out there, was prevented by the people en masse from holding inquests over the dead bodies. The good old citizens, who could only advise and counsel, told him not to attempt to do so. That officer of the law was prevented from executing his sworn duty. He could not get anybody to serve on that inquest, and the people there dared him to hold it. Question. That is the case, with a voting population of three to one in your favor, and with all the officers on your side? Answer. Very well; now take the conspiracy that exists among the most intelligent class of the people. Question. What conspiracy do you refer to; give it some specific name? Answer. You might call it Ku-Kluxism; I suppose that is it. It is an organization that undoubtedly extends all over the State and throughout the State. Those men will combine to prevent the arrest of any man; they will spirit him away or protect and conceal him and make it dangerous for officers of the law to attempt to arrest him. It is not that the officers of the law have not made exertions to arrest these men, for they have done so; but the men get away, or if they do stand their trial, as they have done in different portions of the State, and any one of these men is on the jury, he will hang the jury, and you cannot convict any of them. Question. Have you a knowledge of any man who belongs to any such organization? Answer. No; I have no personal knowledge of it. Question. How can you.state more than mere opinion upon that subject? Answer. Well, I might. state it as my opinion that it is the spring of the year, because I see the leaves springing from the trees and the vegetation springing from the earth. I might give it you as my opinion, based upon facts, as they show themselves about me, that it is the spring of the year. In the same way I give it as my opinion that there is such an organization, and I base it upon facts as they show themselves to me. They may call themselves Invisible Empire, Ku-Klux, or anything else they choose, but they are a combination. Question. Your simile is perhaps sound, and perhaps not. Answer. It may be. Question. About the facts of which you spoke. You say the evidence of spring is a matter of fact. Now, do you say, as a matter of fact, that there is a combination of these men? Have you seen them come and go, and do you know that there is such an organization?

Page  154 154 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Answer. I have seen them in their works, and I have felt them myself. Question. Describe what you mean by " their works." Answer. Their works are the murdering, scourging, whipping, and intimidating of a certain class of political men, and it all comes from the opposite class. Question. Upon what individuals will you fix that? A murder having been committed; whom would you arrest for it, if you had autocratic power? Answer. Where I am intimately acquainted, I would make no mystery in making the arrest; I can only speak for Jackson County. I would not arrest the man who did the deed so soon as I would arrest the man who instigated it. It is my opinion that there are men who sit down and decree the murder of this or that man; and then they have their tools, who go out and execute that decree. Question. Have you any knowledge of any such case, and of the facts attending it? Answer. My knowledge comes from what I have seen; I judge of the cause from the effects which I see produced. Question. Can you state to this committee the facts upon which such a statement as that is based, and give the names and the cases? Answer. Mr. Senator, you know as well as I do, with all respect, that there are two ways of arriving at a conclusion logically. Question. It is your knowledge I want to get at, not your opinion. Answer. I can only judge from the effect. Question. Can you give the facts? Answer. I can give the effects. Question. I am asking you about the causes, about the facts of which you speak. Answer. I do not speak of causes; I do not see the causes; they call themselves the Invisible Empire, and they are not to be seen. Question. You have stated as a fact that murder is instigated by one, while it is performed by another; and you have said, and very properly, that the man who instigates a murder is worse than the man who is bought or frightened into committing it. I ask you whether you can give a case in which the facts will bear out your process of reasoning. Answer. I can, right here. Question. Will you state the case? Answer. While I will mention no names, because it is not proper for me to testify to names, I will say that Dr. Finlayson and myself were men who had no personal enemies. There is no man out there who could stand up and say to either of us that we had ever injured him, insulted him, or done him wrong. We were shot; we had the proof, just as direct and plain as could be, in regard to the men who did it. One was a man, a hanger-on about town, a kind of factotum, who was in the employ of these very sort of men. He was an indigent man himself, who sported his broadcloth; he had no visible means of support, but was admitted into the social circle of such men as Coker, McClellan, and those of that class. That man and another man, who was - Question. Do you believe they gave him money to pay his personal expenses, and kept him in that condition? Answer. He had no visible means of support. Question. Do you believe they gave him money? Answer. Not those men I have mentioned; I said he associated with them. The other man was a farmer, a man of desperate character; one of those loose, mysterious kind of farmers that we have there. There are a certain class of people in this country who farm for several days, and then they are away from home for several days and nights; he was that kind of man. Both of those men we only knew when we saw them, and they only knew us in the same way; we never had any intercourse with them at all. Yet, as certain as I sit here, those men shot us, and there is proof enough to convict them before any jury. I will give you a little proof right here; or, if you do not want it, it makes no difference. One of those men is there yet, is round about there to-day; he is received into the same circle of society; he is, in every sense of the word, protected. That was a put-up job; there is no doubt of it. Why, sir, it was bruited all over the country there for a year before I was shot that there was $1,600 in gold on deposit there for any man who would kill Purman, for no other reason than that I had taken a promlinent part in reconstruction; that was bruited all over the country. I do not say that was the fact,'but that was the statement there made, and it must have had its effect. Many a poor devil would say, " I would kill him for $1,600." You wanted to know, Mr. Senator, how I know these things. Right there, let me say that I am morally certain of it; and yet that one man is right there to-day. Public sentiment centered on him as the man, and ihe was away for about six months. Then the democratic paper there came out and lauded him, and prepared the way for his coming back, and he is there again to-day; and he could not be convicted in that country. If you were to hear the evidence we have against him, you would say that any jury in the world would convict him. Question. Pardon me for saying that I have seen no proof of a conspiracy to kill you. Answer. Here are two men who attacked us, who have no personal connection with

Page  155 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 155 us, and who must be acting as the tools of somebody else. Would they murder us from pure pleasure, if they were not instigated by a power behind them, by a reward, or hope of reward? Question. Have you any facts going to show that those men you suspect have been rewarded in any way? Answver. I have no facts to show that; I merely used that as an illustration to show that murders take place from no personal motives at all, and for no personal reason. They seem to be done in pursuance of some secret, mysterious fiat-by some parties who are probably strangers to their victims. Question. My object is to see, so far as I can, that guilty men are punished in every case that can be named or thought of. At the same time I should like to know who they were first, and I should not like that innocent men should suffer with the guilty, or that suspicion merely should take the place of proof. That is why I have asked for facts, because the character of your testimony has been generally to charge the community with these crimes. I want you to put the guilt where it belongs, and acquit those who are not chargeable with it. Answer. I would not want to charge the whole community with these things; I think there are a great many of them in this conspiracy; there is no doubt about that. Let me tell you one thing I did, Mr. Senator, in order that I may remove the impression that you may probably be getting from my evidence. We were shot on a Friday night. On Saturday night, at about 12 o'clock, when I was lying there at the point of death, a committee of a dozen, perhaps more, black men came into my house. They were armed to the teeth, and said that they had there six or eight hundred men around the town, and that they were going to come in and sack the town that night, on account of the murder of their friends. Senator Bayard, right there I begged of those men, when I could scarcely speak, for God's sake not to do any such thing. They have confidence enough in me to come and tell me these things, for the colored people have great confidence in their friends. The colored people are superstitious. I talked to those men, and made them hold up their right hands and swear to me to go and call off their friends and return home. I did that to save the white people who were there. Had I not done it there would have been a terrible calamity right at that time. I did it, and yet I knew that those very men whose lives I was sparing.by probably that last act of mine would doubtless take the very first opportunity to kill me if they could. Question. Then there is this condition of affairs in Florida that the safety of a town will depend upon the kindness and sense of justice and propriety of a few leaders? Answer. That is not the general fact. I merely tell you this in order to prevent you getting a wrong impression in regard to myself. Question. Do not understand that any question I ask you is with any disrespect to you personally. Answer. There is no telling what those people would have done; that I prevented them from doing that I think there is no doubt. Probably they never would do it again. Question. The white people are pretty well aware of that fact? Answer. Of what fact? Question. That there was that gathering around the town at that time. Answer. Yes, sir. Question. The black people let them understand it? Answer. I do not know that they did, but they knew it, and for awhile they were very grateful to me. But afterwards they called it cowardice, and said that I was afraid to open the ball. Probably if you were out there they would not do me justice, as those men could not do justice to anybody. But I would do it again, for it is no more than humane and Christian. Question. That was the condition of the feelings of the black people at that time on that subject? Answer. Yes, sir. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. I understand you to say that this occurrence, when you interposed between the citizens there and the indignation of the colored people because of the killing of their friend, Dr. Finlayson, was before the attack on the colored picnic?.Answer. Yes, sir, about six or seven months before. Question. What was the date of the killing of Mr. Dickinson? Answier. I am not certain now whether it was the 31st of last March, or the 3d day of last April. Question. Had anything occurred immediately preceding his death; had he done anything to arouse anew their indignation towards him? Answer. No, sir, except that he was a general eye-sore there to them because he was the last plank that held together the republican party there in that county, and they knew it. Question. How did the people there treat his remains after he was dead?

Page  156 156 CONDITION OF AFF'AIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Answer. Well, I do not know about that; he was buriedQuestion. Are you sure he was buried there, or were his remains brought here? Answer. He was buried there, and his remains were afterwards brought away by his friends. Question. So far as you know, what was the last homicide that occurred in that county? Answer. The murder of Dickinson was the last among our prominent men. Question. There has been no one killed there since? Answer. No, sir, because they have killed off everybody there is any opposition to on their part. I have a good conservative friend here, a democratic friend, in this city, who comes from Jackson County, and who was there when I was there. HIe received a letter from a democratic friend of his out there, after the murder of Dickinson. He told me in a laughing; happy, rejoicing way, "i Well, Dick writes to me from Jackson County that they have things in their own way there now; that there is not a damned nigger that dares to speak in Jackson County; that Purman dare not go back again; and they are going to have peace and prosperity there; that Dickinson was the last leader among the republicans there, and he being away, there were no more damned niggers to make speeches; no more white republicans dare go there; and they are going to have a perfect elysium now." Question. How has it been with regard to whippings and scourgings there; have there been any of them going on? Answer. No, sir, they make clean work of it in Jackson County; they believe there in gunpowder entirely; they do not resort to these trifling things. Question. You mean that they have generally inflicted death, or attempted to do so? Answer. Yes, sir. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. This letter of which you speak, and which you have quoted so emphatically just now-were the contents of it given to you jocularly by this gentleman here; and when you say he is your good friend are you speaking jocularly? Answer. No, sir, he is a good friend; he spoke of it as a good thing. Question. Did he do so jocularly or earnestly? Answer. It was more in a spirit of rejoicing, more from a feeling of happiness that such was the case. Question. It was not spoken as a matter of friendly confidence, but as a matter of rejoicing? Anslwer. No, sir, it was not spoken in confidence; I do not violate any confidence. Question. He spoke of it as a matter of fact, as stating to you a fact? Answer. Yes, sir, and I believe he got the letter. JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA, November 11, 1871.'FRANK MYERS sworn and examined. By the CHrAIRMAN: Question. What is your age, where were you born, where do you now live, and what is your present occupation? Answoer. I am about thirty-three years old; I was born in South Carolina, and I now live in Columbia County, Florida; I have been acting as the traveling agent of the Florida Courier this year; at present I am not connected with it. Question. How long have you been living in Columbia County? Answer. About two years. Question. Where did you live before that time? Answler. In Alachua and Hernando Counties. Question. I wish you would tell us what you know of any political organization in either of those counties. Answer. Well, sir, in 1868, when I was living in Alachua County, I joined a democratic club that was being organized at that time; and a short time after I joined it, a proposition was made to me to join what they termed a secret-service club; as 1 expected to leave the county in a few days, and move into Hernando County, I did not join the secret-service club, as they called it; since that time I have been in Alachua County repeatedly, and in conversation with several of those parties I have been informed that such an organization was completed. Question. What did you understand was the object of that secret-service club? Answer. The object of the secret-service club, as explained to me at that time by the party who spoke to me about it, was, in case it became necessary, as they feared it would, to use force or violence to prevent certain parties from exerting too great an influence with the colored population in that county, to be prepared to do it effectually and secretly.

Page  157 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 157 Question. What kind of effectual method did you understand they were to use? Answer. I can only infer what they meant by the language they used; I am repeat ing the substance of it now, as it was explained to me. Question. When it became necessary to prevent any one from obtaining undue influ ence, they wanted to be prepared to do it effectually and secretly? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Is that the organization, as you understand it, that is commonly and popularly known as the Ku-Klux? Answer. I think so; I take it to be the same. Question. Have you ever seen the constitution of the order? Ansswer. I have. Question. Can you produce a copy of it? Anszer. I have a copy which was given to me at that time. [Producing a manuscript pamphlet, as follows:] " The Constitution of the Young Men's Democratic Club of [here put name and county, State. ] " SECTION 1. This organization shall be known and hailed as the Young Men's Democratic Club of --, county of —, State of " SECTION 2. The officers of the club shall consist of a president, two vice-presidents, (first and second,) a recording and a corresponding secretary, and one treasurer. ( SECTION 3. There shall be an executive committee consisting of five discreet, active, energetic members. " SECTION 4. All the officers shall be elected by ballot; but by a vote of two-thirds of the members present at any regular meeting, the ballot may be waived, and the election proceed viva voce. " SECTION 5. The president shall preside at all meetings, or, in his absence, one of the vice-presidents. In the absence of the president and both vice presidents the club may elect a chairman pro tent. " SECTION 6. The president, vice-presidents and executive committee shall constitute a committee of observation and safety, of which the president shall be chairman. " SECTION 7. All matters pertaining to such service shall be referred to this committee of observation and safety, and the names and duties of the secret-service committee shall be known only to the said committee and their various chiefs. " SECTION 8. There shall be appointed by the president a finance committee, whose duty it shall be to provide ways and means. " SECTION 9. Funds raised for campaign purposes shall be disbursed under the direction of the committee of observation and safety, or by the central assistant chiefs. "SECTION 10. NO one shall be admitted to membership in this organization without the indorsement of the two members on presentation of the applicant, and five negative votes shall reject an applicant. "SECTION 11. Each member shall, on admission to this club, subscribe the following oath: "In the presence of Almighty God and these gentlemen, I do hereby solemnly pledge my sacred honor that I will conform to all rules and regulations, by-laws and edicts, that may be legitimately adopted by the organization; that I will always conceal and never divulge any proceedings of this club improper to be made public; that I will always recognize and never divulge the words or signs of recognition and distress that may hereafter be confided to me; and that should I ever hear the hailing word of distress, or see the sign given, I will instantly respond in person thereto, and render all the assistance in my power to the member speaking the word or giving the sign: So help me God. " This obligation shall be administered by the presiding officer, who shall previously have explained the object of the Young Men's Democratic Club. " SECTION 12. It shall be the duty of the committee of 0. and S. to divide the white voters and disfranchised citizens of the county into sections of fifties, which shall be numbered, and to appoint, or cause to be appointed, a chief for each fifty. " SECTION 13. It shall be the duty of the committee of 0. and S. to lay off and bound the territorial limits of the fifties, and to instruct the respective chiefs in all their duties. " SECTION 14. It shall be the duty of the chiefs, immediately on receiving their appointments, to divide their respective fifties into tens, and lay off and bound their territorial limits, and to appoint a leader for each party of ten. " SECTION 15. It shall be the further duty of the chiefs of fifties to instruct and require the chiefs of tens to ascertain, at the earliest practicable period, the name, place of residence, by whom employed, vocation, height, complexion, where registered, and political bias of every white and colored voter in their respective limits or territory; and, to' accomplish this thoroughly, they will call to their assistance every member composing their tens. "SECTION 16. It shall be the duty of leaders of tens to make a list, alphabetically

Page  158 158 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. arranged, embracing the points required in article 15, and report the same to their respective chiefs, who shall consolidate the same, and report to the central chief hereinafter provided for. " SECTION 17. It shall be the duty of leaders and their tens to obey promptly all orders and instructions, proceeding from their respective chiefs, relating to the business or object of the organization; and it shall be their duty to mingle with the colored voters of their respective territorial limits sufficiently to learn their faces, and at the same time to educate them in the principles of the democratic party, and teach them their duty as citizens. "SECTION 18. There.shall be appointed by the Young Men's Democratic Club of - County a central chief, and two assistants, first and second. "SECTION 19. It shall be the duty of the central chief and his assistants to superintend and command the whole organization, receive and consolidate reports from the chiefs of fifties, and prepare for press accurate rolls, setting forth points required in article 15, and cause the same to be printed. "SECTION 20. In all matters pertaining to the duty of the chiefs and their section, and leaders and their tens, the orders and decisions of the central chief, with the advice and concurrence of his assistants, shall be final, until there shall be a district or State organization, when the appeal may be taken regularly to the central chief ranking. " SECTION 21. It shall be the duty of every member of tens to respond to the call of their leaders, and the leaders of tens, when called or summoned, to obey promptly the call of their respective chiefs. " SECTION 22. In further elections each leader of tens shall be furnished a roll of the voters of the county, shall attend the polls, under the direction of their respective chiefs, and shall keep with them a sufficient number of their men to challenge, identify, detect, and prevent fraudulent votes from being polled, and shall render what other service and assistance that may be demanded by the circumstances or the order of the central chief. "SECTION 23. In addition to the duties hereinbefore set forth and required of the committee of 0. and S., that committee shall have power and authority to employ an efficient secretary to assist in the preparation of the forms compiled, and consolidated rolls; conduct correspondence, and keep the books of the organization. Said secretary shall be the officer of the central chief, and shall be subject to the orders of that officer. He shall be paid for his services out of the funds to be raised by the club for that purpose. "SECTION 24. It shall be the further duty of the committee of 0. and S. to institute signs and signals to preserve the counsels, purposes, strength, and integrity of the organization; and shall create signs for communication and for assembling tens and fifties and the whole organization. "SECTION 25. When a ten is assembled for any purpose, its leader shall preside and command; when a section is assembled the chief thereof shall preside and command; and when the whole organization is assembled the central chief shall preside and command; and when two or more tens or two or more sections are assembled rank shall be determined by members. "c SECTION 26. It shall be the duty of the chiefs of fifties to organize colored democratic clubs in their respective sections, and to afford such aid and assistance and counsel to said club as necessity and expediency may require. " SECTION 27. Every member shall sign the constitution and contribute a small amount to defray the contingent expenses. "SECTION 28. This constitution shall not be altered, amended, or abrogated except by a two-third vote of all the members present at any regular meeting, notice having been given in writing at least one week previous. "S. W. Burnett, (1;) P. W. Scott, (2;) G. P. Thomas, (3;) James Beattie, (4;) P. H. Young, (5;) Frank Myers, (6;) W. P. Colclough, (7;) Wm. T. Richardson, (8;) J. J. Beattie, (9;) T. G. P. Thompson, (10;) S. I. Burnett, (11;) Geo. F. Beattie, (12;) S. J. Myers, (13;) T. W. McCaa, (14;) F. C. Johnson, (15;) Jno. H. Menzert, (16;) U. T. Menzert, (17;) S. F. Harvard, (18;) S. T. Fraser, (19;) Wm. Strickland, (20;) W. T. Abbett, (21;) S. C. Tucker, (22;) E. M. Thompson, (23;) C. Rain, sr., (24;) J. J. Kennard, (25:) J. D. Matheson, (26;) C. O. Bailev, (27;) C. Rain, jr., (28;) S. J. Kennard, (29;) Pat. Burke, (30;) H. C. Dozier, (31;) G. W. Wallington, (32;) T. B.,Ellis, (33;) Thaddeus Foster, (34;) W. H. Babcock, (35;) J. O. Malley, (36;) W. B. Ellis, (37;) L. C. Arledge, (38;) R. M. Dozier, (39;) J. F. Strickland, (40;) Isam Bennett, (41;) Oscar Wiggins, (42;) Warren Bryant, (43;) J. B. H. Swift, (44;) J. W. Perry, (45;) J. W. Jones, (46;) C. P. Crawford, (47;) Edmund Jones, (48;) A. A. Robinson, (49;) Wm. D. Edwards, (50;) Geo. M. Colman, (51;) I. I. Thompson, (52.)"] Question. The oath that is in this constitution is the oath of the order? Answer. Of the democratic club; the other oaths are not committed to writing. Question. The oaths in regard to the secret-service club? Ans8wer. Yes, sir.

Page  159 FLORIDA-SUB -COMMITTEE. 159 Question. Did you ever have the oaths given to you? Answer. Of the secret service? Question. Yes. Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Can you repeat the oath? Answer. I cannot repeat it exactly; it has been about two years since then, and I have thought very little of it since. Question. Give the substance of it, as nqarly as you can. Answer. They were bound by oath to obey all orders or edicts coming to them from their chief, from the central chief of the county, or the central chief of the State; they were also sworn to remove, by any means possible, any obstacles in the way of the success of the party which they represented. Question. Do you know a Mr. Birney? Answer. I do; William H. Birney is his name, I think. Question. Who is he? Answer. He is the district attorney in the fifth judicial circuit of this State. Question. Do you know of any attack having been made upon him? Ansswer. Not of my own knowledge. Question. Have you any reliable information about it? Answer. Yes, sir; I have information that I deem reliable, that there was an attack made on him. Question. Under what circumstances? Answer. I would not pretend to relate the circumstances, because I do not recollect them sufficiently accurately to attempt to describe them. Question. How long ago was that? Answer. A little over a year ago. Question. Have you any reason to believe that was done by members of this order? Answer Yes, sir. Question. What leads you to think so? Answer. I heard so from one of the parties himself. The party who related it to me told me that they would have captured him and killed him, but he suspected they were in pursuit of him and took another road, not the road he generally traveled on, and in that way he evaded them. Question. Has there been a great deal of disorder in Columbia County? Answer. I have heard a great deal said about disorder there, but of my own knowledge I cannot say there has been. Question. You have not participated in it or witnessed it? Answer. No, sir. Question. Do you know anything about the hanging of a negro there last winter? Answer. In Columbia County? Question. Yes. Answer. No, sir; there was one hung in Alachua County last winter. Question. What was his name? Answer. I never heard it. Question. Have you reason to suppose that he was put to death by this same organization? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What reason have you for thinking so? Answer. I have it from the same party who told me of the affair with General Birney. Question. You have said that, according to your understanding, this organization is what is commonly known in the community as the Ku-Klux? Answer. I so regard it. Question. Is it connected throughout the State? Answer. About that I cannot say. Question. How came you to have this book or pamphlet? Answer. It was given to me; I joined the club, and my name is on the roll. I moved to Hernando County, and that book was given to me so that I could organize clubs in that county. I omitted to return the book; I laid it away among my papers, and overlooked it and never did return it. Question. In what part of Florida is Hernando County? Answer. It is in South Florida; it borders on the Gulf of Mexico. It was in that way that I became so well acquainted with the organization in organizing these clubs down there. Question. Suppose that in these efforts to remove the obstacles to the success of the party that you spoke of, any member of the organization should get involved in difficulty, be overtaken by the law, or anything of that sort, what were the rest of them to do? Answer. To supply him with the means to make his escape and get away. Question. So far as you know, how numerous is the organization? Answer. I do not know.

Page  160 160 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Question. Do you know who was at the head of it? Answer. I do net; at that time I was told the State organization was not complete. Question. Do you understand that it has been completed since? Answer. Yes, sir; so I have been told; I do not know it to be so; I have had nothing to do with the club since 1869. Question. Who were any of the officials known to you at that time? Answer. When I was connected with it? Question. Yes. Answer. The central chief of the democratic club in Alachua County was named Doctor Dudley. Question. What was his first name? Answver. I do not know his first name; I have forgotten it. Question. Did you attend the meetings of the club? Answer. I did. Question. Was it a pretty large organization? Anscver. The names of the members are on that roll; I think there are fifty-odd of them. Question. Where were the meetings held? Answer. There were two or three places where they held their meetings; the last meeting I attended was held over a drug store. Question. Were they always held in some house? Answer. Yes, sir; whenever I attended them. Question. How numerous was what was called the secret-service club? Answer. You will see there the provision that none but the heads of the secret service shall know who the members are. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. When did you sign this? Answer. I signed it in November, 1868. Question. Was this oath administered to you? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And you took it? Answer. I did. Question. At that time you were acting with the democratic party? Answer. I was. Qutestion. When did you cease to be a member of this association, or of the democratic party? Answer. I have had nothing to do with these clubs since 1869. Question. At what time. Answer. In the spring of 1869. Question. Was this given to you then? Ansiver. It was given to me in 1868. Question. How long prior to that had you become a member? Answer. Only a few days; I removed to Hernando County a few days afterward. Question. Did y ou attempt to organize any club like that? Answer. Yes, sir; I organized two clubs under this constitution in Hernando County. Question. Did you administer the oath to the parties there that you have given here? Answer. I think I did. Question. Who was it asked you to join this secret-service committee? Answer. I would rather not answer that positively, though I think to the best of my recollection it was a man of the name of Young. Question. I observe by this pamphlet that there is a secret-service club provided for, and that it is provided that " all matters pertaining to such service shall be referred to this committee of observation and safety, and the names and duties of the secretservice committee shall be known only to the said committee and their various chiefs." Were you ever a member of any of these committees? Answer. Not there; no, sir. Question. Have you any knowledge of this secret service? Answer. I have it in this way: When I went to Hernando County this book was given to me, and I organized two clubs, and those two clubs constituted me their central chief for Hernando County. I then applied for instructions as regards the secretservice committee, and they were then given to me. Question. Who gave them to you? Answer. The instructions I received were communicated to me verbally. Question. What were they? Answer. I have repeated them as far as I can recollect. Question. What were they? Answer. To appoint a chief of the secret-service committee, which chief was to take the roll and select his own men. I did not know them; he organized them himself. Question. What were their duties?

