As you were: or A reducing (if possibly any) seduc't ones, to facing about, turning head, front against God) by the recrimination (so intended) upon Mr. J.G. (Pastor of the church in Colmanstreet) in point of fighting against God. By an unworthy auditor of the said (Iuditious-pious-divine) master Iohn Goodvvin.

AS YOƲ WERE.

1. THe Recriminator (so hee may bee nam'd, if a quality, disposition, may denominate its subject) saith; That to build on what Gamaliel here speakes is to build on a rotten and unsound Foundation. Reader, if the Councell had not done thus, how had the Apostles fared? Certainely bad enough, they had lost their lives by the sentence of the Court. But why saith the Recr: as he doth?

1. He tells us that hee never heard so much good of Gamaliel except from Popish Interpreters. But (to be∣leeve him herein, haply hee read none other on the place) may not others here so much from some other not Popish? Truly I have read but two, and they suf∣ficient enough in such a case, viz. Piscator & Baeza; The first saith that Gamaliel is here commended: the latter saies no whit lesse, some what more then the former; according to him, Gamaliel was a Patron of Christs cause. Indeede the Minister spake not a word of any personall goodnesse in the man, but of the au∣thority of what was spoken by him. Balaam, Saul, and Caipha's may prophecy; But he tells us the best Inter∣preters judge him irreligious, &c. Who are they? Hee tells us not. Wherein Gamaliel thus? he shewes us not. But let them bee what they will, and this speaker so

and so too, yet it prejudices not the Preachers Do∣ctrine.

2. He saith Gamaliels scope was but the preservati∣on of himselfe and the Councell (he might well have preferred the Councell in placing his words see verses 35, 38, 39.) from the feare of Jewes and wrath of Ro∣mans; Poore man! The first would be but at the Apo∣stles apprehension (as of Christ, its said they laid not their hands on him for feare of the people, not execu∣tion (as it appeares in the example,) the latter they oft regarded not in such a case (as appeares in the stories of the Gospel and Acts. Eminently in that they oft would have killed Paul a Roman borne, (Acts 23. 27.) and I dispute not how by their Law. Cap. 24. 6. The Recr: without ground runnes astray from the Text, to fetch a meaning which will not agree with this place. For the speech of Gamaliel tends manifestly (to any not partiall, prejudic't) to with-holding from these [Apo∣stles] and that respecting their Councell and workes, and al least endeavoring to overthrow it, they be found [even] fighters against God, vers. 35. 38. &c.

3. He saith, though there be some truth in the speech, yet three great errors; namely, 1 He makes it uncertaine whether the Apostles Doctrine & Miracles were from God or men? True, hee makes it if twere uncertaine; but to prove that he indeede held it so is more then this Annymus can prove; He might, and in all likely∣hood did thus expresse himselfe for feare, or policy (as many most thinke.) So did Hushai strangely for an ho∣nest heart, in that case of Davids, in his Councell to Absolom, whereby he defeated that of Achitophel 2 Sam. 17. Were Gamaliel certaine of that hee speakes of doubtfully, he exceeded a Polititian, was not a Neu∣tralist,

nor Adieophorit, Nullifidian, but believed) and so haply exceeded his judgers. But whether dubious or grounded herein, its evident he here fought for God. And that he said, was good, (1) in it selfe; Therefore Godly learned Gualter saith it should be to us as an Oracle to learne from, &c. (which no evill speech may be) I qote it because the Minister doth (2) In the rise also, pro∣bably, Gods spirit was the motive as of Nicodemus his admonition. Joh. 7. 50. 51. Its the Interpreters instance. (3) In the meanes law∣full. He a Doctor of the Law one of this chiefe Councell, Assem∣bly gives this advice (and that seasonably) at a consultation (4) In the end its rendered so. It saves the lives of the Apostles, and that intendedly.

2. He would himselfe and have others judge this (or things to many seeming dubious, whether of God or no, uncertaine for the present) by the event. Truely God gives such a Law; he would have Prophets whether false or true, tried thus, Deut. 18. last; and hereby this Councell were such judged, and according to Gods rule and ordinance and least found fighters against him. They yeeld to this Doctor of the Law, his advice of letting these (Apo∣stles alone till God and themselves clearely discover what now ap∣peares dubious, uncertaine (which suppos'd uncertainty in Gama∣liel is this mans first exception, error.

3. According to his Councell Hereticks and Heresie should bee let alone in confidence, that if such waies if not of God will come to nought. How now? dost thou not understand, or dost you be—Gamaliel; Gamaliel was (possibly, yea probably) as great an enemy of, adversaty, destruction to Hereticks, Heresie as this Recr: and would have acquited himselfe as such an one, and had the whole Councell also, like Jewes indeede rooted out, pluckt up these, if he had knowne them so to be and evidenced it to them. But the case standing as it did, Gamaliel speakes for the Apostles, and the Councell agree to him, not proceeding to their slaying. (According to this the Minister spake, that till wee are certaine that such a Doctrine is Heresie, we cannot without danger of be∣ing found fighters against God, endeavour to overthrow it.)

