The answer to William Penn Quaker, his book, entituled, The new witnesses proved old hereticks Wherein he is proved to be an ignotant [sic] spater-brain'd Quaker, who knows no more what the true God is, nor his secret decrees, then one of his coach-horses doth, nor so much; for the oxe knoweth his owner, and the ass his masters scrip, but Penn doth not know his maker, as is manifest by the Scriptures, which may inform the reader, if he mind the interpretation of Scripture in the discourse following. I. That God was in the forme, image and likeness of mans bodily shape, as well as his soul from eternity. ... VIII. What is meant by the armour of God, the wilderness, and the wilde beasts I fought with in the wilderness. / By Lodowick Muggleton.

CHAP. V. (Book 5)

The second Point is, That God did not create the Heavens and the Earth out of nothing, but the substance of Earth and Matter was from Eternity.

This Penn saith is inconsistent with Scripture, he will prove; I desire the Reader to mind•• how weakly and poorly he doth pr••ve what he saith, and what silly ignorant Arguments be a l••••g••th against Earth and Matter b••ing eternal; his proof he gives against it is not worth the trouble to Answer; I am ashamed, that you being a learned man, should se•• Pen to paper and write no better; Reply. To satisfie the people I do abhor to answer it, but that the Quakers will boast and say, that Muggleton was not able to Answer Penns book, it was so deep a learned Piece, written by learned Penn the Quaker; upon this Account I must say something to it.

I shall set down all his p••oofs of Scripture, and the chief Ar∣guments he brings that is of any concernme••t, to prove that this opinion of Earth and Matter, how it should be inconsistent with Scripture to be eterna••.

Penns first proof of Scriptu••e is Gen 1••1.2, In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth, and the Earth was without forme and void. Penns Argument to this, page 12. saith he, If they were created bef••re they were formed, as saith the place, then Creation and formation are not one and the same thing, and saith he, either the Au∣thority of Scriptures must be denied, or else Creation is first a bringing forth of the Chaos or rude substance. Secondly, Penn page 13. quotes Isaiah 48.22, 23. Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, I am he, I am the first, and also am the last, my Hand also bas laid the Foun∣dation of the Earth: Penns Argument upon these words, saith he, Wherefore thus I argue, If God was before so much as the foundation of

the Earth was laid, then was neither the Earth nor Foundation of it from Eternity with God,— but the text affirms, that God was first or before the very foundation was ever laid.

Thirdly, Penn quot••s John 1.••, 13. And the Word was God, all things were made by him s Penns Argument to th s, sa••th he, If all things were made by him then, b••th Heaven and Earth. because they are part of all things were made by him,- but the place saith, all things or whatever has being were made by him, therefore all co-eternal of Earth or Heaven with the Everlasting God is excluded and re∣fu••ed.

Fourthly, Penns Argument to conclude this Head; For by him are all things created, and he is before all things, and by him all things consist, Col. 1.16, 17. And thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth, and the He••vens are the works of thy hands, Heb. 1.10. And in page 14. Penn saith, Nor can their idle shift any way secure t••em from t••e dint of those Scri∣ptures, nor the Arguments built upon them, viz maki••g is fa∣shioning; so God made the Heavens and the ••••rt••, as a Carpen∣ter makes a Door or a Chest; he fashi••ns it ••f w••od, but he does not make the wood: Penn saith, •• distinctio•• fi••ter for Be••∣lam then men pre••ending to b•• in their wits: and saith he, can they think, that it was harder to Almighty God to create out of no∣thing the more inanimate or lifeless part of Heaven and Earth, then to compose that variety of excellent creatures, and to infuse that great spirit and soul, by which they are refectively instincted or acted. These are his own and the most considerable Argu∣ments that Penn brings against this point, to shew how inconsist∣ent it is with Scripture, for he never gives any interpretation nor meaning of any Scripture he quotes; The Reader may consider the strength of Penns Arguments, and see whether they be satis∣factory to the mind of man, that God created this vast Earth and great waters of nothing, if not, then earth and wat••rs must needs be eternal; but those that are satisfied with his Arguments let

them keep to it, I shall not disswade them from it, only I shall give Answer and prove to the contrary by Scripture, that earth and waters was eternal, as followeth.

