A controversy between the Quakers & bishops, occasioned by the bishops summoning them to their courts, and calling them in question for matters of religion: Contrary to the practice of Christ and the Apostles, who never forced any about religion and worship: and contrary to the Kings promises, speeches and declarations, which saith, no man shall be disquieted for different opinions in matters of religion, they living peaceably under the government; which the Quakers do, and no man can charge them to the contrary. Together with several religious reasons recorded concerning the conscientious non-conformity of the Quakers, to those things that are by the bishops courts imposed upon them.

Righteous and Religions Reasons grounded upon Scripture Arguments, recorded and returned by way of Reply to the Bishops Officers, con∣cerning the conscientious non-conformity of the People of God, for which they are now called in question, and cited in that called a Spiritual Court; and particularly concern∣ing their appearance upon citations before Joseph Cradock, the 24. day of the 8 Month 1663. in the Parish publique Meeting-place at Ulverstone.

NOw the ground of proceedings was doubtful in the first place, being but the negative Oath of those called Church-Wardens, concerning a thing they neither heard, nor saw; so that no plain proof can be produced against any, or all the People called Quakers, whether they were at the place appointed for publique Worship, not unless they will accuse or excuse themselves, which would appear ridiculous, and unreasonable, and contrary to the known Laws of England, both Civil and Ecclesiastical, (so called) for any to accuse themselves in any case, neither do we know that any Bishop, Chancelor, Commissary, Vicar, or Vicar General, hath any power, either under pretence of Letters Pattents under the great Seal of England, or otherwise, to administer an Oath ex Officio, to examine any man or woman or woman upon Inter∣rogatories, whereby he, she, or they, shall any wayes accuse them∣selves; and therefore we shall not willingly answer to any thing contrary to Law, Reason, Religion and Righteousnesse, to our own prejudice, upon your importunity, under pretence of Legal Plea, when nothing can be proved against us.

Neverthelesse, least any should think that no Reason can be alledged, for refusing to come to the Parochal, or Parish-Chur∣ches, as they are called; we have for satisfaction to the simpler

sort of People, set down something by way of Reply, to this fol∣lowing general Question, so frequently propounded to the People called Quakers, and others, the day above mentioned, (to wit)

Quest. What is the Reason that you do not come to the place ap∣pointed for publique Worship, to hear Divine-Service, and to be pre∣sent at the performance of several Offices, there to be performed ac∣cording to His Majestyes Laws, &c.

Answ. 1. We understand the place prefixed and intended, is that Church or Temple made with hands; and we know, that God who made the world, and all things in it, dwelleth not in Temples made with hands; and that is one Reason why we come not to it, because God dwelleth not there.

Secondly, The Lord hath established the Mountain of his House in the top of the Mountains; therefore neither at Jerusa∣lem, not in Samaria's Mountain, nor in Temples made with hands, is the places where men ought to worship, nor in the Jews Sy∣nagogues, nor in the Ephesians Temple Diana, nor in the old Mass Houses; but the hour cometh, and now is, in which the true Chri∣stians do worship the Father in Spirit and in Truth, and they are the Circumcision that worships God in the Spirit. And this was the practice of the Primitive Christians, who denyed the Jews Synagogues, and Ordinances, although commanded of God.

Thirdly, The Lord reproved Israel when she had forgotten her Maker, and began to build Temples, saying, What House will you build for me, or where is the place of my Rest? Is not the Hea∣vens my Throne, and the Earth my Foot-stool? yet will I look to this man that is humble, and of a contrite heart, that trembleth at my Word, and with this man will I dwell. And he hath promised that his Tabernacle shall be with men in the dayes of the New Covenant, saying, I'le dwell in them, and walk in them, and I'le be a Father unto them, and they shall be my Sons and Daughters, saith the Lord God Allmighty. And these promises we witness ful∣filled; therefore we cannot be limited to time or place; for wheresoever two or three are gathered together in the name of the Lord, he is present in the midst of them.

Fourthly, The manner of receiving in, or making Members of your Church, is not agreeable to the practise of the Primitive Christians, as may thus appear; they were baptized by one Spirit,

into one Body, but you baptize Infants by Tradition, for which there is no president in the Scriptures; for we do not read of any Fonts they had, or signing Children with the sign of the Cross in their Fore-heads, nor no Godfathers nor Godmothers; but since we came to years of discretion, we see all these Ordinances to be of the Popes invention, and therefore we come not to these Churches as Members of them.

Fifthly, Whatsoever is not of faith, is sin. And therefore every man ought to be fully perswaded in his own mind in matters of Religion, & the Worship of God; and we do not believe that God requires it at our hands, to command worship in those Temples made with hands; neither do we believe that what is there pra∣ctised, is agreeable to the declared Will of God; and therefore we refuse to joyn in Worship with them, who worship the un∣known God ignorantly.