Page  161 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 161 Answer. Only what I have related; they were sworn to obey any orders their chief gave them. Question. Was there any disguise provided? Answer. No, sir. Question. Was there to be any disguise used? Answer. Not that I know of. Question. Were you held to perform any act illegal under the laws of the State? Answer. I took it so; under the obligations that were administered to them, they were to obey any order coming to them. Question. Whether legal or illegal Answer. Yes, sir. Question. That was your understanding? Answier. Yes, sir. Question. That was the understanding of the party taking the oath? Answer. That was my understanding. Question. You say you never took that oath? Answer. No, sir. Question. And yet, while you never took it, the substance of it was given to you to communicate to others whom you were to appoint to this office? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Have you any knowledge of any unlawful acts performed by these men? Answer. I have not of my own knowledge. Question. Do you know of any act contrary to the laws of the State of Florida or the laws of the United States that was performed by any member of this organization? Answer. I only know what was told to me, as I have already stated; I know nothing of my own knowledge. Question. Do you know of any acts of violence against individuals; any violations of the laws of Florida or of the United States proposed and executed, or proposed in your presence by these people, and which you subsequently learned were carried out? Answer. No, sir. Question. Have you any knowledge of such acts? Answer. Not of my own knowledge. Question. What was the attack on General Birney that you spoke of? Answer. I do not know the particulars. Question. Where did it occur? Answer. In Gainesville. Question. Were you there at the time? Answer. No, sir. Question. Where did you learn about it? Answer. I have it from one of the parties who was concerned in the attack. Question. Describe it as it was stated to you. Answer. The part that impressed itself upon my mind was that after the attack was made and everything was quiet they pursued himQuestion. Was the attack made on him in broad day-light? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Where did they pursue him? Answer. He lived some miles from Gainesville. Question. Was he seriously hurt? Answer. I do not think he was touched or hurt. Question. Do you mean that the assault upon him was in consequence of an order emanating from this committee? Answer. I have no knowledge of that. Question. Have you any knowledge that the assault upon him was committed in pursuance of an order from the committee on secret service? Answer. I have not. Question. Have you any knowledge of any other act being committed in pursuance of the order of this secret-service committee? Answer. No, sir; I have not; it would be impossible for me to have any knowledge of. that, because I have never been connected with it. Question. You spoke of information? Answer. My information was derived from one of the parties. Question. Did he tell you that this assault was in consequence of any order? Answer. No, sir. Question. Then, have you any information or knowledge in any way that any act of violence was committed under the order of this secret service committee? Answer. No, sir, I have not. Question. From what, then,.do you derive your belief that that obligation, as repeated to you, would have involved any person taking it in a breach of the laws of the State of Florida or of the United States? 11 G

Page  162 162 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Answer. He would not be bound to disobey the laws of Florida or of the United States, unless some orders were given to commit some violence. Question. Would he be bound to commit an act under such an order which involved a breach of the laws of the country? Answer. If he regarded the obligation as binding upon him, he would. Question. Did you ever administer such an oath to anybody? Answer. No, sir. Question. You say it never was administered to you? Answer. No, sir. Question. The substance of it was repeated to you T Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Do you believe you have stated the substance of it with reasonable accuracy now? Answer. I would not pretend to repeat it, because it has been so long that /a great deal of it has escaped my mempry. Question. Was this oath that they would obey the orders of this person, or all lawful orders emanating from this center? Answer. All orders. Question. Without exception? Answer. All orders or edicts was about the way it was worded. Question. And, so far as your knowledge goes, no acts of violence have been committed under those orders that you know of? Answer. Not of my own knowledge. Question. Go further than that. Have you information of acts being committed in consequence of these orders? Answer. No, sir; I have not. Question. There have been a great many cases of outrage, murder, and things of that sort committed in this State. Have you any information of a credible character to the effect that such acts followed from orders emanating from any of these secret committees? Answcr. There were two negroes hung in Hernando County, in February, 1869, I think. It was the common report there, and, in fact, the thing was so plain that everybody acknowledged that they believed it to be true, that it was done by what were recognized as Ku-Klux, They were taken from a guard and hung. Question. What had they been doing? Answer. They were both implicated in killing a boy. Question. They were in the custody of the sheriff at that time? Answer. Yes, sir; the case was undergoing an investigation. Question. Do you mean to say that the taking of those men out of the hands of the sheriff, and putting them to death, was in consequence of an order from one of these secret committees. Answer. I do not know about the order. Question. That is what I want to get at. Answer. That I cannot tell you, because you can see from the obligation itself that no one can know where the orders come from, excepting those interested; 1 would have no means of knowing whether they received an order or not. Question. You would have means of information, such as the telling of that man who made the attack on Birney? Answer. Yes, sir; he told me about their pursuing him, and their attack on him in Gainesville in open daylight; every one saw it; there was nothing concealed at all. Question. What I want to get at is, whether these attacks were in consequence of orders fron these secret bodies, Answer. You cannot get that information from me, because I have no means of knowing it. Question. Do you hold any office in this State now? Answer. No, sir; I do not. Question. Have you ever held any? Answer. I was county commissioner for a short time once; and I have always voted the democratic ticket all my life. Question. Do you continue your relations to that party the same? Answer. To the democratic party? Question. Yes. Answer. No, sir; I cannot say that I do. Question. When did you leave it? Answer. I have not affiliated with that party or attended any of its club meetings, or anything of that sort, since the spring of 1869, though in the last election I voted the democratic ticket. Question. Have you reason to believe that these clubs are now in existence? Answer. I cannot say I have reason to believe it, except from common report. Question. What became of the clubs you yourself organized?

Page  163 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 16 3 Answer. I do not know; I have not been in those counties for two years. Question. Are there any in the county that you live in? Answer. There were several there last fall, so I was told; I never visited them. Question. You never went there after you organized this committee? Alnswer. No, sir. Question. Have you ever gone back and claimed membership in the county whele this one originated Answer. No, sir; I do n6t know that that is in operation now. Question. These clubs were formed in each county; did they provide for a central club in the State? Answer. No, sir; the organization was not complete when I was connected with it. Question. Do you know whether it has been completed since? Answer. No, sir, I do not, except from hearsay. Question. Were the members referred to in that county the names signed here? Answer. No, sir; that was only one club. Question. How many were there in that county? Answer. I do not recollect, but I think there were about a half a dozen in the county; I am not positive about that. Question. When were you summoned before this committee? Answer. Day before yesterday. Question. By whom? Answer. I think that Doctor Johnson served the subpoena on me. Question. To whom did you state your knowledge of this democratic club? Answer. I think I told him something about it; my recollection is that I told him something about it. Question. Told whom? Answer. Doctor Johnson. Question. Who is he? Answer..G. Johnson, State senator from Columbia County. Question. You were connected with the Florida Courier as traveling agent? Answer. I was. Question. What are the politics of that paper? Answer. Democratic. Question. You are not connected with it now? Answer. No, sir. Question. In whose hand-writing is this pamphlet or book? Answer. I cannot tell; 1 do not know; I do not recollect. Question. You wrote that constitution out in other books when you formed other clubs under it? Answer. I did not write it but myself; I had a clerk to write it; it was copied from this book. [Looking at the book.] I think P. H. Young wrote this. Question. Who is he? Answer. He is a lawyer in Gainesville, Alachua County. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. Have I understood you correctly as saying that a part of the secret service obligation was to go to any place and remove any obstacle in the way of the success of the democratic party? Answer. That is my recollection of it. Question. You spoke of a negro having been hung in Alachua County; what was the information you received in regard to his hanging? Answer. As to who hung him? Question. Yes, and what he was hung for. zAnswer. I have no idea who the parties were who were engaged in it-that is, their names. I do not know any more than you do who these secret service men are. I was told by several parties down there that it was done by this committee. Question. The secret service committee? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Were you told by men who were members of the order? Answer. They were members of the democratic club. Question. But who they were who did it, or whether any order was issued, you do not know? Answer. No, sir. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. When was that hanging in Alachua County? Answer. I think it was in last December; it was last winter some time. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. I believe you have told us what was the object of this secret service committee as explained to you?

Page  164 164 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Answer. I have. Question. How many of these clubs were there in Alachua County? Answer. I am not positive; I think, though, there were about, a half a dozen of them. Question. How many clubs in each county? Answer. I do not know. Question. Did they have a name for each club? Answer. Yes, sir, I think they did; you see the by-laws provide for that. Question. You say they were there in Columbia County last fall? Answer. Yes, sir, I was told so; I did not visit them at all; I had nothing to do with their clubs. Question. I see this constitution contemplates signs and pass-words; what were the signs? Answer. I do not recollect; it has been so long, and I have paid so little attention to it since, that I could not repeat them. Question. I infer from reading this constitution that the signs were liable to be changed? Answer. I think it was just being organized here at that time. Question. How long had it been in existence before you joined it? Answer. I was one of the first who signed the constitution. Question. Was this one of the first clubs? Answer. I think this was the first club in that county. Question, Do you know in what part of the State it originated? Answer. I do not. Question. Or where the constitution was derived from? Answer. No, sir. JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA, November 11, 1871. E. H. STRINGFELLOW sworn and examined. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. State your age, where you were born, where you now live, and what is your occupation. Answer. I am thirty-six years old. I was born in Chester, South'Carolina, and I now live between twenty and twenty-five miles from Lake City, in Columbia County, in this State. I am a farmer by occupation. Question. Have you had any organization of people in your county that are commonly called Ku-Klux? Answer. Not to my knowledge. Question. Have you any reliable information of any such organization anywhere in the county? Answer. I have heard of some whipping that was done in the country that I suppose would be claimed to have been done by an organization of that kind, though whether it was or not I cannot say positively. Question. How many persons have you known to be whipped? Answer. I have heard of two cases, though I am not sure that' but one of them was whipped; he was Mr. Bob Forson. Question. Was he a white man? Answer; Yes, sir. Question. How long since he was whipped? Answer. I think it was last year; I am not sure; I have forgotten the exact time, but if it was not last year, it was the early part of this year. I think it was last fall. Question. You spoke of another case about which you are not certain. Who was he? Answer. He was a colored man. He denies having been whipped. Question. What is his name? Answer. I have forgotten his name. I can tell where he lives; he lives about twenty miles from Lake City. Question. How did you get the impression that he had been whipped? Answer. It was a rumor I heard in the country. Question. Do you know Forson? Answer. No, sir; I never have seen him; I live in the extreme southern part of the county, and never have had any business over in the part where he lives, and never:lave seen him. Question. Have you been at elections in that county? Answer. I have been at two elections in Florida. Question. Where Answer. Both at Lake City. The first was when the military were here, when Judge Knight ran for the State senate, I believe. The second was last fall, when Mr. Johnson ran for the senate.

Page  165 FLORIDA —SUB-COMMITTEE. 165 Question. When did you first hear of these people that they call Ku-Klux? Answer. I have been hearing of them for two or three years; I have forgotten when I did first hear of them; it has been two years ago. Question. What are they understood to be for? Answer. That is a thing I never could learn; I never found out; I never heard any one say. Question. I believe you do not go out after night? Answer. No, sir; I never go out after night, unless I have some one to lead me, except right around my place. Question. Of course, you never would see them? Answer. No, sir; I cannot see after night at all. Question. You have never been disturbed yourself? Answer. Not in the least. Question. You have stated the substance of what you know? Answer. Yes, sir; I do not remember any other whipping except the two cases I spoke of. Question. Have you heard of any people being killed in the county? Answer. Yes, sir, one. Question. Who was that? Answer. Jim Green. Question. Was he a white man or a colored man? Answer. He was a colored man. Question. Was that in your neighborhood? Answer. It was several miles above me, some fifteen or sixteen miles. Question. When was he killed? Answer. That was two or three years ago; it was in 1868 or 1869; it must have been over two years ago, for they had it up in court there two years ago. JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA, November 13, 1871. CHARLES H. PEARCE (colored) sworn and examined. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. State your age, where you were born, where you now live, and what official position, if any, you occupy. Answer. I am in my fifty-first year; I was born on the eastern shore of Maryland, and I now reside in Tallahassee, in this State. I am a minister of the African Methodist church near there, and a senator from that district in the State legislature. Question. How long have you been in Florida? Answer. Six years, this fall. Question. Did you come here directly from Maryland? Answer. No, sir; I came from Canada here. Question. How long have you been connected with the African Methodist Church? Answer. I have been connected with that Church thirty-eight years last June. Question. How long have you been connected with it in this State? Answer. I was always a member of that Church. I went to Canada as a missionary, and I came here to this State, six years ago, as a missionary of that same branch of the Church. Question. During that time, have you had an opportunity to become acquainted with your people throughout the State? Answer. I have, pretty extensively; my business has brought me in connection with pretty near all our people through the State. Question. Our object is to ascertain how far the laws have proved in fact adequate for the protection of person and property in this State. I wish you would give any facts bearing upon that subject, especially in connection with your own people. Answer. So far as laws are concerned, the laws of this State are as good as any man can ask, but I am sorry to say they have not been carried out in many instances; our people have had very little, if any, protection where these outrages exist. Question. What instance can you give of failure to protect them from violence, or to redress their wrongs, when injured Answer. I think the best evidence I can give is-the governor's own words. We had a convention last June of the ministers of this State; the governor was invited to attend, and we asked him in reference to the protection of the people ot Jackson County, and other counties, where outrages were prevalent. He stated to us that his arms were paralyzed; that there was not power enough in the government to protect the 16yal people of the counties where outrages existed. I have here in a pamphlet a resolution which grew out of the statement which he made.

Page  166 166 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. The following are extracts from the published proceedings of the convention of ministers and laymen of the African Methodist Episcopal Church in Florida: "Rev. C. H. Pearce offered the following: "Resolved, That we, the ministers and laymen of the African Methodist Episcopal Church, in convention assembled, deeply deplore the troubles of our people in West Florida and other parts of the State, and hope that the time is not far distant when peace and good order shall prevail all over our land; and Resolved, That prayer shall be made without ceasing for them. *I * X * * * *f X " On motion, Governor Reed was requested to address the convention, which he did at length. After which Elder C. H. Pearce offered the following: "Whereas the governor of the State of Florida has said that he could not protect the people of Jackson County: Therefore, " Resolved, That it is the deliberate opinion of this convention that the colored people should move out of Jackson County forthwith. "Resolvedfiurther, That we pledge ourselves to do all we can to secure them homes elsewhere." These resolutions were adopted, and the last I have read grew out of the statement which the governor made. Question. What troubles are referred to here, and what injuries have been inflicted that require redress? Answer. Our people were being shot everywhere; wherever a man would come out prominently and take a decided stand, he was shot down. Men in that section of the country were not men at all, for they could not express their opinions perfectly, or if they did, they knew what would be the result. Question. Do you refer to their opinions upon religious subjects or upon political subjects? Answcer. On political subjects. Question. How many such instances have come within your knowledge, and where did they occur? Answler. I cannot state exactly how many-quite a number of them, the most of them in Jackson County. Others occurred in La Fayette, Taylor, Hamilton, and Columbia Counties. I have a letter now which I received from one of our ministers, a few days ago, stating that he had to abandon his school, (he was teaching in the country,) because of some threats that had been made; he had to abandon his school, and come into town. Question. In what county was that? Answter. Columbia County. Question. Have you communication with other clergymen of your Church? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Do you get information from them? Answer. Almost daily. Question. What is the character of that information? Answer. It is in regard to the condition of things, the commission of outrages, &c.; not so much recently as in the early part of the year. I have, I suppose, some forty or fifty letters that Icannot exhibit, because there are some private matters in them, and then the persons writing them charged me particularly nho to make their names public, for as soon as that was done, they would be no more. I have quite a number of those letters. Rumors are coming in continually of the outrages committed there. Question. What is the character of the outrages; what form do they take? Answcer. It is rather a political form, all the way through; the whole persecution, I think, is upon political grounds. Question. So far as you know, or have information that you rely upon, who are the parties engaged in committing these outrages? Answer. They do not give names particularly; I do not know the parties engaged in them. Question. You can tell whether they are white or black, whether they belong to one political party or the other? Answer. 0, they are whites, and are supposed to be democrats; in fact, they are democrats. Question. To what political party do their victims belong who are made to suffer? Answver. They are invariably republicans; we have nothing else here of any account among the colored people. Question. So far as you know, in what way have they been mistreated; what has been done to them? Answer. They have been threatened and whipped, and driven off their places. I know a number of men who had comfortable homes, who were taken out and whipped..and bad to abandon their homes. Some were shot and some were killed. One of 4heir objects in writing to me was to get me to see the governor and inform him in reference

Page  167 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 167 to their troubles, and see if some means could not be devised by which they could be protected. I have spoken to the governor a great many times about it. He has always expressed a willingness to do, but at the same time he has stated that he was not able to give them the protection that they wanted, and the protection that he was aware they stood in need of Question. Has he any militia that he can call to his aid? Answer. He might have; he could get a militia force, I think; he has nqt now any militia that he could call to his assistance. Question. He never has called out the militia? Answer. He never has yet. Question. Do you know anything about an attempt to procure arms for the defense of the State? Answer. On the part of.Governor Reed? Question. Yes. Answer. Well, yes, sir; soon after the inauguration of this government, he got a num-' ber of arms, and had them shipped to Tallahassee; part of them were destroyed. Question. Where were they destroyed Answer. I think it was somewhere along between Lake City and Madison. Question. Do you know how they were destroyed, or by whom? Answer. I do not know by whom they were destroyed, but they were thrown off the train, and some were broken up, and a great many carried off. Question. State whether you have reason to believe that there is a secret organization in this State out of which these acts of violence grow; and, if so, give your reason for that opinion. Answer. It is my opinion that there is such an organization. I know nothing of it personally, but from the rumors of outrages that are daily going on, or that were going on in the State, I have reason to believe there was an organization. In fact, if there had not been an organization, and if some of the best citizens had not been in some way implicated in it, my opinion is that they could have put it down long ago. But from the fact that they have been allowed to go on, and none of them have been brought to justice, it seems to me that there must be an organization somewhere. Question. Has there been any attempt on the part of what you call the best citizens, to suppress this violence and bring the offenders to justice? Answer. I do not know of any. I had a long talk with Judge Bush, of Marianna; I told him that, in my opinion, he was equally guilty with these desperadoes; I told him that was my opinion and I gave him my reasons for that opinion; that is, that he was the leader of the people and an old citizen there, and if he was to frown upon these outrages a stop would very soon be put to them. That was my opinion, and it is my opinion yet. Question. What did he say in response to that? Answer. Of course he disclaimed any connection with them. Question. Did he attempt to give any reason why these acts of violence were committed? Answer. He seemed to think that they were committed by men from other States, a low class of men from Georgia and Alabama who came in there, not citizens from Jackson County. Question. Did he explain how men from other States, strangers there, would come in and pick out the republicans without somebody to point them out to them? Answer. No, sir; he did not explain that. Question. But he thought they were people who came from Georgia and Alabama? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You spoke about your people being driven off from their lands. Do you mean lands that they own, or lands that they rented? Answer. Lands that they owned-their homesteads. Question. Have they been attempting to become land-owners in this State? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What is the feeling on the part of the former land-owners upon the subject of allowing colored people to have lands of their own? Answer. In those large counties they talk very favorably; they say that every man ought to have a home. But in the small and sparsely settled counties they are very much opposed to their having lands and settling upon them. In the larger counties they talk very favorably of it; in fact, we have no trouble at all in those large counties. We have no trouble in a county like Leon; we are just as secure there as in the State of. Massachusetts. It is in the other sparsely settled counties, away off from civilization, as I may say, where we have the most trouble. Question. Leon County is the county in which Tallahassee, the capital of the State, is located? Answer. Yes, sir. 2Question. You say your people are fairly protected in that county? Answer. Yes, sir; we get along very well.

Page  168 168 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Question. Do they have any trouble in getting homes if they have the means of procuring them? Answer. They cannot get homes very well; the lands are owned by large landowners, who are unwilling to sell their lands. There is no Government or State land of any account in Leon County; the lands are all taken up by the large land-holders. Question. They are unwilling to sell Answer. Yes, sir. Question. So far as you know, what is the feeling on the subject of the education of your people? Answer. So far as I know, it is very good in Leon County, except in the upper part of the county. We sent a teacher to teach the colored school in the upper part of Leon County, next to Georgiai and they ran him off, and would not let him teach the school. Question. Who was the teacher Answer. He was a man from the island of Nassau originally, by the name of Butler. Question. Was he a colored man or a white man? Answer. He was a white man. Question. What objection had they to his teaching? Answer. The only objection that they could have was, that he was teaching a colored school; he had to leave. Question. Have any of your schools been broken up by the burning of the schoolhouses, or in any other way? Answer. Not in that county. Question. How has it been in other counties Answer. In other counties there has been something of that kind, but not lately. Question. What is the feeling in the counties of Jackson, Hamilton, Columbia, and other counties in reference to education? Answer. So far as I have been able to learn, the feeling is against the education of colored children. Question. From your information, in which of those counties has the greatest number of acts of violence been committed? Alswer. In Jackson County. Question. How many of your people do you suppose have been either killed or otherwise maltreated in that county q Answer. Well, sir, I cannot tell exactly. If I was at home, or had charged my mind particularly with it, I might tell. There has been quite a large number. Question. Ten would be a very large number? Answer. It is more than ten; it is more than twenty; it is more than thirty. Question. Some witnesses before us have estimated the number as high as seventyfive or eighty, white and colored. Answer. Well, I should not wonder if that was correct; I have no doubt it is correct. Question. The number has been very great? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Do you know a gentleman by the name of Doctor Kreminger? Answer. Yes, sir; he was the senator from the counties of La Fayette and Taylor. Question. Where did he live? Answer. He lived in a place called New Troy. Question. In what county is that? Answer. I think that is in Taylor County. Question. State what befel him. Answer. He was shot- and killed. Question. Where, and when, and by whom? Answer. He was killed on his piazza; I-do not exactly remember the date when he was killed, but it was not long since. Question. During this present year? Answer. Yes, sir; this fall. I received a letter from him about two weeks before he was shot, stating that his life was in danger, and that he had some notion of coming up to Tallahassee and staying there. The next thing I heard of him, he had been shot and killed. Question. Have you that letter? Answer. Not with me; I did not bring any letters with me, for I did not know what would be required of me here, but I have his letter at home. Question. Have you given the substance of his letter, or did it relate to other things besides? Answer. I have given the substance of it. Question. If you have no objection to communicating that letter to the reporter, I would be glad to incorporate it in your testimony. Answer. He simply stated to me in his letter that his life was in danger in that place. We had talked about it a great many times; he was an intimate friend of mine. He wrote me in his letter that his life was in danger; in fact, he wrote that his life was in

Page  169 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 169 his hands; that is thelvay he expressed it, and that he expected to come up to Tallahassee and stay awhile until, to use his own expression, the smoke cleared off a little; that is about the substance of it. Question. Did he state from what source he apprehended danger? Answer. He did not, except that he said the democrats were hostile to him. Question. You have spoken of an organization which, in your opinion, exists in this State; what is the popular name of that organization? Answer. We call it the Ku-Klux organization. Question. Was that the organization that Doctor Kreminger apprehended danger from? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. How long before he was killed was this letter written to you? Answer. About two weeks. Question. Was he killed in the day-time or night-time? Answer. He was killed early in the morning. Question. You say he was a member of the legislature? Answer. He has been a member of the legislature, but was defeated for re-election last fall. I think the bad feeling against him grew out of that ~contest last fall. He so stated to me several times. Question. Have there been any threats made to intimidate colored people from exercising their political rights as voters Answer. There have been. Question. Of what character? Answer. Threats of violence, &c. Quite a number were arrested in Gadsden County and brought down last year and tried before the United States court, and some from Columbia County. In Jackson County they had everything all their own way. Question. Have you ever seen any of what are called Ku-Klux notices? Answer. I have never had any served on me personally, but I have seen some that were sent to Mr. Gibbs, threatening him, the governor, and myself. Question. Who is Mr. Gibbs? Answer. He is the secretary of state; but they have never favored me with any such notices. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. You came to this State six years ago? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. At the close of the war? Answer.! Immediately afterward. Question. From Canada? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. As a missionary of your Church Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Do you hold any office in this State? Answer. I am a senator in the State legislature. Question. When were you elected? Answer. I was re-elected last fall. Question. You came here in 1865? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What was your first political employment here? Answer. I was elected, in the first place, to the constitutional convention. Question. You were a delegate to the constitutional convention? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. In what year was that? Answer. In the year 1868, I think. Question. You assisted in framing the constitution of this State? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And then you were elected to the State senate? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What district did you represent? Answer. The eighth district. Question. What county? Answer. Leon County. Question. That is the county in which Tallahassee is? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You have been re-elected to the State senate? Answer. Yes, sir; last fall. Question. What is the total vote in your county? Answer. Our vote there is a little over three thousand. Question. Do you mean by " our vote "the colored vote? Answer. The republican vote.

Page  170 170 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Question. What is the opposite vote? Answer. I do not know exactly what it is; it fluctuates; it is very small. Question. How many do you outnumber them relatively; how many to one? Answer. We outnumber them nearly four to one. Question. Then you always have an easy victory at the polls? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. At this time, who are the representatives in the lower house? Answer. Noah Graham, John Wallace, and John Wyatt. Question. Who are colored and who are white? Answer. They are all colored. Question. The capital of the State is at Tallahassee? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Does the governor reside there? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You spoke of Mr. Gibbs, the secretary of state; is he a colored man? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. I observe in this report of the proceedings of your convention which you have produced here the name of Rev. Robert Meacham; is that Mr. Meacham the senator from the adjoining district? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. The same one who has been before this committee? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Is he a clergyman? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. An ordained minister of the Gospel? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Are all the names here of members of that convention the names of clergymen? Answer. There are some laymen; the convention was composed of clergymen and laymen? Question. I judge from the fact that you and Mr. Meacham are in the State senate that the clergymen of your church very frequently hold political offices? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Is that a common thing? Answer. In this State. Question. Are you a bishop? Answer. No, sir, my rank is that of an elder; they call me bishop sometimes. Question. Are you commonly known by your people as Bishop Pearce? Answer. Yes, sir; they gave me that name when I first came down here, and almost every person now calls me that; but that is not my title. Question. Of the colored men in the legislature of the State, and in the constitutional convention, were a majority ministers of the Gospel? Answer. No, sir. Question. A great many of them were not? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Is Mr. Gibbs, the secretary of state, a clergyman? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Mr. Meacham, of the senate, is a clergyman? AAnswer. Yes, sir. Quest;on. You are a clergyman? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. I observe that among the resolutions you adopted in that convention was this: a " Resolved, That politically our sympathies are with the republican party." That was the unanimous declaration of your convention? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Is it so with your people? Answer.. Yes, sir; they are a unit so far as that is concerned. Question. Here is another resolution: " Resolved, That our social sympathies are warmly towards those who help us in material and mental aggrandizement, by affording us willingly opportunities for the acquisition of this world's goods and of mental culture; and that our patronage rightfully belongs only to those who patronize us as far as occurs in the ordinary course of fair business." Answer. That seems true. Question. Then follow these resolutions: " Resolved, That those steamers, railroad companies,; merchants, and others who treat our people so disgracefully from sheer hatred, malice, and prejudice, are not worthy of our support, only as serves the interests of our people, and our people as much as pos

Page  171 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 171 sible should be advised to ship their produce, &c., and make their purchases by and from those who treat them fairest. " Resolved, That those newspapers which caricature us and allow us to be caricatured in their columns, and advertise us so liberally gratis, and those which are so ready to publish little differences among ourselves, which are often furnished by sneakihg individuals in order to get up and foster wranglings among ourselves, should be beautifully let alone, and our people be advised constantly not to subscribe to them." Those were the resolutions of your convention, and adopted unanimously? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And such you hold to be the doctrines of your race throughout the State? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. In this way you associate your political creed with your religious duties and action in this State? Answer. It is impossible to separate them here. A man in this State cannot do his whole duty as a minister except he looks out for the political interests of his people. They are like a ship out at sea, and they must have somebody to guide them; and it is natural that they should get their best informed men to lead them. Question. Your people throughout the State are bound together as a unit, politically? Answer. We may find one or two prodigals. Question. So you deem them? Answer. Yes, sir; some who have wandered from the fold. But the probability is that they will all come back. Question. There are not many of them to come back. Answer. Very few. Question. There will be found means to bring them back. I observe a report, made by Mr. Osgood, on industrial and political interests; and I observe other reports here. Were they adopted unanimously? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. I observe Report A is as follows: "[REPORT A.] " Industrial and political interests. " Your committee on the industrial and political interests of our people respectfully report as follows: " Whereas labor is the basis of all wealth, and wealth is an absolute necessity of civilized society, and a peaceful condition of society, the security of life and property, a jealous regard for the rights of labor, are among the imperative duties of a well ordered government; "Resolved by the convention of ministers and laymen of the African Methodist Episcopal C hurch in Florida, That we congratulate our people upon the rapid progress they have made in the past six years, and upon the increase of mixed industry, homesteads, and small farms in opposition to the ruinous plantation system, and consider those, together with the increase of school-houses and churches, and also the deposit of near three millions of dollars in the savings-banks, as a greater pledge of our progress to the friends of freedom throughout the world than can be found in the history of any people who sprang from as lowly a condition as ourselves; and we proudly point to these facts as a refutation of the slanders by our natural-born enemies, the democrats, that the freedmen do not work. "A. B. OSGOOD, Chairman." That was adopted by your convention? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. It contains your own sentiments on the subject? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. A report was made by yourself, as chairman of the committee on immigration. You state as follows in that report: " Your committee also beg leave to report that we have learned that there are many thousands of acres of land belonging to the United States Government subject to entry under the homestead law of Congress at only the necessary cost of entry fees. Complaints are often heard that the Government does not fulfill the many promises made by its friends in the earlier days of the reconstruction, of giving away land to our people. These complaints are unfounded and foolish. There are fourteen millions of acres of Government land in this State, which the Government is willing, almost anxious, for our people to take up, make homes upon, and improve." And you then go on and describe the land. That is all true, to your belief? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And it was adopted by the convention to go forth to the people?

