The lavvfulnes of hearing the publick ministers of the Church of England proved, by Mr. Philip Nye and Mr. John Robinson, two eminent Congregational divines. Together with the judgment of Dr. Goodwin, Dr. Owen, and other independents, as well ancient as modern, concerning forms of prayer, parish-churches, and communion with them: and the judgment of other nonconformists about kneeling at the sacrament.

ADVERTISEMENT.

TO stop the Mouths of many, especially those Ministers that continually from Press and Pulpit do maliciously, as well as ignorantly, tell the People that the Dissenters (especially Independents and Anabaptists) do act contrary to their own Principles, in Communicating sometimes with the Church of Eng∣land; and that they do so meerly to qualifie themselves for an Office, to serve a Turn (as they spitefully phrase it) or to save themselves from the penal Laws, I have here inserted in what follows, the Opinion not only of the Independents, but even the Brownists themselves, many years since about this matter.

VIZ. A TREATISE of the Lawfulness of Hearing the Publick Ministers in the Church of England.

Penned by that Learned and Reverend Divine, Mr. JOHN ROBINSON, late Pastor to the English Church of God at Leyden: Printed there in the Year 1634, and now published for Publick Satisfaction.

AS they that affect alienation from others, make their differences as great, and the adverse Opinion or Practice as odious as they can; thereby to further their desired victory over them, and to harden themselves, and their side against them: So on the contrary, they, who desire peace and accord, both interpret things in the best part that reasonably they can, and seek how and where they may find any lawful door of entry into accord and agreement with others. Of which latter number I profess my self (by the Grace of God) both a Companion and Guide: specially in regard of my Christi∣an Country-men, to whom God hath tied me in so many inviolable bonds: accounting it a Cross, that I am in any particular compelled to dissent from them; but a benefit, and matter of rejoycing, when I

can, in any thing with good a Conscience unite with them, in matter, if not in manner; or, where it may be, in both. And this Affection, the Lord and my Conscience are my Witnesses, I have always nourish∣ed in my Breast, even when I seemed furthest drawn from them. And so all that have taken knowledg of my Course can testifie with me, and how I have still opposed in others, and repressed in mine own (to my power) all sower zeal against, and peremptory rejection of such, as whose Grace: challenged better use and respect from all Christians.

And in testimony of mine affection this way, and for the freeing of mine own Conscience, and information of other Mens, I have penned this Discourse, tending to prove the hea••••ng of the Word of God preached by the Mi••isters ••f the Church of Engl••••d, 〈…〉〈…〉……n and apply the Do∣ctrins of 〈…〉〈…〉 ……d in cases necessary for all, of all Sec••s or sorts of Ch〈8 letters〉〈8 letters〉 〈◊〉〈◊〉 ……ity and occasion of so doing: though sequestring themselv•••• 〈◊〉〈◊〉 ••ll C••••••••nion with the Hierar∣chical Order there established.

Three sorts of opposites I make account to meet withal. The first of them, who truly desire, and carefully endeavour to have their whole course both in Religion, and otherwise, framed by the holy and right Zeal of God's Word, either for their confirmation in the Truth; or Reformation, wherein, through humane frailty they step aside. And unto them especially I direct this my Discourse: begging at his hands who is the Father of Lights, and from whom cometh down every good and perfect Gift, for them, as for my self, that as he hath given us to set our Faces towards Heaven, and to seek him with the whole Heart, so he would not suffer us to wander from his Commandments, to the right hand or to the left.

A second sort is of them, whose tender and scrupulous Conscience, makes them fearful, and jealous of every thing, which hath in it the least appearance of evil; lest coming too near it, they be defiled by it, one way or other. This their godly Zeal, and tenderness of Heart is to be loved of all Men, and cherished by all good means. Only such are to be intreated, for their own good, to take knowledge of a distincti∣on most useful for their direction, in things lawful in their kind, and good in their right use. Of which some are only naturally good in their kind, but not simply commanded of God, as to get, and keep the riches and credit of the World; to enjoy outward Peace, or other bodily Comfort. Others are morally good in their kind, and command∣ed of God, as to hear the Word of God, obey the Magistrate, and the like. Now in things of the former sort, it is very requisit (considering both their Nature and ours) that we keep a jealous Eye, and strait

Hand over our selves, and our ways. For them, they are not in their kind enjoyed as the other: neither do the Scriptures any where require of Men, to be rich, or the like: as they do to hear Gods Word, obey Authority, &c. And for our selves we are prone, and in danger to over-strain for the getting and enjoying of them, as being naturally pleasing good things. So as if out of a godly jealousie over our Hearts towards them, we keep not our selves from going too near the side, for the getting or keeping of them; we shall by one storm of Temp∣tation or other, be blown into the ditch of Sin and Destruction. But now, for the practice and performance of Duties simply moral, and commanded in their kind, as is the hearing of God's Word, specially by God's People, we ought to strain to the uttermost, and to go as near the wind as may be; seeing nothing but apparent Sin in the way can excuse the withdrawing from it, when occasion of enjoying it is offered. O that there were not to be found some, who being very scrupulous of coming near to any thing amiss in outward Ordinances, or to any per∣son failing in them; yet make no scruple of complying, and conform∣ing with the World so far in the eager pursuit of Worldly Profits, im∣moderate use of worldly Delights, and fulfilling the Lusts of the World and Flesh dwelling in them, as that there appears scarce an hair's-breadth of difference between them, and meer Worldlings which know not God. Which latter Evils are both worse in themselves, as being expresly condemned by the Law of God, and Light of Nature; and more odious in the persons, as being more personal, free, and volun∣tary than those in the other, to which they are carried by the violent Current of the Times.