Sixthly, The Masters of those Assemblies that serves the Cure so called, are nor called, and appointed for that work as the Ministers of Christ was in the Churches of the Christians; there∣fore we do not own their Ministry, nor joyn with them in their Worship. Christs Ministers had their call and command from him to go and teach all Nations; these have their call from men to a certain place; Christs Ministers preached that which they received by the Revelation of Jesus; and they gave freely, as they had received; these preacheth that which they receive from other men, and Authors, and the writings of antient Fathers, and they sell it for money, and hath a certain Sallery for their work, some by the day, and some by the year; and where people are poor, and can advance but little towards maintaining a Priest, there are few or none called thither, but where there is a fat Benefice there is striving to be the Minister of such a place, and many drunken Priests that never heard the voyce of God, can come at the call of earthly Angels; and these evils with many others have we seen, therefore we cannot conform to their Religion and Wor∣ship, whose hearts are exercised with such covetous practises.

Seventhly, They teach fear towards God by the Traditions and Precepts of men, and the Lord hath said, In vain do they worship, whose fear towards me is taught by the Precepts of men; and therefore we cannot joyn in Worship with them, who are

thus taught; for the Lord is our Teacher, which can never be re∣moved into a Corner.

Eighthly, Both Priest and People saith, They erre, and stray from the ways of God, like lost sheep; but since you left us, we are turn∣ed to the chief Shepherd and Bishop of our Souls; and therefore we cannot erre, nor go astray, nor follow the multitude to do evil, for we are of that little Flock that have heard the voice of the good Shepherd, and a stranger we cannot, nor will not follow; neither have we any need now to hear the Hireling, for when he seeth the Wolf he fleeth, and leaveth the Flock, because he is an Hireling; having had so large experience of the deceit and hypo∣crifie of these crafts-men, that teach for hire, and divine for mo∣ney, and flee for fear when any danger approacheth; therefore we deny their Church and Ministry, and turn from them to him who carries his Lambs in his arms, and gently leads them that are with young.

Ninthly, Both the Priest, and the whole Congregation, saith, There is no health in them; if so, we have good reason to refrain their company for fear of catching a bad disease; for its prudence in times of the Plague, for people to keep far from the Pest-house; and can any blame them, whose diseases are healed, to refrain the company of them that are infected, and hath no health in them?

Tenthly, We are commanded in Scripture to with-draw from every brother that walks disorderly; and we know many that walk disorderly frequents these places appointed for publique Wor∣ship, out of Custome, Tradition, and for fear of punishment; and because of that great mixture of disorderly walkers, we have rea∣son to withdraw from those places; for they that goeth, leaveth undone that which they ought to do, and doth that which they ought not to do, and we can do no worse, if we never come more among them; and they confesse themselves to be miserable offen∣ders against Gods holy Laws, so that we account it better to wor∣ship elsewhere, contrary to mans Law, than to come among you to break or offend against Gods Law.

Eleventhly, We have the Promise and Word of a King, in several Speeches and Declarations, That we shall not be disquieted, disturbed, molested, or called in question for our dif∣ference of opinion in matters of Religion, while we behave and

demean our selves civilly under the Government, and while we do not disturb the peace of the Nation; so it being our declared and known Principle, to live peaceably and demean our selves ci∣villy under the Government; therefore we perform our devoti∣ons towards God, according to the full perswasion of our minds, and as we are guided by the Spirit of the Lord; and having some indulgence from the King for so doing, therefore we joyn not with you in your will-worship.

Twelfthly, We are not convinced that the places for publique worship, are for that purpose appointed of God, or by command from God; and therefore we come not to them, nor shall not, untill we be so convinced by solid Reasons, and Scripture proof; for all that own those places for Churches, proves turn-coats, and turns with every wind of Doctrine, and to every Government that is uppermost in the Nation, for fear of persecution.

Thirteenthly, We know not that the Law by which, we are en∣joyned to come to these places, is grounded upon, and agreeable with the Law of God; and therefore unlesse this be proved to the convincing of us, that it is the Lords requiring, we are not careful to answer you in this matter.

Fourteenthly, We do not believe that the Bishops Courts are set up or holden by Divine Authority, or that there are competent Judges in them of spiritual transgressions, seeing the Lord hath committed all Judgement unto the Son, and he is the fittest to judge in all cases of conscience.

