Rome ruin'd by VVhite Hall, or, The papall crown demolisht

About this Item

Title
Rome ruin'd by VVhite Hall, or, The papall crown demolisht
Author
Spittlehouse, John.
Publication
Printed at London :: by Thomas Paine, and are to be sold at his house in Goold [sic] Smiths Alley in Redcrosse Street,
1650. [i.e. 1649]
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Subject terms
Presbyterianism
Great Britain -- Church history
Catholic Church -- Controversial literature
Church of England -- Government -- Early works to 1800.
Link to this Item
http://name.umdl.umich.edu/A93702.0001.001
Cite this Item
"Rome ruin'd by VVhite Hall, or, The papall crown demolisht." In the digital collection Early English Books Online 2. https://name.umdl.umich.edu/A93702.0001.001. University of Michigan Library Digital Collections. Accessed June 18, 2024.

Pages

CHAP. IX. Treateth how matters of controversie may be decided in the Church.
SECT. 1.

Objection. AS concerning matters of Judicature, certainly neither them words of our Saviour, Mat. 18. 17. viz. Tell it to the Church, cannot be meant of the promiscuous multitude, seeing that in many places, the number may be so great, as that it

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would be rediculous to acquaint so many, with every businesse, seeing the Church by that meanes would be continually imployed about trifles.

Ans. As touching the multitudes of Beleevers which you speake of, I have told you, that if the Brethren be so numerous, as that they cannot conveniently meet together in one place, that then they may divide into more, as there shall be occasion, so that they be all governed by one, and the same rule, with that from which they are divided; and being furnished with Pastors, and other Officers, may decide controversies amongst themselves, as if all in the City were met together about it; yea were there as many parts in that particular City, as there is such particulars in the Universall, yet if each of these particulars, be governed by the Universall rule, they are as compleat Churches, as the Uni∣versall, and may be termed a particular Church of a City, as all the Beleevers of that City may be termed a particular to the U∣niversall, or Catholick Church.

But put the case that twenty thousand Beleevers, were of one* 1.1 individuall Body, or Church, yet it is not of absolute necessity, that each of these particular members should meet together, up∣on every particular occasion, then it is for the members of each particular Church to meet together about a generall businesse of the Church.

For in such cases, it is with the Church, as with the Body pol∣litick, of the State, who in regard they cannot all meet together, to advise about the common good, therefore they divide into parts, each part electing two or more, to act for them, as their representatives, which we call Knights of Shires, as also in Townes Corporate.

Now in chusing of these Knights, it hath been the custome that every Free-holder of so much per annum, had a voyce in the election of such representatives, and yet was not every such Free∣holder bound of necessity, to make his appearance at such an election, but was at his owne choyse, to goe, or stay at home, and yet his, or their absence, did not retard the businesse; for if but any part of the Free-holders of the said County, or Counties did appeare, and make choyce of such representives, for their County, it was sufficient in Law; and the rest being lawfully

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summoned, and not making appearance, at the time, and place proposed, must be forced to subscribe, and so in the other.

SECT. 2.

Obj. But suppose there was no appearance made, upon such a Writ from the King?

Ans, Then were it in the power of the King, and his Privie Counsell to doe it themselves, and so the Common••••s would lose their priviledge.

The like instance may also be made in laying of a Tax, or Sesse∣ment for a Towne, &c. where all the inhabitants, ought to have publick notice given them, of the time, when, and place where, such a Tax is to be laid; yet is not every one, absolutely bound by this Summons, to appeare at the time, and place; but if he, or they doe not appeare, such as doe appeare, may lay the Tax, and the other not appearing, are bound to stand to the conclusi∣ons of them who did appeare, whether for them, or against them.

Obj. But if none make their appearance, what would follow?

Ans. Upon such neglects, the Pastor, and Church Officers, may doe it themselves, according to my former instance.

Obj. What would you inferre from hence?

Ans. That in any act of Judicature, (which may concerne the members of the Church) if the reall body thereof have publick notice of the time, and place, where a controversie (betwixt the* 1.2 members thereof, is to be decided, and most of them forbeare comming thereunto; that then the parties, which shall so come, al∣beit, inconsiderable to the other, may decide the controversie▪ and being so done, the re•••• are not to gain-say it.