A third sort of Opposits I make account to meet with, more untracta∣ble than the former, and more vehemently bent against the things pro∣pounded by me, out of prejudice and passion, than the other by scruple of Conscience, or shew of Reason. To them I can hardly say any thing; (it not being their manner to reade, or willingly to hear that which crosseth their prejudices) yet something I must say touching them, out of the woful experience of many years taken of them, though not much (I thank the Lord) amongst them unto whom I have ministred.

Some of these I have found carried with so excessive admiration of some former Guides in their course, as they think it half Heresy to call into question any of their Determinations, or Practices. We must not think that only the Pharisees of old, or Papists of later times, are su∣perstitiously addicted to the Tradition of the Elders, and Authority of the Church. In all Sects there are divers (especially of the weaker sort, who being the less real in their conceptions, are the more personal) that

rather chuse to follow the path of blind Tradition, if beaten by some such fore-goers as they admire, than the right way of God's Word by others, to be shewed them afterwards.

Some again are as much addicted to themselves as the former to o∣others; conceiving in effect, though they will not profess it, the same of their own heads, which the Papists do of their Head the Pope, (viz.) that they cannot erre, or be deceived: and this specially in such mat∣ters as for which they have suffered troubles and afflictions formerly; and so having bought them dear, they value them highly. But it is too Merchant-like to strive to over-sell a thing, which we have formerly over-bought: We must buy the Truth, and sell it not at any rate; but must account nothing either true or good, according to the valuation which we have set upon it, but God.

There is also a third sort highly advancing a kind of privative Good∣ness and Religion; and who bend their force rather to the weakning of other Men in their courses, than to the building up of themselves in their own; and in truth, rather to separation from Men not only in evil, but even in that which is good, for some other evil conceived in them, than to Union with God and his People in his holy Ordinances: and half imagining that they draw near enough to God, if they can withdraw far enough from other Men. Great Zeal they have against the false Church, Ministry and Worship so being, or by them conceived so to be; and against any appearing evil in the true, but little for that which is true and good, as their practice manifests: But Evil is as con∣trary to Evil, as Good is to Evil; and so is that Zeal plainly carnal, which carries a Man further against Evil, than for Good; seeing no Evil is so evil, as Good is good.

Fourthly; There are some to be found so sowred with moodiness and discontentment, as they become unsociable, and almost Lukanthropoi; Werewolfs, as they speak; if they see nothing lamentable, they are rea∣dy to lament: if they take contentment in any, it is in them alone whom they find discontented: if they reade any Books, they are only Invec∣tives, especially against Publick States, and their Governours. All things tending to accord and union any manner of way, are unwelcome unto them. They have their Portion in Ishmael's Blessing, Gen. 16.12.

Lastly; There want not some, who (as Jehu in his fierce marching, covered his Ambition, Cruelty, and Zeal for his own House, under pre∣text of Zeal for God's) think to cover and palliate their both grosser, and more proper and personal Corruptions, under a furious March, not only against the Failings, but the Persons also failing, of Infirmity in mat∣ters of Church-Order and Ordinances. Who if they were well acquainted,

and duly affected with their own, both more voluntary, and greater Sins, would slack their Jehu's Peace, yea turn their Course, tho not to walk with others in Evil (which God forbid) yet to ap∣ply and accommodate themselves unto them, in that which is good, so far as possibly they could observe any way by the Lord opened unto them. I could instance in, and name divers particular Persons mon∣strously grown out of kind, this way. But that Course I leave unto them, who rather desire the disgracing, than the bettering of them against whom they deal: Or perhaps conceive in their leavened Hearts that there is no other way of bettering, specially Persons of mean Condition, than by disgracing them. But let not my Soul come in their Secret, in whose Habitations are such Instruments of Cruelty. Gen. 49.5, 6.

These things thus premised, the Objections follow, which I have either heard from others, or can conceive of my self most colourable against the Practice by me propounded. And they are of two sorts: Some of them are framed upon Supposition, that the Ministers in that Church are in themselves lawful, and of God: but now yet to be heard by reason of the Abuses, and Evils to be found in their Ministrations. Others withdraw herein (and those the more) upon the contrary Supposition: To wit, that the very Order and Constitution of that Church and Ministry is Papal, and unlawful. Now the Examination of the Grounds of the one or other I will not in this place meddle with: but (though both cannot be true) will for the satisfying of the with∣drawers on both Parts, grant for the present, to either Part their Ground, and so examine distinctly what Exceptions they can or do build thereupon.

But first, for the former: Supposing a Church and the Ministry there∣of essentially lawful, it cannot but be lawful for the Members of other Churches in general Union and Association with it, to communicate therewith, in things lawful, and lawfully done: seeing the end of Union is Communion. God hath in vain united Persons, and States to∣gether, if they may in nothing communicate together. But he who would have us receive the weak in Faith, whom God hath received, would not have us refuse the Fellowship of Churches in that which is good, for any Weakness in them, of one sort or other. And this we have so plainly, and plentifully commended unto us both by the Prophets, yea, by Christ himself, in the Jewish Church; and Apostles, and Apo∣stolical Men in the first Christian Churches; in which many Errors, and Evils of all kinds were more than manifest: and the same oft-times both so far spread, and deeply rooted, as the reforming of them was rather to be wished, than hoped for: As that no place is

left for doubting in that case by any, who desire to follow their holy Steps in Faith towards God, and Charity towards Men, and effectual Desire of their own Edification.

The Objections of the former sort follow.

Object. 1. There is danger of being seduced, and misled by the Errors taught in the Assemblies.