Page  172 172 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You say it is impossible to separate your religious and political instructions, and therefore they are combined regularly to your people? Answer. Yes, sir; that is necessarily the case. Question. You spoke of a Doctor Kreminger, who you state had been murdered? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. In what county was that? Answer. I think it was in Taylor County; it was either in Lafayette County or Taylor County. Question. That was during the present year? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Who was the man who killed him? Answer. I do not know. Question. You said a person had been indicted for that crime? Answer. I understood that an indictment was found against a man who was supposed to have committed the murder. Question. He has been indicted by the grand jury? Answer. So I understood. Question. Do you know whether he has been arrested? Answer. I do not. Question. You do not know who he is? Answer. No, sir. Question. Do you know whether he is black or white? Answer. He is a white man. Question. You know that he is a white man? Answer. I do not know it; I was informed that he was a white man. Question. That is all you know of him, and you do not know his name or anything about him t Answer. No, sir. Question. Was Doctor Kreminger a white or a colored man? Answer. A white man. Question. You were asked in regard to the power of the governor to raise a militia. Have you under your laws a militiasystem? Answer. We have. Question. Does not your constitution provide for it? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You have laws for the organization of a system of militia in your State? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. It is therefore within the power of the State officials to organize that system into active operation if they desire to do so? Answer. Yes, sir; it is in their power. Question. Among your people, have you societies known as Union Leagues? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. How long have they been in existence? Answer. For some time. Question. Be a little more specific. Answer. Well, I do not know exactly how long; ever since the inauguration of this government. Question. For the last three or four years? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Are those Leagues local associations Answer. Not exactly. Question. Describe to us the system of the Leagues. Answer. I do not know that I can describe it exactly. Question. You are a member of the League, and have been at the head of them Answer. No; I have had some connection with them. Question. You are a leading man among your people here? Answer. Yes, sir; of course. Question. When they form within a circumscribed locality, within a county, for instance, a society or club, is not that the beginning? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Does that extend through the county? Answer. Not necessarily. Question. Do your local societies and Leagues come into a general League throughout the State? Answer. Come into a general League Question. The question is a very simple one. Answer. I will answer any question I understand. Qtestion. I can do no more than put a question to a man who has answered as readily

Page  173 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 173 as you have on other subjects. Of course, if you decline to answer, I have nothing more to say. Answer. I do not decline to answer. Question. The question has been put to you, and you can answer it. Answer. I only want to have the question properly before my mind. Question. Have you a State organization of the Union League? Answer. We have. Question. Who is the president of it? Answer. The governor is president of it. Question. Has he been so for some time? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. That extends to county societies and local societies? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You have subdivisions throughout the State, centering in a State society, of which the governor of the State is the head; is that the fact? Answer. It is only a society for the purpose of informing our people in reference to the political movements of the day. Question. I do not propose to ask you in regard to its objects at this time; I shall do so shortly. I am asking you about its existence. Answer. It does exist. Question. And the minor societies are merged in a State society, of which the governor is the head? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Are your people bound by oath at the time they become members of this organization? Answer. Well, they pledge themselves to adhere to the rules of the organization. Question. Are they not sworn in when they become members? Answer. Well, I suppose you might call it swearing. Question. Are there any persons admitted to their counsels but those who are members? Ansoer. No, sir. Questipn. Does it not, as a rule, embrace the colored population of the State? Answer. Colored and white. Question. I am speaking first of the colored population; we will come to the white presently. Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Have you a knowledge of the general condition of the League throughout the State? Answer. Well, I have not now. Question. How many white men in the State of Florida do you suppose are members of the Union League? Answer. I cannot tell; I have no idea. Question. Are they many or few? Answer. We do not count noses, black or white; we take men. Question. I am asking you a fact; men are white or colored, one of the two, tlthough some of them are pretty well mixed. How many men of the white race are members of this organization? Answer. I cannot tell. Question. How many white men in your sounty vote the republican ticket? Answer. Well, I really cannot tell how many in my county voted the republican ticket, or how many voted the democratic ticket, at the last election. Question. You can tell pretty well if any black man votes the democratic ticket-the prodigals, as you term them-and which you say are so few that they are iot worth counting; the democratic party is composed of white men? Answer. The democrats had no ticket at the last election. Question. None at all? Answer. No, sir; they took what was termed a sore-head republican and tried to put him in. Question. Who was he? Answer. A man of the name of Page. Question. Was he a white man? Answer. He was a colored man. Question. They ran him? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. How many voting places have you in Leon County? Answer. We have seven. Question. You spoke of the large counties of the State being generally safe and quiet for your people? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. The smaller counties are where the disorders exist?

Page  174 174 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Answer. As a general thing, all these crimes have been committed in the smaller counties, except in the case of Jackson County. Question. Jackson County seems to be the chief seat of the disorder? Answer. It is. There is where Satan has his seat; he reigns in Jackson County. Question. How long has that been so? Answer. For two or three years, and perhaps longer. Question. Who are now the representatives of that county in the legislature? Answer. I forget their names. Question. Who is the senator from that county? Answer. Major Purman. Question. He was a Bureau agent? Answer. Yes. sir. Question. Who are the members of the lower house? Answer. I forget their names. Question. How many are they? Answer. Two. Question. Are they white or colored? Answer. There is only one colored man, and there are two white men; one of the white men was elected by the republicans, and they expected him of course to stand up to republican principles. During the legislature some question came up in which republicans were particularly interestedQuestion. As a party? Answer. Yes, sir; and he was afraid to vote with us, and finally resigned and went home. He told me he could not stay there except that he voted with the democrats, for if he voted with the republicans and went home he would not live long after he got there. He finally resigned in the middle of the session and went home. Question. How many votes do the colored people give in that county; more than the white people? Answer. I was told by Mr. Hall, who took the census, that they outnumbered them five to one. Question. And therefore they are represented by men elected by the majority? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. The representatives are all republicans from that county? Answer. No, sir; there was one democrat. Question. How was he chosen? Answer. By the people. Question. With five to one against him? Who ran against him? Answer. A man by the name of Jesse Robinson. Question. Was he a colored man? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Did you know him? Answer. I think the democrat had one majority. Question. This white man must have been elected by votes of your people? Answer. Yes, sir; he claims so. Questidn. Is your race in the majority throughout the State Answer. No, sir; I think not..Question. How do you stand? Answer. Pretty nearly even. Question. As many blacks as there are whites? Answer. Very nearly; there is very little difference any way. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. I understand you to say that, as a general thing, if not a universal rule, your people are republicans, and go with the republican party? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Why is that? Answer. Because they think it is no more than right that they should favor the party that favored them. They look upon their liberty as the greatest privilege that could nave been granted to them, and they think that privilege was brought about through the instrumentality of the republican party. Hence it is no more than natural to suppose that they would stand by that party and support it. Question. Hor do they regard the democratic party in its relations to them? Answer. They regard the democratic party as hostile to them; that is the general feeling. Question. Reference has been made to some resolutions that were adopted by your convention of ministers. In one of the resolutions which has been read you spoke of having no intercourse, no correspondence, no business relations with certain parties. Why is that; because of their opinions, or because of their treatment of yoar people? Answer. Both; because of their opinions, and in many cases because of their treatment.

Page  175 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 175 Question. Suppose that men treated you fairly and justly, and accorded to you your rights as you conceived you should have them, what would be the corresponding action of your people toward them, irrespective of any opinions they might entertain, either concerning politics, religion, or anything else? Answer. If they were to concede to our people all their rights, and our people could be convinced, of that fact; if they could create a confidence in our people in regard to that fact, I think it would change the matter materially. Question. In the personal intercourse of men, one with another, have those employers who have dealt fairly and justly with their hands experienced any trouble or inconvenience, so far as you know? Answer. Not in a single instance that I know of. Question. Any troubles and difficulties between the employer and employed that you lay know of are fairly traceable to unjust treatment? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Dishonest practices? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You have been asked about the indictment of the party charged with killing Doctor Kreminger; has there been any person punished by the law for the outrages upon your people that you referred to in the previous part of your testimony? Answer. Not one; they stalk abroad in our land without being molested. Question. You sloke of Mr. Gibbs, secretary of state. I wish you would look at an article in the paper I hand you-the Lake City Herald-and tell us whether he is the same person whose name is attached to that article. I do this for the purpose of getting on this record his estimate of Mr. Dickinson, and also to inquire further whether you know Mr. Dickinson, and whether that is a fair and just estimate of his character as you understood it. [The article is as follows: "DICKINSON, THE MARTYR-A SUGGESTION. "TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA, October 29, 1871. "EDITOR LAKE CITY HERALD: The United States Government has assigned two places in the Hall of Statuary to each State for two of its most distinguished citizens. I propose that the legislature, at its next session, take the proper steps to fill one of these places with a life-size statue of Hon. J. Q. Dickinson, the martyr, saint, hero, who was slain in the defense of the reconstruction laws of Congress, April 3, 1871, in Marianna. "That Mr. Dickinson was a man of unblemished character, fine culture, and scholarly taste, a patriot and gentleman, none doubt who knew him, or had any business relation with him, that were capable of appreciating manhood, or had the slightest instinct of what constitutes a perfect gentleman. " There are many in this State who are ever ready to cherish and preserve the memory of those whose unselfish devotion to justice, truth, and humanity has stamped its impress upon the laws, customs, and habits of this eventful period in the history of of American civilization; men who have attested the sincerity of their consecration to free government, to constitutional liberty, by their steadfast endurance of persecution in its meanest and most bitter form, and with manly courage protested against the insults and indignities that have been inflicted upon a long-suffering, harmless people; and finally, with their own life-blood, baptized anew those heaven-born principles of truth and justice which exalt the Fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man. " Such was J. Q. Dickinson. He has acted his part nobly in the grandest tragedy of modern times; and may the right legacy of his pure life and patriotic devotion to liberty furnish us with stronger incentives to work for the stability of law and order, equal government, and broader considerations of those eternal principles of truth and justice that underlie our duties as citizens, incite us to a higher and loftier devotion for the progress and glory of our common country. "Yours, for even-handed justice, "JOHNATHAN C. GIBBS."] Answer. This is Mr. Gibbs's letter, and that is a fair and true estimate of the character of Mr. Dickinson, as I understand it. Question. You knew him? Answer. Yes, sir; he was a very excellent man. I knew him as a personal acquaintance. Question. When was the election in Jackson County that resulted in the election of a democrat by one vote? Ansuwer. Last November. Question. How did the vote then polled compare with the vote previously polled? Answer. I really cannot say, but the republican vote was greatly decreased; I cannot say exactly what the number was.

Page  176 176 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Question. Was the vote on both sides decreased? Answer. No, sir; the vote on the democratic side was increased, and the vote on the republican side was decreased. Question. How much? lAswer. I cannot give the decrease exactly; but the democratic vote was increased considerably, and the vote on the republican side was decreased considerably. Question. Was the increase on the democratic side as great as the decrease on the republican side? Answer. No, sir; not quite. Question. What is the reason for the decrease of the republican vote in that county? Answer. A great many have told me that they were afraid to go to the polls and vote. Question. What had made them afraid? A nswer. Threats and intimidation that if they voted and voted in a certain way, to use their own vulgar expression there, they would put their light out. Question. What Was the gentleman's name who resigned his seat in the legislature? Answer. I think his name was Barcroft. Question. He told you that he was afraid to vote his sentiments in the legislature, for fear that his life would be imperiled if he should do so? Answer. Yes, sir. I had a conversation with him several times; his seat was adjoining mine, and he wanted to vote with us, but he said he was afraid. Question. Are any leading prominent members of the repullican party still living in Jackson County? Answer. No, sir; they have picked them all off; all the leading prominent republicans there have either been shot by some person or driven away. Question. You have been asked in regard to the Union League, and I understand you to say that Governor Reed is president of it in this State? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. It is a republican organization? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Its existence has never been denied? Answer. No, sir; not by those who belong to it, that I know of. Question. It is a matter that is open and known publicly in the community? Answer. That such an organization exists, yes,.sir. Question. Of course there are no persons members of it unless they claim to be republicans? Answer. That is so. Question. No others I suppose want to join it? Answer. No, sir; I suppose not. Question. I suppose if any democrats desired to connect themselves with the republican party there would be no objection to it? Answer. Not a particle. Question. The more you could get the better you would like it? Answer. Yes, sir. I think they will all come home after awhile. The young democracy will certainly come home, but the old fossils will have to die out. The young men who have a future before them I think are about ready to give up the ship. Question. State whether you find among the younger men, the men of progress, the men whose outlook is in the future, many whose sentiments are softening down towards the colored people and the republicans. Answer. Yes, sir; I know a young man who is a democrat, a perfect gentleman-Mr. Henderson, a senator from Hillsborough County; he is frank to acknowledge that the old democracy has got them by the throat, and that they must get loose or die. He is a perfect gentleman in every respect; a man that I respect very much. Question. Do you find a difference between the men who had what is called in polit-. ical phrase a record before the war and those who had not, who have come forward since the war? Answer. Yes, sir; a material difference. JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA, Novenber 13, 1871. REBECCA U. KREMINGER sworn and examined. By the CHAIRMAN Question. Please state your age, where you were born, and where you now reside. Answer. I am forty-one years old. I was born in Darlington district, South Carolina, and I now reside in New Troy, Lafayette County, in this State. Question. Are you the widow of the late Doctor Kreminger?

Page  177 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 177 Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What was his full name? Answer. John Newton Kreminger. Question. Where did he live, and what was his nativity? Answer. He was raised in Cabarras County, North Carolina. Question. Was he a native of North Carolina? Answer. Yes, sir; but he graduated in South Carolina. Question. At Columbia? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. How long have you been living in New Troy? Answer. Six years the 1st day of December coming. Question. Where did you come from to Florida? Answer. I came from South Carolina. My husband was in the United States service, and wrote me that he thought he would be mustered out, and asked me to meet him in Jacksonville. When I got here he was not mustered out of the service. Question. What position did he hold in the service? Answer. He was commissary sergeant. Question. In what regiment. Answer. I do not recollect; I have letters at home, and if I could look at them I could tell you. Question. Do you know where he enlisted? Answer. I think he enlisted in Mississippi. A greater portion of those men in Lafayette County were in service with him. Question. How had he found his way to Mississippi Answer. He was drafted in Carolina to go into the confederate service, but he said he would never fight against the United States. He crossed the line as soon as he could get a chance and went over. There were three years I never put my eyes on him. I did not see him until the year after the surrender, when I came here. Question. He was drafted into the rebel army and sent to Mississippi? Answer. Yes, sir, and there he left. Question. What was your husband's age? Answer. He was fifty-three years old on the 16th day of September last. Questioln. Were those men in Lafayette County who were in service with him southern men like himself, who had gone into the Federal service? Answer. Yes, sir, they were southern men who had gone with him. Question. By southern men I mean men of southern birth? Answer. Yes, sir, I understand you. Question. At what time was he mustered out of the service? Answer. I cannot tell the date exactly. He was mustered out in Tallahassee. He came back to Monticello, and the next day we moved to where we have been living. It was two days from the time we started from Tallahassee until we got to Lafayette County. We got to New Troy about the 1st day of December. Question. Do you remember what year? Answer. It was six years next December. Question. He is spoken of as Doctor Kreminger? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Was he a physician by profession? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Had he been practicing before the war? Answer. Yes, sir. He never practiced much; in his family and around among his neighbors. Question. How soon after he went to New Troy did he nlngage in politics? Answer. It was right straight-as soon as he got there. Union men came after him to go into political affairs; they said they knew if he did not help them they were gone up in that county. Question. To what office did they elect him? Answer. He went to the legislature, and he was the county judge when he was killed. Question. Do you remember whether he was in the convention that formed the constitution? Answer. Yes, sir, he was. Question. Will you now please give us an account of his being killed, when it was, where it was, and by whom? Answer. Well, it was the morning of the 5th day of October. Question. Last October? Answer. Yes, sir. I reckon the sun was half an hour high. He had just walked into the piazza and washed his hands and face, and had sat down as he usually did every morning after walking out. A few moments after he sat down I heard a gun fired, and I heard him holler; he hollered three times. I ran to him, and just as I got to my room door I saw him rise up and fall over on his face. I went to him and turned him over. He tried to speak but could not. 12 G

Page  178 178 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Question. He was sitting down when he received his shot. Answer. Yes, sir; in a chair with his hand up playing with his watch chain, and one of his fingers was shot off; and he was shot in the breast. Question. Shot with a single ball Answer. Yes, sir; a rifle ball. Question. Who was the man who shot him. Answer. J. C. Poncher. Question. Who was he? Answer. I cannot tell you; I have known him ever since I have been in this State; he has boarded awhile at my house, but he is a very secret man and does not express his opinions much in talking. I heard lately that he said he intended to kill the tax collector and Mr. Sears of the house of representatives before he leaves. Question. What had he against your husband so far as you know? Answer. I think it was all political. Question. Your husband was a leading republican in the county? Answer. Yes, sir: hi was a leading republican. Question. What was Poucher's politics? Answer. He has always said that he was a democrat.,Question. Has he been pretty strong on that side? Answer. He has been for the last twelve months; I have seen in one paper the statement that he was a republican-that Doctor Kreminger was killed by a republican. That is not so; he was a democrat. Question. Have you any reason to suppose that other parties were privy to the killing of your husband? Answaer. Yes, sir; I do think so. Question. State what makes you think so, and who the other parties are. Answer. I think Captain Edwards knew all about it, and I will tell you my reasons for thinking so. The week before Doctor Kreminger was killed he had to carry his children over the water in a boat to school every morning, and to bring theml back in the evening. Poncher was seen in the morning at the water with his double-barrel gun, and a repeater. He staid at Captain Edwards's house, and he was there five evenings and mornings in one week. That makes me think that he must have known what Poncher's intention was. A young fellow came over and told my son-in-law that Poncher had been over there and asked him where Doctor Kreminger landed his children when he carried them over, and if he carried them himself; and then he told this young fellow not to say to anybody that he had seen him. Question. Who is Captain Edwards? Answer. He is a merchant there in New Troy. Question. What are his political belongings? Answer. Just what Poncher's are; he is a strong democrat, or professes to be. I do not know whether he knows what he is; that is the way he talks. Question. Has Poncher made any statement about his killing your husband or how he came to do it? Answer. I understood he did last Monday night in court. Question. What was it? Answer. I heard that he said it was others that urged himn to do it; that lie did get sort of mad one day with Dr. Kremiuger, but had got over it; that it was other pl rties that had urged him to do it; and that if it had not been for them he never would hlave done it. Question. Do you know how the democrats there looked upon your husband? Answer. Yes, sir; they hated him, I reckon, worse than they did " the old boy." He was a Union man, and had been across the line; a deserter, ashlIey say. Question. Did they ever say what would be the effect if they could get hiia out of the way.? Answer. Yes, sir; a good Union man who had crossed the line and was in the service with Mr. Kreminger, told me court week that he understood that Poncher and some others said that not a Union man should hold office three months fiom the time of his death. Question. What other republicans are there holding office in the county? Answer. Mr. Sears and Mr. Scheiber. Question. He said.they all should be killed? Answer. Yes, sir; and the tax-collector, Mr. Rouse. Question. Did they regard your husband as a leader of the republican party I Answer. Yes, sir; they did. Question. What did they ever say would be the effect of getting him out of the way? Answer. I do not know; they had talked so much, they had threatened to kill him so often, that I think that was one reason why he did not think they would do it; it was such a common thing. Question. Have there been any proceedings in the court against Poncher? Answer. Yes, sir; there is a true bill against him.

Page  179 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 179 Question. Has he been arrested? Answer. No, sir. Question. Why not? Answer. The sheriff has been after him twice, but when the sheriff goes over into La Fayette he goes over into Suwannee. He has some of his strong democratic friends in Suwannee, right by the river there, who I suppose are helping him. Mr. SeArs said that Mr. Mosely told him that last Saturday night two weeks ago Poncher said he never intended to be arrested alive, for they had got him to do this thing; that he did not interrupt any one; that he had nothing to go away with; and he knew it would be nothing but death if they caught him, and he never intended to be taken alive. Question. Did you ever talk with your husband, before he was killed, about attempts to take his life? Answer. Yes, sir; he and I talked about it the day before. Question. What did he say? Answer. Well, he said he had but one time to die; that he knew if they would kill him they would do it slily; they would take some advantage of him; they would never come out boldly and do it. They did take some advantage; they came within forty yards of my piazza; it is just forty yards from the edge of my piazza to the court-house window. Poncher went into the upper story of the court-house and slipped back the window, and just as my husband sat down in the porch he shot him. Question. Have there been any other persons killed there recently? Ansiwer. In the county? Question. Or in that part of the State? Answer. His is the eighth murder there has been there in a little better than two years. Question. In that county? Answer. Yes, sir; and none of those who committed the deeds have ever been brought to justice or arrested. Question. Were all the persons killed republicans? Answer. All that I know were republicans; Sam. Edwards, Mr. Ashley, Mr. Foster, and my husband were republicans. Question. Have there been any colored people killed? Answer. Yes, sir; there was a colored man killed at Old Town; he was killed by another colored man, who made his escape. Question. Who was Mr. Ashley? Answer. I just knew the man when I saw him. Question. Where was he killed? Answer. Down near the coast. Question. How long was that before or after your husband was killed? Answer. My husband was killed on Thursday, and Mr. Ashley was killed on Wednesday of the week before. Question. Do you know who killed him? Answer. No, sir. Question. You do not know whether Poncher killed him or not? Answer. No, sir. Question. Do you know whether a Mr. Allison was killed? Answer. I have heard of his being killed. Question. When and where? Answer. I do not know: 1 heard some men say the day the doctor was killed that that made three murders in less than three weeks, and they named Mr. Allison. Question. Mr. Ashley and Mr. Allison were, like your husband, republicans? Answer. Yes, sir; I know Mr. Ashley was, and I think Mr. Allison was. Question. Do you know what the feeling of the Union people is in your county on the subject of their safety or protection? Answer. Well, they think it bad. Question. Have you had any talk with any of them? Answer. Yes, sir; I heard Mr. Wesley say once that if there was not some alteration he should have to leave the county, for a Union man's life-was not safe there. Question. Who has the majority in the county, fairly and properly? Answer. Well, it should go fairly and properly for the Union men; but they have got so that a great many of them are afraid to express their opinions. Question. Are there any people in your county that are called carpet-baggers, that is, northern men, who have come in since the war? Answer. Yes, sir; my husband used to hear enough of that; he used to get his share of cursing about carpet-baggers. Question. Did they call him a carpet-bagger? Answer. They used to curse him about the carpet-baggers and niggers; they said they were all who supported him. Question. Are there many northern men in the county? Answer. I do not know how many there are; there are some few.

Page  180 180 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Question. I understand that a large portion of the Union men, the soldiers, were southern-born men, like your husband? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Men who had gone across the line, and served under the United States Government? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. In what part of South Carolina did you live at the beginning of the war? Answer. I lived in Darlington district. Question. Were there a great many Union men in that district? Answer. Not many; but they were not like they are here; they did not wish to kill every man that was not like them. A Union man's family there was not mistreated' because he had gone over to the other side, like they do here in Florida. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. You say your husband came to Florida in the year 1865? Answer. I think it was; I won't be certain. Question. He went at once into political life? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. He engaged actively in politics? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What was the occupation of Poncher? Answer. He was clerk of the court awhile. Question. How old a man was lie? Answer. I reckon he is going on sixty years old. Question. An old man? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Had he a family there? Answer. He has a family, but he does not stay with his family. Question. Do you mean that he has abandoned them? Answer. Yes, sir; his life is bad; he has led a bad life from report; he is a bad man. Question. Irrespective of his crime in murdering your husband, was he a bad man in character before that time? Answer. That is what the citizens all tell me, that they never knew anything good of him. Question. How long ago was it that he was clerk of the court? Answer. I do not know. Question. About how long; since you have been there? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Within the last year or two? Answer. He was removed from office. Question. By whom? Answer. By Governor Reed. Question. Was he appointed to office by Governor Reed first? Answer. I think so. He came out and made out that he was a good Union man, and I thought for a while that he was a Union man, until the citizens began to tell us about him. From his acts in the office Mr. Kreminger said he must be removed. Question. Did Mr. Kreminger have him removed from the clerkship? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Was he removed because he found out he was not a Union man. Answer. I reckon it was; I cannot say. Question. He had been appointed by Governor Reed to this clerkship of the court? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. How long did he hold it? Answer. I do not know. Question. A year or two? Answer. I think nearly two years. Question. Then you saythat Mr. Kreminger found out he was not a Union man, and had him removed? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Did that make this man very angry at him? Answer. Yes, sir, it did. Question. Do you think that that was what led to his assault upon your husband? Answer. I cannot say. Question. Had he anything else against him but that? Answer. He was always going on about the constitution and the republican laws, saying they were the meanest laws that ever were; that nobody could live under them. Question. Did he say that after he was removed, or before? Answer. Before. Question. Your husband had him'removed from office?

