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Question. WHether do you conceive it to be a stubborn wilfulnesse, or a grosse ignorance that causeth them to retain so many Errors and Heresies?
Answ. I hold the cause to be the same (in the Pope, and the rest of his Hierarchy) as was in the aforesaid Ephesians, who because their Idol was of an ancient standing, and withall beneficiall▪ they therefore will set down
their staffe, with a desire that it might not be removed; and like as L••t (regarding more the firtility of the place, then the cor∣ruption of the people) contented himself to be in Sodeme: so those Popelings (I have named) finding (with Demetrious and* 1.1 his fellow crafts-men) much gaine to redound unto them by the use of it, are exceeding loath to have their Diana dispised, or brought to contempt; but in that the Lay-people retain that Idolatrous worship is meerly out of ignorance, and accustomed blindnesse, the Idol of the Masse being to them (as Diana was to the Ephesians, or Bell to the Babilonians, rather a cause of ex∣pence, then any way beneficiall.
Quest. Is there any hopes to reclaime them?
Answ. I hope the Lord hath many Dionissiousses, and Dama∣risses amongst them, with whom the truth will prevaile; yea, that many of their Epicurian and Stoicall opinionists will thereby be drawn to the knowledge of the truth, though in the attempt, I shall seeme unto them as one setting forth a new doctrine.
Q. Can you tax them as Paul did the Athenians, with an igno∣rant worshipping of an unknown God?
A. Yea, and as justly as Paul did them, witnesse their Idola∣trous worshipping of stocks and stones.
Q. VVHat doe you terme Idolatry?
A. Idolatry is when any Divine worship, either in∣ternall,* 1.2 or externall, is given to any Image, or Idol, set to re∣present God; of what kind or fashion soever it be.
Obj. There is a difference betwixt an Image and an Idol, for an Idol is a representation of a thing that is not, neither hath any being in the world, as if one should make the Image of a mans bo∣dy, with the head of a dogge, or a body with two faces, being such a shape as the eye hath not seen, but the minde imagined; but an Image is of such a thing as may be seen in the world.
Ans. The difference betwixt a graven Image, and a similitude* 1.3 is this, the graven Image is a picture proportioned and fashioned out of wood, stone, or metall, and so carved, or graven; and a
similitude is an Image, painted in plain Tables, therefore that distinction is vain.
Obj. Man is the Image of God, but it is lawfull to make the Image of the Image of God, ergo the Image of God.
Ans. Man is made the Image of God in his Soul, and not in his Body, which Image (the Apostle saith) consisteth in righte∣ousnesse and true holinesse, Eph. 4. 24. and therefore that in man, wherein he is like unto God, is spirituall, and invisible, and therefore cannot by a visible Image be deciphered.
Obj. They doe not worship the Image, but the thing represented by the Image.
Ans. That was the Gentiles pretence in maintaining their Idolatry, as also the Israelites, in making their golden Calfe,* 1.4 had relation unto God; for they proclaimed an holy day, Exod. 32. 5. yet their pretext excused them not; God there∣fore forbiddeth Idolatry under any pretence whatsoever, and if they doe not worship the Idol it selfe, why doe they give divers kinds of worship unto Images, as to the Image of Christ more▪ and to the Image of Saints lesse.
Obj. The honour of the signe, redoundeth to the thing signified.
Ans. If the signe be pleasing to him that is signified, but if it be such as he forbiddeth, and condemneth, it is rather a disho∣nour then an honour, and so the adoring of Images, is a dishonour to God.
Obj. The contumely and dishonour offered to the Image of God, is a dishonour to God himself; therefore the honour thereof redoun∣eth unto God.
Ans. If any man with a spightfull intention against Christ, doe deface his Image, or Picture, it is contumelious against Christ, because of the evill intention of the heart, but if any doe it out of a zealous minde against Idolatry and Superstition, it is no disho∣nour unto Christ, in which zeal (against Idolatry and Supersti∣tion) Epiphanius is said to have rent a certain cloth in a Church, which had on it the picture of Christ; in which sence also Con∣stantius, and Theodotius destroyed Images in every place, and therefore that Argument holdeth no better then the other.
Object. IMages may be tollerated in Churches, because they are an ornament unto it.