Next hee would shew an odious comparison; which is not so unlesse every comparison be odious. Its true, some Ministers of the Congregationall way are of a very choise annointing. God hath given them a spirit of discerning [that truth] above some o∣thers:

yet may those some others be pillars and prime men in the House and Temple of God, and haply willing to bee thought s•• too, as it seemes Paul was as well as Peter, Gal. 2. where Paul no•• onely compareth but preserreth himselfe unto Peter (so saith ear∣ned King James in his Epistle to all Christian Mornarch, pag. 48.) and that on purpose to heighten his owne estimation. Here the Recr: quotes discriptions and conceits (in the prime thicknesse of his wit) that there was a contradictiō among them; but afterwards (reading good ingenuous lines, sh••rpens, raiseth, quickens the in∣venti••n, w••t) he his on reconci••ing them, (the apparition disap∣peares.) But why inserts he the Section? Its likely wh••n hee be∣gan he intended not to dead ingenuously, to shew this: but now he is contented to doe it, haply in caution to prevent the Reply. For sure enough there is no such great art, &c. in this Act for our rearning, his glorying.

Next he saith the Congregationall way doth hinder the Presby∣teriall waies driving on. In truth the case is thus, the Presbyteriall drivers will rather in state, stand and not goe on, then suffer the Congregationall way (the elder sister) to goe a foote before them.

To the next quotation the Minister, speake not what hee said that way is like to prove to many, without ground: For if the roaring at a distance is so terible, afflicts so, what wil be the misery of its persence? probably—So as the dred, Psal. 90. 11.

To the next quotation, if this Recr: be a Preacher I commend his reach he takes Text enough. If Mr. John Goodwins writing will not doe, hee turnes to the Apologists. (Reader, remember his Chimaera) who knit a knot with Mr. Goodwin, yet the sayings abide single and apart, unentangled. The Apologists deny not what Mr. Goodwin saies nor Mr. Goodwin what the Apologist writ, who add if the Magistrates power backe the sentence of Non-communion, it will be as effectuall [as the Presbyteriall way is supposed to be.] Sir, here effectualnes is not simply ascrib'd to the Presbyteriall way, nor to the Congregationall by this backing, where then is the tye?

To the next quotation, if he like not the answer he should have well answered Naziaren, and not have crept away with a Tempora mutan••ur, &c. Well, God mend us, and so the times. Here next the Recr: falsely quotes the words. The first sentence is this, why may we not thinke but that God may aswell say, that there are too many learned and wise men in great Councell, for God to

reveale truth, or to give truth victory, against errour by §. 2. Hee quotes halfe a line out of a sentence containing 15. lines Which in effect say, that where greater numbers of men accom∣plisht with grace, &c. shall assemble, &c. to argue &c. onely with an intent to be helpers of the Saints, and not to exercise a domini∣on over their faith. (2 Cor. 11. 24) they may expect a speciall pre∣sence of God with them. The third is plainely this, that even in Councells, &c. its' usually seene that some one or few either of predominate parts or authority among them, sway and steer, &c. And is any the least appearance of evill, in saying this? (1) Have not even those admirers, worshippers of Councels (the Papists I meane) spoken m••re and ill of Counsell? But herein comes not Mr. Goodwin neere the Arminians? &c. A poore shift for a calum∣niation. I finde the Arminians in their confession (cap. 25. d•• Sy∣nodis) saying, that Synods ought to be convented by the example of the Apostles themselves, Acts 15. And that they ought in the first place to drive Hereticks from the Churches, &c. And that the Christian Magistrates (after God and Christs cheif) authority ought to intervene, and say not all Presbyterians the same? come not they neere the Arminians? Thus it is to argue like the Recri∣minator. 2. Have not our worthy writers against Papists said as much as Mr. Goodwin (in this point) and seven times over and once more: In perticu••iar Whitaker whom he quotes? I will instance in places if cause

Next he would claspe the hands of the Apologists and Mr. Good∣win, and make us beleeve they give a blow to Parliaments power, viz. coercive in matters of Religion, (hee should like a man have manifested what that power is, and that God hath given it, &c. And that these give lesse to the Magistrate than the principles of the Presbyterians. This would have abundantly rendred him ac∣ceptable to the Congregationall men. If the man emulate such an honour, let him appeare in the Cause.

Next hee would have Mr. Goodwin give his first borne for his transgression what transgression? Forsooth, hee against his Do∣ctrine lifts up a thought, &c. against the Presbyteriall way which claimeth origination and discent from Heaven, and that without security upon security, &c. How knowes he that? Did Mr. Goodwin tell him or any other so, or hath hee faculty without his acknow∣ledging, to know his evidence? Surely neither, but we bee—Mr.

Goodwin. Well then, suppose Mr. Goodwin hath such a demonstra∣tion &c. yet may not another, or any without so much proofe, appeare in contestation against this or that Doctrine as Heresie? &c. Alas. The whole booke answers this objection, yet the — askes it. But yet (saith this never c••ntented man) falls not this up∣on the excommunication in the congregational way such evi¦dence, proofe, demonstration, security, a heritick may, ought to be after orderly proceeding, rejected, cast out of the lines of the Churches Communication, &c.

From my Counting-house. October 24.

P. P.

REader,

The charge of the blood of our men, &c. lost at the defeate in the West, is a heavie charge: it hath and will make the beares speake when the murther of Jesus, was laid on the heads of the Jewes, they are cut to the heart, and take Councell to slay the Apostles, vers. 23. of this Chap. and Chap. 7. 54. they are againe cut to the heart at this, and gna•••• on Steven with their teeth, and yet truly there it lies.vide cap. 5. 28. Now I remember what Mr. Peeters (that faithfull coun∣tryman and laborious for the States good) said but th' other day, (a Tuesday the fast day for our Armies.) I am confident, it was that (he had spoken against scratching, afflcting our brethren) gave us the blow in the West. Vpon which Mr. Goodwin preacht these Sermons.