An answer to W.R. his narration of the opinions and practises of the churches lately erected in Nevv-England.: Vindicating those Godly and orthodoxall churches, from more then an hundred imputations fathered on them and their church way, by the said W.R. in his booke. Wherein is plainely proved, 1. That the grounds of his narration are sandie and insufficient. 2. That the maner of his handling it, unloving and irregular. 3. That the matter of it, ful of grosse mistakes & divers contradictions. 4. That the quotations extremely wrested, and out of measure abused. 5. That his marginall notes impertinent and injurious. / By Thomas Welde, Pastour of the Church of Roxborough in Nevv-England. This is licensed and entred according to order.

Answer to CHAP. I.

THe summe of Art. 1. and its Margent is That the Churches of [unspec I] New-England, being the same in Discipline with Plymouth, and Ply∣mouth having their Principles from Mr. Robinson it is to be inquired whether we be not all of the way of the Separatists.

[Answer.] 1. As in our judgements we much differ from them, so in several par∣ticulars of moment, we practise what the Separatists (properly so cal∣led) will not doe, as hearing, preaching, praying in the Assemblies in England, and also in private commmunion with them, &c.

2. Though we should practise some of the same things they doe in Discipline, doth that make the way evill, simply because they doe it? First, he must prove that the Separatists practise nothing right at all, or else that we must not, because they doe it.

3. Himselfe hath fully answered for us, Preface pag. 3. who saith to this effect. Though in Discipline men generally act like others,) he meanes the Separatist.) yet if in their opinion of these practises, and

in the ground•• of them, they not only differ, but stiffly ••ppso•• them, the just re∣pute of such persons is to be preserved. We need looke no further to cleare us from censure, then to W. R. himselfe. For it's well know ne we differ from them in our opinions and grounds of our practise, and how we hate opposed rigid Separatists in that very point, let our own writings witnesse; Discourse of Covenant. 36. 37. 38. 52.

Here note (once for all) he saith, that the churches in New-England are of one and the same way in Discipline without any materiall difference: And this he would have remembred all along his booke. I hope he will not start from this afterwards, I pray him to mind it.

He saith Art 2. We have no Platformes agreed upon amongst us. [unspec II]

1. We hold it not unlawfull to have a Platforme of Church Go∣vernment, i. e. a confession of the Discipline of Christ, [Ans.] collected out of Scripture, and set down in writing.

2. Yet we see no Grounds to impose such a Platforme upon Chur∣ches, but leave them to their libertie therein, because (we know not that) Christ ever enjoyned it, and therefore we desire W. R. not to stumble at our Churches, much lesse, take upon him, so masterly, to controll us because we have it not.

To the Marginalls of Art. 2.

He wonders how we so soone fell into such an exact forme of Discipline [Objection 1] without a Platforme.

We answer him, (yea he tells us himselfe, [Answ.] ) we had it from that patterne of wholsome words written in the Scriptures, Gods good spirit opening our eyes to see it: And some others also, (laying aside prejudice, and humbly setting themselves to waite on God for light) may come to see an exacter forme of Discipline then (it may be) hi∣ther to they have done.

But, why doe no other Churches in the world (saith he) besides your [Objection 2] selves see this way, but all oppose it?

Blessed be God, it is not so, many thousands doe see and follow it, [Answ.] so far are they from opposing it. And even England is comming neerer it by many steps of late then before; He that hath brought them from Episcopacy, Imposed Formes, and Popish Ceremonies &c. can carry them on further.

2. Most of such, as doe not walke in, but oppose our way, are they that either have not heard our grounds, or else have not impartially weighed them, and hence have received a prejudice against our practise.

3. To reveale light being a free act of the father of light, he may

choose what truths he will manifest, and when, and to whom, and in what measure he will dispence them, as Christ saith Mat. 25.11. Father I thanke thee thou hast revealed these things,—so it is Fa∣ther, because thy good will is so.

[Objection 3] But we tie our selves to a president, why not rather to a platforme?