Ans. 1. Churches (as you terme them) are for the living I∣mages* 1.5 of God, and not for dead Images. 2. The adorning of Churches must not be otherwise then God hath appointed, and so to his dishonour, nor to the offence of the members of Christ. 3. As a man would not have his wife decked in Harlots apparell, so is it not fit such places should borrow ornaments for Idolaters.
Obj. Moses caused Ch••rubins to be made over the Arke, and a brazen Serpent to look upon, and Solomon made Images of Oxen in the Temple, for the brazen Laver to stand upon; ergo it is lawfull to have Images in such places now.
Ans. 1. These Images had Gods speciall command. 2. They were not in the view of the people which were in the Temple, or Tabernacle, but there where the High Priest had only accesse; neither were they set up aloft as Images are, to be worshipped, but only set forth the work of the Tabernacle, and Temple. 3. The brazen Serpent was used as a figure of Christ, which figures doe now cease the body being come, which is Christ, Col. 2. 17.
Obj. Images are Lay-mens Books, that they which cannot read, may learn by the History what was done.
Ans. This was the very reason which the Gentiles used in vin∣dication* 1.6 of their Idols, but if Images were a means to instruct the rude and ignorant, certainly God would have commanded it in the Old Testament, which he did not, but contrariwise strict∣ly forbiddeth it. And if they be for instruction, they must have an Interpreter, for they are dumbe of themselves, and an Inter∣preter can better instruct without them. Again▪ the Scriptures* 1.7 saith, that Images are teachers of lyes, Hab. 2. 18. and that Idols speak vanity, Za••. 10. 2. If they serve then for Lay-mens Books, they only teach them lies, and vanities. Again, Images set up in Churches to be gazed upon, doe draw the mindes of men from celestiall cogitations, and therefore according to the Prophet Da∣vids exhortation, we ought to turn our eyes from beholding vani∣ties (especially in such a place) all vain objects therefore ought
to be removed from peoples sight: and it is reported of the an∣cient* 1.8 Romans, that they would suffer no Images in their Chur∣ches, that the worship of God might be more pure, the sight of them therefore (in such publick places) are very dangerous, and that for these reasons, viz. 1. In regard that mens hearts being naturally corrupted, and prone to Idolatry, by such objects are nourished to error, and therefore when Hezekiah saw the brazen Serpent abused to Idolatry, brake it, 2 King. 18. 4. and thereby took away the cause of stumbling. 2. Those resemblan∣ces come so neare the nature of things living, and so doth the more easily deceive.
Obj. The Image of Christ may be made as he was man.
Ans. The Picture of Christ ought not to be made at all, for in* 1.9 regard Christ is both God, and Man, therefore▪ all such Images as are made of Christ must needs be lying Images, in respect they cannot expresse his God-head.
Obj. THe Image of God may be made, because God was sometimes seen in corporall shape, Exod. 33. 22.
Ans. It followeth not because God by his authority could* 1.10 make a representation of himself, that man therefore of his owne authority can doe it without Gods warrant. 2. That Vision was shewed to Moses alone, and in a secret place, but their are set up in the publick view of all, and in publick places. 3. It was an Image passing, and not continuing, but theirs are permanent. 4. That were of his back parts, but they are bold to picture the glorious countenance of God, which is most rediculous, seeing the Apostle saith, No man hath seen God at any time, Joh. 1. 18.
Obj. The Scriptures testifieth, that God spake to Moses face to face, Exod. 33. 11.
Ans. It is not possible in this life to see God with the eyes of the body, for if so, it must needs follow that God must be of a corporall and substantiall substance, (if he might be seen with carnall eyes) for nothing by the eyes of flesh can be discerned, but that which is visible, finite, and sircumscriptable, but the Lord is infinite: Ergo,
2. God being of a spirituall nature, cannot be seen by the* 1.11 eyes of the body, for that which is of a spirituall nature, doth not come under the sence of the body.
3. It is said, that God is Love, 2 Epist. joh. ver. 8. which shew∣eth his substance, not a quallity, (as our love is) so then as faith, hope, and love in us cannot be seen, much lesse can God.
4. The Image of God in man (which is the inward renovati∣on of the minde) cannot be seen, much lesse God himself whose Image we are.
5. The minde of man is invisible, much more that most pure and infinite minde.
6. God is of a simple nature, without any composition, he hath no forme, or figure; but nothing is perceived of the sence, but that which is of a mixt, and compound nature, that hath forme, and fashion.