Fifteeenthly, We have no mention made in the holy Scriptures of any Ecclesiastical or Spiritual Courts, or Lord Bishops, or that Timothy or Titus had either Courts, Commissaries, or Parrators; or that they cited any of the unbelieving Jews or Gentiles, for non-conformity to the Christian-Religion; or that they used any compulsion to force people to their faith, but in meeknesse instru∣cted them that did oppose, until God brought them to the know∣ledge of the truth; neither do we see president in Scripture for your present practise of persecution about Religion; therefore we cannot conform to your injunctions, which are not agreeable to the Scriptures of Truth.

Sixteenthly, We are perswaded that you do not so much en∣deavour to bring us into conformity to your way, out of your zeal

to it, as the right way and worship of God, as out of State-Policy or for self-ends, that your Ecclesiastical Officers may make a Mar∣ket to enrich themselves upon the ruines of Religious People, that out of tendernesse of Conscience, cannot conform to your Worship and Ordinances.

Seventeenthly, We do not own your Order and Discipline, to be the Order and Discipline of the Church of Christ, because it was prevailed against, and utterly extinguished in this Nation; and the Scotish Directory, and Presbyterian Government set up in its place neer 20 years; and yet your zeal led few or none of you to suffer imprisonment singly upon the account of your Re∣ligion.

Eighteenthly, We believe your Church is not the Church of Christ, because it hath been prevailed against; for the Church of Christ cannot be prevailed against, neither by the power nor policy of any Sect or Schism whatsoever for it hath such a firm foundation, that the Gates of Hell cannot prevail against it: And we are Members of this Church; therefore we cannot come to yours, because it will not stand when the floods cometh, and the rain descends, being builded like a house upon the sand.

Nineteenthly, We do not understand, that either the true power or form of godlinesse, or the true practise of Christianity appears among you, or is approved of by you, and therefore we turn away from you, and can have no fellowship with you in your worship.

20. You have neither convinced us by sound Doctrine, nor good Conversation, that your Ministers are the Ministers of Christ, and their Doctrine, the Doctrine of Christ, and their Pra∣ctise, the Practise of Gospel Ministers, but the contrary, and therefore we turn away from you, and cannot joyn with you in worship.

21. Because as appears to us you trust in man, and make flesh your arme, and make more use of the Magistrates power to pro∣tect you in the way of your worship, than of the power of God; and of an outward Law to compel people to your Religion, than of sound Doctrine, and good Conversation to convince the gain-say∣ers; and therefore we cannot deny the true Religion, and turn to you for fear of persecution.

22. Because the hand writing of Ordinances is blotted out, which was in force in the first Covenant, and a better Covenant come; therefore we cannot be subject to Ordinances of Divine Service; for the Jews had a Law of Commandments, which made not the commers thereunto perfect, as pertaining to the Consci∣ence; they had a worldly Sanctuary, and Ordinances of Divine Service, imposed upon them, until the time of Reformation. But we are not under the Law, but under Grace: Therefore not sub∣ject to Ordinances of men in Religious and spiritual things. And whereas that Scripture was so often urged to the people called Quakers, and others, that appeared upon suspition of non-Con∣formity, Be subject to every Ordinance of man for the Lords sake, &c. To this we answer, We are subject for the Lords sake to every Ordinance of man, according to the true intent of the Apostle in that place, and according to the practice of him that spake those words; but we understand the Apostle speaks of civil things, and in such cases we are subject, and that for Conscience sake: As may thus appear.

First, We are subject to all such Laws and Ordinances of man, as are agreeable with, and grounded upon the Royal Law of God, which are for the preservation of personal proprieties, as Life, Liberty, and Estates.

Secondly, We are subject to all Ordinances and Laws, that are for the punishment of evil doers, and the praise of them that do well: And our souls is subject to the Higher Power, not for wrath or fear of punishment, but of a ready mind, and for Conscience sake.

Thirdly, No man can charge the people called Quakers with the actual transgression of the Laws made in Cases of High Trea∣son, Petty Treason, or misprision of Treason; and therefore we are subject to all such Ordinances of man, for the Lords sake.

Fourthly, We are no transgressors of, therefore one with, and subject to all Laws and Ordinances of man made in Cases of Mur∣der, Felony, Fighting, Fraud, and all other misdemeanours what∣soever.

Fifthly, We are a peaceable people, and so subject to all Laws and Ordinances of man, made against Routs, Riots, Duels, and such provocations to wrath and envy.

Sixthly, We are no transgressors against, therefore subject to, all Laws and Ordinances of man made against Rapes, Adultery, Fornication, and Uncleanness of all sorts.

Seventhly, We are one with, and so subject to all Laws and Or∣dinances of man made against Swearing and Drunkenness, and all manner of Profaness whatsoever.

Eighthly, We subject to all Laws and Ordinances of man made concerning Debtor and Creditor, that relates to the recovery of all just Debts.