[Answ.] 1. Let him consider well, if this be not a reproach injuriously cast upon us, whose indeavour is, and hath beene (as in the sight of God) not to follow mens, or Churches president further then wee see them following Christ: for though at first a president may be looked at, as a directorie into the right way, yet the practise may be grounded on the truth it selfe discerned, and not upon the president, according to Iohn 4.42. They were first led to Christ by the woman, yet after beleeved on him for his owne sake, and the truth they discerned to be in him.* 1.1

All our Churches (saith he) in New-England, & their members, doe cleare∣ly see the shining light of Discipline, by a cleare evidence of the way revealed to them, and yet do•• ti•• themselves to a president?

[Ans.] Is not here a contradiction? for, if we all have full cleare shining light,* 1.2 then wee neede no spectacles of a president; or if wee tie our selves to a president, it's because wee conceive wee have not full and cleare light of our owne.

[Objection 4] But we have had divisions amongst us.

[Ans.] 1. Those divisions were not caused by our Church Discipline, but by certaine vile opinions brought to us from England, (which I feare) is your own case this day, and yet no blame (you will say.)

2. Through rich mercy, they are long since subdued by the light and power of his truth: O that you could say the same of all the loose opinions here, (if the will of God were so) for which wee sigh daily to heaven on your behalfe, and dare not reproach you with it.

3. When these divisions did FALL, it was whiles our discipline STOOD, which shewes that our Discipline bred them not, but destroyed them rather.

[Objection 5] To the Margent on Article 3. If an imposed platforme by im∣perious power be unlawfull (in others) why doe wee so rigorrously presse others to our president?

[Answ.] To impose a thing (and that by an imperious power) which may possibly be erroneous in it self, or without evidence to others consci∣ences,

on whom it is pressed cannot bee lawfull: but for us to make the perfect word our patterne, then carefully informe others there∣in, and after i••formation leade them by it, is certainly much differing from the other, and farre from a slavish invitation by our selves, or ri∣g•••••• pressing of a president upon others, both which here he imputes very unjustly to us. As God hath kept us hitherto from such im∣perious rigour, so I hope, by his grace he will ever doe.

But wee forbeare giving of our priviledges to such as conform not to our [Objection 6] way.

1. If it were our way and not Christs, [Ans.] it were our great sinne and (in part) the same with the Prelates of late; but to forbeare giving priviledges to such as submit not to the rules of participation, is no rigou••, but such a thing as Christ himselfe would doe if in our places.

2. It is no more then all other societies in the world doe, who first require conformity before they permit to any the injoyment of their liberties.

3. Doe wee any more herein, then the Reverend Assembly them∣selves at this day, who would not willingly admit unto Church-im∣ployments and priviledges, any of a contrary judgement in point of Discipline? And yet, (I hope) you will not say, that either these or those exercise rigour.

But wee will not own such as sister Churches that differ from us (though [Objection 7] but in some things) in Church Discipline.

Doe not the Churches of England differ from us not onely in some things, but in many (as W. R. [Ans.] * 1.3 himselfe saith) and yet wee owne them as sister Churches, witnesse his owne quoted Authors, Dis∣course of Covenant, p. 36. at large. Mr. Cottons printed letter. All which affirme in effect, and some in words, that we blesse the wombes that bare us, and the paps that gave us suck: We intreate W. R. (in the spirit of meekenesse) to cleare himself from a slaunder in such a ge∣nerall accusation of his brethren.

Yet we more rigidly impose our patterne then any Churches ever did. [Objection 8]

How great an aspersion this is, I leave others to judge, [Answ.] and the Lord himselfe to convince him of: Why hath, there ever beene so much as any attempt amongst us, to suspend, excommunicate,* 1.4 de∣prive, banish, imprison any for dissenting from us in matters of di∣scipline, as of late in England, for non-conformity? Or to raise a bloody war for Bishops & a Service booke, as against our Brethren in Scot∣land? or to slander, falsifie Authors, render many godly Churches odious to the world, as W. R. himselfe hath done in this booke

(meerely) for difference from him in point of Church Govern∣ment? We have indeed, Civilly & Ecclesiastically, censured divers there amongst us, but it was for obstinacy in weighty points in Re∣ligion, sedition in the state, scandalous practises, as also manifest contempt of the Churches of Christ there, but not any for inconfor∣mity in Church Discipline.

Notes

• * 1.1

  Ob.
• * 1.2

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• * 1.3

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• * 1.4

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