Answ. 1. We must not lose the Benefit of many main Truths taught, for danger of some few Errors, specially in lesser matters. This were to fear the Devil, more than to trust God. 2. There were in the Jewish Church in Christ's time, and in divers of the Apostolical Churches afterwards, more and greater Errors taught, than are in any, or all the Churches in England; of which also there are not a few; which if their Ministers did as fully and faithfully teach and practise all Truths, as they keep themselves carefully from Errors, might compare in this Business, with any reformed Church in Europe. 3. This Ex∣ception hath its weight against the hearing of Priests and Jesuits, spe∣cially by the weaker sort, and less able to discern of things that differ: But not against many Ministers of the Church of England.

Object. 2. He that in any thing partakes with that Church in which Sins known are suffered unreformed, partakes in all the Sins of that Church: as he that swears by the Altar, swears by the Offerings upon it which it sanctifies, Mat. 23.19, 20.

Answ. I partake not in the Sins of any, how great or manifest so∣ever the Sins be, or how near unto me soever the Persons be; except the same Sins either be committed, or remain unreformed by my Fault: Otherwise Christ our Lord had been inwrapped in the Guilt of a world of Sins in the Jewish Church, with which Church he communica∣ted in God's Ordinances, living and dying a Member thereof. If my Brother sin a scandalous Sin, and I by just order make Complaint there∣of to the Church, I have done my Duty; It appertains to the Church to excommunicate him, if he repent not; but not to me, except (Pope∣like) I would make my self the Church. I am guilty of the Evil in the Commonwealth and Family, for redressing whereof I do not my duty in my place: which if I do in the Church as I can, I am free from the Sins done and suffered there; which Sins and Evils I can no more be said to suffer (wanting power to reform them) than to suffer it to blow or rain, because I hinder it not.

But the proof of the Assertion from Mat. 13. is of admirable device. How doth the Church sanctify the Sin of the Sinner, as the Altar doth the Offering of the Offerer? The Altar makes that to become actually an Offering, or holy Gift, which before was not an Offering actually,

but only Gold, Silver, or other materials. So doth not the Church make any Man's Sin to become his Sin, which it was not before, but only suffers the Sin that was. But to strain the strings of this imagined pro∣portion to make them meet; and to suppose the Church in a sense to be as the Altar; yet this only follows thereupon, that, as he who par∣takes with the Altar in the upholding of the Offering, partakes with the Offering: So he that partakes with the Church in the upholding of any Evil, hath his part in the Evil also.

And this I grant willingly: but deny, as a most vain imagination, that every one that partakes with a Church in things lawful, joyns with it in upholding the things unlawful to be found in it. Christ our Lord joyned with the Jewish Church in things lawful, and yet upheld no∣thing unlawful in it.

Object. 3. But this course of Hearing will offend weak Brethren, not per∣swaded of the lawfulness of it.

Answ. 1. It will offend more, and many of them weaker, and that more grievously, if it be not performed.

2. It is an Offence taken, and not given; seeing the thing is in it self good in its kind, commanded by God; and in that particular, by Men in Authority; and directly tending to my Edification: and not like unto eating of Flesh, or drinking of Wine, or the like things of indif∣ferent nature, and left to my free liberty to use, or not to use.

And these are the principal Objections upon the former Grounds: They upon the latter follow.

There is in the hands of many, a Treatise published by a Man of Note, containing certain Reasons to prove it unlawful to hear, or have Spi∣ritual Communion with the present Ministry of the Church of England. This hath been answered, but indeed sophistically, and in passion: Neither hath the Answerer much regarded what he said or unsaid, so he might gainsay his Adversary. With that Answer was joyned another, di∣rected to my self, and the same doubled, pretending to prove Publick Communion upon Private: but not pressing at all, in the body of the Dis∣course, that Consequence; but proceeding upon other Grounds, and in truth, consisting of a continued Equivocation in the terms, Publick, Licence, Government, Ministry, and the like; drawn to another sense than either I intended them, or than the matter in question will permit. Whereas he that will refute another, should religiously take, and hold to his Adversaries meaning. And if in any particular it be not so plain∣ly set down, should spell it as it were out of his words. But it is no

new thing, even for Learned and Godly Men, to take more than lawful Liberty in dealing with them against whom they have the Advantage of the Times favouring them, like the Wind on their Backs. But God forbid I should follow them herein: I will on the contrary use all plainness and simplicity, as in the sight of God, that so I may make the naked Truth appear as it is to the Christian Reader's Eye what in me lieth.

And for the Treatise mentioned, it must be observed, how both in the Title and body of the Book, the Author confounds as one hearing of and having Spiritual Communion with the Ministery, &c. Which as it is true of such as stand in spiritual and political Church-Union with a Church, and the Ministry thereof, who accordingly have Church-Communion in the publick Acts and Exercises of that Church; so is it not true of others, which are not Members of, nor in Ecclesiastical Union and Combination with the said Church.

For the better clearing of things, let us in a few words consider di∣stinctly of Religious Actions, according to the several Ranks in which they may rightly and orderly be set. Some such Actions are Religious only, as they are performed by Religious Persons. And of this sort is Hearing (and so Reading) of God's Word. The Scriptures teach, and all confess, that Hearing of the Word of God goes before Faith: For Faith comes by Hearing, as by an outward means, (Rom. 10.7.) Hear∣ing then being before Faith, and Faith before all other Acts of Reli∣gion inward or outward; it must needs follow, that Hearing is not simply, or of it self, a work of Religion, and so not of Religious Com∣munion. Hearing is properly, and of it self, a natural Action, though it be the hearing the very Word of God. And I call it a natural Action in it self, in a double respect: First, for that the Light of Nature tea∣cheth every Man to hear and listen to another, that can and will teach and inform him in any thing for his good, divine or humane. Second∣ly, for that a meer natural Man, Jew, Turk, Infidel, or Idolater, law∣fully may, yea necessarily ought to hear God's Word; that so of natu∣ral he may become spiritual.