Obj. But if none of them should appeare upon the Summons, what would follow?

Ans. Then the Pastor, and Church Officers, have power to doe it themselves, according to my former instances.

SECT. 3.

Obj. VVOuld you have every particular controversie so de∣cided, albeit of the smallest concernment?

Ans. That every particular businesse, should not be a trouble

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to the whole Congregation, or reall body of the Church, our* 1.3 Lord, and Saviour Jesus Christ, in his Divine wisdome, hath left two remedies, which as farre as I perceive, is not discerned by you Presbiterians; for otherwise, you would not think such bu∣sinesses, so impossible to be effected as you doe.

Obj. I wonder what remedies they be, I pray discover them?

Ans. You will wonder indeed when you heare of them, see∣ing they are as a paire of Spectacles, to discerne the truth, and easinesse of the method, which Christ left to regulate, and or∣der, the affaires of his Church Militant by, the which you so wilfully, or ignorantly oppose.

SECT. 4.

Obj. VVHere are those Spectacles you speake of, to be found in the Scripture, that I may put them on, to discerne the truth of the matter?

Ans. You may finde them, even before your nose, in the two verses, when you read the text, Mat. 18. 17. Tell it to the Church, &c. which sentence you so much wonder at, using it, as a meanes to amaze us, as the intricatenesse of the thing, as being impossi∣ble, that every triviall thing should be disputed on, by the reall body of the Church; when as the weight of every businesse, is* 1.4 taken off, before it come at the Church; for in case any diffe∣rence shall happen in the Church of Christ, which I hope wil be seldome, or never.

(Knowing that they be all members of one Body, Christ Jesus being the head;) as also in regard that the enemies of Christ and his Church, will take occasion thereby, to blaspheame, make∣ing it their chiefest joy to see the Professors of Christ at vari∣ence; in which respect I say, they ought to be very cautalous, either to give, or take, occasion of revenge, or offence, and that by the example of Abraham. Gen. 1. 7, 8, &c. who when his, and Lots Herdsmen fell at variene, desired, that no such thing should be amongst them, for said e, W be brethren; yea rather then he would continue a difference, though he were more po∣tent in every respect, he gave the cho••••e of the Country to Lot; which president, I hope will be imitated by our Brethren, in any difference betwixt party, and party; as also concerning any

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criminall offence, committed by any member of the Church, I hope our Brethren will take notice of the event which hapned by the sins of David, viz. his Murther, and Adultery, (by which he gave occasion to the Philistines, and other of the enemies of God to blaspheame,) and so avoyd all such occasions of evil; but in case such differences, and misdemeanours, should be made, and acted, by the members of Christ, which may happen, seeing by the former examples, that holy men, may be at difference, and also sinne in a high degree; yet as I said before, or Saviour in case of such difference, hath left these two remedies in the 15. and 16. verses of that 18th Chapter of Matthews Gospel, in these words.

SECT. 5.

IF thy brother trespasse against thee, tell him his fault, betwixt thee, and him alone, if he shall heare thee, then thou hast gained thy brother; but if he will not heare thee, then take with thee one, or two more, that in the mouth of two, or three witnesses every word may be established: And if he shall neglect to heae them ••••ll it to the Church; but if he shall neglect to heare the Church, let him be to thee, as an Heahen man, and a Pulican.

In which words of our Saviour, we may esily perceive, the method, and order, that he would have used, in such differences, as doth arise amongst the members of the Church, for otherwise, the Church is not to meddle with them, who are as Heathens, and Publicans, as may be gathered from them words of our Savi∣our formerly mentioned.

Then, least the reall Church, should be cumbred with every* 1.5 small businesse, the party offended, is injoyned by our Saviour, to goe to the party offending, or who hath offended him, as by occasion of trespasse, or otherwise, which is a thing I confesse quite contrary to flesh and blood, as is also the like expressions of our Saviour, viz. If thou bringest thy gift to the Altar, and re∣member that thy brother hath offended thee, leave thy gift at the Altar, and goe and reconcile thy selfe to thy brother; as also, in praying for our enemies, in blessing them that curse us, to turne the other side, to part not only with our coate, but cloake also; yet being the injunction of our Saviour, they must be observed,

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and so farre as any man is from yeelding obedience to them, so farre is he, from being a true Christian; these being the simp∣tomes to distinguish the Church of Christ from the world, and therefore our Saviour in such cases commandeth, to goe and tell him of his fault privately, or betwixt thee, and him alone.