Page  181 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 181 Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You say he had always professed to be a Union man or a republican, before that time.? Answer. That'is the way he talked when he came and tried to get the office of clerk. Question. Did your husband originally recommend him for appointment? Answer. I cannot say. Question. What office did you say your husband held? Anlswer. He was county judge. Question. And this man was the clerk of his court? Answer. He was put out, and my husband was put in as county judge after he was out. Question. He had him removed first by his influence with Governor Reed? Answver. Yes, sir. Question. How long after he was removed did he shoot your husband? lswiver. Poncher was removed some time last March, I think. Question. In the spring of the present year? IAnswer. Yes, sir. Question. And he committed this murder in the following October? Answere. Yes, sir. Question. Was Poncher a drinking man? Answcer. Yes, sir; he drank a great deal; he always kept drinking, but never got down drunk; I never saw him stagger. Question. You say that his life was dissolute, otherwise; that he did not live with his family? Answer. That is what the neighbors say; I do not like to say what I do not see and know myself. Question. I want to get a general view of this man's character. Answer. It is bad, so the neighbors say. Question. As I understand you, he came in the morning; what time of the day was this murder committed? Answer. It was right early in the morning; I reckon the sun was a half an hour high when it was done. Question. About 7 o'clock? Anszver. I suppose it was. Question. He shot your husband from where? Answer. From the court-house window. He just raised the window on a crack; they just slide backward and forward, and he opened it a little. Question. He shot him with a double-barrel gun? Answer. They say that one barrel was a rifle, and the other barrel was a shot-gun. He went and exchanged his gun with some other man down there, so as to get the shotgun and rifle all in one. Question. Had Poncher any other means of support; was he a man of any property at all? Answer. No, sir; I think his family, his wife and daughters, made their own support. Question. He was a man of no means at all, except this office he once held? Answer. That was all. Question. When he shot your husband, you went out and found him dying? Answer. Yes, sir. Question, How long did he survive? Answer. It seems to me like it was almost an hour; I do not know; I cannot tell. Question. He died in a little time? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Did he know who killed him? Answer. I said, " My dear, Poncher has killed you," and he nodded his head twice. The ferryman, old Uncle Martin, a colored man, said, " Doctor, are you hurt bad?t and he nodded his head twice. Question. Had Poncher abused him, and talked with him, after his removal? Answer. Not that I ever heard or knew of. Question. Poncher knew that he had caused him to be removed? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Who did he appoint in his place? Answer. My son-in-law, Mr. Hawkins. Question. He was appointed clerk in the place of this man? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Your husband is judge of the court now t Answer. He was judge of the court when he was killed; we have no judge now Question. When this man committed this murder, what did he do? Answer. He jumped right out of the door, and went to the back of the court-house. When I was stooping over my husband, my little daughter said, "There is Poncher;" he was peeping at me. I said to my daughter, " Go into the house, and bring me the

Page  182 182 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. gun." He started to run, and he stopped three times between the court-house and the grocery, and turned around and looked back. Question. Had he a gun with him? Ansuer. Yes, sir; and he went right past the grocery a few rods, and stepped in his boat, and went right across. Question. What water is that he crossed? Answer. There was a great fresh in the river, and the whole of Troy, almost as far as you could see, was overflowed. Question. He gotiin his boat, and went away? Answer. Yes, sir. The only dry place in town was where my house and the courthouse stood. Question. And'he went away t Answer. Yes, sir; when my son-in-law had got to my house he was gone. Question. Has he been seen there since? Answer. No, sir. Question. He evades the sheriff by going into the adjoining county? Alnwer. Yes, sir; so the sheriff says the people tell him. Question. The political sentiment of the people of your county is republican? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. The sheriff is appointed by the governor? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. He is a republican? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Is he anxious to make the arrest? Answer. I think he is, but it is just this way as I tell you; where he gets a Union man to go with him he says he can depend upon him, but there are some others he cannot depend upon. Question. He knows whom to depend upon and whom not? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. A majority of the county are with him in sentiment? Answer. Yes, sir; but the majority are' in the lower part of the county, far away from him. Question. Did you go before the grand jury and give your testimony? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And a true bill was found? Answer. Yes, sir; that is what they tell me. Question. And you say this man has evaded the sheriff thus far? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Has the governor been told of this murder? Answer. I think my son-in-law wrote to him. Question. He is the clerk of the court? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Has the governor offered a reward for the apprehension of this man? Answer. I do not know; I got sore papers yesterday, but I have not had time to read them. Question. You said something about this man Poncher being a democrat; do you know whether he had any politics at all? Answer. I heard my husband and Mr. Sears say that he said he was a democrat from the crown of his head to the soles of his feet. Question. Your husband disapproved of Poncher very much? Answer. I suppose so. Question. He thought him a very bad man, and had him removed from office? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You have spoken of a number of men who were killed, and you mentioned some names of those you said were members of the republican party. Do you know who the others were who were killed? Answer. I do not. rQuestion. Do you know anything about what their politics were? Answer. No, sir; I do not. Question. Do you kndr who killed these various men? Answer. It has been said — Question. Have persons been indicted for it? Answer. There are true bills against two men there now, but neither of them have been arrested. Question. What are their names? Answer. Mr. Parker and Dick Hunter. Question. When was that? Answer. Two years ago last August. Question. What did they do? Answer. They went to his home where he was at work, and Parker went for Foster,

Page  183 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 183 and Edwards said they were going to hunt cattle, and at night they were killed. Foster and Edwards were at Mr. Parker's house. Question. Where were they shot? Answer. About two miles from Mr. Parker's house; so I heard..Question. Shot by those men who were charged with it? Answer. There were some others charged with it, but there were true bills found against those two. Question. Do you know the cause of that murder? Aswcer. I do not. Question. Do you know anything about the cause of it? 4Answer. No, sir. Question. Do you know anything of the politics of the parties connected with that crime? Anszwer. No, sir; I cannot say. Question. Were the other murders you speak of committed under similar circumstances? Ans'f'er. I cannot tell you. Quesiion. Have you any further knowledge of the cause of them than you have of the last one you spoke of? Answer. No, sir; I have not. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. I do not know that I understood your statement about the men who were killed at the time they were hunting cattle. What were their names? Answer. Sam Edwards and Frank Foster. Question. By whom were they killed? Answer. It was said they were killed by Dick Hunter and Henry Parker. Question. There were others concerned with them, but those were the parties indicted? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Had your husband been informed of Poncher's waylaying him before he was killed? Answer. Yes, sir; he had been told of it. Question. Did he keep away from Edwards's house where he waylaid him? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You think Poncher was removed from the clerkship in the March of last spring? Answver. Yes, sir; I think it was in March. Question. Where had he been staying all that time? Answer. After he was removed? Question. Yes; where did he live? Answer. I do not know. Question. You do not know where he made his home? Answer. No, sir. Question. Had he staid in New Troy? Answer. He had staid there while he was clerk a part of the time. Question. And when he was removed he went away? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Have you heard of any people in that county that are commonly called KuKlux? Answer. Yes, sir; there are some of them who boast of it. I have never heard them talk myself, but I have heard others say so. Question. Do you know whether this man Poncher claimed to belong to them or not? Answer. I do not know. Question. Who did you ever hear of boasting that they belonged to the Ku-Klux? Answer. I have heard several speaking about their having a Ku-Klux meeting down in the lower part of the county, but I cannot tell whether it is so, and I don't like to tell anything without I know it is so. Question. Were these killings supposed to be connected with the Ku-Klux organization? Answer. Yes, sir; I think so. Question. Do other people think so besides you? Answer. What? do they think the Ku-KluxQuestion. That they killed your husband and others? Answer. Yes, sir; and that they killed Foster and others. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. Now, have you any knowledge of the cause of this murder of your husband by these people, other than what you have stated to us? Answer. I think it was political.

Page  184 184 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Question. That is all you know? Answzer. Yes, sir; and I believe it was just so. Question. The facts you have stated are all the facts you know? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. When you have been asked about this organization called Ku-Klux, have you any knowledge of the subject yourself? Answer. No, sir. Question. None whatever t Answer. No, sir. Question. When you were asked whether this murder of your husband or the murders of these other people were caused by them, have you any other facts to base it upon than what you have stated to us? Answer. No, sir. JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA, November 13, 1871. MALACHI MARTIN sworn and examined. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. What is your age, where were you born, where do you now reside, and what position do you occupy at present? Answoe. I am forty-nine years old; I was born in Ireland; and I now reside in Chattahoochee, Gadsden County, in this State. At present I am warden of the State's prison. Question. How long have you been in Gadsden County? Answer. I have been a resident there since the 1st of January, 1869. Question. As warden of the State's prison all the time? Answer. Yes, sir; warden or commandant. At first it was a military prison; but a law was passed changing the title of the officer in charge from commandant to warden. Question. Since'you have been there have you been admonished to take care of yourself personally? Answer. I have. Question. By whom, in what way, and from what? Answer. I received a letter through the mail telling me if I remained in the position I then occupied, my fate would be that of others who had stolen and robbed the southern country. Here is the letter I received. [Handing the chairman a letter.] Question. I see it is post-marked Marianna. Answer. Yes, sir. Question. That is in Jackson County? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What is the distance from Marianna to Chattahoochee? Answer. Twenty-eight miles. [The letter referred to is as follows: " HELLS HOLE, April 13th 1871 Col MARTIN: You have used some language against me that is unjust & if you remain in the position, you now ocupy your fate will be as others, that has stolen and robed our southern country Respet &c One who knows you and all of you rascility "] Question. Have you any knowledge who wrote this letter? Answer. Not the most remote. Question. You do not recognize the handwriting? Answer. No, sir. Question. Or call to mind any occurrence that connects anybody with this? Answer. None whatever. Question. Have you had anything else in the same direction? Answer. Nothing of a threatening nature; I have been cautioned. Question. By whom, and when, and against what? Answer. Soon after the receipt of that letter I wrote to the editor of the Courier, in Marianna, inclosing a copy of that letter, stating that it was postmarked at Marianna, and I presumed the author sometimes visited there; that I was not aware of having used any unjust language toward any person, and if any person thought I had, should they call on me I would give what explanation I had in my power, and if I could not satisfy them I would give them the best in my shop; that if they proposed to do any killing I had no objection to die as Dickinson had, and they might as well begin with me as with any other person. That was not published as I know of, but a very abusive article was. Soon after that, between 12 and 1 o'clock at night, two gentlemen came

Page  185 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 185 to my residence and were admitted. Both were acquaintances of mine, and, I presumed, friends. I received them in my bed-room and asked them what they were doing that time of night sloshing around, going about and Ku-Kluxing a fellow. I said this in a joking kind of a way. They asked me if I had any whisky, and I said I had not.'One with whom I was the most intimate I touched with my elbow, and we walked out on the big porch, where I said to him, " What is all this; what are you fellows here for?" He said,' I can't tell you; so and so," mentioning the name of the other one, "will tell you." I returned to the bed-room, and the other gentleman said, "I want to speak to you; come here." I walked out on the porch again, and he asked me some questions to satisfy himself what he presumed I was. Being satisfied of that he said, " I want you not to go out of these walls until you get Teave from me." I said, " Is that all?" He said, "That is all." I said, "All right." We then returned to the bed-room, and he again asked if I had any whisky, and I said, "No." They said, "Good-night," and left. Three or four days afterward one of the parties returned-not the one who cautioned me, but the other-and asked me if I had any whisky, and I said I had not. He said, " Come down town and take a drink." I asked him if he was speaking by authority, and he said, "Yes." I said, *Is it all right?" He said, "Yes." I said, "Is the coast clear?" He laughed and said, " Yes, come on." We went down town, got a drink, and I returned. Afterward I asked him if he thought there was any danger, and he said, " No, I think it is all right now." On a previous occasion I had engaged with some gentleman to go across the river into Jackson County on a fishing excursion. Wee appointed the day, but the night previous to the day when we were to go an acquaintance of mine called at the door of the house about 9 o'clock at night and said, "You are going over to the lake to fish to-morrow?" I said, "Yes." He said, whispering, "I have come to give you a friend's advice: do not go." I said, "All right." He wert away, and I did not go. Question. Was there any reason you can assign why these men should have taken interest enough in your personal welfare to come to you and give you that sort of advice? Answer. They were friends and acquaintances of mine. They differ with me in politics; but they are good citizens, and I think they are opposed to any violation of the law. They are personal friends of mine. Question. That was the only relation between you and them? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Do you know any reason why any hostility should have been exhibited to you personally? Have you had any difficulty with anybody? Answer. None; on the contrary my relations with all my acquaintances up to that time had been quite pleasant. Question. To what did you attribute this manifestation of unfriendly feeling? Answer. It would be hard for me to say what reason there was for it. As I said to you, I have had no personal difficulty with any person. My relations with those with whom I have come in contact have been pleasant, even with those who are opposed to me politically. I meet them, and in a joking way I call them "Johnny Rebs," and they call me " Yank." I cannot form any idea that I could swear was a reason for it. Question. You spoke of a paper publishing an abusive article? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What was the character of the abuse? Answer. I do not remember the terms used, but it stated that no person would think of such a thing as interfering with me; that 1 was beneath any notice. Question. Do you know anything about any attempt on the part of the State government to provide arms for its militia? Answer. I do. Question. When was that, and what was it? Answer. I think it was in 1868 that the governor purchased some arms in New York, and they were brought on here. The first that I saw of any of them was the residue of those which were broken in pieces, and they were brought to the office I then occupied in the capitol. They were brought there from the railroad, where they were picked up by the United States troops, or under their supervision., Question. What was the fate of those arms; what became of them? Answer. I heard they were ultimately sold, or something of that kind done with them. Of the broken parts I selected some forty muskets. I was very hard set to get forty that were any way serviceable. I have never seen arms on the battle-field after an action in such a condition as they were; they were very badly broken. Question. By whom and how Answer. I heard,they were broken on the railroad. The adjutant general told me that he had them put in cars at Jacksonville, and the cars locked; that he went into the passenger car, and when he arrived in Tallahassee those cars were empty. There was no mark of violence on the cars, as if they had been broken open. I heard that the guns were distributed along the road as if they were thrown out while the cars

Page  186 186 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS' IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. were in motion. They were picked up afterward under the supervision of the United States troops. Question. What is the most satisfactory theory of the manner in which they were disposed of? Answer. The impression left upon my mind, from all I had heard and seen, was, that the political party opposed to the administration heard that these arms were coming here, and that the State militia were to be armed; that arms would be put in the hands of negroes, to which they were opposed. In order to prevent it, through an organization and in collusion with some officials of the railroad company, a party of men were admitted into the cars, and while in motion the arms were thrown out, and other parties there weretrepared to receive them and break them up so as to prevent the militia being armed. Question. This was done in collusion with some of the railroad officials? Answer. It would appear so from the fact that the adjutant general told me that the cars were locked after the arms were put in them, and there were no marks on the cars, as if they had been broken open. Question. Were there any railroad officials opposed to the State government? Answer. So far as I know, they were all of a different complexion of politics. Question. The railroad was under democratic influence? Answer. So I understand; my impression is that they were held in check in that way; I think all the employ6s were held in check in that way. Question. You have said something about organized parties; do you know anything of an organization existing in this State? Answer. I do not know of any personally; I do not belong to any secret political organization, and never have. I have heard of the Union League; I have heard of Ku-Klux, of Brotherhoods, and of different organizations, but I have never seen any, and I do not know of any of my own knowledge. Question. What information have you concerning the Ku-Klux that you deem reliable? Answer. The very frequent murders in Jackson County committed by an organization. It was reported, and I have seen and heard, I think, from very reliable sources, that such an organization existed. I have heard men's names mentioned who were men of means who did not actually themselves commit the violence, but they supported parties who did. Question. How supported them? Answer. Financially and by advice. Question. Do you know anything about the organization known as the Democratic Club? Ansuwer. I have heard that there was such a one; I have had gentlemen tell me that there was such an organization, and that they belonged to it. Question. Do you know whether there is any connection or supposed connection between the Democratic Club and the organization called the Ku-Klux? Answer. I do not know whether there is or not. Question. You say gentlemen have told you that they belonged to the Democratic Club t Answer. Yes, sir. Question. When, and how recently? Answer. Why, to-day. Question. Who told you so? Answer. Mr. John Williams told me that he was the president, or head. in Leon County, in Tallahassee. Several gentlemen have told me that they belonged to it. One gentleman told me that he was in a meeting in Tallahassee where a citizen of good standing there, a lawyer, made a most inflammatory speech, urging the young men as to what course they should pursue. Question. Well, what course? Answer. He said that-mentioning this gentleman's name while he was making his speech-he said to them, that they should receive them, alluding to what are known as carpet-baggers; that they should receive them at the dagger's point, and on the point of the steel. The young man who was telling me was a brave, fine young fellow, had been in the war here, and he immediately stepped out and said to the gentleman, * Yes, and when we did that and were fighting you staid at home; and now you want to shove us into it again while you stop at home. For one, I object to any such thing." He said they had quite a dispute there in the club at the time. Question. Have you heard any other person speak of belonging to it excepting Mr. Williams? Answer. I have heard many admit it; they do not deny it at all, nor that it is a secret organization. Question. How long ago was the first you heard of it? Answer. The first that I heard of it wad in 1868. They asked me if I knew of a secret republican organization, and they then said that they had their own organiza

Page  187 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 187 tion; that they would counteract and beat any organization the republicans, or, as they said, " the niggers" would get up,. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. That was the Union League, I suppose? Answer. I think they had reference then to what was known as the Lincoln Brotherhood. By the CrAIRMAN: Question. What is the condition of political feeling in your part of the State? Answer. In my immediate vicinity in Gadsden County it is very peaceable, indeed, and 1 do not know but what it is peaceable all over the county. On the day of election there was a great deal of excitement; none of any consequence at the polls where I was an inspector. In the morning I thought there was a great, deal of danger. The poll-books that came up were checked as to the parties who ought to be challenged who had left the county, men who were under age, men who had registered twice; there was a memorandum made so that they might be challenged, and no illegal voting take place. Before the polls were open a man by the name of Gunn came up and said he was deputy marshal, and wanted to take away the books, which I refused to allow him to do. He then arrested the one of the inspectors who brought the books up, and took him away. I was chairman of the board of inspectors, and immediately had the voters present elect another inspector. I had heard that this man Gunn, who remained there sose time, had threatened to shoot me as I carme out of the polling place; but he left, before the polls were closed, and I was not interfered with. I heard of excitement and threats, and there was a very narrow escape, indeed, from a riot in Quincy. I was not there, and do not know of anything of my own personal knowledge in regard to it. Qliestion. How is the feeling between the two parties as to being aggressive and insulting toward each other; is either'party inclined to that? Answer. There are among the democrats some men who will not insult you, but a great majority of them on every occasion will use such language either to you or at you as to provoke a quarrel immediately, without you have great control of your temper. They will damn all radicals; damn all carpet-baggers; wish them in hell. While Mr. Meacham was addressing a meeting in Quincy, I heard one gentleman say, " Damn him; I wish he and all the other radicals were in hell, and I had the key." I was near by him and asked him on which side of the door he wanted to be. He said he did not know but what he would be damned if he would not be willing to be inside if he could keep all the others in there. I had occasion to go to Bainbridge a short time ago, and a gentlemtan came up and said, " You are Colonel Martin?" I said, "Yes, sir." He said,' I am Colonel Smith; I want you to come and take a drink with me." ~ I said, " Excuse me; I do not drink." He said, "I want you to do so; I have heard of you." I tried to get off, but it was of no use. We walked over to a place open as a bar, and we got a glass of ale. He took a sip of it, and then threw the rest on the floor and said that they gave him too much; and then said, " I wish all the radicals in your State were in hell; damn Purman, damn Reed, damn every radical from top to bottom." I was in a strange place, with no friends about me. Question. You were in Georgia? Answer. Yes, sir; but we were both from Gadsden; I turned and walked off, and another gentleman came up to me and said, " You are a man of sense; he has been drinking, and I hope you will not notice him; of course I am his friend, and would have to take his part if you get into a row with him." Such things often occur. There are many who are perfect gentlemen who will speak to you on the subjects of the day without any such insulting language or manner. By Mr BAYARD: Question. When did you come to Florida? Answer. In January, 1865. Question. What was your first occupation? Answer. I was captain and assistant quartermaster. Question. In the service of the United States? Answer. Yes, sir; in the volunteers. Question. What was your first occupation in the State under State authority? Answer. I left the Army and went to planting. The only position I ever held in the State was that of commandant, or superintendent, or warden of the State prison. Question. Appointed by Governor Reed? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You were speaking of the disorders in Jackson County, and of the murders committed there. Does your knowledge of, and your statements in reference to, those disorders come from hearsay and rumor, or from knowledge of your own? Answer. There is one instance where I buried two men myself. The fear was so great that I could not get my guard to obey my orders, and go and bring back the body

Page  188 188 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. of one of my guard who was murdered there. I then tried to hire citizens, but I could not hire them for any price; they refused to go. I then went myself; the guard wished to go and take arms, but I would not allow them, lest it should provoke a breach of the peace. Question. In what year? Answer. In 1869. Question. In what month? Answer. I do not remember the month; I have the date at home. I can tell you how they were killed if you wish. Question. Certainly, I want your own knowledge. Answer. I was absent from Cattahoochee, in Tallahassee. During my absence the guard heard that a man of the name of Thomas Barnes, a notorious character, who is represented to be the hired assassin of the Ku-Klux, or this secret organization in Jackson County-it is said that they would indicate who they wanted murdered, and he would do it. Barnes was a man who was a sergeant in the confederate service, and was afterward detailed to take up deserters, and for that purpose he had a pack of dogs. They hounded these fellows out of the swamps. After the war he left there, but had no visible means of support. He dressed well, drove a good horse, and had money. Several murders had been committed, and a reward had been offered for the murderer of Dr. Finlayson, I think; it was supposed that Barnes was the murderer. My guard having heard that a reward was offered, and, aside from that, being anxious that he should be arrested, in my absence went over to JacksongCounty after him. They had got information from some woman where Barnes used to stop, that he was to be there; she agreed to take away his pistols while he was in bed. It was said he used to sleep with her. Question. A woman of bad character? Answer. I do not suppose'it was very good. Question. She was recognized as a woman of bad character? Anszwer. I do not understand that she was understood to be a public woman. He stopped with her, and she agreed with the guard to take away his pistols, and then they could come in and arrest him. They went over for that purpose. He did not come there that night, but she told them that he would certainly be there that day. They lay in a little corn-crib close to the house. There was a man from Marianna-a citizen who knew Barnes. The guard did not know hin, but this man was in their company to point him out. Both of the men in the guard were colored men. While in that corn-crib they heard a man crying out for assistance, and peeped out through the cracks and saw two white men-one having hold of a negro and pounding him over the head with a pistol or something. The guard rushed out and called to these men, "Turn that man loose;" whereupon, the man turned around and shot them dead. There were two bullet holes in one of them —one in his chin and one in his neck; the other had three shots right in his breast. The other guard made his escape in the corn-field. That was on Wednesday, and Thursday morning he got back to the prison. He said there were a crowd there; he was very much excited, and I do not know that he could tell who they were. That evening I heard there were two men dead on the road near where this occurrence took place. The next morning I ordered the guard to go over, without arms, so as not to provoke any trouble. They went down to the river, and then returned and refused to go. I told the first sergeant to go out and hire some citizens; that I would pay whatever they asked. I had two boxes made to bring the bodies back in. The sergeant came back and reported that he could not hire any man for anything. Sunday morning I had the boxes taken down to the river. I had to pay the ferryman $5 to put me over; he was so much afraid that nothing but money would induce him to take me over. At first he refused, but I told him that I must go, and that I would take his boat myself, or that he could take me over and have the money. He said he would go for $5, and I paid him that amount to take me over. At that time the sergeant came down and said, " I will go with you;" and talked just as if he was sacrificing his life to go. I went over the river, and met a gentleman who said he would go with me and show me the road. We went over and found the bodies. Their condition was such that we could not put them in the boxes, they were so much decomposed. We dug holes on the side of the road and buried them thereputting rails under them and rolling them into the holes. Question. Wasafhat man who killed those men this man Barnes? Answer. I do not know. The circumstances I heard then would lead me to believe that it was a man by the name of Newton Williams, and from that I inferred that knowing I was the commandant of the guard, knowing I had enlisted the negroes, and presuming that I was of the most radical stripe, the sooner I was got out of the way the better. That is the presumption on my part; I will tell you why I have come to such a conclusion. A lady of very strict veracity told me the day that murder was comimitted, that Newton Williams and some man who was stopping with hinm-a stranger-had both been drinking, and had drank up all the whisky they had, and were going to Chattahoochee to get a fresh supply. They were seen coming down the

Page  189 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 189 road towards where the murder was committed, less than half an hour before the shooting was done; there was no other person went down there. The women in the house say they were white men, but would not mention any names. Question. The women in the house where Barnes was to be captured? Answer. Yes. sir. Question. There were other women there? Answer. Yes, sir; a woman and her family, and this was one of her daughters. The fact that no one else was seen going down there, that there was no other road leading to the place, that they were seen coming back afterwards, and the character of the man, led me to believe he was the guilty party. He lived in the county, and he heard of my plan to go fishing, and. the man who told me not to go afterwards told me that this was the man whom he had heard talk about me. Question. This Newton Williams was the man who you believed was the person against whose evil intentions you were warned on the occasion you have spoken of? Alnswer. On the occasion when I was going fishing, not on the other occasion. Question. You do not implicate him in that as you do in the fishing affair? Answer. No, sir. Question. Had this man been indicted for that murder? Answer. No, sir. Question. Had any one been indicted? Answer. No, sir. Question. Had any warrant been issued at that time for the arrest of anybody? Answer. I think there was a warrant issued for him. Question. Do you think your guard held it at the time they went over after him? Answer. I do not think they did; my impression is that it came from Marianna; that the man from Marianna who was with them had it. Question. Some person from a different part of the community? Answer. Yes, sir; this man coming from Marianna, seeing my guard, thought they would be a good support to help arrest Barnes. Question. He knew Barnes and the others did not? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. It was a kind of speculation of their own, to gain the reward offered for the arrest of the murderer in that case? Answer. Partly so, but I think in great part to get Barnes anyhow. He was a notorious person, and represented to be the hired assassin of these parties. I wasfrequently asked to allow the guard to go, armed, and take him anyhow, because so many bhlck people had been murdered, and he was the tool for murdering them; they wanted to get him anyhow. Question. They made an arrangement with this woman that she should betray him to them? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Did they make a pecuniary bargain with her? Answer. I think not; I rather think it was a friendly act. Question. On her part? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Towards them? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. It was scarcely so toward Mr. Barnes? Answer. No, sir. Question. It was on that occasion that these two men were shot? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Were these the only two murders you know personally about? Answer. I know of Fleischman being murdered. Question. Do you know any of the circumstances of his murder? Answer. I did not see the man after he was killed, but I can tell the circumstances I know in regard to it. Fleischman called on me and wished to be protected. I said to him, " I cannot protect you; my duties are here; if you are sent here to me I will protect you." Question. You would keep him safe within the walls? Answer. Yes, sir; but I could not take him back to Jackson County. I advised him not to go there, but he said he was compelled to go; that all he had in the world was there; that he had a large amount out; that he had trusted the planters a great deal, I do not recollect the amount, but he said they would gather their crop and sell it, and he would not be able to collect his money unless he was there; that his family were there; that his store and stock of goods and all his interests were there, and he must go back. I went down to Chattahoochee with him, and met several persons there and asked them if they had heard anything from Jackson; if they knew whether there was a sheriff there, and what condition things were in. They could not tell ine anything about it; communication was stopped; every one was afraid to go there, and no person would go except some one who supposed he would be safe, who was one of the

Page  190 190 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. white people who belonged to the party there; some such person as that might go, but no person who was a republican would go. Fleischman said he would go back. He went on his way to Marianna and met a young man of the name of Sims who had been in his employment. Question. A black man or a white man? Answer. A white man and a strong democrat; he afterward fled to Texas for the murder of a black man. Sims told me this himself; that he met Fleischman on the road and asked him where he was going, and Fleischman told him he was going to Marianna. He said to Fleischman, " Don't go; if you do you will be murdered; you cannot live there. Go back with me to Chattahoochee; I will give you a seat in the buggy; but don't go to Marianna, for as soon as you get there you will be killed." Fleischman said he would venture, telling the same story to him that he had told to me; that his property was there; his children and wife were there. From where Sims met him and talked with him in that way to where he was killed was about a half a mile. Persons who saw the'body, men of veracity, told me the manner in which it laid, where it was shot, &c. Question. What was Fleischman's occupation? Alnswer. He was a merchant. Question. Had he any political office? Answer. No, sir. Question. Did he take any particular part in politics at all, or was he a man attending to his business as a merchant there? Answer. It was so represented to me. Question. Was Fleischman an active politician in any way? Answer. Not at all. I think he did not interfere with politics; he was looking for money. The immediate cause of hostility to him was this: A picnic party of colored people who were going out were fired upon and several of them were killed; a ball passed through a child in the arms of a man who was carrying him, killing him and the child. There was a great deal of excitement there, and Fleischman told me himself that he was greatly excited, and he had no doubt that he did use this language: " If the colored people are to be murdered in this way, for every black man that is murdered there should be three white people killed." He said, I think. that he made use of that expression in the street; they alleged that he said so. After having said that he was driven out of the county, and returning back to his home he was murdered. In regard to the murder of Yearty, I will say I had some guards from Calhoun County, white men who were on the road and met Yearty and spoke to him. He went on and they went on; they saw this man Luke Lot sitting behind a tree. He had two doublebarrel guns with him. They stopped him and spoke to him and asked him if he was out then; that is if he was on his keeping at that time; if he was evading the law, living in the woods. He said, " You go on; here is a man coming I think I want to see." They went on and had just got around a bend of the road when they heard a, gun discharged. They went back; one parted from the other, and going a shorter way back came up and met Luke Lot and spoke to him. He gave this man a little parcel with a pair of old shoes in it, and said, "Take that back to my daughter," and then rode off. He then went on up and found Yearty in the road murdered; they all got back there and found the body yet warm. Question.'From which it was supposed that Lot had murdered that man? Answer. Yes, sir. Yearty was a representative in the legislature. Question. What sort of a man was Lot; what was his condition in life; what did he do? Answer. He was a farmer. Qtestion. What was his character before that? Answver. He was a desperado. A man who saw me the other day in the woods was introduced to me as Mr. Jones; I knew well enough who he was. He calne to caution me about what the republicans in Gadsden should do. He said that Luke Lot was a thug; that'was his expression. Question. An assassin? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. He has no regard whatever for life? Answer. I think from all I know of him that he was a very bad man. Question. A desperado, and a wild, reckless man? Answer. I do not know how wild he is; he does not drink; he is very cool and very deliberate. Question. Wildness is sometimes caused by liquor and sometimes by passion. Answer. I think he is a calculating man. I do not call such a man as that wild; I call a man wild who will do things in a passion; he does not do that. Question. Where is he now? Answer. The last I heard of him he was at home, and no person dared go near his house. Question. In Jackson County?