Answer, Gen. 1.1, 2. In the beginning God created the Heaven and the Earth, ver. 2. And the earth was without forme and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the Waters. Minde Reader, here it was that I said unto Penn that Moses set the cart before the horse, that is, he set that first which should have been last, and the last first, as it was a common thing for Prophets and Christ himself, to things that were Acted last to speak of them first; it is an ex∣pression Christ useth often, that the first shall be last and the last first, as may be exp rienced in that Parable, Mat. 20.8. so when even was come, the ••••rd of the Vineyard saith unto the Stew∣ard, call the Labour••rs, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first; here we see, he that had wrought but one hour in the day was paid his wages first of all, and he that had wrought twelve houres that was first hired, was paid his wages last of all, and had no more but his penny neither; as in ver. 16. this Parable did relare to the Jews that were first hired o•• chosen of God to work in the Vineyard of Gods Worship, set up by his Steward Moses, which people had wrought in the Vineyard of Gods Worship many hundred years, which was twelve hours in the day, and he that wrought but one hour in the day was the Gentiles, and by believing in Christ in the last houre of the day, when Christ was upon earth, they received their peny of Peace, and assurance of everlasting life in themselves, by working one houre in the Vineyard of faith, so that the Iews that had wrought twelve hours in the day und••r Moses Law did murmure, that the Gentiles that wrought but one houre in the day in believing in Christ that was now come, that they should receive the penny of everlasting life first, and so easi••y, that had done so little wo••k for it, nothing but to believe; I sp ak t••is on••y by the way, to shew that the S••••iptures are full of such expressions, that the first shall be last and the last fi••st.

So it was by Moses, he spake that first that should have bin spoken last; where he saith, in the beginning God created the Heaven and the Earth; Now, if Moses had said, In the begin∣n••ng the Earth was without forme and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep, and that the Spirit of God moved up∣on the face of the waters; and that God created out of this dead sensless earth and waters the heaven and the earth, into this ex∣cellent order as we see, as was the true meaning of Moses, then Penn would never have made this Objection; but because Moses spake that first which should have bin spoken last, according to the rule of Reason, but not by the rule of faith, which by the rule of Reason is like setting the cart befo••e the horse, as Moses doth in several other places as well as this, as I could name, but it would be too tedious; and this manner of sayings, it hath blind∣ed the eyes of the seed of the Serpent, such as Penn the Quaker is that they might not understand the Scrip••ures, so that this place of Scripture doth no ways prove that G••d gave a b••ing to those great substances of earth and water.

For the words following doth make it appear, that Earth and Water was eternal in their substance and b••ing, in these words, And the earth was without forme and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep: The meaning is, that the earth was covered with water, so that it could not be se••n by God him••elf, therefore said to be void, so that the earth was under the waters eternally, but void of any sight, either to God himself▪ or Angels, or any other celestial creature in heaven above b••fore this World was made; likewise the substance of earth that lay eternally hid under the waters, was void of any forme or vertue; but when Gods Spirit had moved upon the deep waters, and caused them to be gathered together in one place, and let the dry land appear, and it was so, as may be seen, ver. 9. Then did God create the Earth. Minde, God created out of the substance of matter that was a et••rnal; He cre∣ated light, ver. 3. And God said, Let there be light, and there was light. Now this light was made of something, God did not make light

of nothing; he made light of those deep waters that had dark∣ne••s upon the face of it eternally, until Gods Spirit moved upon the face of the waters, and made light out of that substance of water, that was eternally dark b••fore.

Ver. 4. God saw the light that it was good, and God divided the light from the darkness; that is, that part of the dark wate••s, which he by the word of his Power had made l••ght; he divid••d or set it a∣part from the dark waters as a thing fin••shed, ver. 5. And God called that ••e••e of work which he had finished light day, and that part of the waters that was not yet finish••d he called night, And the Evening and the Morning were the fi••st day; This w••s Gods first days work, ver. 6. And God said, let there be a Firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters, ver. 7. And God made the Firmament, and divided the waters which were under the Firmament from the Waters above the Firmament, and it was so.

Here Go•• created by th•• Word of his Power the Firmament out of another part of t••ose deep dark w••ters, whose substance was eternal, ver. 8. And G••d cal••ed the Firmament Heaven, and the Ev••ning and the Morning were the second day: Minde Reader, God hath bin two days making the light and the Firma∣ment of Heaven out ••f the water, ••r substance of water, before the earth or d••y land did app••ar: so that God did n••t create the Earth bef••r•• the Earth di••appear, though Moses is pleased to set it in the first pl••c, yet the Cr••ation of the Earth was Gods third days work, as may be seen ver 9. And G••d said, Let the Wa∣ters under the Heaven be gathered unto one place, and let the dry Land appear, and it was so, ver. 10. And God called t••e ••ry land Earth, and the gathering together of the Wat••rs cal••ed he Seas, And God saw that it was good, ver. 11. And God said, Let the Earth bring forth Grass, the Herb yielding seed, and the fruit•• tree yi••l••ing fruit after his kinde, whose seed is in it s••lf upon the Earth, and it was so.