In the second rank, I place Preaching and Prayer; which are pro∣perly Acts religious and spiritual; as being to be performed the one by a Gift, the other by a Grace of God's Spirit. Psal. 50.16, 17. Prov. 15.8. John. 9.31.

Of a third sort is the Paricipation in the Sacraments; which or∣dinarily at least requires a Membership in some particular and Mi∣sterial Church in the Participant, they being publick Church-Ordi∣nances.

In a fourth Order I set the Power of Suffrage, and Voice-giving in electing of Officers, and cesuring of Offenders; for which there is requisite an Interest of the Person so voting, in that particular Church, as a Member thereof.

Of the last sort is the Ministration of Sacraments, which requires, with the rest fore-mentioned, a publick State of Ministry in the Person administring them.

Now for Preaching by some, and Hearing by others (which two al∣ways go together) they may be, and oft are performed without any Religious or Spiritual Communion at all passing between the Persons Preaching or Hearing.

When Paul preached to the superstitious Athenians, shall we conceive he had Spiritual Communion with that Heathenish Assembly? How much less had they Spiritual and Religious Communion with him, who performed not so much as a Religious Work in their hearing? As God gave any of them to believe, they came into invisible, or inwardly Spi∣ritual Personal Communion with him: as they came to make Personal Manifestation and Declaration of their Faith, they came into out∣ward Personal Communion with him: Lastly, as they came to joyn in, or unto some particular Church, into Church-Communion with him, else not. So when there comes into the Church-Assembly Ʋnbelievers, Heathens, Turks, Jews, Atheists, Excommunicates, Men of all Religions, Men of none at all, and there hear; what spiritual Communion have they with the Church or State of the Teacher, or one with another, either in regard of the nature of the Act done, or by God's Ordination and Institution? Hearing simply is not appointed of God to be a Mark, and Note either of Union in the same Faith, or Order amongst all that hear; or of differencing of Christians from no Christians, or of Mem∣bers from no Members of the Church; as the Sacraments are Notes of both in the Participants. The hearing of the Word of God is not so inclosed by any hedg or ditch, divine or humane, made about it, but lies in common for all, for the good of all.

The particular Objections follow.

Object. 1. No Man may submit his Conscience to be wrought upon by an unlawful and Antichristian Ministry: neither hath God promised, or doth af∣ford any Blessing upon it; neither can any have the sanctified use thereof.

Answ. It cannot be said properly that the Office of the Ministry works upon the Conscience of the Hearer. The Office only gives power and charge to the Teacher, to teach in such or such a Church-state.

And as it resides in the Person of the Officer alone; so the Commu∣nion (lawful or unlawful) which any hath with it, is in regard of the lawful or unlawful Ecclesiastical Relation and Union foregoing between the Persons; and not in any working of the Office upon the Conscience of any. Secondly, Though God bless not the unlawful Office of the Ministry, which is not of himself: yet he may and doth bless the Truths taught by the Officer, which are of himself, and from Heaven. To deny this of many in the Church of England, is (Balaam-like) to curse, where God would have us to bless.

Object. 2. To hear such a Minister, is to honour, approve, and uphold his Office of Ministry.

Answ. 1. If this be simply true; then when the heathenish Athenians heard Paul preach: or when an Unbeliever comes into the Church-Assembly, and hears the Preacher, he approves, honours, and upholds the Office of the Ministry, which what it means, he is altogether ig∣norant.

If any reply: We know the Ministry of the Church to be as it is.

I answer: That the knowing of it makes not our act the more or less an act of Approbation. If I do an Act wherein I indeed approve of a thing, if I know the thing, I really approve of it upon Knowledg; if I know it not, I really approve of it, but ignorantly. 2. If I ap∣prove of the Office simply, because I hear the Officer preach, then I much more approve of all the Doctrines which he delivers, because I hear him deliver them. If the latter seems unreasonable, so is the for∣mer much more, except I be in Church-Communion with the Officer, and then indeed I really approve of his Office, as I also do of his Doctrine, if it be according to the Confession of Faith made by me; for then I am in former Union with him in the one or other, and so have Communion in the Acts thereof. If this were a good ground, that every one approves of the Evil done in matter or manner, where he is present, none could live with a good Conscience in the Society of Men upon Earth. Persons so minded are best alone; for with others they will keep no Peace, no not with themselves neither, if they be true to their own Grounds. But they plainly balk themselves in their Courses, either in weakness of Judgment, or partiality of Affection, or throught want of due Consideration of their Ways.

Object. 3. By this then it seems a Man may be present at any act of Ido∣latry, and do as others do that practise Idolatry, yet not approve of it. And so the three Nobles in Daniel needed not to have put themselves upon such Pikes of Danger as they did, for not falling down as others did in the Place.