Page  191 FLORIDA-SUB-COUMMITTEE. 191 Answer. No, sir, I think he lives in Calhoun County. Question. Was he ever indicted for this murder of Yearty? Answer. I do not know; a reward was offered, but I think he never was arrested. Question. Was your guard who knew him taken before the grand jury? Answer. They were; and I think a reward was issued for his arrest, but nobody dared to arrest him, and he never has been arrested; he has a crowd of people who protect him and give him information whenever the authorities come near him; it is impossible for a sheriff to go and arrest him. Question. He will escape? Answer. He will get information so as to keep out of the way. I asked a man I knew if Lot was not well mounted; the gentleman was riding a very fine animal himself, and he said " He has a better horse than this mare is." I think the gentleman had one of the finest animals in Gadsden. Question. Is he a man of family? Answer. I think so. Question. When your men met him they asked him if he was out? Answer. On his keeping and evading the law. Question. That was his character; he was such a man that it was probable that he was in that condition? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Was he what you would term an outlaw? Answer. At present he is, but he has his friends who will protect him, give him means, and give him information. I should dislike very much indeed to be sent to arrest Luke Lot. Question. I should think so decidedly, from the description you have given of him. Answer. Because if I had only that one there to contend with it would be all right, but I would not know who in the neighborhood to speak to. Question. Who would assist you Answer. No, sir; no matter what the standing of the man was I would keep my mouth shut. Question. Was the fact of his residing in that county known to the authorities? Answer. I think he first went back clandestinely, but recently he has been a little bolder. Question. You say ho is a farmer? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Are his farming operations interfered with at all by this manner of life? Answer. I do not know, but I think he is now a poor man. Question. I should suppose that the steady labor required of a farmer would be interfered with by this manner of life. Answer. I think so. Most of the people in that vicinity have had their crops drowned out by freshets and heavy rains. Question. When Fleischman was killed was he robbed? Answer. I do not'know; there never was any doubt in my mind as to the reason of it. Question. Do you know of a young lady of the name of Miss MpClellan being killed there? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. State the circumstances. Answer. I will state them as I have heard them. Question. You have stated the others as you have heard them? Answer. Yes, sir; and as I believe they are. At the hotel, after tea, Mr. McClellan, a lawyer there, his daughter, and some other parties, were on the stoop; a man that is probably one of the most wealthy men in Jackson County was there also-Mr. Coker-who is represented as supporting Barnes and that class of men. His character is of that kind, even with parties who are democrats, and know him well. They speak of him in that way; they say that all is not false that is reported of him in supporting those men, that there is some truth in it. They say they have interfered with him a great deal; that the amount of taxation upon him for that purpose has reduced him a great deal; that he is not so wealthy as he was. Question. Because of supporting these men? Answer. Yes, sir; that is what I have heard. He was on the stoop with the others. I understood that they heard some parties on the street, and that they supposed there was a colored man there who was a constable, a man of the name of Calvin Rogers. McClelian said that he recognized his voice giving the command to fire. The impression is that they intended to kill Coker, but, by accident, Miss McClellan was killed and her father wounded. Question. Coker was not hurt? Answer. No, sir. Afterward the citizens turned out and would have Calvin Rogers. They did not get any warrant issued for him. The clerk of the court tried to get them to have a warrant, and to do things in a legal manner, but they refused.

Page  192 192 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN TIlE SOUTHERN STATES. Question. Who was the clerk? Answer. Mr. Dickinson, who was umurdered. He said he did all he could to get them to proceed in a legal manner, for he did not know at what moment it might be his turn. They would notdo any such thing. The most prominent citizens of Marianna pursued the same course. Question. The same course as Dickinson? Answer. No, sir; the same course of those who took the constable who was accused of murdering fMiss McClellan. They went in an unlawful way, as a mob or vigilance committee, and took him, and would not take out any warrant. There were two other black men suspected of being implicated in the murder of Miss McClellan, or of being friends of Rogers. They took them and ordered them to go with them and search for Calvin Rogers. The men refused to go, and they insisted upon their going. They said they w anted to get their arms. These people said to them, "No,. go as you are, you don't want any arms." They went out of Marianna in company with these men. After they got out a piece these two black men were ordered to go ahead, and they did so; and when they got off a piece fiom the other Iparty they were fired on; one was killed outright, and the other was wounded, but made his escape. There has never been any person arrested for any of these murders, or punished for any murders committed there. Question. What became of Calvin Rogers? Answer. He was afterward taken and killed; when they caught him they killed him. Question. What was his office? Answer. He was constable. Question. That is the only elective office in the county? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. He was elected by a vote of the people? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. He was the man whom Colonel McClellan heard giving the order to fire? Answer. He said he heard his voice. Question. When was this? Answer. In the dusk of the evening. Question. There was a number of negroes in a body who approached the hotel? Answer. I heard there were only two. The county is only across the river from me, and the affairs in that county have been such Question. Have you any knowledge, in the same way that you have obtained the rest of your knowledge, by information from others-I understand you are not youlrseli cognizant of the facts? Answer. No, sir. Question. Have you any knowledge of the arrest of young ladies in the town of Marianna by order of Major Purman or others connected with the Freedmen's Bureau, and of fastening them up in smoke-houses and places of that kind? Answer. I never heard of their arrest; I heard they were ordered to appear. They pulled the flowers or desecrated the graves of Union soldiers that were buried there. Some persons friendly to their memory had planted flowers on the graves of the Union soldiers. Some ladies, whose names I do not remember, on Memorial Day, had pulled up the plants or flowers on the graves of the Union soldiers and decorated the graves of confederate soldiers with them. I do not know whether it was Major Purman or Captain Hamilton who gave the order, but they were ordered to appear before those two gentlemen at their office. They came there, and I am. satisfied that they were never locked ujl When they came to the office and appeared before those gentlemen they were closely veiled. They were requested by the officers to raise their veils so that they might be recognized, and they complained of that a great deal. I never heard of their being put under arrest. Question. You never heard of young ladies in that town being locked up in a meathouse or smoke-house for the offense of singing songs of a southern character? Answer. No, sir; I never heard that, and I thought I had heard all the bad things that could be said of those two officers, but I never heard that. I have heard of menl being locked up who, in settling accounts with the freedmen, would not carry out their contracts according to the law, and they were put in a smoke-house, as there was no other place to put them in; I have heard that charge. Question. That was in cases concerning contracts? Answer. Yes, sir. I have heard, and I believe it to be true, that they arrested them and kept them under arrest, and compelled the enforcement of sonme contracts with the freedmen. Question. You spoke of the employ-s of a railroad company being men of a certain party-members of the democratic party. Who was the president'of that road? Answer. Mr. Houston. Question. Who is the president of the road now? Answer. General Littlefield. Question. He is a prominent member of the republican party t

Page  193 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 193 Alnswer. I take it he is.,Question. You spoke of a democratic club that Mr. Williams and other geLtlemen told you they belonged to? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. There is nothing secret in the membership of that club? Answer. I do not know about the secrecy of the membership; they told me that they belong to such a club. Question. They have spoken of it openly? Answer. Yes, sir; since this investigation began; but the objects of it are secret. Question. Have you not yourself seen companies come into the polls? Answer. People voting? Question. No; men coming to the polls as members of these clubs as democrats? Answer. No, sir. Question. You are not aware of that fact? Answer. No, sir. Question. When was the Lincoln Brotherhood formed? Answer. I do not know of my own knowledge, but I think it was formed in 1867 or 1868. Question. Is it still in existence? Answer. I think it was merged in the Union League. Question. Was it composed of black people solely? Answer. I think not. Question. It was composed of blacks and whites? Answer. Yes, sir; of republicans. Question. Was it an oath-bound association? Answer. I do not know. Question. You are not a member of it yourself? Answer. No, sir. Question. Do you know whether or not they were bound by an oath? Answzer. I do not know anything of the kind. I presume it was a secret association. Question. Do you know whether it extended throughout the State? Answer. I do not know, but I presume it did, and I think all through the Southern States, and I do not know but all through the Union. By Mr. LAXSING: Question. What has become of this man Barnes? Answer. He is now living near Marianna. He was shot in a drunken row with one of his fellows while card-playing. He was brought over to Marianna and taken the kindest care of by the best citizens there; the most eminent people in the place attended to him. Question. Do you mean the best citizens and most prominent citizens? Answer. I mean wealthy men, men of means and of high standing. Question. In that class of men are included those who sympathize with Barnes? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And with his conduct? Answer. It appears so, yes; they speak of Barnes as a very chivaJric, fine fellow. Question. Is he permanently injured by this wound? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. So that he is not as active as he was? Answer. No, sir; the ball passed above the knee, and now one leg is shorter than the other. He had the man so close to him that he could not shoot him directly, and he had to direct his fire at him as well as he could, and fire down diagonally through his thigh. It was Newton Williams that did it. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. The one who shot him? Answer. Yes, sir; and it would have been a mercy had they killed each other. By Mr. LANSING: Question. As I understand from your statement, your guard did not find him at this house where he had this liaison? Answer. He did not go there. Question. They never afterwards met him there? Answer. No, sir; he took good care not to go there afterward. Question. How far from where Barnes lived was this house? Answer. I do not know where he was living; he would come and go, and nobody would know where he went or what he did, unless it was his own immediate friends. Question. As you understand, he discontinued his visits to that house? Anlswer. After that, yes, sir. 13 G

Page  194 194 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN TIHE SOUTHERN STATES. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. I understand you to say that the only complaint of bad treatment toward the young ladies, as they were called, that you have heard of, was that when they came before the officers they were required to remove their veils? Answer. They were asked to raise their veils. Question. And that was regarded-. Answer. As a terrible insult offered to a southern lady by a Bureau officer. Question. Was that made a subject of accusation in the newspapers? Answer. I did not see it in the newspapers, but I heard it from people of both parties. There is a circumstance I now remember: At a meeting in Jackson County, in Marianna, just immediately previous to the last election, Major Purman, Mr. Hamilton, Mr. Gibbs, Mr. Tore, a justice of the peace in Tallahassee, were at the meeting. On their return, they stopped at my place, and told me about the proceedings at that meeting; while they were there, one of the engineer corps, who had been down to the Choctawhatchee, Lee Butler, called me out on the road, and said, "See here, those fellows are never going -o get out of Marianna. " I said, "Why not?" He said, " I know they are not; I would have told them, but I was not intimate enough with them to speak to them, and they might have thought I was sticking my oar in where I had no business to." I asked him how he knew this, and he said that he had heard in Marianna that they were determined to kill those two men; that they should never get out of that county alive. Said he, "I had to leave and get out of that, and before I had got a half a mile a man jumped out of a ditch and caught my horse by the head; I asked him what he meant, and he asked who I was; I told him it was none of his damned business; to let my horse go. A man in the brush close by the ditch said,' He is all right; let him go.' That showed that the roads were picketed." Butler is a very gallant, nice young fellow, I think a man of strict honor andt integrity. Question. You spoke of two negroes who, the-evening that Miss McClellan was shot, were taken out to hunt for Rogers. Answer. After the murder? Question. Yes; I understood you to say they were sent forward, and when they got on a little piece, they were shot, one killed and the other wounded. Ansrwer. Yes, sir. Question. Were those the negroes charged to have been with Rogers at the time of the shooting? Answer. Not with him at the time of the shooting, but with being intimate friends of his, sympathizing with him. Question. That was the charge against those men Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What had they against the people who were going out on a picnic Answer. I do not know what they had against them; as I heard it, it was represented that Rogers was one of the party. Question. One of the party going to the picnic? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And they shot a man and his little child and killed them both? Answer. Yes, sir; and I do not know how many were wounded. Question. There were others wounded? Answer. I do not remember how many; this other, being such a horrible thing; remained in my memory better than the other circumstance. Question. Has there been any attempt made to hunt out the offenders? Answer. Dickinson organized a party and followed some tracks, but they did not amount to anything. Question. Mr. Fleischman told you that, in his indignation, he said that if negroes were to be treated in that way, then for every black man killed there ought to be three white men killed? Answer. He said he said so. Question. And for that they were hostile to him? Answer. He said that he was sent for, and went to a certain house and found some gentlemen there who said he must leave the county; that he told them he could not go; that his interests were all there and he could not leave; that they said they would give him till a certain time-till 5 o'clock that evening. He did not go away, and they came down to his store and took him away. Question. Did he say who those gentlemen were? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Who were they? Answer. I do not remember their names now; I think I have them at home. Question. Was Coker one of them? Answer. No, sir, I think not; I think their names are given by Dickinson in a memorandum kept by him, that I got among his private papers. Question. How long previous to these transactions had the Freedmen's Bureau been there, and when was this occurrence of sending for those young ladies?

Page  195 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 195 Anscer. I am not familiar with the dates, but I think it was shortly after the war. I heard it was something that had taken place long ago that caused the hostility to Hamilton and Purman. Question. Mr. Hamilton had been in Congress? Answer. Yes, sir. After the murder of Dickinson, Judge Bush told parties who were there that it was no use to send people there to follow up this thing, for they would all be murdered, every one of them; that they must have their own people there; that that is what the people there said. Question. Was not Doctor Finlayson one of their own people? Ansiver. No, sir; they do not recognize a man of that kind as one of their own people. Question. Was he not a native of Florida? Answer. Well, we have here what are known as " scallawags, carpet-baggers, and niggers." Question. By " their own people," they mean democrats? Answier. Yes, sir; and when they nominated people in that county for the governor to choose from, every one of those they nominated were democrats, from whom he was obliged to select a county clerk and a sheriff. The last sheriff that was there left from intimidation; two clerks of the court have been murdered. Then the citizens came together, called a meeting, and selected a certain number of names, all democrats, from which the clerk should be selected, and a certain number of names, all democrats, from which the sheriff should be selected, and they said to the governor, " Appoint one of these, and we will be satisfied." He did appoint from those very men a clerk and a sheriff. Question. What is the relative proportion of republicans and democrats in that county? Answer. The last election would indicate that it was very close; but the fact is, that the republican party is largely in the majority. Question. How largely? Answer. I think that when Hamilton was elected, it was over two-thirds majority for the republicans. Question. Those gentlemen insist that the majority shall submit to the minority? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. That the minority shall have the offices and control affairs there? Answer. Yes, sir; they say they are the owners of the property, that they belong there, that they are the parties who pay the taxes, and that negroes, and scallawags, and carpet-baggers must not come there for office; that they are the owners of the soil, and they are the parties who are responsible. Question. What is the feeling of those people toward the United States Government, so far as you have had any opportunity of seeing it manifested? Answer. I think from all I know, and I have heard parties say so, that they would prefer a monarchy to the Government of the United States. From what I have heard, I think that if the people were allowed to vote and make a choice between the present administration and a monarchy, they would vote in favor of a monarchy. Question. What people do you mean? Answer. I mean the democratic party-the southern people here. Some of therm speak that very plainly. One man says he would sooner have a king anyhow; that he is not in favor of a republic; that he would sooner have the King of Dahomey-a oneman government. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. They prefer a monarchy to the State government that they have here? Answzer. No, sir; I am speaking of the United StatesGovernment. JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA, November 13, 1871. LEMUEL WILSON sworn and examined. By the CHAIRMAN: Qulestion. State your age, where you were born, where you now reside, and what official position you occupy at present, if any. Answier. I am fifty-five years old; I was born in North Carolina, and now reside in Florida. My family are in Alachua County, but I have been at Tallahassee for the last four months. I am at present receiver of public moneys in the land-offs at Tallahassee. Question. Under the Government of the United States? Answver. Yes, sir. Question. How long have you lived in Alachua County?

Page  196 196 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Answer. Over thirty years. Question. Have you any people in your county that are commonly spoken of as Ku-Klux? Anszwer. Not to my own personal knowledge. Question. Are there any there from information that you deem to be credible? Answer. No; none from any information that I have. Question. You have no information on the subject? Answer. No, sir, not as to the existence of an organization of that name, or any other, except political organizations. Qucstion. Is not the Ku-Klux understood to be a political organization? Answer. I do not know; in my opinion it is a lawless organization. Well, I suppose it is for political purposes; that I have understood; that is my impression-that it is for political purposes, to affect politics. Question. What is the feeling among your people there in reference to the Ku-Klux bill that passed Congress last spring? Answer. All that I have heard speak of it are very much opposed to it; that is, all outside of the republican party. Question. What objection have they to it? Answer. Well, they denounce it as being an oppression, and as subverting the principles of republican government. Question. In what do they allege the oppression consists? Answer. Well, I have heard considerable talk about the matter. They say it is a subversion of the principles of republican government, of the rights of the people, and a centralization of power in the hands of the General Government. Question. Do they intimate that they want to do anything forbidden by that law? Answer. Not that I am aware of. Question. Do they deny the existence of such organizations in the country as are aimed at by the bill? Answer. 0, yes, sir; I have never heard any one admit it. Question. They deny there is any such thing? Answer. That is, the whites generally deny it. Question. If that is so, the Ku-Klux bill would not do anybody any harm? AnswCr. No; I am not afraid of the Ku-Klux bill. Question. What is the feeling toward the colored people of the same persons who denounce the Ku-Klux bill? Answer. Well, there has been considerable opposition to the rights of the colored man, political rights more especially, and to some of the civil rights, if among those are included the right to sit upon juries and to testify in court; but that, to a considerable extent, is wearing off. Question. The feeling in that regard is not so bitter as it was? Answer. I think not. I hear gentlemen say now, who I do not think would have said so two years ago, that they think the negro ought to have civil and political rights; that he ought to vote; and I have heard some gentlemen say that they thought he ought to hold office. They base their opposition on the ground of ignorance. Question. There are a great many ignorant white people, are there not? Answer. Yes, there are. Question. Is the objection meant to be as sweeping as the ignorance? Answer. No; I never heard anything said about ignorance before the negro came to vote. Question. What is their feeling toward white republicans, if you have any such? Answer. I am known as a republican myself; I have never concealed it; I have.always acted with that party; I have been pretty open in the expression of my opinions. I have nothing to complain of in their treatment of me. But I know there has been considerable social ostracism of republicans; I'think it is getting less and less so. Question. I suppose your position is such that social ostracism would not amount to a great deal? Answer. I do not understand your question. Question. Well, you are a society to yourself; you say you have been there a great many years. Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You are not dependent upon these people for society? Answer. I think we are all dependent, more or less, upon each other for social intercourse; I always feel better when I can be agreeably met and treated in society. Question. How have the black people in that county been treated, in respect to their safety of person and property? Answier. Well, I am free to say that the lives of colored persons have not been sufficien tly regarded; there has been too much of a wanton disregard of human life in connection with the negro. Question. Have there been cases of homicide there?

Page  197 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 197 Answler. Yes, sir; a great many cases. Question. Any cases of whipping and scourging? Answer. I know nothing of the whipping; I have only heard of the homicides cornmitted there. Question. Have you had anybody brought to trial and punished for violating their rights? Answer. Yes, sir; there have been some. Question. Have there been any white men convicted and punished for these homicides? Answer. No, sir, none that I know of convicted; there have been some tried. Question. Do you think you could convict and punish a white man in your county to the extent of the law for killing a colored Iman? Answer. I will tell you my opinion, that I have expressed everywhere among our people; it is, that I believe that a negro's rights-his rights of property-would be secure before a jury; that a jury of our country would grant him perfect rights in a court of law in a matter of property; but in criminal matters I do not think they would. I think it is a difficult matter to convict a white man of murder for killing a negro; I am sorry to say it, but that is my opinion. Question. On the other hand, is there great facility in convicting a negro for any alleged offense against a white man? Answer. Yes, sir; I think he would have to be entirely innocent to be cleared. Question. He would have to make his innocence manifest beyond contradiction? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Do you know anything about the killing of a man by the name of Lucy? Answer. Only from what has been written to me. Question. Where was he killed, and when? Answer. At Newmansville; I should suppose about a month ago. Question. What was his occupation? Answer. He was a merchant. Question. What is assigned or understood to be the cause of his being killed? Answer. I have not been there; I got a letter from his wife, who is a niece of mine, merely stating the fact. She did not assign any cause. I knew the man who was alleged to have killed him. Question. Who and what is he? Answer. He was a young man who had grown up in the neighborhood; his name was Moody-a very wanton, murderous sort of a man. I think he was a murderer at heart, anyhow; he was regarded as a dangerous man. Question. Had he had any difficulty with Lucy? Answer. No, sir, I have not learned of any. Lucy's wife wrote me that she thought he sought a pretext to kill him. There was no sufficient cause for his conduct in the killing; a pretext seems to have been sought.for killing him. Question. You must have some idea of what he wanted to kill him for. Answer. I will tell you the position I think he occupied in the community: Lucy was a Jew, and I think he was in great favor with the negroes. He got a great deal of trade from the negroes, and, perhaps, was rather popular with the negroes. I have heard it said that Lucy was a republican, but I have never heard him say anything about it; if he was a republican, he was not very active. I do not know that he took any interest in the elections. Question. He was a friend of the colored people, and had their confidence and trade very largely? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Has the nman who slew him been arrested? Answer. I have not heard of his arrest. Question. Have any movements been made for punishing the crime? Answer. Not that I am aware of. I have not been in the county since the murder was committed. The man who slew him was tried for his life before that for another murder. which was another wanton act. Question. Whom did he kill before? Answer. He had killed a negro, or was charged with it; I have no doubt he was among a party of four who did it. I think the grand jury had found a bill against some six or more, but there were four who were tried at Gainesville, and this man Moody among the number. He had the reputation of being a dangerous man in the community. Question. How long previous had the killing of the negro taken place? Answer. Two years before, I suppose. Question. And he was acquitted? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Were all the parties who were tried acquitted? Answer. Yes, sir; and I take it upon me to say that I do not believe they should have been acquitted; they may not have been found guilty of murder, but I do not

Page  198 198 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. think if it had been a white boy who was killed under the same circumstances, they would have gone free as they did. It was an outrage; there is no doubt about it. Question. What were the circumstances of the killing? Answer. A negro in Hernando County, whose name I do not remember, it seems killed another negro, and fled from Hernando County into some other county, and was there arrested by some four men, whether in pursuance of any warrant or not I never heard. He was being carried back to Hernando County; the report that I heard was, that he shot and killed two of his captors who had him in charge. Night overtook them, and they encamped somewhere; while encamped at night it was alleged he had shot two of the white men; I have learned that one of the parties died. It seems that he made his escape from his captors, and then the sheriff of Hernando County got after him, and tracked him toward Alachua County. When he got to a place called Archer, a station on the Florida Railroad, they there learned that he had stopped there, and was going to a half-brother of his by the name of Harry Harold, near Newnansville. He was a mulatto man, formerly a slave, an excellent man then, and I regard him a good man now. He was foreman for his master on a large plantation. The sheriff and a posse of some five or six men were in pursuit of him. They learned at, Archer that he had stopped there, and said he was going to Newnansville, to his halfbrother's. They followed on after the man, but before they got to Newnansville they stopped at the house of a planter there and made known their business. He sent into town for a man who had been acting as deputy sheriff, and who was pretty generally acquainted throughout the country, to come out there and see him. lie went there, and was informed of what these men were after; that the sheriff of Hernando County was in pursuit of a murderer, and that he had heard he was going to his half-brother's, and he was asked to direct him. I think he was not deputy sheriff at the time; I think his authority had been withdrawn. He consented to go with them, and the party started through Newnansville, where they got another little posse of five or six men, making altogether something like twelve or fourteen men. They went to Harry Harold's house, who lives some six or seven miles beyond Newnansville, and surrounded the house in the night-time, with the expectation that the murderer was there. It seems, however, that they had got ahead of the murderer; he was not there. They surrounded the house and remained there awhile, until the dog discovered them and gave some alarm, and then it was proposed that they should all rush in, surround the house, and prevent the murderer's escape. They did so, as the witnesses testified, firing off pistols and guns, and creating a very great alarm; the negro man Harry was very much alarmed, as was also his family. They were in great distress, and he conmmenced to cry. He recognized the voice of one of the men, and said to him, "Massa, for God's sake, what have we done? Are you going to kill us all?" According to my recollection of his testimony, the men said, "Come out here, God damn you; we intend to kill the last one of you, one by one; come out." The wife of the man commenced to pray, and I think the witnesses testified that they said, " 0, damn you, it is too late to pray now; you should have prayed before." In the excitement, a son of the man, who it seems was sleeping in the adjoining shed-room, rushed from the house, doubtless to save his life, supposing they were all to be killed. As he did so, he was shot down within some fifteen or twenty yards of the house. Question. And killed? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. How old was he? Answer. I am told he was about fifteen years old. Question. It was for that killing that they were tried? Answer. Yes, sir. One of them went up to the body, and said, " Now, boys, you have played hell; you have killed one of old Harry's boys." I think they thought it was the murderer who had fled. Question. Did they do anything more? Answer. I do not know that there was anything else they did. I think the negro stated that they went off without affording him any assistance, and I think he stated that he and his wife were not permitted to go to his son until after they left. They either testified to that or told me that, I have forgotten which. Question. Did you know Mr. Dickinson, who was killed in Jackson County? Answer. Yes, sir. Permit me to state a little further in regard to that other matter. I thought that a very great outrage. I disagreed with the jury. I believe thereis now a law of the country in regard to murder of the first, second, and third degrees, and perhaps manslaughter in the first, second, and third degrees. I was surprised that the jury did not find the party guilty of anything. I regarded it as a very great outrage. I felt as though, if it had been my son, I should have wanted to kill the last man who had any connection with it. Questions. You knew Mr. Dickinson? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What sort of a man was he? Answer. I regarded him as a very excellent nan. I was very much pleased with him.