7. The Divine Nature is infinite, and not to be confined, or li∣mited; and that which cannot be limited, cannot be comprehen∣ded, for that which containeth is greater then that which is con∣tained, and it is also Heterogen••ae naturae, of another nature: as the Fish is contained in the water, and the Birds in the ayre, but nothing is greater then God, and he being perfectly good, that which should confine him being of a divers kinde must be per∣fectly evill: and so it would follow, Deus vinci a malo, that God should be overcome of evill.
8. Whereas divers of the Saints have been said to see God af∣ter a divers sort, if they had seen the substance of God, then it would follow, that God is of a divers nature and substance; for he was diversly seen of Ezekiel, and Isaias, Ezek. 1. 26. Esai. 6. 1. &c. intimating thereby, that God can no otherwise be seen of us, then in Christ his Son, who is the very graven forme of his person, Heb. 1. 3. and if Christ would not grant any such carnall vision of God unto his Disciples, (who were convenant with him in the Flesh,) who can in this life expect it?
9. Whereas the Prophet Esay saith, I saw the Lord sitting up∣on a high throne, and is also said to have been seen of others of the Saints; we must not think that they saw Gods substance with their carnall eyes, but as mens nature could apprehend him; not as he is, but as it pleased him to reveale himself unto them:
for no created understanding can come neere unto God; the un∣derstanding may come neere the nature of another, but it is im∣possible that the intellectuall part should comprehend God, see∣ing he is infinite to be known; but the power of the understan∣ding, or intelligence created is finite, how then can that which is finite comprehend that which is infinite; yea even the under∣standing of Christ (that is, as he was man) did not comprehend God▪ The Apostle saith, he dwelleth in that light which none can attain unto, 1 Tim. 6. 16. the reason is, because no power can doe any thing in that which is higher then the object, but God is higher then the object of our understanding, Ergo:
Again, a thing is said to be invisible two wayes, 1. In regard of the defect in it selfe, as darknesse and shadowed places. 2. Because of the excellency thereof, as the Sun is to our eye: and so God is invisible.
Obj. IT is said,, Exod. 24. 9, 10. that Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the seventy of the Elders of Israel saw the God of Israel, &c. as also Deut. 34. 10. where it is said concerning Moses, that the Lord knew him face to face, viz. as men may know one another by their countenance.
Ans. They saw God not in his divine Essence, and substance,* 1.12 which is invisible and incomprehensible, but they saw some evi∣dent signes of his glorious presence and Majesty, for otherwise the glorified Saints shall not comprehend and see God in his Es∣sence, they may have certain representations, but according to the shew of his nature they cannot. 'Tis true, the faithfull in this life have a certain sight of God, as our Saviour saith, Mat. 5. 8. Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God: and they shall see him more fully in the next life, for the Apostle saith, We know that when we shall appeare we shall be like unto him, for we shall see him as he is, 1 Joh. 3. 2. but yet this saying must be un∣derstood with three conditions.
1. That not only the Divinity of the Father, but neither of the Sonne, or Holy Ghost can the eyes of the body see, but of the minde, for God is altogether invisible, Col. 1. 15. 1 Tim. 1. 17.
Heb. 11. 27. which sight the Apostle saith, no man ever saw, or can see: So then, if it appertain to the nature of God to be invi∣sible, as to be incorruptible, that nature shall not be changed in the next world, viz. of invisible, to become visible, because he cannot of incorruptible become corruptible; we ought not there∣fore to distinguish these things which the Apostle hath joyned together, as to say to him that is incorruptible for ever in this, and the next; but invisible not in the next world, but only in this.
The fulnesse therefore of God cannot be comprehended in seeing, unlesse the Seer so see, that no part can be hid from him; but God cannot be seen, if any thing in the God-head be hid from us, which must needs be in regard of his infinitenesse: so that Moses, and the other Prophets mentioned, did not see God (as to take his effigies) he being incomprehensible; the Picture therefore of God the Father, which the Papists make (like an old man, which they gather from Daniels vision of God, Dan. 7. 9.) or of any other Person in the Trinity is rediculous.
Object. SO that Images be not adored, they may be used for mat∣ter of beautifying, and adorning of Churches.