Answ. 1. In preaching the Truths of the Gospel no Idolatrous Act is performed, as there was. 2. It must be known, that Appro∣bation is properly in the Heart, and only the manifestation of Appro∣bation in outward Gesture, Speech or Writing: Both the one and other are evil, if the thing be evil. But here it must be considered, that I may in some cases do the same outward Act which others do, and wherein they manifest their Approbation of Idolatry or other Evil, and yet I be free in Truth and Deed from all such Approbation and Stain thereof. The Jews after Christ's Death, and the taking away and abolish∣ing the legal Ordinances thereby, circumcised their Infants, and frequen∣ted the Temple for Purification, and other Mosaical Ceremonies as parts of God's Worship, and still remaining of Divine Institution. Paul also circumcised Timothy, entred the Temple for Purification, and yet did not approve any manner or way of the Error and Evil in the Jewish Wor∣shippers. To come nearer home: it is the Custom in Popish Coun∣tries, that all that pass by a Cross, must in honour of it, leave it on the Right-hand, as they may be reason of the placing of it, coming or go∣ing. Now if I ride with others that way, I may do the thing that they do, and keep Company with them, and yet not honour the Cross as they do. It is, besides the former, the manner that such as so pass a Cross, should in further honour, put off their Hat to the said Cross. But if I do this also, I plainly manifest an Approbation of the Super∣stition. The reason of the Difference is, because I have another just Cause to do the former thing, namely to keep on with my Company, but have no just cause of the latter. But now, suppose that at the very place where the Cross stands, I meet with some Friend or other, to whom I owe that civil Respect of uncovering my Head; I may then do that lawfully also upon the former Ground. So, if I had just and reasonable cause either of coming or standing by the Magistrate (to whom I owe this Civil Honour) whilst he is performing some Act of Idolatry in the Streets, or else-where; I might upon the same Ground, go or stand uncovered by him without just Blame. To apply these things to the Objection moved, seeing no other Cause could resonably be conceived of the King's commanding such a thing, or of their do∣ing the thing at his Commandment, save the worshipping of the Idol; they in so doing could not have escaped the just blame of Idolatry: But now I have just Causes more than one of my Hearing, and amongst the rest my Edification; and therefore cannot be challenged therein to approve of the Ministers state or standing. Besides that, as for∣merly answered, here is no Idolatrous Act performed.

Object. 4. He that hears them preach, hears them as Ministers of the Church of England, and as sent by the Bishops, and so in hearing them, hears and receives them that send them; according to that of our Saviour, He that hears you, hears me; and he that despiseth you, despiseth me; and he that despiseth me, despiseth him that sent me. Luke 9.16. Joh. 13.10.

Answ. I grant the former part of the Objection, and account the de∣nying of it a point of Familism, seeing the Officers of publick States in the executing of their Offices are to be esteemed according to the pub∣lick Laws and Orders of those States, and not according to any under∣hand either Course or Intention by themselves or others. They are heard as they preach, and preach as Ministers of the Bishops sending, and the Parishes receiving, to which they are sent by them. And so I profess I hear them as the Ministers of the Bishop's sending, and of the Parishes sent to; but not as my Ministers either sending, or sent to, except I be of those Parishes, or at least in Ecclesiastical Union with them. Every one, whether of a false Church, or no Church, or excom∣municated from the Church, that hears me, hears me as the Pastor of the Church which I serve, but not as his Pastor, I suppose, nor in way of any his spiritual Communion with mine Office of Pastorship. Se∣condly, By hearing and receiving there, Christ's means properly the hearking to, believing and obeying the Doctrine taught by the Apo∣stles, which many despised, unto whom he opposeth the former that heard it. Now the Ministers in the Parishes have not the Doctrines of the Gospel from the Bishops, as they have their Office; but from God in his Word, and so far forth as a Man hears, that is, hearkens to, and receives them by receiving it, he so far hearkens to and receives Christ.

Object. 5. Yet such as hear them, have Communion with their Office of Mi∣nistry what in them lies.

Answ. That is, they have no Communion at all with it, if it lie not in them to have any, as it doth not. If I hold up my Hand as high as I can, I touch Heaven with my Finger, what in me lies: Do I there∣fore at all touch it? If such think to have, any such Communion, it is their Error and Ignorance, but makes not the thing to be the more, than if they thought not so.

Object. 6. Is there then no Communion at all between the Teacher, and taught? What Profit then comes there by such Hearing?

Answ. The Church-Officer feeds the Flock and Church over which he is set, as the Object of his Ministry; such as come in (being not in Church-Union therewith) hear him so doing; and, as a Stander-by, hearing me talk to, or dispute with another (tho I speak not a word to him)

may reap as much, and more Fruit by my Speech, than he to whom I direct it; so may and doth it often come to pass with him that hears the Minister feed the Flock whose Minister he is, tho he be no part of it: He may reap Fruit by hearing him feed his Flock, or seeing him minister Baptism to any Member thereof: Here is Communion only in the effects of the Truths taught. It were Usurpation in any to partake in a Church-Priviledg (which the Office of Ministry is) that were not in a Church-State first; and so if hearing simply imported Church-Communion, none but Church-Members might lawfully hear.

Object. 7. In the true Church indeed is Order, that the Church-Covenant go before Church-Communion, but not so in the false.

Answ. In the true Church there may be unlawful Church-Commu∣nion without a preceeding Church-Covenant, as well as in the other; to wit, if an Act of Communion (properly) pass between the Church, and him that is no Church-Member; as for Example, Participation in the Sacraments; but hearing being not properly an Act of Communi∣on, cannot import Communion necessarily with the one or other; not otherwise then according to a fore-going Church-Union; whereas to partake in the Lord's Supper imports Communion in both lawful in him; that is, a lawful Church-Member, and unlawful in him that is not in such a Church-State.

Object. 8. But it is the Order of the Church of England, that all that hear, are, and so are reputed Members of that Church.

Answ. I deny that there is any such Order; let the Law or Canon either be shewed that so orders things.

Excommunicates are permitted to hear Sermons, tho not Divine Service, as they call it. 2. What if there were such an Order? It no more either made or declared me to be a Member there, than doth my dwelling in such or such a Parish make me a Member of that Parish-Church; which latter is indeed the Law and Order there. If the Church with me should make a Law, Canon, or Order, that all that come in and hear me preach, should thereby become Members of it; we were the more foolish in making such an Order, but they never a whit the nearer either for Membership or Communion.

Object. 9. He that hears, appears to have Communion with the Church, and Ministry, and all Appearance of Evil is to be avoided: 1 Thess. 5.22.