Ninthly, We do submit to all Laws and Ordinances of man that relate to the payment of Tribute, Taxations, Custom, Excise, Subsidy money, and all things of this nature, as becometh Saints and Subjects to Superiours. And concerning these things, no man can justly accuse the people called Quakers; and therefore we may in reason say as the Apostle did, For this cause pay we tri∣bute, that under them we may live a peaceable life in all godlinesse and honesty, as becometh Saints and true Christians.

Tenthly, VVe do not actually resist, but are subject to all Laws and Ordinances of man, as is manifested upon all occasions, either by our active or passive obedience: And hereby it may appear to all people, that we are subject to every Ordinance of man, for the Lords sake. And if we be called in question for any thing that can be accounted contempt of any Ordinance of man, it is concerning the Law and VVorship of the living God; and for our non-Conformity in such cases we are compassed about with a cloud of true and faithful VVitnesses, whose sufferings and faithfulness is left as a President unto us, upon whom the ends of the world are come. And if the people called Quakers cannot for Conscience sake conform to all Ordinances made by man in matters relating to Religion and the VVorship of God, they have examples and presidents from their Predecessors, that could nei∣ther receive the mark of the Beast in their Forheads, nor in their right hands; who had the tryals of cruel mockings, yea moreover, bonds and imprisonments for the Testimony which they held; and the same God to plead their Cause, that said, Touch not mine anoyn∣ted, do my Prophets no harm; and who said, Saul, Saul, why perse∣cutest thou me? And may not the people of God now be justified of him in the transgression of mans Ordinances, that are neither

grounded upon, nor agreeable to the Law and Ordinance of God.

Was it an offence against God or his Law, that the Jewes scat∣tered in all the Provinces of King Ahasuerus his Dominions, was not conformable to the Laws and Ordinances of the King? And doth our Law condemn them for their practice? and are they not justified both of God and good men, for their faithfulness and per∣severance in times of persecution? And was not their adversary that wicked Haman, justly judged and condemned for procu∣ring an Edict against them, to have destroyed them because of their difference in Opinion or perswasion in matters of Religion and VVorship? And did not Shadrach, Meshech, and Abedne∣go disobey an Ordinance of man, when they would not bow to the Image that Nebuchadnezar the King of Babylon had set up? And were they not justified of God and good men for their faithful∣ness; and preserved from the violence of that fire, which made the Executioners of the penalty enjoyned by that Ordinance, the dreadful examples of Gods indignation and wrath? Did not Da∣niel disobey an Ordinance of man, and an unalterable Decree, that none should make a prayer or supplication for thirty dayes to any God or man, but unto the King? And yet he prayed as at other times, and made supplication three times a day, his window being open towards Jerusalem: And was he not justified of God and good men for his faithfulness to God? And did not the Lord stop the mouths of hungry Lyons, and reserve their wrath for the pu∣nishment of Daniels persecutors in their legal prosecution of the penalty enjoyned by that Ordinance of man, which Daniel would not submit unto? And did not the Apostles Peter and John trans∣gress and break an Ordinance of men in Authority, when they would not forbear speaking in the Name of Jesus? And whether it is better to obey God or man, let our adversaries and persecu∣ters judge. And did not all those Episcopal Protestant Martyrs in the dayes of Queen Mary, suffer for denying the Sacrament of the Altar, and for disobeying other Ordinances of men made in relation to Religion and VVorship? And are they not now justi∣fied both of God and good men for their faithfulness? And is not their sufferings accounted persecution for righteousnesse sake? And if we suffer Bonds, Imprisonments, or the spoyling of our

Goods, on the like account, concerning the Law and VVorship of the living God, our sufferings are for righteousness sake, and therefore we commit our righteous Cause to the Lord in well-doing, as unto a faithfull Creator.

And this is recorded for the Information of such as have hated us without a cause, to prevent persecution for the future, or at least to leave them without an excuse, when the Lord maketh inquisi∣tion for the blood of all the Prophets and righteous men that have suffered for Conscience sake, since the dayes of righteous Abel, unto this very day. And as for them that injure us ignorantly, we can heartily say, Father forgive them, they know not what they do.

Let the Bishops, Chancelors, Commissaries, Parish-Priests, and all, or any of their Ecclesiastical Officers, receive this with meekness, and peruse it with patience, and read it with under∣standing: And if a reply can be returned to convince us that your VVay, VVorship, and Religion, is the Lords requirings, contrary to all the Reasons here rendred; then deliver it to any of the people called Quakers, or convay it with care to the hand of

Thomas Salthouse.

VVritten the 2. day of the 9. mon. 1663.

THE END.