Ans. It is a dishonour to God to have such places (set apart for his worship) stuffed with Monuments of Idolatry, such things as draweth the minde of man from a Divine worship; and it is evident, Exod. 34. 15. that the Lord would have the occasion of* 1.13 stumbling removed, and Images to be defaced, lest the people might be corrupted by them, and therefore he simply comman∣deth to break down their Images, Deut. 7. 5. and that because they were an holy people to God. As if he should have said, you Israelites are a people prone to Idolatry, and therefore I charge you ••o pull them down. The Apostle also reviveth the same pre∣cept, 1 Joh. 5. 21. where he saith, Babes, keep your selves from Idols; shewing that now under the Gospel there is danger to be feared from Images, and Idols.
Obj. The Commandement for abolishing and destroying of Ima∣ges was ceremoniall▪ and therefore concerneth not christians n••w.
Ans. To take away all occasion of Idolatry is not ceremoniall, because it tendeth to the maintenance of a Morall Comman∣dement.
Obj. A thing must not be taken away for the abuse.
Ans. If the thing be good in it selfe, and necessary, it ought not to be taken away for the abuse; but the case is divers where both the thing, and the abuse are unlawfull.
Object. IT is sufficient that the people be taught and admonished, that Idols and Images are not to be worshipped, and not to be taken away.
Ans. The Apostle exhorteth us to abstaine from all appearances* 1.14 of evill, 1 Pet. 3. 22. and the surest way is to remove from the sight, the occasion of stumbling, and therefore Moses did not on∣ly restraine the people from worshipping the abominable Idol, but he defaced it, and took it away; which practice and example of Moses condemneth the Luthreans, who allow not the worship∣ing of Images, and yet will tollerate them in their publick places of meeting; for it appeares that Moses could not indure the very sight of that Idol: which president may teach us, not only to be ware of worshipping them, but also of the offence that may hap∣pen by the very sight of them. The example of Hezekiah is also very pertinent to this purpose, who brake in pieces the brazen Serpent, 2 King. 18. 4. moreover, whatsoever it is in religious worship which hath not the testimony of the Word for its ap∣provement, may without controversie be reputed for a device of man, and so consequently rejected; for the true worship of God* 1.15 must be spirituall, answering to his nature, as our Saviour saith, Joh. 4. 24. God is a Spirit, and such as worship him, must worship him in spirit and truth; which worship cannot be performed by the naturall, or artificiall abilities of men, in regard it is wrapt up in the mystery of the Word, to which it is not lawfull to adde or detract any thing, Deut. 4. 2. & 12. 32. Rev. 22. 18, 19. but to be directly agreeable to that patterne, and therefore the Lord com∣manded Moses to make the forme of the Tabernacle agreeable in every thing, to that which he had shewed in the Mount, Exod. 25. 9.
Again, it is the true devotions, and affections of the heart, which God only looketh upon in his worship; as in Prov. 23. 26. My sonne, give me thy heart: As also in the very words of the Prophet David, where he saith, My heart is fixed, O God, my heart is fixed, I will sing and give praise, and not to make an I∣mage of God; for, to whom will ye liken me, saith the Lord, or to whom will ye compare me, Isai. 40. 18. Such therefore erre excee∣dingly, who not only tollerate Images, and set them up in their Churches, but also maintaine and defend the adoring of them, yea, and that they are to be adored with the same adoration with the thing it representeth, which is both blasphemous, and also a robbing of God of his honour, who saith, I am Jehovah, and my name, and my glory will I not give to another; Isa. 42. 8. as also, Cursed be the man that shall make any molten or carved Images, an abomination to the Lord, and shall put it in a secret place, Deut. 27. 15. I will only adde that of the Prophet David to cleare this discourse, they that make them are like unto them, &c. Psal. 133. 13.
••••i••e and co∣ve••o••snesse the chief sup∣p••rters of Popery.
What Idolatry ••••.
The difference betwixt an Image and a Similitude.
Psal. 81. 11. 12 Rom. 1. 23, 24 1 Sam. 7. 3, 4, 5
Deut. 16 22. Against Ima∣ges in Chur∣ches.
Papists use the Gentiles plea, &c.
Images and Idols teachers of lyes.
The danger of Images and Idols in pub∣lick places.
The Image of Christ a lying Image.
Moses could not see Gods effiges.
God cannot be seen with corporall eyes.
The glorified Saints shall not behold God in his essence.
The occasion of evill ought to be removed.
We are to ab∣staine from all appearance of evill.
How God will be worshipped.