Page  199 FLORIDA —SUB-COMMITTEE. 199 I had met him only once; that is to say, I was with him at Tallahassee at one time for several days, perhaps a week or two, during the first organization of the State government. Question. What had they against him, that they should want to kill him? Answer. I could not learn that they had anything against him; that is to say, anything personal. He was a gentleman of very mild manners, and I was very much pleased with the man myself. At the time I was assessor of internal revenue here. and I had appointed what was known as a southern loyalist in that section of the country as one of my assistants. I had been afterward informed that he was not likely to prove competent to discharge the duties, and, meeting Captain Dickinson at Tallahassee, I mentioned the fact to him that I heard he was out of employment. Ho had been engaged in the lumber business after the surrender, and had not succeeded in it. I asked him what he was doing. He said, " Nothing." I then remarked to himn that I had made an appointment, but I did not know whether the party was competent; that it had been suggested to me that he was not; and I asked him if he wouhl accept the appointment of assistant assessor in case the other gentleman should prove incompetent. He said he would very gladly accept the appointment, as he had nothing to do, but he did not want any person displaced for him, especially a southern Unionist. His whole demeanor made the impression upon my mind that he was a very fair, excellently disposed man. He did not want any person displaced to make way for him-would not accept the office on such terms. I told him I did not propose to remove this man unless he should prove incompetent. He said if that was so, and 1 should decide to remove him, he would be glad to have the situation. The impression he made upon me at the time was that he was a very excellent, clever man; that was his reputation at his death. Question. After he was dead, did you hear anybody allege anything against him, except his political opinions, that should have caused his death? Answer. No, sir; he was well spoken of. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. What is the name of this young man who murdered your neice's husband? Answer. Joe Moody. Question. He was a violent and desperate sort of a character? Answer. Yes, sir; he was a lawless sort of a man any way. Question. Was he a drinking man? Answer. Not what you would call an habitual drunkard; but he drank sometimes. Question. Had he had any previous collision at all with Mr. Lucy? Answer. Not that I am aware of. I have laot been living there for some considerable time. Question. You knew nothing of their personal relations? Answer. No, sir. Question. What time of the day did he kill him? Answer. I do not know; it was in the day-time, I presume. Question. Do you know anything about the circumstances, whether it was a personal encounter, or what? Answer. What isQuestion. Anger between the two men? Answer. His wife wrote me that this man Moody had gone in and asked for his account; that the clerk presented the account, and Moody said, " I didn't ask your clerk for my account; I asked you for it, and I want you to read it out aloud." Thereupon Mr. Lucy drew a little nearer to him, and read over his account to him. Among the items was a paper of tacks, perhaps, and a few crackers. He disputed the account and swore about it, and said he did not get those things, or something to that effect. Mr. Lucy replied to him that he must have got them, that they were charged to him, not in his hand-writing, but in, the hand-writing of the clerk. Thereupon Moody drew his pistol and fired at him; and my recollection is, that on the first fire he missed him. Lucy then ran out of the house, and this man Moody pursued him, and as Lucy ran he turned to look behind him, and the man shot him in the eye with a pistol. Question. Has he been arrested? Answer. I think not. Question. WAhat has become of him? Answer. I do not know. Question. Do you know whether he has left the county or State? Answer. I do not know; I do not know anything of him at all since then. Question. You do not know whether he is in jail or not? Answer. I am satisfied he is not in jail, and has not been arrested, for I should have heard of it. Question. You do not know whether he is there or not? lAnsuer. I (do not. Question. Who is the judge of that county? ZD -u- v —~

Page  200 200 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Answer. William Edwards? Question. A good man? Answer. A very good man. Question. Appointed by Governor Reed? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Who is the prosecuting attorney? Answer. General Birney. Question. A good man? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Is he an appointee of Governor Reed? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Has any court met since this murder? Answer. No, sir. Question. Who are the justices of the peace of that county? Answer. Well, now, you are a little too hard for me; I do not know. Question. Are they black men or white men? Answer. I think there were two white men at Gainesville, but I am not prepared to answer the question as to the justices of the peace. Question. They are the appointees of the governor, all of them? Answer. I think the governor appoints all the justices of the peace. Question. You say Moody was a violent, desperate sort of a character; reckless of human life? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And had been tried previously? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And that case arose out of a black man slaying another black man and escaping, and a posse in aid of the sheriff were pursuing him, and they came up, as they supposed, to a house where he was? Answer. They went to his brother's house, where they supposed he was. Question. This was in the night-time? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And some one, escaping in the dark, was killed by the posse? Answer. Yes, sir; it was a boy who was killed. Question. They supposed it was a man they were after? Answer. I do not know what they supposed; I think it was a wanton disregard of life. Question. Was it alleged in their behalf before the jury that they thought the person who was escaping at night was the person they were after? Answer. Yes, sir; that was the evidence. Question. For that, this man Moody and others were tried and acquitted? Answer. Yes, sir. Questioln. You think they should have had some punishment? Answer. I thought it was a wanton disregard of life that would not have been exhibited in regard to a white man. Question. The sheriff was there at the time with a posse? Answer. Yes, sir, the sheriff of Hernando County and a man who had been acting as deputy sheriff in the other county. Qulestion. The sheriffs are appointed by the governor? Answer. Yes, sir; but the posses are not. Question. The posses were persons whom the sheriff chose? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. The sheriff selects his own posse? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You say that Lucy was a man who took little or no part in politics? Answer. Not that I am aware of; I never was much about Newnansville. Question. Do you know what his politics were? Answer. I heard that he was a republican, and that he voted the republican ticket if he voted at all. Question. And took little part in politics? Answer. No, sir; I think not. Question. How old is Moody? Answer. I should suppose somewhere about twenty-five or twenty-six. Question. Rather a dissolute sort of person? Answer. No; he was not a drinking man-a man in the habit of getting drunk; sometimes he would perhaps get under the influence of liquor; I have no doubt he did. Question. He was recognized as a violent, dangerous man in the community? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Were you present at the trial of the four men for killing the negro? Answer. Yes, sir; part of the time. Question. How was that jury composed?

Page  201 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 201 Answer. I think there were nine white men and three colored men. Question. The court was presided over by the same judge you have mentioned? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. He conducted the trial? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Your juries in that county are mixed black and white? Answer. Frequently they are mixed. Question. What is the proportion of the two colors in that county of Alachua? Answer. I do not know; I think it is supposed there is a majority of negroes in the county. Question. More negroes than whites? Answer. I think so. Question. Who represents it in the legislature? Answer. There is a gentleman by the name of Dennis who represents that county and the adjoining county in the senate, and Mr. Black and some one else in the house. Question. Are they white or black men? Answer. I think they are black, but I am not certain. Question. You voted for them? Answer. I do not think I voted at the county election; I was not entitled to vote at the county election; I had not been there long enough. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. Do you know anything about the attack made on General Birney some time since? Answer. I was not present at the attack, but I was on the grand jury, and heard the testimony in the case. Question. What was the character of that attack? Answer. It was for political reasons; it was in consequence of a political speech he had made. Question. By whom was he attacked? Answer. A man by the name of Denton was the leader of the party; I think there were only two who were prominent in the matter, and perhaps there were some three or four others behind; it was so thought; in fact I understood there were two or three others, but who they were I do not remember. I think one of the men who were near by and who General Birney supposed to be one of the party has since died. There were only two prominent actors in the matter. Question. Where was the attack made? Answer. In Gainsville. Question. Under what circumstances? Answer. I know General Birney very well and think very well of him. He is a republican, and had made a speech to the negroes and whoever would come and hear him. I heard a great many persons denouncing him. He subsequently made a speech out in the country at some place, I do not remember the name; it was in the neighborhood of the Dentons. It seems the Dentons heard his speech, and subsequently, after the election was over, perhaps a month after, they were in Gainsville. General Birney came in and went into the store of Foster & Colclough, who were grocers there. Denton and some of his friends were in the store when General Birnev went in. He then left, and then went to a drug-store to make some few purchases there, and was immediately followed by this man Denton, a man by the name of Rain, and some others behind him. Who they were I do not know, and General Birney did not know. Denton, who was the leader of the party, approached him in a very insulting manner, and asked him what his name was. Birney declined to answer the question. I am giving what General Birney testified to before the jury, according to my recollection. Denton said, " I know your name, God damn you; your name is Birney, and if it were not for you," or something to that effect, " the negroes would vote the democratic ticket." He went on and denounced him in bitter language; said he could whip him, and perhaps challenged him to fight, which of course General Birney declined. He thereupon seized him by the beard, or made an attempt to do so, and the gentleman who kept the drug-store, Doctor McMillan, then interfered and put the young man out of the store. General Birney having finished his business in the store, went somewhere and got some arms, mounted his horse, and rode leisurely home. Question. Do you know whether he was pursued? Answer. I understood him to say that he was informed'hat he was pursued. Question. You spoke of the Dentons; do you know where they came from? Answer. From Georgia, originally; they have been here some time. Question. Do you know where they came from to Georgia t Answer. No, sir; I do not know anything about that; I knew their father very weil. Question. What was his first name? Answer. I do not remember what his first name was. Question. What is the character of the men?

Page  202 202 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Answer. Well, they are rather desperate young men; quite so since the surrender. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. Who is General Birney; where did he come from? Answer. I think he is from Illinois. Question. When did he come here? Answer. He came here since the surrender; that is, he came here in 1869, I guess; bought a plantation out there, a good large plantation in Alachua County, moved his family there, and has been living there ever since, and is living there now. Question. What office does he hold? Answer. He is now solicitor of the circuit. Question. Prosecuting officer? Ansswer. Yes, sir. Question. Were you the foreman of the grand jury in that county? Answer. No, sir; of the United States grand jury. Question. These parties were indicted in the United States court? Ans'wer. Yes, sir. Question. Were they indicted? Answer. To which parties do you allude? Question. The parties in the Birney case. Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Who were indicted? Answer. An indictment was found against Henry Denton and another man of the name of Fountain; I think they were the two men whose names General Birney testified to; he did not know the names of all of them. Question. What was the character of the offense for which they were indicted? Answer. For a violation of the civil-rights bill, I suppose; for violation of his right to speak and utter his opinion, I presume; I do not know exactly; it was under the enforcement act, which guarantees to every man a right to express his opinion freely. It was for an expression of opinion at a political meeting that he was attacked. Question. He had made a speech before that time? Answver. Yes, sir; and it was in consequence of that speech that he was thus assaulted. Question. They found him in a store, and committed the assault upon him you have described? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And for that they have been indicted in the United States court, for some violation of some act of Congress? Answer. Yes, sir; Denton and Fountain have been. By the CHAIRMAN; Question. It was nothing personal between them? Answer. No, sir. Question. There was no acquaintance between them? Answer. No, sir; it was for his political speech and nothing else. JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA, NXovember 13, 1871. T. T. LONG sworn and examined. The CHAIRMAN. This witness having been called at your instance, Mr. Bayard, you will commence his examination. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. Will you be kind enough to state your present residence, and your official position and occupation? Answer. I cannot exactly state my residence; since my sickness, and the loss of my children, my family have gone to Augustine. I am judge of this judicial circuit, the fourth circuit. Question. What counties are embraced in your circuit? Answer. Baker, Bradford, Clay, Saint Johns, Nassau, and Duval. Quiestion. How long have you been the judge of this circuit? Answer. I was appointed during the vacation last year, I.think; I do not know what month; I was confirmed last winter. Question. Prior to that time had you been judge of another circuit? Answer. Yes, sir; I had been judge of the third judicial circuit; prior to that time [ had been judge of the Suwannee circuit, appointed in 1860 or 1861. Question. What was the circuit? Answer. The third judicial circuit, Taylor, La Fayette, Madison, Suwannee, Hamil

Page  203 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 203 ton, and Columbia Counties. Previous to that I had the old Suwannee circuit, when there were only five circuits in the State. Question. Have you acted with the republican party in regard to the reconstruction of the Southern States? Answer. I have, and still continue to act as a reconstructionist; I am not opposed to the reconstruction laws. Question. And you have acted with that party? Answer. I was pardoned by Congress, and have acted with the reconstructionists. Question. Your disabilities were removed by act of Congress? Answer. Yes, sir; upon the recommendation of the military. General Sprague, and I think probably General Grant, had something to do with it; I have that from information. Question. This committee has been appointed under a resolution of Congress, instructing them to inquire into the condition of the State of Florida, and other States, especially as affecting the safety of person and property under her laws within her boundaries. We desire to learn from you, as a man high in position in your community, the true condition of affairs here. Therefore, without any specific questions, will you be kind enough to state, in your own way, what you know upon the subject? Answer. I have never seen any trouble with those men who come here and behave themselves; I respect a northern man as well as a southern man; if a bad man comes here he is as unsafe as he would be North. I will state further that there are bad men in our country, as I suppose there are in every other country, who band together, two or three at a time, and perform certain bad deeds. Two or three bad men will get together, from malice, revenge, or hatred, and to carry out a certain project will do a great many bad deeds. Question. Is the sentiment of your community generally of a peaceable and orderly character as a rule? Answer. So far as the majority are concerned; there are a few bad men in each county, and in every county I have been in; but so far as the majority of the citizens are concerned, I know of nothing to the contrary. Question. In the courts of justice, over which you have presided in the different parts of the State, do you believe that at the present time there is reasonable security for persons and property to those who go before them for redress? Answer. Yes, sir; and I will say further that if I wanted to convict a man I would rather take a colored jury than anybody else, because they seem to be more anxious to convict. Question. Your juries areAnswew. Mixed juries. I have had sometimes two-thirds of one or the other color, and sometimes half and half. There has been no trouble in regard to the juries, and I see no necessity for any, for they seem to behave themselves very well. Question. It seems to be a question whether colored men, or white men whose opinions lead them to act with the republican party, could obtain proper redress and justice before your courts. I wish you to answer on that subject whether you consider there is a discrimination against them in your courts, and by your people, and by your juries? Answer. Since reconstruction I have been judge of twelve counties, and I have seen no cause to complain of that; in fact if there has ever been any discrimination I have never seen it. Question. Suppose a colored man should have wages or aught else due him withheld by his employer; would your courts and juries afford him an efficient remedy to obtain justice? Ansswer. I have never known to the contrary. Question. Suppose he should be assaulted and injured, and should bring a criminal action for the injury, and a civil action for the damages done him, is there reasonable ground for him to obtain justice? Answier. Just as much as there would be for a white man. Question. Is there, then, to your knowledge, any discrimination in your courts of justice against colored people, or against men who are of republican opinions? Answ1er. That is rather an unpleasant question, because I cannlt hold the office of judge and make any discrimination in my courts. Question. I am speaking of the current of justice, not of your own individual action. Answer. I have never seen it. Question. There have been witnesses here who have alleged that iuch is the case; I want to know your opinion. Answer. Those men are certainly misinformed, or have acted upon very strange and foolish prejudices, for I certainly have never shown any in my position. Question. There have been various persons before us from your community; you said that Madison County was at one time within your jurisdiction? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Did a man of the name of B. F. Tidwell live there?

Page  204 204 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Answer. Yes, sir; I have known him since a boy. Question. What position does he occupy now? Answer. I think he has been appointed county judge since I left the circuit. Question. What has been his occupation within the last six years in Florida at different times? Answer. He has been a justice of the peace, a little trader around, and he used to deal faro. Question. Do you mean that he kept a faro-bank? lAnswer. Yes, sir; I have seen him at that. Question. Was he a professional gambler? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And has since been made a judge of the county court? Answer. I have been informed so. Question. Have you seen him occupied in that business, and do you know that he was a professional gambler and dealt faro? Answer. I have seen him deal it many a time. I ought to say that I have been in his back room very frequently when he did it. Question. How long ago was that? Answer. Just before the war, and I think probably during the war. Question. There was a man here of the name of Frank Myers, of Columbia County; do you know him? Answer. Very well; I have known him for years. Question. What was he? Answer. I think he was a farmer and trader generally; he has been so many things that I could hardly keep up with the man. HIe was first a democrat, and then a republican, and then on the day of election he made a speech and sold Johnson out, and then he turned around and got up the Courier for a while; I saw his name advertised as an agent of the Courier, and he asked me to subscribe for it. I do not know his status now. Question. You have been well acquainted with his career in the community? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And have generally known what he was? Answer. Very well. Question. In the county where he is known what is his reputation for veracity and reliability of statement? Answer. That is a hard question to answer, from the simple fact that some of his friends may think well of him, and others may not. For myself, I do not have much regard for his veracity. Question. What is his general reputation for veracity? Answer. It is very bad in anything. Question. From his reputation in the community for truth and veracity, would you believe him on oath? Answer. I would not if he was the slightest interested; I regret to have that to say about any man. Question. You consider him an unreliable man in his statements? Answer. I consider any man who acts as he does very unreliable. He acted toward Mr. Johnson in such a way as to make me consider him very unreliable. I think if Mr. Johnson were here he would make the same statement-the senator from the county there. Question. Have you had many cases of homicide in your district? Answer. I have in both districts; a great many more in the other than in this. Question. It has been stated by some witnesses here that the persons who committed homicides in this city, and in this county and adjacent counties, were generally Imenlbers of the democratic party, so called, and that those who were the victims of those acts were men of the opposite party. Now, I would like to ask your contribution of testimony on that subject, as you have been a judge before whom many of these criminals have been tried. Answer. I think I can state fairly that I have never had perhaps but one case before me in my life, and'that was the case of Goodbread, where politics entered into the killing. We have a great many cases of killing. I think whisky has more to do with them than anything else. We have a great many bad white men and colored men. Colored men kill each other; and I had one hung in Madison. I cannot say, from the evidence before me on the trial of those cases, that there ever was but one that I considered a political matter. Question. What case was that? Answer. The case of Goodbread. Question. Where was that? Answer. In Columbia County. Question. How long ago? Answer. A great many years ago. He was a desperado and refugee froa Georgia. A

Page  205 FLORIDA —SUB-COMMITTEE. 205 man from Columbia County was killed the other day in South Florida, who was a desperado. le killed a white man there; they were both desperadoes. One of them has been killed, and I think it would have been a good thing if both had been killed. I would have been glad to have seen a colored man kill either of them. They were men of bad character, and boasted that they were white. There may have been many other cases, but I cannot speak of them; this is the only case I know of. Question. You say that the killings have not had any political significance. In looking over the facts in this very county where we are, can you remember the names of cases here? Answer. A colored man named Dickson killed a police officer. He was tried twice and convicted, but owing t t the wrong rulings of an ignorant presiding judge, he had a new trial granted. Question. What were the politics of those men? Answer. I do not know the politics of either of them. A white man killed another white man down here, both democrats, and both are now dead. Question. Do you remember the case of Henry Mill? Answer. Whom did he kill? Question. Another negro at the - House. Answer. Yes, sir; that was a long while ago. Question. Do you remember a man of the name of McGwin, a negro? Answer. Yes, sir; he killed another colored man. Question. Do you remember a man of the name of Jenkins, who killed Winter? Answer. That case happened just beyond my house. Two colored men got into a fight about something or another; both were republicans, I suppose. Question. Do you remember a man of the name of Burgess, who killed a white man? Answer. That is the case I spoke of. Burgess is since dead, and both are now dead; and Scott was the other one, and he has been hung. Question. Has there been any killing by United States soldiers in your town? Answer. That was before I came here. I only wish to speak of matters that came within my own knowledge. Question. Then do you find that men of the same political party will kill each other? Answer. Of course. Question. It is the low and vicious and brutal who will do it anywhere? Answer. Yes, sir; there is no difference here from any other place. Question. Is there any distinction between Flcrida and other places in regard to murders? Answer. I have never known it. Question. As a judge presiding over the trial of the most of these cases, you can speak of it'? Answer. I have only spoken according to the testimony before me. I think the case of Goodbread was the only case of the kind. Question. What is the character of crimes generally tried before your court? Answer. My court is limited now to felonies principally-stealing, larcenies, arsons, and assault with intent to murder; more larcenies than anything else. Question. Who generally commit those crimes; what class? Answer. You may safely say that seven out of ten are committed by the colored people in my circuit; I do not know about the other circuits. Question. There has been a great deal told us here in regard to Jackson County; have you any knowledge of that locality? Answer. I was raised there; my brother resides there now. Question. In that way have you frequent intercourse with the people of Jackson? Answer. Tolerably so. Question. What do you understand to be the condition of that county? Answer. I really do not wish to express my opinion, unless the committee desire it, because it is unpleasant for me to express an opinion which I have upon the say-so of the governor of the State. Question. It is precisely that we desire to obtain, not from any personal reason, but opinions from all sources worthy of belief, from all persons having means of information. Anscver. If the committee desire to hear anything coming from him I will give it. Question. I will say so. Answer. The governor said that if it had not been for Mr. Hanilton and Mr. Purman the condition of society there would not be as it is now. We all know that colored men are prejudiced and ignorant, but generally'willing to do right. They are led astray by bad and wicked men, and I think that that has been the case in Jackson County. Question. Has there been ill-feeling brought about between colored people and wnhite people by the persons of whom you speak? Answer. I have no doubt about that fact; I know it to be the fact in a number of the counties of the State I have been in.

Page  206 206 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Question. You think that has been the course of the persons of whom you spoke in regard to the colored people? Answer. I will say generally; but I cannot say as to a number of them, because we have some very good northern men. Question. I am speaking of the individuals you have named. Answer. Several have done it, I have no doubt. Question. I mean have done it in that county? Answer. I have no doubt they have done so. Question. State what has been the course of those men in regard to colored people and white. Answer. If I am to take the remarks of one of the senators in the last senate, he said that the southern men used to own them and work them, and now they owned them and voted them. Question. Who said that? Answer. Mr. Purman; he told me so in the State senate in Tallahassee. Question. Has the course of Mr. Purman, and of men who have entered politics on the basis he has here in this State, been such as to exasperate the black people against the white, and vice versa? Answcer. I do not know that it has exasperated the whites against the blacks; but he certainly has exasperated the blacks against the southern men, and I think very foolishly so, because I think it is a destruction of the party. Question. Have there been collisions between the races, brought about by counsels of such men as Mr. Purman? Answer. I have not the slighest doubt about it. Question. There has been a case very much commented upon by witnesses, repeated by almost all of them, the murder of Mr. Dickinson, the clerk of the court. Answer. I knew him very well. Question. The case occurred out there in Jackson County. State what your understanding of that act was, and your belief as to who committed the crime. Answer. I was not there, and I can only state such information as I have received if I am allowed to give that information, I will do so. Question. I will state to you that this committee has taken the very widest range in obtaining information; they have taken testimony, nine-tenths of which has been hearsay, what they term reliable information, and such you are at liberty to state. Answcer. From information through my friends and relatives there, I knew Mr. Dickinson, and regretted his death very much, for I thought very highly of him. I wrote to Jackson County to ascertain the facts in regard to his death, as near as I could. I am satisfied that a man by the name of Bryant killed him. Question. Who is he? Answer. A colored nman. I became the more satisfied of this fact afterward from this: A colored man at work on the railroad came to me and told me that Homer Bryant was in town, and wanted to know if I desired to see him. I said I would have him imprisoned if I saw him, because I thought he murdered Mr. Dickinson. I liked Mr. Dickinson; he was a very good man. Question. What had Bryant against him? Answer. I have understood that there was some connection with some family matters, with some colored woman that he kept; I do not know anything about that. Questton. State what you have heard upon reliable information. Answer. I have heard that was the reason. Question. I want you to give the fullest information you have upon this subject. I will state this to you: that the death of Mr. Dickinson has been laid repeatedly upon the white population of that county; it has been charged before this committee that there was a conspiracy among the white people of that county to take'his life and the lives of others; therefore, I want to get from you your judgment and your information upon the subject, whether it shall go in that direction or in the contrary direction. Answer. I only speak from what I have heard. I was acting with the republican party at the time. I felt deeply for Mr. Dickinson. I wrote to my friends there. It is true that most of my friends there were not political friends of Mr. Dickinson, but they were my relatives. I have heard no one there ascribe his death to any such motives. Question. To a conspiracy against him on the part of the white people? Answer. No, sir; on the contrary, I have heard a number of white gentlemen there express in high terms their regard for Dickinson, and I cannot believe such a thing existed. Question. Do you mean men opposed to him in political views? Answer. Yes, sir; in fact, Mr. Dickinson applied to me to admit him to the bar. I told him if he would come over to my circuit, and he stood an examination, I would take great pleasure in admitting him. I know many gentlemen spoke to me in the aighest terms of Mr. Dickinson.