SECT. 6.

AS if he should have said, The eyes of the Heathen, and Publi∣canes are set upon you, and would much rejoyce, to heare that you, who are brethren in professing my name, should differ. And therefore, in such a case, goe first by thy selfe, and doe it with all the privacy that may be, for feare of the scandall, which other∣wise may arise by the difference betwixt you, and when yee are so met, use all the wholsome perswation thou cust (according to the measure of the gift which is given thee) to incite, and stir up, to give thee satisfaction, and if thou canst perswade him thereunto, thou hast then gained thy brother; which shall be a glory unto thee, so that thou shalt shine, as the Starres in the firmament.

But if he yet remaine obstinate, and will not give thee some* 1.6 reasonable satisfaction for thy losse by him, then take with thee one or two more of thy neighbours, of which number, may be thy Pastor, or whom else thou shalt thinke meet. And in so doing, certainly they wil moderate the businesse betwixt you, (unlesse* 1.7 ye be both Hipocrites, so that no reason will perswade you) yea certainly, rather then you will make it any further trouble, one of you wil put up with some losse, (least it beget a scandall to the Church▪) but if it so be, that thou shewest thy selfe before thy neighbours, to be a reasonable man, rather to put up with losse, then to exact more then thy owne, and yet he will not recon∣cile himselfe, or give thee thy owne.

Then thou art of necessity, to put him to a greater shme and disgrace, being constrained to acquaint the Church with it, which after notice given, when so many of the members are met together, as shall please to come, thou shalt produce the Wit∣nesse, which thou tookest with thee, and they shall declare the truth and equity of thy cause unto them, as also the refractori∣nesse of the offender, or trespasser, which being so manifestly p∣parent,

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to such members of the Church, (by thy credable Wit∣nesses) it will be quickly decided.

But if he shall yet refuse to be so ordered by the Assembly then gathered together, as likely he will (having had all the faire motions that might be before) let him then be unto thee, as an Heathen man, and a Publican.

And thus have I set forth unto you, a representation, how our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, would have differences, decided in his Church Militant; which remedies (afore mentioned) considered, there will seldome, or never▪ any small, or triviall bu∣sinesse, trouble the Church, in regard the party offended, or in∣jured, is positively injoyned by our Saviour, to use the remedies aforesaid, which if he refuse to performe, he ought not to be re∣leeved by the Church.

SECT. 7.

Obj. BƲt if the Defondant refuse to be ordered by them members so gathered, in regard of the smalnesse of the quantity of them, in comparison of the reall body of that Church, may he not appeale to the reall body?

Ans. The Church having had publick notice of it, as also of the time, and place, when, and where, the difference is to be de∣cided, and not appearing, at the time, and place, doubtless those* 1.8 few, who doth appeare, ought to end the businesse, and being so determined, it ought not to trouble the Church any further; but I would have you know, that such causes, as come to such a triall, ought to have a deliberate hearing, both by Pastors, &c. for you may well imagine, the two remedies considered, there will seldome, or never, any triviall businesse trouble the reall Church.

Obj. Suppose the difference betwixt them be for title of Land, or the like; are such Churches able to decide such controversies,* 1.9 having no judgements in the Lawes of the Land, by which such dif∣ferences are to be tryed?

Ans. All Lawes are, or ought to be, grounded upon Scripture, and reason, and as to that of Scripture, I suppose none wil deny, but such as are of the Church, have the best judgement, in such things as are, or tend to a spirituall cognizance, to whom the

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Apostle writ, and therefore the best able, to decide such contro∣versies in Law, as doth arise, or hath bottome from them.

2. As to that of Reason, I suppose also none that hath reason will deny, but such as understand Scripture are Rationall Men, and therefore, have likewise judgement in such controversie in Law, as have bottome from them.