Answ. The Scripture is not to be understood of all that appears Evil to Others, out of an erroneous and deceived Judgment; for then we must abstain from almost all Good; seeing there are some to whom almost all Good seems Evil; but it is meant either of the Doctrine in Prophesy, of which I have some probable Suspicion; of which the

Apostle seems properly to speak; or of that which appears Evil to a rightly discerning eye. By this imagined Exposition I might not hire a House in a Parish where I were not known: seeing thereby I appear a Parish-member.

Object. 10. None can hear without a Preacher, nor Preach except he be sent, Rom. 10.14, 15. Therefore I cannot lawfully hear him that hath nat a lawful sending.

Answ. That conclusion is neither in Text, nor sound: I may law∣fully hear him that hath no lawful Calling, as I have formerly shewed.

2. The Apostle's meaning there, is not to shew what is unlawful, but what is impossible. It is impossible to believe without hearing, and im∣possible to hear without preaching, and impossible to preach without the sending there intended; that is, without God's gracious work of Pro∣vidence in raising up of Men, by enabling, and disopsing them to preach for the effectual calling of the Elect of God, of which he there speaks. If any make a Question, Whether Faith come by the hearing of the Preachers there? It is more questionable, whether they themselves want not Faith, which are so barren of Charity, in which true Faith is fruit∣ful. If Faith come by the Preaching in England to any; it follows there∣upon that such Preachers are sent in the Apostle's sense.

Object. 11. The Sheep of Christ hear his Voice, but strangers they will not hear. John 10.3, 8, 27.

Answ. Christ does not there speak of the outward Hearing, but of the hearkning unto; that is, as he expounds himself, ver. 3, 4, 5, 14, 15, 16, 17. of the knowing and beieving of his Voice, and following it. So Chap. 9. I told you before, and ye did not hear; that is, not believe, ver. 27. And, God hears not Sinners, ver. 31. that is, approves not of them and their Prayers. So Chap. 11. I know that thou hearest me always; and a thousand times in the Scriptures. The drift of Christ in the place is (without question) to shew the difference between such as were his Sheep, and such as were not his Sheep. His Sheep heard his Vioce, and they which were not his Sheep heard not his Voice. But they which were not his Sheep, nor heard his Voice, as there he speaks, heard him preach outwardly as well as the rest which were his Sheep: Besides, they which were his Sheep, and would not hear Strangers in the Lord's Sense, heard outwardly those Strangers preach, and by hearing them discovered them to be Strangers, that is, false Prophets. The Strangers of whom he speaks were of the true Church, and of Israel, but brought false Doctrine tending to kill the Soul. Such Stran∣gers none should hear, that is, believe and follow.

Object. 12. The Scriptures both of the Old and New Testament warn God's People of false Prophets, which the Ministers of that Church are, ha∣ving an unlawful Calling.

Answ. 1. They warn, not to hearken unto them, nor to believe them, Deut. 13.3. 1 John 4.1. but to try them, which without hearing them, cannot be done. Not that all false Prophets are to be heard by all, that they may try them, for that were to tempt God: But I now answer the Scripture cited, which speaks of Prophets in the true Church, which were to be heard till they were orderly repressed, or at least plainly discovered by their Doctrine heard to be such.

2. No Man's unlawful outward Calling makes him a false Prophet, nor his outward lawful Calling a true; but his true or false Doctrine only makes him a true or false Prophet. A Man may have a lawful Office of Ministry, and yet be a false Prophet, if he teach false Doctrine; so may he be a true Prophet, if he teach the Truth, tho in an unlaw∣ful and Antichristian State of Ministry. Yea Balaam was both a false Prophet in cursing (in purpose) where God would have him bless, and in teaching Balack to put a Stumbleng-block before the People of Israel; Numb. 22.25. Josh. 13.22. 2 Pet. 2.15, 26. Rev. 2.14. and yet a true Prophet in blessing Israel by the Spirit of Prophecy, and Word of the Lord put into his Mouth. Numb. 25.5, 9, 10, &c. and Chap. 24.23, &c. He is a Prophet that speaks or declares a thing past, present, or to come: And to prophesy in our Sense, is nothing else but to speak to Edification, Exhortation, and Comfort. 1 Cor. 14.3. He that doth this is a true Prophet, he that speaks the contrary, a false. It were good if they, in whose Mouths the challenge of false Prophets is rifest, would better weigh how themselves expound and apply the Scriptures in their prophesying, lest notwithstanding any outward lawful Church-state, they be deeper wounded by the rebound of their Accusations this way, then their Adversaries.

Object. 13. The Lord forbids Judah going to Gilgal or to Bethel. Hos. 4.15, 16.

Answ. The meaning is plain, and the words express that they were not to go thither to offend, and play the harlot in joyning to Idols, vers. 15, 16, 17. This I grant is to be done in no place; but deny any such thing to be done in the Hearing by me pleaded for. The Scriptures every where forbid the going, or coming to such Places, or Persons, as in or by which some Evil is done, to wit, for the doing of any thing evil, or unlawful in, or with them.

Object. 14. They that eat of the Sacrifice partake of the Altar, 1 Cor. 10.18. so they that receive the Word from an unlawful Officer, partake with his Office.