Page  207 FLORIDA —SUB-COMMITTEE. 207 Question. I understand you to say that a man of the name of Bryant-what was his full name? Answex. Homer Bryant. Question. Was he a colored man? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. He fled from that county? Answer. He came down here, and I said I would have him arrested if I saw him. A colored man connected with the railroad asked me if I wanted to see Homer Bryant, and I said I would nave him arrested if I saw him. Question. Did you tell him for what you would have him arrested? Answer. I did not. Question. For what would you have had him arrested? Answer. For the killing of Mr. Dickinson; I would have turned him over to the authorities tlere. If he was innocent he could be cleared. Question. Was there anything in the condition of Jackson County to prevent a thorough investigation as to the cause of Dickinson's death? Answer. If so, I am not aware of it. Question. Who is the prosecuting attorney there? Answer. Mr. Milton was at the time. Question. An appointee of Governor Reed? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Is he a man of fair ability? Answer. Of very fair ability. Question. A man of the same political party with Mr. Dickinson? Answer. I think he had not much to do with politics; I think he took the position for his support. Question. Would he be a faithful administrator of the law? Answer. If not, I am not aware of it. Question. Who is the judge in that circuit? Answer. Judge Plantz; I think he was formerly United States district attorney at Key West. Question. What was the result of the investigation; were any proceedings held in regard to the murder of Dickinson? Answer. I know they had an investigation, but I do not now recollect the result of it; if 1 heard it, it has slipped my memory, whether anybody was held or not. Question. There was a man named Calvin Rogers, a colored man, who was killed in Jackson County. Will you state what you know of that case? Answer. He was the man that killed Miss McClellan, I think. Question. Who was Miss McClellan? Ansier. The daughter of Colonel McClellan; Colonel McClellan and Miss McClellan and a man of the name of Coker were sitting in the piazza of the hotel one evening, and Calvin Rogers rode up and shot Miss McClellan and wounded Colonel McClellan in the arm. The people were exasperated and caught him in a house; he attempted to run away, and I understood they fired at him and killed him. Question. There has been a statement here that a great deal of exasperation existed in the community, and that a day or two before that time some men had fired upon a colored picnic, and I think killed some persons and wounded some people who were peaceably enjoying themselves. Answer. I heard that there was a picnic going to Chipola River, and that they were fired into and probably a minister or some one shot. It was simply an event that I heard of at the time. Question. Was the killing of Miss McClellan in any way retaliatory for that act, that you know of? Answer. If so, I never heard of it. Question. The killing of Rogers was because he was supposed to be her murderer? Answer. I do not know that that has ever been denied even by Rogers. Question. I would like to know, if you can give us the information, what has gradually caused that feeling of exasperation there until the two races seem to be entirely separate in their sentiments. The colored men from that county have been here, and declared that they are unsafe in their homes; every one examined before this committee from that county has been a member of the republican party, and apparently an ardent republican; Major Purman among the rest. What has been done to create this feeling in that community? Answer. I have answered that question. It is well known throughout the State, both to republicans and democrats; it is no political question of that sort as to who and what have caused it. It is caused by men who have come here for the purpose of office and position, who have excited the colored race with a view to getting places; I do not think there is any dispute at all upon that point. Question. Have they arrayed the colored race against the white people?

Page  208 208 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Answer. They have had to do it in order to be successful, not against the white people, but against the southern people. Question. The southern people are the bulk of your white population here? Answer. Yes, sir; I suppose a majority, and they are so far as voting is conczrned. Question. Do I understand that you attribute the bad condition of feeling and lawlessness in your community to the causes that you have mentioned; that is to say, to the ambition of men lately coming into your State to provide themselves with offices, and their efforts to use the colored race as stepping-stones to obtain them? Answer. That is just the whole truth of the whole thing, when you come to thin it out. Question. I understand you also to say that you consider that your laws are competent to protect your people? Answer. I think we have the most stringent criminal laws, probably, of any in the United States, if they can be carried out; they are very rigid. Question. There is another matter I want to ask you about, and that is in regard to the taxation in this State, and the condition of your property; what is the financial condition of your State and of your treasury? Answver. I do not know what the condition is, so far as some matters are concerned; in regard to railroad matters, I can tell you how many bonds have been issued; $4,000,000 of bonds have been issued to a railroad, which I think will be perfected. Under a general act for different corporations-nobody can tell how many-$600,000 of 6 per cent. bonds, I think, have been issued, besides the $4,000,000. I think the indebtedness of the State is a little over a million and a half, including the State scrip. Question. Were you the gentleman who is named as taking part in the tax-payers' convention, the Hon. T. T. Long? Answer. I am the very man. Question. I observe here a preamble and set of resolutions adopted by that convention. Answier. I expect they originated with me. Question. Do you believe these resolutions express the truth in regard to the condition of your State? Aznswer. I know they express the truth in regard to the finances of the State. Question. Do they express the feeling of your property-holders? Answer. I expect they do. Question. Was that meeting called without respect to party affiliations? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Did gentlemen of both parties mingle in it? Ansver. Yes, sir: both republicans and democrats, colored men and white men; men of all classes and grades of politics came there. I drew those resolutions. That convention was gotten up more to relieve the people from taxation, and get the State scrip all taken up. [The preamble and resolutions referred to are as follows: " Preamble. "When in the judgment of citizens of free constitutional government it becomes necessary to adopt measures to preserve existing constitutional rights and representative republican government, or to effect legislative or other reforms, a proper respect both for themselves and for their fellow-citizens requires an explicit declaration of the principles which impel to action, and a definite statement of the particular object they propose to accomplish. We hold, therefore, that all men are equal before the law, and are entitled to the protection of life, liberty, and property, and the pursuit of happiness. The right of the people to publicly assemble and confer upon any question in which they are interested, freedom of speech and freedom of the press, public and free schools, the right of every man to worship God according to the dictates of his own conscience, impartial trial by jury, the writ of habeas corpus, the civil power above the military, free, fair and untrammeled elections, the elective precincts to be established convenient to the people so that their ballots may be cast without annoyance and hinderance from their business for an unreasonable length of time, and every precaution made to preserve the integrity of the ballot-box, and the honest and impartial counting the result of every election, are all great cardinal principles to preserve American civil liberty and the fundamental principles of our Government. " And whereas the deplorable condition of the State, as well as county finances and affairs, is a consequence of the loose and reckless legislation of men formed into governing cliques-" rings and caucuses," banded to sustain such organizations independent and destructive of the principles of American free government-it is our judgment from past experience that there can be no hope for relief from excessive taxation and amelioration of the condition of the masses of the people, only in the determination of the whole people, representing the interest of the laborer, agriculturist, mechanic, manufacturer, merchant, and capitalist, all having mutual interests growing

Page  209 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMI'ITEE. 209 out of and depending one upon the other, to sustain no man for office or promotion that we do not know to be honest, capable, and industrious to perform his duties as a publicemnployv, free from personal bias when the great interests of the people are conceried. For these reasons, therefore " Resolved, That the increased and increasing expenses of State and county governments require an expression of opinion by those interested in the economical administration of their affairs. "Resolved, That the present exorbitant rate of taxation is not only detrimental to the prosperity of the State, but an injustice to a large mass of the citizens who are compelled to bear the burdens of its payment, and which must, from necessity, militate against the poor as well as the rich, and especially upon the laboring and producing class of our citizens. " Resolved, That we believe the consummation of so desirable an object requires the most scrutinizing discretion in the appointment of officers, both State and county, and that we pledge ourselves to use all honorable means for State officers hereafter to be elected; that they shall be men who will not be ruled by a " ring, or caucuses," independent of their own judgment of what is right and just for the interest of the whole people. Resolved, That the governor of the State having large discretionary and appointing power, we hereby respectfully recommend and demand that in making appointments a careful scrutiny should be observed, that none but honest, capable, and industrious men be hereafter appointed to office. "Resolved, That the people of the counties, by their delegates here assembled in convention, respectfully say to his excellency the governor, that we are indifferent to what past political party the officers hereafter appointed shall belong —we only requiring the test of honesty, capability, and industry, to serve the people not as rulers but as public employes fulfilling all the requirements of the lawv."] Question. Do you know what the market value of your bonds now is? Answer. I think the railroad bonds have been or are to be sold for about 70 cents on the dollar; the 6 per cent. bonds I do not think could be sold for anything. Question. How many of those are out? Answer. Between $500,000 and $600,000, I think. The railroad bonds have been sold. Question. There is a statement in the Tri-Weekly Courier of September 14, 1871, to this effect: " The taxable property of the people of the State has been arbitrarily assumed, for the purpose of revenue only, to be $34,439,053, and that upon this arbitrary and raised valuation there has been assessed a sum amounting in the aggregate to $471,811. It is believed that the county and corporation taxes will amount to more than this sum, to be added. This tax of more than one million of dollars must be paid out of the personal property, as in most localities real estate is not convertable into money. The personal property is estimated to amount to the sum of $11,721,521; the tax therefore, is nearly one-eleventh part of all the personal property in the State This has been fixed up by the celebrated board of equalization, the act passed by a bogus legislature majority, for its establishment January 27, 1871. The president of the board is Wml H. Gleason, who holds a seat in the legislature, and was never elected. Purman and Billings are also members of this board. Monroe County, with 953 voters, the average value of the land is put down at $16 91, and the whole amount of taxes $8,056 17, the county and-corporation tax not included. Jefferson, with 1,632 voters, the average value of the land is put down at $4 85, and the tax, 15,395 52, not including county and railroad tax. Leon, with 2,942 voters, the average value of the land is put down at $5 16, the tax 22,449 02, not including county, corporation, and railroad tax. In Duval, the average price of land is put down at $2 19. In Franklin County, at 9 cents per acre. In Levy, at 44 cents per acre; in Liberty, 25 cents; in La Fayette, at $1 38 per acre; in Wakulla at 60 cents, and Washington at $2 05. Verily, verily, these carpet-baggers are a wise set of men,'in a horn.' The whole thing has something of the appearance of the school-boy play of tag, but a little more serious to those that are tagged." Do you believe that the statement in respect to personal property and taxation is mainly correct? Answer. These figures are taken from the county returns. Question. Is that in substance a correct statement of the taxation in this State? Answer. A correct statement so far as the books of the county show; I cannot say that the books are correct. Question. What is the politics of the Tallahassee Sentinel? Answer. It is a republican pager. Question. I find in that paper an article taken from the Floridian, headed, " What has become of the proceeds?" [See article incorporated in testimony of C. B. Wilder, subsequently taken.] Have you read that article, and read the statement of the disposition of the proceeds of $2,800,000 of bonds which had been issued by the State to General Littlefield? Answer. I read that article. 14 B

Page  210 210 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Question. It is stated in that article that, as a result of Littlefield's sale and use of those bonds, there remained for the use of the company about 33~ cents on the dollar in currency. Ansuwer. I do not think that is a correct statement. Question. It is taken from the record of the suit tried in New York in chancery? Answer. That suit originally emanated in my court, upon $600,000 of bonds that Hopkins &. Co. had. An injunction was served upon Hopkins, and I made him give bond to pay this $600,000 toward the building of this road; consequently, that would change these figures over 35 cents. I have no doubt the editor had no idea of the judicial matters going on at the time. (Qestion. There was security that would increase it by the amount of the $600,000? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. How much in all? Answer. It seems this money is in the hands of Mr. Hopkins in New York, who was the broker, and the party who sold the bonds. There was a mistake in the application of that money. Hopkins intended to apply it to other purposes, but the road was determlined that he should not do it. They resorted to my court, and I stopped 600,000 of it while here. If there is any rascality or roguery in that thingl, I think it is on the part of Mr. Hopkins, of New York. Littlefield is determined to get it for the road. Littlefield owed Iopkins for iron and things in advance, and there was still due from Hopkins $800,000, besides what I have secured. Question. What has been the price at which these bonds have been sold? Answer. I cannot speak of these things, only as I have heard them; I have heard they have been sold from 43 to 83 cents. on the dollar. Question. Do you know what Littlefield sold the bonds to Hopkins for? Answer. I do not know. Question. The facts, as set forth in this paper, are not correct? Answer. No, sir, because they were not aware at the time that editorial was written that this $600,000 was stopped. Question. That $600,000 was a part of the $2,800,000? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. That leaves $2,200,000 remaining; is the statement of the paper correct in regard that $2,200,000? Answer. I do not know how much Littlefield has got from Hopkins. Question. Is Hopkins the agent of Littlefield or of the State? Answer. Of Littlefield. Question. How much has been expended by Littlefield in this State? Answer. I cannot tell. Question. How much did he receive from the State? Answer. Probably $4,000,000. I could have known how much he has expended by asking him, but I did not ask him, because I preferred not to know, as I was the judge of this circuit. Question. The State of Florida would then have but an equitable claim upon Hopkins & Co.? Answer. They would have this claim: if they could get Hopkins here, they would make him disgorge. Question. That would be as equitable assignee of Littlefield's interest? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Hopkins was Littlefield's private and confidential agent? Answer. Not now; he was at the time. Question. The $4,000,000 of bonds were issued to Littlefield, the president of this road, under the laws of Florida? Answer. Yes, sir, and he passed them over to Hopkins. Question. And the law of Florida allowed him to do that? lnswer. They were put in his hands to sell, for the purpose of building the road. Question. You do not know what portion of that money has been returned by him to the benefit of the road or to the treasury of the State? Answer. I know that $840,000 of the old railroad bonds have been purchased and paid in. Question. The debt of Florida is about $1,500,000, together with these $4,000,000 of bonds, making $5,500,000 of the bonded debt of the State. Answer. There is a half a million of bonded debt; the bonds have been issued, and are in the hands of the governor. Question. Has your treasury been paying its debts in money? Answer. No, sir; I get for my salary $2,500 in scrip, worth about 30 cents on the dollar. Question. That is paid you by the treasurer? Anstwer. Yes, sir. I could not pay my taxes with it; they will not take it for Question. What is the rate of your tax? Answcer. I think, take every man in the State, poor and rich, high and low

Page  211 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 211 and black, it would average about two and a half dollars each. As for my taxes this year, I would willingly give all my salary, and a hundred dollars in gold to anybody who would pay them; they will not take my salary in payment of it. We have a railroad tax in the county I formerly lived in, in Columbia County, where my property is. The State was bonded before the war for the building of that road, and that tax is now to be collected and paid, and the county of Columbia has $196,000 to pay. Question. Have other State debts been authorized by the legislature? I.Answer. All these others were authorized. Question. To what amount? Ainsiwer. I suppose legion is about the only word that would spell it; they are various, and issued upon certain contingencies. Each road is entitled to so much. I think Mr. Osborn has some bonds to build his road; Mr. Reed has some. Question. What Osborn; United States Senator? lAnswer. I do not know whether bonds or lands; one or the other. Question. He has a road in course of construction? A4nswer. He has a road that he wants to construct. Question. What is the prospect of the people of Florida in the face of this debt, in their present condition, if they have to pay the interest on it, and keep it up? Answer. I do not think the surplus of the State will pay the taxes of the State-take the railroad tax, school tax, militia tax, county tax, State tax, and municipal tax. Owing to the recent storms here, and the distress of the country, I do not think there will be a surplus in the State. to pay the taxes. The owner of a farm will have to not pay his laborers if he pays his tax. Farmers have failed in their crops, and no man, if he has made a little, will pay his taxes and let his laborers go. Question. The governor has by proclamation postponed the payment of this tax until the 1st of December next? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Suppose these taxes are then enforced against the property-holders, what would be the result? Answer. I am sorry to say that I think it will be general ruin to the agricultural interest. Question. Can these taxes be collected without an enforced sale of the real estate of the people? Ansier. Not in a great many parts of the State. Question. The effect of that will be to throw out of employment those now employed t Answer. I think so. I am sorry the governor did not suspend the tax until the legislature could meet, and allow them to pass an act authorizing the scrip now out to be used to pay taxes, and permit the farmer in that way to pay his debts to the State. Question. I-ow do the expenses of your State government now compare with what they were before the war? Answer. I suppose they are now three or four to one. For a number of years before the war the State tax averaged about $83,000 or $85,000; this year the taxes. I think, amounted to $471,000. Since 1868 the accumulated State debt has been about a million of dollars; I think the State debt in 1868 was $650,000, now it is $1,650,000; that is outside of the railroad bonds issued. Question. It has increased 300 per cent. within three years? Answer. It has been increased very rapidly? Question. Has this been the result of extravagance in the disbursement of the State funds? I wish you would state, as far as you know, where the money has gone, who has got it, and what has been done with it. Answer. That is a thing I do not think any man this side of eternity can tell, except' the governor; I know I cannot, and I do not suppose the comptroller can tell; it is not here, and the taxes are increased. Question. What has been the character of your legislation; has it been prudent and careful, or reckless and incompetent? Answetr. You ask me a very plain question, and I must give a very plain answer; it has been reckless and incompetent both. Question. Has it been corrupt, in the opinion of the people of the State? Answuer. What do you mean by corrupt? Question. I mean dishonest. Answcer. There are dishonest men there, I have no doubt, but I cannot say that a majority of them are so. Question. Have the resources of the State been squandered? Alscwer. I will say they have not been husbanded very carefully. Question. Have you any means of accounting for,how this enormous growth of the debt has been incurred, and how these vast expenditures have been made? Answ'er. Only by acts of the legislature; they have given a great deal of latitude to the comptroller. They have made a great many appropriations which they require to be paid, and they have required the comptroller to levy taxes to pay them. There are a great many taxes which the people should be relieved friom.

Page  212 212 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Question. The State treasury is now insolvent? Answer. You can have my scrip for 30 cents on the dollar; that is the most I have got for it this year. If I was not able to live without my salary, I could not hold the office. Question. What will be the result to your people if, by the 1st of December, they are called upon to pay these taxes? Answer. The hope of the people is this: the governor has put it off until the 1st of December, and the legislature meets on the 1st of January. It takes the tax-gatherer two weeks to get around; it takes thirty days more to sell the property, if the taxes are not paid; and before that is done, the people hope that the legislature will relieve them. I hope there is a sentiment among the members of the legislature to relieve the people of Florida, for they are in a very critical condition, so far as their finances are doncerned. Question. One method would be to provide that the scrip should be accepted in payment of taxes? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What will become of the other creditors? Answer. We believe in taking care of the people at home first; the governor must take care of the treasury. Question. What has become of the interest on this large bonded debt of $4,000,000? Answer. That has been paid three or four years in advance. Question. To whom? Answer. To the English capitalists who took the bonds. Question. The interest has been paid? Answer. Yes, sir; and that is the reason why I was anxious that the governor should not tax us for interest on those bonds, or for military expenses, for we have the United States military here, and they can take care of us. I have been a great friend of Governor Reed, and worked for him very hard on several occasions when he got into trouble. Question. The legislature assembles in January? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. It is elected? Answler. Yes, sir. Question. Does that legislature contain material that has at heart the interest of the people of Florida, and intellectual ability to devise means for their relief? Answer. If they have not got it, the safety of the political party to which the majority lilong, I think, will make them see that they must do it. Question. Where will they get this aid if they have not got it in their own body? Answer. They will find out that the feeling of the people is such that they will pass the acts that are required. Question. You have described your State to be in a most deplorable condition, fiuauo;ally-a condition which calls for the very highest order of financial ability to extrioete her from her troubles, and put her squarely on her feet again. Have you, in your p.esent legislatfre as now elected, the elements for such relief? Answer. If so, I have not seen it; that is all; they have not displayed it. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. I understood you to say that your disabilities were removed by Congress? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. When? Answer. I think I was in the first list of men from Florida whose disabilities were,rmoved. Question. What disabilities had you to be removed? Answer. I had been State senator in Georgia and solicitor general of the Savannah circuit. Question. That did not create disabilities. Answer. That is all I recollect of; they were removed by act of Congress. I held no office under the United States Government; I had been in the war; I had favored the rebellion; I was a secessionist, but I got it whipped out of me, and quit. Question. You were among the original crowd of secessionists? Answer. I was not in any convention. Question. When did you come to Florida? Anlswer. I was two or three years old when I first came here; but when I was about twenty years old I moved from Florida, and then came back in 1859. Question. When did you hold these offices in Georgia? Answer. I was in the Georgia serate in 1850 and in 1852, and in 1855 I was solicitor general. I beat Tom Butler King in 1855 for the senate. Question. You say that, if men come here and behave themselves, they will be protected? Answer. I mean come not drinking, stealing, carousing, &c.

Page  213 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 213 Question. Have they not the protection of the law whether they behave themselves or not? Answer. What I mean by "protected" is, that they would be respected more than protected; if they do not behave themselves, they are made to do it, both those who come here and those who are here. Question. That is what you mean by saying if men come here and behave themselves they would be protected? Answer. Yes, sir; they are respected and would be protected by law. Question. Are not men protected whether respected or not? Answer. Yes, sir; but I mean that if they behave themselves, they are respected and taken upon equal terms by the citizens. Question. That is all that you mean? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You have spoken of Mr. Tidwell as being a professional gambler and farodealer; when was that? Answer. I saw him in 1859 and 1860, and along there. Question. How recently have you seen him: Answer. I have seen him a dozen times in a year recently. Question. Keeping a faro-bank? Answer. Either in 1859 or 1860. Question. You have not seen him play since that time? Answer. No, sir. Question. Did you ever play with him? Answer. Yes, sir, before that time I did; I never dealt faro with him. Question. You bet on it? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. He was on one side and you on the other? Answer. Yes, sir; like many others in this world. Question. You have'been asked what Mr. Tidwell's character is, and I want you to state what it is at this time in the community where he lives. Answer. I do not reside in that community now; he lives in Madison, and I live here; I know nothing against his character now. Question. Is he entitled to be believed, according to your estimate of him, as a witness under oath? Answer. I would not say he is not, because I do not reside in his neighborhood; I have not resided with him for years. I do not know anything against his character for truth and veracity; I think he is a prejudiced man; that is about all I have against him. Question. I understand you to say that you would not believe Mr. Frank Myers on oath? Answer. From his character and vacillation. Question. What has he vacillated in? Answer. In almost everything. Question. In anything but politics? Answer. Yes, sir, in other things. If you wish, I will give you the reason. When I was in the circuit there as judge, I heard many complaints from colored men about his not paying them; he would swear he had, and they said he had not. I believe the colored men never did get their pay. For these reasons I have been disposed to think that Myers was a bad man. Question. Tell us what your political course has been. Answer. I was in old times a democrat, and secessionist afterward. When this State came back into the Union, I took the oath of allegiance to the Government of the United States, and I have been true and loyal ever since. Question. With what political party have you acted? Answer. With the republican party. Question. In every instance? Answer. Until lately; I do not propose to act with them now until they come back to proper principles. Question. How did you vote last fall? Answer. I have not voted in my countyjor some time; I was not at home last fall. Question. Where did you vote at any time before that? Answer. I always voted in Lake City, where I lived. Question. How many times have you voted there since the war? Answer. Twice. Question. When was that? Answer. I cannot recollect the time; I voted but once; I voted at the time of Judge Knight's election. Question. Who was Judge Knight? Answer. He ran for the State senate. Question. He was a republican?

Page  214 214 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You have voted one republican ticket since reconstruction? Answer. Yes, sir; I have not been at elections before. Question. What other claim have you for being considered a republican? Answer. I do not know that I belong to either party; I want to vote for the best meu. I stumped the State of Florida for the constitution and for Governor Reed; I was the first man that came out flat-footed for the constitution of Florida, and for Governor Reed. I sustain Governor Reed. and have sustained him in his troubles. Question. You have spoken of a convention which is called the tax-payers' conven tion; you say that was made up of all political parties? Answer. They were from all parties, I said Question. I have here a list of delegates. I will read over some of tkem, and ask you to state what their politics are. What is J. M. Burnside? Answer. A republican. Question. What is E. Dias? Answer. I am inclined to think he is a republican. Question. What is William O'Cain? Answer. I do not know his politics. Question. What is P. A. Holt? Answer. He holds office under Reed; some consider him a republican, and some a democrat. Question. What is A. B. Hagan? Answer. Rather more conservative than anything else. Question. What do you mean by conservative? Ansiwer. I think he is more with the democrats than with the republicans. Question. What is A. Peeler? Answer. I cannot tell you his politics. Question. What is C. E. W. Collins? Answer. Conservative, democrat. Question. What is A. Grant I Answer. Republican. Question. What is C. B. Simmons? Answer. A republican. Question. What is G. Bush? Answer. I think he is a republican; I am not certain. Question. What is Thomas Lancaster? Answer. I think he is a republican. Question. What is F. Franklin? Answer. I aml rather inclined to think he is a republican. Question, What is Miles Price? Ainswcr. He is a conservative. Question. What do you mean by conservative? Answer. A democrat. Question. What is J. G. Thompson? Answer. I think he is a republican. Question. What is J. N. Haddock? Answer. He is a democrat. Question. What is John Westcott? Answer. A democrat. Question. What is E. Hopkins? Answer. He is a democrat. QuestionJ. What is C. B. Wilder? AnSser. A republican. Question. What is F. J. Wheaton? Answier. He is a democrat. Question. What is N. A. Hull? Answer. A democrat. Question. What is B. Upton? A nswier. I do not know. Question. What is H. Robinson? Ansicer. I do not know what Robinson is. Question. T T. Long is yourself. What is S. Fairbanks? A uswer. He is a democrat. Question. What is A. Bateman? Answier. I do not know. Question. What is B. Tatem? Anszuer. I do not know. Question. What is T. Altman? Ansrver. I do not know. Question. What is E. N. Lee?

Page  215 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 215 Answer. He held an office under Governor Reed. I do not know what his politics are. Question. What is S. T. Turnbull? Answer. A democrat. Question. Wlhat is W. Gwynn? Answer. He is a democrat. Question. What is C. E. Dyke? Answer. A democrat. Question. What is E. J. Vann? Answer. A democrat. Question. What is R. H. Willard? Answler. I suppose he is a democrat. Question. What is S. 0. Swann? Answcer. A democrat. Question. What is J. T. Wilson? Answer. A republican. Question. What is J. A. Purviance? Answer. I do not know. Question. What is J. F. White? Answer. A democrat. Question. What is J. H. Sutton? Answver. A republican. Question. What is A. H. Terrill? Answuer. I do not know his politics. Question. That is the convention that passed these resolutions? Answier. Yes, sir. Question. You say there have been no cases before your court, except one, in which you are satisfied there was politics? Answer. There may have been some others, but I saw nothing of it in the evidence. Question. You have received information from Jackson County? Answer. I have. Question. From whom? Answer. From different gentlemen My brother resides there. Question. What is his politics? Answer. I think he has not much politics, but money. Question. What was his course during the war? Ansier. He was a Union man, and was captured at Marianna, and staid away during the war. Question. Who captured him? Answeer. The Federalists. Question. Captured by his own friends? Answer. I do not say so. Question. You say all the difficulties in Jackson County have originated from Pur. man and Mr. Hamilton? Ans wer. Governor Reed made that remark. Question. When? Answer. In Tallahassee, when the friends of Mr. Dickinson came to him, Question. To whom did he make it? Answer. A number of gentlemen in town. Question. He did not make it to you? Answer. No, sir; but I do not think he will deny it. Question. What had Purman done to create that trouble? Answer. Exasperated the people there for their own benefit. Question. Exasperated them to kill the negroes? Answer. I do not say so. Question. How many ho'micides have been committed there since the war? Anlswer. A great many. Question. Have there not been nearly a hundred? Answer. I have heard that there have been a great many; I cannot say how many. Question. You think those homicides w7ere exasperated by these men Purman anti Hamilton? Answer. I think they had a great deal to do with them, from what Governor Reed said. Question. Those men did not talk to the democrats? Answser. I do not know that they (lid. Question. They were not democrats? Answer. Who were not? Question. Purman and Hamilton. Answer. No, sir.