3. We see that no Judge doth of himselfe determine a case in Law, but it is done by a verdict passed by a Jewry of the Neigh∣borhood, &c. Then who more fit for such puposes then the Church, yet wee are ingaged as Christians, to admit of such decisions a∣mongst our selves; Instance the Apostle Paul in his first Epi∣stle to the Church at Corinth, who after hee had in the fifth Chapter shewed them from whence they were to seperate, viz. from the fornicators of this world, as also from the Covetous, Ex∣tortioners, Idolators, Raylers, Drunkards and ver. 10. As also of whom they had power to Judge, viz. of such as were within, vers. 12. As also of such as were not in their power, (but in the power of the Civil Magistrate) viz. Such as were without vers. 13. he doth continue his discourse in the beginning of the ninth chap. with a note of reprofe, viz.

Dare any of you, having a matter against another, goe to Law* 1.10 before the unjust, and not before the Saints? Doe ye not know, that the Saints shall judge the world, and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge Angels, how much more things that appertaine to this life? If then ye have judgement in things pertaining to this life, set them to judge, who are least esteemed in the Church; I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man amongst you, not one that shall be able to judge, betwixt his Brethren; but bro∣ther goeth to Law with Brother, and that before the unbeleevers; now therefore this is utterly a fault amongst you, &c. 1 Cor. 6. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, &c.

Obj. The Apostle in that Chapter doth only condemne them, for that they went to Law before such as were not Christians, and not otherwise.

Ans. He that is without the payle of the Church of Christ, is not to be termed a Christian, let him pretend what he will; and therefore the Church ought not to make use of

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them, in any such difference as doth arise amongst themselves.

SECT. 8.

Obj. Suppose none of the Magistrates of the Kingdome, will joyne with you in your Church Government, will you therefore e∣steeme them no Christians?

Ans. There is but one perfect rule of worship, and the rest* 1.11 are false, and therefore all that doe not practice that rule, are false worshippers, be it in part, or in whole, according to the measure of the degree, wherein they differ; yea so farre they may be termed Antichristians, for he that is not with Christ, (in that sence) is against him, and he that gathereth not with him, scattereth abroad; in which respects, they ought to be distin∣guished, from such as are conformable. Againe, it was, is, and ever will be, that a very few of the Gallantry of the world, were, are▪ or wil be followers of Christ, in his commands, which the Apostle Paul affirmeth, where he saith, Not many wise after the flesh, not many mighty, &c. are called; no doubtlesse, to be good and great, is very rare, few of the first magnitude of greanesse, are called, converted, or goe to Heaven, it falleth chiefly to their Lot, who are contemned, and dispised, of such proud ones; as Christ himselfe affirmeth, where he is said to thanke his Fa∣ther, that he had hid such things from the wise, and prudent, and had revealed them unto babes; aluding, to the learned Scribes and Pharisees, who out of their pride, malice, and disdaine, did contemne his glorious Gospel, and divine Messeng••••s, in regard, they were a company of poore Fisher-men, and some few other neglected underlings; What (say they) have any of the Rulers of the Pharisees beleeved on him? Alas no, they were so blinded with the opinion of their devout, and deeper Learning, so puft up, with the pride of their high places, so swolne with selfe-con∣ceitednesse of their owne forme, and false glosses, and so possest with prejudice of Christianity, that even the Publicans, and Har∣lots, goe to Heaven before them, viz. when they goe not.

And what lively Emblemes, them Scribes, and Pharises, (against* 1.12 whom for their pride, dissimulation, and cheating of the peo∣ple our Saviour pronounced eight woes,) were, of our Magi∣strates, Lawyers, and Ministers, in their now condition, I appeale

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to all Christians, and therefore all contentious people (who de∣sire to be freed from such corrupt men, and meanes,) are hereby invited to relinquish them, and to joyne themselves to that so∣ciety of Saints, who are congregated together, according to that rule, which Christ, and his Apostles prescribed, and are the nea∣rest representation of that Church, (in the primative purity,) which is now in the whole world; for otherwise, to expect re∣dresse of grievances, from such prties, in their now condition, is as much as to imagine that Grapes may be gathered of Thornes, or Figgs of Brambles; for a Black-a-Moore to be made white, or for Hell to become Heaven.

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