Answ. I deny the Consequence; The Office is not to the Word, as the Altar is to the Sacrifice. The Altar makes the things to be offer'd, actually to become a Sacrifice, which it was not before, save only in De∣stination; as Christ plainly teacheth, saying, The Altar sanctifieth the Gift, Mat. 23.19. but so doth not the Office make that to become the Word of God, which was not so actually before. This Argument hath its special weight, being applied to Sacraments, or proper Institutions. The Church and Ministry under God, make (in a good sence) the Bread and Wine Sacramental, in their use, which before they were not. And to the Sacraments (especially the Supper of the Lord) the Apostle in the place cited hath an eye; shewing the proportion between the eating of the Sacrifices in Israel, which in that use became their Sacra∣ments; and the eating the Sacrifice of the Heathens, which were their Sacraments; and the eating of the Lord's Supper, as the Sacrament of Christians. With these things join in the last place, that Sacrifices con∣sidered as proper Institutions, might not be offered or eaten, but in the place chosen, (Deut. 12.5, 6, 7.) and sanctified by the Lord for that pur∣pose. No more may Sacraments now be eaten, but in the Church; whereas the Word may be preached to any, as well out of the Church as in it.

Object. 15. The Places called Temples and Churches, having been built for Idolatry, should be demolished, and therefore are not to be frequented, specially being accounted and made Holy Places, Deut. 12.3.

Answ. 1. The difference of Places under the Law, when all other pla∣ces, (for the most solemn Worship) as opposed to that one place as holy, were unholy, is now taken away; so as no place now is holy, or unholy, as then.

2. Suppose it be the Magistrates Duty to destroy them, (of which I now dispute not, nor how far he should proceed therein) yet I deny the Consequence, and that I may not use that lawfully which he ought to destroy.

The Magistrate ought to have destroyed such Cities in Israel, as whose Inhabitants had been corrupted with Idolatry, Deut. 13.12, 13, 14. Yet might the Cities (if spared by the Magistrates) lawfully be dwelt in afterwards; and Synagogues in them both be built and frequented for God's moral Worship. Jericho should have been an execration and heap for ever, 2 King. 2.3, 5. yet being built again and standing, was the Seat of the School of the Prophets. The Murtherer ought to be put to death: yet if he be spared, and survive, his Wife, Children and Ser∣vants, lawfully may, and in Conscience ought to converse with him according to the natural and civil relations between them and him.

3. I know no Law in force, nor Doctrine received in the Church of England, that ascribes any holiness to the places. And for Errors and Abuses personal, they rest in the persons so erring. I suppose some such Holiness be abscribed unto them, as to Holy Churches, Holy Buildings, Consecrated Places, &c. Yet I see no sufficient reason why I may not use lawfully a natural and civil place in them, for any law∣ful Work, Civil or Religious, Private or Publick, for there is one rea∣son of all these. If any think those places like the Idolathites, he mis∣taketh therein: The things offered to Idols, and eaten in the Idols Temple, and Feast, were in proportion, as the Bread and Wine (be∣ing blessed) in the Lord's Supper; as both the Apostle, and reason of the thing manifests. Whereas the place which I use (though for a re∣ligious Action to be performed in it) whether in the Temple, or in mine own House, hath only the Consideration of a natural and civil Circumstance. The Temple as a Temple (which yet I do not think is done in England by any, either received Doctrine, or Law) may be made an Idol by Consecration; and yet every particular place in it not made unlawful for all Uses.

If any further Object, that in preaching and hearing God's Word therein, we have a religious use of it, they err, not considering that tho the Work done be religious, yet the Place is no more religious therefore than the time in which I do it. Time and Place are natural Circumstances, and without which no finite Action can be performed; and some time and place more commodious and fit than others for the doing of things of all kinds. I have no more religious Use of the place which I hear publickly, than in which I pray privately in my House or Chamber.

Object. 16. Seeing whatsoever is not of Faith is Sin, what Word of God, and so of Faith is there for this Practice?

Answ. Every Scripture that either commands the hearing of God's Word, and promiseth a Blessing to them that hear and keep it: Mat. 7.24. Luke 11.28. or that commands me to edify and build to my self: 1 Pet. 2.5. or to obey the Magistrate; Tit. 3.1. or to follow after Peace: Heb. 12.14. or to prevent Offences: 1 Cor. 10.32. warrants and in Cases enjoyns this Practice, supposing no Sin to be in the way: of which in answering the former Objections (to which I suppose all other of weight or colour may be referred) I hope I have cleared it.

And for any unsatisfied, or other-wise minded, I wish I knew their Reasons either for their good, by a sufficent Answer to be given unto them, or for mine own, by admitting of them, as there may appear weight in them. In the mean while, let me intreat of the differently

minded one way or other, that they would exercise mutually that true Christian Charity one toward another, and Compassion one of ano∣thers Infirmities, which becomes all that will be in Truth and Deed, Followers of Christ Jesus; and which is most needful (specially in things of this kind, for the preserving of the Unity of the Spirit in the Bond of Peaee; which Bond of Peace whilst Men are not careful to keep inviolated by brotherly Forbearance in matters of this nature, they miserably dissipate, and scatter themselves, and one another, even as the Ears in a Sheaf are scattered when the Bond breaketh.

But as few or no good things of any kind are so well used by some, but others as much abuse them; so it is to be feared, there will not want, who will change the lawful Liberty this way, into lawless Li∣centiousness, and so take up instead of all other religious Exercises, a Hearing Course only.

And those specially of them who disliking the present Church-state in England, yet want due Zeal and Love to that which themselves ap∣prove. Let me a little turn my Speech to such, for the preventing in some, and remedying in others of that inordinate and broken Course.

And first I demand of such, what is this Course of hearing such Ministers, as whose state of Ministry they approve not? Is it any par∣ticular Ordinance left by Christ, and enjoyned all Christians in all Ages and Places? Verily no. It were to be wished that no Church-Ministry were to be found, which is not approveable by the Word of God, notwithstanding any good Act performed by them that possess it. This Hearing is only a work-of natural Liberty it self, as I have shewed, and sanctified to Believers by their Faith. It is lawful to use it upon occa∣sion, as it is to borrow of other Men; but to make it our Course, is to live by borrowing, which no honest Man, that can do otherwise possibly, would do. Yea what differs it from a kind of spiritual Vaga∣bondry in him that can mend it, tho with some Difficulty, to live in no certain Church-state, and under no Church-order, and Government.