Page  216 216 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Question. They talked to the negroes principally; that is the charge against them, is it? Answer. I suppose so. Question. Have the negroes committed these homicides? Answer. I do not know who committed them; I was not there. I said but one came before me officially that I thought was political. Question. Who told you that he believed Mr. Dickinson was killed by a colored man of the name of Bryant? Answer. I have heard it from several gentlemen. Question. Tell me one. Answer. I could probably name more than one. Question. Name one at first. Answer. I think Colonel McClellan was one. Question. That is the father of the girl who was killed? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Tell us another; did Coker tell you so? Answer. 1 do not know that he ever told me; I do not recollect. Question. Let us have another name. Answer. I think McClellan was one. I met him at Tallahassee afterward. I really cannot think who they were. It was general talk-so general that I cannot give the names. Question. Well, we have McClellan for one. Ansiver. That is my recollection at present. Question. You cannot give any other? Answer. Not now. Question. McClellan charged that Dickinson was killed by Bryant for having been guilty of improper familiarity with a colored woman? Answer. I said that was the general report and rumor throughout the State at the time. Question. What was the report? Answer. That Dickinson was killed for having connection with a negro woman. Question. What relation had Bryant to the negro woman? Answer. I do not know; he may have been her husband. Question. Did you ever hear a republican make that charge against the memory of Mr. Dickinson? Answer. I do not know that I have. Question. You have heard plenty of democrats make it? Answer. I have heard -a great many say so. I do not know whether they were all democrats or not. Question. Has there been any attempt made to bring Bryant to trial and punishment in that county? Answer. I think I heard he had been arrested, but I am not certain. Question. That he had been tried? Amswver. I do not know that he has been indicted, but I think I heard something was done. Question. You saw something in the newspapers, you say, about a party of colored people going to a picnic, and being fired into? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You think a preacher was shot? Answer. I think so. Question. Do you not know that a father with his child in his arms was killed, and that the child was killed, as they were going along the road? Answer. I heard that some were shot. Question. Did you ever hear of anybody being punished for that? Answer. No, sir. Question. Did you understand that Purman and Hamilton were responsible for that? Answer. I only speak of the excitement that first started these things. Question. What first started it? Answer. Exciting the colored people against the white people. Question. In what way; anything more than to vote against them? Answer. Yes, sir; telling them that they were their former owners; that they were slave-dealers, and all such stuff. Question. Is that any reason why the white people should kill the negroes? Answer. I do not know that they did kill them. Question. Am I to understand you as saying that these homicides were generally of colored people? Answer. The most of them. Question. And that the black people were killed because they had been taught to array themselves against the white people?

Page  217 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 217 Answer. I only tell you what Governor Reed said about it. Question. Do you know whether he said that or not? Answer. Yes, sir; I am satisfied from what the gentlemen told me that he did. Question. You did not hear it? JAnswer. I have given a great deal here that was not stated to me. Question. Do you know anything about a man of the name of Fleischman killed there? Answver. I have heard of it. Question. Why was he murdered? Answer. I do not know. Question. Did you know him? Ansswer. Yes, sir. Question. What sort of a man was he? Answer. I suppose I knew the same man; he traded in Quincy; had a store there. There were two brothers; one died in Ohio, or somewhere else, and the other went to Marianna. Question. You do not know what he was killed for? Answer. I have heard a rumor. Question. What was that? Answer. That he got into some difficulty with the white people. Question. What was the difficulty? Answer. I do not know. Question. And the white people had him killed? Answer. I do not know who killed him. Question. Was there anybody killed before that time? Did you ever hear of a clerk of the court being killed? Answer. No, sir, I never heard of the clerk of the court being killed. I have heard of a clerk of the court killing a man. Question. In Jackson County? Answer. No, sir. Question. I mean did you ever hear of a clerk of the court in Jackson County being shot down as he was crossing the square? Answer. I heard that Dickinson was killed. Question. Did you never hear of Doctor Finlayson being killed? Answer. Yes, sir; I do not recollect that he was clerk of the court at the time. Question. How did you understand he was killed? Answer. I understood that he and Major Purman were walking across the street and were shot at. Question. Did you understand that he had been keeping some colored woman, or something of that sort,? Answer. I do not; I do not believe he ever did. Question. What did you hear said against him? Answer. I never heard anything alleged against him. Question. He was a republican? Answer. I suppose so. Question. A prominent republican? Answer. A very promising young man, I think; a very clever young man, Question. Mr. Purman was a republican? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Mr. Dickinson was a republican? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Do you wish us to understand that, in your opinion and belief, this immense number of homicides were occasioned by the teachings of Mr. Purman and Mr. Hamilton? Answer. I say that Governor Reed stated to Mr. Purman that the cause of these killings in Jackson County, and the death of this man, were traceable to the teachings of him and Mr. Hamilton, in Jackson County. Question. He said that to Mr. Purman? Answer. So I understand; I do not know anything about it, only what I have deard. Question. Is it not very strange that, for all these homicides there, no body has been punished? Answer. It is very strange, and very wrong. Question. How do you account for it? Answer. I do not know how to account for it. Question. You have been speaking of the officers of the State government as being extravagant? Answer. Yes, sir; I think so. Question. In what has the extravagance consisted? Answer. The pay of the officers is extravagant, and we have more officers than we ought to have; more circuit judges than we ought to have; more officers around the

Page  218 218 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. capital than we ought to have; and they are paid too much in proportion to the treasury of the State. Question. That is what your idea of extravagance is? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. How many circuit judges have you? 4Answer. Seven. Question. For the whole State of Florida? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. From the amount of crime that has been testified to before us, and the very few punishments that have taken place, I think you ought either to have a few more, or not any at all. Alswer. That is a mere matter of judgment; I have a very good circuit. Question. Is Duval County in your circuit? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Did you hold court in that county last July? Answer. Not last year; I came into the circuit in July or August; I held court here last summer once. Question. What was the last court you held in Duval County? Answer. I held court here in May, June, and July; nine weeks, I think. Question. When did your term begin? Answer. The jury was drawn wrong at the first term and had to be drawn over again. Question. How many criminal cases did you have on your docket? Answer. I do not know. Question. You do not know the state of your own docket? Answer. We did not begin.to get through it. Question. How many criminal cases on it? Answer. I think five murder cases; I did not pay any attention to the others. Question. How many criminal cases were tried? Answer. No murder cases, but a number of other cases were disposed of. Question. Is Clay County in your circuit? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. When did you last hold court there?.Answer. Two or three weeks ago. Questions. When you were there, did you hear anything about the case of a man of the name of Sam Tutson? Answer. Yes, sir; I issued a warrant for them and turned it over to the commissioner. Question. Did the grand jury have that case before them? Answer. I do not think the old man came there until after they were through; I did not see him until after the court had adjourned. He came to ie and made complaint, and I issued a warrant for the arrest of the parties. Question. Were they arrested? Answer. I turned the warrant over to the marshal here; I issued a warrant for seven or nine-two colored, and five or seven white. QuestSn. Was anything done in that county with those parties? Answer. They were taken before the United States court. Question. Did not your grand jury fail to find or refuse to find indictments against those parties for the injuries done to Tutson and his wife? Answer. I was not aware the case went before themn at all; if they had done so, and it was brought to my notice, it would have been severely punished by me. Question. You know but little about crimes in this country until they are brought before you for trial? Answer. I hear of them. Question. I understand you cannot tell how many criminal cases are on your docket in this county? Answer. I do not know now; I c'n find out. Question. Do you know any more about criminal cases outside of the court-house than you do about those inI Answer. If any case was reported to me I would issue a warrant for the party, and have him arrested and turned over to the justice of the peace to be bailed, or refused to be tailed, or discharged. Question. You have spoken of legislation which you say was reckless; tell us'about sonle which you regard as reckless. Answer. I regard the passage of this present code as reckless. It is not so made as to be consistent at all with existing laws. I look upon the law in regard to the board of equalization; the act of the legislature disposing of great quantities of the lands of the State, or consenting to it, for railroad purposes; the act of the legislature which requires the people to pay a tax for military purposes when there is no military needed in the State, for we have the United States military here; I think that is reckless. I think the legislature has been reckless in making an appropriation of bonds and appropriating money; I do not think there, is any degree of economy at all in it.

Page  219 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 219 Question. Do you know of any warrants having been issued against certain parties charged with counterfeiting, which warrants were lodged with the United States marshal? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Who were those parties? Answer. I issued a warrant for Nobles, Sweet, and I think another man who has been sentto the Dry Tortugas. Question. Did you ever say anything to the United States marshal about giving up those warrants? Answer. No, sir; not that I know of; give them up to whom? Question. Did you ever say anything to him about letting them be taken, stolen, or otherwise got out of his office? Answer. No, sir; I steal the warrants? No, sir. Question. I did not say that; but did you say anything about his letting them be stolen? Answer. No, sir. Question. Did you ever offer to let him have any money if he would contrive to let the warrants be stolen out of his office? Answer. No, sir; I wish he was here and you would ask him. Question. You have been a judge here in all these various circuits, and have kinsmen all over the State? Answer. I have but one brother in the State; I have some cousins. Question. You have kinsmen in the State and are largely acquainted in the State. I wish you would tell us how it has been that such a number of the leading prominent republicans in this State have been put to death within the last two or three years, and nobody has been arraigned even, much less punished, for the commission of such crimes. Answer. I can only speak of my own circuit. If any republican has been put to death in my circuit, the parties have been indicted and brought to justice as far as in my power or the power of the law to do it. Question. As to the condition of things in other parts of the State, you cannot give any information? Ailswer. I can give only what I have heard, as I said at the time. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. You were asked a great deal about this tax-payers' convention, and the names of the delegates were read over to you. I want to ask you whether the very great majority of the tax-payers of this State are not members of the democratic or conservative party? Answer. Well, so far as I know, in the circuits where I have been, a very large majority of them are. Question. I understand that the colors of this State, black and white, are pretty nearly equally divided. Answer. I think the whites in the State have from 1,000 to 1,500 majority. Question. I understand that the negroes are almost to a unit republicans? Answer. With some few exceptions. Question. I will ask now whether the property of the State, the lands of the State, are not chiefly owned by the white people? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. They, of course, pay the taxes? Answer. Yes, sir; the taxes on property. Question. What proportion of the white people in this State do you suppose are republicans; is it not a very small proportion, indeed? Answer. The calculation made before the last election was that there were about 400 or 500 northern men who were republican,;, and about 1,500 or 1,600 southern men who were republicans. Question. White men? Answer. Yes, sir; I think that is a very correct calculation. By Mr. SCOFIELD: Question. How many voters in all in the State? Answer. I do not recollect; I only recollect something about the republican vote. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. The payment of the taxes is to be borne by the white people? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And of that the party that embraces the most of them has the most to pay Answer. The party with the most property has the most to pay. Question. I understand that the democrats have had nothing to do in the State government for many years? Answer. The republicans have been in the majority.

Page  220 220 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Question. They have had the control of the State? Answer. They have of the legislature, if you call that the control of the State. Question. Under your system the governor has the appointment of all the local officers of the counties, except the constables? answer. I think so; I do not know but he has that in certain cases; in the event that they are not elected, I think that he has then the power to appoint. Question. In regard to elections; the county commissioners, I understand, are appointed by the governor? Answer. Yes, sir, that is a requirement of the constitution. Question. And the elections are held under their directions? Answer. Well, they designate the precincts and the parties to hold the elections. Question. When the ballots have been cast and the election closed, into whose custody are the poll-books given? Answer. I think they are left in the hands of those who are appointed to hold elections until the ballots are counted out; I think the law requires that they shall remain in their control until counted out. Question. Are they generally throughout the State men of one party? Answer. I cannot speak of that; I cannot tell you; I think that in some counties they are divided. Question. As a rule is it generally the case that they are of one party? Answer. A majority of the officers may be of one party. Question. How long were they counting out the votes cast at the election? Answer. I do not know; I was holding court. Question. How long before the result was declared in the State? Answer. There was some stoppage in the declaration of the votes, on account of the returns not coming in, or the decision of Judge White, or something suspending it. Question. Were not the votes of a great many precincts thrown out? Answer. Where; at Tallahassee? Question. Yes. Answer. I have heard so; I do not know anything about it. Question. Were not enough democratic votes thrown out to change the result of the election? Answer. That is the rumor; I do not know how true it is. Question. Who were the board of canvassers? Answer. Mr. Gibbs was one. Question. Who is he? Answer. He is the secretary of state. Question. Is he a colored man? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Who were the others? Answer. Mr. Gamble was another, and I think the attorney general was the other one. Question. Have they the control of the question whether the votes of precincts or districts should be received? Answer. I think they have. Question. You do not know what votes were thrown out by them? Answer. I do not. Question. To the best of your information, what number of votes were rejected? Answer. Well, if you go into that, I can only tell you what people have told me. Question. Credible persons? Answer. I have heard Judge Niblack say so, and I think I have heard a great many others say so; I do not recollect who they are. Question. What did they tell you? Answer. They said that enough was thrown out to secure the election of Mr. Walls, and enough thrown, out to secure the election of Judge Tate. Question. That was by the attorney general, the secretary of state, and the comptroller? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. How many weeks did it take to do that? Answer. I cannot tell; it was some time. JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA, November 13, 1871. J. C. GIBBS (colored) sworn and examined. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. State your age, where you were born, and where you now reside. Answer. I am about forty-two years years of age; I was born in Philadelphia; and I now reside in Tallahassee, Florida.

Page  221 FLORIDA —SUB-COMMITTEE. 221 Question. How long have you been living there? Answer. I came into this State in 1867. Question. And you have been living in Tallahassee all the time? Answer. For the best portion of the time. I lived down on the river for awhile, until I was made secretary of state, and then I removed to the capital. Question. What do you know of an organization in this State that is commonly called the Ku-Klnx? Answer. I have seen some men that I have reason to believe belonged to that organization. I have seen one man who told me himself that he was a member of the KuKlux. Question. Who was he? Answer. His name was Mark Richardson. Question. In what county did he live? Answer. In Taylor County. Question. Was he a whiQl man? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Did he give you any account of the organization? Answer. He did. He said that he knew where the regalia was, and that he had attended their meetings. I telegraphed to the United States commissioner to come up and take his statement concerning the matter. Some four or five others came in with him from Taylor County at the time, and complained that a body of men had come into Taylor County with a flag with three Ks on it; that they had alarmed the people very much; had committed some acts of violence; and, among others, that this man himself, Mark Richardson, was odious to them for some reason or other, for the reason that he was a republican, they believed, and therefore they wished to squelch him. He was as badly frightened and as uneasy as any man I have ever seen for a long while. I believe his statement was correct; but when he came before the commissioner, Judge Grunwell, he refused to take his testimony on this ground: He asked him when he was in the lodge last, and he said about thirteen months ago; and he asked when he saw that regalia and these men, and he said about the same time. And the commissioner said he would not take his testimony, because the law authorized him to take notice only of that which had taken place since that time; and he went on to state that it was contrary to usage to legislate backward; that was the pith of what he said. Question. When did Richardson have this talk with you? Answer. He had this talk with me probably two months or two months and a half ago. Question. Have you in your position as secretary of state any information from other counties? Answer. I have. Question. What is the character of that information? Answer. I have in my pocket now a letter that was written to me by Captain Dickinson just a month before he was killed; it was when the idea was first broached of this committee. I wrote to Mr. Dickinson, as the clerk of the county, to give me his views of such outrages as had taken place in a reliable form, so that I might lay them before this committee. I wrote to him, and I wrote to many others in this State in that way, asking them to state-what outrages had occurred, and to be careful and state just what could be proved. Captain Dickinson wrote me that letter, and it was not more than a month afterward that he was killed. There is another thing that I wish to say just at this point; that is, I believe Mr. Dickinson was as pure a man in his life, and as perfect a gentlemen, as is to be found anywhere. I take pleasure, in connection with the matter, to call attention to that fact. He was a religious man, a good man, a man of pure life. I do not think there was really a man in Florida against whose moral character less could be said. He was a high type of a gentleman, a graduate of Harvard College, a man of large experience of men. Any man who will read this letter can see pretty clearly what kind of a man he was. [The letter referred to is as follows: "MARIANNA, JACKSON COUNTY, February 23, 1871. SIR: Your letter of the 14th instant, requesting certain information as to outrages committed in this county since reconstruction, as to the spirit of the press, &c., &c., was received last night; the high water on the Apalachicola River delayed the mails. "I regret the fact that outrages upon loyalty in this county are always so vivid a reality of the present and so fearful a probability of the future that we have failed to think of the past. I cannot, without considerable time and research, give you any history of the different terrible/scenes through which I have passed here. "You intimate that your information must be immediate, and I will give you the best views of the situation I can under the circumstances. Since reconstructien there have been about seventy-five persons violently killed in this county; and more than nine-tenths were republicans, and nearly nine-tenths colored.

Page  222 222 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. "Practically the civil rights of the colored man are subordinate to those of the white man. The press has been and is disgustingly uncandid, abusive of everything republican, and at times openly seditious. "Human life is couited cheap when passion or politics call for its sacrifice, and the frequency and cold blood which have characterized our murders has not been to me so fearful a fact as the carelessness with which the public learn a new outrage.'Public sentiment is terribly demoralized in this direction. Within the last few days our sheriff has been shamefully beaten on the public streets aid two colored men fatally assaulted. Neither of them are yet dead, but I believe no hopes are entertained of their recovery. For myself, I blush to say that, for nearly three years, I have managed to live here only by dexterously compromising the expression of my opinions, and by a circumspect walk. To say that the colored man here has, through my agency, uniformly obtained even-handed justice, would be a lie! " To say that I have striven, even to a loss of self-respect, and several times by incurring personal dcnger, to do the best thing.under the cirlimstances, is but to tell the whole truth. If more particular information is required, I shall require time to prepare it. " Very respectfully, " J. Q. DICKINSON. "Hon. J. C. GIBBn, Secretary of Slate. "P. S.-One of the colored men I mentioned died last night, and I have held an inquest to-day. Verdict, Unknown! Everybody in the county knows the murderer; he has left for Alabama. I learn just now that the other man is dead, and I also hear it disputed. " I shall immediately investigate. " In haste, " J. Q. DICKINSON."] Question. It has been testified here this afternoon that it was very generally reported out there in Jackson County that Captain Dickinson was killed by a colored man of the name of Bryant, and that the killing proceeded from his having criminal connection with a colored. woman in his employ. Answer. I have not the least hesitancy in saying, in connection with that matter, that I believe that to be untrue in every particular; I believe that story was got up simply for the purpose of scandalizing the man; I believe it a vile act of injustice to the man's memory. If I thought there was anything in it I would as frankly say so as any one. Question. You are satisfied it is a. calumny for the purpose of screening the guilty? Answer. Yes, sir, perfectly so. I have seen the man many times; I have talked with him; I have seen him under circumstances that were very trying up there in Jackson County, in the face of those men; I know something of his life up there in that very respect. Why, sir, for months before he was slain it was a common thing-we all knew it; I talked with him about it and he talked with others concerning the matter -it was a common thing to say that he would be slain. Question. State whether this is a solitary instance where a republican has been put to death, and then his memory blackened by the accusation of some crime? Ansier. No, sir; it is a common thing. Let me say another thing just on this point. Inasmuch as it is considered a very disgraceful thing socially here, or among refined people, civilized people, to have a scandal of that kind started against their memory in connection with women, I have noticed that as a general thing when a man is politically obnoxious and is cut off or anything of that kind, immediately they say there is a woman in it. Question. Have you information of acts of violence from other counties? Answer. Yes, sir, I have a number of letters in my possession; here is a brief abstract I have made from letters concerning outrages and murders that have been committed in some. eight counties; and that is not all. I am certain, to the best of my belief, that I have understated the matter. You will see at the head of this list that I set down one hundred and fifty-three murders in Jackson County. I have stated that publicly in a speech here over a year ago, that that number of murders had taken place in Jackson County. Many persons have spoken about it here in this city, and I was told by Mr. McMillan that he had an account of one hundred and eighty-three murders in that county; I have put it at one hundred and fifty-three; my speech was published in the papers at the time, and a number of public men have asked me if I really believed that was the case, and I told them what I thought was the honest statement in the matter. The following is a brief abstract of the number of murders committed in the several counties mentioned, from letters in the office of secretary of state of Florida, since reconstruction: Jackson County, 153; Madison County, 20; Columbia County, 16; Taylor County, 7; Suwannee County, 10; Alachua County, 16; Lafayette County, 4; Hamilton County, 9.

Page  223 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 223 Question. What is the condition of your people generally in this State t Answer. Notwithstanding the difficulties that have occurred, I really believe that the colored people of Florida are better off than they are in any other Southern State; I believe there is more liberty, more personal freedom for themn here; that they are doing better, notwithstanding there has been that slaughter. I think that so far as the whites are concerned, the poorer class of whites, I honestly believe to-day that there is a large class of whites who are in a more hopeless condition in Florida than the blacks are, and particularly in the counties of Taylor, Lafayette, Sumter, and counties of that description, in which there lived during the war a class of men known as Union men. In Taylor and Lafayette Counties there took place what was called the Campfield raid. There. were a number of men who ran away from the confederate army and went to their families in Taylor and Lafayette counties. The troops made a raid on those people, burned up their houses, drove them out, took the wives and daughters of those men and carried them off, and put them in a stockade near Tallahassee, where they suffered very much. Now, in those counties at the present time, the persecution that has been carried on there is between what we call the democracy and the Union mnen. They swear that no Union man or republican shall live in those counties. Mr. Kreminger was killed there. Many times he has said to me that those men had sworn that no Union man should live in that county. He said over and over again that at times he was very much alarmed. At one time he wrote to me that they had threatened to burn his house and shoot him as he ran out. Qalestion. How about schools for your people? Aneswer. We have at least two schools in this State that are rather above the average of common schools among the freedmen; they are doing in that particular pretty well in view of the circumstances. Question. Where do you get your teachers? Answer. The most of them come from the North. Question. How are they received by the citizens here? Answer. They are badly received. I think we have thirty-one schools open in Leon County; there are a number of white teachers there, and they are ostracised altogether; the people do not recognize them, have nothing to do with them, and talk of them as though they were the offscouring of the earth; that is a common thing. Question. What is the feeling among the same class in respect to people of your color owning land? Answer. I think the feeling in that respect is moderating; I think the opposition to their owning land is not so great as it was some time ago. I think there is a change in niany respects for the better; it is coming around slowly; I think there is a marked change observable. By Mr. BAYARD: Question. You lived in Philadelphia? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What was your occupation there? Answer. I lived there when I was about sixteen or eighteen years of age, and went to school; I was educated in Dartmouth College, in New Hampshire, and I studied theology at Princeton, New Jersey. Question. With whom? Answer. With Dr. Hodge and Dr. Alexander. Question. Were you in the theological institute there? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Did you graduate there? Answer. I did not; I was there for nearly two years; I was a regularly matriculated student. Question. You came from there to Florida? Answer. No, sir; from there I went to Philadelphia, and was a pastor of a Presbyterian church there. I remained there until about the time that General Burnside took New Berne, and then I was selected by the Old School Presbyterian Church to come down here and take charge of the scattered members of the Presbyterian Church, and open schools and churches for them. I came down and operated in North Carolina and South Carolina until the latter part of 1867, and then I came into Florida. The original idea of my coming into Florida was in connection with the school interest here. I was elected as a delegate to the constitutional convention. Question. You are a regularly ordained clergyman? Answer. Yes, sir. I was elected as a delegate to the constitutional convention: I felt interested in the reorganization of the State, and took hold earnestly at that time. There was a necessity for men to take hold, and I did so, and became interested in politics from that point of view. When the organization of the State took place I was chosen as secretary of state, and have been acting as such ever since. Question. You came here in 1867; when was the convention? Answer. In 1868.

Page  224 224 CONDITION OF AFFAIRS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES. Question. You went at once into political life here, and have remained in it until this time? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. You were a delegate to the convention of ministers and laymen? Answer. Yes, sir. That was a convention of the Methodist Church. As a general thing, I am expected to attend these meetings and conferences, both of the Baptists and of the Methodists; I generally go there for the purpose of urging upon the ministers this school matter and homestead matter. I make it a point to attend the conventions for that purpose. In that way I can conveniently get at men all over the State. Question. I observe that you attended that convention and took part in their deliberations. Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And you approved of their action? Answer. As a general thing I did. Question. All the resolutions that they adopted, &c.? Answer. Some of them I did, and some I did not. There was one resolution that I do not exactly indorse. I was not present at the time, but I have spoken to several about it since. It was in relation to a statement made by Governor Reed there about his inability to protect loyal men in this State. I spoke about that to Bishop Pearce to-day. I understood Governor Reed to say that in view of the difficulties that were about him, unless matters changed and assumed a more favorable aspect, he did not see how he could protect loyal men. It was a sort of a prospective statement. That was the idea to my mind at the time. I did not understand him to say directly to that convention that he could not protect them. It is true that in some instances I have felt that the State government has not been able to protect loyal men in this State, both white and colored. At times there has been great fear manifested. I think we have between 6,000 and 7,000 republican majority in this State; but at the present time, with the fears that have been brought to bear upon the people, I do not believe that we could have a clear majority of votes polled in this State. Take Jackson County, for instance: at the first election there there were 200 white men who cast their votes with the republican party; we had a majority in that county of 800. At the last election that took place there there was a bare republican majority of two or three. The most of the white republicans have run away out of the county. I do not believe there were five white men in Jackson County who voted the republican ticket, I know of an instance in Wakulla County where a number of white nren who called themselves Union men came to Governor Reed and said that they desired to cast in their lot with the republican party, but they were afraid. I went clown into Wakulla County, and those men promised to meet me there and have a meeting, but they did not come near me. A few days afterward they came to Tallahassee, and we asked them why they did not come, and they said that they were afraid; that there was not a white man in the county who dared to go out to our meeting. Question. I observe that you state that you have made up this list of murders in the several counties from letters in the office of the secretary of state. Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Those are letters written by private individuals to you? Answer. Yes, sir; letters written by private individuals, but generally by prominent men; some of them have been members of the legislature; they are well-known men in those counties-men who have been in prominent positions. Question. Did they give you the numbers or the names merely? Answer. Well, they gave me the names in a number of instances; in oth er instances they gave just the number. In some instances they would specify particular cases by name. In Alachua I think all the names were given; in several other counties a number of names were given; in other counties only the number of cases. Question. Did they give you the names in the county of Jackson? Answer. No, sir; they did not give the names. If you will observe, in that letter of Mr. Dickinson, he speaks of seventy-five men killed, but he does not give me the names even of those two men who were at that time wounded, and who, he says in a postscript, had died. Question. This information is from private sources by letter to you? Answer. Yes, sir; though some of the men are public men. Questiou. You say these murders have occurred since reconstruction, from 1868 to i871? Answer. Yes, sir; I am very certain that I went under rather than over the mark. Question. That is your opinion? Answer. Yes, sir.

Page  225 FLORIDA-SUB-COMMITTEE. 225 JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA, Novemnber 13, 1871. LEMUEL WILSON recalled. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. I desire to ask you what you know in regard to disorders in Lake City Answer. My knowledge of any disorders that occurred there arises from what I heard when on the grand jury. Question. State your information as briefly and succinctly as you can. Answer. There was a great deal of confused testimony that I cannot distinctly remember; but the material facts that impressed me — Question. Endeavor to state the