To print deep in our Hearts the Conscience of our Duties this way, let us briefly consider how many Bonds of Necessity the Lord hath laid upon us, to walk in the Fellowship, and under the Ordinances of the ministerial and instituted Church.

First, We have lying upon us the necessity of Obedience to Christ our Lord, in the Commission Apostolical enjoyning, that after we be made Disciples, as the Word is, and baptized, we be withal taught to observe whatsoever he hath commanded, Mat. 28.19, 20. It must not then suffice us that we are Disciples and Christians, but we must join here∣with the entire observation of all the Ordinances of Christ (as we can

find means) from the greatest to the least. And let us beware that like the Scribes and Pharisees, we call none of God's Commandments little, because we would make our selves, and others believe, that little and light account is to be made of observing them; lest we our selves be called little, that is, be indeed none in the Kingdom of Heaven. Our Sins of Ignorance and humane frailty, alas, are too many, let us not add thereunto presumptuous Sins, either of Commission or Omission, to pro∣voke God withal.

2. The Church, and ministrations therein, are not needless, but most needful means sanctified of God, and given of Christ for our Salvation and edification thereunto; which he that despiseth, that is, doth not submit his Soul and Body unto (as he hath means) and converse there∣in with good Conscience, tho in Affliction and Persecution, despiseth not Man, but God and Christ, to the depriving of himself of the Fruit of God's most gracious presence in his House and Temple, where he hath promised to dwell; and of Christ's ascension into Heaven, for the pour∣ing out of all Kingly Gifts and Largesses upon Men for the Work of the Ministry.

3. Our great Insirmities, whereof both the Scriptures every where, and our own experience warn us, shew in what great need we stand of all the Lord's Holy Ordinances and Institutions, for the supplying of what is wanting in us, and correcting what is amiss, and continuing and encreasing of what is good, unto the coming of the Lord: where we must also take knowledg, and remember, that it is one note of dif∣ference, and the same very clear, between the wisdom of the Flesh, and the wisdom of the Spirit, that the former will be sure to provide for the Body, and outward Man, what may be, tho with danger and prejudice of the Spiritual; the other will take care and order for the Spiritual State, tho the outward pinch for it. And if any, out of the view, and persuasion of his own strength of Grace, come to conceive, that he stands in no such need of Christ's Ordinances, or of any Chri∣stian Fellowship for the dispensing of them: let such a Man consider, that the less need he hath of others by reason of his greater plenty of Grace received, the more need others have of him for their supply. But whatsoever any imagine of himself, the Apostle, who was not partial, teacheth, that the very Head (the chief and highest Mem∣bers) cannot say to the Feet (the lowest and meanest Members) I have no need of you, 1 Cor. 12.21.

4. And lastly, It is necessary for our sound and entire comfort with the Lord our God, that our Obedience be entire in respect of all his Holy Commandments, which we do, or can discern to be such, and to

concern us, according to that of the Man of God, Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect to all thy Commandments, Psal. 119.6. That so we may have our part in the Testimony given by the Holy Ghost of Zachary and Elizabeth: which was, that they were Righteous before God, walking in all the Commandments and Ordinances of the Lord blame∣less, Luke 1.5, 6. That is, both in the Moral Precepts, and Sacred Ceremonies, and Institutions of the Lord. Whose Examples we in our Place and Times are to follow, not balking with the Lord in any thing, great or small: nor seeking starting-holes, whereby to escape from him in his Word, which is holy, good, and pure. Good, as com∣ing from our good God, good in it self; and good for us, if we con∣verse therein as we ought, in good Conscience towards God, Zeal for his Ordinances, Modesty in our Selves, and Charity towards other Men; specially towards them with whom God hath joined us in the most and best things: taking heed lest by any uncharitable, either judgment of, or withdrawing from their Persons, for such humane Frailties, as unto which, into one kind or other, all Adam's sinful Posterity are subject; we sin not more by our course held against them, than they by theirs in them, which God forbid.

To conclude; For my self, thus I believe with my Heart before God, and profess with my Tongue, and have before the World, that I have one and the same Faith, Hope, Spirit, Baptism, and Lord, which I had in the Church of England, and none other: that I esteem so many in that Church, of what state or order soever, as are truly par∣takers of that Faith (as I account many thousands to be) for my Christian Brethren; and my self a Fellow member with them of that one Mystical Body of Christ scattered far and wide throughout the World: that I have always in Spirit and Affection, all Chri∣stian Fellowship, and communion with them, and am most ready in all outward Acti∣ons and Exercises of Religion, lawful and lawfully done, to express the same: and with∣al, that I am perswaded the heating of the Word of God there preached, in the man∣ner, and upon the grounds formerly mentioned, both lawful and, upon occasion, necessa∣ry for me, and all true Christians, withdrawing from that Hierarchical Order of Church-Government and Ministry, and the appearances thereof: and uniting in the Order and Ordinances instituted by Christ, the only King, and Lord of his Church, and by all his Disciples to be observed. And lastly, That I cannot communicate with, or submit unto the said Church-Order and Ordinances there established, either in State or Act, without being condemned of mine own Heart, and therein pro••oking God, who is greater than my Heart, to condemn me much more. And for my Failings (which may easily be too many) one way or other, of Ignorance herein; and so for all my other Sins, I most hum∣bly crave pardon first, and most at the Hands of God. And so of all Men whom therein I offend, or have offended any manner of way; even as they desire, and look that God should pardon their Offences.

Thus far Mr. Robinson.